DT Jenkins available from Panthers?

[cmhargrove]

Found this article today, i've heard his name many times but haven't watched him play. Sounds like he fits the Bates mold of "Big Guy" and he has been a pro-bowler. What do you think?

Panthers willing to trade Jenkins
Pro Bowler available, according to other teams
PAT YASINSKAS
pyasinskas@charlotteobserver.com
Q&A | Scott Fowler on Sports
Blog | Inside the Panthers
Forum | Talk about the Panthers
More Panthers and NFL news
Carr's Houston legacy: Sacks
Williams officially asks NFL for reinstatement
The Carolina Panthers have told other teams Pro Bowl defensive tackle Kris Jenkins could be available in a trade.

According to multiple personnel sources from other teams, it has been made clear the Panthers would be willing to trade Jenkins if the price is right.

When asked if Jenkins was on the trading block Friday afternoon, Panthers general manager Marty Hurney declined comment. The Panthers have a long-standing policy of not commenting on potential personnel moves.

Jenkins and his agent weren't available for comment Friday.

Talk around the league about Jenkins' availability has been growing stronger since the NFL owners meetings in Phoenix in March.

If the Panthers were to make a deal, it's likely they would want an extra pick in the upcoming NFL draft as compensation. It's unclear which teams might be interested, but plenty have been told of the potential for a deal.

Jenkins, who has a salary-cap figure of about $4.5 million for this season and is under contract through 2009, was named to his third Pro Bowl last season. It capped a triumphant comeback after he missed most of 2004 and 2005 with shoulder and knee injuries. Jenkins could be expendable because the Panthers have depth at defensive tackle.

Ma'ake Kemoeatu was a high-priced free agent signing last year and fills the same type of run-stuffer role as Jenkins. Damione Lewis, another free-agent pickup, spent last season as the top backup, but was a starter earlier in his career and could return to that role. Jordan Carstens, a part-time starter while Jenkins was injured, has signed the restricted free agent tender for this season.

Jenkins was a second-round pick in 2001 and went to the Pro Bowl after the 2002 and '03 seasons. His weight has been an issue. The coaching staff likes Jenkins to play at about 340 pounds, but he has weighed more than that at times -- he has said he approached 400 pounds while sitting out during the injuries.

At the owner meetings, coach John Fox said Jenkins had not taken part in the first two weeks of the team's offseason training program, which began in March.

Jenkins has a clause in his contract that pays him a $175,000 bonus if he takes part in a specified number of the workouts.

[-Slap-]

Arguably the best DT in football when healthy, but a huge injury risk. Also, a somewhat volatile guy. You have to let Kris know you love him all the time or he tends to pout.

[rugbythug]

I love him

[spdirty]

How bout Al Wilson and our late 3rd for him?

[elsid13]

400 pounds ??? Heart attack ready to happen.

[want2bAbronco2]

na, i would give al and a 4th next year. i would rather draft a young dt with out 3rd.

[ND Bronco Fan]

Too spendy, 4.5 mill and picks or some sort of compensation when Bates scheme calls for big fatties to plug stuff up? Those guys can be found for cheaper than that.

[MechanicalBull]

The Panthers really do need help at MLB so there is a possibility.

[cutthemdown]

I don't know Jenkins is pretty good. I'd have to say I would be on board if Denver was interested. Considering the lack of talent and depth at dline you would think adding him would be a no brainer if the Broncos could afford it.

[usedupbraids]

yall really want that fat bastard on or team ????

[brother love]

I'd rather us try to get Shaun Rodgers.

[shakenbake]

yall really want that fat bastard on or team ????

YES

[Drek]

Too spendy, 4.5 mill and picks or some sort of compensation when Bates scheme calls for big fatties to plug stuff up? Those guys can be found for cheaper than that.

Big fatties aren't cheap in the NFL, especially ones that can actually take on two OLs and still hold their ground.

Adding Jenkins would be a one stop cure all for our DL, he and Warren would dominate the interior, freeing our DEs to freelance amazingly well. Then draft Patrick Willis or Jarvis Moss in round one and the D is looking pretty damn good.

I'd hope we could give something like a #70 this year with an '08 conditional pick based on games played in case he gets hurt again, ranging from a 4th to a 6th (14+ games = 4th, >8 = 5th, anything else 6th).

I'd feel the same way about getting Shaun Rogers, but I'd want to offer a little less for him, he's not the proven stud that Jenkins is.

[usedupbraids]

YES

he stinks!!!

[usedupbraids]

400 pounds ??? Heart attack ready to happen.

i agree with this guy :thumbs:

[cutthemdown]

you know i don't think heart attacks are even a big deal nowdays. With all the HGH they are pumped up on the body will actually go on to play another 14 games.

[ICON]

Picking up a probowler defensive tackle who just completed a full season after two IR filled seasons would make alot of SENSE.He has been considered by many as one of the best DT in the league nobody is better than Jenks when his head is in the right place... Bates could get the job done.


Early 3rd or late 2nd round pick at best! lets do it:D

[usedupbraids]

you know i don't think heart attacks are even a big deal nowdays. With all the HGH they are pumped up on the body will actually go on to play another 14 games.

now thats funny :~ohyah!: :~ohyah!:

[shakenbake]

he stinks!!!

wow, what great insight.

[elsid13]

As much as I want Big DT, I don't want one that doesn't seem committed to staying in shape in the off season and isn't making the effort to doing the small stuff that required to be successful. There are two warning flags in the article - the fact that he was close to 400 pounds and hasn't shown up for the 175K work out bonus

I want someone we can count on the 4th QTR and not Gilbert "He on skates" Brown.

[usedupbraids]

800!!!!!800!!!!800!!!! shakenbake is a loser 800!!!

[shakenbake]

800!!!!!800!!!!800!!!! shakenbake is a loser 800!!!

ahh I'm so hurt

[azbroncfan]

800!!!!!800!!!!800!!!! shakenbake is a loser 800!!!

USEDUPBRAINS with some very insulting sh!t talk?:welcome: Ha!

[usedupbraids]

USEDUPBRAINS with some very insulting sh!t talk?:welcome: Ha!

come on man why ya coming at my neck..No HOMO but i like ya 8')

[usedupbraids]

See ya i got to go get my hair braided :)

[Willynowei]

Jenkins is a beast. I have no idea how the heck he managed to get hurt so much.

When he's healthy he is the best defensive lineman in the NFL. He's so explosive that its hard to get a hand on him and then he's HUGE and impossible to stop. NOt double teams, not triple teams. I've seen this guy get a sack on a running play before.

Downside is I really don't know how healthy he can be, but if we can get him on a good deal, why not?

[broncs2bowl]

Jenkins YES BRING HIM IN!!!!!!!!!! I would trade Al and maybe next year 3rd or fourth, or even one of this year 3rds. He is a beast. Then in the first round we could get Moss and in the Second get Antwan Barnes(will this guy fall to our second round pick) Barnes would play SLB with DJ in the Middle. Our line would be Moss, JENKINS, Warren, Lang/Dumerville

[fontaine]

Hell yeah bring him in. He's signed till 2009 on his current deal and $4.5 million isn't too bad for this season. Trade Al plus a 4th next year.

He's a good young DT who can anchor our line for the next three/four years while the younger draft picks develop plus he would easily fit into Bates scheme.

[ICON]

He is like 27 or 28 right?

[broncs2bowl]

CRAP!! I just realized...Why would the Panthers want Al Wilson?.....they have Dan Morgan!

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Morgan is about done. He has had about a dozen concussions.

Best thing about bringing in Jenkins would be his fued with Warren Sapp. Would stir things up between the Broncs and the Raiders.

[Rascal]

If he can stay healthy I'd love to bring him in.

[HEAV]

Morgan is punch drunk. He get's a concussion from sneezing.


Also USEDUPBRAINS has made my Ignore list.

[WABronco]

I'd be willing to take a chance on him for a 3rd round pick.

He has serious injury concerns though, and I'd prefer to try and get Rogers.

[Dukes]

Also USEDUPBRAINS has made my Ignore list.

Welcome to the club! :welcome:

[manchambo]

Morgan is punch drunk. He get's a concussion from sneezing.


Also USEDUPBRAINS has made my Ignore list.

He apparently thinks being a "fat bastard" makes a player undesirable. As far as I understand the rules and prevailing strategy in the National Football League, fat bastards are a key ingredient to success.

[footstepsfrom#27]

On the positive side, this guy won't turn 27 till August. On the negative side he's missed most of 2 of the last 3 seasons with injuries and team's don't generally give up all pro defensive tackles for no reason...especially those that are 26 years old. Balooning to 400 pounds isn't exactly a great way to reduce wear on your injured knee, which makes me doubt his committment. I'm tired of seeing us go after guys with the physical requirements and questionable work ethics. IF we trade for Jenkins it should be a straight up swap for Wilson, who has missed practically no time on the field despite the issue of the failed physical. This assumes he could pass Carolina's physical of course. If he does fine...if not then screw it. I'm tired of giving up draft picks.

[goldengopher1976]

On the positive side, this guy won't turn 27 till August. On the negative side he's missed most of 2 of the last 3 seasons with injuries and team's don't generally give up all pro defensive tackles for no reason...especially those that are 26 years old. Balooning to 400 pounds isn't exactly a great way to reduce wear on your injured knee, which makes me doubt his committment. I'm tired of seeing us go after guys with the physical requirements and questionable work ethics. IF we trade for Jenkins it should be a straight up swap for Wilson, who has missed practically no time on the field despite the issue of the failed physical. This assumes he could pass Carolina's physical of course. If he does fine...if not then screw it. I'm tired of giving up draft picks.

I agree with the sentiments here. I understand that success in the NFL sometimes hinges on a successful gamble or two here and there, but I'm tired of "boom or bust". I don't want it in our draft, or in our trades (any more than it has to be...).

[broncs2bowl]

It looks like the Panthers Fans think the Broncos are one of the more likely partners and they want Wilson(Panther's Message Boards)

[NFLBRONCO]

Al Wilson for Jenkins and their 2nd sounds like a solid deal :).

[azbroncfan]

It looks like the Panthers Fans think the Broncos are one of the more likely partners and they want Wilson(Panther's Message Boards)


But does Carolina's front office want Wilson?

[broncs2bowl]

But does Carolina's front office want Wilson?

Im just saying that Panthers Fans want to do something with us and not just us with them. Then again the FOs may have no interest at all

[MechanicalBull]

Right now the only MLB that Carolina has is Dan Morgan and he is pretty much one hit away from calling it a career. So I think something could get done if both parties wanted to.

[mattob14]

I agree with the sentiments here. I understand that success in the NFL sometimes hinges on a successful gamble or two here and there, but I'm tired of "boom or bust". I don't want it in our draft, or in our trades (any more than it has to be...).

Jenkins isn't the typical "boom or bust" player, though. He's a perennial Pro Bowler who's still young. Yes, the weight is a concern, but most of the big DT's battle weight issues during the offseason. I'd take him in a second.

[U GOT JACKED UP]

From what I understand Jenkins weight problems is because he was injured and couldn't stay in shape. Its kind of hard to keep the weight off if u can't put weight on your knee. I don't see why we wouldn't want him. People want to take a chance on marcus thomas, but this guy is coming off a pro bowl year and is fairly young. The risk reward is high, but if he could stay healthy he would help our dline out tremendously. He is ten times better than anyone we got at DT.

[cabronco]

Well the Panthers are defenitely looking for a trading partner in return. Lets get a deal done here !

Panthers | Team willing to trade Jenkins
Sat, 7 Apr 2007 08:15:08 -0700

Pat Yasinskas, of the Charlotte Observer, reports the Carolina Panthers have told other teams DT Kris Jenkins could be available in a trade, according to multiple personnel sources from other teams.

[Mediator12]

Anyone who thinks trading for a three time all pro DT is a bad idea for a late first day pick and Al Wilson has issues. Jenkins is a top 20 overall player in the NFL when he is on the field. He is a top 2 DT when he is on the field. The only issue is his injury history and you know what, this is the kind of player you go for it with.

Anyone who has never seen him actually play should do so before commenting as well. Dude destroys the interior, takes up and splits double teams, and can even rush the passer as a two gap DT. He would instantly change the DL from marginal to above average.

As for the weight issue, some of that is from the limited rehab and some may be just taking a break from surgeries. Of course it's not a good indicator of his overall work ethic, as he is unstoppable on the field.

I just can not fathom having that type of PROVEN talent available and people not wanting to at least explore the issue. This is not a 30+ guy that was a high draft pick and never produced for two or three teams like all of DEN's DL from CLE. This guy was a three time ALL-PRO when he played a whole season for goodness sake.

[broncs2bowl]

If we ever want to get real trade value for Wilson, we gotta incorperate him to get Jenkins. Jenkins would be mad huge for us

[tesnyde]

I say get him and get him out of Carolina. Colorado has Richard Steadman up in Vail for knees. Carolina has beans and weinees. Colorado has organics and Wild Oats. Carolina has fried everything, white gravey, and BBQ. It all adds up to a helathy Jenkins as opposed to the artery clogged lard Jenkins. Just don't give up a first day pick.

[mattob14]

I love the ESPN boards. One Panther fan over there is ready to trade Jenkins for a 1st and 2 3rds. He's going to be VERY disappointed when the trade goes down (of course, so will the Bears fan who wants to trade Briggs for #14 and Jenkins).

[eddie mac]

The real question for me is why are Carolina looking to get rid of him??? Is he expendable with Kemoteau and Lewis there???

BTW this is just the kind of move I was referring to when I stated the Broncos were hoarding cap room for a reason. I really hope this comes off or a deal for Rogers or KGB. Jenkins would cost us in the region of $3.2m not $4.5m because we dont take on his $9.1m signing bonus from 2003.

[mattob14]

Anyone who thinks trading for a three time all pro DT is a bad idea for a late first day pick and Al Wilson has issues. Jenkins is a top 20 overall player in the NFL when he is on the field. He is a top 2 DT when he is on the field. The only issue is his injury history and you know what, this is the kind of player you go for it with.

Anyone who has never seen him actually play should do so before commenting as well. Dude destroys the interior, takes up and splits double teams, and can even rush the passer as a two gap DT. He would instantly change the DL from marginal to above average.

As for the weight issue, some of that is from the limited rehab and some may be just taking a break from surgeries. Of course it's not a good indicator of his overall work ethic, as he is unstoppable on the field.

I just can not fathom having that type of PROVEN talent available and people not wanting to at least explore the issue. This is not a 30+ guy that was a high draft pick and never produced for two or three teams like all of DEN's DL from CLE. This guy was a three time ALL-PRO when he played a whole season for goodness sake.

QFT. Jenkins came back last year, played in all 16 games and made the Pro Bowl. It's not like there are lingering injuries with him.

[BroncoInferno]

It's often forgotten that back in 2001 the brass actually debated taking Jenkins at #24 overall, but opted for Middlebrooks instead, hoping that Jenkins would last till our 2nd round pick. Had we pulled the trigger, it would have been considered a reach at the time, but would have obviously paid huge dividends. Let's bring him in now for a 3rd.

[Los Broncos]

wow, what great insight.

:D

[Los Broncos]

The draft class this year for dt seems a little weak, maybe if we trade for him it will pan out?

[orange crusher]

Get something done Mike. He would upgrade our DL immensely.

[broncs2bowl]

Bates and Shanny should jump all over this....especially with the Wilkinson trade not paning out

[TheChamp24]

I thought he was older, like in his early 30's but I'm thinking of the other DT the Panthers had. Jenkins is dominate when he is healthy. I remember the Panthers Super Bowl run, he was incredible, sometime it seemed he would get to the QB before he could hand the ball off or fake the hand off.
I would love to get him.

[azbroncfan]

Shanny get the deal done on this big fat 400lb slob who can be dominant when healthy.

[BroncoBuff]

The Panthers really do need help at MLB so there is a possibility.

No kidding ... the Panthers need a MLB? Man .... this would too good to be true. Kris Jenkins?? A BRONCO?! He'd be perfect for Bates' system, he's a real wide-body - a younger Big Daddy Dan Wilkinson, actually. He missed 2005 I think with injury, but he played all of last year ...

I'd give up Al Wilson and our 2nd round pick. In fact, let's make it Al Wilson, a #2 and the late #3, and swap first-round slots. They're at #14.

Then, swap #14 and next year's 2nd rounder to move up to get Patrick Willis, to replace Al.



Done.and.done. :thanku:

[iforgotmypassword]

when healthy he's THE top defensive lineman in the leuge, giving us the top corner and top lineman, al wilson and a conditional pick, easy trade, helps both sides

get it done

[footstepsfrom#27]

The real question for me is why are Carolina looking to get rid of him??? Is he expendable with Kemoteau and Lewis there???
Bingo...give that man a gold star.

I don't buy the spin that "we have Kemoteau and Lewis so why not dump our dominant all pro defensive tackle whose 26 years old and healthy" stuff...you GET what you PAY for...about 99.99% of the time. If we offered them a 3rd and they jumped on it that's a reason to be suspicious. Do we even know what the Carolina FO is asking though? Neither is this a salary move IMO...when a team values D-line players enough to spend a high first on Julius Peppers and their team's success has been built on tough defensive line play, it's a warning sign that something's fishy here. If it turns out they're just terminaly stupid, like say...the Redskins...then I say fine, let's go get him. But I hope Shanny does a bit more due dilligence than he did on the Big Daddy deal before he turns loose any draft picks.

[rbackfactory80]

Jenkins is a great player. He explodes of the snap and looks like he is offsides everyplay. He can do it all and if could stay healthy is as good as it gets.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Jenkins is a great player. He explodes of the snap and looks like he is offsides everyplay. He can do it all and if could stay healthy is as good as it gets.
Similair statements were made about Courtney Brown. IF he is healthy, then why does Carolina want to get rid of him? IF he is healthy why would they settle for less than his true value?

Inquiring minds want to know...

[broncs2bowl]

Similair statements were made about Courtney Brown. IF he is healthy, then why does Carolina want to get rid of him? IF he is healthy why would they settle for less than his true value?

Inquiring minds want to know...

DO NOT compare Brown to Jenkins. Jenkins has been to multiple pro bowls, Brown has started one full season. Jenkins had one injury and was out two years. But he played all of last year and went back to the Pro Bowl. Brown always gets injured and he was never rebounded. That was the stupidest comparison I have seen

[Houshyamama]

800!!!!!800!!!!800!!!! shakenbake is a loser 800!!!

:kiddingme

[Houshyamama]

The real question for me is why are Carolina looking to get rid of him???

That was my question as well, are they worried about his health?

[NFLBRONCO]

No kidding ... the Panthers need a MLB? Man .... this would too good to be true. Kris Jenkins?? A BRONCO?! He'd be perfect for Bates' system, he's a real wide-body - a younger Big Daddy Dan Wilkinson, actually. He missed 2005 I think with injury, but he played all of last year ...

I'd give up Al Wilson and our 2nd round pick. In fact, let's make it Al Wilson, a #2 and the late #3, and swap first-round slots. They're at #14.

Then, swap #14 and next year's 2nd rounder to move up to get Patrick Willis, to replace Al.



Done.and.done. :thanku:


I like your thinking here but,if we pulled the trade you suggested we would only have 14 and 70. Don't get me wrong I'd love having (what you taking bout) Willis to replace AL but, don't we want to upgrade our pass rush more?

[SureShot]

I like your thinking here but,if we pulled the trade you suggested we would only have 14 and 70. Don't get me wrong I'd love having (what you taking bout) Willis to replace AL but, don't we want to upgrade our pass rush more?

Jenkins and Warren in thge middle would make Dumervil a pro-bowler. Get the short fat ninja one on one and watch the sacks come in bunches.

[brncs_fan]

Please don't quote usedupbraids for those of us that have him on ignore.

[brncs_fan]

Let's not forget Jenkins' comments on Warren Sapp:

I hate him. Everybody says I’m supposed to be polite when I talk to you all, but I hate him. He talks too much, he doesn’t make sense, he’s fat, he’s sloppy, he acts like he’s the best thing since sliced bread. He’s ugly, he stinks, his mouth stinks, his breath stinks, and basically his soul stinks, too. Not too many people have personalities like that and survive in life. I don’t know how he does it."

See, he already hates the Raiders. What could be more perfect?

[PRBronco]

Dont' lose sight of the fact that it said Jenkins approached 400 lbs while rehabbing his injury, it did NOT say he balloons to 400 pounds every off season like of the posters here seem to be freaking about. Also, don't lump him in the "fat slob" mould of a Gilbert Brown or Grady Jackson; Jenkins is a monster, he's ridiculously strong and can blow up double teams.

[Clockwork Orange]

The Broncos front office should be all over this. Come on guys, we know you're quite adept at trading for Pro Bowl caliber corners, mix it up a bit and get a stud for the D-line.

[Requiem]

Mediator, that's good post - but he has also battled issues with alcohol abuse.

[NFLBRONCO]

How about this

Carolina sends Denver

#1 in 07
#3 in 07
Kris Jenkins

Denver sends Carolina

#1 in 07
#2 in 07
4th in 08
AL Wilson

[Haroldthebarrel]

How about this

Carolina sends Denver

#1 in 07
#3 in 07
Kris Jenkins

Denver sends Carolina

#1 in 07
#2 in 07
4th in 08
AL Wilson


Good thinking. I wish something like that would come through.

I have seen a lot of Carolina games over the years. Started to really like them the year when they went to the SB because they had a dominant DL, something we dont have and it bugs me we dont put the effort into it.
Somebody says it looks like Jenkins is offside because he explodes off the snap and it really is true. There are few players who anticipates the snap like him. Add into he demands double teams and to me he is easily top five DT when healthy.

When I think of him being tradable I think of how we lost out to Willie Roaf a few years ago. Also a dominant player with health issues. I maintain had we gotten him we would have had a darn near KC offense.
Simply put, he is such a dominant player and a shot at him is rare. Teams that are consistantly contenders like Denver need to take gambles to get over the hump and getting Jenkins is a gamble I am more than willing to take.

[rugbythug]

Jenkins would Make Warren a Monster. Warren is better than he showed last year. The Toes slowed he down.

[footstepsfrom#27]

DO NOT compare Brown to Jenkins. Jenkins has been to multiple pro bowls, Brown has started one full season. Jenkins had one injury and was out two years. But he played all of last year and went back to the Pro Bowl. Brown always gets injured and he was never rebounded. That was the stupidest comparison I have seen
It would be if I actually compared the two players, which I did not.

Why do so many people in here leap to conclusions without reading what is actually written? I compared the statements made about two player's injury situations...not the players themselves. Remember when we signed Brown? Lots of fans on this board jumped all over the signing as a potential steal, thinking his injury situation was a thing of the past. We got one halfway decent year from him and he was done.

The question remains unanswered...why is Carolina wanting to get rid of an all pro defensive tackle who is 26 years old? If their asking price is two first rounders, I'm thinking it's a rebuilding move. If they'll settle for what most in here want to give them...check your wallet to see if it's still there because something's rotten in Denmark.

A few weeks ago I posted a list of stop gap players in the D-line that Denver had signed off other team's rosters in the Shanahan era and noted that we've drafted only one defensive lineman in the 1st round...plus the fact that we've let go several good D-linemen as soon as they wanted to get paid. This strikes me as another way of avoiding taking a DT high in the draft because if in fact Carolina is willing to let this guy go for peanuts, I see a giant WARNING sign flashing in big neon orange letters. Let's find out what the real scoop is before we jump the gun on getting this guy.

[BroncoInferno]

It would be if I actually compared the two players, which I did not.

Why do so many people in here leap to conclusions without reading what is actually written? I compared the statements made about two player's injury situations...not the players themselves. Remember when we signed Brown? Lots of fans on this board jumped all over the signing as a potential steal, thinking his injury situation was a thing of the past. We got one halfway decent year from him and he was done.

The question remains unanswered...why is Carolina wanting to get rid of an all pro defensive tackle who is 26 years old? If their asking price is two first rounders, I'm thinking it's a rebuilding move. If they'll settle for what most in here want to give them...check your wallet to see if it's still there because something's rotten in Denmark.

A few weeks ago I posted a list of stop gap players in the D-line that Denver had signed off other team's rosters in the Shanahan era and noted that we've drafted only one defensive lineman in the 1st round...plus the fact that we've let go several good D-linemen as soon as they wanted to get paid. This strikes me as another way of avoiding taking a DT high in the draft because if in fact Carolina is willing to let this guy go for peanuts, I see a giant WARNING sign flashing in big neon orange letters. Let's find out what the real scoop is before we jump the gun on getting this guy.

They have a very good three DT rotation even without Jenkins, and there are other areas of the team that need addressing that clearing Jenkins salary will help accomplish.

[rbackfactory80]

Similair statements were made about Courtney Brown. IF he is healthy, then why does Carolina want to get rid of him? IF he is healthy why would they settle for less than his true value?

Inquiring minds want to know...

If Al Wilson is healthy why would we want to get rid of him all of the sudden? I blame the d line just as much as him for his drop off in play. Carolina has some depth on their D-line and he I think has had not only injury concerns but off field concerns. This is really a no lose situation cause Al is not likely to stick around anyway. You have to roll the dice if you are basically getting Jenkins for a late round pick.

[footstepsfrom#27]

They have a very good three DT rotation even without Jenkins, and there are other areas of the team that need addressing that clearing Jenkins salary will help accomplish.
Sorry...I just don't buy that. All pro defensive tackles are far to difficult to find, regardless of whether you have other good guys in a rotation or not. Paired with Peppers on that line they're arguably the best front 4 in the NFL. How good are they without him? Second, if that is their strategy...to trade off a highly valuable asset at a position of strength so they can address other areas of the team, they would want a lot more than people in here seem to think. If I have a 340 pound all pro DT who is 26 years old and a 3 time pro bowler and he's healthy, I'm asking for two first rounders...not a 3rd and a guy who just flunked a physical.

How do we know Jenkins isn't their version of Al Wilson?

[footstepsfrom#27]

If Al Wilson is healthy why would we want to get rid of him all of the sudden?
According to the NY Giants he's not healthy.
I blame the d line just as much as him for his drop off in play. Carolina has some depth on their D-line and he I think has had not only injury concerns but off field concerns.
What kind of off field problems? Now we're entering another factor. Alcohol was mentioned...is there something else too? I'm suddenly hearing a lot of negatives...weight is out of control...missed 2 of the last 3 seasons with injuries...off field issues...what's the REAL STORY here?
This is really a no lose situation cause Al is not likely to stick around anyway. You have to roll the dice if you are basically getting Jenkins for a late round pick.
Wilson is under contract. He'll stick around if we say he will. It all depends on whether Shanahan still wants him on this team or not. Also...I've not seen anything posted that definitively says what Carolina is asking for Jenkins. People are coming up with this stuff about late day one picks, late round picks...where is that coming from? If the deal turns out to be Wilson and our 2nd for Jenkins and he turns out to be damaged goods 4 months down the road how will you like the deal then?

I'm not saying don't get him...I'm saying let's be smart and know all the facts before we decide this is a good idea.

Something just doesn't add up here.

[NFLBRONCO]

According to the NY Giants he's not healthy.

What kind of off field problems? Now we're entering another factor. Alcohol was mentioned...is there something else too? I'm suddenly hearing a lot of negatives...weight is out of control...missed 2 of the last 3 seasons with injuries...off field issues...what's the REAL STORY here?
This is really a no lose situation cause Al is not likely to stick around anyway. You have to roll the dice if you are basically getting Jenkins for a late round pick.
Wilson is under contract. He'll stick around if we say he will. It all depends on whether Shanahan still wants him on this team or not. Also...I've not seen anything posted that definitively says what Carolina is asking for Jenkins. People are coming up with this stuff about late day one picks, late round picks...where is that coming from? If the deal turns out to be Wilson and our 2nd for Jenkins and he turns out to be damaged goods 4 months down the road how will you like the deal then?

I'm not saying don't get him...I'm saying let's be smart and know all the facts before we decide this is a good idea.

Something just doesn't add up here.[/QUOTE]

Good points

[rugbythug]

Footsteps is right. This is a terrible Gamble. I mean a 3rd and AL for a 3 time all pro. Who Played last season and went to the Pro Bowl. That is way to much to give up. They are trying to fleece us. He obviously has some hidden injury that our idiot doctors who give him a physical will never find. We should just draft one the sure fire Pro Bowl DT and DE that will be there at 21 and 56 and hoist our Lombardi Trophy. This trade will be the road to ruin.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Footsteps is right. This is a terrible Gamble. I mean a 3rd and AL for a 3 time all pro.
Is that what they're asking? Has that been stated by the Panther's front office or are you just pulling that out of thin air? If it IS what they're asking...and IF HE IS HEALTHY...then the Panther's GM just replaced Matt Millen as the dumbest front office executive in the NFL. I guess you're assuming that's pretty much the case...right?
Who Played last season and went to the Pro Bowl.
Al Wilson played last year and went to the pro bowl.
That is way to much to give up. They are trying to fleece us. He obviously has some hidden injury that our idiot doctors who give him a physical will never find.
Would those be the same doctors who checked out Willie Middlebrooks and Courtney Brown?
We should just draft one the sure fire Pro Bowl DT and DE that will be there at 21 and 56 and hoist our Lombardi Trophy. This trade will be the road to ruin.
Maybe we could just start by placing an emphasis on linemen high in the draft instead of constantly looking for the next big steal off somebody elses roster?

[Atlas]

Mediator, that's good post - but he has also battled issues with alcohol abuse.

Even better Denver can pay him with whiskey shots!

[Atlas]

Footsteps is right. This is a terrible Gamble. I mean a 3rd and AL for a 3 time all pro. Who Played last season and went to the Pro Bowl. That is way to much to give up. They are trying to fleece us. He obviously has some hidden injury that our idiot doctors who give him a physical will never find. We should just draft one the sure fire Pro Bowl DT and DE that will be there at 21 and 56 and hoist our Lombardi Trophy. This trade will be the road to ruin.

Screw this. Keep Al, start him at MLB and give a 3rd and a 2008 6th for Jenkins. Then go into the draft looking for DE, OL and depth at LB and S.

[Atlas]

Looks like the Rams might be the front runners here.

Carolina is listening to offers for Jenkins


By Jim Thomas
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
04/07/2007

In a development that could have a direct impact on the Rams' first-round draft plans, the Carolina Panthers are putting defensive tackle Kris Jenkins on the trading block.

According to the Charlotte Observer, the Panthers are letting it be known that they will listen to trade offers for Jenkins, who in the past has been regarded as one of the NFL's premier run stuffers. The Rams are in desperate need of a big body on the interior of their defense, a defense that finished 31st in the league against the run last season.

The Rams have a lot of insight on Jenkins because Tony Softli, the Rams' vice president of player personnel, was the Panthers' director of college scouting in 2001 when Carolina selected Jenkins in the second round out of Maryland.

Jenkins made the Pro Bowl in 2002 and '03. But there are some concerns in Carolina that Jenkins has a weight problem. He's listed at 6-4, 340. In addition, the Panthers have plenty of depth on a defensive front that was aided by the revived play of former Ram Damione Lewis last season.

Jenkins, 27, has three years left on a contract that pays him $3.2 million in '07, $3 million in '08 and $3.7 million in '09.

In another development, league sources say Rams offensive lineman Adam Goldberg, a restricted free agent, will re-sign with the team next week.

[listopencil]

If the Rams get Jenkins do we have a shot at Branch?

[rugbythug]

Al Wilson played last year and went to the pro bowl.
That is why it is a good trade!

Would those be the same doctors who checked out Willie Middlebrooks and Courtney Brown?

You would think Courtney Brown was injured when he got here, and not after playing a season. Even the best doctors can not predict future injuries.
Middlebrooks was a draft pick and his previous coach was on our staff that is why he was picked.

Maybe we could just start by placing an emphasis on linemen high in the draft instead of constantly looking for the next big steal off somebody elses roster

6 of one half dozen of the other. It is really about the quality of the player on the field not how you get them. For every great DL player drafted High there is a similar bust.

[SureShot]

If the Rams get Jenkins do we have a shot at Branch?

I hope so.

[footstepsfrom#27]

That is why it is a good trade!
You're missing the point. You're suggesting that because Jenkins made the pro bowl he has no health issues...I offer Wilson as exhibit A on why that's not necessarily true.
You would think Courtney Brown was injured when he got here, and not after playing a season. Even the best doctors can not predict future injuries.
He was injured when he got here...he never completely healed of the injuries he sustained in Cleveland. He was a known medical risk when we got hiim.
Middlebrooks was a draft pick and his previous coach was on our staff that is why he was picked.
What's that got to do with our medical staff being able to accuratelly diagnose his prospects for recovery? Obviously we failed in that.
6 of one half dozen of the other. It is really about the quality of the player on the field not how you get them. For every great DL player drafted High there is a similar bust.
This philosophy is the reason we're in the same situation every year...constantly looking for help in the D-line from other team's castoffs.

[WABronco]

If the Rams get Jenkins do we have a shot at Branch?

I'd rather have Branch than Rogers and Jenkins, but I don't think you can go too wrong with any of them.

[Rascal]

It would be foolish to at least not make a play on the guy.

[Rascal]

apparently they are asking for a second. See what they say to Wilson and our late third.

[WABronco]

apparently they are asking for a second. See what they say to Wilson and our late third.

Link?

Anyways, I would probably give up a second for Jenkins + 4th round pick, or something.

I like the Wilson possibility though.

[orange crusher]

apparently they are asking for a second. See what they say to Wilson and our late third.

IF they are asking for a 2nd, I'd rather give them our 2nd and hang on to Wilson and use our first on DE. We could still package picks to get back into the 2nd if someone was there that they really covet.

[Broncos24]

Similair statements were made about Courtney Brown. IF he is healthy, then why does Carolina want to get rid of him? IF he is healthy why would they settle for less than his true value?

Inquiring minds want to know...

I think for salary cap reasons..next julius peppers, steve smith and another stud dlineman will have to renew their contracts..they might be freeing salary cap for next year.

[Dudeskey]

It would be foolish to at least not make a play on the guy.

Hell yeah... and he hates Warren Sapp, more fuel to the rivalry :thumbsup:

[orange crusher]

I think for salary cap reasons..next julius peppers, steve smith and another stud dlineman will have to renew their contracts..they might be freeing salary cap for next year.

ESPN Insider indicates it's because of his reluctance to participate in their offseason training program. It also mentions his weight and says that the Carolina staff was surprised that he was named to the pro bowl because they didn't feel that he played that well. It also mentions the solid depth they have at DT. Who knows if those are the main reasons, just passing it along.

[watermock]

If those three salaries are correct and he doesn't have roster bonuses, he's certainly not overpriced in todays market. Plus he hates Sapp.

Get him on a proper diet. You don't have to starve, just eat properly. Get him off the fried chicken and ribs tour. I don't know if he's in the substance program or not. Knee injuries can happen to a 170 pound returner or Jenkins.

I can't really explain why Al is on the block, but he obviously is. I think he has quite a higher salary number than Jenkins, so that shouldn't be a problem either. We would have to eat the rest of his SB but so would the Panthers.

I'm go.

[Dudeskey]

I don't know if he's in the substance program or not.

He did struggle w/ alchohol & depression @ one point from what I understand, but I don't think that means he was in the substance abuse program.

[footstepsfrom#27]

ESPN Insider indicates it's because of his reluctance to participate in their offseason training program. It also mentions his weight and says that the Carolina staff was surprised that he was named to the pro bowl because they didn't feel that he played that well. It also mentions the solid depth they have at DT. Who knows if those are the main reasons, just passing it along.
Interesting...and if true it would give serious pause to getting him. We need more information on this.

[Rascal]

Considering we felt the same about Wilson.

[listopencil]

C'mon, man. We are one impact DT away from being a top 5 D next year. Do this, or make the trade to go up in the first to get Okoye/Branch.

[thumpc]

They want a second for him? I'll second that, keep Wilson, let him heal up and go PUP for six weeks.

[SureShot]

C'mon, man. We are one impact DT away from being a top 5 D next year. Do this, or make the trade to go up in the first to get Okoye/Branch..

[TheChamp24]

Why do people think if we take Branch or Okoye they will be impact players this year? DT's are hardly ever impact players their first year.

[SureShot]

It wouldn't take much to be an upgrade.

[cutthemdown]

Pro Bowl DT don't come for low picks. He's going to require a high pick prob.

[NFLBRONCO]

Why do people think if we take Branch or Okoye they will be impact players this year? DT's are hardly ever impact players their first year.

I think fans JUST want Denver to put more effort in upgrading DL by using a top pick on one again. Hoping they turn into impact players in a year or so.

[listopencil]

Why do people think if we take Branch or Okoye they will be impact players this year? DT's are hardly ever impact players their first year.

That's what makes them first round prospects. High to medium first round if the draft gurus are right.

[watermock]

I don't know why a DT can't be an impact player as a rookie if he's legitimate talent. DL and RB are the easiest to make impacts early IMO.

If a trade happened, both players have to pass physicals. If we can find Al. We need to start putting pictures on milk cartons. Wilkinson, Plummer, Wilson....ugg. If Bates wants him, chances are Shanahan will bite just to get him excited. If Bates doesn't, forget it.

[Drek]

Why do people think if we take Branch or Okoye they will be impact players this year? DT's are hardly ever impact players their first year.

Okoye probably won't be an impact player year one, but he could be a solid DT with potential and once he grows into his frame a little more and develops some NFL level moves he could be a very good, maybe even great, all around DT.

Branch is ready to step in and be an immediate starter in a two gap scheme, he has a high ceiling as well but he's at worst a solid run stuffer a la Gerard Warren.

Jenkins though is a beast, even last year when the panthers were supposedly unhappy with his play he still was taking on two guys and pushing them back. His base salaries are all manageable over the next three years, if we could get him for a 2nd rounder that'd be pretty awesome.

[TheChamp24]

I don't know why a DT can't be an impact player as a rookie if he's legitimate talent. DL and RB are the easiest to make impacts early IMO.

If a trade happened, both players have to pass physicals. If we can find Al. We need to start putting pictures on milk cartons. Wilkinson, Plummer, Wilson....ugg. If Bates wants him, chances are Shanahan will bite just to get him excited. If Bates doesn't, forget it.

DT's are a completly different thing.
2001- Warren, Damione Lewis, Marcus Stroud, Casey Hampton and Ryan Pickett all 1st round DT's selected. Took all of them a season or two to get anything going, some never did.

2002- Ryan Sims, John Henderson, Wendell Bryant, Albert Haynesworth all were 1st round DT's. Sims and Bryant are busts, Henderson took a little while to get dominate while Haynesworth is decent

2003- Dewayne Robertson, Jonathan Sullivan, Kevin Williams, Jimmy Kennedy, William Joseph all 1st round DT's
Williams is the only one worth note really IMO, and he had early success as a DE I think

2004- Tommie Harris, Vince wilfork, and Marcus Tubbs
Harris and Wilfork both had some success early

2005- Travis Johnson and Mike Patterson
Patterson is decent, Johnson is a "bust", nothing spectacular

2006- Ngata, Bunkley and McCargo
Bunkley was talked about being traded, Ngata did decent , don't know about McCargo

The past 6 drafts, the 1st DT taken only 1 of them is a Pro Bowl player currently. 6 total Pro Bowlers
I just don't like drafting DT's early on, they seem to be a very big risk than some other positions.
Plus, I don't see greatness in Branch or Okoye. Okoye is young and can develop more, and may turn into something good, but I don't want to trade up for either.

Stay put and draft a DE or S in round 1, DT's other rounds.

[watermock]

I didn't say Pro Bowler. I said impact. That wouldn't take much in Denver. Since I'm in favor of the trade I'm a little baffled. The Pro Bowl isn't anything but a popularity contest anyway.

[listopencil]

I don't know-did those guys have someone like Warren to play on the line with, or were they basically the only quality guys on ****ty lines?

[listopencil]

The absolute dream for me would be to pull off this trade and still get Okoye/Branch.

[listopencil]

Hmmm...Dare I join in the blasphemy? Al Wilson and the high third?

[BroncoBuff]

Pro Bowl DT don't come for low picks.
Good point .... but neither do Pro Bowl MLBs like Al. These two guys are similar in many ways. Both Pro-Bowl defenders with big question marks in health departments...

If Carolina really does need a MLB, it's a very nice fit for a trade. Like I said, if Jenkins is healthy and reasonably on weight, I'd part with Al and a #2. Worry about Al's replacement later. DT is a glaring hole on this roster, and Kris Jenkins is a Top 5 DT ... a youngre Dan Wilkinson, whom we know Bates liked. In fact, Jenkins is so good, that a healthy Warren and Jenkins together would probably cause gonzolays to start a thread: "Are Jenkins and Warren the greatest DT combo in NFL History?"

:~ohyah!: ... just joshin, bro ... I love our CBs too.



BTW ... for all you guys so worried about Jenkins injuries ... would you raise the same concerns if we were talking about Tommie Harris?

[SureShot]

Good point .... but neither do Pro Bowl MLBs.

If Carolina really does need a MLB, it's a nice fit for a trade. Like I said, if Jenkins is healthy and reasonably on weight, I'd part with Al and a #2. Worry about Al's replacement later. DT is a glaring hole on this roster, and Kris Jenkins is a Top 5 DT....

BTW ... for all you guys so worried about his injuries ... would you raise the same concerns if this was Tommie Harris?


Good point BB. We need to make this happen.

Jenkins is a gamebreaking DT. Just what the doctor ordered.

[Vladimir]

I really hope we can strike a deal for jenkins somehow.
But it seems like every off season there is speculation on some guy we really need to pickup but nothing ever comes of it or we actually try to get them and it never works.. Last year for example: Jamal Lewis.

I really do hope we can get him though, I've been a Jenkins fan for a while now.

[cutthemdown]

I really hope we can strike a deal for jenkins somehow.
But it seems like every off season there is speculation on some guy we really need to pickup but nothing ever comes of it or we actually try to get them and it never works.. Last year for example: Jamal Lewis.

I really do hope we can get him though, I've been a Jenkins fan for a while now.

Well this offseason certainly hasn't been all speculation! So maybe something does happen.

[Vladimir]

Well this offseason certainly hasn't been all speculation! So maybe something does happen.


Very true. I am glad the Kerney deal fell through, we need tha cap space for Jenkins!

[elsid13]

That's what makes them first round prospects. High to medium first round if the draft gurus are right.

Kiper was on ESPN radio yesterday and his exact quote on Branch "For a guy with some much apparent talent it would be nice to see him make a play once and awhile on game tape." It one of reason Kiper thinks he will slide on draft day.

[BroncoInferno]

Interesting...and if true it would give serious pause to getting him. We need more information on this.

I understand your concern, footsteps, but I'm sure if the team made a move they would take an extensive look at his injury history and personal issues. Carolina knows teams will investigate this as well, which is probably why he'll be had by someone for only a 3rd rather than a 1st. From Carolina's perspective, they probably don't want to deal with the "what-ifs" on a guy with his salary, particular when they are solid at DT even without him. For a team like us, you role the dice on greatness for a 3rd--i.e. a draft pick who probably has less than a 50/50 shot at being long-term productive NFL starter, to say nothing of being a perennial pro bowler. There's risk, of course, but sometimes you need to take a risk on greatness.

[BombsOverBaghdad]

Big fatties aren't cheap in the NFL, especially ones that can actually take on two OLs and still hold their ground.

Adding Jenkins would be a one stop cure all for our DL, he and Warren would dominate the interior, freeing our DEs to freelance amazingly well. Then draft Patrick Willis or Jarvis Moss in round one and the D is looking pretty damn good.

I'd hope we could give something like a #70 this year with an '08 conditional pick based on games played in case he gets hurt again, ranging from a 4th to a 6th (14+ games = 4th, >8 = 5th, anything else 6th).

I'd feel the same way about getting Shaun Rogers, but I'd want to offer a little less for him, he's not the proven stud that Jenkins is.

Do you really think we could get him for such a little price?
Then my next question is -- if not Denver, who else is looking for this type of DT? Seattle?
Does anyone have any updates on S. Rogers? Is he available?

IMO, either of these DT's would make a huge difference and we should pursue it vigorously. Give me Crowder in the 2nd & Bazuin in the 3rd and I would be pleased with the rotation on the D-line.

[16-JakE-16]

If we acquired Jenkins, I'd safely presume the Broncos to be a top Super Bowl contender.

[Drek]

Do you really think we could get him for such a little price?
Then my next question is -- if not Denver, who else is looking for this type of DT? Seattle?
Does anyone have any updates on S. Rogers? Is he available?

IMO, either of these DT's would make a huge difference and we should pursue it vigorously. Give me Crowder in the 2nd & Bazuin in the 3rd and I would be pleased with the rotation on the D-line.
I think the price on Jenkins largely depends on if Rogers is available and if Grady Jackson gets let loose. That'd put three big fellas on the market, dropping the value on all of them.

[Steve Sewell]

he stinks!!!

You are now officially the biggest imbecile on this board...congratulations.

[-Slap-]

I haven't read the last 120 or so posts on this thread. By now these threads usually degenerate into rational fans trying to explain to the dumbasses that teams don't trade away Mean Joe Greene or Merlin Olsen in their prime.

Players at premium positions don't hit the open market unless there is something wrong with them. That mean Kris Jenkins and Shaun Rogers, tough talented, are going to come with more than their share of red flags.

[-Slap-]

DT's are a completly different thing.
2001- Warren, Damione Lewis, Marcus Stroud, Casey Hampton and Ryan Pickett all 1st round DT's selected. Took all of them a season or two to get anything going, some never did.

2002- Ryan Sims, John Henderson, Wendell Bryant, Albert Haynesworth all were 1st round DT's. Sims and Bryant are busts, Henderson took a little while to get dominate while Haynesworth is decent

2003- Dewayne Robertson, Jonathan Sullivan, Kevin Williams, Jimmy Kennedy, William Joseph all 1st round DT's
Williams is the only one worth note really IMO, and he had early success as a DE I think

2004- Tommie Harris, Vince wilfork, and Marcus Tubbs
Harris and Wilfork both had some success early

2005- Travis Johnson and Mike Patterson
Patterson is decent, Johnson is a "bust", nothing spectacular

2006- Ngata, Bunkley and McCargo
Bunkley was talked about being traded, Ngata did decent , don't know about McCargo

The past 6 drafts, the 1st DT taken only 1 of them is a Pro Bowl player currently. 6 total Pro Bowlers
I just don't like drafting DT's early on, they seem to be a very big risk than some other positions.
Plus, I don't see greatness in Branch or Okoye. Okoye is young and can develop more, and may turn into something good, but I don't want to trade up for either.

Stay put and draft a DE or S in round 1, DT's other rounds.

Excellent post. Defensive tackle may well be the most difficult position to scout for a number of reasons.

First, almost all of the athletes you're grading are overweight. Defensive tackles run from 285-350 pounds and its uncommon for one not to have a pretty good sized boiler. Now, its not readily apparent if some of these guys are actually in shape to play football under the best of circumstances. Granted, it doesn't require a keen observer of detail to realize when athletes with nicknames like Fridge or Tractor start creeping up on four bills, but there's no way to just look at most of these cats and know if they're going to start sucking wind on the opening series.

Second, most of your top flight defensive tackles are able to dominate most college opponents by sheer brute force. They just manhandle the guy in front of them. This isn't very likely at the next level. DTs who get used to ragdolling weaker opponents in college are shocked to find NFL linemen are an entirely different breed. They're bigger, faster, smarter, meaner and they work together much more efficiently. Its a tremendous wakeup call for a lot of these guys.

Generally speaking, your average 22 year old leviathan has two choices. He can learn from these lessons and develop the technique and toughness to become a player, or he can just hang around the League until people get tired of giving him chances.


Cortez Kennedy was labeled a big fat bust after his rookie season in 1990. He took the criticism to heart and he came back the next season as a completely different ballplayer. He made the next six Pro Bowls and seven overall. Tez was the exception. The rule was illustrated in the post above by jth1331.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Good point .... but neither do Pro Bowl MLBs like Al. These two guys are similar in many ways. Both Pro-Bowl defenders with big question marks in health departments...
That may be the only thing that is similiar about them. Al Wilson is known as a ferocious and fiery leader, a warrior, a guy who is laying on a gurney having his neck imobilized one week, and playing the next week. Jenkins is a guy who refuses to show up for off season workouts despite being overweight. That tells me volumes about his DESIRE to be a great player. Am I the only one who wants high character guys like Wilson and Rod Smith to be the nucleas of this team? The very things they are saying in Carolina about Jenkins, are the same things that I've heard legions of posters on this board complaining about with regard to Gerrard Warren, yet now we're willing to part with a 2nd round pick for him? Carolina's coaches were suprised he made the pro bowl, which tells me that he made it off his reputation. Add up the factors here...a weight problem he is not addressing in the off season by coming to workouts...a potential problem with alcohol, maybe depression (if this is true)...and in the opinion of his coaches who watch him every day, a decline in performance. This is the classic definition of "underachiever". Jenkins would not be the first player to play great when he was looking for a big payday and fall off once he got it. Is that how we're planning to win a superbowl? I think you win Superbowls with guys who are determined to be the best. Despite what Jenkins has done in the past on the field, does he sound like that kind of guy now?
If Carolina really does need a MLB, it's a very nice fit for a trade. Like I said, if Jenkins is healthy and reasonably on weight, I'd part with Al and a #2. Worry about Al's replacement later. DT is a glaring hole on this roster, and Kris Jenkins is a Top 5 DT ... a youngre Dan Wilkinson, whom we know Bates liked.
Is he a top 5 DT? His coaches don't think he should have made the pro bowl this time around. Why are people simply ignoring that highly significant fact like it wasn't said? If he didn't deserve the pro bowl, he's certainly not a top 5 DT is he? He sounds like Gerrard Warren in a lot of ways, except I haven't heard Shanny question Warren's work ethic and I'm not aware of any off the field issues with Warren. Three years ago Jenkins was the best DT in the NFL, and it's obvious that's what fans here remember. Three years ago Wilson was a better tackler than he is now too. Things change...but one thing remains the same; this team flatly refuses to spend high draft picks on defensive linemen and in those rare occurances when we develop somebody, we let them go in free agency. Sure, you can use the excuse that lots of high round defensive linemen bust...New England could have used that excuse too...instead they just did their homework and drafted an outstanding line. We'd rather ignore the position in the top of the draft and get other team's castoffs. Jenkins is just a potential continuation of that policy. He might suddenly wake up and decide he wants to be the player he used to be by attending off season workouts and dedicating himself to being great, but what are the odds of that happening? How many times has this worked for us in the past? Neil Smith and Alfred Williams...Perry for one year...who else?
BTW ... for all you guys so worried about Jenkins injuries ... would you raise the same concerns if we were talking about Tommie Harris?
Is Tommy Harris 60 pounds overweight and refusing to show up for off season workouts?

[footstepsfrom#27]

I understand your concern, footsteps, but I'm sure if the team made a move they would take an extensive look at his injury history and personal issues.
This might make me feel better if we didn't have several other examples of prior players with injuries that we took either in the draft or through trade or free agency that failed due to that. Middlebrooks is the most glaring example...Courtney Brown the most recent.
Carolina knows teams will investigate this as well, which is probably why he'll be had by someone for only a 3rd rather than a 1st. From Carolina's perspective, they probably don't want to deal with the "what-ifs" on a guy with his salary, particular when they are solid at DT even without him.
Allegedly they're asking for a 2nd now...but you make a good point. My question is...why should Denver's concern be less than Carolina's? True, they have a more solid DT rotation, which is the only reason I see...maybe we should go about doing the same thing...drafting or developing talent instead of constantly relying on rolling the dice with other team's castoffs?
For a team like us, you role the dice on greatness for a 3rd--i.e. a draft pick who probably has less than a 50/50 shot at being long-term productive NFL starter, to say nothing of being a perennial pro bowler. There's risk, of course, but sometimes you need to take a risk on greatness.
The risk would be more acceptable to me if it were only the injury factor. But we have more than one red flag here...character issues, weight issues, and the potential problem with his performance declining, which his coaches seem to indicate is what has happened since he returned from the injury. Those sound like odds favoring the house IMO. I'd rather roll the dice with a guy like Okoye. Might he bust? Sure...so could a lot of other #1 picks too. True, a 3rd rounder might be a gamble too, but wasn't this off season supposed to be about "impact"?...so why not use that 3rd coupled with our 2nd to move up for another 1st rounder? Potentially we could swap both 3rd rounders to move up in the first round for Willis or Okoye maybe...plus still pick up a DT like Branch if he falls or even couple two 1st rounders that we could get by sacrificing the 3rds and even make a move way up the line for Jamal Anderson.

I'm tired of rollilng the dice...we've been coming up snake eyes lately with that idea.

[Haroldthebarrel]

This might make me feel better if we didn't have several other examples of prior players with injuries that we took either in the draft or through trade or free agency that failed due to that. Middlebrooks is the most glaring example...Courtney Brown the most recent.

Allegedly they're asking for a 2nd now...but you make a good point. My question is...why should Denver's concern be less than Carolina's? True, they have a more solid DT rotation, which is the only reason I see...maybe we should go about doing the same thing...drafting or developing talent instead of constantly relying on rolling the dice with other team's castoffs?

The risk would be more acceptable to me if it were only the injury factor. But we have more than one red flag here...character issues, weight issues, and the potential problem with his performance declining, which his coaches seem to indicate is what has happened since he returned from the injury. Those sound like odds favoring the house IMO. I'd rather roll the dice with a guy like Okoye. Might he bust? Sure...so could a lot of other #1 picks too. True, a 3rd rounder might be a gamble too, but wasn't this off season supposed to be about "impact"?...so why not use that 3rd coupled with our 2nd to move up for another 1st rounder? Potentially we could swap both 3rd rounders to move up in the first round for Willis or Okoye maybe...plus still pick up a DT like Branch if he falls or even couple two 1st rounders that we could get by sacrificing the 3rds and even make a move way up the line for Jamal Anderson.

I'm tired of rollilng the dice...we've been coming up snake eyes lately with that idea.

You make loads of seriously good points on why it would be a risk to acquire Jenkins as well as there are serious concerns that should be investigated to why he should suddenly be available.
However, there are other sides to this story that is yet to be explored.
Among them are the points I think was mentioned at PFT that next year both Gross and Peppers are free agents and thus may be why they are saving money now instead of going after FAs in order to keep them.
Also, they mention that Steve Smith is quietly grumbling about his contract.
In other words how much might this also be a cap related move?

You are looking for the whole picture and I think you do a great job at it. These points I mention should only add into the picture.
In the end my guts tell me that acquiring Jenkins is a gamble no matter how you put it. And if you are willing to gamble on him, the next question remains how much are you willing to gamble in a near ultimate high risk-high reward scenario- at least as far as Denver is concerned.

[NFLBRONCO]

I don't care if he was top 5 or top 15 DT he would be an upgrade over what we have already this is why we should at least look into it. If they find a red flag or asking price is to high move on.

[Paladin]

Well, that's what we hereon are doing.... I don't know if the Broncos are doing it or not.....

The posters here can make great trades.....

[footstepsfrom#27]

Carolina fans don't seem that enamored with Jenkins. Most are just hoping they can screw somebody out of a better draft pick than they think he's worth...that plus they're arguing about whether Denver's running game is the result of a system in the O-line or not...LOL...one guy says he thinks Foster will be solid in Detroit: From www.pantherfanz.com... http://www.panthersfanz.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10333

And we all know that he really didn't deserve a Pro Bowl birth. He only made it because of his past reputation.--Carol

Technically, Kris' last good year with us was 2003. Since then he's had injuries, struggled with alcoholism and struggled with weight.

As I said before, the only reason he got a pro bowl birth this past season was because of his prior reputation. He did nothing special to earn it.--Carol

We got a gift when he was voted to the pro-bowl last season because stock goes up, now whether he was pro-bowl material or not I still say yes because the players obviously thought so too.--Hook

I just hope we don't start seeing people think we're going to get a lot for him. With the problems involving him the past few years, we'd be lucky to get a mid 2nd rounder for him IMO.--JPF v2.0

Disagree, I'd keep him for that!--Hook

One healthy season following two plagued by season ending injuries, weight problems, and a battle with alcohol doesn't erase those problems.

With that said, it's possible we might would get more from the Rams since Softli is there, but even then I can't imagine it'd be anything close to what you're seeing his value as.--JPF v2.0

Either way, he'd garner MUCH higher than a mid 2nd. C'mon, hes touted all through the NFL as a premier DT. Last years PB selection, however we view its legitimacy, WILL play a factor in his trade value....those things ALWAYS do.--ian cognito

At absolute most I can see a 2nd round pick and a mid day two pick. Maybe more if the Rams are involved since Softli is familiar with Jenkins.

As a Panther fan, I really hope I am wrong about this and that we can find a way to rob someone blind. But as a football fan, I just can't see it.--JPF v2.0

[Drek]

Carolina fans don't seem that enamored with Jenkins. Most are just hoping they can screw somebody out of a better draft pick than they think he's worth...that plus they're arguing about whether Denver's running game is the result of a system in the O-line or not...LOL...one guy says he thinks Foster will be solid in Detroit: From www.pantherfanz.com... http://www.panthersfanz.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10333

And we all know that he really didn't deserve a Pro Bowl birth. He only made it because of his past reputation.--Carol

Technically, Kris' last good year with us was 2003. Since then he's had injuries, struggled with alcoholism and struggled with weight.

As I said before, the only reason he got a pro bowl birth this past season was because of his prior reputation. He did nothing special to earn it.--Carol

We got a gift when he was voted to the pro-bowl last season because stock goes up, now whether he was pro-bowl material or not I still say yes because the players obviously thought so too.--Hook

I just hope we don't start seeing people think we're going to get a lot for him. With the problems involving him the past few years, we'd be lucky to get a mid 2nd rounder for him IMO.--JPF v2.0

Disagree, I'd keep him for that!--Hook

One healthy season following two plagued by season ending injuries, weight problems, and a battle with alcohol doesn't erase those problems.

With that said, it's possible we might would get more from the Rams since Softli is there, but even then I can't imagine it'd be anything close to what you're seeing his value as.--JPF v2.0

Either way, he'd garner MUCH higher than a mid 2nd. C'mon, hes touted all through the NFL as a premier DT. Last years PB selection, however we view its legitimacy, WILL play a factor in his trade value....those things ALWAYS do.--ian cognito

At absolute most I can see a 2nd round pick and a mid day two pick. Maybe more if the Rams are involved since Softli is familiar with Jenkins.

As a Panther fan, I really hope I am wrong about this and that we can find a way to rob someone blind. But as a football fan, I just can't see it.--JPF v2.0

So some of the people who quote as being down on him would balk at losing him for a mid-second rounder, pretty similar to what we gave for Javon "I'm the best WR in the AFC West" Walker.

Yeah, they just hate the guy.

See, here's the deal with Jenkins. He might be a fat slob, I don't care. He might have a heart attack in ten years. I don't care. He might not be able to walk in five years. Again, I don't care. All I care about is he showed he can play a full season last year at a high NFL level, if he'd completely fell off the cliff no past rep gets you voted to the pro-bowl. He's only 26, its very likely that he'll be able to do that for the next three years, his contract, where he's paid less than $4M a season. For you numerically challenged people out there, thats 2/3rds the money we gave Warren last year.

A fat out of shape Jenkins is still a run stopping force who would fit perfectly in Bates scheme. If it cost us #70 and a future pick, or even #56, its worth it because our defense becomes as legit as our offense with that one move. No rookie is going to do that, especially no second or third rounder. I don't care if he's out of the league and confined to a wheelchair after '09, for three years he'd be a big piece towards making us a championship contender.

[footstepsfrom#27]

So some of the people who quote as being down on him would balk at losing him for a mid-second rounder, pretty similar to what we gave for Javon "I'm the best WR in the AFC West" Walker.

Yeah, they just hate the guy.
Well with maybe one exception they seem to feel he underperformed and they'd be happy with a 2nd round pick. That seems a rather low expectation for a guy some in here claim is a top 5 defensive tackle...don't you think?
A fat out of shape Jenkins is still a run stopping force who would fit perfectly in Bates scheme. If it cost us #70 and a future pick, or even #56, its worth it because our defense becomes as legit as our offense with that one move. No rookie is going to do that, especially no second or third rounder. I don't care if he's out of the league and confined to a wheelchair after '09, for three years he'd be a big piece towards making us a championship contender.
Would he? I'm not so sure. He could also wind up on the IR or simply go into a funk and be another underachiever type who contribues nothing special. Year after year we're lured in by the siren song of other NFL team's castoff defensive linemen. With precious few exceptions we've been dissapointed. Some in here suggest Carolina doesn't need him because their DT rotation is so strong...yet fans on their board are divided about whether that's even true or not.

Obviously a sampling of half a dozen fans means little. I just wanted to see what some of them had to say about him. I'm not hearing anyone screaming at the top of their lungs about the prospect of losing him. They watched him play all year...

Maybe they know something we don't?

[BroncoBuff]

I think the price on Jenkins largely depends on if Rogers is available and if Grady Jackson gets let loose. That'd put three big fellas on the market, dropping the value on all of them.

Now THAT'S a good point .... Grady Jackson and Shaun Rogers are both talented wide-bodies that would come cheaper than Jenkins ... and without the same attitude and health concerns.


The past 6 drafts, the 1st DT taken only 1 of them is a Pro Bowl player currently. 6 total Pro Bowlers
I just don't like drafting DT's early on, they seem to be a very big risk than some other positions.
Plus, I don't see greatness in Branch or Okoye. Okoye is young and can develop more, and may turn into something good, but I don't want to trade up for either.

Excellent research. Makes Alan Branch look REALLY scary ... and makes Brandon Mebane and Louis Leonard - and that kid from the tiny college in Mississippi - look like value picks.

[Gcver2ver3]

I'd love to see Jenkins here but I'm not sure it's worth all the debating about until we at least know whether or not Denver is actually trying to acquire him.....

[TheChamp24]

Would you rather spend a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a DT, or trade it for Jenkins, who is a former Pro Bowler and when healthy, is one of the better DT's in the game?

[cmhargrove]

Now THAT'S a good point .... Grady Jackson and Shaun Rogers are both talented wide-bodies that would come cheaper than Jenkins ... and without the same attitude and health concerns.




Excellent research. Makes Alan Branch look REALLY scary ... and makes Brandon Mebane and Louis Leonard - and that kid from the tiny college in Mississippi - look like value picks.

I'm not against Grady Jackson, but you can't say he doesn't carry baggage. The reason he is in Atlanta is because he raised a stink with his last team in a contract dispute as well (if I remember correctly). He would be an upgrade for us, but all these guys carry some baggage. Who will be the best body to help us win?

Branch looks great but I agree that we shouldn't expect a rookie DT to dominate. However, I would like a guy that would give us 5-7 years rather than 1-2 if possible. But, if Jenkins can be had for a second rounder, he is better than anything else we could get for our team in the second round. Just like Javon last year, it would be a huge steal to land a pro-bowl caliber player for a second rounder. All draft picks are gambles. Nice to get guys who have already proved they can dominate in the league.

[Los Broncos]

Id say sign him if we can, we can afford to sit back and watch the qb just march down the field and win games.

[-Slap-]

As I said before, the only reason he got a pro bowl birth this past season was because of his prior reputation. He did nothing special to earn it.--Carol

Oh, yeah? There's no such thing as a Pro Bowl birth. Not unless the wife of one of the players has a child at Honolulu Hospital while dad is on the field playing.

Berth (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/berth)

Let's cherry pick quotes from a fan message board about a player they know is on the way out the door. Go pull up one of the Al Wilson threads when it looked like he was a goner and you'll see some of the people here regarding him in equally dismissive tones.

I don't know why we're screwing around with Kris Jenkins anyway. We should be trying to trade for Marcus Stroud. He's in his prime, with prototypical physical tools. Awesome in all phases of the game. Perennial Pro Bowler.

Wait a minute, he missed five games with leg injuries last year.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235246

Forget it. Too inury prone.

[Willynowei]

Anyone who thinks trading for a three time all pro DT is a bad idea for a late first day pick and Al Wilson has issues. Jenkins is a top 20 overall player in the NFL when he is on the field. He is a top 2 DT when he is on the field. The only issue is his injury history and you know what, this is the kind of player you go for it with.

Anyone who has never seen him actually play should do so before commenting as well. Dude destroys the interior, takes up and splits double teams, and can even rush the passer as a two gap DT. He would instantly change the DL from marginal to above average.

As for the weight issue, some of that is from the limited rehab and some may be just taking a break from surgeries. Of course it's not a good indicator of his overall work ethic, as he is unstoppable on the field.

I just can not fathom having that type of PROVEN talent available and people not wanting to at least explore the issue. This is not a 30+ guy that was a high draft pick and never produced for two or three teams like all of DEN's DL from CLE. This guy was a three time ALL-PRO when he played a whole season for goodness sake.

When he's healthy he is so freakin dominant that it is scary. He's heavy, but he's ALWAYS been HUGE, the guy is a 5 ton Gorilla strapped with a Jetpack. He just eats O-linemen for lunch, and then spits them out in the QBs face.

Anyone wondering how to stop Peyton, this guy would just about put an end to Indy's dominance over us by himself.

[footstepsfrom#27]

When he's healthy he is so freakin dominant that it is scary. He's heavy, but he's ALWAYS been HUGE, the guy is a 5 ton Gorilla strapped with a Jetpack. He just eats O-linemen for lunch, and then spits them out in the QBs face.

Anyone wondering how to stop Peyton, this guy would just about put an end to Indy's dominance over us by himself.
It all sounds great...till you remember there's another team on the other end of this trade who knows more about him than we do. Each year it's the same...the next savior we ecstatically embrace in the D-line...the list is long and for the most part undistinguished...yet each year there's another one...the one we knowingly nod and smile about as we wonder at the rank stupidity of the team that let him go...and in the entire 12 years of the Shanahan era, it turns out the lone guy who stayed here and made a major impact for this team for more than a short time was Trevor Pryce.

We DRAFTED him.

[Rascal]

It all sounds great...till you remember there's another team on the other end of this trade who knows more about him than we do. Each year it's the same...the next savior we ecstatically embrace in the D-line...the list is long and for the most part undistinguished...yet each year there's another one...the one we knowingly nod and smile about as we wonder at the rank stupidity of the team that let him go...and in the entire 12 years of the Shanahan era, it turns out the lone guy who stayed here and made a major impact for this team for more than a short time was Trevor Pryce.

We DRAFTED him.

When have we brought in a d-lineman who people claimed as the savior on the d-line?

I sure as hell didn't think any of the brownies were, were you dumb enough to think they were?

[cutthemdown]

It all sounds great...till you remember there's another team on the other end of this trade who knows more about him than we do. Each year it's the same...the next savior we ecstatically embrace in the D-line...the list is long and for the most part undistinguished...yet each year there's another one...the one we knowingly nod and smile about as we wonder at the rank stupidity of the team that let him go...and in the entire 12 years of the Shanahan era, it turns out the lone guy who stayed here and made a major impact for this team for more than a short time was Trevor Pryce.

We DRAFTED him.

Remember Neil Smith and Alfred Williams?

[footstepsfrom#27]

When have we brought in a d-lineman who people claimed as the savior on the d-line?

I sure as hell didn't think any of the brownies were, were you dumb enough to think they were?
I wasn't...but a lot of people thought Courtney Brown was going to solve our problems, and there have been numerous other people had high hopes for.

Go check the long list of free agent acquisitions and trades for other team's castoff defensive linemen we've made in the last 12 years, and then check the list of guys we drafted high in the D-line...all 3 of them...and it becomes blatantly obvious we don't value the idea of drafting defensive linemen high. It's equally obvious we've never had a dominating defensive line on this team during that time.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Remember Neil Smith and Alfred Williams?
I mentioned them both in post #133, along with Michael Dean Perry...but I'm talking about a long term impact...not a year or two.

[BroncoInferno]

I wasn't...but a lot of people thought Courtney Brown was going to solve our problems.

Nobody thought Brown would "solve our problems", they thought that if healthy he could be a solid starter for our line at a bargain price. And for one year, those folks were right. The cost on Brown was so low that it would be hard to argue that bringing him in was a bad move, particularly since he did give us a key contribution on a 13-3 team. There are players who illustrate your point, but Brown is not one of them.

[Rascal]

I wasn't...but a lot of people thought Courtney Brown was going to solve our problems, and there have been numerous other people had high hopes for.

Go check the long list of free agent acquisitions and trades for other team's castoff defensive linemen we've made in the last 12 years, and then check the list of guys we drafted high in the D-line...all 3 of them...and it becomes blatantly obvious we don't value the idea of drafting defensive linemen high. It's equally obvious we've never had a dominating defensive line on this team during that time.

Who said Brown was going to be our savior along the d-line?

[sirhcyennek81]

I say get him and get him out of Carolina. Colorado has Richard Steadman up in Vail for knees. Carolina has beans and weinees. Colorado has organics and Wild Oats. Carolina has fried everything, white gravey, and BBQ. It all adds up to a helathy Jenkins as opposed to the artery clogged lard Jenkins. Just don't give up a first day pick.


Yes, because they dont have BBQ, Hotdogs or White gravy in colorado. :poke:


:Broncos:

[footstepsfrom#27]

Nobody thought Brown would "solve our problems", they thought that if healthy he could be a solid starter for our line at a bargain price. And for one year, those folks were right. The cost on Brown was so low that it would be hard to argue that bringing him in was a bad move, particularly since he did give us a key contribution on a 13-3 team. There are players who illustrate your point, but Brown is not one of them.
Well let's just say he's the latest and most talented in a long line of those that fostered optimism, only to see it short circuited soon after. A lot of fans don't even believe we should ever draft a defensive tackle in the first round because he might bust...like that's never happened with other positions (Nash...Middlebrooks...Foster...etc).

[Broncos_OTM]

I wasn't...but a lot of people thought Courtney Brown was going to solve our problems, and there have been numerous other people had high hopes for.

Go check the long list of free agent acquisitions and trades for other team's castoff defensive linemen we've made in the last 12 years, and then check the list of guys we drafted high in the D-line...all 3 of them...and it becomes blatantly obvious we don't value the idea of drafting defensive linemen high. It's equally obvious we've never had a dominating defensive line on this team during that time.

i guess you are forgetting Alfred Williams. Neil Smith. Micheal Dean Perry. Reggie Hayward. Bert Berry.Trevor Pryce. I see they were mentioned nevermind

[footstepsfrom#27]

i guess you are forgetting Alfred Williams. Neil Smith. Micheal Dean Perry. Reggie Hayward. Bert Berry.Trevor Pryce. I see they were mentioned nevermind
Welcome to the Mane. :thumbsup:

[cmhargrove]

Today's Article from the Charlotte observer:

IN MY OPINION
Jenkins' fate provides food for thought
TOM SORENSEN

JEFF SINER / Staff file photo
The Carolina Panthers have told other teams Pro Bowl defensive tackle Kris Jenkins could be available in a trade.
Q&A | Scott Fowler on Sports
Blog | Inside the Panthers
Forum | Talk about the Panthers
More Panthers and NFL news
Poll | Who should be the backup QB?
Miami QB situation in flux
NFL Draft: Who's on top, who'll drop, who'll swap
Panthers willing to trade Jenkins
I have a dream in which Kris Jenkins of the Carolina Panthers and Sean May of the Charlotte Bobcats come to my house for dinner.

They ask, "What are we having?"

I say, "Leftovers."

They ask, "What's a leftover?"

If you make your living with your body, you probably ought to keep it firm and functional and relatively lean. Jenkins and May do not, which is one reason they often are injured.

Jenkins, 27, was the best defensive tackle in the NFL. But his appetites are bigger than his game. He's 6-foot-4 and says that while injured his weight approached 400 pounds.

When he blew off the first two weeks of Carolina's conditioning program this spring, he became more expendable.

He already was expendable. The Panthers have other tackles who can do what he does, although not as well. What they don't have are one more safety, linebacker, receiver and defensive end, and they can't go into the season without them.

Receiver Steve Smith and defensive end Julius Peppers should insist. They are among the best in the league at their positions. But as the season wore on, they wore out. They were hit on more than a Victoria's Secret model at last call.

When Smith and Peppers beat their man, another was waiting, and he usually brought friends. If two players collect undue attention, a teammate at the same position must be running almost free.

But Carolina lacked the talent to exploit that flaw. Such talent is available in the NFL draft.

The Panthers already have the No. 14 pick. What is Jenkins worth? He's worth a decent draft pick, of course. How high? I suspect we'll soon find out.

There are things we already know. Carolina did great work in signing free agent David Carr. Seattle was considered the favorite because coach Mike Holmgren has a reputation for developing quarterbacks.

The Panthers must have impressed Carr with their style and a contract that averages $3 million a year (for the first two years) because they did not offer him a starting job. They already have a starter, and they think too highly of him to make a promise they won't keep.

Barring injury, Jake Delhomme starts.

The quarterbacks are so different they could be members of different species. Carr, who turns 28 in July, is the show pony. He was the No. 1 overall pick in 2002 and was expected to save the expansion Texans. Houston has yet to be saved.

Delhomme is the plow horse. Before he joined the Panthers he was waived so many times that when a director yelled "Cut!" Jake thought the guy was talking to him.

But Delhomme, 32, persevered. This is his team and almost everybody knows it. I accidentally wrote last season that Jake should be replaced by backup Chris Weinke. We run a notice in this newspaper that says, "If you see a mistake, please call us at 704-358-5040."

Thanks for not calling.

General managers will call about Jenkins and they should, because if he stays healthy he'll have another Pro Bowl season.

I always associate Jenkins with the Pro Bowl. I also associate him with plates. IN MY OPINION Tom Sorensen

[Atlas]

If Jenkins could be had for a 3rd or hell even a 2nd I would go for it. His $4 million salary is dirt cheap by todays standards. That raises another question if he is traded what are the chances he is going to demand his contract be redone? I think he is going to be a Ram. The Rams are in worse shape than Denver they are very familar with Jenkins and it just seems a natural fit. From the article it sounded like Carolina might want a first rounder for him.

[nickademus]

I just think that the FO has consistantly got it wrong with our D-line since the SB years. Bringing in FA's helped add the missing pieces when we made our SB runs but after Pryce there hasnt been first round talent to speak of there were other teams first round dissapointments but there wasnt really anyone who we drafted who we kept that has been up to the job.

[Drek]

O.K., lets take a real objective look at the Kris Jenkins situation.

Why would Carolina want to get rid of him?

He was injured a lot in '04 and '05, when a couple lesser but also less expensive options emerged. He played healthy last year but is going to make pretty good change, definately a fair sight more than the other DT options. His value is high, cap room is needed to fit the salaries of what is effectively two starting QBs, and their team needs more help at other positions. Trading Jenkins frees cap room and should return a pick that'll help address other needs.

Why would the Broncos be interested?

We need DL help badly, no one disagrees with that. Jenkins is exactly the type of DT Bates uses in his system. Our current special teams coach just recently left Carolina, so if there are major character issues regarding Jenkins he'd know and would be able to fill us in. For a middle first day pick we could potentially add an pro-bowl DT who is a great fit for our system.

I just don't see the dilemma here. If O'Brien says no way, he's a drunk asshole then fine don't pursue him. But if he gets a good reference from O'Brien and the price is reasonable then we should be all for it.

This isn't McGlockton, Dalton, Gardner, etc.. This is a proven pro-bowl DT who has some health questions decreasing his value. Its our biggest area of need, betting a 2nd or 3rd on a great player staying healthy is a lot better move than betting on a rookie ever emerging. If Jenkins can play he makes a difference, pretty much no rookie will be able to do that from day one.

[Odysseus]

O.K., lets take a real objective look at the Kris Jenkins situation.

Why would Carolina want to get rid of him?

He was injured a lot in '04 and '05, when a couple lesser but also less expensive options emerged. He played healthy last year but is going to make pretty good change, definately a fair sight more than the other DT options. His value is high, cap room is needed to fit the salaries of what is effectively two starting QBs, and their team needs more help at other positions. Trading Jenkins frees cap room and should return a pick that'll help address other needs.

Why would the Broncos be interested?

We need DL help badly, no one disagrees with that. Jenkins is exactly the type of DT Bates uses in his system. Our current special teams coach just recently left Carolina, so if there are major character issues regarding Jenkins he'd know and would be able to fill us in. For a middle first day pick we could potentially add an pro-bowl DT who is a great fit for our system.

I just don't see the dilemma here. If O'Brien says no way, he's a drunk a-hole then fine don't pursue him. But if he gets a good reference from O'Brien and the price is reasonable then we should be all for it.

This isn't McGlockton, Dalton, Gardner, etc.. This is a proven pro-bowl DT who has some health questions decreasing his value. Its our biggest area of need, betting a 2nd or 3rd on a great player staying healthy is a lot better move than betting on a rookie ever emerging. If Jenkins can play he makes a difference, pretty much no rookie will be able to do that from day one.

:thumbs:

[thumpc]

We just dangle a carrot and stick, or Ho-Hos and stick kind of contract out there and try him out.

[footstepsfrom#27]

O.K., lets take a real objective look at the Kris Jenkins situation.

Why would Carolina want to get rid of him?

He was injured a lot in '04 and '05, when a couple lesser but also less expensive options emerged. He played healthy last year but is going to make pretty good change, definately a fair sight more than the other DT options. His value is high, cap room is needed to fit the salaries of what is effectively two starting QBs, and their team needs more help at other positions. Trading Jenkins frees cap room and should return a pick that'll help address other needs.
Good points, but you left one out. The Panthers had a better run defense in 2005 without Jenkins than they did with him in 2006. In 2005 they gave up 17 yards a game and .3 yards per carry less than they did in 2006 with Jenkins in the lineup. It appears the "lesser and less expensive options" performed fairly well for them...maybe better than Jenkins did.

Why would the Broncos be interested?

We need DL help badly, no one disagrees with that. Jenkins is exactly the type of DT Bates uses in his system. Our current special teams coach just recently left Carolina, so if there are major character issues regarding Jenkins he'd know and would be able to fill us in. For a middle first day pick we could potentially add an pro-bowl DT who is a great fit for our system.

I just don't see the dilemma here. If O'Brien says no way, he's a drunk a-hole then fine don't pursue him. But if he gets a good reference from O'Brien and the price is reasonable then we should be all for it.
Isn't the whole former coach's reference thing the reason we got the Browncos? Now he's gone, and so are most of his Browncos, and those that are left populate our worst unit. Food for thought...maybe the whole insider coaching info isn't what it's cracked up to be? Maybe it even works in reverse sometimes?
This isn't McGlockton, Dalton, Gardner, etc.. This is a proven pro-bowl DT who has some health questions decreasing his value.
McGlockton went to pro bowls too...4 to be exact.
Its our biggest area of need, betting a 2nd or 3rd on a great player staying healthy is a lot better move than betting on a rookie ever emerging. If Jenkins can play he makes a difference, pretty much no rookie will be able to do that from day one.
First of all, Scott Fowler of the Charlotte Observer thinks the Panthers will want a 1st rounder:(http://www.realcities.com/mld/charlotte/sports/columnists/scott_fowler/qa_forum.html) But assuming they can be talked down, (a considerable assumption if the rumors of the Rams interest are true) that 2nd round pick so many are happy to give away might be the major part of the ammunition we need to move up into the top 10 of this draft. If you knew right now today that Patrick Willils or LaRon Landry were going to be there at 10...or possibly even Gaines Adams or Jamal Anderson...all 21-22 years old and healthy...would you make the move for a guy who has missed 2 of the last 3 seasons with a torn ACL, torn labrum in his shoulder, and a torn bicep...a guy who also baloons to nearly 400 pounds and then decides he doesn't want to attend off season workouts? A guy who is rumored to have depression problems? Along with this...at least one report suggests that he's not been the same player since he signed a big contract: http://rotoworld.com/Content/playerpages/player_previousnews.aspx?sport=NFL&id=2375 Is that true or not? I have no idea but it doesn't seem unlikely or inconsistent with the other reports about him not wanting to attend off season conditioning programs despite his weight problems.

I want to get younger and more talented without the problems we seem so willing to continuously take on. Maybe Jenkins comes in here and wows people with his attitude, his physical condition, his health and his desire to play the game. The fact two weeks ago we were still chasing a similiar player who made it fairly obvious he didn't want to even be here and had no intention of even returning a phone call leaves me skeptical any of the above are likely.

[dbfan21]

Big fatties aren't cheap in the NFL, especially ones that can actually take on two OLs and still hold their ground.

Adding Jenkins would be a one stop cure all for our DL, he and Warren would dominate the interior, freeing our DEs to freelance amazingly well. Then draft Patrick Willis or Jarvis Moss in round one and the D is looking pretty damn good.

I'd hope we could give something like a #70 this year with an '08 conditional pick based on games played in case he gets hurt again, ranging from a 4th to a 6th (14+ games = 4th, >8 = 5th, anything else 6th).

I'd feel the same way about getting Shaun Rogers, but I'd want to offer a little less for him, he's not the proven stud that Jenkins is.

Great post! I agree. With Jenkins and Warren controlling the inside, our DEs would have a lot of success attaching from the edges. Couple that with the aggressive LB scheme Bates likes to run and you have yourself a productive defensive front with athletic DBs to nullify the pass (Bailey, Bly, Lynch and Fergy: quite possibly one of the best defensive backfields in the NFL).

I can't wait to see how things play out this offseason! As it stands now, acquiring Bates was one of the best moves I've seen from the Broncos in a couple years.

[Mediator12]

Good points, but you left one out. The Panthers had a better run defense in 2005 without Jenkins than they did with him in 2006. In 2005 they gave up 17 yards a game and .3 yards per carry less than they did in 2006 with Jenkins in the lineup. It appears the "lesser and less expensive options" performed fairly well for them...maybe better than Jenkins did.


Isn't the whole former coach's reference thing the reason we got the Browncos? Now he's gone, and so are most of his Browncos, and those that are left populate our worst unit. Food for thought...maybe the whole insider coaching info isn't what it's cracked up to be? Maybe it even works in reverse sometimes?

McGlockton went to pro bowls too...4 to be exact.

First of all, Scott Fowler of the Charlotte Observer thinks the Panthers will want a 1st rounder:(http://www.realcities.com/mld/charlotte/sports/columnists/scott_fowler/qa_forum.html) But assuming they can be talked down, (a considerable assumption if the rumors of the Rams interest are true) that 2nd round pick so many are happy to give away might be the major part of the ammunition we need to move up into the top 10 of this draft. If you knew right now today that Patrick Willils or LaRon Landry were going to be there at 10...or possibly even Gaines Adams or Jamal Anderson...all 21-22 years old and healthy...would you make the move for a guy who has missed 2 of the last 3 seasons with a torn ACL, torn labrum in his shoulder, and a torn bicep...a guy who also baloons to nearly 400 pounds and then decides he doesn't want to attend off season workouts? A guy who is rumored to have depression problems? Along with this...at least one report suggests that he's not been the same player since he signed a big contract: http://rotoworld.com/Content/playerpages/player_previousnews.aspx?sport=NFL&id=2375 Is that true or not? I have no idea but it doesn't seem unlikely or inconsistent with the other reports about him not wanting to attend off season conditioning programs despite his weight problems.

I want to get younger and more talented without the problems we seem so willing to continuously take on. Maybe Jenkins comes in here and wows people with his attitude, his physical condition, his health and his desire to play the game. The fact two weeks ago we were still chasing a similiar player who made it fairly obvious he didn't want to even be here and had no intention of even returning a phone call leaves me skeptical any of the above are likely.

I understand you are skeptical of acquiring him, but open your eyes and watch the film on him would you. I am not sure you saw him play at all last year. I have two games from last year versus the Bengals (good OL) and the Bucs (Poor OL). He was equally dominant in both games and teams ran away from him more often than not according to FO's DL stats.

Carolina's Defense was susceptible to off tackle and outside than at Jenkins and DT's in general. The reason their total yards rushing went up was due to Dan Morgan being out and poor safety play allowing a disproportionate amount of ten + yard plays outside. They improved to Number 2 against Power running and number 3 for stuffing the run from the year before without Jenkins.

He also was their DT who smashed the interior on passing plays. Kemoteau played the NT and Jenkins the U/LDT. They also lost Jordan Karstens, the starter when Jenkins was out due to injury, and he is now back and healthy. They have a legit 5 man DT rotation and the reason they are really upset at Jenkins is that he and the Staff have had issues in the past and Fox is a stern disciplinarian. They really do have four other quality DT's in Kemoteau, Karstens, Lewis, and Moorehead who are young and developing well. I had wanted DEN to trade for one of them last offseason as Jenkins came back as they are all better than what we had last year on tape.

Jenkins is finally expendable in their eyes and they have a lot of pressing needs that can be better addressed by using Jenkins to acquire another pick. He has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way in Carolina, just like Broncos players have daone to denver fans in the past. Does not make him less of a player on the field. Does it make him a risk, Sure. But again, he is a top 20 player in the NFL at a premier position and one of desperate need to DEN.

He is equivalent to Champ Bailey on the field at a position that impacts every defensive snap. He is 26 years old, the same age WAS was allowing Bailey to seek a trade. Bailey was also regarded as expendable by WAS fans and written off. Bailey was NOT regarded as the Hands down best CB in the league before he came to DEN. He was a top 5 guy that many people complained got burned too often. How has that worked out for DEN?

The fans still think they got the better end on that deal?!? Fans know very little about what a player can really do, most regurgitate the media and offer little analysis and no one over on that Panthers board even had a clue to what he does every snap.

This is a player worth the risk, not a has potential, reclamation project. The CLE guys were all considered Busts before they got to DEN. And after two years, it is easy to see why. They are not playmakers or even difference makers for the defense, they are strict liabilities that brought the whole defense down the last two years. They got a reprieve after 2005because Coyer had to play a cover zero to cover for their asses and they went to the AFC championship despite their poor play. So, DEN went and got another one? Do you really think they are going to draft a DT worth a damn?

I for one want them to explore making a difference on the DL as soon as possible. Exploring this and doing their due diligence would be a step in the right direction. Problem is, their is no word of them being involved yet. That is what bothers me. They will stake the defense on BS up front and tell the DC to deal with it. Bates is a very good DC with a proven track record. However, he had quality DL play where he was with at least one and more likely two playmakers on those DL's. He better hope Shanahan gets him some real horses up front, or the Press man scheme he runs will not stand up if the QB has time in this league.

[watermock]

I have no doubt that we have at least talked to them. If he can be had for a 3rd without giving up Wilson it's a no brainer. If they do want Wilson, and evidently he's fallen out of favor for whatever reason, Wilson and Washington's 4th next year would be fine as well.

I said before, both players would have to pass physicals so what is the big deal here? Do due dilligence on the knee, particuliarly if he's befret of cartilage. Run his knee thru an MRI and it's all pretty simple. Lost cartilage is the enemy more than an ACL alone. I might wander into enemy territory and ask.

[Drek]

Good points, but you left one out. The Panthers had a better run defense in 2005 without Jenkins than they did with him in 2006. In 2005 they gave up 17 yards a game and .3 yards per carry less than they did in 2006 with Jenkins in the lineup. It appears the "lesser and less expensive options" performed fairly well for them...maybe better than Jenkins did.
Did you even check the supporting staff they had last year compared to '05? Maybe having Dan Morgan and Will Witherspoon healthy effected those numbers a little, eh?


Isn't the whole former coach's reference thing the reason we got the Browncos? Now he's gone, and so are most of his Browncos, and those that are left populate our worst unit. Food for thought...maybe the whole insider coaching info isn't what it's cracked up to be? Maybe it even works in reverse sometimes?

The only "browncos" who isn't on the team anymore are Meyers and Brown, one of those is gone due to injury issues, the other is supposedly back in communication with the Broncos. Meanwhile the FO saw fit to give Warren a big contract and Ekuban was our best DL by a mile last year.


McGlockton went to pro bowls too...4 to be exact.

And we brought McGlockton in for years 11 and 12 of his career, four years removed from his last pro-bowl season. Not really comparable to getting a 26 year old who has pro-bowled in his last three healthy seasons.

First of all, Scott Fowler of the Charlotte Observer thinks the Panthers will want a 1st rounder:(http://www.realcities.com/mld/charlotte/sports/columnists/scott_fowler/qa_forum.html) But assuming they can be talked down, (a considerable assumption if the rumors of the Rams interest are true) that 2nd round pick so many are happy to give away might be the major part of the ammunition we need to move up into the top 10 of this draft. If you knew right now today that Patrick Willils or LaRon Landry were going to be there at 10...or possibly even Gaines Adams or Jamal Anderson...all 21-22 years old and healthy...would you make the move for a guy who has missed 2 of the last 3 seasons with a torn ACL, torn labrum in his shoulder, and a torn bicep...a guy who also baloons to nearly 400 pounds and then decides he doesn't want to attend off season workouts? A guy who is rumored to have depression problems? Along with this...at least one report suggests that he's not been the same player since he signed a big contract: http://rotoworld.com/Content/playerpages/player_previousnews.aspx?sport=NFL&id=2375 Is that true or not? I have no idea but it doesn't seem unlikely or inconsistent with the other reports about him not wanting to attend off season conditioning programs despite his weight problems.

Obviously we wouldn't give a first for him. Thats a preposterous asking price and no team, including the Rams, will meet it.


I want to get younger and more talented without the problems we seem so willing to continuously take on. Maybe Jenkins comes in here and wows people with his attitude, his physical condition, his health and his desire to play the game. The fact two weeks ago we were still chasing a similiar player who made it fairly obvious he didn't want to even be here and had no intention of even returning a phone call leaves me skeptical any of the above are likely.
As I said previously, Jenkins is 26, we'd get younger by having him. If we picked him up he'd be getting roughly ~3.5M over the next three years, none of it guaranteed as Carolina would've picked that up. Thats not big money. So its a financially safe move to get young, previously elite DL talent that will be playing for a new deal in the near future. What's not to like?

I also don't care for the idea of trading up. We need athletic depth at several positions, we'll only get that by keeping our four first day picks. We don't need second day projects so our lack of picks there is no big deal. But dealing a big chunk of day one to move up after a safety, in a class deep on safeties, or an MLB, when we still have our Pro-Bowl MLB on the roster and a new defensive scheme that would work nearly as well with a 2nd or 3rd round LB for a fraction of the cost, doesn't strike me as the best move.

Had you said trading up for Okoye, Thomas, Adams, Anderson, or Johnson I could see it, they're elite talents worthy of the money a top 10 pick will get and they address their positions far better than we'd likely do in the long term. That said, if it was the choice between 21 and Jenkins or one of those four I'd take the former. A healthy Jenkins addresses our biggest need and makes us competitive immediately as opposed to waiting for a rookie to develop. That from a guy who's only 26 and contract controlled for less money than we're giving Warren for three more seasons.

Of course in a dream scenario we can trade Wilson and a little extra, like the late 3rd, for Jenkins. Then we have the option of going after Willis if he can be had for reasonable cost (#21 and #70, then I'm game). But if we can't get him that doesn't mean a guy like Quincy Black can't be selected in the 3rd and provide us with a play making MLB.

[Atwater His Ass]

I wouldn't be against bringing Jenkins in and then drafting DE on the first day.

[watermock]

Move down a few spots and get Griffin, say 24, then move up in round two and try to hope Pittman is there. Sign Jenkins for a third and spend the other one another DE. I don't see why we let Predator go if they planned on dumping Wilson. Something fishy there too.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Jenkins is finally expendable in their eyes and they have a lot of pressing needs that can be better addressed by using Jenkins to acquire another pick. He has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way in Carolina, just like Broncos players have daone to denver fans in the past. Does not make him less of a player on the field. Does it make him a risk, Sure. But again, he is a top 20 player in the NFL at a premier position and one of desperate need to DEN.

He is equivalent to Champ Bailey on the field at a position that impacts every defensive snap. He is 26 years old, the same age WAS was allowing Bailey to seek a trade. Bailey was also regarded as expendable by WAS fans and written off. Bailey was NOT regarded as the Hands down best CB in the league before he came to DEN. He was a top 5 guy that many people complained got burned too often. How has that worked out for DEN?

The fans still think they got the better end on that deal?!? Fans know very little about what a player can really do, most regurgitate the media and offer little analysis and no one over on that Panthers board even had a clue to what he does every snap.
OK...I get it now...he's just as good as Champ Bailey...the fans and media in the city he plays in who watch him every game don't know jack **** about what he's really doing on the field...and we shouldn't worry because other Broncos have been turds off the field as well.

He sounds perfect. Hilarious!

Now tell me how we get him to get in shape so he won't be sucking wind at 5,280 feet in the 4th quarter IF his knee and shoulder hold up and I'm on board with this move. :thumbsup:

[watermock]

The Tribe has spoken. Put out your torch and leave the camp.

[watermock]

OK...I get it now...he's just as good as Champ Bailey...the fans and media in the city he plays in who watch him every game don't know jack **** about what he's really doing on the field...and we shouldn't worry because other Broncos have been turds off the field as well.

He sounds perfect. Hilarious!

Now tell me how we get him to get in shape so he won't be sucking wind at 5,280 feet in the 4th quarter IF his knee and shoulder hold up and I'm on board with this move. :thumbsup:

You obviously DON'T get it at all. Who said he was as good as Bailey? Bailey didn't, Bly didn't, and noone here said it. The argument was that they expect to be the best TANDUM.

Gee...he won't be able to acclimate to the altitude when every other player is able to? Is he a chain smoker or something? More BS.

We went a whole season without issues and the Marshall issue is not resolved. The past isn't the present or the future.

The shoulder was surgically repaired and fine. BTW, Wilson has had both done. As far as the knee goes, they will do a physical and most likely an MRI.

I usually just skim over your posts honestly.

[Popcorn Sutton]

Now tell me how we get him to get in shape so he won't be sucking wind at 5,280 feet in the 4th quarter...

Perhaps you've just outlined a big reason why we can't seem to find any dominant fatties to stuff the middle of the D Line. It's probably not easy to maintain a weight of 340 pounds and play at a mile high for 4 quarters...

[Mediator12]

OK...I get it now...he's just as good as Champ Bailey...the fans and media in the city he plays in who watch him every game don't know jack **** about what he's really doing on the field...and we shouldn't worry because other Broncos have been turds off the field as well.

He sounds perfect. Hilarious!

Now tell me how we get him to get in shape so he won't be sucking wind at 5,280 feet in the 4th quarter IF his knee and shoulder hold up and I'm on board with this move. :thumbsup:

No, you have already made up your mind and have no idea who you are talking about here and have proved it by making a case based on media reports and innuendo. This guy does not compare on the football field to any player they have tried to ever acquire from any other team on the DL.

And, he a consensus top 3 DT when he is on the field by almost everyone. Just like Bailey was when DEN traded for him. I said he was the equivalent of Bailey at his position when he was on the field and I will stand by that assesment as I have watched him play snaps and reviewed his game film. I know what I am assessing too. Do you? And, you make that post cherry picking points without ever answering the question if you saw him play last year. Well, did you? If so, what about his play concerns you?

In short, I am talking about the entire situation of acquiring a player that Dominates at DT when on the field. You simply seem biased about past moves the Broncos have done, media conjecture about his weight and attitude, and are unwillingy to make any football observations about a great football player.

[footstepsfrom#27]

The only "browncos" who isn't on the team anymore are Meyers and Brown, one of those is gone due to injury issues, the other is supposedly back in communication with the Broncos. Meanwhile the FO saw fit to give Warren a big contract and Ekuban was our best DL by a mile last year.
So I take it you view this as a positive? :kiddingme
And we brought McGlockton in for years 11 and 12 of his career, four years removed from his last pro-bowl season. Not really comparable to getting a 26 year old who has pro-bowled in his last three healthy seasons.
He'll be 27 when the season starts...more to the point though; Jenkins has already missed more games due to injury that Chester the Buffet Molestor did in his entire 12 year career.
Obviously we wouldn't give a first for him. Thats a preposterous asking price and no team, including the Rams, will meet it.
Why not? If he's as good as you all seem to think he is, that seems pretty reasonable. If he's not...why are you so interested?
As I said previously, Jenkins is 26, we'd get younger by having him. If we picked him up he'd be getting roughly ~3.5M over the next three years, none of it guaranteed as Carolina would've picked that up. Thats not big money. So its a financially safe move to get young, previously elite DL talent that will be playing for a new deal in the near future. What's not to like?
What's not to like? Check the long torturous history of our D-line moves through trades and free agency and you'll see what's not to like. I don't care about the money...I care about losing a 2nd...possibly also a 3rd round pick...ammunition we could use for a move up into the top 10 of this draft where we could get a guy who is 1) 5 or 6 years younger 2) healthy, meaning he isn't coming off a torn ACL and a bad shoulder 3) isn't 50 pounds overweight 4) isn't battling an alcohol and depression problem, and 5) might actually be willing to show up for off season conditioning workouts, thus demonstrating he gives a crap.

Other than that...it's all good! ROFL!
I also don't care for the idea of trading up. We need athletic depth at several positions, we'll only get that by keeping our four first day picks. We don't need second day projects so our lack of picks there is no big deal.
Wrong. It's the 2nd day picks that distinguish the New England's and Pittsburgh drafts from the kind Denver's had up till the last two years. Those players eventually make up the bread and butter of your team.
But dealing a big chunk of day one to move up after a safety, in a class deep on safeties, or an MLB, when we still have our Pro-Bowl MLB on the roster and a new defensive scheme that would work nearly as well with a 2nd or 3rd round LB for a fraction of the cost, doesn't strike me as the best move.
So you're position is...1) LaRon Landry wouldn't be any better than a guy in the 3rd round because of this magical scheme we're employing, 2) Al Wilson will be playing this year, 3) and 3rd round LB's in this draft will be just as satisfactory as Patrick Willis.

OK...you've convinced me. Hilarious!
Had you said trading up for Okoye, Thomas, Adams, Anderson, or Johnson I could see it, they're elite talents worthy of the money a top 10 pick will get and they address their positions far better than we'd likely do in the long term.
Okoye...I've stated numerous times is a guy I'd love to have. I think he's better than Branch with more upside and can rush the passer. Thomas is nowhere near a top 10 pick...not even 1st round...he's a problem looking for a place to happen. We all know Johnson won't be there at 10. It's a possibility one of the three...Okoye, Adams or Anderson...slides to 10...stranger things have happened.
That said, if it was the choice between 21 and Jenkins or one of those four I'd take the former. A healthy Jenkins addresses our biggest need and makes us competitive immediately as opposed to waiting for a rookie to develop. That from a guy who's only 26 and contract controlled for less money than we're giving Warren for three more seasons.
"Competitive" is a word I reserve for guys who don't balloon to 400 pounds and refuse to show up for off season workouts. He's got talent...some think he was more competitive before he got the big contract.
Of course in a dream scenario we can trade Wilson and a little extra, like the late 3rd, for Jenkins. Then we have the option of going after Willis if he can be had for reasonable cost (#21 and #70, then I'm game). But if we can't get him that doesn't mean a guy like Quincy Black can't be selected in the 3rd and provide us with a play making MLB.
That's a dream allright. We don't even know if Wilson will ever play again. Right now there appears to be no interest in him around the league...so how is it we can suddenly trade him plus a 3rd for a guy you say is a huge difference maker? The writer who covers the team says they want a 1st rounder...early 2nd at worst...so if they don't get it...they can just keep him. Nobody's forcing them to trade Jenkins, including the player himself.

[-Slap-]

Footstepsfrom#32 is ten pounds of bull**** in a two pound sack.

[rbackfactory80]

Parcells used to say he was the best lineman in the NFL. Since then he has fought injury but man if you have seen him play he is a monster. I didn't watch a lot of Carolina games last year but in 2003 back when the Panthers went on the super bowl run he was sick as explosive as you can be.

[footstepsfrom#27]

You obviously DON'T get it at all. Who said he was as good as Bailey? Bailey didn't, Bly didn't, and noone here said it. The argument was that they expect to be the best TANDUM.
He is equivalent to Champ Bailey on the field at a position that impacts every defensive snap.
I usually just skim over your posts honestly.
Thanks for the compliment...I usually ignore yours entirely.

[watermock]

Perhaps you've just outlined a big reason why we can't seem to find any dominant fatties to stuff the middle of the D Line. It's probably not easy to maintain a weight of 340 pounds and play at a mile high for 4 quarters...

Rediculous. Players blow wind because they are not acclimated. All the BS about the altitude at Denver is complete bunk for those acclimated. People ski just fine skiing at 12,000 feet and have no problem with it. Denver is less than half that. That's just media bunk actually.

The media also likes to act like Denver is in the mountains when it is on the edge of the plains. The idea it's at high altitude is comical.

[55CrushEm]

Footstepsfrom#32 is ten pounds of bull**** in a two pound sack.

Ha!

[watermock]

Perhaps you've just outlined a big reason why we can't seem to find any dominant fatties to stuff the middle of the D Line. It's probably not easy to maintain a weight of 340 pounds and play at a mile high for 4 quarters...

Rediculous. Players blow wind because they are not acclimated. All the BS about the altitude at Denver is complete bunk for those acclimated. People ski just fine skiing at 12,000 feet and have no problem with it. Denver is less than half that. That's just media bunk actually.

The media also likes to act like Denver is in the mountains when it is on the edge of the plains. The idea it's at high altitude is comical.

Your going to tell me Gilbert on GB was sucking wind because of altitude? It's not altitude, it's conditioning. Period.

[55CrushEm]

Not to split hairs here....but I've seen a couple of people mention that Jenkins is only 26.

He's 27....and actually by the time the season starts...he'll be 28.

Again, not a huge point.....but since age is one of the reasons that some some think we should trade for him.....thought I'd bring it up. Perhaps it offers some to give "second thought" to the trade....

.....perhaps not.

[Gcver2ver3]

Trade Al Wilson for Kris Jenkins straight up....

[Odysseus]

Great post! I agree. With Jenkins and Warren controlling the inside, our DEs would have a lot of success attaching from the edges. Couple that with the aggressive LB scheme Bates likes to run and you have yourself a productive defensive front with athletic DBs to nullify the pass (Bailey, Bly, Lynch and Fergy: quite possibly one of the best defensive backfields in the NFL).

I can't wait to see how things play out this offseason! As it stands now, acquiring Bates was one of the best moves I've seen from the Broncos in a couple years.

When we got Coyer I thought it was a great move working with a guy on board rather than what was available at the time. I think Bates is going to prove a better coach and stronger long term solution.

The depth of Defensive Tackle in next year's draft minimizes Jenkins risk factor and if he is healthy plays to our advantage for potential depth.

[shakenbake]

OK...I get it now...he's just as good as Champ Bailey...the fans and media in the city he plays in who watch him every game don't know jack **** about what he's really doing on the field...and we shouldn't worry because other Broncos have been turds off the field as well. He sounds perfect. Hilarious!


From what I have read, those fans you speak of that seem to want Kris Jenkins gone, also want a first round draft pick in return for him. hardly seems as if they are saying he is the worthless fat SOB you make him out to be.

[footstepsfrom#27]

No, you have already made up your mind and have no idea who you are talking about here and have proved it by making a case based on media reports and innuendo.
Actually I haven't made up my mind, and I stated as much earlier when I said I was not necessarily opposed to the move, but neither am I going ape **** over this like some of you are...I've seen a lot of these kinds of deals go down in the past...high expectations from talented players...just pretend that little "off the field" problem doesn't really exist though...we've been burned more often than we've been successful on that game. As for making a case through the media...I contend the fans and media in the city he plays in should have their opinions heard, because unlike you I don't consider them idiots, especially when that opinion seems to suggest he's not the player he once was before he had his ACL surgically repaired . I guess if you were in Detroit right now you'd be hog wild over getting Foster and Bell and laughing at the poor fools on the Mane who expressed their missgivings with these guys...right?
This guy does not compare on the football field to any player they have tried to ever acquire from any other team on the DL.
I've seen him play numerous times...I know he's been a stud in the past...what isn't readily apparent is what he is NOW...which is all I care about.
And, he a consensus top 3 DT when he is on the field by almost everyone. Just like Bailey was when DEN traded for him. I said he was the equivalent of Bailey at his position when he was on the field and I will stand by that assesment as I have watched him play snaps and reviewed his game film.
Champ Bailey never balooned out of shape and refused to attend off season workouts. Talent is one thing...heart is another. Give me heart over talent if I have to choose. Give me both if I don't.
I know what I am assessing too. Do you?
And why is that? Are you an NFL scout or just another fan with an opinion?
And, you make that post cherry picking points without ever answering the question if you saw him play last year. Well, did you? If so, what about his play concerns you?
I didn't "cherry pick" the thread from the panther board. If you actually clicked the link you'd know I included posts from fans who also wanted to keep him. Did I see him play last year? Yea...I saw them play against Dallas and get smoked. Did I have my eyes glued to the screen scanning every play for Kris Jenkins? No...I doubt you did either. So what? Most of my argument is centered around OTHER PROBLEMS than his play on the field anyway. I'm just reporting what some of the hometown fans and media think of the guy...that's relevant whether you think so or not.
In short, I am talking about the entire situation of acquiring a player that Dominates at DT when on the field. You simply seem biased about past moves the Broncos have done, media conjecture about his weight and attitude, and are unwillingy to make any football observations about a great football player.
Right...which is why the Panthers are more than willing to part with the guy...apparently for a pittance...because he's a great player with no other issues to be concerned about, these moves have a history of panning out for us, and we all know that all pro defensive tackles are a dime a dozen anyway. ROFL!

[c_lazy_r]

Footstepsfrom#32 is ten pounds of bull**** in a two pound sack.

LOL

[shakenbake]

I also want to add that the same reporter you quoted, wrote last year that Jake Delhome should be replaced by Chris weinke, and that if Kris Jenkins in healthy he will have another pro-bowl season. The 400lbs deal happened when he was injured and isn't his current weight.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Not to split hairs here....but I've seen a couple of people mention that Jenkins is only 26.

He's 27....and actually by the time the season starts...he'll be 28.

Again, not a huge point.....but since age is one of the reasons that some some think we should trade for him.....thought I'd bring it up. Perhaps it offers some to give "second thought" to the trade....

.....perhaps not.
Correct...the better question is, how old is his knee?

[footstepsfrom#27]

I also want to add that the same reporter you quoted, wrote last year that Jake Delhome should be replaced by Chris weinke, and that if Kris Jenkins in healthy he will have another pro-bowl season. The 400lbs deal happened when he was injured and isn't his current weight.
So that makes all his views irrelevant? I'm guessing every reporter is wrong on something...it's not like Jake Delhome is Johnny Unitas. His weight has not just balooned because of his knee however. Other reports say it happens every year in the off season, but it was worse when he had surgery.

And what are we to make of the fact that he refuses to report to off season conditioning workouts in order to get himiself in shape? I guess we should ignore that...right? I mean, it doesn't really fit with our fantasy world where we grab off an all pro defensive tackle who leads us to Superbowl glory for a 3rd round pick so why give that point any thought?

[footstepsfrom#27]

From what I have read, those fans you speak of that seem to want Kris Jenkins gone, also want a first round draft pick in return for him. hardly seems as if they are saying he is the worthless fat SOB you make him out to be.
Some said that...some said they figured they'd not be able to get that much. I read the entire thread. So what? Fans always hope they can get more than a player's worth. This whole board watches the Redskins every year wondering if we can somehow screw them again.

[c_lazy_r]

So that makes all his views irrelevant? I'm guessing every reporter is wrong on something...it's not like Jake Delhome is Johnny Unitas. His weight has not just balooned because of his knee however. Other reports say it happens every year in the off season, but it was worse when he had surgery.

And what are we to make of the fact that he refuses to report to off season conditioning workouts in order to get himiself in shape? I guess we should ignore that...right? I mean, it doesn't really fit with our fantasy world where we grab off an all pro defensive tackle who leads us to Superbowl glory for a 3rd round pick so why give that point any thought?

I don't suppose you have links for these reports, do you. I didn't want to re-read the whole thread to find them.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I don't suppose you have links for these reports, do you. I didn't want to re-read the whole thread to find them.
There were several...30 minutes ago I had half a dozen windows open...here's one I still had up from the Charlotte Observer...not the best one but it makes the point his weight is an ongoing problem: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/129/story/77146.html It appears the reason he's on the block in the first place is because he won't show up for the off season conditioning program....this is well past his knee injury of course.

However, I thought his Pro Bowl selection last year was something of a mirage -- I don't believe he had a year nearly as good as the one he posted in 2003. DTs and OLs are sometimes selected to the Pro Bowl more by reputation than by actual play. Remember, No.77 played in only 5 of a possible 32 games in 2004 and '05 due to injury. He is rarely in great -- or even in very good -- shape. The Panthers believe they are far deeper at DT than at other positions and that's why I think they are shopping him for a first-day draft pick. I think this is an fine move only IF THEY HIT A HOME RUN ON THE RESULTING DRAFT PICK. I'm just not sure Jenkins' body will hold up well enough for him to be a big-time force again.

Scott Fowler 4/08/07

[c_lazy_r]

So that makes all his views irrelevant? I'm guessing every reporter is wrong on something...it's not like Jake Delhome is Johnny Unitas. His weight has not just balooned because of his knee however. Other reports say it happens every year in the off season, but it was worse when he had surgery.

And what are we to make of the fact that he refuses to report to off season conditioning workouts in order to get himiself in shape? I guess we should ignore that...right? I mean, it doesn't really fit with our fantasy world where we grab off an all pro defensive tackle who leads us to Superbowl glory for a 3rd round pick so why give that point any thought?

I appreciate your caution and understand where you are coming from. However, you are suggesting that "reports" show that every offseason he balloons up to 400 lbs and never shows up for conditioning workouts. I think that, based on what I've seen, this is inaccurate.

What I've taken from all of this is that he weighed 400 when injured and has missed the most recent camp. To me, that doesn't indicate it's an ongoing and inevitable problem.

Your position is that you would rather have draft picks. I agree that the picks are good but in this case you can get a proven player with a tremendous upside and rather low risk. Very, very similar to the J. Walker trade last year. Get proven talent versus rolling the dice with the draft.

I hope like he11 they make a push for him. You gotta assume that our FO will do their homework before actiually making the trade.

I would much rather give up the pick(s) than trade Al, though.

[DivineLegion]

I was just in the Queen city visting my best friend at UNC Charolette. While I was down there I talked to a buch of Die hard Panters fans at Buffalo Wild Wings. They dident think anything was going to happen it was just a Rumor. They did say however they wouldent mind Al Wilson and a 3rd for Jenkins wich I would gladly trade. Carolina has alot of gaps to fill and if they can get thier hands on a franchise QB they would take Quinn before Patrick Willis so IF they get a shot at Quinn keep your eyes pealed on the Broncos on Draft day because the Panters might be willing to make a Trade if they gather extra picks.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I appreciate your caution and understand where you are coming from. However, you are suggesting that "reports" show that every offseason he balloons up to 400 lbs and never shows up for conditioning workouts. I think that, based on what I've seen, this is inaccurate.
I never said he balooned to 400 pounds every off season. Multiple reports do state that he is out of shape and overweight on a regular basis, but his weight got considerably more out of hand after his surgery. The fact that I don't have time to search for all this again shouldn't keep you from using Google however, since you're the one looking for that information. I've provided one...you can find more if you look.
What I've taken from all of this is that he weighed 400 when injured and has missed the most recent camp. To me, that doesn't indicate it's an ongoing and inevitable problem.
The question you should be asking is, "WHY did he miss the off season conditioning program?" Second would be, "Do we really want a guy on the team who lacks the committment to get himself in shape when he's had weight problems in the past?"

I think those are reasonable questions.
Your position is that you would rather have draft picks. I agree that the picks are good but in this case you can get a proven player with a tremendous upside and rather low risk. Very, very similar to the J. Walker trade last year. Get proven talent versus rolling the dice with the draft.
You're minimizing the risk and maximizing the value here. I see zero parallels with Javon Walker, who came in and rehabbed himself like crazy to demonstrate his desire to get back on the field. This guy won't even show up for workouts...big difference. We don't know if he has the same upside he once did. According to some people who apparently watch him on a regular basis he has not played like he once did after he signed his big contract, and his play fell off after the return from surgery according to some of those same individuals. I suggest we not arbitrarily assume those who watch him more than we have are stupid, which one poster has already said is the case. Why do we always think we can do what another team couldn't with these guys? As for rolling the dice...I believe, like the Patriots and Steelers...that the draft is how you build a consistent contender that can challenge year in and year out. Some people resign themselves to discarding our draft picks because they figue we're doomed to repeat our failures in the draft so why not just junk our picks? I think we should simply become better at drafting.
I hope like he11 they make a push for him. You gotta assume that our FO will do their homework before actiually making the trade.
Why would you assume that? Did they do their homework on Big Daddy? No...he didn't want to even be here. How much "homework" would that have taken? Precious little. Did we do our homework on Al before sending him off to New York to publicly flunk a physical in front of the entire NFL? Did we do our homework on Willie Middlebrooks...Patterson and his Browncos? IHOP? We have a long history of trading or getting free agent defensive linemen. Most of the time those players have lasted a year, maybe two...and returned little more than stop gap solutions that failed to improve our defense. When we have had superior D-linemen, we let them walk out the door rather than pay them. If trades and FA acquisitions of D-linemen were how you win Superbowls, we'd have several more by now. I'd rather have young talent that comes without the issues, though based on our refusal to draft a defensive lineman in the first round that sounds unlikely. BTW...if you want to read something disturbing on Jenkins and his mental state of mind with regard to his drinking and what he says caused it...check this out: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8077502/ Forget his physical health...I'm not at all sure this guy is MENTALLY HEALTHY either.

[Drek]

Perhaps you've just outlined a big reason why we can't seem to find any dominant fatties to stuff the middle of the D Line. It's probably not easy to maintain a weight of 340 pounds and play at a mile high for 4 quarters...

Please. Our DL problems are directly attributable to never investing picks or money in real talent, instead employing a patchwork line of retreads and second day picks. Its pretty damn obvious why our DL has sucked, it's been poorly manned, poorly coached, and poorly utilized on gameday for years now. Bates is here to change that though, thank god.

So I take it you view this as a positive? :kiddingme
When Ekuban had nearly 70 tackles and 7 sacks, yeah, I do. He had a good year. Lang did pretty well despite being forced into a larger role (starter instead of rotation player) than he should've been in. Warren had a very good '05, then played poorly last year but took a pay cut in response to it. I'm more than happy to give him a shot to get right post-injuries for the '07 campaign.

On a whole I'd say the "browncos" experiment paid off pretty well. We gave up a system back and a 4th round pick that gave us low cost starters to get two league average or a little better starting DLs. Before that we had Pryce and a bunch of guys who shouldn't be in the league, let alone starting.


He'll be 27 when the season starts...more to the point though; Jenkins has already missed more games due to injury that Chester the Buffet Molestor did in his entire 12 year career.
Yeah, so? I don't think anyone is denying the potential injury risk with Jenkins, but as a guy in his mid/late 20's he has a lot more football ahead of him than McGlockton did when he joined us, at already over 30 years old. Its a horrible comparison, it was groundless of you to make it, so just get to the real point of your argument.


Why not? If he's as good as you all seem to think he is, that seems pretty reasonable. If he's not...why are you so interested?

Name the last player traded for a first round pick. It simply doesn't happen in today's NFL. First round picks are too valuable. Is Jenkins a better player than anyone we'd get at #21? Probably, but so was Javon Walker last year, we didn't give a first for him.


What's not to like? Check the long torturous history of our D-line moves through trades and free agency and you'll see what's not to like.

Check our draft history while we're at it. Nothing we've done for over half a decade now has solved our DL issues.


I don't care about the money...I care about losing a 2nd...possibly also a 3rd round pick...ammunition we could use for a move up into the top 10 of this draft where we could get a guy who is 1) 5 or 6 years younger 2) healthy, meaning he isn't coming off a torn ACL and a bad shoulder 3) isn't 50 pounds overweight 4) isn't battling an alcohol and depression problem, and 5) might actually be willing to show up for off season conditioning workouts, thus demonstrating he gives a crap.

We can't make it into the top ten of this draft without giving up almost the entire first day. Its NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Your dream of us getting Gaines Adams or Joe Thomas is just that, a dream. Accept it and start thinking about what moves this team could make to actually get better instead of beating a dead horse.

As for Jenkins issues:
1. 6 years younger but also totally unproven in the NFL.
2. Jenkins is a year removed from both injuries, the ideal recovery period from an ACL by the way, and you won't find any 320+ pound DTs who've played a good amount of football who don't have some injuries. Jenkins proved his health last year with starting a full season.
3. 50 pounds overweight? He's a gap filling DT, there's no such thing as overweight as far as we're concerned as long as he can still reach his arms around his gut to tackle. I don't care if he's 400 pounds opening day of the regular season as long as he stops the run, keeps blockers off our linebackers, and prevents double teams on our DEs. He could have a heart attack at 31 for all I care, his choice, just as long as he produces for the three years of his contract I'd be happy.
4. Rumored alcohol and depression problems. Has he ever been arrested for a DUI or public intoxication? Has he ever enrolled in therapy or openly admitted a depression problem? Not that I've ever seen, produce solid evidence to the contrary before just running with the speculation of beat writters who clearly want to throw the guy under the bus.
5. He spent all of the previous two off-seasons rehabbing injuries, can't blame the guy if he opts out of optional camps. Also, you know who else isn't attending optional workouts this spring? Al Wilson. When you're on the trading block why in hell would you show up and workout with a team looking to move you?


Wrong. It's the 2nd day picks that distinguish the New England's and Pittsburgh drafts from the kind Denver's had up till the last two years. Those players eventually make up the bread and butter of your team.

I've been singing that song for about half a decade now, but this season we have over 70 guys already on contract. Next year I look forward to our two fourths with eager anticipation, but this season we need three or four standout future starters. We simply don't have the roster space for more so the excess will be getting cut.


So you're position is...1) LaRon Landry wouldn't be any better than a guy in the 3rd round because of this magical scheme we're employing, 2) Al Wilson will be playing this year, 3) and 3rd round LB's in this draft will be just as satisfactory as Patrick Willis.

1. I said we could get a very good safety in round 1, not round 3, and we can. Nelson and Griffin will both be available. I love Landry's game but I don't want to give up two picks and pay twice as much as those two combined for the difference between Landry and Nelson or Griffin.
2. Just saying that until the Wilson bridge is officially burnt we shouldn't plan to blow our entire draft wad on getting his replacement, then we'll be paying said replacement just as much as we don't want to pay Wilson, with no proof he's even equal to an aging Wilson.
3. I didn't say a 3rd round LB would be just as good as Willis, but a guy like Quincy Black or Siler for SLB with DJ at MLB would give us a very capable crew. The gap between Gold - DJ - Siler/Black and Gold - Willis - DJ is a hell of a lot smaller than the difference between Warren - Jenkins and Warren - McKinley/Veal. I don't even consider that debatable. That said, I'd be all for Willis in the first, I'd even trade our #70 to move up after him in the middle first, but there is no way weshould go up to the top 10 and give up that many picks along with that kind of contract to him given the other options out there.


Okoye...I've stated numerous times is a guy I'd love to have. I think he's better than Branch with more upside and can rush the passer. Thomas is nowhere near a top 10 pick...not even 1st round...he's a problem looking for a place to happen. We all know Johnson won't be there at 10. It's a possibility one of the three...Okoye, Adams or Anderson...slides to 10...stranger things have happened.

And getting to 10 costs a lot more than just #21 and #56. Also, Okoye is a project, he isn't making waves his first year in the league, probably not the first two or three years. Why trade up to the top ten for a guy who'll be league average while learning his position, then only two seasons away from walking when he finally reaches a legitimate top 10 player level? Not to mention he's a rather poor fit for Bates' DL scheme.

Adams and Anderson wouldn't be bad, but neither one is a Julius Peppers type. Anderson has the athletic ability but never proved it on the field, Adams is a speed rusher. Why give up our draft and top ten money for one of them when this draft is loaded with DE talent?

Every draft there's a later round pick who outperforms the top pick at his position over their careers. Its only more likely to happen in a DE class as deep as this one.


That's a dream allright. We don't even know if Wilson will ever play again. Right now there appears to be no interest in him around the league...so how is it we can suddenly trade him plus a 3rd for a guy you say is a huge difference maker? The writer who covers the team says they want a 1st rounder...early 2nd at worst...so if they don't get it...they can just keep him. Nobody's forcing them to trade Jenkins, including the player himself.

Word is right now the only offer they've gotten is a second day pick from NYG. Also, Wilson passed our physical along with one administered by a second party. The only place he's failed a physical is NYG where a half dozen other linebackers have done the same thing only to play a full season directly after. Don't give their doctors such credence over the majority opinion.

They could just keep him if they don't get what they want, but a legitimate MLB and a first day pick, or a 2nd rounder, would both likely prove enough to entice them. If not then so be it, but we'd be foolish to not even try.

The problem here footsteps is that you're just too wrapped up in how a player looks in spandex and if there is any chance of an injury you can blow out of proportion. What did you think about giving an early 2nd for Javon Walker, he'd had one good season and didn't even play almost at all in '05. That worked out pretty well.

Instead of looking at the reality of the situation, NFL history on how trades like this work and the impact a guy like Jenkins could have you'd instead rather do the same crap you've been using to try and drum up some fantasies of OL problems, with Lepsis clearly having no chance of being healthy and acting insulted that someone would even suggest that Erik Pears, an undrafted FA, could start in the league.

With the stock you put in draft pedigree I can only assume you're an NBA fan first and foremost, as it is the only sport where late rounders and undrafteds don't consistently become stars in their leagues. Go tell Tom Brady that his rings are invalid because he's a 6th rounder and doesn't have the draft pedigree to deserve them, or tell Albert Pujols that a 25th round pick clearly shouldn't be the greatest hitter in modern baseball history. Remind Shannon Sharpe that guys who wouldn't even make it in today's shortened draft have no chance at the hall of fame.

You simply don't get football, you just don't. Its a waste of time debating it with you.

[Beantown Bronco]

Carolina has alot of gaps to fill and if they can get thier hands on a franchise QB they would take Quinn before Patrick Willis so IF they get a shot at Quinn keep your eyes pealed on the Broncos on Draft day because the Panters might be willing to make a Trade if they gather extra picks.

Huh? Carolina just picked up David Carr and are paying him more than any other backup QB in the league. Why would they be looking to dump even more (high first round, no less) money into the QB position?

[Beantown Bronco]

Name the last player traded for a first round pick. It simply doesn't happen in today's NFL. First round picks are too valuable.

Deion Branch just one year ago...

I do agree with the rest of your post, though.

[c_lazy_r]

...Its a waste of time debating it with you.

This I agree with.

[TheChamp24]

Okay. One person doesn't want us to trade away picks for Jenkins, saying we need them to move up in the draft.
So instead of getting Jenkins and 3 quality prospects, we would most likely get 1 good prospect in that scenario because we would have to trade our 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks to move up to pick 10.
I don't like moving up in this draft. I also don't like trading down, its too risky IMO.

[c_lazy_r]

From his website...http://www.krisjenkins77.com/

Yea, sounds like a real jerk. ::)


"Most of the charitable things I have done has revolved around kids, because they are at a point in their lives where even the smallest input from people like me can influence their lives tremendously. I would really like to give back a little of what I received when I was young. It was a football player by the name of Rodney Holman who spoke to me when I was in middle school that made me sit back and evaluate my life. Things like that help.
I'm executing the "Tackling Life's Obstacles" campaign in order help maximize the ways in which I can help the less fortunate people in my community, and inspire kids in need of extra motivation. I don't play football just to play. I want to be the best. It's the same for me when it comes to giving back. I want my community projects to be the best and to help the most people possible. I plan on working as hard off the field as I do on the field to be a successful human being.
I hope to one day become NFL MVP and the MVP of my community. __________________________________________________ __________________________________
Instead of starting his own non-profit organization, Kris has established a community relations campaign called “Tackling Life’s Obstacles” that breaks down into three specific sections: Tackling Obstacles of Underprivileged Children; Tackling Obstacles of Parenthood; and Tackling Obstacles During the Holidays. By starting this community relations campaign, Kris will avoid spending unnecessary time and funds starting and maintaining a new non-profit organization, and help the great organizations already established that are in great need of support.

Kris has sponsored the following programs and made the following appearances as part of his "Tackling Life's Obstacles" campaign.
[B]Kris was the Grand Marshall of the 1-Mile Kids' Fun Run Line-Up at the Right Moves For Youth 2005 Twilight 5K Road Race & Walk which was held on May 12, 2005.

Kris played video games with the Boys Club of Charlotte at the Nascar Speedpark at Concord Mills on May 23, 2005.

Kris also helped present awards at the Right Moves For Youth End of the School Year Celebration on June 5, 2005.

On August 9th, Kris paid the way for 75 children from Right Moves For Youth to bus to Spartanburg to watch him practice at his Panther training camp. He treated them to a very nice catered lunch and had the defensive line come in and give autographs.

Kris is also providing 10 seats at every Panther home game during the 2005 season for kids from the Right Moves For Youth Organization.

Kris tore his anterior cruciate ligament in his right knee in the Panthers' season opener, which effectively ended his season before it began. The friday after, September 16, Kris spoke to the Beatties Ford Saints Pop Warner Football team, at the Hornets Nest Field in Charlotte, NC. He had given his word that he'd be there and didn't plan on backing away from his committment due to injury. He talked to the young men about the mark of being a champion and the importance of getting an education and good money management.

On September 23rd, Kris hosted an autograph signing for fans at BBQ Galore. The men from Fire Department 24 came by and gave demonstrations on their trucks! Kris hung out for almost two hours with fans and the firemen.

On October 15th, Kris made an appearance at Costo at 500 Tyvola Rd to meet and greet his fans. He signed autographs and posed for pictures for about an hour.

On October 25, Kris visited the young men at the Carolina Panthers' Youth Home Courage House. He spent almost two hours with the young men, talking about his life's experiences and enjoying delicious refreshments. Kris will be a special guest at the 5th Annual Courage House Awards Luncheon on November 8th, 2005.

On Friday, December 16 Kris hosted a Christmas cookout for 50-60 children and parents from the Ashley Park Community. The cookout was held at the Christ Resurrection Church located at 2001 West Morehead Street in Charlotte. It was a collaboration between Kris and Barbeques Galore, Culinary Chef John Henry and Captain Dedmon’s Station 24 firefighters."

[Barry Ramey]

The Broncos have to address the DE spot in this draft if for no other reason that Ekuban is a free agent and Lang might be one too, not sure one that one and who knows what will happen. Heck, they may need to take a couple and worry about a DT in next years draft since it appears to be very deep like RB and hope they can get Jenkins or Grady Jackson for cheap for now.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Good find. One of my biggest complaints with the Mane is that when folk don't like the way a player plays they think they need to make personal attacks on the player's character - and they don't know how much time and money those players give back to the community. And then there are others that think the Broncos should acquire every player who is a bad character in the community.

[footstepsfrom#27]

When Ekuban had nearly 70 tackles and 7 sacks, yeah, I do. He had a good year. Lang did pretty well despite being forced into a larger role (starter instead of rotation player) than he should've been in. Warren had a very good '05, then played poorly last year but took a pay cut in response to it. I'm more than happy to give him a shot to get right post-injuries for the '07 campaign.
Ekuban is the only one whose lived up to expectations and he only did so last year. He's average, though he did have a career year in 2006, but he's also 31 so we'll be needing to replace him soon with another free agent or scrap heap trade. DE's who average 5 sacks a year are really not that big a big deal...though I guess it seems that way if you're used to watching this pass rush.
Yeah, so? I don't think anyone is denying the potential injury risk with Jenkins, but as a guy in his mid/late 20's he has a lot more football ahead of him than McGlockton did when he joined us, at already over 30 years old. Its a horrible comparison, it was groundless of you to make it, so just get to the real point of your argument.
I made it because you made an issue of DT's going to pro bowls, as if we'd never traded for one before. McGlockton was 32...and healthier than Jenkins at 27 if you go by his durability.
Check our draft history while we're at it. Nothing we've done for over half a decade now has solved our DL issues.
Riiiight...:thumbsup: Maybe that's because we only draft D-line guys in the second day of the draft? Or maybe we should just learn how to draft better?
We can't make it into the top ten of this draft without giving up almost the entire first day. Its NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Your dream of us getting Gaines Adams or Joe Thomas is just that, a dream. Accept it and start thinking about what moves this team could make to actually get better instead of beating a dead horse.
Did you think we'd move up to 11 last year?
Jenkins is a year removed from both injuries, the ideal recovery period from an ACL by the way, and you won't find any 320+ pound DTs who've played a good amount of football who don't have some injuries. Jenkins proved his health last year with starting a full season.
Some who watched him say he wasn't the same player, but let's ignore that since we don't want to consider that possibility.
50 pounds overweight? He's a gap filling DT, there's no such thing as overweight as far as we're concerned as long as he can still reach his arms around his gut to tackle.
His coach seems to disagree. He's on the trading block for not showing up to off season workouts...but what does he know?
Rumored alcohol and depression problems. Has he ever been arrested for a DUI or public intoxication? Has he ever enrolled in therapy or openly admitted a depression problem?
Yes...he has. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8077502/
He spent all of the previous two off-seasons rehabbing injuries, can't blame the guy if he opts out of optional camps. Also, you know who else isn't attending optional workouts this spring? Al Wilson. When you're on the trading block why in hell would you show up and workout with a team looking to move you?
He wasn't on the trading block till he opted out of the "optional camps". Wilson, on the other hand...was.
We simply don't have the roster space for more so the excess will be getting cut.
Rookies are cheaper, hence vets will be cut if rookie perform, at least in many cases.
Just saying that until the Wilson bridge is officially burnt we shouldn't plan to blow our entire draft wad on getting his replacement, then we'll be paying said replacement just as much as we don't want to pay Wilson, with no proof he's even equal to an aging Wilson.
Right...let's never take anybody high in the draft who we might have to pay more since they might bust...good strategy! :notworthy
The gap between Gold - DJ - Siler/Black and Gold - Willis - DJ is a hell of a lot smaller than the difference between Warren - Jenkins and Warren - McKinley/Veal. I don't even consider that debatable.
How do know? We don't even know if those players make an NFL roster yet?
And getting to 10 costs a lot more than just #21 and #56. Also, Okoye is a project, he isn't making waves his first year in the league, probably not the first two or three years.
Speculation. I bet he's better than Branch.
Why trade up to the top ten for a guy who'll be league average while learning his position, then only two seasons away from walking when he finally reaches a legitimate top 10 player level? Not to mention he's a rather poor fit for Bates' DL scheme.
Maybe in 2-3 years Bates will be gone too...like the 3 predecessors who held his job in the last 10 years before him.
Adams and Anderson wouldn't be bad, but neither one is a Julius Peppers type. Anderson has the athletic ability but never proved it on the field...
He had 12 sacks and 20 TFL last year against SEC competition...sounds fine to me.
The problem here footsteps is that you're just too wrapped up in how a player looks in spandex and if there is any chance of an injury you can blow out of proportion. What did you think about giving an early 2nd for Javon Walker, he'd had one good season and didn't even play almost at all in '05. That worked out pretty well.
I was on board with it. I saw nothing other than the injury to suggest he was a major risk. He showed up for camp in spite of a contract dispute and he worked hard to get himself rehabbed...good pick up. His circumstances look considerably different than Jenkins'.
Instead of looking at the reality of the situation, NFL history on how trades like this work and the impact a guy like Jenkins could have you'd instead rather do the same crap you've been using to try and drum up some fantasies of OL problems, with Lepsis clearly having no chance of being healthy...
I never said that.
...and acting insulted that someone would even suggest that Erik Pears, an undrafted FA, could start in the league.
Or that.
With the stock you put in draft pedigree I can only assume you're an NBA fan first and foremost, as it is the only sport where late rounders and undrafteds don't consistently become stars in their leagues.
You'd be wrong.
Go tell Tom Brady that his rings are invalid because he's a 6th rounder and doesn't have the draft pedigree to deserve them, or tell Albert Pujols that a 25th round pick clearly shouldn't be the greatest hitter in modern baseball history. Remind Shannon Sharpe that guys who wouldn't even make it in today's shortened draft have no chance at the hall of fame.
Drama queen.
You simply don't get football, you just don't. Its a waste of time debating it with you.
Hilarious!

[footstepsfrom#27]

From his website...http://www.krisjenkins77.com/

Yea, sounds like a real jerk. ::)
Did someone say he was a jerk? I must have missed that...

[footstepsfrom#27]

Good find. One of my biggest complaints with the Mane is that when folk don't like the way a player plays they think they need to make personal attacks on the player's character - and they don't know how much time and money those players give back to the community.
His community ventures are admirable...I'm not sure what that has to do with the issues of weight, depression, alcohol use, questions about his health, or his desire to be a better player and get in shape to prove it.

[c_lazy_r]

Did someone say he was a jerk? I must have missed that...

Dude, you're killing me...You argue like my kids. For sheer sport and entertainment, I think. :hitself:

OK, OK I raise the white flag. You win.

Hopefully, our FO does the best thing for the team. :Broncos:

[mattob14]

We don't know if he has the same upside he once did. According to some people who apparently watch him on a regular basis he has not played like he once did after he signed his big contract, and his play fell off after the return from surgery according to some of those same individuals.

Even if he never performs at his 2003 level again (when he may have been the best DT in football), he's still a Pro Bowler who will change our defense. Besides, after sitting nearly two full seasons, I wouldn't expect him to come back at the same level last year. He should be much improved this season.

Did they do their homework on Big Daddy? No...he didn't want to even be here. How much "homework" would that have taken? Precious little.
And now he's gone and we have our pick back. This was a no-risk move that had the potential to net a solid rotational DT for a year or two. He didn't want to play here, so the trade is voided and everyone moves on. How does that show a lack of ability to bring in quality D-lineman?

Did we do our homework on Al before sending him off to New York to publicly flunk a physical in front of the entire NFL?
As others have said, team physicals are subjective in nature. The Giants have failed a number of players recently. I believe John Lynch failed a physical or two before joining Denver and he's done just fine.

If trades and FA acquisitions of D-linemen were how you win Superbowls, we'd have several more by now.
Actually, with a DL of Neil Smith, Alfred Williams, Mike Lodish, and Keith Traylor (all of whom were FA pick-ups), we won our only two SB's. The only draftee who contributed was Trevor Pryce, and he saw very limited action in the first Super Bowl run.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8077502/[/url] Forget his physical health...I'm not at all sure this guy is MENTALLY HEALTHY either. I don't find that disturbing at all. This is a guy who is a competitor and wanted to be on the field. Alcohol abuse can happen to anyone, but he recognized the problem and took steps to correct it. You can't hold that against him.

[azbroncfan]

Can someone summarize Footstepsfrom#--'s posts. Too much too read for what is pure speculation right now.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Can someone summarize Footstepsfrom#--'s posts. Too much too read for what is pure speculation right now.
Sure...

Kris Jenkins

1) ACL and shoulder injuries caused him to miss two years
2) Some Carolina fans/media think he's no longer a pro bowl player
3) Some reports suggested he was better before his big contract
4) Routinely strugles with weight, often out of shape, once balloned to 400
5) Got in coaches doghouse for refusing to show up for conditioning workouts
6) Carolina media think team wants a 1st rounder for him, a 2nd at least
7) Admits to alcohol problems in the last two years
8) Blamed his hatred of Warren Sapp for his problems with booze
9) Prior Bronco history with trading for D-linemen has been less than stellar
10) Might be worth a gamble, but fits the profile of a high risk player so we ought to do our homework better than we have in the past because draft picks actually do have value.

Radical huh?