Moral Barometer Poll

[cmhargrove]

Obviously we have recently been addressing the topic of character on our team. There have been some pretty heated arguments. I thought I would post a poll to see which things you feel are the biggest character concerns. First, vote on your top pick, then explain why.

[Florida_Bronco]

Well first off, Brandon Marshall didn't beat his girlfriend. Second, all of them are serious red flags.

[Kaylore]

I went with Gun-thug because they often embody things from the other three options as well. Wife/girl beater would be a close second, though. Leaving your family is terrible, but it's a problem that has been ongoing in Black America for some time, so there are some major issues there. Drugs are such a wide issue that I'd have to look at it on a case by case basis.

[cmhargrove]

Well first off, Brandon Marshall didn't beat his girlfriend. Second, all of them are serious red flags.

Point taken, I retract my comment about Marshall. I think he will be proven innocent - sorry about putting his name there.

[Crushaholic]

I'm casting a vote for "all of the above". If I HAD to choose one of them, it would be the gun thug. However, if you're breaking the law, it's a concern...

[maven]

Another character thread?

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/7564/snap3lk7it.jpg

[Drek]

Guys who can't leave the thug life behind when they've made it. They're succeptible to all of the above and much worse.

What it ultimately comes down to is how good a decision maker is the guy. Ray Lewis is a thug but he's smart enough to handle his **** in a way where he catches no flak. Meanwhile others get taken to the cleaners for lesser offenses because they're just flat out stupid about how they handle situations, like Ricky Williams for example.

[cswil]

The difference in having "character" issues with regard to smoking weed is....who got caught. Moss/Thomas=caught, Calvin Johnson/Okoye=not caught.

[Traveler]

I went with Gun-thug because they often embody things from the other three options as well. Wife/girl beater would be a close second, though. Leaving your family is terrible, but it's a problem that has been ongoing in Black America for some time, so there are some major issues there. Drugs are such a wide issue that I'd have to look at it on a case by case basis.

Although you may not have meant to, I take issue with your are inference that the issue in bold is a predominantly black problem. That particular issue can be applied equaly among all races.

[cmhargrove]

Another character thread?

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/7564/snap3lk7it.jpg

Not a thread about bad Schwarzenegger (sp?) films.

Maybe this is extra important to me because of my fan background. I grew up in Arlington Texas and was rightly a Cowboys fan. Loved Roger Staubach, Ed "too tall" Jones, Harvey Martin, Tony Dorsett, Drew Pearson. Stuck with them through the Danny White years. Then loved Randy White, Troy Aikman, and Emmitt.
As they were finishing up their superbowl years, the character issues really started to mount. Irvin eventually made me want to puke - still does. The guy could play, but I just didn't want to be a fan of his after a while. Couldn't stand the locker room, things felt dirty, I checked out as a fan.

Caught on to the Broncos then. Loved Elway, loved the story behind Davis, even liked Shannon Sharpe's mouth. Latched on to the Broncos and have been a fan ever since.

I don't want my Broncos to become the old Cowboys. I don't feel like they are. I feel our new picks will be great for the team, or they will be off the team. Character, therefore, is an important question for me given my history as a football fan.

So, don't let your head explode just yet.

[Vegas_Bronco]

I'd say going to far on the first date. That's gotta be added to the list somewhere.

[Sodak]

Ahhhh Sh!t. More Gonzo bait.

[NaptownChief]

Strahan left his wife with about 75% of his net worth...not sure how that qualifies leaving her in the dirt. He got raped.

[Traveler]

Strahan left his wife with about 75% of his net worth...not sure how that qualifies leaving her in the dirt. He got raped.

On that we can agree! Sheesh!:thumbs:

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Gotta go with all of the above - at least when it comes to breaking the law. Under the new code of conduct all same class laws broken will need to be treated the same whether we perceive them to be equal or not.

[The Moops]

gun thug, gangsta worst. although, how can you get lower than beating girlfriend/wife?!

[cmhargrove]

gun thug, gangsta worst. although, how can you get lower than beating girlfriend/wife?!

Raiders fan?

[Los Broncos]

Being a nappy headed ho is pretty bad, or beating one.

[cmhargrove]

Being a nappy headed ho is pretty bad, or beating one.

I'm writing this stuff down for next poll....

[Steve Sewell]

Obviously we have recently been addressing the topic of character on our team. There have been some pretty heated arguments. I thought I would post a poll to see which things you feel are the biggest character concerns. First, vote on your top pick, then explain why.

I couldn't vote because the top 4 are equally high on my list. The lowest on my list is the ganja and booze because I'd estimate that 95% of NFL players get drunk and/or high at some point during their careers. Only .0001% are murderers like Ray Lewis, though.

[Steve Sewell]

Well first off, Brandon Marshall didn't beat his girlfriend. Second, all of them are serious red flags.

No, that was Rod Smith, wasn't it? Everyone's all-time Bronco?

[Los Broncos]

No, that was Rod Smith, wasn't it? Everyone's all-time Bronco?

Im not sure if he beat her.

[Steve Sewell]

Although you may not have meant to, I take issue with your are inference that the issue in bold is a predominantly black problem. That particular issue can be applied equaly among all races.

That comment gave me some pause as well, but after further thought, the percentage of single parent African American families compared to other races is overwhelmingly high. And since a majority of the players in the NFL are African American, I can see his point. I think that was what Kaylore was trying to say.

[Steve Sewell]

Im not sure if he beat her.

He was convicted of assault:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2000/07/14/broncos000714.html

This is the only article I could find but it sums it up nicely.

[enjolras]

Kaylore hit on the head for me... gun toting gangsta is the worst on the list, because typically it involves all of those others and a lot more.

[Tredici]

I love discussions concerning "morality". Crossing a line into criminal behavior is different than moral values.

Morality is a hundred choices people make everyday and are seldom public or newsworthy.

Some might consider a poll assigning greater or lesser value to a criminal act to be a bit immoral in itself.....

[cmhargrove]

I love discussions concerning "morality". Crossing a line into criminal behavior is different than moral values.

Morality is a hundred choices people make everyday and are seldom public or newsworthy.

Some might consider a poll assigning greater or lesser value to a criminal act to be a bit immoral in itself.....

So state your case, do you find this poll immoral? If so, what the heck does it have to do with our discussion, I don't think the NFL will suspend me for it.

I understand I used the word "moral" which wasn't really supposed to be a philisophical discussion on the nature of morality. But, a barometer has a range, lesser and greater. It's just a question on what you feel is more of a red flag for our team and the league. I didn't mean to make you feel I was without an ethical compass by asking an opinion question.

I asked the question because I hate stories about guys leaving their families (hurting others) or threatening others (gang thugs) more than the stories about them getting high. Just an opinion question, didn't mean to personally offend. That would be immoral.

[RkyMtnThunder]

I picked gansta cause IMO its the obvious biggie on the list.

Someone leaving their family - shameful. (I also fail to see how its any more a 'black' thing? It happens across the board)

Beating on a woman, again shameful. But I have felt like smacking one or two in my life so I can somewhat relate when you hear about it. Once, OK will give you a chance. Twice or more? Problem

And anyone IMO who honestly thinks occasional MJ use is a problem.....knows nothing about MJ to begin with. I rather people smoke more pot and drink less booze. World would be a better place. Try to argue otherwise.

[Tredici]

So state your case, do you find this poll immoral? If so, what the heck does it have to do with our discussion, I don't think the NFL will suspend me for it.

I understand I used the word "moral" which wasn't really supposed to be a philisophical discussion on the nature of morality. But, a barometer has a range, lesser and greater. It's just a question on what you feel is more of a red flag for our team and the league. I didn't mean to make you feel I was without an ethical compass by asking an opinion question.

I asked the question because I hate stories about guys leaving their families (hurting others) or threatening others (gang thugs) more than the stories about them getting high. Just an opinion question, didn't mean to personally offend. That would be immoral.

People leave their families and threaten others on a daily basis in all walks of society. If it's someone we know personally - or even ourselves, we can find some way to justify the behavior. We excuse many things in ourselves and then express shock when we hear of indiscretions in others we don't know.

What's a red flag to an NFL team? Is it worse if there is an incident of domestic violence or if a guy misses his assignment on the field? He's going to multiple chances on the former and fewer on the later. Just the way it is.

Personally, I don't look for model behavior in people just because they excel in a sport. I heard once money doesn't create character it only magnifies the one you already have. So I have little in the way of expectations when it comes to athlete behavior. They know how to run, catch, pass, etc. but they don't know how to live their day to day lives any better than the rest of us.

The only behavior we can monitor or be accountable for is our own. And most of us can list a lot of times we've not made the right choices.

[cmhargrove]

People leave their families and threaten others on a daily basis in all walks of society. If it's someone we know personally - or even ourselves, we can find some way to justify the behavior. We excuse many things in ourselves and then express shock when we hear of indiscretions in others we don't know.

What's a red flag to an NFL team? Is it worse if there is an incident of domestic violence or if a guy misses his assignment on the field? He's going to multiple chances on the former and fewer on the later. Just the way it is.

Personally, I don't look for model behavior in people just because they excel in a sport. I heard once money doesn't create character it only magnifies the one you already have. So I have little in the way of expectations when it comes to athlete behavior. They know how to run, catch, pass, etc. but they don't know how to live their day to day lives any better than the rest of us.

The only behavior we can monitor or be accountable for is our own. And most of us can list a lot of times we've not made the right choices.

We agree here 100%. However, the NFL is now handing out suspensions and/or threatening them with no real standard. They say they are worried about behavior, but I believe we all know that they are really worried about losing advertising dollars. Why else would the NFL and NBC put Calvin Johnson and Gaines Adams all over the TV as face men of the draft. They smoked pot too (and admitted it), they just didn't get caught.
The NFL pretends they are now holding a moral yardstick, but it really is looking towards advertisers to guage its ethical standards.

Personally, i'm ready to forgive a doobie smoker more than a wife beater. But, the league thinks pot is more important than domestic violence.

[Los Broncos]

He was convicted of assault:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2000/07/14/broncos000714.html

This is the only article I could find but it sums it up nicely.

Ahh ok, just have to learn to walk away. I smacked my ex gf a long time ago, but ive learned to control my temper over the last ten years, now i just go for a walk if i get upset.

[Beantown Bronco]

Drunk driving offenses should be added to the list. Every team seems to have a player or multiple players convicted each year, and it endangers everyone around them. Not everyone has the luxury of a police escort home after a night of partying like John did back in the day....

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

And anyone IMO who honestly thinks occasional MJ use is a problem.....knows nothing about MJ to begin with. I rather people smoke more pot and drink less booze. World would be a better place. Try to argue otherwise.

The trouble is marijuana is against the law whether we agree or not. If possession, is say, a class 3 felony and domestic dispute is also classiifed as a class 3 felony, then with the new coduct of conduct they are equal offenses.

[cmhargrove]

The trouble is marijuana is against the law whether we agree or not. If possession, is say, a class 3 felony and domestic dispute is also classiifed as a class 3 felony, then with the new coduct of conduct they are equal offenses.

It's too early to think offense will be treated fairly.

Pacman has been accused of more offenses, but convicted of less.

Chris Henry has been accused of fewer, but convicted of more (presently).

So why does one get 8 games and the other 16? Ethical standards, or perceptions and threats by sponsors?

[cdesignmaster]

1.) The "Gun thug & Gangsta" has most likely already committed the other 3 choices without being reported.
2.) The "Leave wife & kids in the dirt " has most like already committed the first 2 choices without being reported. Anyone's guess on the gun thing not being reported.
3.) The "Beat the Girlfriend (or Wife)" generally coincides with drugs or alcohol. Otherwise, a total loose cannon.
4.) Smokin the ganja (alcohol & drugs), rarely do you hear of any of the other 3 problems without alcohol or drugs being involved.

The only real answer is #1 or on my list, #4, from which the rest evolve. Of course, not all the time, but the percentages are stagerring.