Apple iPhone

[MileHighMagic]

http://www.apple.com/iphone/

http://images.apple.com/iphone/images/indexhero20070109.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/140/351955147_abc81a5ccf.jpg?v=0

http://reviews.cnet.com/Apple_iPhone/4505-6452_7-32180293.html?tag=prod.txt.1

The iPhone is a multimedia and internet-enabled mobile phone announced by Apple CEO Steve Jobs during the keynote address at the Macworld Conference & Expo on 9 January 2007.

The iPhone's functions include those of a camera phone, a multimedia player, mobile phone, and Internet services like e-mail, text messaging, web browsing and wireless connectivity. iPhone input is accomplished via touchscreen with virtual keyboard and buttons. The iPhone is a quad-band GSM phone, though Jobs mentioned in his keynote that Apple has a "plan to make 3G phones" in the future. Apple has filed more than 200 patents related to the technology behind the iPhone.

The iPhone is scheduled to be released in the United States in June 2007. It will be available from the Apple Store and from Cingular Wireless, with a price of US$499 for the 4 GB model and US$599 for the 8 GB model, based on a two-year service contract. Apple has also announced plans to make the iPhone available in Europe and Japan at a later date.

[Garcia Bronco]

Complete over-priced POS

[OrangeShadow]

500 dollars for a phone? hmm i think ill use that for 2 and a half car payments

[Garcia Bronco]

All it will be is a portal to spend more money on half assed packaged content with corporate sponsership

[listopencil]

WTF? That phone doesn't do anything that my Sanyo 8400 won't do. It has a touchscreen. Big deal. $500? What a rip off. Apple sucks.

[FloridaResident]

*hugs my blackberry 8800*

[Dr. Broncenstein]

I like my small SLVR phone... my separate pocketPC... my individual MP3 players. I don't understand the need to combine all functions. Looks like an expensive, heavy, uneccesary piece of crap.

[Play2win]

I am getting one **AS SOON** as they are available. Switching from my long term carrier T-MOBILE, too... this thing is going to be soooo hot... wide-screen video...

and it isn't just a touch screen, its Multi-Touch...

[sixtimeseight]

Once again, Apple is taking established technology, repacking it, putting a gay "i" in front of the name and marking it up by %300. When will people catch on to their ruse?

[MileHighMagic]

I guees i'm a sucker because I am getting this bad mutha fka. I am like a broad with shoes when it comes to new cell phones. It's an expensive, bad habit.

[Garcia Bronco]

Once again, Apple is taking established technology, repacking it, putting a gay "i" in front of the name and marking it up by %300. When will people catch on to their ruse?

exactly

[BroncoBuff]

Apple products are incredibly cutting edge and innovative, but I think they're over-priced and they've been outpaced by other manufacturers - at least in this instance: The 30GB video iPod is $259 new, but the Creative Zen widescreen is just $239, and the Zen has a 4.3" screen - over twice the total screen area of the 2.5" iPod, and the resolution is much higher too:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8d/ZenVisionW.jpg



Very Weird Story - So just very recently my girlfriend buys one on eBay, factory sealed for just $210 total incl. shipping from a college student in Virginia who got it as a gift and didn't want it. That was the week before the massacre (TJ and Alec can attest), and when the whole thing happened she immediately recognized Virginia Tech as the girl's college. Catherine e-mailed her again, but we haven't heard back.

Then, after she recieved it, I suggested going on c-net to read more about it. Well, the video review on c-net describing it was done by James Kim - the guy who got lost with his family in the snow in Oregon and died:

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7791/zenis9.jpg
http://reviews.cnet.com/Creative_Zen_Vision_W_30GB/4505-6499_7-32058044.html?tag=prod.txt.1

[Play2win]

Who Else has MULTI TOUCH out there?!? in an actual product you can buy...

[Garcia Bronco]

I guees i'm a sucker because I am getting this bad mutha fka. I am like a broad with shoes when it comes to new cell phones. It's an expensive, bad habit.


lol....so really it's an iEnabler.

[enjolras]

There are a lot of phones with a bit of the functionality, but no one has brought it together in one package like the iPhone has (I did see a couple of phones at 3GSM, like the one from Samsung, that come close)...

They've done some really interesting things with accelerometers and very cool UI touches. I think it's going to be a great phone. I'm not sure it will justify it's really high price tag... but for pure usability it's definitely a great phone.

[Orange_Beard]

I can't wait to try one of these. I don't really see how people can say these are crap when they are not even out yet. Seems pretty stupid to me.
I have had the windows equals to this and they really sucked. I dropped $515 bucks on an HP Ipaq 6315. Talk about a total piece of crap.
I am on the blackberry right now, Love the email. Cell phone works good. The 55 bucks a month kills me.
I will give this a shot.

[watermock]

Whats a cell phone? I just put a pack on Beezer and have him hand deliver messages.

Well, paw deliiver. Well, actually he opens the courier pouch with his back paws and teeth.

[enjolras]

I can't wait to try one of these. I don't really see how people can say these are crap when they are not even out yet. Seems pretty stupid to me.
I have had the windows equals to this and they really sucked. I dropped $515 bucks on an HP Ipaq 6315. Talk about a total piece of crap.
I am on the blackberry right now, Love the email. Cell phone works good. The 55 bucks a month kills me.
I will give this a shot.

The new windows mobile 6 stuff is really good. I'm a bit biased on this (I do run a cell phone software company), but the general lack of 3rd party software for the iPhone is going to hurt it quite a bit. I've been playing with the new Windows Mobile 6 stuff, and it's quite good. Symbian is really moving forward (the Nokia N95 is way cool).

If anything is going to stop the iPhone it's going to be lack of integrated GPS and lack of good 3rd party software.

[Garcia Bronco]

The new windows mobile 6 stuff is really good. I'm a bit biased on this (I do run a cell phone software company), but the general lack of 3rd party software for the iPhone is going to hurt it quite a bit. I've been playing with the new Windows Mobile 6 stuff, and it's quite good. Symbian is really moving forward (the Nokia N95 is way cool).

If anything is going to stop the iPhone it's going to be lack of integrated GPS and lack of good 3rd party software.

Don't forget system memory...that's why the 700w is POS.

[penguintheory]

Complete over-priced POS

hahahhahahahahhaha

[MileHighMagic]

Who's getting one on Friday? I want one bad but i've decided to wait for the price to drop and for it to go to T-Mobile.


http://solution.allthingsd.com/

The iPhone is Breakthrough Handheld ComputerJune 26, 2007
by Walter S. Mossberg and Katherine Boehret
Sphere Share Print

One of the most important trends in personal technology over the past few years has been the evolution of the humble cellphone into a true handheld computer, a device able to replicate many of the key functions of a laptop. But most of these “smart phones” have had lousy software, confusing user interfaces and clumsy music, video and photo playback. And their designers have struggled to balance screen size, keyboard usability and battery life.




Now, Apple Inc., whose digital products are hailed for their design and innovation, is jumping into this smart phone market with the iPhone, which goes on sale in a few days after months of the most frenzied hype and speculation we have ever seen for a single technology product. Even though the phone’s minimum price is a hefty $499, people are already lining up outside Apple stores to be among the first to snag one when they go on sale Friday evening.

We have been testing the iPhone for two weeks, in multiple usage scenarios, in cities across the country. Our verdict is that, despite some flaws and feature omissions, the iPhone is, on balance, a beautiful and breakthrough handheld computer. Its software, especially, sets a new bar for the smart-phone industry, and its clever finger-touch interface, which dispenses with a stylus and most buttons, works well, though it sometimes adds steps to common functions.

The Apple phone combines intelligent voice calling, and a full-blown iPod, with a beautiful new interface for music and video playback. It offers the best Web browser we have seen on a smart phone, and robust email software. And it synchronizes easily and well with both Windows and Macintosh computers using Apple’s iTunes software.

It has the largest and highest-resolution screen of any smart phone we’ve seen, and the most internal memory by far. Yet it is one of the thinnest smart phones available and offers impressive battery life, better than its key competitors claim.

It feels solid and comfortable in the hand and the way it displays photos, videos and Web pages on its gorgeous screen makes other smart phones look primitive.

The iPhone’s most controversial feature, the omission of a physical keyboard in favor of a virtual keyboard on the screen, turned out in our tests to be a nonissue, despite our deep initial skepticism. After five days of use, Walt — who did most of the testing for this review — was able to type on it as quickly and accurately as he could on the Palm Treo he has used for years. This was partly because of smart software that corrects typing errors on the fly.

But the iPhone has a major drawback: the cellphone network it uses. It only works with AT&T (formerly Cingular), won’t come in models that use Verizon or Sprint and can’t use the digital cards (called SIM cards) that would allow it to run on T-Mobile’s network. So, the phone can be a poor choice unless you are in areas where AT&T’s coverage is good. It does work overseas, but only via an AT&T roaming plan.

In addition, even when you have great AT&T coverage, the iPhone can’t run on AT&T’s fastest cellular data network. Instead, it uses a pokey network called EDGE, which is far slower than the fastest networks from Verizon or Sprint that power many other smart phones. And the initial iPhone model cannot be upgraded to use the faster networks.

The iPhone compensates by being one of the few smart phones that can also use Wi-Fi wireless networks. When you have access to Wi-Fi, the iPhone flies on the Web. Not only that, but the iPhone automatically switches from EDGE to known Wi-Fi networks when it finds them, and pops up a list of new Wi-Fi networks it encounters as you move. Walt was able to log onto paid Wi-Fi networks at Starbucks and airports, and even used a free Wi-Fi network at Fenway Park in Boston to email pictures taken during a Red Sox game.

But this Wi-Fi capability doesn’t fully make up for the lack of a fast cellular data capability, because it is impractical to keep joining and dropping short-range Wi-Fi networks while taking a long walk, or riding in a cab through a city.

AT&T is offering special monthly calling plans for the iPhone, all of which include unlimited Internet and email usage. They range from $60 to $220, depending on the number of voice minutes included. In an unusual twist, iPhone buyers won’t choose their plans and activate their phones in the store. Instead, they will do so when they first connect the iPhone to the iTunes software.

Despite its simple interface, with just four rows of colorful icons on a black background, the iPhone has too many features and functions to detail completely in this space. But here’s a rundown of the key features, with pros and cons based on our testing.

Hardware: The iPhone is simply beautiful. It is thinner than the skinny Samsung BlackJack, yet almost its entire surface is covered by a huge, vivid 3.5-inch display. There’s no physical keyboard, just a single button that takes you to the home screen. The phone is about as long as the Treo 700, the BlackBerry 8800 or the BlackJack, but it’s slightly wider than the BlackJack or Treo, and heavier than the BlackBerry and BlackJack.

The display is made of a sturdy glass, not plastic, and while it did pick up smudges, it didn’t acquire a single scratch, even though it was tossed into Walt’s pocket or briefcase, or Katie’s purse, without any protective case or holster. No scratches appeared on the rest of the body either.

There are only three buttons along the edges. On the top, there’s one that puts the phone to sleep and wakes it up. And, on the left edge, there’s a volume control and a mute switch.

One downside: Some accessories for iPods may not work properly on the iPhone. The headphone jack, which supports both stereo music and phone calls, is deeply recessed, so you may need an adapter for existing headphones. And, while the iPhone uses the standard iPod port on the bottom edge, it doesn’t recognize all car adapters for playing music, only for charging. Apple is considering a software update to fix this.

Touch-screen interface: To go through long lists of emails, contacts, or songs, you just “flick” with your finger. To select items, you tap. To enlarge photos, you “pinch” them by placing two fingers on their corners and dragging them in or out. To zoom in on portions of Web pages, you double-tap with your fingers. You cannot use a stylus for any of this. In the Web browser and photo program, if you turn the phone from a vertical to a horizontal position, the image on the screen turns as well and resizes itself to fit.

In general, we found this interface, called “multi-touch,” to be effective, practical and fun. But there’s no overall search on the iPhone (except Web searching), and no quick way to move to the top or bottom of pages (except in the Web browser). The only aid is an alphabetical scale on the right in tiny type.

There’s also no way to cut, copy, or paste text.

And the lack of dedicated hardware buttons for functions like phone, email and contacts means extra taps are needed to start using features. Also, if you are playing music while doing something else, the lack of hardware playback buttons forces you to return to the iPod program to stop the music or change a song.

Keyboard: The virtual keys are large and get larger as you touch them. Software tries to guess what you’re typing, and fix errors. Overall, it works. But the error-correction system didn’t seem as clever as the one on the BlackBerry, and you have to switch to a different keyboard view to insert a period or comma, which is annoying.

Web browsing: The iPhone is the first smart phone we’ve tested with a real, computer-grade Web browser, a version of Apple’s Safari. It displays entire Web pages, in their real layouts, and allows you to zoom in quickly by either tapping or pinching with your finger. Multiple pages can be open at the same time, and you can conduct Google or Yahoo searches from a built-in search box.

Email: The iPhone can connect with most popular consumer email services, including Yahoo, Gmail, AOL, EarthLink and others. It can also handle corporate email using Microsoft’s Exchange system, if your IT department cooperates by enabling a setting on the server.

BlackBerry email services can’t be used on an iPhone, but Yahoo Mail supplies free BlackBerry-style “push” email to iPhone users. In our test, this worked fine.

Unlike most phone email software, the iPhone’s shows a preview of each message, so you don’t have to open it. And, if there is a photo attached, it shows the photo automatically, without requiring you to click on a link to see it. It can also receive and open Microsoft Word and Excel documents and Adobe PDF files. But it doesn’t allow you to edit or save these files.

Memory: The $499 base model comes with four gigabytes of memory, and the $599 model has eight gigabytes. That’s far more than on any other smart phone, but much less than on full-size iPods. Also, there’s no slot for memory-expansion cards. Our test $599 model held 1,325 songs; a dozen videos (including a full-length movie); over 100 photos; and over 100 emails, including some attachments, and still had room left over.

Battery life: Like the iPod, but unlike most cellphones, the iPhone lacks a removable battery. So you can’t carry a spare. But its battery life is excellent. In our tests, it got seven hours and 18 minutes of continuous talk time, while the Wi-Fi was on and email was constantly being fetched in the background. That’s close to Apple’s claim of a maximum of eight hours, and far exceeds the talk time claims of other smart phones, which usually top out at five and a half hours.

For continuous music playback, again with Wi-Fi on and email being fetched, we got over 22 hours, shy of Apple’s claim of up to 24 hours, but still huge. For video playback, under the same conditions, we got just under Apple’s claim of seven hours, enough to watch four average movies. And, for Web browsing and other Internet functions, including sending and receiving emails, viewing Google maps and YouTube videos, we got over nine hours, well above Apple’s claim of up to six hours.

In real life, of course, you will do a mix of these things, so the best gauge might be that, in our two-week test, the iPhone generally lasted all day with a typical mix of tasks.

Phone calls: The phone interface is clean and simple, but takes more taps to reach than on many other smart phones, because there are no dedicated hardware phone buttons. You also cannot just start typing a name or number, but must scroll through a list of favorites, through your recent call list, or your entire contact list. You can also use a virtual keypad.

One great phone feature is called “visual voice mail.” It shows you the names or at least the phone numbers of people who have left you voicemail, so you can quickly listen to those you want. It’s also very easy to turn the speakerphone on and off, or to establish conference calls.

Voice call quality was good, but not great. In some places, especially in weak coverage areas, there was some muffling or garbling. But most calls were perfectly audible. The iPhone can use Bluetooth wireless headsets and it comes with wired iPod-style earbuds that include a microphone.

A downside—there’s no easy way to transfer phone numbers, via AT&T, directly from an existing phone. The iPhone is meant to sync with an address book (and calendar) on a PC.

Contacts and calendars: These are pretty straightforward and work well. The calendar lacks a week view, though a list view helps fill that gap. Contacts can be gathered into groups, but the groups can’t be used as email distribution lists.


Syncing: The iPhone syncs with both Macs and Windows PCs using iTunes, which handles not only the transfer of music and video, but also photos, contacts, calendar items and browser bookmarks. In our tests, this worked well, even on a Windows Vista machine using the latest version of Outlook as the source for contacts and appointments.

iPod: The built-in iPod handles music and video perfectly, and has all the features of a regular iPod. But the interface is entirely new. The famed scroll wheel is gone, and instead finger taps and flicking move you through your collection and virtual controls appear on the screen. There’s also a version of the “cover flow” interface which allows you to select music by flipping through album covers.

Other features: There are widgets, or small programs, for accessing weather, stock prices and Google Maps, which includes route directions, but no real-time navigation. Another widget allows you to stream videos from YouTube, and yet another serves as a notepad. There’s a photo program which displays individual pictures or slideshows.

The only add-on software Apple is allowing will be Web-based programs that must be accessed through the on-board Web browser. The company says these can be made to look just like built-in programs, but the few we tried weren’t impressive.

Missing features: The iPhone is missing some features common on some competitors. There’s no instant messaging, only standard text messaging. While its two megapixel camera took excellent pictures in our tests, it can’t record video. Its otherwise excellent Web browser can’t fully utilize some Web sites, because it doesn’t yet support Adobe’s Flash technology. Although the phone contains a complete iPod, you can’t use your songs as ringtones. There aren’t any games, nor is there any way to directly access Apple’s iTunes Music Store.

Apple says it plans to add features to the phone over time, via free downloads, and hints that some of these holes may be filled.

Expectations for the iPhone have been so high that it can’t possibly meet them all. It isn’t for the average person who just wants a cheap, small phone for calling and texting. But, despite its network limitations, the iPhone is a whole new experience and a pleasure to use.

[Garcia Bronco]

Good luck

[OrangeShadow]

well if i didnt have a 250 dollar early termination fee from verizon id buy this thing

[RkyMtnThunder]

Nothing can live up to the amount of hype the iPhone has gotten.

IMO - the price and the fact you have no carrier choice outside AT&T is going to hurt its sales.

I have read that even a minor disappointment in sales may send Apple's stock sliding. If that happens, and it slips far enough, I might buy some while its lower than normal.

Otherwise seriously doubt I will shell out $600, cancel my contract with Verizon and sign up with AT&T....

.....just so I can say: "Look at me! I got me an iPhone!!"


And if this thread is any indication of public perception; iPhone looks to be in trouble as only 2-3 posts out of 20+ have expressed interest

[elsid13]

I would just like a cool cell phone that doesn't have freaking camera built in. POS teenagers

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I guees i'm a sucker because I am getting this bad mutha fka. I am like a broad with shoes when it comes to new cell phones. It's an expensive, bad habit.


me too...well not the shoes analogy...i think it looks awesome

[ak1971]

bunch of good prop bets on iphone.

http://www.bodog.com/sports-betting/business-financial-props.jsp

[Popps]

Once again, Apple is taking established technology, repacking it, putting a gay "i" in front of the name and marking it up by %300. When will people catch on to their ruse?

First off, they didn't claim to invent the MP3 player. They just made it appealing to the masses. Like that or not, those are the facts. They did it the best, just like they are outpacing anyone on the planet at selling music in a digital format.

In fact, Apple just passed Amazon.com and is now the third largest retailer of music in the world.

So, once again, they didn't invent (nor claim) to invent digital music delivery. They just perfected it and made it appealing to the public.

The majority of people with actual experience with both computer platforms will tell you that they put out a better overall computer product than other manufacturers, as well. (I don't mean people that tried a Mac at the Apple store in the mall for 10 minutes, I'm talking about professionals that work in a multi-platform environment.)

So, don't get mad at a company for correctly diagnosing what consumers want and supplying them with it. That's just proper business strategy, and their products regularly rate out near the top of their respective categories when compared with their peers.



That said, I won't be getting an iPhone. Too many cons (price, switching services, etc.) ... though I do suspect that the device will surpass most others with regards to functionality, ease of use, etc.

I'm a Treo user. (Palm based) It's a pretty smart OS. The phone is functional enough. Not much fun, but gets the job done as far as email, media, etc. Far better than the Windows Mobile-based MDA I had for a while. Good lord, you talk about a POS. It took 12 steps to get the thing to snap a picture. My kid would be in the other room by the time I could get the friggin' camera to load up. Why anyone would subject themselves to that OS is beyond me. You'd literally have to just enjoy unnecessary steps.

[Garcia Bronco]

"The majority of people with actual experience with both computer platforms will tell you that they put out a better overall computer product than other manufacturers, as well. (I don't mean people that tried a Mac at the Apple store in the mall for 10 minutes, I'm talking about professionals that work in a multi-platform environment.) "

This one doesn't..and 95 percent don't either.

[Popps]

"The majority of people with actual experience with both computer platforms will tell you that they put out a better overall computer product than other manufacturers, as well. (I don't mean people that tried a Mac at the Apple store in the mall for 10 minutes, I'm talking about professionals that work in a multi-platform environment.) "

This one doesn't..and 95 percent don't either.

Right, which would leave you unqualified to comment either way.

Not that that ever stops you.

[Garcia Bronco]

Right, which would leave you unqualified to comment either way.

Not that that ever stops you.

A) I am very qualified.
B) Don't get mad because I called you on your comment that was untrue
C) the majority of all computer consumers agree that MACs are lacking.

[DenverBrit]

A recent article that puts the iPhone in perspective when considering Apple suppliers as a stock play.


Wall Street bets its chips on fantasy

The hype over Apple's iPhone is one more example of the type of laughable investment 'thesis' that is all too common today. Unfortunately, the stock market isn't immune from reality.

By Bill Fleckenstein

Let's begin with a perfect example of what passes for knowledge and information on Wall Street: A dead fish from Morgan Stanley (MS, news, msgs) recently penned a "research" report that's right up there with specimens from the dot-com days, when folks were talking about valuing eyeballs.

Despite his acknowledgment -- "It's difficult to quantify the exact (semiconductor) equipment exposure, given the complexity of the wafer allocation and technological mix at the foundries where most of the iPhone chips are being manufactured" -- he proceeded to recommend a handful of equipment stocks as "plays" on Apple's (AAPL, news, msgs) new iPhone.

Specifically, he said, "Applied Materials (AMAT, news, msgs), ASML Holding (ASML, news, msgs) and Lam Research (LRCX, news, msgs) are best exposed to iPhone semiconductor content on a relative basis."

Beyond that caveat, he failed to address the size and scope of the iPhone: Maybe 1 million units will be produced this quarter, and Apple says it will sell around 10 million in the next 18 months. In that time, there will probably be sales of 1.5 billion cell phones and 400 million personal computers. So it's laughable to think that the addition of a puny 10 million iPhones will move the needle at any foundry anywhere -- but again, those details don't make it into Wall Street's version of "analysis."

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/ContrarianChronicles/WallStreetBetsItsChipsOnFantasy.aspx

[Popps]

A) I am very qualified.
B) Don't get mad because I called you on your comment that was untrue
C) the majority of all computer consumers agree that MACs are lacking.

Oh, I'm not mad. You just said you weren't qualified to comment, and I agreed.

You're totally unqualified. Again, that won't stop you... but you admitted it yourself. You're not a true multi-platform user.

I'm talking about experts. Take, a guy like Leo Laporte, one of the most respected computer/technology experts (particularly with regards to consumers) in the country. He knows both platforms inside and out, and is a big Macintosh fan.

But, he's qualified to comment. You (like most) are not.



I've never owned an Audi. Hence, I won't comment on their quality. I can tell you what I think of an Infiniti, but not an Audi.

Just because I drive cars.... and I enjoy the one I own.... does not make me qualified to give an opinion on models with which I have no experience.

Get it?

So, it's great that you recognize that you're not qualified to comment.

[RkyMtnThunder]

there is a reason Macs have less than 10% share in the corporate market place


Anyone ever step foot onto a large Fortune 500 campus with....say....5,000 employees on site? Are there 5,000 macs - one on every desk?


Hell no

why?

cause they are a nightmare to support. Proprietary systems like Macs are simply too expensive to deal with from a support standpoint - the overall cost of ownership is much higher. Compound that against the needs of the employee base of a Fortune 500 (or 1000) company and it easily adds up to not being competitive with PCs


It might be a 'good' maybe even 'great' product, I wouldnt argue that. (OS more so than the hardware)

But as far as practicality in a large corporate, professional environment....Macs dont fare too well. Schools, yes. Graphic design companies, yes. Mom and pop shops, sure. Major corporations? No.

I have over 12 years IT experience in corporate America.

I suppose I am unqualified to comment as well... ::)

[Jana®]

I guees i'm a sucker because I am getting this bad mutha fka. I am like a broad with shoes when it comes to new cell phones. It's an expensive, bad habit.

I love cell phones, but this one looks sucky. I like ye olde flip phone style. I have a Katana, but I hate it with a passion. I want the Sync, but Cingular is the only one with it and my credit sucks so bad they wanted a big ass deposit from me to get it. I'll have to find a phone I like through Sprint.

[Garcia Bronco]

Oh, I'm not mad. You just said you weren't qualified to comment, and I agreed.

You're totally unqualified. Again, that won't stop you... but you admitted it yourself. You're not a true multi-platform user.

I'm talking about experts. Take, a guy like Leo Laporte, one of the most respected computer/technology experts (particularly with regards to consumers) in the country. He knows both platforms inside and out, and is a big Macintosh fan.

But, he's qualified to comment. You (like most) are not.



I've never owned an Audi. Hence, I won't comment on their quality. I can tell you what I think of an Infiniti, but not an Audi.

Just because I drive cars.... and I enjoy the one I own.... does not make me qualified to give an opinion on models with which I have no experience.

Get it?

So, it's great that you recognize that you're not qualified to comment.


First off...Leo Laporte is a walking Apple bill board. Second, I don't need to use every iteration of MAC OS to know what it brings to the table. I have almost 10 years of desktop to enterprise design experience. I am very qualified. But to each their own.

[Rock Chalk]

HTC has a better phone, using MS Surface type technology.

[Garcia Bronco]

there is a reason Macs have less than 10% share in the corporate market place


Anyone ever step foot onto a large Fortune 500 campus with....say....5,000 employees on site? Are there 5,000 macs - one on every desk?


Hell no

why?

cause they are a nightmare to support. Proprietary systems like Macs are simply too expensive to deal with from a support standpoint - the overall cost of ownership is much higher. Compound that against the needs of the employee base of a Fortune 500 (or 1000) company and it easily adds up to not being competitive with PCs


It might be a 'good' maybe even 'great' product, I wouldnt argue that. (OS more so than the hardware)

But as far as practicality in a large corporate, professional environment....Macs dont fare too well. Schools, yes. Graphic design companies, yes. Mom and pop shops, sure. Major corporations? No.

I have over 12 years IT experience in corporate America.

I suppose I am unqualified to comment as well... ::)


I agree 100 percent. I also add that the reason the OS performs as well as it does with it's hardware is because it's only designed to work with that hardware. It doesn't have the flexiablity of the PC.

[Rock Chalk]

First off, they didn't claim to invent the MP3 player. They just made it appealing to the masses. Like that or not, those are the facts. They did it the best, just like they are outpacing anyone on the planet at selling music in a digital format.

In fact, Apple just passed Amazon.com and is now the third largest retailer of music in the world.

So, once again, they didn't invent (nor claim) to invent digital music delivery. They just perfected it and made it appealing to the public.

The majority of people with actual experience with both computer platforms will tell you that they put out a better overall computer product than other manufacturers, as well. (I don't mean people that tried a Mac at the Apple store in the mall for 10 minutes, I'm talking about professionals that work in a multi-platform environment.)

So, don't get mad at a company for correctly diagnosing what consumers want and supplying them with it. That's just proper business strategy, and their products regularly rate out near the top of their respective categories when compared with their peers.



That said, I won't be getting an iPhone. Too many cons (price, switching services, etc.) ... though I do suspect that the device will surpass most others with regards to functionality, ease of use, etc.

I'm a Treo user. (Palm based) It's a pretty smart OS. The phone is functional enough. Not much fun, but gets the job done as far as email, media, etc. Far better than the Windows Mobile-based MDA I had for a while. Good lord, you talk about a POS. It took 12 steps to get the thing to snap a picture. My kid would be in the other room by the time I could get the friggin' camera to load up. Why anyone would subject themselves to that OS is beyond me. You'd literally have to just enjoy unnecessary steps.

Actually, the iPhone will not surpass most others in regards to anything but price. Like the iPod and its ****ty interface and usability, the iPhone will "succeed" only in the "cool" factor and the stupid dumbasses who will buy one just because they are fanboys (present company excluded as you mentioned...fanboy).

iPod may be the most popular, but like PCs, its not the best MP3 player out there. Not even close to the best one. Its not even the easiest one to use, and neither are Macs. Fact is, Apple doesnt make "ease" of use a priority, and that sir, is a fact. Cool is and expensive are priority with the entire company and, to their credit, they are very good at what they do. They have suckered in literally billions with the iPod (except me, I have no use for any MP3 players, but the Creative Zen is by far the best one IMO that I have seen), and a few thousand Mac users, and will sucker in a couple of million people to buy their 200% marked up phone.

All I want is Mac users to shut the **** up. Im so sick of hearing about Mac's and Apple and how its so much better than everything else. As an IT professional, like RkyMtnThunder, I can tell you Mac's from my point of view, are NOT better than everything else. At best, they are on par with every other platform. Dont got a virus? Well, get more market share and watch the hackers hit you as they see you as a viable platform to do bad things on. No OS, not Linux, OSX or Windows is immune. Windows gets the publicity because its the ONLY viable platform that spammers, hackers and malicious programmers who are smarter than the people that build OSs can exploit to an extent that is either profitable or worthwhile.

[RkyMtnThunder]

Actually I think Mac users are kinda cute with their idealism. And downright hysterical with their snobbery and elitism.

But for all their posturing ....what....20+ years running now they have been unable to solidify themselves as a major player in the corporate marketplace.

They now are better known for glorified walkmans than they are for real world computing solutions. That ought to tell ya something.






BTW - When is the last time anyone has seen a data center filled wall to wall with Macintosh equipment?

(crickets chirping)

[Popps]

there is a reason Macs have less than 10% share in the corporate market place

Yes, they cost more. Too much for most businesses dealing in large volumes.

cause they are a nightmare to support.

I work in a building full of them... probably 100-150. We've had no problems, whatsoever with support. Like anything else, you just have to have someone who's trained.

Thats said, it's not really a mystery why most companies go with the cheaper option.

[Rock Chalk]

Yes, they cost more. Too much for most businesses dealing in large volumes.



I work in a building full of them... probably 100-150. We've had no problems, whatsoever with support. Like anything else, you just have to have someone who's trained.

Thats said, it's not really a mystery why most companies go with the cheaper option.

Wait, didnt you just argue in the last fanboy thread that Macs are supposedly comparable to PCs in price?

Make up your mind.

[El Minion]

there is a reason Macs have less than 10% share in the corporate market place


Anyone ever step foot onto a large Fortune 500 campus with....say....5,000 employees on site? Are there 5,000 macs - one on every desk?


Hell no

why?

cause they are a nightmare to support. Proprietary systems like Macs are simply too expensive to deal with from a support standpoint - the overall cost of ownership is much higher. Compound that against the needs of the employee base of a Fortune 500 (or 1000) company and it easily adds up to not being competitive with PCs


It might be a 'good' maybe even 'great' product, I wouldnt argue that. (OS more so than the hardware)

But as far as practicality in a large corporate, professional environment....Macs dont fare too well. Schools, yes. Graphic design companies, yes. Mom and pop shops, sure. Major corporations? No.

I have over 12 years IT experience in corporate America.

I suppose I am unqualified to comment as well... ::)

Maybe its because of misinformation, prejudice, ignorance and Apple focusing on other priorities. But what can't be said is that Macs can't be a considered as viable alternatives to Windows.

---------------

This story appeared on Network World at
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/022707-mac-os-going-corporate.html


Mac OS being infused with the tools of the corporate IT trade, but can it catch on?

Users say Intel-based Macs are changing the landscape slowly.

By John Fontana, Network World, 02/27/07

Apple, long a ghost in the corporate-infrastructure mainstream, is beginning to cast a shadow as IT departments discover Mac platforms that are being transformed into realistic alternatives to Windows and Linux.

Is Mac OS ready for the enterprise? Vote and discuss.

A number of factors are helping raise the eyebrows of those responsible for upgrading desktops and servers: for example, Apple’s shift to the Intel architecture; the inclusion of infrastructure and interoperability hooks, such as directory services in the Mac OS X Server; dual-boot capabilities; clustering and storage technology; third-party virtualization software; and comparison shopping, which is being fostered by migration costs and hardware overhauls associated with Microsoft’s Vista.

Despite these goodies, however, Apple isn’t pushing into corporations with a defined desktop strategy. The company still does not have a formal division focused on developing software for the enterprise or supporting it. And it refused Network World’s requests to discuss its plans for enterprise customers.

“Because of the switch to Intel, success of the Mac OS X, the stability and elegance of the platform, the Mac is a very viable alternative, but it would require a dramatic shift in the company’s resource allocation to go after the enterprise,” says Van Baker, an analyst with Gartner.

Click to see: Survey http://www.networkworld.com/graphics/2007/0305MacOS.jpg


IT shops that have dipped their toes in Apple’s pool of desktop and server platforms say others should test the water.

“Intel Macs have really changed things. Beyond the obvious comparisons — that Macs are now speed-parity with Wintel machines — vendors have been able to develop more software for the platform, and where that is impossible, virtual machines are always an option,” says Scott Melendez, manager of enterprise messaging for the city and county of San Francisco, who brought Macs into governmental offices in 2003 and says they are there to stay alongside Windows machines.

“There will always be a stigma by some old-time network managers — that Macs are difficult to network — from the AppleTalk days, or that they are difficult to support because it’s not Windows. By the end of 2007, however, I think the landscape will have changed,” Melendez says.

It’s a heady prediction, because Mac’s share of the desktop market has been hovering around 4% since 2000 and isn’t expected to change through 2010, IDC says. IDC’s numbers for Mac are worse in the server market, where the Mac OS X Server’s share is well below 1% vs. other options.

Users are helping rock that boat, however.

“We use Mac Xserve and Xserve RAID as the heart of the backup strategy we have throughout the corporation,” says Kevin Hansen, manager of IT for Quadion, which manufacturers rubber and plastic components. Xserve is Apple’s Intel-based storage platform. “All our Windows 2000 and 2003 boxes back up to the Xserve,” he says.

Hansen put the backup infrastructure in place two years ago and since has added an Xserve to back up all the company’s CAD drawings. “It is great for that. It has lots of scalability and terabytes of disk space,” he says.

Others are being drawn in for a peek as they evaluate Microsoft’s Vista client operating system and what it will take to migrate.

“The changes in Vista are significant enough that we think we can absorb the change going to Macs just as easily as going to Vista,” says Tom Gonzales, a senior network administrator for the Colorado State Employees Credit Union in Denver. He says the thought of going to Apple is not as scary as it once was. “If you had asked me two years ago to consider Macs, I would have laughed. But Boot Camp and Parallels, anything we can’t do with our Macs we would be able to run a Windows environment under there,” says Gonzales, who is currently in the Mac evaluation stage.

Boot Camp is coming this spring, in the next version of the Mac operating system code-named Leopard. It lets users install and run Windows XP on their Macs.

Parallels is a company that develops virtualization software for the Mac that lets Windows, open source and Mac operating systems run simultaneously.

That’s the type of innovation that is moving the Mac up the enterprise ladder.

“These capabilities help form a migration strategy,” says Paul Suh, president of ps Enable, a consulting firm that specializes in systems integration and security for the Mac operating system and Mac OS X Server.

“There are lots of enterprise apps written to talk to massive databases or transaction-processing systems that would take years to rewrite. OK, so when you need to talk to those systems, you fire up the virtual machines and use it,” Suh says.

However, Suh, who spent eight years at Apple beginning in the late '90s, admits it is not a perfect system, given the added support load over a single operating system environment.

The desktop, however, isn’t the only place Apple has features enticing to corporations.

Mac OS X Server provides file and print, cross-platform management, security, and collaboration features, as well as support for POP and IMAP mail, FTP, DNS, and DHCP.

Apple’s Xsan and Xgrid add storage-area networking and clustering options, and the server comes with an unlimited client license for no additional cost.

Click to see: Prowling Leopard

Prowling Leopard
Apple is slated to release the next version of its operating system, code-named Leopard, before May. It includes a number of features to entice corporate users including support for both PowerPC and Intel x86-based Macs, and support for 64-bit applications. Here are some other features corporate users may find useful.

Features Description
Desktop Time Machine Automated backup that runs at regular intervals; recovery feature lets you restore deleted files, find versions of documents and other lost or deleted files.
Spotlight Search across network-mounted folders.
Server iCal Server, Wiki Server, Spotlight Server Collaboration tools for sharing calendars, discussion threads and supporting search across servers.
Xgrid2 Lets Xgrid software run without having to set up controllers or agents.
Open Directory 4 Cross-domain authorization, cascading replication and RADIUS authentication for AirPort base stations.
Apple also has added such open source packages as Apache, Samba, Kerberos, Postfix, Jabber, SpamAssassin and OpenLDAP; and has integrated them in a unified management interface.

OpenLDAP lets the Mac OS X Server plug into Microsoft’s Active Directory and Novell’s eDirectory. The server’s Kerberos infrastructure supports single sign-on, and the platform integrates with NT Domain services, so the server can function as a Primary Domain Controller or Backup Domain Controller in a Windows environment. That configuration lets Windows users authenticate against Mac OS X Server directly from their PC logon.

In Leopard, Apple will add a new iCal server, wiki server, content-searching features and podcast producer as proof that Apple is not playing catch-up but is out in front of the curve on providing social-networking tools.

Despite all those features, there are still some worms at Apple’s core.

The company has no formal support infrastructure that rivals its famous, consumer-support Apple Store Genius Bar; and its selling focus is decidedly in the consumer market.

“To be successful with businesses, they would have to build up an enterprise selling organization if they wanted to gain greater growth in corporate environments,” says Tim Bajarin, an analyst with Creative Strategies.

Others say Apple would need to rely on partnerships to open enterprise doors.

“Intel has a good-sized global sales organization; could Apple do a partnership with Intel? Sure, that is always a possibility,” says Gartner’s Baker.

In the end, some suggest, the big corporate milestone for Apple comes down to getting Mac into the heads and hands of the right people and letting the platform woo converts.

“I guess I still don’t see Mac having crossed the awareness gap,” says ps Enable’s Suh. “It has started to seep into IT consciousness, but there is still a lot of prejudice out there, with some saying Mac is not ready for prime time. Until that awareness gap is closed, then everything else is secondary.”

All contents copyright 1995-2007 Network World, Inc. http://www.networkworld.com

[Popps]

All I want is Mac users to shut the **** up. Im so sick of hearing about Mac's .

Happy product users tend to share their stories, just like unhappy ones. Check this forum... you'll find endless "Windows sucks" threads... and not started by Mac users.

:)

[DBruleU]

So, I could read this entire thread and come up with an answer...but I'm lazy.

All I want to know is it even worth buying an iPhone? Or is my Treo better than it still?

All I see on this page in talk about MAC's, and I already know they suck, and would never own one myself.

[Garcia Bronco]

Maybe its because of misinformation, prejudice, ignorance and Apple focusing on other priorities. But what can't be said is that Macs can't be a considered as viable alternatives to Windows.

---------------

This story appeared on Network World at
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/022707-mac-os-going-corporate.html


Mac OS being infused with the tools of the corporate IT trade, but can it catch on?

Users say Intel-based Macs are changing the landscape slowly.

By John Fontana, Network World, 02/27/07

Apple, long a ghost in the corporate-infrastructure mainstream, is beginning to cast a shadow as IT departments discover Mac platforms that are being transformed into realistic alternatives to Windows and Linux.

Is Mac OS ready for the enterprise? Vote and discuss.

A number of factors are helping raise the eyebrows of those responsible for upgrading desktops and servers: for example, Apple’s shift to the Intel architecture; the inclusion of infrastructure and interoperability hooks, such as directory services in the Mac OS X Server; dual-boot capabilities; clustering and storage technology; third-party virtualization software; and comparison shopping, which is being fostered by migration costs and hardware overhauls associated with Microsoft’s Vista.

Despite these goodies, however, Apple isn’t pushing into corporations with a defined desktop strategy. The company still does not have a formal division focused on developing software for the enterprise or supporting it. And it refused Network World’s requests to discuss its plans for enterprise customers.

“Because of the switch to Intel, success of the Mac OS X, the stability and elegance of the platform, the Mac is a very viable alternative, but it would require a dramatic shift in the company’s resource allocation to go after the enterprise,” says Van Baker, an analyst with Gartner.

Click to see: Survey http://www.networkworld.com/graphics/2007/0305MacOS.jpg


IT shops that have dipped their toes in Apple’s pool of desktop and server platforms say others should test the water.

“Intel Macs have really changed things. Beyond the obvious comparisons — that Macs are now speed-parity with Wintel machines — vendors have been able to develop more software for the platform, and where that is impossible, virtual machines are always an option,” says Scott Melendez, manager of enterprise messaging for the city and county of San Francisco, who brought Macs into governmental offices in 2003 and says they are there to stay alongside Windows machines.

“There will always be a stigma by some old-time network managers — that Macs are difficult to network — from the AppleTalk days, or that they are difficult to support because it’s not Windows. By the end of 2007, however, I think the landscape will have changed,” Melendez says.

It’s a heady prediction, because Mac’s share of the desktop market has been hovering around 4% since 2000 and isn’t expected to change through 2010, IDC says. IDC’s numbers for Mac are worse in the server market, where the Mac OS X Server’s share is well below 1% vs. other options.

Users are helping rock that boat, however.

“We use Mac Xserve and Xserve RAID as the heart of the backup strategy we have throughout the corporation,” says Kevin Hansen, manager of IT for Quadion, which manufacturers rubber and plastic components. Xserve is Apple’s Intel-based storage platform. “All our Windows 2000 and 2003 boxes back up to the Xserve,” he says.

Hansen put the backup infrastructure in place two years ago and since has added an Xserve to back up all the company’s CAD drawings. “It is great for that. It has lots of scalability and terabytes of disk space,” he says.

Others are being drawn in for a peek as they evaluate Microsoft’s Vista client operating system and what it will take to migrate.

“The changes in Vista are significant enough that we think we can absorb the change going to Macs just as easily as going to Vista,” says Tom Gonzales, a senior network administrator for the Colorado State Employees Credit Union in Denver. He says the thought of going to Apple is not as scary as it once was. “If you had asked me two years ago to consider Macs, I would have laughed. But Boot Camp and Parallels, anything we can’t do with our Macs we would be able to run a Windows environment under there,” says Gonzales, who is currently in the Mac evaluation stage.

Boot Camp is coming this spring, in the next version of the Mac operating system code-named Leopard. It lets users install and run Windows XP on their Macs.

Parallels is a company that develops virtualization software for the Mac that lets Windows, open source and Mac operating systems run simultaneously.

That’s the type of innovation that is moving the Mac up the enterprise ladder.

“These capabilities help form a migration strategy,” says Paul Suh, president of ps Enable, a consulting firm that specializes in systems integration and security for the Mac operating system and Mac OS X Server.

“There are lots of enterprise apps written to talk to massive databases or transaction-processing systems that would take years to rewrite. OK, so when you need to talk to those systems, you fire up the virtual machines and use it,” Suh says.

However, Suh, who spent eight years at Apple beginning in the late '90s, admits it is not a perfect system, given the added support load over a single operating system environment.

The desktop, however, isn’t the only place Apple has features enticing to corporations.

Mac OS X Server provides file and print, cross-platform management, security, and collaboration features, as well as support for POP and IMAP mail, FTP, DNS, and DHCP.

Apple’s Xsan and Xgrid add storage-area networking and clustering options, and the server comes with an unlimited client license for no additional cost.

Click to see: Prowling Leopard

Prowling Leopard
Apple is slated to release the next version of its operating system, code-named Leopard, before May. It includes a number of features to entice corporate users including support for both PowerPC and Intel x86-based Macs, and support for 64-bit applications. Here are some other features corporate users may find useful.

Features Description
Desktop Time Machine Automated backup that runs at regular intervals; recovery feature lets you restore deleted files, find versions of documents and other lost or deleted files.
Spotlight Search across network-mounted folders.
Server iCal Server, Wiki Server, Spotlight Server Collaboration tools for sharing calendars, discussion threads and supporting search across servers.
Xgrid2 Lets Xgrid software run without having to set up controllers or agents.
Open Directory 4 Cross-domain authorization, cascading replication and RADIUS authentication for AirPort base stations.
Apple also has added such open source packages as Apache, Samba, Kerberos, Postfix, Jabber, SpamAssassin and OpenLDAP; and has integrated them in a unified management interface.

OpenLDAP lets the Mac OS X Server plug into Microsoft’s Active Directory and Novell’s eDirectory. The server’s Kerberos infrastructure supports single sign-on, and the platform integrates with NT Domain services, so the server can function as a Primary Domain Controller or Backup Domain Controller in a Windows environment. That configuration lets Windows users authenticate against Mac OS X Server directly from their PC logon.

In Leopard, Apple will add a new iCal server, wiki server, content-searching features and podcast producer as proof that Apple is not playing catch-up but is out in front of the curve on providing social-networking tools.

Despite all those features, there are still some worms at Apple’s core.

The company has no formal support infrastructure that rivals its famous, consumer-support Apple Store Genius Bar; and its selling focus is decidedly in the consumer market.

“To be successful with businesses, they would have to build up an enterprise selling organization if they wanted to gain greater growth in corporate environments,” says Tim Bajarin, an analyst with Creative Strategies.

Others say Apple would need to rely on partnerships to open enterprise doors.

“Intel has a good-sized global sales organization; could Apple do a partnership with Intel? Sure, that is always a possibility,” says Gartner’s Baker.

In the end, some suggest, the big corporate milestone for Apple comes down to getting Mac into the heads and hands of the right people and letting the platform woo converts.

“I guess I still don’t see Mac having crossed the awareness gap,” says ps Enable’s Suh. “It has started to seep into IT consciousness, but there is still a lot of prejudice out there, with some saying Mac is not ready for prime time. Until that awareness gap is closed, then everything else is secondary.”

All contents copyright 1995-2007 Network World, Inc. http://www.networkworld.com


They can do it if they want a taste of the enterprise market, but they'd be hard pressed to compete with Dell or Compaq any time soon. Maybe IBM though.

[Rock Chalk]

Happy product users tend to share their stories, just like unhappy ones. Check this forum... you'll find endless "Windows sucks" threads... and not started by Mac users.

:)

I agree, Windows sucks.

Its targeted ruthlessly by hackers and has the uneviable job of trying to be compatible with 90% of the world's software and computer hardware and while it does its best its bound to have many flaws.

But Mac sucks just as bad if not more so. Mac exploits labeled severe in the first 6 months of the Leopard release outnumbered Vista exploits labeled sever in its first 6 months.

Want the numbers? 10 out of 11 explots for Vista were severe. Thats 11 total exploits.

120+ on OSX, of those 80+ were severe exploits.

Why no attention on those? Because there is no money and/or benefit exploiting them Popps, THATS the point. They are not more secure or safer, just not targeted.

[Garcia Bronco]

So, I could read this entire thread and come up with an answer...but I'm lazy.

All I want to know is it even worth buying an iPhone? Or is my Treo better than it still?

All I see on this page in talk about MAC's, and I already know they suck, and would never own one myself.

The iPhone would be cooler....but I would wait to see a mobile 6 device. The thing IMO that is going to kill the iPhone is the keyboard

[RkyMtnThunder]

Maybe its because of misinformation, prejudice, ignorance and Apple focusing on other priorities. But what can't be said is that Macs can't be a considered as viable alternatives to Windows.




No - its about money and the bottom line is the bottom line.

They (suits) dont care what kind of equipment is on your desktop. All they care about is the bottom line.

If Apple could prove themselves to be a more cost effective solution for a Fortune 1000 company's needs - people would be lined up to buy pallets of product and sign huge agreements for future purchases. (like what Honeywell has done with Dell for example)

Apple wishes it was as simple as 'misinformation, prejudice, ignorance' cause a marketing campaign can fix that.

[Popps]

Wait, didnt you just argue in the last fanboy thread that Macs are supposedly comparable to PCs in price?

Make up your mind.

They can be, Alec. Depends if you're talking about an individual, or a company that has to buy 3000 machines.

You can't discern the difference in those two scenarios? Pretty sure you can.

[Popps]

Why no attention on those? Because there is no money and/or benefit exploiting them Popps, THATS the point. They are not more secure or safer, just not targeted.

Of course. Did anyone ever ague that?

I wasn't talking about security. I was talking about dependability, functionality, how smart the features are, etc.

But, we agree Windows sucks. That's a start.

[CSU Husker]

If I was planning on getting an iphone I sure as hell would not get one on the first revision. Let them work some bugs out before you drop half a grand on it.

[DBruleU]

The iPhone would be cooler....but I would wait to see a mobile 6 device. The thing IMO that is going to kill the iPhone is the keyboard

I have a Treo700W right now, and I'm pretty content with it. But a bunch of guys in my office are getting the iPhone soon.

I'm waiting to see if mobile 6 comes to Verizon anytime soon.

[Garcia Bronco]

I have a Treo700W right now, and I'm pretty content with it. But a bunch of guys in my office are getting the iPhone soon.

I'm waiting to see if mobile 6 comes to Verizon anytime soon.

I have the same phone and I can't stand it. There are so many flaws that...the next phone I get with be after CSU said....a couple of versions.

[DBruleU]

I have the same phone and I can't stand it. There are so many flaws that...the next phone I get with be after CSU said....a couple of versions.

I can't complain. I haven't had any problems with it since I got it. Most people I have talked to that have it like it as well.

[Broncoman13]

Here's what I want to know... what will the cost for all those features on the iPhone be per month? I'd love to have the internet features and all that other good stuff, but not at an extreme expense. I consider it more of a nicety rather than a necessity.

I currently have a Samsung G3 (whatever that means or does) cell phone that is decent in most areas. I use Cingular/AT&T service and it seems to be spotty in and around the foothills. At work I am lucky to get service at all. I understand that's a Cingular thing as others with Verizon or other services get a signal just fine.

Back to my original point. About 5 or 6 years ago I had a flip phone with service from Sprint. Sprint pissed me off plenty b/c they would nickel and dime you to death, or atleast that's how I remember it. But, I did have unlimited "internet" service. I could go to CBSSportsline and read stories on the net. Although everything was black and white and I didn't get pictures or images, I was able to surf the net and get stock updates etc. Cingular wants a ton of extra coin to have that service on my current phone. I imagine it would be the same with this iPhone but perhaps they're getting a little more customer friendly? I pay $78 a month right now for two phones. My wife and I share 400 "anytime" minutes. We have the common unlimited nights, weekends, and mobile to mobile within the network stuff... but nothing else. $78 and no bells or whistles. Surely they can come up with something better than that!

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Here's what I want to know... what will the cost for all those features on the iPhone be per month?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=19&entry_id=17975

[Maximus]

I'm a gadget freak, but I'm going to pass on this... I don't want anyphone that has to be sent back to change the battery... This is nothing but a souped up Ipod with calling capabilities. Furthermore I will not change from my current carrier just to get this.

[Rigs11]

I'm getting one. Already have cingular too:)

[Broncoman13]

Apple products are incredibly cutting edge and innovative, but I think they're over-priced and they've been outpaced by other manufacturers - at least in this instance: The 30GB video iPod is $259 new, but the Creative Zen widescreen is just $239, and the Zen has a 4.3" screen - over twice the total screen area of the 2.5" iPod, and the resolution is much higher too:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8d/ZenVisionW.jpg



Very Weird Story - So just very recently my girlfriend buys one on eBay, factory sealed for just $210 total incl. shipping from a college student in Virginia who got it as a gift and didn't want it. That was the week before the massacre (TJ and Alec can attest), and when the whole thing happened she immediately recognized Virginia Tech as the girl's college. Catherine e-mailed her again, but we haven't heard back.

Then, after she recieved it, I suggested going on c-net to read more about it. Well, the video review on c-net describing it was done by James Kim - the guy who got lost with his family in the snow in Oregon and died:

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7791/zenis9.jpg
http://reviews.cnet.com/Creative_Zen_Vision_W_30GB/4505-6499_7-32058044.html?tag=prod.txt.1


Thanks Dick, now I'm sitting here waiting for the next 10 minutes to go by to see if I win the auction on ebay for this thing... My belated Father's day present!!!

[Broncoman13]

You gotta be freaking kidding me!!! 30 seconds left and I have the high bid... A minute later I go back to PAY for my new thingy-ma-bob and BAMMO... I'd been outbid in the last 30 seconds. It went up another $22 in 30 seconds. BASTARDS!!!

[wabbit]

I'm a gadget freak, but I'm going to pass on this... I don't want anyphone that has to be sent back to change the battery... This is nothing but a souped up Ipod with calling capabilities. Furthermore I will not change from my current carrier just to get this.


I was dinking around with one the promotional models a couple of weeks ago & I really had a hard time with the...what is that...virtual ($) keypad.

I was told you have to be little more careful typing out...whatever...because the heat from your finger can spill over from one letter to the next.

It has a remarkable numbers of features, but, no thanks.

[ak1971]

holy ****....alt.nerd.obsessive

[Maximus]

I was dinking around with one the promotional models a couple of weeks ago & I really had a hard time with the...what is that...virtual ($) keypad.

I was told you have to be little more careful typing out...whatever...because the heat from your finger can spill over from one letter to the next.

It has a remarkable numbers of features, but, no thanks.

The heat from your finger can spill over... That is outrageous! The potential bugs and costs of adding services is a major drawback. People need to think about the consequences of how apple is packaging this phone. The biggest downfall of the computer maker Packard bell was packaging. Packard bell tied everything into their motherboard which made expansion virtually impossible. The iPhone and iPods are designed the same way.

Consumers cannot change their own battery and if a major change in design happens your iPod or iPhone can be rendered obsolete very quickly. I recently took a trip to Georgia and had major problems with my cellphone battery. The battery would not hold a charge because of the humidity in Georgia. I had to charge my phone 2x a day! When I returned to NY the battery performance immediately returned to 1 charge every 4 to 5 days.

Regular cellphone use will drain the life expectancy out of a battery very quickly... Add the gadgets that the iPhone incorporates and battery disaster is almost certain.

[Popps]

If your battery died, couldn't you just drop into the apple store and have it swapped? You can do that with any other device they sell, pretty much.

Talk time extended to 8 hours, apparently. That's right around what my Treo gets, I'd say.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=3289742

[Maximus]

If your battery died, couldn't you just drop into the apple store and have it swapped? You can do that with any other device they sell, pretty much.

Talk time extended to 8 hours, apparently. That's right around what my Treo gets, I'd say.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=3289742

You probably can swap it out... how much will it cost after the warranty runs out??? Are the technicians at Cingular stores capable of taking it apart with out doing permanent damage? What about the lack of available apple stores across the country.

Your traveling through west bum **** oklahoma or arkansas and your battery dies or malfunctions... Assuming you don't have a car charger.... Where do you take it?

[Maximus]

How many people follow these rules or know about the life cycles of batteries?

http://www.motorola.com/testservices/article1.htm

[Popps]

You probably can swap it out... how much will it cost after the warranty runs out???

Not sure, but you can extend Applecare for 3 years on most items for a pretty reasonable cost. I finally had to use my Applecare (2nd time in 10 years, once on iPod that had issues.) Early Macbooks shipped with some bad batteries. They swapped mine out and turned it around to me in less than 36 hours. Almost creepy how fast that thing was back to me.

Your traveling through west bum **** oklahoma or arkansas and your battery dies or malfunctions... Assuming you don't have a car charger.... Where do you take it?

True, but I'm trying to think what would happen with my current phone. (Treo) If the battery actually died, I'd probably be just as hard pressed to get a new one as an iPhone owner in some kind of rural area.

Now, if you just lost your charger cord... you'd certainly be more likely to find a replacement in a gas station or something, I'd guess.

As for the cost, it's a luxury item. (Though people that shouldn't be buying them probably will.) Things like high end phones should be for people that have that kind of income to spend on those kinds of items. Sort of like plasma TVs or something.

Remember, Treo and Blackberry run into the high $300s, low $400s. We're only talking about around a $100 difference for entry point of the iPhone.

I'll stay away for now, just because I'm happy enough with my phone and want to upgrade a couple of my machines soon.... more justifiable expenses for my biz.

Of course, I say this now. We'll see how I hold up once I get my hands on one and play around with it!

[Garcia Bronco]

I'm getting one. Already have cingular too:)

This is explains everything. :spit:

[OrangeShadow]

any extra dough i have this summer is going into my car so no new phone for me. new wheels,exhaust and KW variant 2 coilovers !Booya!

you old folks probably have no clue :giggle:

[maven]

Sell the iphone on Ebay. Make money.

[DBruleU]

Sell the iphone on Ebay. Make money.

I did that with an Xbox360, and made a major profit!

[DenverBrit]

And the latest from Apple.

<object width='448' height='336'><param name='movie' value='http://www.glumbert.com/embed/irack'></param><param name='wmode' value='transparent'></param><embed src='http://www.glumbert.com/embed/irack' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='transparent' width='448' height='336'></embed></object><div><a href='http://www.glumbert.com/media/irack'></a></div>

[Popps]

Gotta love the internet...

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Jkrn6ecxthM"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Jkrn6ecxthM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

[Garcia Bronco]

Sell the iphone on Ebay. Make money.

I saw them going for under sale value yesterday. Pretty crazy.

[Orange_Beard]

WTF? That phone doesn't do anything that my Sanyo 8400 won't do. It has a touchscreen. Big deal. $500? What a rip off. Apple sucks.

Sorry but the touch screen is really great. I was blown away by how cool it is...I am getting one this week.

[Garcia Bronco]

Sorry but the touch screen is really great. I was blown away by how cool it is...I am getting one this week.

check ebay...you might save some cash

[Bladerunner]

I thought it would suck...when you check it out in person...it doesn't suck...it's very slick and pretty damn cool...

I'm not getting one though...too much loot, and I never buy freshout technology...the headaches and early adoptor premiums are too much for me

[Popps]

Haven't gotten to play with one, yet. The one person I know that has one is raving, though.

[OrangeShadow]

i think ill wait for the next version for 2 reasons,
1, my contract for verizon should be up
2, at&t should have their 3g network up by then and the mobile web will actually be fast

[Orange_Beard]

2 of my co-workers got them. Very rarely do I see something that lives up to the "wow" factor, the iPhone does. IMHO.
They have both been using them all week end, all day, all I heard was " Look what this thing does"

I am a devout Blackberriest. The iPhone will convert me.

[Rigs11]

This is explains everything. :spit:

do tell

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I got one on friday. Its still blowing me away. An awesome phone...i love it.

[Popps]

HOLY ****!!!!

I finally got my hands on one. (Just to mess with, haven't bought, yet.)

Put it this way, when people say that "other phones can do the same thing"... it's like saying a Yugo does the same thing as a Ferrari.

The display alone is just insane. My friend showed me a slideshow, then a movie he edited. The web looks like.... well, the web. It doesn't look like some silly text version.

Damned cool. Wish Apple wouldn't have excluded people by being ATT only.
We'll see. My contract is up soon. I might not be able to resist.

Didn't know what to expect, but this thing is incredible.

[Garcia Bronco]

HOLY ****!!!!

I finally got my hands on one. (Just to mess with, haven't bought, yet.)

Put it this way, when people say that "other phones can do the same thing"... it's like saying a Yugo does the same thing as a Ferrari.

The display alone is just insane. My friend showed me a slideshow, then a movie he edited. The web looks like.... well, the web. It doesn't look like some silly text version.

Damned cool. Wish Apple wouldn't have excluded people by being ATT only.
We'll see. My contract is up soon. I might not be able to resist.

Didn't know what to expect, but this thing is incredible.


You can already do all that stuff with a smartphone, and have been able to do so for years as well as PDA's. Most of my posts come from a PDA cell phone.

[Popps]

You can already do all that stuff with a smartphone, and have been able to do so for years as well as PDA's. Most of my posts come from a PDA cell phone.

LMAO!

Trust me. I've owned (and currently own) a "smart" phone.

It's a different universe. Like I said, a Ford Taurus has 4 wheels. It doesn't make it the same as a SLR McLaren.

I'm not talking about taking a crappy camera picture or posting to a message board. I'm talking about the entire experience of the thing. It's damned impressive.

[Orange_Beard]

LMAO!

Trust me. I've owned (and currently own) a "smart" phone.

It's a different universe. Like I said, a Ford Taurus has 4 wheels. It doesn't make it the same as a SLR McLaren.

I'm not talking about taking a crappy camera picture or posting to a message board. I'm talking about the entire experience of the thing. It's damned impressive.


Agree. It is really night and day.

[Garcia Bronco]

LMAO!

Trust me. I've owned (and currently own) a "smart" phone.

It's a different universe. Like I said, a Ford Taurus has 4 wheels. It doesn't make it the same as a SLR McLaren.

I'm not talking about taking a crappy camera picture or posting to a message board. I'm talking about the entire experience of the thing. It's damned impressive.

Making video on the device depends on the ability of the camera. Isn't 5 mega pixels?

[Popps]

Making video on the device depends on the ability of the camera. Isn't 5 mega pixels?

It's more the playback that I was impressed by. You can also edit movies in iMovie and play them on the phone. It's like watching a mini plasma hi-def TV, as opposed to the washed out look of even higher end smartphones like my Treo.

[Garcia Bronco]

It's more the playback that I was impressed by. You can also edit movies in iMovie and play them on the phone. It's like watching a mini plasma hi-def TV, as opposed to the washed out look of even higher end smartphones like my Treo.

The display is what makes a phone IMO. How was the typing?

[COBronco 69]

Something I read on another site....


The Apple iPhone came out this Friday. We have taken the opportunity to write up the disclaimer that should appear on the device, but does not.

The Apple iPhone is operated by touch screen only. There are no hard buttons thus it should not be used while driving. Checking messages and dialing requires constant site of the screen as the buttons are not distinguished by touch. Dialing can only be done by keeping your eyes on the dial-pad. This prevents hitting the wrong buttons. The Apple iPhone display and touchscreen are only visible in low light. Direct sunlight prevent the screen from being viewable until you go in doors. When showing your iPhone to friends and family, make sure to wipe the screen of any face goo before letting them handle or view the device. Do not show the Apple iPhone Internet capabilities to friends or family unless you are operating it under a WiFi signal. The slow AT&T data speeds will not allow observes to be as impressed as they should be with a $500+ phone. Should the battery run down in 18 months, you can send your phone into Apple and it will be replaced within two weeks, any data on the phone should be backed up prior to sending in the phone. When showing off the great features of the iPhone, you must show the following:

1. Voice mail and text messages can be checked in any order.

2. You can drag icons around.

3. You can view YouTube videos (don't try this unless you are operating under WiFi as stated above).

4. Show them a video, some pictures and how it plays iTunes music.

Do not do the following when showing off your iPhone. Do not let any non-iPhone owner type on the onscreen keyboard. Do not mention that the Internet based features are only worth using when you are in a library, outside of an upscale appartment complex or anywhere else that you may happen across an open WiFi broadcast. Do not answer questions about coverage or how well it works as a phone. Do not get into a feature comparison with any Palm Treo owner. Should you be confronted by Treo owner simply insist that the Treo sucks and that the Treo screen is tiny and some models don't even have WiFi. If the Treo owner shows you features that are not available on the iPhone, simply say, "Sheeea! That's stupid who needs that feature? Say this even if the feature really is cool like the easy to feel and press buttons, the ability to view and listen to online video and radio (kinoma player), removable battery, expandable memory, the D-pad, The ability to beam data, the long list of thousands of third party apps, compatability with all 3G networks, the 1.3 megapixel digital camera/camcorder or that it's available on all major cell networks for under $300.

Congratulations on selecting the new iPhone.

[Popps]

The display is what makes a phone IMO. How was the typing?

Honestly a little weird to get used to, but my buddy said the learning curve is quick. It also has some seriously insane methods of learning how you type, and predicting words for you. (In a helpful way, not annoying.) My buddy has had it since Friday and says he's almost totally comfortable typing now.

My favorite feature, flip the phone sideways... and the screen flips for you!

So pissed this is ATT only. I'm a huge Apple guy, but that one I just can't understand. It must have just been too good of a financial deal for Apple to turn down.

[Orange_Beard]

The typing will take some getting used to. Right now I like the BB keyboard better.

[Popps]

Do not get into a feature comparison with any Palm Treo owner. Should you be confronted by Treo owner simply insist that the Treo sucks and that the Treo screen is tiny and some models don't even have WiFi.

I own a Treo and if any iPhone owners want to trade their crappy iPhone for my Treo, please drop me a line. :)

Night and day.

[Killericon]

I'm good with my 3 year old peice of **** phone, thanks.

[Popps]

Though, I will say... the Palm OS (Treo) is simple to use, and not bad. I'm fairly happy with my phone. It's just not sexy, fun or particularly compelling to be used as an all-in-one device.

[Garcia Bronco]

Honestly a little weird to get used to, but my buddy said the learning curve is quick. It also has some seriously insane methods of learning how you type, and predicting words for you. (In a helpful way, not annoying.) My buddy has had it since Friday and says he's almost totally comfortable typing now.

My favorite feature, flip the phone sideways... and the screen flips for you!

So pissed this is ATT only. I'm a huge Apple guy, but that one I just can't understand. It must have just been too good of a financial deal for Apple to turn down.

I have a treo700w...it's a great PDA and a ****ty phone. Other carriers will get it. You want to use it datawise at 400kps....not AT&T's 14.4kbs(whatever speed it gets) network.

[Garcia Bronco]

Though, I will say... the Palm OS (Treo) is simple to use, and not bad. I'm fairly happy with my phone. It's just not sexy, fun or particularly compelling to be used as an all-in-one device.

Have you seen the 8525? It's got almost a full screen and a physical slide out keyboard.

[Popps]

Have you seen the 8525? It's got almost a full screen and a physical slide out keyboard.

Who makes it? Is it Windows or Palm based?

You should trade your 700W for a 700P. Had a friend who tried a Windows Media based phone and almost killed himself. He traded in for the Palm version and has been thrilled.

[Popps]

http://www.laptopmag.com/NR/rdonlyres/ehfzacwc7saqz2lob4d7w2evgkkugzyxkwrfr7yaqmgigko73j eitm53pona5z3y4hcngduncebbvn/cingular8525i.jpg

Damn. Windows based. I love that design, though. Big fan of that style phone.

[Garcia Bronco]

Who makes it? Is it Windows or Palm based?

You should trade your 700W for a 700P. Had a friend who tried a Windows Media based phone and almost killed himself. He traded in for the Palm version and has been thrilled.

Just not a big fan of the Palm OS. I also need a win mobile device because I am in the process of deploying 800 of them with OWA(outlook web access) for my company to go to exchange 2007. We are looking at putting out the 8525

[Garcia Bronco]

http://www.laptopmag.com/NR/rdonlyres/ehfzacwc7saqz2lob4d7w2evgkkugzyxkwrfr7yaqmgigko73j eitm53pona5z3y4hcngduncebbvn/cingular8525i.jpg

Damn. Windows based. I love that design, though. Big fan of that style phone.

I think it's the way to go...it's a nice display size and the keyboard if full size. I like it.

[Popps]

I think it's the way to go...it's a nice display size and the keyboard if full size. I like it.

Wish there was a Palm based with that design/screen. But, Palm based always seems to have the "bar phone" design.

http://www.hightechhut.com/images/4171-verizon_treo650.jpg

[Play2win]

LMAO!

Trust me. I've owned (and currently own) a "smart" phone.

It's a different universe. Like I said, a Ford Taurus has 4 wheels. It doesn't make it the same as a SLR McLaren.

I'm not talking about taking a crappy camera picture or posting to a message board. I'm talking about the entire experience of the thing. It's damned impressive.

Some people who are not in the know, never will be. Even when confronted with facts, they have already convinced themselves those facts are just others' opinions.


Me, myself, I am **this close** to eating my contract with T-Mobile, just so I can get my hands on that liquid lightning in a bottle...

[Garcia Bronco]

Wish there was a Palm based with that design/screen. But, Palm based always seems to have the "bar phone" design.

http://www.hightechhut.com/images/4171-verizon_treo650.jpg

I have used mine as my internet connection since I moved to Denver in december...and the bigger the screen the better. The only reason I don't like the palm os is because I used to have to support them. Maybe it was a "short between the keyboard and the chair", but the poeple using them had nothing but issues that I had to constantly fix.

[Garcia Bronco]

Some people who are not in the know, never will be. Even when confronted with facts, they have already convinced themselves those facts are just others' opinions.


Me, myself, I am **this close** to eating my contract with T-Mobile, just so I can get my hands on that liquid lightning in a bottle...

Wait a year...you'll be happy...this thing is bound to have issues....let other people figure it out and waste their cash. You'll get a better one down the road.

[Play2win]

Honestly a little weird to get used to, but my buddy said the learning curve is quick. It also has some seriously insane methods of learning how you type, and predicting words for you. (In a helpful way, not annoying.) My buddy has had it since Friday and says he's almost totally comfortable typing now.

My favorite feature, flip the phone sideways... and the screen flips for you!

So pissed this is ATT only. I'm a huge Apple guy, but that one I just can't understand. It must have just been too good of a financial deal for Apple to turn down.

They had an ongoing relationship with Cingular.

[Play2win]

Wait a year...you'll be happy...this thing is bound to have issues....let other people figure it out and waste their cash. You'll get a better one down the road.

Yeah, I know. There will be issues. Its like a new major release OS. There will be issues. Its just that the temptation is so HUGE... ;D

I really want it for the video features. I am in the market for a new video iPod, but I would rather have the iPhone.

Maybe in a year the iPhone will have more capacity than just 8 Gigs...

[Popps]

They had an ongoing relationship with Cingular.

I know, it just kills me because I have my whole family (parents included) on Tmobile with me. I'd lose all of the mobile to mobile minutes, etc.

Funny thing is, I'm still considering it... just knowing how much my phone is integrated into my life/business, etc.

Like you said, the temptation is there. Some of it is justifiable, some of it is just that life is too short to look at crappy, dull pics of my baby when I could look at big, vivid, beautiful ones! :)

[COBronco 69]

I have a treo700w...it's a great PDA and a ****ty phone. Other carriers will get it. You want to use it datawise at 400kps....not AT&T's 14.4kbs(whatever speed it gets) network.

I ended up getting rid of my 700w and getting the 700wx. 100x better piece of equipment. Twice as much ram REALLY helps the phone out, multitasking is actually possible now as well.

[MileHighMagic]

Me, myself, I am **this close** to eating my contract with T-Mobile, just so I can get my hands on that liquid lightning in a bottle...

Me too. When is T-Mobile gonna carry the iPhone?

[Garcia Bronco]

I ended up getting rid of my 700w and getting the 700wx. 100x better piece of equipment. Twice as much ram REALLY helps the phone out, multitasking is actually possible now as well.

Somebody who feels my pain...did you throw down cash for that

[Garcia Bronco]

Yeah, I know. There will be issues. Its like a new major release OS. There will be issues. Its just that the temptation is so HUGE... ;D

I really want it for the video features. I am in the market for a new video iPod, but I would rather have the iPhone.

Maybe in a year the iPhone will have more capacity than just 8 Gigs...

IMO...8 gigs is for MP3's...which I can't stand to listen to. I can hear the quality difference.

[Crushaholic]

It's threads like this one that makes me feel old. I remember when you can just use a phone to *gasp* call somebody...Ha!

[SonOfLe-loLang]

The keyboard is very easy to get used to. It also auto corrects and is pretty damn accurate with that. When i first bought it i literally spent an hour and a half with the phone. It does that much and is that cool. The interface is like nothing else....incredible

[COBronco 69]

Somebody who feels my pain...did you throw down cash for that


Actually, I do alot of hobby work in a metal shop and my 700w ended up getting a ton of metal shavings/dust in it. And it stopped working real well. Then it started doing weird stuff all the time. I run my business from my phone and it was really pissing me off. So, after about two weeks of getting hacked off I gave it a toss- about 15 yards into a steel door. no more problems. I have a friend who is a verizon business rep and he got me a decent deal on the phone. Ended up costing me about 350. I wont take this one to the shop ;)

[enjolras]

The iPhone is quite cool, but it's VERY immature at this point. Try calling it while your surfing the EDGE network (all calls go to voicemail). Bluetooth is hopelessly crippled... it's virtually uncustomizable. The lack of 3rd party software is a real killer.

It's what I would honestly expect from Apple. It's insanely well designed, but the company as a whole knows very little about making phones.

What the phone HAS done is get the Nokia's of the world finally focusing on design and ergonomics. There are already serious iPhone competitors coming to market. The Prada phone and the Samsung F700 spring to mind. The Motorola Z8 is hugely cool as well.

One problem is that a lot of the very cool phones in the market have never seen release/distribution in the states. The Nokia N95 is awesome (much better camera than the iPhone, built-in GPS, other cool features)... they just don't exist here.

I can promise you that there are very cool phones (built from the ground-up as phones) coming to market. My job (I've been working in Smartphone software for several years) gives me pretty good insight into what's coming... going to be very interesting:)

[baja]

I know, it just kills me because I have my whole family (parents included) on Tmobile with me. I'd lose all of the mobile to mobile minutes, etc.

Funny thing is, I'm still considering it... just knowing how much my phone is integrated into my life/business, etc.

Like you said, the temptation is there. Some of it is justifiable, some of it is just that life is too short to look at crappy, dull pics of my baby when I could look at big, vivid, beautiful ones! :)


LOL I played around with a demo today in SD and if they were not sold out I might have bought one even though it will not work in Baja unless I want to pay 59 cents a minute.

[maher_tyler]

I think the PHONE is cool and all but i use phones to talk to people not to edit videos and all the other stuff it can do..you can pretty much buy a PC for the price of this phone..all i need is a good camera phone!!

[Popps]

It's funny, because this was the first Apple product I was honestly a little skeptical about in quite some time. But, after getting my hands on it today, it's apparent to me that the entire landscape for cellphones has just been altered, drastically. There's been a new bar set, and the ultimate winner is going to be the consumer... even if this isn't the phone you choose. Pretty crazy stuff. I mean, even 10 years ago, much less 20.... I couldn't have imagined a hand-held phone device doing what I saw this one doing today.

[OrangeShadow]

im hearing more and more good reviews but im waiting for the next version,hopefully my contract with verizon will be up by then

[maher_tyler]

im hearing more and more good reviews but im waiting for the next version,hopefully my contract with verizon will be up by then

I might actually use a different phone company if we had any others other than Verizon and Altell. I wonder if Cingular/At&T had to fork out a lot of cash for them to be the only company to have the IPhone for sale?? You would think Apple would want to let more companies sell it to make more money???

[baja]

I might actually use a different phone company if we had any others other than Verizon and Altell. I wonder if Cingular/At&T had to fork out a lot of cash for them to be the only company to have the IPhone for sale?? You would think Apple would want to let more companies sell it to make more money???

Ya I can't figure out why Apple would limit themselves to one company.

I asked the store manager what was the deal and he explained the contract with ATT was for 5 years and only covered the USA. Still that seems counter productive and gives a golden opportunity for other cell phone makers to have a strong incentive to fill the need that other signal providers will know have for a competitive phone.

[Popps]

Ya I can't figure out why Apple would limit themselves to one company.

I asked the store manager what was the deal and he explained the contract with ATT was for 5 years and only covered the USA. Still that seems counter productive and gives a golden opportunity for other cell phone makers to have a strong incentive to fill the need that other signal providers will know have for a competitive phone.

It must just be so lucrative that it made business sense. The one thing that's safe to assume is... Apple did their homework, here. I do know that one company (I believe Sprint) was close to a deal with Apple, but backed out, basically saying that Apple wanted too much. I'm assuming they GOT what they wanted with ATT, which I read involved a percentage of the plans sold... which means gobs and gobs of residual income, on top of the phones sold.

Early reports are saying that there were between 300K and 700K phones sold in the first few days... and Apple is estimated to be making a 55% profit on each. (After all production costs, etc.)

I'm with you, from the outside, it sure seems like selling them to everyone would be more lucrative. But, I'm guessing they're going to make out better with the deal they have in place with ATT.

As a long-time Apple fan/consumer, I feel a bit alienated... but, it's just business, and as a shareholder... I feel damned good about my stock that has doubled since Sept, and keeps going up. :)

[Garcia Bronco]

If Apple is taking a percentage of rate plans(which is almost too crazy to be true)...that could explain why AT&T is not sunsidizing the phone.

[RkyMtnThunder]

Hate to revive a dead thread, but I found this link earlier today that is applicable to this discussion..

Hidden costs of the iPhone:

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2007/07/whats-hidden-in-iphones-fine-print.html

all I can say is YIKES!

[baja]

Yep, welcome back back ma bell you are bigger and shiitier that ever

[Garcia Bronco]

Hate to revive a dead thread, but I found this link earlier today that is applicable to this discussion..

Hidden costs of the iPhone:

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2007/07/whats-hidden-in-iphones-fine-print.html

all I can say is YIKES!

It's an apple product. It's designed to shake every loose nickel and dime out of you, but many of those are charges you would get regardless of handheld

[Master___Pain]

It's an apple product. It's designed to shake every loose nickel and dime out of you, but many of those are charges you would get regardless of handheld

I read on a link from that blog that you can't use the IPhone to download songs from Itunes?!?! Um.....what?!

[Garcia Bronco]

I read on a link from that blog that you can't use the IPhone to download songs from Itunes?!?! Um.....what?!

While the apple PR machine is in full effect. They are having many problems getting these devices to work right. Which is understandable. anytime you implement something like that there are going to be issues. AT&T was just a bad carrier to do this with. Verizon or Sprint would have been much better from a data perspective.

I still haven't been able to find out how much memory this thing has. If it has 128 mb I would be surprised.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Have you ever looked at a cell phone bill period? They rip us off for everything. trust me, everything in that article is hardly unique to the iphone.

Speaking of, ive had mine for 2 weeks now and its been fantastic. No complaints. Great device.

[Master___Pain]

Have you ever looked at a cell phone bill period? They rip us off for everything. trust me, everything in that article is hardly unique to the iphone.

Speaking of, ive had mine for 2 weeks now and its been fantastic. No complaints. Great device.

So what about the Itunes thing? Can you download songs from the IPhone?

[Garcia Bronco]

Have you ever looked at a cell phone bill period? They rip us off for everything. trust me, everything in that article is hardly unique to the iphone.

Speaking of, ive had mine for 2 weeks now and its been fantastic. No complaints. Great device.

How much memory does it have?

[SonOfLe-loLang]

How much memory does it have?

8gig

[Beantown Bronco]

Have you ever looked at a cell phone bill period? They rip us off for everything. trust me, everything in that article is hardly unique to the iphone.

Which is exactly why I love my "pay as you go" plan with cingular....I'm averaging about $10-$12 per month now instead of the $40-$50 per month I was paying cingular under their "cheapest" conventional plan, after taxes and all the other garbage thrown in.

[RkyMtnThunder]

Have you ever looked at a cell phone bill period? They rip us off for everything. trust me, everything in that article is hardly unique to the iphone.

Speaking of, ive had mine for 2 weeks now and its been fantastic. No complaints. Great device.

As a Verizon customer and someone who is skeptical of cell phone billing procedures in general (yes, I pour over each bill)

....I cant say I relate to several of the issues listed on that blog.

[Garcia Bronco]

8gig

That's the amount of storage it has. Memory would be considered RAM or Flash, where as the 8gb or 4gb is storage. Like my 700w has 64 Mb storage and 25 MB of memory. Now the iPhone could use it's storage as memory, but it probably can't address all 8gig. The really haven't even perfected 8gig dimms for servers for example. I have looked around here and there and cannot find out the answers to this question.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

As a Verizon customer and someone who is skeptical of cell phone billing procedures in general (yes, I pour over each bill)

....I cant say I relate to several of the issues listed on that blog.

take a look at a sprint bill. In fact, just try dealing with sprint in general. They tried to f me over on a monthly basis.

If people want to hate on the iphone, don't buy it. I dont get all the hate. Its a really nice phone and im sure people waste money on worse. I dont waste it on cigarettes, bar tabs...etc, so i dropped money for something i use everyday. People need to get over it

[Garcia Bronco]

take a look at a sprint bill. In fact, just try dealing with sprint in general. They tried to f me over on a monthly basis.

If people want to hate on the iphone, don't buy it. I dont get all the hate. Its a really nice phone and im sure people waste money on worse. I dont waste it on cigarettes, bar tabs...etc, so i dropped money for something i use everyday. People need to get over it

I consider my 700w a waste of money.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

hehe i have so little that makes me happy in life, this actually does. don't hate

[RkyMtnThunder]

take a look at a sprint bill. In fact, just try dealing with sprint in general. They tried to f me over on a monthly basis.

If people want to hate on the iphone, don't buy it. I dont get all the hate. Its a really nice phone and im sure people waste money on worse. I dont waste it on cigarettes, bar tabs...etc, so i dropped money for something i use everyday. People need to get over it

Its not 'hating' on the iPhone. But the price of the phone itself coupled with the service provider chosen leads to several questions about overall value in general.


Sure, people drop money foolishly every day. And IMO the whole cell phone industry is a racket with all these gimicky plans and minute quotas.

That said, IMO this iPhone looks to take the whole cluster F that is cell phone/wireless service to a new level. Looks great for Apple and AT&T, but customer is taking it in the shorts

But as long as consumers are dazzled by a shiny new toy - they will continue to get away with bending us over.

iPhone aside..

Honestly, I dont understand why providers cant just offer flat fees. Once upon a time the internet used to be charged per minute access which got out of hand quickly for consumers and eventually that changed to hourly access rates - finally to unlimited monthly access rates.

The infastructure is there to provide unlimited monthly access for one flat fee. But why would the providers do this when they can get away with raping everyone instead?


I wish consumers could stage a boycott against cell phone service providers until they get off these gimicky bill rates. But we are all too hooked on the product to let it go even for one day

:-(

[Master___Pain]

I'm not hatin. I'm a gadget dude. I'm not going to get the IPhone anytime soon, I just got the 700wx in April and it's been a great device. I'm no apple fanboy, but I also don't hate them. I have a 30 gig video Ipod and a 1gig shuffle, but I got them both for free so I'm not complaining. If I was going to buy a device like the video Ipod, I would have got something from Archos. That's another topic though.

So, can you get itunes songs to download on the Iphone or not?

[Play2win]

I'm not hatin. I'm a gadget dude. I'm not going to get the IPhone anytime soon, I just got the 700wx in April and it's been a great device. I'm no apple fanboy, but I also don't hate them. I have a 30 gig video Ipod and a 1gig shuffle, but I got them both for free so I'm not complaining. If I was going to buy a device like the video Ipod, I would have got something from Archos. That's another topic though.

So, can you get itunes songs to download on the Iphone or not?

From what I understand, you can't download tunes directly to the iphone from the iphone (wifi/cell network), but you should be able to plug it in to your computer and synch to itunes like you would be able to do with any other ipod.

[Master___Pain]

From what I understand, you can't download tunes directly to the iphone from the iphone (wifi/cell network), but you should be able to plug it in to your computer and synch to itunes like you would be able to do with any other ipod.

Well, yeah. I figure you'd be able to do it the normal way. It seems like they may have missed the mark by not being able to download straight from the Iphone. I bet that get remedied soon though

[Maximus]

I'm not hatin. I'm a gadget dude. I'm not going to get the IPhone anytime soon, I just got the 700wx in April and it's been a great device. I'm no apple fanboy, but I also don't hate them. I have a 30 gig video Ipod and a 1gig shuffle, but I got them both for free so I'm not complaining. If I was going to buy a device like the video Ipod, I would have got something from Archos. That's another topic though.

So, can you get itunes songs to download on the Iphone or not?

Of course you can it's nothing more than a iPod with a phone product attached. I think the problems arise with iTunes Store for buying music. If you already have music ripped into itunes all you have to do is plug the phone up via usb and it will sync up.

[RkyMtnThunder]

I imagine side-loading is cheaper anyway...

[Dead Head]

Got an iPhone:

Great display, touch screen is amazing as well as the overall interface. At 800 dollars it was a rip-off. At 400, it's nicely priced. However, this is a product for music lovers/phone users. It's a not a business productivity product in the least. It does not sync with exchange. It can, but only if your company allows a certain kind of sync(imap) and with exchange 08 and really 03...it's just not done as much anymore. So you're left with syncing with OWA, which th eiPhone cannot do at this time. They could make it work tomorrow, but for whatever reason they won't.

[TDmvp]

I got a ipod touch ... cool $hit ...

[Domostick]

I bought mine a week after it came out and it was the most durable and the best phone I'd ever had. Until last week when I dropped it in the toilet.

[Meck77]

I have a motorola V265. $15.00 on ebay with accessories....Love it!

[TDmvp]

my girlfriend's sister dropped a blackberry in the toilet and it stayed there overnight !!! .... next day she found it dried it for a few hours sitting if front of a hair drier and it WORKED FINE i was friggen shocked ...
I love the i phone and ipod touchs screens tho .... seems to do great vs scratchs .... glass not plastic ... i use my touch basically as a pda .... i didn't want to mess with iphones bill lol

[Dead Head]

my girlfriend's sister dropped a blackberry in the toilet and it stayed there overnight !!! .... next day she found it dried it for a few hours sitting if front of a hair drier and it WORKED FINE i was friggen shocked ...
I love the i phone and ipod touchs screens tho .... seems to do great vs scratchs .... glass not plastic ... i use my touch basically as a pda .... i didn't want to mess with iphones bill lol

I wash gig sticks all the time and they still work with no data corruption. I've washed a bluetooth head set and it still worked.

[TDmvp]

I wash gig sticks all the time and they still work with no data corruption. I've washed a bluetooth head set and it still worked.

LOL yea man been there .... everything ends up in the washer LOL ... glad my laptop dont fit in a pocket LOL

[Orange_Beard]

Bought one right after the price drop.

Love the thing. Can't believe how great it works.

I used to switch about every 4 or 5 months, from Palm to Pocket PC and back. This is the first one of these devices that I have ever been happy with.

I was "skeptical" about the bill. I though for sure I would get smacked with Hidden costs. I us it on the internet all the time. The web works great.

[Domostick]

The problem is with the iphone you can't take out the battery so even though I let it dry, some water was still in there and shorted out the screen. The phone still turns on and is under warranty so I can just get the screen fixed for free. The water sensor didn't change colors either.

The iphone is a great device though, my monthly phone bill is around $130 with two lines and that is including the $40 iphone data plan with unlimited internet and text.

[TDmvp]

best moble browser i have ever seen

[Dead Head]

Bought one right after the price drop.

Love the thing. Can't believe how great it works.

I used to switch about every 4 or 5 months, from Palm to Pocket PC and back. This is the first one of these devices that I have ever been happy with.

I was "skeptical" about the bill. I though for sure I would get smacked with Hidden costs. I us it on the internet all the time. The web works great.

That's the best part....I dropped my rate plan expenditures in half and I get the same product with a little less speed (BFD). The browser is on point, I just wish it did full java and flash. Oh well

[Orange_Beard]

That's the best part....I dropped my rate plan expenditures in half and I get the same product with a little less speed (BFD). The browser is on point, I just wish it did full java and flash. Oh well

I was on the Blackberry Pearl before the iPhone. (at the time I was the Admin of a BES) The email was great. The phone worked great. Web was unusable. The keyboard drove me crazy.

I was paying 120 a month. OUCH!

[Dead Head]

I was on the Blackberry Pearl before the iPhone. (at the time I was the Admin of a BES) The email was great. The phone worked great. Web was unusable. The keyboard drove me crazy.

I was paying 120 a month. OUCH!

I was at 150.

With MS's new exchange in 08(and really in 03 as well), BB's are going to have a hard time to compete. There is no additional BES lic to purchase. It's included in exchange. Except for people that just won't give up the BB's, I think you'll see more people go to MS-mobile devices.

[OrangeShadow]

I got the Ipod touch and its AMAZING

[TDmvp]

I got the Ipod touch and its AMAZING

/agree

[WyoLaw]

I am thinking about getting either the Blackberry Pearl or the new LG Voyager. Any ideas either way? I'm not very technically savy....

[Dead Head]

Blackbeery makes a solid PDA/Phone. LG is decent IMO, but I haven't seen the voyager yet.

[alkemical]

I'm getting the att tilt

[The MVPlaya]

I guess you can say I specialize in mobile devices.

WyoLaw, the pearl and the voyager are 2 phones in different classes. BB is more of a "PDA" and the Voyager is more of...well a cellphone. Depends what you really need in a phone.

With Pearl you'll be paying 30 dollars a month for unlimited data and email and with the Voyager it is only 15 dollars.

It depends what you need, but as some of you are praising the BB's are great devices. They've been selling great this season, up to par with the iPhone, even though they have a higher data plan!

[WyoLaw]

MVPlaya, thanks for the info. So you are saying if one is basically looking for just a cellphone one should go with the LG Voyager? I was thinking about adding a blackberry, but I'm not sure I would use it for what it is meant to be used for. I probably just need to stick with a standard cellphone. Thank you very much.

[Orange_Beard]

I would just add from my experience, that if you are more into email nothing beats the blackberry.

[The MVPlaya]

MVPlaya, thanks for the info. So you are saying if one is basically looking for just a cellphone one should go with the LG Voyager? I was thinking about adding a blackberry, but I'm not sure I would use it for what it is meant to be used for. I probably just need to stick with a standard cellphone. Thank you very much.

If you're looking for a standard cellphone I'd go with the Voyager. People pay 30 dollars for the BB so they can use the push email, and and all the extra things you can put on a BB, since there are many 3rd party software that you can download (some of which are very useful).

If you do go with the Voyager, definitely get the vcast package!

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I was one of those morons that waited in line for the iphone, but i must say, if i could marry it, i would. It's such a great piece of technology and really is like a handheld computer. Haven't had any problems with it and recommend it 100 percent.

[The MVPlaya]

I was one of those morons that waited in line for the iphone, but i must say, if i could marry it, i would. It's such a great piece of technology and really is like a handheld computer. Haven't had any problems with it and recommend it 100 percent.

I don't think I've ever met anyone with the iPhone that wouldn't recommend it. Haha

[baja]

There are rumors that the i phone can be made to work on systems other than ATT, does anyone know if this is true? Namely Tel Cell.

[OrangeShadow]

I only got the 8GB and still have 2 GBs left with my whole music collection on it. Wi-fi is spotty at my house and work but when you have a good signal its fantastic!

[Jason in LA]

I wash gig sticks all the time and they still work with no data corruption. I've washed a bluetooth head set and it still worked.


I washed one of my memory cards by accident once. Works fine, and the photos were still good. I'm glad I didn't lose those images. ;D

[SonOfLe-loLang]

There are rumors that the i phone can be made to work on systems other than ATT, does anyone know if this is true? Namely Tel Cell.

there are companies that do that i think, but apple has been known to send iphone updates that disable any phones that have alterations. They are now called ibricks.

[MileHighMagic]

I got an unlocked (T-Mobile) 8GB iphone on Ebay. Works fine, just cannot update Itunes. The hackers will figure out how to get around the Ibrick stuff to sotware unlock everytime.

Also got a sweet skin cover. Black iskin revo or something. Looks like what I would imagine Batman's phone looks like.

Edit** Here is a pic I found.
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/525/img00121rr1.jpg

[Boltjolt]

There are rumors that the i phone can be made to work on systems other than ATT, does anyone know if this is true? Namely Tel Cell.

See em all the time on ebay. They claim they will work with other carriers like t mobile and such. Tells you what not to do so you wont lose the hacked software. T mobile i think ids the only other carrier that uses sim cards.

I dont have a iphone, just a iPod touch. The thing is great and i have hacked it so i have many other apps on it.