Criminals Demand Rights In Protests Across the Country

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Listening to Tom Martino show today on illegal immigrants demanding immigration reform. Like he said, why would these criminals want reform? Many have been here for years, had work visas (that are good for 7 years) let them expire and now are complaining about not having the right to automatically become American citizens.

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Thousands to demonstrate in US immigration marches (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070501/ts_alt_afp/usimmigrationprotest_070501161402;_ylt=Ag1boM2c8xu xsOY4.ya5CYtH2ocA)
by Paula Bustamante 29 minutes ago

LOS ANGELES (AFP) - Thousands of activists were due to march across the United States on Tuesday to demand immigration reform, but the rallies were expected to be smaller than last year's huge protests.

Demonstrations were being planned in several major cities -- including Los Angeles, Chicago, New York and Miami -- by a broad coalition of groups calling for rights for the estimated 12 million illegal workers in the US.


http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20070501/capt.sge.uej82.010507160336.photo00.photo.default-512x341.jpg?x=380&y=253&sig=yrjKBeQKTcAhCWp8UcIloA--
Demonstrators protest outside the offices of Immigration and Custom Enforcement in Chicago, Illinois in April 2007. Thousands of activists were due to march across the United States on Tuesday to demand immigration reform, but the rallies were expected to be smaller than last year's huge protests.(AFP/Getty Images/File/Scott Olson)


The rallies are being held on the one year anniversary of mass protests across the country which saw more than one million, mostly Hispanic, workers stage an unprecedented "economic boycott" by skipping work for a day.

However, divisions amongst activist groups about the best way to campaign for reform as well as fear amongst illegal workers following a series of immigration crackdowns are likely to mean a lower turnout, activists say.

In Los Angeles, where around 500,000 protestors brought the city's business district to a standstill last year, organizers said they expected 100,000 people to attend two separate marches in downtown.

Flavia Jimenez, an analyst at the National Council of La Raza (NCLR), the largest non-profit Latino rights organization in the US which opposes a boycott, said workers were wary of possible repercussions if they protested.

"There is more fear this time and that is preventing our community from mobilizing like last year," Jimenez told AFP.

She said workers were reluctant to draw attention to themselves following immigration raids by authorities.

Although smaller than 12 months ago, the Los Angeles protests will force the closure of 17 downtown streets and some 60 bus routes have been changed.

The murder trial of legendary music producer Phil Spector has also been adjourned for the day.

In Chicago, three separate rallies were expected to converge on the city's business district at around 12:30 pm (1930 GMT).

A few hundred activists had gathered in Chicago's Union Park early Tuesday to call for immigration reform.

"It's unjust the dark times we're living in," 42-year-old laborer Nacho Santos said through an interpreter. "Those of us who are immigrants are trying to bring the United States back into the light. Our people have given much to this country and many of here have come hoping for legalization."

On the east coast, groups rallying under the New York Immigration Coalition and National May 1st Movement for Worker and Immigrant Rights were to hold marches to demand a path to citizenship for all undocumented immigrants.

"We will be creating a family tree to symbolize the struggles of millions of immigrant families to stay together," the coalition said in a statement, calling for the government to "stop tearing families apart!"

The May 1st Movement called for supporters to boycott any form of economic activity on Tuesday, including shopping, working and even going to school.

President George W. Bush last month called for an overhaul of immigration laws by the end of the year. Analysts believe reform will stall if the issue drags into 2008, as focus turns to the race for the White House.

Bush's proposals include the creation of a temporary guest worker program and clearing the way for some undocumented immigrants to become US citizens, coupled with a series of tougher security measures.

His ideas have divided his party, with many Republicans saying they want to see tougher enforcement of border controls and deriding his guest worker program as an improper "amnesty."

Democrats are generally more receptive, though some with close ties to US unions worry that immigration puts downward pressure on wages.

[TailgateNut]

Where are those "mini nukes" when you need 'em.

[bendog]

Well, damn, if they all stay home today, the construction biz in Miss might as well take the day off too.

[Stormontheplains]

"It's unjust the dark times we're living in," 42-year-old laborer Nacho Santos said through an interpreter. "Those of us who are immigrants are trying to bring the United States back into the light. Our people have given much to this country and many of here have come hoping for legalization.".

That is classic, Nacho state's through interpreter that these are dark times, Doesnt speak english and wants a voice in this country, well that's hard if you dont try to learn the english language. All the jobs are going to Mexico now, dont know why they want to be here

[Rohirrim]

Pretty soon us Americans will be sneaking across the border to find jobs. Of course, if you're caught in Mexico illegally, they lock you up for a year. No questions asked.

[Rascal]

Looks like an excellent place for the police to go and round up some illegals.

[Rohirrim]

Countdown commences for El Minion to show up with a three page screed...10, 9, 8, ...

[watermock]

Pretty soon us Americans will be sneaking across the border to find jobs.

Your more than welcome to go there. I've never heard a more pathetic argument.

Have you bothered to look at the unemployment stats in this country despite outsourcing and illegal immigration?

[TailgateNut]

Your more than welcome to go there. I've never heard a more pathetic argument.

Have you bothered to look at the unemployment stats in this country despite outsourcing and illegal immigration?


Playing with your "pussy" constantly obviously affects you thinking!

Factoring in the low paying jobs which have been created, and the jobs which continue to be low paying due to the immigrants, the picture is not quite as rosy as you paint it.
Also what happens when unemployment benefits "run out", the person is dropped from the reported #s.

[smalltowngrll]

This is such a difficult thing. It's frustrating because I would not go into someone's home and begin to clean it, get paid for it, but then demand that they give me a portion of their house, without abiding by their rules in which to obtain rights to it. We have set up certain means in which one can come into this country legally, why not go about it that way? I'm not against those that desire to immigrate into the US, but do it legally! There is a reason why it's set up the way it is.

The other frustrating thing is that in my county alone in OREGON of all places, 10% of our jail population are illegals. And, of those that make up that 10% are in there for immigration purposes. All are due to violent crimes!

[Crushaholic]

Looks like an excellent place for the police to go and round up some illegals.

Here in Topeka, the illegals stage a rally at the Capitol every year. The police don't do anything about it except see that it's a peaceful rally. It's quite frustrating...

[Rohirrim]

Your more than welcome to go there. I've never heard a more pathetic argument.

Have you bothered to look at the unemployment stats in this country despite outsourcing and illegal immigration?

Mock ducks another one. Whoosh! ;D

[watermock]

Playing with your "p***Y" constantly obviously affects you thinking!

Factoring in the low paying jobs which have been created, and the jobs which continue to be low paying due to the immigrants, the picture is not quite as rosy as you paint it.
Also what happens when unemployment benefits "run out", the person is dropped from the reported #s.

Your an idiot. So illegal immigrants are stealing the high paying jobs? Jobs are being outsourced because companies will go broke if they dont.

Low paying jobs due to the immigrants? First they are not immigrants moron. They are illegals. I never quoted any rosy picture, it's just that the it's the economy stupid mantra has calmed down for now.

Do you think that someone dropping off the unemployment charts happened 3 years ago? Your an idiot.

Your arguments are pathetic. BTW, he's not a pussycat. Your an idiot.

[Rohirrim]

Your an idiot. So illegal immigrants are stealing the high paying jobs? Jobs are being outsourced because companies will go broke if they dont.

Low paying jobs due to the immigrants? First they are not immigrants moron. They are illegals. I never quoted any rosy picture, it's just that the it's the economy stupid mantra has calmed down for now.

Do you think that someone dropping off the unemployment charts happened 3 years ago? Your an idiot.

Your arguments are pathetic. BTW, he's not a p***Ycat. Your an idiot.

Hmmmm. Now I know how Mock keeps that farm running while spending the whole day on the internet! :rofl:

[watermock]

I have cyborgs.

They are tractors you can nap in that turn around on gps while you nap.

[Garcia Bronco]

I'd put fire hoses and night sticks on them like it was the 60's.

[RkyMtnThunder]

Illegals arent just picking veggies on farms or digging ditches. And not all good jobs are being outsourced over seas.

Illegals are taking up skilled labor positions at wages Americans cant work for. Compare an American journeyman bricklayer income to a Mexican - the Mexican will work for 1/2 the money paid under the table, the American is screwed cause he cant afford to make that low a salary not to mention the fact American pays income taxes unlike an illegal.

Illegals are also taking fast food jobs and other entry level jobs that used to go to our teenagers and retirees.

(companies hiring Illegals need to be shut down - period. The laws are too lax and fines too low when the profits made off cheap labor can offset such loss easily. Companies who hire illegals are the driving force behind this problem. If they didnt provide jobs, there wouldnt be nearly as many border jumpers)

I am sick to death of seeing an illegal working for $15/hr tax free, his wife at home with their 7 kids collecting welfare and food stamps - while he is driving around in a new $40k truck with a Mexican flag and sticker of Calvin pissing on 'La Migra' (Immigration)

I live in Phoenix - I see it every day - Illegals are here to leech off our system, they mock us and our culture, refuse to learn our language and assimilate into our society - show lack of respect for our parks and recreational areas and residential neighborhoods. I hate to say it, but they are dirty litterbugs and leave garbage everywhere they go. They think they are still in northern Mexico where no one thinks twice about using their front yard as a garbage dump. Anyone who has been to TJ or Rocky Point (Puerto Penasco) knows what I am talking about


The folks who wish to play by the rules, come to our country with the best intentions - these folks do it legally, learn our language, pay their taxes, obey the laws and make an honest effort at the American dream. More power to them!

The others - no sympathy to their 'plight'. None what so ever.

[Garcia Bronco]

It wouldn't be a problem if we just started putting bullets in them at the border.

[watermock]

Whoosh? My ancestors had to go thru ellis island.

I'm always amazed at the term immigrants. They are illegal aliens. Explain to me how they are immigrants?

It's called Illegal aliens.

[Bob]

Your more than welcome to go there. I've never heard a more pathetic argument.

Have you bothered to look at the unemployment stats in this country despite outsourcing and illegal immigration?

I am not worried about illegals taking my job either, but I am concerned about the majority of money earned by illegals going back to mexico, and taxes that are not paid in America. I worry about the costs to hospitals that are closing, and the bills we pay as the healthcare costs are shifted to you and me. I would be willing to pay more in lettice, and less in healthcare costs any day how about you? We dont see the hidden costs as some are lost in the "main stream" spin. I am concerned that the Republicans are exploiting illegal cheap labor, sending unsafe Mexican trucks over our roads (which will result in more lost blue collar jobs. I am concerned that the Democrats are seeing those that come to America illegally as a potential vote.

The MAJORITY of Americans can see the problem for what it is, a security, and an ethical issue, and not as a political football.

[Northman]

Looks like an excellent place for the police to go and round up some illegals.

My thoughts exactly. Tell them that the goverment is going to give them all citizenship and then transport their asses back across the border. ;D

[Dukes]

Nothing is going to be done about this until the goverment starts losing serious money because of it. That's the only way to get people motivated anymore.

[Dukes]

My thoughts exactly. Tell them that the goverment is going to give them all citizenship and then transport their asses back across the border. ;D

We have to do more than that. They'll just start walking north again

[Garcia Bronco]

My thoughts exactly. Tell them that the goverment is going to give them all citizenship and then transport their asses back across the border. ;D

Then they'll riot...and that's when you break out the hoses and batons.

[Northman]

Then they'll riot...and that's when you break out the hoses and batons.

Hilarious!
Ive been laughing nonstop in this thread from your posts already. Stop it!

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Whoosh? My ancestors had to go thru ellis island.
I'm always amazed at the term immigrants. They are illegal aliens. Explain to me how they are immigrants?
It's called Illegal aliens.
im·mi·grant (http://www.tfd.com/immigrants)
n.
1. A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another.
2. A plant or animal that establishes itself in an area where it previously did not exist.

Does that explain any better for you? You have any working your green acres?

[Los Broncos]

What happened to ditch they were suppose to dig at the border, like everyone would just fall into it.

[Dukes]

30 foot walls with motion sensored machine guns should do the trick.

[Bob]

Tomatoes and Cheap Labor

Cheap Tomatoes
This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or Independent

From a California school teacher - - -"As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:

I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socioeconomic and income levels.

Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens, Huntington Park, etc., where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools.

Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students here in the country less then 3 months who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them "Putas" whores and throwing things that the teachers were in tears.

Free medical, free education, free food, day care etc., etc., etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?

To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.

Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases etc., etc, etc. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.

We need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a disaster because we won't have the guts to enforce it.
Does anyone in their right mind really think they will voluntarily leave and return?

There are many hardworking Hispanic/American citizens that contribute to our country and many that I consider my true friends. We should encourage and accept those Hispanics who have done it the right and legal way.

It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about "politically correct" that we don't have the will to do anything about it.

If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know.

CHEAP LABOR?
Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?

Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage

Consumers don't want expensive produce

Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs

But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth, a farce, and a lie. there is no such thing as "cheap labor."

Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or $6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free.

He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent

He qualifies for food stamps

He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care

His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school

He requires bilingual teachers and books

He qualifies for relief from high energy bills

If they are or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI. Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare. All of this is at taxpayer's expense

He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.

Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.

He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.

Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills and his.

The American taxpayer's also pay for increased crime, graffiti and trash clean-up.

Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT! Wake up people

[TailgateNut]

Your an idiot. So illegal immigrants are stealing the high paying jobs? Jobs are being outsourced because companies will go broke if they dont.

Low paying jobs due to the immigrants? First they are not immigrants moron. They are illegals. I never quoted any rosy picture, it's just that the it's the economy stupid mantra has calmed down for now.

Do you think that someone dropping off the unemployment charts happened 3 years ago? Your an idiot.

Your arguments are pathetic. BTW, he's not a p***Ycat. Your an idiot.

First of all you braindead ****, it's "you're an idiot".
Second: I didn't say illegal immigrants were stealing high paying job, I did however say they were helping to keep the wages down on many jobs.
Third they are immigrants (illegal or legal), check the definition.

im·mi·grant /ˈɪmɪgrənt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[im-i-gruhnt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a person who migrates to another country

Mock, you do need to go play with your pussy more often, it'll keep you from sounding like a moron!

[TailgateNut]

Tomatoes and Cheap Labor

Cheap Tomatoes
This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or Independent

From a California school teacher - - -"As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:

I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socioeconomic and income levels.

Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens, Huntington Park, etc., where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools.

Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students here in the country less then 3 months who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them "Putas" whores and throwing things that the teachers were in tears.

Free medical, free education, free food, day care etc., etc., etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?

To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.

Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases etc., etc, etc. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.

We need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a disaster because we won't have the guts to enforce it.
Does anyone in their right mind really think they will voluntarily leave and return?

There are many hardworking Hispanic/American citizens that contribute to our country and many that I consider my true friends. We should encourage and accept those Hispanics who have done it the right and legal way.

It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about "politically correct" that we don't have the will to do anything about it.

If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know.

CHEAP LABOR?
Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?

Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage

Consumers don't want expensive produce

Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs

But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth, a farce, and a lie. there is no such thing as "cheap labor."

Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or $6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free.

He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent

He qualifies for food stamps

He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care

His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school

He requires bilingual teachers and books

He qualifies for relief from high energy bills

If they are or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI. Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare. All of this is at taxpayer's expense

He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.

Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.

He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.

Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills and his.

The American taxpayer's also pay for increased crime, graffiti and trash clean-up.

Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT! Wake up people


Nice post about the realities of illegal immigration!

[RkyMtnThunder]

Illegals arent just picking veggies on farms or digging ditches. And not all good jobs are being outsourced over seas.

Illegals are taking up skilled labor positions at wages Americans cant work for. Compare an American journeyman bricklayer income to a Mexican - the Mexican will work for 1/2 the money paid under the table, the American is screwed cause he cant afford to make that low a salary not to mention the fact American pays income taxes unlike an illegal.

Illegals are also taking fast food jobs and other entry level jobs that used to go to our teenagers and retirees.

(companies hiring Illegals need to be shut down - period. The laws are too lax and fines too low when the profits made off cheap labor can offset such loss easily. Companies who hire illegals are the driving force behind this problem. If they didnt provide jobs, there wouldnt be nearly as many border jumpers)

I am sick to death of seeing an illegal working for $15/hr tax free, his wife at home with their 7 kids collecting welfare and food stamps - while he is driving around in a new $40k truck with a Mexican flag and sticker of Calvin pissing on 'La Migra' (Immigration)

I live in Phoenix - I see it every day - Illegals are here to leech off our system, they mock us and our culture, refuse to learn our language and assimilate into our society - show lack of respect for our parks and recreational areas and residential neighborhoods. I hate to say it, but they are dirty litterbugs and leave garbage everywhere they go. They think they are still in northern Mexico where no one thinks twice about using their front yard as a garbage dump. Anyone who has been to TJ or Rocky Point (Puerto Penasco) knows what I am talking about


The folks who wish to play by the rules, come to our country with the best intentions - these folks do it legally, learn our language, pay their taxes, obey the laws and make an honest effort at the American dream. More power to them!

The others - no sympathy to their 'plight'. None what so ever.

[Bronco Bob]

Here in Topeka, the illegals stage a rally at the Capitol every year. The police don't do anything about it except see that it's a peaceful rally. It's quite frustrating...

A lot of cops don't consider it their job to arrest them. They consider it a
Federal problem. If the Federal government isn't going to fund them for
their time and effort, why should they stick their necks out. They get
paid by the city to maintain order in the city, not do the Federal government's
job. The question you should be asking is where are the Federal agents
and why aren't they arresting these people.

[bendog]

What could the cops possibly do to them? IF the feds won't deport them, all arresting them does is cause your taxes to go up cause the cops have to feed them before they're turned loose again.

[Bronco Bob]

30 foot walls with motion sensored machine guns should do the trick.

Land mines with warning signs in Spanish.

[Bob]

I think it is amasing that right now we have federal boarder patrol officers that are in jail for doing their job -- they dared to shoot back in a gun fight. Another is in jail after he tried to shoot the tires out of a car (that was tring to run him over) shrapnel caused superficial wounds, now the illegals are suing. It is crazy.

I am surprised someone on this board hasnt called us un-American, bigots yet...

[Spider]

Criminals ? ok whatever

[cutthemdown]

If you want the border closed and no amnesty there are only a few cadidates that want that. I'm not even sure who they are.

[TailgateNut]

If you want the border closed and no amnesty there are only a few cadidates that want that. I'm not even sure who they are.


Tancredo is the only one who is 100% anti illegal immigration, but he doesn't have anything else going for him.

[clarkster]

personally, im torn on the issue.

yes theyre here illegally, and theyre taking jobs, and theyre not paying their taxes, but on the other hand, and only Americans can take care of this
Jobs, i dont know how many young people i talk to that leave the military, go try and find a job and decide that the jobs arent good enough. i guess my point is, Americans are pissed about them taking jobs and not paying taxes, but most young people have no concept of working for a living and having a ****ty job. like theyre above it. hell at least julios just happy to work, i remember the good old days when i was a temp laborer, and general laborer, and was ecstatic to have a job. not the case anymore. people talk about job shortages in the country, theres no shortage of work, just a shortage of people that will work no matter what.
i guess its easier to say "theres no job out there that meets my expectations" than it is to actually just get a job.
with that said, im fed up with these criminals demanding rights. even more pissed about the people that side with them.

[smalltowngrll]

For every $100 that is paid under the table:

$2.90 is NOT being paid into medicare
$12.40 is NOT being paid into SS
....countless more dollars are NOT being paid into Fed Withholding.


There are many that are here illegally that use fake SS#'s and do have taxes taken out. They typically will claim exempt so that they are only paying into SS and Medicare but no federal withholding. Unfortunately, the government ties the hands of the employers in this case. An employer can do a SS# verification, however DOL prohibits them from firing them if a job is already offered once they discover a SS# is invalid. Also, about a year after an initial payroll tax report is filed with SS#'s an employer will receive a notice from the IRS or Social Security Admin regarding SS#'s that are not valid. The employer is to obtain new or corrected SS#'s from those employees, however, they are not permitted to terminate their employment. Thus, the employee that might be there illegally just goes out, pays a few bucks and obtains a new SS#. Piece of cake. Unfortunately....the government ties the hands of the employers that are trying to hire correctly.

[Rohirrim]

The key issue for me is population control. I read one report that said that if all the illegals currently in the U.S. were allowed citizenship and the follow-up of bringing in family members and having children, that in less than forty years, they would add 60 million people to the U.S. population. Given that the uneducated (or undereducated) tend to have far more children than the educated, you would be looking at a total, social systems collapse. The truth is, no matter how Reuben Navarette wants to twist the numbers, illegal workers and uneducated workers do not pay into the system anywhere near what they take out.

Besides which, doesn't every country have the sovereign right to determine its own immigration policies? According to this flood of people coming from Mexico, and their supporters, we do not have that right.

[TailgateNut]

For every $100 that is paid under the table:

$2.90 is NOT being paid into medicare
$12.40 is NOT being paid into SS
....countless more dollars are NOT being paid into Fed Withholding.


There are many that are here illegally that use fake SS#'s and do have taxes taken out. They typically will claim exempt so that they are only paying into SS and Medicare but no federal withholding. Unfortunately, the government ties the hands of the employers in this case. An employer can do a SS# verification, however DOL prohibits them from firing them if a job is already offered once they discover a SS# is invalid. Also, about a year after an initial payroll tax report is filed with SS#'s an employer will receive a notice from the IRS or Social Security Admin regarding SS#'s that are not valid. The employer is to obtain new or corrected SS#'s from those employees, however, they are not permitted to terminate their employment. Thus, the employee that might be there illegally just goes out, pays a few bucks and obtains a new SS#. Piece of cake. Unfortunately....the government ties the hands of the employers that are trying to hire correctly.


Say Whaaat? I can't fire someone if his documents are false! BS!!!!!Take my ass to court!!!

[TailgateNut]

The key issue for me is population control. I read one report that said that if all the illegals currently in the U.S. were allowed citizenship and the follow-up of bringing in family members and having children, that in less than forty years, they would add 60 million people to the U.S. population. Given that the uneducated (or undereducated) tend to have far more children than the educated, you would be looking at a total, social systems collapse. The truth is, no matter how Reuben Navarette wants to twist the numbers, illegal workers and uneducated workers do not pay into the system anywhere near what they take out.

Besides which, doesn't every country have the sovereign right to determine its own immigration policies? According to this flood of people coming from Mexico, and their supporters, we do not have that right.


DING DING DING!!!!
Another great post!

[bendog]

I agree with everything, but I'm also troubled by the fact that our official govt policy since the 1980s, when Alan Simpson tried to sort this out, has been to encourage illegal immigration. So, I don't really view these folks as "criminals." yeah, they broke the law, but the law's a joke. It's like am I supposed to tell somebody that smoking a joint is wrong? Yeah, it's against the law, and yeah some pretty nasty folks are involved with bringing pot into the US, but make the law sane, and those problems go away.

I'd hope the congress offers some kind of amnesty. Bushii's plan of making people leave, and then pay 10grand to get back in is laughable. But, we do need the workers. We could make some effort to document who has a valid right to a job, and penalize people who hire people who don't. And we could make it illegal to hire people at less than the prevailing wage in a given occupation. Yes, I know no system is foolproof. Look at the Virgina Tech murders. People who've been in psych hospitals aren't supposed to buy guns. But there's no sense in not trying to make the issue better because there's no ideal solution.

And we could condition the right to work with taking English classes and becoming a citizen.

And, we could stop having free trade with countries that don't let workers unionize.

[Spider]

Problem is , labeling someone a criminal that is trying to feed his family , Just like the machine gun and land mine comments ............ Yeah kill the bastard for trying to provide for his family ........ ****ing scumbag deserves to die ........ Meanwhile companies that hire these evil bastards , making these scumbags come over with the lure of a better life doesnt even get mentioned ..........some times I am amazed on how stupid we can be as a people ......

[clarkster]

Problem is , labeling someone a criminal that is trying to feed his family , Just like the machine gun and land mine comments ............ Yeah kill the bastard for trying to provide for his family ........ ****ing scumbag deserves to die ........ Meanwhile companies that hire these evil bastards , making these scumbags come over with the lure of a better life doesnt even get mentioned ..........some times I am amazed on how stupid we can be as a people ......

when push comes to shove, im all about a mexican coming over to provide his family a better life, work for a living, live the american dream etc etc, then go about it the right way, pay your taxes, get legit. easy to say not easy to do i understand, but the fact remains, theyre here illegally, and theyve had opportunities for amnesty, and they all have the same opportunity to get ligit, but alot of them dont and wont. and to demand the rights of a citizen when youre not a citizen is ridiculous to me.
at some point the US had a welcome mat, and that was when people would act as guests here, until they got on their feet. now theyre like the brother in law that wont leave, wont split the bills, and keeps borrowing your car. thats what it seems like to me.

[alkemical]

Pretty soon us Americans will be sneaking across the border to find jobs. Of course, if you're caught in Mexico illegally, they lock you up for a year. No questions asked.

Actually with the new North American Union (http://www.spp.gov), i can also get a guest worker pass and freely then go to Mexico or Canada to look for work. With the dollar collapse, it should open the door to the new Amero (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53350). So actually, we can go take our jobs back in Mexico! ;)

[Spider]

when push comes to shove, im all about a mexican coming over to provide his family a better life, work for a living, live the american dream etc etc, then go about it the right way, pay your taxes, get legit. easy to say not easy to do i understand, but the fact remains, theyre here illegally, and theyve had opportunities for amnesty, and they all have the same opportunity to get ligit, but alot of them dont and wont. and to demand the rights of a citizen when youre not a citizen is ridiculous to me.
at some point the US had a welcome mat, and that was when people would act as guests here, until they got on their feet. now theyre like the brother in law that wont leave, wont split the bills, and keeps borrowing your car. thats what it seems like to me.

More then that , you have to blame agricultural America , it isnt these illegals fault , they dont pay taxes , once again it is employers looking for cheap labor , it isnt so much the $ per hour , it is the workmans comp , added with the hourly wage , as much as I hate to say it , take a look at toyota motor companies , they are highly successfull and doing it right without hiring illegals...... ...... universal healthcare would pull GM and ford out of the fire , help out on illegal immigration , by eliminating workmans comp and health care bennies ...........

[alkemical]

I have cyborgs.

They are tractors you can nap in that turn around on gps while you nap.


Mock,

Do you use New Holland/Case farm equipment? (http://www.newhollandmediakit.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=newsreleases.DisplayNewsRelea ses&NewsID=129)

[clarkster]

More then that , you have to blame agricultural America , it isnt these illegals fault , they dont pay taxes , once again it is employers looking for cheap labor , it isnt so much the $ per hour , it is the workmans comp , added with the hourly wage , as much as I hate to say it , take a look at toyota motor companies , they are highly successfull and doing it right without hiring illegals...... ...... universal healthcare would pull GM and ford out of the fire , help out on illegal immigration , by eliminating workmans comp and health care bennies ...........

absolutely, and thats what i eluded to earlier. Americans have to be willing to take the work. and on the flip side, americans have to be willing to pay americans for the work.

[Bob]

If the Goevrnement wanted to close the boarder they could (ar at least stop 90% of the folks) I can only imagin how the denver Post would portray all of the huddled masses, and focus of the work side in the attempt to convert all of us to the no boarders kind of folks they are.

The only thing that we should do (after we really close the boarder) is make the process much, much faster for folks who want to come over and work legally. Right now, i believe that the wait time is 7 years (correct me if I am wrong) If they can make more tamer resistant ID cards, close the boarder, make it easier to come over, then the rest of the folks trying to sneak in at that point would be drug smugglers, or worse -- arrest those folks.

Anyone here af the Dog the Bounty Hunter story?

[Spider]

Anyone here af the Dog the Bounty Hunter story?

yeah I did , you cant circumvent the law to enforce the law ...........

[clarkster]

yeah I did , you cant circumvent the law to enforce the law ...........

yeah, you cant, however, it comes down to what evil are you willing to deal with. he took the hard way(do it, deal with repercussions) vice the easy way(sorry i cant do anything about that), and i salute him.

[Spider]

yeah, you cant, however, it comes down to what evil are you willing to deal with. he took the hard way(do it, deal with repercussions) vice the easy way(sorry i cant do anything about that), and i salute him.
...........Mexico is a very corrupt place , Dog could have placed some American hundred dollar bills in to the right peoples pockets , he could have got away with this ..........Hell in alot of towns in northern Mexico , the police use cars stolen in America recovered in mexico as police vehicles ..........Dog could have got this guy ,skated free , but he cowboyed it up for the glory in the wrong country ..............

[W*GS]

Lexington

American idiocracy
Mar 22nd 2007
From The Economist print edition

Why the immigration system needs urgent fixing

One of the many memorable scenes in “The Namesake”, an excellent new film based on Jhumpa Lahiri's book and directed by Mira Nair of “Monsoon Wedding” fame, deals with a young Bengali bride and a bowl of Rice Krispies. The young woman has swapped her happy life and extended family in Calcutta for an arranged marriage and a lonely apartment in New York. When her husband, Ashoke Ganguli, leaves home early to work on his PhD thesis, she is left alone to grapple with the mystery of the American breakfast. She fills a bowl with Rice Krispies—and then covers them with curry powder and peanuts.

“The Namesake” is a moving study of the human side of immigration. But it is also a success story. Mr Ganguli snags an academic job, fathers two perfect children, moves to the suburbs and acquires an entourage of Bengali friends. His son, who is lumbered with the name Gogol Ganguli, studies architecture at Yale and acquires an All-American girlfriend, rich, blonde and well-connected.

Mr Ganguli is part of a huge army of immigrants who have brought their brains and enthusiasm to the United States—not just Indians and Pakistanis but also Chinese, Koreans and Europeans. America's high-tech industries are powered by foreign brains. Almost a third of Silicon Valley start-ups since 1995 were founded by Indians or Chinese. They also power America's great universities, particularly the science departments. About 40% of people earning PhDs in computer science and engineering are foreign-born.

You might imagine that America would welcome such talented people. But the national debate on immigration has recently acquired a bilious tone, focused overwhelmingly on the threat of illegal immigration. A country that has been built on immigrant labour is now building fences and demonising foreigners, almost as if it did not need them.

America also makes life difficult for them. Since the mid-1960s the immigration system has been skewed to uniting families rather than to attracting talent. And in recent years it has been driven by a combination of fear of terrorism and rising protectionism. In 2003 Congress reduced the number of H1B visas (temporary visas for highly skilled workers) from about 200,000—well below the number needed—to 65,000.

Potential graduate students and high-tech workers tell nightmare stories of waiting for months for the right bits of paper. And high-tech companies relentlessly complain about not being able to get visas for some of the world's best brains. A few attempts have been made to fix the system. Bill Gates and other high-tech barons have lobbied Congress to create a more flexible process and make it easier for foreign students to stay in America on graduation. But so far all attempts to sort out legal immigration have been swamped by Congress's inability to deal with the illegal kind.

America's legal immigration system is falling apart at just the time when talented foreigners have more choice than ever. Many other countries—including Australia, Canada, Britain, Germany and even France—are bending over backwards to attract talented people. European companies can easily draw on the skills of an entire continent, thanks to the free movement of labour there. At the same time the Indian and Chinese economies are booming. Indian companies such as Infosys and Wipro have California-style campuses, state-of-the-art equipment and generous pay packets (which, incidentally, allow employees to afford a house full of servants). American multinationals such as Microsoft are establishing research and development facilities across the developing world. Indians and Chinese were once willing to put up with any humiliation for a chance of a career in the United States. Now they have more and more choices back home.

Missing two worlds
This raises once again the main theme of “The Namesake”—the human side of immigration. The film reminds its audience that immigration is a traumatic experience as well as a liberating one. This is not just because leaving the rest of your family half a world away is hard. It is also because it poses difficult questions of identity.

Mr Ganguli and his wife find their children becoming strangers to them—revelling in American pop culture and embarrassed by the Bengali community's idiosyncratic ways. But the children also endure a hidden war between their Bengali and American selves. Gogol at first turns his back on his immigrant family, finding it much more glamorous to hang out with his girlfriend's family in Manhattan and Oyster Bay, before rediscovering his Bengali roots when his father dies. His mother returns to Calcutta with an immigrant's lament: she has spent the past 25 years missing India and will spend the next 25 missing America.

There are still good reasons for immigrants to put themselves through all this. America has the world's greatest universities and biggest opportunities for the truly talented. But American officialdom needs to stop thinking that people will tolerate any humiliation to work there. Uprooting yourself from your native culture is difficult enough, without having to deal with unnecessary bureaucratic obstacles. America also needs to realise what will happen if the immigrants stop coming. University departments will grind to a halt. High-tech companies will be starved of personnel. New York could find itself eclipsed by London as the world's financial hub.

“The Namesake” is worth watching for many reasons. It is a compelling study of personal identity. It features some of the most talented Indian actors in the business. But it is also an excuse for a thought experiment: imagine how much poorer America would be without the likes of Mr Ganguli.

Copyright © 2007 The Economist Newspaper and The Economist Group. All rights reserved.

[Rohirrim]

I have no disagreement at all with rigging our immigration system to go after the best and brightest from all over the world. To me, that is the recipe for future success. To allow the quotas to be filled with the uneducated and the poor is to invite disaster.

[clarkster]

...........Mexico is a very corrupt place , Dog could have placed some American hundred dollar bills in to the right peoples pockets , he could have got away with this ..........Hell in alot of towns in northern Mexico , the police use cars stolen in America recovered in mexico as police vehicles ..........Dog could have got this guy ,skated free , but he cowboyed it up for the glory in the wrong country ..............

true, his arrogance kind of got him into trouble.

[smalltowngrll]

Say Whaaat? I can't fire someone if his documents are false! BS!!!!!Take my ass to court!!!

Just giving you the law. I think it stinks. But, for a big company (say a mill or manufacturer) they can't risk the liabiilty of a discriminiation suit. The docs from the IRS specifically state you can't terminate employment. The burden of proof would be upon the employer to PROVE the docs are fake. That's not an easy task, honestly. It's easy for you and I to say that, but a company has to cover their butt's. Trust me, it sucks. I've been in the situation as a representative of a company! The key for an employer is to not make an offer of a job until you KNOW the docs are legit.

It's the same thing as requiring a drug test. If you make an offer prior to requiring a pre-screen drug test and the applicant fails, you've already made the offer, you can't just terminate. But, if you require the test prior to making the offer, then you are free to not make an offer of employment if they fail! Catch 22...stupid laws! :oyvey:

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Police to review clash at May Day rally (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070502/ap_on_re_us/immigration_protests_48)
By PETER PRENGAMAN, Associated Press Writer Wed May 2

LOS ANGELES - A day of mostly calm immigration rallies around the nation ended with a clash in Los Angeles where officers fired rubber bullets and used batons against demonstrators. Police promised to review the use of force.


http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070502/capt.f949f8381e414771b705a47a451b7d07.immigration_ protests_txeg105.jpg?x=264&y=345&sig=4LYAErif9Vz22G9SQ7lb4w--
Sara Reyes and other demonstrators take part in a rally and march to protest immigration policies in San Antonio, Tuesday, May 1, 2007. (AP Photo/Eric Gay)

Several people, including about a dozen officers, were hurt during skirmishes at MacArthur Park near downtown late Tuesday. About 10 people were taken to hospitals for treatment of injuries including cuts, authorities said. None of the injuries was believed to be serious.

At least one person was arrested, Officer Mike Lopez said late Tuesday.

May Day marches in Los Angeles brought out about 25,000 people, only a fraction of the 650,000 who rallied last year. Turnout nationwide was also light compared with a year ago.

Organizers said fear about raids and frustration that the marches haven't pushed Congress to pass reform kept many people at home. They said those who did march felt a sense of urgency to keep immigration reform from being overshadowed by the 2008 presidential elections.

The clash at MacArthur Park started after 6 p.m. when police tried to disperse demonstrators who had moved off the sidewalk onto the street. Authorities said several people of the few thousand still at the rally threw rocks and bottles at officers, who fired rubber bullets and used batons to push the crowd back onto the sidewalk.

"(Police) started moving in and forcing them out of the park, people with children, strollers," said Angela Sambrano, one of the rally's organizers.

Maria Elena Durazo, the executive secretary-treasurer at the Los Angeles County Federation of Labor, said the trouble was instigated by "a group of anarchists, not associated with the rally." She also criticized the police response, saying the rubber bullets were fired on a peaceful crowd with little warning.

Police Chief William Bratton said "certain elements of the crowd" started the disturbance, but the "vast, vast majority of the people who were here were behaving appropriately."

He promised an investigation to "determine if the use of force was appropriate."

Spanish-language TV station Telemundo said one of its reporters and three camera operators had been injured and taken to the hospital by police. Fox 11 aired video of a station camerawoman apparently being struck by a baton-wielding police officer in riot gear.

Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, who was traveling in
El Salvador during a trade mission, said the incident was "a most unfortunate end to a peaceful day."

Though fewer in number, protesters marched in cities from Miami to Detroit to San Antonio. Many of those waving flags, chanting, and carrying hand-painted signs said they were frustrated by what they see as little progress.

In Chicago, where more than 400,000 swarmed the streets last year, police put initial estimates at 150,000, by far the country's largest turnout.

Magda Ortiz, a 27-year-old legal resident from Mexico and mother of two, pushed through crowds on the city's lakefront with a stroller bearing a sign that read: "Bush, think about the moms. Stop the raids."

March organizers had long predicted lower turnouts, blaming stepped-up raids, frustration that Congress hasn't passed immigration reform and an effort by many groups to shift their focus from street mobilizations to citizenship and voter registration drives.

"There's no reason a pro-immigration bill can't be passed. That's one of the messages being sent today," said Chicago protester Shaun Harkin, 34, of Northern Ireland, who has lived in the United States as a legal resident for 15 years.

After last year's marches, which drew a million-plus protesters, the Senate passed a sweeping bill that would have provided a path to citizenship for many of the nation's 12 million illegal immigrants. But the bill was never reconciled with the then-Republican-controlled House, and legislation has languished since last summer. Subsequent bipartisan proposals have gotten more conservative.

[Stormontheplains]

Why cant we take this issue to a national vote on a proposed policy that way it is the will of the american people and niether party will lose the votes they hold so near to their heart. Signs in spanish, the mexican flag, and one side said united states of mexico. Let the will of the american people speak through their vote, not that of a rep worried about getting re elected

[Bob]

I think that some of you may be wrong on Dog the Bounty Hunter issue. First, its not like I am a big fan, and watch the guy every night (I have seen the show maybe twice.) The facts are what scares me.

First, he want down to Mexico to get an American who had committed over 70 rapes. This very rich rapist (the heir to Max Factor) was throwing money around the local corrupt government to keep himself safe from prosecution. When he was arrested, he was found to have the same date rape drugs in Mexico.

The charge against the Dog was that he restained this criminal against his will (a misdomeaner in Mexico) requireing a $130.00 fine, which Dog paid. The Dog first went to the police authorities, and brought the cops with him. They arrested the bad guy, and the Dog took the criminal to the Mexian police station (he did not kid nap the guy, and take him over the Mexican boarder into America.)

The Dog was fined for deprevation of rights --not kidnapping, he paid the fine. later (after the statute of limitations had run out) he got a letter from a lawyer in Mexico basically threatening him to pay a very heafty fine, and they would leave him alone. ( I think it was around 200,000) The Dog said no, and shortly therafter he was charged with kidknapping, a felony.

It is very intresting to me, that around the same time (the same day actually) that the Dog was served these papers, the American government received several high-profile mexican criminals that had commited several crimes in America they had been tring to get deported.

Several issues here. 1. statute of limitations (several months after)
2. The Dog did commit a crime, paid the fine, and later the crime was changed to a felony (after he didnt bribe) he has that letter by the way
3. The Dog is being sacrificed to the Mexican goverement in a trade by the two goverenments
4. The Dog would be miudered in a Mexican jail, there is not a seperate place for criminals that are at high risk for assault in Mexico.
5. An attempt was made to follow the laws of the country, by contacting and using local law officers. But the folks in that local goverenment were upset, as this Max Factor hier was a cash cow for him

This whole thing stinks! Please take the time to read up on the issue. I also believe that Mexico has the right to have people obey thier own laws, and we should respect that, in this case for the above reasons I say hell no.

[Dukes]

Problem is , labeling someone a criminal that is trying to feed his family , Just like the machine gun and land mine comments ............ Yeah kill the bastard for trying to provide for his family ........ ****ing scumbag deserves to die ........ Meanwhile companies that hire these evil bastards , making these scumbags come over with the lure of a better life doesnt even get mentioned ..........some times I am amazed on how stupid we can be as a people ......

Fine, but don't start crying when Spanish becomes the national language one day.

"Press one for English"...... Why the hell should I have to press one for English?

[bendog]

Guy the Dog took down is a damn rapist. Hopefully somebody will tell the Dept of State to tell Mexico to go to hell on this one.

[alkemical]

Fine, but don't start crying when Spanish becomes the national language one day.

"Press one for English"...... Why the hell should I have to press one for English?

Would you rather press "2"?

[Dukes]

Would you rather press "2"?

I'd rather there isn't an option for spanish all together. If they want to be citizens of this country, they should learn the national language.

[Spider]

Fine, but don't start crying when Spanish becomes the national language one day.

"Press one for English"...... Why the hell should I have to press one for English?
take your stupidity and Drama elsewhere ................ I am more pissed off that I cant get food in Texas without Jalapeños on every damn thing ............ what pushing 1 to complex for you ? Maybe you can get a tutor to help ........

[Spider]

I think that some of you may be wrong on Dog the Bounty Hunter issue. First, its not like I am a big fan, and watch the guy every night (I have seen the show maybe twice.) The facts are what scares me.

First, he want down to Mexico to get an American who had committed over 70 rapes. This very rich rapist (the heir to Max Factor) was throwing money around the local corrupt government to keep himself safe from prosecution. When he was arrested, he was found to have the same date rape drugs in Mexico.

The charge against the Dog was that he restained this criminal against his will (a misdomeaner in Mexico) requireing a $130.00 fine, which Dog paid. The Dog first went to the police authorities, and brought the cops with him. They arrested the bad guy, and the Dog took the criminal to the Mexian police station (he did not kid nap the guy, and take him over the Mexican boarder into America.)

The Dog was fined for deprevation of rights --not kidnapping, he paid the fine. later (after the statute of limitations had run out) he got a letter from a lawyer in Mexico basically threatening him to pay a very heafty fine, and they would leave him alone. ( I think it was around 200,000) The Dog said no, and shortly therafter he was charged with kidknapping, a felony.

It is very intresting to me, that around the same time (the same day actually) that the Dog was served these papers, the American government received several high-profile mexican criminals that had commited several crimes in America they had been tring to get deported.

Several issues here. 1. statute of limitations (several months after)
2. The Dog did commit a crime, paid the fine, and later the crime was changed to a felony (after he didnt bribe) he has that letter by the way
3. The Dog is being sacrificed to the Mexican goverement in a trade by the two goverenments
4. The Dog would be miudered in a Mexican jail, there is not a seperate place for criminals that are at high risk for assault in Mexico.
5. An attempt was made to follow the laws of the country, by contacting and using local law officers. But the folks in that local goverenment were upset, as this Max Factor hier was a cash cow for him

This whole thing stinks! Please take the time to read up on the issue. I also believe that Mexico has the right to have people obey thier own laws, and we should respect that, in this case for the above reasons I say hell no.

Man it is like this , when I am down on the boarder , my redneck ass knows I am not in America no more , I cross over , I play by their rules ...........

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Would you rather press "2"?Is that the Mexican call center?

[alkemical]

I'd rather there isn't an option for spanish all together. If they want to be citizens of this country, they should learn the national language.

Si.

[alkemical]

Is that the Mexican call center?

No, that would be Dos.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

No, that would be Dos.

Well, I'm confused now, no wonder I have problems with customer service so often.

[alkemical]

Well, I'm confused now, no wonder I have problems with customer service so often.

Go see the front desk, they have a map. We aren't authorized to help you with that concern.

[Rascal]

Reminds me of a dilbert cartoon.

Wally goes to the basement to get help on a payroll problem:

Wally: Are you the troll that handles our payroll system? I have a problem.
Troll: Problems are handled by our automated sadistic phone system.
Wally uses the phone nearby and listens to the options.
Phone: For tech support, press the exact value of 22 divided by 7.

[El Minion]

Countdown commences for El Minion to show up with a three page screed...10, 9, 8, ...


ROFL! To quote Sally Field "I can't deny the fact that you like me! You like me!"....but humor aside and not to disappoint Rohirrim here is some non-screed that I was going to post on the thread about 11yr old mortally shooting her assailants, I'll post it here for you to ignore.


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<h2>Memo to Bill O'Reilly: More immigrants equals less crime</h2>
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<b>Bill O'Reilly and Geraldo Rivera got into a screaming match about an illegal alien accused of manslaughter. Is there a link between illegal aliens and crime?</b>
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<p><b>By Alex Koppelman</b></p>

<font face="times new roman, times, serif" size="3"><p>Apr. 10, 2007 | It was the video that burned up the Internet on Friday -- <a href="http://dir.salon.com/topics/fox_news/">Fox News</a> hosts Bill O'Reilly and Geraldo Rivera, normally amicable foes, if not allies, screaming at each other on the set of "The O'Reilly Factor" with such ferocity they seemed <a target="new" href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=tLPuGuaZTx8">likely to come to blows.</a> At issue was the case of Alfredo Ramos, an illegal immigrant who allegedly killed two teen girls while driving drunk in Virginia Beach, Va. O'Reilly argued that the two teens would not have been killed had Ramos been deported, while Rivera contended that O'Reilly was "obscuring a tragedy to score a cheap political point." Rivera also claimed that "illegal aliens commit crimes at a lower rate than citizens do." </p>

<p>On Monday, Salon spoke with professor Robert J. Sampson, chairman of the sociology department at Harvard University and most prominent member of a new school of academics who say that, contrary to widespread public belief, immigrants may actually be the secret to <i>decreasing</i> crime in the U.S. Sampson et al. believe their research shows immigrants are <a target="new" href="http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/soc/faculty/sampson/articles/2006_NYT_OpenDoors.pdf">less likely</a> to commit crime than native-born Americans, and that immigration itself may actually play a role in lowering the overall crime rate. Salon asked Sampson to rate O'Reilly and Rivera as debaters, and to explain what his research says about immigrants and Americans' perceptions of them. </p>

<p><b>What did you think of <a href="http://dir.salon.com/topics/bill_oreilly/">Bill O'Reilly</a>'s arguments? </b> </p>

<p>Well, I wasn't terribly surprised -- I think it's emblematic of a larger way in which these incidents are often perceived, and I think he was thrown off by being confronted with what I thought was a pretty logical argument on Rivera's part ... So basically the way I would interpret it is as follows: [O'Reilly] was interpreting this particular incident, which, of course, is horrible, only from the lens of thinking about the person as an illegal immigrant, rather than actually confronting the data, which show that in fact immigrants, illegal aliens, are disproportionately less likely to be involved in many acts of deviance, crime, drunk driving, any number of things that sort of imperil our well-being. And so what he was doing was starting with the category of the person -- illegal -- and inferring from that things that don't follow. </p>

<p>In my opinion, this is sort of typical ... unfortunately, for many Americans it seems that the old adage has basically been turned around. Believing is seeing. And I think in this case O'Reilly has a particular perception and belief [about a] category [of person], which then influenced the way he saw and interpreted this particular event, and Rivera called him on it, and he got upset, obviously. </p>

<p><b>But on some fundamental level, doesn't O'Reilly have a point -- this wouldn't have happened had Alfredo Ramos not been living in this country, right? </b> </p>

<p>That's true. And you can follow that logic out for a lot of different things; when I teach my crime classes, I often say, "Well, we can basically eliminate <a href="http://dir.salon.com/topics/crime/">crime,</a> right? If we really wanted to, we could abort all male babies. That would reduce the crime rate to pretty much zero in the future." </p>

<p>So yes, you can think of counterfactuals -- if a category of persons were not actually here, then yes, the crime would not have been committed. But let's extend that logic: If the majority of people who are in the category of producing most drunk-driving homicides or deaths were not in the country then by definition the rate of drunk-driving deaths would be reduced. So who is that? Well, they're young people, disproportionately male, disproportionately white, mainly suburban ... The perception and the stereotype is what's driving the argument, not the data. </p>

<p><b>What have you found in your research about the relation of immigration to the crime rate? </b> </p>

<p>In our research, which is based on over 10 years of data collection and analysis of a long-term study in Chicago, our findings tend to be quite similar to other research showing that first-generation immigrants have lower rates of crime, particularly violent crime. In particular, first-generation immigrants, that is, people born outside the country, are much less likely to commit violence, in our data about 45 percent less likely than third-generation immigrants. In turn, second-generation immigrants are about a quarter less likely to commit crime than third-generation. </p>

<p>So, in other words, native Americans, those born here and whose parents are born here, are the most violent and the most criminal. And that's not just our data, this is other data. Immigrants are less likely to be imprisoned relative to their numbers; Latinos, in particular, even though they enter the country being disproportionately poor, which would signal, based on everything else we know, that they would have a high risk for all sorts of negative outcomes, including [poor] health, low-birth-weight babies, incarceration, violence and so forth, [are less likely to be imprisoned]. They are doing rather well in many dimensions, and this has led to what is known in the literature as "the Latino paradox." And the paradox is just that -- even though they are disproportionately poor and have all kinds of risk factors, they are doing better in many dimensions. So that particular finding in our data I think is consistent. </p>

<p>Then one can look at all kinds of other data. I would point to two broad trends. One, if you look at the crime rate or the violence rate, or in particular, one which we can measure very well in the United States, let's take homicide, where in almost all cases there's a body, so we know how to measure it pretty well. Immigration was exploding, literally, in the United States, going up by the millions -- no one disputes this -- in the '90s. I've produced charts showing that as that was going up, violence was going down at a very rapid rate. In fact, the two lines are pretty much inverse to each other. Now, that doesn't prove causation, but it certainly shows that the common perception that as immigration goes up that crime will also go up is just not true. </p>

<p>And then if you look at the cities that are by all accounts immigrant inflows, or border cities in particular, such as El Paso [Texas] or San Diego, Tucson [Ariz.] or other cities, they are not our leaders in violence by any means. In fact, those cities have done quite well. It typically, historically, continues to be cities with high proportions of native Americans that have the high homicide rates, whether it be Baltimore, Detroit, Atlanta or Washington, D.C. </p>

<p><b>Do the trends for immigrants hold true for illegal aliens in particular? Was Geraldo Rivera right about illegal aliens committing less crime?</b> </p>

<p>It's hard to break out that precise figure, because of the uncertainty. First of all, we're not even allowed, because there are certain restrictions placed on our research, to ask about someone's immigration status. </p>

<p>But ... it certainly would track in our data, in most data. If you think about it, the national trend, an over 50 percent increase in immigration flow over the last 10 or more years, has also been highly correlated with the influx of illegals, so you're finding an influx in both and so the pattern would be similar, and that's my read of the data. Similarly, in Chicago, the neighborhoods we studied that were immigrant enclaves, they were also where you found illegal immigrants ... So to the extent that the patterns hold that link immigration to lower crime, then I think it would also hold for illegal immigrants. </p>

<p><b>What is it about immigrants, do you think, that makes them less likely to commit crime? </b> </p>

<p>There are several things that I would point to. One is just a simple selection factor, as we would call it in the academic literature. What that means is that the pool of people that are coming into the country are selected on certain characteristics, such as wanting to get ahead in the United States, and that's associated with working hard, keeping out of trouble, keeping their heads down. Then it's not terribly surprising, if you think about it, that people who are coming here to better their lives would not necessarily be picking up and doing crime right away. It's a selection factor that makes a lot of sense. </p>

<p>And this is not just from Mexico, but if you're thinking about immigration from around the world. That's another factor, I think, that in any story about immigration has to be emphasized, that this is now something that is going on in all ethnic groups. </p>

<p>Secondly, and related to it, there's less incentive to commit crime, and greater sanctions, because of course one can be deported, and one doesn't want to draw attention to oneself. </p>

<p>Third, I think there's a family structure relationship here, in that the immigrants, at least in our data, are much more likely to be in intact families. In Chicago, for example, the Mexican-Americans are more likely to be married even than whites, and family structure is related to the risk of certain outcomes among offspring in our data and [that of other researchers]. So the fact that there are more intact families is, I think, part of the explanation, which of course also points out an irony in the anti-immigrant onslaught from the far right. David Brooks has <a target="new" href="http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10613F93E540C738FDDAA0894DE4044 82&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fSubjects%2fI% 2fImmigration%20and%20Refugees">written about this.</a> If one views family intactness as "family values," then one would be actually in favor of more immigration. That's an interesting irony there. </p>

<p>Fourth ... increasing immigration has been associated with changes in cities in particular. We've seen this rebuilding and economic boom in part, I believe, due to immigration. That is something that would lead to lower crime. </p>

<p>And lastly, which is a little bit more speculative on my part, but I think it's an interesting hypothesis to consider, is that a lot of violence in American cities is associated with subcultures of honor. The notion [is] that a lot of homicides, in particular, derive from disputes over honor and a sense of perceived insult. And that sort of honor system or cultural system, if it exists, then to the extent that is diluted by immigration, then one would expect lower crime rates. At the very least, you would think that immigrants are less exposed to that, because of the tendency to settle in immigrant enclave areas. And in fact another irony in all of this is that there are many scholars who attribute the subculture of violence and honor of violence in American society to Scottish-Irish dueling culture that was brought over centuries ago. Now, that's also sort of a <a target="new" href="http://www.newstatesman.com/200004030029">speculative hypothesis,</a> but there are a lot of people who buy into it, the notion that the culture of violence is brought over by the white immigrants, the <a target="new" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots-Irish_American">Scots-Irish,</a> who settled in the South, South Carolina and other areas, and then diffused into the inner city. </p>

<p><b>Have you looked back at previous immigrant groups and seen whether they had similar patterns in terms of crime? </b> </p>

<p>Yeah, the data are pretty consistent with this, and if you look back at the criminological literature, even going way back, you can see this as well, where first-generation kids were doing better. </p>

<p>So again, it's not a new finding, and that's why I think that the question really as to why this is generating the kinds of responses that you see, and that this video kind of captures, the fury, the question really is why the fury? </p>

<p>I've argued, and some of our data on another topic, really, but it bears on this, shows that there are these deep perceptions that are linked not just to immigrant groups but also to racial minority groups in the United States. [These perceptions] are tenacious, and they hold regardless of what the data actually tell us. So, for example, we've done studies where we've videotaped very slowly, going down the street, each side of the block, videotaping the amount of disorder -- for example, the number of people drinking in the street, or the number of broken windows, graffiti, vacant houses and so forth -- and also measured the crime rate in the community, and then asked people about their perceptions of the exact same thing that we're looking at, and we can objectively measure through videotapes. </p>

<p>What we find is huge, huge effects of the racial and immigrant composition of the population and what people perceive to be a problem. The way it works is that the more there is a concentration of blacks, Latinos and immigrants, the more people perceive disorder to be a problem. That's pretty interesting, and a bit sad. </p>

<p>Furthermore, we found that [perception] to be true [among] all groups. This is not a story about, "Oh, whites are the bad guys who perceive these groups to be linked to disorder." All groups, actually -- Latinos and blacks and whites, Asians -- were all exposed to the cultural stereotypes in the society, and so what's happening, I think, is that there's this implicit and deep-rooted sense [among all groups] that low-income and immigrant groups are inevitably associated with certain characteristics. </p>

<p><b>What's the reaction been to your research? </b> </p>

<p>It's kind of been all over the map. I've gotten gratifying support and confirmation in the sense of scientific data from other studies, and I've been able to give a number of talks and I think present the data in a way that has hopefully shed some light on the beliefs in the country that have, I think, gone some ways toward counteracting some of the stereotypes. And of course I've gotten lots of angry diatribes as well from people who are angry, don't believe the data, think that it's untrue, that I have some kind of sinister agenda. I've gotten vile e-mails, hate mails, threats, that kind of stuff as well. So that's not been pleasant, of course. </p>

<p><b>Is it that they just don't want to believe that what you're saying could be true? </b> </p>

<p>I think that's the biggest part of it. There's almost a sense of outrage because it's obviously not true, and therefore how could I say it? That's the feeling among some. </p>

<p>I'm talking about serious reactions. I've gotten reactions on the order of somebody who wrote something like, "You need to pass your research out so Mexicans can wipe their asses in the streets where they're ****ting." That kind of stuff, you can't take that seriously. </p>

</font></p>

<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2" color="000000">
<p align="right">
<b> -- By Alex Koppelman</b>
</p>

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Memo to Bill O'Reilly: More immigrants equals less crimeUh, we're talking about criminals (illegal immigrants).


Illegal aliens have higher incarceration rate than US as a whole. (http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/03/illegal_aliens_have_higher_inc.php)
n immigration reform organization has published a study that indicates there is a higher incidence of crime among illegal aliens than in the population of the United States as a whole.
The study by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) was conducted in response to studies by certain academic researchers and think tanks, whose data showed a lower incidence of crime among immigrants than among native-born Americans.

FAIR's Ira Mehlman says those scholars and think tanks' findings are misleading, as they included crime statistics from legal immigrants, who are very thoroughly vetted and have much lower crime rates. But that is not the case for illegal aliens, he asserts.

"Illegal immigrants come across the border without any sort of inspection, without any permission," Mehlman points out. "And, not surprisingly, there is a much higher incidence of crime among illegal immigrants than there is among the rest of the population," he says.

Also, Mehlman notes, a high percentage of gang activity is perpetrated by illegal aliens. "Those are primarily illegal immigrant gangs," he explains. "The MS-13, which is a Salvadoran-based gang, the 18th Street Gang, which is a Mexican gang -- these are the new mafias that are springing up all across the United States."

And while illegal aliens represent just under three percent of the overall United States population, they represent over four and a half percent of the overall prison population, the FAIR spokesman points out. "What we found was that, nationwide, the incidence of illegals aliens being in the prison system is about twice the size that you would expect from the overall U.S. population," he says.

The evidence uncovered in FAIR's study "basically points to the fact that, if you've got illegal aliens in your community, you should expect a higher rate of crime from them as opposed to the rest of the community," Mehlman says.

The study released by FAIR clarifies what the group claims is misleading data from academics and think tanks, whose research shows the overall crime rate is lower among immigrants than among native born Americans. When researchers isolate illegal alien criminal activity rather than looking at the entire immigrant population in the U.S., Mehlman notes, the crime rate is much higher.

---------------------------------------------------------
Feds pay $5.8 billion to jail criminal aliens (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44184)
Government study over past 3 years reveals burden borne by taxpayers

The U.S. federal government spent $5.8 billion over the past three years to incarcerate criminal aliens – nonresidents who are in the country illegally or legally and convicted of a crime.

The report by the General Accounting Office – the investigative arm of Congress – shows the number of criminal aliens in federal prisons increased from about 42,000 at the end of 2001 to about 49,000 at the end of last year.

The direct federal costs during the study's time frame were estimated to be $4.2 billion, with federal reimbursements to state and local governments totalling $1.6 billion through the State Criminal Alien Assistance Program, or SCAAP.

The majority of criminal aliens were identified as citizens of Mexico.

In addition, state prisons in fiscal 2003 housed about 74,000 criminal aliens. About 80 percent were in just five states -- Arizona, California, Florida, New York and Texas.

Also, about 147,000 criminal aliens were jailed in 698 local jurisdictions that received SCAAP reimbursement in 2003.

About 30 percent of those criminals were in five municipal and country jails -- Los Angeles County, California; New York City, New York; Orange County, California; Harris County, Texas; and Maricopa County, Arizona.
CONT.

------------------------------------------------------------------
CHILLING COSTS OF ILLEGAL ALIEN MIGRATION (http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty2.htm)

By Frosty Wooldridge
November 9, 2004
NewsWithViews.com

In 2003, according to the Arizona Department of Motor Vehicles, 57,600 cars were stolen in Phoenix. It is now the car-jacking capital of the world. Most were SUV’s and pickup trucks. At a conservative average of $15,000.00 per vehicle, owner losses exceeded $864 million. Insurance companies in the state suffered incredible claims from policyholders.

Worse, how would you like to walk out of your home or business to see your car gone? Imagine the hassle, violation of your hard work and disrespect for your well being.

Where did those vehicles go? Who stole them? Take a guess. Arizona is the temporary home of 500,000 illegal aliens. They cost Arizona taxpayers over $1 billion annually in services for schools, medical care, welfare anchor babies, loss of tax base and prisons. Illegals use those vehicles for smuggling more people and drugs from around the world into our country. When the vehicles are recovered, they are smashed-up wrecks in the desert. If not found, they have new owners south of the border as thieves drive the cars through the desert and into Mexico as easily as you drive your kids to soccer practice. THAT’s how porous our borders are!

The chilling costs of illegal migration reach like an octopus into every aspect of our lives. Illegal aliens displaced American workers at a cost in excess of $133 billion dollars last year according to Harvard Professor George Borjas. College and high school kids cannot find a summer job in yard care, landscape, fast food or service jobs. Why? Illegal aliens work them at a third the wage and often, under the table.

Not only do your kids not have jobs; you’re paying taxes for illegal aliens who are not paying taxes.

Annually, 75 percent of drugs arrive from Mexico at a net cost of $120 billion hard currency that leaves our country for good. In addition, our tax dollars pay $80 billion for the War on Drugs each year. It is a war that hasn’t been won in the past 30 years and drugs are as available today to your teenager as they were in 1970.
CONT.

[El Minion]

Uh, we're talking about criminals (illegal immigrants).


Illegal aliens have higher incarceration rate than US as a whole. (http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/03/illegal_aliens_have_higher_inc.php)

---------------------------------------------------------
Feds pay $5.8 billion to jail criminal aliens (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44184)

------------------------------------------------------------------
CHILLING COSTS OF ILLEGAL ALIEN MIGRATION (http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty2.htm)



I see we are still using reports from people and organizations of questionable repute, to say the least notsofast:


-----------------------
John Tanton's Network (http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=72)

The organized anti-immigration "movement" is almost entirely the handiwork of one man, Michigan activist John H. Tanton.
Here is a list of 13 groups in the loose-knit Tanton network, followed by acronyms if the groups use them, founding dates, and Tanton's role in the groups.

Those organizations designated as hate groups by the Southern Poverty Law Center are marked with an asterisk (*).

In this list, "founded" means a group was founded or co-founded by John Tanton. "Funded" means that U.S. Inc., the funding conduit created and still headed by Tanton, has made grants to the group.


*American Immigration Control Foundation
AICF, 1983, funded

*American Patrol/Voice of Citizens Together
1992, funded

California Coalition for Immigration Reform
CCIR, 1994, funded

Californians for Population Stabilization
1996, funded (founded separately in 1986)

Center for Immigration Studies
CIS, 1985, founded and funded

Federation for American Immigration Reform
FAIR, 1979, founded and funded

NumbersUSA
1996, founded and funded

Population-Environment Balance
1973, joined board in 1980

Pro English
1994, founded and funded

ProjectUSA
1999, funded

*The Social Contract Press
1990, founded and funded

U.S. English
1983, founded and funded

U.S. Inc.
1982, founded and funded


Intelligence Report
Summer 2002

------------------------
The Nativists (http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?pid=1269)
FROSTY WOOLDRIDGE
AGE: 58
LOUISVILLE, COLO.
The author of hundreds of opinion columns, Frosty Wooldridge believes he knows a thing or two about immigration. It's not a pretty picture he paints.

Cock-fighting, animal sacrifice, Santeria sorcery, staged dog fights -- these are some of the nasty things illegal aliens bring us, Woolridge writes in his 2004 book Immigration's Unarmed Invasion: Deadly Consequences. There's genital mutilation -- clitorectomies -- that come to us courtesy of illegal non-European immigrants ("What if your daughter married a man who insisted your granddaughter undergo this operation?"). If you go to places like Wal-Mart or the movies, he warns, "you're breathing air that may be carrying hepatitis." Tuberculosis, head lice and hepatitis are showing up in our classrooms -- part of what Wooldridge calls immigrants' "disease jihad." Thanks to donations from illegals, blood supplies may be contaminated with a deadly parasite that will destroy your heart.

Not worried yet about the ways of "barbaric" immigrants? Consider the toilet habits of the undocumented. Somali immigrants, Wooldridge warns, "never used a toilet or washed their hands before being plunked down in America." Mexicans "do not wash their hands after using bathroom facilities." Then Wooldridge suggests in his book that readers think about just who it is who prepares their food.

An Army veteran, Wooldridge claims to have written articles for 18 magazines, along with "hundreds" of editorials in major American newspapers. He says he bicycled 100,000 miles through six continents over the course of 25 years. He has taught math and science and has been a tractor-trailer driver, bartender, dance teacher, ski instructor, heavy equipment trainer, cardiac catheterization technician, personal trainer and lifestyle coach. He has appeared on scores of television and radio shows. But what he does not have is any background in immigration.

That hasn't prevented him from offering up his opinions. "I don't want to see my country taken over ... and have them make the Southwest a slime pit Third World country like Mexico," he told a Las Vegas audience in early 2005. Later, in a letter to the editor, he complained about California, "with its nightmare gridlock, schools trashed, hospitals collapsing, drug gangs and overall chaos generated by a Third World mob of illegal aliens." U.S. borders should have been sealed to legal and legal immigration the day after the Sept. 11 attacks, Woolridge added on one Web site. If that doesn't happen soon, he said, "this country will collapse into internal civil conflict in this decade."

[Rohirrim]

Well, that was easy. If you're not a supporter of illegal immigration, you're a racist. It's so easy once you get your mind right. ;D MMMMMMM, Soma.

[yavoon]

Well, that was easy. If you're not a supporter of illegal immigration, you're a racist. It's so easy once you get your mind right. ;D MMMMMMM, Soma.

atleast in america ur "just" a racist. in europe u might end up in jail.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I see we are still using reports from people and organizations of questionable repute, to say the least Actually, the last time I took your own source to show how much these criminals are costing us, remember?

[TailgateNut]

Label me as you please, I'll be a racist when it pertains to illegal immigration.
I'm so sick of those who try to justify millions of "law-breakers" demanding rights under our constitution and Bill of rights.
IMO, they have one right, crry their asses back home, and if they think it's unfair to their children, take them along! I'll chip in some cash for the Greyhound trip and a box lunch!

[Stormontheplains]

Tailgut Nut--- Right on point once again. It's not racist what you think. Until you are surrounded by the pitfalls of illegals you will never understand how really bad it is.

[El Minion]

Well, that was easy. If you're not a supporter of illegal immigration, you're a racist. It's so easy once you get your mind right. ;D MMMMMMM, Soma.

I know there are many good and reasonable people who want the immigration addressed its just that the discussion gets hijacked and co-opted by xenophobes (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1473702&postcount=1). So I post to counter the hatred and misinformation that this topic gives cover to some posts that I see - not singling anyone out, though.

Not unlike Gustavo Arellano's (http://www.ocweekly.com/columns/ask-a-mexican/) father (http://www.onthemedia.org/transcripts/2006/03/31/03):

---------------------------
BOB GARFIELD: If you had one idea that you can impart to white America about Mexico and its culture and its people and the illegal Mexican immigrants living here, what would it be?

GUSTAVO ARELLANO: I would give them the example of my father. He came to this country illegally in 1968 in the trunk of a Chevy with three other men. And now, you know, he became a citizen, and now he's against illegal immigration. If that's not assimilation, I don't know what is.

[TailgateNut]

I know there are many good and reasonable people who want the immigration addressed its just that the discussion gets hijacked and co-opted by xenophobes[/URL]. So I post to counter the hatred and misinformation that this topic gives cover to some posts that I see - not singling anyone out, though.

.

In your opinion, those who do not support a easy path to citizenship for for those who have taken the "easy" route into our country are Xenophobes?
So you post to counter the hatred. Why don't you ask those who have taken and those who wish to take the legal route to citizenship how they feel about the "Illegals".
One of the engineers on our payroll has taken that route, and it has cost him financially and also endless hours and many trips to the to various govermental agencies.

On your side of the "fence" we have those who don't think our LAWS apply, but yet THEY are the once who "DEMAND" justice.

Justice is a bus trip back to Mexico!

[Spider]

Label me as you please, I'll be a racist when it pertains to illegal immigration.
I'm so sick of those who try to justify millions of "law-breakers" demanding rights under our constitution and Bill of rights.
IMO, they have one right, crry their asses back home, and if they think it's unfair to their children, take them along! I'll chip in some cash for the Greyhound trip and a box lunch!

I dont want to label you ,and I wont bullshít you , the law backs your stance , and your stance is correct to alot of people , but I dont want to give them rights , or citizenship , but I dont blame them either , a man has to do what he can to feed his family , I dont blame the illegal , i blame people giving the illegals jobs , I know farmers cant afford to hire to pay scale , something has to be done , no question ............

[TailgateNut]

Tailgut Nut--- Right on point once again. It's not racist what you think. Until you are surrounded by the pitfalls of illegals you will never understand how really bad it is.

Always the insults from you! May you never experience a "real" tailgate.

Regarding your comments: which part do I not understand? That their lives in Mexico drive them away. That employers here give them extra incentive. That it is clear throughout the "culture" that they are not penalized for breaking the law. That the law abiding citizens of the US foot the bill for their use of our medical, educational, and social services. That they expect rights which are rights guaranteed to the citizens of our country. That it is not fair to those who wait years to follow the legal avenues and are deserving of those rights.
What PART?

[TailgateNut]

I dont want to label you ,and I wont bullshít you , the law backs your stance , and your stance is correct to alot of people , but I dont want to give them rights , or citizenship , but I dont blame them either , a man has to do what he can to feed his family , I dont blame the illegal , i blame people giving the illegals jobs , I know farmers cant afford to hire to pay scale , something has to be done , no question ............

I put the blame on three things:

The Mexican goverment
The US goverment
The Employers

[Bronco Bob]

I put the blame on three things:

The Mexican goverment
The US goverment
The Employers

I'd add a fourth, the public wanting to buy everything they can for as cheaply
as possible without regard for the consequences. There are certified organic
foods, for example, that some people are willing to pay more. Maybe it's time
for food certified to be picked only by laborers who are legal citizens.
And to boycott any company selling goods or services that hire illegals.
Take away demand and the supply dries up.

[TailgateNut]

I'd add a fourth, the public wanting to buy everything they can for as cheaply
as possible without regard for the consequences. There are certified organic
foods, for example, that some people are willing to pay more. Maybe it's time
for food certified to be picked only by laborers who are legal citizens.
And to boycott any company selling goods or services that hire illegals.
Take away demand and the supply dries up.


Now there's a winner!

..but can you just imagine the bitching from the farmers who use "illegals" to do the work. and knowing our goverment they'll probably recieve some sort of funding to cover their losses!!Booya!

[Crushaholic]

Always the insults from you! May you never experience a "real" tailgate.

Regarding your comments: which part do I not understand? That their lives in Mexico drive them away. That employers here give them extra incentive. That it is clear throughout the "culture" that they are not penalized for breaking the law. That the law abiding citizens of the US foot the bill for their use of our medical, educational, and social services. That they expect rights which are rights guaranteed to the citizens of our country. That it is not fair to those who wait years to follow the legal avenues and are deserving of those rights.
What PART?

I read Storm's comments as he was agreeing with you. IMO, he was using "you" in the generic sense, not really directing it at Tailgate Nut...

[TailgateNut]

I read Storm's comments as he was agreeing with you. IMO, he was using "you" in the generic sense, not really directing it at Tailgate Nut...


Ya gotta read the finer points when dealing with the "flatlander".

IE:Tailgut Nut

The "U" isn't near the "A" on my keyboard.

As far as I'm concerned he can kiss my "Koondinghy" (Sp, Korean)