Breaking News!! Novitzky Mvp!

[Malcontent]

On Espn site now. Didnt link cuz it said more news later. Damn...Nash got Fugged. Dirk is somewhat deserved, but how can anyone argue against Nash!

[RhymesayersDU]

It's a regular season award, and he definitely deserved it.

Too bad they won't be able to have a ceremony before a playoff game.

[theAPAOps5]

Wasted all his MVP up in the regular season. Needs to save some MVP for the playoffs. I wonder if this will draw llama out of his NBA sebatical?

[maven]

On Espn site now. Didnt link cuz it said more news later. Damn...Nash got Fugged. Dirk is somewhat deserved, but how can anyone argue against Nash!

Nash won 2 in a row. Dirk, well he's good when it doesn't count so he deserves the award.

[watermock]

If he shows up in the post season, he will prove he deserves it.

[Los Broncos]

This is hard to believe.

[ZONA]

You honestly believe they were going to give a 6'1" white guy who can't jump 3 MVP's in a row. I don't think so. Nash is clearly the MVP to me.

[azbroncfan]

You honestly believe they were going to give a 6'1" white guy who can't jump 3 MVP's in a row. I don't think so. Nash is clearly the MVP to me.

DIRK should of got it last year and Nash this year so it all works out the same.

[Killericon]

What a crock of ****.

[Malcontent]

Well..at least 2 PHX Suns players got in the all NBA 1st team! Now can they stop Duncan and the rest of the flopfest that is the Spurs?

[ludo21]

Congrats to Dirk!!

Nash had better numbers this year, but Dirk was the best player on the best team, so I guess that counts for something.

Go Suns!! Beat the Spurs on Sat!!!

[CBF1]

What a waste of an award

[freak6]

Hooray for Dirk.

DOH!!!!!

[epicSocialism4tw]

It's a regular season award, and he definitely deserved it.

Too bad they won't be able to have a ceremony before a playoff game.

My thoughts exactly.

[theAPAOps5]

My thoughts exactly.

HE HAS RETURNED TO AN NBA THREAD! :) ;D

[-Slap-]

Welcome back, Wandering Yak.......:)

[-Slap-]

Its tough to be a fan. Of the four losses on Tommy Hearns record, only the one to Hagler doesn't gnaw at me on some level. Wait, he entered the ring for that fight with Jheri Curls, so its actually a clean sweep.

[TheChamp24]

Wow, congrats to Mr. MVP and his clutch 2-13 performance in the crucial and deciding game of a playoff series! We salute you, Mr. Dirk Nowitzki!

And wow llama, nice to see you again. What were you saying about Dirk again and the Mavs?

Complete joke IMO, if they have a ceremony in any Western conference place he will probably get joked and maybe boo'd. If its in Phoenix, look out.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Its tough to be a fan. Of the four losses on Tommy Hearns record, only the one to Hagler doesn't gnaw at me on some level. Wait, he entered the ring for that fight with Jheri Curls, so its actually a clean sweep.

Elway was pretty gut wrenching to stand behind for for a looong time. We were so close for soooo long, and then when it mattered, in the superbowl, BOOM! (to quote Madden). The whole thing came crashing down and Elway had some less-than-Elway performances that didnt really help things. He drove the team down for "the Drive" and then didnt show up in the big game. He led the Broncos to the most embarrasing defeat in SB history when the Broncos rolled over for Montana and the 49ers. Doug Stinkin Smith and the Redskins made Elway look second rate in the Superbowl.

To me, it was all worth it to wear my Broncos gear and to get ridiculed by all of the Cowboys fans that I am friends with here because I was a Broncos fan, and I understood reasons to be hopeful. It is no different with Nowitzki and the Mavs. When Elway, TD, and the rest of that golden era Broncos squad rolled the NFL on their way to back-to-back SB wins, it was only icing on the top, and a great gift of the franchise to the fans.

Nowitzki has been the best thing ever to happen to the Dallas franchise. He has overcome more difficulty than most in his ascenscion to the top. I am confident that he will continue to perform in the 98th percentile of NBA players, and I am confident that the Mavs will be back again next season. Whenever Nowitzki gets his TD, Sharpe, and OL, I am sure that he will have another opportunity to win the whole thing.

[TheChamp24]

Elway was pretty gut wrenching to stand behind for for a looong time. We were so close for soooo long, and then when it mattered, in the superbowl, BOOM! (to quote Madden). The whole thing came crashing down and Elway had some less-than-Elway performances that didnt really help things. He drove the team down for "the Drive" and then didnt show up in the big game. He led the Broncos to the most embarrasing defeat in SB history when the Broncos rolled over for Montana and the 49ers. Doug Stinkin Smith and the Redskins made Elway look second rate in the Superbowl.

To me, it was all worth it to wear my Broncos gear and to get ridiculed by all of the Cowboys fans that I am friends with here because I was a Broncos fan, and I understood reasons to be hopeful. It is no different with Nowitzki and the Mavs. When Elway, TD, and the rest of that golden era Broncos squad rolled the NFL on their way to back-to-back SB wins, it was only icing on the top, and a great gift of the franchise to the fans.

Nowitzki has been the best thing ever to happen to the Dallas franchise. He has overcome more difficulty than most in his ascenscion to the top. I am confident that he will continue to perform in the 98th percentile of NBA players, and I am confident that the Mavs will be back again next season. Whenever Nowitzki gets his TD, Sharpe, and OL, I am sure that he will have another opportunity to win the whole thing.

Too bad he already had his TD, Sharpe and OL in Steve Nash and Michael Finley.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Too bad he already had his TD, Sharpe and OL in Steve Nash and Michael Finley.

No. Those guys wouldnt have won the whole thing. Nash didnt take the game as seriously then as he does now. He was lambasted in Dallas as being the reason that the Mavs would never beat the Spurs and reach the finals. Nash had a game here where he scored something like 1 or 2 points in a critical playoff game and had a bunch of turnovers while the opposing PG lit him up like a lightbulb. Nash was renkowned for getting torched by Bibby, Parker, DAMON STOUDEMIRE!, Steve Francis (ugh), etc, etc. He was the team's weak link on defense...a veritable turnstyle, and he also disappeared every season when the playoffs rolled around. It was a regular joke here. Everyone loved him still, but you knew what you were getting.

If you put todays Nash with Dirk, yeah...that's a tough duo. I think that they win the thing. Fin's a different story. If he would ever take the ball to the rim, he might have been a regular all-star.

I think that Dallas might do something big this summer. I wouldnt be surprised to see Jason Kidd, Garnett, or Paul Pierce in Dallas. The MBT know that they need someone who can keep the opposition from putting three guards on Dirk at all times. I think that Dallas will get another superstar this summer.

[Pendejo]

Elway was pretty gut wrenching to stand behind for for a looong time. We were so close for soooo long, and then when it mattered, in the superbowl, BOOM! (to quote Madden) 1. The whole thing came crashing down and Elway had some less-than-Elway performances that didnt really help things. He drove the team down for "the Drive" and then didnt show up in the big game.2 He led the Broncos to the most embarrasing defeat in SB history when the Broncos rolled over for Montana and the 49ers.3 Doug Stinkin Smith and the Redskins made Elway look second rate in the Superbowl.4


Seriously...how old are you?

1.) If you're going to quote Madden you might as well be honest, and use at the very least Madden's summation of John Elway. To wit: (paraphrased) "John Elway was the closest thing to a one man gang I've seen in the NFL."

2.) I'm sure Rich Karlis doinking field goals while the Donks had the momentum conveniently escaped your memory.

3.) Elway rolled over for the 49'ers? They were simply stomped by one of the greatest teams in NFL history. Arguably the best.

4.) Who is Doug Smith? And did Elway give up 35 points in a quarter after staking his team to a lead?

Are you honestly comfortable comparing a guy who has been to one final in his 9 year career to a guy who had already been to three in the same time frame? Do you think that Nowitzki is a top 5 player all time in his sport like the player you tried to compare him to?

You can't be that stupid. Can you?

[Clockwork Orange]

Fin's a different story. If he would ever take the ball to the rim, he might have been a regular all-star.

Most seem to believe that if Dirk did that against Golden State, the Mavs would still be playing right now.

I do know how you feel (sort of*). Peter Forsberg is my favorite hockey player and I badly wanted him to win the Hart Trophy as league MVP for many years, but he was never healthy enough through a full season to warrant the award. Finally, in the 2002-03 season, he managed to stay in the lineup for most of the season, won the scoring title and the MVP......and the Avs were eliminated in round 1 of the playoffs. As nice as it was that he finally achieved these accolades, it didn't mean a whole hell of a lot because he and his teammates were on the golf course far earlier than they should have been.

That whole episode really showed me how small individual honors are when compared to team success.

*Forsberg and the Avs had won championships in 1995-96 & 2000-01, hence the "sort of" proviso.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Seriously...how old are you?
1.) If you're going to quote Madden you might as well be honest, and use at the very least Madden's summation of John Elway. To wit: (paraphrased) "John Elway was the closest thing to a one man gang I've seen in the NFL."
2.) I'm sure Rich Karlis doinking field goals while the Donks had the momentum conveniently escaped your memory.
3.) Elway rolled over for the 49'ers? They were simply stomped by one of the greatest teams in NFL history. Arguably the best.
4.) Who is Doug Smith? And did Elway give up 35 points in a quarter after staking his team to a lead?
Are you honestly comfortable comparing a guy who has been to one final in his 9 year career to a guy who had already been to three in the same time frame? Do you think that Nowitzki is a top 5 player all time in his sport like the player you tried to compare him to?
You can't be that stupid. Can you?

Wow. I didnt know that the point could have gone so cleanly over someone's head without leaving any trace of understanding whatsoever. You have proved me wrong once again. Bravo!

(I meant Doug Williams by the way)

[epicSocialism4tw]

*Forsberg and the Avs had won championships in 1995-96 & 2000-01, hence the "sort of" proviso.

Well, there's still hope.:thumbsup:

I think that Dirk was just flat worn out. He had a long 2005-2006 season and capped it with a summer tour with the German nationals. I believe that he only had something like 3 weeks off all summer. He looked ragged running up and down the floor.

[Clockwork Orange]

Well, there's still hope.:thumbsup:

I think that Dirk was just flat worn out. He had a long 2005-2006 season and capped it with a summer tour with the German nationals. I believe that he only had something like 3 weeks off all summer. He looked ragged running up and down the floor.

Don Nelson and the Warriors had a little something to do with that as well.

Credit where credit is due.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Don Nelson and the Warriors had a little something to do with that as well.

Credit where credit is due.


Sure. Nellie knew the Mavs inside and out. Still it didnt look like Dirk had the energy to get it done. Nellie dressed he and that entire team down. I have come to question Avery's smarts as a strategist, because Nellie had his way with him.

[Pendejo]

Wow. I didnt know that the point could have gone so cleanly over someone's head without leaving any trace of understanding whatsoever. You have proved me wrong once again. Bravo!

(I meant Doug Williams by the way)

What was your point then peckerhead?

You said watching John Elway was gut wrenching. You said that he led the team on "the drive" and then didn't show up for the big game. A game in which he went 22/37 for 304 yards. One touch down, and a pick. He also ran for a td while leading the team in rushing that game.

You're comparing a guy who gave up on his team in a playoff series to an all time great. If I missed your point...it was so highly wrapped up in your own esoteric half assed reasoning that only a sanctamonious blow hard such as yourself could possibly get it.

You babbling jackass.

[TheChamp24]

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=56126

So, is Dirk still "chasing Jordan" llama? The great and powerful Dirk Nowitzki can't get a team that won 67 games out of the 1st round?

And exactly how are the Mavs going to add someone in the offseason? By trading for one of those stars? Just exactly who might they be trading? Devin Harris? Yippee...

[Northman]

What was your point then peckerhead?

You said watching John Elway was gut wrenching. You said that he led the team on "the drive" and then didn't show up for the big game. A game in which he went 22/37 for 304 yards. One touch down, and a pick. He also ran for a td while leading the team in rushing that game.

You're comparing a guy who gave up on his team in a playoff series to an all time great. If I missed your point...it was so highly wrapped up in your own esoteric half assed reasoning that only a sanctamonious blow hard such as yourself could possibly get it.

You babbling jackass.


Exactly. Ha!

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Elway was pretty gut wrenching to stand behind for for a looong time. We were so close for soooo long, and then when it mattered, in the superbowl, BOOM! (to quote Madden). The whole thing came crashing down and Elway had some less-than-Elway performances that didnt really help things. He drove the team down for "the Drive" and then didnt show up in the big game. He led the Broncos to the most embarrasing defeat in SB history when the Broncos rolled over for Montana and the 49ers. Doug Stinkin Smith and the Redskins made Elway look second rate in the Superbowl.



You are a fricking joke! Only soccer moms (and then only one or two) would ever compare John Elway to some chokejob NBA player in Dallas.

[gunns]

Elway was pretty gut wrenching to stand behind for for a looong time. We were so close for soooo long, and then when it mattered, in the superbowl, BOOM! (to quote Madden). The whole thing came crashing down and Elway had some less-than-Elway performances that didnt really help things. He drove the team down for "the Drive" and then didnt show up in the big game. He led the Broncos to the most embarrasing defeat in SB history when the Broncos rolled over for Montana and the 49ers. Doug Stinkin Smith and the Redskins made Elway look second rate in the Superbowl.

To me, it was all worth it to wear my Broncos gear and to get ridiculed by all of the Cowboys fans that I am friends with here because I was a Broncos fan, and I understood reasons to be hopeful. It is no different with Nowitzki and the Mavs. When Elway, TD, and the rest of that golden era Broncos squad rolled the NFL on their way to back-to-back SB wins, it was only icing on the top, and a great gift of the franchise to the fans.

Nowitzki has been the best thing ever to happen to the Dallas franchise. He has overcome more difficulty than most in his ascenscion to the top. I am confident that he will continue to perform in the 98th percentile of NBA players, and I am confident that the Mavs will be back again next season. Whenever Nowitzki gets his TD, Sharpe, and OL, I am sure that he will have another opportunity to win the whole thing.

After much struggle to figure out how you could, in anyway, compare Nowitzki's performance to Elway's I think what you were trying to say was that you will continue to support Dirk because he'll get his someday. I think. :kiddingme

But to state it the way you did, no wonder you got back lash. I never found it gut wrenching to watch Elway, I did though find it gut wrenching to watch the team around him. In the NBA a player can win it all, not in football...yet Madden said:

1.) If you're going to quote Madden you might as well be honest, and use at the very least Madden's summation of John Elway. To wit: (paraphrased) "John Elway was the closest thing to a one man gang I've seen in the NFL."

In other words, Nowitzki isn't even in the same league as Elway and I'm not talking the sports league they play in. Poor analogy to try and make your point.

[-Slap-]

See, I thought maybe Llama waited all this time to talk because he was didn't want to let his emotions get the better of him and say something stupid. I realize now no passage of time was going to allow that to happen. The Jerry West and Michael Jordan comparisons did nothing but explode in his face, so now he decides his boy is really another John Elway. Those who refuse to learn from their mistakes are condemned to repeat them.

[Atlas]

he is the best regular season player in the NBA

[Jens1893]

Congrats, Dirk. Well deserved.

[theAPAOps5]

If he had used Jim Kelly with the Bills it would have been better but still. :angel:

[Steve Sewell]

Its tough to be a fan. Of the four losses on Tommy Hearns record, only the one to Hagler doesn't gnaw at me on some level. Wait, he entered the ring for that fight with Jheri Curls, so its actually a clean sweep.

Rep for spelling Jheri Curls correctly.

[Nuggets4]

Rep for spelling Jheri Curls correctly.

Rep for noticing that he spelled Jheri Curls correctly.

[theAPAOps5]

Rep for noticing that he spelled Jheri Curls correctly.

Rep for noticing that he noticed spelling Jheri Curls correctly. :thanku:

[Maximus]

It just shows that the voting for mvp is bogus. It's a regular season award so the player that carries his team the best and the most needed should win. I think that it is safe to say that Kobe Bryant was the regular season MVP.... Forget the hype take Kobe off of the Lakers and they would finish one of the worst teams in the league!

[azbroncfan]

Well, there's still hope.:thumbsup:

I think that Dirk was just flat worn out. He had a long 2005-2006 season and capped it with a summer tour with the German nationals. I believe that he only had something like 3 weeks off all summer. He looked ragged running up and down the floor.


Dirk is just a typical soft european player with a good outside game and not much else. OVERRATED.

[Inkana7]

Lebron > Dirk.

[texpat]

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=56126

So, is Dirk still "chasing Jordan" llama? The great and powerful Dirk Nowitzki can't get a team that won 67 games out of the 1st round?

And exactly how are the Mavs going to add someone in the offseason? By trading for one of those stars? Just exactly who might they be trading? Devin Harris? Yippee...

So, you agree, The Mavs don't have anybody on the team of any value to trade,,,,,,,,,,,

So, then I guess you would have to agree that Dirk had to be a MVP (for the regular season) in order to lead a team to 67 wins!

[Northman]

It just shows that the voting for mvp is bogus. It's a regular season award so the player that carries his team the best and the most needed should win. I think that it is safe to say that Kobe Bryant was the regular season MVP.... Forget the hype take Kobe off of the Lakers and they would finish one of the worst teams in the league!


Absolutely agree with you.......for once. Ha!

[TheChamp24]

So, you agree, The Mavs don't have anybody on the team of any value to trade,,,,,,,,,,,

So, then I guess you would have to agree that Dirk had to be a MVP (for the regular season) in order to lead a team to 67 wins!

Way to spin things around there.
Well, I was assuming they wouldn't want to trade Josh Howard and Terry. Other guys don't have much trade value, like Stackhouse, Dampier, Diop, Buckner. Those guys are solid players, just not enough to get a guy like Garnett. I was referring to lack of trade value to get a superstar player.
Dirk isn't the only reason the Mavs won 67 games, Josh Howard might've been just as big of an influence to the team as Dirk was. And no, Dirk didn't had to be named the MVP because he was the leader of the 67 win Mavs. I never understood that thinking that the MVP had to be from one of the best teams in the league. I mean, heck, Kobe is the ONLY reason the Lakers were in the playoffs. How much can 1 man carry a team there?

[theAPAOps5]

Take all NBA teams and look at who was their MVP. Who do you think was the better MVP, it wan't Dirk I can tell you that. Take Dirk out and they still would have won quite a few games. Take people like Kobe, Arenas, even Baron Davis and their teams were done.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I have enough trouble living in a world where Steve Nash has won 2 MVPs and Shaq has only won 1. If Nash had one another, i might have to move to Mars.

Dirk deserved it this year. Why does everyone forget that Nash plays with Stoudemire and Marion

[Clockwork Orange]

Dirk deserved it this year. Why does everyone forget that Nash plays with Stoudemire and Marion

No one forgets it, but you've got it backwards. Stoudemire & Marion play with Nash. He makes them better players, not the other way around. Hell, he made Boris Diaw look like an All-Star last season. Nash deserved both of his MVP trophies.

Oh, and as for Shaq, maybe if he'd had his fat ass in shape more often for the regular season he'd have another MVP trophy or two on his mantle.

[Northman]

I have enough trouble living in a world where Steve Nash has won 2 MVPs and Shaq has only won 1. If Nash had one another, i might have to move to Mars.

Dirk deserved it this year. Why does everyone forget that Nash plays with Stoudemire and Marion

Why does everyone forget that when Nash won those Stoudemire and Marion were battling injuries.

[Northman]

No one forgets it, but you've got it backwards. Stoudemire & Marion play with Nash. He makes them better players, not the other way around. Hell, he made Boris Diaw look like an All-Star last season. Nash deserved both of his MVP trophies.

Oh, and as for Shaq, maybe if he'd had his fat ass in shape more often for the regular season he'd have another MVP trophy or two on his mantle.


Not only that but how ****ing hard is it when your the biggest man in the NBA to turn around and Slam a basketball? Ha!

Guys like Duncan and Hakeem are/were ten times the big men that Snak is.

[Kaylore]

Elway made it to the Super Bowl. His best game was in the AFC Championship game to go. Noworstski didn't do anything when it counted.

[Inkana7]

No one forgets it, but you've got it backwards. Stoudemire & Marion play with Nash. He makes them better players, not the other way around. Hell, he made Boris Diaw look like an All-Star last season. Nash deserved both of his MVP trophies.

Oh, and as for Shaq, maybe if he'd had his fat ass in shape more often for the regular season he'd have another MVP trophy or two on his mantle.

Stoudemire the 1st Team All-NBAer?

[Clockwork Orange]

Stoudemire the 1st Team All-NBAer?

The Suns went to the Conference Finals with him in '05 and then again without him in '06. Reason? The other 1st team All-NBAer, the league MVP both of those years, Steve Nash.

Ask yourself this, how far do they go if they lose Nash for a season?

Amare's a teriffic player, but Nash makes him even better.

[Jens1893]

Take all NBA teams and look at who was their MVP. Who do you think was the better MVP, it wan't Dirk I can tell you that. Take Dirk out and they still would have won quite a few games. Take people like Kobe, Arenas, even Baron Davis and their teams were done.

The MVP trophy has been a "best player" award in every sport for a good while now ... if you gave the NFL Most Valuable Player Trophy to the player most valuable to his team, a QB would win every year.

[theAPAOps5]

Not only that but how ****ing hard is it when your the biggest man in the NBA to turn around and Slam a basketball? Ha!

Guys like Duncan and Hakeem are/were ten times the big men that Snak is.

Thank you make a ****ing free throw and stop talking about yourself in 3rd person and then we can talk MVP again.

[theAPAOps5]

The MVP trophy has been a "best player" award in every sport for a good while now ... if you gave the NFL Most Valuable Player Trophy to the player most valuable to his team, a QB would win every year.

Not necessarily teams like Chicago or even Denver last year would have players other than the QB getting the award.

[Inkana7]

The Suns went to the Conference Finals with him in '05 and then again without him in '06. Reason? The other 1st team All-NBAer, the league MVP both of those years, Steve Nash.

Ask yourself this, how far do they go if they lose Nash for a season?

Amare's a teriffic player, but Nash makes him even better.

But the thing is, Nash has that teriffic player. Where's Lebron's teriffic player? Kobe's? If making your team much, much better by yourself is what the MVP award is about, then Kobe should have won it the past two seasons, with Lebron or Arenas a close second, although Arenas has two good players behind him, something Kobe and Lebron don't have.

[ro_50]

Well..at least 2 PHX Suns players got in the all NBA 1st team! Now can they stop Duncan and the rest of the flopfest that is the Spurs?


I would in the past shudder at comments like this as a lifelong Spurs fan but I laugh at it now :> It's amazing how many people complain and complain about players flopping or being dirty.

And now a great player like Amare is calling them "dirty."

He's a great player and seems to be a good guy, but why open your mouth in the middle of the series and say that.

Not that the Spurs needed any more motivation after getting their tails kicked the other night.

I'm not saying the Spurs will win the next game, it's going to be tough, but come on Amare, just play and be part of a series involving the two best teams in the league.

[ludo21]

Lebron could have got it this year I agree.

Kobe... um no way, his team didnt win enough games.


EDIT: I agree, Ro. Amare didnt need to say that. But that kick in the leg looked dirty, and he simply called him out on it.

Cant wait till tommorow!!

[Pendejo]

Not only that but how ****ing hard is it when your the biggest man in the NBA to turn around and Slam a basketball? Ha!

Guys like Duncan and Hakeem are/were ten times the big men that Snak is.

"The Dream's" total domination of O'neal during the '95 finals was something else. They didn't belong on the same court.

[theAPAOps5]

Bowen is a dirty player but Amare had no business opening that can of worms right now. It just makes for more fodder. Like they said on the pre-game on ESPN just silently send the tapes to the NBA and play basketball. Calling out a dirty player who already has been called out is not smart. Manu isn't dirty he just plays sissy flopping ball.

[Clockwork Orange]

But the thing is, Nash has that teriffic player. Where's Lebron's teriffic player? Kobe's? If making your team much, much better by yourself is what the MVP award is about, then Kobe should have won it the past two seasons, with Lebron or Arenas a close second, although Arenas has two good players behind him, something Kobe and Lebron don't have.

So the person who wins the MVP shouldn't have any talent around them? Better tell that to Magic, Bird, Jordan, Malone, Kareem and anyone else who won the MVP with anything other than bush leaguers on the roster with them. In fact, you better tell that to Dirk Nowitzki, since he most definitely didn't win 67 games this year by himself.

Anyway, Nash won one of his MVP awards while Stoudemire was recovering from microfracture surgery, so any suggestion that Nash is somehow leeching off of him is laughable at best.

The MVP award is tied to team success whether people like it or not. If people want that to change, they need to make it the Most Outstanding Player (The MOP!!) award so that it's not as subjective.

[ZONA]

Bowen is a dirty player but Amare had no business opening that can of worms right now. It just makes for more fodder. Like they said on the pre-game on ESPN just silently send the tapes to the NBA and play basketball. Calling out a dirty player who already has been called out is not smart. Manu isn't dirty he just plays sissy flopping ball.


I kinda agree on part of that. I can't say that Manu is dirty, he's just a floppin Bi_ch. If the stupid ass refs fall for his gimicks then that's on them. It sucks, but I would not call that dirty. He's knocked a few people with his elbows here and there but who hasn't. That's basketball. And really, most NBA players can get over that. It's when you try and take somebody out that's going to the rim. They are in an unguarded postion, really high in the air and they are vulnerable. Guys like Bowen simply don't give a crap about that. I think Raja Bell can be dirty at times too. I don't defend him at all in regards to that. But what is funny is that Spurs fans will go to their grave believing that Bowen isn't a dirty player. But I can deal with Amare doing what he did. The dude missed a whole season due to injury and he's still a very young guy. He's a pretty big star now and probably should only get better. He doesn't want some half rate old player trying to take him out. Last thing that guy needs is to have another devistating injury.

And to hell with shutting up about stuff like this. If I was a player and somebody kicked me in the legs while going up, yeah, I'd have some words. If their team needs to hang that crap in the locker room for more motivation, then that's great. It tells me they're not playing with enough emotion in the first place. But, I don't think that is the case. That's more media talk and hype for the fans. I don't know many NBA players that go out to play 95% on purpose. They might have an bad game, but hardly do they go out and play half ass for the hell of it. Unless it's a situation where they don't like where they are at or might be playing with an injury.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

No one is saying Nash isnt a great player, i just dont think he's MVP worthy. If you had a pick up game to spare your life, is Nash your first pick? No, its Lebron, Wade, Kobe...etc.

And to those people that say Shaq is only good because of his size and all he can do is dunk. You don't even deserve to watch the game of basketball. Yes, Shaq is big, but the man is also incredibly quick for his size, has fantastic body control, wonderfully coordinated, and has great touch around the rim. He also has an uncanny knack for pulling down a board and an amazing defensive presense because of his atheltic ability.

If shaq was only good because of his size, why didn't stanley roberts dominate? Where is Pavel Podkolzine? Where are Yao Mings four championships? Chuck Nevitt? Ilgauskas? Should we continue the list of similar sized guys?

Remember back in the day when Shaq used to go coast to coast? He can move like a guard with his size...he's an incredible athlete.

And the biggest testament to Shaq? he's won 4 titles...and if you gimme "he had Kobe," I'm going to slap you. Everyone talks about Nash this, nash that...he's never even seen an NBA Finals. Plus, last time I checked, he doesnt really play any defense. He's a great player no doubt, but also has tremendous talent around him and an offensive system that allows the gaudier numbers.

So again, if you think Shaq was only good because of his size, you're simply a ****ing moron.

[-Slap-]

Oh, and as for Shaq, maybe if he'd had his fat ass in shape more often for the regular season he'd have another MVP trophy or two on his mantle.

You mean delaying "off-season" surgery so that he would miss all of training camp and need the first three months of the season to get his 400 pound ass into shape cost old Shaq some hardware?

Pity.

[GonzoLays]

Dallas has a fine team except for the fact they do not have a lowpost player. What good are sevenfooters if they can't abuse smaller players in the block?

The Mavs, as constituted, are not built for the playoffs because their best player is a jump shooter who can neither consistently take his man off the dribble or play back to the basket. Dirk is not complete player by any means.

If I were the Mavs, I would seriously have to consider a KG for Dirk trade, or possibly Jermaine O'neal and Jamaal Tinsley for Dirk and Greg Buckner. They HAVE to get a legit low post player or teams will simply go small on them like the Warriors did and expose a huge weakness in their game.

Josh Howard is a poor man's Scottie Pippen and an all-star. Jason Terry is one of the best shooting swing guards in the league. Diop/Dampier are both fine defensive players who clog the middle. Devin Harris is as fast as anyone in the NBA. Jerry Stackhouse provides toughness. All the pieces are there except for a legit low post player.

Got to deal Dirk. Unless, of course, the Mavs want to go small like everyone else and move Dirk to center and acquire an athletic swing forward like Stephen Jackson. But considering the bereft of possible pieces the Mavs have to trade, acquiring a swing player worth starting is slim.

If they do decide to go small and keep Dirk, they should go after Matt Barnes...big time. He is at least looking at the MLE from a team like the Mavs because they HAVE to do something to address their weaknesses. And if they can't do anything about their non-existent low post game, they have to go small.

[-Slap-]

No one is saying Nash isnt a great player, i just dont think he's MVP worthy. If you had a pick up game to spare your life, is Nash your first pick? No, its Lebron, Wade, Kobe...etc.

To spare my life? I hope there's a hell of a lot more at stake than that because I wouldn't trust any of them to play very hard if that was all that was on the line.

Just imagine how awful it would be to see LeBron step to the free throw line in the fourth quarter while dangling over a shark tank.

[GonzoLays]

The team to watch out for this summer is Phoenix. They could acquire a BIG TIME player this summer. I was reading on the Celtics board that if they don't win the championship this year, they would be willing to move Shawn Marion, Leahandro Barbosa, and the 4th or 5th pick in the draft to whatever team that acquires Kevin Durant. That would be crucial! Nash, Stoudamire, and Durant? What?

But then again, If I were a GM, I would never, ever deal with the Suns. If they like a player, I'm gonna like that player twice as much. If the Suns with their astute front office like Durant that much, and are willing to deal three legit players for him, then Durant might be the truth.

Durant is 6'11" tall and has a 7'4" wingspan and can play small forward! He is really a Dirk/KG/Tayshaun Prince hybrid. I don't think you can stop that because he already comes into the NBA with a complete game: back to the basket, off the dribble, mid-range, and 3 point shot. How you stop that when is damn near 7 feet tall? I don't think you can.

[GonzoLays]

I could even see Phoenix acquring KG for Barbosa, Marion, and 5th pick of the draft. Minnesota has to rebuild and I highly doubt they can get a better package of tantalizing youth (5th pick), an all-star (Shawn Marion) and up and coming all-star in Barbosa.

Or at the very minimum, the Suns can at least get Jermaine O'neal/Danny Granger for that same package.

[Willynowei]

If shaq didn't get MVP every single year in his career between his third year as a laker and his second year as a heat, then no, nash shouldn't get it 3 times in a row.

I would've liked them to give it to Kobe this year, who atleast didn't look fuggly in the playoffs.

[theAPAOps5]

Just imagine how awful it would be to see LeBron step to the free throw line in the fourth quarter while dangling over a shark tank.

Oh man you are as good as dead. Lebron has developed a serious case of the yipps when games are on the line.

[PLOWHORSE]

I could even see Phoenix acquring KG for Barbosa, Marion, and 5th pick of the draft. Minnesota has to rebuild and I highly doubt they can get a better package of tantalizing youth (5th pick), an all-star (Shawn Marion) and up and coming all-star in Barbosa.

Or at the very minimum, the Suns can at least get Jermaine O'neal/Danny Granger for that same package.

No way does phx make that trade

[ludo21]

The team to watch out for this summer is Phoenix. They could acquire a BIG TIME player this summer. I was reading on the Celtics board that if they don't win the championship this year, they would be willing to move Shawn Marion, Leahandro Barbosa, and the 4th or 5th pick in the draft to whatever team that acquires Kevin Durant. That would be crucial! Nash, Stoudamire, and Durant? What?

But then again, If I were a GM, I would never, ever deal with the Suns. If they like a player, I'm gonna like that player twice as much. If the Suns with their astute front office like Durant that much, and are willing to deal three legit players for him, then Durant might be the truth.

Durant is 6'11" tall and has a 7'4" wingspan and can play small forward! He is really a Dirk/KG/Tayshaun Prince hybrid. I don't think you can stop that because he already comes into the NBA with a complete game: back to the basket, off the dribble, mid-range, and 3 point shot. How you stop that when is damn near 7 feet tall? I don't think you can.


man i would hate to give up Barbosa, but Durant would be sick!!!

KG, we already have Amare, same with O neal.. Durant would make sense....

[SonOfLe-loLang]

If i were the celtics i wouldnt do that from a talet or marketing standpoint. I think the Phoenix system is kind of like the run and shoot of the NBA. It inflates stats...and IT DOESNT WIN.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

To spare my life? I hope there's a hell of a lot more at stake than that because I wouldn't trust any of them to play very hard if that was all that was on the line.

Just imagine how awful it would be to see LeBron step to the free throw line in the fourth quarter while dangling over a shark tank.

Thanks for missing my entire point

[ludo21]

If i were the celtics i wouldnt do that from a talet or marketing standpoint. I think the Phoenix system is kind of like the run and shoot of the NBA. It inflates stats...and IT DOESNT WIN.

The Suns style doesnt win?

[Inkana7]

The Suns style doesnt win?

Not if you want winning to equal winning championships.

[ludo21]

Not if you want winning to equal winning championships.

we shall see........

[Malcontent]

GO Suns!!

[ZONA]

Not if you want winning to equal winning championships.

Hmm, I recall the showtime Lakers winning many rings with that kinda of play. That's the most stupid statement I ever heard. Sounds like it's coming from a Spurs fan.

[ZONA]

No way does phx make that trade

Well the Suns have a lot of fire power to use in the offseason should they want to do it. They have I believe 3 first round picks and some guys they could deal. I personally think the Suns want to hold onto Barbosa because he's still super young and keeps improving every year. That's a good sign. They might be willing to move Diaw, we shall see. He has a crap load of talent and presents a good mismatch but the guys just doesn't have a mean streak in him and rarely goes to the rim hard. If you put Barkley's mentality into Diaw's body, you would have an all-star every year.

Personally, and Suns fans can rip me on this if they want, but I think Marion or Bell is what they need to use as bait, maybe both. Both have tremendous value right now and in the prime of their careers. Yes, both bring alot to the table for the Suns but I think a player that Phoenix needs more then what Shawn or Bell gives them is that smaller 3 guard or taller 2 guard that can penetrate off the dribble and get his own shots and still finish strong at the rim. Marion can finish at the rim but struggles taking guys off the dribble. He just doesn't have great hands and dribbling skills. His shooting is decent at time but nothing to brag about. Bell can hit good jumpers but lacks the ability to get to the rim and finish or get fouled. Both are great defenders but I think Phoenix needs that other type of player more so then what Shawn or Bell give them. Steve Nash cannot be the only guy who can penetrate the lanes. Barbosa is doing better at that but I like him right now as that 6th guy who can hit big 3's and pick up that tempo when the starters get rest on the bench. If the Suns could land a forward or big guard like, well, the guy the let go a few years ago. I think Joe Thomas would have been perfect for them right now. Big 6'8 guard who can dribble, penetrate, finish, shoot and D up. That was stupid to let him go. But, there are other good players who do that and that's what I think the Suns need to add.

[TheChamp24]

See, the Suns have what it would take to get an elite player, the Mavs do not. The Suns could probably trade Marion or Bell, with some incentives and may in fact be better depending on who they get.
Now, on Barbosa, if I were a Suns fan I'd be so mixed on the guy because sometimes he shows flashes, and other times he is so darn frustrating to watch. I would be ripping hair out of my head watching that guy every day, the way he runs around and throws away turnovers.

[-Slap-]

Originally Posted by -Slap-
To spare my life? I hope there's a hell of a lot more at stake than that because I wouldn't trust any of them to play very hard if that was all that was on the line.

Just imagine how awful it would be to see LeBron step to the free throw line in the fourth quarter while dangling over a shark tank.

Thanks for missing my entire point

Thanks for being a humorless dickbag.

:wave:

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Apologies, the OM is filled with too many idiots to assume sarcasm.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Hmm, I recall the showtime Lakers winning many rings with that kinda of play. That's the most stupid statement I ever heard. Sounds like it's coming from a Spurs fan.

Today's game is different, a lot more physical

[-Slap-]

Apologies, the OM is filled with too many idiots to assume sarcasm.

Not your fault. I segue seamlessly between sarcasm and idiocy. Some posts are a coinflip at best.

[TheChamp24]

Today's game is different, a lot more physical

Today's game is a lot more physical? What? I bet some of the retired folks are wishing they could play in todays game where there are ticky tack fouls called.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Ummm, yes, todays game is a lot more physical...regardless of the "ticky tack fouls" Remember the Knicks of the 90's?

[ZONA]

Today's game is a lot more physical? What? I bet some of the retired folks are wishing they could play in todays game where there are ticky tack fouls called.

I was thinking the same thing. Back in the day, you could, let's see.....

1) Defense could camp in paint all day long
2) arm bar
3) had way more moving picks
4) face guard
5) have a fight and only get suspended for a game or two
6) undercut players and take charges all they way to the rim (no circle)
7) hand check
8) two hands in the back
9) back low post defender down by knockin his ass back

I think the game was much more physical when the Magic and the Lakers were playing then it is today.

But, that said. It doesn't matter if new rules are in place or not, you still see players like Duncan, who can foul who ever he wants 15 times a game and he will still only get calle for 3 fouls per game. It just depends what calls you get and what calls you don't get.

Matter of fact, I would say the NBA refs play a much larger role in what team wins and who doesn't, on a day to day baiss, then any other sport that has referees. Football you might see a bad call or two, but now they have replay so that has gone down alot. NBA, you see a plethera of bad calls every night. Sometimes they even out because each team will get some, other nights you really can see a single team get hosed by a ton of missed or bad calls. NBA refs are the worst in sports. Well, maybe 2nd worst. Boxing judges can be alot worse.

[Inkana7]

Hmm, I recall the showtime Lakers winning many rings with that kinda of play. That's the most stupid statement I ever heard. Sounds like it's coming from a Spurs fan.

Cavs fan actually. I kinda just watch you guys fight it out over which west team is best, then jump in praising Lebron once and a while. It's good fun.