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epicSocialism4tw
05-08-2007, 06:37 PM
Researchers say they’ve found Herod’s tomb
Find could provide insights into one of the Bible's most reviled figures
By Steve Weizman
The Associated Press
Updated: 4:20 p.m. CT May 8, 2007
HERODIUM, West Bank - Under a baking sun, pieces of limestone carved with borders of rosettes and geometrical designs lay in three excavated pits Tuesday — a desert site Israeli archaeologists say is the tomb of King Herod, who ruled the Holy Land when Christ was born.

The find, which could provide insights into one of the Bible's most reviled yet influential figures, includes hundreds of pieces of an ornate sarcophagus, but no bones and no inscription that would seal the identification.

Although the tomb was shattered and empty, leaders of the Israeli team that unearthed it said Tuesday they will dig on in the hope of finding jewelry, other artifacts or even the biblical monarch's remains.

Hebrew University archaeologist Ehud Netzer said he has been leading the search for Herod's tomb at the king's winter palace in the Judean desert, in an Israeli-controlled part of the West Bank south of Jerusalem, for 35 years.

Last month, his team started unearthing limestone fragments, from which emerged the picture of an ornately carved sarcophagus with decorative urns of a type never before found in the Holy Land.

"It's a sarcophagus we don't just see anywhere," Netzer told reporters at the university. "It is something very special."

The complete sarcophagus would have been about nine feet long, the university said.

Herod was the Jewish proxy ruler of the Holy Land under imperial Roman occupation from 37 B.C. His most famous construction project was expanding the Jewish Second Temple in Jerusalem.

Remnants of his extensive building work in Jerusalem are still visible in Jerusalem's Old City, and he undertook major construction projects in Caesaria, Jericho, the hilltop fortress of Masada and elsewhere.

At the excavation site, on the steep, rocky slopes of a cone-shaped hill 2,230 feet high, Netzer's assistant, Yaakov Kalmar, said that an account of Herod's funeral by the first-century historian Josephus Flavius left little doubt that it took place at Herodium. The newly discovered tomb was regal in its opulence.

"We have here all the attributes of a royal funeral," Kalmar said. "We didn't find inscriptions so far... The work is not finished."

The site sits halfway up the hill, atop a warren of tunnels and water cisterns built to serve the palace at the summit.


Stephen Pfann, an American expert in the Second Temple period at the University of the Holy Land, called the find a "major discovery by all means," but said the lack of an inscription hindered full verification.

"We're moving in the right direction. It will be clinched once we have an inscription that bears his name," said Pfann, who did not participate in Netzer's dig.

Eric Myers of Duke University, who has excavated in the Holy Land, said initial descriptions of the tomb pointed to its authenticity as belonging to Herod.

"We know he was buried at Herodium," he said by telephone. "It's a significant find after a long search."



Myers said that among key clues were that the sarcophagus was placed on a raised platform rather than in the underground tombs used for those of lesser rank, and that in accordance with Jewish religious law, it was not decorated with any human image.

"It sounds as if Herod was respectful of his Jewish tradition right up to the end," he said.

David Owen, a biblical historian and archaeologist at Cornell University who has done extensive field work in Israel, was not surprised by the find.

"That's where Josephus says he was buried," said Owen. "He built that entire palatial complex and there are few doubts that his tomb would be there."

Historians agree that toward the end of his reign Herod slaughtered many political rivals and perceived plotters against him, among them one of his 10 wives and three of his sons. Josephus says that as the elderly Herod lay riddled with disease, he ordered the cream of the local Jewish aristocracy to be executed on his demise, so that his passing would bring widespread and genuine mourning.

After Herod's death, Herodium became a stronghold for Jewish rebels fighting Roman occupation, and the site suffered significant battle damage before it was conquered and finally destroyed by Roman forces in A.D. 71, a year after they destroyed the Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

Kalmar said the sarcophagus could have been destroyed during Roman attacks or smashed by the rebels, who reviled the memory of Herod as a Roman puppet.

"We know that Herod had a lot of enemies," he said.

Roi Porat, another of Netzer's assistants on the digs, said it was possible that the Jews removed Herod's remains after his tomb was reduced to rubble.

AP writer Lily Hindy contributed to this report from New York.

© 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18539605/page/2/

Rohirrim
05-08-2007, 06:40 PM
Hmmmm. I didn't even know he was sick.

Smiling Assassin27
05-08-2007, 06:42 PM
Cool read.

Master___Pain
05-08-2007, 06:49 PM
Interesting read.

Now Llama, when are you going to take your medicine and man up about the Mavs?

Northman
05-08-2007, 06:54 PM
Watch, it will turn out they actually found a old hole where a Outhouse once stood years ago.

Kaylore
05-08-2007, 07:28 PM
Hmmmm. I didn't even know he was sick.

It's in the Bible.

Northman
05-08-2007, 07:30 PM
It's in the Bible.

Isnt that the book where a bunch of humans created a story and wrote it up? :angel:

Kaylore
05-08-2007, 07:37 PM
Isnt that the book where a bunch of humans created a story and wrote it up? :angel:
Regardless of what you think of the dogma, a lot of the events are historically accurate.

Northman
05-08-2007, 07:55 PM
Regardless of what you think of the dogma, a lot of the events are historically accurate.

And unfortuantely, a lot of it is not.

epicSocialism4tw
05-08-2007, 08:08 PM
And unfortuantely, a lot of it is not.

Hmmmm....says who?

Northman
05-08-2007, 08:11 PM
Hmmmm....says who?

Says anyone who is objective on such matters.

Kaylore
05-08-2007, 08:11 PM
And unfortuantely, a lot of it is not.

Not true.

epicSocialism4tw
05-08-2007, 08:14 PM
Says anyone who is objective on such matters.

Oh...okay.

Like Maynard Keenan? He's the authority around here.

footstepsfrom#27
05-08-2007, 08:21 PM
Cool...

Northman
05-08-2007, 08:22 PM
Not true.

Are you claiming Jesus rising from the grave to be true? Or just a belief? Did he have healing powers? Again or just a belief. Was anyone who wrote the bible around to witness Genesis? I think not. Although some events ( as you say ) are historically accurate not everything that was put into the Bible is true. Revelations? We have yet to even witness this event if it will even occur. Again, its all based on a belief. I grew up in a christian household and went to many christian schools, been part of many different religions and all of them believe they are right. Ive seen it all and there is nothing to convince me that the Bible is the actual word of God. Its more of a telling of certain events surrounded by a extreme imagination and storytelling.

RkyMtnThunder
05-08-2007, 08:22 PM
There are indeed historical accuracies in the bible

There are also fantastical myths in the bible

Both camps have a slice of it right here. Arguing about it is silly

Northman
05-08-2007, 08:23 PM
Oh...okay.

Like Maynard Keenan? He's the authority around here.


He is? News to me.

Bronco_Beerslug
05-08-2007, 08:26 PM
Isnt that the book where a bunch of humans created a story and wrote it up? :angel:This is only thing the Mad Yak will talk about now, that and Chuck. I think he secretly dreams himself wet over him.

DarkHorse30
05-08-2007, 09:29 PM
jeez, Anubis.....get off your own cloud. You think you're the first atheist or something? Let's talk politics...

Rohirrim
05-08-2007, 09:33 PM
How 'bout those Mavs? ;D

Bronco_Beerslug
05-08-2007, 09:39 PM
How 'bout those Mavs? ;DI don't see anyone stopping them all the way to the finals.

epicSocialism4tw
05-08-2007, 10:04 PM
He is? News to me.

Well, welcome to the world Anubis. All wisdom begins and ends with Maynard Keenan

theAPAOps5
05-08-2007, 10:06 PM
When are going to see the real Mavs against Golden State?

Northman
05-09-2007, 06:06 AM
jeez, Anubis.....get off your own cloud. You think you're the first atheist or something? Let's talk politics...


Politics are boring. ;)

Spider
05-09-2007, 10:30 AM
I didnt even know who Herod was .......

Bronco Bob
05-09-2007, 11:29 AM
Regardless of what you think of the dogma, a lot of the events are historically accurate.

So what? Spiderman lives in New York City and there were several incidents
in Spiderman stories based on real events that happened in New York City
and real people that live or lived in New York City.
That doesn't make Spiderman a real person.

TheDave
05-09-2007, 11:45 AM
I had a fantastic Breakfast Burrito this morning.... eggs, bacon, potatoes, green chile, mmmmmm

bronco_diesel
05-09-2007, 12:33 PM
Are you claiming Jesus rising from the grave to be true? Or just a belief? Did he have healing powers? Again or just a belief. Was anyone who wrote the bible around to witness Genesis? I think not. Although some events ( as you say ) are historically accurate not everything that was put into the Bible is true. Revelations? We have yet to even witness this event if it will even occur. Again, its all based on a belief. I grew up in a christian household and went to many christian schools, been part of many different religions and all of them believe they are right. Ive seen it all and there is nothing to convince me that the Bible is the actual word of God. Its more of a telling of certain events surrounded by a extreme imagination and storytelling.

Anubis,

You might want to look into William Lane Craig - I think he does a great job addressing the questions of the resurrection.

You brought up Revelation - how can you be so sure that we are not witnessing these events? or the coming of these events? are you even sure what they mean? or have you studied the prophecies to know what to even look for?

there are signs to look for before things can happen. 1 big sign is the birth of the nation of israel. this happened in 1948 - so that needs to be a starting point. which by the way,that event in itself is a fulfillement of biblical prophecies.

the book of Daniel is like the decoder ring for Revelation - when you study them in conjunction, much can be made of what to look for. Such as we are to look for a 10 nation alliance to arise near the Medditeranian sea. We are to look for a person who will rise from those 10 nations in the name of peace, and we can recognize who is by the number 666. We also know that this person will confirm (make strong or revive) a treaty with many nations for 7 years.

Regarding the 666 - when you look at the greek (which it was written in) calculate (the word used) means to count out as like in pebbles, it will land where it lands. not a manipulation of numbers to make the number fit on a person.

This is all happening today.
-the WEU is made of 10 nations which is military strong.
-a position inside the WEU was created - called the High Representative.
this position was created by assembly recommendation 666 - out of over 1100 documents why did one that specifically details 10 nations - and a single position land on this one? what are those odds? especially considering the ramifications of 666.
-the person that holds this position has indeed confirmed a treat for 7 years - the ENP which began on Jan 1, 2007.

there is so much more to offer -and i realize that some will object - but this is all evidence that can be researched and is NOT made up.

it's not a good argument to say it isn't happening when you don't even know what to look for - or are not looking.

for more on this - take a look here: http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/contents_menu.html

bronco_diesel
05-09-2007, 12:35 PM
So what? Spiderman lives in New York City and there were several incidents
in Spiderman stories based on real events that happened in New York City
and real people that live or lived in New York City.
That doesn't make Spiderman a real person.


i hope you see the fallacy in your logic.
even the most opposed to Jesus did not deny his existance. but rather they tried to explain his missing body.

1. if he didn't exist - you don't have to explain a missing body.
2. why would his biggest opposers even admit he was a person.

Spider
05-09-2007, 12:43 PM
I had a fantastic Breakfast Burrito this morning.... eggs, bacon, potatoes, green chile, mmmmmm

dont fart near me

bendog
05-09-2007, 01:23 PM
I had a fantastic Breakfast Burrito this morning.... eggs, bacon, potatoes, green chile, mmmmmm

You ate pork and probably used your unclean ham. You're going to burn, eternally ... and painfully. Even after you pass that thing.

TheDave
05-09-2007, 01:33 PM
You ate pork and probably used your unclean ham. You're going to burn, eternally ... and painfully. Even after you pass that thing.

Damned if I do, damned if I do't :nyahdevil

alkemical
05-09-2007, 01:43 PM
Doesn't matter dave, if you don't believe it - it's not true ;)

bendog
05-09-2007, 01:54 PM
(-:

http://www.allmusicals.com/lyrics/jesuschristsuperstar/kingherodssongtryitandsee.htm

epicSocialism4tw
05-09-2007, 04:19 PM
So what? Spiderman lives in New York City and there were several incidents
in Spiderman stories based on real events that happened in New York City
and real people that live or lived in New York City.
That doesn't make Spiderman a real person.

Bob, you've got some work to do.

Bronco Bob
05-09-2007, 06:55 PM
i hope you see the fallacy in your logic.
even the most opposed to Jesus did not deny his existance. but rather they tried to explain his missing body.

1. if he didn't exist - you don't have to explain a missing body.
2. why would his biggest opposers even admit he was a person.

Other than the Bible, what documents from that time verify this?

And the Gospels themselves were written anywhere from 50 to 100 years
after these events were supposed to have transpired.

bronco_diesel
05-09-2007, 07:02 PM
Other than the Bible, what documents from that time verify this?

And the Gospels themselves were written anywhere from 50 to 100 years
after these events were supposed to have transpired.


you should look into josephus - a jewish historian who was not a follower of Jesus - even he did not deny the life of Christ.

it is also a fallacy to quickly discount the gospels because they are found in the Bible - thats quite an injustice to history.

if you work in the framwork of history - the gospels are separate writings by separate writers written approx 30 years after the account by eyewitnesses - it adds quite a bit of validity to the recorded account.

if you were to discount that truth, by your admission you cannot prove that george washington was the first elected president of the US.

Bronco Bob
05-09-2007, 07:10 PM
you should look into josephus - a jewish historian who was not a follower of Jesus - even he did not deny the life of Christ.

Not denying someone existed and having independent evidence showing
someone existed are two different things.

it is also a fallacy to quickly discount the gospels because they are found in the Bible - thats quite an injustice to history.

if you work in the framwork of history - the gospels are separate writings by separate writers written approx 30 years after the account by eyewitnesses - it adds quite a bit of validity to the recorded account.

Are there even any records from the Romans documenting the trial and execution? It would seem they would at least write something down about that.

if you were to discount that truth, by your admission you cannot prove that george washington was the first elected president of the US.

Is this a trick question? John Hanson was the first president of the United States, chosen in 1781.

bronco_diesel
05-09-2007, 07:12 PM
Other than the Bible, what documents from that time verify this?

And the Gospels themselves were written anywhere from 50 to 100 years
after these events were supposed to have transpired.

also you can look at:

the Talmud - explaining away the missing body

here is a list of non biblical writings that reference NT events:

Taticus - Roman author
Pliny the Younger - Roman Governor
Ignatius - Bishop of Antioch

bronco_diesel
05-09-2007, 07:19 PM
Not denying someone existed and having independent evidence showing
someone existed are two different things.

are you serious?


Are there even any records from the Romans documenting the trial and execution? It would seem they would at least write something down about that.

i'll investigate for ya - but that's really not going to be enough for ya, will it?


Is this a trick question? John Hanson was the first president of the United States, chosen in 1781.

unless i am mistaken, wasn't GW the first elected president? (not the first president)

BABronco
05-09-2007, 09:55 PM
you should look into josephus - a jewish historian who was not a follower of Jesus - even he did not deny the life of Christ.

it is also a fallacy to quickly discount the gospels because they are found in the Bible - thats quite an injustice to history.

if you work in the framwork of history - the gospels are separate writings by separate writers written approx 30 years after the account by eyewitnesses - it adds quite a bit of validity to the recorded account.

if you were to discount that truth, by your admission you cannot prove that george washington was the first elected president of the US.

Didn't Josephus go one farther and say that Jesus had a way of healing people, although he never believed him to be God?

Spider
05-09-2007, 10:10 PM
I think i saw the same story on a soap opera once ..........