Tiger Woods > Jack

[azbroncfan]

Woods is the best golfer to ever tee it up. He wins 20 percent of the time and take out a couple swing change years and he wins more. Barring injury he will smash Jacks majors records. Guy is clutch only losing once when going into final round with a lead.

[Dagmar]

The man is a machine. Different eras though. They are both the greats of the game, without a doubt.

[Houshyamama]

Until he gets the records, you have to give the title of Greatest of All Time to Jack. That said, there is no doubt in my mind Tiger will win 20+ majors and break Sam Snead's wins record.

[CBF1]

Tiger is very KOBE-like :)

I await the bashing

[rbackfactory80]

He would be even better if he started hitting some fairways with his driver. Apparently he doesn't need it.

[Garcia Bronco]

Again...another guy that Kobe can't compare to.

Tiger is unreal...I agree it's different eras with juiced equipment, but still...Tiger is the man.

[Rohirrim]

Jack has 18 majors. Tiger has 10. We'll see.

[rbackfactory80]

Jack has 18 majors. Tiger has 10. We'll see.

Actually Tiger has won 12.

[watermock]

Equipment may be better, I think Jack used real woods, but conversely, courses have continually tried to make the courses more difficult at the same time.

I don't recall the course, but there was a dogleg left that players were cutting by going into the neighboring fareway. I think it's Augusta not sure. The course actually transplanted a FULL grown tree...that's not an easy task as a grown tree is just hangin' out like an old man in a rocker. They are fighting to grow anymore. Anyway, that's what I recall...cured that little annoyance. Heh.

If he could straighten out his drives he would be completely unstoppable. He's winning with irons off the tee.

[defenseman]

Woods is the best golfer to ever tee it up. He wins 20 percent of the time and take out a couple swing change years and he wins more. Barring injury he will smash Jacks majors records. Guy is clutch only losing once when going into final round with a lead.

Palmer has my vote. He's got Woods beat in the "class" he displayed on the course in addition to his golfing abilities. In short, Tiger can be "outclassed"...dman

[bendog]

Comparing Ruth to Aaron....

But, does anyone thing that Tiger has any challengers in Palmer's or Watson's skill level?

Similary Sampras had Agassi, but Federer is either really really out of this world, or it's just a rather boring era for men's tennis ... which is more boring at the best of times than paint drying, imo.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Palmer has my vote. He's got Woods beat in the "class" he displayed on the course in addition to his golfing abilities. In short, Tiger can be "outclassed"...dmanTiger Woods lacks nothing in his golf game including class.

[bendog]

Yeah, that one went by me, too.

btw, I read somthing on Trevino. In reality he was really mentally tight. The Merry Mex was a persona he brought out. He was a loner on the tour, because he was uneasy about mixing socially with people who didn't grow up in poverty. And maybe race. At least one marriage blew up, and he was estranged from his kids. Not that Trevino lacked class. He was probably my fav golfer of the era, because of what he overcame (poverty and injury), and the fake snake that the tossed at Niklaus was a priceless gem.

[azbroncfan]

Yeah, that one went by me, too.

btw, I read somthing on Trevino. In reality he was really mentally tight. The Merry Mex was a persona he brought out. He was a loner on the tour, because he was uneasy about mixing socially with people who didn't grow up in poverty. And maybe race. At least one marriage blew up, and he was estranged from his kids. Not that Trevino lacked class. He was probably my fav golfer of the era, because of what he overcame (poverty and injury), and the fake snake that the tossed at Niklaus was a priceless gem.


The merry mex is one of my favorite too and he was the best character to play the game with a homemade game that was awesome.

As far as the equipment argument if they went back to persimmins clubs and balatas Tiger would be winning too. He was one of the last to switch to oversized driver and the new golf balls (hence phil mickleson comments a couple years ago that were a compliment that the media turned into sh!t talking).

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

I have never seen Tiger in person, but some of my impressions fo the ones I have seen live are:

Arnold Palmer - Pure Class
Jack Nickolas - I have followed him around Cherry Hills twice and Castle Pines - he was a d*ck to the crowd.
Tevino - great with the crowd - a real entertainer
Watson - polite, but not into interacting with the crowd.
Fuzzy Zoeller - the class clown
Crenshaw - very nice and polite
Casper - also nice and polite to the crowd
Raymond Floyd - the biggest d*ck of all
Sam Snead and Julius Boros - saw them both at a Seniors Tournment when neither could walk the course - Attendence for the tourney was very low and they were very engaging and took time between shots to have conversations with us - very nice guys.
Miller Barber - Another class clown who would probably sit down and have a beer with you in the tent if he could.
Mickelson - another d*ck
David Graham - we spent about a half hour talking to his wife on one of the fairways. Very classy woman. Told us lots of stories about the tour.
Nick Price - A real Gentleman

[Cito Pelon]

Woods is the best golfer to ever tee it up. He wins 20 percent of the time and take out a couple swing change years and he wins more. Barring injury he will smash Jacks majors records. Guy is clutch only losing once when going into final round with a lead.

Tiger doesn't have to face anywhere near the competition Nicklaus had to deal with in the final round. Not to mention Woods went from a pudgy kid to NFL safety size in a year and half. Smells like steroids to me.

[azbroncfan]

Tiger doesn't have to face anywhere near the competition Nicklaus had to deal with in the final round. Not to mention Woods went from a pudgy kid to NFL safety size in a year and half. Smells like steroids to me.


He does as he is just far superior to them that it makes the competition look bad.
Calling him pudgy makes me wonder if you saw him play in the late 90's as he was as thin as a broom stick.

[Rohirrim]

My favorite Trevino story: Trevino and Nicklaus are teeing it up to start the last round of a tournament where they are both tied. When Nicklaus played, he didn't talk to anybody but his caddy. His method of play required silence and concentration (we can thank Nicklaus for all the people who now take ten minutes to line up a ****ing putt). Trevino would talk to anybody and everybody during a round, and constantly joke around. It's how he stayed loose. So, on the first tee, Jack turns to Lee and says, "I would rather not talk during the round, if you don't mind."

So Lee says, "That's okay, Jack. You can just listen." ;D


As far as that Nicklaus thing of taking so bloody long over a shot, if you ever get the chance to see the old films of the greatest golfer of all time, Bobby Jones, play the game, notice how much time he took to line up a putt. It was seconds.

[Dagmar]

I have never seen Tiger in person, but some of my impressions fo the ones I have seen live are:

Arnold Palmer - Pure Class
Jack Nickolas - I have followed him around Cherry Hills twice and Castle Pines - he was a d*ck to the crowd.
Tevino - great with the crowd - a real entertainer
Watson - polite, but not into interacting with the crowd.
Fuzzy Zoeller - the class clown
Crenshaw - very nice and polite
Casper - also nice and polite to the crowd
Raymond Floyd - the biggest d*ck of all
Sam Snead and Julius Boros - saw them both at a Seniors Tournment when neither could walk the course - Attendence for the tourney was very low and they were very engaging and took time between shots to have conversations with us - very nice guys.
Miller Barber - Another class clown who would probably sit down and have a beer with you in the tent if he could.
Mickelson - another d*ck
David Graham - we spent about a half hour talking to his wife on one of the fairways. Very classy woman. Told us lots of stories about the tour.
Nick Price - A real Gentleman

This may not be popular, but I loved following Seve round when I was a kid with my dad. There was a character. Same with Sergio Garcia. And Greg Norman was a gent.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Tiger doesn't have to face anywhere near the competition Nicklaus had to deal with in the final round. Not to mention Woods went from a pudgy kid to NFL safety size in a year and half. Smells like steroids to me.
This is probably as far off the mark as one can possibly get. Woods was NEVER pudgy but thin as a rail. The competition now is FAR superior to what Nicklaus faced but Woods is even that much better.

He sleeps only 5 or 6 hours a day and works out for hours most every day he isn't playing.

This may not be popular, but I loved following Seve round when I was a kid with my dad. There was a character. Same with Sergio Garcia. And Greg Norman was a gent. Garcia just become the tour idiot after this week.

[Dedhed]

Actually Tiger has won 12.

Jack has 18 Majors. Tiger has 12. We'll see.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Garcia spits into the cup after missing putt.

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[phisig150]

Did the Shining, China Town, and Cuckoo's Nest meaning nothing to you man? Tiger is not even a tenth of the actor as Jack is. Plus he he has lifetime courtside Laker tickets. How badass is that?

[azbroncfan]

Jack has 18 Majors. Tiger has 12. We'll see.

Check out the pace. Tiger wins 1 in every 5 tournaments he enters and he has 10 more dominant years in his prime and only needs 1 major every 2 years for the next 12. Barring injury it is a done deal he will break the record. Tiger is the best player to ever tee it up whether or not you like him or not. There has never been a more feared player, just look how players choke at the final round when tied or slightly ahead of him on the scoreboard.

[Rohirrim]

Sergio is a POS.

[defenseman]

Tiger Woods lacks nothing in his golf game including class.

You have your opinion...dman

[orange 4 life]

Woods is the best golfer to ever tee it up. He wins 20 percent of the time and take out a couple swing change years and he wins more. Barring injury he will smash Jacks majors records. Guy is clutch only losing once when going into final round with a lead.

im with you 100%, except i think its important to say that he WILL BE the greatest ever.
his win percentage is out of this world, his competition is stiff, and his ability to change and adapt is amazing.
that said, he hasnt YET taken over as "best ever" simply because he hasnt done it long enough yet. ever look at how many times jack finished 2nd in a major? staggering.
when (notice i say "when" as i believe its a certainty barring injury) tiger beats jacks records, we can make it official.

jake

ps- note on the competition. while jack had more GREAT players competing with him (palmer, player, trevino, watson, miller, etc.) the competition dropped off in a big way after those top players.
in todays world, the guy ranked 100 can actually win, and that just wasnt the case back in the day.
tiger will be the best ever, but he's not there yet. just my .02

[orange 4 life]

Tiger doesn't have to face anywhere near the competition Nicklaus had to deal with in the final round. Not to mention Woods went from a pudgy kid to NFL safety size in a year and half. Smells like steroids to me.

read my other post on the competition.

your argument is consistently thrown out there, but the fact is that after the dominant players in jacks era, you had a bunch of guys that just couldnt compete.
conversely, now we LACK the dominating players we had back then (lefty is the only one that has a chance if he can overcome his demons), but there's a TON of guys that can get hot and win which just wasnt so back then.
overall, tiger is the one facing stiffer competition.

[azbroncfan]

read my other post on the competition.

your argument is consistently thrown out there, but the fact is that after the dominant players in jacks era, you had a bunch of guys that just couldnt compete.
conversely, now we LACK the dominating players we had back then (lefty is the only one that has a chance if he can overcome his demons), but there's a TON of guys that can get hot and win which just wasnt so back then.
overall, tiger is the one facing stiffer competition.

Where you been Jake? The competition argument works in Tiger's favor. Kids in HS now are shooting really low scores and starting golf at a really young age. The equipment argument doesn't work because Tiger would win using the old equipment if they made everyone switch back to it. He used to use a steel shafted Titleist D until a couple years ago with an older style ball and was one of the last to change. He also used a titleist PT 3 wood which is pretty old too.

[ZONA]

The way I see it is that Tiger competes with an all around much better field since there are more better players in today's game since it's a much more recognized sport and more people play it. However, Jack didn't have to play against a huge pool of good players like Tiger, but he did have to play against a better top portion of the field. Guys in Jacks day were winning alot of majors (see......Arnold, Trevino, Player, Watson, just to name a few). Not only did Jack win 20 majors, he came in 2nd like 15 times or somethng like that. Many of those 1 or 2 stroke losses. A few more putts and he would have had like 30 majors. In Jack's day, there were actually quite a few clutch players like himself. Today it seems somebody gets close to Tiger and wins a few majors, then falls off again (see.....Els, Mickelson, Singh).

But the real beauty is golf itself. It's really the only sport that can say beyound a doubt, the person who wins truly was the best player for that event. In most sports, you have bad calls by umps, refs, etc that can determine outcomes of games. In golf, there is no doubt when that little white ball rolls into the hole. It goes in or it doesn't. Pure and simple.

[orange 4 life]

Where you been Jake? The competition argument works in Tiger's favor. Kids in HS now are shooting really low scores and starting golf at a really young age. The equipment argument doesn't work because Tiger would win using the old equipment if they made everyone switch back to it. He used to use a steel shafted Titleist D until a couple years ago with an older style ball and was one of the last to change. He also used a titleist PT 3 wood which is pretty old too.

i finally had the back surgery 3 weeks ago, so ive been laid up for awhile. its good to be back!!

many people bring up competition and equipment to side with jack, but i agree with you 100%.
tigers faces stiffer competition, and since equipment was more uniform back then, that means its tiger who is at more of a disatvantage.

jack did finish second in a major 19 times (a dubious honor that i doubt tiger will ever come close to achieving), but its not about finishing second, and when its all said and done tiger should eclipse the 20 mark and put this issue to rest.
when he does that, most everyone will agree.

[azbroncfan]

Since there is a soccer thread on the main board might as well be a golf thread. At this pace Tiger will have every golf record by the time he is 40. Tiger is going to cruise to his 15th major this weekend. He is the best golfer to play and is best finisher to play in any sport.

[ZONA]

Since there is a soccer thread on the main board might as well be a golf thread. At this pace Tiger will have every golf record by the time he is 40. Tiger is going to cruise to his 15th major this weekend. He is the best golfer to play and is best finisher to play in any sport.

When woods wins 20 majors then you can have your party. Don't count the chickens before they hatch, it's not smart. Interview with Tiger last year he said until he wins the same amount or more majors then JN, he can't be in the discussion. If you want to play fairytale and pretend what's gonna happen down the road, go ahead. But for right now, JN is the best that has played and even Tiger himself says so.

Sorry to rain on your parade dude.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

When woods wins 20 majors then you can have your party. Don't count the chickens before they hatch, it's not smart. Interview with Tiger last year he said until he wins the same amount or more majors then JN, he can't be in the discussion. If you want to play fairytale and pretend what's gonna happen down the road, go ahead. But for right now, JN is the best that has played and even Tiger himself says so.

Sorry to rain on your parade dude.He has already won 14, 15 after Sunday. He is only 33 and has won 69 tournaments already. There has never been anyone close to him....... in any era.

[Rock Chalk]

Comparing Ruth to Aaron....

But, does anyone thing that Tiger has any challengers in Palmer's or Watson's skill level?

Similary Sampras had Agassi, but Federer is either really really out of this world, or it's just a rather boring era for men's tennis ... which is more boring at the best of times than paint drying, imo.

I think this is a fair point. Tiger doesn't have to continually play against elite competition on the level of what Jack played against.

That being said, I do think Tiger is either the best or in the top 2, to ever play the game. Do I think he would dominate so completely had he played in Jack's era? No. Do I think he would have been consistently one of the top golfers in Jack's era? Yes. His name would be right there with Jack, Palmer, Watson, Norman, Trevino and Rodriguez every week in every tournament.

His dominance in the 4th round is amazing BUT, is it all him or is it the fact that there isn't a single player other than Tiger playing right now who could dominate back in Jack's era? Other than Norman, the aforementioned players were all clutch golfers in the 4th round.

He still probably would have won a good share of the tournaments in that era, but I am skeptical he would just completely outclass all those golfers. Definitely in their league, and yes maybe even better but not so much better than he is ahead of the rest of the field now.

[worm]

He has already won 14, 15 after Sunday. He is only 33 and has won 69 tournaments already. There has never been anyone close to him....... in any era.

Congrats. You are the ONLY one in this thread who quoted the correct # of majors Tiger has won.

Amazing how people can post so authoritatively on a subject that they clearly dont even have the basic information straight.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Congrats. You are the ONLY one in this thread who quoted the correct # of majors Tiger has won.

Amazing how people can post so authoritatively on a subject that they clearly dont even have the basic information straight.Well, to be fair, I think those guys had the numbers right at the time since this thread was started over 2 years ago. :)

[worm]

Well, to be fair, I think those guys had the numbers right at the time since this thread was started over 2 years ago. :)

DOH!

My faith in the Mane has been restored. Well...until I open a football, religion, or politics related thread. :)

[atomicbloke]

We are in ON Season mode.

What is this stupid thread doing here?

[azbroncfan]

We are in ON Season mode.

What is this stupid thread doing here?

Pot calling Kettle black kind of aren't you since you posted several times in the soccer thread?

[ZONA]

We are in ON Season mode.

What is this stupid thread doing here?

It's the last major of the year, relax.

[azbroncfan]

I think this is a fair point. Tiger doesn't have to continually play against elite competition on the level of what Jack played against.

That being said, I do think Tiger is either the best or in the top 2, to ever play the game. Do I think he would dominate so completely had he played in Jack's era? No. Do I think he would have been consistently one of the top golfers in Jack's era? Yes. His name would be right there with Jack, Palmer, Watson, Norman, Trevino and Rodriguez every week in every tournament.

His dominance in the 4th round is amazing BUT, is it all him or is it the fact that there isn't a single player other than Tiger playing right now who could dominate back in Jack's era? Other than Norman, the aforementioned players were all clutch golfers in the 4th round.

He still probably would have won a good share of the tournaments in that era, but I am skeptical he would just completely outclass all those golfers. Definitely in their league, and yes maybe even better but not so much better than he is ahead of the rest of the field now.

Pretty much any golfer in the field right now on the PGA tour can win on any given week. In fact guys on the nationwide tour can win on the PGA tour right now. The level of competition only favors the argument for Tiger. Jack played when there were only a handful of guys winning all the tournaments. Barring injury this debate will be over in a few years.

I find it interesting you put Rodriguez in the category with all those guys. Rodriguez was a slightly above average PGA tour golfer. Kenny Perry, David Duval, Furyk, and a bunch of other guys were much better than he was and are a class below the other greats including Tiger.

[azbroncfan]

When woods wins 20 majors then you can have your party. Don't count the chickens before they hatch, it's not smart. Interview with Tiger last year he said until he wins the same amount or more majors then JN, he can't be in the discussion. If you want to play fairytale and pretend what's gonna happen down the road, go ahead. But for right now, JN is the best that has played and even Tiger himself says so.

Sorry to rain on your parade dude.

So Tiger has to win 20 majors to be considered better than Jack? What if he finishes his career with 19 or tied with 18? Barring injury it is pretty easy to see Tiger will get it done. Guy's winning percentage has to be about 30 percent for all the tournaments he has played in his career.

[Houshyamama]

I think this is a fair point. Tiger doesn't have to continually play against elite competition on the level of what Jack played against.

That being said, I do think Tiger is either the best or in the top 2, to ever play the game. Do I think he would dominate so completely had he played in Jack's era? No. Do I think he would have been consistently one of the top golfers in Jack's era? Yes. His name would be right there with Jack, Palmer, Watson, Norman, Trevino and Rodriguez every week in every tournament.

His dominance in the 4th round is amazing BUT, is it all him or is it the fact that there isn't a single player other than Tiger playing right now who could dominate back in Jack's era? Other than Norman, the aforementioned players were all clutch golfers in the 4th round.

He still probably would have won a good share of the tournaments in that era, but I am skeptical he would just completely outclass all those golfers. Definitely in their league, and yes maybe even better but not so much better than he is ahead of the rest of the field now.

Great golfers didn't all just disappear when Tiger showed up, that's a bit ridiculous. There are plenty of great golfers out there, they have just been completely overshadowed by what is so far the greatest golfing career of all time bar-none. He may never break Jack's majors record or Sneads wins total, but up until this point there is no comparison. He's the greatest golfer to ever play the game and I'd bet large sums of money he'd have more majors than Jack if they played in the same era.

[Rock Chalk]

Pretty much any golfer in the field right now on the PGA tour can win on any given week. In fact guys on the nationwide tour can win on the PGA tour right now. The level of competition only favors the argument for Tiger. Jack played when there were only a handful of guys winning all the tournaments. Barring injury this debate will be over in a few years.

I find it interesting you put Rodriguez in the category with all those guys. Rodriguez was a slightly above average PGA tour golfer. Kenny Perry, David Duval, Furyk, and a bunch of other guys were much better than he was and are a class below the other greats including Tiger.
I put Chi Chi in there simply because he had a short stretch there where he was playing great golf and I couldnt remember some of the other greats (I do remember Duval and Furyk now that you mention them).

[Rock Chalk]

Great golfers didn't all just disappear when Tiger showed up, that's a bit ridiculous. There are plenty of great golfers out there, they have just been completely overshadowed by what is so far the greatest golfing career of all time bar-none. He may never break Jack's majors record or Sneads wins total, but up until this point there is no comparison. He's the greatest golfer to ever play the game and I'd bet large sums of money he'd have more majors than Jack if they played in the same era.

And I wouldnt argue with you.

But I am almost certain that if Tiger played in Jack's era you would see a much better competition field for him and he MOST LIKELY wouldnt have the 20% tournament win ration and 69 tournament wins to this point in his career.

[Houshyamama]

And I wouldnt argue with you.

But I am almost certain that if Tiger played in Jack's era you would see a much better competition field for him and he MOST LIKELY wouldnt have the 20% tournament win ration and 69 tournament wins to this point in his career.

I've thought about this quite a bit myself and I just don't know... As sports fans we tend to romanticize the past. The sheer size of the talent pool for professional golfers today is a great argument against the idea of today's competition being anemic compared to the 60s-80s. Not to mention the change in technology and golf course design. Ernie Els is a great golfer. Vijay Singh is a great golfer. I would argue that if they played in the day of Arnold Palmer they would have been just as dominant as other former greats and even tested Nicklaus. I've become certain that Tiger is just that much better. He's a once in a hundred years talent, just my opinion from watching his career and also watching quite a few of the tourneys the old timers played in.

[atomicbloke]

Pot calling Kettle black kind of aren't you since you posted several times in the soccer thread?

And you asked me the same question in that thread.....

Yeah... Pot calling Kettle black indeed....

[orange 4 life]

Woods is the best golfer to ever tee it up. He wins 20 percent of the time and take out a couple swing change years and he wins more. Barring injury he will smash Jacks majors records. Guy is clutch only losing once when going into final round with a lead.

Maybe he is, and maybe he ISN'T.

While he is sure to break Jack's record of 18 majors (and maybe soon), he has still failed to win one from behind (and had many opportunities), and he will never come CLOSE to Jack's amazing stat of finishing second NINETEEN times.

Bottom line is golf is a differen't game now, and there are more players now capable of winning an event than there were back in Jack's day, but there are NOT EVEN CLOSE to as much talent in the top ten.

In other words, Jack was always going against the likes of Trevino, Palmer, Watson, Miller, Player, and others while Tiger's biggest competition has been Duval early on and Mickelson since. Both great players (though of course Duval unfortunately has fallen off other than his amazing Open week) but not the likes of the competition Jack faced.

Also, I don't think you can ignore Bobby Jones. Only guy to win the grand slam (same year) and completely dominant in his time.
Kind of like the Floyd Little or Gale Sayers of golf. He may not have played as long as others, but he was BY FAR the best when he did play. Just my .02.

[rbackfactory80]

The more I think of it the more I would take Jack. Never winning one from even 1 stroke behind bothers me. The best player ever has to be able to overcome all situations, not to mention the gutless fields Tiger faces weekly.

[azbroncfan]

Never winning one from even 1 stroke behind bothers me. The best player ever has to be able to overcome all situations, not to mention the gutless fields Tiger faces weekly.

That's only because when his game is on he is so much better than everyone else he always leads going into the final round in majors. He has come from behind before but it has always been in round 3. The masters a few years ago he was 10 strokes behind going into the 3rd. There is so much more talent in the field now than in Jacks day. Like I said before alternates can win a tournament with no practice rounds. Nationwide tour players can win on the PGA tour. I will say Jack is the best until his record is broken but you can see it will happen.

[azbroncfan]

Maybe he is, and maybe he ISN'T.

While he is sure to break Jack's record of 18 majors (and maybe soon), he has still failed to win one from behind (and had many opportunities), and he will never come CLOSE to Jack's amazing stat of finishing second NINETEEN times.

Bottom line is golf is a differen't game now, and there are more players now capable of winning an event than there were back in Jack's day, but there are NOT EVEN CLOSE to as much talent in the top ten.


Also, I don't think you can ignore Bobby Jones. Only guy to win the grand slam (same year) and completely dominant in his time.
Kind of like the Floyd Little or Gale Sayers of golf. He may not have played as long as others, but he was BY FAR the best when he did play. Just my .02.
Tiger has 5 second place finishes and another incredible stat is he has never lost a tournament when holding more than a stroke lead going into the final round.

Bobby Jones who was great got credit for the US amateur's which if Jack and Tiger could count them Tiger would be one major closer to Jack since he won 3 to Jacks 2.

[lod01]

Woods is the best golfer to ever tee it up. He wins 20 percent of the time and take out a couple swing change years and he wins more. Barring injury he will smash Jacks majors records. Guy is clutch only losing once when going into final round with a lead.

LMAO. What an idiot. He was 'inujred for less than 1 year. Let's see him play against some competition that craves winning like they did back in the 60's - 80's. Now days, they just come out, collect their paycheck, do some ensorsements and head home. There is no competition for Woods. Also, let's see him play with Jack's sticks circa 1970's. He wouldn't be anywhere near as good as he is.

[Garcia Bronco]

Jack played with L-grove clubs, which the pros will be forced to use next year. Expect the European plays to step ahead because they play the pitch and run better. Squared grove clubs allow players to put more spin on the ball and throw darts on soft greens. We'll see what happens.

[BroncoMan4ever]

Woods is the best golfer to ever tee it up. He wins 20 percent of the time and take out a couple swing change years and he wins more. Barring injury he will smash Jacks majors records. Guy is clutch only losing once when going into final round with a lead.

idk if i agree with you. don;t get me wwrong, i think Tiger is a phenomenal golfer and will end his career as the best ever, but for all his wins, especially his wins when he goes into the final round a couple strokes back of the leaders, a lot of the time it isn't due to his great play that he wins, but more because the players ahead of him choke.

i'm not holding that against him, a win is a win, but it isn't as great of a feat when the leaders heading into the final round piss the day away and he claims a victory for it.

[WolfpackGuy]

Bigger club faces and just better equipment in general.
I would even go as far to say the courses are probably in much better condition today than when Nicklaus played.
It's elementary my dear Watson.

[Houshyamama]

The worship of the past I see in this thread is crazy. The talent pool for golfers now is incredible. There is no way, NO WAY that the talent Jack faced is any greater than the talent Tiger faces. I would even go so far as to call it statistically impossible.

[JJJ]

Tiger is better than Jack. Jack talks like a chipmunk and generally seems to think too much of himself for my liking.

I am an Arnie's Army guy but it is clear Tiger is better than both of the old timers. He will break Jack's major record by end of 2013 and all doubts will be put to rest.

[rbackfactory80]

That's only because when his game is on he is so much better than everyone else he always leads going into the final round in majors. He has come from behind before but it has always been in round 3. The masters a few years ago he was 10 strokes behind going into the 3rd. There is so much more talent in the field now than in Jacks day. Like I said before alternates can win a tournament with no practice rounds. Nationwide tour players can win on the PGA tour. I will say Jack is the best until his record is broken but you can see it will happen.


He has a mental block. Just thinking about all the majors he could have won with a decent final round, he could have passed Jack already. I wanna see him win from behind, and not the Buick open.

[frerottenextelway]

Imho, I don't think it's really close.

Tiger

http://erie-pa.org/images/tiger.jpg


Jack

http://erie-pa.org/images/jack.jpg

The competition argument, I think, is baloney. The number of people playing golf competively across the world now is so much more than it was 30 years ago. There shouldn't be a dominant player like Tiger now-a-days, which only makes his dominance that much more impressive.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

He has a mental block. Just thinking about all the majors he could have won with a decent final round, he could have passed Jack already. I wanna see him win from behind, and not the Buick open.Tiger Woods has a mental block?........Hilarious!

[rbackfactory80]

Tiger Woods has a mental block?........Hilarious!

He should see a sports psychiatrist, but he is way to proud for that.

[azbroncfan]

Tiger Woods has a mental block?........Hilarious!

What do you think the excuses will be for why Jack is better than Tiger when he smashes his records?

I'll bet one of the two. Jack has 19 2nd place finishes or Jack played with better players(which is BS).

[Garcia Bronco]

What do you think the excuses will be for why Jack is better than Tiger when he smashes his records?

I'll bet one of the two. Jack has 19 2nd place finishes or Jack played with better players(which is BS).

You act as if being Jack sucks. Jack was very good. I'll bet money you haven't seen many of his early Wins. He's was very, very good.

[rastaman]

LMAO. What an idiot. He was 'inujred for less than 1 year. Let's see him play against some competition that craves winning like they did back in the 60's - 80's. Now days, they just come out, collect their paycheck, do some ensorsements and head home. There is no competition for Woods. Also, let's see him play with Jack's sticks circa 1970's. He wouldn't be anywhere near as good as he is.

You do know at one point Tiger was dominating to such a degree the PGA actually CHANGED their golf course design to make it much more difficult for Tiger to win!!! I don't believe the PGA ever changed their course designs to make it more difficult for Jack Nickalus was at the top of his game.

So simply put......you are the Greatest Golfer Ever when the PGA found they needed to change their courses so Tiger couldn't dominate and thus give the competition at least a chance to be revalent or have a greater chance of challenging Tiger.

[azbroncfan]

You act as if being Jack sucks. Jack was very good. I'll bet money you haven't seen many of his early Wins. He's was very, very good.

I never said Jack sucked just that Tiger is better. I'll give it to Jack for now because he has more majors but Tiger is way ahead of his pace. The new club changes only help Tiger even more.

[baja]

Comparing Ruth to Aaron....

But, does anyone thing that Tiger has any challengers in Palmer's or Watson's skill level?

Similary Sampras had Agassi, but Federer is either really really out of this world, or it's just a rather boring era for men's tennis ... which is more boring at the best of times than paint drying, imo.

Hey bendog!! I thought your lawn mower ate you. great to hear from you. How you been? This place could use your humor..... badly!

[Houshyamama]

LMAO. What an idiot. He was 'inujred for less than 1 year. Let's see him play against some competition that craves winning like they did back in the 60's - 80's. Now days, they just come out, collect their paycheck, do some ensorsements and head home. There is no competition for Woods. Also, let's see him play with Jack's sticks circa 1970's. He wouldn't be anywhere near as good as he is.

Hilarious!

[Cito Pelon]

Woods is the best golfer to ever tee it up. He wins 20 percent of the time and take out a couple swing change years and he wins more. Barring injury he will smash Jacks majors records. Guy is clutch only losing once when going into final round with a lead.

In fairness to Nicklaus, he had a lot stiffer competition. Some of the greats of the game played right alongside Nicklaus.

Tiger is dang good, but he doesn't have Severiano Ballesteros, Tom Watson, Arnold Palmer, Lee Trevino, Johnny Miller, Hale Irwin, Gary Player, Raymond Floyd, Andy North, Payne Stewart, Ben Crenshaw, Larry Nelson, Dave Stockton, Orville Moody, Billy Casper to compete against.

Tiger has has had lesser competition, sorry.

[Arkie]

I think the competition is tougher today, and it takes more talent just to make the tour. Back in jack's day, the same good golfers were just beating up on a weaker pool of talent each week.

[Circle Orange]

He's the top golfer, and we know he's great and all that. But really, what's the context here? The competition in this era sucks. Either people have the talent and no drive, or the drive and no talent. Or no consistency. How do you call someone "greatest" in a vaccum? It's the Mike Tyson syndrome all over again. And frankly, all the cluster ***** that sit around talking about how great he is are tiresome and boring. Ok, we know. Now what?

[Houshyamama]

In fairness to Nicklaus, he had a lot stiffer competition. Some of the greats of the game played right alongside Nicklaus.

Tiger is dang good, but he doesn't have Severiano Ballesteros, Tom Watson, Arnold Palmer, Lee Trevino, Johnny Miller, Hale Irwin, Gary Player, Raymond Floyd, Andy North, Payne Stewart, Ben Crenshaw, Larry Nelson, Dave Stockton, Orville Moody, Billy Casper to compete against.

Tiger has has had lesser competition, sorry.

This argument just doesn't make any sense. Whatsoever. None. Can you give any logical reasons which support your argument or is it just the same old 'they don't want it is much now as they used to' song? The population of the US in 1960 was 180 million and a far smaller percentage of that population played golf because of its inaccessibility and expense. The population in the US now is well over 300 million, more people play golf and from a much younger age. The talent brought through the system now is much more impressive than it was back then. Because of this, to expect there to be just a few dominant golfers is unrealistic. The numbers just don't support your argument. Vijay Singh would have been just as dominant as Arnold Palmer if he played in the 60s.

This makes Tigers accomplishments all that more amazing.

[Cito Pelon]

That's only because when his game is on he is so much better than everyone else he always leads going into the final round in majors. He has come from behind before but it has always been in round 3. The masters a few years ago he was 10 strokes behind going into the 3rd. There is so much more talent in the field now than in Jacks day. Like I said before alternates can win a tournament with no practice rounds. Nationwide tour players can win on the PGA tour. I will say Jack is the best until his record is broken but you can see it will happen.

Just by a quick count Gary Player, Ballesteros, Irwin, Watson, Trevino, Ray Floyd, Palmer, North, Graham, Jacklin, Stockton, Miller, Nelson those guys won 54 majors.

All those guys are who Nicklaus had to compete against. Woods hasn't had anywhere near that type of competition. Nowhere near it.

Not to mention those guys won a lot of the other tournaments besides Majors. Woods hasn't had anywhere near the competition Nicklaus had to go up against week after week.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronological_list_of_men's_major_golf_champions

[ZONA]

Hold the phone here people. One thing many of you are forgetting is that Nicklaus, Palmer, Watson and even Seve all had won alot of majors early in their careers........up until their early to mid 30s. Then it stopped or slowed down immensely. The early to mid 30's throughout the history of golf has been that transition point of when even the greatest golfers ever had stopped winning majors at such a great pace. Tiger is now what, 33? Like it or not, he is not entering that phase. There won't be any more Tiger Slams and more then likely there won't be more then 1 or 2 majors won per year and continually slowing down even more once he gets into his late 30's to early 40's.

He can break Jacks record, maybe, but golf isn't going to hand it to him on a silver platter.

[Cito Pelon]

My favorite Trevino story: Trevino and Nicklaus are teeing it up to start the last round of a tournament where they are both tied. When Nicklaus played, he didn't talk to anybody but his caddy. His method of play required silence and concentration (we can thank Nicklaus for all the people who now take ten minutes to line up a ****ing putt). Trevino would talk to anybody and everybody during a round, and constantly joke around. It's how he stayed loose. So, on the first tee, Jack turns to Lee and says, "I would rather not talk during the round, if you don't mind."

So Lee says, "That's okay, Jack. You can just listen." ;D


As far as that Nicklaus thing of taking so bloody long over a shot, if you ever get the chance to see the old films of the greatest golfer of all time, Bobby Jones, play the game, notice how much time he took to line up a putt. It was seconds.

Absolutely. This is one of the problems I have with the modern game. These guys spend 10 minutes looking at a short putt, then miss it. I see the same thing out on the course when I play. These hackers on the course, they think they're gonna hit a better shot if they f around looking at their lie for ten minutes, or walking all around the green before they putt.

[Cito Pelon]

Check out the pace. Tiger wins 1 in every 5 tournaments he enters and he has 10 more dominant years in his prime and only needs 1 major every 2 years for the next 12. Barring injury it is a done deal he will break the record. Tiger is the best player to ever tee it up whether or not you like him or not. There has never been a more feared player, just look how players choke at the final round when tied or slightly ahead of him on the scoreboard.

They're not good players, certainly not like the competition Nicklaus, Palmer, Player, Ray Floyd, Watson, Trevino, etc., had to face up against week after week.

[Cito Pelon]

This argument just doesn't make any sense. Whatsoever. None. Can you give any logical reasons which support your argument or is it just the same old 'they don't want it is much now as they used to' song? The population of the US in 1960 was 180 million and a far smaller percentage of that population played golf because of its inaccessibility and expense. The population in the US now is well over 300 million, more people play golf and from a much younger age. The talent brought through the system now is much more impressive than it was back then. Because of this, to expect there to be just a few dominant golfers is unrealistic. The numbers just don't support your argument. Vijay Singh would have been just as dominant as Arnold Palmer if he played in the 60s.

This makes Tigers accomplishments all that more amazing.

Many posters above have pointed out how the other contenders fade on the last day in the Woods era, and it's the truth. I think that's the bottom line.

Woods is the best of his era, but he doesn't have much competition.

[frerottenextelway]

Poor Harrington. After what he did 16 last week, he managed to top that today.

[JJJ]

Poor Harrington. After what he did 16 last week, he managed to top that today.

They will have to come with a name for that hole now. Paddy's Pond or something similiar. That was some kind of ugly meltdown.

[Circle Orange]

I have a terrible idea that the competitors don't really care if Tiger wins everything. I don't care how good anyone is, it's just too convenient the way this script keeps happening over and over. Someone finds a way to lose at the end just as Tiger makes a resurgance. Script at eleven, and all the sycophants rant on about his greatness again. That isn't enough to sustain a sport.

[worm]

I have a terrible idea that the competitors don't really care if Tiger wins everything. I don't care how good anyone is, it's just too convenient the way this script keeps happening over and over. Someone finds a way to lose at the end just as Tiger makes a resurgance. Script at eleven, and all the sycophants rant on about his greatness again. That isn't enough to sustain a sport.

Neilson disagrees.

[SouthStndJunkie]

Yang is giving Tiger all he can handle.

2 holes left in regulation play and Yang is up by a stroke.

[SouthStndJunkie]

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[Atwater His Ass]

lolgolf

[SouthStndJunkie]

Looking like Yang will become the first Asian born player to win a major.

[SouthStndJunkie]

Tiger....no majors for you this year.

Your 54 hole lead streak in majors is done.

[SouthStndJunkie]

Yang did not crumble down the stretch like most do when playing against Tiger.

[azbroncfan]

Tiger finally choked. Yang played some awesome golf down the stretch.

[Circle Orange]

Incredible, a refreshing change of pace...and momentary relief from the sycophants and suckups.

[azbroncfan]

Incredible, a refreshing change of pace...and momentary relief from the sycophants and suckups.

You don't think Jack ever choked?

[JJJ]

Yang's shot on 18 was amazing. Best clutch 5 wood since Corey Pavin.

The little dude was nails.

[frerottenextelway]

Tiger was awesome today. Set a course record 62. Was 3 back on the 5th, and ended the day with a 7 shot lead!

No majors this year, but he's still having a pretty good year. Considering the major injury, it's pretty remarkable (to get the rythm back and all). Looks like he's finally approaching 100%.

[Garcia Bronco]

He'll still win the Fedex Cup. That's a year long thing. I bet he takes it to another level next year. I want to see him win at Augusta.