Quinn to Raiders

[Rascal]

By Mark Maske
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, April 27, 2007; Page E01

NEW YORK, April 27 -- In a stunning last-minute twist, the Oakland Raiders agreed to a contract with Brady Quinn and announced they will use the top pick in tomorrows NFL draft on the Notre Damn quarterback instead of on LSU quarterback Jamarcus Russell.

PFT is saying that the Faid are going to draft Quinn.

Earlier they reported that they low balled him. I guess he decided being low balled #1 money, was better then #3 money or possibly worse.

[Rascal]

KFF lis also saying this:
Raiders | Deal with Cleveland a possibility?
Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:05:48 -0700

ESPN's Ed Werder reports there is a chance the Oakland Raiders work out a trade with the Cleveland Browns during the first round of the NFL Draft. There is speculation the Browns could send WR Braylon Edwards to the Raiders in addition to the No. 3 pick overall for the first-overall selection

and

PFT:
RUMORS FLY OF QUINN TO RAIDERS

There are rumors right now in media circles that the Raiders are closing in on a deal with (drum roll, please) Notre Dame quarterback Brady Quinn, who would then be named the No. 1 overall pick in the draft.

Adam Schefter of NFL Network tipped us off to the rumor. Mark Maske of the Washington Post acknowledges the rumor in a Friday afternoon chat, but he says he's not reporting that the deal is done.

We heard earlier in the week that the Raiders had made an initial offer to Quinn. We have since heard that, while hard numbers were not presented to Quinn's agent, Tom Condon, there was enough discussion about parameters and terms to give him a sufficient idea as to the ballpark amount of the deal.

[Man-Goblin]

Wow. The #2 and #3 picks just got more interesting.

Don't you think Detroit has to take Russell now pushing CJ to #3? (edit, the Braylon Edwards thing is mystifying to me if true. That is a pretty big price to pay to move up two spots).

[Garcia Bronco]

I knew it...this was the right choice too...

[maven]

I'm not surprised by this if it's true.

[Master___Pain]

I knew it...this was the right choice too...

For the Broncos it's the right choice. I was keeping my finger crossed that Oakland would take Quinn somehow. I hope this rumor is true.

[Antilles]

No done deal yet (per this Mark Maske guy is is apparently the source of the rumor). See below:

Canal Fulton, Ohio: Mark, is there any truth to the rumors that the Oakland Raiders have agreed to terms with Brady Quinn for the first overall pick rather than JaMarcus Russell or Calvin Johnson?

Mark Maske: I'm hearing the same rumor. Right now, I'm not certain if it's true.


Mark Maske: I've got to run, folks. Thanks for the questions, as always, and we'll talk soon. By the way, I just heard from someone that I trust on these issues and was told there's no deal done at this point between the Raiders and Brady Quinn, so put that rumor to rest for at least a little while. Of course, things will probably change three or four more times by the end of the day, so who knows? It looks like it'll be a fun draft.

[footstepsfrom#27]

So if Cleveland's trying to move to #1 does that mean they'll take Russell or Johnson? ???

This is getting confusing.

[maven]

So this deal is not true...

[Garcia Bronco]

For the Broncos it's the right choice. I was keeping my finger crossed that Oakland would take Quinn somehow. I hope this rumor is true.

I think Quinn is going to be a good QB. He played great last season. Oakland will ruin anyone, but this is the right move from the Raiders perspective if it's true

[Hotrod]

I knew it...this was the right choice too...

Yep if I'm in charge of the faid we take Quinn or trade down to #3

[RkyMtnThunder]

Dont most teams with the #1 pick in a draft discuss contract framework with more than one target candidate?

Isnt that why Texans went with Mario last year, after not liking the idea of negotiating a deal with Bush?

[Master___Pain]

I think Quinn is going to be a good QB. He played great last season. Oakland will ruin anyone, but this is the right move from the Raiders perspective if it's true

I think Quinn is going to be a colossal bust. I don't see "it" with Quinn. If he's from another school but ND he's a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

[eddie mac]

Dont most teams with the #1 pick in a draft discuss contract framework with more than one target candidate?

Isnt that why Texans went with Mario last year, after not liking the idea of negotiating a deal with Bush?

Exactly.

Latest various reports have stated that the Raiders are close to agreeing contracts with both Russell and Quinn but are nowhere near agreement with Johnson.

[bloodsunday]

Seems like hooey to me!

This is getting confusing but I think it will be much less of a surprise when it unfolds than all these rumors going around. Teams in the 1 - 4 slot have a tough time trading because of the huge $$$ guaranteed to players in those slots. CJ is the only guy I think someone would make a play for in that group. Quinn and Russell are both lesser candidates than any of last year's group. Who wants to trade up and give Jamarcus Russell $60M? A GM with a death wish, that's who. These days getting the #1 overall pick is a bit like getting stuck with that pick.

I also think Detroit will take CJ #2 overall. They want too much for a team to trade up and they aren't dumb enough (I don't think) to let a guy that hyped get away -- even if its their 8th #1 WR.

[Rohirrim]

I was just watching Adam on NFL Network five minutes ago and he said nothing about this.

[broncofan]

Good...I hope they do draft Quinn. He doesn't frighten me in the least...

[Rascal]

I was just watching Adam on NFL Network five minutes ago and he said nothing about this.

He's been too busy under Shanny's desk to get under Al's.

[El Minion]

2007 Quarterbacks Draft Preview (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/04/17/ramblings/nfl-draft/5082/)
4/17/2007

by David Lewin

This year, as usual, a number of teams at the top of the draft are looking quarterback. The apples of scouts’ eyes this time around are Brady Quinn and JaMarcus Russell. Quinn is the All-American boy, a four-year starter at Notre Dame, with all the measurables that teams look for. Russell, an early entry after his junior year, is more of a dark horse. He never achieved the level of success Quinn did in college, but he soundly outplayed Quinn in their head-to-head matchup at the Sugar Bowl and has ridiculous physical talent.

Still, if we’ve learned anything about the NFL draft in recent years it’s that there’s no such thing as a can’t miss prospect, especially at the quarterback position. After Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Joey Harrington, Akili Smith, David Carr, etc. teams are more wary than ever about taking a QB high.

Last year, in Pro Football Prospectus 2006, I introduced a system for predicting the NFL passing performance of first- and second-round quarterbacks by looking at their on college statistics. (I may try to project running ability in the future, but it is not currently included.) After gathering and analyzing extensive data, I determined that games started and completion percentage in college were strong predictors of NFL success.

In fact, for first- and second-round quarterbacks these two variables explain roughly 65 percent of the variation in NFL performance. This is a remarkably high number given how much of an impact we believe that teammates have on a quarterback’s play. The system accurately predicted Philip Rivers’ breakout season, and the success or lack thereof, of many other young passers. With an eye on this research I take a closer look at the pro prospects of Russell, Quinn, and the other quarterbacks of the Class of 2007.

JaMarcus Russell
Russell is possibly the most physically talented quarterback prospect since John Elway. He’s 6-foot-6, 260 pounds with an arm that makes Brett Favre look like Danny Wuerffel. Russell is also a good runner and his arm strength allows him to hit any open receiver while he is on the move. He has huge hands, which help him avoid fumbles, and remarkably quick feet for such large man. Physically, Russell compares favorably to Daunte Culpepper, Byron Leftwich, and Ben Roethlisberger, all of whom have had some degree of success in the NFL. Assuming he can get his weight under control, Russell figures to be more mobile than Leftwich and Roethlisberger, but not as good of a runner as pre-injury Culpepper.

However, hidden behind Russell’s immense physical talent are a couple of major red flags. For starters, as recently as last summer’s training camp, Russell was engaged in a fierce quarterback battle with Matt Flynn and Ryan Perriloux. There were rumors that Russell was gone to the NFL at the end of the season no matter how the year went, simply, because he was unsure that he’d be able to hold onto the starting job again. Russell emerged from the controversy to have a great season, but it was the first of his career in which he was statistically the best passer on his team. While this history doesn’t doom Russell (Tom Brady had similar issues), I would still be wary of spending the number one overall pick and the 25 million dollar signing bonus that comes with it on a guy who wasn’t even the clear-cut starter his final year in college. Less than six months ago, very few experts considered Russell a first-round pick. FO’s own Michael David Smith, for example, wrote “I don’t see Russell as a first-round pick at all” in the discussion thread for Seventh Day Adventure on September 17th. Late risers usually fail to live up to the hype.

An even bigger issue with Russell is that he is an atrocious decision maker. He consistently throws the ball into double and triple coverage. Like Favre he often gets away with it by making spectacular throws. Still, field vision is the single most important quality for a quarterback. You can get away with being average in this regard if you have superior arm strength and accuracy, but Russell still has a ways to go before he can be considered average at seeing the field.

Russell also has the tendency to simply throw the ball up for grabs when he gets confused. If you watched the Sugar Bowl you saw this happen on an early in the fourth quarter interception. Russell clearly blew his underneath reads, panicked, and just lofted the ball up. It went pretty much unnoticed because he played an otherwise stellar game, but it is a recurring problem. These passes didn’t always end up picks in college because Dwayne Bowe, Craig Davis and Early Doucet (all future first day picks) did a nice job of winning jump balls. That won’t fly at the next level.

Another concern is that Russell ran a fairly simple offense at LSU. The Tigers eschewed complexity partly to avoid confusing Russell, and partly because complexity was not necessary for an offense as talented as LSU’s. Russell can make very difficult throws when he knows where to go with the ball, so the LSU coaching staff didn’t have to get fancy. This will still be true to a degree in the NFL. In fact Drew Bledsoe did pretty well in his first few years in the league in a Patriots offense using similar principles. Unfortunately coaches often seem reluctant to play to their quarterback’s strengths (see Vick, Michael) and try to force unique players into the cookie-cutter mold. Russell will struggle with an NFL-style offense at first, but if he’s coached well (like Vince Young was last season) then this shouldn’t be a prohibitive factor in his development.

All of these issues are related. Because of Russell’s knack for making boneheaded plays at the worst possible times, he had Matt Flynn and Ryan Perrilloux breathing down his neck his whole college career. Any team that drafts him must be prepared to tolerate some very questionable decisions interspersed with Russell’s trademark spectacular throws. He is also known to get down on himself and get rattled when things are not going well. All in all he has a number of characteristics that you don’t like to see in a young quarterback.

Russell’s understanding of the game is questionable at best. He constantly infuriated LSU fans with his inability to manage situations properly. Pretty much everything that Russell is can be summed up by describing the final drive from this year’s LSU-Auburn game.



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LSU took over with 1:04 to go at their own 20-yard line trailing 7-3 with no timeouts remaining. On the first play from scrimmage Auburn sat back in a soft Cover-2 zone with the safeties deep. Russell didn’t notice this until it was too late and threw the ball out of bounds over the head of Craig Davis who was open running a vertical route down the sideline. The LSU coaching staff called Russell over and pointed out that he could pick the zone apart by throwing the ball to Davis in the Cover-2 hole at the sideline 20 yards downfield.

LSU then went out and ran the exact same play two more times. Russell hit Davis for gains of 20 and 21 yards. Davis was immediately drilled out of bounds both times. The Auburn safeties came flying downhill because they knew what was coming, but they couldn’t stop it. Russell simply got the ball there too fast.

All of a sudden LSU was driving. They had the ball on the Auburn 39-yard line with 50-odd seconds to go. Auburn, knowing they were in trouble, changed up their defense getting out of the soft Cover-2. Russell went back to pass, and seeing something different from what he was expecting, got confused. Luckily the protection was good and he was able to scan the field for four or five seconds. Still not seeing anything he liked, Russell began to roll to his right. He escaped the pressure and continued to move towards the sideline at a leisurely pace. Instead of throwing the ball away to stop the clock Russell decided to tuck it and duck upfield. He was tackled in-bounds at the line of scrimmage for no gain.

He got up without any sense of urgency and with a grin on his face. He seemed to be quite pleased with himself for avoiding a sack and maybe picking up a yard. After about a second he finally heard all the people screaming for him to spike the ball and began to hustle to the line. However by then it was too late. By the time LSU got set and spiked it there were only 25 seconds remaining. Russell had just wasted 20 crucial seconds. I have only rarely been angrier while watching a football game (not because I’m an LSU fan, I’m not, but because I like to see the game played intelligently).

Russell ended up bouncing back on the next play by hitting Dwayne Bowe for 20 yards putting LSU back in striking distance with under ten seconds remaining. However he followed that up with a stupid illegal formation penalty that pushed them back to the 24-yard line, and then hit Craig Davis for a 19-yard gain with no time left on the clock. Overall Russell’s numbers for the game looked pretty good (20/35, 267 yards, no TDs or picks), but when it counted he made certain LSU would come up short. That pretty much says all there is to say about Russell. He will tantalize you with impossible throws, but there is significant evidence that mentally he doesn’t have what it takes to be a great quarterback.

So, overall Russell has a pretty risky profile from a scouting perspective. He might be great, but he could be the next Jeff George (which, unless you’re Jason Whitlock, is not a good thing). That could be enough to keep teams from taking him first, but probably not. Here’s something that should: Russell started only 29 games at LSU. Over the past ten years, collegiate games started has been the single greatest predictor of NFL success for early first-round quarterbacks. Since 1997 seven quarterbacks who started fewer than 30 games in college have been drafted in the top ten: Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Michael Vick, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Alex Smith. Who’s the best player on that list? Michael Vick? Alex Smith? I don’t even know. All I know is that list does not leave me saying, “I gotta get me some of that.”

There is one positive indicator among Russell’s college stats: The player to whom he is most similar is Vince Young. Young started 32 games, Russell 29. Both completed 61.8 percent of their passes. Both lost starts because they platooned with an upper classman during their freshman year. Both are tall, strong, and obviously both are African-American. But the similarity only goes so far. Young started three more games than Russell. That doesn’t seem like a significant number, but it is. Young has also been only moderately successful as passer and will probably never be one of the best passers in the league. As long as he’s above-average, it’s not a problem, because he brings so much to the table with his running ability. Russell, on the other hand, will succeed or fail based on his ability to pass the ball. He’s decently mobile, but he is nowhere near Young’s caliber as a scrambler. Even if he lives up to the comparison and becomes a slightly worse passer than Vince Young, I doubt people will consider that a success.

All in all, I would be very wary investing $25 million guaranteed in a guy who barely won his starting job in college, doesn’t see the field well, is known to be immature, and has an unfavorable statistical profile. At least the Raiders will be able to admire the velocity and distance of Russell’s passes on their way to the arms of opposing defensive backs.
----------

Next Quinn

[El Minion]

Brady Quinn
Quinn is pretty much your stereotypical stud quarterback prospect. A four-year starter out of Notre Dame, he is used to having the national spotlight focused on him. At 6-foot-4, 225 pounds he is physically reminiscent of another Charlie Weis pupil named Brady. In fact, he is definitely more mobile, and probably has a better arm than Tom. The big difference between the two is the skill for which the Patriots’ Brady is best known: staying cool under pressure.

Quinn has been in the national spotlight for so long that people have started to feel the need to tear him down. If you look for faults long enough you will find them. This is a major part of the reason why games started in college is so predictive. Players with few starts have not given scouts time to find their faults.



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Quinn’s slide is reminiscent of another recent top quarterback prospect who chose to stick around for his senior year, Matt Leinart. People nitpicked Leinart to pieces his senior year which caused him to drop farther than he should have; teams that passed on him are starting to regret it.

The big knock on Quinn is that he buckles under pressure. Last season, against the top defenses that Notre Dame faced, those that really pressured the quarterback well, Quinn came up short. This was particularly evident in LSU’s manhandling of Notre Dame in the Sugar Bowl. Now, I think it makes sense that a quarterback might struggle when his offensive line is obviously overmatched, but still Quinn’s ineptitude was worrisome. This is an important area for improvement, but it is far from a crippling weakness. Peyton Manning faced similar criticisms coming out of Tennessee and he seems to have done fine.

Quinn has a lot of things going for him. In addition to his good size and mobility, Quinn has an excellent arm. He doesn’t throw the deep ball as well as Russell does, but he has great zip on his intermediate throws. Quinn has no problems hitting the deep outs, and loves to throw crossing patterns over the middle. He has had plenty of experience making these NFL-type throws after spending the last two years under Weis’ tutelage.

Most people consider Quinn’s time under Weis one of his greatest selling points. However, a few are somewhat concerned by the huge jump in Quinn’s numbers after Weis’ arrival. Was Quinn’s success just a product of the system? I would suspect not, especially given the continued success of Tom Brady. Weis works wonders with quarterbacks, no doubt about that, but it seems that whatever he does to them is permanent.

In my opinion, Quinn’s college stats match up pretty well with his scouting profile. He completed 58.0 percent of his passes in college and started 46 games. This projects Quinn as a good pro quarterback, but not a great one. Here is the complete list of players drafted in first two rounds over the past ten years who started at least 35 games and completed at least 57 percent of their passes: Peyton Manning, Donovan McNabb, Daunte Culpepper, Chad Pennington, Drew Brees, Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Eli Manning, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Jason Campbell, Matt Leinart and Jay Cutler.

Are there any bad players on that list? The worst according to my numbers is Eli Manning, and he’s been decent (maybe not up to expectations, but decent). I would be happy to spend a top ten pick on most of those players.

Brady Quinn’s closest comparables paint an even prettier picture. Carson Palmer, Donovan McNabb and Jay Cutler all started 45 games, and completed 59, 58 and 57 percent of their passes respectively. If Quinn’s pro career is as similar to those players as his college stats are, then he should be good enough to justify a high pick.

Charlie Weis recently said that Quinn is “a combination of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.” I’m a bit skeptical of that; it will be tough for Quinn to find time to both impregnate B-list actresses and teach the local kids how to boost an Escalade. All joking aside, Quinn is far from flawless as a prospect, but, in spite of his occasional shortcomings on the national stage, all evidence points to Quinn becoming a very good NFL quarterback.

Round Two
I’ve read in a couple of different places recently that the Raiders are thinking of passing on a quarterback in round one because they want to select Trent Edwards of Stanford in round two. I am unsure what to say about this decision. On the one hand, if they are really sure that Calvin Johnson is going to an outstanding player then they should take him. Drafting Russell so early would be a mistake, so avoiding that would have to be considered a positive.

On the other hand, Trent Edwards is not a good prospect either. He started 31 games at Stanford and completed 56.3 percent of his passes. He was never a particularly outstanding player, and he got hurt all four years. The projection system is not designed to handle injuries, and if he had stayed healthy Edwards would have played forty-some games, so perhaps he is better than the numbers say. Still, it’s hard for me to believe that a guy who couldn’t make it through a college season even once will be able to survive the NFL.

Teams looking for a QB in the second round should give Drew Stanton a long look. His play at Michigan State was uneven at best, but he has prototypical size, a strong arm and excellent mobility. Though he didn’t start many games in college (29), he did complete 64.2 percent of his passes. It’s tough to say too much about second-round QBs because there have not been many in recent years, but based on the limited data, completion percentage seems to gain greater importance in the second round. I wouldn’t spend a first-round pick on Stanton, especially given his erratic play at Michigan State, but he has all the tools to be a quality NFL starter and could be a good value in the second round.

John Beck of BYU is another guy that may sneak into the end of the second round. He posted an excellent completion percentage at BYU and was a four-year starter. He lacks lacks elite talent, but he makes good decisions with the ball. He has the makings of a good but not great, prospect, a la Matt Schaub.

Conclusions
Last year at this time I wrote that, “I was almost hoping that [the system] would indicate that one of the three top prospects was going to be a bust, just so I could say that I called it. But the system projects all three to be good pros.” Well, disappointed as I was with the lack of controversial predictions, I am glad that I stuck by the numbers. This year is different. The numbers are not quite black and white (Quinn’s completion percentage is a little low, Russell has a number of starts a little above complete bust territory), but they are pretty clear: Brady Quinn is a much better quarterback prospect than JaMarcus Russell.

I am hardly pleased to call out Russell as a likely bust, and given the right situation and good coaching I am sure he could defy the odds and become a good pro. However, players like Russell rarely do.

Here’s that under 30 starts list again: Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Michael Vick, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Alex Smith.

Sorry, Raiders fans.

For more about the method behind the College Quarterback Projection System, and projections for young quarterbacks already in the league, see David’s expanded article in Pro Football Prospectus 2007, available this summer.

posted 4-17-2007 at 10:55 AM by Guest Column || NFL Draft

[BroncoBuff]

Glory Hallelujah! Quinn is a Raider!!

This is beyond all joy! Anybody in Seattle now, meet me in Pioneer Square - I'm buying!



LET IT GO FORTH THIS DATE: At 2:39 pm pacific daylight time in the year of our Lord 2007 .... BroncoBuff dost thou foresee: In the 4 regular season Broncos-Raiders games over 2007 and 2008, CHAMP BAILEY and DRE BLY will together score as many or more touchdowns than will RANDY MOSS and JERRY PORTER.



Book it.

[Triplelefthook]

if it has been posted here as fact the only thing for certain is that it is not true

[Smiling Assassin27]

either way, quinn's going to a dog and will be beaten and battered all year long. he will not receive quality development in either cleveland or oakland. as for low balling him, i'm sure that's just what the class of 07 wants to hear. now every player chosen tomorrow will want to crush his skull on every play since he took money from their paychecks by settling for less dough. good luck, my irish brother, you're gonna need it.

[BroncoBuff]

He's an inaccurate passer with a GOOD offensive line ... against defenses he CAN read ... just imagine if you will Quinn constantly on the run, wildly hurling Blackledges into NFL coverages ....

I simply cannot wait!

Someone knock me out now and wake me up on Labor Day!

[bendog]

if it has been posted here as fact the only thing for certain is that it is not true

Mebbe so. But if it's true the Revs Al and Jesse will bust nuts.

[BroncoBuff]

Robert Gallery and Cooper Carlisle protecting his backside?! ROFL!

[Drek]

He's an inaccurate passer with a GOOD offensive line ... against defenses he CAN read ... just imagine if you will Quinn constantly on the run, wildly hurling Blackledges into NFL coverages ....

I simply cannot wait!

Someone knock me out now and wake me up on Labor Day!

1. He's not an inaccurate passer, he's the second most accurate passer coming out of college in the last five years (first being Lienart, who doesn't have nearly the arm). The only mistakes Quinn makes in terms of accuracy is overthrowing, which is more a product of trying to throw too hard. The end result is sailing deep balls, out of everyone's grasp, and short range passes hitting turf at their target's feet. His accuracy "issues" aren't going to create turnovers, unlike Russell's, Cutler's, Young's, etc..

2. His OL at Notre Dame sucked. Harris is the only one likely to get drafted, and he's a narrow, underweight OT who isn't going to cut it in the NFL if he doesn't land in a zone blocking system (which Notre Dame didn't run). He consistently got dominated by even above average DEs.

Quinn is the last guy we want the Raiders to get. Russell will need years to get up to speed, if he ever does. Johnson still needs someone to throw him the ball. Quinn has started in the west coast offense and Weiss' more vertical attack. Think about that, a collegiate QB who has learned the two major pro style offenses while excelling as a double major at one of America's finer academic institutions. He'll have no problems learning a new offense quickly enough to start day one.

If the Raiders take Quinn they won't immediately become a contender, but they'd steal a lot more wins than they would with Russell or Johnson.

[BroncoBuff]

Time will tell Drek .... but it doesn't matter, the story appears to be BS.

Rascal, please include links when stories are so big please. I Googled the words you posted and found nothing but speculation by the Post's Mark Maske ... I found nothing like the sentence you posted. Did you make it up?

[Ugly Duck]

Just saw Mel Kyper say that there is no truth to the rumor.

P.S. Oakland is going to copy the Bronco's ankle-diving cut-blocking scheme this season.... so maybe the line will play better...

[Master___Pain]

1. He's not an inaccurate passer, he's the second most accurate passer coming out of college in the last five years (first being Lienart, who doesn't have nearly the arm). The only mistakes Quinn makes in terms of accuracy is overthrowing, which is more a product of trying to throw too hard. The end result is sailing deep balls, out of everyone's grasp, and short range passes hitting turf at their target's feet. His accuracy "issues" aren't going to create turnovers, unlike Russell's, Cutler's, Young's, etc..

2. His OL at Notre Dame sucked. Harris is the only one likely to get drafted, and he's a narrow, underweight OT who isn't going to cut it in the NFL if he doesn't land in a zone blocking system (which Notre Dame didn't run). He consistently got dominated by even above average DEs.

Quinn is the last guy we want the Raiders to get. Russell will need years to get up to speed, if he ever does. Johnson still needs someone to throw him the ball. Quinn has started in the west coast offense and Weiss' more vertical attack. Think about that, a collegiate QB who has learned the two major pro style offenses while excelling as a double major at one of America's finer academic institutions. He'll have no problems learning a new offense quickly enough to start day one.

If the Raiders take Quinn they won't immediately become a contender, but they'd steal a lot more wins than they would with Russell or Johnson.

I was wondering when the first domer defender was going to show. Seems like many of these same things were said about Rick Meier as well or even David Carr. If there is no OL to protect him, as is the case in Oakland, he could be ruined. I think if Quinn were going to team that had more talent he could do well. Much like Rothlesberger did in Pitt.

[BroncoBuff]

Rascal posted: "NEW YORK, April 27 -- In a stunning last-minute twist, the Oakland Raiders agreed to a contract with Brady Quinn and announced they will use the top pick in tomorrows NFL draft on the Notre Damn quarterback instead of on LSU quarterback Jamarcus Russell."

Not funny. I bought 3 rounds for this entire bar, Rascal ... what do you have to say for yourself?

[Atlas]

I think Quinn is going to be a good QB. He played great last season. Oakland will ruin anyone, but this is the right move from the Raiders perspective if it's true
Great move for the Broncos. Quinn=Couch

[Hotrod]

Quinn.nextmontana

[BroncoBuff]

This thread is Exhibit "A" why the phrase "link-Nazi" should be purged from our vocabularies!

ALWAYS INCLUDE LINKS!

Wasn't there a rule last year about posting false things like this?

[jossjeff]

I'll believe it when I see it personally.

One more day folks then we will all know for sure.

[Hotrod]

This thread is Exhibit "A" why the phrase "link-Nazi" should be purged from our vocabularies!

ALWAYS INCLUDE LINKS!

Wasn't there a rule last year about posting false things like this?

Link please



Ha! sorry its friday ;D

[broncs2bowl]

Wow when I think about it...the AFC West all will have young high potential starters....Jay Cutler, Philip Rivers, Brady Quinn, Probs Brodie Croyle. Other than Croyle that is a VERY VERY talented group. Rly the AFC West is the model division in the league

[BroncoBuff]

Seems like many of these same (nice) things were said about Rick Meier as well or even David Carr. If there is no OL to protect him, as is the case in Oakland, he could be ruined.
... and Maddox and O'Brien and Shuler and Harrington and Boller and Blackledge and Grbac and Grossman and McGwire and Druckenmiller and Volek and Carr and George and Ware and Leaf and Marinovich and Nagle and Long and Stouffer and Klingler and Meier and Akili Smith and Quincy Carter and Giovanni Carmazzi .....

I was actually kinda worried (and am again now - thanks, Rascal) about JaMarcus Russell. A HUGE guy with truly phenomenal arm strength - completed 7% more passes that Brady Quinn this year, despite playing on a poor team.

[watermock]

Actually, LSU had more talent than ND in most minds. I believe it is more likely that Oakland moves to 3 and gets Braylon Edwards. One of the big 3, Russ, Calvin or Quinn will be there at three. Most likely Quinn who I hoped would fall to the HornHeads.

[-Slap-]

Quinn will have a better career than Russell.

[DenverBrit]

One thing's for sure with the Raiders O line:

Whichever QB ends up in Oakland will become an expert on cloud formations.

[Cito Pelon]

Quinn will be better than Russell. Therefore, I hope the raiders select Russell.

[ohiobronco2]

Quinn will be better than Russell. Therefore, I hope the raiders select Russell.

Agreed

[Kaylore]

Quinn will have a better career than Russell.

Unless its in a competition for worlds best man breasts.

[Dedhed]

For the Broncos it's the right choice. I was keeping my finger crossed that Oakland would take Quinn somehow. I hope this rumor is true.

Exactly, I am praying with everything that I am that the Raiders somehow take Quinn and set themselves up for another five years of utter agony.

[BroncoBuff]

It's stark how polarized OMers are between Russell and Quinn ... every opinion in this thread is an 'all-or-nothing' endorsement of one or the other.

Time will tell.

[Dedhed]

It's stark how polarized OMers are between Russell and Quinn ... every opinion in this thread is an 'all-or-nothing' endorsement of one or the other.

Time will tell.

I disagree. I think whichever one of them isn't selected by the Raiders will have the better career. I just think that Russell has the weapons to beat you on his own. Quinn could be a good system QB, but in the Raiders current system (which is crap) Quinn will make the Raiders the worse team.

[Drek]

... and Maddox and O'Brien and Shuler and Harrington and Boller and Blackledge and Grbac and Grossman and McGwire and Druckenmiller and Volek and Carr and George and Ware and Leaf and Marinovich and Nagle and Long and Stouffer and Klingler and Meier and Akili Smith and Quincy Carter and Giovanni Carmazzi .....

I was actually kinda worried (and am again now - thanks, Rascal) about JaMarcus Russell. A HUGE guy with truly phenomenal arm strength - completed 7% more passes that Brady Quinn this year, despite playing on a poor team.

Seriously, Buff, you're typically pretty informed but the more you go on about this the worse you look.

Russell played the last two years with Addai, Bowe, Andre Whitworth, Craig Davis, and Skylar Green. Quinn had Stovall, Samardzja, Fasano, Walker, and McKnight. See the discrepancy there? Gets even bigger when you look at defensive talent.

Call me a domer homer if you want, but I'm just relaying what I saw through honest viewing. Quinn was head and shoulders better than everyone else on his team last year. The year before that it was him and Samardzja (Jeff took a step back last year after spending all summer playing baseball, clearly wasn't football ready). The Irish have been grossly overrated because of Weiss and the ND hype the last few years. Despite that Quinn has kept their offense toe to toe with the nation's best in many games.

Match 'em up honestly, then judge.

Quinn has learned two pro style offenses in four years of college, having a solid sophomore year followed by two outstanding years. Russell has played in the same kiddie pool shallow offense his whole time in LSU with superior talent but didn't put up exceptional numbers until his junior year, and promptly jumped ship.

One guy has the arm and size. The other has football smarts and experience. So if you were drafting who do you want at QB, a guy with Vick's arm and Culpepper's size or a guy with Brady's smarts and Manning's decision making?

Yeah, I know who I'd chose. Russell's best comps have consistently disappointed at the NFL level. Brady's best comps are guys he's had regular discussions with and are the true elite of the league.

Some team is going to walk away from this draft with a QB that will anchor their franchise for the next decade. It won't be the team that takes Russell.

[-Slap-]

I think its possible Russell could be a great player, but he's not a guy I would want to draft in the top three and hand $30 million in guaranteed money. I could see him hitting three bills in no time.

[Kaylore]

It's stark how polarized OMers are between Russell and Quinn ... every opinion in this thread is an 'all-or-nothing' endorsement of one or the other.

Time will tell.

Here's what I think.

Jamarcus: An extremely talented fat guy. Has the excitement and personality of dry wall. Had some of the best receivers in college football. Played against elite competition and did decently. Ran an offense that had more shifts and motion than the one in Notre Dame, but was not known as a student of the game. More boom or bust potential. Could be the next Culpepper when he was good, but could totally bust because of a lack of work ethic.

Quinn: A young strong armed guy that struggled with accuracy and pocket awareness. His offense wasn't quite as NFL caliber as you'd think it would be with Charley Weiss in charge. Still a decently complex offense for the college level. He has the body of a Greek god. Didn't always play great competition and struggled after getting shut down early. Good work ethic. I think he could be like another Jim Everett. Lower ceiling but lower bust potential.

I would take all three QB's from last year ahead of either Quinn or Russell. Young is a better physical specimen and stayed in shape. Leinert won the big games and was more NFL ready and Cutler was the best player in the best division and showed some of the best attributes of both.

[Los Broncos]

I heard on espn radio today that the fade are taking CJ. I just dont see them passing on a qb

[TheDave]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/04/27/quinn.no.deal/index.html

DETROIT -- All those rumors about Brady Quinn being close to a deal with the Oakland Raiders, or having already agreed to one? Forget them. Totally false.

An NFL source with knowledge of the Raiders' discussions with Quinn's representatives this week said late Friday afternoon that the two sides aren't close, have never been close and will certainly will not consummate a deal before the start of Saturday's NFL Draft.

In fact, NFL observers at the draft in New York were preparing for the Raiders to select LSU quarterback JaMarcus Russell instead of Quinn with the first pick in the draft.

In addition, the Raiders spent part of Friday making telephone calls trying to find a veteran quarterback to acquire before Saturday's draft. The Raiders do not want to exit draft weekend with a rookie quarterback backed up only by 2005 third-round pick Andrew Walter, who is mostly a failure as a part-time Oakland starter last fall.

[Rohirrim]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/04/27/quinn.no.deal/index.html


In fact, NFL observers at the draft in New York were preparing for the Raiders to select LSU quarterback JaMarcus Russell instead of Quinn with the first pick in the draft.



And we all know how Greasy likes to play along with the NFL? Ha!

[watermock]

http://images.art.com/images/products/regular/11749000/11749614.jpg

"Wha? Im on the clock? Why didn't someone wake me up?"

"Oakland takes Kennie Stabler"

[Ugly Duck]

I heard on espn radio today that the fade are taking CJ. I just dont see them passing on a qb

They'll take CJ & try to force a trade..... if no trade - they keep CJ & will use the top pick in the 2nd round on a QB & also shop for a vet.

[jossjeff]

Take CJ and keep him.

Dump Moss for a 3rd or better if you can get it from Green Bay.

Draft Drew Stanton.

Calvin Johnson is the best player available.