Gas prices

[Florida_Bronco]

Are gas prices going up anywhere else besides Florida? For the last month or so, it seems like gas prices have been going up a few cents each week here, and they're creeping close to $2.70/gal when for awhile they were steady at under $2.08/gal.

Anyone know why they are going up? When can we expect them to go back down?

[Sassy]

3 weeks ago it hit 1.95
Now it's 2.59 here.

[Crushaholic]

OPEC has controlled the price of oil by cutting production. They made it clear they weren't happy with the low price of oil and did something about it. That's reason #567,832 to wean ourselves off foreign oil...

[Bronx33]

2.47 now and i really notice it in my pocket book (but i guess we got a war to pay for)

[smalltowngrll]

Heck, I loved it when it was $2.59...now, we are pushing $2.90 here....AGAIN! Good thing I live in a small town and nothing is over 5 miles away and I work less than a mile from where I live!

[ludo21]

1.95, 2.49, ugh!! I hate u guys!!

Solid 2.78 - 2.85 here.

It will be 3.00 or over by summer. Why dont they just come out and say it,

"WERE THERE FOR OIL!!!!" now go get it and lower my gas prices!!!

[Sassy]

1.95, 2.49, ugh!! I hate u guys!!

Solid 2.78 - 2.85 here.

It will be 3.00 or over by summer. Why dont they just come out and say it,

"WERE THERE FOR OIL!!!!" now go get it and lower my gas prices!!!

But Ludo...it's nice there all year around. You can walk ;D

[ludo21]

But Ludo...it's nice there all year around. You can walk ;D

well i did just jump in the pool....... ;D

110 + degrees in the summer is not quite "nice" tho :rofl:

[Sassy]

So now you're complaining! LOL!

[smalltowngrll]

well i did just jump in the pool....... ;D

110 + degrees in the summer is not quite "nice" tho :rofl:


Precisely why I left! NOT nice...freaking an OVEN!! :sunshine:

[ludo21]

Precisely why I left! NOT nice...freaking an OVEN!! :sunshine:


... but its a "Dry" heat.....

i hate those people :giggle:

[ICON]

3.15 in ORANGE COUNTY cal

[BigPlayShay]

Ethanol has been 1.99 for about a year :wiggle:

[broncolife]

$3.50 for premium in Escondido,CA

[Sassy]

Ethanol has been 1.99 for about a year :wiggle:

YEah...until you have to replace your engine.

[Broncobuddy7]

I live in Southern Cali so I'm paying 3.40 a gallon. It costs me 45.00 everytime I fill up.

[smalltowngrll]

... but its a "Dry" heat.....

i hate those people :giggle:


Oh, yeah,...those people that use that line forgot about July through September. ROFL!

The only thing I really miss are the awesome lightening storms! We used to drive partway up the mountain and park off the side overlooking the city and watch the lightening storms. Such an awesome scene!!

Ok, sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread! Carry on..... :curtsey: ;)

[BMF Bronco]

2.56 in the Bozo, and to think, I get to take my 17/mile rig to denver tomorrow, oh joy?

[BroncoBen]

So now you're complaining! LOL!

You got that right.... It was just a few weeks ago we were 'happy' to be paying $2.49 a gallon.

I used to work in the oil fields in the 80's, and belive me it doesn't cost any more today to pull and refine the oil then it did back then.

Same technology... same procedures... just that the oil men want to make more profit and we are willing to pay.

[sirhcyennek81]

You got that right.... It was just a few weeks ago we were 'happy' to be paying $2.49 a gallon.

I used to work in the oil fields in the 80's, and belive me it doesn't cost any more today to pull and refine the oil then it did back then.

Same technology... same procedures... just that the oil men want to make more profit and we are willing to pay.


We also were not competing with China and India for the same resources. Competition creates demand which drives up the price. You cant blame the "oil men" for that.


:Broncos:

[watermock]

It's irrespective of how much it costs to retrieve oil, it's controled by the commodity board. Speculators drove and drove the contract prices up, then sold short letting the little guy take the brunt of the fall.

Now that they have cleaned out the little fish, it's time to start driving the price up again.

While north slope oil costs in excess of 30 dollars per barrel, middle eastern oil is pumped out at around 4 bucks a barrel. We need to get nuclear kickstarted and get the tar sands up and running in canada...or take over Mexico.

[sirhcyennek81]

2.66 in Florence.


:Broncos:

[Garcia Bronco]

It's an effing joke

[OrangeShadow]

it was around 2.19 here a month ago now its up around 2.50

[RkyMtnThunder]

... but its a "Dry" heat.....

i hate those people :giggle:

I live in Arizona and I love the heat. Apparently so do the ladies cause the hotter the state - the hotter the women. No baggy sweaters to hide behind! lol

Anyway back on track - paid $2.95 for premium this morning.

PS - I go to my local Fry's grocery store for gasoline. Fry's is owned by Kroger, same as King Soopers - are newer King Soopers stores also selling gas these days?

[Sassy]

You got that right.... It was just a few weeks ago we were 'happy' to be paying $2.49 a gallon.

I used to work in the oil fields in the 80's, and belive me it doesn't cost any more today to pull and refine the oil then it did back then.

Same technology... same procedures... just that the oil men want to make more profit and we are willing to pay.

I was talking about Ludo complaining about the heat! LOL!

Anyway...My dad shall we say "dabbles" in oil...has his own company...I know what it cost to drill (about 2-3 million a hole...and that's IF you can get a rig) ...and that's if the equipment doesn't break down regardless of if the hole is dry or not. So...that's BS! Equipment is different than back then...just look at pics of it!

Besides...a lot of the price of gas is taxes!

[Garcia Bronco]

I know that krogers are

[Garcia Bronco]

I was talking about Ludo complaining about the heat! LOL!

Anyway...My dad shall we say "dabbles" in oil...has his own company...I know what it cost to drill...and that's if the equipment doesn't break down regardless of if the hole is dry or not. So...that's BS! Equipment is different than back then...just look at pics of it!

Oil Baron huh?

How you doin"? Hilarious!

[Sassy]

Oil Baron huh?

How you doin"? Hilarious!

Sorry Garcia...Im taken ;D

[ColoradoDarin]

Anyone who thinks that gas prices are manipulated needs only to remember 1998. We were paying under $1 a gallon. Anyone think they were manipulating prices then? No. There goes the theory that the oil companies set the prices because if they did, prices would never go down, only up.

The reason people complain about gas prices is because a) they are volatile, b) we fill up every week and c) you see the price every time you drive by a station {and d) news people are stupid and it makes a 'story'}.

Commodity prices are driven from supply and demand.

[Garcia Bronco]

Sorry Garcia...Im taken ;D

LOL

[Sassy]

OPEC has controlled the price of oil by cutting production. They made it clear they weren't happy with the low price of oil and did something about it. That's reason #567,832 to wean ourselves off foreign oil...

But see...that's part of it. The cost to put a rig on a well and drill it is 2-3 million and that's without any problems and that's even IF the hole is dry.

[anthonypacino]

The reason I heard for the price increase is the companies are preparing their "summer blend" of gas with the extra additives and detergents and that is why it is costing more. blah blah...my experiments on the water powered engine continue in the garage.

[anthonypacino]

But see...that's part of it. The cost to put a rig on a well and drill it is 2-3 million and that's without any problems and that's even IF the hole is dry.

For small drillers I agree with you but the big boys wipe their a$$ with 2-3 million, remember when they report their PROFITS into the billions the overhead such as drills, payroll, equipment have already been accounted for.

[ColoradoDarin]

For small drillers I agree with you but the big boys wipe their a$$ with 2-3 million, remember when they report their PROFITS into the billions the overhead such as drills, payroll, equipment have already been accounted for.

And what's their margin? Just because they are big doesn't mean that they are raking in larger than normal profits (percentage-wise).

[Sassy]

And what's their margin? Just because they are big doesn't mean that they are raking in larger than normal profits (percentage-wise).

Yep!

[watermock]

The reason I heard for the price increase is the companies are preparing their "summer blend" of gas with the extra additives and detergents and that is why it is costing more. blah blah...my experiments on the water powered engine continue in the garage.

Commodity prices have alot more to do with the speculators than supply and demand. Supply is constant. Demand has gone up but that's only half the equation. The saddest thing is that while Communist China continues to undercut good here, they are taking more and more oil to drive their industries, and we keep buyiing their goods.

Pachino also make a valid point...we have something like 27 different blends of gasoline, many for the nuts and fruitcakes in california. Each blend needs it's own storage, and it's own "batch" so to speak. The emmisions advantages from "California Blend" is so minute as to be laughable, yet they think they are being gouged. It's like buying Perrier instead of tap water. That's why gas is higher, plus I believe they have it taxed to the point of absurdity.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Buy a hybrid

[BABronco]

6 weeks ago it was 1.89 today it is 2.47 ... reason its so cheap cause I live in bartlesville aka the captial of phillips.

[Los Broncos]

i go out of my way to get it cheaper, i go about ten miles to pay 2.99 per.

[watermock]

It takes quite awhile to even recoup the extra cost of a hybrid. It depends on the type of driving as well. In Japan, where is super congested, I saw it might improve economy almost 50%. Highway cruising, not so much.

I talked to an old boy who had a new Prius at length outside a Hardees. Neato cars, but 28K, as much as a Camry. Much roomier than they look for some reason tho. Odd looking but very 21's century looking Toyota. Really big doors for a relatively small car. I couldn't believe the interior room He said he got 60 MPG in it from Sioux Falls to my town, about 100 miles. It's best feature is how they use the braking to turn a generator to help charge the batteries. Instead of being generated as heat by disc pads, it's put into the batteries. Probably reduces brake wear as well.

[Sassy]

Lynch...Not cheaper then...you aren't considering wear/tear on your car and your time.

[Los Broncos]

Lynch...Not cheaper then...you aren't considering wear/tear on your car and your time.

i try not too but, its like 3.20 around where i live, i just make up an excuse to go out that way, like dinner or something, lol.

[watermock]

i go out of my way to get it cheaper, i go about ten miles to pay 2.99 per.

Rather comical. so assuming you are driving 20 miles, besides extra miles on the car in depreciation, assuming your car get even 30 miles a gallon, you just spent 1.50 to save a quarterX say, 12, or Two two dollars fifty cents.

[Sassy]

Rather comical. so assuming you are driving 20 miles, besides extra miles on the car in depreciation, assuming your car get even 30 miles a gallon, you just spent 1.50 to save a quarter.

Plus in his case, dinner ;D!

I don't usually go out of my way to get stuff at Target either since it's all the way across town...unless I have a ton of junk to get. Otherwise, it's almost cheaper to buy it at the grocery store down the street.

[Jana®]

I'm the Assistant Manager at a Phillips66 in Denver. Gas at my station is 2.53 a gallon for unleaded, unless it went up today. I was off work :D

[watermock]

Plus in his case, dinner ;D!

Plus other benefits I'm assuming. ROFL! BTW, how much can he eat?:spit:

[Los Broncos]

Rather comical. so assuming you are driving 20 miles, besides extra miles on the car in depreciation, assuming your car get even 30 miles a gallon, you just spent 1.50 to save a quarterX say, 12, or Two two dollars fifty cents.

I dont fill up every day, i fill up once a week, its take about 26 bucks.

[Los Broncos]

Plus other benefits I'm assuming. ROFL! BTW, how much can he eat?:spit:

Not as much as you can drink mock.

[Sassy]

But when you do that...how much time do you spend? An hour...what's an hour of your time worth.

[Los Broncos]

But when you do that...how much time do you spend? An hour...what's an hour of your time worth.

About a half an hour, thats about two hours a month.

[Sassy]

About a half an hour, thats about two hours a month.

Just giving you crap! LOL!
I'm just saying it's not worth it...you're not saving money...in fact, you're spending more! ROFL!

[Los Broncos]

Just giving you crap! LOL!
I'm just saying it's not worth it...you're not saving money...in fact, you're spending more! ROFL!

But im driving a tercel, its only about 26 bucks to fill up, no sweat off my sack. Ha!

[watermock]

If your driving 20 miles round trip, your depreciating the vehicle as well if it's late model. That's a minimum 5 cents a mile, or a dollar as well.

[Garcia Bronco]

Let me just say that if we don't bitch about it enough...even the slightest thing won't get done about it. I can afford 40-50 beans a tank...I make a decent wage...what about somebody that doesn't....the kid making 20k? The min wage worker pulling down 25k working overtime? Even 35 bean's a tank is a day's worht of work after taxes..and you haven't even paid for insurance or vehicle tax or car payment. It's almost worth not having a car.

[Los Broncos]

If your driving 20 miles round trip, your depreciating the vehicle as well if it's late model. That's a minimum 5 cents a mile, or a dollar as well.

I know your right mock, i just can help myself.

[smalltowngrll]

Buy a hybrid

By most estimates, it would take 4-5 years to make up the difference in price of the vehicle in gas savings. You buy a hybrid not for savings but for environmental reasons.

[dragondawg]

over 3 buckes here in california, 4 in the rich areas

[chadta]

you guys make me laugh, i am canadian, we are a net oil producing nation, meaning we produce more oil then we use per day, yet we pay more for it then you guys, yet you seem to think its your god givin right to have cheap gas, then go find some of your own and stop relying on other people to do it for you, as long as other people control your supply you will pay whatever they feel like charging.

either you want to be part of this free market or you dont, i dont like paying high prices any more then you guys do but i like the idea of the government stepping in and trying to control prices alot less, theyve tried that it dosent work.

[Garcia Bronco]

you guys make me laugh, i am canadian, we are a net oil producing nation, meaning we produce more oil then we use per day, yet we pay more for it then you guys, yet you seem to think its your god givin right to have cheap gas, then go find some of your own and stop relying on other people to do it for you, as long as other people control your supply you will pay whatever they feel like charging.

either you want to be part of this free market or you dont, i dont like paying high prices any more then you guys do but i like the idea of the government stepping in and trying to control prices alot less, theyve tried that it dosent work.

You can complain for cheaper gas too. I don't have a problem paying market value...it's the constant BS flux in price, lack of oversight, and the worst part is the BS taxes on it.

[cbs1177]

It is $2.43/gallon on the highway here in good ole West Memphis, AR but can be had for less in some places like 10cents off a gallon at krogers and stuff like that.

[mhgaffney]

In just the last few days there was a $5 spike in the price of a barrel of crude. They say it's due to jitters about the situation in the Gulf.

Be assured if speculators think the war with Iran is going to happen -- it will spike a lot higher.

If the war happens we could see it go to $100-200 /barrel -- off the charts.

Call your Congressman and Senator. Tell them to impeach GW Bush. That's the smartest move we can make to prevent a world war and also to bring the price of gas back down.

[Blueflame]

Gas prices here have been steadily rising at a rate of a nickel to a dime every week. The lowest we got was around $2.15/gallon and now it's back up to about $2.70... and that's for regular unleaded.

[Cito Pelon]

Something that irritates me is I'm looking for a top-end sport sedan, and they all "require" Premium fuel. It's the compression ratio. All of them are high compression. Talk about a premium sedan, jeez that really means something. A gotdang Camry runs on regular. A Lexus runs on premium. Same with Acura vs. Honda; Infiniti vs. Nissan; Lincoln vs. Ford.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

If you can afford a hybrid vehicle, you should all get one. Aside from doing something good for the environment (if everyone drove a hybrid, it would be the equivilant of taking 100,000,000 cars off the road. I'm a proud owner of a civic hybrid and, even living in LA, where I'm sitting in traffic most of the time, i get incredible milage. With the huge tax break, the car became affordable to me, though im not sure how much longer the break will exist. Regardless, i love the car, have had zero trouble with it and I've saved a ton on gas.

[Garcia Bronco]

I thought they yanked the tax break...anybody know for sure?

[SonOfLe-loLang]

They yanked the tax break on the prius because enough people have purchased. It still exists for others, to varying degrees. I got a 2100 dollar one on my civic (i bought it last year), but the break is probably less now.

[Florida_Bronco]

Something that irritates me is I'm looking for a top-end sport sedan, and they all "require" Premium fuel. It's the compression ratio. All of them are high compression. Talk about a premium sedan, jeez that really means something. A gotdang Camry runs on regular. A Lexus runs on premium. Same with Acura vs. Honda; Infiniti vs. Nissan; Lincoln vs. Ford.

If you want premium performance you gotta pay for premium fuel...unless you own an American performance car, they usually get by on 87 octane. :approve:

[chrisp]

You guys kill me.....

in the UK we pay approx £0.90 per litre - That's about $1.77

There are approx 3.785 litres to a US liquid gallon

Therefore we pay about $6.69 per gallon in the UK

so basically you should all STOP COMPLAINING!!! (and send me some money.. :wiggle: )

BTW its mainly due to taxes - its open season on the car here thanks to the green lobby so we've been getting a penny or two of tax added a litre of fuel almost every year since the late 80s....

[freak6]

I am forced to commute 120 miles a day because of George Bush.

I was told I would be stayiing in SD for the next 14 mos. But thanks to his stupid war that he totally fkd up, I am now driving to Camp Pen everyday, from SD, and the Govt wont pay to move me because its within 50 miles, so they say. BS.

Bush just took $400 a month from me, and gave it to the oil companies...nice.

Support the troops!

lmfao

[Garcia Bronco]

I am forced to commute 120 miles a day because of George Bush.

I was told I would be stayiing in SD for the next 14 mos. But thanks to his stupid war that he totally fkd up, I am now driving to Camp Pen everyday, from SD, and the Govt wont pay to move me because its within 50 miles, so they say. BS.

Bush just took $400 a month from me, and gave it to the oil companies...nice.

Support the troops!

lmfao
can you atleast write off the mileage?

[Hogan11]

1.95, 2.49, ugh!! I hate u guys!!

Solid 2.78 - 2.85 here.

It will be 3.00 or over by summer. Why dont they just come out and say it,

"WERE THERE FOR OIL!!!!" now go get it and lower my gas prices!!!

By summer? They're talking within three weeks here for the $3.00 per gallon thing.

BTW, I wish that we were indeed there for the oil....at least we'd be there for something tangible. I have zero faith in the Iraqi's.

Anyways, it's $2.82 here and rising......been rising since the day I went back to driving 80 miles a day to work and back, so naturally, I'm thrilled with the way things are going. ::)

[Popcorn Sutton]

For or against drilling in Alaska and the Gulf of Mexico?

I'm for. Sure the big oil rigs are the prettiest looking things but it's better than depending on the middle east.

I personally would pay more or make arrangements to carpool if it meant we get our azzes out of the middle east.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

For or against drilling in Alaska and the Gulf of Mexico?

I'm for. Sure the big oil rigs are the prettiest looking things but it's better than depending on the middle east.

I personally would pay more or make arrangements to carpool if it meant we get our azzes out of the middle east.What's the point (for oil anyway)? We have only a small percentage of the world's reserves and no matter how many holes we blow into the earth and Gulf it will barely make a dent in our oil consumption needs.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Drilling, drilling, drilling is NOT the answer. The answer is finally coming up with an alternative energy source. If BRAZIL can somehow do it (they are on sugar ethanol now i believe) then America is capable too. One thing that is lost on today's america that isn't on past generations is the need for sacrafice. If America doesn't start sacraficing, our deficit will only get higher and our superpower status will only slip more. Perhaps its the socialist in me talking, but I'm sick and tired of everyone hoarding their own money and not realizing that the greater good is what our country currently needs. With this in mind, America should embrace a plan that implements alternative sources (perhaps, electrical, wind energy, solar). Will this cost more, YES, will this raise taxes, YES, but will this put America at the forefront in the development of alternative energy. Absolutely. With global warming a problem mixed with our situation in the middle east, America will become the envy of the world, and power, once again if we rush and sacrafice to make this work. If we don't, i fear to see where we are in 50 years. And if you think you're invincible because all of your life America has been the main superpower, think again.

[Sassy]

I thought ethanol was hard on car engines.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I thought ethanol was hard on car engines.Nope.

[BMF Bronco]

not if that's what they're designed to use.

[ColoradoDarin]

If you can afford a hybrid vehicle, you should all get one. Aside from doing something good for the environment (if everyone drove a hybrid, it would be the equivilant of taking 100,000,000 cars off the road. I'm a proud owner of a civic hybrid and, even living in LA, where I'm sitting in traffic most of the time, i get incredible milage. With the huge tax break, the car became affordable to me, though im not sure how much longer the break will exist. Regardless, i love the car, have had zero trouble with it and I've saved a ton on gas.

Hybrid cars are NOT, I repeat NOT good the the environment. Yes, they get better gas mileage, but that is at a cost. You think the batteries in hybrids are good for the environment? Think hazardous waste disposal. Buying a Corolla is much better than buying a Prius for the environment.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Hybrid cars are NOT, I repeat NOT good the the environment. Yes, they get better gas mileage, but that is at a cost. You think the batteries in hybrids are good for the environment? Think hazardous waste disposal. Buying a Corolla is much better than buying a Prius for the environment.
And? New battery technology is improving by leaps and bounds yearly.

To offset perceived reliability problems (http://www.physorg.com/news10031.html), makers are offering strong guarantees: The Honda Insight has an eight-year/80,000-mile warranty on most of the power train, including batteries, and a three-year/36,000-mile warranty on the rest of the car. The Toyota Prius has an eight-year/100,000-mile warranty on the battery and hybrid systems and a three-year/36,000-mile warranty on everything else.

The motors and batteries in these cars do not require maintenance over the life of the vehicle. The engine doesn't need any more maintenance than in any other car. Because hybrids have regenerative braking, brake pads may even last longer than those in normal cars.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Hybrid cars are NOT, I repeat NOT good the the environment. Yes, they get better gas mileage, but that is at a cost. You think the batteries in hybrids are good for the environment? Think hazardous waste disposal. Buying a Corolla is much better than buying a Prius for the environment.

That's actually not true. Yes, the battery disposal is something they are working on, but that doesn't outweigh the low emissions of a hybrid. That's like the rightwingers who claim that electric cars wont be as good for the environment because they will burn more coal. C'mon.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

<table style="font-family: Verdana; text-align: center; font-size: 10pt;" bgcolor="#99ff99" border="4" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td>Vehicle Brand</td> <td colspan="2">Hybrid Model</td> <td colspan="2">Standard Model</td> </tr> <tr><td> </td><td>City</td><td>Highway</td><td>City</td><td>Highway</td></tr> <tr><td align="left">Ford Escape Hybrid</td><td>36</td><td>31</td><td>22</td><td>26</td></tr> <tr><td align="left">Lexus RX 400h Hybrid</td><td>31</td><td>27</td><td>19</td><td>25</td></tr> <tr><td align="left">Lexus GS 450h Hybrid</td><td>N/A Yet</td><td>N/A Yet</td><td>18</td><td>25</td></tr> <tr><td align="left">Honda Accord Hybrid</td><td>29</td><td>37</td><td>20</td><td>29</td></tr> <tr><td align="left">Honda Civic Hybrid</td><td>49</td><td>51</td><td>30</td><td>40</td></tr> <tr><td align="left">Honda Insight Hybrid</td><td>57</td><td>56</td><td bgcolor="#000000">
</td><td bgcolor="#000000">
</td></tr> <tr><td align="left">2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid</td><td>N/A Yet</td><td>N/A Yet</td><td>24</td><td>34</td></tr> <tr><td align="left">Toyota Highlander Hybrid</td><td>33</td><td>28</td><td>19</td><td>25</td></tr> <tr><td align="left">Toyota Prius Hybrid</td><td>60</td><td>51</td><td bgcolor="#000000">
</td></tr></tbody></table>
Pros and Cons Of Owning Hybrid Cars (http://www.carbuyingtips.com/hybrid-cars.htm)

Pros Of Owning Hybrid Cars:


Hybrid vehicles run cleaner. Toyota claims their cars are UP TO 80% cleaner than conventional gas engines
Hybrid cars are environmentally friendlier than conventional gas engine cars, and have lower emissions
You typically get 8 year warranties on the hybrid vehicle system
Tax deductions/credits for "Clean Fuel Property". In 2006 tax credit is a dollar for dollar tax reduction
If enough people drive hybrids responsibly, our oil consumption will drop, causing OPEC to lower prices, giving you more spending cash
If most of your driving is stop and go city traffic at slow speeds, you'll see a big benefit to owning a hybrid
In some states, driving a hybrid vehicle earns you the perk of being a single occupant vehicle in the HOV lane, no more tickets! Yeah, now we're talking! Cons Of Owning Hybrid Cars:


If most of your driving is on open highway at high speeds, you'll see little benefit to owning a hybrid
Some high demand hybrids have waiting lists and often sell for premiums over window sticker price
Hybrid cars and Hybrid SUVs can cost a few thousand more than their conventional gas engine counterparts
Gas savings can take years to recoup the additional cost of buying a hybrid vehicle
You will not achieve the claimed EPA fuel economy estimates for hybrid cars or conventional gas cars for that matter EPA Fuel Economy Estimates For Hybrid Cars

You will not achieve the claimed EPA fuel economy estimates, because EPA estimates are antiquated 1985 standards that don't reflect real world driving conditions, more specifically, my driving conditions. EPA estimates assume slow acceleration on level roads, no AC, and highway driving below 60 MPH. Yeah right. The EPA is lobbying to update the standard, because they say most of us actually get 15%-20% less mileage than the estimates, leading to a false sense of security about our fuel economy. Other factors contribute to you falling short of the EPA glory such as schlepping lots of cargo across town on short trips over hilly terrain with the A/C on in July. Notice in the table below how hybrid cars get more mileage in the city than on the highway, the opposite of gas only cars. This is because in city driving the electric motor runs more and the gas engine runs less.




Hybrid Vehicle Tax Credits and Deductions:

First of all, if you are subject to Alternative Minimum Tax, you can't take advantage of tax credits for your hybrid car or truck. Sorry dude, it stinks being rich. For the tax year 2005 the IRS gave you a $2000 tax deduction, where you just added the allowable deduction in with your other itemized deductions. Since this was only a deduction, you could only get back 60% to 70% of the $2000. But in 2006, the IRS changed it from a deduction to an actual dollar for dollar tax credit. In Publication 535 Section 12 (http://www.irs.gov/publications/p535/ch12.html) they instructed you to simply write in the tax credit amount on line 35 of your Form 1040, and write the words "Clean Fuel" on the dotted line next to it. Of course you should always check the latest hybrid news and tax considerations on the IRS site and consult your CPA, do not use our site as tax advice.

[ColoradoDarin]

That's actually not true. Yes, the battery disposal is something they are working on, but that doesn't outweigh the low emissions of a hybrid. That's like the rightwingers who claim that electric cars wont be as good for the environment because they will burn more coal. C'mon.

Well, not just the disposal, but it's also the mining of the nickel for the batteries. Several thousand of these on the road won't do environmental damage, but replacing all of the cars and trucks in the US with hybrids would. Mining is one of the most environmentally damaging activities you can do.

Also, low emissions is different than "environmentally friendly" (direct impact vs. indirect)

[ColoradoDarin]

Toyota Prius Hybrid 60 51


They recently lowered the Prius' MPG - at least the highway portion to 45 (previous test was conducted at 55 mph and new test was a more realistic 80 mph).

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Well, not just the disposal, but it's also the mining of the nickel for the batteries. Several thousand of these on the road won't do environmental damage, but replacing all of the cars and trucks in the US with hybrids would. Mining is one of the most environmentally damaging activities you can do.

Also, low emissions is different than "environmentally friendly" (direct impact vs. indirect)

But while this is true, this is the typical repuiblican (not sure if you are) excuse for the status quo. It's like trying to eliminate stem cell because the effects won't be seen for 15 years. There will be some bumps in the road, but they are necessary for the eventual greater good. We need to get off oil for political, financial, and environmental reasons. Hybrids arent the final answer, but its the step in the right direction.

[ColoradoDarin]

And? New battery technology is improving by leaps and bounds yearly.

And what does that have to do with disposal? You know, when the car is no longer on the road. I made no comment about battery replacement (though that is a concern for the earlier models)

[Bronco_Beerslug]

They recently lowered the Prius' MPG - at least the highway portion to 45 (previous test was conducted at 55 mph and new test was a more realistic 80 mph).
More realistic 80 MPH???

All MPH estimates are inflated and haven't changed (standards) since '85.

And what does that have to do with disposal? You know, when the car is no longer on the road. I made no comment about battery replacement (though that is a concern for the earlier models)We'll figure out the relatively small battery disposal challenge. But will we ever figure out the HUGE problem that relying on foreign oils is for us?

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Out of my civic hybrid, i get like 37 city, 49 highway. Not exactly the 49/50, but its not like any cars ever reach what the company says. If i was reallllly paying attention to my speeds, gears, etc...i could probably get a few more miles out of both.

[ColoradoDarin]

But while this is true, this is the typical repuiblican (not sure if you are) excuse for the status quo. It's like trying to eliminate stem cell because the effects won't be seen for 15 years. There will be some bumps in the road, but they are necessary for the eventual greater good. We need to get off oil for political, financial, and environmental reasons. Hybrids arent the final answer, but its the step in the right direction.

Yes, I'm Republican, but please note that I'm not arguing for the status quo. I'd like some alternative fuels, though corn ethanol is awful, switchgrass ethanol and sugar ethanol are much better, but ADM and the corn lobby is very strong in this country. I'm not big on propane or natural gas vehicles either. BioDiesel is good, but I don't know how that can be expanded nationwide, seems more of a niche product. High gas prices don't bother me much (partially because I work from home and only put about 3000 miles on my vehicle per year) and I'd like to see a $1 additional gas tax.

And what's with the non-sequitur about stem-cells? You talking about adult stem cells? Umbilical cord stem cells? Embryonic stem-cells? No one has tried to "eliminate stem cells," in fact this President and the Republican congress were the first to provide federal funding for embryonic stem-cells, also there is no "ban" on stem-cell research in this country.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Yes, I'm Republican, but please note that I'm not arguing for the status quo. I'd like some alternative fuels, though corn ethanol is awful, switchgrass ethanol and sugar ethanol are much better, but ADM and the corn lobby is very strong in this country. I'm not big on propane or natural gas vehicles either. BioDiesel is good, but I don't know how that can be expanded nationwide, seems more of a niche product. High gas prices don't bother me much (partially because I work from home and only put about 3000 miles on my vehicle per year) and I'd like to see a $1 additional gas tax.

And what's with the non-sequitur about stem-cells? You talking about adult stem cells? Umbilical cord stem cells? Embryonic stem-cells? No one has tried to "eliminate stem cells," in fact this President and the Republican congress were the first to provide federal funding for embryonic stem-cells, also there is no "ban" on stem-cell research in this country.


I know there isn't a ban, but there is a lack of funding because of right to lifers..which i find appalling, but thats my own personal belief.

I do have a friend who works for a biodiesel company and he seems pretty optimistic about its possibilities, but im not sure. I still think the future might be with wind/solar energy. I know it's expensive, but thats why americans have to pony up and make a small financial sacrafice for the good of the country. But then again, i'm only starting to study up on this stuff, so i don't have a great grasp on it yet. All i know is that SOME sort of alternative fuel needs to happen..and not hydrogen because that's just a carrot

[ColoradoDarin]

More realistic 80 MPH???

All MPH estimates are inflated and haven't changed (standards) since '85.

They are changing that this year, I'm just repeating what I read (http://forums.motortrend.com/70/1086266/the-general-forum/would-you-buy-a-prius-that-gets-only-45-mpg-in-tow/index.html), I'll quote it for you:

WASHINGTON -- Will a Toyota Prius that's rated at 45 mpg in the city be as popular as the ones that were said to get 60 mpg?

The feds' new way of estimating how far cars and trucks go on a gallon of fuel will give Toyota a chance to find out.

In 2002, the environmental group Bluewater Network petitioned for changes in the EPA's decades-old method of estimating fuel economy. The group wanted estimates that better reflect what drivers get in real-world conditions.

When the EPA made its new method official last week, it warned that most vehicles will have lower estimates than before. But gasoline-electric hybrids will likely go down the most -- as much as 30 percent.

"If a car gets 45 miles per gallon, that's still pretty spectacular," said Mantill Williams, spokesman for AAA, the motorists' association. AAA supported the EPA revisions.

Williams and others say car buyers will know to make comparisons only among vehicles that go on sale after the changes take effect.

Most of the changes are effective with the 2008 model year, which could begin as early as next month. The rules also require, for the first time, that automakers put mileage labels on the largest light trucks -- those between 8,500 and 10,000 pounds gross weight -- beginning in the 2011 model year.

Ming-Jou Chen, a Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc. spokeswoman, said her company expects customers to understand that the technology in the Prius hasn't changed, and its marketing will not be revised.

The EPA changes do not affect federal fuel economy standards.

Officials at Bluewater Network, who sought the EPA changes to encourage people to buy more fuel-efficient vehicles, are not worried about depressing the sales of hybrids, said Danielle Fugere, Bluewater's global warming campaign director.

We'll figure out the relatively small battery disposal challenge. But will we ever figure out the HUGE problem that relying on foreign oils is for us?
I don't get what you are looking for here? I'm not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that hybrids aren't the perfect solution and everything will be bubblegum, unicorns and rainbows if we would all just switch to hybrids.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

They are changing that this year, I'm just repeating what I read (http://forums.motortrend.com/70/1086266/the-general-forum/would-you-buy-a-prius-that-gets-only-45-mpg-in-tow/index.html), I'll quote it for you:




I don't get what you are looking for here? I'm not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that hybrids aren't the perfect solution and everything will be bubblegum, unicorns and rainbows if we would all just switch to hybrids.



I agree hybrids arent the answer. But its a stepping stone. Not only that, buying them increases the voice of people who believe that something needs to be done. It's as much a statement as it is functional

[ColoradoDarin]

I do have a friend who works for a biodiesel company and he seems pretty optimistic about its possibilities, but im not sure. I still think the future might be with wind/solar energy. I know it's expensive, but thats why americans have to pony up and make a small financial sacrafice for the good of the country. But then again, i'm only starting to study up on this stuff, so i don't have a great grasp on it yet. All i know is that SOME sort of alternative fuel needs to happen..and not hydrogen because that's just a carrot

I don't know too much about BioDiesel either, to me it seems like a great product, but I just don't see how it could be mass produced (pleading ignorance here).

I agree hybrids arent the answer. But its a stepping stone. Not only that, buying them increases the voice of people who believe that something needs to be done. It's as much a statement as it is functional

Oh I absolutely agree on that point, that and I'd also like to see a bit more nuclear power in this country too.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I don't know too much about BioDiesel either, to me it seems like a great product, but I just don't see how it could be mass produced (pleading ignorance here).



Oh I absolutely agree on that point, that and I'd also like to see a bit more nuclear power in this country too.

I don't know enough about nuke power, though i know the conversation is polarizing. But judging by today's political atmosphere, don't see it happening.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Oh I absolutely agree on that point, that and I'd also like to see a bit more nuclear power in this country too.
And you're complaining about battery disposal?

[Popcorn Sutton]

:hitself:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_oil_con-energy-oil-consumption

[Meck77]

you guys make me laugh, i am canadian,

They make me laugh and I'm American. You see we Americans like to complain about everything. It's become the American way. I have family in Eastern Europe that don't even have cars and they walk 5 or more miles per day and never complain.

I think we'd be better off if gas was to hit $7.00 a gallon. Maybe then we'd actually see some bad habits change.

I don't know gas prices just don't effect me that much. I go two weeks between filling up so a price swing of 50 cents/gallon here or there just doesn't phase me. It effects my ability to get the bus to away games but heck it's cheaper for me to just fly anyway. No big deal.

Chadta you are the guy who made those nuclear meatballs in Buffalo aren't you? I want that recipe. I'll throw some of your secret sauce in my tank. I bet I could average 189 mpg with that stuff.Ha!

[ColoradoDarin]

:hitself:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_oil_con-energy-oil-consumption

#211 Niue: 20 barrels per day

Hilarious!

[Garcia Bronco]

Tire pressure can effect MPG as well as well as tire size. Mine says 17/21....BS..the BF AT tires on there and with a 15 gallon tank...I get about 260-290 a tank

[Jetmeck]

Market value my ass. Excessive refining profit margins by AMERICAN oil companies is why we are being bent over.

If you want to blame oil prices for the excessive cost of gas...think again. Exxon for example passes along the higher cost of a barrel of oil to us...so why is there profit margins at record levels ? If they are just passing along
the higher cost then where is all their excessive profit coming from ? REFINING

Put two more ex oil men in there again...BRILLIANT

To those that say we shouldn't bitch....your crazy and just too passive. Our own people are doing this to us.

Those other countries paying have nothing to do with the US. Your gas taxes are higher so ours should be too. BS

You produce more oil than you use and yet pay more for gas than the US. Buddy you are really getting screwed.

[Meck77]

To those that say we shouldn't b****....your crazy and just too passive. Our own people are doing this to us..

Pissing and moaning on a messageboard accomplishes well NOTHING. How many of those people actually complaining on here actually do something? What is that you do JetMeck that is so proactive in making sure refining prices are justified? I'd love to hear it.

Like I said until the prices get so out of hand I don't see a damn thing changing. People like to complain when prices get to $3.00 a gallon then they gobble up gas and go on cross country road trips when it's $2.00/gallon.

[bendog]

Pissing and moaning on a messageboard accomplishes well NOTHING. How many of those people actually complaining on here actually do something? What is that you do JetMeck that is so proactive in making sure refining prices are justified? I'd love to hear it.

Like I said until the prices get so out of hand I don't see a damn thing changing. People like to complain when prices get to $3.00 a gallon then they gobble up gas and go on cross country road trips when it's $2.00/gallon.

It's still cheaper to drive my kid to NC and DC than to fly and rent a car.

But with wages and prices both going up the Fed may make this really ugly.

[RkyMtnThunder]

Even with our current gas prices - we still pay much less than what most of the world's developed nations pay for gasoline.

We also happen to choose to use more large vehicles w/ v8 engines as daily commuter vehicles than any other place in the world.

Its borderline hysterical when I hear someone who uses a Chevy Tahoe or Escalade or F150 or anything with a Hemi for their 50 mile RT work commute complaining about fuel costs.

Work trucks can claim fuel costs as business expense so there is some relief there.

But people who bought a full sized vehicle that gets fuel economy in the teens even on the highway for personal use have no room to complain. You should have thought about that before making your purchase. You made your bed, lie in it. No one wants to take accountability for their own choices or actions. And we certainly dont want to pay to clean up messes we make.

Whoever suggested more drilling in US territories is thinking we have reserves worth tapping. We dont. Clearly not worth the environmental or financial impact to begin new domestic drilling projects when we have at best a 10 yr supply.

America should do what it does best - lead the world in innovation and pioneer and develop new technologies like we used to do. That would be better money spent IMO than continuing to rely on fossil fuels and the outdated engines who use them.

It makes me ill to see other countries replacing America as visionary new technology pioneers and getting the international renown and respect that used to go to us.

While all we are doing lately is dumbing down and fattening up and whining whining whining about things we think we are entitled to. Its pathetic and embarrassing.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Even with our current gas prices - we still pay much less than what most of the world's developed nations pay for gasoline.

We also happen to choose to use more large vehicles w/ v8 engines as daily commuter vehicles than any other place in the world.

Its borderline hysterical when I hear someone who uses a Chevy Tahoe or Escalade or F150 or anything with a Hemi for their 50 mile RT work commute complaining about fuel costs.

Work trucks can claim fuel costs as business expense so there is some relief there.

But people who bought a full sized vehicle that gets fuel economy in the teens even on the highway for personal use have no room to complain. You should have thought about that before making your purchase. You made your bed, lie in it. No one wants to take accountability for their own choices or actions. And we certainly dont want to pay to clean up messes we make.

Whoever suggested more drilling in US territories is thinking we have reserves worth tapping. We dont. Clearly not worth the environmental or financial impact to begin new domestic drilling projects when we have at best a 10 yr supply.

America should do what it does best - lead the world in innovation and pioneer and develop new technologies like we used to do. That would be better money spent IMO than continuing to rely on fossil fuels and the outdated engines who use them.

It makes me ill to see other countries replacing America as visionary new technology pioneers and getting the international renown and respect that used to go to us.

While all we are doing lately is dumbing down and fattening up and whining whining whining about things we think we are entitled to. Its pathetic and embarrassing.


I agree that people who drive large vehicle simply because they are a status symbol have little right to complain. I disagree that we should be content simply because other countries pay more. Fact is, Oil companies are incredibly wealthy and make more money than they need to to sustain successful business (again the socialist in me).

Also, real change, as with anything in this country, well never come with a grass roots effort. There needs to be change on the federel level so people are left without an option. That's the only way change will occur. But will the government alienate the oil companies? Of course not, they are tied into big business (at least this current government will never change that.) America is in dire need of real change and some strong leaders who are willing to be progressive and daring. Until then, expect the status quo and guess what...America isn't on an upswing. This isn't the 1960's.

[RkyMtnThunder]

I agree that people who drive large vehicle simply because they are a status symbol have little right to complain. I disagree that we should be content simply because other countries pay more Fact is, Oil companies are incredibly wealthy and make more money than they need to to sustain successful business (again the socialist in me).

Also, real change, as with anything in this country, well never come with a grass roots effort. There needs to be change on the federel level so people are left without an option. That's the only way change will occur. But will the government alienate the oil companies? Of course not, they are tied into big business (at least this current government will never change that.) America is in dire need of real change and some strong leaders who are willing to be progressive and daring. Until then, expect the status quo and guess what...America isn't on an upswing. This isn't the 1960's.

I am not suggesting we be content because we really dont have it as bad as we think in regards to how much we pay for gas. But to keep our fuel costs in perspective.


And I wholly agree that the profit margins these big oil companies are completely excessive and it is their unquenchable greed and the Washington fat cats who let them continue the gluttony who are more responsible for the situation than Joe Public....

....Even if Joe Public is stupid enough to finance a Hummer for 72 months and then turn around and whine about fuel costs and resulted monthly budget crunch. This same a$$hole probably put low profile tires on that 4x4

[Meck77]

But people who bought a full sized vehicle that gets fuel economy in the teens even on the highway for personal use have no room to complain. You should have thought about that before making your purchase.

Great post. It usually is those people who complain the most.

I guess I'm kinda twisted but I get a kick out of people freaking out about gas prices. When I hear people complaining it's music to my ears as I know they are starting to conserve.

I like it even better when they stay home instead of jamming up the roads with their cars. Lord knows we have too many people racing up and down I-70 in the mountains here in Colorado. I'd love to see the traffic volume dwindle if gas prices doubled or even trippled. I'd also like to see how many Ski Shuttle companies popped up as a result, and the discussion about extending train service up the mountain, and ...and....and.......

Instead we have people complaining that their 10 mpg truck is too expensive to fill up like you say RkyMntThunder...

Bring on $7.00/per gallon gas. That will clear the roads! I'll ride my horse to work.:peace:

[Jana®]

Even with our current gas prices - we still pay much less than what most of the world's developed nations pay for gasoline.

We also happen to choose to use more large vehicles w/ v8 engines as daily commuter vehicles than any other place in the world.

Its borderline hysterical when I hear someone who uses a Chevy Tahoe or Escalade or F150 or anything with a Hemi for their 50 mile RT work commute complaining about fuel costs.

Work trucks can claim fuel costs as business expense so there is some relief there.

But people who bought a full sized vehicle that gets fuel economy in the teens even on the highway for personal use have no room to complain. You should have thought about that before making your purchase. You made your bed, lie in it. No one wants to take accountability for their own choices or actions. And we certainly dont want to pay to clean up messes we make.

Whoever suggested more drilling in US territories is thinking we have reserves worth tapping. We dont. Clearly not worth the environmental or financial impact to begin new domestic drilling projects when we have at best a 10 yr supply.

America should do what it does best - lead the world in innovation and pioneer and develop new technologies like we used to do. That would be better money spent IMO than continuing to rely on fossil fuels and the outdated engines who use them.

It makes me ill to see other countries replacing America as visionary new technology pioneers and getting the international renown and respect that used to go to us.

While all we are doing lately is dumbing down and fattening up and whining whining whining about things we think we are entitled to. Its pathetic and embarrassing.

AMEN and well said!

[colosilverado]

Market value my ass. Excessive refining profit margins by AMERICAN oil companies is why we are being bent over.

If you want to blame oil prices for the excessive cost of gas...think again. Exxon for example passes along the higher cost of a barrel of oil to us...so why is there profit margins at record levels ? If they are just passing along
the higher cost then where is all their excessive profit coming from ? REFINING

Put two more ex oil men in there again...BRILLIANT

To those that say we shouldn't b****....your crazy and just too passive. Our own people are doing this to us.

Those other countries paying have nothing to do with the US. Your gas taxes are higher so ours should be too. BS

You produce more oil than you use and yet pay more for gas than the US. Buddy you are really getting screwed.

The oil companies are spending a TON of freaking money on projects to increase refining capacity, researching alternate fuels, exploration, and to meet the new fuel standards.

Biodiesel is a good idea in some ways. I'm not sure that it is THE answer, but anything helps right now until there is some technology that just smokes the others and we come up with THE answer. Its gotta start somewhere. Rapeseed and algae might be the promising feedstocks, in this area anyway.

If we run cars off of water, we're in for more water shortages somewhere down the line. We have to get the environmentalists educated as to what actually is a problem and what is just a convenient place to put blame and rattle sabers. You can't build a power plant or refinery without some self-serving schmuck crying about it. These people then turn around and whine about gas prices and power prices.......
Something has to give and it will only be something that is PAINFUL to this country that brings that change. Necessity is the thing that will drive it. We haven't been hurt at all by the recent fuel price increases. People just eat out one day less a week.

[RkyMtnThunder]

Great post. It usually is those people who complain the most.

I guess I'm kinda twisted but I get a kick out of people freaking out about gas prices. When I hear people complaining it's music to my ears as I know they are starting to conserve.

I like it even better when they stay home instead of jamming up the roads with their cars. Lord knows we have too many people racing up and down I-70 in the mountains here in Colorado. I'd love to see the traffic volume dwindle if gas prices doubled or even trippled. I'd also like to see how many Ski Shuttle companies popped up as a result, and the discussion about extending train service up the mountain, and ...and....and.......

Instead we have people complaining that their 10 mpg truck is too expensive to fill up like you say RkyMntThunder...

Bring on $7.00/per gallon gas. I'll ride my horse to work.:peace:

LOL

Ya know, many of the cowboy types here in Arizona drive these kinds of vehicles. Most of them actually, as if its some kind of cowboy cultural right.

I think it would be far more appropriate for these 'cowboy up' types to use true horse power for their transportation needs. It would be better on the wallet, enviornment, as well as the whole Marlboro man image they are trying to put off.


And I am hoping the argument you just brought up will help my company allow telecommuting. They send weekly emails about air quality, promoting car pooling, etc. What about promoting telecommuting?!? Nope.

In the meantime, I will use my 4cyl commuter, get my 30+mpg on the highway and roll eyes at the folks in trucks complaining at the pump.

[Dr.5280]

"Cowboy Up" not equal to "Brain Up"

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

Are gas prices going up anywhere else besides Florida? For the last month or so, it seems like gas prices have been going up a few cents each week here, and they're creeping close to $2.70/gal when for awhile they were steady at under $2.08/gal.

Anyone know why they are going up? When can we expect them to go back down?

Here's my question. Were's the media. 2 years ago media was all over it when is was averaging 2.40.

[Arkie]

Who gives a **** about the media. They suck.

[Jetmeck]

Pissing and moaning on a messageboard accomplishes well NOTHING. How many of those people actually complaining on here actually do something? What is that you do JetMeck that is so proactive in making sure refining prices are justified? I'd love to hear it.

Like I said until the prices get so out of hand I don't see a damn thing changing. People like to complain when prices get to $3.00 a gallon then they gobble up gas and go on cross country road trips when it's $2.00/gallon.


Get a grip here. I believe in what I say and don't sit on my ass and not get involved with our government when it comes to important issues like this this that affect our economy all the way down the line.

Record oil company profits = record lobbyist contributions from big oil.

I was actively involved with Senator McCaskill's campaign both donating time and money to get rid of her predecessor. People should get involved or shut up. I am involved and if more people were things would change. Most are just passive and worried about what goes on in their little world. Voting the bums out that ignore this issue is our only recourse. Just because you cannot see results IMMEDIATELY does not mean this will not change things down the road. Passive people suck.

Sorry if you don't like my pissing and moaning about out of sight refining profits screwing up our economy. I have to believe that maybe I can get a few more people to just pick up their phone and call their senator or representative.

[maven]

Anyone know why they are going up? When can we expect them to go back down?

15 British sailors caught by Iran in the Persian Gulf. As gas prices reached a high, then profit taking happened as a result of this BS crisis.

I hope eveyrone enjoys paying higher gas prices for absolutely no reason.

[penguintheory]

$3.79/gal in Palo Alto, Calif.

Boom

[Hogan11]

It goes up 2 cents a day...everyday.

Oh, I forgot....they pay more for it overseas and "when adjusted for inflation..yadda, yadda, yadda".....yeah, all that makes me feel just so very fortunate to be paying what I am per week just to be able to go to work and back ($58 friggin dollars and rising). That's driving a little Toyota as well, we're not talking SUV here by any means...yup, just shut up, bend over and take it, rrriiiigggghhhhttttt ::)

[jossjeff]

Even with our current gas prices - we still pay much less than what most of the world's developed nations pay for gasoline.

We also happen to choose to use more large vehicles w/ v8 engines as daily commuter vehicles than any other place in the world.

Its borderline hysterical when I hear someone who uses a Chevy Tahoe or Escalade or F150 or anything with a Hemi for their 50 mile RT work commute complaining about fuel costs.

Work trucks can claim fuel costs as business expense so there is some relief there.

But people who bought a full sized vehicle that gets fuel economy in the teens even on the highway for personal use have no room to complain. You should have thought about that before making your purchase. You made your bed, lie in it. No one wants to take accountability for their own choices or actions. And we certainly dont want to pay to clean up messes we make.

Whoever suggested more drilling in US territories is thinking we have reserves worth tapping. We dont. Clearly not worth the environmental or financial impact to begin new domestic drilling projects when we have at best a 10 yr supply.

America should do what it does best - lead the world in innovation and pioneer and develop new technologies like we used to do. That would be better money spent IMO than continuing to rely on fossil fuels and the outdated engines who use them.

It makes me ill to see other countries replacing America as visionary new technology pioneers and getting the international renown and respect that used to go to us.

While all we are doing lately is dumbing down and fattening up and whining whining whining about things we think we are entitled to. Its pathetic and embarrassing.


Outstanding post.

[Sassy]

$2.79 here.

[watermock]

I always drive my Prius to press appearances, and leave the full size Hummer in the garage..

AArnold.

"Hold up, there honcho...I'm getting a trim..." :Bill Clinton at LAX.

The hypocrisy of Hollywood knows no bounds. It's classic "Do as I say, don't do what I DO."

"I'm very happy and pleased to speak here today about hydrogen, but I have to catch my private jet..."

[dbfan21]

Are gas prices going up anywhere else besides Florida? For the last month or so, it seems like gas prices have been going up a few cents each week here, and they're creeping close to $2.70/gal when for awhile they were steady at under $2.08/gal.

Anyone know why they are going up? When can we expect them to go back down?

I paid $2.99/gallon this weekend in Orlando. It costs $57 by the time I was done filling up. Fricken' rip-off!

[Los Broncos]

Now im paying 3.17 per, 27 filled her up on saturday.

[Hogan11]

I swear I'm gonna get one of them Euro foo-foo mobiles that get 45 MPG as my next car. It's no longer an issue.

[NYBronco]

2.89 in Syracuse. I adjust my spending in other areas to offset the thievery.
The higher the fuel bills the less "disposable" income I pass around. Buy what I need and live within my means.

[OrangeShadow]

2.69 here

[watermock]

Horsepower sells. My LE Corolla demo 1.6 just had 68 H.P. and managed just fine. Before they do anything, they talk about how much HP they have now.

The idea that you need a Hybrid from Leaus that kicks out 438 HP is absurd.

A 302 Mustang GT in the 80's got a little over 200 HP.

The farming operation and semi business probably uses 20 times the fuel. Have you seen me whining? I don't cry, I give solutions.

[BMF Bronco]

2.86 in Bozeman

[Hogan11]

2.89 in Syracuse.

You're lucky...it's $2.97 to the south and west of you.

[Hogan11]

It took a week and two days, but it broke the $3.00 mark today....$3.03

I'm officially in total lockdown on all unnecessary car travel.

[smalltowngrll]

It took a week and two days, but it broke the $3.00 mark today....$3.03

I'm officially in total lockdown on all unnecessary car travel.

That's it? I wish.... anywhere from $3.15 - $3.30 for the regular stuff here. Highest it's EVER been.

[Sassy]

I filled up today....$2.79.

[SJ Bronco]

$3.45 Welcome To The Yayo Baby!!

[Hogan11]

That's it? I wish.... anywhere from $3.15 - $3.30 for the regular stuff here. Highest it's EVER been.

I expect matching prices within a week or so....this past week was a bit of a fluke as they are always quick to raise them here but deathly slow in lowering them.

[Gcver2ver3]

Nothing says "LAME" like paying $70 to fill up your tank.....

[SJ Bronco]

Nothing says "LAME" like paying $70 to fill up your tank.....

try $90.... I have to haul stuff so i have a full size truck...

[NYBronco]

You're lucky...it's $2.97 to the south and west of you.

We haven't been to Syracuse in two weeks. We are heading up there this weekend and I paid $2.88 here near Baltimore this morning. New York will be over $3.00 when we pull in Friday night, I'm sure of it. The state fuel tax is among the highest in the country. We will soon be cutting our trips to NY from once every two weeks to once every three.

Just say NO to oil.

[Hogan11]

We haven't been to Syracuse in two weeks. We are heading up there this weekend and I paid $2.88 here near Baltimore this morning. New York will be over $3.00 when we pull in Friday night, I'm sure of it. The state fuel tax is among the highest in the country. We will soon be cutting our trips to NY from once every two weeks to once every three.

Just say NO to oil.

I do 80 miles roundtrip to work and back, 4 times a week now. It's the only driving I do anymore if I can help it at all. Best bet is to get it in PA before you hit the border or find a Indian Reservation without all the bullshat taxes somewhere along the way.

[NYBronco]

I do 80 miles to work and back, 4 times a week now. It's the only driving I do anymore if I can help it at all. Best bet is to get it in PA before you hit the border or find a Indian Reservation without all the bullshat taxes somewhere along the way.

We make our stop in Nuangola PA going both directions. The gas is usually 10 to 20 cents less then NY.

Fortunately my work trips are about 25 miles round trip and I can go two weeks on a tank.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Raised it 11 cents today alone to $2.79.

[Meck77]

The higher the price the closer we come to some real change. With every few cents price hike I see more and more posts about conservation, demand for change, frustration/anger etc....

If you do what you've always done you get what you've always gotten.


I suspect we'd have to get to $3.50 a gallon before the American people really started getting restless/boycotting gas guzzling cars.

My personal threshold is probably somewhere around $3.25 a gallon. At that point I'll buy a little subaru to cruise around in. The jeep can collect dust.

[Jana®]

We went up 14 cents yesterday at the station I'm Assistant Manager at. It's now 2.89 for regular unleaded.

[Moon§hiner]

We went up 14 cents yesterday at the station I'm Assistant Manager at. It's now 2.89 for regular unleaded.Ah, assistant manager....translated that means "oh good, you handle responsibility well and we are giving you a promotion and now we can blame some stuff on you!" Just kidding a little hon, but I'm not that far off base...been there done that. Back to topic, paid 2.89 for 91 octane here today in southwest Kansas.

[Jana®]

Ah, assistant manager....translated that means "oh good, you handle responsibility well and we are giving you a promotion and now we can blame some stuff on you!" Just kidding a little hon, but I'm not that far off base...been there done that. Back to topic, paid 2.89 for 91 octane here today in southwest Kansas.

Oh you are so right on target, lol. That's pretty much what it amounts to!

[Slade]

I wish gas prices were under $3.00!!!! Here in the US Virgin Islands it is $3.40!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I wish gas prices were under $3.00!!!! Here in the US Virgin Islands it is $3.40!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111$3.40 - $3.75 in some places in CA.

[Slade]

$3.40 - $3.75 in some places in CA.

OK fine, I'll stop complaining! Afterall, I would much rather be in the good 'ole USVI then Cali.

[ludo21]

Broke 3.00 here a week ago.

Last I saw 3.06...

o well. Nothing I can do but complain. Lets just nuke Iraq already and get our oil. ;D

[Broncojef]

Its about time someone somewhere breaks out the alien technology and anti-gravity devices, its out there and someday they'll bring it to the market place. I keep hoping the huge prices will keep the dudes in subarus doing 35 in a 50 while making 5 phone calls off the road but no luck so far. If the price ever gets so high to effectively keep them off the road I'll celebrate.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

OK fine, I'll stop complaining! Afterall, I would much rather be in the good 'ole USVI then Cali.So would I :thumbs:

Do you live there or just working there now?

[Blueflame]

It's gone up more than a dime a gallon here in the last 3 days.... saw a couple of stations at $3.06 and the lowest I've seen was $2.99.

So.... if Exxon was making record (windfall) profits back when the prices were like 75 cents a gallon lower, it follows that they'll just keep setting new records. Perhaps it's time to reinstate the windfall profits tax.... this increase is due to nothing but pure greed on the part of the oil companies.

[Tom H.]

I paid $2.89 today (Plano, TX). It cost me $55 last week to fill the Jeep.:(

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

Where's the media?

[maven]

Gas is cheap in America. People complaining haven't taken a trip out of it.

[Los Broncos]

3.15 per, 27 fills her up.

[BABronco]

Gas jumped up 20 cents over night. To $2.79

[chrisp]

Gas is cheap in America. People complaining haven't taken a trip out of it.

A-f**king-Men!! I posted about the cost of petrol in the UK early on in this thread and EVERYBODY ignored me and carried on wingeing....

Take your heads out of your arses ladies and gentlemen.....you are BLESSED!!

[jmz313]

A-****ing-Men!! I posted about the cost of petrol in the UK early on in this thread and EVERYBODY ignored me and carried on wingeing....

Take your heads out of your arses ladies and gentlemen.....you are BLESSED!!

We all know our gas prices are still cheaper then Europe and Canada but it's all Relative. We were used to a ballpark price and that has all drastically changed. If everyone needs equal pity we can start discussing everything by percentages. My gas has gone up 30% since late feb and 100% since 2003. silly.

[chrisp]

Well the outraged tone of my post was a little tongue-in-cheek: in the UK and europe Americans are often (fairly or otherwise) characterised as neither knowing nor caring what happens outside of their borders....

However it isn't just about relative increases or decreases: the cost in the UK is still much higher in real terms and continues to rise - that makes a bigger difference to what you can realistically do on a day to day basis.

After all, if petrol is 2-3 times the price over here then the radius from work that I have the freedom to live in is also 2-3 times smaller - there's a limit to how far you canafford to travel...

...not that anyone can afford to park a car in London so that's a moot point whereI work currently.

[bendog]

Well the outraged tone of my post was a little tongue-in-cheek: in the UK and europe Americans are often (fairly or otherwise) characterised as neither knowing nor caring what happens outside of their borders....

However it isn't just about relative increases or decreases: the cost in the UK is still much higher in real terms and continues to rise - that makes a bigger difference to what you can realistically do on a day to day basis.

After all, if petrol is 2-3 times the price over here then the radius from work that I have the freedom to live in is also 2-3 times smaller - there's a limit to how far you canafford to travel...

...not that anyone can afford to park a car in London so that's a moot point whereI work currently.

I don't know about blessed or not. I live approx 5 miles from where I work. On Saturdays, I occassionally bicycle in to get a few things done. But, there's no way to safely traverse this on a daily basis. I know one Doc who used to do it, and he was killed. Moreover, I don't like my chances even doing it on a motorbike. Plus, it's damn hot in the summer.

[Boogerboots]

However it isn't just about relative increases or decreases: the cost in the UK is still much higher in real terms and continues to rise - that makes a bigger difference to what you can realistically do on a day to day basis.

After all, if petrol is 2-3 times the price over here then the radius from work that I have the freedom to live in is also 2-3 times smaller - there's a limit to how far you canafford to travel...


And there's the rub. Sure you're paying more in Europe but you're likely not commuting as far as most do in North America. My daily commute would likely cross three (small) countries in Europe (140 km's roughly 90 miles).

But the simple fact for most everybody in Canada and much of the mid west and north west US, is that the population density is fairly sparse and you have to travel long distances just to get groceries. Not to mention that it gets freakin cold for half the year. So you need more fuel to keep your house from freezing up.

So unless somebody comes up with an economical alternative, many folks can't afford to change their lifestyles where travel and home heating are essential.

FYI, I gassed up my 'gutsy' Cavalier which cost me nearly 40 bucks. Without currency conversion it works out to $3.88 Canadian per gallon. A third of that was in taxes. That's why governments aren't complaining...What a joke!

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bal-bz.oil27apr27,0,5611899.story?coll=bal-business-headlines

And this is even a bigger joke. For anybody to say that we are getting a bargain at the pumps while companies are raking in nearly 10 billion a quarter in profits?? They are not seeing the whole picture. We are not getting a bargain... THEY ARE GOUGING ALL OF US, plain and simple.

[Sassy]

I have a 2002 Taurus and it cost me $35 bucks and I didn't even fill it up.
It was about 3/4 of a tank.

[jmz313]

Well the outraged tone of my post was a little tongue-in-cheek: in the UK and europe Americans are often (fairly or otherwise) characterised as neither knowing nor caring what happens outside of their borders....

However it isn't just about relative increases or decreases: the cost in the UK is still much higher in real terms and continues to rise - that makes a bigger difference to what you can realistically do on a day to day basis.

After all, if petrol is 2-3 times the price over here then the radius from work that I have the freedom to live in is also 2-3 times smaller - there's a limit to how far you canafford to travel...

...not that anyone can afford to park a car in London so that's a moot point whereI work currently.


At least, due to historically high gas prices due to taxes, you have a quality public transportation system as an option. I Work in washington DC and live in MD. I can find no way to benefit from the public transportation system. I still have to drive 2/3rds of my commute before I get to a reasonable start point for pub trans. At that point, the time/cost is counter productive to just driving the next 10 miles myself.

[Slade]

So would I :thumbs:

Do you live there or just working there now?

I actually trade options for a hedge fund out here...I love it here!!

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I actually trade options for a hedge fund out here...I love it here!!Very cool! I daytrade securities but have little experience with options. I have been educating myself on them (online classes @ the OCC (http://www.optionsclearing.com/default.jsp)) the last couple of weeks. Are there any tax advantages there compared to mainland U.S.? And how do you like the weather there?

[Hogan11]

And there's the rub. Sure you're paying more in Europe but you're likely not commuting as far as most do in North America. My daily commute would likely cross three (small) countries in Europe (140 km's roughly 90 miles).

But the simple fact for most everybody in Canada and much of the mid west and north west US, is that the population density is fairly sparse and you have to travel long distances just to get groceries. Not to mention that it gets freakin cold for half the year. So you need more fuel to keep your house from freezing up.

So unless somebody comes up with an economical alternative, many folks can't afford to change their lifestyles where travel and home heating are essential.

FYI, I gassed up my 'gutsy' Cavalier which cost me nearly 40 bucks. Without currency conversion it works out to $3.88 Canadian per gallon. A third of that was in taxes. That's why governments aren't complaining...What a joke!

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bal-bz.oil27apr27,0,5611899.story?coll=bal-business-headlines

And this is even a bigger joke. For anybody to say that we are getting a bargain at the pumps while companies are raking in nearly 10 billion a quarter in profits?? They are not seeing the whole picture. We are not getting a bargain... THEY ARE GOUGING ALL OF US, plain and simple.

Thank you for posting this and taking the air out of that ridiculous notion. I get so sick and tired of the "they pay more overseas" and the "When adjusted for inflation.." rationalizations for bending over and taking it with your mouth shut that I don't even find the humor in them anymore.

[BABronco]

Gas dropped 10 cents today after raising 20 yesterday.

[TailgateNut]

Gas dropped 10 cents today after raising 20 yesterday.


Preach it brother, preach it!;D

[Spider]

Well the outraged tone of my post was a little tongue-in-cheek: in the UK and europe Americans are often (fairly or otherwise) characterised as neither knowing nor caring what happens outside of their borders....

However it isn't just about relative increases or decreases: the cost in the UK is still much higher in real terms and continues to rise - that makes a bigger difference to what you can realistically do on a day to day basis.

After all, if petrol is 2-3 times the price over here then the radius from work that I have the freedom to live in is also 2-3 times smaller - there's a limit to how far you canafford to travel...

...not that anyone can afford to park a car in London so that's a moot point whereI work currently.
you dont know shít , when was the last time you put on 3,000 miles per week ?
America is alot bigger , our commutes are alot longer , not to mention our transportation industry , I drive a Rig , I get 4.5 miles to the gallon , 300 gallon capacity , I bought Diesel for 2.85 a gallon , that was cheapest I could find , So when you do the miles I do , come back and tell me the cost of fuel ........

[clarkster]

you know, it isnt the price of gas that pisses me off as much as the fact that the reason gas is expensive is so the oil companies can make 80million profits consistently. how much is enough to these assholes?
That and socialsecurity. SS is dicked and i bet if the govt officials that dont draw SS did, it would get fixed like right now. corksuckers

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The Great Oil Robbery

In case you're wondering why crude oil prices are down from last year, hanging around at about $60 a barrel, while gasoline prices have soared past $3.10/gallon nationwide, just check out the latest profit reports from the oil companies. They are at record levels.

The answer for this seeming contradiction is simple: Americans are being robbed blind by the oil industry.

Sure, the oil companies, and their PR and lobbying agency, the American Petroleum Institute, will give you all kinds of reasons for higher gasoline prices at a time of falling crude prices: problems at two refineries in Texas and Oklahoma, rising demand or whatever. But the real answer is that there is simply no competitive market in this industry.

As Tim Hamilton, a researcher and petroleum industry consultant with the Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights, observes, the oil companies all store their crude oil and refined gasoline in the same tanks, and all know exactly how much inventory each other company has, so they don't have to meet and collude on pricing in order to reap the huge rewards of deliberate supply constraints.

Says Hamilton, "Years ago, you had companies that would try to guess when the other companies were going to have supply shortfalls of gasoline in the summer. They'd ramp up their own gasoline refining and then supply the market at a lower price and eat their competitors' lunches, the same way General Motors would do if Ford had a problem on its assembly line. But today, no oil company would do that. They all benefit by keeping the supplies tight."

Hamilton says that the oil industry has in practice conspired to limit refining capacity, so that companies can keep pushing up the price of gas artificially--only they've done this without ever having to meet in secret and cut a deal, because they all have complete competitive information on each others' inventories, internal pricing, and refinery capacity.

"There's no correlation any longer between crude oil prices and gasoline prices," he insists. "Crude could drop to $10/barrel, and you could still have gasoline go to $4/gallon. All the crude oil price does is set a floor on gasoline prices."

As an indication of how much control the oil industry has over retail gasoline prices, Hamilton points to a study he did, looking at the price of gas approaching Election Day. His results are truly disturbing.

The oil industry has been a solid backer of Republicans for many years, giving 80-90 percent of its campaign contributions to GOP candidates--particularly during the two Bush terms. What Hamilton discovered is that this support hasn't just been limited to campaign contributions. In fact, the oil industry appears to have clearly tried to minimize voter anger at Republicans late during the election cycle by pushing prices at the pump down just ahead of the voting. In the period 2000-2006, Hamilton found that each non-federal election year--2001, 2003 and 2005, gasoline prices didn't decline during the month of October, but each of the election years--2000, 2002, 2004 and 2006--they fell, with the most dramatic drop coming in October 2006--a period when crude oil prices were rising sharply. Each time, gasoline prices rose again quickly right after the election was over.

"This is a set of coincidences you'd be hard-pressed to explain by anything but planning," says Hamilton. (And incidentally, it would be interesting, when Congress gets those Karl Rove emails from the Republican Party and the White House mainframe computer, to see if there are any to the American Petroleum Institute.)

The whole situation makes a joke of Bush proposals for opening up the Alaskan North Slope to more oil exploration, or for Republican calls for an easing up on environmental regulations for new refinery construction. Says Hamilton, "The price of oil produced in Alaska will be set in Saudi Arabia, and any new supply of crude from Alaska won't affect American gasoline prices in the slightest. And as for new refineries, why would any oil company want to spent $1 billon or more to add refinery capacity so they could get less money for the gasoline they're selling? There isn't enough money in the federal treasury to subsidize the building of new refinery capacity in America."

The irony here is that it is higher prices for gasoline that might eventually convince Americans to use less gasoline, and to reduce the production of greenhouse gasses. But where those higher prices in Europe come in the form of taxes, which can then be used to subsidize public transportation or retirement and healthcare programs, in the U.S. the higher prices simply go to the bottom line of the oil companies, and into the pockets of oil company shareholders, leaving public transit, retirement and healthcare programs under funded, and leaving lower-income workers stuck with higher bills to get themselves to and from work in their cars.

Until the public recognizes that the illusion of competition carefully maintained by the oil industry and its backers in the government is just that--an illusion--this astounding rip-off will continue.

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/7332

[Blueflame]

Definitely... lower oil prices per barrel + record prices at the pump = record oil company profits = major price gouging by the oil companies. We need to reinstate the windfall profits tax, imho.

It's amazing to me that Big Oil even tries to sell the public such laughable "justifications" for the high prices.... it's simple, really. They're greedy. But there's still that 30% or so who will believe it when their leg is being peed on while they're told it's raining....

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

But there's still that 30% or so who will believe it when their leg is being peed on while they're told it's raining....

Would be the same 30% who support the oil industry puppet who now squats in the oval office? :D

http://www.bartcop.com/pay-any-price.gif
http://www.greatdreams.com/political/bush_saudi.jpg

[W*GS]

Definitely... lower oil prices per barrel + record prices at the pump = record oil company profits = major price gouging by the oil companies. We need to reinstate the windfall profits tax, imho.

So the government can waste even more money?

[Bronco Bob]

So the government can waste even more money?

And people can drive around huge SUVs with only the driver in it?

[Bronco Bob]

Definitely... lower oil prices per barrel + record prices at the pump = record oil company profits = major price gouging by the oil companies. We need to reinstate the windfall profits tax, imho.

It's amazing to me that Big Oil even tries to sell the public such laughable "justifications" for the high prices.... it's simple, really. They're greedy. But there's still that 30% or so who will believe it when their leg is being peed on while they're told it's raining....

They are capitalists. The goal of a capitalist is to make money. They are just
doing what they are being paid to do. No one is forcing anyone to buy their
product. There are alternatives, but it's just easier to buy their product and
complain about it than to make the lifestyle change it would take to not have
to buy their product.

[bendog]

It would be interesting to see whether the industry was plowing money into alternative R&D and exploration/refineries, or just where the profits are going. I think the govt is largely useless for spurring R&D. It could provide some seed money to university types to come up with things that are commercially viable, but that's about it, imo.

But if it turns out that exxon is merely paying higher dividends/salaries, while producing the same amt of gas, I wouldn't be totally turned off by a windfall tax with the revenue going to a specific program .... such as privatized equity accounts for citizens .... that speads the benefit of the program equally amongst all of us. I'd be ok with using the proceeds to make higher education more affordable, too.

[bendog]

They are capitalists. The goal of a capitalist is to make money. They are just
doing what they are being paid to do. No one is forcing anyone to buy their
product. There are alternatives, but it's just easier to buy their product and
complain about it than to make the lifestyle change it would take to not have
to buy their product.

But the refiners of gasoline do not operate in a market where demand/supply are self regulating. It's not a free market. There is a limited supply of gasoline because we can only refine as much as we have x refinery capacity, and last I looked we weren't adding. Essentially their profits rise without any effort of the exxon-mobile/chevron's parts. So, the argument of "capitalism" doesn't wash. They are an oligarchy. Competition is a meaningless concept to them.

They compete internationally for supply. But that is not what the discussion about windfall is really about. Now, if they are using all their windfalls to get more supply ... that would interest me.

[Bronco Bob]

But the refiners of gasoline do not operate in a market where demand/supply are self regulating. It's not a free market. There is a limited supply of gasoline because we can only refine as much as we have x refinery capacity, and last I looked we weren't adding. Essentially their profits rise without any effort of the exxon-mobile/chevron's parts. So, the argument of "capitalism" doesn't wash. They are an oligarchy. Competition is a meaningless concept to them.

They compete internationally for supply. But that is not what the discussion about windfall is really about. Now, if they are using all their windfalls to get more supply ... that would interest me.

So prosecute them under anti-trust laws, if they really are conspiring to
limit competition. How does raising taxes on them stop that? All they
would end up doing is passing the cost on to the customer and you'd
end up paying even more for their product. Now OTOH if one particular
company is intentionally limiting its refining capacity to boost its profits,
and every other company is doing it on their own too because it seems
to work, that is still that company's right to do so, as long as they are not
working with other to limit refining capacity.

[bendog]

They're not conspiring at all. I never meant to suggest they were breaking the law.

Two facts not subject to change: the SUPPLY of gasoline is not going to increase; the supply of oil is not going to increase as fast as consumption worldwide increases. That means cost, supply and demand are not self-regulating like they are in free markets. Comparing gas prices to prices for stuff like teeshirts or corn are not valid comparisons.

Exxon Mobile hasn't "wrongfully" upped its profits. The price of oil is set internationally by how much some corp or country will pay. Exxon either extracts oil itself, or buys it. The only difference being is that if Exxon extracted the oil from a field it "owns," then on paper it sells the oil to it's refining component and banks the profit.

But the windfall comes from the refining. Refiners base their profits on charging a % of the per gallon price they charge to retailers. That's whats gone up. 1$ gas costs the same to refine as $4, but Exxon and the other refiners are getting 4x the profit. We're all for rewarding people who supply stuff. But Exxon was doing quite nicely with 1$ gas. Where's the new profit going? That's the question windfall taxes turn on, imo. If I'm just being jacked around, tax it and send the money back to the consumers.

[Rohirrim]

With the loss of Congress last year, big oil sees the writing on the wall. They've got to rake in the profits while their guys are still in the WH. It's known as "Get while the gettin' is good."

[Meck77]

They are capitalists. The goal of a capitalist is to make money. They are just
doing what they are being paid to do. No one is forcing anyone to buy their
product. There are alternatives, but it's just easier to buy their product and
complain about it than to make the lifestyle change it would take to not have
to buy their product.

Bingo....It's supply and demand and our thirst is out of control. The real change needs to come from us the consumer and like I said earlier the more pissed off people get the better. It's too easy to point the finger at Bush, the oil companies when we are joy riding our 12 mpg trucks around by ourselves.

I guess I'm just twisted but I'd like to see gas hit $4.00 gallon. Then people will be even more pissed off! We are heading in the right direction for some real change and I'm not talking about dipping into the pockets of the oil companies profits. That isn't long term change.

[Odysseus]

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1587211#post1587211

Hey Spider!

[REB]

Supply and demand. When we the consumers actually start making a statement and stop buying the big suv's and what not... and start actually walking or riding a bike when it's possible/cutting back then what do they care? You can bitch all you want but unless YOU make a diffence nothing will change. You can wait for this Govt. all you want. Aint gonna happen.

[NYBronco]

Gas prices are beginning to drop. It's as low as $2.93 here near Baltimore from $3.05 in the last ten days.

[Sassy]

2.98 here.
Hey, maybe if we had a decent transit system more people would keep their vehicles at home;

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

But the windfall comes from the refining. Refiners base their profits on charging a % of the per gallon price they charge to retailers. That's whats gone up. 1$ gas costs the same to refine as $4, but Exxon and the other refiners are getting 4x the profit. We're all for rewarding people who supply stuff. But Exxon was doing quite nicely with 1$ gas. Where's the new profit going? That's the question windfall taxes turn on, imo. If I'm just being jacked around, tax it and send the money back to the consumers.

Ding ding ding - we have a winner. :thumbsup:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

With the loss of Congress last year, big oil sees the writing on the wall. They've got to rake in the profits while their guys are still in the WH. It's known as "Get while the gettin' is good."

Exactly.

When election '08 rolls around, you can bet I'll be looking for the candidate with the fewest campaign dollars from big oil.

[Spider]

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1587211#post1587211

Hey Spider!

Nice , real nice , I would like to know how it does in wind , on hills , passengers ......

[Spider]

-What do you think Spider? Would you drive a truck if it was electrical and could go 500 miles without needing to be charged? What if there was solar power backup recharging the battery while you drove? Couldn't they harvest some of the wind energy off the truck moving. Heck! Old SPider would never have to leave his truck. He can just drive and drive and drive.
would be nice , if I had the power I do now , I would do it @ 50% of the power I have now .........

[The Lone Bolt]

My money's on these guys: http://phoenixmotorcars.com/

Also I'm looking forward to this product reaching the market. It's expensive but I think it'll sell to the middle income and up market: http://www.zapworld.com/ZAPWorld.aspx?id=4560

And there's still Eestor. I'm a little sceptical that their electricity storage device will live up to the hype, but I'll keep an eye on it.

Frankly, I think the days of the internal coimbustion engine are numbered.

[bendog]

Ding ding ding - we have a winner. :thumbsup:

Thanks. But just to be clear, I don't see that the oil companies are driving the price of oil. Mostly that is supply and demand. Or what the big buyers (the oil companies and in some cases entire countries, like China and Iran) PERCIEVE will be supply and demand a few months from now. As in the congressional elections, the exxon mobiles, which favor the gop, can short term drive down the price of oil by understating what they really percieve as upcoming supply, ie buy less than they really think they'll sell. But, it's a short term market dislocation.

Probably bushii's invasion has slightly upped the price, as Iraq's oil is at best "gone missing God only knows where" to graft.

But the oil companies wind fall profits are just windfalls from the increased price of oil and the % of a gal of oil that is the charge for refining.

Also, I read or heard somewhere that one reason gas prices have dropped is that we're somehow importing refined gasoline. I don't know from where it comes.

[Sassy]

Down to $2.64 here...2.59 with a five cent discount card.
Just heard this am that North Dakota now has fifty active Oil Rigs with 40 workers each and another 80 indirect workers each. Not bad. That's the hightest it's been. Each well is producing 125,000 barrels per day...and we are still importing? Blah!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Oil jumps on news of Nigerian strike

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20071010/capt.87ea9ae83f6a488c9d53c65bbd42f69c.lithuania_en ergy_summit_xmk131.jpg?x=180&y=261&sig=LPg6_TGdBjbsesZgtcNERQ--

By JOHN WILEN, AP Business Writer Wed Oct 10, 3:50 PM ET

NEW YORK - Oil futures surged Wednesday in a late rally driven by news that workers at Chevron Corp. facilities in Nigeria had staged a surprise strike and by a report that demand for gasoline is up.

Nigeria is Africa's biggest oil producer and one of the top overseas suppliers to the United States. Oil prices often rise when Nigerian oil supplies are threatened.

"Employees of some of the companies providing labor workforce to Chevron, and belonging to the National Union of Petroleum and Natural Gas Workers ... initiated (a) strike" at six facilities, Chevron said in a statement.

Chevron said production was unaffected. It was unclear how long the strike might last. Nigerian oil workers have a history of striking frequently, but returning to work quickly.

Prices were also supported by a MasterCard Advisors LLC report that concluded gasoline demand rose 1.3 percentage points last week compared to the same week last year.

Light, sweet crude for November delivery rose $1.04 to settle at $81.30 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange. November gasoline rose 1.34 cents to settle at $2.0336 a gallon while Nymex heating oil rose 3.19 cents to settle at $2.2172 a gallon.

November natural gas rose 14.7 cents to settle at $7.01 per 1,000 cubic feet on expectations that this winter will be colder than last.

In London, November Brent crude rose $1.11 to settle at $78.60 a barrel on the ICE Futures exchange.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071010/ap_on_bi_ge/oil_prices;_ylt=A0WTUdO9aQ1HXGcBLwBu24cA

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Goldman Sachs analyst sees oil prices moving higher

Wednesday October 10, 5:46 am ET
By Eugenia Levenson, Fortune reporter

Crude oil prices hit a series of record highs in the past month, topping $83 a barrel - and that was after OPEC announced it would increase production by 500,000 barrels a day. The sharp spike went against post-Labor Day tradition, when the end of a gas-guzzling summer usually brings lower prices, and refineries head into their fall maintenance schedule.

After Goldman Sachs raised its year-end price forecast by $13, to $85 a barrel, Jeffrey Currie, global head of commodities research in London, spoke to Fortune's Eugenia Levenson about where oil is headed from here.

What's behind the recent surge in crude oil prices?

The OPEC supply increase was too little, too late. The market is in a significant deficit, the first deficit we've seen since 2003. Inventory started to drop in October of last year for two reasons. Non-OPEC supply has been extraordinarily disappointing, because those producers are hitting technical difficulties with new equipment and their existing fields are getting less productive. OPEC has the supply but hasn't brought it online. The second factor is that we're in the part of the energy cycle where extraction costs are rising and have been since 2001.

So how high will prices climb?

Our high-risk scenario is in the $90 to $95 a barrel range. I think there's high probability we'll get there, rapidly approaching 50%. The later OPEC is in responding to the higher prices, the sharper the deficit and the more critical the drawdown on inventory this winter - and the more volatile the price spikes. They'll have to respond by first quarter of next year, barring a global collapse in demand.

Why hasn't OPEC increased supply?

First and foremost, domestic demand is strong in the entire Gulf region. Exports from the Middle East are lower today than they were in 2000, but production is up two million barrels a day. There are serious bottlenecks preventing non-OPEC from growing supply even at $70 per barrel, so if I'm OPEC, I know I don't have significant competition for market share. The last reason, which is very important, is that if OPEC did ramp up production, they'd go to capacity, which would reduce their political negotiating position.

What does an $80 barrel mean for gas prices?

This is a crude story. Retail prices are lower today on $80 a barrel than they were in May. At Memorial Day, the average price at the pump was $3.25 a gallon, and at Labor Day it was $2.86 a gallon.

What's keeping retail prices low?

Refining margins [profits earned by the refiner] dropped from 74 cents a gallon in May to 19 cents. The main reason for the high margins in the summer was an unprecedented number of refinery outages. In part, that's because of continuing problems from hurricanes Katrina and Rita. It's also true that significant increases in environmental regulations on fuel create a higher probability of these types of mishaps. There were also distribution problems during that time period, which led to higher marketing margins [profits earned at the retail level]. But now the gas stations' take has dropped from 47 cents a gallon to 32 cents.

Refining margins have come down, but will they start rising again?

We're modestly bullish on refining margins. They will probably get bigger, though not as big as in May. That's why I don't think that even if crude goes to $90 a barrel, retail prices will be as high as they were. Stocks in the refining sector were pulled down by concerns over the credit crisis as well as declining refining margins. Investors are not pricing in the potential rebound in margins.

Higher gas prices this summer didn't seem to dent demand. Why?

It's the price change that matters. In September 2005, retail gasoline prices reached an all-time high of $3.11 a gallon. That was a 70% year-over-year increase, and it killed off U.S. gasoline demand and significantly impacted economic growth. This May prices reached a new all-time high of $3.25, a 12% increase year-over-year, and it didn't even make the headlines. The consumer had already adjusted to the $3 level.

http://biz.yahoo.com/hftn/071010/100907_oil_goldmansachs_fortune.html?.v=1

[Sassy]

So what's everyone paying for gas these days?

[Bronco Bob]

So what's everyone paying for gas these days?

$2.56 is the cheapest I've found in town for regular.

[Hogan11]

$2.95 :(

[W*GS]

It was stuck at $2.86 for at least the past 6-8 weeks; now it's "down" to $2.84.

[REB]

$2.76

[BMF Bronco]

2.88

[Spider]

I paid 3.18 at the outlaw in Rock Springs ........ took on 150 gallons ,still could have put in 90 more gallons

[BABronco]

$2.49 in Bartlesville, OK

[Spider]

$2.49 in Bartlesville, OK

Huh , you people in other countries paying the same price as us Americans ;D

[BABronco]

Huh , you people in other countries paying the same price as us Americans ;D

Naw, we get a better deal. ;)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

CNNMoney.com

In the face of $3 gasoline, drivers finally cut back

Tuesday December 18, 2:07 pm ET

By Steve Hargreaves, CNNMoney.com staff writer

Gasoline demand has fallen for the first time in years as drivers appear to recoil from near-record prices, throwing doubt on America's seemingly insatiable thirst for fuel.

Growth in gasoline demand has been slowing all year. In five of the last seven weeks, the amount of gas that Americans consume has actually fallen compared to the same time last year, according to retail sales data gathered by MasterCard SpendingPulse, a research report that tracks gasoline sales using MasterCard, other credit cards and cash purchases at approximately 140,000 service stations around the country.

"With prices over $3 a gallon, there seems to be some real resistance from the consumer," said Michael McNamara, director of research for MasterCard SpendingPulse.

In some weeks demand has fallen by as much as 3 percent.

Although the public has seen $3 gasoline before, 2007 has been different. Where previous price spikes were short-lived, this one seems to be here to stay.

Another reason demand is falling could be due to a slowing economy, or even fears of a recession.

Since topping $3 back in April, gasoline has stayed consistently high, with the nationwide weekly average price never dropping below $2.70 a gallon, according to the Energy Information Administration. For 19 of the last 33 weeks, gasoline has averaged over $3 a gallon.

The first time in recent memory that gasoline prices hit $3 was September 2005, following Hurricane Katrina, and then once again in the summer of 2006. (Gasoline prices were also over $3 in the early 1980s, adjusted for inflation.)

Analysts reported a slight drop in consumer demand growth following each of those spikes, but they where short lived. Gasoline eventually returned to the low $2 range and demand quickly resumed its normal rate of growth of around 1.5 percent per year.

For the last few months gasoline demand growth has been relatively flat, according to the EIA. This drop in demand is a main reason why gasoline prices didn't follow oil prices to a new all-time record last month.

"Gasoline demand does not usually fall," said Geoff Sundstrom, a gasoline price analyst at the motorist organization AAA. "It could be the start of a trend."

Gasoline is one of those items that some economists consider "inelastic," that is, people will buy it no matter what the cost. But the recent drop in demand puts that into question, and suggest people will cut out unnecessary trips if they are too expensive.

"There is some level of [gasoline] buying that has to occur, people have to get to work," said McNamara. "But not every trip is non-discretionary."

Indeed, gas demand for the most recent week jumped over 3 percent, but McNamara said wide swings around the holidays are common as people visit family and go shopping.

Sundstrom said they have seen fewer sales of pick-up trucks and large SUVs since gasoline crossed the $3 mark back in 2005, and more sales of so-called "cross-over" SUVs, which are a mix between a car and a traditional SUVs.

That could mean people are buying more fuel efficient vehicles, which is beginning to show up in the demand numbers. But McNamara noted gasoline demand was strong when prices fell from $3 a gallon in 2005 and 2006.

Sundstrom noted that other times when demand has fallen - like after Sept. 11, 2001, from 1980 to 1981, and from 1974 to 1975 - coincided with recessions.

But he pointed out the U.S. economy is much less energy intensive than it was in the 70s and 80s, meaning a drop in energy use may no longer signal a looming recession.

Economists also weren't ready to call the recent drop in demand a death blow for the economy.

"I think its more an indication of how we're using gasoline than a recession story," said Jim Glassman, a senior economist at J.P. Morgan.

[Demand] has been weak for months," said Chris Lafakis, an associate economist at Moody's Economy.com, an economic consultancy, noting that the economy has continued to chug along, albeit at a slower pace. "This doesn't raise the specter of recession."

http://biz.yahoo.com/cnnm/071218/121807_gas_demand.html?.v=5&.pf=banking-budgeting

[W*GS]

In the face of $3 gasoline, drivers finally cut back

Good.