Latest DE rankings from nfldraftscout.com/foxsports.com

[JCMElway]

Here's how they rank the top DEs. I was surprised that Carriker jumped over Anderson. Would you rank them differently? Does anyone have any other recent DE rankings to compare them?

1. Gaines Adams. Round 1
2. Adam Carriker. Round 1
3. Jamaal Anderson. Round 1
4. Jarvis Moss. Round 1-2
5. Ray McDonald. Round 1-2
6. Charles Johnson. Round 1-2
7. Anthony Spencer. Round 1-2
8. LaMarr Woodley. Round 1-2

[Steve Prefontaine]

Interesting. Here are Kiper's rankings updated April 2nd. Pretty similar except for Kiper having Spencer a little higher and not including McDonald.

Defensive Ends
1. Gaines Adams, Clemson
2. Jamaal Anderson, Arkansas*
3. Adam Carriker, Nebraska
4. Jarvis Moss, Florida*
5. Anthony Spencer, Purdue
5a. Charles Johnson, Georgia*
5b. LaMarr Woodley, Michigan
5c. Tim Crowder, Texas
5d. Jay Moore, Nebraska
5e. Victor Abiamiri, Notre Dame
5f. Quentin Moses, Georgia

[Steve Prefontaine]

Also, here are the rankings from NFL Draft countdown.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/rankings/de.html

<table style="border: 1px solid rgb(30, 104, 132);" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#1e6884"><td class="topbar2">#</td> <td class="topbar2">Name</td> <td class="topbar2">College</td> <td class="topbar2">Height</td> <td class="topbar2">Weight</td> <td class="topbar2">40-Time</td> </tr> <tr> <td> 1.</td> <td> Gaines Adams (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/gainesadams.html)</td> <td>Clemson</td> <td>6-4^3/4</td> <td>258</td> <td>4.64</td> </tr> <tr> <td> 2.</td> <td> Jamaal Anderson (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/jamaalanderson.html)</td> <td>Arkansas</td> <td>6-5^3/8</td> <td>288</td> <td>4.75</td> </tr> <tr> <td> 3.</td> <td> Adam Carriker (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/adamcarriker.html)</td> <td>Nebraska</td> <td>6-6</td> <td>296</td> <td>4.90</td> </tr> <tr> <td> 4.</td> <td> Jarvis Moss (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/jarvismoss.html)</td> <td>Florida</td> <td>6-6^1/2</td> <td>250</td> <td>4.70</td> </tr> <tr> <td> 5.</td> <td> Victor Abiamiri (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/victorabiamiri.html)</td> <td>Notre Dame</td> <td>6-4^1/4</td> <td>267</td> <td>4.80</td> </tr> <tr> <td> 6.</td> <td> Charles Johnson (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/charlesjohnson.html)</td> <td>Georgia</td> <td>6-2^1/4</td> <td>270</td> <td>4.87</td> </tr> <tr> <td> 7.</td> <td> Anthony Spencer (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/anthonyspencer.html)</td> <td>Purdue</td> <td>6-2^7/8</td> <td>261</td> <td>4.73</td> </tr> <tr> <td> 8.</td> <td> Tim Crowder (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/timcrowder.html)</td> <td>Texas</td> <td>6-3^5/8</td> <td>272</td> <td>4.69</td> </tr> <tr> <td> 9.</td> <td> Quentin Moses (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/quentinmoses.html)</td> <td>Georgia</td> <td>6-5^1/4</td> <td>261</td> <td>4.85</td> </tr> <tr> <td>10.</td> <td> LaMarr Woodley (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/lamarrwoodley.html)</td> <td>Michigan</td> <td>6-1^1/2</td> <td>266</td> <td>4.79</td></tr></tbody></table>

[JCMElway]

Do we know when NFL draft countdown updates their rankings? Foxsports was updated 8 days ago.

[Steve Prefontaine]

Do we know when NFL draft countdown updates their rankings? Foxsports was updated 8 days ago.
That's a good question. His mock was updated March 22nd, so maybe that's an indication.

[Rascal]

He doesn't update his rankings when he does his mock drafts.

[Dedhed]

I've been watching video like crazy, and the more I see of Anthony Spencer the more I like him. Very Explosive, and holds up fairly well against the run. The other guy I was impressed with was Mkristo Bruce. He seems to have that innate understanding, like Elvis, of how to get to the QB.

[Mediator12]

I've been watching video like crazy, and the more I see of Anthony Spencer the more I like him. Very Explosive, and holds up fairly well against the run. The other guy I was impressed with was Mkristo Bruce. He seems to have that innate understanding, like Elvis, of how to get to the QB.

Bruce was one of those dominant college players that has already peaked and may not have the Speed and agility to play against NFL OT's. His film is very impressive, but all the people I have talked to about him are scared he is another standout College guy with no room to grow.

That is also the reason Dan Bazuin is listed as a third rounder by most. His tape is awesome, even against Levi Brown so level of competition is not that relevant, but they fear he has no more upside to grow into a top level RDE at the NFL level. He already has good technique and feel for the pass rush, but may not be able to go any higher. Personally, I think he is going to be as effective as Jared Allen has become and would rank him in the second, not third, but Scouts want growth potential as an athlete in the top two rounds.

I, like you, have watched a lot of Spencer and the guy just makes plays all game long for Purdue. He is better against the run than his body type suggests and reminds me of Jason Taylor that way. Taylor is taller, but they are both fierce on every play and sometimes shed the block before the OL gets them to make plays behind the LOS. I like Spencer more than a lot of supposed pass rushers like Moses, Abiamiri, and Woodley.

[Mediator12]

Also, Ray McDonald is a DE/DT and not everyone on the draft boards agree where to put him and his overall value. Personally, I like him as an UT in cover two or one gap scheme. He plays the interior run very well, splits double teams much better than bigger DT's I have seen, and can bull rush or use his first step to collapse the pocket.

If he plays LDE, then he is more a third rounder as a complete DE. He lacks the edge speed to blow by OT's and his outside pass rush moves are very raw.

[-Slap-]

Most scouts have become slaves to the tape measure and the stopwatch. That's probably why the NFL has all these elite athletes, yet tackling has never been worse.

Last year, three of the top four leading rushers averaged over five yards a pop. In 1996, Barry Sanders was the only running back in the top ten in rushing who averaged over five yards a carry.

Today's NFL has better athletes, but inferior football players.

[Mediator12]

Most scouts have become slaves to the tape measure and the stopwatch. That's probably why the NFL has all these elite athletes, yet tackling has never been worse.

Last year, three of the top four leading rushers averaged over five yards a pop. In 1996, Barry Sanders was the only running back in the top ten in rushing who averaged over five yards a carry.

Today's NFL has better athletes, but inferior football players.

Profootball Weekly did an excellent article in their predraft guide about how the impasse between scouts and coaches is the primary reason draft picks are wasted. Scouts look for overall talent and potential, while Coaches want NFL ready players because they spend so much time gameplanning, watching film, and coaching scheme adjustments from game to game.

The good GM's are able to manage what the scouts evaluate and apply that information to their teams specific schemes, draft value of players to other teams needs, and coaching preferences.

As for tackling, that is a process problem IMHO. Players are not coached as much as they used to be due to NCAA restrictions and the poor fundamentals of all players coming into the league is the major result of that restriction. High school players are just as bad as they all look for the Sportscenter hit instead of relying on good technique and skills. When NFL defenders get into the league, they have way too many poor habits to correct and most NFL coaches shy away from contact in practice during the season to avoid injury to star players and to rest the veteran players bodies.

The result is poor fundamentals with no physical avenue to correct outside of limited TC contact where they players do not really tackle even when they are in pads anymore. I know Den was one of the only teams that did tackling drills during the week, but it really did not pay dividends last year did it?

[usedupbraids]

Here's how they rank the top DEs. I was surprised that Carriker jumped over Anderson. Would you rank them differently? Does anyone have any other recent DE rankings to compare them?

1. Gaines Adams. Round 1
2. Adam Carriker. Round 1
3. Jamaal Anderson. Round 1
4. Jarvis Moss. Round 1-2
5. Ray McDonald. Round 1-2
6. Charles Johnson. Round 1-2
7. Anthony Spencer. Round 1-2
8. LaMarr Woodley. Round 1-2

i dont want to be a dickhole but your wrong ;)

[Jens1893]

Anderson´s stock seems to be dropping ...

[Barry Ramey]

1. Gaines Adams. Round 1 - will be shocking if he doesn't make an immediate impact

2. Adam Carriker. Round 1 - it is being said he is moving up and even hear maybe top 10

3. Jamaal Anderson. Round 1 - it will be a surprise if not a top 10 pick

4. Jarvis Moss. Round 1-2 - if there at #21, Broncos just about have to take him, he's long and fast, they just don't have a DE like that

5. Ray McDonald. Round 1-2 - mixed feelings on him, I think a better DT, but lacks bulk, not sure if has the speed to play DE and be a pass rusher, might be more a run stuffing DE

6. Charles Johnson. Round 1-2 - I don't know about this guy, I think he could really be a bust, one year production guys in college are always a concern

7. Anthony Spencer. Round 1-2 - I still like him, but would rather trade down from #21 to get him, I like him much more than Johnson

8. LaMarr Woodley. Round 1-2 - I don't think this guy will be anything more than a backup and special teamer, unless just happens to be in the right system I suppose<!-- / message -->

[-Slap-]

If he slides, I would be willing to trade up to 12 for Jamaal Anderson.

Otherwise, I would be content to sit tight @ 21 (or trade down a few spots) for Charles Johnson.

[Kaylore]

Would you rank them differently?

I would! :)

1. Jamaal Anderson.
2. Gaines Adams.
3. Adam Carriker.
4. Jarvis Moss.
5. Charles Johnson.
6. Ray McDonald.
7. LaMarr Woodley.
8. Anthony Spencer.
9. Tim Crowder
10. Quentin Moses

[Jens1893]

Med, why is Anderson´s stock dropping and what do you think about him?

[Jens1893]

If he slides, I would be willing to trade up to 12 for Jamaal Anderson.

Otherwise, I would be content to sit tight @ 21 (or trade down a few spots) for Charles Johnson.

What about Alan Branch?

[Rascal]

If he slides, I would be willing to trade up to 12 for Jamaal Anderson.

Otherwise, I would be content to sit tight @ 21 (or trade down a few spots) for Charles Johnson.

I'd be willing to trade up to 12 for Anderson or Branch. If both are gone, then I agree and trade down a few spots to get an extra fourth rounder and take either Harrell or Johnson.

[Kaylore]

Anderson´s stock seems to be dropping ...

Good! :wiggle:

[-Slap-]

What about Alan Branch?

I would love him @ 21. I would move up for him, too, but I like Anderson more as a player. I think Anderson is the best defensive lineman in the draft, including Adams.

[Rascal]

I would love him @ 21. I would move up for him, too, but I like Anderson more as a player. I think Anderson is the best defensive lineman in the draft, including Adams.

Agreed. Adams seems one dimensional whereas Anderson is more of a complete DE.

[-Slap-]

Good! :wiggle:

People will come to their senses before draft day. I can't imagine Anderson not going in the top ten. Prototype triangle numbers. Versatile enough for any scheme. 13.5 sacks and 19.5 TFL last year. I don't know how anybody can possibly have a problem with that.

[Kaylore]

I would love him @ 21. I would move up for him, too, but I like Anderson more as a player. I think Anderson is the best defensive lineman in the draft, including Adams.

You got that right! Anderson wraps up the best and seems to be the most complete against the run and pass. I also think he's a bit more physical than Adams (if that's possible.)

Some of these other players, when you watch them tackle and get sacks, they're tackles that pro players are going to be able to break out of pretty easily. Guys like Anthony Spencer and Quentin Moses really like to do the "Jersey pull" tackle and just pull their shirt down and hope the player comes too, like they're picking food out of a garbage can. That stuff doesn't work in the pros.

[-Slap-]

Truthfully, I think we might be best served by just sitting tight @ 21 and grabbing Charles Johnson.

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/5065/312579ox4.jpg

[Kaylore]

People will come to their senses before draft day. I can't imagine Anderson not going in the top ten.

http://www.lunchensemble.com/cds/CD%20Covers/cvr_DareToDream.jpg

[Jens1893]

People will come to their senses before draft day. I can't imagine Anderson not going in the top ten. Prototype triangle numbers. Versatile enough for any scheme. 13.5 sacks and 19.5 TFL last year. I don't know how anybody can possibly have a problem with that.

At this time of the year scouts probably watch every play he was on the field for in College 10 times and just want to find something they don´t like ... it´s amazing to see that players can rise or drop without doing anything. I think the draft should be sooner as teams just have way too much time to overanalyze players and forget about the most important thing, what they did on the field last season. I want football players and not workout warriors and the workouts are taken way too seriously by many IMO.

[Kaylore]

Truthfully, I think we might be best served by just sitting tight @ 21 and grabbing Charles Johnson.

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/5065/312579ox4.jpg

The only players I'd be willing to trade up for are Anderson, Branch, Calvin Johnson, and Willis - and only then if we only had to give up two picks for one of those.

Charles Johnson is my first choice at 21 followed very closely by Jarvis Moss. Moss could be a Jason Taylor type player, but it's rare that skinny guys work out that way.

Johnson seems like the safest choice in terms of body type and he's just as physical. It would be also nice to give Champ another bulldog to play with. 8')

[Jens1893]

The only players I'd be willing to trade up for are Anderson, Branch, Calvin Johnson, and Willis - and only then if we only had to give up two picks for one of those.

Charles Johnson is my first choice at 21 followed very closely by Jarvis Moss. Moss could be a Jason Taylor type player, but it's rare that skinny guys work out that way.

Johnson seems like the safest choice in terms of body type and he's just as physical. It would be also nice to give Champ another bulldog to play with. 8')

Our pass rush needs help, no doubt, but I kinda want a DT rather than a DE. Having 2 stud DTs occupying blockers in the middle should free up Ekuban, Lang and Doom and I think our DEs should be able to get the job done then.

[-Slap-]

Every year someone gets overscouted. Unfortuately, it seems to happen to guys who return for their senior year more foten than not. Matt Leinart would have been the first pick in 2005, instead he went 10th in 2006. There was nothing in his play on the field to justify him dropping that far and the relative strength of the two drafts doesn't account for the discrepancy, either.

Sadly, the mentality among many football people now is they sort of wonder what's wrong with a guy if he goes back to school for his senior season. You won't find any who will go on the record and admit it, but many of them question a guy's competitive nature if he's not just champing at the bit to go compete at the next level. The priorities have changed so dramatically over the last two decades. Scouts used to question whether juniors had the maturity to make the jump, now they question a player's guts if he doesn't come out early.

[Barry Ramey]

The knock on Charles Johnson is takes snaps off and doesn't have really good speed for a shorter type of guy at DE. Plus I saw an article online a few weeks ago, II think it was online anyway, should have kept it, but it was about how many 1st round flops here have been the last 10 years or so with college players only having what was considered a very good college season or were basically not talked about until having that one breakout year their last college season. Johnson has had only good college season, so he fits that list. Will be be the exception? Maybe, but the list I saw was looooonnnnnnggggg! Teaching a guy how to tackle is easier than teaching a guy to play on every down or get faster.

[-Slap-]

Johnson seems like the safest choice in terms of body type and he's just as physical. It would be also nice to give Champ another bulldog to play with. 8')

That's where I'm coming from, too. Johnson might be a tad short, but he's got the NFL body and I think he'll be a solid player against the run and the pass for the next ten years.

[Jens1893]

That's where I'm coming from, too. Johnson might be a tad short, but he's got the NFL body and I think he'll be a solid player against the run and the pass for the next ten years.

Don´t you think we have enough "solid" guys in Lang, Doom and Ekuban?

[Barry Ramey]

Don´t you think we have enough "solid" guys in Lang, Doom and Ekuban?


Yes, good point. They need someone more than just solid, they need someone that can really get heat on the QB. That's why I like Moss and Spencer the most at DE and in the 1st round and I'm not as concerned how they are against the run right now. The point for the Broncos is to find a way to get more heat on the QB with the front four, not so much finding a solid guy since as you say, they already have those types. They need someone who can get to the QB and the others can come in and play the run if need be. If just lookign for a solid guy, then might as well draft someone later, not waste a top pick on someone who may not offer anything more than what they already have on the team.

[JCMElway]

Truthfully, I think we might be best served by just sitting tight @ 21 and grabbing Charles Johnson.

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/5065/312579ox4.jpg

Agreed. I would be very happy with Moss, Johnson, or Spencer there.

I would be overjoyed with Carriker or Branch.

[-Slap-]

Don´t you think we have enough "solid" guys in Lang, Doom and Ekuban?

I think I'm defining solid as good and you're defining solid as average.

Kenard and Ebenezer are closer to average journeymen than solid pros. This is evidenced by the fact that Denver is the third NFL stop for each guy. Doom figures to be a player who, although quite valuable, will always be better suited in a rotational role. I see Johnson as someone who will be well better than average against the run and better than average against the pass. I think his total skill set exceeds that of any DE on the roster.

[Jens1893]

I think I'm defining solid as good and you're defining solid as average.

Yep.

[Rascal]

You got that right! Anderson wraps up the best and seems to be the most complete against the run and pass. I also think he's a bit more physical than Adams (if that's possible.)

Some of these other players, when you watch them tackle and get sacks, they're tackles that pro players are going to be able to break out of pretty easily. Guys like Anthony Spencer and Quentin Moses really like to do the "Jersey pull" tackle and just pull their shirt down and hope the player comes too, like they're picking food out of a garbage can. That stuff doesn't work in the pros.

Honestly, a lot of the tackles I've seen Carriker make are the drag down type.

[Requiem]

There are plenty of DE in that #21-#40 area we could snatch, unless it's a top three guy, the grades on the next 4-7 are relatively the same.

TIM CROWDER GONNA BE A NUKKAFACE AWESOME DUDE>

[Kaylore]

Honestly, a lot of the tackles I've seen Carriker make are the drag down type.

You must be a husker fan or at least have watched some of his games, because I haven't. All my observations have come from highlight reels, senior bowl workouts and the combine, so I haven't watched film the way others have. Carriker, front what I've seen does a good job of wrapping up and then leveraging his weight against the ball carrier to force him to fall either back or sideways. Yahoo and the Browns site both some of the reels I've watched. He's explosive and really uses his hands well.