Pft: Denver-houston Trade A Stepping Stone For Broncos?

[Slade]

FROM: profootballtalk.com
DENVER-HOUSTON TRADE A STEPPING STONE FOR BRONCOS?

A reader has helped us connect the dots regarding the reported trade talks between the Broncos and Texans, which would allow Denver to move from No. 21 to No. 10 in the 2007 draft.

Though the belief is that the Broncos are trying to get in position to draft linebacker Patrick Willis, defensive end Adam Carriker, or defensive tackle Amobi Okoye, it could be that the Broncos are planning to offer up the No. 10 overall pick to the Lions as an alternative to the offer that the Broncos reportedly have made in order to land receiver Calvin Johnson.

As we've explained, the Lions' primary concern regarding the Broncos' prior offer of a one, a two, and a three in 2007 and a one in 2008 is that Detroit would then be picking too low at No. 21 to get one of the guys they want.

But at No. 10 they might be able to get it done.

And it's believed that the Lions want linebacker Patrick Willis or defensive end Gaines Adams. So they come out of the draft with a player they covet, they pay the guy a lot less in the No. 10 slot, and they snare some extra picks.

The only problem is that, under the trade chart, the Broncos need to come up with 1,300 points through picks other than the No. 10 selection. Without a second-round pick (which would likely go to Houston as part of the move from No. 21 to No. 10), it might be hard for the Broncos to pull it off.

[Inkana7]

That makes no sense. By trading for the #10 we have even less firepower to get to #2.

[Beantown Bronco]

What a bunch of fools. I was able to discredit this one days ago.

First problem. They wouldn't have nearly enough ammo left to do the move from 10 to 2 unless they added next year's first rounder and multiple extra picks from next year's draft.

Second problem. The Broncos want their move up to #2 to be conditional upon their guy being there. There is no way they would be able to make two conditional trades with all these moving pieces prior to the clock running out on the Lions.....unless the Raiders were dumb enough to sign Jamarcus Russell in the next 24 hours and make it public before the draft. Considering the Raiders know that this would help the Broncos out, no way do they do this.

[Rohirrim]

If the Broncos pull a Ditka to get CJ, and mortgage future picks, I'll be really pissed. This team has some excellent receivers. They have ZERO pass rush. They just lost their pro bowl MLB. The Broncos have not lost games because they don't have receivers. They have lost games because they have no pass rush.

[Inkana7]

If the Broncos pull a Ditka to get CJ, and mortgage future picks, I'll be really pissed. This team has some excellent receivers. They have ZERO pass rush. They just lost their pro bowl MLB. The Broncos have not lost games because they don't have receivers. They have lost games because they have no pass rush.

I'd be pissed too, but averaging 42 points a game would be fun.

[Traveler]

So, let's recap:

It's been speculated that Denver has tried to trade up to the following top fifteen picks, #2 (Detroit), #4 (Tampa Bay), #6 (Washington), #10 (Houston), #11 (San Francisco) and #14 (Carolina).

Sheesh...please let Saturday hurry and get here!

[eddie mac]

The only difference is the drafting order. The new trade would involve the Lions moving to 10 but still acquiring a 1st rd pick next year.

[MechanicalBull]

If the supposed rumor with Detroit from weeks back was true and they shot it down how is this one a possibility. You are going to have to give up a lot just to get to 10 and then from 10 to 2 will cost a decent amount.

I would love CJ but I don't see Denver getting him or anyone at the number 2 spot at all. I can see a trade to 10 happening on Saturday but I think if Denver does trade it will be into the low teens.

[HEAV]

PFT getting help from a reader? WTF......... Hack site.

[footstepsfrom#27]

It's all Shanny twistin' with other team's mind's to disguise his real intent. I've come to the conclusion that if we know about it...it's because he wants us to.

[Man-Goblin]

I'm not a fan of trading first round picks and not getting one back (plus more). From what I hear CJ is pretty special, but I'm conflicted on giving up a king's ransom for any one player.

[Gcver2ver3]

PFT getting help from a reader? WTF......... Hack site.

It's just food for thought....nothing to get all worked up about....



I doubt it happens but it's still fun to read IMO

[Barry Ramey]

I also can't see how the Broncos, if even able to pull off getting to #10 could then get to #2 since it'll take at least 3 of their 4 day one picks just to get to #10. What would be left to trade that's better than what any other team could offer the Lions?

[broncswin]

I would love to have cj, but not at the risk of hurting our team. This would hurt our team imo. Honestly we don't need him that much, I like the idea of moving up to 10, but then going after landry if by any chance he is there, or willis. JUST SAY NO TO CJ!!!!!!!!!!!!

[telluride]

Shanny wants the new Jerry Rice. A potential ten-time pro bowl player. Given that we've had drafts that have netted us zilch, or close to zilch, I'd be fine with a draft that netted us such a player, and such a player only.

The team needs playmakers, not cogs. At present we have two confirmed playmakers (Javon, Champ), and two potential playmakers (Cutler, Henry). That's thin gruel.

[Kaylore]

Shanny wants the new Jerry Rice. A potential ten-time pro bowl player. Given that we've had drafts that have netted us zilch, or close to zilch, I'd be fine with a draft that netted us such a player, and such a player only.

The team needs playmakers, not cogs. At present we have two confirmed playmakers (Javon, Champ), and two potential playmakers (Cutler, Henry). That's thin gruel.

I think you're right. Shanahan was really pleased with his last move up to land Cutler, who was the number one guy on their draft board, and he feels the same way about CJ. If you can take the number one guy on your board, you do it. I will say that even if the Fade take CJ, I'd be thrilled with Joe Thomas at number two.

[Garcia Bronco]

People didn't know Jerry Rice would be Jerry Rice....Johnson may or may not be that guy.

[bronco militia]

shanny never show's his cards early...you guys should know better:

By Jim Corbett, USA TODAY

Secrecy, gamesmanship dominate NFL draft ploys


Here's a look at how clandestine things get before the NFL draft: Last year, Denver Broncos coach Mike Shanahan made a stealthy move, trading up to obtain the 11th pick from St. Louis to select Jay Cutler, his strong-armed vision of a young John Elway. But Shanahan never talked to Cutler or worked him out.
It's a lesson learned from selecting linebacker John Mobley, whom he knew then-Dallas Cowboys coach Jimmy Johnson coveted in 1996.

"I just believe, especially in a position like we were, you start to talk to people, people anticipate you trading up and then you lose that position," Shanahan says of the Cutler trade. "When we got John Mobley, Jimmy Johnson really wanted him. The reason he didn't move up was because he knew we never talked to Mobley as a coaching staff.

"It's like playing poker. You don't want to give your hand away."

NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock knew when Cutler would come off the board. He just never expected Shanahan jumping up for him.


"I picked Cutler to go in the 11th slot," Mayock says. "I was surprised when it was Denver that traded up. Afterward, I cross-checked with some contacts across the league, and they all said, 'We didn't know Shanahan had any interest.' I give Mike Shanahan a lot of credit for that one."

Philadelphia Eagles general manager Tom Heckert says pre-draft gamesmanship includes scheduling decoy player visits. Teams are allowed to invite 30 college players to their complex for follow-up interviews after meeting at the scouting combine and pro day workouts. Some are positional bluffs to throw teams off.

Former Cowboys personnel guru and NFL.com senior analyst Gil Brandt calls April "national liar's month" in the NFL.

"Everybody's allowed to bring in 30 guys; you can work them out and talk to them," Heckert says. "We ask ourselves, 'If we bring this guy in, should we probably bring in another guy that we're not interested in?' With the Internet, everybody knows who's visited you around the league. So you have to have some smoke screens."

"If I'm asked who the best five receivers are, I'll talk about five guys and maybe the fifth is the guy we're interested in."

Cardinals general manager Rod Graves says internal mock drafts are an important exercise to prepare for draft-day situations and assess other team's needs.

Says Mayock: "Part of manipulating the draft is understanding the other 31 teams and what they consider value. What you consider value as a 3-4 team is opposite what a 4-3 team does.

"But if a 3-4 nose tackle suddenly slides a little, you have to be aware what other teams might want him so you can trade down. That's why the best drafting teams are most cognizant of the entire league. They trust the value of their board."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/2007-04-26-gamesmanship_N.htm

[Popcorn Sutton]

I think Tampa is willing to part with their 1st and another pick. The Lydowns will have a lot better shot at getting "their player" and picking up and extra pick if they trade with Tampa. There is going to be a bidding war on draft day come the 2nd pick and I seriously don't see how we have enough ammo to compete with the other teams.

[Rohirrim]

Former Cowboys personnel guru and NFL.com senior analyst Gil Brandt calls April "national liar's month" in the NFL.

Ain't that the truth. ;D

[OrangeShadow]

you know all this calvin johnson talk makes me convinced that shanny isnt targeting cj

[Rohirrim]

you know all this calvin johnson talk makes me convinced that shanny isnt targeting cj

I'm convinced he's just messing with Greasy Al. We should do a process of elimination and discover the name of the player that absolutely nobody has mentioned out of Dove Valley. I haven't heard anything about Meachem.

[ND Bronco Fan]

you know all this calvin johnson talk makes me convinced that shanny isnt targeting cj

i agree totally, one thing i have learned is if you try to figure out what denver is going to do in the draft wherever you think they are going go with their pick(s) do a 180 and exactly opposite of what they lead you to believe is what they are going to do--that said my gut is telling me laron landry

[c_lazy_r]

i agree totally, one thing i have learned is if you try to figure out what denver is going to do in the draft wherever you think they are going go with their pick(s) do a 180 and exactly opposite of what they lead you to believe is what they are going to do--that said my gut is telling me laron landry

I hope your gut is telling the truth.

[bloodsunday]

That makes no sense. By trading for the #10 we have even less firepower to get to #2.

Well we'd have to give up LESS to get the #2 if we have the #10. The problem is we give up alot to get the #10 before we give it away.

So we'd give up three picks (1,2,4) in this year's draft to get to #10.

Then we'd give up that pick plus next year's #1 to get to #2?

For those of you counting at home that's 4 picks, including two #1s, to get who, Calvin Johnson? Not to mention a $20M in guarantees deal. It seems plausible, but if Denver somehow actually manages that deal... He better the next coming of Jerry Freakn' Rice.

[Hulamau]

I think you're right. Shanahan was really pleased with his last move up to land Cutler, who was the number one guy on their draft board, and he feels the same way about CJ. If you can take the number one guy on your board, you do it. I will say that even if the Fade take CJ, I'd be thrilled with Joe Thomas at number two.

We do have a several big D needs LB, DE/DT, safety.... but landing CJ would be an incredible match with Cutler for years to come with Walker on the other side, assuming Javon doesn't have a hissy fit at going back to #2 within a year. Probably not though with the new pass happy O there will be plenty of balls for both of them.

Still a very long shot though and I would be happy as a clam with Willis too at #10 or 11

[epicSocialism4tw]

i agree totally, one thing i have learned is if you try to figure out what denver is going to do in the draft wherever you think they are going go with their pick(s) do a 180 and exactly opposite of what they lead you to believe is what they are going to do--that said my gut is telling me laron landry

I dont think that that is too far fetched. That just may be the truth.

[Hulamau]

With Cutler throwing the ball who could cover CJ, Walker and Marshall with Schef or Graham at TE ??? .........Pinball

[epicSocialism4tw]

I am a firm believer that the entire trade with Detroit is a smoke screen. Shanahan is the best in the NFL at using diversions. It just doesnt seem to make any sense that Denver would ignore so many obvious needs to go after a player at one of the stronger positions on the team, that the team addressed by bringing in one of the top WR's in the league during last season's draft. Walker is the guy here, and Marshall showed some big time talent when he got minutes last season. Rod Smith is still here, and the team got Brandon Stokely in the offseason. I just do not see them spending their entire first day and the first pick in next season's draft on a WR.

[telluride]

If we land CJ, Travis Henry becomes an 1800 yard back. Instantly.

[epicSocialism4tw]

If we land CJ, Travis Henry becomes an 1800 yard back. Instantly.

If CJ is a pro bowl tackle and guard at the same time, I think that you might be on to something.

[Dukes]

If we land CJ, Travis Henry becomes an 1800 yard back. Instantly.

For once I actually agree with you.


I just threw up a little in my mouth

[NFLBRONCO]

WTF no rumors today about us

[Drek]

I am a firm believer that the entire trade with Detroit is a smoke screen. Shanahan is the best in the NFL at using diversions. It just doesnt seem to make any sense that Denver would ignore so many obvious needs to go after a player at one of the stronger positions on the team, that the team addressed by bringing in one of the top WR's in the league during last season's draft. Walker is the guy here, and Marshall showed some big time talent when he got minutes last season. Rod Smith is still here, and the team got Brandon Stokely in the offseason. I just do not see them spending their entire first day and the first pick in next season's draft on a WR.

Marshall: Played in a handful of games, far from proven at all.

Smith: aging, just had hip surgery, took a big step back last year.

Stokley: hasn't been healthy in a dog's age.

I can see what Shanahan is thinking here. Its not like Javon is a spring chicken either. If we can move up and get Calvin Johnson we're able to run one of the most explosive three wide sets the league has ever seen, regardless of who lines up as the #3, Smith or Marshall. Then several years down the road Walker will be getting long in the tooth, Calvin Johnson takes over as the new number one and Marshall or some new young guy steps in to take over at #2.

I've said it before, if we can get Calvin Johnson we can run a dominant passing offense for Cutler's entire tenure here. We have defensive issues to address for sure, but if we can lock up a dynamic tandem like that for a decade we should do it, regardless of perceived needs.

[NFLBRONCO]

Marshall: Played in a handful of games, far from proven at all.

Smith: aging, just had hip surgery, took a big step back last year.

Stokley: hasn't been healthy in a dog's age.

I can see what Shanahan is thinking here. Its not like Javon is a spring chicken either. If we can move up and get Calvin Johnson we're able to run one of the most explosive three wide sets the league has ever seen, regardless of who lines up as the #3, Smith or Marshall. Then several years down the road Walker will be getting long in the tooth, Calvin Johnson takes over as the new number one and Marshall or some new young guy steps in to take over at #2.

I've said it before, if we can get Calvin Johnson we can run a dominant passing offense for Cutler's entire tenure here. We have defensive issues to address for sure, but if we can lock up a dynamic tandem like that for a decade we should do it, regardless of perceived needs.

No doubt but, if this dream can happen we better be at 10 by friday.

[Beantown Bronco]

No doubt but, if this dream can happen we better be at 10 by friday.

Not gonna happen. They won't even make the move to 10 until they KNOW who the Raiders are selecting #1.

[Dagmar]

I can't wait till this is all over. Remember if your aunt had nads she's be your uncle.

[watermock]

Florino at PFT is such a homer Bronco fan I'm sure Shanahan is confiding in him. For disinformation.

Cutler can stick a turtle in the mouth. Or well, where his head used to be. I read PFT once a day, but he has an absolute hatred for the Broncos and especially the Teflon King.

I've allready seen Cutler rope balls between tight double coverage...he's Favre fearless. He has to overcome that bravado, but he has it. I think it comes with playing with total crap at Vandy. Not a single other vandy player was invited to the combine. And it's in the SEC.

Remember the bullet that Elway threw to Jackson to finish " The Drive?", The youtube highlight film toward the end, Cutler throws a ball so freakin' hard that you really don't even see it in the air.

Mark Jackson might be the most underrated Bronco of all time. He had a resteraunt bar on the corner of Littleton and Santa Fe with a trophy case. You wouldn't believe how many game balls he had, and this is in the age of Elway.

I would be thrilled to just get to 14. Alot cheaper, and a good chance a Willis or Anderson or such will be there. If something especially tasty is close, we could pull another small jump like with Cutler.

We need alot of defensive help, especially with the losses of DWill and Wilson. Bly took care of one, we need a MLB or SAM, and another DT.

Shanahan's offense can get by with his cogs at WR. Rod, Javon, Brandon, and the TE's Scheff and Graham are quite capable IMO.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Marshall: Played in a handful of games, far from proven at all.
Smith: aging, just had hip surgery, took a big step back last year.
Stokley: hasn't been healthy in a dog's age.
I can see what Shanahan is thinking here. Its not like Javon is a spring chicken either. If we can move up and get Calvin Johnson we're able to run one of the most explosive three wide sets the league has ever seen, regardless of who lines up as the #3, Smith or Marshall. Then several years down the road Walker will be getting long in the tooth, Calvin Johnson takes over as the new number one and Marshall or some new young guy steps in to take over at #2.
I've said it before, if we can get Calvin Johnson we can run a dominant passing offense for Cutler's entire tenure here. We have defensive issues to address for sure, but if we can lock up a dynamic tandem like that for a decade we should do it, regardless of perceived needs.

Sure adding another potentially good WR would be a great help, but at what cost? The entire first day and next year's #1 asset seem like a price that only a fool would pay, and Shanny aint no fool.

Remember, the last WR taken #2 overall was Charles Rogers.

Johnson could be good, he could be great, or he could bust completely. This team has too many needs to spin the wheel on a player that they do not have a need for when they have so many other needs that they could successfully address without mortgaging the farm for.

[watermock]

Johnson won't bust, he's just too expensive IMO. You only spend that much capital for a QB. That's done IMO.

[long beach bronco]

The draft is real exciting and stuff but once you really break it down, how many draft picks really make it big time? If you look at our draft board from 2001 to now, you'd be real suprised to see how many players that are out of football now or backups on other teams. If we could land a true superstar and playmaker in this draft, i say do it. If Shanny thinks CJ is that guy, then do it, no matter the cost. It's only draft picks. To me, you build a better "win now" team through free agency, then the draft. So far in free agency this year we've done great, now if we could add a real playmaker like CJ, this offseason will be true success.