"Character Issue" Guys

[Killericon]

Our recent off-season acquisitions, primarily our draft picks, have been been labeled "Character Issue" guys. Some amongst us have gone so far as to compare us with the Bengals.

Now, I just want to be sure of whom we're talking about here. So, I figured a thread was in order.

Can you guys go through our roster, find these players, and post them here, along with their transgressions? I'd like to get some sort of hold on how bad the problem is. Thanks.

[-Slap-]

Guys who get kicked right the **** off their football teams.

Thanks for this thread. Its hard to believe, but there are actually people on this board dense enough not to understand this simple concept.

[Kaylore]

Todd Sauerbrun - Substance abuse ( 2 strikes. ephedra, possibly steroids, loudmouth)
Marcus Thomas - Pot smoking and kicked off the team.
Jarvis Moss - Pot smoking
DJ Williams - DUI
Steven Harris - Beating up a guy outside a club.
Rod Smith - Domestic Violence (ex wife)
Brandon Marshall - Wrongful imprisonment (blocking a Taxi his girlfriend was in)
Travis Henry - Substance abuse (two strikes), Underage girl stuff
Gerard Warren - Substance abuse (cocaine)

I know there's more...

[Killericon]

Maybe if someone posted all the guys on another team. Maybe crazy or bob can do the Chiefs, just so we can get a comparison going.

[azbroncfan]

Todd Sauerbrun - Substance abuse (ephedra, possibly steroids, loudmouth)
Marcus Thomas - Pot smoking and kicked off the team.
Jarvis Moss - Pot smoking
DJ Williams - DUI
Steven Harris - Beating up a guy outside a club.
Rod Smith - Domestic Violence (ex wife)
Brandon Marshall - Wrongful imprisonment (blocking a Taxi his girlfriend was in)

I know there's more...

Didn't big money get in trouble smoking dope? Personally I don't smoke dope and also don't think it is that big of a deal.

Travis Henry- dope and underage girl.

[GonzoLays]

There is no problem. Football players are violent, unstable individuals who choose a career path similar to their real life issues. There is nothing more to be said about individuals who voluntarily subject their bodies to abuses that is abnormal, inhumane, and completely stupid.

Character issues? Who gives a flip. Just win ballgames. I don't remember ever caring so much about how a violent athlete conducts himself off the field. He hits people for a living for gods sakes!!

The problem with "character issues" revolves around the fact that fans want players to be Jekyll and Hyde: prince charming, good Samaritan, all around good guy off the field but a freaking wild animal on the field. It ain't happening, so everytime you hear about a player whooping somebodies ass unprovoked or getting caught with narcotics, just deal. Quit getting caught up in being the team with the fewest player arrests. That doesn't have **** to do with ****. You think Patriots fans care about who got arrested during their three championships in four year run? hell the **** no.

Is "character" having a team win four super bowls while roided up like the most revered dynasty in professional football like the 70's Steelers? Is that character? Are they looked down upon any less for their admittance of using performance enhancers? hell no. If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'.

**** it all, lets win ball games. I don't give a **** what they do off the field.

[Paladin]

A lot of "characters", huh?

[Kaylore]

Didn't big money get in trouble smoking dope? Personally I don't smoke dope and also don't think it is that big of a deal.

Travis Henry- dope and underage girl.

Yes, thank you.

[Killericon]

**** it all, lets win ball games. I don't give a **** what they do off the field.

Some of us do.

[GonzoLays]

Some of us do.


Why? Seriously. Why do you care?

[Killericon]

Why? Seriously. Why do you care?

I find it hard to root for a guy that I would avoid if I saw him in public, you know?

I mean, I still will, since they're Broncos, but I want my team to be made of good character guys.

Maybe it's because I'm a hockey fan. Hockey Players are mostly top-notch people.

[Eli_Cash]

The NFL is like any other business that employs humans.

Sometimes humans do some weird irrational things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Griffin_%28basketball%29

[GonzoLays]

I find it hard to root for a guy that I would avoid if I saw him in public, you know?

I mean, I still will, since they're Broncos, but I want my team to be made of good character guys.

Maybe it's because I'm a hockey fan. Hockey Players are mostly top-notch people.


Hockey players are top-notch people? If I could legally fight somebody every other day without any repercussions like hockey players, I would never get in fights outside of the sports, period. You can take out your aggression 80 times a year, no problem. Those SOBs fight all the time.

You must be kidding. Besides, hockey players are drunks or is that considered being top-notch guys?

[Killericon]

Hockey players are top-notch people? If I could legally fight somebody every other day without any repercussions like hockey players, I would never get in fights outside of the sports, period. You can take out your aggression 80 times a year, no problem. Those SOBs fight all the time.

You must be kidding. Besides, hockey players are drunks or is that considered being top-notch guys?

I don't want to turn this into a Hockey Player vs. Football players thread. I'm just going to say that if you count up all the run-ins with the law that occur with NHL players, and compare them to NFL players(Obviously, on average...there are many more NFL Players than NHL Players), I think you'd see the difference.

[GonzoLays]

I don't want to turn this into a Hockey Player vs. Football players thread. I'm just going to say that if you count up all the run-ins with the law that occur with NHL players, and compare them to NFL players(Obviously, on average...there are many more NFL Players than NHL Players), I think you'd see the difference.

Whatever the case, society demonizes a football player who gets in a fight (look no further than the Miami Hurricane fight this past season) but completely overlooks the fact the volatile, hot-tempered hockey players engage in fisticuffs on a daily basis. Why is that? Why is a brawl in baseball okay but it is national news when a NBA player dares to throw a punch? Why?

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Personally I don't smoke dope and also don't think it is that big of a deal.

.

The reason it is a big deal is that it is illegal, whether we agree or not. What's so hard for people to understand about that.

[Willynowei]

Todd Sauerbrun - Substance abuse ( 2 strikes. ephedra, possibly steroids, loudmouth)
Marcus Thomas - Pot smoking and kicked off the team.
Jarvis Moss - Pot smoking
DJ Williams - DUI
Steven Harris - Beating up a guy outside a club.
Rod Smith - Domestic Violence (ex wife)
Brandon Marshall - Wrongful imprisonment (blocking a Taxi his girlfriend was in)
Travis Henry - Substance abuse (two strikes), Underage girl stuff
Gerard Warren - Substance abuse (cocaine)

I know there's more...

Rod Smith is a ****ing punk

[Ugly Duck]

Brady Quinn's character issue:

http://www.withleather.com//ul/2774-haha.jpg

[azbroncfan]

The reason it is a big deal is that it is illegal, whether we agree or not. What's so hard for people to understand about that.

So is speeding, wearing seatbelts, and a list of other nit picky laws. My beliefs are if it isn't hurting or destroying other people and you know what you are doing to yourself then I don't have a problem with it.

[Atlas]

Guys who get kicked right the **** off their football teams.

Thanks for this thread. Its hard to believe, but there are actually people on this board dense enough not to understand this simple concept.

Shanny has said as much. He said there are a few huys on the team we don't know about that are on second chances and they are doing just fine.

[SoCalBronco]

Brady Quinn's character issue:

http://www.withleather.com//ul/2774-haha.jpg

haha....post that on a cleveland board!

[Ugly Duck]

haha....post that on a cleveland board!

Great idea! You know of one?

[Bob]

There is no problem. Football players are violent, unstable individuals who choose a career path similar to their real life issues. There is nothing more to be said about individuals who voluntarily subject their bodies to abuses that is abnormal, inhumane, and completely stupid.

Character issues? Who gives a flip. Just win ballgames. I don't remember ever caring so much about how a violent athlete conducts himself off the field. He hits people for a living for gods sakes!!

The problem with "character issues" revolves around the fact that fans want players to be Jekyll and Hyde: prince charming, good Samaritan, all around good guy off the field but a freaking wild animal on the field. It ain't happening, so everytime you hear about a player whooping somebodies ass unprovoked or getting caught with narcotics, just deal. Quit getting caught up in being the team with the fewest player arrests. That doesn't have **** to do with ****. You think Patriots fans care about who got arrested during their three championships in four year run? hell the **** no.

Is "character" having a team win four super bowls while roided up like the most revered dynasty in professional football like the 70's Steelers? Is that character? Are they looked down upon any less for their admittance of using performance enhancers? hell no. If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'.

**** it all, lets win ball games. I don't give a **** what they do off the field.

There comes a point when lack of character can tear up a team through bringing media distractions. The bling, bling folks like TO, Michael Irving, & Randy Moss were good ball players, but were hard for me to watch -- I want them to fail, because they are me-first guys on a TEAM. They want glory for themselves but dont care how it affects the team Kinda like some guys playing basketball who want huge numbers, never pass, and loose games because the only score they think of, are his own stats -- its like they signed up in a fantasy leauge of one.

I can deal with a pot smoker or two.

[ward63]

Travis Henry- dope and underage girl.

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Luckily his head's on striaght(well a lil bit) and he can do stuff like this now..

[Willynowei]

There comes a point when lack of character can tear up a team through bringing media distractions. The bling, bling folks like TO, Michael Irving, & Randy Moss were good ball players, but were hard for me to watch -- I want them to fail, because they are me-first guys on a TEAM. They want glory for themselves but dont care how it affects the team Kinda like some guys playing basketball who want huge numbers, never pass, and loose games because the only score they think of, are his own stats -- its like they signed up in a fantasy leauge of one.

I can deal with a pot smoker or two.

The problem with that comparison is that Football is a team sport. Basketball is ehh... somewhere between a teamsport and an individual sport, leaning more to the latter than the first.

[Odysseus]

You are only good as the problems that you overcome. A hero by definition overcomes a great obstacle. When a kid goes through juvenile hall he has a choice to get it right or continue downward.

Q: Are we above helping others?

Q: Are these Broncos players criminals? They certainly have a checkered past but is there indeed no forgiveness in this world? Have any of these players that we have listed apologized and paid there dues? Should we continue to remind them of their mistake or are they truly reformed?

Q: What is the right number of bad players a team should allow? How do you measure this? Should there be a points system? Is this like rat particulates on a pizza for example? At what point are we moral and wise?

Q: Is this a discussion to indentify which players could be potentially trouble or are we wanting just a list of any player whose ever done anything? If it is a discussion what opposing opinion are we willing to tolerate or have we decided what end result we want and that is that.

Q: Are we willing to expose ourselves detailing our own crimes or are we assuming that each of us is already among the forgiven and can, very much like our own media, just make up the ideal?

I don't think this is a thread about discussion. I think it's a conclusion waiting to bait an arguement from someone. You'll get none from me.

Enjoy your thread.

[bronco610]

You are only good as the problems that you overcome. A hero by definition overcomes a great obstacle. When a kid goes through juvenile hall he has a choice to get it right or continue downward.

Q: Are we above helping others?

Q: Are these Broncos players criminals? They certainly have a checkered past but is there indeed no forgiveness in this world? Have any of these players that we have listed apologized and paid there dues? Should we continue to remind them of their mistake or are they truly reformed?

Q: What is the right number of bad players a team should allow? How do you measure this? Should there be a points system? Is this like rat particulates on a pizza for example? At what point are we moral and wise?

Q: Is this a discussion to indentify which players could be potentially trouble or are we wanting just a list of any player whose ever done anything? If it is a discussion what opposing opinion are we willing to tolerate or have we decided what end result we want and that is that.

Q: Are we willing to expose ourselves detailing our own crimes or are we assuming that each of us is already among the forgiven and can, very much like our own media, just make up the ideal?

I don't think this is a thread about discussion. I think it's a conclusion waiting to bait an arguement from someone. You'll get none from me.

Enjoy your thread.

Well said!!!!:strong:

[footstepsfrom#27]

**** it all, lets win ball games. I don't give a **** what they do off the field.
I'm curious as to how far you feel you can take that. For example...does the story below fall into that caregory of things you wouldn't care about? Just for the sake of argument, if any of these players were considered high 1st round draft choices and they were available in the 7th round, would you draft them for the Broncos?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/11/national/main1790062.shtml

11-Year-Old Allegedly Gang Raped

Fresno Cops: Girl May Have Been Assaulted By Up To 8 College Football Players

(CBS/AP) Police said that more arrests have been made in a rape case involving an 11-year-old girl who may have been attacked by as many as eight college football players.

Two arrests have been made in the Saturday attack, and officials said they have identified six other players at Fresno City College as persons of interest.

The Fresno Bee reported that police had obtained statements from the six players, and that investigators were awaiting the analysis of evidence in the case, including DNA samples, before taking any action.

The players were driven to the Police Department by the coach of the Fresno football team, the newspaper said.

The alleged victim went to an apartment complex on Saturday night to visit an acquaintance, said police spokesman Jeff Cardinale. While she was inside one of the apartments, she allegedly was sexually assaulted multiple times by several men. The rape allegedly took place in apartments that house some Fresno City football players.

The girl fled the apartment and sought help from a couple on the street, who called police. She suffered no serious physical injuries, but was taken to a hospital for an examination and is now in the care of Child Protective Services.

Mackey Davis, 20, and Eddie Scott, 19, were arrested on suspicion of child molestation with a victim under 14 and oral copulation with a victim under 18. Both were being held on $100,000 bail.

"We're very much concerned about what's going on," Ned Doffoney, president of Fresno City College, said on Monday. "Right now we just want to look into what ties there are with the college and make sure that everyone's rights are being respected."

[Taco John]

This thread just took a turn for the wacky...

[footstepsfrom#27]

You are only good as the problems that you overcome. A hero by definition overcomes a great obstacle. When a kid goes through juvenile hall he has a choice to get it right or continue downward.

Q: Are we above helping others?

Q: Are these Broncos players criminals? They certainly have a checkered past but is there indeed no forgiveness in this world? Have any of these players that we have listed apologized and paid there dues? Should we continue to remind them of their mistake or are they truly reformed?

Q: What is the right number of bad players a team should allow? How do you measure this? Should there be a points system? Is this like rat particulates on a pizza for example? At what point are we moral and wise?

Q: Is this a discussion to indentify which players could be potentially trouble or are we wanting just a list of any player whose ever done anything? If it is a discussion what opposing opinion are we willing to tolerate or have we decided what end result we want and that is that.

Q: Are we willing to expose ourselves detailing our own crimes or are we assuming that each of us is already among the forgiven and can, very much like our own media, just make up the ideal?

I don't think this is a thread about discussion. I think it's a conclusion waiting to bait an arguement from someone. You'll get none from me.

Enjoy your thread.
This analogy is meaningless.

You might have a point if we were talking about a church offering forgiveness for prospective members. We're talking about a corporation and issues related to risk management...a 180 degree difference. Corporations hire people with the right skill set but screen for character issues as well, even including things like credit reports. No responsible corporation hires people without paying attention to criminal records, background checks, substance abuse issues, prior performance at other jobs, etc...corporations understand that taking unacceptable risks costs them money. They don't need to moralize by asking themselves soul searching questions about looking at their own lives, ascertaining issues of wisdom and forgiveness, etc...and nobody expects them to.

Why then would you expect NFL franchises to do this since they are also corporations? Do you think for one second that a company you were looking to hire with would not use information obtained on your personal character to exclude you from their company if it contained negative reports?

[Odysseus]

I provided no analogy. Those were called questions.

What corporate or NFL qualifications do you have that make uniquely qualified to detail your opinion as fact? Everyone on this boards knows the rules but what you do with them is remains my uncontested point. These are interpreted by different teams in the league. Let's assume that you are more qualified that us in lesser realists. Which team in the NFL today would you consider a paragon of right behavior? This is a question. Apparently you are incapable of answering questions. Let me rephrase this.

What would you like the Broncos to DO right now today?

Is there any trickery in this question? Don't be afraid. It is just a question.

[cmhargrove]

Brady Quinn's character issue:

http://www.withleather.com//ul/2774-haha.jpg

Who plays center in Cleveland? He might be getting a little nervous...

[Killericon]

You are only good as the problems that you overcome. A hero by definition overcomes a great obstacle. When a kid goes through juvenile hall he has a choice to get it right or continue downward.

Q: Are we above helping others?

Q: Are these Broncos players criminals? They certainly have a checkered past but is there indeed no forgiveness in this world? Have any of these players that we have listed apologized and paid there dues? Should we continue to remind them of their mistake or are they truly reformed?

Q: What is the right number of bad players a team should allow? How do you measure this? Should there be a points system? Is this like rat particulates on a pizza for example? At what point are we moral and wise?

Q: Is this a discussion to indentify which players could be potentially trouble or are we wanting just a list of any player whose ever done anything? If it is a discussion what opposing opinion are we willing to tolerate or have we decided what end result we want and that is that.

Q: Are we willing to expose ourselves detailing our own crimes or are we assuming that each of us is already among the forgiven and can, very much like our own media, just make up the ideal?

I don't think this is a thread about discussion. I think it's a conclusion waiting to bait an arguement from someone. You'll get none from me.

Enjoy your thread.

Sorry, I'm not trying to bait anyone. It's honest. There have been complaints about it, and I wanted to know why it's so bad. Seemed honest to me when I started it, at least...

[Mountain Bronco]

You people need to get off the high horse. Seriously, smoking dope is a misdemeanor in Colorado. Nothing more than a speeding ticket. Listing Marshal is ridiculous as those charges are likely to be droped. From most accounts he was simply trying to recover his property from her.

Rod Smith was charged with verbal harasment after the women admitted to lying about the incident which was over 8 years ago. Give me a break. Those of you with significant others no it is common to get in a heated verbal argument.

If you have never done anything wrong, then by all means cast a stone.

Bunch of idiots on this board. I hope you all have wings and halos

[Willynowei]

You people need to get off the high horse. Seriously, smoking dope is a misdemeanor in Colorado. Nothing more than a speeding ticket. Listing Marshal is ridiculous as those charges are likely to be droped. From most accounts he was simply trying to recover his property from her.

Rod Smith was charged with verbal harasment after the women admitted to lying about the incident which was over 8 years ago. Give me a break. Those of you with significant others no it is common to get in a heated verbal argument.

If you have never done anything wrong, then by all means cast a stone.

Bunch of idiots on this board. I hope you all have wings and halos

He speaks the truth. REP

[Steve Sewell]

I find it hard to root for a guy that I would avoid if I saw him in public, you know?

I mean, I still will, since they're Broncos, but I want my team to be made of good character guys.

Maybe it's because I'm a hockey fan. Hockey Players are mostly top-notch people.

LOL...they come off that way on camera because of the "culture" of the NHL...don't blame teammates, give credit to everyone but yourself, be as humble as possible.

In my opinion, Brett Hull and Jeremy Roenick are two of the biggest douchebags in professional sports. Todd Bertuzzi is another one that comes to mind. And there are a lot more like them only hockey doesn't get as much press as the other leagues.

[Steve Sewell]

Rod Smith was charged with verbal harasment after the women admitted to lying about the incident which was over 8 years ago. Give me a break. Those of you with significant others no it is common to get in a heated verbal argument.



If I had a dollar for every woman who has rescinded her claims in a domestic violence incident, I'd literally be a millionaire.

I still think Rod is a great guy, just a bad moment for him in his life that I'm sure he regrets.

[watermock]

There are several unwritten rules in professional sports. Stinky once or many times probably, said that if you have to HOLD to protect you QB, you do it. I would rather get a first and 20 than a second and 17 and a brain damaged QB.

Another is that if a pitcher beans your guy, the unwritten rule is next inning the opposing pitcher will bean the first man up to bat. This inevitably turns into a bench clearing brawl that very rarely results in any serious injury, but it's happened, but I can't remember a time that someone used a bat. I've seen it postured, but not used. It's probably happened tho.

Perhaps the strangest unwritten rule is the hockey fight when the refs grab a bag of popcorn and just watch. Players can get the hook but it's fairly rare. It might be time to crack down a bit on that tradition, but hockey is in enough trouble staying afloat.

The most comical unwritten law is that while Football players will put up a brave face and only clutch a knee when it's shredded, flopping and clutching a knee in soccer (which I refuse to call football) is standard practice. If they don't get a yellow flag, they are back in the game 99% of the time.

Let Shanny and especially Bates put the foot down and read the riot act the first second of training camp, and do it forcefully. In fact, I would have each new Bronco to meet individually for their own, then another in front of the whole team, and that we don't care what crap they got by with in college or with another team, that this is the Broncos. God dammit...the Broncos. We don't care what the standards WERE where you came from.

I don't care if people smoke pot, and I dont altho my son lit one up in Florida and I indulged. The stone cold fact is pot stays in fat and you will bet busted despite having a whizzinator handy, or waterbottle. It's against the rules. Some of these guys don't really have skill sets that would keep them out of trouble on the street. If you want to keep those fat paychecks comming, keep your nose clean. It's that simple.

Rant over.

[watermock]

Beezer seems to have invisible wings the way he can jump...but he's no angel...that's why he's named after a demon. Well, I guess Satan has his angels too.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I provided no analogy. Those were called questions.
Fair enough...but they're questions that don't apply to pro sports franchises or the fans who follow them. As fans I don't think we're obligated to equate the hiring of character risk players with how we view our own lives. We are not being paid millions to perform at a professional level and they are. On athletic grounds alone, it's obvious character matters both in the locker room and on the field, which is why it's a risk factor for success and why fans have a right to voice their views.
What corporate or NFL qualifications do you have that make uniquely qualified to detail your opinion as fact?
Who's stating opinion as fact? We're all stating opinions but I think it's obvious that this issue becomes different when we talk about Denver players instead of some other team's players. My opinion is that I'm tired of watching NFL players who are character issues, and given a choice would prefer we not bring them in.
What would you like the Broncos to DO right now today?
I like Shanny to stop taking on guys that are high risk, both from a medical standpoint or a character standpoint.

[watermock]

Sorry, some pot doesn't keep me from taking first round talent in the 4th round. He would of gone before any of our other picks including Moss.

[Odysseus]

Sorry, I'm not trying to bait anyone. It's honest. There have been complaints about it, and I wanted to know why it's so bad. Seemed honest to me when I started it, at least...

My apologies as well. You are a good poster. I hope that you get your question answered however that answer comes.

On a football team I would have a Slap, a Footsteps, a CMHargrove, a Willynowei, A Broncos 610, and a Mountain Bronco because the differences is what make you better not similarities. What makes this board strong IS the fact there are so many different people posting here. I don't have to get along with a Footsteps online to know he's a Broncos fan. The same goes with the Broncos as a team.

In my life I don't walk around any man but every pride has it's price. I think Shanahan took a calculated risk and he's doing the right thing for the team. I think Taco John hit the nail on the head. Bowlen is on most of the boards that create the NFL legislation. What makes anyone think that Shanahan does not know the rules, risk or consequences? It's not a matter of loyalty to Shanahan as much as common sense.

Quote:Footstepsfrom #27
What would you like the Broncos to DO right now today?
I like Shanny to stop taking on guys that are high risk, both from a medical standpoint or a character standpoint.

Shanahan is a winner because he takes risks. You and I are upset with some of the stupid mistakes that were made in the past but in the world of an NFL coach 5 years is a lifetime. It was 5 years ago or better for most of the mistakes that Shanahan has made. It was hard during 1999 - 2002. Thos were BAD years. Since 2003 Mike Shanahan has completely improved how he goes to market and it's been a long time since he's had any major blunders on personnel.

This thread is yours guys. I'm out. Peace.

[GonzoLays]

I'm curious as to how far you feel you can take that. For example...does the story below fall into that caregory of things you wouldn't care about? Just for the sake of argument, if any of these players were considered high 1st round draft choices and they were available in the 7th round, would you draft them for the Broncos?



Ha, half of our ELECTED leaders are pedophiles, especially those pesky, child molesting republicans. What can you do?

Football is an escape, a release for me. I just want to watch my favorite team whoop ass for three hours a night. I truly dont' give a damn about their past transgressions and night habits. What does that have to do with me? Not a damn thing.

You might care about what Selvin Young did three years at a party, but I don't.

And as far as your question is concerned, I highly doubt ANY team would draft a convict who did prison time for raping an 11 year old girl.

[Atlas]

Ha, half of our ELECTED leaders are pedophiles, especially those pesky, child molesting republicans. What can you do?

Football is an escape, a release for me. I just want to watch my favorite team whoop ass for three hours a night. I truly dont' give a damn about their past transgressions and night habits. What does that have to do with me? Not a damn thing.

You might care about what Selvin Young did three years at a party, but I don't.

And as far as your question is concerned, I highly doubt ANY team would draft a convict who did prison time for raping an 11 year old girl.

I really could care less about pot charges. The three things I hate in players are
#1. Hitting or abusing women, The occassional shove is OK but don't slap, punch or throw her. {Lawerence Phillips}
#2 Stealing. This is a big red flag, once a crook always a crook.
#3. Being a bad teammate and repeatedly violating team policy. {TO}
#4. Repeated drunk driving arrests. One is ok just don't kill anyone. If you haven't learned after the first one than you are a problem. {Leanord Little}

[footstepsfrom#27]

And as far as your question is concerned, I highly doubt ANY team would draft a convict who did prison time for raping an 11 year old girl.
So does that mean if you were a GM you wouldn't draft one of these guys?

[DenverBrit]

Is this a good time to remind everyone that the city of Denver is 'Pot friendly'? ;D

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

[QUOTE=Atlas;1577681]I
#3. Being a bad teammate and repeatedly violating team policy. {TO}
QUOTE]

Marcus Thomas???

[watermock]

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=3686&dateline=1177658941

Take him out of his misery with some nice mango sauce on the side.

http://www.luxuryweb.com/assets/images/autogen/a_Aioli_Magret_Duck02.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqCcSc-se24

[Meck77]

Guys who get kicked right the **** off their football teams.

Thanks for this thread. Its hard to believe, but there are actually people on this board dense enough not to understand this simple concept.


Getting kicked off a team. I'd equate that simple concept to getting fired from a job. Anyone here ever been fired from a job? I seriously doubt it as we are all perfect here. No orangemaner would ever disagree with their boss, get a DUI, smoke weed, or have an arguement with their girlfriend.

Listen I'm not defending all the past actions of our players but if we are going to be critical of them lets list all our "character flaws" first.

Who wants to start?

[Northman]

There is no problem. Football players are violent, unstable individuals who choose a career path similar to their real life issues. There is nothing more to be said about individuals who voluntarily subject their bodies to abuses that is abnormal, inhumane, and completely stupid.

Character issues? Who gives a flip. Just win ballgames. I don't remember ever caring so much about how a violent athlete conducts himself off the field. He hits people for a living for gods sakes!!

The problem with "character issues" revolves around the fact that fans want players to be Jekyll and Hyde: prince charming, good Samaritan, all around good guy off the field but a freaking wild animal on the field. It ain't happening, so everytime you hear about a player whooping somebodies ass unprovoked or getting caught with narcotics, just deal. Quit getting caught up in being the team with the fewest player arrests. That doesn't have **** to do with ****. You think Patriots fans care about who got arrested during their three championships in four year run? hell the **** no.

Is "character" having a team win four super bowls while roided up like the most revered dynasty in professional football like the 70's Steelers? Is that character? Are they looked down upon any less for their admittance of using performance enhancers? hell no. If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'.

**** it all, lets win ball games. I don't give a **** what they do off the field.


Unfortuantely, NFL players are investments. Football organizations pour money into these athletes and expect them to be there 100% to fullfill their obligations.

[Meck77]

Unfortuantely, NFL players are investments. Football organizations pour money into these athletes and expect them to be there 100% to fullfill their obligations.

So does every small business owner. It may be on a small scale but with every new employee there are costs/investments involved and they are expected to be there 100% to fullfill their obiligations.

I'm starting to see the double standard we uphold our football players to and not ourselves.

[Kaylore]

I'm starting to see the double standard we uphold our football players to and not ourselves.
I think we are really good a judging others and never holding the fire to ourselves.

[Northman]

So does every small business owner. It may be on a small scale but with every new employee there are costs/investments involved and they are expected to be there 100% to fullfill their obiligations.

I'm starting to see the double standard we uphold our football players to and not ourselves.

I never said it didnt apply to small business. Nearly pointing out the obvious.

[Odysseus]

So does every small business owner. It may be on a small scale but with every new employee there are costs/investments involved and they are expected to be there 100% to fullfill their obiligations.

I'm starting to see the double standard we uphold our football players to and not ourselves.

I'm glad the league is getting focused on get tough policies and they are going to get rid of bad elements quickly. The Broncos family realize that the fans trust is riding on this decision and if they drop the ball the price is more than money. Credibility is VERY HARD to redeem. There is a balance and a risk. I like all of their picks. It was a really smart draft. They were lucky to get Moss. They were lucky to get Thomas. I am personally thankful.

It's hard to find people to trust in business. As a business enterprise these players know that if they lose this shot with the Broncos means they are out of a WHOLE lot of money. If they have contingency clauses there is no prayer of them making back the money they think is due unless they stay out of Mike Shanahan's dog house.

Short leash? If they get a bad dream of them doing wrong they better wake up, call Mike Shanahan and apologize.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I think we are really good a judging others and never holding the fire to ourselves.
Fans have a right to expect players conduct themselves with decency soley apart from personal moral standards even if it's only based on the grounds that suspensions hurt the team and reduce chances for a winning season, which is what they're paying for when they buy tickets or support the team with purchases of memorabilia, etc...the expectaions of winning. So personal morals are not relevant since these players have a fiduciary responsibility to their teams and hence by extention, to their stakeholders as well. Fans have no such relationship to the goal of winning games.

Second, You're assuming that people who want some higher standards for conduct and character aren't holding themselves to high standards also without knowing that. However, even if such is the case, a double standard is not only acceptable, it's an essential part of life. Some examples...

I hold my physician to a higher standard than than myself when I go to the doctor because he's been to medical school and I haven't, which is why I'm there in the first place.

I fly about once a month...and I hold the pilots to a higher standard than me since I'm not a licensed commercial airline pilot and I'm not ready to die just yet.

I hold my kids to a higher standard than I hold the neighbors kids to because they're my responsibility and I know the values they've been taught and the way they've been raised.

I hold ministers to a higher standard because I expect them to take seriously the vows they took before God to lead people spiritually by example.

I hold my wife to a higher standard than someone elses wife because I know her character and choose to be impacted by her choices.

I hold my CPA to a higher standard because I don't want to get in trouble with the IRS.

I hold my step daughter's boyfriend to higher standards than other girls boyfriends because I don't wish to go to jail for shooting him and burying his body in the desert.

I hold my children's school teachers to a higher standarad than other teachers because my kids future's are impacted by their examples and their abilities.

I hold politicians to higher standards because they're supposed to be leaders.

I hold myself to a higher standard because I have control of my choices and I believe I'll answer for those choices some day.

[Breck Bronc]

LOL...they come off that way on camera because of the "culture" of the NHL...don't blame teammates, give credit to everyone but yourself, be as humble as possible.

In my opinion, Brett Hull and Jeremy Roenick are two of the biggest douchebags in professional sports. Todd Bertuzzi is another one that comes to mind. And there are a lot more like them only hockey doesn't get as much press as the other leagues.Exactly. The NHL should be thankful that its lower profile than the NFL, NBA and MLB has kept big off the ice stories out of the American press.

Nobody in this country knows about Joe Sakic's appearance in a Stop Snitchin' video, Ilya Kovalchuk's 66-pit bull dog fighting kennel, Paul Kariya's involvment in a Las Vegas strip club melee and subsequent year-long suspension for off the ice transgressions, Marian Hossa killing his girlfriend's dog, the 9 Columbus Blue Jackets arrested in the past year, Joe Thornton's arrest for domestic violence, J.S. Gigeure's felony drug charges for selling prescription medicine to make "lean", the list goes on and on.

[x123z]

The traits that make a good football player often lead to trangressions.

[GonzoLays]

So does that mean if you were a GM you wouldn't draft one of these guys?

Did they serve prison time?

[footstepsfrom#27]

Did they serve prison time?
Case hasn't been tried yet...but eye witnesses called police while the assault was still in progress. Assume they have not served time and somehow got off but it's pretty apparent they did it. Would you draft one of them?