Round 2: Tim Crowder, DE, Texas.

[Drek]

Two DEs? Shades of '05!

[Florida_Bronco]

Damn, that was fast post.

[Rock Chalk]

Woot!

I dont know who these people are but DLine makes me happy.

[MechanicalBull]

like the pick a lot

[Drek]

I like it. He's big, strong, and fast. Could develop into a good strong side end for Bates' system.

Guess it sends the message regarding Dumervil's future. Rotational/STs future for him.

[Florida_Bronco]

Looks like Bates is serious about building the D-line.

[chickennob2]

Well there's the bigger, run-stopping DE people said we missed with Moss. I was honestly torn between him, Charles Johnson (a better pass rusher at DE), and the less-sexy, less needed pick of a still available Ryan Kalil. Whatever, Crowder makes me happy. Let's pick up Soliai with 70 and call it a day.

[TheDave]

Can't complain... We are finally drafting an area of serious need.

[U GOT JACKED UP]

Awesome pick.

[Willynowei]

WOOOHOOOOO! This is it baby, Bates knows what its about and Shanahan is listening to this D-coordinator. Superbowl here we come!!!!

[Dudeskey]

Nice... Love the pick

[Drek]

Damn, that was fast post.

I'm white hot lightening!

Crowder is a physical beast though. 4.69 40, 4.32 shuttle, 32 bench reps, dude is a monster physically.

[youcandoit1687]

Are Ekuban, Lang, and Engelberger tradebait?

I like the picks though, I guess this means that safety is for next year, Lepsis is recovering, and the LB situation will be figured out.

Paul Soliai at 70 or Brandon Siler maybe. Possibility of Kris Jenkins. Still hopeful for Walter Thomas or Louis Leonard in the 5th.

It may not look that sexy on Monday but neither did '05.

[minibronco]

<table id="section" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="label"><td>OVERVIEW</td></tr> <tr class="copy"><td> The quiet leader of the Longhorns defense, Crowder was a model of consistency at Texas, starting his final 47 games. He proved to be a difference maker on the front wall, registering 19 sacks with 40 tackles behind the line of scrimmage and 76 pressures in 51 games during his collegiate career.
At Tyler High School, Crowder excelled in football and baseball. He lettered three times for the football team, starting during his final two seasons at defensive end. He earned all-state Class 5A and all-district honors as a senior and was an honorable mention all-district choice as a junior.
Crowder registered 127 tackles, 22 stops behind the line of scrimmage and 14 sacks in his final two seasons. He posted 55 tackles, nine sacks, 12 stops for losses and a forced fumble as a senior. His top games were a 10-tackle, one-sack performance against Tyler Lee High and a three-sack effort vs. Lufkin High.
Crowder posted eight stops, a sack and 10 quarterback pressures in a victory against Arlington Bowie High, He made 72 tackles (26 solos), 10 stops for losses and five sacks as a junior. He saw limited action at tight end and moved up to the varsity for the team's run to the 5A Division II championship game as a sophomore. Crowder added three letters in baseball (pitcher, first base), and earned all-district honors after posting a better than .400 batting average as a senior. He also pitched a one-hitter.
Upon enrolling at Texas in 2003, Crowder immediately joined the defensive-line rotation, taking over left-tackle chores for the final nine games. He earned third-team freshman All-American honors from The Sporting News and shared UT's Outstanding Defensive Newcomer Award. Crowder recorded 35 tackles (21 solos), with one sack, three stops for losses and 14 pressures. He picked off one pass, batted down five others and forced a pair of fumbles.
The Associated Press All-Big 12 Conference honorable mention produced 47 tackles (27 solos) while manning the left tackle position in 2004. He had 4½ sacks, 10 stops behind the line of scrimmage and 22 pressures. He recovered and caused one fumble while also knocking down three passes in 12 games.
The league's coaches awarded Crowder first-team All-Big 12 Conference honors in 2005. He was a member of the Hendricks Award (nation's top defensive end) watch list and a key member of a defense that ranked 10th nationally in total defense (302.9 ypg) and eighth in scoring defense (16.4 ppg). He led the team with 20 pressures, while recording 50 tackles (31 solos), three sacks and nine stops for losses. He also picked off a pass, batted down two others and caused one fumble.
In 2006, Crowder was named a finalist for the Hendricks Award and a quarterfinalist for the Lott Trophy (defensive IMPACT player of the year). A second-team All-American selection by Walter Camp, he was also a consensus first-team All-Big 12 pick. The team captain produced a career-high 59 tackles (39 solos) with 10½ sacks (11th on the school single-season record list) and 18 stops behind the line of scrimmage (13th on the Texas annual record chart). He had 20 pressures with four forced fumbles and recovered a fumble for a score.
In 51 games at Texas, Crowder started his final 47 contests at left defensive end. He recorded 191 tackles (118 solos) with 19 sacks for minus-120 yards and 40 stops for losses totaling 158 yards. He added 76 quarterback pressures with two interceptions and 13 pass deflections. He also had eight forced fumbles and two fumble recoveries, returning one for a touchdown.
</td></tr> </tbody></table> <table id="section" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr class="label"><td>ANALYSIS</td></tr> <tr class="copy"><td> Positives: Has an adequate frame, but shows decent muscle development in his arms and a good bubble, but also has room to add at least another 10 pounds of bulk without having it affect his quickness. … Has natural playing strength and adequate quickness that he uses in battles with offensive tackles to disengage. … Can shed quickly vs. single blocks when he keeps his hands active and has the functional short-area burst to pressure the pocket. … Plays with proper knee bend and adequate flexibility, running with a normal stride. … Has enough hip snap to redirect and the burst to close on the ball carrier. … Spends his extra hours in the weight room trying to improve his impressive strength. … Blue-collar type who has total command in the huddle and does a good job of keeping the younger players in check. … Has the balance to keep his feet active flashing through traffic. … Swings his hips around and stays low in his pads to work to the ball in pursuit. … Has the agility to plant and drive out of his breaks, and the quickness off the snap to push offensive linemen back on their heels. … Quick enough to turn the corner and agile enough to counter in-line blocking. … Uses his hands aggressively, delivering a punishing initial jolt. … Flows to the ball well and does a good job of sinking his weight and putting his foot firmly into the ground to hold firmly at the point of attack. … When he keeps his hands inside his frame, he is effective at shedding. … Has the torque agility to get a push off the blocker and close on the cutback lanes. … Beats most blocks coming off the edge, but needs to show better pre-snap awareness (can be pulled offside). … Will not hesitate to face up to the bigger linemen; he does a nice job of fitting on the run to finish. … When he comes off blocks low, he can consistently stop the ball carrier's forward charge. … Extends his arms well to beat off reach blocks; he keeps his hands active in attempts to shed. … Closes on the pocket with good urgency; he displayed better slant ability and took better angles to pressure the quarterback in 2006. … Good wrap-up tackler who hits with force and has the reach-around ability to strip the ball carrier from the pigskin. … Times his leaps well to knock down the pass at the line of scrimmage. … Despite giving up considerable bulk, he is stout at the point of attack working on the edge. … Attacks the outside hard and keeps his balance while holding his ground firmly vs. the power charge. … Keeps his feet moving when attacking and has enough balance to slip past blocks.
Negatives: Has good weight-room strength, but appears to have thin ankles and legs, which could cause problems for him trying to anchor vs. the bigger blockers at the pro level. … Has good lateral agility, but needs to apply it more often; he seems to coast a bit and take plays off when having to move long distances. … Battles a little too high on occasion when redirecting inside and sometimes stops his feet, rather than driving through when making the tackle. … Tends to stay on the ground when leveled, rather than getting up quickly to bounce back into the play. … Not really an explosive pass rusher due to adequate speed coming off the edge, but has enough short-area burst to pressure the pocket if given a clear path to the ball. … Has to get lower coming off the snap to prevent blockers from getting their hands on him. … While he generates a nice surge off the snap, he needs to vary his speeds; he sometimes overpursues the play and doesn't always give the effort needed to recover. … Will close in a hurry in plays in front of him, but does not seem to like chasing the play in long pursuit. … Has active hands, but when he fails to keep them inside the frame, he struggles to disengage.
Compares To: Matt Roth, Miami Dolphins -- Like Roth, Crowder plays with good intensity, but will get a bit reckless at times and overpursue the play. He is effective at gaining pressure coming off the edge, but lacks the elite speed to be a quality pass rusher. He will take a few plays off, especially when having to move laterally down the line. He is best served coming off the edge, but needs to be quicker with his hands attempting to shed.
</td></tr> </tbody></table> <table id="section" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr class="label"><td>INJURY REPORT</td></tr> <tr class="copy"><td> 2005: Played most of the season with three dislocated fingers he suffered in fall camp.
</td></tr> </tbody></table> <table id="section" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr class="label"><td>AGILITY TESTS</td></tr> <tr class="copy"><td colspan="2"> Campus: 4.76 in the 40-yard dash. … 440-pound bench press. … 505-pound squat. … 317-pound power clean. … 31-inch vertical jump.
</td></tr> </tbody></table> <table id="section" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr class="label"><td>HIGH SCHOOL</td></tr> <tr class="copy"><td colspan="2"> Attended John Tyler (Tyler, Texas) High School, playing football for head coach Kelvin Ratliff. … Excelled in football and baseball, as he lettered three times for the football team, starting during his final two seasons at defensive end. … Earned all-state Class 5A and all-district honors as a senior and was an honorable mention all-district choice as a junior. … Registered 127 tackles, 22 stops behind the line of scrimmage and 14 sacks in his final two seasons. … Posted 55 tackles, nine sacks, 12 stops for losses and a forced fumble as a senior. … His top games were a 10-tackle, one-sack performance vs. Tyler Lee High and a three-sack effort vs. Lufkin High. … Recorded eight stops, a sack and 10 quarterback pressures in a victory against Arlington Bowie High. He made 72 tackles (26 solos), 10 stops for losses and five sacks as a junior. … Saw limited action at tight end and moved up to the varsity for team's run to the 5A Division II championship game as a sophomore. … Added three letters in baseball (pitcher, first base), earning all-district honors after posting a better than .400 batting average as a senior. … Also pitched a one-hitter.
</td></tr> </tbody></table> <table id="section" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="label"><td>PERSONAL</td></tr> <tr class="copy"><td colspan="2"> Liberal Arts major. … Active in UT's community service program, as well as in his hometown of Tyler. … Born Timothy C. Crowder on 6/30/85 in Tyler, Texas.
</td></tr></tbody></table>

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Superbowl here we come!!!!

Might want to make the playoffs first. Baby steps.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Strengths:
Has decent size and bulk for the position...Good strength...Does a nice job versus the run and is stout at the point...Uses his hands well...Athletic with good range and can drop into coverage...Technically and fundamentally sound...Is very smart and a hard worker with a great motor and excellent intangibles...Very tough and has been durable...Productive...Has a ton of experience against top competition.

Weaknesses:
Does not have great speed or a burst...Is not really a sack artist...His agility and quickness are just average...Will struggle to disengage from blocks...Is somewhat inconsistent...Overaggressive at times...Probably doesn't have very much upside.

Notes:
Four-year starter for the Longhorns...Had the best season of his career by far as a senior...Was also a good baseball player in high school...A jack-of-all-trades but master of none who's solid but doesn't really stand out in any one area...He will never be an elite pass rusher but he can be a good all-around player in the pros.

[Popps]

WOOOHOOOOO! This is it baby, Bates knows what its about and Shanahan is listening to this D-coordinator. Superbowl here we come!!!!

This is great stuff.

I remember the Coyer debates during the off-season. A few of us said that Shanahan probably needed someone with a little clout to come in and put his stamp on the defense.

Looks like it's happening. I hope we trade for Jenkins and take a couple more DL and a LB, now.

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

Well there's the bigger, run-stopping DE people said we missed with Moss. I was honestly torn between him, Charles Johnson (a better pass rusher at DE), and the less-sexy, less needed pick of a still available Ryan Kalil. Whatever, Crowder makes me happy. Let's pick up Soliai with 70 and call it a day.

?

Here are numbers for you

Tim Crowder
Year---GP----GS-----Tkl-----TFL------Sacks------BB-----FF----FR
2003---13----9------35------3--------1-----------5------2-----0
2004---12----12-----47------10-------4.5---------4------1-----1
2005---13----13-----50------9--------3-----------2------1-----0
2006---13----13-----59------18-------10.5--------3------4-----1

Charles Johnson
Year----GP---GS-----Tkl-----TFL------Sacks-------BB----FF----FR
2004----9----0------6-------2--------1------------0-----1-----0
2005----13---0------23------8.5------4------------2-----1-----2
2006----13---13-----44------19-------9.5----------10----3-----1

[Barry Ramey]

Wow, didn't think Crowder would still be around, solid choice. Getting two DE's is a good idea, especially with Ekuban and I think Lang also a free agent soon. Serious about the DL for a change. They may go after Grady Jackson as well.

[CBF1]

CBF1 approves of the Crowder pick..... and the Moss pick as well. I am very pleased we are going after Defensive lineman, which as we all know has been the downfall of this broncos team the last 2-3 years now. All we need is a good tackle and we are set on the D line.

[OrangeShadow]

michael bush at 70??

[REB]

I take it Shanny is finally sick and tired like the rest of us of watching the QB having all day back there :) Works for me.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/REB65/SigBroncos.gif

1-2-3-:Broncos:!!!!!!! :charge:

[REB]

michael bush at 70??

I wonder if the packers are thinking about taking him. I read somewhere that he was a guy they were looking at.

[REB]

Well, I guess not :)

[bpc]

He reminds me a lot of Alex Brown coming out. He'll dominate in spurts.

Can't argue with the pick. I had some other guys I liked a little bit better but he has put together a very solid career.

Lets handle this DE once and for all.

[U GOT JACKED UP]

Green Bay took Brandon Jackson.

[Barry Ramey]

I just don't see why people keep wanting the Broncos to take Bush when next years draft will have a lot of quality RB's and ones that are not coming off an injury either and better prospects than Bush anyway. Broncos would be better taking a WR, safety, LB, or DT in the 3rd than Bush.

[thebroncosnation]

not a bad pick. I would like to see us get either Tank Tyler of H.B Blades with the 3rd rounder. Blades is a lot like Al Wilson so that probably won't happen. Overall this day has been a big success I think.

[youcandoit1687]

Okay, IMO, possible picks for 70:

DTs Tank Tyler, Paul Soliai, Marcus Thomas, or Ray McDonald

OTs James Marten, Doug Free, Ryan Harris

LBs Brandon Siler or Stewart Bradley

Ss John Wendling, Josh Gattis, Aaron Rouse, or Michael Johnson

RB Michael Bush

WRs Aundrae Allison or Johnnie Lee Higgins

I don't particulary like the last two positions but they are possibilities. Higgins could be a great fit though, all depends on Hixon.

[Florida_Bronco]

Green Bay took Brandon Jackson.

Go Huskers! :notworthy :notworthy

[Dedhed]

I love it! As soon as Justin Durant went off the board I was hoping Crowder would make it to us. Crowder is a nice value pick himself, who also adds value to the Moss pick. Crowder is already an every down type DE, and Moss can contribute as a situational guy while he develops into the same.

[Willynowei]

The only negative on this guy is that he looks really freakin slow on the 30 second clip on ESPN, otherwise he's got talent and he works hard, and he's got a great injury track record. Those three usually = dominance.

[Inkana7]

Kris Jenkins, Tank Tyler, Wendling,Gattis or Rouse at #70 and I'll go to bed VREY happy.

Good draft so far, IMO. We're finally paying attention to the DLine. Love it.

[Wes Mantooth]

Might want to make the playoffs first. Baby steps.

Game away two years ago boob. Try winning playoff games before commenting.

[Dedhed]

michael bush at 70??
For the love of god, no. Travis Henry is a franchise back. When are people going to realize that?

[footstepsfrom#27]

Kris Jenkins, Tank Tyler, Wendling,Gattis or Rouse at #70 and I'll go to bed VREY happy.

Good draft so far, IMO. We're finally paying attention to the DLine. Love it.
Wendling is gone I think.

[Willynowei]

Might want to make the playoffs first. Baby steps.

Yeah you are right, I get excited, so do most Broncos fans and other fans of winning football teams. Great to be one, you should try sometime Bob.

[Dedhed]

Tank Tyler, Earl Everett, Brandon Mebane

[thebroncosnation]

not a bad pick. I would like to see us get either Tank Tyler of H.B Blades with the 3rd rounder. Blades is a lot like Al Wilson so that probably won't happen. Overall this day has been a big success I think.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Yeah you are right, I get excited, so do most Broncos fans and other fans of winning football teams. Great to be one, you should try sometime Bob.

WTF?

Moron.

[Steve Sewell]

WTF?

Moron.

Even a moron would know the difference between 3 and 12 months, don't ya think, Bob? Still trying to define your level of stupidity and gutlessness.

[Cito Pelon]

I like it. He's big, strong, and fast. Could develop into a good strong side end for Bates' system.

Guess it sends the message regarding Dumervil's future. Rotational/STs future for him.

I guess so. I thought the team could make do with Elvis, seeings how they need LB's. I guess they don't figure they need LB's.

[ZONA]

Might want to make the playoffs first. Baby steps.

Might want to win a playoff game more often then every 20 years before telling a real team how to set season expectations.

[chaz]

love the crowder pick!!!

[Broncoman13]

Funny, a few weeks ago I was very torn between Crowder and Jarvis Moss. I didn't think Crowder would make it around to us in the 2nd and didn't want to take him in the 1st... I like how this turned out for us!!! I wish we would have traded down a little bit instead of up in the 1st. David Harris would have been an excellent pick and we would have got some pretty good value for the rights to Brady Quinn. Such is life though. Moss is still returning from injury and he will get stronger and bigger. Med thinks highly of him so it will be interesting to see how he turns out. I was really hoping we would land Justin Harrell. He's going to be a great DT in the NFL for a good long while. Maybe not on the same level as Tommie Harris or Seymour, but Henderson and Stroud are very similar. Oh well, so far (counting Harris) I'd say we're a solid B.

[Drek]

I guess so. I thought the team could make do with Elvis, seeings how they need LB's. I guess they don't figure they need LB's.
Dumervil isn't playing LDE though and neither is Moss, even in Bates' spread DE formations.

The new defensive regime obviously rates Moss highly, so he's a shoe in to take over RDE now. Didn't change the fact that we still need an every down LDE type who can rush the passer and stop the run. Thats Crowder.

We're very lucky to get two exceptional athletes like these two in the same draft.

[Garcia Bronco]

this is the best pick we made today

[Clockwork Orange]

Just saw an interview with Crowder. Dude has vampire teeth. I'm not kidding, he's got some sharp choppers on him.

Loved this pick, by the way. :thumbs:

[nickademus]

This guy is awesome he will be what we hoped Courtney Brown would be a strong side D-end with some pass rush capeability.

[azbroncfan]

Might want to win a playoff game more often then every 20 years before telling a real team how to set season expectations.

You have to remember KC fans and management are just happy making playoffs were Denver Owner/management/fans want rings.

[SouthStndJunkie]

I now think that Crowder will be the draft pick that has the biggest impact on the team this year. I think he will be the first to start for us and will be pretty darn solid. I went back and watched some video clips as well as an old Texas game I had recorded and Crowder has a great motor and is tough against the run.

I think he has a better all around game than Jarvis Moss at this point and is more NFL ready at this point. Moss may have more upside down the line as a pass rusher, but Crowder will probably be the more complete player.

[Rascal]

I think him and Thomas both will. I fully expect Crowder to start next year once Ekuban becomes a FA.

[Odysseus]

Even as rotational depth the Broncos are going to show up with some THUMP on the line which is what they have been missing for awhile.

[SouthStndJunkie]

Nobody can cry about the Broncos not addressing the defensive line in this draft. I am actually a bigger fan of the Crowder and Thomas picks than I am the Jarvis Moss pick. Moss has the talent, but has a lot of work to do. Once a tackle locks him up he is pretty much useless. But he has the upside and if he is coachable he should improve as an all around player down the line.

[BroncoInferno]

Nobody can cry about the Broncos not addressing the defensive line in this draft. I am actually a bigger fan of the Crowder and Thomas picks than I am the Jarvis Moss pick. Moss has the talent, but has a lot of work to do. Once a tackle locks him up he is pretty much useless. But he has the upside and if he is coachable he should improve as an all around player down the line.

That will be true of Moss initially in the run game, but he will make an immediate impact as a pass rusher. His explosive first step combined with his impressive snap anticipation is going to be difficult for tackles to deal with right off the bat in pass situations. I do agree, though, that Crowder is more complete at this point and has a better chance to start.

[Odysseus]

I think it's the combination of the two that makes both picks interesting.

Crowder is going to force the DE to kick it up and notch. We really don't have anybody like Moss on our roster. That first step...guys...you can't really account for that. You line him up in the right setup and he's going to raise havoc. He is not an every down DE but you put him on the right guy and just the change up will allow him to get away with some plays. Don't get me wrong. That won't work on everybody and it certainly won't work for long but while he's getting good I bet he gets away with a few where teams actually underestimate him.

[Drek]

I think him and Thomas both will. I fully expect Crowder to start next year once Ekuban becomes a FA.

I expect Crowder to technically "start" next year opposite Ekuban. Lang, Dumervil, and Moss at this point are not 1st and 2nd down DEs. They'll get killed against the run (like Lang did last year, he and Meyers teamed up to form the weakest right half of a DL I've ever seen). Crowder is ready to take that job already. I doubt he'll see the field a lot in pass rushing situations as we have a plethora of guys for that job, but I think he and Ekuban will be our bulls on first and second downs, stuffing the run and keeping the QB's time in the pocket to a minimum.

[Inkana7]

I expect Crowder to technically "start" next year opposite Ekuban. Lang, Dumervil, and Moss at this point are not 1st and 2nd down DEs. They'll get killed against the run (like Lang did last year, he and Meyers teamed up to form the weakest right half of a DL I've ever seen). Crowder is ready to take that job already. I doubt he'll see the field a lot in pass rushing situations as we have a plethora of guys for that job, but I think he and Ekuban will be our bulls on first and second downs, stuffing the run and keeping the QB's time in the pocket to a minimum.

I agree. Denver should have two rookies starting this year on the D-Line. Thomas and Crowder.

Love this pick. Really big, really fast, team leader, was on a National Championship team and a Rose Bowl team, has a good motor and is explosive.

Love it.

[Requiem]

*kicks back and relaxes* I'm so happy that my favorite player in this years draft is on our team.

[Kaylore]

Tim Crowder was not my favorite. He is sort of a jack of all trades type that never was amazing at one particular thing. He played for four years but only really did well this last one. He is a workhorse and has a good chance to succeed at the pro-level, but his ceiling is lower and I don't think he'll ever be a real sack-getter like some of these other guys. He is an upgrade and for people worried about poor character rookies, this guy is as good as it gets: A hard worker and a team leader.

[Inkana7]

Tim Crowder was not my favorite. He is sort of a jack of all trades type that never was amazing at one particular thing. He played for four years but only really did well this last one. He is a workhorse and has a good chance to succeed at the pro-level, but his ceiling is lower and I don't think he'll ever be a real sack-getter like some of these other guys. He is an upgrade and for people worried about poor character rookies, this guy is as good as it gets: A hard worker and a team leader.

We're not wanting him to have 15 sacks a season. We're wanting him to be that guy who can stuff the run, cause havoc, and maybe pile up 5-10 sacks a year.

[Kaylore]

We're not wanting him to have 15 sacks a season. We're wanting him to be that guy who can stuff the run, cause havoc, and maybe pile up 5-10 sacks a year.

I know, and if that's all he does, I'm fine with that. Ekuban is 31, so why not look to add depth at his position.

[azbroncfan]

We're not wanting him to have 15 sacks a season. We're wanting him to be that guy who can stuff the run, cause havoc, and maybe pile up 5-10 sacks a year.

Who wouldn't WANT him to have 15 sacks? I know you mean he isn't going to be a 15 sack but a solid all around but not spectacular player.

[Rascal]

I expect Crowder to technically "start" next year opposite Ekuban. Lang, Dumervil, and Moss at this point are not 1st and 2nd down DEs. They'll get killed against the run (like Lang did last year, he and Meyers teamed up to form the weakest right half of a DL I've ever seen). Crowder is ready to take that job already. I doubt he'll see the field a lot in pass rushing situations as we have a plethora of guys for that job, but I think he and Ekuban will be our bulls on first and second downs, stuffing the run and keeping the QB's time in the pocket to a minimum.

I expect two of Lang, Ekuban, and Engleberger to be gone next year.

I think they will try to get Moss to bulk up (260) and improve his strength. If so I don't think he will a big liability against the run and could become Denver's Jason Taylor and play every down.

[Cito Pelon]

Dumervil isn't playing LDE though and neither is Moss, even in Bates' spread DE formations.

The new defensive regime obviously rates Moss highly, so he's a shoe in to take over RDE now. Didn't change the fact that we still need an every down LDE type who can rush the passer and stop the run. Thats Crowder.

We're very lucky to get two exceptional athletes like these two in the same draft.

Well, I don't understand the first sentence. Elvis was playing LDE last year. Are you saying no way Elvis could play LDE in Bates' scheme? I guess that's true, since Crowder was picked to be the LDE. Moss will have to be an everydown DE, and I expect to see him on the field most of the snaps. A speed RDE will always be a "liability" against the run so I'm ready for the inevitable times when Moss is in an outside rush - which he will be most of the time - and it's play-action. That's the price you pay for a RDE that can harass the QB when he does a straight dropback.

Crowder, I don't see this guy as an around the RT's right shoulder passrusher like Elvis was last year from LDE, but as you said that's not necessarily what the team wants or needs from an LDE.

The big deal in the draft to me is Marcus Thomas. As many people have stated, to have a great passrush there has to be pressure from the middle, not just pressure from the ends.

Elvis I would have been fine with since I thought the team would have served themselves well with a top LB, S, OT in round 2. Apparently, the team wanted Timmons if he was available, and wanted an OT and S also, but who was available after all the trade-ups in round 2?

I hope the team can find a place for Elvis still. He's a happy kid, and that's always good for the locker room.

So after all this rambling, I think the team had a good draft. They've certainly made the DL look better and the OL to some degree, so now they can exhale in relief and move on to conditioning and chalktalk.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I expect two of Lang, Ekuban, and Engleberger to be gone next year.

Ekuban has been a productive Bronco, and really the best lineman on the team over the past two seasons.

I think they will try to get Moss to bulk up (260) and improve his strength. If so I don't think he will a big liability against the run and could become Denver's Jason Taylor and play every down.

I think that people get too hung up on the measureables of players like Moss. The dude can fly. He'll be fine at whatever weight he plays at as long as he doesnt weigh too much.

[Cito Pelon]

We're not wanting him to have 15 sacks a season. We're wanting him to be that guy who can stuff the run, cause havoc, and maybe pile up 5-10 sacks a year.

"Cry 'havoc', and loose the dogs of war!" [Shakespeare ~ "Julius Caesar"]. One of my favorite lines ever, so I thought I'd share that. "Havoc" is a good word, the derivation is from the Goth I believe.

[Requiem]

Tim Crowder was not my favorite. He is sort of a jack of all trades type that never was amazing at one particular thing. He played for four years but only really did well this last one. He is a workhorse and has a good chance to succeed at the pro-level, but his ceiling is lower and I don't think he'll ever be a real sack-getter like some of these other guys. He is an upgrade and for people worried about poor character rookies, this guy is as good as it gets: A hard worker and a team leader.

I expect him to have a Greg Ellis type career. 50-60 tackles per year, forced fumbles, 7-9 sacks.

[SpringStein]

Not watching many Texas games, I'm depending on 'horns fans - and there are too many of those ;) - that I've heard say that part of Crowder's "unimpressiveness" was the assignments he had, more to contain than to be set loose.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Not watching many Texas games, I'm depending on 'horns fans - and there are too many of those ;) - that I've heard say that part of Crowder's "unimpressiveness" was the assignments he had, more to contain than to be set loose.

I'm sure that that's why the BBT valued Crowder over guys like Charles Johnson. Crowder fits the mold.

[worm]

That's the price you pay for a RDE that can harass the QB when he does a straight dropback.


Worth the price...as every RDE harassment will most likely drive the QB towards the Broncos best defensive weapon.

If Moss does his job....then this is the year that Champ wins the DMVP.

[Drek]

I expect two of Lang, Ekuban, and Engleberger to be gone next year.

I think they will try to get Moss to bulk up (260) and improve his strength. If so I don't think he will a big liability against the run and could become Denver's Jason Taylor and play every down.

Yeah, my mistake, I meant this year. Crowder and Ekuban will probably be our starters on running situations and we rotate Lang, Moss, and Dumervil as relief and pass rushers.

Next year I wouldn't be surprised if all three of the guys you mentioned are gone. Crowder will take over LDE and Moss/Dumervil will split RDE and taking LDE for passing downs.

Well, I don't understand the first sentence. Elvis was playing LDE last year. Are you saying no way Elvis could play LDE in Bates' scheme? I guess that's true, since Crowder was picked to be the LDE. Moss will have to be an everydown DE, and I expect to see him on the field most of the snaps. A speed RDE will always be a "liability" against the run so I'm ready for the inevitable times when Moss is in an outside rush - which he will be most of the time - and it's play-action. That's the price you pay for a RDE that can harass the QB when he does a straight dropback.

Thats exactly what I meant, Dumervil is too small to play LDE as anything but a situational pass rusher. We needed some size that can control the LOS, we got it in Crowder.

Moss will need to be an every down starter himself, but it'll be at RDE. I don't think its a doom and gloom prognosis for Dumervil though. A lot of very good rush ends do their work in a situational/rotational role. It'll only make us a better team having three DEs who can get after the QB.

[Barry Ramey]

Ekuban and Engelberger are both free agents after next season and Lang will be what, 33-34 years old? So odds are all 3 do not have long stints left with this team, so I'm sure that was something Shanahan and Bates looked at and another reason why they took 2 DE's high in the draft.

[-Slap-]

People seem to be expecting Crowder to make the biggest initial impact among the young defensive linemen, but I think he'll be a guy who shows steady growth as a player. He's got nice measurables and a terrific work ethic. He's also going to be extremely well coached. I've seen some scouting reports who question his upside and it really makes no sense to me. He's got nearly prototype size and his timed speed is outstanding. He's also got an impressive base, which is the most overlooked feature in any lineman. I think he'll be a player who improves every season for his first several years in the League.

[Swedish Extrovert]

Two DEs? Shades of '05!

If he turns out to be another Reggie Hayward, I'll be happy.

[Atlas]

I'm not sure if Ecuban makes the team. He should talent wise but he doesn't really fit Bates idea of a light fast, quick DE.

[Willynowei]

I'm very confused right now. I understand that the play style of Crowder has been unspectacular but why are people saying his ceiling is not as high as Moss?

Moss: 6'6, 255, 4.7 forty, 4.41 shuttle, 16 reps of 225, 1.52 sec 10 yard dash, 30 1/2" vertical, 10'0" broad jump, 7.21 cone drill

Crowder: 6'4 272, 4.69 forty, 4.32 shuttle, 32 reps of 225, 1.59 sec 10 yard dash, 30 1/2" vertical, 9'3" broad jump, 7.28 cone drill

Now, can someone please explain to me how a dude who runs a faster forty, faster shuttle and presses more than the 2nd rated pass rusher in the draft does not have high potential? People criticize his first step, but you don't run a 4.69 forty or a 1.59 10 yard dash with a slow first step. Moss had the same 1.59 sec 10 yard dash when he was at the combine at 260lbs, he lost weight for the pro day work outs where he got a faster forty and shuttle. Crowder's 10 yard dash tells me he has a hell of a first step, infact Gaines Adam's 10 yard dash is 1.58 seconds, one hundredth of a second faster than Crowder who is 14lbs heavier.

Watching the dude on film, he plays way too high and doesn't attack or read the snap count well. To me this kid needs someone to coach him on how to explode, theres a lot of technique that goes into that. We will see what bates does with him.

I'm just completely baffeled by the popular assesment of Crowder as an unspectacular talent who will be very solid. Yes he's a hard worker, but he's a huge talent, and a lot of it is untapped. We'll just have to see if those numbers translate onto the field.

[Drek]

I'm just completely baffeled by the popular assesment of Crowder as an unspectacular talent who will be very solid. Yes he's a hard worker, but he's a huge talent, and a lot of it is untapped. We'll just have to see if those numbers translate onto the field.

I don't agree with the sentiment that Crowder has limited upside. I think he could be a 60+ tackle, 7-10 sack guy a year from the LDE position. Thats pretty damn special if you ask me.

He just doesn't have the pass rushing talent of Moss, it isn't evident in drills but it pops out the minute you watch them play. Crowder is a bull, fast and strong, he goes straight at guys. Moss is an athlete who uses his exceptional frame and lateral agility to get around blockers. The end result is that when Moss is a finished product he should be sacking QBs before they have time to throw regardless of coverage, he'll be in the backfield that fast. Crowder meanwhile will be a more constant pocket pressure but he'll need coverage to buy him some time for it to result in a sack.

I don't see it as one having better upside than the other, we drafted a future RDE and a future LDE. They both will be every down guys in two or three years.

[Requiem]

I don't think Tim Crowder has limited upside, but I don't think he has as much potential as Moss. I think Crowder or Thomas will be the first big contributors to this team though.

[Mediator12]

Finally, talent to the DE position has been addressed. For that, I can finally remove the DL mantra from my profile.

I have a lot of reservations about Crowder that came up when evaluating him though. Most of it translates to the mental side of things:

1. For all the talk about his physical talents, there was a reason he was the seventh DE off the board and that is that he is a marginal pass rusher. If you watch his film, he lacks that innate ability to take the edge and force the OT's to commit outside and be able to make inside moves off of their commitment. He is a physical talent for sure, but it does not translate to his pass rushing abilities.

2. Also, people miss that he started 47 games out of 51 in four years and amassed less than 20 sacks with 10.5 coming this last year against mediocre competition like Rice, Iowa State, and Baylor. He had 3 sacks as a Junior. He is a very accomplished college starter with inconsistent dominance at that level. How is he going to be a dominant LDE at the next level?

3. Arkansas used Jamaal Anderson in creative ways in order to manufacture sacks for him last year. They designed line stunts and even used 5 DL fronts in order to get Anderson a clear shot at opposing QB's. Texas finally did some of the same things for Crowder this year with their fronts and pressure. His sacks this year were not the result of just beating the guy lined up in front of him more consistently, some were schemed and executed versus below average OL's.

4. His work ethic on the field scares me. He gives up on plays away from him way too early and often for me. He looks like he goes through the motions way too much and does not go hard every snap.

5. He played on a team with ten other guys who also are going to be playing defense in the NFL over the last three years and never stood out on any game tape as a playmaker.


Now, that being said, he is walking into a great situation where much is going to be expected of him and the new defensive coaching staff. He is going to have to work his ass off, but if he would just apply himself a little more and learn from a true DL guru in Bates, then he could finally become more than a second fiddle pass rusher and a very solid overall DE. One thing is for sure, he upgrades the talent on the DL immensely. Now, I just want him to harness that talent better than he did at Texas.

[SoCalBronco]

Finally, talent to the DE position has been addressed. For that, I can finally remove the DL mantra from my profile.

I have a lot of reservations about Crowder that came up when evaluating him though. Most of it translates to the mental side of things:

1. For all the talk about his physical talents, there was a reason he was the seventh DE off the board and that is that he is a marginal pass rusher. If you watch his film, he lacks that innate ability to take the edge and force the OT's to commit outside and be able to make inside moves off of their commitment. He is a physical talent for sure, but it does not translate to his pass rushing abilities.

2. Also, people miss that he started 47 games out of 51 in four years and amassed less than 20 sacks with 10.5 coming this last year against mediocre competition like Rice, Iowa State, and Baylor. He had 3 sacks as a Junior. He is a very accomplished college starter with inconsistent dominance at that level. How is he going to be a dominant LDE at the next level?

3. Arkansas used Jamaal Anderson in creative ways in order to manufacture sacks for him last year. They designed line stunts and even used 5 DL fronts in order to get Anderson a clear shot at opposing QB's. Texas finally did some of the same things for Crowder this year with their fronts and pressure. His sacks this year were not the result of just beating the guy lined up in front of him more consistently, some were schemed and executed versus below average OL's.

4. His work ethic on the field scares me. He gives up on plays away from him way too early and often for me. He looks like he goes through the motions way too much and does not go hard every snap.

5. He played on a team with ten other guys who also are going to be playing defense in the NFL over the last three years and never stood out on any game tape as a playmaker.


Now, that being said, he is walking into a great situation where much is going to be expected of him and the new defensive coaching staff. He is going to have to work his ass off, but if he would just apply himself a little more and learn from a true DL guru in Bates, then he could finally become more than a second fiddle pass rusher and a very solid overall DE. One thing is for sure, he upgrades the talent on the DL immensely. Now, I just want him to harness that talent better than he did at Texas.

Very good stuff as usual, Med.

Hopefully the team's recent string of better drafts will continue this year.