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Rascal
05-10-2007, 12:21 PM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=6796

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- If a team wants to make a trade, it can't do so merely for the desire to shake things up and execute a swap. Nor can it do so for what it perceives to be too high a cost -- or to target a position of strength when pressing needs exist and can be addressed with later selections.

But until the Green Bay Packers tapped defensive tackle Justin Harrell with the 16th pick, the Broncos had designs on grabbing two of their first-round targets -- by dealing their way into a pick after their 21st selection.

"The hope was this -- we would get one of the three guys at 21, and I had contacted everybody from 22 to 27," General Manager Ted Sundquist said. "I had commitments from Philly -- who traded its first-round pick -- and I had a pretty firm commitment from Dallas, the next pick behind us. On draft day, we were sitting very, very pretty with regards to having two first-rounders."

But with Harrell and Lawrence Timmons -- another player Sundquist cited as a target -- off the board, those plans were scuttled, and the Broncos zeroed in on pick No. 17 and Jarvis Moss

"I think it's important that the fans know that we were sitting to move, but we're not going to do it just for the sake of saying, 'We had two No. 1s,' but we end up taking somebody at a particular position we didn't need because we had already filled that through other avenues," Sundquist said.

Indeed, the Broncos went into the draft believing they had addressed many of their needs through the various modes of free agency.

Cornerback? Dre' Bly.

Blocking tight end? Daniel Graham.

Tailback? Travis Henry.

Guard? Montrae Holland.

Wide receiver depth? Brandon Stokley and David Terrell, the latter of whom re-signed in April after being released at the end of last year's preseason.

"We liked him when he was here before. (Head) Coach (Mike) Shanahan liked him," Sundquist said. "We'll give him another shot."

Linebacker depth? Warrick Holdman and D.D. Lewis signed less than 48 hours before the draft.

"If you take a look at some of the linebackers (assistant head coach) (Jim) Bates had at Green Bay and Miami, I don't know that they were any more athletic or explosive than what we've already got on the club here," Sundquist said.

As for safety -- where the Broncos' starting tandem of John Lynch and Nick Ferguson are both over 30 years of age?

"If you're going to draft a safety in the first day, then the guy's probably going to need to play. Where's he going to play? If there's a healthy John Lynch and a healthy Nick Ferguson, he's probably not going to play; He'll probably be a backup," Sundquist said. "Where does a (new) guy fit?

"I guess the question is do we spend two or three million dollars for a second-rounder for two or three years down the road who won't play right away when you can draft that guy next year?

"To have gone after a Brandon Meriweather or Reggie Nelson or one of those guys knowing full well that he'll probably be sitting -- no, not when we felt we needed defensive linemen."

GOING BACK TO DEFENSIVE END

Denver had zeroed in on Atlanta's Patrick Kerney in the opening days of the free-agent signing period, but the Broncos lost out to the Seattle Seahawks in the bidding war for his services.

That setback, though, might turn out to be a blessing in disguise if the Broncos' draft picks can blossom.

"In unrestricted free agency – you're normally going to overpay," Sundquist said. "Am I a little more excited about having Tim Crowder and Moss than, say, (Patrick) Kerney? To be honest with you, yeah, I am. I know Kerney's done it in the league, but to be honest with you, I think these kids are as talented - or more talented -- than Patrick Kerney was coming out of college. Now, give them an opportunity to develop and grow, and be coached by (defensive line coach) Bill Johnson as well, and let's see where they get."

Even with the pursuit of Kerney, Sundquist had already prioritized defensive line as a draft target, owing to the unusual depth of prospects at the position in this year's class.

"Absolutely," he said.

In selecting Crowder with their second-round pick, the Broncos found a defensive end with the starting experience that first-rounder Jarvis Moss could not accumulate due to the staph infection that cost him nearly two years of his playing years at Florida. Crowder was healthy and durable at Texas, starting 47 consecutive games as part of one of the most successful senior classes in Texas Longhorns annals.

"We had a block of second-round players that we thought were deserving and could help our football team at that point in time," Sundquist said. "There's a lot of people that will argue that this guy (Crowder) is a first-round talent -- and that's what you're looking for. You're looking for first-round talent, and he's got that talent.

"We had the need at that spot, and we felt (Crowder) has the ability to help us on the defensive front and it was a very similar thought to the year we took all the cornerbacks (in 2005)."

ON TO ROUND THREE

Fourteen selections later, the Broncos were back on the clock with the 70th overall selection -- acquired last year from the Washington Redskins -- and it was time to change the focus.

"There was some discussion about linebacker and some other places," Sundquist said, "but we hadn't addressed offensive line on the first day (of the draft) since George Foster (in 2003)."

Notre Dame's Ryan Harris emerged as a logical choice for the Broncos. With 305 pounds on his 6-foot-4 frame, he fit the size the Broncos typically seek in an offensive line that is sleeker and slimmer than almost any other in the league. With four years of starting experience in pro-style schemes -- including three at left tackle and one on the right side -- he comes with a bit more polish and refinement than many of the other prospects at his position.

His position also naturally gives him a greater chance to push for playing time immediately, although Sundquist added that Harris could "eventually" have the opportunity to play on the left side. Veteran Matt Lepsis has been the primary left tackle since 2004.

"At tackle, a lot of times you can get them out there and get them going a little more quickly than you can the interior guys," Sundquist said. "Most of our offensive-line picks are on the second day, and those guys are still developing: Chris Myers, Chris Kuper, Greg Eslinger; those kids need multiple years."

At tackle, the Broncos returned three players who started at various points last year, but two have injury concerns: Lepsis -- recovering from a torn anterior cruciate ligament -- and Adam Meadows, who battled a hamstring problem late last year and spent two years in retirement after a series of shoulder problems.

"We feel like we had good depth at tackle already with Adam Meadows, Matt Lepsis, Erik Pears and those guys, but yeah, there's some injury factor there," Sundquist said. "We felt ... that the need at linebacker at that point did not outweigh the need on the offensive line."

But as the draft continued, it was back to the defensive front.

DEALS: DISCUSSED, DEBATED OR DEBUNKED:

Although the Broncos would turn their attention to Florida's Marcus Thomas at the end of the draft's first day, there was one defensive tackle upon whom Sundquist did not cast his eye.

"(The report about) trying to trade for (Carolina's) Kris Jenkins, I have no clue where that came from," Sundquist said. "Draft-day deals involving (Eagles running back Ryan) Moats and people like that -- I have no idea where this stuff comes from."

Such conjecture is inexorably linked with the 24/7, no-true-offseason, feed-the-beast chronicling of the Broncos and the NFL in general that is a defining characteristic of professional football in the 21st Century. At the dawn of an epoch where information is granted -- and grabbed -- whenever and wherever anyone desires it, sorting through rumors, speculation and opinion is part of Sundquist's job.

He just wants the record straight when the opportunity for reflection arises -- which is why he and Shanahan both pointed out that the talks with the Detroit Lions about trading for the No. 2 overall pick took place in the days following the Scouting Combine, and why Sundquist took the time to explain that the Broncos weren't in the mix for Moats and Jenkins.

"What I don't want to have linked with it is that the club failed to pick that player up," Sundquist said. "We may not have been pursuing him in the first place."

But the Broncos were pursuing Thomas, and as the first day of the draft ended, Sundquist was working the telephones. Having traded the 86th pick to the Jaguars in order to move up four picks in the first round and take Moss, he was using his sixth- and seventh-round selections this year and a third-rounder next year as negotiating chips.

If the Broncos had been able to hang onto their third-round pick ...

"He's probably taken at 86," Sundquist explained. "But herein lies the deal. I started trying to trade from the back end of the third round until the end of the first day. I called every single team and offered them the exact same thing that Minnesota took at the end of the fourth round and nobody would take it."

Rascal
05-10-2007, 12:22 PM
I would have **** my pants had we picked two of Harrell, Timmons, and Moss in the first.

SoonerBronco
05-10-2007, 12:24 PM
I would have **** my pants had we picked two of Harrell, Timmons, and Moss in the first.


You are not the only one...

ludo21
05-10-2007, 12:36 PM
Too bad they didnt fall!

ugh!

I like that the team was going after legit prospects rather than doing it the Socal way and just adding a ton of picks and picking a ton of players and hoping a few turn out.

watermock
05-10-2007, 12:38 PM
Sundquist sounds like an apologist in that comment.

plummerrox
05-10-2007, 01:24 PM
:~ohyah!: I sh!t my pants anyway...but that's a whole different discussion...

RocBronc
05-10-2007, 01:37 PM
Interesting stuff... But he didn't answer the real question. Why didn't he just stay at 21 when Moss was in no real danger of being drafted by any teams ahead of them. (No team above them drafted a DE until the 6th round)

Beantown Bronco
05-10-2007, 01:39 PM
Interesting stuff... But he didn't answer the real question. Why didn't he just stay at 21 when Moss was in no real danger of being drafted by any teams ahead of them. (No team above them drafted a DE until the 6th round)

We already went over this. Same reason the chefs lost out on Quinn: because any other team could have leapfrogged them if they had Moss rated as a round one DE as the Broncos did. You can't just look at the teams that were slated to draft ahead of them; you have to also account for other teams that were in a position to trade up.

JCMElway
05-10-2007, 02:05 PM
We already went over this. Same reason the chefs lost out on Quinn: because any other team could have leapfrogged them if they had Moss rated as a round one DE as the Broncos did. You can't just look at the teams that were slated to draft ahead of them; you have to also account for other teams that were in a position to trade up.

Quoted for truth! If Denver stays pat and misses out on their guy because they think he'd fall and someone trades up to get him, their would have been major egg on Shanny and Sunquist's faces. As it is, we pay less money for less draft picks and get four guys that were very high on the draft board.

And just think if the Al Wilson and our other trade to pick up a fourth rounder would have gone through? (What trade was that again? I forget.) We probably would have had enough ammo to get two of Moss, Harrell, or Timmons.

Moss may have been there at 21, but then again......

BroncoInferno
05-10-2007, 02:05 PM
We already went over this. Same reason the chefs lost out on Quinn: because any other team could have leapfrogged them if they had Moss rated as a round one DE as the Broncos did. You can't just look at the teams that were slated to draft ahead of them; you have to also account for other teams that were in a position to trade up.

According to reports, Tennessee would have given Moss strong consideration at #19.

FantomForce
05-10-2007, 03:17 PM
I would have **** my pants had we picked two of Harrell, Timmons, and Moss in the first.

I still did cuz the draft means were that much closer to opening day, I was just so excited!!!:thumbs:

bendog
05-10-2007, 03:31 PM
According to reports, Tennessee would have given Moss strong consideration at #19.

Yeah, Moss fit a need in TN, and would have helped their DB. Their interior dline is stout. Plus, Shanny's had good reads on what Fischer likes to do.

RocBronc
05-10-2007, 03:50 PM
I know that people can trade up but remember the whole Brady Quinn fallback position. We could have fleeced the Browns if Moss would have been taken. (King's piece on SI said that the Browns were calling everyone in the late teens.)

Also, our pick of Moss have been generally derided mainly for the "character" issues which makes me wonder about the possibility of someone trying to trade up to get him.

I hadn't heard the whole Tennessee thing...
Finally, I don't know about how much money we really saved... We traded up to the 17th pick so that's going to cost us and we also lost 2 6th round picks plus our 3rd next year. It still seems a bit much to pay for the risk.

We can all have our opinions which leads me back to my real point... I wish Sundquist would have answered the question...

Atwater His Ass
05-10-2007, 03:59 PM
Hindsight is 20/20. I'm happy with our draft.

epicSocialism4tw
05-10-2007, 04:45 PM
Good article.

Harrell and Moss would have been a significant boon. It just goes to show you that this team has been waiting for an opportunity like this to address the defensive line. They saw an opportunity to take a franchise QB in Cut last season, and this season they saw an opportunity to finally try to address the teams biggest weakness.

I agree with him in that you have a better reward in drafting help as opposed to signing an overpriced guy like Kerney. Moss' ceiling is higher than Kerneys without a doubt.

I am very pleased with Moss, Crowder, and Thomas. A nice OT prospect that fits the system in Harris is the cherry on top.

Popcorn Sutton
05-10-2007, 04:49 PM
I know that people can trade up but remember the whole Brady Quinn fallback position. We could have fleeced the Browns if Moss would have been taken. (King's piece on SI said that the Browns were calling everyone in the late teens.)

Also, our pick of Moss have been generally derided mainly for the "character" issues which makes me wonder about the possibility of someone trying to trade up to get him.

I hadn't heard the whole Tennessee thing...
Finally, I don't know about how much money we really saved... We traded up to the 17th pick so that's going to cost us and we also lost 2 6th round picks plus our 3rd next year. It still seems a bit much to pay for the risk.

We can all have our opinions which leads me back to my real point... I wish Sundquist would have answered the question...

Get off of it already!

Dallas at 22 was looking at D Line... They ended up trading with Cleveland and drafted an end at the start of the 2nd round but they were definite contenders for a trade up for Moss. You have Tennessee, and there could have been others. Ted Sundquist isn't going to spill his guts about all possible scenarios he had going through his head when that 16th pick came off the board and they saw it was Justin Harrell. They had no idea that Harrell would go at 16. From what I hear, he wouldn't have if Buffalo didn't take Lynch at 12 because Green Bay was targeting him. Regardless, to sit here with hindsight and say they shouldn't have traded up to get Moss is a waste of time.

They drafted a player they had targeted. Job well done.

jonny1
05-10-2007, 05:00 PM
It may not have been in this article, but I remember reading Sundquist saying that when 2 of the 3 guys they wanted were gone, they just felt that they couldn't leave it to chance. Basically said, if the guy you want is there, go get him, and don't give someone else a chance.

Requiem
05-10-2007, 05:10 PM
I wonder what kind of deals were in place, my guess is one of our thirds this year, plus a future first. Which would have left us with two-first rounders, #56 and probably #86 as our other third. DAMN.

Play2win
05-10-2007, 05:27 PM
I would have **** my pants had we picked two of Harrell, Timmons, and Moss in the first.

It will be interesting to see if Marcus Thomas becomes a better pro than Harrell...


Who does everybody think will be better HARRELL or THOMAS ??

R8R H8R
05-10-2007, 06:08 PM
We can all have our opinions which leads me back to my real point... I wish Sundquist would have answered the question...

This article is actually part two. Please do a search and you will find a thread of part one, or go to www.denverbroncos.com and search for the original article. It was written a week or so after the draft, I believe.

Sunquist goes to great length about why the Broncos traded up. The reason some people are a little short with you on this subject is because this topic has been beaten to death.:deadhorse

Cito Pelon
05-10-2007, 08:15 PM
Interesting article(s). We don't often get treated to this insight from the BBT that I remember.

The bottom line I guess to the BBT was they had a "need" at DL, and although they had a "block" of players targeted in the 2nd round they weighted DL a little higher and went w/Crowder. Same w/round 3 where they figured the OT was the better way to go than LB or some other positions.

Interesting that they figured neither Meriweather or Nelson of the round 1 safeties could start for a couple of years ahead of Lynch or Ferguson.

ZONA
05-10-2007, 08:22 PM
Watch Thomas turn out to be our best pick, and we got him in the 4th. Hilarious!

ludo21
05-10-2007, 08:28 PM
Watch Thomas turn out to be our best pick, and we got him in the 4th. Hilarious!

happens every year on some teams.

Its all about want to, and how they translate to the NFL game.

I think Harrell will be a better pro as of now, but O hope Thomas proves me wrong!!

Paladin
05-10-2007, 11:42 PM
Thomas was, early on, a top fifteen pick. Harrel was 16. That's a push right there......

epicSocialism4tw
05-11-2007, 12:04 AM
Thomas was, early on, a top fifteen pick. Harrel was 16. That's a push right there......

After looking at their tape, I liked Thomas better. Thomas can get into the backfield like a wildman. He has explosive burst and quick feet as well as strength and power. Harrell is a body mover, and there's nothing wrong with that, but our defense needs penetration at the line and Thomas is a better fit.

Both guys come in with issues...Harrell with injury issues and Thomas with personality issues. Thomas has the bigger upside.

Billy Clyde Puckett
05-11-2007, 12:09 AM
After looking at their tape, I liked Thomas better. Thomas can get into the backfield like a wildman. He has explosive burst and quick feet as well as strength and power. Harrell is a body mover, and there's nothing wrong with that, but our defense needs penetration at the line and Thomas is a better fit.

Both guys come in with issues...Harrell with injury issues and Thomas with personality issues. Thomas has the bigger upside.

Only when you are watching a couple of YouTube clips instead of actual games.

Malcontent
05-11-2007, 12:12 AM
I'm just happy that this is a thread without gonzo. Made my day. Yes Gonzo--people do find cheap thrills like this from a mere message board. STFU.

watermock
05-11-2007, 12:16 AM
Sturring manure isn't well advised.

It's obvious the draft didn't go as planned.

bpc
05-11-2007, 12:19 AM
If Thomas stays healthy... he is a more talented player rushing the passer from the DT spot, something that we have lacked forever and something I feel we need to beat the Colts.

epicSocialism4tw
05-11-2007, 12:20 AM
Big Guy, I dont claim to have on glasses of any other color. It's nice that Thomas wore orange and blue before, but I digress.

Thomas is a strong player though. On physical skills alone, he's a quality player. He's a blue chip. For all intents and purposes, he is saying all of the right things and showing commitment. I like that he has shown really detailed logs of his drug testing and has gone out of his way to interview about everything. He's sending the right message, unlike that Clarett fellow. Thomas is a fourth rounder. He now has no guarantees, and he acts as though he understands this. If he comes into camp motivated to make a place for himself, we will have a first-round player on our hands for fourth round money. What's not to like about that?

Billy Clyde Puckett
05-11-2007, 09:34 AM
Big Guy, I dont claim to have on glasses of any other color. It's nice that Thomas wore orange and blue before, but I digress.

Thomas is a strong player though. On physical skills alone, he's a quality player. He's a blue chip. For all intents and purposes, he is saying all of the right things and showing commitment. I like that he has shown really detailed logs of his drug testing and has gone out of his way to interview about everything. He's sending the right message, unlike that Clarett fellow. Thomas is a fourth rounder. He now has no guarantees, and he acts as though he understands this. If he comes into camp motivated to make a place for himself, we will have a first-round player on our hands for fourth round money. What's not to like about that?

But you were stating that based on "film" he is a better player than Harrell. That is simply untrue. If you watched 2005 games rather than some YouTube clips it would be evident. Watch their both against Ben Grubbs, possibly the best college OG the last three years. I hope he works out for the Broncos and he turns his life around, but there is no way he was incredible talent that some here want to believe. Go back and watch the Florida games this year. The defense played better when he was suspended.

epicSocialism4tw
05-11-2007, 03:39 PM
But you were stating that based on "film" he is a better player than Harrell. That is simply untrue. If you watched 2005 games rather than some YouTube clips it would be evident. Watch their both against Ben Grubbs, possibly the best college OG the last three years. I hope he works out for the Broncos and he turns his life around, but there is no way he was incredible talent that some here want to believe. Go back and watch the Florida games this year. The defense played better when he was suspended.


I said that Thomas was more suitable for the Broncos' needs. Not that he was better. I clearly delineated between the strengths of both.