Let it begin -- Day One Draft Grades

[ØrangeÇrush]

Cause it's never to early to grade a draft.

[ØrangeÇrush]

I give it a solid B. Could have been an A if we kept the third rounder and drafted a DT. We actually addressed the defensive line for once with a real attempt to infuse some talent. We also got a good prospect for Tackle. He just needs to get his ass in the weight room, and bulk up some more.

We still need a Safety, Linebacker, Defensive Tackle. I hated seeing our late 3rd go, but I'm glad to see Shanahan go after a guy he likes.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

It's a B for me...solid, unspectacular. Filled a need with 3 players who can all be solid, but i doubt will be stars. Really dont understand why we traded a 3rd and 6th to pick up Moss, who im sure would have been around at 21.

[REB]

A solid or high B works for me. Dline is something we've needed to work on for quite awhile now and we finally addressed it. Hopefully these guys can get pressure on the QB.

1-2-3-:Broncos:!!!!!!! :charge:

[freak6]

We pissed away our other 3rd, and a 6th, for Moss who probably would have been there at 21, which we could have traded down and gotten huge value from Cleveland from.

I like the 2 DEs we drafted, but because of the trade fiasco, I gave us a D.

[REB]

Well Shanny said that they were looking at 3 guys at the 21 spot and two were already gone and after GB took Harrell they felt they needed to move up to make sure they got Moss because you never know.

1-2-3-:Broncos:!!!!!!! :charge:

[fdf]

I give it a solid B. Could have been an A if we kept the third rounder and drafted a DT.

I really liked our last two drafts. But I'm very unhappy with this one. Small, fast DE's do not address our fundamental problem on the DL--the complete lack of anyone to play next to Warren and collapse the pocket. Our DE's (no matter who they are) will continue to look like crap until we address the DT problem.

Don't know how we are going to address it. We have used up our first day picks; so we have noone to trade for, say, Jenkins. There is noone else worthwhile available in FA. So DT is set. We will pick up whatever FA flotsam is still around after the draft and rotate them, relying entirely on Warren to control the center of the line. Having lost Meyers to play beside Warren, the situation at DT looks worse than grim next year--we are clearly stepping down at DT from even last year when it wasn't very good.

Jay Cutler is going to have to put up a whole lot of points week-in-and-week-out for us to make the playoffs. The defense will be a sieve against good passing teams.

[Broncojef]

Jay Cutler is going to have to put up a whole lot of points week-in-and-week-out for us to make the playoffs. The defense will be a sieve against good passing teams.


Two young solid DEs with our DBs and I think you can scratch the passing issue as a problem. Look we are one big DT away from being super solid lets have some faith in Shanny and let he and Bates work magic. After the June cuts we may be pleasantly surprised at DT. It aint over yet.

[NFLBRONCO]

I gave it a B

Has anyone thought we might STILL make a trade for a DT I would not worry til we hit camp.


One thing I have learned about drafts is no matter if you love, hate or think your team reached too much on draft day. The true measure of a draft is what they do on the field and you should go into training camp thinking we did fine today. I love our draft and am excited to see new DL come in and compete. We at least addressed our lines that's a start. Go Broncos

[BroncoBuff]

D

We couldda got Kris Jenkins for the #2 pick, and he would've been a HUGE upgrade compared to Tim Crowder.

[Drek]

Don't know how we are going to address it. We have used up our first day picks; so we have noone to trade for, say, Jenkins. There is noone else worthwhile available in FA. So DT is set. We will pick up whatever FA flotsam is still around after the draft and rotate them, relying entirely on Warren to control the center of the line. Having lost Meyers to play beside Warren, the situation at DT looks worse than grim next year--we are clearly stepping down at DT from even last year when it wasn't very good.


Meyers was a scrub. McKinley is a much better player. Hell, Burton could probably do a better job in a two gap scheme than Meyers.

We'll fill the DT competition with big bodies and find someone who can stand next to Warren, thats all it'll pretty much take. Meyers might have been the worst starting DL in the NFL last year and we still managed a blazing start.

Also, Tim Crowder is 272 pounds and he threw up 32 bench reps at the combine. He's hardly a "small DE". He's a bull who can play LDE in the NFL. He addresses the size need pretty clearly.

Overall I like the first day and give it a B. We could've stood pat and taken Branch at 21, but apparently there's a legitimate red flag on him as every team passed in the first round. We might have been able to wait at 21 for Moss, but we'd have looked real stupid banking on it only to see Jacksonville or Tennessee, two teams both considering DEs, scoop him up.

Thats all rhetorical at this point though. A big DT body would've been nice but a young OT isn't bad either. We didn't have the pieces to bring in an 'A' level class this year. Shanahan tried but the Wilson and Plummer deals both got sabotaged in one way or another. Instead we addressed an area of need where this draft was deep and got a good fit for our offensive line scheme. Not a bad day and it'll pay dividends down the road.

[yavoon]

I gave it a C. it might turn out great, we seem to have another superior athlete. but overall it seems uninspired, rushing around poking at needs w/ an upside stick. plenty of room to speculate greatness, but the panning out might be the painful side.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

And you know Jenkins could be had for just a 2nd because? Do you really want to be speculating like that after the thread you made claiming Denver was the leader for Jenkins?

B, solid. Like Moss, even though they might have given up too much for him. Like the Crowder pick a lot. Not a huge fan of Harris, but it was a position that needed to be addressed.

[CBF1]

had to lay a solid B on the Broncos today.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I like the Harris pick. He's an athletic lineman and will get a year or two to feel his way through the Broncos system. I think he'll be a solid pro. Maybe not pro bowl material, but lepsis-esque

[Odysseus]

A solid B.

I wish the Broncos did not have to pay so much for Moss but they didn't have any choice. Moss would be gone before 21. I think book ending Moss was smart.

I think they avoided over spending on other players which would have just killed their other choices. They didn't trash the draft for one player even though it feels like it. I am going to let someone else raise the question about some of the players they passed on.

I like our new OT prospect.

Broncos get it. You attack the ball from lines. I hope they find a DT.

[Odysseus]

Meyers was a scrub. McKinley is a much better player. Hell, Burton could probably do a better job in a two gap scheme than Meyers.

We'll fill the DT competition with big bodies and find someone who can stand next to Warren, thats all it'll pretty much take. Meyers might have been the worst starting DL in the NFL last year and we still managed a blazing start.

Also, Tim Crowder is 272 pounds and he threw up 32 bench reps at the combine. He's hardly a "small DE". He's a bull who can play LDE in the NFL. He addresses the size need pretty clearly.

Overall I like the first day and give it a B. We could've stood pat and taken Branch at 21, but apparently there's a legitimate red flag on him as every team passed in the first round. We might have been able to wait at 21 for Moss, but we'd have looked real stupid banking on it only to see Jacksonville or Tennessee, two teams both considering DEs, scoop him up.

Thats all rhetorical at this point though. A big DT body would've been nice but a young OT isn't bad either. We didn't have the pieces to bring in an 'A' level class this year. Shanahan tried but the Wilson and Plummer deals both got sabotaged in one way or another. Instead we addressed an area of need where this draft was deep and got a good fit for our offensive line scheme. Not a bad day and it'll pay dividends down the road.

Both these deals REALLY stung this year's draft. I wish both players well but WOW Ouch! PAINFUL.

I think we'll be alright at DT despite wanting an IMPACT DT to anchor the line. I think Burton is better than advertised and McKinley is going to be more important signing than I hoped he would be.

I hope Harris PROVES he can play multiple positions on the OL. THAT would make this guy a huge pick up.

[SouthStndJunkie]

I give us a C+/C.

I did not think we had to trade up to 17.

[Popps]

Trading from 21 to 17 isn't worth getting that upset about if we got a guy that fills a crucial need, and a guy that the front office apparently loves.

Outside of a major move up the board... this was the right thing to do. Following it up with another nice DE prospect was also the right thing to do.

I don't mind going OT at #3, though more defensive help probably would have made me happier. Still, without a lot of picks, we couldn't really afford to gamble with it much. OT is definitely a need.

This was a great first day. It's not sexy (now) ... but it's getting our lines shored up, and we're LONG overdue for this. We had our sexy draft last year.... it's time to bring in some ass-kickers up front.

I'll go B+.

[bpc]

Making selections for the lines definitely isn't going to drive up the sex appeal for this draft but it will definitely pay dividends down the road.

For us to actually committ to another position of need and improve it, I'm good with that.

I felt like we reached for a need position with Ryan Harris. Maybe he is that good though.

[U GOT JACKED UP]

I've never seen fans complain so much before a draft about getting a pass rush and when we finally do you continue to cry. Grow up and give them a chance.

[yavoon]

Making selections for the lines definitely isn't going to drive up the sex appeal for this draft but it will definitely pay dividends down the road.

For us to actually committ to another position of need and improve it, I'm good with that.

I felt like we reached for a need position with Ryan Harris. Maybe he is that good though.

I'm not sure what u guys mean by sexy, if u mean high profile then passrushing defensive ends are the sexiest position on the entire defense.

not sexy would be like strong safeties or guards or something.

[Kaylore]

I pretty much agree with what everyone else said.

Jarvis Moss: I wanted this pick here. Big Player with huge wing span and a sack artist. A lot of upside as he is still developing physically because of his staff infection his first two years. Prefect fit for our system and made plays on special teams as well. The upgrade to our line and ST is a major boon! Great pick. A

Tim Crowder: Not my favorite probably because I see him as another Ekuban except with a lower ceiling. He is a leader and a good all-around player but I would have preferred Ikaika-Alama Francis. However he compliments Moss well, and I felt taking two defensive ends in rounds one and two was a possibility, so I'll give it a C+

Ryan Harris: I love this pick (I picked him for the Broncos at this spot as well). He is a great player that is perfect for our system. He can also play left guard which maybe necessary if Nalen retires and Hamilton moves to Center. Versatile player. Has really long arms and amazing feet. He uses his hands pretty well. You'd be amazed at how those three things alone will make a lineman really great. My favorite pick. A+

Average: B Good work.

[-Slap-]

I would give it a C+ to a B-. I don't know how I can give it a much higher grade when we didn't select a player in the top half of the first round and we only had three selections. Overall, we filled areas of need with our available resources as best as we could. While I'm excited by Moss' potential, I wouldn't exactly call him a safe pick. Considering we moved up to acquire him, I would say the eventual grade of this draft will hinge largely upon how well Moss ultimately performs.

[Willynowei]

Lets see... we picked two Dends today, thats an A from me :).

[BroncoInferno]

I love every pick, which shocks me. Between Moss and Crowder, at least one will be a top pass rusher, and Harris is a supreme athlete at T. Good draft so far.

[PatsWin2002]

Nick Bakay (former ESPN funny dude) did a blog on nfl.com:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/features/bakay

His comments on Denver:
17) JAX: TRADE TO DENVER
(for a 1st (21), a 3rd, and a 6th)

JARVIS MOSS: Coach Shanny may still loath Al Davis, but they agree on one thing: "The quarterback must go down, and he must go down hard...:" As a sidebar, I am a big Jim Bates fan and I think the Broncos defense will be lethal under his guidance this season.

[baja]

If you grade them on what they did whith what they had I say B. If they had gambled by staying at 21 and still got their man than an A would have been in order. They did what they had to to insure the best move for the team <B>this season.

[Rascal]

I like Moss and Crowder, should provide us with the DE's of the future, but it pisses me off to take Harris, who is overrated IMO, and not take Tank Tyler when our DT situation is scary ugly. C-

***
After taking Marcus Thomas I like the draft more as it addressed all of our needs along the d-line. If Marcus stays clean I think we got a real steal.

So I give it a B-/C+ now.

[ScottXray]

We pissed away our other 3rd, and a 6th, for Moss who probably would have been there at 21, which we could have traded down and gotten huge value from Cleveland from.

I like the 2 DEs we drafted, but because of the trade fiasco, I gave us a D.

I give us a C..We got players who filled ONE need, and improved depth on the O-line...but the move up wasted a Three and Six ...we could have used the three to take safety help...
We got worked by Carolina and Shanny paniced when Harrell went off the board. We should have given no more than the six and a late pick next year to move up 4 spots.

So it was OK but could have been a lot better. C at most
:spit:

[Turf Shaman]

I really have no idea how all the picks will pan out, but I like what they were trying to address with these picks, so I approve.

[telluride]

A very bungled offseason. The front office blew the Plummer deal (with help from Plummer). It blew the Wilson deal (with help from the docs). We failed to maneuver into a spot where a real playmaker could be had. We failed to close a deal which could have netted us a top 5 pick next year. We didn't land a proven defense talent in a trade or free agency. We blew two picks to get a fairly suspect poor character underweight DE. Then load up on middling scrub defense players hoping -- like the Eason-era experiment -- they turn out to be jewels. All in all, a nothing draft. Give it a provisional C or D.

[BroncoBuff]

The average grade is a B-minus?! OMG, the freaking hypocrites around here make me laugh SO HARD! If somebody had come in here yesterday suggesting we give up our THIRD ROUND pick to move UP to take JARVIS MOSS ... not one single person would have endorsed the idea! In fact, most of you "experts" would've dismissed such a suggestion as pure lunacy.

But fine, everybody pretend you're experts. Whatever gets you through your day ... :~ohyah!:

[BroncoBuff]

freak6 is exempted from my criticism, because he agrees with me ;D

[yavoon]

The average grade is a B-minus?! OMG, the freaking hypocrites around here make me laugh SO HARD! If somebody had come in here yesterday suggesting we give up our THIRD ROUND pick to move UP to take JARVIS MOSS ... not one single person would have endorsed the idea! In fact, most of you "experts" would've dismissed such a suggestion as pure lunacy.

But fine, everybody pretend you're experts. Whatever gets you through your day is fine by me :~ohyah!:

makes me wish I had a time machine to see if someone who wasn't the broncos front office could sell this as a b-minus idea.

[wabbit]

A very bungled offseason. The front office blew the Plummer deal (with help from Plummer). It blew the Wilson deal (with help from the docs). We failed to maneuver into a spot where a real playmaker could be had. We failed to close a deal which could have netted us a top 5 pick next year. We didn't land a proven defense talent in a trade or free agency. We blew two picks to get a fairly suspect poor character underweight DE. Then load up on middling scrub defense players hoping -- like the Eason-era experiment -- they turn out to be jewels. All in all, a nothing draft. Give it a provisional C or D.


Gads!! Lets forfeit now and avoid the embarrassment

...B, but only a B because Shanahan just couldn't resist blowing off a top pick.

[maven]

I'll give it a C. There was absolutely no reason to trade up for Moss. Naysayers say what you want. But, Denver front office panicked.

[Kaylore]

The average grade is a B-minus?! OMG, the freaking hypocrites around here make me laugh SO HARD! If somebody had come in here yesterday suggesting we give up our THIRD ROUND pick to move UP to take JARVIS MOSS ... not one single person would have endorsed the idea! In fact, most of you "experts" would've dismissed such a suggestion as pure lunacy.

But fine, everybody pretend you're experts. Whatever gets you through your day ... :~ohyah!:

If you prefaced the question with "all the good players are already taken and two of Denver's three targets are taken as well" then I would have said "I'll do it, but I won't like it." You need to draft your targets - especially in the first round. If not you end up grabbing whatever's near you which is how Foster joined the team.

[wabbit]

...You need to draft your targets - especially in the first round. If not you end up grabbing whatever's near you which is how Foster joined the team.

The Bronco scouts & staff...including Shanahan...spent considerable time & expense evaluating Foster.

Sometimes, no matter how hard you try, spend or analyze, you just get some things wrong.

[maven]

The average grade is a B-minus?! OMG, the freaking hypocrites around here make me laugh SO HARD! If somebody had come in here yesterday suggesting we give up our THIRD ROUND pick to move UP to take JARVIS MOSS ... not one single person would have endorsed the idea! In fact, most of you "experts" would've dismissed such a suggestion as pure lunacy.

But fine, everybody pretend you're experts. Whatever gets you through your day ... :~ohyah!:

The trade up was stupid. Our FO panicked. If Moss was selected, which I highly doubt...Nelson or Meriweather would be our S for the next decade.

[Kaylore]

The Bronco scouts & staff...including Shanahan...spent considerable time & expense evaluating Foster.

Sometimes, no matter how hard you try, spend or analyze, you just get some things wrong.

I find that hard to believe considering he played all of nine games. Also remember that Shanahan recently said that Foster was never their target and they took him only when none of the guys they really wanted were left that year. Now he tries to go get the guys he has targeted to make sure he's not left standing around with his thumb up his butt.

[BroncoBuff]

The trade up was stupid. Our FO panicked. If Moss was selected, which I highly doubt...Nelson or Meriweather would be our S for the next decade.

Gad ... SANITY!

[watermock]

I give it a solid C-.

[wabbit]

I find that hard to believe considering he played all of nine games. Also remember that Shanahan recently said that Foster was never their target and they took him only when none of the guys they really wanted were left that year. Now he tries to go get the guys he has targeted to make sure he's not left standing around with his thumb up his butt.

Well, apparently, you have your recollections and I have mine.

I recall Shanahan saying the team carefully evaluated the system strengths of Kwame Harris & Foster and believed Foster better fit the Bronco offense.

...but, that's just me.

[maven]

The Bronco scouts & staff...including Shanahan...spent considerable time & expense evaluating Foster.

Sometimes, no matter how hard you try, spend or analyze, you just get some things wrong.

Foster never had any balls in college... And never played any games. That pick sucked back then and really sucks now.

WTF they saw in him is beyond me.

:spit:

[Garcia Bronco]

B to B-

Weak draft and drafting trench players will never look sexy.

[Garcia Bronco]

Well, apparently, you have your recollections and I have mine.

I recall Shanahan saying the team carefully evaluated the system strengths of Kwame Harris & Foster and believed Foster better fit the Bronco offense.

...but, that's just me.

He did say that...but under the context of olinemen

[Kaylore]

Well, apparently, you have your recollections and I have mine.

I recall Shanahan saying the team carefully evaluated the system strengths of Kwame Harris & Foster and believed Foster better fit the Bronco offense.

...but, that's just me.

They did! I don't want to suggest they drafted Foster believing he would suck. They felt he had more upside and better fit their system. But he said he only turned to Foster after the original targets were taken.

[Turf Shaman]

I don't like the trade up, but damn, you'd think Shanny tore a hole in the fabric of the universe which will lead to the implosion of all reality by doing it, the way people are flipping out over it.

They made a call to get the guy they wanted and not leave any chance that he might fall off the board with the pick, and even though it seems very unlikely that it was necessary, no one will ever know for sure. Just like we'll never know for sure if the Broncos would have made the right selections with the #86 and #198 picks. What we will know for sure is whether or not Jarvis Moss will pan out. It'll be some time, but it will give us something tangible to praise or criticize eventually.

What exactly is wrong with focusing on the tangible instead of flipping out over the intangible?

[watermock]

Did someone slip roofies into the draft water?

[baja]

The trade up was stupid. Our FO panicked. If Moss was selected, which I highly doubt...Nelson or Meriweather would be our S for the next decade.


What I think you saw in this draft is a fulfillment of a commitment made back when we hired Bates.

[BroncoBuff]

What I think you saw in this draft is a fulfillment of a commitment made back when we hired Bates.

Now that's a great point .... this could've been Bates' pick. Shanny might've promised him a couple picks. After all, there were other teams wooing Bates.

[baja]

Now that's a great point .... this could've been Bates' pick. Shanny might've promised him a couple picks. After all, there were other teams wooing Bates.


Of course it is a great point it was made by Baja Fan, the most underated poster on the Mane ;D

[baja]

Due to a falure to communitate with a beatuiful Thi woman booking agent I am stuck on standby in the Bangkok airport so I have at least an hour to waste here with you all. Could be worse.

Bangkok is unreal.....

[BroncoSoja]

We gave up to much for Moss
Crowder was a solid choice in the second
Should have taken Tank/or eithe of the Thomas guys in the 3rd

All in all C-

Would have been a B if we went DT in the 3rd...But instead we take a guy that was blown up last year in College.. Wonder what its going to be like when he hits the pro's...Not to mention we make a stupid move in the 1st to take a guy that probably would have been there at 21.. And even if someone did take him Spencer would have still been there...

As usual we screw up Draft day...Maybe one of these days we will actually get a GM.

[p7superfly]

We pissed away our other 3rd, and a 6th, for Moss who probably would have been there at 21, which we could have traded down and gotten huge value from Cleveland from.

I like the 2 DEs we drafted, but because of the trade fiasco, I gave us a D.


Our Seargent speaks the truth.

We could have probably stayed at 21, and still nabbed this guy ... or we could have traded w/ Cleveland for Quinn and raped them.

That third and extra sixth could have helped to trade for Jenkins or something else ... or taken a huge DT body.

[Atlas]

We pissed away our other 3rd, and a 6th, for Moss who probably would have been there at 21, which we could have traded down and gotten huge value from Cleveland from.

I like the 2 DEs we drafted, but because of the trade fiasco, I gave us a D.

If you like the two DEs Denver got then you shouldn't give a D. There were four teams between Denver and Moss that were looking for defensive help. Shanny said if Moss wouldn't have been there then they would have just traded down. I actually know more about Crowder than Moss from Watching UT football. With Crowder, Moss and Dumerville Denver could have some of the best young pass rushing ends in football. Just like when Shanny drafted the CBs. Denver went from worst to first. I like the set up of the defense now.

Keep your eyes out for this guy.


Quintin Echols Height: 6-07/8 | Weight: 313 | 40-Time: 5.05

Official Bio

Strengths:
Has excellent bulk and mass...Very strong and powerful...Does a real nice job of shedding blocks...Is able to take on multiple blockers...Instinctive and aware...He plays with good leverage...Moves well for a big man...May still have some upside.

Weaknesses:
Shorter than you would prefer...Is not much of a pass rusher and does not get a lot of penetration...Stamina and conditioning are major concerns...His work ethic is questionable...Was not overly productive...Only a situational guy in the pros?

Notes:
Could be a 3-4 nose tackle or a run stuffing specialist in a 4-3...An intriguing guy due to his size and triangle numbers...Does he have those intangibles needed to maximize that potential?...A developmental prospect who could possibly surprise.


He really fits Bates' system and he might get drafted or be an UDFA. I wouldn't be surprised if Shanny snags him in the 7th.

[Blueflame]

Going into the draft, the D-line was the primary area of need.... we addressed that with the first 2 picks. O-line depth was also a concern and pick #3 went there. I'm not at all displeased with bolstering the team in the trenches....

Here's to a good Day 2... :alky:

[baja]

Good day two??? We got a late 6 and 7

[Blueflame]

Good day two??? We got a late 6 and 7

I know... may those picks fill a team need (DT, LB, S)....

[Rohirrim]

I give it an F. The trade up was ridiculous. In the first place, it blew the chance of being in position to make the Quinn deal, which was pretty obvious to everyone and had already been discussed as a coming possibility in the chat room before the Broncos traded up. To trade up for Moss, the most conflicted DE in the draft with the worst injury history and biggest question marks, is a gamble that only a very stubborn person would make, or at least someone who thought he was smarter than everybody else. I would have preferred Nelson or even Spencer. If they wanted to take a flyer on somebody, they should have sat at 21 and taken Branch. Crowder wouldn't break a sweat if he was being chased by Dobermans. He's a minimal effort kind of guy. I doubt either of these guys will be able to beat out Dumervil for a spot in the lineup, and I expect both to be gone before three years pass. Harris is at the bottom of the OT list but might be able to play OG. Had the Broncos kept the second third, they could have picked up Yanda (which is who Baltimore used that pick on) if they wanted a good gaurd. So, of these three, first day picks, I think Harris might be able to play guard in a couple of years, and I expect Moss and Crowder to be gone in a couple of years - a flush. Actually, I don't think Moss has the durability to last for a single season in the NFL, so the flush may come sooner than I think.

[BroncoInferno]

The average grade is a B-minus?! OMG, the freaking hypocrites around here make me laugh SO HARD! If somebody had come in here yesterday suggesting we give up our THIRD ROUND pick to move UP to take JARVIS MOSS ... not one single person would have endorsed the idea! In fact, most of you "experts" would've dismissed such a suggestion as pure lunacy.

But fine, everybody pretend you're experts. Whatever gets you through your day ... :~ohyah!:

If you had prefaced it by saying he was one of our top three targets and that the other two had already been drafted, I would have said, "go for it." Too bad Shanny did not contact you, as you are apparently Karnac the Magnificent and KNOW that no team was going to pick Moss between #17 and #21 or trade up for him. You are being a pompous prick. Sorry that a lot of us like the pick and aren't choosing the pointless, worthless hand-wringing approach that you apparently feel superior about.

[BroncoInferno]

I give it an F. The trade up was ridiculous. In the first place, it blew the chance of being in position to make the Quinn deal, which was pretty obvious to everyone and had already been discussed as a coming possibility in the chat room before the Broncos traded up. To trade up for Moss, the most conflicted DE in the draft with the worst injury history and biggest question marks, is a gamble that only a very stubborn person would make, or at least someone who thought he was smarter than everybody else. I would have preferred Nelson or even Spencer. If they wanted to take a flyer on somebody, they should have sat at 21 and taken Branch. Crowder wouldn't break a sweat if he was being chased by Dobermans. He's a minimal effort kind of guy. I doubt either of these guys will be able to beat out Dumervil for a spot in the lineup, and I expect both to be gone before three years pass. Harris is at the bottom of the OT list but might be able to play OG. Had the Broncos kept the second third, they could have picked up Yanda (which is who Baltimore used that pick on) if they wanted a good gaurd. So, of these three, first day picks, I think Harris might be able to play guard in a couple of years, and I expect Moss and Crowder to be gone in a couple of years - a flush. Actually, I don't think Moss has the durability to last for a single season in the NFL, so the flush may come sooner than I think.

:Whaaaa!: :Whaaaa!: :Whaaaa!:

Glad you know more about these guys than folks who've actually spent months evaluating every snap these guys have ever taken. Too bad you weren't consulted. Actually, thank God you weren't consulted, because the above is pure-T crap.

And, yes, you are entitled to you're opinion, pointlessly whiny though it may be.

[-Slap-]

I give it an F. The trade up was ridiculous. In the first place, it blew the chance of being in position to make the Quinn deal, which was pretty obvious to everyone and had already been discussed as a coming possibility in the chat room before the Broncos traded up. To trade up for Moss, the most conflicted DE in the draft with the worst injury history and biggest question marks, is a gamble that only a very stubborn person would make, or at least someone who thought he was smarter than everybody else. I would have preferred Nelson or even Spencer. If they wanted to take a flyer on somebody, they should have sat at 21 and taken Branch. Crowder wouldn't break a sweat if he was being chased by Dobermans. He's a minimal effort kind of guy. I doubt either of these guys will be able to beat out Dumervil for a spot in the lineup, and I expect both to be gone before three years pass. Harris is at the bottom of the OT list but might be able to play OG. Had the Broncos kept the second third, they could have picked up Yanda (which is who Baltimore used that pick on) if they wanted a good gaurd. So, of these three, first day picks, I think Harris might be able to play guard in a couple of years, and I expect Moss and Crowder to be gone in a couple of years - a flush. Actually, I don't think Moss has the durability to last for a single season in the NFL, so the flush may come sooner than I think.

Pretty solid meltdown post. I give it a B-. He slandered the athletes really well, with comments he doesn't really believe. He lost points by not hammering home how stupid Shanahan/Sundquist are, though. He also failed to predict either short term or long term organizational disaster because of this draft. I almost dropped him a full grade for that. He redeemed himself somewhat by acting like the Ravens are a more competent franchise.

[watermock]

Now your grading posters Slappy?

[-Slap-]

Now your grading posters Slappy?

Mock, you disqualified yourself by passing out cold between picks 19 and 65.

[elsid13]

I liked the Moss and Cowder picks both should solid NFL players that help in trenches. IT THE HARRIS pick that pulls this draft down for me to B-/C+ area. Moss need to continue to add strength and Cowder need to be a more constitute (he has all the physical skills). Harris is UDFA or 7th rounder, and was major panic reach for Dove Valley. I'm sure this was a Dennison's pick, and I think he was lazy and didn't study all the game tape on this guy.

[Drek]

Pretty solid meltdown post. I give it a B-. He slandered the athletes really well, with comments he doesn't really believe. He lost points by not hammering home how stupid Shanahan/Sundquist are, though. He also failed to predict either short term or long term organizational disaster because of this draft. I almost dropped him a full grade for that. He redeemed himself somewhat by acting like the Ravens are a more competent franchise.

I'd have to give him a solid B. He didn't hammer home how stupid Shanahan was, but he stepped it up and played the Shanahan ego card. Thats top shelf right there. Also, saying that they'll fail to beat out a 4th rounder from last year's draft is a good "doom and gloom" draft day mantra.

He could've stepped it up to an 'A' if he'd have gone with this either a) ending Shanahan's coaching career here or b) played up the fact that we'll never win again with Shanahan at HC. Organizational disaster isn't as good if you aren't backing it up with a target.

Oh, and throwing in a "planahan", "teflonahan", or some other such insult to the coach would've really helped. Instead I'm left feeling like he just lacks conviction.

[MechanicalBull]

It seems like Carolina is set on keeping Jenkins for now so who knows if we could've gotten him for anything but would love to get him.

Like Both DE picks in Moss and Crowder. If Moss can come anything close to Jason Taylor like some are comparing him to than it will be great for Denver.

[Drek]

I liked the Moss and Cowder picks both should solid NFL players that help in trenches. IT THE HARRIS pick that pulls this draft down for me to B-/C+ area. Moss need to continue to add strength and Cowder need to be a more constitute (he has all the physical skills). Harris is UDFA or 7th rounder, and was major panic reach for Dove Valley. I'm sure this was a Dennison's pick, and I think he was lazy and didn't study all the game tape on this guy.

I've watched pretty much Harris' entire career. How much have you watched and at what point did he look like a UDFA or 7th rounder?

He's solid 3rd or 4th round material for any team and he fits our system well. He has strength questions but they're less extreme than Moss' by a long stretch. He wasn't a great pick but he also wasn't a bad one either.

[TailgateNut]

Nick Bakay (former ESPN funny dude) did a blog on nfl.com:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/features/bakay

His comments on Denver:


Gotta love that comment! I give us a SOLID "B".

Rattle the QB's and the rest is "childs-play"!

[elsid13]

I've watched pretty much Harris' entire career. How much have you watched and at what point did he look like a UDFA or 7th rounder?.

Any time he played against DE that has chance to be a NFL player. I think he looked good against college players, but those guys that have chanced to in pros he struggled with due to thier speed and strength. There was a reason Quinn look like he had happy feet last season.

He's solid 3rd or 4th round material for any team and he fits our system well. He has strength questions but they're less extreme than Moss' by a long stretch. He wasn't a great pick but he also wasn't a bad one either.

I just think with limited draft choices you could got a similar player in the 6 round, like the kid from Hawaii, and used the 3rd on another player - LB/S.

Like I stated yesterday in the chat room, I think all the players that Denver wanted Sabby, Martin, Black, Douglass, were picked just before their selection and they panicked.

We need OT, I just don't like this guy. I am sure that you have players that you didn't like either. Hopefully he proves me wrong

[BombsOverBaghdad]

Meyers was a scrub. McKinley is a much better player. Hell, Burton could probably do a better job in a two gap scheme than Meyers.

We'll fill the DT competition with big bodies and find someone who can stand next to Warren, thats all it'll pretty much take. Meyers might have been the worst starting DL in the NFL last year and we still managed a blazing start.

Also, Tim Crowder is 272 pounds and he threw up 32 bench reps at the combine. He's hardly a "small DE". He's a bull who can play LDE in the NFL. He addresses the size need pretty clearly.

Overall I like the first day and give it a B. We could've stood pat and taken Branch at 21, but apparently there's a legitimate red flag on him as every team passed in the first round. We might have been able to wait at 21 for Moss, but we'd have looked real stupid banking on it only to see Jacksonville or Tennessee, two teams both considering DEs, scoop him up.

Thats all rhetorical at this point though. A big DT body would've been nice but a young OT isn't bad either. We didn't have the pieces to bring in an 'A' level class this year. Shanahan tried but the Wilson and Plummer deals both got sabotaged in one way or another. Instead we addressed an area of need where this draft was deep and got a good fit for our offensive line scheme. Not a bad day and it'll pay dividends down the road.

And you know Jenkins could be had for just a 2nd because? Do you really want to be speculating like that after the thread you made claiming Denver was the leader for Jenkins?

B, solid. Like Moss, even though they might have given up too much for him. Like the Crowder pick a lot. Not a huge fan of Harris, but it was a position that needed to be addressed.

I am in complete agreement -- a solid B

A few years back, Shanny started a trend of drafting multiple players at the same position; then let them compete for the starting position. I like this practice and it appears to have worked for us at CB and WR -- now we will see what happens at DE.

I really like the Crowder pick

[Odysseus]

What I think you saw in this draft is a fulfillment of a commitment made back when we hired Bates.

Bates wanted these guys. They got THESE guys. It's obvious that Branch was not on their boards or they would have picked him. They didn't want Safety. They didn't want Nelson. It was get Moss or trade down. I think they over paid but I still think it was worthwhile. No. Moss would not be there at 21.

[Drek]

Any time he played against DE that has chance to be a NFL player. I think he looked good against college players, but those guys that have chanced to in pros he struggled with due to thier speed and strength. There was a reason Quinn look like he had happy feet last season.
Quinn never had happy feet. He's always been a guy who'll take the shot to get a pass off from a solid footing. He just took more shots than he should have last year.

Harris did struggle against top level competition in '06. But in '05 Harris did great and earned his first round hype. In '06 Harris couldn't keep weight on though and reportedly played much of the season at around 280. He never had this problem before so I'm guessing it stems from an off-field issue. When at 300+ pounds Harris is a solid OT. If Greek can get him to muscle up though and play at around 310 with more power he'd be a great fit to replace Lepsis in our new system were zone blocking will still power the running attack but where we'll also need big guys who can handle one on one assignments in pass blocking.



I just think with limited draft choices you could got a similar player in the 6 round, like the kid from Hawaii, and used the 3rd on another player - LB/S.

Like I stated yesterday in the chat room, I think all the players that Denver wanted Sabby, Martin, Black, Douglass, were picked just before their selection and they panicked.

We need OT, I just don't like this guy. I am sure that you have players that you didn't like either. Hopefully he proves me wrong
You mean Dan Uperesa? He's not even close to Harris' talent level.

I don't think this is a panic pick at all. He's such a fit for our system that I think the FO has targeted him for a while. They probably overpicked, I'd agree with that, but a lot of teams are moving to zone blocking and there is no way Harris makes it out of the first day. This is a shallow OT draft so we made the move when we had to.

We didn't have a knock your socks off great draft. Last year we did. This is a much weaker draft and we didn't have nearly the firepower, so you can't expect the same return. Instead we used this draft's positional depth at DE to answer our major questions there with two very good prospects and then took a safe OL depth pick who might develop into a starter but should be nothing worse than a solid rotational backup for long time.

[Hogan11]

Solid and unspectatular thus far....I'm waiting to see what day #2 brings

[BroncoBuff]

Pretty solid meltdown post. I give it a B-. He slandered the athletes really well, with comments he doesn't really believe. He lost points by not hammering home how stupid Shanahan/Sundquist are, though. He also failed to predict either short term or long term organizational disaster because of this draft. I almost dropped him a full grade for that. He redeemed himself somewhat by acting like the Ravens are a more competent franchise.
I give it a C+. Nowhere did he mention Toviessi, the Brown-cos or even Darryl Gardener. How can you have a proper meltdown over a Shanny D-Line reach without including an historical perspective in your rant? ???

That said, it was powerful in it's single-minded anger. And propping the Ravens was a nice finish.

[Requiem]

I'd give it a B/B+. I like it.

[Rohirrim]

Pretty solid meltdown post. I give it a B-. He slandered the athletes really well, with comments he doesn't really believe. He lost points by not hammering home how stupid Shanahan/Sundquist are, though. He also failed to predict either short term or long term organizational disaster because of this draft. I almost dropped him a full grade for that. He redeemed himself somewhat by acting like the Ravens are a more competent franchise.

In all honesty, I have to take a lower grade than that. I didn't mean the Ravens were more competent. I just meant they happened to be the team that ended up with the pick that turned into Yanda, who will turn out to be a better guard than Harris. That's the point. The Ratbirds suck. :welcome:

[Alkazar]

I went with a "C" cause I was kinda disappointed that we only took 4 guys and none where I felt we have a legitimate need, at FB. I understand Mike's reasoning, especially with the 2 DEs as we need to start trying to get a consistent pass rush, but I'll either raise or lower the grade depending on how these guys pan out.

[CBF1]

Some of you would bitch if you were hung with a new rope. We addressed some serious needs this draft in creating a pass rush, Which almost everyone here has complained about the past 2 seasons. With Thomas we helped solidify the middle of the D line which will help our linebackers make more plays. Harris adds depth to our Oline which we all know we needed. Spending all picks in the "trenches" is very solid for what our needs were.

Next draft we can take a look at Safety and WR, and maybe another DT

[dlow187]

B +
First thing I think Marcus Thomas & Ryan Harris were very Smart picks.

Thomas would've been a 1st rounder last year but he decided to go back to school. Besides his off-field issues, the guy has the talent to be starting next to Warren after a few games. Jarvis Moss found out we drafted him when he got off the plane in Denver a said "Marcus was hands down the best football player on our national championship team," Moss said. "He's definitely a top-10 player. He's a special player."

Harris has been labeled a "Broncos Lineman" in many Draft guides, who possesses almost all of the things we look for in our lineman. Nuff said.

Moss & Crowder were also smart picks, i dont think i need to explain y.

[OrangeShadow]

soild B, i like the moss pick and defensive players were dropping like flies so im ok with moving up. the crowder pick doesnt bother me at all he wasnt consistent at texas but he showed flashes of brilliance. Not sold on harris but the thomas pick i like

[BroncoBuff]

And you know Jenkins could be had for just a 2nd because? Do you really want to be speculating like that after the thread you made claiming Denver was the leader for Jenkins?
I mis-read the headline - which I copped to in like the fourth post on that thread. And "speculate"? All anybody does around here is speculate!! You too, my self-important friend. Honestly, I'm a bit taken aback since last night when I realized how seriously people take themselves around here. Besides, the story was widely reported - the Panthers did lower their demand to a second-round pick ... and do you really want to jump on me for something so petty as that? I was simply re-posting reports - reports from guys who know a lot more than you or I do.

But okay, tough guy, how about linking me to one, just ONE of your thousand know-it-all posts where you suggested Jarvis Moss at 21 - or heaven forbid you suggested trading UP for Jarvis Moss - or even drafting Crowder at 56.

Hmmmmm?






ALL ABOARD! :bandwagon

[orinjkrush]

FWIW, I rated it a B. Could be B+ or B-, depends on how many starters we ended up with. One starter: B-. Two Starters: B. More than that: B+/A-.
I've been calling for a stud RDE for two years and I guess, you gotta be careful what you wish for....We have what we could get. Looks like Bates and Shanny thought DE was slightly more important than DT though.

[skpac1001]

This reminds me of fantasy football. Its almost like its more important to "win" the draft then it is to get better. The draft is (or should be) a tool to get what you want to aid your team, not a competition to see who got the best value. We got who we needed most. Seems to me that should be the only factor in judging the draft. Scrambling after value points is for fantasy GM's.

[Odysseus]

Did Moss and Thomas play side by side?