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Bob's your Information Minister
03-21-2009, 06:24 PM
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, Spiduhr. But at least they hide the booze in jail.

Spider
03-21-2009, 06:28 PM
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, Spiduhr. But at least they hide the booze in jail.

LOL what you dont make up in Bull**** , like done deal, you plagiarize ......... poor boob ,taking shortcuts and ending up nowhere .......

Harvitz81
03-22-2009, 04:46 PM
Wow, I just found this thread and thought that I should share my story for inspiration to those trying to lose some weight. My story:

Almost exactly one year ago I weighed in at the heaviest of my life. I'm 6'1" and weighed in at 275 lbs. About this same time my mother came down with breast cancer and said something to me that changed my life. She told me that if she could beat cancer, then I could shed a few pounds. It kind of hit me like a brick in the face. Shortly thereafter I bought an elliptical and starting using it about 20 minutes a day, 3 days a week in addition to starting a calorie restricted diet (~1800 to 2000 calories). The pounds came off slowly, but by August of last year I was at 245 lbs. At that point, and I still remember the day (August 25th), I decided to really go for it and see if I could get in shape again. I started using my elliptical everyday for 45-60 minutes, while keeping the calories in check. I also started to do some mild weight training daily (about 15-20 minutes alternating arms and legs every other day). The pounds started to melt off literally. I was losing on average 2-3 lbs a week until in early December I weighed in at 205 lbs. I hit a wall at this point and couldn't really lose anymore.

I'm kind of a night owl, and late one night I saw an infomercial for a 90 day training program, p90x. I was highly skeptical and had never bought anything off an infomercial, but this one seemed different. After reading reviews on the internet, I decided to go ahead and try it. The program has truly changed my life. Over the next 2 months I lost another 20 lbs to 185 lbs, while increasing my calorie intake to about 2500 calories a day! the program is that intense. I actually fit into a size 32 jeans. I've never fit into 32's since probably before puberty. At this point, I thought that I had lost a lot of muscle and while sticking with the program I started to increase my protein intake and overall calories. I probably eat 3-4k calories a day and have trouble putting on weight. I'm mainly looking to put muscle on now, and I never thought it would be so difficult. Over the past 2 months, I've probably put on 5 lbs. I never thought I'd reach the point where I actually wanted to gain weight! I also know that I'm still losing some body fat as I can see a noticeable difference in my midsection over the past 2 months despite gaining weight. I'm actually to the point where I am thinking of just putting my scale away and going by what I see in the mirror.

If anyone wants to truly change their life, buy and stick with p90x. I can easily say that I'm in the best shape of my life. After completing the program, I still stick with it daily and don't see myself stopping anytime soon.

Anyway, that is my story. Hopefully it inspires some people. It's all about commitment and once you get started it is easy to keep up with. Good luck to all!!

Circle Orange
03-22-2009, 07:05 PM
Spider, you're fatter than me. Congrats.

Wow, you must come from the land of TEENY, TINY people, where everyone is 5'6" and 83lbs...and those are the weightlifters! :rofl:

TheReverend
03-24-2009, 08:01 AM
Great recipe for anyone doing Keto or just trying to reduce carbs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73Yhz9J9Fb8&playnext_from=PL&feature=PlayList&p=A1D975D36D7B4A00&index=0

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="<A href="http://www.youtube.com/v/73Yhz9J9Fb8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param">http://www.youtube.com/v/73Yhz9J9Fb8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/73Yhz9J9Fb8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Jason in LA
03-25-2009, 12:50 AM
Debating your points? You don't have a single ****ing point! All you have is anecdotal evidence. Nothing showing what may be happening to your strength.

So here's some more anecdotal evidence for you, from me: You're a retard.

Not sure if anyone has ever told you, but muscle is a lot denser than fat, so it's harder to visually observe. So if you lose 9 lbs, and your basis for determining your "fat loss" is to take a look in the mirror, well you're retarded.

Next, my basal metabolic rate is 1900 calories a day, and I'm not much bigger than you.

Do you know what that means?

That means at 1600 calories a day, I'd still be losing weight in a ****ing coma.

Stick to what's "working for you", just don't claim you've done ANY research, because you haven't. That's clear.

I find it funny that you say that I haven't made a single point, when I made several points. You didn't bother to respond to most of them. Such as the anaerobic exercises that I do, which promotes muscle growth and strength, instead of doing the aerobic exercises that you suggested, which does shed body fat, but also sheds muscle at the same time. That's a scientific fact.

So you say that I have anecdotal evidence. Okay, so I'm performing exercises that promotes muscle growth and strength. That's what anaerobic exercises do. When I was lifting weights I was constantly adding weight and/or reps to each set that I was performing. Now that I have switched to body weight exercises I have added reps to each set. When I first started it was extremely hard at the reps that I was doing. After a couple weeks it wasn't so hard, so I increased the reps. It was extremely had again. A couple weeks later it wasn't so hard anymore, so I increased the reps again, which made it extremely hard again. I'd say that's a sign of increased strength. The one rep max isn't the end all be all indicator. Obviously I became stronger.

On the track my times have dropped across the board. When I first timed myself in the 300 meter dash I ran it in 45 seconds. The final 100 meters my legs were locking up on me and I struggled to finish. I felt weak. Now I'm running in the 39 second range. That final 100 meters my legs are a lot stronger and I'm finishing in a full sprint. Like I've said before, my times in the 100 and 200 meter dash have both dropped. That's because I'm stronger now.

The stronger you get the faster you'll be (given that you don't add a lot of weight). When I was at UCLA on the track team they had us lifting weights four times a week. All the workouts were to build strength. When I was there Ato Bolden and John Drummond were there training. Both of them won medals in the Olympics. Drummond, who did nothing but anaerobic workouts, similar to what I'm doing now, walked around looking like a light weight body builder. He was perfectly sculpted.

I do find it interesting that you told me that I should be doing distance running, but the guy who's before and after photo that you posted is on the HIIT program, which is based on running sprints. So which one is it? You are pumping up his gains, but then you are telling me that I should be doing something different? And you still haven't told me how running distance is supposed to help me compete in the 100 and 200 meter dashes.

So, lets go back over my results. I have performed anaerobic exercises, which builds muscle and strength, I've kept my protein intake within the recommended range for a person doing intense exercises. I've become stronger and faster while losing weight. I feel great. I'm never tired. But I'm doing something wrong? Can you please explain that.

I've done everything pretty much by the book and have gotten the desired results. That would be the physiological science book, and not that body building forum that you keep telling me to go to. My information comes from university professors (the professor of the physiological science class that I took was very well built, he practiced what he was teaching us). Those professors perform scientific studies on diet and exercise.

I've been on those body building forums. The problem with those forums is that it is filled with people like you. People who swear that they know everything and anybody else that is doing anything different is a retard that hasn't done any research. So should we all be on the Rev diet and workout plan? Is that the only one that works? Those forums have a ton of conflicting information. My information comes from a class that I took, and from bodybuilding publications, that has writers that get their information from physiological scientist or from profession bodybuilders and strength coaches. I've obviously done a lot of research. I have applied what I have learned through research and have gotten the desired results.

As for the amount of calories that I'm taking in, I didn't come up with 1,900 calories out of nowhere. I went to a number of websites before coming to that number for the amount of calories to maintain the weight that I was at. I am taking less than that amount to create a caloric deficit, which causes weight loss. To spare muscle I've kept my protein levels up and done anaerobic exercises. It's pretty easy to figure out. When I get to the desired body fat I will then increase my caloric intake. Actually, I'm going to eat more than my daily requirements so that I can add muscle. But I'm going to shift it to promote more muscle gain.

You need to get over yourself and stop thinking that anybody that has a different opinion than you hasn't done their research. If I hadn't done any research I wouldn't know what physiological science is (did you know what it was before I mentioned it?), I wouldn't understand the difference between anaerobic and aerobic exercises (did you know before I mentioned it?), I wouldn't know to keep my protein levels high, eat the right amount of the good fats, and decrease my carb intake while creating a caloric deficit to cause the body to lose weight while sparing muscle. I wouldn't be stronger, faster, and leaner right now.

Just face it, your diet and exercise plan isn't the only one that works... if yours works at all. You haven't told us about your results. My diet and workout program has produced results, even if you don't want to believe it.

TheReverend
03-25-2009, 03:18 PM
I find it funny that you say that I haven't made a single point, when I made several points. You didn't bother to respond to most of them. Such as the anaerobic exercises that I do, which promotes muscle growth and strength, instead of doing the aerobic exercises that you suggested, which does shed body fat, but also sheds muscle at the same time. That's a scientific fact.

Once again, you prove your complete inability to say anything factual and continue to be a ****ing moron.

The only way to build muscle on a calorie deficit is eating incredibly smart, and still only have the deficit at roughly sub 500 cals.

So you say that I have anecdotal evidence. Okay, so I'm performing exercises that promotes muscle growth and strength. That's what anaerobic exercises do. When I was lifting weights I was constantly adding weight and/or reps to each set that I was performing. Now that I have switched to body weight exercises I have added reps to each set. When I first started it was extremely hard at the reps that I was doing. After a couple weeks it wasn't so hard, so I increased the reps. It was extremely had again. A couple weeks later it wasn't so hard anymore, so I increased the reps again, which made it extremely hard again. I'd say that's a sign of increased strength. The one rep max isn't the end all be all indicator. Obviously I became stronger.

Then you must've been horrendously weak and could've make much better strides doing it properly.

On the track my times have dropped across the board. When I first timed myself in the 300 meter dash I ran it in 45 seconds. The final 100 meters my legs were locking up on me and I struggled to finish. I felt weak. Now I'm running in the 39 second range. That final 100 meters my legs are a lot stronger and I'm finishing in a full sprint. Like I've said before, my times in the 100 and 200 meter dash have both dropped. That's because I'm stronger now.

The stronger you get the faster you'll be (given that you don't add a lot of weight). When I was at UCLA on the track team they had us lifting weights four times a week. All the workouts were to build strength. When I was there Ato Bolden and John Drummond were there training. Both of them won medals in the Olympics. Drummond, who did nothing but anaerobic workouts, similar to what I'm doing now, walked around looking like a light weight body builder. He was perfectly sculpted.

I'll bet they approached their diets like idiots, too, huh?

I do find it interesting that you told me that I should be doing distance running, but the guy who's before and after photo that you posted is on the HIIT program, which is based on running sprints. So which one is it? You are pumping up his gains, but then you are telling me that I should be doing something different? And you still haven't told me how running distance is supposed to help me compete in the 100 and 200 meter dashes.

So let's add "Can't read" or maybe it's just "Can't Comprehend" on to your on-going list of mental deficiencies.

I SAID the guy was on the HIIT program. That does not apply to someone like you that's purposefully malnourishing yourself. In that situation, "LISS" becomes the most attractive avenue for success.

So, lets go back over my results. I have performed anaerobic exercises, which builds muscle and strength, I've kept my protein intake within the recommended range for a person doing intense exercises. I've become stronger and faster while losing weight. I feel great. I'm never tired. But I'm doing something wrong? Can you please explain that.

I've done everything pretty much by the book and have gotten the desired results. That would be the physiological science book, and not that body building forum that you keep telling me to go to. My information comes from university professors (the professor of the physiological science class that I took was very well built, he practiced what he was teaching us). Those professors perform scientific studies on diet and exercise.

I've been on those body building forums. The problem with those forums is that it is filled with people like you. People who swear that they know everything and anybody else that is doing anything different is a retard that hasn't done any research. So should we all be on the Rev diet and workout plan? Is that the only one that works? Those forums have a ton of conflicting information. My information comes from a class that I took, and from bodybuilding publications, that has writers that get their information from physiological scientist or from profession bodybuilders and strength coaches. I've obviously done a lot of research. I have applied what I have learned through research and have gotten the desired results.

As for the amount of calories that I'm taking in, I didn't come up with 1,900 calories out of nowhere. I went to a number of websites before coming to that number for the amount of calories to maintain the weight that I was at. I am taking less than that amount to create a caloric deficit, which causes weight loss. To spare muscle I've kept my protein levels up and done anaerobic exercises. It's pretty easy to figure out. When I get to the desired body fat I will then increase my caloric intake. Actually, I'm going to eat more than my daily requirements so that I can add muscle. But I'm going to shift it to promote more muscle gain.

You need to get over yourself and stop thinking that anybody that has a different opinion than you hasn't done their research. If I hadn't done any research I wouldn't know what physiological science is (did you know what it was before I mentioned it?), I wouldn't understand the difference between anaerobic and aerobic exercises (did you know before I mentioned it?), I wouldn't know to keep my protein levels high, eat the right amount of the good fats, and decrease my carb intake while creating a caloric deficit to cause the body to lose weight while sparing muscle. I wouldn't be stronger, faster, and leaner right now.

Just face it, your diet and exercise plan isn't the only one that works... if yours works at all. You haven't told us about your results. My diet and workout program has produced results, even if you don't want to believe it.

The rest is just a trip of complete drivel. You're doing everything by the book at 1500 calories, huh?

And those bodybuilding forums are full of people who think they know it all? You mean, people who have and ARE doing it, along with professional fitness instructors and nutritionists?

So, yeah, let's just face it. You don't know what the **** you're talking about.

If you want to ante up to the table, do so.

I'll let you name a date when you think you'll be ready for it, and we can post comparison photos to see who's in better shape. You're a photographer so you can even do little tricks with the lighting to try and make yourself look like less of a pile of ****.

Scrub.

Bob's your Information Minister
03-25-2009, 07:04 PM
Jesus, you guys taking roids?

TheReverend
03-25-2009, 07:06 PM
Jesus, you guys taking roids?

No. I've done designers but never the straight thing.

Jason in LA
03-25-2009, 10:31 PM
Rev, at this point there is no point in debating this with you. It's like you've put yourself on one side of the argument, and you don't want to acknowledge any other point of view. It doesn't matter what I say, or what I prove, you're just going to dismiss it because you are either a very narrow minded person, or you just want to win the argument so bad that you won't acknowledge any other point, and you'll just fall back on insults, which is usually an indicator that you don't have a good argument to begin with. You haven't given very many good counters to any of my points, but you'll disagree with all of them just for the sake of the argument. It's really silly. It's like if I said that roses are red, you'd call me a retard and say that I didn't do any research. It's just silly.

TheReverend
03-26-2009, 04:57 AM
Rev, at this point there is no point in debating this with you. It's like you've put yourself on one side of the argument, and you don't want to acknowledge any other point of view. It doesn't matter what I say, or what I prove, you're just going to dismiss it because you are either a very narrow minded person, or you just want to win the argument so bad that you won't acknowledge any other point, and you'll just fall back on insults, which is usually an indicator that you don't have a good argument to begin with. You haven't given very many good counters to any of my points, but you'll disagree with all of them just for the sake of the argument. It's really silly. It's like if I said that roses are red, you'd call me a retard and say that I didn't do any research. It's just silly.

No... it's because you haven't said anything legitimately accurate.

I started discussion with you trying to help. And you certainly don't have to do things my way... there's SEVERAL different ways that have scientifically proven to be extremely effective.

The calorie deficit you're putting yourself in is NOT one of them, and there's no way around that fact.

You're welcome to take my offer about picking a date at your leisure to see who's in better shape.

You won't. Because you have no confidence in what you do. Because you didn't do the research to find something effective. Period.

Jason in LA
03-26-2009, 11:40 AM
Bottom line is that I've given concepts that are based on scientific facts, and have gotten great results. Most of the points that I have made you have not even attempted to refute. Probably because they are points that you have never learned. You seem to be somebody who is uneducated, which is why you resort to insults and ignore most of my points. I don't think you have the intelligence to refute my points. Where did you graduate from college? I graduated from UCLA, and like I've stated before, I took physiological science. I learned concepts of proper diet and exercise. Those concepts have been proven, and they have worked for me.

Your help isn't needed, and some of your advice won't help me achieve my goals. Like I said, I will be competing in track meets running the 100 and 200, but yet you think it's best for me to do distance workouts. It's silly.

As for this challenge that you have thrown out, it doesn't prove the point. The argument was never about who had the better physique between the two of us. How does that solve anything? Seems that you couldn't refute my points, because you're not intelligent enough to do so, so you throw out a challenge. Kind of like two guys at a bar having a debate, and the guy who can't counter the other guy's points just wants to go outside and fight, like that's going to solve the argument. Wouldn't you find it a little silly for the two of us to post pictures of ourselves on this message board and have people compare the two? Well, seeing that you don't have a lot of intelligence, you would be up for something like that. And you've already set up your excuse if you lose when you said that I'm a photographer and I could make myself look good. So if I win the challenge, you'll just claim that I cheated. This whole thing is silly. If you were to win the challenge, that you mean that you have a great physique, because I certainly do, and it's getting better. I'm almost to where I want to be, and I've done that by using concepts that are proven by science. If you're in great shape, good for you. I'm not going to knock what ever has been working for you. Why do you feel the need to knock what's working for me, and insult me in the process?

So go ahead and cling on to your challenge. At this point you have to throw something like that out there because you aren't intelligent enough to refute my points. And I do find it funny that when we first started arguing you pretty much said that my diet and workout program wouldn't work. After I posted my results, you've changed to saying that I could have gotten better results following your advice. If I had followed your advice I wouldn't be as fast as I am now because I'd be doing distance workouts.

So I'll continue doing what I've been doing. I'm happy with the results so far. Good luck with what ever you're doing.

Meck77
03-28-2009, 06:44 AM
Great story Harvitz.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
03-30-2009, 01:20 PM
Wow, I just found this thread and thought that I should share my story for inspiration to those trying to lose some weight. My story:

Almost exactly one year ago I weighed in at the heaviest of my life. I'm 6'1" and weighed in at 275 lbs. About this same time my mother came down with breast cancer and said something to me that changed my life. She told me that if she could beat cancer, then I could shed a few pounds. It kind of hit me like a brick in the face. Shortly thereafter I bought an elliptical and starting using it about 20 minutes a day, 3 days a week in addition to starting a calorie restricted diet (~1800 to 2000 calories). The pounds came off slowly, but by August of last year I was at 245 lbs. At that point, and I still remember the day (August 25th), I decided to really go for it and see if I could get in shape again. I started using my elliptical everyday for 45-60 minutes, while keeping the calories in check. I also started to do some mild weight training daily (about 15-20 minutes alternating arms and legs every other day). The pounds started to melt off literally. I was losing on average 2-3 lbs a week until in early December I weighed in at 205 lbs. I hit a wall at this point and couldn't really lose anymore.

I'm kind of a night owl, and late one night I saw an infomercial for a 90 day training program, p90x. I was highly skeptical and had never bought anything off an infomercial, but this one seemed different. After reading reviews on the internet, I decided to go ahead and try it. The program has truly changed my life. Over the next 2 months I lost another 20 lbs to 185 lbs, while increasing my calorie intake to about 2500 calories a day! the program is that intense. I actually fit into a size 32 jeans. I've never fit into 32's since probably before puberty. At this point, I thought that I had lost a lot of muscle and while sticking with the program I started to increase my protein intake and overall calories. I probably eat 3-4k calories a day and have trouble putting on weight. I'm mainly looking to put muscle on now, and I never thought it would be so difficult. Over the past 2 months, I've probably put on 5 lbs. I never thought I'd reach the point where I actually wanted to gain weight! I also know that I'm still losing some body fat as I can see a noticeable difference in my midsection over the past 2 months despite gaining weight. I'm actually to the point where I am thinking of just putting my scale away and going by what I see in the mirror.

If anyone wants to truly change their life, buy and stick with p90x. I can easily say that I'm in the best shape of my life. After completing the program, I still stick with it daily and don't see myself stopping anytime soon.

Anyway, that is my story. Hopefully it inspires some people. It's all about commitment and once you get started it is easy to keep up with. Good luck to all!!

Awesome, awesome story, Harvitz! Congratulations on your success.

About two months ago, my old lady started really putting the pressure on me to get healthy, with her, and get all ripped up before the ceremony (we're planning on getting married next summer in Mexico).

Anyway, I did something that I wouldn't normally do, and that's join Nutrisystem. You know, the men's program that Marino, Golic and Berman all did? I've been doing it for about a month, eating the meals, eating the desserts, working out (lots of cardio) and just trying to make healthier choices (a LOT less booze). The weight has really started melting off, and it's been incredible to see. Honestly, I saw a ton of result when I was just eating the meals and everything and following the program, but not working out (I'd hurt my back moving furniture). My girlfriend noticed the difference immediately, and I look better than I have in probably 3 years.

We're (she and I) are going to start p90x after the MS150 bike ride that we're doing. 150 miles over two days in Colorado, raising money to benefit Multiple Sclerosis research. I wouldn't have even considered this to be a possibility before Nutrisystem, but I am a believer!

It's so easy to follow... a bit pricey, but worth it if you really need to take off some weight.

se7enm
03-31-2009, 08:34 AM
Harvitz great story!

And whats with all the rage on this thread?

Bob's your Information Minister
04-02-2009, 09:24 PM
Starting the Velocity Diet next week.

Florida_Bronco
04-02-2009, 11:01 PM
Starting the Velocity Diet next week.

Your diet choices are as flawed as the articles you write.

TheReverend
04-03-2009, 12:28 PM
Starting the Velocity Diet next week.

I finally just read up on it.

Reads to me like it's a liquid version of keto. Keep your discipline, especially for the first few days which should be rough and your head will probably be a little fuzzy, but your brain will actually make a switch and you'll feel better.

This should work really well if you stick to it with discipline Bob. After a month you'll probably be where you want to be.

Personal note: When I did/do keto, and it's a normal side effect of it, I barely slept. That's the worst part. Not sure if this diet will have a similar effect or if your body will either, but be prepared for that just in case.

DB-Freak
04-03-2009, 01:07 PM
Jason don't buy into the straight up HIIT or HIT methods.

Have some room for LSD in your routine.

If you are just looking to get jacked, LSD has to be in their somewhere. Bodybuilders always used LSD for cutting.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-03-2009, 02:02 PM
lol...are you just being silly or is there some documented evidence I can read on LSD and weight loss? LOL

DB-Freak
04-03-2009, 02:37 PM
lol...are you just being silly or is there some documented evidence I can read on LSD and weight loss? LOL

I don't know if you are taking this seriously, but obviously the LSD I'm talking about stands for something else.

JanaŽ
04-03-2009, 04:03 PM
I'm finally over the 100 pound weight loss mark. I have lost 102 pounds weight loss now. I have 47 left to go!

Florida_Bronco
04-03-2009, 04:24 PM
I finally just read up on it.

Reads to me like it's a liquid version of keto. Keep your discipline, especially for the first few days which should be rough and your head will probably be a little fuzzy, but your brain will actually make a switch and you'll feel better.

This should work really well if you stick to it with discipline Bob. After a month you'll probably be where you want to be.

Personal note: When I did/do keto, and it's a normal side effect of it, I barely slept. That's the worst part. Not sure if this diet will have a similar effect or if your body will either, but be prepared for that just in case.

I've seen alot of pictures of people who did that diet and they just got smaller. They weren't anymore defined or muscular than before.

I'd stick with a good high fat, high protein, low carb diet and focus on weights instead of cardio. Would give a good lean muscle base and the body would burn fat naturally instead of using carbs for fuel.

TheReverend
04-03-2009, 05:30 PM
lol...are you just being silly or is there some documented evidence I can read on LSD and weight loss? LOL

long slow distance... pretty much the LISS (low intensity steady state) I was talking about earlier.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-03-2009, 06:01 PM
Ha I thought we were talking about drugs.

Spider
04-04-2009, 07:52 AM
I'm finally over the 100 pound weight loss mark. I have lost 102 pounds weight loss now. I have 47 left to go!

Keep trucking girl ;D some of us here that know you are damn proud of you

Bob's your Information Minister
04-07-2009, 10:10 PM
Wow, I have to say, SURGE Recovery tastes ****ing awesome. Best post-workout drink ever.

DB-Freak
04-09-2009, 04:36 PM
Wow, I have to say, SURGE Recovery tastes ****ing awesome. Best post-workout drink ever.

I don't sound like an elitist, but someone like you shouldn't need to drink drinks like surge.

Aren't you just trying to lose weight? and Aren't you like an ultra novice?

Bob's your Information Minister
04-09-2009, 05:48 PM
I don't sound like an elitist, but someone like you shouldn't need to drink drinks like surge.

Aren't you just trying to lose weight? and Aren't you like an ultra novice?

Nope. Been weight training for a year.

Surge is part of my prescribed routine on the velocity diet.

BroncoBuff
04-09-2009, 08:20 PM
Wow, I have to say, SURGE Recovery tastes ****ing awesome. Best post-workout drink ever.

I always make my own ... milk, protein powder, blueberries or strawberries, ground flaxseed, wheat germ, even a couple Sweet'n'Low ;D

What does "Surge" have that makes it so great? How much does it cost? Is it low carb ... gotta have that. If there's sugar, I can't do it.


I have an f'ig inflamed bursa sac in my right shoulder ...svcks BIG time. Flys were about my favorite exercise, and now it's too painful :nono:

_________________
.http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3914/20090324mcdanielsp1.jpg

Bob's your Information Minister
04-09-2009, 10:29 PM
I always make my own ... milk, protein powder, blueberries or strawberries, ground flaxseed, wheat germ, even a couple Sweet'n'Low ;D

What does "Surge" have that makes it so great? How much does it cost? Is it low carb ... gotta have that. If there's sugar, I can't do it.


I have an f'ig inflamed bursa sac in my right shoulder ...svcks BIG time. Flys were about my favorite exercise, and now it's too painful :nono:

It's more of a meal replacement shake, it has sugar. But it's supposed to be taken after workouts.

It's cheaper than my Jay Robb protein powder so I might switch...

Florida_Bronco
04-09-2009, 10:30 PM
I don't sound like an elitist, but someone like you shouldn't need to drink drinks like surge.

Aren't you just trying to lose weight? and Aren't you like an ultra novice?

Yeah, he's a major novice. He's also on a crappy diet IMO.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-10-2009, 09:56 AM
V-Diet magic: (1 month)

http://www.t-nation.com/forum_images/2/9/29d28-side_b4after.jpg

Florida_Bronco
04-10-2009, 11:02 AM
Look at those pics Bobo! There is no change in muscle mass or definition, all they did was get thinner. That's why that diet sucks.

Taco John
04-10-2009, 11:05 AM
Lost 10 lbs. in one month counting calories. :)

Taco John
04-10-2009, 11:35 AM
Holy crap! The Velocity diet sounds crazy! One solid meal a week!? Personally, I think low carb diets are nuts. Carbs are brain food - especially starch carbs. I don't like the idea of eliminating brain food.

I do like the idea of losing a bunch of weight quickly, but the problem that I would have with that is that I've not changed any of my HABITS. That's why I prefer to count calories. I'm eating whatever the hell I want, but once I reach my daily calorie intake (currently 2100 calories daily), I'm done eating for the day. My goal is to lose 40 lbs by my son's 3rd birthday on during Labor Day weekend. That will put me right about 185.

TheReverend
04-10-2009, 12:42 PM
Holy crap! The Velocity diet sounds crazy! One solid meal a week!? Personally, I think low carb diets are nuts. Carbs are brain food - especially starch carbs. I don't like the idea of eliminating brain food.

I do like the idea of losing a bunch of weight quickly, but the problem that I would have with that is that I've not changed any of my HABITS. That's why I prefer to count calories. I'm eating whatever the hell I want, but once I reach my daily calorie intake (currently 2100 calories daily), I'm done eating for the day. My goal is to lose 40 lbs by my son's 3rd birthday on during Labor Day weekend. That will put me right about 185.

I do it (not the velocity diet, but cutting all carbs that don't come from fiber) about twice a year when I get serious on my cutting cycles.

In all honesty, it's terrible. I can barely sleep, but when I'm awake I feel like all I want to do is go to sleep and I'm foggy all the time, and when I finally do have the where-with-all to get passionate about something it's because I'm picking a fight with someone because I'm so damn cranky.

...but it works like a mother-****er. :wiggle:

Bob's your Information Minister
04-10-2009, 12:45 PM
Holy crap! The Velocity diet sounds crazy! One solid meal a week!? Personally, I think low carb diets are nuts. Carbs are brain food - especially starch carbs. I don't like the idea of eliminating brain food.


I feel fine after two days so far. Middle of the third day now and it's time for another shake.

It's NOT a starvation diet. On workout days I consume 2,000 calories.

Florida_Bronco
04-10-2009, 07:39 PM
Holy crap! The Velocity diet sounds crazy! One solid meal a week!? Personally, I think low carb diets are nuts. Carbs are brain food - especially starch carbs. I don't like the idea of eliminating brain food.

Sorry TJ, that's a myth. ;) Your body can produce the ATP needed even on a low carb diet if you do it right. The version of the diet that I'm on has made me feel much more alert and focused and those sentiments have been echoed by others who have gone on this diet as well...many of whom I know personally.

If you're interested, I can send you a PDF file explaining the diet. It gives a very in depth look on this carb = brain food myth and how your brain will have plenty of "food" on a low carb diet.

DB-Freak
04-10-2009, 11:10 PM
It's a fad diet where you'll crash eventually.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-10-2009, 11:41 PM
It's a fad diet where you'll crash eventually.

Sorry, no.

The results say otherwise.

You only crash if you lose willpower.

DB-Freak
04-10-2009, 11:45 PM
Sorry, no.

The results say otherwise.

You only crash if you lose willpower.

I wish you luck.

Florida_Bronco
04-11-2009, 12:03 AM
It's a fad diet where you'll crash eventually.

You're referring to the velocity diet crap Bobo is on, right?

BroncoBuff
04-11-2009, 12:57 PM
Personally, I think low carb diets are nuts. Carbs are brain food - especially starch carbs. I don't like the idea of eliminating brain food.
What's your sourcing on this? I've read tons about Atkins and South Beach, and I've never heard this "brain food" thing .... I do know I lost quite a lot in two separate 3-week/1-month Atkins spurts, and I don't recall brain "slowdowns" (there was some lethargy in week 1, but it passed).

People complain you can't drink beer on Atkins, but there are some 3-4 grams carb beers (Bud Light is 5), plus liquor is carb-free.


Your body can produce the ATP needed even on a low carb diet if you do it right. The version of the diet that I'm on has made me feel much more alert and focused and those sentiments have been echoed by others who have gone on this diet as well...many of whom I know personally.

If you're interested, I can send you a PDF file explaining the diet. It gives a very in depth look on this carb = brain food myth and how your brain will have plenty of "food" on a low carb diet.

I'll take that PDF please ;D

Florida_Bronco
04-11-2009, 01:07 PM
People complain you can't drink beer on Atkins, but there are some 3-4 grams carb beers (Bud Light is 5), plus liquor is carb-free.

That's the great thing about the diet I'm doing. You do low carb during the week but then on the weekends you can eat whatever you want basically, and of course you can have those beers.

I'll take that PDF please ;D

PM on it's way.

Los Broncos
04-11-2009, 04:25 PM
I weighed myself this morning right out off bed in boxers, 237 LBS.

Down almost 20 since January, now I realize I could of lost much more if I didn't half ass it a lot of the time.

But next week I'm back on it, wish me luck.

Florida_Bronco
04-11-2009, 11:47 PM
I weighed myself this morning right out off bed in boxers, 237 LBS.

Down almost 20 since January, now I realize I could of lost much more if I didn't half ass it a lot of the time.

But next week I'm back on it, wish me luck.

What kind of diet are you on?

Bob's your Information Minister
04-12-2009, 01:37 PM
OK. It's time for my V-Diet healthy solid meal of the week. (by the way, veins are popping out of my arms today...good feeling)

What should I have?

Your healthy solid meal doesn't have to be complex. There's no need to count calories; just choose "clean" foods. Here's a simple guideline:

Protein: lean steak, a couple of grilled chicken breasts, turkey breast, baked or grilled fish, etc.

Veggies: large pile of mostly green veggies, steamed broccoli, spinach, zucchini, squash, etc.

Starch: small amount of dry sweet potato, whole-wheat pasta, or brown rice

Salad: large salad with olive oil and vinegar dressing -- no cream dressings!

Dessert: small amount of fruit

Suggestions, please. Apparently I can't have white potatoes, so mashed potatoes are out.

I'm thinking of having pea soup instead of salad. Dunno if that would be OK.

TheReverend
04-12-2009, 01:44 PM
chicken stir fry with broccolli and rice. use extra virgin oils.

one of my favorites, at least.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-12-2009, 01:49 PM
use extra virgin oils.


You want me to use my own body oils?

TheReverend
04-12-2009, 03:17 PM
You want me to use my own body oils?

Not so sure that stand-up career will pan out for you, Clayton.

DB-Freak
04-13-2009, 03:51 AM
Not so sure that stand-up career will pan out for you, Clayton.

O snap...

the self deprecating humor did not work at all.

Los Broncos
04-13-2009, 11:24 AM
What kind of diet are you on?

Not sure what its called, I just cut out all the bad stuff, fast food, sweets and what not.

During the week low-carb, work out three days a week.

SouthStndJunkie
04-13-2009, 03:19 PM
Not sure what its called, I just cut out all the bad stuff, fast food, sweets and what not.

During the week low-carb, work out three days a week.

That's called the common sense diet.

Florida_Bronco
04-13-2009, 05:58 PM
Not sure what its called, I just cut out all the bad stuff, fast food, sweets and what not.

During the week low-carb, work out three days a week.

How low are you keeping your carbs, and what kind of workout are you doing?

Los Broncos
04-13-2009, 06:07 PM
That's called the common sense diet.

I know that, but I didn't start any kind of special diet or anything.

Just cut out most the bad and more good, get to the gym and sweat a little.

Los Broncos
04-13-2009, 06:09 PM
How low are you keeping your carbs, and what kind of workout are you doing?

M-F Banana and granola for breakfast.

Lunch: Large chicken salad, no croutons with fat free ranch.

Afternoon snack: Nuts and maybe a fruit.

Dinner: Subway or boneless skinless chicken with rice and a veggie.

Florida_Bronco
04-13-2009, 06:27 PM
M-F Banana and granola for breakfast.

Lunch: Large chicken salad, no croutons with fat free ranch.

Afternoon snack: Nuts and maybe a fruit.

Dinner: Subway or boneless skinless chicken with rice and a veggie.

Your carbs are still way too high then. You should keep it under 30g a day.

Los Broncos
04-13-2009, 06:30 PM
Your carbs are still way too high then. You should keep it under 30g a day.

What should I be eating? thanks

Florida_Bronco
04-13-2009, 07:07 PM
What should I be eating? thanks

If you want to go on a true low carb diet, you'll be eating mainly meats, eggs, cheese and non-starchy vegetables. Carbs should be under 30g a day for 10-12 days, then you can increase them a little bit to around 40-50g during the week with pretty much anything you want on the weekends.

If you're interested, PM your email address and I'll send you the same PDF file that I gave Buff. It's a long read but will tell you just about everything you need to know about a low carb diet.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-13-2009, 09:02 PM
What should I be eating? thanks

Sweet potatoes are a good substitute.

So is cauliflower for white potatoes.

You can make a great cauliflower tortilla with a little egg and cheese to hold it together.

Taco John
04-13-2009, 09:16 PM
Sorry TJ, that's a myth. ;) Your body can produce the ATP needed even on a low carb diet if you do it right. The version of the diet that I'm on has made me feel much more alert and focused and those sentiments have been echoed by others who have gone on this diet as well...many of whom I know personally.

If you're interested, I can send you a PDF file explaining the diet. It gives a very in depth look on this carb = brain food myth and how your brain will have plenty of "food" on a low carb diet.



Please do. Information is power.

Taco John
04-13-2009, 09:26 PM
What's your sourcing on this? I've read tons about Atkins and South Beach, and I've never heard this "brain food" thing .... I do know I lost quite a lot in two separate 3-week/1-month Atkins spurts, and I don't recall brain "slowdowns" (there was some lethargy in week 1, but it passed).




I don't have an immediate source on hand - I mean we both have Google. There's a hundred sources you can find that will tell you that carbohydrates are brain food - that the glucose that is broken down from carbs is the energy that fuels your brain. Carbs also contain serotonin which help regulate any number of things - which is why people on low carb diets are moody and have a hard time sleeping. That carbs are brainfood has been the prevailing science for years now (at least as I've always known it).

Ever since the low carb diet craze, there have been people trying to prove that this isn't the case. I'm skeptical of these claims, but I'm willing to give them a look. In many cases, they'll point to pre-agriculture man, who lived on a diet of mostly protein. Which is a fine thing to point out, except that the inverse observation is that man advanced like it was on rocket fuel once we made the advancement to agriculture (and an agriculture based diet high in carbohydrates).

Taco John
04-13-2009, 09:31 PM
For the novice who just wants to lose weight, this is the best weight loss product I've ever had. It's worked 100% of the time for me. The only time it doesn't work is when I'm not using it:

Biometric Diet Manager (http://www.bioweblogic.com/products/bwm20/)

It works with no diet program - it works in conjunction of your diet program. It just simply works.

And it's free.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-13-2009, 09:51 PM
which is why people on low carb diets are moody and have a hard time sleeping

This hasn't been true for me at all. And I'm taking HOT-ROX 3x a day, which gets me jacked as hell most of the time.

Florida_Bronco
04-13-2009, 10:08 PM
Please do. Information is power.

PM the email address you'd like me to send it to.

Los Broncos
04-13-2009, 10:28 PM
Thanks for the advice, will give it a try.

Florida_Bronco
04-13-2009, 11:16 PM
Email sent Iron Clady!

Where's Plummer???
04-14-2009, 01:15 PM
ill tell ya i lost 16 pounds in 4 weeks by cutting my calories in half and running every morning an mountain biking for 2 hours a day everyday... it works

Florida_Bronco
04-14-2009, 02:03 PM
ill tell ya i lost 16 pounds in 4 weeks by cutting my calories in half and running every morning an mountain biking for 2 hours a day everyday... it works

The problem with cutting calories and doing cardio is that you lose just as much (if not more) lean muscle in the process.

Where's Plummer???
04-14-2009, 02:23 PM
The problem with cutting calories and doing cardio is that you lose just as much (if not more) lean muscle in the process.

not if you keep your protien count up

Florida_Bronco
04-14-2009, 03:03 PM
not if you keep your protien count up

It's not that simple. When you're on that type of diet (low fat/cutting calories) the body burns your carbs for energy. Once those energy stores are gone, your body goes muscle protein, breaking it down to form glucose for fuel and preserving fat. That's catabolism and it's bad.

All that extra protein you take in is only going to preserve or replace the muscle you lost in the workout rather than increasing muscle size. The metabolic diet I'm on teaches your body to naturally burn fat like glucose and the protein you're taking in can be used to increase muscle size and strength.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-14-2009, 07:48 PM
Look what the V-Diet did to this girl's body. Incredible.

http://www.t-nation.com/forum_images/4/e/4e3f4-wk1_wk4_side.jpg

Florida_Bronco
04-14-2009, 10:39 PM
That should really help your girlish figure, Bobo.

Taco John
04-14-2009, 11:04 PM
Look what the V-Diet did to this girl's body. Incredible.

http://www.t-nation.com/forum_images/4/e/4e3f4-wk1_wk4_side.jpg

Post the picture of what she looks like 90 days later when she hasn't changed her eating habits and is no longer drinking shakes for every meal.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-14-2009, 11:06 PM
That's the thing about the V-Diet. It changes your eating habits.

But I will remember your post, Taco. I'm sure she will be around in 90 days and looking just as good.

TheReverend
04-15-2009, 05:52 AM
not if you keep your protien count up

Complete myth.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-15-2009, 08:05 AM
197.5

stoked

mr007
04-15-2009, 10:23 AM
Just my opinion, but low carb diets are pretty effin' silly... and by silly I actually mean retarded.

TheReverend
04-15-2009, 11:08 AM
Just my opinion, but low carb diets are pretty effin' silly... and by silly I actually mean retarded.

****, I even do them twice a year and I agree.

Florida_Bronco
04-15-2009, 12:05 PM
Just my opinion, but low carb diets are pretty effin' silly... and by silly I actually mean retarded.

And why do you feel this way? Keep in mind that I'm on one right now and feel great. A close friend of mine went on the diet before me and lost around 100lbs in a year while building a very muscular body. In that time, his blood sugar, cholesterol, triglyceride and blood pressure levels went from high (even dangerous) down to normal levels on this diet. He's still extremely healthy almost 8 full years after starting this diet and he remains on it almost year round.

mr007
04-15-2009, 12:35 PM
And why do you feel this way? Keep in mind that I'm on one right now and feel great. A close friend of mine went on the diet before me and lost around 100lbs in a year while building a very muscular body. In that time, his blood sugar, cholesterol, triglyceride and blood pressure levels went from high (even dangerous) down to normal levels on this diet. He's still extremely healthy almost 8 full years after starting this diet and he remains on it almost year round.

That's awesome that you feel great and definitely good for your friend. But I would argue your friend had a horrible diet to begin with if he lost 100 lbs in a year while building a "very muscular body."

The major problem with low-carb diets is the fact that it isn't lack of carbs that is making you lose weight. It's lack of calories and for most people, lack of proper nutrition. Low carb diets deplete your glycogen levels in your muscles and liver.

Without turning this into a huge medical debate, lack of carbs do not promote healthy muscle growth. Much of the initial weight loss is actually due to loss of water weight (due to dehydration), and unhealthy muscle tissue loss as your body isn't getting the amount of calories it spends.

The results your friend has achieved (blood sugar, triglyceride level, etc) going down are the result of weight LOSS, not because he's on a low-carb diet.

A proper diet consits of healthy carbohydrates that supply you with the fiber and antioxidants that low carb diets simply can't provide. Add in to the fact that to maintain a "healthy looking" (notice I said healthy looking and not healthy) body, you must consume an enormous amount of fats to keep up the calorie levels that you must burn to have a physically appealing appearance.

The effects you get from a low-carb diet can be mimicked by simply eating healthy. You may not lose as much weight as fast, but you will get there, and you'll be able to maintain that weight while also having a healthy metabolism and overall well-being and energy. I don't see any way that it's possible with a low-carb diet where your body is basically in starvation mode.

The only time I would ever advocate a low-carb diet is if you're attempting to get completely shredded for a fitness competition and even then I would not be on it more than 1-2 weeks.

mr007
04-15-2009, 12:55 PM
****, I even do them twice a year and I agree.

and I'd be willing to bet a lot of money it's not for health reasons!

Florida_Bronco
04-15-2009, 01:35 PM
That's awesome that you feel great and definitely good for your friend. But I would argue your friend had a horrible diet to begin with if he lost 100 lbs in a year while building a "very muscular body." I've never discussed his previous diet with him too much, but I do know he had two major knee injuries and that resulted in him gaining alot of weight.

The major problem with low-carb diets is the fact that it isn't lack of carbs that is making you lose weight. No, the lack of carbs trains your body to burn fat for fuel. A low carb diet, if done properly, puts your body into a phase shift from a fat producing/storing machine to a fat burning machine.

It's lack of calories The variation of the diet I'm on does not significantly reduce your calorie intake, and during the first 10-12 days you don't even worry about the calories.

and for most people, lack of proper nutrition. As with most low carb diets, meat, fish, most veggies and dairy products are what you eat mostly. I don't see any problem with the nutrition as you shift more towards lean meats after 12 days and your Omega 3 intake is significantly increased.

Low carb diets deplete your glycogen levels in your muscles and liver. I think you got this backwards. In that PDF I just sent TJ, QuietTiger and Iron Clady, there is an entire section talking about how the high fat/low carb diet preserves glycogen levels over a more conventional high carb/low fat diet. Also, you have the weekends where you can eat pretty much anything you want to help replenish those glycogen levels.

Without turning this into a huge medical debate, lack of carbs do not promote healthy muscle growth. How do you figure that? The friend I mentioned before has 20" biceps and bench pressed just under 500lbs at his peak, while on this diet of course. Also, the doctor who designed this was a world champion body builder and power lifter. I seriously doubt that could accomplish those feats on a diet that is not promoting healthy muscle growth.

Much of the initial weight loss is actually due to loss of water weight (due to dehydration) That's damn near impossible with the amounts of water you consume on this diet. There is no dehydration taking place.

and unhealthy muscle tissue loss as your body isn't getting the amount of calories it spends.That is what happens on a diet where you simply create a calorie deficit, not what happens on a high fat/low carb diet. One of the most basic principles of the low carb diets is stopping your body from burning up your muscle to use as fuel.

The results your friend has achieved (blood sugar, triglyceride level, etc) going down are the result of weight LOSS, not because he's on a low-carb diet. The results come from both the diet and the simple process of weight loss. Obviously if you lose weight, that only will make you healthy. However, the diet alone is going to drop blood sugar levels because you aren't taking in those unhealthy sugary foods or lots of carbs and triglycerides are naturally burned off for fuel.

A proper diet consits of healthy carbohydrates that supply you with the fiber and antioxidants that low carb diets simply can't provide. fibers, antioxidants and vitamins/minerals can be taken through supplements while on the low carb diet. Fiber is essential on this diet.

Add in to the fact that to maintain a "healthy looking" (notice I said healthy looking and not healthy) body, you must consume an enormous amount of fats to keep up the calorie levels that you must burn to have a physically appealing appearance. If done properly you will be taking in the healthy, unsaturated fats. The "bad" saturated and trans fats will be kept to a minimum. Again, in that PDF I sent out, there is a whole section dedicated to the understanding of the differences between the two.

The effects you get from a low-carb diet can be mimicked by simply eating healthy. You may not lose as much weight as fast, but you will get there How? Simply consuming the high amounts of carbs so prevalent today will prevent you body from going into the fat-burning phase shift. There are really only two ways to lose weight. You create a calorie deficit and burn more calories than you take in (i.e. the typical low fat diet) or you create an environment where you body burns fat for fuel, which is what you accomplish on the high fat/low carb diet.

and you'll be able to maintain that weight while also having a healthy metabolism and overall well-being and energy. I don't see any way that it's possible with a low-carb diet where your body is basically in starvation mode. Again, remember that friend of mine? The one with 20 inch biceps and bench pressed nearly 500lbs? He lost that weight almost 8 years ago and stays on this diet nearly year round. He's also almost 40 years old and extremely healthy (he gets regular physicals).

And this diet is most certainly NOT a starvation diet. In fact, you're eating every 2-3 hours with regular breakfast, lunch and dinners.

TheReverend
04-15-2009, 02:00 PM
and I'd be willing to bet a lot of money it's not for health reasons!

Sheer vanity

Nailed it here:

The only time I would ever advocate a low-carb diet is if you're attempting to get completely shredded for a fitness competition and even then I would not be on it more than 1-2 weeks.

2 weeks of a full keto state without any carb up days. Not for fitness competitions, but to rush shedding any extra weight.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-15-2009, 03:08 PM
I've lost more weight faster on low-carb diets than at any other time during my 13-month Bodyssey.

And every pound of it has stayed off.

For the record I'm on my third variation now. I did the GM diet, the fat flush diet, and now the V-Diet. They have all been great "boosts."

Bob's your Information Minister
04-15-2009, 03:11 PM
In fact, I may give this another run after my V-Diet is over. The foods on this are going to be like a banquet after a month of protein shakes, supplements and 4 solid meals.


Day One All fruits except bananas. Your first day will consist of all the fruits you want. It is strongly suggested that you consume lots of melons the first day. Especially watermelon and a loupe. If you limit your fruit consumption to melons, your chances of losing three lbs. on first day are very good.

<!--msthemelist--><table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> </table><!--mstheme--> <!--mstheme--><!--msthemelist-->Day Two All vegetables. You are encouraged to eat until you are stuffed with all the raw or cooked vegetables of your choice. There is no limit on the amount or type. For your complex carbohydrate, you will start day two with a large baked potato for breakfast. You may top the potato with one pat of butter.

Day Three A mixture of fruits and vegetables of your choice. Any amount, any quantity. No bananas yet. No potatoes today.

Day Four Bananas and milk. Today you will eat as many as eight bananas and drink three glasses of milk. This will be combined with the special soup which may be eaten in limited quantities.

Day Five Today is feast day. You will eat beef and tomatoes. Eat two 10 oz. portions of lean beef. Hamburger is OK. Combine this with six whole tomatoes. On day five you must increase your water intake by one quart. This is to cleanse your system of the uric acid you will be producing.

Day Six Beef and vegetables. Today you may eat an unlimited amount of beef and vegetables. Eat to your hearts content.

Day Seven Today your food intake will consist of brown rice, fruit juices and all the vegetables you care to consume.

mr007
04-15-2009, 04:15 PM
My comments in red



No, the lack of carbs trains your body to burn fat for fuel. A low carb diet, if done properly, puts your body into a phase shift from a fat producing/storing machine to a fat burning machine.

The same can be done at a lower risk using proper nutrition.

The variation of the diet I'm on does not significantly reduce your calorie intake, and during the first 10-12 days you don't even worry about the calories.

I have a problem advocating any diet that says don't even worry about calories. I'm more worried about getting enough calories with a low-carb diet.

As with most low carb diets, meat, fish, most veggies and dairy products are what you eat mostly. I don't see any problem with the nutrition as you shift more towards lean meats after 12 days and your Omega 3 intake is significantly increased.

Even with the increase in Omega 3's I find it difficult to believe you can achieve 2500+ healthy calories with that type of diet.

I think you got this backwards. In that PDF

I'll stop your quote right there. I don't care about some PDF that is a sellers guide for a low-carb diet.

How do you figure that? The friend I mentioned before has 20" biceps and bench pressed just under 500lbs at his peak, while on this diet of course.

Steroids are a hell of a thing.....

That is what happens on a diet where you simply create a calorie deficit, not what happens on a high fat/low carb diet. One of the most basic principles of the low carb diets is stopping your body from burning up your muscle to use as fuel.

The burning of muscles and loss of weight from lack of water in your body are precisely what happens with a high fat/low carb diet. Also, caloric deficits are not what burns fat.

The results come from both the diet and the simple process of weight loss. Obviously if you lose weight, that only will make you healthy. However, the diet alone is going to drop blood sugar levels because you aren't taking in those unhealthy sugary foods or lots of carbs and triglycerides are naturally burned off for fuel.

What do lots of carbs have to do with being unhealthy?

fibers, antioxidants and vitamins/minerals can be taken through supplements while on the low carb diet. Fiber is essential on this diet.

I'm all for supplements. But supplements should be used to compliment a naturally healthy diet.

If done properly you will be taking in the healthy, unsaturated fats. The "bad" saturated and trans fats will be kept to a minimum. Again, in that PDF I sent out, there is a whole section dedicated to the understanding of the differences between the two.

this is not different than a healthy diet with plenty of carbs. And again, where do you get all the extra calories required of an athlete from?

How? Simply consuming the high amounts of carbs so prevalent today will prevent you body from going into the fat-burning phase shift.

You are confusing high amounts of carbs being "so prevalent today" with the high amounts of carbs that are natural to a healthy diet.

There are really only two ways to lose weight. You create a calorie deficit and burn more calories than you take in (i.e. the typical low fat diet) or you create an environment where you body burns fat for fuel, which is what you accomplish on the high fat/low carb diet.

That statement is ludicrous. You burn fat for fuel performing anaerobic exercise. High fat/low carb diets do not assist with this type of exercise as your primary stores of energy are carbs.

Again, remember that friend of mine? The one with 20 inch biceps and bench pressed nearly 500lbs? He lost that weight almost 8 years ago and stays on this diet nearly year round. He's also almost 40 years old and extremely healthy (he gets regular physicals).

I'd love to see your friends metabolic panel (they don't provide these in physicals). It seems we are both pretty set in what we believe. My beliefs are based on multiple medical sources as well as personal experience. Also, I am 6% body fat and have been for the past 3 years.

TheReverend
04-15-2009, 04:15 PM
Anyone see Watchmen? Inverting the colors and I look just Dr Manhattan, lol

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9691/drmanhattan.jpg

Bob's your Information Minister
04-15-2009, 05:20 PM
I'd have to see your dingus to judge.

TheReverend
04-15-2009, 05:41 PM
Nice try, Clayton.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-15-2009, 05:46 PM
Nice try, Clayton.

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2317/richardsimmons21.gif (http://img17.imageshack.us/my.php?image=richardsimmons21.gif)

Florida_Bronco
04-15-2009, 06:27 PM
The same can be done at a lower risk using proper nutrition. Not as efficiently and quickly.

I have a problem advocating any diet that says don't even worry about calories. I'm more worried about getting enough calories with a low-carb diet. You're only not worrying about calories for the first 10-12 days. After that you do pay some attention to it.

Even with the increase in Omega 3's I find it difficult to believe you can achieve 2500+ healthy calories with that type of diet. Believe it.

I'll stop your quote right there. I don't care about some PDF that is a sellers guide for a low-carb diet.

So you don't care about a PDF written by a doctor who holds an honors degree in biological science along with his medical degree and was a world champion body builder and power lifter?

Seems to me this guy just might know a little bit about what he's talking about.

Steroids are a hell of a thing... So let me get this straight. You're accusing my friend of using steroids? Trust me, you really don't want to go down that road as I know my friend well enough to say with absolute confidence that is not the case.

Oh, and the funny thing about this is, if you read the background of the diet, is that it came out right around the time the dangers of anabolic steroids. Dr. Di Pasquale was brought on by both the World Wrestling Federation and the World Bodybuilding Federation to provide a viable alternative to the anabolic steroids...hence the diet/books that resulted.

So yeah, throwing the steroid accusation at a system meant to replace them is kinda silly, don't you think?

What do lots of carbs have to do with being unhealthy? Carbs alone are not unhealthy. It's the body being adapted to burn carbs for energy while storing body fat that is unhealthy.

I'm all for supplements. But supplements should be used to compliment a naturally healthy diet. Then what is your issue with this diet? The only supplements needed are whey protein, fiber, a typical multivitamin and some fish and flax seed oil.

this is not different than a healthy diet with plenty of carbs. Sure it is, and it's very simple. Taking in high amounts of carbs does not allow your body to go into the fat burning phase shift.

And again, where do you get all the extra calories required of an athlete from? During the fat loss phase of the diet you have all the energy you need in stored up body fat. Once you've reached your optimum weight, then you can increase carbs/calories as needed for any athletics. This diet does include a "bulking phase" for those who wish to use it.

How? Simply consuming the high amounts of carbs so prevalent today will prevent you body from going into the fat-burning phase shift.

You are confusing high amounts of carbs being "so prevalent today" with the high amounts of carbs that are natural to a healthy diet.

That statement is ludicrous. You burn fat for fuel performing anaerobic exercise. High fat/low carb diets do not assist with this type of exercise as your primary stores of energy are carbs. No, it's not ludicrous. A normal person's body is going to look to glucose and carbs as it's first sources of energy, and once it finally gets to burning fat, you're burning muscle off too and the body is not nearly as efficient burning off the fat as it should be.

That's the whole point of this diet. Teaching your body to burn fat as it's primary source of fuel and doing it faster and safer than other diets and maintaining lean muscle.

I'd love to see your friends metabolic panel (they don't provide these in physicals). I'll have to ask him if he's ever had that done. In the meantime, what would it be looking for that would be a cause for concern?

It seems we are both pretty set in what we believe. My beliefs are based on multiple medical sources As are mine. As I mentioned, the doctor who designed this diet is world class athlete, licensed physician and overall very qualified.

as well as personal experience. Again, same here. I've seen the results my good friends have had on this diet as well as the results (or lack of) some have had on different, more conventional diets. I'm new to the diet of course, but feeling good so far and it's working just as well as it did for my friends.

Also, I am 6% body fat and have been for the past 3 years. Very impressive, and congratulations...but I must ask, where were you at when you first started?

Taco John
04-15-2009, 09:40 PM
I don't have any doubts that low carbohydrate diets work to speed up fat burning. My doubts are in their long term affects on the brain over prolonged use of them.

I may consider a V-diet cycle at some time, but not until I'm sufficiently satisfied that I know how to eat properly, can cycle on, and when I cycle off have a soft and healthy landing.

Florida_Bronco
04-15-2009, 09:56 PM
I don't have any doubts that low carbohydrate diets work to speed up fat burning. My doubts are in their long term affects on the brain over prolonged use of them.

I may consider a V-diet cycle at some time, but not until I'm sufficiently satisfied that I know how to eat properly, can cycle on, and when I cycle off have a soft and healthy landing.

In that PDF I sent you, read Chapter Two, section "The Metabolic Advantage." That very first paragraph there explains how adenosine triphospate (aka "brain food") can still be produced on a low carb diet.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-15-2009, 10:42 PM
The V-Diet includes a 2-week transition period.

I'm glad you're considering it. Do your research here. Lots of GREAT examples and the guy who invented it dispenses free advice by the truckload.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_bodybuilding_velocity?p ageNo=1&s=forumsNavTop

mr007
04-15-2009, 11:22 PM
In that PDF I sent you, read Chapter Two, section "The Metabolic Advantage." That very first paragraph there explains how adenosine triphospate (aka "brain food") can still be produced on a low carb diet.

Ok Florida, humor me, I'd like to take a look at this PDF. Maybe it's some weird version of a low-carb diet I haven't seen. The ones I've seen are nonsense.

I was around 25% body fat when I first started working out, which was shocking to me because I thought I was in decent shape. I didn't get to 6% until I began digging deep into nutrition and effects of different types of diet on the body. The only diet I've been on that has allowed me to keep my energy levels, still be an athlete, and maintain the physique I've come to love is one that has a healthy mix of whole grains, lean meats, healthy fatty meats (salmon/etc), and healthy fats (nuts, avocados, etc).

I'll definitely be open about reading the PDF your friend put together. I agree with you that you won't lose as much weight as fast as with the low-carb diet. But my argument would be that the weight you're losing from the low-carb diet has more consequences associated with it. Send your doc my way and I'll take a look at it and let you know what I think and be as unbiased as possible.

mr007
04-16-2009, 03:01 PM
Thanks for the doc, the guy actually seems pretty damned intelligent on what he's talking about and doesn't go for a one glove fits all solution. Definitely different from the low-carb diets I've seen and I'm gonna give it a try and report results here.

Florida_Bronco
04-16-2009, 06:26 PM
Thanks for the doc, the guy actually seems pretty damned intelligent on what he's talking about and doesn't go for a one glove fits all solution. Definitely different from the low-carb diets I've seen and I'm gonna give it a try and report results here.

Glad to hear it. If nothing else, you deserve props for keeping an open mind on it. :strong:

I showed this to Buff and TJ too. It appears that Dr. Pasquale has some kind of relationship to the Broncos and/or Rich Tuten.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/md3.htm

TheReverend
04-16-2009, 06:33 PM
I'll be closely watching the reviews from everyone. It'll be 3-4 weeks before I can try it myself.

TheReverend
04-20-2009, 09:13 AM
How are people's diets going?

Bob's your Information Minister
04-20-2009, 03:32 PM
How are people's diets going?

The V-Diet is going well. I haven't succumbed to temptation once.

But damn I am tempted! I really look forward to my weekly healthy meal. Chicken kabobs mmmmmmmmmm.

TheReverend
04-20-2009, 03:52 PM
The V-Diet is going well. I haven't succumbed to temptation once.

But damn I am tempted! I really look forward to my weekly healthy meal. Chicken kabobs mmmmmmmmmm.

Good. Stay focused on your goals.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-20-2009, 03:54 PM
Good. Stay focused on your goals.

Hell I bought a pair of 33's today. I already met one goal. Now I just want to look good naked.

TheReverend
04-20-2009, 04:35 PM
Hell I bought a pair of 33's today. I already met one goal. Now I just want to look good naked.

Glue a picture of my face onto yours. I give you permission.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-20-2009, 04:47 PM
Chicks seem to dig my face now that all the blubber melted off. Seriously.

TheReverend
04-20-2009, 04:59 PM
Chicks seem to dig my face now that all the blubber melted off. Seriously.

Lol. Finish it up then.

What kind of cardio are you doing?

Bob's your Information Minister
04-20-2009, 05:06 PM
Lol. Finish it up then.

What kind of cardio are you doing?

The V-Diet is strictly NEPA (non-exercise physical activity) walks and whatever heart rate uppage you get from lifting (3x a week). I go for a 30-60 minute walk a day at a brisk pace. Anything more and you risk cannibalizing the muscle you're trying to preserve/build.

The break from running has been nice but I'm looking forward to getting back to it after it's over. It's the best way to burn fat.

SouthStndJunkie
04-20-2009, 05:17 PM
Props on losing all that weight and changing your lifestlye, Bob.

You should be proud of yourself.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-20-2009, 05:25 PM
Thanks. What's amazing is the Orange Mane provided a ton of motivation. It sounds silly but all the people telling me how fat I was really got to me. Whatever works.

TheReverend
04-21-2009, 05:04 AM
Thanks. What's amazing is the Orange Mane provided a ton of motivation. It sounds silly but all the people telling me how fat I was really got to me. Whatever works.

You're a disgusting, fat pig.

TheReverend
04-21-2009, 05:05 AM
You're welcome.

scorpio
04-22-2009, 08:51 PM
The V-Diet is strictly NEPA (non-exercise physical activity) walks and whatever heart rate uppage you get from lifting (3x a week). I go for a 30-60 minute walk a day at a brisk pace. Anything more and you risk cannibalizing the muscle you're trying to preserve/build.

The break from running has been nice but I'm looking forward to getting back to it after it's over. It's the best way to burn fat.

To this day I can't believe anybody would follow a diet developed by Chris Shugart.

Well, a protein-sparing modified fast co-opted by Chris Shugart and whored out by Biotest to sell their supplements.

But I digress. Good on you for sticking to it.


EDIT: I'm not saying a protein-sparing modified fast doesn't work. I know it does. But all the "IF YOU DON'T USE BIOTEST PRODUCTS YOU WILL END UP LOOKING LIKE RICHARD SIMMONS BECAUSE WE KNOW WHAT'S GOOD FOR YOU AND YOU SHOULD THANK US FOR ONLY CHARGING 150% MORE THAN OUR COMPETITORS" crap really gets ridiculous after awhile.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-22-2009, 10:26 PM
To this day I can't believe anybody would follow a diet developed by Chris Shugart.

Yeah I can't believe anybody would follow a diet that works.

By the way, calling it a "fast" is a joke. I'm not hungry. Christ, I just burped.

SoCalBronco
04-22-2009, 11:09 PM
Thanks. What's amazing is the Orange Mane provided a ton of motivation. It sounds silly but all the people telling me how fat I was really got to me. Whatever works.

Good job, Clayton. :thumbsup:

Bob's your Information Minister
04-22-2009, 11:26 PM
It's funny...I really had more motivation from the internet than real life. No one ever berated me for being a fat **** in real life...GO INTERNET!

Jason in LA
04-23-2009, 12:14 AM
It's funny...I really had more motivation from the internet than real life. No one ever berated me for being a fat **** in real life...GO INTERNET!

I'm glad to have helped you lmao ;D

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/Jlewis3233/loser.jpg

scorpio
04-23-2009, 06:33 AM
Yeah I can't believe anybody would follow a diet that works.

By the way, calling it a "fast" is a joke. I'm not hungry. Christ, I just burped.

I didn't say it didn't work. I was implying that it's foolish to spend $600 on supplements to make it work, especially when you already seem to have a fairly good handle on exercise and nutrition.

T-Nation = dogma

Bob's your Information Minister
04-23-2009, 07:31 AM
I didn't say it didn't work. I was implying that it's foolish to spend $600 on supplements to make it work, especially when you already seem to have a fairly good handle on exercise and nutrition.


I know. I'm just impatient.

TheReverend
04-23-2009, 07:34 AM
I know. I'm just impatient.

Yeah, waiting 26 years illustrates that impatience :wave:

Just messing with ya, you're doing great now.

BroncoDoug
04-23-2009, 11:27 PM
Well I guess I'll throw in my story. I've read through most of this thread, and congrats to all of you that have lost the weight!

I'm looking to join the Air force but at 5"8 I was 204 lbs, I'm not fat or anything, but according to the Air Force my max weight was 180, so I've been trying to lose the 24lbs so I can enlist. Also the max body fat% is 26%, I was at 31%.

Since the beginning of March I've started running again and really watching my eating. Also doing some sit ups and push ups, since that's all I'm going to be doing in basic training. I'm on a pretty low calorie diet also, along with the working out.

Well, since the beggining of March I've lost 16lbs and am now at 188, my goal is to be at 180 by the Middle of may. I am dirt poor so getting a gym membership right now is out of the question, but I am doing what I can with what I got and I do feel a lot better about my self now, I can definatly tell a difference in my stomach area.

But its nice to hear all of your stories and I will be keeping up with everyone for more helpful tips!

Dagmar
04-24-2009, 08:03 AM
Bob, since the internet is encouraging you, will the internet encourage you to go hang yourself? I guess you won't need as strong a rope now.

Claythan... you're a sad bitter man and you'll likely die a sad bitter man.
you are an epic piece of ****


a self absorbed, worthless, piece of ****
make it forever, we won't miss you or your crap
you say don't take the internet so seriously, then use the internet to justify your actions?

you were given a second chance to redeem yourself by a lot of the members of the board, and you just went and kicked it in the mouth.
Many of us I have tried to reach him in the past, I just did but only to try to get him to walk away from this. He is what he is a sad little person with serious issues. He lives his life through jocks and movie stars. A bitter bystander in life and as I have said before shame on his dad for allowing him to become what he is.
He was over on orangemane making a bet with a poster. Dont remember the bet. He makes many of them. Sig bets. Bets where he leaves for a month if wrong or the other poster leaves for said month if they are wrong.

One day he makes a bet for 50 dollars with a poster I wont name. That poster lost the bet. He paid gochiefs 50 dollars. What seemed like a few days later, gochiefs makes another bet that he will leave the forum for a term I dont remember. He lost. He never held up his end of the bet. On sevaral occasions after that he did the same thing. Until finally no one would bet him.

He had no problem taking money out of someones pocket. But he couldn't even stay gone (which costs nothing) for a few days. I told him then how I felt about it. I even explained the cost in terms of self respect that he was paying. I asked him to return the 50 dollars. He never has.

Instead, he crowed about the forum like he thought it was funny. Had a sinature that read "welcher and proud of it". Never has manned up. It's been well over a year.

Now he's crying that I'm picking on him. he still doesn't realize it's the cost of a lack of integrity that he's paying. Couple that with practically cheering my eventual death and the picture should become clear.

I understand it's a Bronco forum and all. But the make up of a man should not be sacrificed simply because of sports rivalries. He has shown over and over what he's about.

He goes through life with a feeling of entitlement that he hasn't earned. That's why he's in mommas basement, that's why he has no confidence with girls, that's why his opinion of himself has become dependent on something as detached as a football forum.

All prices for the lack of integrity he chooses not to have.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-24-2009, 05:40 PM
Why spread that garbage in here? Don't be a prick.

Anyway, down to 191. Feelin' GOOD!

DenverBrit
04-24-2009, 06:12 PM
Boob, you're a disgusting individual.
You graduated from Troll to unconscionable arsehole and total waste of oxygen.

Dagmar
04-24-2009, 07:31 PM
Why spread that garbage in here? Don't be a prick.

Anyway, down to 191. Feelin' GOOD!

Because you are thanking the internets for your weight loss. I am hoping they improve your scumf uck of a personality. Actually, I hope you waste away. And die. I hope you get AIDS and die. But it's the internets so I can say that right you dumb fat ****?

Bob's your Information Minister
04-24-2009, 07:38 PM
See, Rusty, I can shake that off. You're not nearly as persistent as other trolls. You'll forget about this in a month.

Other people...they never learn when to quit. That's when I snap.

Dagmar
04-24-2009, 08:11 PM
That's because YOU ARE NOT ACTUALLY DYING you RETARDED

F U C K.

Florida_Bronco
04-24-2009, 08:21 PM
I love how Bobo acts all tough saying "that's when I snap!"

Something tells me his snap is more

http://img.alibaba.com/photo/10248036/Pop_Pop_Snappers.jpg

and less

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/dynamite-sam.jpg

TheReverend
04-24-2009, 08:45 PM
Why spread that garbage in here? Don't be a prick.

Anyway, down to 191. Feelin' GOOD!

How tall are you?

Got a goal weight or just shooting for a specific BF%?

Dagmar
04-24-2009, 08:54 PM
How tall are you?

Got a goal weight or just shooting for a specific BF%?

He's a 5 3 dwarf scumbag.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-24-2009, 09:15 PM
How tall are you?

Got a goal weight or just shooting for a specific BF%?

5-11

I have a goal weight, I guess, but I'm more concerned with how I look. I don't have a way to measure BF% at the moment. Can you suggest one?

DenverBrit
04-24-2009, 09:22 PM
5-11

I don't have a way to measure BF% at the moment. Can you suggest one?

Yeah, cut off that big ugly piece of fat that's on top of your neck and weigh it!

scorpio
04-24-2009, 09:36 PM
5-11

I have a goal weight, I guess, but I'm more concerned with how I look. I don't have a way to measure BF% at the moment. Can you suggest one?

The only good way to measure BF% by yourself is using skinfold calipers. Just buy some from bb.com or wherever and learn how to use them.

Bioimpedance tools like Tanita scales or Omron devices are really only useful for trending, and will vary wildly based on your level hydration, time of day, phase of the moon, etc.

TheReverend
04-24-2009, 10:04 PM
5-11

I have a goal weight, I guess, but I'm more concerned with how I look. I don't have a way to measure BF% at the moment. Can you suggest one?

Not insanely important. You'll know when you get down to ten when you start seeing real good definition. I can probably tell you from a picture within a couple percent, or just throw it up on a body building site for people to estimate.

You're the same height as I am, but probably have a thicker bone structure. You're lighter than I am now, but I spent a LOT of time in the gym getting to my weight, with a lot of diet discipline and even some cheat drugs.

I'd suggest you push for 175-180 and then maintain that for a month to make sure it's not just a lack of water weight. Then you should start learning everything you can about weight training and rotate into a good program supplemented with cardio and don't let your diet discipline slip.

TheReverend
04-24-2009, 10:07 PM
You guys realize you're the ones doing the trolling in this thread, right? Why not go after him in another...? Here he's doing pretty damn good and might even be inspiring some of the other posters you don't wish a disastruous fate on.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-24-2009, 10:15 PM
Not insanely important. You'll know when you get down to ten when you start seeing real good definition. I can probably tell you from a picture within a couple percent, or just throw it up on a body building site for people to estimate.

I can already see my upper abs peeking out. The problem I have...there's definitely loose skin below that flapping around. I may have to look into surgery.

Harvitz81
04-25-2009, 06:20 AM
I can already see my upper abs peeking out. The problem I have...there's definitely loose skin below that flapping around. I may have to look into surgery.

The loose skin will eventually tighten, but it takes a long time. Trust me, I went from 275 to 185 and had loose skin on my lower abdomen. I was 185 in Feb. and am now back up to 200 and have less loose skin because I've been weight training and trying to pack on muscle. Your skin will slowly tighten if you start hitting the weights - it just takes time. I still have a long way to go, but I know I will get there. Nothing can stop my determination now. I'm 6'1" and my final goal is to be about 215-220 lbs with 6-8% body fat. I'm hoping to be there in about a year or two. I think currently I'm about 12-14% BF, so I need to pack on about 20-30 lbs of muscle and lose 10-15 lbs of fat.

I used to be addicted to what the scale said, but now I hardly weigh myself once a week. It is all about how much body fat and muscle I have. The Reverend is right, go to bb.com and learn some good diets and routines. It has helped me improve a lot.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-25-2009, 07:09 AM
Your skin will slowly tighten if you start hitting the weights - it just takes time.
I started hitting the weights over a year ago. That's what worries me.

Could be worse, though.

http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/three.jpg

You don't have any before/after pics, perchance?

I think currently I'm about 12-14% BF, so I need to pack on about 20-30 lbs of muscle and lose 10-15 lbs of fat.

Man the V-Diet was tailor made for you. Give it a try.

Harvitz81
04-25-2009, 09:20 AM
I started hitting the weights over a year ago. That's what worries me.


Man the V-Diet was tailor made for you. Give it a try.


I'm pretty happy with my current diet. It is basically this everyday:

5:45 in the morning - Whey Protein shake with Water (green magnitude and white flood supplements as well)
6:15-7:30 - Hit the Weights
8:00 - 1 cup oats w/ 1.5 cups skim milk, 1 scoop whey, 1-2 tbsp Flax seeds, 1 tbsp PB, 1 banana - stirred all together
11:00 - 3 hard boiled eggs, 1 banana w/ 1 tbsp PB
1:00 - Chicken breast on a salad or sandwich, yogurt, 1 banana, some carrots
4:30 - Power Shake - Oats, Milk, Yogurt, Whey Protein, Flax Seeds, PB and fruit all blended together (About 40 g Protein, 45 g Carbs and 10 g Fat per serving)
6:30-7:00 - HIIT for 20-30 minutes on my elliptical
7:30-8:00 - Lean cut of meat (usually a chicken breast), green salad, sweet potatoes, and more green vegetables depending on what I feel like
11:00-11:30 - 1 c. Cottage cheese and handful of almonds, or 3 eggs and handful of almonds
12:00 - bed

My maintenance caloric intake is roughly 3500 calories, so I actually shoot for 4000 as I'm trying to bulk at the moment (I know I should cut out the cardio, but I'm too addicted to working out...). I'm currently experimenting with the zigzag diet where my weekly caloric intake is roughly 28,000 calories, but some days I'll have only 2000-2500 whereas some days I'll have over 5,000. It is supposed to help you build muscle and lose fat, which is a really difficult thing to do. It is easy to adjust my daily diet up or down since I have a pretty good base diet. Regardless, when I get to about 230, I'll start a slow cut diet to lose the fat and maintain muscle (aiming at losing only 0.5-1 lb a week while still lifting a lot). I'll keep this bulking and cutting cycle until I get to my goal. I don't care if it takes 2 years, I'll get there.

TheReverend
04-25-2009, 10:17 AM
I'm pretty happy with my current diet. It is basically this everyday:

5:45 in the morning - Whey Protein shake with Water (green magnitude and white flood supplements as well)
6:15-7:30 - Hit the Weights
8:00 - 1 cup oats w/ 1.5 cups skim milk, 1 scoop whey, 1-2 tbsp Flax seeds, 1 tbsp PB, 1 banana - stirred all together
11:00 - 3 hard boiled eggs, 1 banana w/ 1 tbsp PB
1:00 - Chicken breast on a salad or sandwich, yogurt, 1 banana, some carrots
4:30 - Power Shake - Oats, Milk, Yogurt, Whey Protein, Flax Seeds, PB and fruit all blended together (About 40 g Protein, 45 g Carbs and 10 g Fat per serving)
6:30-7:00 - HIIT for 20-30 minutes on my elliptical
7:30-8:00 - Lean cut of meat (usually a chicken breast), green salad, sweet potatoes, and more green vegetables depending on what I feel like
11:00-11:30 - 1 c. Cottage cheese and handful of almonds, or 3 eggs and handful of almonds
12:00 - bed

My maintenance caloric intake is roughly 3500 calories, so I actually shoot for 4000 as I'm trying to bulk at the moment (I know I should cut out the cardio, but I'm too addicted to working out...). I'm currently experimenting with the zigzag diet where my weekly caloric intake is roughly 28,000 calories, but some days I'll have only 2000-2500 whereas some days I'll have over 5,000. It is supposed to help you build muscle and lose fat, which is a really difficult thing to do. It is easy to adjust my daily diet up or down since I have a pretty good base diet. Regardless, when I get to about 230, I'll start a slow cut diet to lose the fat and maintain muscle (aiming at losing only 0.5-1 lb a week while still lifting a lot). I'll keep this bulking and cutting cycle until I get to my goal. I don't care if it takes 2 years, I'll get there.

Anything specific inhibiting your sleep!?

Bob's your Information Minister
04-25-2009, 11:47 AM
That seems like a lot of food to me.

TheReverend
04-25-2009, 11:50 AM
That seems like a lot of food to me.

But it's all good food. For his level of activity and size, he probably needs a minimum of 2,500-3,000 calories.

He's eating great. If I were to find ANYTHING to criticize, it'd be the intensity of his morning weight routine considering it'd been a while since he'd had a good amount of carb consumption before-hand.

That's even a stretch to criticize that... his diet is damn near perfect.

TheReverend
04-25-2009, 11:52 AM
My maintenance caloric intake is roughly 3500 calories

My estimate was low! Woops.

Harvitz81
04-25-2009, 03:36 PM
Anything specific inhibiting your sleep!?

I'm in grad school :) Actually I function pretty fine on 6 hours of sleep. I do eventually want to move my weight training to the evening though and maybe move the HIIT cardio to the morning.

I try to eat immediately after lifting though to get some carbs into my system.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-25-2009, 04:55 PM
What does cottage cheese do for you besides protein?

Harvitz81
04-25-2009, 05:10 PM
What does cottage cheese do for you besides protein?

The Protein in cottage cheese is really slow digesting, so it is ideal to have right before bed to keep your metabolism going. Plus 1 c. of cottage cheese has 28 g of protein, so it is one of the cheapest sources of protein out there.

I also am shooting for 1-1.5g of protein a day per lb of body weight to try and build muscle while bulking. This means I have to shoot for 200-300 grams a day, which can sometimes be a difficult thing to do.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-25-2009, 05:56 PM
Nice. I will start eating it! I actually love it, though its better with ritz.

DB-Freak
04-26-2009, 04:19 PM
HIIT is retarded.

TheReverend
04-26-2009, 05:39 PM
HIIT is retarded.

That's a pretty myopic thing to say, DB. It's effects of raising your metabolism higher for longer than other forms of cardio are pretty well proven.

Is it good for a calorie deficit? No.

Is it good for ketosis? No.

Is it good for gaining muscle? No.

But it's certainly got it's massively effective uses.

DB-Freak
04-26-2009, 09:50 PM
That's a pretty myopic thing to say, DB. It's effects of raising your metabolism higher for longer than other forms of cardio are pretty well proven.

Is it good for a calorie deficit? No.

Is it good for ketosis? No.

Is it good for gaining muscle? No.

But it's certainly got it's massively effective uses.

Nubs shouldnt use it

Finger Roll
04-27-2009, 09:33 PM
I was fat in my 20's even though I worked out alot. but now I have little body fat in my 30's ever since I stopped drinking soda and started drinking whey protien shakes and lots of water throughout the day. I would recommend people to eat at least 80 grams a day. It really increases your metabolism. And weight training icreases your metabolism by 15%! Also if your going to have sugar or simple carbs do it when your blood sugar level is at it's lowest. That would be in the morning over after a workout. Controlling blood sugar level is key to losing weight.

Taco John
04-28-2009, 10:54 PM
Nice. I will start eating it! I actually love it, though its better with ritz.

I like cottage cheese with chunks of pineapple. I've also found it to be very good with Franks Red Hot.

Onion and garlic - not so much...

Taco John
04-28-2009, 10:55 PM
Two months of eating healthy, and twenty pounds lost. My goal is to lose 30 more by my son's birthday on September 2nd, and get down to 180.

Bob's your Information Minister
04-29-2009, 11:18 AM
Congrats Taco. What did you change?

Taco John
04-29-2009, 12:08 PM
I'm just eating (much) healthier and within a certain caloric range. I never go over 2100 calories a day.

DB-Freak
06-02-2009, 05:06 PM
I'm just eating (much) healthier and within a certain caloric range. I never go over 2100 calories a day.

U'll have to keep that up for the rest of your life.

Orange_Beard
06-07-2009, 03:09 PM
I went to the Doc the other day. Weighted in at 199.5. First time I have been under 200 in 10 or so years.

Doc asked what I do for a work out. I just said the I have a 5 year old, just try to keep up.

Taco John
06-08-2009, 09:45 AM
U'll have to keep that up for the rest of your life.


I'll have to be more conscientious of my diet for the rest of my life, yes. I won't have to consume only 2100 calories a day for the rest of my life though. That's just my losing level. Once I get to my target, I'll be able to maintain my weight at a 3000 calorie per day average. That will be a piece of cake.

mr007
06-16-2009, 04:42 PM
Wow, a 24hr fitness trainer (chick) actually came up to me and said "don't drop the weights like that, it breaks them."

Rubber weights on a rubber mat standing straight up and dropping them equally on their sides. I don't know why but it pissed me off and I feel like venting somewhere, so here it is.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-16-2009, 05:29 PM
You should have replied I WILL BREAK YOU!

TheReverend
06-16-2009, 05:48 PM
Wow, a 24hr fitness trainer (chick) actually came up to me and said "don't drop the weights like that, it breaks them."

Rubber weights on a rubber mat standing straight up and dropping them equally on their sides. I don't know why but it pissed me off and I feel like venting somewhere, so here it is.

Incline DB?

Shrugs?

Farmer walks?

I want answers goddamn it!

TheReverend
06-16-2009, 05:48 PM
You should have replied I WILL BREAK YOU!

Been meaning to ask you, how's your velocity diet thing going? Still with it?

Bob's your Information Minister
06-16-2009, 05:58 PM
Been meaning to ask you, how's your velocity diet thing going? Still with it?

Been done with that for awhile. It got me down to 190.

I've adopted the freeweight exercises as part of my regular routine.

TheReverend
06-16-2009, 06:00 PM
Been done with that for awhile. It got me down to 190.

I've adopted the freeweight exercises as part of my regular routine.

Current weight?

Have you taped yourself for measurement's purposes and for a general BF% idea?

Bob's your Information Minister
06-16-2009, 06:08 PM
Current weight?

Have you taped yourself for measurement's purposes and for a general BF% idea?

I taped myself before but never got around to doing it afterwards....I definitely saw difference in the mirror, though.

I was down to 18% BF last I checked according to my scale. I need to get some calipers though.

I'll weigh myself tomorrow morning just for you. ;)

TheReverend
06-16-2009, 06:16 PM
I taped myself before but never got around to doing it afterwards....I definitely saw difference in the mirror, though.

I was down to 18% BF last I checked according to my scale. I need to get some calipers though.

I'll weigh myself tomorrow morning just for you. ;)

18% is an awesome accomplishment if that's accurate Bob.

That picture I posted of my back flexed post bulk at 210 lbs is roughly 18%, fyi.

Get some tape and tape out your neck, chest, waist and arms just for my curiosity of your progress. Do you know how to do it properly or want me to direct you to instructional vids?

Bob's your Information Minister
06-16-2009, 07:01 PM
18% is an awesome accomplishment if that's accurate Bob.

That picture I posted of my back flexed post bulk at 210 lbs is roughly 18%, fyi.

Get some tape and tape out your neck, chest, waist and arms just for my curiosity of your progress. Do you know how to do it properly or want me to direct you to instructional vids?

Nah I got it. I wear size 33 khakis now BTW.

TheReverend
06-16-2009, 07:07 PM
Nah I got it. I wear size 33 khakis now BTW.

Congrats man. I'm a 32.

That doesn't mean your waist is 33 though. Clothing makers make the size smaller to make people feel less fat. Plus pants waists are worn below gut.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-16-2009, 07:08 PM
Congrats man. I'm a 32.

That doesn't mean your waist is 33 though. Clothing makers make the size smaller to make people feel less fat. Plus pants waists are worn below gut.

Haha that's true. Well I wear size M shirts too...so it's all good. Very happy.

TheReverend
06-16-2009, 07:14 PM
Haha that's true. Well I wear size M shirts too...so it's all good. Very happy.

Awesome... you're probably only a month away from when you can get start getting into obsessive fine tuning territory where you bulk like hell for a few months and then cut it all off again, over, and over, and over, and over.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-16-2009, 07:16 PM
Awesome... you're probably only a month away from when you can get start getting into obsessive fine tuning territory where you bulk like hell for a few months and then cut it all off again, over, and over, and over, and over.

I don't know that I'll ever be that obsessive. I don't really eat enough to get mad bulk going...though today I increased my weight and did some 5x5s just to change it up.

TheReverend
06-16-2009, 07:39 PM
I don't know that I'll ever be that obsessive. I don't really eat enough to get mad bulk going...though today I increased my weight and did some 5x5s just to change it up.

Get there.

Then you'll see.

There's never a "That's it. I'm where I want to be" moment.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-16-2009, 07:49 PM
Rev at this point you're going to make me feel guilty about it. LMAO

TheReverend
06-16-2009, 08:33 PM
Rev at this point you're going to make me feel guilty about it. LMAO

You should. You wasted over 20 years of your life, Clayton. Somehow your fat ass got some willpower and presented you with an unique opportunity. Don't **** it up.

TheReverend
06-16-2009, 08:35 PM
Btw, does that still motivate you when it comes from me, or just when someone is mean spirited about it?

Bob's your Information Minister
06-16-2009, 09:04 PM
I think.....mostly I am motivated by not wanting to be "Priest Holmes Sun Dress Guy" ever again.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-16-2009, 09:09 PM
The other thing I am motivated by is when I am at the gym with my back turned to a girl, and she has her back turned to me, but I can see her reflection in the window in front of me, and I see her turn her head in the reflection so she can check me out while she THINKS I can't see her because my back is turned but nooooo honey I see you checking me out hahahaha.

DB-Freak
06-17-2009, 03:02 AM
it's a long and slow process...

And it's a lifestyle change. Never ****ing forget that.

IT's gonna last a lifetime.

mr007
06-17-2009, 10:59 AM
Incline DB?

Shrugs?

Farmer walks?

I want answers goddamn it!

Incline DB, 100s.

It's not that I couldn't gently lay them down, it's just pretty effin' hard on your body, and if they're rubber and hitting a rubber mat, who cares?

TheReverend
06-17-2009, 12:07 PM
Incline DB, 100s.

It's not that I couldn't gently lay them down, it's just pretty effin' hard on your body, and if they're rubber and hitting a rubber mat, who cares?

Completely agree. That would've REALLY pissed me off.

Was that your first compound chest/shoulders/tris workout? If not, that weight is really impressive for incline DBs, especially if your muscles are already tired.

Or does your height come with T-Rex arms? :)

(Sorry, had to)

mr007
06-17-2009, 12:16 PM
Completely agree. That would've REALLY pissed me off.

Was that your first compound chest/shoulders/tris workout? If not, that weight is really impressive for incline DBs, especially if your muscles are already tired.

Or does your height come with T-Rex arms? :)

(Sorry, had to)

Haha, nope 4th-6th sets (chest/back) and thanks!

TheReverend
06-17-2009, 12:26 PM
Haha, nope 4th-6th sets (chest/back) and thanks!

That's after BB bench on your routine, right? How many reps?

mr007
06-17-2009, 01:03 PM
That's after BB bench on your routine, right? How many reps?

Naw, I switch up my bench days between BB and Dumbbells. I do flat/rows with dbs, then incline/lat pulls. I do about 6 reps with the 100s and then 8 or so reps with the 50s in each set for incline. Depends on how my muscles are doing that day, the last set of inclines I might only do 5 with the 100s.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-17-2009, 07:33 PM
Anyone tried this ****?

http://www.forcefactor.com/

Pseudofool
06-17-2009, 08:53 PM
I've started jogging with my dog (going on my third or fourth week). Hard as hell to motivate myself out the door. Had to buy an mp3 player as incentive. I can only jog about half or so (3/4ths today, but that was new) of the 2 miles we go. Dog likes it, though it sucks when she suddenly stops to dart at a squirrel or to take a poo.

It's really difficult to find motivation to stay in shape. Those that have a routine or naturally find motivation to do so count yourself lucky. It's just not easy to do.

I've got a fairly large gut, and I've done some sit-ups everyday using an ab roller, but my love handles are the bad part, and I'm not sure the sit ups do much there. Any advice for a naturally lazy guy?

TheReverend
06-17-2009, 09:53 PM
Anyone tried this ****?

http://www.forcefactor.com/

Waste of time.

Ingredients and concept are silly.

Preworkout, NO supps can be effective, but the recommended dosing is silly and the product is overpriced.

To be certain, I ran a search on bb.com

Results:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=116630741&highlight=force+factor

Edit: You're not ready for Supps beyond whey protein, anyways. Please keep this thread updated with your progress, or PM me if you're more comfortable that way. I'll be more than happy to take an even more pro-active role in your life-style, clayton.

Edit 2: You have my e-mail still, dip****.

TheReverend
06-17-2009, 09:55 PM
I've started jogging with my dog (going on my third or fourth week). Hard as hell to motivate myself out the door. Had to buy an mp3 player as incentive. I can only jog about half or so (3/4ths today, but that was new) of the 2 miles we go. Dog likes it, though it sucks when she suddenly stops to dart at a squirrel or to take a poo.

It's really difficult to find motivation to stay in shape. Those that have a routine or naturally find motivation to do so count yourself lucky. It's just not easy to do.

I've got a fairly large gut, and I've done some sit-ups everyday using an ab roller, but my love handles are the bad part, and I'm not sure the sit ups do much there. Any advice for a naturally lazy guy?

I'd like to take a quick opportunity to remind you that cardio is for the heart and diet is for fat loss.

Running 5 miles is roughly the equivalent of only one healthy, low cal meal.

If your desire is heart health, please continue. If your goal is fat loss, please state so and there are several people here qualified to helping you adjust your diet to achieve your goal if your will power can match it.

Pseudofool
06-17-2009, 10:19 PM
I'd like to take a quick opportunity to remind you that cardio is for the heart and diet is for fat loss.

Running 5 miles is roughly the equivalent of only one healthy, low cal meal.

If your desire is heart health, please continue. If your goal is fat loss, please state so and there are several people here qualified to helping you adjust your diet to achieve your goal if your will power can match it.Well, that's just poopy. I'm not sure I have the willpower (nor the cash) to really change my diet. I'm pretty much eating eggs in the morning and tuna and crackers at night. I don't really eat much I think (but the drinking might add the calories), but I wasn't getting any exercise for years. (Is eating less the same as dieting?).

(I think my problem is really just undiagnosed depression, hence lack of willpower. I thought exercise might get me out of the rut, but it hasn't yet, maybe I should just start popping and the willpower will start to follow).

I know I could read up on this stuff, but that takes will power, and the only motivation I've got is to dispense opinion on message boards (so sad!).

TheReverend
06-17-2009, 10:29 PM
Well, that's just poopy. I'm not sure I have the willpower (nor the cash) to really change my diet. I'm pretty much eating eggs in the morning and tuna and crackers at night. I don't really eat much I think (but the drinking might add the calories), but I wasn't getting any exercise for years. (Is eating less the same as dieting?).

(I think my problem is really just undiagnosed depression, hence lack of willpower. I thought exercise might get me out of the rut, but it hasn't yet, maybe I should just start popping and the willpower will start to follow).

I know I could read up on this stuff, but that takes will power, and the only motivation I've got is to dispense opinion on message boards (so sad!).

I'm not claiming a great deal of expertise, but if you listen to a couple simple words of advice, I think I could help you more than you realize at first read through.

First of all, avoid processed foods.

You'd be surprised the impact that alone can have on your life.

Secondly, you didn't mention a goal, but I'm going to guess it's fat loss.

So take your body weight, multiply by 1.2 and make that your caloric intake.

If you can follow those 2 steps alone, you'll be shocked by the dramatic body transformation you can make in a few months by following ONLY those steps.

Now... if you're more athletic than you seem to be from a couple message board posts:

Then increase your calorie intake, but try and change your macros to:

40 pro (minimum!)/40 carb/20 fat (remember 1g of pro/carb/fat = 4/4/9).

Try to take the bulk of your carbs in the morning, or immediately following a workout.

Also, weight training is amazing. It'll boost your metabolism by AT LEAST 10% if you train semi-properly to upwards of 20%. On top of that, for every lb of muscle you gain, you're increasing the caloric fuel it takes to run your body. Adding muscle is fairly easy for beginners.

Best wishes in achieving whatever your goals are.

Pseudofool
06-17-2009, 10:34 PM
40 pro (minimum!)/40 carb/20 fat (remember 1g of pro/carb/fat = 4/4/9).

Thanks for the advice, and yes, fat loss is the goal. One question, I don't quite get the above number distribution. Is that forty grams of protein, etc? Or calories, or what?

TheReverend
06-17-2009, 10:39 PM
Thanks for the advice, and yes, fat loss is the goal. One question, I don't quite get the above number distribution. Is that forty grams of protein, etc? Or calories, or what?

No, sir.

%.

Let's say you weigh 200 lbs.

200 x 12 (meant 12, not 1.2 in previous post) = 2400 calories a day

This is for fairly sedentary people... don't take offense by that, I just don't know your daily activity scale.

Now we take 2400 and break it down further:

% cals g's
Protein 40 960 240
Carbs 40 960 240
Fats 20 480 53.33333333
2400

TheReverend
06-17-2009, 10:40 PM
Yikes! Format screwed up.

You want:

240g's of protein a day
240g's of carbs a day (try and front load them as much as possible and avoid ANY in the evenings to night unless you're trying to bulk up muscle)
53g's of fat a day

Pseudofool
06-17-2009, 10:51 PM
Thanks, buddy. Is there a quick reference website that will tell me how much calories/protein an egg has, bacon has, a fresh potato has, etc? I only ask since you seem keen on helping people.

TheReverend
06-17-2009, 10:56 PM
Thanks, buddy. Is there a quick reference website that will tell me how much calories/protein an egg has, bacon has, a fresh potato has, etc? I only ask since you seem keen on helping people.

Yes.

It's on the carton of eggs.

The bacon container.

The sack of potatoes.

Etc.

Just be careful to read how much is in a serving and what a "serving" consists of. Try to be pro-active. When buying meats, buy extra lean meats or poultry. When you eat carbs, consuming fibrous carbs is great, complex is good in the morning, and simple can be effective post workout to spike your insulin levels to inject protein and complex carbs to your muscles, but otherwise should be avoided at a rookie level.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-17-2009, 11:04 PM
Sit ups aren't going to do **** to get rid of your gut.

TheReverend
06-17-2009, 11:07 PM
Sit ups aren't going to do **** to get rid of your gut.

Because sit ups and crunches aren't very effective ab work outs to begin with, and BF % is more reflective of "abs" than anything else.

Squats and deads are amazing core workouts, though.

Taco John
06-19-2009, 08:46 AM
Woohoo! I broke through the barrier. Scale reads 199.4 lbs.

Woot!

BroncoBuff
06-19-2009, 08:55 AM
Yeah!

BroncoBuff
06-19-2009, 09:15 AM
The other thing I am motivated by is when I am at the gym with my back turned to a girl, and she has her back turned to me, but I can see her reflection in the window in front of me, and I see her turn her head in the reflection so she can check me out while she THINKS I can't see her because my back is turned but nooooo honey I see you checking me out hahahaha.
Oh brother ... :oyvey:

Nice losses though Clay, seriously ... you might be the biggest success story in here.


I gotta get going again .... looks like I'm gonna be single now again after 6 years ... it's tougher than I thought it would be. I'm having some real depressed moments.

Better jump back on that gym thing religiously, I know it'll help. Plus I'm back on Atkins, for June anyway ... no real losses yet, we'll see.

Spider
06-22-2009, 04:56 PM
well I am down to 214 pounds , I think the only way I can get down to 200 now is to have a penis reduction done ........ ;D

BroncoBuff
06-22-2009, 05:00 PM
LOL

I didn't know they did that kinda surgery anymore ????

Spider
06-22-2009, 05:01 PM
LOL

I didn't know they did that kinda surgery anymore ????
;D

Los Broncos
06-23-2009, 06:59 PM
I started at 255 now down to 234, 15-20 more would be nice.

Then I just need to maintain.

TheReverend
06-23-2009, 11:09 PM
I started at 255 now down to 234, 15-20 more would be nice.

Then I just need to maintain.

Post pics, I'll tell you when to maintain. :)

Stop eating processed foods. That will chop your body fat in half, I guarantee it.

TheReverend
06-23-2009, 11:09 PM
well I am down to 214 pounds , I think the only way I can get down to 200 now is to have a penis reduction done ........ ;D

Spider,

Didn't the Doctors tell you that dividing by zero is impossible?

Bob's your Information Minister
06-24-2009, 05:13 AM
Post pics, I'll tell you when to maintain. :)

Stop eating processed foods. That will chop your body fat in half, I guarantee it.

What?

But I LIKE my lean pockets! :(

Don't tell me canned foods count as "processed."

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 10:27 AM
What?

But I LIKE my lean pockets! :(

Don't tell me canned foods count as "processed."

You seem to be doing a good enough job not to worry about it.

I'm cutting my weight right now... I'm at 18 lbs in less than a month right now and I've got about 6 more to go. I'm certain I've lost muscle with fat, but nothing I can't put back on quickly when summer ends and I dirty bulk again.

Personal suggestion to avoid needing lean pockets at all:

Buy 3 lbs of 96% lean ground beef, 3 cans of kidney beans, 4 cans of stewed tomatoes and make a massive vat of chili. Even though it's hyper lean, after you brown the beef, drain what little fat there is anyways.

Shove it in the fridge. Anytime you want a quick meal that's high protein, moderate carbs and low fat, you can throw some in the microwave.

Tastes a lot better than a lean pocket too.

TheDave
06-25-2009, 09:10 AM
Post pics, I'll tell you when to maintain. :)

Stop eating processed foods. That will chop your body fat in half, I guarantee it.

I was absolutely shocked at how quickly this dropped the bodyfat... Granted it really helped me with my fast food hamburger addiction. ;)

But in all seriousness cutting out the processed crap has been a blessing both in terms of cutting BF and feeling more "Healthy" overall.

On a side not my wife recently started on an organic kick... at 5'8" and already under 130 lbs she dropped to just under 125 lbs in a little over a month. I'm not sure if the removal of pestacides could really do this but I have read a number of studdies that show these chemicals do interupt the endrocine system.

BroncoBuff
06-25-2009, 09:34 AM
I've been on Atkins since June 2 .... not much loss yet. Last time on Atkins I dropped 3-5 pounds in each of Weeks 3, 4 and 5. True story .... lost 25 pounds in 6 weeks.

You count carb intake, 20 carbs per day max. This time I've been a bit more lax, I've allowed 30 even 40 on a few days, but still ... I should be losing more.

Maybe I'll get tough about the 20 carb max. ???

BroncoBuff
06-25-2009, 09:36 AM
You know you'vce been on Atkins too long when even an $11 Trader Joe's ribeye tastes boring :oyvey:


Tunafish ... omelettes ... kielbasa .... egg salad ... grocery store chicken roaters ... hamburger patties ... steaks ... stir frys ....

Even this stuff gets old eventually :(

TheDave
06-25-2009, 09:41 AM
I've been on Atkins since June 2 .... not much loss yet. Last time I dropped 4-5 pounds in Weeks 3, 4 and 5.

You count carb intake, 20 carbs per day max. This time I've been a bit more lax, I've allowed 30 even 40 on a few days, but still ... I should be losing more.

Maybe I'll get tough about the 20 max. ???

You need to... the way atkins works is based solely on ketogenisis. If you are even 1 gram of carbs over your individual threshold the body does everything it can to continue burning glucose for enegy.

If your going to do Atkins you need to do it to the letter.

By the way Alcohol breaks down a very important chemical called lipoprotien lipase. Without this enzyme the body can not breakdown fat. Specifically subcutaneous bodyfat. Point is, the booze is destroying the one chemical needed for ketogenisis to take place... add to that you are taking in approx. double the carbs the diet calls for.

I think we just figured out why it isn't working... ;D

TheDave
06-25-2009, 10:07 AM
Buff,

Here is a pic that illustrates the process of Ketosis. The 2 problems you are running into right now are as follows:

Increased carb intake is maintaining insulin levels above optimum... this tells the body to remain on a sugar burning ATP cycle.

Next alchohol consumption halts the bodys from effectively breaking down fat cells into fatty acids.

These 2 things combined are making the Atkins diet useless... Add to that you are consuming significant amounts of dietary fat. With moderate insulin levels and elevated estrogeen levels (another bi-product of alchol) your body is actually accumulating fat.

By the way does that get me the flask... J/K


http://ucsf.mightyminnow.com/images/charts/1.f.ii.jpg

DB-Freak
06-25-2009, 10:46 PM
I'll have to be more conscientious of my diet for the rest of my life, yes. I won't have to consume only 2100 calories a day for the rest of my life though. That's just my losing level. Once I get to my target, I'll be able to maintain my weight at a 3000 calorie per day average. That will be a piece of cake.

Unless you raise your basal metabolic rate, you won't be able to maintain your weight at 3000 calories.

Florida_Bronco
06-25-2009, 11:54 PM
You need to... the way atkins works is based solely on ketogenisis. If you are even 1 gram of carbs over your individual threshold the body does everything it can to continue burning glucose for enegy.

If your going to do Atkins you need to do it to the letter.

By the way Alcohol breaks down a very important chemical called lipoprotien lipase. Without this enzyme the body can not breakdown fat. Specifically subcutaneous bodyfat. Point is, the booze is destroying the one chemical needed for ketogenisis to take place... add to that you are taking in approx. double the carbs the diet calls for.

I think we just figured out why it isn't working... ;D

That's exactly right. Even after you've been on these low carb diets for awhile you still can't increase your carb intake that high unless you're an extremely efficent fat burner. I've kept my carb intake down around 20g per day but allow a little leeway up to 30g per day.

Buff, did you ever read that PDF I sent you? That version of the low carb diet works a little better than Atkins and after the first two weeks you can eat whatever you want on the weekends. Looking forward to those weekends have kept me sane on this diet and it performs a very important function in the diet as it replenishes your glyocen levels. Also with the protein intake being low on the weekends it's been said that your body will make the most use out of the protein you take in starting on Mondays.

Also, TheDave is right about the alcohol too. It's the worst thing for a low carb diet, even worse than sugar. You ABSOLUTELY need to ban that from your diet (except for the weekends) no matter if it's a low carb light beer or not.

mr007
06-26-2009, 02:42 PM
That's exactly right. Even after you've been on these low carb diets for awhile you still can't increase your carb intake that high unless you're an extremely efficent fat burner. I've kept my carb intake down around 20g per day but allow a little leeway up to 30g per day.

Buff, did you ever read that PDF I sent you? That version of the low carb diet works a little better than Atkins and after the first two weeks you can eat whatever you want on the weekends. Looking forward to those weekends have kept me sane on this diet and it performs a very important function in the diet as it replenishes your glyocen levels. Also with the protein intake being low on the weekends it's been said that your body will make the most use out of the protein you take in starting on Mondays.

Also, TheDave is right about the alcohol too. It's the worst thing for a low carb diet, even worse than sugar. You ABSOLUTELY need to ban that from your diet (except for the weekends) no matter if it's a low carb light beer or not.

I tried your diet out for a while. I just had a really hard time keeping up my energy stores and I think I just had a hard time supplanting carbs and replacing them with other forms of calories. I did it for about 2.5 weeks and went back to my old diet. Not to knock it, I think my body just works well with my higher carb and protein intake.

I may give it another try after the summer, but gotta have the summer body for now!!

BroncoBuff
06-26-2009, 03:14 PM
By the way Alcohol breaks down a very important chemical called lipoprotien lipase. Without this enzyme the body can not breakdown fat. Specifically subcutaneous bodyfat. Point is, the booze is destroying the one chemical needed for ketogenisis to take place... add to that you are taking in approx. double the carbs the diet calls for.

I think we just figured out why it isn't working... ;D
Really?! He must've left that part outta the book. I know beer is a no-no (although Bud Ice and Keystone have just 5 carbs), but Dave ... spirits have zero carbs! ???

And Atkins is actually working somewhat ... just not as well as the first time.

Thanks a lot Dave, seriously ... you really know this stuff cold. I appreciate the tutorial, and I will get tough on the carb count and report back here say, after the weekend of the 4th. Gotta drink more water too, that's important.



(Ketogenesis = ketosis = lypolisis ?)

Spider
06-26-2009, 04:19 PM
Spider,

Didn't the Doctors tell you that dividing by zero is impossible?

no ,they left that part out

Florida_Bronco
06-26-2009, 06:53 PM
Really?! He must've left that part outta the book. I know beer is a no-no (although Bud Ice and Keystone have just 5 carbs), but Dave ... spirits have zero carbs! ??? Like Dave said, the carbs in alcohol is really of no matter. The alcohol itself will kill this diet. That is why...

And Atkins is actually working somewhat ... just not as well as the first time. Drop all the alcohol and you should be back to what you normally were at, weight loss wise.

Florida_Bronco
06-26-2009, 06:54 PM
I tried your diet out for a while. I just had a really hard time keeping up my energy stores and I think I just had a hard time supplanting carbs and replacing them with other forms of calories. I did it for about 2.5 weeks and went back to my old diet. Not to knock it, I think my body just works well with my higher carb and protein intake.

I may give it another try after the summer, but gotta have the summer body for now!!

That's a shame. How many carbs were you taking in?

TheDave
06-26-2009, 08:34 PM
Really?! He must've left that part outta the book. I know beer is a no-no (although Bud Ice and Keystone have just 5 carbs), but Dave ... spirits have zero carbs! ???

And Atkins is actually working somewhat ... just not as well as the first time.

Thanks a lot Dave, seriously ... you really know this stuff cold. I appreciate the tutorial, and I will get tough on the carb count and report back here say, after the weekend of the 4th. Gotta drink more water too, that's important.



(Ketogenesis = ketosis = lypolisis ?)

It's not the problem of alcohol having carbs... It's solely a function of it's effect on lipoprotien lipase. With out that enzyme the body is SEVER LY hampered in it's conversion of fat cells into fatty acids that can be used for energy.

Lipolysis is a part of the ketogenic process... Lypolisys is the act of breaking down a fat cell into it's individual fatty acids. Ketosis occurs once the liver begins to produce ketone bodies that are used in the conversion of fatty acids into energy.

BroncoBuff
06-26-2009, 09:06 PM
It's not the problem of alcohol having carbs... It's solely a function of it's effect on lipoprotien lipase. With out that enzyme the body is SEVER LY hampered in it's conversion of fat cells into fatty acids that can be used for energy.

Lipolysis is a part of the ketogenic process... Lypolisys is the act of breaking down a fat cell into it's individual fatty acids. Ketosis occurs once the liver begins to produce ketone bodies that are used in the conversion of fatty acids into energy.
Thanks ... good info. But really, 30-40 carbs is too many? I weigh 260 pounds, does that matter? I did put the bottle down right away though.

And the down side to me stopping drinking? A lot fewer flasks to give away ... did'ja even think about that before you posted this Dave?

No you didn't, because you're selfish.


;D

TheDave
06-27-2009, 06:15 AM
Thanks ... good info. But really, 30-40 carbs is too many? I weigh 260 pounds, does that matter? I did put the bottle down right away though.

And the down side to me stopping drinking? A lot fewer flasks to give away ... did'ja even think about that before you posted this Dave?

No you didn't, because you're selfish.


;D

Thats just how I roll... ;D

As for the carbs, to be honest 30-40 at 260 assuming a moderate exercise load... no that doesn't sound like too many.

For an easy way to find out, get some Ketostix from your local phamacy. They test the level of ketone bodies in the urine. This will tell you for sure if 30-40 grams is too much.

http://tsampa.org/training/blog/archives/images/ketostix.jpg

elsid13
06-27-2009, 06:34 AM
You seem to be doing a good enough job not to worry about it.

I'm cutting my weight right now... I'm at 18 lbs in less than a month right now and I've got about 6 more to go. I'm certain I've lost muscle with fat, but nothing I can't put back on quickly when summer ends and I dirty bulk again.

Personal suggestion to avoid needing lean pockets at all:

Buy 3 lbs of 96% lean ground beef, 3 cans of kidney beans, 4 cans of stewed tomatoes and make a massive vat of chili. Even though it's hyper lean, after you brown the beef, drain what little fat there is anyways.

Shove it in the fridge. Anytime you want a quick meal that's high protein, moderate carbs and low fat, you can throw some in the microwave.

Tastes a lot better than a lean pocket too.

I do that already, but use ground turkey or ground chicken instead. You can also add black beans to increase fiber and protein to the meal.

Florida_Bronco
06-27-2009, 12:22 PM
Thanks ... good info. But really, 30-40 carbs is too many?

At first, yes. You should be shooting for under 20g a day ideally, but if you end up with between 20 to 30 grams you will be fine. Once you're really fat adapted, then you can SLOWLY add some carbs back in, but not very many.

BroncoBuff
06-29-2009, 11:51 AM
For an easy way to find out, get some Ketostix from your local phamacy. They test the level of ketone bodies in the urine. This will tell you for sure if 30-40 grams is too much.

http://tsampa.org/training/blog/archives/images/ketostix.jpg

I might buy those thing today ... but, how much are they? Cause I don't really need them, I'm sub 20 a day ever since you threw that wet blanket over me :(



Question for you and Florida: The first time I did Atkins I was a sub-20-carbs stickler for 18-19 days, then went back to a basically normal diet.

DURING those 18 days I lost just a couple pounds. But after that ... in weeks 4 and 5 after starting, while eating a normal diet, THAT'S when the pounds started falling off, just FALLING off. Jeans that were tight one day were actually falling down a week later. Lost 20+ pounds in about six weeks from just those 18 days.

So, is there some kind of delayed effect?

TheReverend
06-29-2009, 11:56 AM
I might buy those thing today ... but, how much are they? Cause I don't really need them, I'm sub 20 a day ever since you threw that wet blanket over me :(



Question for you and Florida: The first time I did Atkins I was a sub-20-carbs stickler for 18-19 days, then went back to a basically normal diet.

DURING those 18 days I lost just a couple pounds. But after that ... in weeks 4 and 5 after starting, while eating a normal diet, THAT'S when the pounds started falling off, just FALLING off. Jeans that were tight one day were actually falling down a week later. Lost 20+ pounds in a month from just those 18 days.

So, is there some kind of delayed effect?

I hate those Keto strips. They're notoriously inaccurrate and give false results.

You KNOW when you're in keto. You feel like **** the first couple days while your brain is making the switch. Once there you feel better but there's still dead give-aways. Personally difficulty falling asleep is my main issue.

BroncoBuff
06-29-2009, 12:14 PM
Yeah the first 3 or so days are sluggish, mildly head-achy too.

And in my one experience doing this, I felt funny when I went back on a regular diet too. I don't eat fast food, almost no processed food, never sugary drinks ... but I still felt kinda weird for a couple days.

TheDave
06-29-2009, 12:27 PM
I might buy those thing today ... but, how much are they? Cause I don't really need them, I'm sub 20 a day ever since you threw that wet blanket over me :(



Question for you and Florida: The first time I did Atkins I was a sub-20-carbs stickler for 18-19 days, then went back to a basically normal diet.

DURING those 18 days I lost just a couple pounds. But after that ... in weeks 4 and 5 after starting, while eating a normal diet, THAT'S when the pounds started falling off, just FALLING off. Jeans that were tight one day were actually falling down a week later. Lost 20+ pounds in about six weeks from just those 18 days.

So, is there some kind of delayed effect?

Everyones, Biochem is different so there could be a 1,000 different reasons why your body takes longer to get with the program. Could of been the alcohol consumption, hidden carbs, exercise, too many calories.. The list goes on and on.

As for the ketostix they are about $10 for a pack pf 50... and don't listen to Rev, the Ketostix are accurate it's "user error" that causes problems. Just follow the directions. As with all urinalysis, hydration levels play a significant role in their results. Try to keep your fluid level the same throughout the day and make sure to use the stix at the same time every day.

The stix are just a tool to help guage the level of ketone bodies in your urine... The thought is that the greater the concentration of ketones the more severe the level of ketosis in the body. Not an exact, just another tool to help you out.

Florida_Bronco
06-29-2009, 12:47 PM
Question for you and Florida: The first time I did Atkins I was a sub-20-carbs stickler for 18-19 days, then went back to a basically normal diet.

DURING those 18 days I lost just a couple pounds. But after that ... in weeks 4 and 5 after starting, while eating a normal diet, THAT'S when the pounds started falling off, just FALLING off. Jeans that were tight one day were actually falling down a week later. Lost 20+ pounds in about six weeks from just those 18 days.

So, is there some kind of delayed effect?

Like TheDave said, there are any number of reasons why that could have happened. With these low carb diets your body has to adapt to burning fat for fuel and that can vary widely depending on so many circumstances. Once you hit that level, the fat will start coming off easily. Just make sure you stick with the diet.

TheReverend
06-29-2009, 12:56 PM
Everyones, Biochem is different so there could be a 1,000 different reasons why your body takes longer to get with the program. Could of been the alcohol consumption, hidden carbs, exercise, too many calories.. The list goes on and on.

As for the ketostix they are about $10 for a pack pf 50... and don't listen to Rev, the Ketostix are accurate it's "user error" that causes problems. Just follow the directions. As with all urinalysis, hydration levels play a significant role in their results. Try to keep your fluid level the same throughout the day and make sure to use the stix at the same time every day.

The stix are just a tool to help guage the level of ketone bodies in your urine... The thought is that the greater the concentration of ketones the more severe the level of ketosis in the body. Not an exact, just another tool to help you out.

User error my ass.

The sticks suck and are completely superfluous.

Metal taste in your mouth? You're in keto. Problem solved.

Reasons they suck:

1 hydration levels varies from day to day. Hell, you could even dehydrate yourself a bit on a carb heavy diet and they'll read that you're in ketosis. And vice versa.

After you have been on a keto type diet for > 6 weeks your urine might not contain ketones as your body is using fat more efficiently for fuel

If eating the proper amount of fat/protein ratio, there are no excess ketones to piss out.

Ketone levels shift depending on the time a day. You can piss negatively in the afternoon when they're low, and positive around midnight when they peak.

And a laundry list of other reasons they suck.

Ketones are simply partially burned fat molecules, with no guarantee of the source of that fat. Explanation from one of the founders...

This quote is from Lyle McDonald himself:

"Ketones can be made from either dietary fat or body fat.
The amount of ketones made from body fat depends on the concentration of
ketones in your bloodstream (which we can indirectly measure by ketone
concentration in your urine as urinary excretion represents the difference
between ketone production and ketone utilization)

Hence, it makes sense to me that keeping blood concentration of ketones low
(by not putting in loads of dietary fat all the time or even diluting it by
drinking boatloads of water) should allow for more bodyfat to be used."

TheDave
06-29-2009, 01:15 PM
User error my ass.

The sticks suck and are completely superfluous.

Metal taste in your mouth? You're in keto. Problem solved.

Reasons they suck:

1 hydration levels varies from day to day. Hell, you could even dehydrate yourself a bit on a carb heavy diet and they'll read that you're in ketosis. And vice versa.

After you have been on a keto type diet for > 6 weeks your urine might not contain ketones as your body is using fat more efficiently for fuel

If eating the proper amount of fat/protein ratio, there are no excess ketones to piss out.

Ketone levels shift depending on the time a day. You can piss negatively in the afternoon when they're low, and positive around midnight when they peak.

And a laundry list of other reasons they suck.

Ketones are simply partially burned fat molecules, with no guarantee of the source of that fat. Explanation from one of the founders...

This quote is from Lyle McDonald himself:
"Ketones can be made from either dietary fat or body fat.
The amount of ketones made from body fat depends on the concentration of
ketones in your bloodstream (which we can indirectly measure by ketone
concentration in your urine as urinary excretion represents the difference
between ketone production and ketone utilization)

Hence, it makes sense to me that keeping blood concentration of ketones low
(by not putting in loads of dietary fat all the time or even diluting it by
drinking boatloads of water) should allow for more bodyfat to be used."

From the founder... Awesome.

Lyle McDonald is a Dan Duchaine wanna-be (with a physical education degree no less). I officially had more education in Biology, chemistry, and nutrition half way through my Sophmore year in college... He is the founder of nothing.

They are a tool Rev... a tool that has worked in the lab and in the diabetic communities for a very long time. It wasn't until the mensa types that populate the dieting and Bodybuilder forums started using them that there became problems. BB was struggling with his current regime and I suggested a tool that could give him insight ... Nothing more nothing less.

TheReverend
06-29-2009, 01:29 PM
From the founder... Awesome.

Lyle McDonald is a Dan Duchaine wanna-be (with a physical education degree no less). I officially had more education in Biology, chemistry, and nutrition half way through my Sophmore year in college... He is the founder of nothing.

They are a tool Rev... a tool that has worked in the lab and in the diabetic communities for a very long time. It wasn't until the mensa types that populate the dieting and Bodybuilder forums started using them that there became problems. BB was struggling with his current regime and I suggested a tool that could give him insight ... Nothing more nothing less.

That's well and good. I still think it's inherently obvious when you're in ketosis that a strip is completely unnecessary. All I'm saying.

BroncoBuff
06-29-2009, 01:44 PM
Best.Feud.Ever .... "User error my ass" ROFL!

But Rev ... don't you have a Lido deck to go to or something?

TheReverend
06-29-2009, 01:46 PM
Best.Feud.Ever .... "User error my ass" ROFL!

But Rev ... don't you have a Lido deck to go to or something?

2.5 weeks away. Was supposed to be on an airplane headed home today from AZ but my daughter gave me the puppy dog eyes so I'm staying a couple more weeks.

TheDave
06-29-2009, 01:52 PM
That's well and good. I still think it's inherently obvious when you're in ketosis that a strip is completely unnecessary. All I'm saying.

Fair enough, I just get upity when PhEd majors become "Founders"

FWIW my wife has a b.s. in kenesiology, needless to say I take point on the diet and suplementation frontiers ;D

TheReverend
06-29-2009, 02:09 PM
Fair enough, I just get upity when PhEd majors become "Founders"

FWIW my wife has a b.s. in kenesiology, needless to say I take point on the diet and suplementation frontiers ;D

Glad to see you completely agree that the strips are unnecessary.

:)

TheDave
06-29-2009, 02:19 PM
Glad to see you completely agree that the strips are unnecessary.

:)

Is that what just happened there?... I seriously need work on my "Body Building forum bull****ting techniques" ;D

TheReverend
06-29-2009, 02:27 PM
Is that what just happened there?... I seriously need work on my "Body Building forum bull****ting techniques" ;D

Me too. I'm cutting down to "six pack" weight for my cruise, so I'm back to sub-200 lbs.

TheDave
06-29-2009, 02:31 PM
Me too. I'm cutting down to "six pack" weight for my cruise, so I'm back to sub-200 lbs.

One of these days I'm going to cut up agian... I'm just very comfortable at that 10% bf range.

Considering I'm almost 40 I'm guessing I'ld have to get down to 6%-8% to see that 6-pack again.

I liked being 25 better...

TheReverend
06-29-2009, 02:33 PM
One of these days I'm going to cut up agian... I'm just very comfortable at that 10% bf range.

Considering I'm almost 40 I'm guessing I'ld have to get down to 6%-8% to see that 6-pack again.

I liked being 25 better...

I was going through all my old **** out here and showed my daughter my highschool graduation pictures and she said "Wow, you used to look really good"

Taco John
06-29-2009, 04:30 PM
I know when I'm in Kato because I feel like living in other people's sheds for days on end practicing tai chi at 2am, and waking up whenever the mood strikes.


Badum-ching...

TheReverend
06-29-2009, 04:31 PM
I know when I'm in Kato because I feel like living in other people's sheds for days on end practicing tai chi at 2am, and waking up whenever the mood strikes.


Badum-ching...

http://www.aolcdn.com/aolnews_photos/03/03/20080109092709990002

Bob's your Information Minister
06-29-2009, 09:44 PM
FYI, fat ****s, the Chiefsplanet weight loss competition comes to an end tomorrow. A bunch of the fat ****s and not-so-fat ****s, and some skinny ****s, will be reporting weights tomorrow in THIS thread:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=198776&page=46

A lot of great success stories.

Taco John
06-29-2009, 10:32 PM
Best.Feud.Ever .... "User error my ass" ROFL!

But Rev ... don't you have a Lido deck to go to or something?


I've heard that about Rev... The lido deck part...

BroncoBuff
06-29-2009, 10:34 PM
Glad to see you completely agree that the strips are unnecessary.

I don't see a need if you know your carb intake is fully restricted <20 ... It'd be like a totally celibate woman buying a pregnancy test.

Think about the psychology of it .... if you're complying with the program, what's the point in checking? Strips are for people who cheat and fudge and wanna see if it's hurting them.

TheReverend
06-30-2009, 09:42 PM
I've dropped about 25 pounds. I taped before and then again today and I know I've dropped 8-9% bodyfat. So I subtracted the bodyfat from my weight and I have 7 unaccounted for lbs.

I'm hoping a good chunk of it was water weight, but losing that much in that time I know I dropped some lean muscle too. I'm currently trying to rationalize my strength drop at the gym today as the Arizona heat wearing me down all morning. Abs, veins, and vascularity are awesome, but I feel ****ing tiny.

Screw it, once I'm done reeling in ass this summer, I'll spend the entire winter bulking pushing for 230.

TheDave
06-30-2009, 09:46 PM
I've dropped about 25 pounds. I taped before and then again today and I know I've dropped 8-9% bodyfat. So I subtracted the bodyfat from my weight and I have 7 unaccounted for lbs.

I'm hoping a good chunk of it was water weight, but losing that much in that time I know I dropped some lean muscle too. I'm currently trying to rationalize my strength drop at the gym today as the Arizona heat wearing me down all morning. Abs, veins, and vascularity are awesome, but I feel ****ing tiny.

Screw it, once I'm done reeling in ass this summer, I'll spend the entire winter bulking pushing for 230.

Screw this weight loss thread... this winter we need to start a weight gain thread ;D

TheReverend
06-30-2009, 09:48 PM
Screw this weight loss thread... this winter we need to start a weight gain thread ;D

Done and done. Mid September I'm opening it and throwing a little girl fit until one of the mods sticky it.

TheDave
06-30-2009, 09:52 PM
Done and done. Mid September I'm opening it and throwing a little girl fit until one of the mods sticky it.

I'm in... :thumbs:

Might be a good way to keep us all acountable during winter.

BroncoBuff
07-02-2009, 04:07 PM
That's it, I can't stands it no mo ....

Been on Atkins since June 2. Drank moderately maybe 6-8 days, cheated on the food part just one day, some watermelon and a hotdog bun.

I'm gonna give in to this craving and go get some Vanilla wafers ... RIGHT NOW!