Steven Harris = more character issues

[Hoosier Bronco]

Steven Harris, DT, Florida: Beat a man unconscious in 2003 outside a Gainesville night club and missed fall camp and three games with a suspension. Pled no contest to misdemeanor battery and agreed to six months probation, anger management classes and restitution because the man lost a tooth and needed 11 stitches and other medical expenses paid. Had a warrant issued for failing to pay a $258 fine on two citations of driving with a revoked license. Suspended from the team for unspecified reasons for good in spring, 2006.

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/n...FT2_S1.article



*****Haven't seen this, it is was posted, my apologies. With Q. Echols out there (obviously a feel good story), why do we go with a guy who has these character issues. Didn't we get enough of that in the draft. I know there is no risk here, but WTF.

[Rohirrim]

That's just friggin' peachy. :oyvey:

[elsid13]

Well at least he only a UDFA and isn't a draft choice.

[plummershelper]

Dang Echols signing with Indy. I thought he'd be a good fit here.

[TheDave]

Not excusing his behaviour, but it's kind of difficult to get real pissed off at a 19 year old kid for getting into a fight.

Guess all we can do is hope he is more mature now. If not, he didn't cost us anything

[Drek]

Anyone else think this kid getting a "shot" is half about sending home a message to Moss and Thomas that lots of people get cut, don't give us a reason to make you one of them?

[cabronco]

I guess this shows how desperate Shanny & Co. are at revamping the D-line. Shanahan's response would be, he either gets his **** together or he's gone. With the new Commissioner there's not much room for error.

[Tredici]

I think we can activate him for the KC game and he can put a whuppin on dey azz...

(Posting that is one of my character issues.)

[chaz]

i couldnt believe it when i saw that echols signed with indy....WHY?! i thought he'd really want to come to denver and after he didnt get drafted it would just be a formality....guess not....

[vancejohnson82]

Ok, this might sound like the complete optimistic POV but lets just take a few things into consideration

Football players....everywhere....are always targets when they are out...this is why coaches HATE their players going to clubs or hanging out in public....there are always guys out at these places that want to take on the "big man on campus" and prove themselves to have larger testicles than the men they watch on Saturday...perhaps this was one of those cases, and Harris could not say "no" to a fight...maybe the anger management classes were the right punishment for once

The driving with a revoked license is not that big of a deal...stupid, but not malicious

Give him a shot to prove his worth and to grow up and then we will make judgements on his character

[CHANGSTER]

Anyone else think this kid getting a "shot" is half about sending home a message to Moss and Thomas that lots of people get cut, don't give us a reason to make you one of them?

Yeah thats my theory, He'll be a minute late to practice one day and snip.
"you two see what happened to your buddy?" Watch it!

[Paladin]

It's about time this team gets players with character. I mean, the days of the "nice guy" or "great sportsmen" are limited. We want players with a mean streak. Guys who will not shirk from a little confrontation. Like that "bust them in the mouth" thing, only with real weight behind the words. Like about 325 lbs. GO BULLIES!!!!!! Bowlen will get them out of the pokey on Sunday mornings so they can play that afternoon.

By George, I think the whole idea is to terrorize the League. Get in there and scare the h3ll out of them, I say. Hide the women and children. Open the bars and strip joints so they can have a little R&R between games and stints at the jailhouse.

The women at the joints will likely look like the avatars on the Mane, half clothed, ravenous and rapacious, and striking seductive poses with ample views of various portions of the appropriate feminine anatomical features. Good entertainment for our new characters.

We can all click our tongues, lick our lips and think: SUPER BOWL!!!!!

Remember: Big bullies with Character make better D Linemen and Offensive Guards!!!!!


Hallelujah!!!!!!!

[Florida_Bronco]

Not excusing his behaviour, but it's kind of difficult to get real pissed off at a 19 year old kid for getting into a fight.

Guess all we can do is hope he is more mature now. If not, he didn't cost us anything

If it was a fight and not an unprovoked attack (I have no clue which way it happened) then yes, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[worm]

What is hilarious to me is that this guy was let back on the Gator squad...yet MT was booted off for good.

He lived up to the commitment of his reinstatement, unlike Marcus. Which makes me feel better about giving him a look.

In fact, he stepped up and play very well when he took Marcus's spot.

[KipCorrington25]

We shouldn't of signed this guy, I'll be hoping for him to get cut.

[NaptownChief]

i couldnt believe it when i saw that echols signed with indy....WHY?! i thought he'd really want to come to denver and after he didnt get drafted it would just be a formality....guess not....


He wants to play for a champion....who wouldn't?

[BroncoInferno]

Eh, it an undrafted FA, most likely camp fodder.

[Hoosier Bronco]

What is hilarious to me is that this guy was let back on the Gator squad...yet MT was booted off for good.

He lived up to the commitment of his reinstatement, unlike Marcus. Which makes me feel better about giving him a look.

In fact, he stepped up and play very well when he took Marcus's spot.



He hasn't played for two years according to yahoo. Not sure who you are thinking of.

Game Log

2006 Season - Tackles Sacks Interceptions Misc
Date Opponent Score Assists Tackles Sack Int Yds IntTD IntTD FRec PD
Sep 02 Southern Miss W 34-7 Did Not Play
Sep 09 UCF W 42-0 Did Not Play
Sep 16 @Tennessee W 21-20 Did Not Play
Sep 23 Kentucky W 26-7 Did Not Play
Sep 30 Alabama W 28-13 Did Not Play
Oct 07 LSU W 23-10 Did Not Play
Oct 14 @Auburn L 17-27 Did Not Play
Oct 28 Georgia W 21-14 Did Not Play
Nov 04 @Vanderbilt W 25-19 Did Not Play
Nov 11 South Carolina W 17-16 Did Not Play
Nov 18 Western Carolina W 62-0 Did Not Play
Nov 25 @Florida State W 21-14 Did Not Play
Dec 02 Arkansas W 38-28 Did Not Play
Jan 08 @Ohio State W 41-14 Did Not Play

2005 Season - Tackles Sacks Interceptions Misc
Date Opponent Score Assists Tackles Sack Int Yds IntTD IntTD FRec PD
Sep 03 Wyoming W 32-14 Did Not Play
Sep 10 Louisiana Tech W 41-3 Did Not Play
Sep 17 Tennessee W 16-7 Did Not Play
Sep 24 @Kentucky W 49-28 Did Not Play
Oct 01 @Alabama L 3-31 Did Not Play
Oct 08 Mississippi State W 35-9 Did Not Play
Oct 15 @LSU L 17-21 Did Not Play
Oct 29 Georgia W 14-10 Did Not Play
Nov 05 Vanderbilt W 49-42 Did Not Play
Nov 12 @South Carolina L 22-30 Did Not Play
Nov 26 Florida State W 34-7 Did Not Play
Jan 02 Iowa W 31-24 Did Not Play

2004 Season - Florida Tackles Sacks Interceptions Misc
Date Opponent Score Assists Tackles Sack Int Yds IntTD IntTD FRec PD
Sep 11 Eastern Michigan W 49-10 1 4 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Sep 18 @Tennessee L 28-30 1 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Sep 25 Kentucky W 20-3 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Oct 02 Arkansas W 45-30 Did Not Play
Oct 09 LSU L 21-24 Did Not Play
Oct 16 Middle Tennessee W 52-16 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0
Oct 23 @Mississippi State L 31-38 1 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Oct 30 @Georgia L 24-31 1 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Nov 06 @Vanderbilt W 34-17 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Nov 13 South Carolina W 48-14 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Nov 20 @Florida State W 20-13 Did Not Play
Dec 31 Miami (FL) L 10-27 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

2003 Season - Florida Tackles Sacks Interceptions Misc
Date Opponent Score Assists Tackles Sack Int Yds IntTD IntTD FRec PD
Aug 30 San Jose State W 65-3 Did Not Play
Sep 06 @Miami (FL) L 33-38 Did Not Play
Sep 13 Florida A&M W 63-3 Did Not Play
Sep 20 Tennessee L 10-24 Did Not Play
Sep 27 @Kentucky W 24-21 Did Not Play
Oct 04 Mississippi L 17-20 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Oct 11 @LSU W 19-7 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Oct 18 @Arkansas W 33-28 Did Not Play
Nov 01 Georgia W 16-13 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Nov 08 Vanderbilt W 35-17 Did Not Play
Nov 15 @South Carolina W 24-22 Did Not Play
Nov 29 Florida State L 34-38 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Jan 01 Iowa L 17-37 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0


ADVERTISEMENT




http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/players/90516/gamelog

[Hoosier Bronco]

Eh, it an undrafted FA, most likely camp fodder.

If he is camp fodder, why bother........I think it has been proven that UDFA's are not fodder. Many examples of guys that have made the squad after not being drafted.

[Popps]

Steven Harris, DT, Florida: Beat a man unconscious in 2003 outside a Gainesville night club and missed fall camp and three games with a suspension. Pled no contest to misdemeanor battery and agreed to six months probation, anger management classes and restitution because the man lost a tooth and needed 11 stitches and other medical expenses paid. Had a warrant issued for failing to pay a $258 fine on two citations of driving with a revoked license. Suspended from the team for unspecified reasons for good in spring, 2006.

You know, I've been complaining about the ATL (All Thug League) too long. It's time we start having some fun with it.

The game is called...

NFL or Prison?

I give you a rap sheet, and you have to guess if this is someone locked up in a correctional facility, or someone making a huge salary playing in the NFL.

Here's we go. The clue is...

burglary and grand theft (both felonies) and vandalism (a misdemeanor) for allegedly breaking into the apartment of a friend in mid-May and stealing $1,700 in electronics.



Incarcerated street thug or NFL player?

Anyone?

[Garcia Bronco]

You know, I've been complaining about the ATL (All Thug League) too long. It's time we start having some fun with it.

The game is called...

NFL or Prison?

I give you a rap sheet, and you have to guess if this is someone locked up in a correctional facility, or someone making a huge salary playing in the NFL.

Here's we go. The clue is...

burglary and grand theft (both felonies) and vandalism (a misdemeanor) for allegedly breaking into the apartment of a friend in mid-May and stealing $1,700 in electronics.



Incarcerated street thug or NFL player?

Anyone?


Who is an NFL player?

[Hoosier Bronco]

You know, I've been complaining about the ATL (All Thug League) too long. It's time we start having some fun with it.

The game is called...

NFL or Prison?

I give you a rap sheet, and you have to guess if this is someone locked up in a correctional facility, or someone making a huge salary playing in the NFL.

Here's we go. The clue is...

burglary and grand theft (both felonies) and vandalism (a misdemeanor) for allegedly breaking into the apartment of a friend in mid-May and stealing $1,700 in electronics.



Incarcerated street thug or NFL player?

Anyone?



NFL Player -- AJ Nicholson

[worm]

He hasn't played for two years according to yahoo. Not sure who you are thinking of.



Yahoo is wrong. Harris stepped it up over the last couple of games of the season. He was in the BCS game playing well....and he also was in on one of the Jarvis blocked kicks.

Here is one article talking about him taking over for Marcus.

http://www.alligator.org/pt2/specials/glendale/championship/070107thomas.html

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. - Not even Urban Meyer gave UF much of a chance following Marcus Thomas' dismissal.

"At a lot of places, you take away a player like Marcus and you're in reverse," Meyer said.

But what the coach of the No. 2 Gators has found out during the past two months is this: UF is just fine without the defensive tackle. The Gators' retooled rush defense is No. 1 in the Southeastern Conference and No. 5 nationally as it prepares for Ohio State in the national championship.

"We knew we wouldn't miss a beat," said converted nose guard Steven Harris. "We didn't think it was going to be a problem at all."

On Nov. 4, skeptics would have laughed at such a notion and for good reason. On the same day the Gators struggled against Vanderbilt, the team announced it would play the remainder of its season without Thomas.

The senior tackle recorded five sacks and 26 tackles in limited action while serving as the line's undisputed leader. But he was suspended a total of three games after testing positive for marijuana twice. When Thomas refused to comply with strict post-suspension guidelines, the Gators kicked him off the team.

Surprisingly, there has been no drop off. The reasons? Harris and fellow tackle Joe Cohen.

Lately, the two have played the best football of their careers. Harris and Cohen have combined for 15 tackles the last two games, highlighted by a stifling effort against Arkansas Heisman Trophy finalist, tailback Darren McFadden, in the SEC Championship Game.

"They stepped up when they had to," linebacker Brandon Siler said. "It's big what our team has accomplished up front. We've shut down a lot of running games. A guy that was up for the Heisman - we held him to (73) yards. It would be hard to believe that our defense would be as good as it is knowing that we lost one of our best linemen."

Despite playing without Thomas for eight games, the Gators only surrendered 74.5 rushing yards a game. Contrast that to LSU, which was No. 2 in the SEC with a clip of 93.2 yards per game before Wednesday night's Sugar Bowl.

Give Siler an assist for the seamless transition. Seeing that some of his teammates were down following Thomas' departure, he imparted upon them a heavy dose of optimism.

"I talked to them and I was like, 'We all right. It's all right. We have to deal with what we have to deal with,'" Siler recalled. "I went up to Steve and I said, 'Everybody's sad and real upset, Steve, but let me check this out and see if we're all right - Can you play football?' He answered, 'Yeah, I can play.' So then I said, 'All right, we'll be fine.'"

Harris has filled in for Thomas directly at nose guard. Cohen, meanwhile, has simply excelled at the tackle spot he had held all along. The two say the reason they haven't missed Thomas has everything to do with playing time.

"The more you can get in against an opponent, the more you can get a feel for the game and that's all it was for Steve and me," Cohen said. "It was hard to get into a rhythm with all the rotating we were doing so Marcus could play."

By remaining on the field for extended stretches, Cohen and Harris have been able to notice - and take advantage of - tendencies in opposing linemen. This had been impossible with the minimal playing time they were getting while Thomas was playing.

"They deserve it," defensive lineman Ray McDonald said. "(Cohen and Harris have) been through a lot since they've gotten here, just like all of us. They deserve to get on the field and show everybody what they can do."

[Los Broncos]

Sounds like roid rage to me.

[Popps]

NFL Player -- AJ Nicholson

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: !Booya! !Booya! !Booya!


He nails it!!!! Nice job.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Steven Harris, DT, Florida: Beat a man unconscious in 2003 outside a Gainesville night club and missed fall camp and three games with a suspension. Pled no contest to misdemeanor battery and agreed to six months probation, anger management classes and restitution because the man lost a tooth and needed 11 stitches and other medical expenses paid. Had a warrant issued for failing to pay a $258 fine on two citations of driving with a revoked license. Suspended from the team for unspecified reasons for good in spring, 2006.
I guess assault and battery is now a missdemeanor...he didn't get kicked off the team for that but he did for something else? ??? What did he do...stomp a couple old ladies to death and steal their social security checks?

No worries...we desperately needed a thuggish scrub lineman with no chance to make the team...besides I'm sure Mike had a nice long talk with him first. ;D

[Popps]

O.K... one more....


Last month, XXXXXX was charged with assaulting his wife at the couple's home in XXXXXX after XXXXXXX was treated for three stitches above her left eye at a local hospital.

Now, this is a tough one... because it could just about be anyone in the NFL, OR any dude running a meth lab in Ojai.

Well... inmate or NFL player? (Extra credit if you can guess which one.)

[Popps]

O.K.... big hint here, the "man" in question here punched his wife so hard in the face, she needed stitches above her eye.... and he did it on Valentine's Day. (HUGE hint.)

Well, crack-dealing gangster or NFL player?

[BroncoInferno]

If he is camp fodder, why bother........I think it has been proven that UDFA's are not fodder. Many examples of guys that have made the squad after not being drafted.

Sure, there are examples. Sometimes one, maybe two stick...the vast majority never make the team. If he plays well enough to make the team, we could use the depth.

[Hoosier Bronco]

O.K.... big hint here, the "man" in question here punched his wife so hard in the face, she needed stitches above her eye.... and he did it on Valentine's Day. (HUGE hint.)

Well, crack-dealing gangster or NFL player?


I like this game.......

Samari Rolle???

[-Slap-]

Why even bother with these threads anymore? It would actually be more newsworthy if Shanahan brought someone in who wasn't a future participant in Goodell's thug program.

[CBF1]

I guess you can't say he will not play with a mean streak. I prefer my D lineman to have a bit of a "tude"

[Hoosier Bronco]

Sure, there are examples. Sometimes one, maybe two stick...the vast majority never make the team. If he plays well enough to make the team, we could use the depth.

Bell, Burton, Clark, Vaughn from last year. All I am saying is we shouldn't dismiss these signings....I want to win, but in my opinion, the questionable character issue is getting out of hand.

[Hoosier Bronco]

Why even bother with these threads anymore? It would actually be more newsworthy if Shanahan brought someone in who wasn't a future participant in Goodell's thug program.


Exactly.......I want to be proud of the team I root for. Maybe my expectations aren't realistic anymore.......or too innocent or naive. I don't know.

[-Slap-]

Odds are he beat the crap out of someone he outweighed by 50 to 150 pounds.

[Paladin]

Which way is it getting out of hand? I cannot believe the number of people who are clucking their tongues over "character issues". That covers a hella lot of territory, and condemns everyone, including the pornographers on this Board.... I would rather that we trust Shanahan to make some sort of adult judgment about these guys and maybe - just maybe - he knows something about what he is doing.

The tactic of shouting "THE SKY IS FALLING" is short sighted, hypocritical and insulting of the Broncos' FO. You want a Dline or a player with a 'tude? But you want only the "nice guys" who do not threaten some intangible, undefined and dubious standard of "Character". I think the term "Behavioral issues" is far more apropos. Behaviors can be changed. Character cannot if it is tied to a standard involving "personality traits."

But WTH? Everyone loves the term "Character Issues" as if it were a new mantra. That is a crock full of boob's leavings.

Anyone who is concerned about "Character Issues" on the Broncos and is willing to sell out, PM me, and I will try to buy your season tickets (AND priority number.......

[TheDave]

Odds are he beat the crap out of someone he outweighed by 50 to 150 pounds.

You could be right... but why stop there. If were going to demonize him we might as well make the "Victim" a 75 year old blind amputee who at the time was confined to a wheelchair and needed a feeding tube to survive... come to think of it i believe i heard a portion of this story in which after mauling the poor old blind one armed wheelchair ridden WWII vet he kicked his seeing eye-dog. Rumor has it the poor mut had to be put down :thumbs:

[BroncoInferno]

You could be right... but why stop there. If were going to demonize him we might as well make the "Victim" a 75 year old blind amputee who at the time was confined to a wheelchair and needed a feeding tube to survive... come to think of it i believe i heard a portion of this story in which after mauling the poor old blind one armed wheelchair ridden WWII vet he kicked his seeing eye-dog. Rumor has it the poor mut had to be put down :thumbs:

Hey, come to think of it, isn't Harris the dude who made fun of Gary Coleman for being a rent-a-cop? The bastage.

[BroncoInferno]

You could be right... but why stop there. If were going to demonize him we might as well make the "Victim" a 75 year old blind amputee who at the time was confined to a wheelchair and needed a feeding tube to survive... come to think of it i believe i heard a portion of this story in which after mauling the poor old blind one armed wheelchair ridden WWII vet he kicked his seeing eye-dog. Rumor has it the poor mut had to be put down :thumbs:

Oh, wait, I remember this incident now...you've got it all wrong. He dropkicked a first trimester fetus.

[TheDave]

Oh, wait, I remember this incident now...you've got it all wrong. He dropkicked a first trimester fetus.

That the old blind guy was trying to recessitate (with his one arm)... he's a bad man

[footstepsfrom#27]

He was kicked off the FU team for good a year ago...what's that about?

[listopencil]

Here's my spin:

We need mean nasty sons of bitches on the D-Line. We just got one.

[cmhargrove]

It was brought up before, a fight may have very different circumstances than an unprovoked attack.

What if all the damage to the other guy was from one hit? It could be stupid, it may have been foolish, but it might be understandable. Without details on the particular matter, you can't make a very good judgement on this deal. There are a lot of reasons to be involved in a fight, most of them very dumb, but some are at least excusable.

I like a D-lineman with a mean streak, as long as he knows when and where to control his anger. Not enough details to rush to judgement here.

[worm]

He was kicked off the FU team for good a year ago...what's that about?

He did what it took to get back on the team....what about that?

[Hoosier Bronco]

Which way is it getting out of hand? I cannot believe the number of people who are clucking their tongues over "character issues". That covers a hella lot of territory, and condemns everyone, including the pornographers on this Board.... I would rather that we trust Shanahan to make some sort of adult judgment about these guys and maybe - just maybe - he knows something about what he is doing.

The tactic of shouting "THE SKY IS FALLING" is short sighted, hypocritical and insulting of the Broncos' FO. You want a Dline or a player with a 'tude? But you want only the "nice guys" who do not threaten some intangible, undefined and dubious standard of "Character". I think the term "Behavioral issues" is far more apropos. Behaviors can be changed. Character cannot if it is tied to a standard involving "personality traits."

But WTH? Everyone loves the term "Character Issues" as if it were a new mantra. That is a crock full of boob's leavings.

Anyone who is concerned about "Character Issues" on the Broncos and is willing to sell out, PM me, and I will try to buy your season tickets (AND priority number.......



Time will tell which category these players fall into (behavioral or character). I hope they do turn out to be behavioral issues that can be corrected based on your definitions.

I do think there is a difference between someone who has a mean streak on the field and behavioral issues off the field. I believe the NFL feels the same way.

I have never felt that players have to be role models, but I also don't want us to turn into the Denver Bengals (laughingstock of NFL).

[-Slap-]

Time will tell which category these players fall into (behavioral or character). I hope they do turn out to be behavioral issues that can be corrected based on your definitions.

I do think there is a difference between someone who has a mean streak on the field and behavioral issues off the field. I believe the NFL feels the same way.

I have never felt that players have to be role models, but I also don't want us to turn into the Denver Bengals (laughingstock of NFL).

Not only is the Bronco franchise turning into the Bengals, but Bronco fans are starting to sound EXACTLY like Raider fans. Read half the posts on this thread its all the same crap Raider fans used to love to say 10 to 15 years ago.

[-Slap-]

You could be right... but why stop there. If were going to demonize him we might as well make the "Victim" a 75 year old blind amputee who at the time was confined to a wheelchair and needed a feeding tube to survive... come to think of it i believe i heard a portion of this story in which after mauling the poor old blind one armed wheelchair ridden WWII vet he kicked his seeing eye-dog. Rumor has it the poor mut had to be put down :thumbs:

Why don't I just swoon over him like you guys do?

Ooh, Johnny Badass is on our team now. I feel tougher through osmosis.

[BroncoInferno]

Not only is the Bronco franchise turning into the Bengals

Oh, please. This is the first guy we've brought in this offseason who's actually ever been arrested for anything, and he probably won't even make the team.

[footstepsfrom#27]

It was brought up before, a fight may have very different circumstances than an unprovoked attack.

What if all the damage to the other guy was from one hit? It could be stupid, it may have been foolish, but it might be understandable. Without details on the particular matter, you can't make a very good judgement on this deal. There are a lot of reasons to be involved in a fight, most of them very dumb, but some are at least excusable.

I like a D-lineman with a mean streak, as long as he knows when and where to control his anger. Not enough details to rush to judgement here.
True...here's a few more details; it appears Harris' problems were ongoing rather than stemming from a single incident:

http://www.gatorcountry.org/wearetheboys/?m=200608

The Steven Harris Drama continues, with the senior now saying he may never suit up for the Gators again.

> Urban Meyer: “I’m not sure if he’ll play (this week). He’s dealing with issues. I’m 42 years old and never had to deal with those issues. For about a year-and-a-half, it’s issues he put himself into. All his personal business.”> Meyer: “I kind of like the way this team’s gotten around him, and I like the fact he’s going to be a graduate of the University of Florida. That means a lot to these players. Whether he plays or not, ever, that’s not really that important when you look at the grand scheme of things. He’s a better person because the University of Florida helped Steve Harris.”

[Popcorn Sutton]

Not only is the Bronco franchise turning into the Bengals, but Bronco fans are starting to sound EXACTLY like Raider fans. Read half the posts on this thread its all the same crap Raider fans used to love to say 10 to 15 years ago.

Wow! It's gone from drafting a couple guys who smoked weed to being the Bengals and Raiders. It's amazing how fast things progress.

[TheDave]

Why don't I just swoon over him like you guys do?

Ooh, Johnny Badass is on our team now. I feel tougher through osmosis.

No one here is "swooning" over an UDFA... I'm just not ready to call us the Bengals because we didn't spend the drafdt weekend selecting chior boys.

[Odysseus]

I am not sure what to make of Harris. I wonder how much the Florida guys stood up for him. Sometimes a support structure is all you need. From one point of view he is outside looking in at the NFL party and he has no way of getting in except he does the right things.

The difference between a guy who gets caught beating the balls off of a guy and not getting caught might reflect on temperament, luck, smarts, medication, or more specifics that we aren't privy to. I don't say we take any of that lightly. The Broncos have brought in some pretty sick guys at DL who were "never caught" but in the end never did anything either.

The meanest guy is NEVER the one who growls or barks. It is the one you don't see coming. Harris got caught.

-Slap- is right to be concerned. You can only throw the dice so many times before it goes wrong.

The difference between picking up a questionable player and recreating the crap that caused him the problems in the first place is a thin line. If you forget that it is a scorpion it will remind you.

[-Slap-]

No one here is "swooning" over an UDFA... I'm just not ready to call us the Bengals because we didn't spend the drafdt weekend selecting chior boys.

I don't care what you call them. I'm telling you guys you sound like Raider fans. Too bad if you can't handle the truth.

[Popps]

He did what it took to get back on the team....what about that?

Well, that's not a real surprise.

College football is notorious for coddling and fostering these thugs. That's why when you see a guy who IS actually booted off the team, you can generally assume it's fairly sever, particularly if he's a guy who can play a little.
These teams will go to great lengths to poo-poo incidents.

The NFL is even worse, though they've recently started to scratch the surface of dealing with this problem, a bit.

I'm not happy with the direction we're taking in this regard. Maybe I'm just getting old... but I don't see the fun in rooting for bad people.

[cmhargrove]

I think most of us are willing to agree that we would rather not have guys who have screwed up their personal lives on the team. However, most of us will forgive one or two events as long as they don't have a major impact on the team.

My belief is that Shanhan will be willing to forgive these guys for past transgressions, but will bring down the hammer if they do it as a Bronco. I feel like Sauerbrun was a good example. Shanahan made the right move, even if it did cost the team. And, Sauerbrun has one last shot at redemption because he has admitted his problem and worked hard to fix it.

Harris will probably be a practice squad player. Burton has a year of the team under his belt, and even if Veal had his shortcomings, he at least has some experience to beat out a rookie.

We need to stop worrying about what happens about some of these behavior issues until they become a Bronco issue. Then, we will wait to see how the Broncos organization reacts. Our last two behavior issues have come from totally unexpected players (Brandon Marshall and DJ Williams). The Clarett deal wasn't really an issue because he was a compensatory pick, and he was a turd from day 1. Our team never expected much of him, never needed him.

I bet we have a problem from a "regular" Bronco before we have a problem with Moss or Thomas.

[errand]

*****Haven't seen this, it is was posted, my apologies. With Q. Echols out there (obviously a feel good story), why do we go with a guy who has these character issues. Didn't we get enough of that in the draft. I know there is no risk here, but WTF.

Mike evidently subscribes to the "Penn State or State Pen" mentality when looking for football players.

[jonny1]

Until these guys actually do something wrong as a Broncos player, I'm not going to worry about what they've done in the past. You guys are acting like the only criteria Shanahan looked at was whether they were "thugs."

One of the nicest guys I've ever known did jail time for involuntary manslaughter because, and I quote, "I got mad and hit him . . . once . . ., so I don't get mad anymore."

Now if Thomas and Moss and Harris go out raping and pillaging and Shanahan KEEPS them around, then you can say we're like the Faders or the Bungles, but til then, how about giving them and Shanahan the benefit of the doubt?

[errand]

Here's my spin:

We need mean nasty sons of b****es on the D-Line. We just got one.

...until he pulls an Albert Haynesworth and stomps on another player's head.

Look, we all think that our players should have a mean streak in them, but people like me and Slap, and Popps think it should be kept in the arena......not in the public arena.

[Odysseus]

I think making assumptions either way is stupid.

[footstepsfrom#27]

His coach said he had ongoing "issues" that had lasted for a year and a half by the spring of 2006...we're a year past that...so he could be a guy with long term problems instead of isolaed incidents. I found a link that said he was a standout at the East West Shrine game in practice, so that's probably why he's here.

[errand]

I think making assumptions either way is stupid.

All I know is, I wouldn't sign any player who had character issues like assault, drugs, DUI, etc. We're not talking about unpaid parking tickets here....we're talking about a guy who beat a man unconscious.

Sure these guys might have changed their stripes...but I think I'd rather see them get their second chances elsewhere where being a class organization isn't a priority.

[Odysseus]

...until he pulls an Albert Haynesworth and stomps on another player's head.

Look, we all think that our players should have a mean streak in them, but people like me and Slap, and Popps think it should be kept in the arena......not in the public arena.

Slap and Popps I respect. You should not be in the same sentence with these guys. You are making an assumption that somehow because they are credible you are. You think you are building credibility slipping that in there. You are not.

This is exactly how these kinds of players get support in the first place. Rational people are forced to support irrational stance in order to simply take a look at a player. Nobody is asking any questions they are assuming one thing or another without looking for facts.

[Odysseus]

All I know is, I wouldn't sign any player who had character issues like assault, drugs, DUI, etc. We're not talking about unpaid parking tickets here....we're talking about a guy who beat a man unconscious.

Sure these guys might have changed their stripes...but I think I'd rather see them get their second chances elsewhere where being a class organization isn't a priority.

Great. Errand is a bastion of pure goodness.

[BroncoInferno]

Mike evidently subscribes to the "Penn State or State Pen" mentality when looking for football players.

So his bringing in a single individual this offseason who has actually been arrested--an UDFA to boot--is akin to a "State pen" mentality?

[BroncoInferno]

I'm not happy with the direction we're taking in this regard. Maybe I'm just getting old... but I don't see the fun in rooting for bad people.

You do realize that this guy is the ONLY player we brought in this offseason who has EVER been arrested on any charge? Are Thomas, Moss and Henry "bad people" because they've smoked weed before? Only Thomas--whom we made a modest 3rd round investment in--has any further circumstances to cause serious concern. Well, and this UDFA, of course, but odds are he won't even make the team. You guys are overreacting big time.

[BroncoInferno]

I don't care what you call them. I'm telling you guys you sound like Raider fans. Too bad if you can't handle the truth.

The truth is that you are overreacting by comparing us to the Bengals (a team who's had nine players recently arrested) simply because we signed one guy--a UDFA not likely to make the squad--this offseason who has ever been arrested.

[Paladin]

I demand that the Mane remove all avatars that show women in less than full dress. No girlie pictures, and no representations of unhealthy, illegal or objectionable concepts.

Let us see how committed people here are to the "straight and narrow", "clean and pure" old fashioned, conservative family values and wholesome living. No smoking, no drinking, no ogling and no dirty jokes. No swearing, no evil thoughts and no evil deeds. Absolutely no name calling, baiting, or snide remarks towards any person who comes here. no even Bob or Crazyhorse. There should be no expressions of negative or unflattering comments. There should be no moping and complaining.

Let's clean this Board up!!! Let's show the Broncos what "Clean and Pure" really is!

[elsid13]

I demand that the Mane remove all avatars that show women in less than full dress. No girlie pictures, and no representations of unhealthy, illegal or objectionable concepts.

Let us see how committed people here are to the "straight and narrow", "clean and pure" old fashioned, conservative family values and wholesome living. No smoking, no drinking, no ogling and no dirty jokes. No swearing, no evil thoughts and no evil deeds. Absolutely no name calling, baiting, or snide remarks towards any person who comes here. no even Bob or Crazyhorse. There should be no expressions of negative or unflattering comments. There should be no moping and complaining.

Let's clean this Board up!!! Let's show the Broncos what "Clean and Pure" really is!

just like TV Sex - BAD , Violence - GOOD

[backup qb]

Not excusing his behaviour, but it's kind of difficult to get real pissed off at a 19 year old kid for getting into a fight.

Guess all we can do is hope he is more mature now. If not, he didn't cost us anything

Thank you! Most of us on here probably got into a serious fight somewhere around the age of 19. Good lord. Get over it people. I am all for character too, but we make it out like these guys are Charlie Manson. So Moss and Thomas smoked some weed? Once again, I am sure many, if not most on here smoked a little in college.

[Atlas]

Anyone else think this kid getting a "shot" is half about sending home a message to Moss and Thomas that lots of people get cut, don't give us a reason to make you one of them?

Good point.

Just remember these kids were 19/20 years old. A bar fight!! WOW never saw one of those before!! All this stuff is irrelevant. Question is now that he is older can he stay out of trouble.

[brother love]

Steven Harris, DT, Florida: Beat a man unconscious in 2003 outside a Gainesville night club and missed fall camp and three games with a suspension. Pled no contest to misdemeanor battery and agreed to six months probation, anger management classes and restitution because the man lost a tooth and needed 11 stitches and other medical expenses paid. Had a warrant issued for failing to pay a $258 fine on two citations of driving with a revoked license. Suspended from the team for unspecified reasons for good in spring, 2006.

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/n...FT2_S1.article



*****Haven't seen this, it is was posted, my apologies. With Q. Echols out there (obviously a feel good story), why do we go with a guy who has these character issues. Didn't we get enough of that in the draft. I know there is no risk here, but WTF.

Maybe next time it will be Peyton who is beaten unconsious!

[Kaylore]

I'm sure this undrafted free agent is expected to make the team and be the face of the franchise. Oh wait...

The guy will probably get cut after camp. There are a lot of thugs and losers who are in mini-camps during the pre-season.

[worm]

Odell Thurman displayed the same type of warning signs in college that players like MT and Harris give off.

We all know how that ended.

I hope that Shanny assigns a personal driver\bodyguard\babysitter to these guys until they can demonstrate maturity.

One slip from the Gators and Denver needs to walk away like Cincy is doing with Odell. No matter how great their success is on the field.

[maven]

We need mean nasty sons of b****es on the D-Line. We just got one.

My thoughts exactly. The Bengals were bottom feeders forever. They went out and grab as much talent as they possibly could character concerns or not. Denver drafts 1 in the 4th round with possible character concerns, and this board jumps ship.

[Kaylore]

Did you guys see how Marcus Vick turned the Dolphins into a team of thugs? Man, they were always getting arrested, huh?

[-Slap-]

The truth is that you are overreacting by comparing us to the Bengals (a team who's had nine players recently arrested) simply because we signed one guy--a UDFA not likely to make the squad--this offseason who has ever been arrested.

We brought in two guys who were kicked off their college football team.

Means nothing right?

My favorite part of this whole thing is Shanahan kind of likes to spin himself as part Father Flanagan (give the kid a chance), and, incredibly, part disciplinarian (get your Goose on and you're gone).

All this less than 30 days after the NFL finally takes some steps to rein in the problem children in their League, handing out eight-game and year-long suspensions.

[Kaylore]

We brought in two guys who were kicked off their college football team.

Means nothing right?

My favorite part of this whole thing is Shanahan kind of likes to spin himself as part Father Flanagan (give the kid a chance), and, incredibly, part disciplinarian (get your Goose on and you're gone).

All this less than 30 days after the NFL finally takes some steps to rein in the problem children in their League, handing out eight-game and year-long suspensions.

I would think that that would make him more confident that these guys understand their margin for error is very slim. Slap, do you believe people can change or are you someone who thinks once a bad seed, always a bad seed? Honest question.

[-Slap-]

I would think that that would make him more confident that these guys understand their margin for error is very slim. Slap, do you believe people can change or are you someone who thinks once a bad seed, always a bad seed? Honest question.

Honest, but silly. Who truly believes all people fall into one category or the other?

Their margin for error might be slim right now. Who's to say? Clarett was showing up to practice drunk for crying out loud. He was literally begging Shanahan to cut him so he could get on with his self loathing path of destruction.

Let's say Marcus Thomas keeps his nose clean all year and plays great football for us. How slim do you think his margin of error will be next year when he's a major cog? Let's put it this way, the word slim would not be applicable.

[Atlas]

Let's say Marcus Thomas keeps his nose clean all year and plays great football for us. How slim do you think his margin of error will be next year when he's a major cog? Let's put it this way, the word slim would not be applicable.

If he plays all year and doesn't get in trouble, then he messes up next year don't you think he has earned a reprieve? I mean if he messes up next year after being clean for a year. Why should Denver discipline him anymore than they would anyone else. On the other hand if he messes up in training camp he is cut.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Thank you! Most of us on here probably got into a serious fight somewhere around the age of 19. Good lord. Get over it people. I am all for character too, but we make it out like these guys are Charlie Manson. So Moss and Thomas smoked some weed? Once again, I am sure many, if not most on here smoked a little in college.
If Charlie Manson ran a 4.3 forty and could take a punt to the house half this board would be talking up him paying his debt to society already.

The desire to win trumps concerns over character 90% of the time with NFL fans.

[Kaylore]

Honest, but silly. Who truly believes all people fall into one category or the other?

Their margin for error might be slim right now. Who's to say? Clarett was showing up to practice drunk for crying out loud. He was literally begging Shanahan to cut him so he could get on with his self loathing path of destruction.

Let's say Marcus Thomas keeps his nose clean all year and plays great football for us. How slim do you think his margin of error will be next year when he's a major cog? Let's put it this way, the word slim would not be applicable.
The question was a bit of an absolute but I was just trying to get your position on this. It sounds to me that your concern is that if they find success and the praise, money and whatever that comes with it they'll fast forget their weaknesses and what they did and fall into their former ways.

I can appreciate a pride cycle, but I don't think people should have to be punished for their mistakes forever, especially young people, if they are honestly willing to turn their lives around. He might just jack it all up again, but at least Thomas is being hounded about it over and over and has fallen quite a bit. It's not like he doesn't know the consequences of his actions and is there a bigger microscope on the guy? They know what the league has done. They know Shanahan is willing to cut him. This guy was drafted behind Mo-C so he's going to be making even less and he'll likely sign a similar contract that will allow the Broncos to cut Clarrett. I guess my point is that in the NFL he has done nothing wrong yet, and until he does, I'm going to take him as he is.

I have faith guys can and do change and I suspect someone like Marcus Thomas is in the kind of position that fosters it.

[Dedhed]

I'm not a big fan of the Harris signing, but that has less to do with Harris's individual situation. I think the real problem is that we now have a group of guys who went to college together and all had issues. The last thing we want is for these guys to come to Denver and stay in the frame of mind they were in in college. I think if these guys are always hanging around together and swapping college stories there's a greater liklihood that they'll stick to their old ways.

I know that when I hang out with old college/highschool friends my maturity level takes a nose dive. The last thing we want is for these guys to form a posse that walls them off from other players. We want them looking to the leaders on this team and the coaches for support, not each other.

[maven]

I'm not a big fan of the Harris signing, but that has less to do with Harris's individual situation. I think the real problem is that we now have a group of guys who went to college together and all had issues. The last thing we want is for these guys to come to Denver and stay in the frame of mind they were in in college. I think if these guys are always hanging around together and swapping college stories there's a greater liklihood that they'll stick to their old ways.

I know that when I hang out with old college/highschool friends my maturity level takes a nose dive. The last thing we want is for these guys to form a posse that walls them off from other players. We want them looking to the leaders on this team and the coaches for support, not each other.

Um, a group of guys? It is only two players who played on the same team.

[BroncoInferno]

We brought in two guys who were kicked off their college football team.

Means nothing right?

My favorite part of this whole thing is Shanahan kind of likes to spin himself as part Father Flanagan (give the kid a chance), and, incredibly, part disciplinarian (get your Goose on and you're gone).

All this less than 30 days after the NFL finally takes some steps to rein in the problem children in their League, handing out eight-game and year-long suspensions.

Ricky Williams and Travis Henry were both kicked off their respective teams for a period of time. Why did you so gleefully endorse both as potential Broncos?

Means nothing, right?

[Odysseus]

I'm not a big fan of the Harris signing, but that has less to do with Harris's individual situation. I think the real problem is that we now have a group of guys who went to college together and all had issues. The last thing we want is for these guys to come to Denver and stay in the frame of mind they were in in college. I think if these guys are always hanging around together and swapping college stories there's a greater liklihood that they'll stick to their old ways.

I know that when I hang out with old college/highschool friends my maturity level takes a nose dive. The last thing we want is for these guys to form a posse that walls them off from other players. We want them looking to the leaders on this team and the coaches for support, not each other.

The opposite of this is the Broncos are the Broncos are you guys can either change to be part of us or you can leave. To assume some rookie guys are going to change the whole Broncos way of doing business is kind of out there but you are right. How do they HELP each other and how does this HELP the Broncos. I think time will tell whether they become good citizens. It is risky business and a dangerous game.

Some people just need something to complain about. It keeps them whole.

Inferno: Why are you calling out -Slap-? He's not coming clean.

I am going to let you guys find your own way. I am not perfect in all my ways or understandings. Maybe some of you need a stress reliever and this is all that you have. That is a pity.

Please resume your regularly scheduled offseason tirade.

[Taco John]

Anyone remember what happened when Dick Vermiel came into KC and decided to get a bunch of good "character guys" on their defense.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I'm not a big fan of the Harris signing, but that has less to do with Harris's individual situation. I think the real problem is that we now have a group of guys who went to college together and all had issues. The last thing we want is for these guys to come to Denver and stay in the frame of mind they were in in college. I think if these guys are always hanging around together and swapping college stories there's a greater liklihood that they'll stick to their old ways.
U of Florida had/has major issues with their football players, including multiple charges for assault and battery, fighting in a mob, chasing a student and firing an automatic rifle, rape and drug issues. Since Harris wasn't even a starter in college, I see no real point in him being here even if you blindly accept the premise that Moss and Thomas will have no further issues. We couldn't find another scrub for camp fodder who didn't have an arrest record? It makes no real sense.

Que the "you think you know more than Shanahan" crowd with the usual accusations of hypocricy, arrogance, etc...

Just win baby...:thumbs:

[Taco John]

We brought in two guys who were kicked off their college football team.

Means nothing right?

My favorite part of this whole thing is Shanahan kind of likes to spin himself as part Father Flanagan (give the kid a chance), and, incredibly, part disciplinarian (get your Goose on and you're gone).
All this less than 30 days after the NFL finally takes some steps to rein in the problem children in their League, handing out eight-game and year-long suspensions.


I think in fairness to Shanahan, he's willing to give people the benefit of a doubt and offer them a rope to recussitate their career. If they choose to take that opportunity to "get their goose on," he is quick to slam the door on their fingers. Every problem case that Shanahan has brought in who has thanked him by pissing on the opportunity has been dealt with in quick order. I don't think that's going to be any different in these cases, and the ultimate reality is that these are high risk, high reward moves. But in all cases, I'd say that the gamble is worth it.

And personally, I see the NFL's new policy as a benefit to Shanahan here. I think that the league has gotten the attention of its players right now, and we'll see a bit of a grace period where there are relatively few incidents of real off-the-field character trouble. I think the rookies coming in this year will get the fear of God put in them. I guess we'll see... But for the current season, I'm not too terribly concerned. I think we've got a good veteran team that will create a good environment for any rookie to come into.

[-Slap-]

If he plays all year and doesn't get in trouble, then he messes up next year don't you think he has earned a reprieve?

You people are frigging hilarious.

[-Slap-]

Ricky Williams and Travis Henry were both kicked off their respective teams for a period of time. Why did you so gleefully endorse both as potential Broncos?

Means nothing, right?

I apologize for telling you previously that you are able to debate honestly, because clearly you lack that ability. Neither of those guys were ever kicked off their football teams.

[fontaine]

If he plays all year and doesn't get in trouble, then he messes up next year don't you think he has earned a reprieve? I mean if he messes up next year after being clean for a year. Why should Denver discipline him anymore than they would anyone else.

If Marcus Thomas plays hard all year and becomes a model citizen only to screw it up again then he deserves a bigger kick in the a$$ than ever before.

Only a fool would throw it all away AGAIN.

Certain players have made a career feasting on stupid GMs/Coaches who buy the "I'm a changed guy" story again and again.

[BroncoInferno]

I apologize for telling you previously that you are able to debate honestly, because clearly you lack that ability. Neither of those guys were ever kicked off their football teams.

Williams was twice suspended under the leagues substance abuse policy, once for 4 games and once for an entire season. Henry has a 4 game suspension under his belt. That means that each failed a minimum of 3 drug tests. Now, you've previously stated that it is not the pot smoking that bothers you, it is the repeated bad decision making that you don't like. Well, each of these guys obviously fcked up at least 3 times (more in the case of Williams). While it is true that the teams specifically did not suspend the players, that is only because the NFL handles drug related issues, so teams on an individual basis obviously have no reason to be involved. I'm really curious as to what distinguishes these circumstances in your mind.

Also, only Thomas was actually kicked off his team for good. Harris returned to the team, so only one player we picked up was permanently kicked off his team.

[-Slap-]

Neither player was ever kicked off their team and each of them were welcomed back as soon as League imposed sanctions were complete.

You're comparing that to a guy who went AWOL from rehab and left the state while the school had him on his final strike and a guy who Urban Myer said had made a year-and-a-half pattern of bad decisions, culminating in a violent episode that got him arrested.

I dunno, maybe you're not being deliberately duplicitous. Perhaps you honestly can't discern the obvious differences in these cases, Especially seeing how Broncos are involved and everything.

[BroncoInferno]

Well, I guess in my mind smoking pot knowing your next failure is going to get you suspended is just as selfish to the team as skipping rehab and going out of town to see your girlfriend. So, in Thomas' case, I'm not sure I see a whole lot of difference in terms of the boneheadedness and lack of concern for your teammates and coaches.

On Harris, I don't especially like this move because he actually committed a violent crime and, furthermore, there doesn't seem to be much upside to the guy as a player, so I'm not sure why this guy is worth taking a risk on. I guess at the end of the day he's likely camp fodder anyway, so he will likely weed himself off the team via natural selection before he has any opportunity to fck up again.

In any case, I still think comparsions to the Bengals are a gross overreaction.

[BroncoInferno]

I don't think that's going to be any different in these cases, and the ultimate reality is that these are high risk, high reward moves.

I agree with your entire post except for this part. I don't think the moves are high risk at all. We made essentially a 3rd round investment in Thomas and 4th round money. If he doesn't work out, he'll merely join the Travis McGriffs and Dorsett Davis' of the past who we drafted with that sort of investment who failed. We're risking about nothing on Harris. No draft pick was used on him, and he got about 20 K as a bonus.

[Paladin]

(Seeing the *pouting*)

Still at it? We will see what happens. Maybe the entire Broncos team will disintegrate before your very eyes, and you can be justified in changing your loyalties to, say, the Sandy Eggo Sparklers and that Merriman fellow......

Or whatever......

[Dedhed]

I apologize for telling you previously that you are able to debate honestly, because clearly you lack that ability. Neither of those guys were ever kicked off their football teams.

I think it's considerably worse to screw up after you enter the professional ranks than it is to get in trouble as an amateur. Everyone dicks off in college, that's what it's there for. Once you enter the professional ranks you should be held to a much higher (no pun intended) standard. Your rationale doesn't work for me at all.

[Dedhed]

Um, a group of guys? It is only two players who played on the same team.Add 2 plus 1 and tell me what you come up with.

[Kaylore]

I think it's considerably worse to screw up after you enter the professional ranks than it is to get in trouble as an amateur. Everyone ***** off in college, that's what it's there for. Once you enter the professional ranks you should be held to a much higher (no pun intended) standard. Your rationale doesn't work for me at all.

That's what I don't get. Some of these guys made these mistakes when they were 19, 20, and 21 years old. Do youthful indiscretions make you a permanent bad teammate? No. They'll grow up or get kicked off the team. Mr. Roger(s) will make sure they don't play for any team. They know what the consequences are.

[DenverBrit]

I'm amazed at how intolerant and judgmental some people can be.
No one was arrested, no one was injured or beaten, nothing was stolen, no fires started, no rape, no molestation, no drunken driving, no arrests. etc. etc.
They are Broncos now, give them an opportunity to be solid citizens.
They have more than paid there dues for the offenses committed.

I have a question: Why are athletes in college tested for pot? It's hardly a performance enhancer.
How would everyone feel if ALL college students had to submit to such random testing?

Ok, it was two questions.

[footstepsfrom#27]

No one was arrested, no one was injured or beaten, nothing was stolen, no fires started, no rape, no molestation, no drunken driving, no arrests. etc. etc.
Harris was arrested for kicking the crap out of some guy...there might have been other issues...Meyer did't elaborate but he did state that he had an ongoing pattern of problems as opposed to one incident.

[DenverBrit]

Harris was arrested for kicking the crap out of some guy...there might have been other issues...Meyer did't elaborate but he did state that he had an ongoing pattern of problems as opposed to one incident.

I was thinking about Moss and Thomas.

I know, wrong thread.

[DenverBrit]

It's interesting that NE drafts Meriweather and there's hardly a mention.
Talk about Teflon.

'The major blemish on Meriweather's record is his one-game suspension last year for stomping on the head of Florida International players during a brawl between the teams. He was also involved in a shooting episode when he fired a licensed handgun to defend a friend and teammate who'd been shot.'

I'll take the pot smokers every time!

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2007-04-24-2384828392_x.htm