Conspiracy Theory: Is Jay Cutler really just a pocket passer?

[watermock]

Here are my 2 cents: Teams completely clamped down on Jake's roll to the right antics.

Obviously the Talking Heads love to say he's more of a pocket passer...I would say he's more COMFORTABLE in the pocket. Hopefully teams will forget that throw to Walker that was well, Elwayesque.

I think will hold the rollouts in the back pocket a little. Cutler is perfectly capable of rolling out to either side, Plummer wasn't. Elway was. Jay IS. BTW, Cutler also ran the option in his freshman year starting at Vandy. He is also a willing runner, but he doesn't panic.

The only QB noticibly faster was Vince Young. Jay's 10 yard cone was considered in the 90th percentile for QB's. Considering he's 230, that's not too shabby.

I think Shanahan will pull the roll out at certain times this year, rather than use it as a crutch to mask a poor pocket passer. That doesn't mean Cutler can't roll out at all, or doesn't have the speed or power to pick up that first down. Flame away...guitly of Man-Crush again. I just think that teams won't be able to game plan containment like they started to do with Jake. When they shut that down, his productivity dropped dramatically.

[Beantown Bronco]

Cutler is perfectly capable of rolling out to either side, Plummer wasn't.

Huh? Plummer EXCELLED at rolling out to either side.

[Man-Goblin]

I don't think anyone has said he's strictly a pocket passer. It's pretty widely known that he can be very mobile if needed. The whole point in excentuating the fact that he CAN be a great pocket passer is that now the Broncos and Shanahan finally have their whole offensive arsenol at their disposal.

[Popps]

He looks very mobile to me, and sells the play-action pretty well for a kid.

[Crushaholic]

If Cutler's just a pocket passer, you'll never get Shanahan to admit it...

[Prodigal19]

Here are my 2 cents: Teams completely clamped down on Jake's roll to the right antics.

Obviously the Talking Heads love to say he's more of a pocket passer...I would say he's more COMFORTABLE in the pocket. Hopefully teams will forget that throw to Walker that was well, Elwayesque.

I think will hold the rollouts in the back pocket a little. Cutler is perfectly capable of rolling out to either side, Plummer wasn't. Elway was. Jay IS. BTW, Cutler also ran the option in his freshman year starting at Vandy. He is also a willing runner, but he doesn't panic.

The only QB noticibly faster was Vince Young. Jay's 10 yard cone was considered in the 90th percentile for QB's. Considering he's 230, that's not too shabby.

I think Shanahan will pull the roll out at certain times this year, rather than use it as a crutch to mask a poor pocket passer. That doesn't mean Cutler can't roll out at all, or doesn't have the speed or power to pick up that first down. Flame away...guitly of Man-Crush again. I just think that teams won't be able to game plan containment like they started to do with Jake. When they shut that down, his productivity dropped dramatically.
Are you kidding me? Thats pretty much the only thing that Plummer WAS good at. He was one of the best qbs ive seen at rolling out to either side.

[TheDave]

Cutler was recruited to most colleges as a safety, and he was an option QB at Vanderbelt. Mobility is NOT a problem.

[watermock]

Jake rolled right virtually every time unless he was running a naked bootleg. He could flip a pass to a TE or back, but he wasn't going to turn across his body and throw it 64 yards in perfect step. Or even 34 yards.

Jake rolled out blind to the left for some goal line TD's. Sorry. The fact is defenses started containing his rollouts to the RIGHT, where he could get his mediocre weight behind the throw.

[KipCorrington25]

I keep waiting for that torn rotator cuff he suffered early last year to raise it's ugly head.


Oh and he throws off his back foot too much, I broke down the film.

[DeuceOfClub]

What is the Conspiracy?

[watermock]

I keep waiting for that torn rotator cuff he suffered early last year to raise it's ugly head.


Oh and he throws off his back foot too much, I broke down the film.

Wrong and Wrong. He doesn't have a bad cuff, and the point was, Jake need two steps to crank up. Jay can pitch it just planting the back foot. Jake needed two steps, period. And no, he couldn't throw with any power rolling left. Everything went to the flat or an out.

[2KBack]

Wrong and Wrong. He doesn't have a bad cuff, and the point was, Jake need two steps to crank up. Jay can pitch it just planting the back foot. Jake needed two steps, period. And no, he couldn't throw with any power rolling left. Everything went to the flat or an out.

you're wrong about Jake, his big plays all came on roll outs, too both sides. Not to mention Jake had the odd reputation of having a stronger arm while throwing on the run, again to either side. Jakes arm was never the problem, it was his head. You're just currently blinded by lust.

Also, I've never heard anyone call Cutler just a pocket passer.

[Play2win]

As you can tell by my avi... CUTLER never leaves the pocket... ;D

[atomicbloke]

The only thing that this thread proves is that Mock can have some whacky perspectives.

In other words, no news.

[watermock]

First, it's talking heads that claim that, not the board, as I stated. Jake didn't have a strong arm rolling left. He would throw in the flat, or an intermeidate out, or run it in at the goal.

All his big plays came from roll outs? Did you even read my post? That's why teams started clamping down, especially on the offenses RIGHT SIDE. The LDE would take an outside route and he would start panicing.

Your missing the point completely. Teams can't do that with Jay. He can stand tall and run up the middle or pass, or he can roll any direction. Look, they always played Jake to the right of the offenses field of vision. You don't usually see LDE's completely abandoning the RT in passing downs like they did later in 06. It wasn't like they couldn't blow by Foster.

[watermock]

If you had bothered, the conspicacy is first, to fool opposing teams Cutler is just a pocket passer, and with tape, use it sparingly. In other words, LET other teams believe wrongly he's a pocket passer. We showed our hand too much with Jake.

And don't even tell me Jake could throw more than an intermediate out rolling left.

Second, the entire board who knew anything could tell that LDE's were basically forgetting Foster and playing contain. Jake became impotent. These are FACTS and I'm not the only one to see it.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Teams will be susceptible to Jay's roll out until he proves he can make plays out there consistently, assuming a run game exists, of course. Once he does, they'll do what they did against Jake--keep him inside and make him read defenses. This could be problematic at this early point in his career.

[Paladin]

I keep waiting for that torn rotator cuff he suffered early last year to raise it's ugly head.


Oh and he throws off his back foot too much, I broke down the film.

Oops. Mock doesn't take sarcasm too well when discussing his man-crush......

:~ohyah!:

Nice try, though......

[Beantown Bronco]

Teams will be susceptible to Jay's roll out until he proves he can make plays out there consistently, assuming a run game exists, of course. Once he does, they'll do what they did against Jake--keep him inside and make him read defenses. This could be problematic at this early point in his career.

This is where Daniel Graham will help quite a bit IMO. Not only does he block well for the running game, but his blocking skills will be instrumental in keeping that DE out of Cutler's face on roll outs to his side.

[watermock]

Cutler never had the chance to follow thru He set his back foot, to one step, and released with a DE bearing down. You could even call it one step.

I just walked thru a throwing motion personally. You set the back foot, then take the launch foot and follow thru with the second step. Cutler released that on one step if you discount the set foot. He never planted his back foot again on that throw.

Sarcasm and stupidity are two diffrent things.

The point is that I believe that Shanahan won't let teams try to box in Cutler, like they frustrated Jake. Defenses knew if they took away his right rollout, you could contain him, and he would have half the field.

Jay can still roll across his body and step forward on just his left foot after planting the right.

[Dagmar]

I feel that mock could probably have this conversation with beezer and it would go just as well.

[watermock]

This is where Daniel Graham will help quite a bit IMO. Not only does he block well for the running game, but his blocking skills will be instrumental in keeping that DE out of Cutler's face on roll outs to his side.

I'm thrilled will two TE's. Scheff got beefy but says he will trim up. We might be able to do some damage at the goal line this year with a fattened up Scheff, Graham and Henry.

I'm rather excited about this team honestly. NE and Indy are pretty scary tho.

[Atlas]

you're wrong about Jake, his big plays all came on roll outs, too both sides. Not to mention Jake had the odd reputation of having a stronger arm while throwing on the run, again to either side. Jakes arm was never the problem, it was his head. You're just currently blinded by lust.

Also, I've never heard anyone call Cutler just a pocket passer.

Jake could roll out either way and was very accurate. His QB rating outside the pocket was like 110 or something ridiculous.

I watched a few of the 06 games over again and Cutler looks very stiff in the pocket. I was expecting an Elway wannabe but he doesn't seem to really move that well or have a good feel for the pocket. The roll outs Cutler did well on but when he stood in the pocket and tried to scramble of move around he didn't do well.

[watermock]

For the last time, on the rare occasion he rolled left, it was often blind at the goal line, or to a RB or TE or a short out at the sideline.

[watermock]

I never said he was a decent pocket passer. I said they took away the rollout to the right.

[Cito Pelon]

Huh? Plummer EXCELLED at rolling out to either side.

Sure, seemed that way because he had so many problems identifying in the pocket. As much as I rag on Shanny, he did find a way to make Jake effective. And to ShanaKubiaks credit, the rest of the League imitated the rollouts as part of their passing O. What's the quote? "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".

[Odysseus]

Broncos are going towards towards more pocket passing and stretching the field long instead of wide. This will open things up for Travis Henry to knock down yards. The Tight Ends are going to be used the first time in years.

Cutler can scramble but the offense is going away from strong legs and more towards strong arm. The goal is to pass into single coverage and play the mismatch. Look for Scheffler to get his share no matter who is open.

Heimerdinger tried to start some of this with Plummer but MOST of it never took or couldn't be used thus fueling the NEED for Cutler. Plummer had reached his limit and the offensive direction was going forward whether he made the throws or not. Cutler is going to show a Broncos offense we have not seen in awhile. This is good. I'm tired of defenses teeing off on us.

Cutler has not had endure horrible defense meltdowns, years of crappy special teams play or an offense geared away from him. He gets a clean slate and a high expectation on the same plate. Perfect!

I think Cutler is going to surprise even his supporters. I hope this year is one that defines many years to come and that it is a very good one.

[watermock]

Thanks Tiger, that was my point. Teams were planning against the right rollout and it made Jake impotent.

All I was saying is now they can't plan against us either way now.

Jay isn't scared in the pocket, can roll out either way (for real) and tuck it and rumble up the middle ala the helecopter. Ok...hopefully. I still can't believe John didn't fumble that ball. His eyes were saucers and he made it by just a bit more than a football because he landed backwards!

[Wes Mantooth]

I never said he was a decent pocket passer. I said they took away the rollout to the right.

I have a conspiracy theory: This thread is so bad because you are covering up for your man crush of Plummer.

[cmhargrove]

Is the question here whether we want a "stand tall" QB like Peyton Manning or someone who runs around like Jake Plummer?

I'll take the Peyton Manning mold. Given that, it is the job of our entire offense to give him 5-6 seconds to work with. If things get tight, he can zing it on the slant routes. Cutler is Cutler, not Elway, not Plummer.

I still have nightmares of Peyton "standing tall" in the pocket the entire second half of our game last season. I hope Cutler is exactly in the same mold. I don't want him to be like Jake. Let him stand all he wants, as long as he demolishes the opposing defense.

[Rascal]

I never said he was a decent pocket passer. I said they took away the rollout to the right.

Well you realize who the RT was right? Answers that.

[Cito Pelon]

Broncos are going towards towards more pocket passing and stretching the field long instead of wide. This will open things up for Travis Henry to knock down yards. The Tight Ends are going to be used the first time in years.

Cutler can scramble but the offense is going away from strong legs and more towards strong arm. The goal is to pass into single coverage and play the mismatch. Look for Scheffler to get his share no matter who is open.

Heimerdinger tried to start some of this with Plummer but MOST of it never took or couldn't be used thus fueling the NEED for Cutler. Plummer had reached his limit and the offensive direction was going forward whether he made the throws or not. Cutler is going to show a Broncos offense we have not seen in awhile. This is good. I'm tired of defenses teeing off on us.

Cutler has not had endure horrible defense meltdowns, years of crappy special teams play or an offense geared away from him. He gets a clean slate and a high expectation on the same plate. Perfect!

I think Cutler is going to surprise even his supporters. I hope this year is one that defines many years to come and that it is a very good one.

Good post. Cut can implement most any passing O. Dude identifies, targets, delivers pretty quick from what I saw last year. Had some troubles identifying and delivering quickly to his second choice apparently, but that seems to be an emphasis at this point to the coaching staff. Dude didnt duck enough last year, I guess. He has some things to learn about self-preservation, I guess.

It's a fine line between being labeled a pussy and starting 16 games. I'm sure there will be posters here that label Cut a pussy if he tosses the ball away "too soon".

[Cito Pelon]

Is the question here whether we want a "stand tall" QB like Peyton Manning or someone who runs around like Jake Plummer?
I'll take the Peyton Manning mold. Given that, it is the job of our entire offense to give him 5-6 seconds to work with. If things get tight, he can zing it on the slant routes. Cutler is Cutler, not Elway, not Plummer.

I still have nightmares of Peyton "standing tall" in the pocket the entire second half of our game last season. I hope Cutler is exactly in the same mold. I don't want him to be like Jake. Let him stand all he wants, as long as he demolishes the opposing defense.

Yeah, that's always the question.

For the Dude, it's stand tall. That means the OL has to be 'The Wall'.

[Kaylore]

Two year option quarterback that finished his last two years as a drop back passer and was SEC offensive player of the year. Seems like he can do both just fine, though I think he'd rather pass than run.

[dbroncos31]

Is the question here whether we want a "stand tall" QB like Peyton Manning or someone who runs around like Jake Plummer?

I'll take the Peyton Manning mold. Given that, it is the job of our entire offense to give him 5-6 seconds to work with. If things get tight, he can zing it on the slant routes. Cutler is Cutler, not Elway, not Plummer.

I still have nightmares of Peyton "standing tall" in the pocket the entire second half of our game last season. I hope Cutler is exactly in the same mold. I don't want him to be like Jake. Let him stand all he wants, as long as he demolishes the opposing defense.
dude does your name stand for can mike hargrove? cause if it does, you rule man. he and bavasi are ruining the M's

[BroncoBuff]

I think Shanahan will call the roll out at certain times this year, rather than use it as a crutch to mask a poor pocket passer.

Good point.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Where is the proof that Plummer only bootlegged to this left on the goalline....that is just incredibly untrue, did you not watch broncos games...he had this really strange knack for throwing well while bootlegging left.

Shanahan will use Cutler similar to how he used Elway,. He'll move him around some but keep him in the pocket as well...they have similar games. They wont have to gimmick as much this season

[Cito Pelon]

Two year option quarterback that finished his last two years as a drop back passer and was SEC offensive player of the year. Seems like he can do both just fine, though I think he'd rather pass than run.

So your favorite Kuper better shine, I think he can hold is own. Hamilton at LG is the man that has failed in pass protect more often than not for the past 4 years. Who's there for competition? Holland's career has been at RG I believe. Eslinger, Myers, they were drafted as centers, so have no upside over Ben Hamilton. Ryan Harris?

The Dude better plan on getting rid of the ball fast this year. The left side of the OL is in flux to say the least.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

[QUOTE=Kaylore;1579618]Two year option quarterback that finished his last two years as a drop back passer and was SEC offensive player of the year. Seems like he can do both just fine, though I think he'd rather pass than run.

Hamilton at LG is the man that has failed in pass protect more often than not for the past 4 years. QUOTE]

Hamilton has been the Broncos top graded offensive lineman each of the last four years per Shanahan.

[Cito Pelon]

[QUOTE=Kaylore;1579618]Two year option quarterback that finished his last two years as a drop back passer and was SEC offensive player of the year. Seems like he can do both just fine, though I think he'd rather pass than run.

Hamilton at LG is the man that has failed in pass protect more often than not for the past 4 years. QUOTE]

Hamilton has been the Broncos top graded offensive lineman each of the last four years per Shanahan.

Well, no disrepect intended to you, but Shanny is full of crap sometimes.

[Kaylore]

So your favorite Kuper better shine, I think he can hold is own. Hamilton at LG is the man that has failed in pass protect more often than not for the past 4 years. Who's there for competition? Holland's career has been at RG I believe. Eslinger, Myers, they were drafted as centers, so have no upside over Ben Hamilton. Ryan Harris?

The Dude better plan on getting rid of the ball fast this year. The left side of the OL is in flux to say the least.
I'm not terribly worried about it. I think whoever wins at right guard will have worked hard to win the spot and we'll be good either way (though I think Kuper's the favorite). Lepsis is coming back and he'll have Harris backing him up. Pears and Meadows will fight our the right side. The one area I agree with you on is that Ben Hamilton will need to put on a lot of weight as he has had trouble in pass protection. If that area is still a problem we can find someone next season or have Harris move over as he can play left guard.

[dsmoot]

you're wrong about Jake, his big plays all came on roll outs, too both sides. Not to mention Jake had the odd reputation of having a stronger arm while throwing on the run, again to either side. Jakes arm was never the problem, it was his head. You're just currently blinded by lust.

Also, I've never heard anyone call Cutler just a pocket passer.

It was truly amazing that Jake actually threw better going to his left than he did standing in the pocket, even without pressure. I will never understand that. A real drop off in results occurred when teams starting being successful in containing the rollout.

[fontaine]

I know Plummer catches a lot of grief for failing last season even in his rollouts but a lot of that blame has to go on the running game. Tatum never got into his stride and as a result the DE/OLBs didn't have a whole lot to do in run support compared to years gone by so it was much easier to contain the rollout than before.

The same thing will apply to Jay. Our running game can't just be productive, it also has to be effective, especially on short yardage/red zone situations. That's going to make life easier for Cutler and in that respect I'm stoked that we added Daniel Graham who not only is going to make our two TE sets great but be a real menace on rushing downs.

I can't wait to see him seal the edge/clear a path and knock out some LBers!

:strong:

[Odysseus]

I know Plummer catches a lot of grief for failing last season even in his rollouts but a lot of that blame has to go on the running game. Tatum never got into his stride and as a result the DE/OLBs didn't have a whole lot to do in run support compared to years gone by so it was much easier to contain the rollout than before.

The same thing will apply to Jay. Our running game can't just be productive, it also has to be effective, especially on short yardage/red zone situations. That's going to make life easier for Cutler and in that respect I'm stoked that we added Daniel Graham who not only is going to make our two TE sets great but be a real menace on rushing downs.

I can't wait to see him seal the edge/clear a path and knock out some LBers!

:strong:

I can't wait until training camp reports. A lot of questions...

Defense: A lot of big questions.
Can our DB adjust to consistent man coverage or will they break down?
Can our DL maintain a consistent push on the front four? (Thomas?)
Can any of our pass rushers bring the heat all game long?
Can D.J. Make the switch to MLB?
Can our Safeties stay healthy and one of the young guys improve?

Offense:
Offensive line....a thousand questions.
Tight ends....another thousand questions.
Are we going to get back to actually running the ball on people?
Will our WR core standup this year or are we limited to just Javon?
Hopefully Jay realizes NFL as in Golf driving long doesn't score putting does.

I'd like to see Cutler execute a lot of short stuff in the pre season and show some mastery of the screen. Give us 9 flavors of shotgun and then run the ball for a first down just to show off. He will end up learning or the opposing DB will end up teaching him.

A lot of interesting questions.

[footstepsfrom#27]

If we don't get some big boy anchors up front who can create a legitimate pocket he'll be freakin' Fran Tarkenton.

[crazyhorse]

This is obviously a "flame bait" thread and deserves to be moved.

LOL

[chrisp]

If you look at the indy line, there are few big names (relatively speaking - there are some great players but it isn't what you'd call an 'all-star' line like KC had a few years back for example) and it isn't a particularly big one. Same with New England.

Yes its true that being bigger DOES help with pass-protection - exhibit A is the Philadelphia Eagles who have one of the biggest O-lines in the league (yes, man-for-man bigger even than the ravens i believe) which results in them being able to go down to third-string Qb and still be competitive, however the example of NEW England and Indy seems to clearly indicate that averaging just the right side of 300lbs provides the perfect balance in the modern game, of being big enough to protect, without losing the athleticism to run-block. I know we play a different style of run-blocking to those teams, but I think that NE and Indy benefit in the run game from having slightly more athletic linemen.

So, as we look at a greater emphasis on pocket-passing, I think that we are still looking at just a tweak to the line rather than a forklift upgrade.

In 2005 I was surprised how much difference replacing (the injured and sadly done) Dan Neil made to our interior running. Looking to this year I think that better tackle play (which is a certainty if Lepsis is back to full fitness, or maybeeven just from losing Foster) will make a massive difference to our pass-protection. Add to that i also expect better blocking from our Tight ends, halfbacks and fullbacks this year, which was a bigger factor last year than some people seem to think.

[BroncoFiend]

Jake rolled right virtually every time unless he was running a naked bootleg. He could flip a pass to a TE or back, but he wasn't going to turn across his body and throw it 64 yards in perfect step. Or even 34 yards.

Jake rolled out blind to the left for some goal line TD's. Sorry. The fact is defenses started containing his rollouts to the RIGHT, where he could get his mediocre weight behind the throw.

Jake couldn't throw across the field rolling out either direction, however there has been very few QBs EVER who could, which is why it was so remarkable that Elway did it so well.

Jake was great on the roll out and it helped his game because it cut the field in half for him.

I think Cutler will have no problem on rollouts at all, but he may struggle scrambling a bit. It certainly wasn't his strength in his limited play last year. Compared to Elway anyway who just had a natural knack for it.

[Spider]

As you can tell by my avi... CUTLER never leaves the pocket... ;D

Ha! that isnt Cutler in your Avy , that is the super fast real mobile Bubby Brister

[orange 4 life]

Jake rolled right virtually every time unless he was running a naked bootleg. He could flip a pass to a TE or back, but he wasn't going to turn across his body and throw it 64 yards in perfect step. Or even 34 yards.

Jake rolled out blind to the left for some goal line TD's. Sorry. The fact is defenses started containing his rollouts to the RIGHT, where he could get his mediocre weight behind the throw.

jake was MORE accurate on the rollout, and he was arguably the best EVER at throwing the ball (as a right hander) while rolling left.
hell, even the "experts" saw that.

teams took away his rollouts to BOTH sides, our line got pushed back a bit, and we had a qb uncomfortable in the pocket, getting too much pressure, and having too many passes batted down or getting away from him.
still, none of that is the point.

is cutler JUST a pocket passer? the answer is no.

will he be able to execute the boot as well as plummer? probably not, but he'll be able to do it well enough to have it likely be a part of most gameplans.
he's got the speed and strength to be able to execute it, so it will really just be a matter of comfort and performance.

heres to hoping he learned a thing or two in year one and can come out relatively comfortable in year two.
obviously he's the biggest unknown going into this season and while we're ALL excited with his talent, the question is how soon will that talent equate to wins on the field? give him some time.

[bronco militia]

[QUOTE=Big Guy;1579754][QUOTE=Cito Pelon;1579678]

Well, no disrepect intended to you, but Shanny is full of crap sometimes.


bwhahaha

shhhhhhhhhh

[Play2win]

Ha! that isnt Cutler in your Avy , that is the super fast real mobile Bubby Brister

My ASS... that was a screen capture from last year's Arizona game... ;D

[Spider]

My ASS... that was a screen capture from last year's Arizona game... ;D

LOL ..........

[Circle Orange]

He has decent mobility for what he needs. The main thing is to be ACCURATE while moving or it doesn't mean anything. I still think he's more of a pocket passer myself. Kinda like this:

65% pocket
35% mobile