We don't need a stinkin' DE.

[OABB]

First of all, I would like to say hello to the fellow broncos fans on this site. I have read virtually every thread and post these last few years and never really thought of posting one myself. But as I continue to peruse, i find myself wanting to weigh in from a different perspective.
While I would love to have four future hall of famers on our defensive line, I do not think our current state is as critical as some would suggest. I am not put of as many of you, that our dline consists of cleveland castoffs, because when i stop and think about it, outside of the orange crush years, i can't really think of a time when our front four was ever really dominating. If you recall, when we won back to back SB's, we were more of a blitzing team. If you look at our only real succesfull season since those years, it was two years ago when we made it to the afccg by an aggressive blitzing style.
I think maybe we have lost touch with reality here a little bit. of course any team would want a dominating front four with great rushing DE's but that is something far easier said than done. Every team in the Nfl wants this, and every team tries hard to achieve it. If it were as easy as drafting a DE, than every team would be great
While i believe it is true that defense wins championships, i think it is neccesary to say that great defenses wins championships. we have seen even this last year, that a great offense and adequete defense can bring home the lombardi as well. Shanahan is a masterful offensive coach, and i believe our defensive problems are more a problem with scheme than personell.
For example, as I stated earlier, our most succesfull years have been achieved through the combination of a great offensive attack coupled with an aggressive defense. Don't forget that when Mobley knocked down Farve's 4th and 6 pass, it was at the advent of an all out blitz. two years ago we made it within one game of the superbowl with this method. and we won our only trophies with the same.
Granted, in today's nfl, you cannot be a one trick pony, so we must seek the same in our defensive philosophy that we seek with our o... a balanced attack. two years ago we primarily blitzed and where outcoached in the championship game because we were one dimensional. last year, we rushed our front four and rarely, and unaffectively, blitzed enough. We were once again one dimensional and were ultimately exposeed in the first SD game.
It was those "Browncos" that led us to the afccg, and to a record setting first half of the season. it was a failure in coaching to mix it up against the opposition. Is bates the answer? I don't know yet, but I know he has a great resume and is highly respected by his players. I dont see him employing a two man rush like rhodes, nor do I see him being as stubborn as coyer. We by far have the talent on D to be a formidable opponent to anyone, we just need a scheme that makes opposing offensive coordinaters have to react, not dictate.
I would love Carriker, or Moss of course, but I don't think this team needs one DE in order to compete. I think that is the wrong approach, because we have shown we can generate pressure with our personel, as well as stopping the run and being fundamentally sound. Let me know what you guys think.

[broncs2bowl]

Yes we do

[Los Broncos]

We do need help.

[Atwater His Ass]

wall of text is sooooooo 1999.

[ICON]

http://www.junkscience.com/JSJ_Course/jsjudocourse/wrong.jpg

We need a fierce pass rush from our front four!


WELCOME

[OABB]

I didn't mean to make it sound like I wasn't all for a fierce pass rush from our front four. Please don't misunderstand, what I meant was, I believe that a change in playcalling can have an impact as well. I was stating that many broncos fans feel that if we don't get a playmaking DE in this years draft or through FA, we won't be able to have a team that can make a deep run in the playoffs. That simply isn't what I believe. We were one game away two seasons ago, which supports my argument.

[iforgotmypassword]

it's by far the biggest need on the team, BUT i can see us takin reggie just cause the DL is soooo deep this year so we could take like 3 DE's after the first and hope ones a stud

[RkyMtnThunder]

You do make some valid points. But at this point in time, the clear hole in our roster is on the defensive front.

We cannot continue to try to mask our weakness with schemes and hope that will be enough.

We cannot give today's elite passers the time we have been giving them - great coverage/schemes or not - they will dink/dunk us to death (Peyton?) if we arent constantly in their faces. We need more push up front.

Our team is stacked - with the exception of the D line. Its clearly our weakest area and should be addressed.

All we need is just *that* much more push up front. I wont expect any rookie DL to come in and light the world on fire. I just expect *that* much more help to get us to where we want to go. Dumerville showed to be a solid addition on the D line. Just one more guy who can make a handful of plays and I think we are golden

[ICON]

First of all, I would like to say hello to the fellow broncos fans on this site. I have read virtually every thread and post these last few years and never really thought of posting one myself. But as I continue to peruse, i find myself wanting to weigh in from a different perspective.
While I would love to have four future hall of famers on our defensive line, I do not think our current state is as critical as some would suggest. I am not put of as many of you, that our dline consists of cleveland castoffs, because when i stop and think about it, outside of the orange crush years, i can't really think of a time when our front four was ever really dominating. If you recall, when we won back to back SB's, we were more of a blitzing team. If you look at our only real succesfull season since those years, it was two years ago when we made it to the afccg by an aggressive blitzing style.
I think maybe we have lost touch with reality here a little bit. of course any team would want a dominating front four with great rushing DE's but that is something far easier said than done. Every team in the Nfl wants this, and every team tries hard to achieve it. If it were as easy as drafting a DE, than every team would be great
While i believe it is true that defense wins championships, i think it is neccesary to say that great defenses wins championships. we have seen even this last year, that a great offense and adequete defense can bring home the lombardi as well. Shanahan is a masterful offensive coach, and i believe our defensive problems are more a problem with scheme than personell.
For example, as I stated earlier, our most succesfull years have been achieved through the combination of a great offensive attack coupled with an aggressive defense. Don't forget that when Mobley knocked down Farve's 4th and 6 pass, it was at the advent of an all out blitz. two years ago we made it within one game of the superbowl with this method. and we won our only trophies with the same.
Granted, in today's nfl, you cannot be a one trick pony, so we must seek the same in our defensive philosophy that we seek with our o... a balanced attack. two years ago we primarily blitzed and where outcoached in the championship game because we were one dimensional. last year, we rushed our front four and rarely, and unaffectively, blitzed enough. We were once again one dimensional and were ultimately exposeed in the first SD game.
It was those "Browncos" that led us to the afccg, and to a record setting first half of the season. it was a failure in coaching to mix it up against the opposition. Is bates the answer? I don't know yet, but I know he has a great resume and is highly respected by his players. I dont see him employing a two man rush like rhodes, nor do I see him being as stubborn as coyer. We by far have the talent on D to be a formidable opponent to anyone, we just need a scheme that makes opposing offensive coordinaters have to react, not dictate.
I would love Carriker, or Moss of course, but I don't think this team needs one DE in order to compete. I think that is the wrong approach, because we have shown we can generate pressure with our personel, as well as stopping the run and being fundamentally sound. Let me know what you guys think.

In both college and professional football, getting a strong pass rush is an important skill, as an average quarterback will often be able to be productive, ...

The Broncos have had a nice run in free agency, signing Daniel Graham and Travis Henry in recent days. Not only that, they traded for Dre’ Bly, one of the most highly regarded players in the league at his position.

Let’s see now, that’s a tight end, a tailback and a cornerback. Sounds good, upgrading those positions, but the Broncos have yet to address their most crying need - a pass rusher coming off the corner.



Add it all up and what do you have? You have to the Broncos drafting a defensive end in the first round. If he turns out to be as good a pass rusher as last year’s fourth-rounder, Elvis Dumervil, they’ll have had an exceptional offseason. If they draft a defensive end who makes little impact, the pass rush will continue to be the Broncos’ black hole.

[Kaylore]

We don't have any linebackers who can blitz either. Either improve the D-line or get some linebackers that can shed blocks. Without one or the other, we're going to have problems.

[BroncoBuff]

I have high hopes for Elvis, now that Coyer and Patterson are not around to "experiment" with him at DT ... and I like Lang and Ekuban. But we need a strong, every-down DE. Adam Carriker would be perfect.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Welcome O&B Blood. Keep coming back and we'll have you convinced ;D

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Couldn't be more wrong. Any defense lives and dies by the defensive line winning the battle at the line of scrimmage. It all starts there. If they play well, the linebackers look better. If they rush the passer, your corners look better. If they fail at both, your entire defense is exposed. When in doubt, always go D-line. As long as that is strong, you won't be a bad d

[cabronco]

I have high hopes for Elvis, now that Coyer and Patterson are not around to "experiment" with him at DT ... and I like Lang and Ekuban. But we need a strong, every-down DE. Adam Carriker would be perfect.

I agree and think that Carriker would be a strong every down DE and a good one for many years. I just hope Bates & Shanahan thinks so too.

[Inkana7]

We got our asses handed to us in the Trenches against the 49ers. I never want to see that again.

[OABB]

Thanks for the kind welcome. I AM convinced that we need a strong pass rush, however in todays era of free angency and the limitations of the salary cap, we all know that it is near impossible to field a team without a 'glaring' weakness. If you look around the league, there isn't a team that doesn't have one, and even fewer that don't have many.
We are very lucky as fans to even be at the point of discussing the need for one player to take us to the next level. I would hate to be a fan of anyone else. With that being said, fielding a team with no weakness is only half the battle. There are much more important things to consider from play calling, to match ups, and even to having a little luck. There truly is parity in this league and being only "one player away" already puts you in the upper echelon.
And again, I would love a playmaking DE, but that doesn't garuntee us anything. there are always a few plays in a game that can go either way, and one or two more sacks here and there don't garauntee a victory(see San Diego, Baltimore, etc.) It comes down to game managment, to exposing weaknesses in the opposition and to creating missmatches and finaly- to execution. I believe we have the strongest coaching staff, and collection of players in this league. We have everything we need, today-right now, to go all the way.
and finally(i apologize for the 1999 wall of text here, but i don't know how to summarize any of this quicker) in todays NFL, the team that covers up their weaknesess the best, have more than an edge over anyone else. You just cannot field a team nowadays that doesn't have a glaring weakness.

[ICON]

We got our asses handed to us in the Trenches against the 49ers. I never want to see that again.

Yep and 49ers OTs sucked we should have hurt alex :thanku:

[bpinna]

Thanks for the kind welcome. ...in todays NFL, the team that covers up their weaknesess the best, have more than an edge over anyone else. You just cannot field a team nowadays that doesn't have a glaring weakness.

You make some good points. And congrats for challenging the status quo.

The nice part is that the FO has done such a good job this offseason that we can look to improve our DLine in the draft. So in a lot of ways, the argument is moot. We have the draft picks to upgrade. We won't make it to where DLine is a strength, but we can get a huge upgrade. And let's face it, our special teams will probably still suck...so we'll still have our required glaring weakness.

You're right that there are few teams out there without any holes. Indy certainly has a weak run defense. But Peyton is a special player who changes the equation. Other contenders are more balanced. Steelers, Ravens, Chargers, and particularly with offseason moves the Patriots are pretty strong across the board. I think you can contend with weak spots, but I'm not sure you can win the Super Bowl without a pretty well balanced team and/or Manning or Brady for your QB.

Anyway, if the FO picks a cornerback or a wide receiver or a QB for our first pick, a storming of Dove Valley would be entirely warranted. I can see OT or S, but the rest of day 1 better be DLine.

[OABB]

You make some good points. And congrats for challenging the status quo.

The nice part is that the FO has done such a good job this offseason that we can look to improve our DLine in the draft. So in a lot of ways, the argument is moot. We have the draft picks to upgrade. We won't make it to where DLine is a strength, but we can get a huge upgrade. And let's face it, our special teams will probably still suck...so we'll still have our required glaring weakness.

You're right that there are few teams out there without any holes. Indy certainly has a weak run defense. But Peyton is a special player who changes the equation. Other contenders are more balanced. Steelers, Ravens, Chargers, and particularly with offseason moves the Patriots are pretty strong across the board. I think you can contend with weak spots, but I'm not sure you can win the Super Bowl without a pretty well balanced team and/or Manning or Brady for your QB.

Anyway, if the FO picks a cornerback or a wide receiver or a QB for our first pick, a storming of Dove Valley would be entirely warranted. I can see OT or S, but the rest of day 1 better be DLine.





Sorry if this is the second reply, still learning... You make some good points as well. And you're right, if they do draft a qb/wr/cb i will be right next to you with a flaming torch and dried out bricks...

[Paladin]

Griffin in First, DE, DT,and DE the rest of the first day. After that, BPA or Camp Fodder.......

Unless, the Broncos pick up a good DE in a Trade of some sort.....

[Willynowei]

Jim Johnson of the Eagles loves blitzing, he does it repeatedly and it works very well even when the offense is expecting it. That, has a lot to do with the fact that his D-line is always full of big name players. If you have a great D-line, blitzing becomes that much more effective.

[Rock Chalk]

I think you make some strong points, but there are a few flaws, and being the bastard that I am I will point them out.

1) Back to back championship teams were far more potent offensively than anything we have had since or will have this next year.

2) Blitzing during back to back championship years was done with excellent blitzing LBs, safeties and a much better front four than we currently have.

3) A dominating front four is ideal, but mostly the people here just want SOMETHING on the front four and, after the last few years I dont think that's too much to ask since our front four since Robinson has been grossly inept from Pryce to Mario Fatguy (I do miss him, if only for the fact that I liked calling him Mario Fatguy).

4) I think we got some good edge rushers, that is, some guys that can rush the edge when we need them to however what they and the rest of the team lacks is at least one overpowering DT not named Gerrard "Bust" Warren. Im talking in the Marcus Stroud stratosphere, not the Cleveland castoffs and rotational guys we have dealt with for nigh on a decade. We need at least one guy who can get a PUSH up the middle and stand up Centers and Gaurds to get in passing lanes. Not necessarily get to the QB, but take up space, double teams and then we need another guy sitting his fat ass next to him that is at least decent in doing the same. As it is, Chief/SD/Jokeland linemen are blocking our DTs with one hand while eating a sammich with the other.

[16-JakE-16]

i may be one ignorant son of a bitch but I do know that DE/DT is the #1 priority

[bdv]

Can someone suggest to the Bronco FO that they try out a few of the best Sumo Wrestlers in training camp as DTs? These guys are actually incredible athletes! We need a serious push from the middle of the D-line, as well as talented DEs.

Imagine how tired the opponent's OL would get... :giggle:


My Earlier Sumo thread:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=54468

[RkyMtnThunder]

Can someone suggest to the Bronco FO that they try out a few of the best Sumo Wrestlers in training camp as DTs? These guys are actually incredible athletes! We need a serious push from the middle of the D-line, as well as talented DEs.

Imagine how tired the opponent's OL would get... :giggle:


My Earlier Sumo thread:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=54468

Hey - if Olympic sprinters can make it as DB or WR I dont see why sumo wrestlers shouldnt get a chance at line play!

Equipment manager's nightmare though lol

[broncogary]

i may be one ignorant son of a b**** but I do know that DE/DT is the #1 priority

I'll second that. :wiggle:

[listopencil]

We need a D-Line. I'll settle for a DE or a DT or both or several of both.

[broncsyanks]

pass rush?? whats that i havent seen one of those in a long time . j/k LOL
kid you need to look a little better at that whether or not we need a de

[azbroncfan]

How do you beat a team like the colts if you are a Blitzing team? You will always run into a team that would hope that the D would blitz them. As far as the SB teams the O was good enough to put up a minimum of 30 pts on anyone.

97/98

DE Smith, Williams > Lang, Elvis, Ekuban
DT>Traylor, Tannuvasa > Retreads and Warren

LB ROMO > than any on roster now
MLB AL> Cadrez or Aldridge
LB Mobley > Gold

S Atwater>Lynch

[Killericon]

True, we don't need a DE.

We need a DT.

[-Slap-]

Thanks for the kind welcome. I AM convinced that we need a strong pass rush, however in todays era of free angency and the limitations of the salary cap, we all know that it is near impossible to field a team without a 'glaring' weakness. If you look around the league, there isn't a team that doesn't have one, and even fewer that don't have many.
We are very lucky as fans to even be at the point of discussing the need for one player to take us to the next level. I would hate to be a fan of anyone else. With that being said, fielding a team with no weakness is only half the battle. There are much more important things to consider from play calling, to match ups, and even to having a little luck. There truly is parity in this league and being only "one player away" already puts you in the upper echelon.
And again, I would love a playmaking DE, but that doesn't garuntee us anything. there are always a few plays in a game that can go either way, and one or two more sacks here and there don't garauntee a victory(see San Diego, Baltimore, etc.) It comes down to game managment, to exposing weaknesses in the opposition and to creating missmatches and finaly- to execution. I believe we have the strongest coaching staff, and collection of players in this league. We have everything we need, today-right now, to go all the way.
and finally(i apologize for the 1999 wall of text here, but i don't know how to summarize any of this quicker) in todays NFL, the team that covers up their weaknesess the best, have more than an edge over anyone else. You just cannot field a team nowadays that doesn't have a glaring weakness.

Glad you've decided to start posting. You have a realistic outlook on the demand and scarcity of dominant defensive linemen. You also seem to believe there's more than one way to build a winning team, which is a surprisingly unpopular opinion on this board.

If you want to get technical about, the Broncos have never had what you could truly call a dominating defensive line at any point in franchise history.

Neil Smith and Alfred Williams were both in the twilight of their careers during the back to back. Traylor was probably at the height of his game. Maa was sort of a one trick pony.

Rulon Jones and Greg Kragen were fine players, but generally had stiffs around them and they got routinely trounced by big offensive lines from the NFC.

The Orange Crush line was probably the closest thing we had to a great defensive line. Rubin Carter was young and strong and playing a position that confused people. Lyle Alzado was in his prime physically and pharmacologically. Barney Chavous was also in his prime. Still, everybody regards the linebackers to be the strength of that defense, and with good reason.

Too bad Tombstone Jackson and Paul Smith weren't able to overlap during each others' prime years. Jackson's knees were shot by the time Smith became a real force in the League.

[ayjackson]

The Colts have the league's best (or among the best) rush-ends in Mathis and Freeney and it never got them anywhere (their defence, by and large, sucked) - until this year, when Mathis and Freeney had poor years. Go figure.

I agree we need a DE and a DT in the draft, but I agree with the original poster that it isn't the cure-all that it's made out to be. I see nobody that would likely be available at 21, worthy of that pick. The closest is Harrell, and I would prefer to move down seven or eight spots for him.

[Dean]

I have to agree We don't need no stinking DE :wave: we have already had more than out share of them. We need a good defensive end. While we are at it I would like to place an order for a DT, safety, and OT to go. :yayaya:

[OABB]

I think you make some strong points, but there are a few flaws, and being the bastard that I am I will point them out.

1) Back to back championship teams were far more potent offensively than anything we have had since or will have this next year.

2) Blitzing during back to back championship years was done with excellent blitzing LBs, safeties and a much better front four than we currently have.

3) A dominating front four is ideal, but mostly the people here just want SOMETHING on the front four and, after the last few years I dont think that's too much to ask since our front four since Robinson has been grossly inept from Pryce to Mario Fatguy (I do miss him, if only for the fact that I liked calling him Mario Fatguy).

4) I think we got some good edge rushers, that is, some guys that can rush the edge when we need them to however what they and the rest of the team lacks is at least one overpowering DT not named Gerrard "Bust" Warren. Im talking in the Marcus Stroud stratosphere, not the Cleveland castoffs and rotational guys we have dealt with for nigh on a decade. We need at least one guy who can get a PUSH up the middle and stand up Centers and Gaurds to get in passing lanes. Not necessarily get to the QB, but take up space, double teams and then we need another guy sitting his fat ass next to him that is at least decent in doing the same. As it is, Chief/SD/Jokeland linemen are blocking our DTs with one hand while eating a sammich with the other.





1.more potent offense in the superbowl years;
couldn't agree more, and aparantly either can Shanahan. This is why I believe he has been so aggressive in the fa market with henry,graham,s tokes, etc. I think he experimented with building a dominating defense the last few years, and although we had some good statisitic years since, I think that he sees that what got him the trophies were a potent offense and an aggressive defense. i really believe the light went off in his head and he has decided to build it up. that is why Jake is in Idaho with the hippie lettuce and we are currrently building on offense around our #11 pick last year.

2.your point about our sb defense is valid. however, I would argue physically that our linebacking core is much better than (was it alldrige,mobley and cadrez?cant remember) those teams, our secondary is much better as well. champ,bly,lynch. we did have #27 back then, but I dont remember anyone else aside from braxton. which leads to my point that with effective scheming, these athletes can be put in situations to excell. of course the line was much better, but I don't remember williams and smith jarring the ball loose on farve or sacking him all day long, i do remember it atwater blitzing blind side and causing the first turnover that swung the momentum.

3.totally agree, however i think you are making my point here.

4. again, here you mention the need for a big tackle. I do believe this to be more pressing than DE, and again couldn't agree more. I believe that is what Bates is after as well.

[OABB]

How do you beat a team like the colts if you are a Blitzing team? You will always run into a team that would hope that the D would blitz them. As far as the SB teams the O was good enough to put up a minimum of 30 pts on anyone.

97/98

DE Smith, Williams > Lang, Elvis, Ekuban
DT>Traylor, Tannuvasa > Retreads and Warren

LB ROMO > than any on roster now
MLB AL> Cadrez or Aldridge
LB Mobley > Gold

S Atwater>Lynch


again. please don't misunderstand me. I am not calling for us to become a blitzing team. we already tried that. I am calling for a scheme that employs the blitz, uses a four man rush, clever zone blitzes as well as fundamentally sound tackling. I don't think being one dimensional works on d, just like it doesn't work on O.

[theAPAOps5]

Man this is the noob thread. Great points in here though. All I ask is please use paragraphs. I have ADD and it took me a few tries to read through the wall of words. Good points though, however, I will throw up if they ignore DL in the first day of the draft.

[azbroncfan]

linebacking core[/B] is much better than (was it alldrige,mobley and cadrez?cant remember) those teams, our secondary is much better as well. champ,bly,lynch.

That isn't correct. True the LB's now are faster, and more hyped, but don't make any PLAYS which is what good defense is all about( 0 INTs and maybe 6 sacks in 2 years is not a good job). Romo was a great blitzer and playmaker, Mobley was comparable to DJ or Gold except he made a lot more plays, and AL is better than the 2 MLB's on the SB teams. On paper they are better now but the old LB'S made more plays.

[Taco John]

Winning the Superbowl twice in a row has erased a lot of stressful memories from a lot of folks in the Broncos fan base. Our defense certainly was a crucial part of winning the Superbowl. The fact that they were as such, however, wasn't the given that people take it for now. Broncos fans came into the 1997 playoff series with baloon knots fully puckered about our defense. They were giving up some huge plays, and we ended up losing what looked to be a wrapped up division title. We had just fumbled what looked to be a magical season the year before, and our defense was playing some pretty poor December football. Of course, people had confidence and hope, but that confidence was mostly placed on the offense, and that hope was that our defense would pull together enough to give our offense a turnover or two and keep the other team off their back enough to get a score or two ahead.

Bless that defense for pulling together. They caught lignting in a bottle and every week was exciting. It was a great feeling to see the team winning with defense.

[Dedhed]

Griffin in First, DE, DT,and DE the rest of the first day. After that, BPA or Camp Fodder.......

Unless, the Broncos pick up a good DE in a Trade of some sort.....

Now that Bly is inked, I've started to think that safety is the way to go in the first. Let's face it, regardless of who we draft, our DL is (once again) going to be sub-fantastic. However if we get Griffin or Nelson, or secondary will be superb. A modern style ball-hawking safety would give Lynch a lot of freedom to get in to support the run and blitz.

Add the fact that the DL class is amazingly deep this year, I think a great safety prospect would improve this team more than a DL. That said, after we get Nelson or Griffin we should spend the next 3-4 pick on DL.

[OABB]

That isn't correct. True the LB's now are faster, and more hyped, but don't make any PLAYS which is what good defense is all about( 0 INTs and maybe 6 sacks in 2 years is not a good job). Romo was a great blitzer and playmaker, Mobley was comparable to DJ or Gold except he made a lot more plays, and AL is better than the 2 MLB's on the SB teams. On paper they are better now but the old LB'S made more plays.

that may be true, however its one of those things we will have to wait and see. I could argue that the sb lb core might have had less steller numbers if they were coached by Coyer or Rhodes, but we will never know.
I could also argue that our current players on d would have lit it up back then as well. again- we will never know and its not worth discussing really.

All I will say to any of you still reading this thread, is that time will tell. I believe in Bates getting the best of his players, and hope that his play calling is more creative than what we have come accustomed to around here. I truly believe that a change of scheme will upgrade this defense more than adding Kerney,carter, or abraham would have.

Is it any wonder that pryce, bertrand berry, and reggie hayward all went on to post double digit sack seasons after they left here? the only mistake we've made on the line over these last few years is not just who we have, but how we've used them.

[Drek]

True, we don't need a DE.

We need a DT.

Winner. We need powerful DTs who keep interior lines honest and protect our LBs so they don't get worn out. As of now we got one ok DT and a bunch of rotational backup types.

Add another big DT with some talent and this front four will look worlds better.

[Bob]

Cant we take a couple stabs at the DL in the draft? So, the real question is it more difficult to get a DT to create a push on the inside with the size Bates likes or is it easier to find a DE that can apply pressure? I would like Carriker for DE as he can hold up against the run, and apply some pressure -- but does he seem like a Bates DE? Nope, so if he wants to find speed off the edge he can find it out of the first pick. Also, this draft seems stronger in the DE category -- so maybe it would be better to go with the DT in the first so we can get someone who can not only take up space i.e. the fatty augument (that I have also made) but also move in space. Branch is the name that comes up the most, and may have slipped a bit (which is to our advantage.)

I know that Tank is very strong, and could be picked up in the beginning of the second (But I cant say that I have watched him much -- and I dont know if he is a threat to get to the quarterback.

So does someone really have a good take on the question of what is easier to address? -- A pass rush from inside with size , or a pass rush with some ability to play of rushing downs?

[phisig150]

First of all, I would like to say hello to the fellow broncos fans on this site. I have read virtually every thread and post these last few years and never really thought of posting one myself. But as I continue to peruse, i find myself wanting to weigh in from a different perspective.
While I would love to have four future hall of famers on our defensive line, I do not think our current state is as critical as some would suggest. I am not put of as many of you, that our dline consists of cleveland castoffs, because when i stop and think about it, outside of the orange crush years, i can't really think of a time when our front four was ever really dominating. If you recall, when we won back to back SB's, we were more of a blitzing team. If you look at our only real succesfull season since those years, it was two years ago when we made it to the afccg by an aggressive blitzing style.
I think maybe we have lost touch with reality here a little bit. of course any team would want a dominating front four with great rushing DE's but that is something far easier said than done. Every team in the Nfl wants this, and every team tries hard to achieve it. If it were as easy as drafting a DE, than every team would be great
While i believe it is true that defense wins championships, i think it is neccesary to say that great defenses wins championships. we have seen even this last year, that a great offense and adequete defense can bring home the lombardi as well. Shanahan is a masterful offensive coach, and i believe our defensive problems are more a problem with scheme than personell.
For example, as I stated earlier, our most succesfull years have been achieved through the combination of a great offensive attack coupled with an aggressive defense. Don't forget that when Mobley knocked down Farve's 4th and 6 pass, it was at the advent of an all out blitz. two years ago we made it within one game of the superbowl with this method. and we won our only trophies with the same.
Granted, in today's nfl, you cannot be a one trick pony, so we must seek the same in our defensive philosophy that we seek with our o... a balanced attack. two years ago we primarily blitzed and where outcoached in the championship game because we were one dimensional. last year, we rushed our front four and rarely, and unaffectively, blitzed enough. We were once again one dimensional and were ultimately exposeed in the first SD game.
It was those "Browncos" that led us to the afccg, and to a record setting first half of the season. it was a failure in coaching to mix it up against the opposition. Is bates the answer? I don't know yet, but I know he has a great resume and is highly respected by his players. I dont see him employing a two man rush like rhodes, nor do I see him being as stubborn as coyer. We by far have the talent on D to be a formidable opponent to anyone, we just need a scheme that makes opposing offensive coordinaters have to react, not dictate.
I would love Carriker, or Moss of course, but I don't think this team needs one DE in order to compete. I think that is the wrong approach, because we have shown we can generate pressure with our personel, as well as stopping the run and being fundamentally sound. Let me know what you guys think.

So give your first 3 or 4 picks. I would love Nelson or Griffith, then Johnson or Crowder, then maybe Mebane or Thomas, then Crosby or darkhorse Garrett ( the RB who was tearing up the world tis year

[phisig150]

First of all, I would like to say hello to the fellow broncos fans on this site. I have read virtually every thread and post these last few years and never really thought of posting one myself. But as I continue to peruse, i find myself wanting to weigh in from a different perspective.
While I would love to have four future hall of famers on our defensive line, I do not think our current state is as critical as some would suggest. I am not put of as many of you, that our dline consists of cleveland castoffs, because when i stop and think about it, outside of the orange crush years, i can't really think of a time when our front four was ever really dominating. If you recall, when we won back to back SB's, we were more of a blitzing team. If you look at our only real succesfull season since those years, it was two years ago when we made it to the afccg by an aggressive blitzing style.
I think maybe we have lost touch with reality here a little bit. of course any team would want a dominating front four with great rushing DE's but that is something far easier said than done. Every team in the Nfl wants this, and every team tries hard to achieve it. If it were as easy as drafting a DE, than every team would be great
While i believe it is true that defense wins championships, i think it is neccesary to say that great defenses wins championships. we have seen even this last year, that a great offense and adequete defense can bring home the lombardi as well. Shanahan is a masterful offensive coach, and i believe our defensive problems are more a problem with scheme than personell.
For example, as I stated earlier, our most succesfull years have been achieved through the combination of a great offensive attack coupled with an aggressive defense. Don't forget that when Mobley knocked down Farve's 4th and 6 pass, it was at the advent of an all out blitz. two years ago we made it within one game of the superbowl with this method. and we won our only trophies with the same.
Granted, in today's nfl, you cannot be a one trick pony, so we must seek the same in our defensive philosophy that we seek with our o... a balanced attack. two years ago we primarily blitzed and where outcoached in the championship game because we were one dimensional. last year, we rushed our front four and rarely, and unaffectively, blitzed enough. We were once again one dimensional and were ultimately exposeed in the first SD game.
It was those "Browncos" that led us to the afccg, and to a record setting first half of the season. it was a failure in coaching to mix it up against the opposition. Is bates the answer? I don't know yet, but I know he has a great resume and is highly respected by his players. I dont see him employing a two man rush like rhodes, nor do I see him being as stubborn as coyer. We by far have the talent on D to be a formidable opponent to anyone, we just need a scheme that makes opposing offensive coordinaters have to react, not dictate.
I would love Carriker, or Moss of course, but I don't think this team needs one DE in order to compete. I think that is the wrong approach, because we have shown we can generate pressure with our personel, as well as stopping the run and being fundamentally sound. Let me know what you guys think.

So give your first 3 or 4 picks. I would love Nelson or Griffith, then Johnson or Crowder, then maybe Mebane or Thomas, then Crosby or darkhorse Garrett ( the RB who was tearing up the world this year I think that's his name) Because Shanny loves his RBS. Thoughts?

[OABB]

I honestly know very little about college football and I would look very stupid if I guessed names, but i echo the sentiments of many people here in regards to wanting a safety in the first round, and then addressing the defensive line in the later rounds. However, My dream would be to trade up for okoye or branch at dt. but in all reality we are staying at 21, and I believe we have a the best shot at nelson.

[bdv]

i echo the sentiments of many people here in regards to wanting a safety in the first round, and then addressing the defensive line in the later rounds.

Oooohhh yeaaaahhh...

A fast, ball-hawking free safety to compliment our cornerback tandem! If we had that, a good run defense, and even an average pass rush, our D would be scary. C'mon Payton, you know you'll relish the challenge to pass it into our secondary, just to see if you can. If we have a big enough lead, we might even let your receivers catch one or two. ROFL!

I'll finish this post with one more plug for us signing some highly-athletic big mf sumo wrestling DTs! Of course, they would need at least a year to learn how to play football... But how hard could it be? ;) It would be an interesting experiment, if nothing else.

-Tim

[Needa Pass Rush]

Needa (better) Pass Rush ........ still.

[Rohirrim]

I believe that an inescapable fundamental of winning football is - You must win in the trenches. It doesn't matter how good your skill players are. You can have the best secondary and the best LBs in the game, and it won't matter. If you give an NFL QB enough time, he will beat you. Every once in a while, somebody puts one of those questions up, "If you were building a new franchise and got to pick the first five players, what positions would you fill first?" My five would be O & D linemen, probably LT and DT with the first two. No matter how evolved and fancy football gets, it still comes down to the same equation - my big guy lines up against your big guy, and knocks the snot out of him. ;D

[Atlas]

It's the salary cap area. Every team has holes. Teams go different directions. The Pats spend their money on the front seven and not much on the secondary, The Colts spend most of their money on offense, The Ravens spend their money on defense.
They Broncos well, they believe the LBers and secondary and to have a workman DL. I mean it has worked Denver did reach the AFC Championship 2 years ago.

I hope they spend 4 draft picks on the DL in the draft.

[Arkansas Bronco]

Winner. We need powerful DTs who keep interior lines honest and protect our LBs so they don't get worn out. As of now we got one ok DT and a bunch of rotational backup types.

Add another big DT with some talent and this front four will look worlds better.

I am on the DT side myself. There are DE that could be a better a big upgrade but I think our DT's are pretty poor.

[Rock Chalk]

Needa (better) Pass Rush ........ still.

Totally sucks you havent had to change your name in all these years.

[cmhargrove]

I would be happy trading up in rounds 1 and 2 and only using 4 picks overall in this draft. (Use our second day picks to move up in the first day)

Trade up a couple spots in round 1 if we think Branch will be available.

There will be one of several pass rushing ends available by the top to middle of the second (Moss, Spencer, Moses). Trade up a couple spots for the best one available.

Use the first third on a safety (Weddle or Wendling)

Use the second third on a linebacker.

Hope RB Mason goes undrafted and pick him up. Pick up some other undrafted safeties and linebackers to fill in our special teams.

Done deal. Superbowl.

[orinjkrush]

talent is as important as scheme. we have tried to scheme without talent, with inconsistent results. we need the talent to make any scheme as effective as it can be. we need better talent on the DL and hopefully a youngster with lots of energy can make an immediate impact. we have enough B and B- players now, we need an A talent on the DL. IMHO.