For pattytoo; Bush Timeline of Lies for His Iraqi Grudge Match [Archive] - The Orange Mane

Bronco_Beerslug

04-18-2007, 09:02 PM

Complete with all relevant links. Of course, I'm sure he'll recoil in denial for one reason or another.

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January 27, 1998 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/1998/01/january_27_1998.html)
Ahmed Chalabi hosts in his London apartment a liaison of the UN weapons inspectors working in Iraq. The liaison, Scott Ritter, explains the limits of the inspectors' Iraq intelligence. "I should have asked him what he could give me," Ritter...
Tags: Chalabi (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Chalabi&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
November, 1999 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/1999/11/november_1999.html)
Iraqi defector "Curveball" enters Munich seeking political asylum. A convicted sex offender and low-level engineer later shown to be a fabricator, he will become one of the most important informants on Saddam Hussein's suspected weapons of mass destruction and the...
Tags: Curveball (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Curveball&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), German Intelligence (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=German%20Intelligence&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
January, 2000 to September, 2001 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2000/01/january_2000_to.html)
Curveball is debriefed by German intelligence. His handlers will later tell the the Los Angeles Times that his information was "often vague, mostly secondhand and impossible to confirm." One senior official adds, "This was not substantial evidence.... We made clear...
Tags: Curveball (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Curveball&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), German Intelligence (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=German%20Intelligence&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
April 9, 2001 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2001/04/april_9_2001.html)
Mohammad Atta allegedly meets with senior Iraqi intelligence officials at the Iraqi embassy in Prague. The 9/11 Report (Section 7) will later debunk this claim: "The FBI has gathered evidence indicating that Atta was in Virginia Beach on April 4...
Tags: Atta (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Atta&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Cheney (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Cheney&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), DOJ/FBI (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=DOJ%2FFBI&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), TRUE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=TRUE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
April 10, 2001 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2001/04/april_10_2001.html)
A report containing research provided by a CIA analyst known only as Joe reaches top Bush administration officials. It claims that aluminum tubes being sought by Iraq are meant for uranium centrifuges. The assessment is immediately challenged by the Energy...
Tags: Aluminum Tubes (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Aluminum%20Tubes&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), DOE (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=DOE&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), TRUE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=TRUE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September, 2001 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2001/09/september_2001.html)
Iraqi defector Curveball, granted asylum in Germany, ceases cooperating with German intelligence officials. The CIA assures the Germans that they have other sources that corroborate Curveball's claims that Iraq has at least seven mobile factories brewing biological poisons. The reality...
Tags: Chalabi (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Chalabi&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Curveball (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Curveball&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), German Intelligence (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=German%20Intelligence&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September 11, 2001 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2001/09/september_11_20_1.html)
A note from an aide who was with the Secretary of Defense at the National Military Command Center shows that just five hours after the attacks Rumsfeld says, "Best info fast. Judge whether good enough to hit S.H. at same...
Tags: Al Qaeda (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Al%20Qaeda&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Rumsfeld (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Rumsfeld&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Saddam (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Saddam&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Terror Attack (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Terror%20Attack&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September 12, 2001 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2001/09/september_12_20.html)
According to Richard Clarke's book, "Against All Enemies," Bush collars Clarke and says, "I know you have a lot to do and all, but I want you, as soon as you can, to go back over everything, everything. See if...
Tags: Bush (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Bush&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Doubters (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Doubters&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Saddam (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Saddam&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September 19, 2001 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2001/09/september_19_20.html)
President Bush tells CIA chief George Tenet, "I want to know about links between Saddam and al Qaeda. The Vice President knows some things that might be helpful." Vice President Cheney tells Tenet about a report that one of the...
Tags: Al Qaeda (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Al%20Qaeda&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Atta (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Atta&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Bush (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Bush&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Cheney (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Cheney&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
October, 2001 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2001/10/october_2001.html)
Shortly after the 9/11 attacks, the CIA receives a report from Italian intelligence describing a public visit by an Iraqi diplomat to Niger in 1999 and suggesting that the diplomat's covert purpose was to procure yellowcake uranium. The American intelligence...
Tags: FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
October 1, 2001 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2001/10/october_1_2001.html)
On the cover of its first post-9/11 issue, the Weekly Standard runs the word WANTED under pictures of Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein....
Tags: Bush (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Bush&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FEAR FACTOR (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FEAR%20FACTOR&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Neocons (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Neocons&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
October 29, 2001 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2001/10/october_29_2001.html)
The Weekly Standard runs an article entitled "Why Iraq?" It alleges that Mohammed Atta met with Iraqi intelligence officials in Europe and that Iraq is linked to the anthrax attacks in America (the latter because one expert thinks it is...
Tags: FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FEAR FACTOR (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FEAR%20FACTOR&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Neocons (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Neocons&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Saddam (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Saddam&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
November 8, 2001 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2001/11/november_8_2001.html)
The New York Times and Frontline report that an Iraqi defector, an army general, claims that the Iraqi military trained Arab fighters to hijack airplanes. Mother Jones later exposes the Iraqi general as bogus and linked to Ahmed Chalabi....
Tags: FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FEAR FACTOR (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FEAR%20FACTOR&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
November 11, 2001 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2001/11/november_11_200.html)
Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, senior Al Qaeda official in charge of the network's training camp in Khalden, Afghanistan, is captured in Pakistan. Newsweek will call him "America's first big trophy in the war on terror."...
Tags: Al-Libi (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Al-Libi&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), DOD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=DOD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), TORTURE (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=TORTURE&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
December 9, 2001 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2001/12/december_9_2001.html)
Vice President Cheney, appearing on Meet the Press, claims it has "been pretty well confirmed that [Mohammed Atta] did go to Prague and he did meet with a senior official of the Iraqi intelligence service in Czechoslovakia last April, several...
Tags: Al Qaeda (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Al%20Qaeda&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Atta (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Atta&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Cheney (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Cheney&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), DOJ/FBI (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=DOJ%2FFBI&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
December 20, 2001 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2001/12/december_20_200.html)
New York Times reporter Judith Miller writes a front-page story for the paper titled "AN IRAQI DEFECTOR TELLS OF WORK ON AT LEAST 20 HIDDEN WEAPONS SITES." The source is a man delivered to Miller by Ahmed Chalabi. The man...
Tags: Chalabi (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Chalabi&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Judy Miller (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Judy%20Miller&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)

Bronco_Beerslug

04-18-2007, 09:05 PM

Early January, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/01/early_january_2.html)
Captured terrorist Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi is transferred to CIA custody after a battle royale with the FBI and a personal plea from CIA director George Tenet to the President. The FBI, with experience in collecting evidence for trials, advocates treating...
Tags: Al-Libi (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Al-Libi&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Bush (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Bush&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), DOJ/FBI (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=DOJ%2FFBI&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), TORTURE (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=TORTURE&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
February, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/02/february_2002.html)
A report from the DIA (Defense Intelligence Agency) informs top officials that captured Al Qaeda operative al-Libi is likely a fabricator. Periodically after this point, high-level members of the Bush Administration, including the President, will cite al-Libi's information in public...
Tags: Al Qaeda (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Al%20Qaeda&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Al-Libi (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Al-Libi&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Bush (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Bush&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), DOD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=DOD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Powell (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Powell&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), TRUE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=TRUE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
February 8, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/02/february_8_2002.html)
Bush, citing the highly suspect testimony of captured Al Qaeda operative al-Libi, says in a radio address, "Iraq has also provided al Qaeda with chemical and biological weapons training."...
Tags: Al-Libi (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Al-Libi&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Bush (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Bush&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
March 24, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/03/march_24_2002.html)
Appearing on CNN's Late Edition, Cheney says of Saddam, "This is a man of great evil, as the president said. And he is actively pursuing nuclear weapons at this time."...
Tags: Cheney (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Cheney&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Saddam (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Saddam&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
April 9, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/04/april_9_2002.html)
Bush: "The other day we hauled in a guy named Abu Zubaydah. He's one of the top operatives plotting and planning death and destruction on the United States." Members of the Administration call Zubaydah a "chief operator" and a "member...
Tags: Al Qaeda (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Al%20Qaeda&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Bush (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Bush&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), TORTURE (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=TORTURE&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Zubaydah (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Zubaydah&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
April 29, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/04/weekly_standard.html)
Weekly Standard: "Saddam has been moving ahead into a new era, a new age of horrors where terrorists don't commandeer jumbo jets and fly them into our skyscrapers. They plant nuclear bombs in our cities."...
Tags: FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FEAR FACTOR (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FEAR%20FACTOR&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Neocons (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Neocons&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Saddam (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Saddam&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
May, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/05/may_2002.html)
The most important corroborator of Curveball's story, a former major in the Iraqi intelligence service, is deemed a liar by the CIA and DIA (Defense Intelligence Agency). A fabricator notice is posted in US intelligence databases....
Tags: CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Curveball (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Curveball&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), DOD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=DOD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), TRUE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=TRUE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
May 18, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/05/details_of_the.html)
Details of the President's daily briefing of August 6, 2001, are revealed, including its title: "Bin Laden determined to strike in US." The same day, another pre-9/11 memo is discovered revealing that an FBI agent in Arizona had urged his...
Tags: 9/11 Commission (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=9%2F11%20Commission&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Bush (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Bush&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), DOJ/FBI (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=DOJ%2FFBI&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), TRUE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=TRUE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
May 21, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/05/may_21_2002_1.html)
Defense Secretary Rumsfeld tells a Senate subcommittee that there are al Qaeda terrorists living in the United States. According to Ron Suskind's 2006 book, "The One Percent Doctrine," this is a reference to the "Lackawanna Six," a group of six...
Tags: FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FEAR FACTOR (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FEAR%20FACTOR&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Rumsfeld (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Rumsfeld&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Terror Prosecutions (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Terror%20Prosecutions&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
Mid June, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/06/june_2002_4.html)
Cheney and Libby begin visits to the CIA to have direct exchanges with analysts, creating an environment in which analysts often feel pressured to make intelligence and assessments match what the White House wants. "The analysts at the CIA were...
Tags: Cheney (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Cheney&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
August 26, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/08/august_26_2002.html)
At a speech in Nashville, Vice President Cheney says, "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies,...
Tags: Cheney (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Cheney&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Saddam (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Saddam&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)

Bronco_Beerslug

04-18-2007, 09:07 PM

September 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/09/september_2002_2.html)
U.S. Army General James "Spider" Marks is named the top intelligence officer for the coalition forces planning to invade Iraq. He begins looking at the intelligence on WMD. He finds the information in disarray and top officials disinterested. Intelligence analysts...
Tags: DOD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=DOD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), False Intel (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=False%20Intel&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Rumsfeld (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Rumsfeld&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/09/september_2002.html)
Some 30 Americans are sent as CIA moles to Iraq, reports James Risen in his 2006 book "State of War." They all have relatives in Iraq who are close to Iraq's weapons program, and are supposed to come back with...
Tags: CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), TRUE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=TRUE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/09/september_2002_1.html)
Tyler Drumheller, the head of CIA spying in Europe, calls an official in German intelligence seeking access to Curveball. They meet for lunch. According to Drumheller, the German officer tells him that Curveball had suffered a mental breakdown. "They won't...
Tags: CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Curveball (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Curveball&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), German Intelligence (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=German%20Intelligence&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), TRUE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=TRUE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September 7, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/09/september_7_200.html)
In a news conference with Tony Blair, President Bush claims that an IAEA report says Iraq is six months from developing a nuclear weapon. Because there is no new report from the IAEA saying this, most news agencies interpret the...
Tags: Bush (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Bush&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FEAR FACTOR (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FEAR%20FACTOR&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), IAEA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=IAEA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September 8, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/09/september_8_200.html)
Judith Miller and Michael Gordon, citing unnamed administration sources, write on the front page of the New York Times, "Iraq has sought to buy thousands of specially designed aluminum tubes, which American officials believe were intended as components of centrifuges...
Tags: Aluminum Tubes (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Aluminum%20Tubes&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Cheney (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Cheney&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FEAR FACTOR (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FEAR%20FACTOR&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Judy Miller (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Judy%20Miller&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September 8, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/09/september_8_200_1.html)
Later the same day, the administration goes on the offensive, pushing the aluminum-tubes-as-nuclear-threat story in multiple TV appearances. National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice appears on CNN, saying the aluminum tubes "are only really suited for nuclear weapons programs, centrifuge programs....
Tags: Aluminum Tubes (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Aluminum%20Tubes&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Cheney (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Cheney&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), DOE (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=DOE&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FEAR FACTOR (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FEAR%20FACTOR&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Rice (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Rice&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September 8, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/09/september_8_200_2.html)
Vice President Cheney also says on Meet the Press: "Mohamed Atta, who was the lead hijacker, did apparently travel to Prague on a number of occasions. And on at least one occasion, we have reporting that places him in Prague...
Tags: Al Qaeda (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Al%20Qaeda&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Atta (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Atta&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Cheney (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Cheney&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FEAR FACTOR (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FEAR%20FACTOR&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September 12, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/09/september_12_20_1.html)
Bush tells the UN General Assembly that Iraq is a "grave and gathering danger," and that "Iraq has made several attempts to buy high-strength aluminum tubes used to enrich uranium for a nuclear weapon. Should Iraq acquire fissile material, it...
Tags: Aluminum Tubes (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Aluminum%20Tubes&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Bush (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Bush&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FEAR FACTOR (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FEAR%20FACTOR&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September 12, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/09/september_12_20_2.html)
The White House issues a report on Iraq intelligence entitled "A Decade of Deception and Defiance." It cites information from Adnan Ihsan Saeed al-Haideri, the Judith Miller source who failed a CIA polygraph test. The information remains on the White...
Tags: FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Judy Miller (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Judy%20Miller&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September 14, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/09/september_14_20.html)
Dick Cheney tells Rush Limbaugh, "What's happening, of course, is we're getting additional information that, in fact, [Saddam] is reconstituting his biological, chemical and nuclear weapons programs and that's what really precipitates the concern now."...
Tags: Cheney (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Cheney&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FEAR FACTOR (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FEAR%20FACTOR&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September 18, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/09/september_18_20_1.html)
Donald Rumsfeld tells Congress, "Some have argued that the nuclear threat from Iraq is not imminent, that Saddam Hussein is at least five to seven years away from having nuclear weapons. I would not be so certain—we should be just...
Tags: FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FEAR FACTOR (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FEAR%20FACTOR&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Rumsfeld (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Rumsfeld&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September 19, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/09/september_19_20_1.html)
Rumsfeld tells Congress: "[Saddam has] amassed large, clandestine stockpiles of biological weapons, including Anthrax, botulism, toxins, and possibly Smallpox. He's amassed large, clandestine stockpiles of chemical weapons, including VX, Sarin and mustard gas. His regime has an active program to...
Tags: FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FEAR FACTOR (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FEAR%20FACTOR&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Rumsfeld (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Rumsfeld&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September 20, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/09/september_20_20_4.html)
Vice President Cheney: "We now have irrefutable evidence that [Saddam] has once again set up and reconstituted his program to take uranium, to enrich it to sufficiently high grade, so that it will function as the base material as a...
Tags: Aluminum Tubes (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Aluminum%20Tubes&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Cheney (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Cheney&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FEAR FACTOR (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FEAR%20FACTOR&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Oil (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Oil&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Saddam (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Saddam&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September 24, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/09/september_24_20.html)
Downing Street publishes a 55-page dossier on Iraq's weapons capabilities. It states without qualification that Iraq can launch a chemical or biological attack within 45 minutes. It also says Saddam has sought to acquire "significant quantities" of uranium from Africa....
Tags: British Intelligence (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=British%20Intelligence&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Niger Uranium (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Niger%20Uranium&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Sexed-Up Dossier (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Sexed-Up%20Dossier&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)

Bronco_Beerslug

04-18-2007, 09:07 PM

September 25, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/09/september_25_20_1.html)
President Bush tells journalists, "You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror."...
Tags: Al Qaeda (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Al%20Qaeda&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Rice (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Rice&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September 26, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/09/september_26_20.html)
President Bush says in a Rose Garden speech, "the Iraqi regime possesses biological and chemical weapons." A Defense Intelligence Agency report distributed in the White House around the time of the speech says there is "no reliable information on whether...
Tags: Bush (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Bush&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), DOD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=DOD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FEAR FACTOR (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FEAR%20FACTOR&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), TRUE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=TRUE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September 27, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/09/september_27_20.html)
Donald Rumsfeld calls the link between Iraq and al Qaeda "accurate and not debatable."...
Tags: Al Qaeda (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Al%20Qaeda&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Rumsfeld (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Rumsfeld&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September 28, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/09/september_28_20.html)
Bush addresses the nation: "The danger to our country is grave and it is growing. The Iraqi regime possesses biological and chemical weapons, is rebuilding the facilities to make more and, according to the British government, could launch a biological...
Tags: Al Qaeda (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Al%20Qaeda&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Bush (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Bush&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FEAR FACTOR (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FEAR%20FACTOR&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Sexed-Up Dossier (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Sexed-Up%20Dossier&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
October, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/10/october_2002.html)
At the request of Congress, a National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) is produced. It is supposed to represent the best the intelligence community can offer, and contains the claims that will eventually be justifications for war. Many turn out to be...
Tags: Al Qaeda (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Al%20Qaeda&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Aluminum Tubes (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Aluminum%20Tubes&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Curveball (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Curveball&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), DOE (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=DOE&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Mobile Weapons Labs (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Mobile%20Weapons%20Labs&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), State (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=State&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), TRUE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=TRUE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
October 5, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/10/october_5_2002.html)
George Tenet reads a draft of a speech George Bush is set to deliver in Cincinnati on October 7. It includes the claim that Saddam has "been caught attempting to purchase" uranium in Niger. The CIA tells Stephen Hadley and...
Tags: Bush (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Bush&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Niger Uranium (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Niger%20Uranium&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), TRUE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=TRUE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
October 6, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/10/seeing_that_the.html)
Seeing that the Niger uranium claim, despite CIA objections, has not been taken out of the draft of George Bush's upcoming Cincinnati speech, George Tenet calls Stephen Hadley and expresses concern. As a follow-up, the CIA sends a memo to...
Tags: CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Niger Uranium (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Niger%20Uranium&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Rice (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Rice&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), TRUE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=TRUE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
October 8, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/10/october_8_2002.html)
Knight Ridder reporters Warren P. Strobel, Jonathan S. Landay and John Walcott write: "A growing number of military officers, intelligence professionals and diplomats in own government privately have deep misgivings about the administration's double-time march toward war. "These officials...
Tags: Al Qaeda (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Al%20Qaeda&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Bush (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Bush&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Saddam (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Saddam&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), TRUE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=TRUE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
[B]October 9, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/10/in_response_to.html)
In response to Bush's October 7 speech in which the President made his case for war against Iraq, anonymous officials tell the Guardian that Bush "relied on a slanted and sometimes entirely false reading of the available US intelligence" and...
Tags: Bush (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Bush&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), TRUE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=TRUE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
October 23, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/10/october_23_2002.html)
Roughly one year after Rumsfeld and some of his senior advisers set up their own Iraq intelligence shop, Pentagon officials acknowledge its existence in the press....
Tags: DOD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=DOD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
December 7, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/12/december_7_2002.html)
Iraq submits a 12,200-page declaration to the UN purporting to document all its unconventional arms....
Tags: Aluminum Tubes (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Aluminum%20Tubes&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Niger Uranium (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Niger%20Uranium&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), UN (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=UN&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
December 19, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/12/december_19_200.html)
The US discounts the Iraqi weapons declaration because it fails to account for various weapons that a UN inspection team said it "could have produced," and because it does not mention the tubes purchased for a uranium centrifuge or the...
Tags: Aluminum Tubes (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Aluminum%20Tubes&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Niger Uranium (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Niger%20Uranium&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Powell (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Powell&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), State (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=State&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
December 21, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/12/december_21_200.html)
The CIA's leadership goes to the White House to present the evidence for WMD in Iraq. Bush is underwhelmed, telling Tenet, "Nice try, but that isn't gonna sell Joe Public… This is the best we've got?" Tenet responds, "It's a...
Tags: Bush (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Bush&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)

Bronco_Beerslug

04-18-2007, 09:09 PM

January, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/01/january_2003_1.html)
The CIA finally balks at being assigned over and over to confirm what it viewed as phony intelligence, according to a later report in The Washington Post. In an angry dispute, CIA Deputy Director John McLaughlin tells Cheney's aide I....
Tags: Cheney (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Cheney&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
January 28, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/01/january_28_2003.html)
President Bush, in his State of the Union address, says the infamous l6 words: "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." Various intelligence agencies know this to be false. The CIA...
Tags: Aluminum Tubes (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Aluminum%20Tubes&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Bush (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Bush&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Curveball (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Curveball&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FEAR FACTOR (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FEAR%20FACTOR&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Mobile Weapons Labs (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Mobile%20Weapons%20Labs&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Niger Uranium (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Niger%20Uranium&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Weapons Inspections (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Weapons%20Inspections&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
January 29, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/01/january_29_2003.html)
A day after the President’s State of the Union address, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld backs him up. “[Saddam’s] regime has the design for a nuclear weapon; it was working on several different methods of enriching uranium, and recently was discovered...
Tags: Al Qaeda (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Al%20Qaeda&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FEAR FACTOR (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FEAR%20FACTOR&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Niger Uranium (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Niger%20Uranium&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Rumsfeld (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Rumsfeld&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
January 29, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/01/january_29_2003_1.html)
Then-United State ambassador to the UN John Negroponte, asked about IAEA chief Mohammed ElBaradei’s skepticism that the aluminum tubes bound for Iraq were to be used in a centrifuge, responds, “If your question to me is, ‘Are we convinced that...
Tags: Aluminum Tubes (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Aluminum%20Tubes&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), IAEA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=IAEA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), UN (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=UN&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
January 29, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/01/january_29_2003_2.html)
In a report entitled “Iraqi Support for Terrorism,” the CIA revisits the claim that Mohammad Atta met with an Iraqi intelligence official in Prague. “Some information asserts that Atta met with IIS chief…al-Ani, but the most reliable reporting to date...
Tags: Al Qaeda (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Al%20Qaeda&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Atta (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Atta&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), TRUE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=TRUE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
March 8, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/03/march_8_2003_1.html)
Joseph Wilson appears on CNN and is asked to comment on ElBaradei's appearance at the U.N. the day before, in which ElBaradei called the Niger uranium document forgeries. Wilson says it's an embarrassment that the U.S. intelligence community couldn't come...
Tags: Doubters (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Doubters&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), IAEA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=IAEA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Niger Uranium (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Niger%20Uranium&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Plamegate (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Plamegate&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
March 9, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/03/march_9_2003.html)
On CBS's Face the Nation, Condoleezza Rice says, "We know from a detainee that—the head of training for al-Qaeda—that they sought help in developing chemical and biological weapons because they weren't doing very well on their own. They sought it...
Tags: Al-Libi (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Al-Libi&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Rice (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Rice&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), TORTURE (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=TORTURE&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)

Bronco_Beerslug

04-18-2007, 09:11 PM

March 16, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/03/march_16_2003.html)
Cheney appears on Meet the Press. He says, "My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators." On the fact that the IAEA's ElBaradei doubts Saddam Hussein has a nuclear program: "I think Mr. ElBaradei frankly is wrong....
Tags: Cheney (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Cheney&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FEAR FACTOR (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FEAR%20FACTOR&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), IAEA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=IAEA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), MISSION ACCOMPLISHED (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=MISSION%20ACCOMPLISHED&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
March 18, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/03/march_18_2003.html)
A Washington Post article runs, inside the paper on page A–13, under the headline, "Bush Clings To Dubious Allegations About Iraq." It reads, in part: "As the Bush administration prepares to attack Iraq this week, it is doing so on...
Tags: Bush (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Bush&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), TRUE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=TRUE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
March 30, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/03/march_30_2003.html)
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld deflects criticism that he hasn't deployed enough troops. Of Iraq's purported WMD he says: "We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."...
Tags: FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Rumsfeld (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Rumsfeld&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
April 6, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/04/april_6_2003.html)
U.S. forces take Salman Pak military base, where Iraqis supposedly trained hijackers and kept WMD. Troops turn up no evidence of either....
Tags: Al Qaeda (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Al%20Qaeda&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
April 7, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/04/april_7_2003.html)
Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf, aka Baghdad Bob, declares: "The infidels are committing suicide by the hundreds on the gates of Baghdad. Be assured, Baghdad is safe, protected. Iraqis are heroes." Baghdad Bob will become an internet celebrity....
Tags: FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
April 10, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/04/april_10_2003.html)
In a televised address, U.K. Prime Minister Tony Blair assures the Iraqi people, "Saddam gave us no choice to act."...
Tags: Blair (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Blair&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Saddam (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Saddam&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
[B]April 19, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/04/april_19_2003.html)
A trailer is seized at a Kurdish checkpoint; Bush will later claim it's a mobile weapons lab....
Tags: FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Mobile Weapons Labs (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Mobile%20Weapons%20Labs&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
May 6, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/05/may_6_2003_1.html)
George Bush touts the bio-lab trailer found at a Kurdish checkpoint: "I'm not surprised if we begin to uncover the weapons program of Saddam Hussein -- because he had a weapons program. I will leave the details... to the experts."...
Tags: Bush (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Bush&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Weapons Inspections (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Weapons%20Inspections&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
May 9, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/05/may_9_2003.html)
"The truth is that, for reasons that have a lot to do with the U.S. government bureaucracy, we settled on the one issue that everyone could agree on, which was weapons of mass destruction."...
Tags: FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Neocons (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Neocons&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
May 28, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/05/may_28_2003.html)
The CIA reports publicly that a seized Iraqi trailer is a bioweapons lab. The claim is based heavily on Iraqi defector Curveball's "assessment" of photos relayed to Germany. Only one of 15 intelligence analysts buys the conclusion. A few months...
Tags: CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Curveball (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Curveball&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), German Intelligence (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=German%20Intelligence&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Mobile Weapons Labs (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Mobile%20Weapons%20Labs&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
May 29, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/05/may_29_2003_2.html)
George W. Bush says, "We found the weapons of mass destruction...You remember when Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said, 'Iraq has got mobile labs to build biological weapons'...we've so far discovered two."...
Tags: Bush (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Bush&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Mobile Weapons Labs (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Mobile%20Weapons%20Labs&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Powell (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Powell&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
May 30, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/05/may_30_2003_1.html)
Blair denies that WMD intelligence was distorted or exaggerated....
Tags: Blair (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Blair&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Sexed-Up Dossier (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Sexed-Up%20Dossier&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
June 5, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/06/june_5_2003_1.html)
The Washington Post reports, "Former and current intelligence officials said they felt a continual drumbeat, not only from Cheney and Libby, but also from Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz, Feith, and less so from CIA Director George J. Tenet,...
Tags: Cheney (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Cheney&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), DOD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=DOD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Neocons (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Neocons&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
June 9, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/06/june_9_2003.html)
In a retrospective of pre-war intelligence, Newsweek reports that the aluminum tube claims were doubted early on within the intelligence community: "At the CIA, Tenet seems to have latched on to the tubes as a kind of smoking gun. He...
Tags: Aluminum Tubes (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Aluminum%20Tubes&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), DOE (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=DOE&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), State (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=State&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), TRUE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=TRUE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)

patteeu

04-19-2007, 09:55 AM

You're going to have to point out the specific Bush lies to me if you want me to comment. I don't feel like searching for a needle in a haystack today.

Spider

04-19-2007, 10:34 AM

You're going to have to point out the specific Bush lies to me if you want me to comment. I don't feel like searching for a needle in a haystack today.

Hilarious! figures .........

Bronco_Beerslug

04-20-2007, 08:41 AM

You're going to have to point out the specific Bush lies to me if you want me to comment. I don't feel like searching for a needle in a haystack today.Take your pick, it's all laid out neatly for you and that's just the Iraq group of lies. I'll post others if you'd rather not tackle these.

patteeu

04-20-2007, 10:29 AM

Take your pick, it's all laid out neatly for you and that's just the Iraq group of lies. I'll post others if you'd rather not tackle these.

OK, I'll pick the very first entry.

January 27, 1998

Ahmed Chalabi hosts in his London apartment a liaison of the UN weapons inspectors working in Iraq. The liaison, Scott Ritter, explains the limits of the inspectors' Iraq intelligence. "I should have asked him what he could give me," Ritter will later tell Jane Mayer of The New Yorker, "We made the biggest mistake in the intelligence business: we identified all of our gaps." The New Yorker report adds: "[Ritter] also told Chalabi of his suspicion that Saddam may have had mobile chemical- or biological-weapons laboratories."

Hmmm, 1998? Wasn't that during the Clinton administration? I don't see any Bush lies here.

There. Now I've spent as much time on this cut-and-paste job as you did and I find your list faulty.

Bronco_Beerslug

04-20-2007, 01:28 PM

LOL
I love it when Bush apologists use Clinton as a reason for Bush lying the country to war. A little education for you on the role Chalabi played in Bush lying the country to war...

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Entries from Lie By Lie tagged with 'Chalabi'

April 9, 1992 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/1992/04/april_9_1992.html)
A military court in Jordan convicts Ahmed Chalabi in absentia for embezzling money from a Jordanian bank he mismanaged into collapse. He is sentenced to 22 years in prison....
Tags: Chalabi (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Chalabi&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Saddam (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Saddam&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
January 27, 1998 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/1998/01/january_27_1998.html)
Ahmed Chalabi hosts in his London apartment a liaison of the UN weapons inspectors working in Iraq. The liaison, Scott Ritter, explains the limits of the inspectors' Iraq intelligence. "I should have asked him what he could give me," Ritter...
Tags: Chalabi (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Chalabi&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
October 31, 1998 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/1998/10/october_31_1998.html)
President Clinton signs the Iraq Liberation Act, drafted by Trent Lott and others&150;with an assist by Ahmed Chalabi&150;and passed by Congress almost unanimously. The act makes it the policy of the United States "to support efforts to remove the regime...
Tags: Boondoggle (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Boondoggle&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Chalabi (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Chalabi&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Saddam (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Saddam&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
Late 1998 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/1998/12/late_1998.html)
General Anthony Zinni, commander of US combat forces in the Middle East, is given a copy of Chalabi's plan to topple Saddam. "It got me pretty angry," he will later tell Jane Mayer of The New Yorker. "They were saying...
Tags: Chalabi (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Chalabi&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Saddam (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Saddam&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), TRUE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=TRUE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
November 6, 2000 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2000/11/november_6_2000.html)
Congress designates $25 million for "programs benefiting the Iraqi people," mandating that at least $12 million of the funding be administered by Ahmed Chalabi's Iraqi National Congress....
Tags: Boondoggle (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Boondoggle&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Chalabi (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Chalabi&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September, 2001 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2001/09/september_2001.html)
Iraqi defector Curveball, granted asylum in Germany, ceases cooperating with German intelligence officials. The CIA assures the Germans that they have other sources that corroborate Curveball's claims that Iraq has at least seven mobile factories brewing biological poisons. The reality...
Tags: Chalabi (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Chalabi&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Curveball (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Curveball&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), German Intelligence (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=German%20Intelligence&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
September 18, 2001 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2001/09/september_18_20_2.html)
Ahmed Chalabi is a guest speaker at a two-day meeting at the Pentagon of the Defense Policy Board, an influential body packed with high-level Defense officials and opinion makers and chaired by Richard Perle, according to an article in Vanity...
Tags: Chalabi (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Chalabi&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), DOD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=DOD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Neocons (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Neocons&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
December 20, 2001 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2001/12/december_20_200.html)
New York Times reporter Judith Miller writes a front-page story for the paper titled "AN IRAQI DEFECTOR TELLS OF WORK ON AT LEAST 20 HIDDEN WEAPONS SITES." The source is a man delivered to Miller by Ahmed Chalabi. The man...
Tags: Chalabi (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Chalabi&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), CIA (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=CIA&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), FALSE INTEL (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=FALSE%20INTEL&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Judy Miller (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Judy%20Miller&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), WMD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=WMD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
March, 2002 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2002/03/march_2002.html)
"Chalabi's defector reports [are] now flowing from the Pentagon directly to the Vice-President's office, and then on to the President, with little prior evaluation by intelligence professionals," according to an October 2003 report by Seymour Hersh in The New Yorker....
Tags: Bush (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Bush&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Chalabi (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Chalabi&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Cheney (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Cheney&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), DOD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=DOD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), State (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=State&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
February 25, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/02/february_25_200_1.html)
Rumsfeld demands that two of Jay Garner’s most qualified team members be let go. One is Tom Warrick, who has led the State Department’s work on regime change issues and has attended a conference of Iraqi opposition leaders, many of...
Tags: Chalabi (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Chalabi&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Cheney (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Cheney&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Neocons (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Neocons&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Quagmire (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Quagmire&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Reconstruction Authorities (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Reconstruction%20Authorities&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Rumsfeld (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Rumsfeld&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), State (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=State&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
February 25, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/02/february_25_200_1.html)
Rumsfeld demands that two of Jay Garner’s most qualified team members be let go. One is Tom Warrick, who has led the State Department’s work on regime change issues and has attended a conference of Iraqi opposition leaders, many of...
Tags: Chalabi (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Chalabi&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Cheney (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Cheney&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Neocons (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Neocons&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Quagmire (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Quagmire&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Reconstruction Authorities (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Reconstruction%20Authorities&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Rumsfeld (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Rumsfeld&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), State (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=State&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)
April 6, 2003 (http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/archives/2003/04/april_6_2003_1.html)
The Pentagon flies Ahmad Chalabi and 700 followers to southern Iraq. Chalabi is quickly installed in Baghdad's ritzy Hunting Club. An aide warns Gen. Garner that Chalabi's men are acting like "a warlord group."Garner eventually holds a press conference and...
Tags: Chalabi (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Chalabi&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), DOD (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=DOD&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Neocons (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Neocons&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2), Reconstruction Authorities (http://161.58.185.225/mb/mt-search.cgi?tag=Reconstruction%20Authorities&blog_id=2&IncludeBlogs=2)

patteeu

04-20-2007, 01:57 PM

LOL
I love it when Bush apologists use Clinton as a reason for Bush lying the country to war. A little education for you on the role Chalabi played in Bush lying the country to war...

I'm not following you here. Are you saying that it was Bush who sent Chalibi to talk with Scott Ritter in 1998, two years before he even ran for president, so that when he took office and after 9/11 happened, he'd be able to pull out his Chalibi ace-card and play the big lie he'd been brewing for 4 years? Don't you think that's a bit preposterous?

Garcia Bronco

04-20-2007, 02:19 PM

I'm not following you here. Are you saying that it was Bush who sent Chalibi to talk with Scott Ritter in 1998, two years before he even ran for president, so that when he took office and after 9/11 happened, he'd be able to pull out his Chalibi ace-card and play the big lie he'd been brewing for 4 years? Don't you think that's a bit preposterous?

Wow...you know...for a guy as supposedly dumb as George bush is he is able to accomplish some amazing things...perhaps he got a favorabe roll with his 8 sided die, because he must be a dungeon master

Bronco_Beerslug

04-20-2007, 02:22 PM

I'm not following you here. Are you saying that it was Bush who sent Chalibi to talk with Scott Ritter in 1998, two years before he even ran for president, so that when he took office and after 9/11 happened, he'd be able to pull out his Chalibi ace-card and play the big lie he'd been brewing for 4 years? Don't you think that's a bit preposterous?Of course you are but I'm sure you don't want to admit it. The links (timeline) are there for his involvement and everyone else the Bush administration used, abused, propped up and threw away to lie this country into war. If you really are that ignorant to the information available, then all these links/facts should make good reading for you for a few days or weeks depending on your reading ability.

patteeu

04-20-2007, 04:27 PM

Wow...you know...for a guy as supposedly dumb as George bush is he is able to accomplish some amazing things...perhaps he got a favorabe roll with his 8 sided die, because he must be a dungeon master

LOL

That reminds me of one of my favorite lines from Malcolm in the Middle. Craig, the nerdy friend of the family, speaking to his long lost father:

Dad, I'm not going with you. My life isn't a mess. I love my life. I love my job, I love my cat, I love my friends. I've made something of myself. I'm Desk Sergeant at my Neighborhood Watch. And a 14th-level elf cleric. I am not going to throw that away.

http://www.wchstv.com/abc/ellen/higgins.jpg

patteeu

04-20-2007, 07:04 PM

Of course you are but I'm sure you don't want to admit it. The links (timeline) are there for his involvement and everyone else the Bush administration used, abused, propped up and threw away to lie this country into war. If you really are that ignorant to the information available, then all these links/facts should make good reading for you for a few days or weeks depending on your reading ability.

Like I said that the beginning of this thread, I'm not going to do your research for you and hunt through this mess for the needle in the haystack. If you want to articulate a specific Bush lie and lay out the evidence that you think makes the case (without throwing in a bunch of extraneous BS like the 1998 Chalabi/Ritter meeting that has nothing to do with Bush), then I'll address it. Until then, I'll assume you're just like all the others who believe Bush lied but who can't really identify any actual lies.

Bronco_Beerslug

04-20-2007, 07:32 PM

Like I said that the beginning of this thread, I'm not going to do your research for you and hunt through this mess for the needle in the haystack. If you want to articulate a specific Bush lie and lay out the evidence that you think makes the case (without throwing in a bunch of extraneous BS like the 1998 Chalabi/Ritter meeting that has nothing to do with Bush), then I'll address it. Until then, I'll assume you're just like all the others who believe Bush lied but who can't really identify any actual lies.
Ha!
There they are in front of your face and you pretend you don't see them...........................classic!

I didn't really expect you to admit your boy is a liar since you have invested so much of your life and personal time in him and his cartel trying to explain the worst administration in modern history as botched intelligence.

Here's a few notable facts for you regarding your botched intelligence and/or hero from the links above.

----------------------------------------------------------
The year 2000

US agents in Germany never did a background check on Curveball, nor did they debrief him themselves until a year after the invasion. Nonetheless, President Bush and other senior US officials will cite his claims repeatedly in the run-up to the war.

In a presidential debate with Vice President Al Gore, George W. Bush says, "The Vice President believes in nation building. I would be very careful about using our troops as nation builders." He added that the US military was already "overextended in too many places," and ought to be used to "prevent war from happening in the first place." In the same campaign, VP candidate Cheney says the US stopped short of toppling Saddam Hussein, in 1991, so as to avoid being "an imperialist power, willy-nilly moving into capitals in that part of the world, taking down governments."

In a subsequent debate, Bush outlines his views on US power: "If we're an arrogant nation, they'll resent us. If we're a humble nation, but strong, they'll welcome us."

Supreme Court decides Gore v. Bush in Bush's favor.

The year 2001

Ken Lay is named to the Bush Energy Department transition team. Jack Abramoff is appointed to the transition team for the Department of the Interior. Abramoff's administrative assistant, Susan Ralston, is hired as an advisor to Karl Rove.

President Bush appoints Joe Allbaugh, a campaign aide from Texas, as head of FEMA. Allbaugh has no previous experience in disaster management.

"From the very beginning, there was a conviction that Saddam Hussein was a bad person and that he needed to go." Saddam's removal is the first item of Bush's inaugural national security meeting. Then-Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill later tells journalist Ron Suskind, "It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying, 'Go find me a way to do this.'"
Bush also says the emphasis on Iraq will accompany a de-emphasis on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Secretary of State Colin Powell says US disengagement would give Ariel Sharon free rein and bring further suffering upon the Palestinians. According to Suskind's later book, "The One Percent Doctrine," Bush replies, "Sometimes a show of force by one side can really clarify things."

The Lone Bolt

04-20-2007, 07:57 PM

So let me get your logic straight Beerslug: if Bush said something innaccurate it's automatically a "lie"?

So every time you've said something innaccurate in your life it was also a "lie"? hmmm...

Bronco_Beerslug

04-20-2007, 08:03 PM

So let me get your logic straight Beerslug: if Bush said something innaccurate it's automatically a "lie"?
So every time you've said something innaccurate in your life it was also a "lie"? hmmm...
Ha!

Do yourself a favor and read through the complete timeline links I posted (It will take hours).

----------------------------------------------------------
2001 continued....

A United States submarine strikes a Japanese fishing boat off the coast of Hawaii, killing nine crewmembers, including four high-school students. Reports later show that civilians were on board the submarine, with two actually at the controls at the time of the accident. Speculation abounds that the civilians were Republican political donors affiliated with the Texas oil industry.

Exxon vice president James Rouse meets with Dick Cheney's task force on energy policy. It was the first meeting in which, according to a White House document later discovered by the Washington Post, oil executives "gave detailed energy policy recommendations" to the White House.

US and British jets bomb targets outside the Iraqi no-fly zone, near Baghdad. Bush says the strikes are intended "to send a clear signal to Saddam."

Colin Powell, on a visit to Egypt, says that Saddam Hussein "has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors."

L. Paul "Jerry" Bremer, former chairman of the National Commission on Terrorism and later head of the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq, comments presciently at a conference, "The new administration seems to be paying no attention to the problem of terrorism. What they will do is stagger along until there's a major incident and then suddenly say, `Oh, my God, shouldn't we be organized to deal with this?'

A Pentagon document dated March 5, 2001 and titled "Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oilfield Contracts" includes a map of areas for potential exploration. It is brought to light by Ron Suskind in his book "The Price of Loyalty." "It talks about contractors around the world from, you know, 30-40 countries," Suskind will tell CBS. "And which ones have what intentions on oil in Iraq."

Chairman of Conoco Archie Dunham meets with Cheney's energy task force.

Energy task force staffers meet with BP regional president Bob Malone, BP chief economist Peter Davies, and two BP employees.

Mohammad Atta allegedly meets with senior Iraqi intelligence officials at the Iraqi embassy in Prague. The 9/11 Report (Section 7) will later debunk this claim: "The FBI has gathered evidence indicating that Atta was in Virginia Beach on April 4 (as evidenced by a bank surveillance camera photo), and in Coral Springs, Florida, on April 11, where he leased an apartment. On April 6, 9, 10, and 11, Atta's cellular telephone was used numerous times to call various lodging establishments in Florida from cell sites within Florida. No evidence has been found that Atta was in the Czech Republic in April 2001." Dick Cheney will nevertheless repeatedly invoke the meeting as evidence of a link between Al Qaeda and Saddam.

A report containing research provided by a CIA analyst known only as Joe reaches top Bush administration officials. It claims that aluminum tubes being sought by Iraq are meant for uranium centrifuges. The assessment is immediately challenged by the Energy Department, which builds centrifuges and runs the government's nuclear weapons programs. The New York Times in 2004 will report, "The next day, Energy Department officials ticked off a long list of reasons why the tubes did not appear well suited for centrifuges. Simply put, the analysis concluded that the tubes were the wrong size - too narrow, too heavy, too long - to be of much practical use in a centrifuge."

Conoco official Alan Huffman and officials from the US Oil and Gas Association meet with Cheney's energy task force. Huffman will later confirm the meeting, saying, "We met in the Executive Office Building, if I remember correctly."

Royal Dutch/Shell Group chairman Sir Mark Moody-Stuart and Shell Oil chairman Steven Miller meet with task force staffers.

According to Richard Clarke's "Against All Enemies," Paul Wolfowitz challenges Clarke at a meeting: "You give bin Laden too much credit. He could not do all these things like the 1993 attack in New York, not without a state sponsor. Just because FBI and CIA have failed to find the linkages doesn't mean that they don't exist."

Bronco_Beerslug

04-20-2007, 08:56 PM

2001 continued...

The first members of the "Lackawanna Six," young Yemeni men raised in Lackawanna, NY, leave for Afghanistan. A few weeks later, the others will follow. In an Al Qaeda training camp, they have a brief encounter with Osama bin Laden and his deputy Ayman al-Zawahiri. One of the members, increasingly uneasy, fakes a leg injury to get out. The others soon follow.

The Energy Department proposes an alternative explanation for the aluminum tubes that CIA analyst "Joe" claims are for nuclear purposes. According to a later New York Times account, "It turned out, [the Department of Energy] reported, that Iraq had for years used high-strength aluminum tubes to make combustion chambers for slim rockets fired from launcher pods. Back in 1996, inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Agency had even examined some of those tubes, also made of 7075-T6 aluminum, at a military complex, the Nasser metal fabrication plant in Baghdad, where the Iraqis acknowledged making rockets. According to the international agency, the rocket tubes, some 66,000 of them, were 900 millimeters in length, with a diameter of 81 millimeters and walls 3.3 millimeters thick. The tubes now sought by Iraq had precisely the same dimensions - a perfect match."

On or around this date, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice is briefed by CIA director George Tenet and counterterrorism chief J. Cofer Black about terror threats. Bob Woodward, in his book "State of Denial," reports that Tenet and Black decided they had to request a dramatic, "out-of-cycle" meeting with Rice to convey their anxiety over the chance of an attack against American interests, possibly within the United States. It was, according to Woodward, the "starkest warning they had given the White House" on bin Laden and Al Qaeda. Rice, in Woodward's account, was "polite," but Tenet and Black "felt the brush-off."

When Woodward's book came out in October 2006, Rice denied that the meeting--which the State Dept. confirmed took place--was exceptional, and disputed Woodward's characterization. "What I am quite certain of is that I would remember if I was told, as this account apparently says, that there was about to be an attack in the United States," she said. [A]nd the idea that I would somehow have ignored that I find incomprehensible."

Presidential Daily Briefing handed to Bush: "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US." FBI information, it said, "indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York." Ron Suskind's book "The One Percent Doctrine" will report that a CIA officer flew to Bush's ranch to call the President's attention to the document. After the briefing, Bush said, "All right. You've covered your ass, now."

A team of scientists at the Energy Department revisits the question of the aluminum tubes after US intelligence intercepts a shipment. They raise significant doubts in a "Technical Intelligence Note." The New York Times later summarizes: "First, in size and material, the tubes were very different from those Iraq had used in its centrifuge prototypes before the first Gulf War. Those models used tubes that were nearly twice as wide and made of exotic materials that performed far better than aluminum .. Their walls were three times too thick for 'favorable use' in a centrifuge .. They were also anodized, meaning they had a special coating to protect them from weather. Anodized tubes, the team pointed out, are 'not consistent' with a uranium centrifuge because the coating can produce bad reactions with uranium gas. In other words, [if the Iraqis intended the tubes for use in building centrifuges, it meant they had] chosen to forsake years of promising centrifuge work and instead start from scratch, with inferior material built to less-than-optimal dimensions."

Iraqi defector Curveball, granted asylum in Germany, ceases cooperating with German intelligence officials. The CIA assures the Germans that they have other sources that corroborate Curveball's claims - that Iraq has at least seven mobile factories brewing biological poisons. The reality is that they have three, and all three will be proven to be frauds. Two have connections to Ahmed Chalabi.

In a lengthy speech to Pentagon workers, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld says that there is an "adversary that poses a threat, a serious threat, to the security of the United States of America." Rumsfeld says it is an enemy "more subtle and more implacable" than the former Soviet Union, and is "closer to home" than "the last decrepit dictators of the world." He is speaking of Pentagon bureaucracy.

The National Security Agency intercepts a message (translated Sept. 12): "The match is about to begin" and "Tomorrow is the zero hour." Three years later it will be revealed that the FBI still hasn't translated 120,000 hours of potentially valuable terrorism-related recordings.

Al Qaeda attacks the United States. Almost 3,000 people die in two attacks on the World Trade Center in New York City, one attack on the Pentagon in Washington D.C., and on an airliner that crashes in rural Pennsylvania. Dick Cheney issues a shoot-down order that is too late to be of any use, claiming that he did so after speaking via phone with the President. The 9/11 Commission will be unable to find evidence of the call.

A note from an aide who was with the Secretary of Defense at the National Military Command Center shows that just five hours after the attacks Rumsfeld says, "Best info fast. Judge whether good enough to hit S.H. at same time. Not only UBL Go massive. Sweep it all up. Things related and not."

A member of the "Lackawanna Six" - a group of young Yemeni men raised in New York State who met with bin Laden at an al Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan in May 2001 - calls a local FBI agent to offer his assistance.

According to Richard Clarke's book, "Against All Enemies," Bush collars Clarke and says, "I know you have a lot to do and all, but I want you, as soon as you can, to go back over everything, everything. See if Saddam did this. See if he's linked in any way." Clarke responds, "But, Mr. President, Al Qaeda did this." Bush tells him, "I know, I know, but -- see if Saddam was involved. Just look. I want to know any shred...."

The United States greatly expands the practice of "extraordinary rendition" whereby individuals suspected of having information are sent to countries known to torture prisoners.

MR. RUSSERT [Meet the Press]: Do we have any evidence linking Saddam Hussein or Iraqis to [9/11]?
VICE PRES. CHENEY: No.

Six days after the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush signs a document outlining the war on terror. In a minor note, the document directs the Pentagon to begin planning military options for an invasion of Iraq. He also signs a "sweeping finding that gave the CIA broad authorization to disrupt terrorist activity, including permission to kill, capture and detain members of al Qaeda anywhere in the world," according to a later account in the Washington Post.

In a move a federal judge will later call "conscience-shocking," EPA chief Christine Todd Whitman announces that the thousands of pounds of hazardous materials released into the air after the World Trade Center collapse pose no health risk to residents of the area around Ground Zero. It is the third time since the attacks that the EPA has issued such a sentiment. Subsequent news reports and lawsuits will show that Whitman acted at the behest of the White House, and that relevant studies had not been completed. Tens of thousands of people suffer "debilitating health problems" related to the attacks, according to Newsweek.

Spider

04-20-2007, 09:15 PM

So let me get your logic straight Beerslug: if Bush said something innaccurate it's automatically a "lie"?

So every time you've said something innaccurate in your life it was also a "lie"? hmmm...

Let me guess , you was voted the best and the brightest in your special ed class ........... Most of us would be careful about our wording if our words could lead to a war ...........I just wish you guys on the right would use your ****ing head for something besides a hat rack

Bronco Bob

04-20-2007, 09:44 PM

Let me guess , you was voted the best and the brightest in your special ed class ........... Most of us would be careful about our wording if our words could lead to a war ...........I just wish you guys on the right would use your ****ing head for something besides a hat rack

The most amazing thing about this particular thread is that Slug went through
all this time and effort for a Cheeps troll that isn't even going to read it anyway.

The Lone Bolt

04-21-2007, 12:14 AM

Let me guess , you was voted the best and the brightest in your special ed class ........... Most of us would be careful about our wording if our words could lead to a war ...........I just wish you guys on the right would use your ****ing head for something besides a hat rack

You guessed wrong. I have two college degrees (B.A. and M.A.) and graduated in the top 5% at Berkeley. How are your academic credentials?

I'm making the point that Beerslug hasn't conclusively proven that Bush "lied". Can either your or BBS present just one example of Bush saying something that he knew at the time was untrue with conclusive evidence to that effect? I see nothing here but circumstantial evidence and that is the objective truth that you are in denial of.

Until then you have a theory, not a fact. And if you want to debate the difference between theory and fact I'd be happy to oblige.

Spider

04-21-2007, 12:57 AM

You guessed wrong. I have two college degrees (B.A. and M.A.) and graduated in the top 5% at Berkeley. How are your academic credentials?

I'm making the point that Beerslug hasn't conclusively proven that Bush "lied". Can either your or BBS present just one example of Bush saying something that he knew at the time was untrue with conclusive evidence to that effect? I see nothing here but circumstantial evidence and that is the objective truth that you are in denial of.

Until then you have a theory, not a fact. And if you want to debate the difference between theory and fact I'd be happy to oblige.

an educated Idiot ...........Sure BB has , you just dont want to see it , Bush is the president , he is the head honcho , the Big cheese , the top dog , the big wig , He should have been damn sure before commiting to war , so now put your BA , Ma and your B.S. ( Bullshít ) to work and learn what it means to be responsible for your actions ...........

snowspot66

04-21-2007, 01:50 AM

I'm not gonna debate Bush's intelligence or lack of it. I'm not gonna debate responsibility or anything. It's his and it's a massive cluster****. If I had my way Bush would be gone and nobody would ever speak of him ever again.

But I have to agree. I haven't read through it all and don't plan to but going off of what was put forth in the posts... Just because it's a colossal disaster, it's his responsibility, and he needs to man up to it, doesn't mean he was lying. I find it incredibly hard to believe that Bush and the crew isn't full of **** more often than not but what I'm seeing put forth here doesn't read like lies to me.

It's definately him reaching for an excuse and any sorry ass reason to start it all. I don't read it as lies so much as irresponsible recklessness and clouded judgement made worse by arrogance.

Blueflame

04-21-2007, 02:04 AM

You guessed wrong. I have two college degrees (B.A. and M.A.) and graduated in the top 5% at Berkeley. How are your academic credentials?

I'm making the point that Beerslug hasn't conclusively proven that Bush "lied". Can either your or BBS present just one example of Bush saying something that he knew at the time was untrue with conclusive evidence to that effect? I see nothing here but circumstantial evidence and that is the objective truth that you are in denial of.

Until then you have a theory, not a fact. And if you want to debate the difference between theory and fact I'd be happy to oblige.
How about Bush's claims that he hasn't imbibed alcohol since 1986? Would the videotape of him drinking at a wedding six years later (link to that video on the following url) qualify that claim as a "lie"? Or the gossip that he's still drinking? I'd say continuing to say something that's patently false is, in fact, a lie.

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2007/04/20/e-online-reports-bush-marriage-trouble

The Lone Bolt

04-21-2007, 02:34 PM

How about Bush's claims that he hasn't imbibed alcohol since 1986? Would the videotape of him drinking at a wedding six years later (link to that video on the following url) qualify that claim as a "lie"? Or the gossip that he's still drinking? I'd say continuing to say something that's patently false is, in fact, a lie.

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2007/04/20/e-online-reports-bush-marriage-trouble

OK I watched the video. First let me refer you to the DSM-IV-TR definition of alcohol intoxication. The DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders) is the source used by mental health professionals to diagnose mental disorders, including substance-related disorders such as alcohol intoxication:

Diagnostic criteria for 303.00 Alcohol Intoxication
(cautionary statement)

A. Recent ingestion of alcohol.

B. Clinically significant maladaptive behavioral or psychological changes (e.g., inappropriate sexual or aggressive behavior, mood lability, impaired judgment, impaired social or occupational functioning) that developed during, or shortly after, alcohol ingestion.

C. One (or more) of the following signs, developing during, or shortly after, alcohol use:
(1) slurred speech
(2) incoordination
(3) unsteady gait
(4) nystagmus (involuntary eye movement)
(5) impairment in attention or memory
(6) stupor or coma

D. The symptoms are not due to a general medical condition and are not better accounted for by another mental disorder.

http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/alcoholintoxication.htm

Now as a mental health professional I saw no evidence in that video of any of these criteria in Dubya. As a diagnostician I would not have enough evidence to Dx him as alcohol intoxicated. And although he did drink from a glass at the end of the video there is no exidence of the nature of that liquid. So I think the case that he was drunk at this party is pretty weak.

And the rest appears to be rumours.

Now if you can find another MH or medical professional who would Dx Dubya as intoxicated on the basis of this video I'd like to hear his/her case.

Blueflame

04-21-2007, 02:56 PM

OK I watched the video. First let me refer you to the DSM-IV-TR definition of alcohol intoxication. The DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders) is the source used by mental health professionals to diagnose mental disorders, including substance-related disorders such as alcohol intoxication:

http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/alcoholintoxication.htm

Now as a mental health professional I saw no evidence in that video of any of these criteria in Dubya. As a diagnostician I would not have enough evidence to Dx him as alcohol intoxicated. And although he did drink from a glass at the end of the video there is no exidence of the nature of that liquid. So I think the case that he was drunk at this party is pretty weak.

And the rest appears to be rumours.

Now if you can find another MH or medical professional who would Dx Dubya as intoxicated on the basis of this video I'd like to hear his/her case.

It would have been interesting to have administered a gaze-nystagmus test at that party. Bet he wouldn't have passed it.

Bronco_Beerslug

04-21-2007, 08:22 PM

I'm making the point that Beerslug hasn't conclusively proven that Bush "lied". Can either your or BBS present just one example of Bush saying something that he knew at the time was untrue with [U]conclusive evidence to that effect?
Right. Well, using your criteria no one is a liar. It 's obvious he never had verified intelligence to invade and occupy Iraq EVEN though he said he did. That is a LIE. It's not the only thing he lied about these last six years either. The links are all there but I know Bush supporters won't take the time to read them and inform themselves, evidenced by the posts in this thread.

----------------------------------------------------------
President George W. Bush on Nuclear Capabilities:

"The regime has the scientists and facilities to build nuclear weapons, and is seeking the materials needed to do so."
Source: President, House Leadership Agree on Iraq Resolution, White House (10/2/2002).

Explanation: This statement was misleading because it failed to acknowledge the intelligence community's deep division on the issue of whether Iraq was actively pursuing its nuclear program.

----------------------------------------------------

President George W. Bush on Chemical and Biological Weapons:

"We recently found two mobile biological weapons facilities which were capable of producing biological agents."
Source: President Talks to Troops in Qatar, White House (6/5/2003).

Explanation: This statement was misleading because it claimed the purpose of the trailers was to produce biological weapons without disclosing that engineers from the Defense Intelligence Agency who examined the trailers concluded that they were most likely used to produce hydrogen for artillery weather balloons.

------------------------------------------------------------------

President George W. Bush on Chemical and Biological Weapons:

"Here's what -- we've discovered a weapons system, biological labs, that Iraq denied she had, and labs that were prohibited under the U.N. resolutions."
Source: President Bush, Russian President Putin Sign Treaty of Moscow, White House (6/1/2003).

Explanation This statement was misleading because it claimed the purpose of the trailers was to produce biological weapons without disclosing that engineers from the Defense Intelligence Agency who examined the trailers concluded that they were most likely used to produce hydrogen for artillery weather balloons.

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President George W. Bush on Chemical and Biological Weapons:

"We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories. You remember when Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said, Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons. They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two. And we'll find more weapons as time goes on. But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them."
Source: Interview of the President by TVP, Poland, White House (5/29/2003).

Explanation: This statement was misleading because it claimed the purpose of the trailers was to produce biological weapons without disclosing that engineers from the Defense Intelligence Agency who examined the trailers concluded that they were most likely used to produce hydrogen for artillery weather balloons.

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President George W. Bush on Al-Qaeda:

"The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11, 2001 -- and still goes on. That terrible morning, 19 evil men -- the shock troops of a hateful ideology -- gave America and the civilized world a glimpse of their ambitions. They imagined, in the words of one terrorist, that September the 11th would be the 'beginning of the end of America.' By seeking to turn our cities into killing fields, terrorists and their allies believed that they could destroy this nation's resolve, and force our retreat from the world. They have failed."
Source: President Bush Announces Major Combat Operations in Iraq Have Ended, White House (5/1/2003).

Explanation: This statement was misleading because by referencing the September 11 attacks in conjunction with discussion of the war on terror in Iraq, it left the impression that Iraq was connected to September 11. In fact, President Bush himself in September 2003 acknowledged that "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September the 11th."

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President George W. Bush on Al-Qaeda:

"The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We've removed an ally of al Qaeda, and cut off a source of terrorist funding. And this much is certain: No terrorist network will gain weapons of mass destruction from the Iraqi regime, because the regime is no more."
Source: President Bush Announces Major Combat Operations in Iraq Have Ended, White House (5/1/2003).

Explanation: This statement was misleading because it suggested that Iraq was linked to al Qaeda. In fact, the U.S. intelligence community had conflicting evidence on this issue and was divided regarding whether there was an operational relationship.

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President George W. Bush on Al-Qaeda:

"The regime . . . has aided, trained and harbored terrorists, including operatives of al Qaeda. The danger is clear: using chemical, biological or, one day, nuclear weapons, obtained with the help of Iraq, the terrorists could fulfill their stated ambitions and kill thousands or hundreds of thousands of innocent people in our country, or any other."
Source: President Says Saddam Hussein Must Leave Iraq Within 48 Hours, White House (3/17/2003).

Explanation: This statement was misleading because it suggested that Iraq was providing support to al Qaeda. In fact, the U.S. intelligence community had conflicting evidence on this issue and was divided regarding whether there was an operational relationship. This statement also was misleading because it evoked the threat of Iraq providing al Qaeda with weapons of mass destruction. According to the National Intelligence Estimate, the intelligence community had "low confidence" in that scenario.

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President George W. Bush on Al-Qaeda:

"He has trained and financed al Qaeda-type organizations before, al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations."
Source: President George Bush Discusses Iraq in National Press Conference, White House (3/6/2003).

Explanation: This statement was misleading because it suggested that Iraq was providing support to al Qaeda. In fact, the U.S. intelligence community had conflicting evidence on this issue and was divided regarding whether there was an operational relationship.

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President George W. Bush on Urgent Threat:

"But the risk of doing nothing, the risk of the security of this country being jeopardized at the hands of a madman with weapons of mass destruction far exceeds the risks of any action we may be forced to take."
Source: President Meets with National Economic Council, White House (2/25/2003).

Explanation: This statement was misleading because it suggested that Iraq posed an urgent threat despite the fact that the U.S. intelligence community had deep divisions and divergent points of view regarding Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. As Director of Central Intelligence George Tenet noted in February 2004, "Let me be clear: analysts differed on several important aspects of these programs and those debates were spelled out in the Estimate. They never said there was an 'imminent' threat."

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President George W. Bush on Al-Qaeda:

"One of the greatest dangers we face is that weapons of mass destruction might be passed to terrorists who would not hesitate to use those weapons. Saddam Hussein has longstanding, direct and continuing ties to terrorist networks. Senior members of Iraq intelligence and al Qaeda have met at least eight times since the early 1990s. Iraq has sent bomb-making and document forgery experts to work with al Qaeda. Iraq has also provided al Qaeda with chemical and biological weapons training. And an al Qaeda operative was sent to Iraq several times in the late 1990s for help in aquiring poisons and gases. We also know that Iraq is harboring a terrorist network headed by a senior al Qaeda terrorist planner."
Source: President's Radio Address, White House (2/8/2003).

Explanation This statement was misleading because it asserted that Iraq was providing support to al Qaeda. In fact, the U.S. intelligence community had conflicting evidence on this issue and was divided regarding whether there was an operational relationship. The statement also was misleading because it evoked the threat of Iraq providing al Qaeda with weapons of mass destruction. According to the National Intelligence Estimate, the intelligence community had "low confidence" in that scenario.

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It goes on, and on, and on, and on. Anyone with a half a brain understands what he and his cartel did here and that is to lie this country into war.

Bronco_Beerslug

04-21-2007, 08:27 PM

Continued........

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<table align="center" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="95%"><tbody><tr><td class="recordTitle">The Bush Administration's Public Statements on Iraq</td></tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e9e9e9"> <table border="0" cellpadding="11" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td class="recordSpeaker">President George W. Bush on Al-Qaeda:</td> </tr> <tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="recordQuote">"Saddam Hussein has longstanding, direct and continuing ties to terrorist networks. Senior members of Iraqi intelligence and al Qaeda have met at least eight times since the early 1990s. Iraq has sent bomb-making and document forgery experts to work with al Qaeda. Iraq has also provided al Qaeda with chemical and biological weapons training. We also know that Iraq is harboring a terrorist network, headed by a senior al Qaeda terrorist planner."</td></tr> <tr> <td class="source">Source: President Bush: "World Can Rise to This Moment", White House (2/6/2003).</td> </tr> </tbody></table></td></tr> <tr> <td class="explanation"> <hr align="left" noshade="noshade" size="1" width="98%"> Explanation This statement was misleading because it asserted that Iraq was providing support to al Qaeda. In fact, the U.S. intelligence community had conflicting evidence on this issue and was divided regarding whether there was an operational relationship.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="95%"> <tbody><tr><td class="recordTitle">The Bush Administration's Public Statements on Iraq</td></tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e9e9e9"> <table border="0" cellpadding="11" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td class="recordSpeaker">President George W. Bush on Chemical and Biological Weapons:</td> </tr> <tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="recordQuote">"All the world has now seen the footage of an Iraqi Mirage aircraft with a fuel tank modified to spray biological agents over wide areas. Iraq has developed spray devices that could be used on unmanned aerial vehicals with ranges far beyond what is permitted by the Security Council. A UAV launched from a vessel off the American coast could reach hundreds of miles inland."</td></tr> <tr> <td class="source">Source: President Bush: "World Can Rise to This Moment", White House (2/6/2003).</td> </tr> </tbody></table></td></tr> <tr> <td class="explanation"> <hr align="left" noshade="noshade" size="1" width="98%"> Explanation This statement was misleading because it claimed that Iraq's UAVs were intended and able to spread biological weapons, including over the United States, but failed to mention that the U.S. government agency most knowledgeable about UAVs and their potential applications, the Air Force's National Air and Space Intelligence Center, had the following view: the "U.S. Air Force does not agree that Iraq is developing UAVs primarily intended to be delivery platforms for chemical and biological (CBW) agents."</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="95%"> <tbody><tr><td class="recordTitle">The Bush Administration's Public Statements on Iraq</td></tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e9e9e9"> <table border="0" cellpadding="11" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td class="recordSpeaker">President George W. Bush on Al-Qaeda:</td> </tr> <tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="recordQuote">"And the United States, along with a growing coalition of nations, is resolved to take whatever action is necessary to defend ourselves and disarm the Iraqi regime. September the 11th, 2001, the American people saw what terrorists could do by turning four airplanes into weapons. We will not wait to see what terrorists or terrorist states could do with chemical, biological, radiological or nuclear weapons."</td></tr> <tr> <td class="source">Source: President Bush: "World Can Rise to This Moment", White House (2/6/2003).</td> </tr> </tbody></table></td></tr> <tr> <td class="explanation"> <hr align="left" noshade="noshade" size="1" width="98%"> Explanation This statement was misleading because by referencing the September 11 attacks in conjunction with discussion of the war on terror in Iraq, it left the impression that Iraq was connected to September 11. In fact, President Bush himself in September 2003 acknowledged "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September the 11th." This statement also was misleading because it evoked the threat of Iraq providing terrorists who would attack the United States with weapons of mass destruction. According to the National Intelligence Estimate, the intelligence community had "low confidence" in that scenario, and Iraq appeared to be "drawing a line short of conducting terrorist attacks" against the United States for fear of providing cause for war.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="95%"> <tbody><tr><td class="recordTitle">The Bush Administration's Public Statements on Iraq</td></tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e9e9e9"> <table border="0" cellpadding="11" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td class="recordSpeaker">President George W. Bush on Nuclear Capabilities:</td> </tr> <tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="recordQuote">"Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production."</td></tr> <tr> <td class="source">Source: President Delivers "State of the Union", White House (1/28/2003).</td> </tr> </tbody></table></td></tr> <tr> <td class="explanation"> <hr align="left" noshade="noshade" size="1" width="98%"> Explanation This statement was misleading because it suggested that Iraq sought aluminum tubes for use in its nuclear weapons program, failing to mention that the government's most experienced technical experts at the U.S. Department of Energy concluded that the tubes were "poorly suited" for this purpose.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="95%"><tbody><tr><td class="recordTitle">The Bush Administration's Public Statements on Iraq</td></tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e9e9e9"> <table border="0" cellpadding="11" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td class="recordSpeaker">President George W. Bush on Al-Qaeda:</td> </tr> <tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="recordQuote">"Before September the 11th, many in the world believed that Saddam Hussein could be contained. But chemical agents, lethal viruses, and shadowy terrorist networks are not easily contained. Imagine those 19 hijackers with other weapons and other planes -- this time armed by Saddam Hussein. It would take one vial, one canister, one crate slipped into this country to bring a day of horror like none we have ever known."</td></tr> <tr> <td class="source">Source: President Delivers "State of the Union", White House (1/28/2003).</td> </tr> </tbody></table></td></tr> <tr> <td class="explanation"> <hr align="left" noshade="noshade" size="1" width="98%"> Explanation This statement was misleading because it evoked the threat of Iraq providing terrorists who would attack the United States with weapons of mass destruction. According to the National Intelligence Estimate, the intelligence community had "low confidence" in that scenario, and Iraq appeared to be "drawing a line short of conducting terrorist attacks" against the United States for fear of providing cause for war. This statement also was misleading because by referencing the September 11 attacks in conjunction with discussion of the war on terror in Iraq, it left the impression that Iraq was connected to September 11. In fact, President Bush himself in September 2003 acknowledge that "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September the 11th."</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

Bronco_Beerslug

04-21-2007, 08:30 PM

<table align="center" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="95%"><tbody><tr><td class="recordTitle">The Bush Administration's Public Statements on Iraq</td></tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e9e9e9"> <table border="0" cellpadding="11" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td class="recordSpeaker">President George W. Bush on Al-Qaeda:</td> </tr> <tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="recordQuote">"Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications, and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al Qaeda. Secretly, and without fingerprints, he could provide one of his hidden weapons to terrorists, or help develop their own."</td></tr> <tr> <td class="source">Source: President Delivers "State of the Union", White House (1/28/2003).</td> </tr> </tbody></table></td></tr> <tr> <td class="explanation"> <hr align="left" noshade="noshade" size="1" width="98%"> Explanation This statement was misleading because it evoked the threat of Iraq providing weapons to al Qaeda. According to the National Intelligence Estimate, the intelligence community had "low confidence" in that scenario.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="95%"> <tbody><tr><td class="recordTitle">The Bush Administration's Public Statements on Iraq</td></tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e9e9e9"> <table border="0" cellpadding="11" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td class="recordSpeaker">President George W. Bush on Nuclear Capabilities:</td> </tr> <tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="recordQuote">"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."</td></tr> <tr> <td class="source">Source: President Delivers "State of the Union", White House (1/28/2003).</td> </tr> </tbody></table></td></tr> <tr> <td class="explanation"> <hr align="left" noshade="noshade" size="1" width="98%"> Explanation This statement was misleading because it suggested that Iraq sought uranium from Africa despite the fact that the CIA expressed doubts about the credibility of this claim in two memos to the White House, including one addressed to National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice. CIA Director George Tenet also warned against using the claim in a telephone call to Ms. Rice's deputy. In addition, the statement fails to mention that State Department intelligence officials also concluded that this claim was "highly dubious."</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="95%"> <tbody><tr><td class="recordTitle">The Bush Administration's Public Statements on Iraq</td></tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e9e9e9"> <table border="0" cellpadding="11" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td class="recordSpeaker">President George W. Bush on Nuclear Capabilities:</td> </tr> <tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="recordQuote">"The [Iraqi] report also failed to deal with issues which have arisen since 1998, including: . . . attempts to acquire uranium and the means to enrich it."</td></tr> <tr> <td class="source">Source: Letter to Cheney/Senate, White House (1/20/2003).</td> </tr> </tbody></table></td></tr> <tr> <td class="explanation"> <hr align="left" noshade="noshade" size="1" width="98%"> Explanation This statement was misleading because it suggested that Iraq sought to acquire uranium despite the fact that the CIA expressed doubts about the credibility of this claim in two memos to the White House, including one addressed to National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice. CIA Director George Tenet also warned against using the claim in a telephone call to Ms. Rice's deputy. In addition, the statement fails to mention that State Department intelligence officials also concluded that this claim was "highly dubious."</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="95%"> <tbody><tr><td class="recordTitle">The Bush Administration's Public Statements on Iraq</td></tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e9e9e9"> <table border="0" cellpadding="11" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td class="recordSpeaker">President George W. Bush on Urgent Threat:</td> </tr> <tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="recordQuote">"Today the world is also uniting to answer the unique and urgent threat posed by Iraq. A dictator who has used weapons of mass destruction on his own people must not be allowed to produce or possess those weapons. We will not permit Saddam Hussein to blackmail and/or terrorize nations which love freedom."</td></tr> <tr> <td class="source">Source: President Bush Speaks to Atlantic Youth Council, CNN (11/20/2002).</td> </tr> </tbody></table></td></tr> <tr> <td class="explanation"> <hr align="left" noshade="noshade" size="1" width="98%"> Explanation This statement was misleading because it suggested that Iraq posed an urgent threat despite the fact that the U.S. intelligence community had deep divisions and divergent points of view regarding Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. As Director of Central Intelligence George Tenet noted in February 2004, "Let me be clear: analysts differed on several important aspects of these programs and those debates were spelled out in the Estimate. They never said there was an 'imminent' threat."</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="95%"><tbody><tr><td class="recordTitle">The Bush Administration's Public Statements on Iraq</td></tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e9e9e9"> <table border="0" cellpadding="11" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td class="recordSpeaker">President George W. Bush on Al-Qaeda:</td> </tr> <tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="recordQuote">"This [Saddam Hussein] is a person who has had contacts with al Qaeda."</td></tr> <tr> <td class="source">Source: President Bush Outlines Iraqi Threat; Remarks by the President on Iraq, White House (10/28/2002).</td> </tr> </tbody></table></td></tr> <tr> <td class="explanation"> <hr align="left" noshade="noshade" size="1" width="98%"> Explanation This statement was misleading because it suggested that Iraq was linked to al Qaeda. In fact, the U.S. intelligence community had conflicting evidence on this issue and was divided regarding whether there was an operational relationship.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

Bronco_Beerslug

04-21-2007, 08:30 PM

<table align="center" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="95%"><tbody><tr><td class="recordTitle">The Bush Administration's Public Statements on Iraq</td></tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e9e9e9"> <table border="0" cellpadding="11" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td class="recordSpeaker">President George W. Bush on Al-Qaeda:</td> </tr> <tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="recordQuote">"He's a threat because he is dealing with Al Qaida. In my Cincinnati speech I reminded the American people, a true threat facing our country is that an Al Qaida-type network trained and armed by Saddam could attack America and leave not one fingerprint."</td></tr> <tr> <td class="source">Source: President Outlines Priorities, White House (11/7/2002).</td> </tr> </tbody></table></td></tr> <tr> <td class="explanation"> <hr align="left" noshade="noshade" size="1" width="98%"> Explanation This statement was misleading because it suggested that Iraq was providing support to al Qaeda. In fact, the U.S. intelligence community had conflicting evidence on this issue and was divided regarding whether there was an operational relationship.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="95%"> <tbody><tr><td class="recordTitle">The Bush Administration's Public Statements on Iraq</td></tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e9e9e9"> <table border="0" cellpadding="11" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td class="recordSpeaker">President George W. Bush on Chemical and Biological Weapons:</td> </tr> <tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="recordQuote">"He said he wouldn't have chemical weapons, he's got them."</td></tr> <tr> <td class="source">Source: Remarks by the President at Missouri Welcome, White House (11/4/2002).</td> </tr> </tbody></table></td></tr> <tr> <td class="explanation"> <hr align="left" noshade="noshade" size="1" width="98%"> Explanation This statement was misleading because it professed certainty when the intelligence community provided only an "estimate." According to CIA Director George Tenet, "it is important to underline the word estimate. Because not everything we analyze can be known to a standard of absolute proof." In addition, the statement failed to acknowledge the Defense Intelligence Agency position that: "There is no reliable information on whether Iraq is producing and stockpiling chemical weapons or where Iraq has -- or will -- establish its chemical warfare agent production facilities."</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="95%"> <tbody><tr><td class="recordTitle">The Bush Administration's Public Statements on Iraq</td></tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e9e9e9"> <table border="0" cellpadding="11" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td class="recordSpeaker">President George W. Bush on Al-Qaeda:</td> </tr> <tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="recordQuote">"He's had contacts with Al Qaida. Imagine the scenario where an Al Qaida-type organization uses Iraq as an arsenal, a place to get weapons, a place to be trained to use the weapons. Saddam Hussein could use surrogates to come and attack people he hates."</td></tr> <tr> <td class="source">Source: Remarks by the President at Arkansas Welcome, White House (11/4/2002).</td> </tr> </tbody></table></td></tr> <tr> <td class="explanation"> <hr align="left" noshade="noshade" size="1" width="98%"> Explanation This statement was misleading because it suggested that Iraq was providing support to al Qaeda. In fact, the U.S. intelligence community had conflicting evidence on this issue and was divided regarding whether there was an operational relationship.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="95%"> <tbody><tr><td class="recordTitle">The Bush Administration's Public Statements on Iraq</td></tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e9e9e9"> <table border="0" cellpadding="11" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td class="recordSpeaker">President George W. Bush on Chemical and Biological Weapons:</td> </tr> <tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="recordQuote">"He said he wouldn't have chemical weapons, he's got them."</td></tr> <tr> <td class="source">Source: Remarks by the President at Arkansas Welcome, White House (11/4/2002).</td> </tr> </tbody></table></td></tr> <tr> <td class="explanation"> <hr align="left" noshade="noshade" size="1" width="98%"> Explanation This statement was misleading because it professed certainty when the intelligence community provided only an "estimate." According to CIA Director George Tenet, "it is important to underline the word estimate. Because not everything we analyze can be known to a standard of absolute proof." In addition, the statement failed to acknowledge the Defense Intelligence Agency position that: "There is no reliable information on whether Iraq is producing and stockpiling chemical weapons or where Iraq has -- or will -- establish its chemical warfare agent production facilities."</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
<table align="center" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="95%"><tbody><tr><td class="recordTitle">The Bush Administration's Public Statements on Iraq</td></tr> <tr> <td bgcolor="#e9e9e9"> <table border="0" cellpadding="11" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td class="recordSpeaker">President George W. Bush on Al-Qaeda:</td> </tr> <tr><td>http://www.bushoniraq.com/img_spacer.gif</td></tr> <tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="recordQuote">"This is a man who has had Al Qaida connections. I want you to think about a scenario in which he becomes the arsenal and the training grounds for shadowy terrorists so that he can attack somebody who (sic) hates and not leave any fingerprints behind. He is a threat."</td></tr> <tr> <td class="source">Source: Remarks by the President at Missouri Welcome, White House (11/4/2002).</td> </tr> </tbody></table></td></tr> <tr> <td class="explanation"> <hr align="left" noshade="noshade" size="1" width="98%"> Explanation This statement was misleading because it suggested that Iraq was linked to al Qaeda. In fact, the U.S. intelligence community had conflicting evidence on this issue and was divided regarding whether there was an operational relationship.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

W*GS

04-21-2007, 08:46 PM

NEWS FLASH

Bush lied!

Now, on to the other equally amazing news of the day...

THE SUN ROSE IN THE EAST

patteeu

04-22-2007, 12:47 PM

Ha!
There they are in front of your face and you pretend you don't see them...........................classic!

I didn't really expect you to admit your boy is a liar since you have invested so much of your life and personal time in him and his cartel trying to explain the worst administration in modern history as botched intelligence.

Here's a few notable facts for you regarding your botched intelligence and/or hero from the links above.

----------------------------------------------------------
The year 2000

US agents in Germany never did a background check on Curveball, nor did they debrief him themselves until a year after the invasion. Nonetheless, President Bush and other senior US officials will cite his claims repeatedly in the run-up to the war.

In a presidential debate with Vice President Al Gore, George W. Bush says, "The Vice President believes in nation building. I would be very careful about using our troops as nation builders." He added that the US military was already "overextended in too many places," and ought to be used to "prevent war from happening in the first place." In the same campaign, VP candidate Cheney says the US stopped short of toppling Saddam Hussein, in 1991, so as to avoid being "an imperialist power, willy-nilly moving into capitals in that part of the world, taking down governments."

In a subsequent debate, Bush outlines his views on US power: "If we're an arrogant nation, they'll resent us. If we're a humble nation, but strong, they'll welcome us."

Supreme Court decides Gore v. Bush in Bush's favor.

The year 2001

Ken Lay is named to the Bush Energy Department transition team. Jack Abramoff is appointed to the transition team for the Department of the Interior. Abramoff's administrative assistant, Susan Ralston, is hired as an advisor to Karl Rove.

President Bush appoints Joe Allbaugh, a campaign aide from Texas, as head of FEMA. Allbaugh has no previous experience in disaster management.

"From the very beginning, there was a conviction that Saddam Hussein was a bad person and that he needed to go." Saddam's removal is the first item of Bush's inaugural national security meeting. Then-Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill later tells journalist Ron Suskind, "It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying, 'Go find me a way to do this.'"
Bush also says the emphasis on Iraq will accompany a de-emphasis on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Secretary of State Colin Powell says US disengagement would give Ariel Sharon free rein and bring further suffering upon the Palestinians. According to Suskind's later book, "The One Percent Doctrine," Bush replies, "Sometimes a show of force by one side can really clarify things."

I'd think that if it were so clear that Bush lied us into war, you'd be able to point out specific examples instead of overworking your cut-and-paste fingers to produce a blizzard of nonexamples that just waste my time. I read through this post and didn't see a single responsive item. You might as well drop a link to google.com and tell me to search for the examples myself.

patteeu

04-22-2007, 01:53 PM

Mohammad Atta allegedly meets with senior Iraqi intelligence officials at the Iraqi embassy in Prague. The 9/11 Report (Section 7) will later debunk this claim: "The FBI has gathered evidence indicating that Atta was in Virginia Beach on April 4 (as evidenced by a bank surveillance camera photo), and in Coral Springs, Florida, on April 11, where he leased an apartment. On April 6, 9, 10, and 11, Atta's cellular telephone was used numerous times to call various lodging establishments in Florida from cell sites within Florida. No evidence has been found that Atta was in the Czech Republic in April 2001." Dick Cheney will nevertheless repeatedly invoke the meeting as evidence of a link between Al Qaeda and Saddam.

A report containing research provided by a CIA analyst known only as Joe reaches top Bush administration officials. It claims that aluminum tubes being sought by Iraq are meant for uranium centrifuges. The assessment is immediately challenged by the Energy Department, which builds centrifuges and runs the government's nuclear weapons programs. The New York Times in 2004 will report, "The next day, Energy Department officials ticked off a long list of reasons why the tubes did not appear well suited for centrifuges. Simply put, the analysis concluded that the tubes were the wrong size - too narrow, too heavy, too long - to be of much practical use in a centrifuge."

This is slightly better, although I still had to dig through your fluff to find two items that you might possibly consider Bush administration lies. The Atta/Prague connection and the aluminum tubes controversies. Let's take them one at a time.

1) Atta/Prague

It's true that the 9/11 commission concluded that Mohammed Atta did not meet with Iraqi agents in Prague on August 8 or 9 in Prague. They come to this conclusion on the basis of some pretty flimsy evidence, however. Atta is identified fairly conclusively in Virginia Beach on August 4 and then again in Florida on August 11. In between those two dates, the only evidence that places Atta in the US are cell phone records. Given that he would not be able to use his American cell phone in Europe, why would he take it with him on his trip to Prague? Given that he had a co-conspirator for a roommate, isn't it at least possible that someone else used his phone while he was away? Sure it is. Having said that, the evidence that he was actually in Prague is not conclusive either although it's not nonexistant. On the one hand, we have cellular phone records that suggest Atta might not have left the country. On the other hand, we have Czech intelligence saying that they have an eyewitness who places Atta in Prague. I don't think the 9/11 commission lied when they decided, for whatever reason, the phone records were more compelling. But the administration officials who found the Czech intelligence revelation more compelling were not lying either. At worst, it's a case of one assessment being accepted because it was more convenient than the other and at best, it's an honest assimilation of the conflicting inputs. The one thing that it isn't, is a lie, unless you are aware of facts that I haven't included that would have made it clear that Atta wasn't in Prague.

2. Aluminum tubes.

This is an easy one. The 2002 NIE indicated that the intelligence community consensus was that the aluminum tubes were for use in the Iraqi nuclear program. The NIE also included a footnote that contained the dissenting opinion from the Energy Department. Bush critics like to ignore the consensus and pretend that the dissent was the only finding provided to decisionmakers. It's typical of the dishonesty of those who try to smear the administration with the Bush Lied People Died slander. Here is an unclassified version (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB129/nie_first%20release.pdf) of the NIE and the relevant quote from that document:

Iraq’s aggressive attempts to obtain proscribed high-strength aluminum tubes are of significant concern. All intelligence experts agree that Iraq is seeking nuclear weapons and that these tubes could be used in a centrifuge enrichment program. Most intelligence specialists assess this to be the intended use, but some believe that these tubes are probably intended for conventional weapons programs.

You might have a complaint about the quality of the intelligence here, but you don't have the makings of a Bush administration lie.

patteeu

04-22-2007, 01:57 PM

The most amazing thing about this particular thread is that Slug went through
all this time and effort for a Cheeps troll that isn't even going to read it anyway.

As a service to you and any other dim bulbs we have around here, let me point out that cut-and-paste requires almost no effort at all. I'm asking beerslug to provide less not more, but I'm also asking him to put in enough effort so that what he does provide is at least relevant to the issue of so-called Bush lies (for his Iraqi Grudge Match, haha).

patteeu

04-22-2007, 02:03 PM

Can we read anything into the fact that Beerslug appears afraid to focus in on a single example? I think we can.

As much as I get frustrated with Blueflame's amazing leaps of logic (or complete abandonment at times), I at least find her ability to focus on one issue at a time somewhat praiseworthy.

Bronco_Beerslug

04-23-2007, 09:45 AM

Can we read anything into the fact that Beerslug appears afraid to focus in on a single example?
Uh, this is a single example (Bush lying us into war) with many links to reference and facts that support it. My focus seems to be pretty "focused" where your focus seems to be a little scattered. You're not too good at this really, are you?

The Lone Bolt

04-23-2007, 03:04 PM

Right. Well, using your criteria no one is a liar. It 's obvious he never had verified intelligence to invade and occupy Iraq EVEN though he said he did. That is a LIE.

If he thought that he had verified intelligence but didn't do a good enough job of looking into it then it's incompetence, not a "lie".

And my criteria is perfefctly reasonable. You have been describing as a FACT that Bush "lied". If it is a FACT that he lied then you must have evidence that leaves no plausible alternative explanations. Anything short of that is not a fact but a theory or opinion. This is not just my personal standard.

An opinion will involve a judgement about the worth or
value of something, whereas a fact has evidence to prove it . . . Opinions will be deduced as involving an interpretation or explanations for something or some happening which may seem logical but may have
legitimate variations of interpretation.

http://www.col-ed.org/cur/sst/sst161.txt

Per Wikipedia:

An opinion is a person's ideas and thoughts towards something. It is an assessment, judgment or evaluation of something. An opinion is not a fact, because opinions are either not falsifiable, or the opinion has not been proven or verified. If it later becomes proven or verified, it is no longer an opinion, but a fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion

In science

In science a fact is an objective and verifiable observation, in contrast with a theory, which is an explanation of or interpretation of facts. . .

In investigations

An item of information that can be verified as either TRUE or FALSE. For example, the statement "the President is standing in the back of the classroom" is a fact because it can be verified as true or false by turning around and looking. In this context, "fact" does not imply truthfulness - only objectivity. If it is subjective (" The President is a snappy dresser") then it is either an opinion or a conclusion and cannot be verified.['Language in Thought and Action'; S.I. Hayakawa]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fact

Once again this is not my standard of what constitutes a "fact" and an opinion or theory. Note that the term "explanation", which you use repeatedly in your "evidence", is associated with a "theory" and not a fact.

What you have is not proof but circumstantial evidence:

Direct Evidence is testimony or other proof which expressly or straight-forwardly proves the existence of a fact. It is different from circumstantial evidence, which is evidence that, without going directly to prove the existence of a fact, gives rise to a logical inference that such fact does exist.

Direct evidence is evidence which, if believed, proves the existence of the fact in issue without inference or presumption. It is evidence which comes from one who speaks directly of his or her own knowledge on the main or ultimate fact to be proved, or who saw or heard the factual matters which are the subject of the testimony.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_evidence

So direct evidence is a form of proof, and indirect evidence, which you have relied on exclusively for your argument, is not.

For example:

President George W. Bush on Nuclear Capabilities:

"The regime has the scientists and facilities to build nuclear weapons, and is seeking the materials needed to do so."
Source: President, House Leadership Agree on Iraq Resolution, White House (10/2/2002).

Explanation: This statement was misleading because it failed to acknowledge the intelligence community's deep division on the issue of whether Iraq was actively pursuing its nuclear program.

Now compare this to the definition of "lie":

A lie is an untruthful statement made to someone else with the intention to deceive. To lie is to say something one believes to be false with the intention that it be taken for the truth by someone else. A liar is a person who is known to have a tendency to tell lies.

So by definition a "lie" requires intent to decieve, and a fact requires "proof" (direct evidence), therefore in order to describe as a FACT that a statement is a "lie", there must be "proof" (direct evidence) of a "lie", in other words, conclusive (direct) evidence of intentional deception which leaves no plausible alternative explanation.

The above example contains no direct evidence that Bush made "an untruthful statement" with "the intention to deceive" therefore it is not "evidence" of a lie.

Get it?

Bronco_Beerslug

04-23-2007, 03:12 PM

Only the ignorant and the few Bush backers left think Bush didn't "intetionally decieve" Americans (lie) to take them to war. But I understand you and patty are Bush apologists' so this isn't surprising at all that you still support this cartel of thiefs and liars.

The Lone Bolt

04-23-2007, 03:31 PM

Only the ignorant and the few Bush backers left think Bush didn't "intetionally decieve" Americans (lie) to take them to war. But I understand you and patty are Bush apologists' so this isn't surprising at all that you still support this cartel of thiefs and liars.

Only trying to keep things fair and objective. I'm a big believer in presumed innocence. It is one of the most moral principles that any society can aspire to. And I believe that it applies to everyone.

All I'm saying is let's not convict the man until we can say beyond any reasonable doubt that he is guilty. I'm sorry that you find my position so unreasonable.

Let me ask you something Beerslug: do you believe in presumed guilt? Or do you believe that presumed innocence should be selectively applied to some people and not to others?

Garcia Bronco

04-23-2007, 03:37 PM

Uh, this is a single example (Bush lying us into war) with many links to reference and facts that support it. My focus seems to be pretty "focused" where your focus seems to be a little scattered. You're not too good at this really, are you?

But that's only if you focus a focused focus. I believe that sometimes a focus on unfocused focus is equally important.

TailgateNut

04-23-2007, 04:23 PM

Only trying to keep things fair and objective. I'm a big believer in presumed innocence. It is one of the most moral principles that any society can aspire to. And I believe that it applies to everyone.

All I'm saying is let's not convict the man until we can say beyond any reasonable doubt that he is guilty. I'm sorry that you find my position so unreasonable.

Let me ask you something Beerslug: do you believe in presumed guilt? Or do you believe that presumed innocence should be selectively applied to some people and not to others?

The "pressumed innocent" principle IMO is only as good as the paper it's written on. My problem with the whole process is that once charged, one must retain an attorney to defend against the charges at a substantial cost which, unless it is a civil suit, cannot be recouped.
So, IMO, one is in fact "guilty" until one proves to the court he/she is innocent.

Bottom line: Guilty until proven innocent is the law of the land!

Bronco_Beerslug

04-23-2007, 04:45 PM

Only trying to keep things fair and objective. I'm a big believer in presumed innocence. It is one of the most moral principles that any society can aspire to. And I believe that it applies to everyone.

All I'm saying is let's not convict the man until we can say beyond any reasonable doubt that he is guilty. I'm sorry that you find my position so unreasonable.

Let me ask you something Beerslug: do you believe in presumed guilt? Or do you believe that presumed innocence should be selectively applied to some people and not to others?I believe in gathering as much information and facts available and making intelligent decisions based on that information, unlike the current Bush cartel.

Blueflame

04-23-2007, 09:00 PM

I believe in gathering as much information and facts available and making intelligent decisions based on that information, unlike the current Bush cartel.
The current Bush cartel goes about things in a different order... they make a decision, then start gathering information and facts, cherrypicking the ones that can be spun to support the already-made decision while rejecting any evidence that contradicts it. Then the news release is fed to the corporate media, which dutifully reads Rove's memo verbatim, presenting it as fact... next, the rightwing radio shills immediately launch into a hysterical frenzy to sell the administration's spin.

patteeu

04-24-2007, 11:37 AM

I was excited when I saw that there had been so many new posts added to this thread since the last time I was here. Imagine my disappointment when I found that not a single one of them was Beerslug picking out a specific "lie" for us to discuss.

This thread has been a major disappointment to me. The title grabbed my attention, but it went straight over the cliff from there in terms of content. I can see now why some folks think that Beerslug's thread creation privilege ought to be revoked. My advice to Beerslug is to concentrate more on quality and less on quantity.

Bronco_Beerslug

07-06-2007, 01:37 PM

I was excited when I saw that there had been so many new posts added to this thread since the last time I was here. Imagine my disappointment when I found that not a single one of them was Beerslug picking out a specific "lie" for us to discuss.

This thread has been a major disappointment to me. The title grabbed my attention, but it went straight over the cliff from there in terms of content. I can see now why some folks think that Beerslug's thread creation privilege ought to be revoked. My advice to Beerslug is to concentrate more on quality and less on quantity.It's multiple choice pattytoo, take your pick of any of the hundreds posted.

President George W. Bush on Nuclear Capabilities:
"Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production."
Source: President Delivers "State of the Union", White House (1/28/2003).

Rigs11

07-06-2007, 02:14 PM

i think we should have bush and his cronies testify under oath on this IRAQ fiasco. Oh wait they wont.You Bush apologists are so fearful of being wrong that you come up with these ridicoulous excuses for backing up this imbecile.He is shetting all over everything this country stands for. Patriots my ass.

The Lone Bolt

07-06-2007, 02:56 PM

i think we should have bush and his cronies testify under oath on this IRAQ fiasco. Oh wait they wont.You Bush apologists are so fearful of being wrong that you come up with these ridicoulous excuses for backing up this imbecile.He is shetting all over everything this country stands for. Patriots my ass.

Jeez just like LABF: thinking in rigid stereotypes. I'd be more than happy to see bush and his gaggle of idiots be hauled into court to testify. And if a jury found him guilty of lying I would be more than happy to admit it.

My position is not that bush didn't lie, only that A) the evidence is not compelling that he did and B) dubya hasn't had his day in court and until then he is entitled to the benefit of the doubt JUST LIKE ALL OF THE REST OF US.

I'm sorry you think that my belief that dubya is entitled to a fair trial before being declared guilty makes me a "bush apologist". I think it makes me a believer in constitutional rights.

Rigs11

07-06-2007, 03:34 PM

Jeez just like LABF: thinking in rigid stereotypes. I'd be more than happy to see bush and his gaggle of idiots be hauled into court to testify. And if a jury found him guilty of lying I would be more than happy to admit it.

My position is not that bush didn't lie, only that A) the evidence is not compelling that he did and B) dubya hasn't had his day in court and until then he is entitled to the benefit of the doubt JUST LIKE ALL OF THE REST OF US.

I'm sorry you think that my belief that dubya is entitled to a fair trial before being declared guilty makes me a "bush apologist". I think it makes me a believer in constitutional rights.

I see. So common sense goes out the window?And the whole point is that they wont testify, hiding something? By the way how do you feel about all those people in gitmo, that have never been tried and have no access to a lawyer? Now before you go spewing about how they are not americans and don't deserve constituional rights, the patriot act is not specific to wethere you are americans or not. All they have to do is label you an enemy combatant and your constitutional rights go right out the window. Scary isn't it?

The Lone Bolt

07-06-2007, 04:29 PM

I see. So common sense goes out the window?And the whole point is that they wont testify, hiding something? By the way how do you feel about all those people in gitmo, that have never been tried and have no access to a lawyer? Now before you go spewing about how they are not americans and don't deserve constituional rights, the patriot act is not specific to wethere you are americans or not. All they have to do is label you an enemy combatant and your constitutional rights go right out the window. Scary isn't it?

I agree that the prisoners at Gitmo should get a trial or be released.

Let me ask you a question: do you also believe that bush is not entitled to presumed innocence? Do you think he should just be declared guilty and strung up? Is that your idea of "common sense"?

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

07-06-2007, 07:29 PM

I'm making the point that Beerslug hasn't conclusively proven that Bush "lied".

That Bush lied has been proven time and time again.

It would appear that pride and ego prevent you from admitting you are wrong.

Would you prefer terms like "knowingly and deliberately presented innacurate or erroneous information to the American people?"

Would that make it easier to swallow?

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

07-06-2007, 07:34 PM

Now as a mental health professional I saw no evidence in that video of any of these criteria in Dubya. As a diagnostician I would not have enough evidence to Dx him as alcohol intoxicated.

As a mental health professional you should know that intoxication isn't the issue.

Any consumption of alcohol (or other mood altering substances) is inappropriate for a recovering alcoholic - whether the amount consumed is enough to produce intoxication or not.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

07-06-2007, 07:40 PM

Only the ignorant and the few Bush backers left think Bush didn't "intetionally decieve" Americans (lie) to take them to war. But I understand you and patty are Bush apologists' so this isn't surprising at all that you still support this cartel of thiefs and liars.

Exactly.

You posted a pretty thorough summary of (knowingly) misleading statements made by Bush.

Bolt and the other hardcore BushCo apologists continue to close their eyes.

Denial dies hard, apparently.

The Lone Bolt

07-06-2007, 07:48 PM

That Bush lied has been proven time and time again.

It would appear that pride and ego prevent you from admitting you are wrong.

Would you prefer terms like "knowingly and deliberately presented innacurate or erroneous information to the American people?"

Would that make it easier to swallow?

The term isn't the problem. the problem is that you have yet to present even one incident that can ONLY be explained as intentional deception. Every single piece of "evidence" you have presented has a reasonable alternative explanation and is therefore NOT evidence of "lies". It would appear that your pride and ego are preventing you from admitting to the objective truth, that you have no real evidence of "lies".

When you have one piece of evidence that has NO OTHER REASONABLE EXPLANATION, then and only then do you have proof.

The Lone Bolt

07-06-2007, 07:50 PM

As a mental health professional you should know that intoxication isn't the issue.

Any consumption of alcohol (or other mood altering substances) is inappropriate for a recovering alcoholic - whether the amount consumed is enough to produce intoxication or not.

The claim was that the video was evidence that bush was "drunk". That was the claim that I was addressing. The video provided no evidence that he was drunk or even that he was drinking any alcoholic substance.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

07-06-2007, 07:50 PM

The term isn't the problem. the problem is that you have yet to present even one incident that can ONLY be explained as intentional deception.

That is crazy talk.

The examples Beerslug presented show that Bush knowingly made false statements to the American people re: alleged threats posed by Iraq.

The Lone Bolt

07-06-2007, 07:52 PM

Exactly.

You posted a pretty thorough summary of (knowingly) misleading statements made by Bush.

Bolt and the other hardcore BushCo apologists continue to close their eyes.

Denial dies hard, apparently.

What proof do you have that these "misleading" statements were said "knowingly" by bush. You are just assuming that bush knew his statements were inaccurate when he said them. You have yet to provide conclusive evidence to that effect. You just don't seem to get that.

The Lone Bolt

07-06-2007, 07:54 PM

That is crazy talk.

The examples Beerslug presented show that Bush knowingly made false statements to the American people re: alleged threats posed by Iraq.

Crazy talk my ass. It's the requirement of conclusive evidence.

And no, the mere fact that bush made many inaccurate statements does not in itself prove that he knew them to be inaccurate at the time.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

07-06-2007, 07:54 PM

What proof do you have that these "misleading" statements were said "knowingly" by bush.

See post #29.

The proof is right in front of your face, dude.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

07-06-2007, 07:57 PM

And no, the mere fact that bush made many inaccurate statements does not in itself prove that he knew them to be inaccurate at the time.

But he (and others in his administration) did know the information they were presenting to the American people was either dubious or just plain erroneous.

Even if you're unwilling to concede the point about Bush, you have to admit it where Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al, are concerned.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

07-06-2007, 08:02 PM

The Niger uranium story is one of the most obvious examples.

Bush continued to use it in his speeches even when he knew it was BS.

Joe Wilson called him on it and the admin retaliated in a big way (as they always do when someone exposes their criminality in a big way.)

The Lone Bolt

07-06-2007, 08:03 PM

See post #29.

The proof is right in front of your face, dude.

We've been over all this before. Beerslug throws out a buch of inaccurate statements that bush made, labels them all "lies", but then refuses to debate them point by point. Same old dodge.

Take the mobile bio-weapons lab claim for example. Your point has always been that bush "lied" BEFORE the invasion to "trick" the country into war, right? That is what we are debating. Beersluggo's post points out the inaccurate statements bush made about the alledged bio-weapons labs, but fails to mention that those labs were determined not to be weapons labs until AFTER the invasion, therefore bush's statements could not be "lies" to "trick the country into war."

Why don't we debate each of these items point by point. I feel pretty confident that I can establish that none of them are real proof of "lies".

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

07-06-2007, 08:06 PM

We've been over all this before. Beerslug throws out a buch of inaccurate stataments that bush made, labels them all "lies", but then refuses to debate them point by point. Same old dodge.

Take the mobile bio-weapons lab claim for example. Your point has always been that bush "lied" BEFORE the invasion to "trick" the country into war, right? That is what we are debating. Beersluggo's post points out the inaccurate statements bush made about the alledged bio-weapons labs, but fails to mention that those labs were determined not to be weapons labs until AFTER the invasion, therefore bush's statements could not be "lies" to "trick the country into war."

Why don't we debate each of these items point by point. I feel pretty confident that I can establish that none of them are real proof of "lies".

"Innacurate" statements?

Hardly.

They are direct quotes.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

07-06-2007, 08:08 PM

Why don't we debate each of these items point by point. I feel pretty confident that I can establish that none of them are real proof of "lies".

How 'bout we start here?

This memo proves that Bush's Niger Uranium story was based upon lies, and that he knew it and used the story anyway as a justification for us to go to Iraq.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/131678/Memo-NigerUranium-Lies-Bush-Administration-Knew-they-were-Lies

The Lone Bolt

07-06-2007, 08:09 PM

"Innacurate" statements?

Hardly.

They are direct quotes.

:notthissh The statements that bush made were inaccurate. Try to keep up.

The Lone Bolt

07-06-2007, 08:10 PM

How 'bout we start here?

This memo proves that Bush's Niger Uranium story was based upon lies, and that he knew it and used the story anyway as a justification for us to go to Iraq.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/131678/Memo-NigerUranium-Lies-Bush-Administration-Knew-they-were-Lies

I'm off work now. I'll check this out when I get home.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

07-06-2007, 08:13 PM

Lie: The White House claimed that Saddam Hussein tried to buy uranium from Niger and that this was evidence of a renewed nuclear weapons program.

Bush knew: Bush had been informed by intelligence officials months before his speech that the sale likely never took place and that the documentary evidence had been forged.

http://www.warblogging.com/archives/000683.php

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/14/sprj.irq.documents/index.html

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

07-06-2007, 08:21 PM

It's pretty simple:

TIME reports that on March 9, shortly after Wilson returned stateside, the CIA "circulated a memo on the yellowcake story that was sent to the White House, summarizing Wilson's assessment." (That is, the assessment that the Niger uranium story was bogus.)

Bush used it in his speech anyway.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030721-464405,00.html

Bronco_Beerslug

07-06-2007, 09:06 PM

It's pretty simple:

TIME reports that on March 9, shortly after Wilson returned stateside, the CIA "circulated a memo on the yellowcake story that was sent to the White House, summarizing Wilson's assessment." (That is, the assessment that the Niger uranium story was bogus.)

Bush used it in his speech anyway.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030721-464405,00.html

Just amazing isn't it!? There are still people in this country who refuse to believe this cartel of thieves and liars are exactly that even after the facts show them the slime they are.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

07-06-2007, 09:38 PM

Just amazing isn't it!? There are still people in this country who refuse to believe this cartel of thieves and liars are exactly that even after the facts show them the slime they are.

No doubt.

Lone Bolt's defense of Bush's Iraq lies reminds me of Reagan's "I was out of the loop" Iran-Contra defense.

BroncoBuff

07-06-2007, 09:55 PM

You guessed wrong. I have two college degrees (B.A. and M.A.) and graduated in the top 5% at Berkeley. How are your academic credentials?

I'm making the point that Beerslug hasn't conclusively proven that Bush "lied". Can either your or BBS present just one example of Bush saying something that he knew at the time was untrue with conclusive evidence to that effect? I see nothing here but circumstantial evidence and that is the objective truth that you are in denial of.

Until then you have a theory, not a fact. And if you want to debate the difference between theory and fact I'd be happy to oblige.

Sorry Bolt .... six of one, half-dozen of the other. You are quite correct that much of BBS's (exceptionally well researched) post and the many examples therein are not in fact lies, but are instead inaccuracies. Fine.

But as a Democrat/Liberatarian, who despises Bush-Cheney to the 'N'th degree, I would actually RATHER they were lies .... political truth-bending to give them cover to do whatever the hell they wanna do. The alternative is that your president, my president, everyone's president - is astonishingly incompetent. This never-ending string of incompetence is scarier to me than dishonesty. (Although there is plenty of dishonesty elsewhere in the heights of this administration - Cheney bullying CIA analysts like Paul Pillar into signing off on a NIE that grossly overstated Sadaam's danger - and that is a largely factual capsule of what happened. Plus Condoleeza Rice explaining how those 16 words re-appeared in the State-of-the-Union speech after they had been excised from the Cincinnati speech six weeks earlier, "maybe somebody in the bowels of CIA knew, but we did not know that.")

The "Innacuracies not Lies Defense" you interpose above, Bolt, is probably more accurately dubbed the "Well Meaning Incompetence not Lies" defense.

More examples of "well-meaning incompetence" that scare the hell out of me:

I was awe-struck while Bush stood by and did nothing while Kim-Jong Il threatened to test and then in fact twice tested a nuclear warhead delivery device that was widely thought to be potentially capable of hitting American soil. Maybe that's because I live on the piece of that soil closest to that demented dwarf, but the truth is he sat there with his thumb up his ass. Sure, the missile was a pathetic dud - but we did NOT know that beforehand if you'll recall.
I continue awe-struck while he sits on his arse waiting for the Iraqis to 'get their act together.' Not gonna happen. The soldiers we're trying to "train" are loyal to the Shi'a factions we are fighting. Men are dying while he says he will not talk to Iran and Syria. He's an idiot, Bolt. We talked to the Soviets all the time fer godssake. People are dying!
The recent exchange of sharp words between Putin and Bush exposes yet ANOTHER area where his foreign policy is run by incompetents. This missile-defense location problem did not just "pop up" last month ... it's undoubtedly been simmering for a very long time. We just found out about it ... adding yet another example to the long list of dangerously incompetent failures of thie administration.

So, was Bush lying? I sure hope so ... because the alternative is much scarier.

Impressive credentials though, Bolt - seriously.

.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

07-06-2007, 10:05 PM

You are quite correct that much of BBS's (exceptionally well researched) post and the many examples therein are not in fact lies, but are instead inaccuracies.

I just cited one example of Bush using "intelligence" that he knew was bogus in his SOTU speech (Niger uranium canard.)

I hope you're not suggesting that this isn't the same as lying...?

BroncoBuff

07-06-2007, 10:13 PM

I just cited one example of Bush using "intelligence" that he knew was bogus in his SOTU speech (Niger uranium canard.)

I hope you're not suggesting that this isn't the same as lying...?

No no .... lots of BBS's examples ARE LIES. I was just countering Bolt's claim that we don't KNOW they're lies, by saying "inaccuracies" are even scarier.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

07-06-2007, 10:20 PM

No no .... lots of BBS's examples ARE LIES. I was just countering Bolt's claim that we don't KNOW they're lies, by saying "inaccuracies" are even scarier.

Oh. Gotcha.

Another fact Bolt always ignores is that Cheney continues to repeat many of these "inaccuracies" even today.

BroncoBuff

07-06-2007, 10:27 PM

So I was sitting here - proud of my last post there - and I wondered, "how could anybody counter that logic?" ;D ... I finally decided that Bush supporters will sieze on that much-trod ground - last refuge of scoundrels, as it were - "We'll wait for the verdict of history."

Okay, fine. Let's look ahead, shall we? Exactly how will Bush-co be viewed 100 years from now? Most of the issues we discuss here have very little import on history ... but 9/11 will. It will be paramount: "Islamic militants attack America, as religious violence causes the toppling of two of the 5 tallest buildings in the world at the time." Yeah ... I'm kinda sure that'll make the history books. And I feel certain these history books will, when recounting this period, echo the same case for Bush incompetence I outlined above!!!

To wit: "Americans stood by for the remaining 7+ years of his presidency, as Bush failed to apprehend and punish 9/11 mega-criminal Osama bin-Laden. This failure contributed in part to a swelling of the ranks of militant Islam around the globe during the first decade of the 21st Century, as new recruits the world over rallied to bin-Laden's message of hate."

And don't give me the "Tora-Bora is too tough of terrain" excuse ... if we had (and if we still would) commit sufficient resources to the search, we could and would apprehend the #1 domestic criminal in the history of the United States!!! THIS is the shame of this presidency - or it will be when history is told. If I had advised Kerry in 2004, this issue would have been my #1 issue ... to the virtual exclusion of everything else. "Where is the man who toppled those towers, sir?! Why has this man not been brought to justice?!" Over and over and over and over and over and over and over ...... Kerry probably wimped out on that idea with a limp excuse, "but what iof he finds Osama in these last two months? Then we're sunk."

I say ATTACK THAT! Bush's strength in every 2004 pre-election poll was national defense, and protection from terror. Even the "soccer moms" who always leaned Democrat were voting Bush because of that. Well, I say use Karl Rove's strategy - "Attack your opponent's strength."

"Where is the man who toppled those towers, sir?! Why has this man not been brought to justice?!"Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over ...... that's what history will sieze upon: "Radical Islam swelled and metasticized as they exalted the name of bin-Laden in the years following 9/11."

The Lone Bolt

07-06-2007, 10:44 PM

Buff!

Love your posts man! Why would I attacks that? We are mostly in agreement.

My position is that bush is EITHER a liar OR a complete idiot (or maybe both). Either one is very bad, so in spite of LABFs famous delusions, I am NOT a "bush supporter". My position (which I have to repeat over and over again because the fanatics on this board still don't get it) is that bush MAY be a liar OR and idiot OR both.

It's safe to say he's incompetent IMO (althought that's a subjective judgment). I just have not seen conclusive evidence that he is a liar, ALTHOUGH I AM OPEN TO THE POSSIBLITY.

See, that's the main difference between me and LABF: I am open to the possiblity I am wrong. LABF on the other hand is so arrogantly sure of his infallible position that he will not consider any other possibile explanations.

But I guess that's a characteristic of all fanatics.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

07-06-2007, 10:55 PM

See, that's the main difference between me and LABF: I am open to the possiblity I am wrong. LABF on the other hand is so arrogantly sure of his infallable position that he will not consider any other possibile explanations.

Ha!

That's a whopping projection if I ever heard one.

Even when confronted with concrete proof that Bush lied, you refuse to back away from your position.

And you wonder why so many people here "mistake" you for a Bush apologist?

The Lone Bolt

07-06-2007, 11:02 PM

Ha!

That's a whopping projection if I ever heard one.

Even when confronted with concrete proof that Bush lied, you refuse to back away from your position.

And you wonder why so many people here "mistake" you for a Bush apologist?

Not at all. You misunderstand me. The problem is you haven't yet produced "concrete evidence." If you evidence has more than one plausible explanation then it isn't "concrete". You need to open your mind a little.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

07-06-2007, 11:05 PM

Not at all. You misunderstand me. The problem is you haven't yet produced "concrete evidence." If you evidence has more than one plausible explanation then it isn't "concrete". You need to open your mind a little.

The concrete evidence is right in front of your face and you refuse to acknowledge it.

Check my posts re: the Niger uranium canard again.

The Lone Bolt

07-06-2007, 11:19 PM

The concrete evidence is right in front of your face and you refuse to acknowledge it.

Check my posts re: the Niger uranium canard again.

I'll look at it. Despite your rigid views I am open to the possiblity of conclusive evidence. I'll read your links and give my humble opinion.:approve:

Bronco_Beerslug

07-06-2007, 11:25 PM

Not at all. You misunderstand me. The problem is you haven't yet produced "concrete evidence." If you evidence has more than one plausible explanation then it isn't "concrete". You need to open your mind a little.You can cite all the formal education Perry Mason awards you want to but most Americans without any formal education, using only common sense and logic now understand the Bush cartel lied us into his war.

To continue this charade of demanding 100% proof of Bush's lies really discredits the institution and all that award winning education you received there.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

George W. Bush IS a Liar (http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/041306.html)

By Robert Parry
April 14, 2006

The White House is taking umbrage over new press reports that George W. Bush misled the American people on a key justification for invading Iraq. But Bush’s latest excuse – that he was just an unwitting conveyor of bad information, not a willful purveyor of lies – has been stretched thin by overuse.

Nevertheless, White House spokesman Scott McClellan lashed out at a Washington Post report that in May 2003, Bush described two Iraqi trailers as mobile biological weapons labs although two days earlier a Pentagon field investigation had debunked those suspicions in a report to Washington.

“The lead in the Washington Post left the impression for the reader that the President was saying something he knew at the time not to be true,” McClellan said on April 12, 2006. “That is absolutely false and it is irresponsible, and I don’t know how the Washington Post can defend something so irresponsible.”

But the truth is that Bush has been caught, again and again, relying on lies and distortions to confuse the American people about the Iraq War. Sometimes, he can blame U.S. intelligence agencies for the false information, but other times, he simply lies about facts that he personally knows.

For instance, just weeks after Bush made his false statement about the bio-labs, he also began rewriting the history of the Iraq War to make his invasion seem more reasonable.

On July 14, 2003, Bush claimed that Saddam Hussein had barred United Nations weapons inspectors from Iraq when, in fact, they were admitted in November 2002 and given free rein to search suspected Iraqi weapons sites. It was Bush who forced the U.N. inspectors to leave in March 2003 so the invasion could proceed.

But faced with growing questions about his justifications for war in summer 2003, Bush revised this history, apparently trusting in the weak memories of the American people and the timidity of the U.S. press. At the end of an Oval Office meeting with U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan, Bush told reporters:

“We gave him (Saddam Hussein) a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn’t let them in. And, therefore, after a reasonable request, we decided to remove him from power.”

In the following months and years, Bush repeated this claim in slightly varied forms as part of his litany for defending the invasion on the grounds that it was Hussein who “chose war,” not Bush.

Meeting no protest from the Washington press corps, Bush continued repeating his lie about Hussein showing “defiance” on the inspections. Bush uttered the lie as recently as March 21, 2006, when he answered a question from veteran White House correspondent Helen Thomas.

“I was hoping to solve this (Iraq) problem diplomatically,” Bush said. “The world said, ‘Disarm, disclose or face serious consequences.’ … We worked to make sure that Saddam Hussein heard the message of the world. And when he chose to deny the inspectors, when he chose not to disclose, then I had the difficult decision to make to remove him. And we did. And the world is safer for it.”

The significance of this lie about the inspectors – when judging Bush’s proclivity to lie – rests on the fact that he can’t simply blame his advisers when cornered. Bush was fully aware of the U.N. inspectors and what happened to them.

'Downing Street Memo'

Indeed, documentary evidence shows that Bush was determined to invade Iraq in 2002 and early 2003 regardless of what U.S. intelligence could prove or what the Iraqis did.

For instance, the so-called “Downing Street Memo” recounted a secret meeting on July 23, 2002, involving British Prime Minister Tony Blair and his top national security aides. At that meeting, Richard Dearlove, chief of the British intelligence agency MI6, described his discussions about Iraq with Bush’s top advisers in Washington.

Dearlove said, “Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy.”

At an Oval Office meeting on Jan. 31, 2003, Bush and Blair discussed their determination to invade Iraq, though Bush still hoped that he might provoke the Iraqis into some violent act that would serve as political cover, according to minutes written by Blair’s top foreign policy aide David Manning.

So, while Bush was telling the American people that he considered war with Iraq “a last resort,” he actually had decided to invade regardless of Iraq’s cooperation with U.N. weapons inspectors, according to the five-page memo of the Oval Office meeting reviewed by the New York Times.

The memo also reveals Bush conniving to deceive the American people and the world community by trying to engineer a provocation that would portray Hussein as the aggressor. Bush suggested painting a U.S. plane up in U.N. colors and flying it over Iraq with the goal of drawing Iraqi fire, the meeting minutes said.

“The U.S. was thinking of flying U2 reconnaissance aircraft with fighter cover over Iraq, painted in U.N. colours,” the memo said about Bush’s scheme. “If Saddam fired on them, he would be in breach.” [See Consortiumnews.com’s “Time to Talk War Crimes.”]

Regardless of whether any casus belli could be provoked, Bush already had “penciled in” March 10, 2003, as the start of the U.S. bombing of Iraq, according to the memo. “Our diplomatic strategy had to be arranged around the military planning,” Manning wrote.

According to the British memo, Bush and Blair acknowledged that no weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq, nor were they likely to be found in the coming weeks, but that wouldn’t get in the way of the U.S.-led invasion. [NYT, March 27, 2006]

CONTINUED....

Bronco_Beerslug

07-06-2007, 11:26 PM

Ousting the Inspectors

So, Bush clearly knew that Hussein had permitted the inspectors into Iraq to search suspected weapons sites. Bush also knew that he was the one who forced the inspectors to leave so the invasion could proceed in March 2003.

“Although the inspection organization was now operating at full strength and Iraq seemed determined to give it prompt access everywhere, the United States appeared as determined to replace our inspection force with an invasion army,” the UN’s chief weapons inspector, Hans Blix, wrote in his memoir, Disarming Iraq.

In other words, neither the U.N. inspectors’ negative WMD findings nor the Security Council’s refusal to authorize force would stop Bush’s invasion on March 19, 2003. [For more on Bush's pretexts for war in Iraq, see Consortiumnews.com’s “President Bush, With the Candlestick…”]

By late May 2003, however, the failure of Bush's own inspectors to find any WMD, compounded by the stirrings of a bloody Iraqi insurgency, left Bush and his advisers scrambling to refurbish old justifications for the war and to cobble together some new ones.

The two trailers came in handy, even though the evidence was always clear that the equipment was to produce hydrogen for weather balloons, not biological agents.

Like other WMD evidence, however, the case of the trailers was stretched to serve Bush’s political needs. Despite the field report debunking the bio-war claims – sent to Washington on May 27, 2003 – the CIA and the Defense Intelligence Agency issued a misleading “white paper” on the alleged bio-labs on May 28.

Bush began citing the trailers as the conclusive WMD proof on May 29, 2003. “Those who say we haven’t found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons are wrong,” Bush declared, referring to the mobile labs. “We found them.”

By June 1, 2003, after simply reading the “white paper,” I was able to post an analysis showing how shoddy and flimsy the CIA/DIA claims were. At the time, I was not aware of the field report, which had been stamped secret and shelved. [See Consortiumnews.com’s “America’s Matrix, Revisited.”]

The Plame Case

But even worse challenges to Bush’s credibility lay ahead. In June 2003, a former U.S. ambassador, Joseph Wilson, was briefing a few reporters about what he considered the administration’s twisting of intelligence on Iraq’s supposed pursuit of enriched uranium from Niger.

Bush had included the bogus Niger claim in his State of the Union Address in January 2003. But Wilson’s first-hand account of his assignment in 2002 to check out the Niger suspicions – and his conclusion that the evidence was weak – represented the first major assault on Bush’s pre-war intelligence from a mainstream government figure.

The White House struck back, organizing anti-Wilson leaks to friendly reporters. Privately, Bush declassified information that tended to bolster his Niger claim – even though by then its truthfulness had been discredited by U.S. intelligence agencies.

With President Bush’s clearance, Vice President Dick Cheney dispatched his chief of staff, I. Lewis Libby, to leak information to Washington Post investigative reporter Bob Woodward on June 27, 2003. Libby approached New York Times correspondent Judith Miller on July 8 and Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper on July 12.

On July 14, 2003, the behind-the-scenes attack on Wilson surfaced in a column by conservative writer Robert Novak, who divulged that Wilson’s wife, Valerie Plame, was a CIA officer who had a hand in arranging Wilson’s trip to Africa, implying that Wilson’s investigative work in Niger had resulted from nepotism.

In a court filing nearly three years later, special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald described the anti-Wilson campaign as a “concerted” effort by the White House to “discredit, punish or seek revenge against” a troublesome critic.

Ironically, the same day of Novak’s column, Bush introduced a new rationale for the war – his revisionist history that he was forced to invade because Saddam Hussein had refused to let the U.N. inspectors in. The White House apparently saw little danger in deceiving the Washington press corps about Iraq War intelligence, no matter how blatantly.

When the Plame affair exploded as a scandal in September 2003 – after the CIA complained that her exposure violated a law designed to protect the identity of intelligence agents – Bush escalated the deceptions.

Bush knew that he had authorized the declassification of some secrets on the Niger uranium from a National Intelligence Estimate and that those secrets were given to reporters to undercut Wilson. But Bush acted like he was clueless when the investigation began into how Wilson’s wife was exposed.

If Bush had wanted to be honest, he would have disclosed immediately that he had approved a plan to release information to reporters in order to discredit Wilson’s claims. Bush might have explained that he never intended that Plame’s identity be divulged, but he nevertheless had information that would help investigators solve the mystery.

Instead, Bush went out of his way to play dumb, while telling the American people that he wanted to get to the bottom of the story.

“If there is a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is,” Bush said on Sept. 30, 2003. “I want to know the truth. If anybody has got any information inside our administration or outside our administration, it would be helpful if they came forward with the information so we can find out whether or not these allegations are true and get on about the business.”

Perhaps, having gotten away with even more brazen lies – like claiming the U.N. inspectors were kept out of Iraq – Bush may have judged that he could pretty much tell the American people whatever came into his head.

Wiretap Lie

Sometimes, Bush lied even without a clear reason. For instance, during a campaign stop in Buffalo, N.Y., on April 20, 2004, Bush went out of his way to mislead his listeners on the question of whether he always got warrants when he conducted wiretaps.

“By the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires – a wiretap requires a court order,” Bush said. “Nothing has changed, by the way. When we’re talking about chasing down terrorists, we’re talking about getting a court order before we do so.”

Two years earlier, however, Bush had approved letting the National Security Agency use warrantless wiretaps to intercept international calls and other communications made by some Americans.

When Bush’s wiretap lie was exposed in December 2005, the White House insisted that Bush had not lied, that his comments related only to roving wiretaps under the USA Patriot Act, an excuse that Bush adopted as his own on New Year’s Day 2006.

“I was talking about roving wiretaps, I believe, involved in the Patriot Act. This is different from the N.S.A. program,” he said.

However, the context of Bush’s 2004 statement was clear. He broke away from a discussion of the USA Patriot Act to note “by the way” that “any time” a wiretap is needed a court order must be obtained. He was not confining his remarks to “roving wiretaps” under the Patriot Act. [For Bush’s 2004 speech, click here.]

Despite this history of Bush’s deceptions, White House spokesman McClellan still flies into a rage whenever news organizations note that Bush has said something that turned out not to be true.

After the Washington Post’s disclosure about Bush’s bogus bio-war claims, McClellan called the article unfair and noted that Bush made his comments in response to a question, not in a formal speech.

“I saw some reporting saying he had gone out and given a speech about it, and that’s not true,” McClellan said. “I saw some reporting talking about how this latest revelation … was an embarrassment for the White House. No, it’s an embarrassment for the media that is out there reporting this.”

McClellan said the White House also demanded and got an apology from ABC News for suggesting that Bush touted the supposed bio-lab findings while knowing that the CIA/DIA “white paper” was bogus.

“I talked to one network about it and they have … expressed their apologies to the White House,” McClellan said. “I hope they will go and publicly apologize on the air about the statements that were made, because I think it’s important, given that they had made those statements in front of all their viewers.”

Right-wing bloggers also rallied to Bush’s defense.

Yet, while it may be impossible to know exactly what’s in a person’s head when something false is stated – whether the person thinks it’s true or knows it’s false – Bush’s record of deception shouldn’t earn him much benefit of the doubt from the American people.

When apologies start for misleading the public on matters of war and peace over the past several years, George W. Bush should be standing near the front of the line.

Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories in the 1980s for the Associated Press and Newsweek. His latest book, Secrecy & Privilege: Rise of the Bush Dynasty from Watergate to Iraq, can be ordered at secrecyandprivilege.com. It's also available at Amazon.com, as is his 1999 book, Lost History: Contras, Cocaine, the Press & 'Project Truth.'

Cito Pelon

07-07-2007, 05:32 PM

Ya know, if there's any person more detestable than a lying politician, it's the sycophants that are Press Secretaries, or whatever their title is - McClellan, Tony Snow, GWB's original Press Secretary - who incidentally turned informant in the Libby investigation in return for immunity.

Back on-topic, certainly GWB lied about any number of things, not the least of which is the topic of this thread. All of his top advisers have also, hence the refusal over and over and over again to testify under oath

Bronco_Beerslug

07-20-2007, 09:20 PM

Ya know, if there's any person more detestable than a lying politician, it's the sycophants that are Press Secretaries, or whatever their title is - McClellan, Tony Snow, GWB's original Press Secretary - who incidentally turned informant in the Libby investigation in return for immunity.

Back on-topic, certainly GWB lied about any number of things, not the least of which is the topic of this thread. All of his top advisers have also, hence the refusal over and over and over again to testify under oathAnd of course, the reasons are obvious. Bush will most certainly go down as worst president in history, setting back the U.S. in global affairs decades.