Would You be happy with Calvin Johnson

[konnorrollison]

Would You be happy with Calvin Johnson if we traded down to the Detroit pick?

[Clockwork Orange]

Very.

[theAPAOps5]

Depends on what we had to trade to get him. I was in and out of the office but I think I heard Alfred Williams on fan 950 say something like our 1, 2nd, and a 3rd this year and something from next year as well for the number 2. I think that is too much but again I didn't hear it all.

[Crushaholic]

absolutely not...

We went offense last year, so now the emphasis needs to be on defense...unless it's a OT to protect Cutler.

[DBruleU]

Cutler to Johnson for the next decade or so....uh yeah, I can live with that.

[Kaylore]

Since you attached no qualifiers to your question, I picked yes. Yes, I would be happy with one of the best receiver prospects in almost a decade.

[Clockwork Orange]

Do people remember what Randy Moss did when he came into the league? I know that it tends to get pushed aside because of all the bull**** he's pulled since, but his immediate impact was nothing short of phenomenal. Calvin Johnson has to potential to have that kind of impact right away.

I like to gamble, so I have no problem rolling the dice on that kind of greatness.

[baja]

What was that deal someone posted earlier, we give a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and next year's first.

[Drek]

No. I want no part of a 6'5", 4.37 running, hands of glue WR who is bigger, stronger, and faster than any WR the league has ever saw. Plus he's very dedicated to football and a class act.

Why would we want a guy like that?

[Crushaholic]

If it were this time last year, I would have said yes. However, we already have a young group of receivers I'm comfortable with. The only reason to pick up Calvin is if Rod Smith is definitely retiring this year. Otherwise, I don't want to give Johnson the big contract.

[Hotrod]

As crazy as it sounds I'd rather not. We'd have to pay way to much for him. If we were sitting at 2 give me Gaines

[Clockwork Orange]

Can you imagine the matchup problems the Broncos would present with CJ on one side, Walker on the other, Graham & Scheffler at TE and Travis Henry in the backfield?

Oh yeah, then there's that rocket armed kid under center.

Hoo baby.

[Odysseus]

I think the one thing the Broncos have been missing outside an elite pass rush is something that goes boom on offense. How do you replace a hall of fame TE? You don't. You have to build one.

If the Broncos pay too much for him I'm cool with it. There are a lot of wins with that move. A lot more than I am listing.

1. Your defense stays fresh because you can grind it out. We get up on teams and force them to pass. You can win with a lesser defense for now.
2. Your quarterback's learning curve goes flat. No sophmore issues.
3. You always go for 7 points. You expect to score 7 instead of hope.
4. Your running game is wide open.
5. Your TE is suddenly open underneath almost at will.
6. Our recievers will be the best in the league
7. Our OL would suddenly look really good.

NOBODY is going to let this happen. It would be a draft day miracle. Saint Michael of Shanahan would seen hovering above the field. No way.

I say ante up and get the guy....or have him say he smokes crack....a lot.

[Jason7730]

uh, yeah!!

[Clockwork Orange]

He never had anything resembling a top notch QB throwing him passes in college and he was still dominant.

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/cory_mccartney/08/29/gatech.johnson/T1_CJohnson2_USP.jpg

[RaiderH8r]

It would certainly open up my afternoon on Draft Saturday if we made that move. The wife might actually expect me to...you know...do something around the house.

As a player on the squad, absolutely. But looking at our overall scenario of needs it becomes a bit tougher. Ah, what the hell. At the very least we'd get a lot more prime time exposure with the Cutler and Calvin TD Factory. The Colts have done pretty admirably running up scores and I have more faith that our FO and staff can make some adjustments to cope with our need areas...Al's release not withstanding.

I also read somewhere that Bates may be inclined to stand relatively pat on the D side and play a season with the current personnel to get a true understanding of what his need areas are.

Whatever, I'm just giddy with anticipation for this weekend.

Oh....and F the Gints.

[NFLBRONCO]

Randy Moss ability with more desire to play YES YES YES

[Turf Shaman]

If the Broncos made that trade with the word out that they want Calvin Johnson, the Raiders will take him. You know they will. Makes you wonder if it's another red herring by Shanahan and he's got someone else in mind.

[yerner]

If this happens I seriously think Shanny has lost his mind.

[DeusExManning]

If the Broncos made that trade with the word out that they want Calvin Johnson, the Raiders will take him. You know they will. Makes you wonder if it's another red herring by Shanahan and he's got someone else in mind.

Shanny is forcing Al to draft Johnson, to stop them from getting Russell. Shanny you are very clever.

[Popcorn Sutton]

Trade a third for Kris Jenkins and the 1st,2nd,3rd and next years 1st for Calvin Johnson... considering he is being touted as a once in a generation prospect.

I'm in.

[Popcorn Sutton]

If the Broncos made that trade with the word out that they want Calvin Johnson, the Raiders will take him. You know they will. Makes you wonder if it's another red herring by Shanahan and he's got someone else in mind.

The article talking about this in the Denver Post said the trade with Detroit would be contingent on the Raiders pick.

[Odysseus]

Can you imagine the matchup problems the Broncos would present with CJ on one side, Walker on the other, Graham & Scheffler at TE and Travis Henry in the backfield?

Oh yeah, then there's that rocket armed kid under center.

Hoo baby.

I don't think we have a prayer of getting this guy. Are you serious? The NFL is going to allow the Broncos to draft this guy? The whole known world will have to be re mapped. Our teams entire genetic makeup just took a quantum leap.

If we get this guy we are going to have to do a Ricky Williams to get this guy but ultimately you are buying four quality years with an option to extend.

You will help Cutler's growth. You will help the offense mature and stabilize. Defense is going to suffer but maybe the plus up at Special Teams will give us a spark now and again.

Picking up this guy would solve a lot of problems.

[Rohirrim]

Even a contrarian like me isn't going to say no to that. It's impossible to say no. But I give you a 99% guarantee, if Shanahan traded up to #2, Greasy Al would take CJ. Of course, then the Broncos could take Gaines or Thomas. it's all good.

[Clockwork Orange]

Even a contrarian like me isn't going to say no to that. It's impossible to say no. But I give you a 99% guarantee, if Shanahan traded up to #2, Greasy Al would take CJ. Of course, then the Broncos could take Gaines or Thomas. it's all good.

If there is a deal made, no way it officially goes down until the Lions are on the clock after the Fade have selected Jamarcus Russell.

[Beantown Bronco]

A great offense can overcome a mediocre defense. Just look at Indy last year.....they had the worst run defense in history and managed to win the SuperBowl. The Broncos had a defense ranked somewhere around 10th depending on whether you value yardage against or points scored against, and they just picked up one of the best defensive coordinators in the business.

I'd certainly prefer not to give up next year's first rounder to make it happen, though.

[MechanicalBull]

Even a contrarian like me isn't going to say no to that. It's impossible to say no. But I give you a 99% guarantee, if Shanahan traded up to #2, Greasy Al would take CJ. Of course, then the Broncos could take Gaines or Thomas. it's all good.

I think even a trade with Tampa moving up to #2 would still have to wait until the Raiders are off the clock. Detroit might have deals on the table but it all depends on who the Raiders take.

[konnorrollison]

we could wait tell draft day to see if Chokeland takes Russell and then we trade for the #2 or if they take Calvin just stay put a #21

[Odysseus]

Even a contrarian like me isn't going to say no to that. It's impossible to say no. But I give you a 99% guarantee, if Shanahan traded up to #2, Greasy Al would take CJ. Of course, then the Broncos could take Gaines or Thomas. it's all good.

There is no way the Broncos get this guy but the pressure Broncos are putting on the Raiders at every turn is priceless regardless of what happens.

[Garcia Bronco]

No...wide receiver in the top 10 is just a stupid pick. They don't get enough touches. We need densive LB, DT, DE and Saftey before we even begin to think about WR.

[Garcia Bronco]

Do people remember what Randy Moss did when he came into the league? I know that it tends to get pushed aside because of all the bull**** he's pulled since, but his immediate impact was nothing short of phenomenal. Calvin Johnson has to potential to have that kind of impact right away.

I like to gamble, so I have no problem rolling the dice on that kind of greatness.

I would rather trade for Fitzgerald....who IMO is a better receiver on college talent. :)

[That One Guy]

After just reading the Mike Williams thread from back in '05, too much of a risk. If something happened and he failed, you've just set the franchise back 2 or 3 years. Kinda the type of setback that Tampa got in trading all those picks for Gruden. You can build a strong TEAM with no draft picks.

[Clockwork Orange]

After just reading the Mike Williams thread from back in '05, too much of a risk.

There is absolutely no comparison between Calvin Johnson and Mike Williams. None.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

In the abstract, yes. For the rumored offer? No, too much to give up for one player.

[ScottXray]

So HOW many years did Peyton "choke" cause his teams defense
wasn't quite good enough and the playoffs mean you go against GOOD, to great, defenses.

CJ will be a great receiver....(probably...)...but we need to start to fix the DEFENSE, starting with the D-line and Linebackers. We also need to look at Saftey, O-line AND WR.

Selling out virtually our whole draft, and maybe our first next year, to get one player , even one that good, will set the team back MORE than it will improve it.

PASS RUSH.

ARGHHH!

[yerner]

New Englands front office would never make this deal. Would they?

[U GOT JACKED UP]

How can anyone say that they wouldn't want this guy. The only two WR's we can depend on for the future is Marshall and Javon. I don't think Stokely will be on the team long and Rod will retire. Hopefully shanny can make the deal. Keep one of our thirds, hopefully the top one, and take best DE available. (Quentin Moses)

[Hotrod]

How can anyone say that they wouldn't want this guy. The only two WR's we can depend on for the future is Marshall and Javon. I don't think Stokely will be on the team long and Rod will retire. Hopefully shanny can make the deal. Keep one of our thirds, hopefully the top one, and take best DE available. (Quentin Moses)

Ok if we spent all that on CJ I would hope the other 3rd was for Jenkins.......but still not thanks

[Dukes]

I can handle waiting one more year for a impact player on D if it means getting Calvin. We would have a top 3 Offense. Don't get me excited with all these hopes and dreams!

[DenverDuo]

I'd be a little dissappointed, but I'd deal with it. The more tools we can give to Cutler, the better.

I'm wondering how Javon Walker would take it.

[bdv]

I'd be a little disappointed, but I'd deal with it. The more tools we can give to Cutler, the better.

As good as everyone is saying this guy is, I think I'd get over it too. I'd be really ambivalent, though. ???


I'm wondering how Javon Walker would take it.
He may get less passes, but he'll never get double teamed. He'd be wide open all the time. My WR concern would be Brandon Marshal's development. Would Marshal make a good #3 WR?

[That One Guy]

There is absolutely no comparison between Calvin Johnson and Mike Williams. None.

Dominated in college
Considered a lock for future pro-bowls, likely making a difference in their first year
Physical specimen
Caught everything thrown his way
Team players who always give it full effort

Those are being said about CJ just the way they were apparently said about Mike Williams. The only major difference being the whole debacle with Williams leaving school too early but since he was such an early pick, that obviously didn't cause too many doubters. Obviously since we know how Mike Williams has turned out, CJ fans will be trying to seperate the two. They seem a lot alike to me.

[Cool Breeze]

Happy? Yes
Cost too much? Yes

[Master___Pain]

Dominated in college
Considered a lock for future pro-bowls, likely making a difference in their first year
Physical specimen
Caught everything thrown his way
Team players who always give it full effort

Those are being said about CJ just the way they were apparently said about Mike Williams. The only major difference being the whole debacle with Williams leaving school too early but since he was such an early pick, that obviously didn't cause too many doubters. Obviously since we know how Mike Williams has turned out, CJ fans will be trying to seperate the two. They seem a lot alike to me.

I'm no CJ shill but they are not really comparable. One had a great college QB throwing to him, while having 15 first day selections playing on the same team. One had Reggie Ball throwing to him. One is slow, the other ran a 4.35 in a strangers shoes. Mike Williams was a tub of goo when he was drafted because of sitting out a year. Similar because they are tall WRs, yes. That's about it.

All that said, I don't think the broncos need to mortgage their draft for a WR.

[AboveAverage]

I always see the constant debate on here which usually boils down to:

1. Stockpiling picks

vs.

2. Trading picks for proven players/moving up for elite players in the draft

I think both can work, and I don't believe either is the only way to succeed at constructing a great team. Obviously there are so many variables.

In this scenario however, I'm willing to break the bank on CJ. I truly believe he will be an ELITE player. An IMPACT guy, just like we acquired last year with Cutler. I mean, just imagine the weapons we would have at our disposal. Jay under center, Walker, CJ, Marshall, and Rod at WR. My God talk about going 4 deep at that position. We already have two quality tight ends, as well as a shiny new RB capable of 1,500 yards.

Now, the defense might suffer with all the attention/money paid to the offense. And ya know, I'm not going to complain about that. We won two Super Bowls with most of our impact players being on the offensive side of the ball, with a mediocre to above average defense. It can be done.

And besides, chicks dig the long ball.

[worm]

Denver needs playmakers. Not decent players...not solid players.....but playmakers.

CJ is as close to a sure thing as there is in this draft.

You take him if you can get him.

I can imagine that this is putting pressure on more than the Raiders...I bet the Bucs are squirming as are the Redskins and probably a few others.

Detroit should be thanking Denver..as the value of #2 most likely just went up with this becoming public.

[Bob]

After just reading the Mike Williams thread from back in '05, too much of a risk. If something happened and he failed, you've just set the franchise back 2 or 3 years. Kinda the type of setback that Tampa got in trading all those picks for Gruden. You can build a strong TEAM with no draft picks.

We have someone who can throw to him. So, yeah it is a risk, and I know I should have learned from Ditka's experince, But I can't help it. This guy does seem like a freak of nature.

If you has a 50% chance of drafting the next Jerry Rice -- would you throw caution to the wind.

[That One Guy]

I'm no CJ shill but they are not really comparable. One had a great college QB throwing to him, while having 15 first day selections playing on the same team. One had Reggie Ball throwing to him. One is slow, the other ran a 4.35 in a strangers shoes. Mike Williams was a tub of goo when he was drafted because of sitting out a year. Similar because they are tall WRs, yes. That's about it.

All that said, I don't think the broncos need to mortgage their draft for a WR.

I would never have compared the two prior to reading over the '05 article on Williams. While Williams didn't have a great 40 speed, he was repeatedly cited for his football speed - and I don't know how many times I've heard folks say that 40 times are pointless, it's all about game speed. And as for their teams, another thing about Williams that was cited is that he stood out against top competition on a national championship team... it's easy to stand out when you're the only player worth a darn, it's a bit harder to stand out when your whole team is essentially gift wrapped for their trip to the NFL. I don't know anything about how ready Williams showed up after the draft but the same article was citing his work ethic and good character in that year off. Apparently at the time, before hindsight was available, he was far from a ball of goo and a worthless individual. I'm not saying they're the exact same type of player, I don't know enough about either of them to make that assessment. I'm simply saying that the same type of praise is being thrown at CJ as was thrown Mike Williams' way a couple years ago.

And for the record, CJ said on... Cold Pizza I believe it was, that those shoes were actually his and he had loaned em out. I know the story was they were borrowed shoes but that's what I recall seeing on one of those shows when they interviewed him.

[worm]

To think....the Raiders could easily have had Jay Cutler throwing to Calvin Johnson......

I would love nothing more than to have Greasy Al have to watch that TD connection for the rest of his life happening in Denver instead of Oakland.

[Turf Shaman]

Even if the trade is contigent on CJ being available at #2, I think the rumours may have clinched the Raiders taking him.

[That One Guy]

We have someone who can throw to him. So, yeah it is a risk, and I know I should have learned from Ditka's experince, But I can't help it. This guy does seem like a freak of nature.

If you has a 50% chance of drafting the next Jerry Rice -- would you throw caution to the wind.

If we had the team we had before last years' draft, yes I would say you do it. But to take such a risk when we've just went out and picked up all the players we did in FA... that's just too much of a risk for me when there's only gonna be one ball on the field at a time. We have our #1 WR locked up... a competition of Marshall and Rod will leave us with a decent #2.. then you have a promising TE group in Scheffler and Graham... our #3 should be set between all those WRs left over after the Marshall/Smith battle is determined. It's just too much of a risk we don't need to take right now. We need a few more very good players, we don't need to throw it all away for playmakers. We have a couple of those.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Too much of a risk we don't need to take? If we canget CJ, get him. He's a star in the making. Do we need to list the nuimber of broncos 2nd round and 3rd round busts again. CJ is a DIFFERENCE maker

[That One Guy]

Even if the trade is contigent on CJ being available at #2, I think the rumours may have clinched the Raiders taking him.

I think I saw, maybe on PFT, that a deal with Russell is expected before Saturday. I'd like to know how serious they are on those negotiations. Last year I don't think anyone knew much before it was leaked that Williams had signed with the Texans. I'd like to think Crazy Al already had his mind set on Russell.

[AboveAverage]

To think....the Raiders could easily have had Jay Cutler throwing to Calvin Johnson......


That (scary) thought had never really crossed my mind.

I really need to stop thinking about the possibility of acquiring CJ. The chances are still slim and I don't want to be disappointed. I can't help myself though. Come on Mike.

[That One Guy]

Too much of a risk we don't need to take? If we canget CJ, get him. He's a star in the making. Do we need to list the nuimber of broncos 2nd round and 3rd round busts again. CJ is a DIFFERENCE maker

Every #1 overall pick is expected to be a difference maker... hell, every first round pick is essentially expected to be a difference maker. If anyone thought the player they were gonna pick wouldn't be, they wouldn't pick them. Just because he's getting a lot of hype and has done well in the past doesn't turn the draft into science.

[Turf Shaman]

I think I saw, maybe on PFT, that a deal with Russell is expected before Saturday. I'd like to know how serious they are on those negotiations. Last year I don't think anyone knew much before it was leaked that Williams had signed with the Texans. I'd like to think Crazy Al already had his mind set on Russell.

Hmm... if they work out a deal that could change things. I'm skeptical that it'll happen regardless. Apparently Tampa wants CJ and they can offer the #4 pick.

[That One Guy]

Imagine how insane the bidding war could get for CJ if Russell is announced on Friday night like last year. The Lions essentially can't take him so that opens a bidding war that could get out of hand with so much time to consider options and make moves.

[yerner]

<TABLE cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top height=30><TD class=tablemed>Calvin Johnson
WR (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/position?id=1) | (6'5", 239, 4.38) | GEORGIA TECH (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/school?id=2189)

Scouts Grade: 99</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=tablemed cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR vAlign=center height=18><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!---Insider promo---><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=tablesm align=middle bgColor=#ececec colSpan=2><TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=tablemed2 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR><TD>Strengths: Possesses exceptional overall physical tools. Is tall, well-built and strong. Displays rare speed and athletic ability for his size. He shows good initial burst and almost never gets caught up at the line of scrimmage. Is a smooth athlete that runs fluid routes. Displays the ability to consistently separate from double-coverage and is the type of receiver that can take over a game. He has big hands and exceptional leaping ability to consistently win the jump-ball. Not afraid to go over the middle and will make plenty of catches in traffic. Does a great job of adjusting to the ball in the air and will make the diving catch. He gets in and out of breaks without needing to gear down. He's a flexible athlete that can spin and twist his way out of traffic. Shows excellent sideline awareness and will make the acrobatic catch. His balance and body control are remarkable, especially for his size.

Weaknesses: Will lose focus at times. Has dropped too many passes trying to get up the field before securing the ball. He will become frustrated on occasion when not involved, which leads to him disappearing from some games. Still can improve his craftiness as a route runner in terms of setting up defenders and using double moves. He has been mostly durable throughout his career but did battle a nagging leg injury early in 2006 season.

Overall: Johnson started from day-one as a true freshman for all 12 of Georgia Tech's games in 2004 and caught 48 passes for 837 yards (17.4 average) and seven touchdowns, earning a unanimous first-team All-ACC selection from the media, and ACC Freshman of the Year honors. Johnson was forced to sit-out the second half of the season finale in the Champs Sports Bowl against Syracuse because of a knee injury. In 2005, he once again started all 12 games, hauling in 54 passes for 888 yards (16.4 average) and six touchdowns and was named first-team All-American by the coaches. In 2006, the ACC Player of the Year and Biletnikoff Award Winner (nation's top receiver) started all 14 games, and caught 76 passes for 1,202 yards (15.8 average) and 15 touchdowns. The only real knock on Johnson is his inconsistent focus, which occasionally leads to dropped passes and him disappearing in games. In all reality, though, he has been the most physically gifted receiver in college football since his true freshman in 2004. He possesses freakish natural ability, including a rare combination of size, speed and leaping ability. Johnson has been amazingly productive despite a marginal quarterback throwing to him throughout his career, not to mention constant double-and-triple team coverage. He also put up the rare workout measurables to match his production and skill set. Simply put; he possesses the natural ability of Randy Moss and Terrell Owens but without their character baggage. Even though Johnson does not project to be the top overall player taken in the 2007 draft, we believe he is the premier prospect.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[chaz]

If it were this time last year, I would have said yes. However, we already have a young group of receivers I'm comfortable with. The only reason to pick up Calvin is if Rod Smith is definitely retiring this year. Otherwise, I don't want to give Johnson the big contract.

so you don't want calvin based on rod coming back for ONE more season?! what about after that? there wont be another calvin next year...its now or never...

[chaz]

I think the one thing the Broncos have been missing outside an elite pass rush is something that goes boom on offense.

NOBODY is going to let this happen. It would be a draft day miracle. Saint Michael of Shanahan would seen hovering above the field. No way.

I say ante up and get the guy....or have him say he smokes crack....a lot.

exactly!! reminds me a little bit of last year when everyone said we should trade up for reggie bush...everyone wants that incredible talent. But if there is any truth to this it would be just unbelievable. cutler to johnson would just be pretty.

[Killericon]

If he falls to us(HAH), yes.

If we trade up to maybe #6 to get him, yes.

If we trade to a top 5 pick, then no. It'll cost too much, and our defense needs restocking.

[Cito Pelon]

absolutely not...

We went offense last year, so now the emphasis needs to be on defense...unless it's a OT to protect Cutler.

That's what I say also.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I'd do a naked Mexican hat dance on Shanny's front lawn if we landed CJ.

[ohiobronco2]

If he falls to us(HAH), yes.

If we trade up to maybe #6 to get him, yes.

If we trade to a top 5 pick, then no. It'll cost too much, and our defense needs restocking.


I agree completely. He is going to be one hell of a talent. I look at all of the possibilities in those first few picks and I wonder who will be throwing the ball to CJ. The funny thing is I feel there aren't any teams picking in the top ten that I feel has a qb with adequate arm strength besides Vick and maybe Leinhart. I feel that we are already fairly strong on offense and need to concentrate on D. I think we should sit back and see which top notch D talent begins to fall and move up if necessary to around pick 10. If Landry, Willis, Anderson, Branch and Carriker are gone by then, I say trade with Chicago and try to acquire picks 31, 37 and their forth for our 1st and 2nd. Where we could target both Moss and Harris. Bottom line, sh*t or get off the pot.

[azbroncfan]

After just reading the Mike Williams thread from back in '05, too much of a risk. If something happened and he failed, you've just set the franchise back 2 or 3 years. Kinda the type of setback that Tampa got in trading all those picks for Gruden. You can build a strong TEAM with no draft picks.

You just lost all credibility comparing Williams to CJ. Williams was labeled a potential bust because he was SLOW.

[Cito Pelon]

Calvin Johnson may turn out to have a productive NFL career, much like Keyshawn Johnson, but is that worth moving up to a top-five pick? I say no. If the team was already in the top-five, maybe he's worth it. But to pay the price to move up that high? No.

I don't think any WR is worth that much sacrifice. An RB, an OT, a QB, maybe an LB, S, DE. Again, if the team was already in the top-five, sure, depending on whether or not you need a QB, RB, OT more than a WR, maybe you want to grab a WR that can produce like a Keyshawn Johnson year after year after year. But to move up that high for a WR? No.

[ohiobronco2]

Calvin Johnson may turn out to have a productive NFL career, much like Keyshawn Johnson, but is that worth moving up to a top-five pick? I say no. If the team was already in the top-five, maybe he's worth it. But to pay the price to move up that high? No.

I don't think any WR is worth that much sacrifice. An RB, an OT, a QB, maybe an LB, S, DE. Again, if the team was already in the top-five, sure, depending on whether or not you need a QB, RB, OT more than a WR, maybe you want to grab a WR that can produce like a Keyshawn Johnson year after year after year. But to move up that high for a WR? No.

A WR with elite talent is only a success if he is in the right system and has an excellent QB throwing the ball to him. I personally feel like QB, D line and O line are the only positions worth trading so many picks for. I have a fear of putting all of our eggs in one basket, eventhough this kid looks to be a sure fire talent with high character to go with it.

[Paladin]

Not now, grasshopper. ***Itt says price higher than just picks given; price includes picks lost.......

[Paladin]

I'd do a naked Mexican hat dance on Shanny's front lawn if we landed CJ.

And give us 45 minutes to draw a crowd?????

[Bob]

I'd do a naked Mexican hat dance on Shanny's front lawn if we landed CJ.

Which I am sure he would show his appreciation for your dancing skills by escorting you with the men in blue.

[azbroncfan]

I would be happy to get CJ but realize it is a move for the future as there won't be much improvement on the D if CJ is picked.

[chaz]

I would be happy to get CJ but realize it is a move for the future as there won't be much improvement on the D if CJ is picked.

true, but we'd still have another third with the proposed deal, which could maybe get us a kris jenkins or if not a paul solai...CJ and Jenkins on day 1 wouldnt be too bad in my eyes!

as for the D, they might not get as much better as they potentially could, but they'd have another 7 points or so to give up every game which does help them...they wont be trying to defend the anemic offense we saw for the majority of last year

[azbroncfan]

true, but we'd still have another third with the proposed deal, which could maybe get us a kris jenkins or if not a paul solai...CJ and Jenkins on day 1 wouldnt be too bad in my eyes!

as for the D, they might not get as much better as they potentially could, but they'd have another 7 points or so to give up every game which does help them...they wont be trying to defend the anemic offense we saw for the majority of last year

The O will have so many new parts there is no way to determine if they will be bad, good, great, next best thing since Colts. The season will most likely come down to a drive by an opponent in the playoffs or playoff hunt with the D needing a stop. That is how I have a feeling and I'm not too confident in the D.

[Kaylore]

I'd do a naked Mexican hat dance on Shanny's front lawn if we landed CJ.

...is that good?

[chaz]

The O will have so many new parts there is no way to determine if they will be bad, good, great, next best thing since Colts. The season will most likely come down to a drive by an opponent in the playoffs or playoff hunt with the D needing a stop. That is how I have a feeling and I'm not too confident in the D.

or its week 17, we need to win to get into the playoffs and were down by 5 with 2 min. on the clock....then who wants CJ!? the argument can go both ways...bottomline is you need difference makers, no matter what side of the ball they are on, you need guys that are going to help you win

[Requiem]

I'm not sure how long this response is going to be, but I'm going to my best to give my thoughts from a business perspective in football, and perhaps some my personal thoughts as well. Bear with me. This is just what I feel, and some of what SoCal and I have talked about off of the Mane. The rumor/development is really mind boggling, but then again, does it really surprise you?

Off I go. . .

Obviously, the Broncos have needs. Defensive line needs, a question at linebacker, safety is a concern and the offensive line could use an upgrade at tackle. Also, wide receiver, regardless of what the fans try to say, is obviously an area of concern, given the fact we're interested in shipping away one full draft (almost) and a future first for Calvin Johnson and have been rumored to show interest in other receivers as well.

Again, regardless of what most of the people who post here think and who want a complete defensive line overhaul, it does not happen in one year. It cannot happen in one year. Even with the "Saturation Theory" in the draft, it cannot happen in one year. It's going to take several years to improve our defensive line, and outside another big space-eating tackle, I do believe the Broncos feel confident in who they have at defensive end for the year being. It's a decent crew, but there is no stand out guy. It seems that the Broncos are interested in upgrading, but it's not as high of a priority as some might seem.

I've been making a few phone calls over the past week, and this Johnson rumor was really interesting as it came up the other day. Before, all I knew is that Denver was still exploring moving up the board, but how far was the question. Now it seems, nothing can hold them back from doing what they want to do. As far as the trade goes, it's contingent on two things. The Raiders have to select Russell, and according to PFW and a few other sources, it seems like the Raiders will have a contract with them by this Friday night, much like the Mario Williams deal last year.

Secondly, the Lions have to decide whether or not it's worth it from their perspective (believe me, from a value standpoint - the Broncos are giving up enough) and the kicker is, moving down to #21 might put them out of contention of who they really want. However, they can move up with the additional picks if a guy they want ends up being there.

The Lions might be better suited taking what Tampa Bay has to offer. Their first four day picks this year. It's a good offer, because Detroit moves down only two spots, but still gets a bunch of picks in return, but they do not get that extra first in value.

Tampa Bay is offering. . .

#4, #35, #64, #68 = 2870.

Essentially, there is no way we can match that.

Denver is offering. . .

#21, #56, #70 = 1380.

If you add in #86, it's 1540 - but then that's every pick we have on the first day this year.

Future firsts are valued at around half of what the original pick in the first-round of this years draft is, so Denver would have to finish pretty high to get into that 2,600 point area.

However, the value is all relative. If a team likes an offer such as the one we placed, they'll consider taking it. With as many holes as the Lions have, getting three or four picks this year, plus next year's first helps them out in a variety of ways. Tampa Bay, especially John Gruden is under the hot seat. Getting Johnson, would essentially salvage (or hopefully) his career there and let him hold out for a few years. (SoCal's thoughts, but I agree with them: props to him for this thought.)

The thing is, there's a chance the Broncos can pull this off, but they aren't even close to outbidding Tampa Bay right now, but Tampa Bay's offer is wavering, and my source in Tampa claims they're still hot for Calvin, but the price may be a little too much to pay, and the fact is they can get good players all over the board with their nice first-day they have now. (Legit source; credentials to Bucs games, the media pass, etc.) The Broncos will have to pull of some magic if they even want this to go down, and the hardest thing about it is, they're about third in line, perhaps fourth in the pecking order for Johnson.

It's quite possible, the only way to do this is if we give up two full drafts for Johnson.

Whether you think it's stupid or not (which I might say, two full drafts aren't worth it - but I think the offer we've given is worth it) Calvin Johnson would help this team. Contrary to what people have said to me, the interest in upgrading receiver truly does tell us what the Broncos think about who they have, and it's echoes what I've been saying all along. I won't pat myself on the back too hard, but it's really not that hard to believe the Broncos are interested in upgrading.

If we get to keep one of our thirds, we can still have a good draft, and I consider the draft a success if we get Calvin and just Calvin. We have an extra fourth next year, and if Jake plays for the Buccaneers, we'll have another fourth. That'd be great to help ease the loss of a first-rounder, but then again - for as much *****ing that goes around here, why do people care if we give up a future first anyways?

There's no sure thing in the NFL, but I think Calvin Johnson can be one of the top receivers to ever play the game. I rarely ever make comments like this, but I'm very high on this kid. I think a Cutler to Johnson duo could put them in that elite range of 100 touchdown passes to receptions that few have ever ventured into. However, ignoring the other needs, and going all out for one player could bite us in the rear in the future.

However, I'm willing to take the risk. First off, because Johnson is an elite player and secondly, very few first-day picks have contributed into Denver in the past. I think those concerned about giving so much have legitimate concerns, but I also see fallacies withing their arguments which I've pointed out in previous threads.

You have to love being a fan of the Broncos at this time of the year, I haven't seen a team as aggressive in recent memory and I'm really starting to think this year, this offseason, is going to be the one that sets what the Broncos are going to do for the next decade or so. Hard to say it, but that's what I believe.

I'm trying to stay as positive as I can. Great if we get Calvin, great if we address our other needs. I just want this draft to go well in some way.

Enjoy the wild ride guys.

[chaz]

great post req...great info and insight. thanks.

[chaz]

never realized how great of an offer tampa could put together! cant imagine detroit even hesitating to take that deal!! but req you said we are third or fourth in line for CJ, who is ahead of us besides TB?

[ludo21]

trade our draft for Calvin???


O YEAHHH!!! ;D

[Requiem]

Well, I'd have to say that Oakland, Tampa Bay perhaps even Detroit as much as they wouldn't want to admit it would be into taking Calvin if at all possible. I'd have to think that the Falcons, or even perhaps the Vikings could be legitimate players as well, especially the Falcons, after the Schaub trade.

[broncolife]

I just find it funny that signing someone with a franchise tag would be way cheaper in draft picks than this. Plus the player would be proven. I dont mind the trade, but I would hate to give next years first up. Man it would suck if we spent all those picks on CJ and then he gets injured. This is one draft were I have no idea of what I want. I wanted D line,S and lb but now I have this monkey wrench(which is tempting) thrown in.

[That One Guy]

You just lost all credibility comparing Williams to CJ. Williams was labeled a potential bust because he was SLOW.

Go back and read the Williams thread from '05. The only doubter I recall was Angryllama who said he was overrated due to his year off. I do recall someone mentioning something about "He looks like a man among boys on the football field always running open and catching everything thrown his way." As I said before though, my point in bringing all this up in the first place was just to say that just because he's the next big thing doesn't mean it's now a science and he can't fail. Even if you felt so confident you'd put your first born on his success, what happens when he's running down the sidelines, gets tackled and pulls a Culpepper shredding his knee. Was it worth it? There's too many things that could happen, that's too much of a price to pay to move and get a player. As someone else said, if you were already in the top 5, maybe top 10, then sure, go ahead and get him if he's what you want. We're just too far out to be aiming so high.

And for those who said taking CJ would hurt us in the near future - I'm sure those who matter in Denver are thinking the same thing and it doesn't seem like after the free agency that we've just had that they're real interested in building for 3 or 4 years from now. They're building to be competitive this year, that all goes out the window if we throw all potential draftees out the window in pursuit of CJ.

[azbroncfan]

Go back and read the Williams thread from '05. The only doubter I recall was Angryllama who said he was overrated due to his year off. I do recall someone mentioning something about "He looks like a man among boys on the football field always running open and catching everything thrown his way." As I said before though, my point in bringing all this up in the first place was just to say that just because he's the next big thing doesn't mean it's now a science and he can't fail. Even if you felt so confident you'd put your first born on his success, what happens when he's running down the sidelines, gets tackled and pulls a Culpepper shredding his knee. Was it worth it? There's too many things that could happen, that's too much of a price to pay to move and get a player. As someone else said, if you were already in the top 5, maybe top 10, then sure, go ahead and get him if he's what you want. We're just too far out to be aiming so high.

And for those who said taking CJ would hurt us in the near future - I'm sure those who matter in Denver are thinking the same thing and it doesn't seem like after the free agency that we've just had that they're real interested in building for 3 or 4 years from now. They're building to be competitive this year, that all goes out the window if we throw all potential draftees out the window in pursuit of CJ.


I'm not talking about the doubters on the Orangemane. The fact is he ran a slow 4.6 in the combine and his speed was always a question mark. Pull up his positives and negatives prior to the draft. By the way he was beat out by a white guy from the arena league who played S the year before.

[Victor]

Only if he has a "claw" hand.

[Hotrod]

Now that Jenkins is off the radar NO WAY shanny blows the whole draft for CJ and leave the Dline in shambles. Forget about it.

[tesnyde]

I think it would be a great move. It seemed like forever that Elway was all we had. It wasn't until we put some weapons around him that we actually won a Superbowl. Granted we had some decent players on D, but scoring 30+ a game sure made them look better. I see it now, Denver 52 -Colts 45 - saved by a Champ pick for a TD

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

I would be happy with any player or combination of players that improves the Broncos team. How's that for skirting the issue? ;D

[Cito Pelon]

.......If we get to keep one of our thirds, we can still have a good draft, and I consider the draft a success if we get Calvin and just Calvin. We have an extra fourth next year, and if Jake plays for the Buccaneers, we'll have another fourth. That'd be great to help ease the loss of a first-rounder, but then again - for as much *****ing that goes around here, why do people care if we give up a future first anyways?. . . . . . .
However, I'm willing to take the risk. First off, because Johnson is an elite player and secondly, very few first-day picks have contributed into Denver in the past.. . . . . ..

I edited what I thought was your conclusion, and I disagree. You go with the percentages, regardless of how many first day Bronc picks have gone sour in the past. To me, it's not worth the sacrifice for a WR.

It's fine to speculate and I don't have a problem with speculation, but I think if the team is going to move up into the top five, it should be for an OT only. And the only reason I say that - and I hesitate to even speculate giving up so much - is because Cutler is a statue. He's potentially a big time player, but he needs better protection than Plummer had. And I would say that if Denver was to trade up for one of the OT's Thomas or Brown, they do so with picks next year, not this year. Next year would have to take care of itself, but a second and two thirds this year you keep them in the bank. No way a WR is worth that sacrifice. They just don't have that much impact on a team over a season.

And once you hit the playoffs, individual skill players are routinely neutralized. You need a good overall team in all three phases, and that comes through having draft picks. Denver may f up the picks, but the percentages say keep the first day picks this year.

Next year is next year. Maybe you trade some of those picks for an OT this year, and that's a big gamble also, but not for a WR.