Cities set limits on serving food to homeless people

[alkemical]

Cities set limits on serving food to homeless people (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-03-26-homeless-laws_N.htm?csp=1)

Cities are cracking down on charities that feed the homeless, adopting rules that restrict food giveaways to certain locations, require charities to get permits or limit the number of free meals they can provide.
Orlando, Dallas, Las Vegas and Wilmington, N.C., began enforcing such laws last year. Some are being challenged.

Last November, a federal judge blocked the Las Vegas law banning food giveaways to the poor in city parks. In Dallas, two ministries are suing, arguing that the law violates religious freedom.


DALLAS HOMLESS: The 'Lord's table' deemed illegal

"Going after the volunteers is new," says Michael Stoops of the National Coalition for the Homeless. "They think that by not feeding people, it will make the homeless people leave."

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City officials say the rules were prompted by complaints about crime and food safety. Some say they want control over locations so homeless people can also get services such as addiction counseling and job training.

"The feedings were happening several times a week" in parking lots and sidewalks downtown, says Dewey Harris, director of Wilmington's Community Services Department. "A lot of the merchants said, 'We feel uncomfortable when you have all these homeless being fed downtown when we're trying to attract tourists.' "

Last March, the city restricted meals on public property to designated locations and required a permit. One spot has been approved: a city park parking lot.

Dallas also limits outdoor food giveaways to approved locations. Those distributing food must take a food-handling course and get a city permit, says Karen Rayzer, director of environmental and health services. A violator can be fined $2,000.

Orlando adopted an ordinance in July that requires a permit to serve more than 25 people in a park within 2 miles of City Hall, where most food giveaways were taking place. An applicant may serve twice a year in each park.

"This ordinance wasn't established to ban feeding," says city spokeswoman Heather Allebaugh. She acknowledges that some groups ignore the law.

City Commissioner Robert Stuart voted against it. He is executive director of the Christian Service Center for Central Florida, which feeds 325 homeless people a day but, as private property, is not affected.

"It's not fair to take a population without a home and make them criminals," he says. "And I don't think we ought to be limiting the opportunity to help others."

[Dudeskey]

Sucks that helping people w/ a simple meal has to be so problematic... It doesn't say anything about clamping down on indoor soup kitchens though which is good.

[alkemical]

Nope, i believe this has to deal with just the groups that show up at location X - at Y time - and don't have any permits, etc.

I find it funny that it appears helping the homeless is becoming sort of criminalized.

[Garcia Bronco]

I can see the logic behind it....if you take away supply they need will eventually disappear...but dang....when do you cut off the line?

[alkemical]

I can see the logic behind it....if you take away supply they need will eventually disappear...but dang....when do you cut off the line?

lol man, being homless isn't a supply and demand issue - they don't just disappear....

[yavoon]

lol man, being homless isn't a supply and demand issue - they don't just disappear....

there have been several studies that show a direct correlation between the amt of money u give the homeless and the number of homeless. I know in my home state its almost exactly proportional, increase homeless spending by x amt get x amt more homeless.

[Bronco Bob]

there have been several studies that show a direct correlation between the amt of money u give the homeless and the number of homeless. I know in my home state its almost exactly proportional, increase homeless spending by x amt get x amt more homeless.

So basically the more free food people get, the more likely they are
to abandon their homes to get this free food. Makes perfect sense to me.

Hey, I've just hit upon the solution to the homeless problem. Let's start
starving people, and this will force them to find homes. Anyone done
a study to see if this has worked in Ethiopia? ROFL!

[yavoon]

So basically the more free food people get, the more likely they are
to abandon their homes to get this free food. Makes perfect sense to me.

Hey, I've just hit upon the solution to the homeless problem. Let's start
starving people, and this will force them to find homes. Anyone done
a study to see if this has worked in Ethiopia? ROFL!

the more money u spend on homeless the more homeless there will be. I do not know the exact dynamic of this. on some levels it makes perfect sense, on others its a lil odd. but it is true. I suppose u could give them so much money that they can buy homes, solving even more of the homeless problem. but as u might imagine, u'd create millions more ppl willing to not work and live in a house.

[Garcia Bronco]

lol man, being homless isn't a supply and demand issue - they don't just disappear....

haha..Right,,,what I mean is you encourage it to a degree.

[broncocalijohn]

lol man, being homless isn't a supply and demand issue - they don't just disappear....


I think they want them to dissappear from their town. Homeless will go where they can get the most for their needs. If town A has one homeless shelter with 20 beds and one meal and town B has 4 homeless shelters with 100 beds and 3 meals a day, I think I know where the homeless will go. The cities will also know where more crime will be committed.

[broncocalijohn]

So basically the more free food people get, the more likely they are
to abandon their homes to get this free food. Makes perfect sense to me.

Hey, I've just hit upon the solution to the homeless problem. Let's start
starving people, and this will force them to find homes. Anyone done
a study to see if this has worked in Ethiopia? ROFL!

God, I hope you arent comparing the prosperity in America with that of a 3rd world (4th world) country that has horrible conditions in almost every catagory?

[alkemical]

haha..Right,,,what I mean is you encourage it to a degree.

To a degree, i agree with ya. Even as baja states - even though there are some benifits at times (not everything was bad) - it does suck for the most of it.

I'm telling you though man - it's not all easy and free like everyone thinks. Everything has a cost to it. I think alot of times people think it's all nice and great - it's not. I think alot of people think its easy - not really.

[alkemical]

I think they want them to dissappear from their town. Homeless will go where they can get the most for their needs. If town A has one homeless shelter with 20 beds and one meal and town B has 4 homeless shelters with 100 beds and 3 meals a day, I think I know where the homeless will go. The cities will also know where more crime will be committed.


That's just it duuude - it doesn't dissappear. It just gets dispersed. Your A/B example is flawed - 3 meals a day doesn't nec. mean more homeless. Example: Alot of didn't go to churches that served 3 meals a day because you had to listen to some sales pitch on religion. When i was in that situation i'd rather go to a place that allowed me my dignity, and wouldn't treat me as an animal. Why will cities know where more crimes are commited? Because middle class punks are killing them? Humans truely are cannibals.

[Garcia Bronco]

To a degree, i agree with ya. Even as baja states - even though there are some benifits at times (not everything was bad) - it does suck for the most of it.

I'm telling you though man - it's not all easy and free like everyone thinks. Everything has a cost to it. I think alot of times people think it's all nice and great - it's not. I think alot of people think its easy - not really.

That's why I don't understand why some in a sense chose to do it.

[alkemical]

That's why I don't understand why some in a sense chose to do it.

Garcia,

In some ways it was the most free i ever was. I can't really explain it to you. But once i got over the "fear" of it, it was the most liberating overall expierence i have ever felt. If i ever go homeless again, it will be by choice and for that reason.


Some choose a vice, and it leads there - so in a way they do choose it.

Some are happy, some are not and some lie and tell you they choose it.

Trust me, there are worse things in life than being homeless.

[Garcia Bronco]

Garcia,

In some ways it was the most free i ever was. I can't really explain it to you. But once i got over the "fear" of it, it was the most liberating overall expierence i have ever felt. If i ever go homeless again, it will be by choice and for that reason.


Some choose a vice, and it leads there - so in a way they do choose it.

Some are happy, some are not and some lie and tell you they choose it.

Trust me, there are worse things in life than being homeless.

You went homeless? I did not know that. Or rather when I met TJ he said someone had done that...but I didn't understand who. I bet it would feel very liberating. What did brad pitt's character say in fight club.."the stuff you own...ends up owning you."

[alkemical]

You went homeless? I did not know that. Or rather when I met TJ he said someone had done that...but I didn't understand who. I bet it would feel very liberating. What did brad pitt's character say in fight club.."the stuff you own...ends up owning you."

Ya i spent a few months in seattle doing some urban camping if you will.

Most humbling thing: Taking your **** to the pawn shop and getting a "real world" price on what your stuff is worth. Eventually when it was time to go and come back home - i had pawned everything. I had two bags of clothes, a set of bongos and 4 books. Everything else, i gave away or sold.

really -that quote from fight club is very true - it's also like aurthurs champion knight - all that you own is yourself - the goal is to not have anyone own you. That's why i am who i am Garcia. That's why i'm an anarcho/libertarian. It's why i get so frustrated people in our "western" culture. It's why i'm so disguisted at times with our mass consumerism - It's why at one time i was paranoid of the state becoming a monster - and realize it's really want people want. They want to have their animal needs of being broke and trained like a common animal, instead of the chaos that comes with the unknown.

I've always been an outsider garcia - and i love it - once you get used to being ok with what is in your heart and in your head - all alone with your thoughts - you don't need anything. The world is within.

[broncocalijohn]

That's just it duuude - it doesn't dissappear. It just gets dispersed. Your A/B example is flawed - 3 meals a day doesn't nec. mean more homeless. Example: Alot of didn't go to churches that served 3 meals a day because you had to listen to some sales pitch on religion. When i was in that situation i'd rather go to a place that allowed me my dignity, and wouldn't treat me as an animal. Why will cities know where more crimes are commited? Because middle class punks are killing them? Humans truely are cannibals.

Come on. Blaming middle class punks to more crime where homeless are is a complete cop out. Not saying punks dont shoot off paint guns and such as it has happened but is not the norm. What is the norm is ramped drug use, sex for hire, etc. Look the crime in skid row in LA.

[alkemical]

Come on. Blaming middle class punks to more crime where homeless are is a complete cop out. Not saying punks dont shoot off paint guns and such as it has happened but is not the norm. What is the norm is ramped drug use, sex for hire, etc. Look the crime in skid row in LA.

You mean like the homeless are the cause of all the ills of society?

F U

[bendog]

Sure there are some malingerers, but that's a very small percetage. However, there is some logic to govt making food distribution centralized, or at several sites in a community, where other services like educ, mental health, etc can be made available.

If the fed rachets up rates, we're gonna see a jump in homeless moms with kids living in cars. And that will suck

[gunns]

I don't think they are responsible for all of society's ills but here in SLC it was found that 74% of all crime committed in Salt Lake County were by someone who claimed to be homeless. As far as the feeding part, a large portion of those that take advantage of those free meals are not truly homeless. Those are the ones I would worry about as some are low income parents trying to supplement a meal or two. The homeless are well taken care of here and as one said to me when I asked him when he last worked, he said he didn't need to because I do.

[enjolras]

In Dallas the homeless feedings where more religious conversion exercises than actual 'feedings'. They where using the guise of handing out food to also harass passerbys about their religion (not only the homeless). The feeding part allowed them a loophole around much of the assembly permitting process. I was witness to this more than once..

Dallas simply closed the loophole.

[broncocalijohn]

You mean like the homeless are the cause of all the ills of society?

F U

How in the F do you get that from my statement? Societies ills are from all over. Many ills of society become homeless ie. drug usage. Homelessness are the effect of social ills. I dont think starting wars comes from the homeless. Hit and run accidents? I bet not too many come from the homeless. Before you go off on a tangent, read a simple statement before mouthing off. My statement was simple. A few crimes happen to homeless from middle class punks (like in Florida where 2 10 year olds and a 17 year old assualted with a brick to a homeless guy). Much more crimes happen from homeless to middle class than middle class to homeless.