Krieger says Al wasn't hurt against SF...he was BENCHED!

[spdirty]

Hope this sheds some light.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/sports_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_83_5439886,00.html

Krieger: Wilson fails physical; Broncos fail chemistry


Dave Krieger
email | bioMarch 24, 2007
Not to suggest that your nap went a little long, but when you went to sleep, Al Wilson was the heart and soul of the Broncos defense. When you woke up, he was persona non grata, dangling before the rest of the league like a worm on a hook.

One minute, he's the leader of the fastest linebacking corps in football. The next, the Giants are reportedly nixing a trade for him after giving him a physical exam.

You knew football was a business, but you didn't know it was the used car business.

Here's the deal, as best I can make it out: Wilson has become the top organizational scapegoat for the collapse of the Broncos' defense down the stretch last season.

Well, departed defensive coaches Larry Coyer and Andre Patterson were the first scapegoats, but put down Wilson's name right after them. The organizational view is that Wilson's performance deteriorated as the season went along, to the point that he was called into Mike Shanahan's office near the end of the season and told as much.

In fact, the season finale against San Francisco was the first time in Wilson's pro career that he was active but did not play. Earlier in that week, when he was held out of two practices, Wilson said he had a stiff back. But he was not inactive for the game, the usual recourse when a player is unavailable due to a short-term injury. He was simply benched. In a game that would determine whether the Broncos went to the playoffs, Nate Webster played middle linebacker.

Now the Broncos are shopping Wilson with the assistance of his new agent, Peter Schaffer, who seems to be developing a side specialty of getting guys out of Denver, having recently made the necessary arrangements for Trevor Pryce and Ashley Lelie.

From the team's perspective, part of the motivation might be to avoid a confrontation over reduced playing time next year. Broncos brass has been talking for some time about adding D.J. Williams to the nickel package to increase his impact.

That would require subtracting someone - namely, Wilson or Ian Gold. Gold is the team's best cover linebacker, which means the odd man out would likely be Wilson.

There is no reason to think he would be happy about that.

Wilson has never been the most fundamentally sound tackler in the game, but his speed and athleticism often allowed him to recover from mistakes. In the year he turns 30, the club may feel that's no longer a winning formula.

On the other hand, Wilson's leadership and heart haven't gone anywhere. These things matter, too. Neither Gold nor Williams has exhibited the personality to replace them. Champ Bailey and John Lynch are fine leaders, but the secondary is a different deal. The front seven needs its own tough-guy leadership.

So you can't evaluate the apparent decision to unload Wilson without answering this question: Who takes his place?

You don't jettison a five-time Pro Bowl middle linebacker without having a line of succession in mind. Maybe the Broncos do, but it's not readily apparent.

If they want to convert Williams into a middle linebacker, they've kept quiet about it. What you do hear is that Williams would be more effective on the weak side, in Gold's spot, where he wouldn't have to bounce off tight ends all the time. If they're trying to free him of blockers, the middle is not the place to put him.

Webster looks like a short-term solution at best. About to turn 30 himself, with a history of knee trouble, Webster has never cracked triple digits in total tackles, something Wilson has done six times in eight NFL seasons, including the last one, when he led the team with 113, despite sitting out the finale.

My understanding is that trading Wilson would save the Broncos only about $2 million of salary-cap space. Every little bit helps - it looks like they had to cut Courtney Brown to sign quarterback Patrick Ramsey and wide receiver Brandon Stokley - but that savings is not enough to justify the deal by itself. The Broncos appear to have decided for football reasons that it is time for Wilson to go.

Why he failed his Giants physical is anybody's guess. Could have been the neck, the back, the oft-repaired thumb. Could have been too much cumulative risk for a guy with four years and more than $20 million left on his contract. Still, another team might reach a different conclusion. If all the Broncos want is a middle-round draft pick - they don't have a fourth or a fifth in the April draft - some team seems likely to take a chance.

Which brings us back to the main questions: If the Broncos trade Wilson, who plays middle linebacker? Who assumes his role in the locker room?

Whether shopping him is a good move depends entirely on what comes next. Presumably, Shanahan has a plan. In view of what he's prepared to give up, it had better be a good one.


kriegerd@RockyMountainNews.com

[SoCalBronco]

Wtf

[-Slap-]

I'm not accepting this as gospel truth, but if we benched Wilson for Webster, I think we were trying to lose the Frisco game on purpose.

[RhymesayersDU]

"This neighborhood is turning into Melrose Place."

-Dale Gribble

[Kaylore]

Kind of highlights those comments we heard from Shanahan about everyone's job being on the line at the end of the year, and whatnot.

[shakenbake]

As I said in another post: If Al is considered the "heart and soul" of our defense and our defense has not played up to par the last few seasons, then there is a reason to get rid of him. He simply is a steady, solid linebacker, not a playmaker and not worth 20 million over the next 4 years.

[Play2win]

I thought this was especially interesting...

Webster looks like a short-term solution at best. About to turn 30 himself, with a history of knee trouble, Webster has never cracked triple digits in total tackles, something Wilson has done six times in eight NFL seasons, including the last one, when he led the team with 113, despite sitting out the finale.

[Rascal]

Wow.

So even the Broncos brass recognizes that DJ is better suited at WLB. And that going to MLB won't alleviate his problems either. Are they thinking about getting rid of Gold as well next year?

We have so many holes on that defense it's impossible to fill them all this year. Not to mention Lynch being old and Ekuban being a FA next year.

[-Slap-]

I can't remember a worse effort by a Bronco MLB than Webster turned in against San Francisco. Al Wilson never had a game that bad. I honestly don't believe Allen Aldridge or Glenn Cadrez ever played that poorly, either. You would probably have to go back to one of Elijah Alexander's rodeo efforts at ILB.

I can live without Al Wilson, but replacing him in the starting lineup with Nate Webster is nothing short of suicide. If that's truly the plan, LJ and LT might trade the single game rushing record back and forth a couple times next year.

[wabbit]

Not so sure about the benching, but I agree with the substance.

Shanahan just couldn't believe his defense...the same one flirting with defensive statistical history the first five weeks of the season...was easily surrending substantial leads the second half of the season.

Also, I would wager that Bates has added valuable, painfully frank objective input as well.

[Play2win]

I guess in this age of the salary cap, a team needs to pick and choose where they put their top-notch, high dollar tallent. The D-Line would seem to be the most wise, and from then on, it is just a question of correctly managing your assets

[eddie mac]

Krieger knows f@ck all about f@ck all. Even Williamson knows more than that tube. As for his statement about the Broncos having to cut Brown to sign Ramsey and Stokley, quit talking out yer ass. Smith saved $5.5m in room just prior to that and the last I heard NFL franchises cant go over the cap at present.

[Rascal]

I can't remember a worse effort by a Bronco MLB than Webster turned in against San Francisco. Al Wilson never had a game that bad. I honestly don't believe Allen Aldridge or Glenn Cadrez ever played that poorly, either. You would probably have to go back to one of Elijah Alexander's rodeo efforts at ILB.

I can live without Al Wilson, but replacing him in the starting lineup with Nate Webster is nothing short of suicide. If that's truly the plan, LJ and LT might trade the single game rushing record back and forth a couple times next year.

No kidding. I'll have to bump them up on my fantasy rankings.

HA!

[Rock Chalk]

I'm not accepting this as gospel truth, but if we benched Wilson for Webster, I think we were trying to lose the Frisco game on purpose.

Wow, thats exactly what I first thought.

But why? I dont understand why we would tank a game.

[Requiem]

I can't remember a worse effort by a Bronco MLB than Webster turned in against San Francisco. Al Wilson never had a game that bad. I honestly don't believe Allen Aldridge or Glenn Cadrez ever played that poorly, either. You would probably have to go back to one of Elijah Alexander's rodeo efforts at ILB.

I can live without Al Wilson, but replacing him in the starting lineup with Nate Webster is nothing short of suicide. If that's truly the plan, LJ and LT might trade the single game rushing record back and forth a couple times next year.

Slap, that's why we draft Patrick Willis and are set for 10 more years at MLB before we do this to him. ;)

[Rock Chalk]

Slap, that's why we draft Patrick Willis and are set for 10 more years at MLB before we do this to him. ;)

Or Willis turns out to be Terry Pierce The Second.

Draft picks are gambles, all of them.

[Play2win]

SAM- ???
MIKE- Patrick Willis
WILL- DJ

[SoCalBronco]

Wow.

So even the Broncos brass recognizes that DJ is better suited at WLB. And that going to MLB won't alleviate his problems either.

I don't know about that, I think that part was Krieger speculating. Remember, in that article earlier about the linebackers in Bates scheme, it was noted that the MLB position is expected to be the most productive.

I am glad though, to see the staff is finally figuring that they made a colossal ****up when they displaced DJ.

[Rock Chalk]

Fat chance DS49. Gold isnt going anywhere unfortunately.

[azbroncfan]

And this is just coming out now? I highly doubt the truth to this story as someone or one of the players would of brought it up by now.

[TheDave]

Wow, thats exactly what I first thought.

But why? I dont understand why we would tank a game.

Just a guess... So that we didn't get embarrassed again against Indy

[NFLBRONCO]

Not so sure about the benching, but I agree with the substance.

Shanahan just couldn't believe his defense...the same one flirting with defensive statistical history the first five weeks of the season...was easily surrending substantial leads the second half of the season.

Also, I would wager that Bates has added valuable, painfully frank objective input as well.

First 5 weeks reality was sucky offenses not awesome D. Better offenses exposed our weak D.

[Requiem]

Or Willis turns out to be Terry Pierce The Second.

Draft picks are gambles, all of them.

Terry Pierce pretty much became a non-factor after we re-signed Al. If I recall correctly, he was drafted because we didn't know that he'd be coming back?

[Willynowei]

Wow, thats exactly what I first thought.

But why? I dont understand why we would tank a game.

I don't think we were trying to tank the game by taking Wilson out. I think Shanny figured we would win without him, but wanted to lay down the law in Bronco land.

[eddie mac]

Fat chance DS49. Gold isnt going anywhere unfortunately.

More to do with Shanahan's ego as well. If they're prepared to dump Al just to save a few million in cap space they could do a similar thing with Gold but Mike will never lose face by doing that.

[Rascal]

Why would Shanny lose face by cutting Gold? I think that's a load of crap.

[SportinOne]

what is going on... i don't like what is happening around here anymore.

yeah, we traded for Bly, but he doesn't want to play here, apparently.

we are bringing in high priced guys and now we are trading Al? We aren't the Redskins, we shouldn't be making so many moves in one offseason.

[SoCalBronco]

Why would Shanny lose face by cutting Gold? I think that's a load of crap.

Perhaps the reason Javon is restructuring and we are trying to create even more room the last week or so is so that we can eat Ian's cap hit. I dont think there is a hit with Al, I think there is a small savings there, but with Ian there would be a bit of a hit.

[Play2win]

Anyway Shanny already set that precedent by cutting Griese.

[NFLBRONCO]

I'm not expecting Bly to play here

Does everyone think we are going to let loose 2 starting LB's this offseason?

[Rascal]

Perhaps the reason Javon is restructuring and we are trying to create even more room the last week or so is so that we can eat Ian's cap hit. I dont think there is a hit with Al, I think there is a small savings there, but with Ian there would be a bit of a hit.

I hope you are right. But can we honestly replace 2 starting LB's while fixing the d-line in one offseason?

This sure is looking like a rebuilding year on the defensive side of the ball.

Maybe they are targeting Briggs or Vilma?

I think we save 2-3 mil by cutting Wilson, but we probably lose that much by cutting Gold.

Eddie mac...clarification please.

[Requiem]

Omg what the Hell so we're talking Dump Gold too lols

[footstepsfrom#27]

I guess I missed the source for this enlightenment. It smells like Krieger is trying to nab some attention with a hot sports opinion he knows will provoke controversy. Unless Wilson, Shanahan or another coach in the organization told him that Al was benched, I consider it a load of crap. Also...if Shanny's looking for scape goats there are plenty of others more highly qualified. Let's start with the entire D-line.

I miss the old days when sports writers just reported news and offered opinion without trying to become the news themselves.

[Willynowei]

Oh C'mon guys, lets just face reality.

The year we drafted Foster, we picked up Terry Pierce in the 2nd round... WHY? For sh*ts and giggles? Shanny was planning to drop Wilson the year that he and Gold were both due a new contract. Broncos wanted to take GOLD OVER WILSON.

I forget exactly what happened that year, i think Gold got hurt, but Denver got him signed for less and had the cap room to strike the huge deal with Al Wilson. Al was never as indispensable as some on this board thinks he is.

He's no different than Mobely, Gold, Roid head and now DJ. He's a damn good linebacker on a football team that for many years schemed to the advantage of linebackers. I know there are a lot of REAL bronco fans on this board who have been quiet about the trade, but are real excited that the team is moving in exactly the right direction.

But this has all become a mess with Al failing the physical and now a stupid article like this ruins his value even more. Certainly very little good news has been comming out in the last 24.

[Rascal]

Oh C'mon guys, lets just face reality.

The year we drafted Foster, we picked up Terry Pierce in the 2nd round... WHY? For sh*ts and giggles? Shanny was planning to drop Wilson the year that he and Gold were both due a new contract. Broncos wanted to take GOLD OVER WILSON.

I forget exactly what happened that year, i think Gold got hurt, but Denver got him signed for less and had the cap room to strike the huge deal with Al Wilson. Al was never as indispensable as some on this board thinks he is.

He's no different than Mobely, Gold, Roid head and now DJ. He's a damn good linebacker on a football team that for many years schemed to the advantage of linebackers. I know there are a lot of REAL bronco fans on this board who have been quiet about the trade, but are real excited that the team is moving in exactly the right direction.
But this has all become a mess with Al failing the physical and now a stupid article like this ruins his value even more. Certainly very little good news has been comming out in the last 24.


So people who aren't excited about the trade aren't real fans?

**** you ass hole.

[elsid13]

I not buying this. If that was the case, Wilson would have been shopped at the beginning of FA period...

[eddie mac]

Why would Shanny lose face by cutting Gold? I think that's a load of crap.

Because he wasted what little money we had that offseason by bringing him back when the money could've used on a decent Defensive Lineman like we were all crying out for. You're long enough in the tooth to realise now that in Mike Shanahan's eyes, Mike Shanahan is never wrong and it's always someone else's fault. Hint, hint Coyer and Patterson.

[eddie mac]

I not buying this. If that was the case, Wilson would have been shopped at the beginning of FA period...

He was. Just the media didn't get hold of it until recently.

[Rascal]

Because he wasted what little money we had that offseason by bringing him back when the money could've used on a decent Defensive Lineman like we were all crying out for. You're long enough in the tooth to realise now that in Mike Shanahan's eyes, Mike Shanahan is never wrong and it's always someone else's fault. Hint, hint Coyer and Patterson.

He is never wrong?

I think he pretty much admitted to being wrong with both Griese and Plummer.

[watermock]

Slappy and SoCal have convinced the board that Gold is a total POS. SoCal because of his man crush on the U's DJ, and Slappy for his love of pigs at LB.

That said, I didn't like the move either, but just cutting Gold to appease DJ and two posters isn't the answer either, especially if Wilson is on his way out.

I would of liked to of seen Gold sent from the edge more...zero sacks is rediculous from the will, I agree.

[Willynowei]

So people who aren't excited about the trade aren't real fans?

**** you a-hole.

Calm down and think.

This is in response to the people who are clamoring that any loyal fan would be outraged with Wilson being traded. And it creates the idea that some how all real denver fans are upset about the trade. Well I'm pointing out there are a lot of fans who are also REAL who are in favor of the trade, but they all keep quiet. Why? Because Al was a great denver player and you don't want to see him go, but you know for a fact that this is the right direction.

[elsid13]

Oh C'mon guys, lets just face reality.

The year we drafted Foster, we picked up Terry Pierce in the 2nd round... WHY? For sh*ts and giggles? Shanny was planning to drop Wilson the year that he and Gold were both due a new contract. Broncos wanted to take GOLD OVER WILSON.

.

They drafted Pierce because Wilson was unrestricted FA, and they wanted to have a back-up plan in place if Wilson didn't resign.

[Requiem]

Bringing back Ian Gold was probably the worst move the team made in the past five years. He sucks balls. He flipped off Eddie though, but he smells like ass.

[Rascal]

I'm going to laugh if we get Donnie Spragan back. Wasn't it bates who brought him in to Miami in the first place?

[eddie mac]

Oh C'mon guys, lets just face reality.

The year we drafted Foster, we picked up Terry Pierce in the 2nd round... WHY? For sh*ts and giggles? Shanny was planning to drop Wilson the year that he and Gold were both due a new contract. Broncos wanted to take GOLD OVER WILSON.

I forget exactly what happened that year, i think Gold got hurt, but Denver got him signed for less and had the cap room to strike the huge deal with Al Wilson. Al was never as indispensable as some on this board thinks he is.

He's no different than Mobely, Gold, Roid head and now DJ. He's a damn good linebacker on a football team that for many years schemed to the advantage of linebackers. I know there are a lot of REAL bronco fans on this board who have been quiet about the trade, but are real excited that the team is moving in exactly the right direction.

But this has all become a mess with Al failing the physical and now a stupid article like this ruins his value even more. Certainly very little good news has been comming out in the last 24.

Total bull. No-one gives a player $11.5m in guarantees if they dont want to keep them given the fact at that time Al was one of the highest paid backers in the league.

[Rascal]

Calm down and think.

This is in response to the people who are clamoring that any loyal fan would be outraged with Wilson being traded. And it creates the idea that some how all real denver fans are upset about the trade. Well I'm pointing out there are a lot of fans who are also REAL who are in favor of the trade, but they all keep quiet. Why? Because Al was a great denver player and you don't want to see him go, but you know for a fact that this is the right direction.

I'm very calm, I just find it ludicrous that people on a message board dictate who the real fans are who are not.

Your comment didn't come off the way you intended it. Try wording things better in the future.

[Willynowei]

They drafted Pierce because Wilson was unrestricted FA, and they wanted to have a back-up plan in place if Wilson didn't resign.

I'll try to find the quote where Shanahan said they only had enough money for either Wilson or Gold and were planning to keep Gold.

[azbroncfan]

Slappy and SoCal have convinced the board that Gold is a total POS. SoCal because of his man crush on the U's DJ, and Slappy for his love of pigs at LB.

That said, I didn't like the move either, but just cutting Gold to appease DJ and two posters isn't the answer either, especially if Wilson is on his way out.

I would of liked to of seen Gold sent from the edge more...zero sacks is rediculous from the will, I agree.

Mock this might be your most accurate post ever.

[eddie mac]

Bringing back Ian Gold was probably the worst move the team made in the past five years. He sucks balls. He flipped off Eddie though, but he smells like ass.

Req you've lost me. It's not a personal vendetta against these players. I call it how I see it and Al Wilson is twice the player Ian Gold is. Shame our organisation dont see that.

[Willynowei]

I'm very calm, I just find it ludicrous that people on a message board dictate who the real fans are who are not.

Your comment didn't come off the way you intended it. Try wording things better in the future.

Well that wasn't the case here... move along.:thumbsup:

[azbroncfan]

Total bull. No-one gives a player $11.5m in guarantees if they dont want to keep them given the fact at that time Al was one of the highest paid backers in the league.

and doesn't make as many plays as he should for his price.

[Rascal]

Well that wasn't the case here... move along.:thumbsup:

move along yourself.

[Requiem]

Req you've lost me. It's not a personal vendetta against these players. I call it how I see it and Al Wilson is twice the player Ian Gold is. Shame our organisation dont see that.

I agree with you man, I'd rather have Al than Ian. I really think Ian is not good. I hear you.

[eddie mac]

I'm going to laugh if we get Donnie Spragan back. Wasn't it bates who brought him in to Miami in the first place?

Him and Arrington are the only 2 OLB's left in the FA pool.:giggle:

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Bench Krieger !!!

[Rascal]

Him and Arrington are the only 2 OLB's left in the FA pool.:giggle:

There are more then that, but they are the only ones with any starting experience I believe.

[eddie mac]

and doesn't make as many plays as he should for his price.

Maybe he would if he didn't have a pile of dog**** in front of him that couldn't stop a mouse in the 2nd half of the season. Seems to me that Shanahan will blame everybody for the defense's 2nd half demise but his front 4 and himself. How many have already felt the sword???

Just take a few seconds to look at the front 4's Urlacher, Thomas and Lewis play behind then tell me Al's not a great player. He's been voted to 5 Pro-Bowls for a reason.

[eddie mac]

There are more then that, but they are the only ones with any starting experience I believe.

Sirmon, Emmons, Polley, Huff, Darling. Some of those may have signed elsewhere cos the list is from 10 March.

[Willynowei]

Maybe he would if he didn't have a pile of dog**** in front of him that couldn't stop a mouse in the 2nd half of the season. Seems to me that Shanahan will blame everybody for the defense's 2nd half demise but his front 4 and himself. How many have already felt the sword???

Well he cut Brown and forced Warren into a huge pay cut. I wouldn't say that he hasn't put any blame on that unit. He's also openly criticized that front four.

But I agree that there's no enough blame on the front four. I don't think you could ever put enough blame on Denver's front four. They will forever be my scapegoat :)

[2KBack]

I'll try to find the quote where Shanahan said they only had enough money for either Wilson or Gold and were planning to keep Gold.

I'm pretty sure it was a bit different to how you are recalling it. Al was a FA the season before Gold was. Al signed, then Gold tore his ACL at the beginning of his contract year. He balked at Denver's offer, because Denver lowballed him due to him coming off of injury, hence the stint in Tampa. If there was any quote about signing the 2, it was probably something along the lines of Shannahan being concerned about the size of the contract they were giving Al becasue Gold was a FA the following year.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

The Broncos didn't try to "tank the game." I seriously doubt Wilson was benched either...this is just talk to sell newspapers.

[rovolution]

I'm going to laugh if we get Donnie Spragan back. Wasn't it bates who brought him in to Miami in the first place?

Nope. i believe it was Saban (donnies first year in MIA was 2005, and that was Sabans first year, and Bates was not on Saban's staff).

[footstepsfrom#27]

Oh C'mon guys, lets just face reality.

The year we drafted Foster, we picked up Terry Pierce in the 2nd round... WHY? For sh*ts and giggles? Shanny was planning to drop Wilson the year that he and Gold were both due a new contract. Broncos wanted to take GOLD OVER WILSON.

I forget exactly what happened that year, i think Gold got hurt, but Denver got him signed for less and had the cap room to strike the huge deal with Al Wilson. Al was never as indispensable as some on this board thinks he is.
So Shanny wantd Wilson out, which is why he then gave him a fat new contract right? That makes sense...Uhh
He's no different than Mobely, Gold, Roid head and now DJ. He's a damn good linebacker on a football team that for many years schemed to the advantage of linebackers.
And in what way has that changed? Last time I looked Bates made pretty good use of a guy named Zach Thomas in Miami, so I guess having a good MLB might be important to him.

[Play2win]

So people who aren't excited about the trade aren't real fans?

**** you a-hole.

He is a Complete Ass-Hole...

[BroncoInferno]

Slappy and SoCal have convinced the board that Gold is a total POS. SoCal because of his man crush on the U's DJ, and Slappy for his love of pigs at LB.

That said, I didn't like the move either, but just cutting Gold to appease DJ and two posters isn't the answer either, especially if Wilson is on his way out.

I would of liked to of seen Gold sent from the edge more...zero sacks is rediculous from the will, I agree.

Dead on with this post, mock. The idiotic Gold bashing isn't based on anything objective. Most of the dumbasses bashing him don't even pay enough attention to Gold during the game to know how he performs overall. I don't think SoCal ever said Gold sucks, either, he just doesn't like him because he thinks he is keeping DJ out of his proper spot. Slappy even begrudgingly admitted that Gold surprised him in '05 (none of the 3 were particular impressive in the second half of '06, granted). Comments like "Gold was the worse move in 5 years" is nothing short of laughably ignorance. I can't wait to see the response when Gold is racking up big numbers in Bates' scheme. Some will still say he sucks like they did in back in '05 when he played extremely well.

[Play2win]

Maybe he would if he didn't have a pile of dog**** in front of him that couldn't stop a mouse in the 2nd half of the season. Seems to me that Shanahan will blame everybody for the defense's 2nd half demise but his front 4 and himself. How many have already felt the sword???

Just take a few seconds to look at the front 4's Urlacher, Thomas and Lewis play behind then tell me Al's not a great player. He's been voted to 5 Pro-Bowls for a reason.

QFT

[Willynowei]

So Shanny wantd Wilson out, which is why he then gave him a fat new contract right? That makes sense...Uhh

And in what way has that changed? Last time I looked Bates made pretty good use of a guy named Zach Thomas in Miami, so I guess having a good MLB might be important to him.

I was making the point that Al was replaceable not that Bates would rather not have him. I'm just working off what I remember, but the point was Denver ended up with more cap space than it had anticipated. Had there been too little to fit both Gold and Wilson under the cap, Wilson would've been the one to leave, and Pierce would've taken his place. I definitely did not say that Shanny wanted wilson out, where did you get that?

[Willynowei]

He is a Complete Ass-Hole...

I don't know who you are.

But **** YOU too.

[Play2win]

Dead on with this post, mock. The idiotic Gold bashing isn't based on anything objective. Most of the dumbasses bashing him don't even pay enough attention to Gold during the game to know how he performs overall. I don't think SoCal ever said Gold sucks, either, he just doesn't like him because he thinks he is keeping DJ out of his proper spot. Slappy even begrudgingly admitted that Gold surprised him in '05 (none of the 3 were particular impressive in the second half of '06, granted). Comments like "Gold was the worse move in 5 years" is nothing short of laughably ignorance. I can't wait to see the response when Gold is racking up big numbers in Bates' scheme. Some will still say he sucks like they did in back in '05 when he played extremely well.

High School mentality, I think a few here are late for the Prom...

[SoCalBronco]

Dead on with this post, mock. The idiotic Gold bashing isn't based on anything objective. Most of the dumbasses bashing him don't even pay enough attention to Gold during the game to know how he performs overall. I don't think SoCal ever said Gold sucks, either, he just doesn't like him because he thinks he is keeping DJ out of his proper spot. Slappy even begrudgingly admitted that Gold surprised him in '05 (none of the 3 were particular impressive in the second half of '06, granted). Comments like "Gold was the worse move in 5 years" is nothing short of laughably ignorance. I can't wait to see the response when Gold is racking up big numbers in Bates' scheme. Some will still say he sucks like they did in back in '05 when he played extremely well.

Wait a minute, this thread isnt about the organization doing anything to please someone, thats absurd. This is about yet another writer (as you recall, PFW, a highly reputable organization in itself, earlier made this assertion according to its sources in the organization) who seems to be saying that the team isnt happy with 2/3 of its LBs. This has nothing to do with Slap and myself. This is the TEAM (apparently) unhappy based on its review (and Bates's independent review) of various folks.

It's not my fault that it took the team 2 years to see that they made a mistake that appeared to be quite obvious to many of us at the time.

[Willynowei]

I'm pretty sure it was a bit different to how you are recalling it. Al was a FA the season before Gold was. Al signed, then Gold tore his ACL at the beginning of his contract year. He balked at Denver's offer, because Denver lowballed him due to him coming off of injury, hence the stint in Tampa. If there was any quote about signing the 2, it was probably something along the lines of Shannahan being concerned about the size of the contract they were giving Al becasue Gold was a FA the following year.

Yeah you're probably right, your version sounds better.

[TheDave]

Dead on with this post, mock. The idiotic Gold bashing isn't based on anything objective. Most of the dumbasses bashing him don't even pay enough attention to Gold during the game to know how he performs overall. I don't think SoCal ever said Gold sucks, either, he just doesn't like him because he thinks he is keeping DJ out of his proper spot. Slappy even begrudgingly admitted that Gold surprised him in '05 (none of the 3 were particular impressive in the second half of '06, granted). Comments like "Gold was the worse move in 5 years" is nothing short of laughably ignorance. I can't wait to see the response when Gold is racking up big numbers in Bates' scheme. Some will still say he sucks like they did in back in '05 when he played extremely well.


For all the crap Gold is given around here alot of awefully well respected coaches seem to disagree with us...

Shanahan
Gruden
Kifin
Coyer
Bates

[TheDave]

Wait a minute, this thread isnt about the organization doing anything to please someone, thats absurd. This is about yet another writer (as you recall, PFW, a highly reputable organization in itself, earlier made this assertion according to its sources in the organization) who seems to be saying that the team isnt happy with 2/3 of its LBs. This has nothing to do with Slap and myself. This is the TEAM (apparently) unhappy based on its review (and Bates's independent review) of various folks.

It's not my fault that it took the team 2 years to see that they made a mistake that appeared to be quite obvious to many of us at the time.

Well we know one of them is Al... problem is everyone is just assuming the other one is Gold.

[SoCalBronco]

Well we know one of them is Al... problem is everyone is just assuming the other one is Gold.

Well...PFW says he is the other one and according to Requiem, John Clayton concurred in one of his reports as well.

[eddie mac]

For all the crap Gold is given around here alot of awefully well respected coaches seem to disagree with us...

Shanahan
Gruden
Kifin
Coyer
Bates

Yip, he was that good in Tampa Dave that Gruden cut him. It wouldn't have been too hard to re-sign him either considering he respresented himself in contractual discussions.

[CBF1]

For all the crap Gold is given around here alot of awefully well respected coaches seem to disagree with us...

Shanahan
Gruden
Kifin
Coyer
Bates

Your list of coaches suck horse */.& ...well you know what :)

[BroncoBuff]

Wow, thats exactly what I first thought.
But why? I dont understand why we would tank a game.
C'mon guys ... NO WAY that happened. It came down to a last second field goal, remember? C'mon .... losing on purpose?

It's MUCH more likely that Al had done something wrong or played in a manner that ticked off Shanny. Not Coyer, Shanny. Maybe he pulled a David Gibbs and called a different defense than was sent in .... or maybe his neck thing made him 'punchy.' I'll never forget him pointing out that mistake in the Indy Dome while Marin Harrison got up and scored .... we don't know him, he might be a pr**k.

And remember - it went by somehat unnoticed, but Al and Champ were benched for a pre-season game for conduct - being late or something. That couldda been the canary in this coalmine.

[TheDave]

Well...PFW says he is the other one and according to Requiem, John Clayton concurred in one of his reports as well.

I'll take everyones word for it, but i'm still having flahbacks of Dj getting Stiff armed by Steven jackson... over and over again. My point is not one person here has ever had any criticism of Al's play. For all the "insiders" and "arm chair TIVO scouts" that line these halls everyone missed the fact that the Golden Boy wilson seemingly played himself right out of the staring line up while we were busy picking on Ian Gold and the front 4. Just my opinion, but maybe we are missing on this one also. I just have trouble believing that our coaching staff is so unbelievable stupid that they are trading away "The heart and soul of our team" while the real problem lies elsewhere.

[TheDave]

Yip, he was that good in Tampa Dave that Gruden cut him. It wouldn't have been too hard to re-sign him either considering he respresented himself in contractual discussions.

As i remeber it they released him with the hope of resigning him to a longer term deal...

Wasn't he signed on a 2 year deal with a larger roster bonus due at the start of the 2nd year?

[bpc]

Denver played like a demoralized team that day against SF. Worst defensive performance I saw last season easily. Worse than Pitt, worse than SD twice.

All of this news coming out is domoralizing. I have no doubt that if Denver wants to move Al, they will find a buyer. But all of this information is hurting his value big time.

I thought we had the perfect set of LB's to play Bates style of defense. I couldn't have been more wrong. We are tearing this defense out by the roots.

[Play2win]

Its probably just that— Al Wilson being a tough Man- was playing through pain/injuries, but that it had gotten so bad that his play was suffering. Suffering so much so, that Webster got the nod in front of AL, even though he isn't even half the player Wilson is...

[SoCalBronco]

I'll take everyones word for it, but i'm still having flahbacks of Dj getting Stiff armed by Steven jackson... over and over again. My point is not one person here has ever had any criticism of Al's play. For all the "insiders" and "arm chair TIVO scouts" that line these halls everyone missed the fact that the Golden Boy wilson seemingly played himself right out of the staring line up while we were busy picking on Ian Gold and the front 4. Just my opinion, but maybe we are missing on this one also. I just have trouble believing that our coaching staff is so unbelievable stupid that they are trading away "The heart and soul of our team" while the real problem lies elsewhere.

I dont think they are mutually exclusive. Its not we either do X or we do Y. No one is saying there aren't benefits that Ian provides. As the Krieger piece notes, he is our best cover LB. It's just that it seems to me that the team is realizing now its mistake in the value vs. alternative value analysis that it performed 2 years ago.

[eddie mac]

As i remeber it they released him with the hope of resigning him to a longer term deal...

They already had him on a long-term deal but the large option/roster bonus meant it could've been just a 1 year contract if they'd released him. They could've renegotiated the bonus but they knew once he hit the market again he was going back to Denver. Didn't seem to me that they wanted him back that badly. Gold does not fit a lot of defenses in this league and if Denver wants to get bigger all over the field it wont be long before he doesn't fit here either.

[shakenbake]

I'll take everyones word for it, but i'm still having flahbacks of Dj getting Stiff armed by Steven jackson... over and over again. My point is not one person here has ever had any criticism of Al's play. For all the "insiders" and "arm chair TIVO scouts" that line these halls everyone missed the fact that the Golden Boy wilson seemingly played himself right out of the staring line up while we were busy picking on Ian Gold and the front 4. Just my opinion, but maybe we are missing on this one also. I just have trouble believing that our coaching staff is so unbelievable stupid that they are trading away "The heart and soul of our team" while the real problem lies elsewhere.

I may have not started a thread about it but I have been pretty consitent in my belief that Al Wilson is not a playmaker.

[Rock Chalk]

Just a guess... So that we didn't get embarrassed again against Indy

You mean, get embarrassed even more than we were already getting embarrassed? That what you mean? Because it was more than just Al that ****ed up in those games.

[Barry Ramey]

Let's see, it's claimed the Broncos aren't happy with Wilson and Gold, yet so many fans want them to take a safety with the top pick? Seems to me they better be looking at LB in this draft and not just one if all of this is true.

[SouthStndJunkie]

Sometimes Shanahan handles things poorly.

I think this is an example of that. Benching him was a mistake. They looked like utter **** against SF. Wilson is the heart of the defense, even if his play is declining.

The other players take notice of how Shanny is handling and treating Wilson and I am sure they think it is a crock of ****.

[telluride]

Despite all this wild speculation -- including by Kreiger -- it seems far more likely that Wilson's neck injury was substantial, and lasting. Shanny knows that -- and knew it at the time of the SF game. He's trying to get value for Al if at all possible. But it may not be possible any longer. Be happy if we get a second day pick for him -- or manage to package him with some other items to move up on day one.

[TheDave]

So in conclusion we need 1 DT, 1 DE, 1 MLB, 1 WLB, and 1 FS... Now i just need to figure out why Coyer was fired...

[BroncoInferno]

Despite all this wild speculation -- including by Kreiger -- it seems far more likely that Wilson's neck injury was substantial, and lasting. Shanny knows that -- and knew it at the time of the SF game. He's trying to get value for Al if at all possible. But it may not be possible any longer. Be happy if we get a second day pick for him -- or manage to package him with some other items to move up on day one.

This is my view as well. The neck coupled with his bum shoulders probably means his decline will steadily continue.

[eddie mac]

Despite all this wild speculation -- including by Kreiger -- it seems far more likely that Wilson's neck injury was substantial, and lasting. Shanny knows that -- and knew it at the time of the SF game. He's trying to get value for Al if at all possible. But it may not be possible any longer. Be happy if we get a second day pick for him -- or manage to package him with some other items to move up on day one.

They can stick the 2nd day pick. If he's not fit to play for us then he can retire in a Denver uniform.

[BroncoInferno]

They can stick the 2nd day pick. If he's not fit to play for us then he can retire in a Denver uniform.

He should retire even if he wants to play on? I see. You people aren't thinking with your heads.

[-Slap-]

We aren't the Redskins, we shouldn't be making so many moves in one offseason.

There is some validity to this. Massive overhauls never seem to work.

[shakenbake]

I'll take everyones word for it, but i'm still having flahbacks of Dj getting Stiff armed by Steven jackson... over and over again. My point is not one person here has ever had any criticism of Al's play. For all the "insiders" and "arm chair TIVO scouts" that line these halls everyone missed the fact that the Golden Boy wilson seemingly played himself right out of the staring line up while we were busy picking on Ian Gold and the front 4. Just my opinion, but maybe we are missing on this one also. I just have trouble believing that our coaching staff is so unbelievable stupid that they are trading away "The heart and soul of our team" while the real problem lies elsewhere.

I also wanted to add in that in general I agree with your post. Anyone who says they can break down the LB play based on what they see on TV is full of crap.

[-Slap-]

Slappy and SoCal have convinced the board that Gold is a total POS. SoCal because of his man crush on the U's DJ, and Slappy for his love of pigs at LB.

That said, I didn't like the move either, but just cutting Gold to appease DJ and two posters isn't the answer either, especially if Wilson is on his way out.

I would of liked to of seen Gold sent from the edge more...zero sacks is rediculous from the will, I agree.

Tell us how Gradishar made most of his tackles way downfield again, bandwagon.

[WoodMan]

Wow, thats exactly what I first thought.

But why? I dont understand why we would tank a game.

Thats because they didn't, Krieger is full of sh!t.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Perhaps the reason Javon is restructuring and we are trying to create even more room the last week or so is so that we can eat Ian's cap hit. I dont think there is a hit with Al, I think there is a small savings there, but with Ian there would be a bit of a hit.

Javon didn't do anything, Denver simply guaranteed an unguaranteed bonus so they could prorate it for cap purposes. You're reading too much into a move that was pretty much a foregone conclusion the day Walker signed the extension.

[Willynowei]

He should retire even if he wants to play on? I see. You people aren't thinking with your heads.

I think thats the mentality a lot of loyal fans are taking. Wilson's really never done anything wrong, but if his play is declining what can Denver do? I think this is much like the Trevor Pryce situation, Pryce didn't want to take a pay cut either. Albeit, a lot of maners flat out hated pryce.

[-Slap-]

Sirmon, Emmons, Polley, Huff, Darling. Some of those may have signed elsewhere cos the list is from 10 March.

We should have signed Carlos Emmons seven years ago when we had the chance. Now he's pretty much through.

[BroncoBuff]

You mean, get embarrassed even more than we were already getting embarrassed? That what you mean? Because it was more than just Al that ****ed up in those games.

Yes, but the others managed to hang on to some dignity - they didn't choose to visibly show up a teammate while permitting a touchdown to be scored. That has troubled me since I watched it live, and then again and again, mouth agape.

You bandwagons can praise Al as a big "character guy" ... but count me out. My eyes are wide open.

Good riddance.

[eddie mac]

He should retire even if he wants to play on? I see. You people aren't thinking with your heads.

FIT as in healthy enough.

[eddie mac]

Javon didn't do anything, Denver simply guaranteed an unguaranteed bonus so they could prorate it for cap purposes. You're reading too much into a move that was pretty much a foregone conclusion the day Walker signed the extension.

Dont think he is Herc. At present we dont need that additional $3.2m unless Shanahan wants to bring more players in. We're about $7m under now with a draft class of $3-$4m to come. Unless he wants to keep the money to extend Foxworth and Paymah this year.

[-Slap-]

Dead on with this post, mock. The idiotic Gold bashing isn't based on anything objective. Most of the dumbasses bashing him don't even pay enough attention to Gold during the game to know how he performs overall. I don't think SoCal ever said Gold sucks, either, he just doesn't like him because he thinks he is keeping DJ out of his proper spot. Slappy even begrudgingly admitted that Gold surprised him in '05 (none of the 3 were particular impressive in the second half of '06, granted). Comments like "Gold was the worse move in 5 years" is nothing short of laughably ignorance. I can't wait to see the response when Gold is racking up big numbers in Bates' scheme. Some will still say he sucks like they did in back in '05 when he played extremely well.

Zero sacks. Zero interceptions. Zero fumble recoveries. Numerous missed tackles.

Ian was a virtual juggernaut last year, alright.

[watermock]

Yip, he was that good in Tampa Dave that Gruden cut him. It wouldn't have been too hard to re-sign him either considering he respresented himself in contractual discussions.

Actually everyone knew he would be a free agent because he had a big roster bonus. It was simply an option they decided not to exersise. Gold isn't a Sam anyway, but played resonably well despite the detractors. The point is that everyone knew that it was a one year deal, except you.

I never said he was well suited for Sam, or that I agreed with signing him and moving DJ. That's unimportant at this point. If you want to look in the rear view mirror thats your albatros.

[BroncoBuff]

Yes, but the others managed to hang on to some dignity - they didn't choose to visibly show up a teammate while permitting a touchdown to be scored. That has troubled me since I watched it live, and then again and again, mouth agape.
You bandwagons can praise Al as a big "character guy" ... but count me out. My eyes are wide open.
Good riddance.
... and don't forget him being suspended for a pre-season game along with Champ. And those "high character" weekly defense dinner parties? Shanny might see them as undermining things, maybe like a ladies gossip-b!tch party ... especially since Jake was a high-profile regular, and MOST especially if Al is pissed about all the new coaches. Which is very possible.

If Al Wilson really was a pr**k, would any of us know it? I think the signs are all there - getting benched for the season finale smells like lockerroom cancer to me.

[cabronco]

Despite all this wild speculation -- including by Kreiger -- it seems far more likely that Wilson's neck injury was substantial, and lasting. Shanny knows that -- and knew it at the time of the SF game. He's trying to get value for Al if at all possible. But it may not be possible any longer. Be happy if we get a second day pick for him -- or manage to package him with some other items to move up on day one.

I think its very likely. I dont see how Shanahan would bench Al, in such a meaningful game determining our fate into the playoffs. I think Al had lingering effects from the neck strain/ injury. No telling whats going on with him physically right now. If in deed thats the case , I hope its a similar scenario as Lynch had, and could continue his career one way or another.

[SoCalBronco]

... and don't forget him being suspended for a pre-season game along with Champ. And those "high character" weekly defense dinner parties? Shanny might see them as undermining things, maybe like a ladies gossip-b!tch party ... especially since Jake was a high-profile regular, and MOST especially if Al is pissed about all the new coaches. Which is very possible.

If he was a pr**k, would any of us know it? I think the signs are all there - benched for the seaon finale smells like lockerroom cancer to me.

No, I can't believe that, Senator. Al is not a cancer. Everybody loves the guy. That preseason thing was because they didnt get to the hotel or whatever before the curfew, thats hardly a character issue. I really think this is an unbelievably tremendous stretch here.....by all accounts, Al is a great guy. He may be over the hill with a little bit of a production dip, but no way is he or has he never been a cancer. He's a leader, he's respected, he's loved. Ask Champ or Lynch or Rod or really anyone. I really can't even understand this perspective, Senator.

[BroncoBuff]

Never heard those guys give anything but cursory praise ... besides, what do you expect?

The signs are there, sir, imo. Benching your captain for a season-finale that is do-or die?! It wasn't health-related, or he woullda been deactivated an hour before kickoff. C'mon, SoCal ... that is a HUGE red flag.

My eyes are wide-open.

[SoCalBronco]

Seriously....Al Wilson a lockerroom cancer?

That's like saying Bob's the next Hugh Hefner.

[-Slap-]

Wait a minute, this thread isnt about the organization doing anything to please someone, thats absurd. This is about yet another writer (as you recall, PFW, a highly reputable organization in itself, earlier made this assertion according to its sources in the organization) who seems to be saying that the team isnt happy with 2/3 of its LBs. This has nothing to do with Slap and myself. This is the TEAM (apparently) unhappy based on its review (and Bates's independent review) of various folks.

It's not my fault that it took the team 2 years to see that they made a mistake that appeared to be quite obvious to many of us at the time.

Its about people being upset we were proven right.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Dont think he is Herc. At present we dont need that additional $3.2m unless Shanahan wants to bring more players in. We're about $7m under now with a draft class of $3-$4m to come. Unless he wants to keep the money to extend Foxworth and Paymah this year.

Read what I quoted. SoCal speculated that they made the move to absorb any hit from dumping Ian. That is reading too much into a move that was a foregone conclusion.

[BroncoBuff]

This is the TEAM (apparently) unhappy based on its review (and Bates's independent review)

COUNSEL! There was no "review"!! This decision was made the week before the 49er game! We're just slowly learning about it now. I'll bet my last dollar he never suits up here again ... we'll waive him before we take him back.

[BroncoInferno]

Its about people being upset we were proven right.

You weren't right in the slightest in 2005. It definately didn't work out too well last season.

We'll see what they come up with for '07. They wouldn't be moving Al without a contingency plan, that's for sure.

[DomCasual]

Seriously....Al Wilson a lockerroom cancer?

That's like saying Bob's the next Hugh Hefner.

Well, in the sense that they both wear bath robes 24-7, I guess you could make the comparison.

[BroncoBuff]

Seriously....Al Wilson a lockerroom cancer?

That's like saying Bob's the next Hugh Hefner.

Well, I'm not IN the lockerrom, but if Krieger is right, and the SF benching (again, a do or die game) was non-injury related, open your eyes! It's staring us right in the face!

Maybe not "cancer," per se, but like I said, those weekly dinners can morph from 'bonding with teammates' get-togethers - into cancerous b!tch-fests in seconds flat ... especially after the humiliation of that benching ... and especially if he's upset about all the new coaches.

I'm sticking with my read here. The Krieger column is dynamite.

[-Slap-]

You weren't right in the slightest in 2005. It definately didn't work out too well last season.


The hell I wasn't right in 2005. Ian was the same one dimensional piece of crap then, too. Completely invisible against Pittsburgh in the AFC Championship Game while Porter and Haggins totally dominated us on the other side.

[SoCalBronco]

COUNSEL! There was no "review"!! This decision was made the week before the 49er game! We're just slowly learning about it now. I'll bet my last dollar he never suits up here again ... we'll waive him before we take him back.

That's all fine and good, lets say its true, from what we have read, it seems that the reasons are related to level of play, salary considerations etc., I don't think we have seen anything from any quarter of the media to suggest he has any of the character issues that you mentioned earlier. Yeah, that play in 2003 was a bit weird, I don't think he was trying to demean the teammate or anything, maybe just frustrated that they couldnt get off the field on that third down (which I believe it was).

I just dont think there has ever been the slightest suggestion of character issues with Al. You mentioned the defense going out to dinner and stuff with Al paying every week. It is my understanding that this started in 2003 and continued till now. If Shanny thought it was kinda like a ladies gossip fest type of thing where they would be talking about the coaches and all that jazz and didnt like that, it wouldnt have continued for several years. As far as I know he still takes the defense out on Thursdays, I remember an article from 2005 when Sauerbrun was joining them at those dinners, and I think this past year too. Nothing wrong with that, if he is really a bad guy, he isnt going to be taking his teammates out to eat and paying for it all the time. That's a team bonding, or at least defense bonding type of thing, I dont really think its analogous to a ladies gossip fest type of thing where everyone starts bitching about the staff and plotting etc.

[-Slap-]

Seriously....Al Wilson a lockerroom cancer?

That's like saying Bob's the next Hugh Hefner.

People say a lot of ridiculous things. Nothing more ridiculous than the oft repeated mantra "we have the best linebackers in football."

A mindless diversion for the legion of clueless homers on this site.

Now they're all bunged up because they suddenly realize that was the biggest lie since WMDs in Iraq.

[azbroncfan]

Zero sacks. Zero interceptions. Zero fumble recoveries. Numerous missed tackles.

Ian was a virtual juggernaut last year, alright.

The above could pretty much be said for all 3 LB's.

[atomicbloke]

I know this is a taboo question around this place....

But does anyone feel that Shanny could have done better with his personnel management tasks?

For along time we felt that Denver had one of the best and unified locker rooms, with coaches to staff to players on the same page... like one happy family....

Slowly every new piece of news is shattering this..... it seems there were issues in the Broncos camp that we didn't know about and are learning them piecewise only now....

Also, this might be OT in this thread.... but when the news of Jay taking over for Jake against the Hawks broke out... it was before the KC game.... many of you questioned the timing of the news... couldn't break the news after the KC game... why undermine the team before a big game.... many suggested a leak and Shanny would take action against the person responsible... well nothing happened and it got buried... maybe Shanny leaked it himself... maybe that pissed of some veterans.. like you know.. Big Al.... who didn't like how Shanny was handling many things....

We all thought Al was injured for the SF game... and now this news that he was benched....

And during his firing, Coyer said things to the effect that he did his best given the outside constraints.... what constraints?

Again, I ask the taboo question.... how long or what must happen.... before we start holding Shanny accountable and ask what the hell is going on and what can he do better?

[BroncoBuff]

from what we have read, it seems that the reasons are related to level of play, salary considerations etc.
"Level of play" doesn't translate to benching for the entire hyper-critical SF game ... with Gore running wild, you're telling me they decided Webster should stay in on EVERY play? With the playoffs on the line?

And 'salary' is no reason to bench your top-tackler and defensive captain on your home-season finale ... that's DO OR DIE.


I just dont think there has ever been the slightest suggestion of character issues with Al. You mentioned the defense going out to dinner and stuff with Al paying every week. It is my understanding that this started in 2003 and continued till now. If Shanny thought it was kinda like a ladies gossip fest type of thing where they would be talking about the coaches and all that jazz and didnt like that, it wouldnt have continued for several years.
Well, I didn't mean "character" as in he's a wanted felon or anything ... and I might've overstated when I said 'cancer' .... MIGHT have. But take off your fan specs for a second, and this Krieger column is truly dynamite. Your defensive captain and top tackler didn't play a single down .... yet dressed and stayed dressed, while Frank Gore grew tired running sprints past Nate Webster?! Hell-O?! Whadd'ya think the guys on the sideline were thinking? I'll bet it was a real drama on that sidelines .... remember, we're just learning this now ...

And those dinners probably are fine and all .... but how can Al reliably continue to host them after he was humilated - BENCHED - in the most important game of the year?! The other players saw that ... and I'll bet it was the #1 topic of discussion among the team that day.




http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/7293/64606565by2.gif
MY EYES ARE WIDE OPEN


He kinda lookslike Al there ... ;D

[azbroncfan]

People say a lot of ridiculous things. Nothing more ridiculous than the oft repeated mantra "we have the best linebackers in football."

mindless diversion for the legion of clueless homers on this site.A

Now they're all bunged up because they suddenly realize that was the biggest lie since WMDs in Iraq.

Glad I'm not one of those guys as I agree completely and have repeatedly said that Denver's unit is severely overrated and on a 2 year streak with NO INT's and they aren't playmakers but just fast.

[BroncoInferno]

The hell I wasn't right in 2005. Ian was the same one dimensional piece of crap then, too. Completely invisible against Pittsburgh in the AFC Championship Game while Porter and Haggins totally dominated us on the other side.

Yeah, one game totally erases the rest of his very fine 2005 season. Whatever you say, Slappy.

[BigPlayShay]

with Gore running wild, you're telling me they decided Webster should stay in on EVERY play? With the playoffs on the line?


Just watched the defensive snaps from the SF game. Webster came out in the Nickle, so if you want to blame the LBs that were on the field for EVERY play, then we need to blame Gold and DJ.

Webster had a great 1st half. The defense as a whole had a terrible 2nd half.

[SoCalBronco]

"Level of play" doesn't translate to benching for the entire hyper-critical SF game ... with Gore running wild, you're telling me they decided Webster should stay in on EVERY play? With the playoffs on the line?

And 'salary' is no reason to bench your top-tackler and defensive captain on your home-season finale ... that's DO OR DIE.


Well, I didn't mean "character" as in he's a wanted felon or anything ... and I might've overstated when I said 'cancer' .... MIGHT have. But take off your fan specs for a second, and this Krieger column is truly dynamite. Your defensive captain and top tackler didn't play a single down .... yet dressed and stayed dressed, while Frank Gore grew tired running sprints past Nate Webster?! Hell-O?! Whadd'ya think the guys on the sideline were thinking? I'll bet it was a real drama on that sidelines .... remember, we're just learning this now ...

And those dinners probably are fine and all .... but how can Al reliably continue to host them after he was humilated - BENCHED - in the most important game of the year?! The other players saw that ... and I'll bet it was the #1 topic of discussion among the team that day.




http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/7293/64606565by2.gif
MY EYES ARE WIDE OPEN


He kinda lookslike Al there ... ;D

Ok, your first two paragraphs have merit there, that is troubling, I didnt quite think of it that way. When I referred to salary considerations, it was in response to your comment that you thought he definitely wasnt coming back. But regarding the 49er game, those ARE troubling points. Gore was raping and, if Krieger is correct in that Al was activated, there is some questions that need to be answered. He did have a stiff back, albeit apparently not stiff enough to prevent his gameday activation. In the first half we were basically owning them, but definitely in the second half, he should have been in there. I still don't know whether that equates with a lockerroom type of problem, although it may be a problem between Shanny and Al themselves, who knows.

[BroncoBuff]

Just watched the defensive snaps from the SF game. Webster came out in the Nickle, so if you want to blame the LBs that were on the field for EVERY play, then we need to blame Gold and DJ.

Webster had a great 1st half. The defense as a whole had a terrible 2nd half.

Thanks, that's encouraging on Nate ...

But my point was that Wilson NEVER saw the field ... MOST important game of the year .... and NOT injury-related. Hell-OOOO?!?!


"Earth to Bandwagon ... Earth to Bandwagon ... "

"Denver, we have a problem..."

"Ground control to Captain Al..."

[backup qb]

this story seems fishy, but with Shanahan you never know.

[SureShot]

This thread makes for great reading, but all this speculation and arguing over a Krieger article?

Since when did the Mane take any Denver writer's drivel for gospel?

[-Slap-]

Yeah, one game totally erases the rest of his very fine 2005 season. Whatever you say, Slappy.

And not doing jack**** last year, except get repeatedly raped by Indy's tight ends and running backs in the first gut check game of the season.

[backup qb]

I am too lazy to look up who said it to quote them, but Wilson is a solid linebacker. He is not Urlacher, Lewis, etc. If he goes, he goes. I just want some decent value.

[Cito Pelon]

Hope this sheds some light.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/sports_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_83_5439886,00.html

Krieger: Wilson fails physical; Broncos fail chemistry


That was one rambling, raving article. He sure put a lot out on the table there. Whatever. Denver does need to build the LB corps up. DJ is the only LB on the roster that has an upside.

[SoCalBronco]

And not doing jack**** last year, except get repeatedly raped by Indy's tight ends and running backs in the first gut check game of the season.

In addition, Ian also benefitted in 2005 from the DL taking the beating for the LBs in the 2005 defensive scheme, which is something I think you have also elaborated on before. I think Coach Patterson discussed this in a preseason Q&A (preseason 05, foreshadowing it) and Trevor also made comments to that effect as well.

[BroncoBuff]

SoCal, what about DJ at Mike? Elaborate a little ... he doesn't seem like a leader personality, but can he play the position?

[ludo21]

Why do we keep shuffling DJ around!!

nooooooooooooo

either keep him at the SLB, or move him back to his spot at the WLB position!!

I dont believe this article for a second, Al will be traded caz we can get something good for him and he is aging..

[HEAV]

Webster looks like a short-term solution at best. About to turn 30 himself, with a history of knee trouble, Webster has never cracked triple digits in total tackles, something Wilson has done six times in eight NFL seasons, including the last one, when he led the team with 113, despite sitting out the finale.

Oh really Krieger ?

Not according to NFL.com stats

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133451

I only count 3 seasons of triple digit tackles.

[SureShot]

Krieger is full of ****.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I don't necessarily blame our linebackers for their lack of sacks because it seems they don't blitz that much. Coyer was a big believer in the "front four gettin' at em" which never worked, but you can't compare our linebackers to pittsburghs because they played a 3-4, a defense where the linebackers blitz frequently. Denver's linebackers get a lot of quiet numbers and do alot of things we as fans don't necessarily see because lots of times they are off screen in a general broadcasting of a game. That said, it'll be interesting to see how Coyer uses them. Maybe he'll be more aggressive with them.

[HEAV]

SoCal, what about DJ at Mike? Elaborate a little ... he doesn't seem like a leader personality, but can he play the position?

The kid has the speed,aggression, and abilty. Just needs the shot playing free. Meaning let him go a get the ball carrier/QB.

[SoCalBronco]

SoCal, what about DJ at Mike? Elaborate a little ... he doesn't seem like a leader personality, but can he play the position?

I think from the production aspect, it would be very beneficial for the team. As BroncoInferno has pointed out before, the Bates scheme seems to allow for alot of playmaking oppurtunity for the MLB in particular. DJ has the best athletic ability of the bunch, especially in terms of short area quickness and agility, and I think his gifts would be highlighted well there, as Schefter pointed out a few days ago. I really like the potential of what he can be if the scheme is conducive to him. There would be a bit of an adjustment ofcourse, but I dont think it would be too bad. The new staff noted that it was going to keep the old staff's terminology, which will benefit all of the LBs and certainly any LB in transition from one spot to another. So from a physical standpoint, I think it would be very good in terms of getting the most out of his ability. As to the personality aspects, he is introverted and not really the kind of fiery vocal leadership type, he's more of a quiet worker. If you want an emotional type of thing, that's not what he will provide. He'll provide us with superior athleticism and playmaking at that spot though. One thing I think he will need to work on is his knowledge of the game. Usually MLBs will make the audibles and checks (its not a requirement ofcourse, but it is usually customary) and he needs to continue to work and learn so that he can do that well for us if he is put in that spot.

[yerner]

krieger's a jerkoff. end of story.

[Garcia Bronco]

We didn't throw any games....our abysmal defense lost games down the stretch by folding in every game...even the Bengals game...which we won out of luck.

If Al Wilson is the heart and soul of our defense....What does that say?

It's time for a change...this has basically been going on for the better part of 8 seasons.

It sucks to lose Wilson...but here we are.

[Taco John]

Al Wilson must be a Plummer-lover...

;)

[Killericon]

I pray to the gods that it is not true, but if it is, that would make Shanahan and the entire Broncos organization the best secret-keepers in all of professional sports history.

[Taco John]

I pray to the gods that it is not true, but if it is, that would make Shanahan and the entire Broncos organization the best secret-keepers in all of professional sports history.


This is the truth. Shanahan runs a tight ship.

There is a lot of this tawdry stuff that went on under the surface when Trevor Pryce was being run out of town, er, I mean traded.

[Garcia Bronco]

[QUOTE=BroncoBuff;1525150]



And those dinners probably are fine and all .... but how can Al reliably continue to host them after he was humilated - BENCHED - in the most important game of the year?! The other players saw that ... and I'll bet it was the #1 topic of discussion among the team that day."


No it wasn't...Darrent Williams died that night

[Killericon]

This is the truth. Shanahan runs a tight ship.

There is a lot of this tawdry stuff that went on under the surface when Trevor Pryce was being run out of town, er, I mean traded.

Oh, I know it's a tight ship, but leak-proof? I mean, this came out of absolutely nowhere.

Why would Shanny have waited until now? Why wouldn't he have tried to move him earlier?

[Sarcastro]

I guess in this age of the salary cap, a team needs to pick and choose where they put their top-notch, high dollar tallent. The D-Line would seem to be the most wise, and from then on, it is just a question of correctly managing your assets

I think the Broncos made the right choice in using their cap room on a blocking TE. Who needs d-linemen or all-pro MLBs?

[eddie mac]

You weren't right in the slightest in 2005. It definately didn't work out too well last season.

We'll see what they come up with for '07. They wouldn't be moving Al without a contingency plan, that's for sure.

You give our staffing far too much credit BI. I hope it's a far better contingency plan than the groundhog year defensive line one. Dump a prospect hire a bum, dump a prospect hire a bum.

[eddie mac]

I think the Broncos made the right choice in using their cap room on a blocking TE. Who needs d-linemen or all-pro MLBs?

For the last time this is not about cap room.

[HEAV]

I think the Broncos made the right choice in using their cap room on a blocking TE. Who needs d-linemen or all-pro MLBs?

Daniel is more than just a Blocking TE.

This isn't about cap. It not all been spent on one guy. The franchise has filled TE,RB,OG,CB,DT,backupQB,FB (sp teams).

AW isn't, and wasn't, a tackling machine. Which is what is needed. He can be the biggest cheerleader out on the field. But if he doesn't make plays (tackles) then he is just an over hyped MLB trying to be Ray Lewis.

If he wants to stay, then he has to take a cut in salary and let someone else play the middle.

[sirhcyennek81]

First 5 weeks reality was sucky offenses not awesome D. Better offenses exposed our weak D.


No, better offenses were better able to exploit a weak front four. If you have nothing upfront, it makes the back 7 horrible, even if you have all pros in the back 7, which we clearly do have.

:Broncos:

[Garcia Bronco]

No, better offenses were better able to exploit a weak front four. If you have nothing upfront, it makes the back 7 horrible, even if you have all pros in the back 7, which we clearly do have.

:Broncos:

The MLB should still make more plays.

[Garcia Bronco]

Daniel is more than just a Blocking TE.

This isn't about cap. It not all been spent on one guy. The franchise has filled TE,RB,OG,CB,DT,backupQB,FB (sp teams).

AW isn't, and wasn't, a tackling machine. Which is what is needed. He can be the biggest cheerleader out on the field. But if he doesn't make plays (tackles) then he is just an over hyped MLB trying to be Ray Lewis.

If he wants to stay, then he has to take a cut in salary and let someone else play the middle.


I agree.

[Cito Pelon]

You give our staffing far too much credit BI. I hope it's a far better contingency plan than the groundhog year defensive line one. Dump a prospect hire a bum, dump a prospect hire a bum.

Jeez, I've heard the phrase "raising one's ire". Is Ireland the origin of that phrase? :~ohyah!:

I don't have a problem with your ire getting raised, the team has had some troubles getting playmakers in on D. Trying to retread the LB corps with Gold didn't seem to elevate play. Drafting DE after DE the same. Three DC's in 8 years the same. 10 DB's in 6 yrs the same. FA after FA on the DL the same. FA after FA at LB the same.

Maybe Bates can get a better D effort going in the next couple years. This is the biggest shakeup in the D staff in a long time. Ray Rhodes came in here and had to keep the same assistant staff as Robinson had. Coyer the same. At least Bates seems to has a say in who his assistants are. We'll have to see how it all pans out on D.

This team needs upgrades at a lot of positions on D, and also O. I thought last year after the O heavy draft the team would be able to concentrate on D this year, but I don't think that is the case now. The OL needs some help at OT especially, that should be addressed. D may have to wait another year. Cutler didn't strike me as an elusive guy, he struck me as a guy that needs time to set up and then he can make things happen. Best to look after his pocket time this year and let Bates manage as best he can.

[Rascal]

Jeez, I've heard the phrase "raising one's ire". Is Ireland the origin of that phrase? :~ohyah!:

I don't have a problem with your ire getting raised, the team has had some troubles getting playmakers in on D. Trying to retread the LB corps with Gold didn't seem to elevate play. Drafting DE after DE the same. Three DC's in 8 years the same. 10 DB's in 6 yrs the same. FA after FA on the DL the same. FA after FA at LB the same.

Maybe Bates can get a better D effort going in the next couple years. This is the biggest shakeup in the D staff in a long time. Ray Rhodes came in here and had to keep the same assistant staff as Robinson had. Coyer the same. At least Bates seems to has a say in who his assistants are. We'll have to see how it all pans out on D.

This team needs upgrades at a lot of positions on D, and also O. I thought last year after the O heavy draft the team would be able to concentrate on D this year, but I don't think that is the case now. The OL needs some help at OT especially, that should be addressed. D may have to wait another year. Cutler didn't strike me as an elusive guy, he struck me as a guy that needs time to set up and then he can make things happen. Best to look after his pocket time this year and let Bates manage as best he can.

A lot of positions on offense need upgrade?

And you obviously never saw Cutler play a single game in college.

[BroncoBuff]

And those dinners probably are fine and all .... but how can Al reliably continue to host them after he was humilated - BENCHED - in the most important game of the year?! The other players saw that ... and I'll bet it was the #1 topic of discussion among the team that day."

No it wasn't...Darrent Williams died that night

'That day,' smart alec... not the next morning. But that tragic event that night distracted us from the crucial indicator we received when our defensive captain and leading tackler was benched, and did not see the filed AT ALL on the season-ending, most important game of the year. Had we noticed that, then none of this trade stuff would have been even the slightest surprise.

Like everybody here, I thought he was hurt .... but the signs were all there if we were looking: He was not de-activated before kickoff, and was dressed the entire game. He was not injured.

I still say that suspension in pre-season mightta been the canary in this coalmine.

[Man-Goblin]

Genos Derwin Williams, Jr. will be the Broncos' middle linebacker next year. There is a world of difference between lining up against the TE and being in the middle where DTs in Bates' defense are suppose to eat up blockers.

[Man-Goblin]

I think from the production aspect, it would be very beneficial for the team. As BroncoInferno has pointed out before, the Bates scheme seems to allow for alot of playmaking oppurtunity for the MLB in particular. DJ has the best athletic ability of the bunch, especially in terms of short area quickness and agility, and I think his gifts would be highlighted well there, as Schefter pointed out a few days ago. I really like the potential of what he can be if the scheme is conducive to him. There would be a bit of an adjustment ofcourse, but I dont think it would be too bad. The new staff noted that it was going to keep the old staff's terminology, which will benefit all of the LBs and certainly any LB in transition from one spot to another. So from a physical standpoint, I think it would be very good in terms of getting the most out of his ability. As to the personality aspects, he is introverted and not really the kind of fiery vocal leadership type, he's more of a quiet worker. If you want an emotional type of thing, that's not what he will provide. He'll provide us with superior athleticism and playmaking at that spot though. One thing I think he will need to work on is his knowledge of the game. Usually MLBs will make the audibles and checks (its not a requirement ofcourse, but it is usually customary) and he needs to continue to work and learn so that he can do that well for us if he is put in that spot.

This is a great summation of D.J.'s strength and weaknesses. The guy is smart; he did well in school and I believe had a 21 on the wonderlic. There is no reason whatsoever he wouldn't be able to make adjustments and calls before the snap.

[Merlin]

Dave Krieger
| bioMarch 24, 2007
From the team's perspective, part of the motivation might be to avoid a confrontation over reduced playing time next year. Broncos brass has been talking for some time about adding D.J. Williams to the nickel package to increase his impact.

That would require subtracting someone - namely, Wilson or Ian Gold. Gold is the team's best cover linebacker, which means the odd man out would likely be Wilson.

What you do hear is that Williams would be more effective on the weak side, in Gold's spot, where he wouldn't have to bounce off tight ends all the time. If they're trying to free him of blockers, the middle is not the place to put him.
kriegerd@RockyMountainNews.com
It is amazint that this thread has gone for 7 pages, and a lot of assumption are based on totally misunderstanding what was stated.
First, it clearly states that Gold is the best cover LB in the team, so he MUST be out there in the nickel. Nowhere does it state that he is a liability or someone would be better than him in that context. That leaves us with Will. Again, nowhere does it state that DJ is better and Gold at playing Will, nor does it state that the organization feels it made a mistake in putting Gold there instead of DJ. All the self congratulatory statements could use a little humility. Krieger merely states that DJ would have less trouble if he didn't have to be bouncing of the TE's all of the time. Big woop de doo. Everyone knew that, in fact that is why the likes of SoCal were screaming bloody murder when DJ got moved. However, Krieger's article does not in any sense (at least as posted on this thread) state that DJ was seen as been a better or equal Will LB to Gold.

NOTE: I'm not trying to argue Gold is great, DJ is god, or that AW is finished. I'm just commenting on some of the impassioned interpretations of this article that are not clearly justified by its content.

[azbroncfan]

Denver does need to build the LB corps up. DJ is the only LB on the roster that has an upside.

And ironically DJ has been outplayed by both Gold and Wilson.

[footstepsfrom#27]

But take off your fan specs for a second, and this Krieger column is truly dynamite.
Really? I thought it smacked of baseless speculation. Where exactly is the SOURCE of information here? Krieger doesn't even claim one does he? No. In fact he seems to make it pretty clear that he's surmising this crap all on his own. There's not even an anomomous source quoted...NOTHING AT ALL...to indicate that he knows what he's talking about. This entire thread is people going postal about an article written by a guy who thinks he knows what's going on but provides ZERO evidence.
Your defensive captain and top tackler didn't play a single down .... yet dressed and stayed dressed, while Frank Gore grew tired running sprints past Nate Webster?! Hell-O?! Whadd'ya think the guys on the sideline were thinking? I'll bet it was a real drama on that sidelines .... remember, we're just learning this now ...
Learning WHAT now....??? We are "learning" absolutely NOTHING except what Krieger has whirling around in his head. What is so difficult about believing that Wilson wasn't physically able to play in that game? I think if we knew the truth, there are probably a lot of times when a player suits up but really isn't able to go. For all we know he might have hurt his back or his neck again in pre-game warmups...the point is we don't KNOW ANYTHING about this other than what Krieger thinks he's figured out. Pardon me if I choose to believe he's full of crap given the fact that Wilson's been a warrior over his whole career. This article starts off presenting no facts, no evidence...nothing...and now we have speculation that Wilson is a locker room cancer, he refused a pay cut, he was the subject of Shanny's displeasure for his play...he went out to dinner with teamates in some clandestine meeting of dissatisfied players...are you kidding me?

I think it's all about Wilson's health and whether he can go or not. If nothing else the failed physical at least offers something to go on...Krieger offers nothing.

[SoCalBronco]

It is amazint that this thread has gone for 7 pages, and a lot of assumption are based on totally misunderstanding what was stated.
First, it clearly states that Gold is the best cover LB in the team, so he MUST be out there in the nickel. Nowhere does it state that he is a liability or someone would be better than him in that context. That leaves us with Will. Again, nowhere does it state that DJ is better and Gold at playing Will, nor does it state that the organization feels it made a mistake in putting Gold there instead of DJ. All the self congratulatory statements could use a little humility. Krieger merely states that DJ would have less trouble if he didn't have to be bouncing of the TE's all of the time. Big woop de doo. Everyone knew that, in fact that is why the likes of SoCal were screaming bloody murder when DJ got moved. However, Krieger's article does not in any sense (at least as posted on this thread) state that DJ was seen as been a better or equal Will LB to Gold.

NOTE: I'm not trying to argue Gold is great, DJ is god, or that AW is finished. I'm just commenting on some of the impassioned interpretations of this article that are not clearly justified by its content.

From Krieger we gather: Gold is the best cover LB. That relates (primarily) to why he will continue to be on the field in the Nickel, it does not relate to the Will position as it stands in the run game. From Kreiger, we also gather that the team acknowledges that they made DJ less effective by putting him over the TE.

From PFW we gather: The team was disappointed in the play of Wilson AND GOLD!

So just because he happens to be the best cover LB does not mean that they do not feel that re-acquiring him was a mistake and it also does not mean that they were not disappointed with him overall .

[azbroncfan]

I think the Broncos made the right choice in using their cap room on a blocking TE. Who needs d-linemen or all-pro MLBs?

And the chefs made the right moves by improving the D with an aging LB in edwards and an overrated injury prone MLB in Harris when Mitchell is a better MLB. They also made the right move to go into the season by trading their old but proven QB with an injury prone second year player that hasn't shown anything and a proven not starter material in Huard. Don't give me the Huard rating argument until you look at the teams he beat and the ones he lost to.

[eddie mac]

Genos Derwin Williams, Jr. will be the Broncos' middle linebacker next year. There is a world of difference between lining up against the TE and being in the middle where DTs in Bates' defense are suppose to eat up blockers.

Exactly but they can only do it for the first 6-7 games of the season.

[Play2win]

This thread brings back flashbacks of the infamous "JAKE" meltdown thread... ;D

[Play2win]

Well I am going to watch Last year's Arizona game after this thread and the happenings this weekend to cheer myself up...

Just thinking of that J-BOMB to Javon Walker will bring a smile to my face... ;D

[ZONA]

In situations like this, with so much speculation and guessing going around, you have to turn to facts to see if you can find as many pieces to the puzzle. What are some of the key things that have happend recently that might have lead to us trying to deal Wilson?

1) New Defensive coach - maybe Bates doesn't think Al is a great fit for what he wants to do.

2) Wilson was in NY to take a physical and the deal was scratched - maybe Al just wasn't healthy enough to pass it.

3) Al missed the last game of the season - maybe he really was hurt. Probably is more like it. Shanny is smart enough to know that any given Sunday (you know the rest) and with a playoff birth on the line, Al would have been better then his replacement, but could not go.

4) The Broncos just signed alot of new high dollar contracts - maybe they want to clear some room for a high profile draft pick. Maybe they do intend to move up, way up.


Take these 4 factors and see what you come up with. I don't think you come up with the fact that Wilson was benched. Leading tackler last year, 5 probowls, still has his speed. Nah, I don't buy it. I think it has to do more with things that are related to the facts above, one or all of them. It is a very tricky situation though because moving Al has affects of the entire LB group. I don't think you can move Al and Ian in same year. No way. Maybe over 2 years yes. Move Al this year, move DJ to middle for one year and then move him to WILL year after when you dump Gold. You have to have a plan and sometimes it all can't be done in one year.

[baja]

People say a lot of ridiculous things. Nothing more ridiculous than the oft repeated mantra "we have the best linebackers in football."

A mindless diversion for the legion of clueless homers on this site.

Now they're all bunged up because they suddenly realize that was the biggest lie since WMDs in Iraq.

Of course there were WMD in Iraq they were moved in big trucks under the cover of darkness to Syria , just ask Mock

[baja]

Al Wilson must be a Plummer-lover...

;)

Well they do have similar "Appreciation" threads. ;D

[WoodMan]

I find it funny that so many people are ready to give Kreiger a nob job over his claims in this article. Wilson was injured. Plain as day. Carried off on a back board two weeks prior. Thumb surgically repaired immediately following the season. He skipped the pro bowl over it. Missed two days of practice the week before the niner game. Once again, Kreiger is full of Sh!t.
Some of you have worked yourselves into a frenzy over pure speculation by a flavor clown sports writer for the RMN. :giggle:

[BroncoBuff]

Really? I thought it smacked of baseless speculation. Where exactly is the SOURCE of information here? Krieger doesn't even claim one does he? No. In fact he seems to make it pretty clear that he's surmising this crap all on his own. There's not even an anomomous source quoted...NOTHING AT ALL...to indicate that he knows what he's talking about.

You're right, to the extent that all my speculation is based on Krieger's article being correct, but we actually have enough independent info to conclude he is 100% accurate ... in fact, it's been staring us in the face all this time:1. Starting MLB Wilson was NOT deactivated prior to kickoff - we all saw him in pads.
2. Team Captain Wilson did not play one down, even to spell Webster.
3. Leading tackler Wilson was benched for the BIGGEST GAME of the year.
If it were an injury, he wouldda been de-activated ... and if an injury flared up in the last 60 minutes before kickoff (highly doubtful) he wouldda taken the uni off ... at leat at halftime. And we wouldda heard about it postgame.

That's all I need to know, the pieces all fit. And he cannot continue here in any capacity after being benched in the biggest game of the year, imo.

[BroncoBuff]

Actually, Garcia Bronco stumbled upon the reason why we've never put two and two together here .... the D-Will tragedy went down just hours later. Besides, sensitive stuff like this - whatever Al has done wrong - is often kept quiet forever. There's 60+ guys on the expanded roster, and by sheer chance, there must be at least 4 or 5 total pr!cks. But I have no idea who they are .... do you? I've heard a few things about Stephen Alexander, but I don't know really. It's all guesswork.

But that benching was not guesswork ... and we don't need Krieger. All the pieces fit, and it's pretty apparent Al has done something really bad - at least in Shanny's view - to be humiliated as a benched captain in the biggest game of the year. If Al was simply playing sub-par, then they might start Webster, fine. But they wouldn't keep Captain Al on the bench the entire game!


OKAY: Just for fun. I'm no Hollywood insider, but I've known a handful of people in the know. And I'm satisfied - from multiple independednt sources - that the following is true. A good exercise to show that - especially in public arenas like sports/entertainment/politics - people don't speak up, and we 'fans' have no idea who's a richard, and who's not. For example, 99% of Americans wouldda laughed in your face in 1962 if you had told them both John and Bobby Kennedy had slept with Marylin Monroe, or that Fancis Cardinal Spellman was gay, and he porked teenage boys on a nightly basis. But we know it's true now.

Okay ... TWO of the following five actors are widely known to be insufferable pr!cks ... perfectly awful bastards who cuss at peons, demean them, throw crap ... and the seas parts when the knock comes to their trailer doors, and the crew scatters. Again, this seems to be widely accepted as true, from multiple independent sources. Guess which two:
1. Val Kilmer
2. Russell Crowe
3. Tommy Lee Jones
4. Kurt Russell
5. Dennis Hopper
6. Colin Ferrell

[SureShot]

Actually, Garcia Bronco stumbled upon the reason why we've never put two and two together here .... the D-Will tragedy went down just hours later. Besides, sensitive stuff like this - whatever Al has done wrong - is often kept quiet forever. There's 60+ guys on the expanded roster, and by sheer chance, there must be at least 4 or 5 total pr!cks. But I have no idea who they are .... do you? I've heard a few things about Stephen Alexander, but I don't know really. It's all guesswork.

But that benching was not guesswork ... and we don't need Krieger. All the pieces fit, and it's pretty apparent Al has done something really bad - at least in Shanny's view - to be humiliated as a benched captain in the biggest game of the year. If Al was simply playing sub-par, then they might start Webster, fine. But they wouldn't keep Captain Al on the bench the entire game!


OKAY: Just for fun. I'm no Hollywood insider, but I've known a handful of people in the know. And I'm satisfied - from multiple independednt sources - that the following is true. A good exercise to show that - especially in public arenas like sports/entertainment/politics - people don't speak up, and we 'fans' have no idea who's a richard, and who's not. For example, 99% of Americans wouldda laughed in your face in 1962 if you had told them both John and Bobby Kennedy had slept with Marylin Monroe, or that Bishop Fulton Sheen was gay, and he porked teenage boys on a nightly basis. But we know it's true now.

Okay ... TWO of the following five actors are widely known to be insufferable pr!cks ... perfectly awful bastards who cuss at peons, demean them, throw crap ... and the seas parts when the knock comes to their trailer doors, and the crew scatters. Again, this seems to be widely accepted as true, from multiple independent sources. Guess which two:
1. Val Kilmer
2. Russell Crowe
3. Tommy Lee Jones
4. Kurt Russell
5. Dennis Hopper
6. Colin Ferrell




Is this the Entertainment section of the Mane?:giggle:

[BroncoBuff]

No, just trying to make a point that we fanboys wear rose-colored glasses sometimes. The signs were all there ... but we refused to see them.

(BTW - my bad, it was Francis Cardinal Spellman, not Bishop Sheen)

[BigPlayShay]

Okay Buff, I have figured it out. This is why Al was benched for the SF game, yet he still was suited up:

1. I watched the defensive snaps of the cincy game tonight. His performance in the Cincy game was AWFUL. He was tentative, got blocked or took himself out of the playon most runs, and when he was around the ball carrier tried to make arm tackles. It was actually pretty sickening to watch again. John Lynch played amazing and saved the LBs asses on numerous occasions.

2. Keith Burns was deactivated due to a hand injury leaving Al as the only option, the only other guy that could play MLB and make the defensive calls if Webster was hurt.

3. Your contention that Al could have come in to spell Webster would make sense if LB were a position where there is a lot of "spelling" going on. There is hardly any spelling that goes on with LBs. In fact the only spelling I can think of are with RBs, WRs, and sometimes but not often DBs. And as I stated in an earlier post, Webster played fairly well and came out in Nicle situations. A lot of the running success that SF had was when Denver was in the Nickle.

There is the reason for the "benching"

As for why he is on the trading block see Zona's post.

[SureShot]

So...which two?

[baja]

Actually, Garcia Bronco stumbled upon the reason why we've never put two and two together here .... the D-Will tragedy went down just hours later. Besides, sensitive stuff like this - whatever Al has done wrong - is often kept quiet forever. There's 60+ guys on the expanded roster, and by sheer chance, there must be at least 4 or 5 total pr!cks. But I have no idea who they are .... do you? I've heard a few things about Stephen Alexander, but I don't know really. It's all guesswork.

But that benching was not guesswork ... and we don't need Krieger. All the pieces fit, and it's pretty apparent Al has done something really bad - at least in Shanny's view - to be humiliated as a benched captain in the biggest game of the year. If Al was simply playing sub-par, then they might start Webster, fine. But they wouldn't keep Captain Al on the bench the entire game!


OKAY: Just for fun. I'm no Hollywood insider, but I've known a handful of people in the know. And I'm satisfied - from multiple independednt sources - that the following is true. A good exercise to show that - especially in public arenas like sports/entertainment/politics - people don't speak up, and we 'fans' have no idea who's a richard, and who's not. For example, 99% of Americans wouldda laughed in your face in 1962 if you had told them both John and Bobby Kennedy had slept with Marylin Monroe, or that Fancis Cardinal Spellman was gay, and he porked teenage boys on a nightly basis. But we know it's true now.

Okay ... TWO of the following five actors are widely known to be insufferable pr!cks ... perfectly awful bastards who cuss at peons, demean them, throw crap ... and the seas parts when the knock comes to their trailer doors, and the crew scatters. Again, this seems to be widely accepted as true, from multiple independent sources. Guess which two:
1. Val Kilmer
2. Russell Crowe
3. Tommy Lee Jones
4. Kurt Russell
5. Dennis Hopper
6. Colin Ferrell

Your going to look pretty silly when it comes out that Al re-injured himself before the game.

Here's why your detective work is flawed;

If Shanny wanted to bench Al he would have deactivated him if for no other reason than to make the guys he wanted to be available to play active.

If Shanny was so very disgusted with Al's play or attitude and planed to trade him he would have deactivated Al so as to not raise suspicion such has happen now.

Above all else Shanny wants to win, no way he does not use Al when Webster was playing so badly in the second half just to show his displeasure toward Al.

You are wrong wrong wrong!

Answer to your prick question.

Russal Crowe is one, my friend worked with him on Bounty and said he is lucky the Mexicans did not kill him (Filmed in Roserato Mx.).

The second one I'm going with Will Ferrell because he is not someone you would naturally think of when compiling a list of actors and all the others are near house hold names that you would think of off the top of your head. Besides he looks like a prick and his body lauguage says "I love me very much and you suck because you are not me"

[baja]

Actually now that I think about it all those guys could be pricks

[Kaylore]

Val Kilmer. No one wants to work with him. He's a total jack ass.

As for this article.

I love the "Gold is the best cover linebacker" line. What a joke. All you have to do is go back to the Cowboys game and watch Jason Witten earn his pro bowl visit in that game.

Gold and Wilson couldn't tackle last year. There were numerous times they were in the right place and then just bounced off the running backs and gave up big gains. It was terrible. I also don't think the defensive line was as terrible as people think. The interior wasn't great, but Ekuban alone played well enough to keep them from being awful. With Dumervil and Lang, they weren't great but they weren't terrible either.

In my opnion, most of our problems on defense were from not getting enough pass rush, our line backers not tackling or making any big plays, and Darrent Williams getting worked over all year.

[Play2win]

There is the reason for the "benching"

As for why he is on the trading block see Zona's post.

I just got done watching the Arizona Game.He play fairly well in the first half, but in the second half he was obviously playing upright way too much. The best LB in that game was gold. He made some plays, tackles for losses, etc. But Al did cause a breakup in the endzone which denied the cardinals a TD.

Basically none of the LBs played that good in that game.

But CUT was fantastic, not just on the 60-whatever yarder, he made solid quick throws all throughout the game. He gets the ball out so quick, the defense does not have time to react. The future is so bright, I've got to wear shades, even at 3 o'clock in the morning... ;D

[Play2win]

Val Kilmer. No one wants to work with him. He's a total jack ass.



VAL may be a jackass, but DOC in Tombstone has got to be one of the finest performances in modern times... (post Olivier, Grant, Brando)

[Kaylore]

VAL may be a jackass, but DOC in Tombstone has got to be one of the finest performances in modern times... (post Olivier, Grant, Brando)

He's talented, no question, but people hate him and he can't get work because of it.

[Play2win]

DJ Williams was a non-factor in that game. he basically arive late on almost every play. Gold got pushed around a bit, but had a steller pass break-up on a sure first down. Al had some real good plays, but, in the second half, played way too upright.

But all this play was, of course, determined by the non-existance of our D-Line...

[Play2win]

He's talented, no question, but people hate him and he can't get work because of it.

There are two sides to that story, but in alot of ways he was just "Acting Naturally" in Top Gun.

Still that does not take away from how truly magnificent he was in Tombstone.

I'll Be Your HUCKLEBERRY...

[Play2win]

I will also go see any movie that has Morgan Freeman in it.

[baja]

I will also go see any movie that has Morgan Freeman in it.

Ditto

And good call on Kilmar in Tombstone

[BroncoBuff]

Your going to look pretty silly when it comes out that Al re-injured himself before the game.

Yes ... well, me and Krieger. My theory is largely based on Krieger's column, though I think the signs were there anyway. Now they're saying "the deal's not dead yet," which means means Shanny's lowering the price.

Watch - we'll take a a conditional 3rd or 4th rounder before this is over. Will that convince you I'm on to something? A conditional 4th rounder?

[BroncoBuff]

Val Kilmer. No one wants to work with him. He's a total jack ass.
Bingo! :thumbsup:

As in-freaking-credible as Kilmer was portraying Jim Morrison in "The Doors," Oliver Stone was scared to death to take him on, and supposedly had numerous conduct clauses put in the contract.

The other was Tommy Lee Jones. I heard numerous stories from the "Volcano" set where apparently he threw things at the crew, and cussed them.

Russell Crowe has lots of stuff said about him, so baja is probably right ... but I knew a girl who worked on an obscure movie he made with Salma Hayak (I forgot the name), and she said he was a perfect gentleman, outgoing and friendly, and that he encouranged cameraderie among the cast and crew.

The only thing I heard about Colin Ferell is he's a potty-mouth who will screw anything with two legs. :~ohyah!:



But again, I've never met any of these guys personally, I'm just passing on rumor and innuendo :wiggle:

[baja]

Yes ... well, me and Krieger. My theory is largely based on Krieger's column, though I think the signs were there anyway. Now they're saying "the deal's not dead yet," which means means Shanny's lowering the price.

Watch - we'll take a a conditional 3rd or 4th rounder before this is over. Will that convince you I'm on to something? A conditional 4th rounder?

Wow dude, your position is based on a media guy who is renown for a provoking style of journalism and than you take your initial assumption and pile more assumptions on top of yet more assumptions. Is this going to end with Al in bed with Shanny's wife? ;D

[baja]

PS Wad I right - all of them (actors)

[BroncoBuff]

PS Wad I right - all of them (actors)
(you mean "was"?) Again, I've never met any of them, but Kurt Russell and Dennis Hopper are supposedly very nice guys.

I respect what you heard about Russell Crowe, especially from the locals, and of course there's lots of stories about his temper in the tabloids, but this Andrea girl I knew is a costumer at Warner Bros - and she said he was a truly friendly, great guy. But I think that movie with Salma Hayek was right before he broke out in L.A. Confidential, which might've changed him.

My favorite actor lately is Josh Holloway ... he plays "Sawyer" in LOST. An incredible actor who's created an amazingly powerful and deep character there. Anyway, a few months ago, he's a guest on The View ... (don't EVEN ask why I was watching The View), and it turns out he's a completely goofy bastage! Totally goofy. Reminded me of me. ;D Nothing - at all - like Sawyer.

And that's my point - you can't tell a guy by his performance in 'the ring.'

[Odysseus]

Sometimes Shanahan handles things poorly.

I think this is an example of that. Benching him was a mistake. They looked like utter **** against SF. Wilson is the heart of the defense, even if his play is declining.

The other players take notice of how Shanny is handling and treating Wilson and I am sure they think it is a crock of ****.

Shanahan is a players coach. Almost any player will tell you this but what amazes me is how many times a player goes bad and the reasoning the put forward. A lot of it lately doesn't make that much sense.

[wabbit]

...
Watch - we'll take a a conditional 3rd or 4th rounder before this is over. Will that convince you I'm on to something? A conditional 4th rounder?

Sadly, I have to agree, although I'm betting Shanahan might squeeze out something better than a conditional third or fourth...perhaps a conditional second or third.

At any rate, the conditional pick seems the best way out of all this...damn.

The Broncos have essentially already spent the savings, even though Als' attorney maintains he could still play for Denver this year...just doesn't seem likely at this point.

[Play2win]

I cry for AL... I don't know about the rest of you... but a Bronco true and blue... and orange!!!

[baja]

Sadly, I have to agree, although I'm betting Shanahan might squeeze out something better than a conditional third or fourth...perhaps a conditional second or third.

At any rate, the conditional pick seems the best way out of all this...damn.

The Broncos have essentially already spent the savings, even though Als' attorney maintains he could still play for Denver this year...just doesn't seem likely at this point.

So is this about money or money and declining play

[baja]

This Al Wilson thing has a bad ring to it.

There is a reason the Broncos have played with little heart for the last several years. We have been through many a coach and player the one constant is Shanahan. could he be the problem?

I use the AFC championship game as a good example of this, it was clear to me that Pittsburgh wanted it more.

Maybe we need 10 or 12 more coaches

It feels like something is not right in Dove valley.

[footstepsfrom#27]

This Al Wilson thing has a bad ring to it.

There is a reason the Broncos have played with little heart for the last several years. We have been through many a coach and player the one constant is Shanahan. could he be the problem?

I use the AFC championship game as a good example of this, it was clear to me that Pittsburgh wanted it more.

Maybe we need 10 or 12 more coaches

It feels like something is not right in Dove valley.
Well we go through another defensive coordinator about every 3 years so what does that tell you about whether Mike knows that side of the ball like he does the offense? Bates is the lastest savior...just like Robinson, Rhodes and Coyer before him...care to guess how long before he's fired? We have no defensive continuity in coaching and we constantly switch back and forth on philosphy, so how can we ever build a championship defense?

[baja]

Well we go through another defensive coordinator about every 3 years so what does that tell you about whether Mike knows that side of the ball like he does the offense? Bates is the lastest savior...just like Robinson, Rhodes and Coyer before him...care to guess how long before he's fired? We have no defensive continuity in coaching and we constantly switch back and forth on philosphy, so how can we ever build a championship defense?

Sometimes I wonder if Shanahan with all the rules and details has not taken the fun out of the game for our players.

There is a noticeable difference in the sideline attitude of a Cower team as versus a Shanahan coached team. Our players play with way less fire it seems like to me.

[Tombstone RJ]

Sometimes I wonder if Shanahan with all the rules and details has not taken the fun out of the game for our players.

There is a noticeable difference in the sideline attitude of a Cower team as versus a Shanahan coached team. Our players play with way less fire it seems like to me.

That's just a personal observation on your part.

Cowher's teams have been to two SBs and won one SB during his extensive tenure has the Steeler's HC. That's pretty good, but Shanahan has just as good, if not better, winning record than Cowher over the last 10+ years (just guessing here).

Shanahan's teams may not look like a bunch of excited kids dancing on the sideline of a game, but that does not mean they are not into the game. Shanahan's teams approach each game with a professional attitude and for the most part, it's an attitude that works.

[Willynowei]

Sometimes I wonder if Shanahan with all the rules and details has not taken the fun out of the game for our players.

There is a noticeable difference in the sideline attitude of a Cower team as versus a Shanahan coached team. Our players play with way less fire it seems like to me.
But theres not much noticeable attitude difference between a Shanahan coached team and a Belicheck coached team.

[Willynowei]

The problem used to be at least, that Shanahan was doing too much with personell management. Last two drafts/offseasons have been terrific with great pick ups. I think Shanny is improving his system with each year.

[colonelbeef]

Way too much overanalyzation of a simple situation here. Shanahan wants to get younger on defense. Al Wilson is on the decline, but still has serious market value, to the point where he can bring back a few middle round picks. The "cash on hand" money being a factor is a smokescreen; makes the teams that need a linebacker think that a firesale is taking place- the Broncos are at the top of the league in terms of revenue/expenditure, they make money hand over fist, a few million will not decide wether or not they keep a truly productive player. When have we known the Broncos not to be right at the salary cap? Shanahan and Bowlen always have and always will spend, it's one of the reasons they are relevant year in and year out. They know Wilson is no more than a year or two away from being shot, its time to move him. Best way is to trade now, get picks, his $ comes off the cap next year, and hopefully they have a few '07 pickups to show for it. I love Al Wilson for what he has done for us. Time to move on.

Take this and apply it to lynch next year also please heh

[colonelbeef]

Addendum- What Shanahan did last year, grabbing Cutler out of nowhere and getting rid of Plummer, will go down as one of the great NFL personnel maneuvers of the past 25 years. Shanahan is the best coach in the NFL this side of Belichick, amazing how underappreciated this guy is in Denver at times

[Paladin]

Shanahan is the best coach in the NFL this side of Belichick, amazing how underappreciated this guy is in Denver at times

That has always been a characteristic of Denver fans. The players and coaches are never "good enough" or never "deserving" of a championship. No team is perfect, but they win. The Broncos are not perfect, but the franchise has been fabulously successful over the past 30 year. Shanahan has been putting out winning teams since he got here, But he isn't "good enough" for some fans, and the team is "seriously flawed" and will "not win anything" etc, etc. et-fugging-cetera. The Broncos are currently better off than many teams in the league, maybe not as good - on paper - as a couple of others, but they have the same chance to win as any other team out there. I do not think anyone would seriously propose that the Broncos - even as currently confgigured - would not win more games than they lose this year. They will win 9+ games, nearly without making any further changes in their roster.

Why is that a bad thing?

[cmhargrove]

krieger's a jerkoff. end of story.

I second that one, he's a freakin' douchebag. I don't see how he can write for or about the Broncos because all his swill is anti-Bronco. Look at his face, he could very well be related to Al Davis.

I skipped a few pages here, but my 2 cents worth...

1) We all knew last year that the defensive problems were on the line, why has that all changed since we haven't played any games? Our Offense couldn't maintain drives in the second half and we squandered leads against teams like Indy. Remember, we were kicking their a$$ at halftime.

2) We couldn't adapt our defensive gameplans in the second half, that is why Coyer was fired. This was obvious to all of us last year, nobody blamed Al Wilson, and they shouldn't blame him now.


We have changed what we need to change. If Bly comes to camp ready to roll, and we get some D-line help in the draft we should be doing great. We don't need to can our linebackers, they contribute as much as they should in any defensive scheme. With any age / size issues you may list on our LB corps, tell me 5 teams that you think did better at LB position last year?

Finally, about Webster last year. I was excited to see him play, but his lack of activity over the season probably made him rusty. He is no Al Wilson (yet). He flat out missed a tackle on the sidelines against SF and allowed the FB to rumble 30 yards for a score (which proved decisive). He just flat out left his feet when he didn't need to. Too much looking for a highlight instead of just playing his assignment.

Al should retire a Bronco. Give him a D-line that doesn't falter in the second half and he very well should make another pro-bowl.

[Bladerunner]

I know this is a taboo question around this place....

But does anyone feel that Shanny could have done better with his personnel management tasks?

Again, I ask the taboo question.... how long or what must happen.... before we start holding Shanny accountable and ask what the hell is going on and what can he do better?

This is a reasonable question, and I certainly don't think that it's taboo, but every time I hear it, I wonder what exactly does it mean?

What does "holding Shanny accountable" mean exactly?

Now I'm not talking about the lemmings that recite the "Trust in Shanny." mantra.

I'm talking about the folks that assert that the firing of Coyer or the attempt to trade Wilson is some sort of maneuver by Shanahan to deflect accountability away from himself.

Shanahan is the head coach and the GM. When things go wrong, a HC and GM have only a few options, stay the course and keep you roster and staff as is, change the coaching staff, change the roster, change both, or resign.

It seems as if any move other than the last is interpreted by some as some shirk of responsibility by the HC/GM. I think this is hogwash. A HC is paid to make the difficult hiring and firing decisions. Shanahan making such decisions is not a failure of accountability on his part, if fact, it is an acceptance of accountability for past mistakes or current deficiencies. Shanahan has made plenty of mistakes in his time in Denver, his defensive drafting has been lousy, Maurice Clarett was a laughable misstep, we haven't kept a single good DE we have had, and this Al Wilson situation is looking pretty messy, but his decision to replace the DC or even look at replacing Middle Linebacker is not throwing someone under the bus, its making football decisions in the interest of putting a better team on the field.

Absent making these moves, if Shanny isn't happy with the current situation, what should he do? Stand pat? Resign?

Of course not...if you went team-by-team and compared head coaches across the NFL with Shanny, there are preciously damn few that anyone with a lick of sense would swap with. Arguably none.

Mike Shanahan is not a perfect coach, none of those exist. But he is a very good coach and he is capable of making the difficult, often unpopular, decisions in an effort to put a better team on the field. It's not shirking responsibility, its called being a head coach.

[footstepsfrom#27]

That has always been a characteristic of Denver fans. The players and coaches are never "good enough" or never "deserving" of a championship. No team is perfect, but they win. The Broncos are not perfect, but the franchise has been fabulously successful over the past 30 year. Shanahan has been putting out winning teams since he got here, But he isn't "good enough" for some fans, and the team is "seriously flawed" and will "not win anything" etc, etc. et-fugging-cetera.
Calm down and relax...believe it or not it's actually possible to appreciate Mike Shanahan and believe he's an excellent coach without worshiping the ground this guy walks on. It's not like he's going anywhere as long as Bowlen's here so where is it written he's above criticism? The fact is, Shanahan has had 4 defensive coordinators in the last few years and has failed to establish a consistent defensive philosophy, which is why we keep jumping back and forth with different styles and players who fit different systems. Add that to the fact that we don't know how to draft or keep top notch defensive linemen and you have a recipe that means exiting from the playoffs short of the ultimate prize each year. We've got a great offensive mind here. I wish he'd find another one for the defense.

[Cito Pelon]

A lot of positions on offense need upgrade?

And you obviously never saw Cutler play a single game in college.

I think OT, OG the team needs to upgrade. I should have put it this way - "O has some poisitions that need to be upgraded also". WR needs some depth.

As for Cutler, no I didn't watch him at all in college. Nevertheless, I believe he's a guy that has some escapability, but not a whole lot. I don't think he'll be a guy that runs around a lot buying time. He needs time to set up, especially early in his career.

[Cito Pelon]

And ironically DJ has been outplayed by both Gold and Wilson.

I don't think DJ was given the opportunity to outplay Gold. Why I don't know. Maybe the local media will come up with something in a year or so. :approve:

[16-JakE-16]

Just reviewing the change in attitude among the fans is incredibly comical. Two months ago Al Wilson was indispensible, and now that the media is dogging him he's barely above average.
Now let me rant about the insanely stupid notions that some of you are expressing.

D.J. Williams to mike? You can't be serious. When was the last time he played in that spot? I'm honestly too amazed to go any further than asking that simple question.

Draft Patrick Willis in the first round. Oh that'll accomplish a lot, because the linebackers are the biggest concern on this team. I'm going to go ahead and guess that about 5% of the retards supporting this idea have actually even seen ****ing Ole Miss play. Stop the damn draft infatuation. The draft is nowhere near important as some people make it out to be.

[Cito Pelon]

. . . . . . .But again, I've never met any of these guys personally, I'm just passing on rumor and innuendo :wiggle:

In that case, you and Krieger are birds of a feather. ;)

[BroncoBuff]

tweet tweet









(Actually, Krieger is something I'm not .... not that there's anything wrong with it.)

[Cito Pelon]

This Al Wilson thing has a bad ring to it.

There is a reason the Broncos have played with little heart for the last several years. We have been through many a coach and player the one constant is Shanahan. could he be the problem?

I use the AFC championship game as a good example of this, it was clear to me that Pittsburgh wanted it more.

Maybe we need 10 or 12 more coaches

It feels like something is not right in Dove valley.

I don't think Shanny is big on motivation. He doesn't ramp the team up to a fever pitch before the game. He doesn't rally the team on the sideline when the going gets tough. That's not his style. His style is preparation. He needs better players and assistants than some other HC may need, that's where he gets his gameday leadership and rally spirit.

[Cito Pelon]

But theres not much noticeable attitude difference between a Shanahan coached team and a Belicheck coached team.

With better players and assistant staff, Shanny goes on a roll like Belichik did, IMO. Belichik built his staff up to a top level, as did Cowher. Look at the number of Belichik and Cowher assistants that have gone on to be HC's. Holmgren in GB had the same level of assistants. Walsh in SF. Shanny needs some better assistant staff, like he had in the SB years.

[azbroncfan]

I don't think DJ was given the opportunity to outplay Gold. Why I don't know. Maybe the local media will come up with something in a year or so. :approve:

Well as far as the WLB vs SLB argument it is true that the WLB has more playmaking opportunities. If you look at SB teams Romo made the most plays out of the LB's and which one did he play? The SLB. DJ should make more plays than he does.

[footstepsfrom#27]

The draft is nowhere near important as some people make it out to be.
Tell that to the Patriots. It's supremely important to teams that know how to draft...not so much to those that like to plug in retreads to patch holes though.

[azbroncfan]

Tell that to the Patriots. It's supremely important to teams that know how to draft...not so much to those that like to plug in retreads to patch holes though.

Ask the Squeelers too and the Colts for that matter. All those teams gamble and play rookies instead of retreads.

[dsmoot]

They know Wilson is no more than a year or two away from being shot, its time to move him. Best way is to trade now, get picks, his $ comes off the cap next year, and hopefully they have a few '07 pickups to show for it. I love Al Wilson for what he has done for us. Time to move on.

Take this and apply it to lynch next year also please heh

Hasn't this been one facet of the success New England has experienced. They do not hold onto veterans too long. No sentimentality. Get rid of them while they still have value and do not give lucrative contracts near the end of their value playing days.

[MechanicalBull]

Ask the Squeelers too and the Colts for that matter. All those teams gamble and play rookies instead of retreads.

That's one of my biggest pet peeves about Shanahan. Enough with these retreads. It took him this long to finally gamble and trade up and get a QB with huge potential. Now do that with the defense instead of getting every Cleveland Brown cast off and guys like Wilkinson.

[Cito Pelon]

Well as far as the WLB vs SLB argument it is true that the WLB has more playmaking opportunities. If you look at SB teams Romo made the most plays out of the LB's and which one did he play? The SLB. DJ should make more plays than he does.

DJ doesn't have a lot of experience at LB. Dude's an athlete. He got to UM by being an athlete, got to Denver by being an athlete. He seemed like he was a real football player rather than just an athlete in his rookie year. I guess we'll find out in the next two years if he's just an athlete like Ian Gold, or has football skills. If he doesn't show football skills in the next 2 years, he's a bust.

[Bob]

"Al Wilson is on the decline, but still has serious market value, to the point where he can bring back a few middle round picks."

Tired of hearing this idea -- everything that I am hearing, is that he now does NOT have much market value... we may get a conditional pick… maybe a third?

The draft is a blast to watch because hope springs eternal, and even Lion fans (in their delusion) will believe that the addition of Calvin Johnson will make them playoff bound. The truth is there was only one Terrell Davis, and proportionately many more first round flops. See Ted Gregory. So for fantasy geeks this may be a fun exercise, but as for me I think that the chances of Wilson playing for 2-3 years at a pro-bowl level is higher then finding a gem in the rough, who will perform well for us NEXT year.

Wilson was banged up last year, and with a broken thumb missed some tackles, but still played better then Gold on a line-backing core that is considered widely as one of the best in the league. So if we were talking some great deal to push us way up in the first, maybe I could get excited, but the opportunity cost seems too great right now.

[chrisp]

You need strong drafting throughout the draft, becuase quality depth in the draft is cheaper than quality depth via FA.

The reason we are in a bit of a minor cap squeeze is because we drafted poorly a few years back (2003 in particular was a MAJOR stinker..) and are paying the price, however last year's draft was particularly good (or seems so at the moment) and if we have a similar draft this year it should help balance out a few years of ropey drafting from the early 21st century.

Last offseason we were a team that had drafted a much smaller proportion of the active roster than other teams around the league had. This offseason we may be in better shape with more of our draft picks hanging around..

[Mediator12]

This thread is a serious discussion of what eveyone should see that happened the last two years in DEN with the CLE DL imports.

1. The Overall defense went from two years of top 5 finishes with a mediocre DL, to average with a bottom 5 DL.

2. The run defense and second half play when it counts performed worse than the previous meltdown seasons. The LB's were totalled as a unit covering five or six seconds per pass play, when most are 3-4 seconds. It requires more physical and mental energy to cover for NO PASS RUSH. The secondary surrendered deeper longer developing routes than in the past without getting beat for deep big plays.

3. Part of the reason DEN's defense was so poor in the second half of the year and second half of the game's was that the offense was just as bad OR WORSE. In two of Jay Cutler's losses, he threw a pick six in the second half that was the difference in the final score of the game. The Offense was also pathetic when the game mattered the most.

Other points from this thread:

1. DEN's offense was worse than the defense, who also played horrible in the second half of the SF game. Jay Cutler gave them a pick six and the Offense settled for two fg's inside the 3 yard line.

2. Shanahan is also a preparation style coach like Coyer Was. Together, they put forth masterful first half gameplans that made the team look better than they were. Neither coach could solve the second halves though compensating for poor execution. The broncos were number one in first half point differential for four years and 31st in second half point differential. For some reason, everyone blames the defense for the second half collpases playing against teams that were desperate to score. What about the offense that never scored second half points?

3. Big play shay hit the nail on the head about the Al Wilson SF situation. Wilson was a failsafe who would not have even dressed if Burns was able to play. DEN had no depth a MIKE unless Cameron Vaughn played and he had never taken an NFL snap in a must win game.

4. How did everyone miss the fact that Kirk Doll was fired as LB's coach? He failed to get the LB's to play better throught the season as well. All three LB's received the WORST grades they have had in a DEN uniform after the season. Part of that was covering for the DL, part of that was just poor play.

5. That includes DJ Williams. People DJ has started Three years in DEN and has failed to make plays from ANY position. Socal has said he had a bunch of TFL's as Will. Do you remember one of them? I do not. People remember playmaker's plays, DJ's are not memorable IMHO. Gold played OK last year, but he did get burned a lot. Just not as much as DJ in almost twice as many snaps. Someone mentioned DJ is smart, but smart is not play savy or instintual. The reason DJ could not get plays in the nickle is he kept busting them in PRACTICE. If you can not run them right in practice, Why in the hell should he blow them in games?

[Garcia Bronco]

2. Shanahan is also a preparation style coach like Coyer Was. Together, they put forth masterful first half gameplans that made the team look better than they were. Neither coach could solve the second halves though compensating for poor execution. The broncos were number one in first half point differential for four years and 31st in second half point differential. For some reason, everyone blames the defense for the second half collpases playing against teams that were desperate to score. What about the offense that never scored second half points?


I hear you, but the defense let the other team go down and score. Their job is to keep that from happening. They failed in every late game this season.

[Rascal]

After hearing some stuff lately, it sounds like Shanny and company went to Wilson and asked him to redo his contract because he wasn't playing up to it. He rebuked that idea. So Shanny as always said, fine then orchestrate a trade that gets "x" amount of value. So Wilson goes out and hires a new agent that has done that in the past for the Broncos, and gets a suitor in NY Giants. But then for whatever reasons he fails the physical. Now his trade value his falling, as Shanny knew it would, and he can't get the value that the Broncos demanded. So in the end he will come back, but do so at a lesser salary. Unless he can somehow pass a physical and get another team to take the risk, which I doubt is going to happen.

[Garcia Bronco]

After hearing some stuff lately, it sounds like Shanny and company went to Wilson and asked him to redo his contract because he wasn't playing up to it. He rebuked that idea. So Shanny as always said, fine then orchestrate a trade that gets "x" amount of value. So Wilson goes out and hires a new agent that has done that in the past for the Broncos, and gets a suitor in NY Giants. But then for whatever reasons he fails the physical. Now his trade value his falling, as Shanny knew it would, and he can't get the value that the Broncos demanded. So in the end he will come back, but do so at a lesser salary. Unless he can somehow pass a physical and get another team to take the risk, which I doubt is going to happen.

I agree

[Cito Pelon]

This thread is a serious discussion of what eveyone should see that happened. . . . . .

Nice post. You forgot ST's though. :wiggle: You covered O and D shortcomings, but it takes a three phase team to win the big Titles. Denver still needs probably 3 more playmakers on D at LB, S and DE, 1 more on ST's, and a better Oline. The O skill set looks ok if Stokley can produce, but that OL worries me no end.

On D I think Bly was a great addition. He'll play this year, but he's looking for an extension. I don't have a problem with that, and he's not running his mouth about it, he's biding his time.

Maybe the team has one of the playmakers on D already at DE. Elvis was no slouch last year. Safety and LB, I don't think they have the playmakers. That will have to be addressed. There's a lot of maybes on this team, they'll need a good draft.

[anthonypacino]

I don't know about that, I think that part was Krieger speculating. Remember, in that article earlier about the linebackers in Bates scheme, it was noted that the MLB position is expected to be the most productive.

I am glad though, to see the staff is finally figuring that they made a colossal ****up when they displaced DJ.

I have a feeling that we are trading our first for some later round picks and MLB from Hampton will be a Bronco in the second or third round, he's short but fast, kinda like a young Zach Thomas was...mmm what's our new D-Coord's name?