Can you imagine any scenario in which we do not take an offensive tackle at 21?

[GonzoLays]

Offensive tackle is BY FAR the weakest position on the team. We have Matt Lepsis who just completely ripped up his knee, an undrafted NFL Europe player, a guy who was building houses for two year before he got talked out of retirement at the age of 32, and the last guy was out of the NFL last year! That's freaking terrible.

There is not one guy you can place your hopes on for playing at a competitively high level for a complete season. Adam Meadows has a bad shoulder, Matt Lepsis a bad knee and Jacob Rodgers has been injured since he has been in the league.

Since there is no value at DT in the first round, and since we already have five solid, yet unspectacular DEs (McKinley, Dumervil, Lang, Ekuban, and Engleberger) we HAVE to go OT. We have no choice. The roster dictates that we address the issue because we ignored it during free agency.

We should go OT with our first two picks and give Cutler the protection he needs. Lepsis, Pear, Meadows and Rodgers are not going to protect the franchise.

[Rascal]

Offensive tackle isn't even close to the weakest point on this team, therefore your entire argument is bonk.

Lepsis, Pears, and Meadows will fill in just fine this year. But I wouldn't mind taking one in the first day for the future. We will not start a rookie tackle.

There is plenty of value at DT/DE/S which are all positions that need to be addressed more then offensive tackle.

Outside Ekuban and Warren, there isn't a single d-lineman that would be a starter on any other team in a 4-3.

[sirhcyennek81]

Lepsis was playing at an all pro level, Pears played very well for a 1st year player. Moving him to the right side and bringing Lepsis back is protecting the franchise.


:Broncos:

[listopencil]

We addressed the OT spot to a degree just by getting rid of Foster and Meadows was the FA move that we made to shore up the position. D-Line is what we need with the first pick.

[GonzoLays]

Offensive tackle isn't even close to the weakest point on this team, therefore your entire argument is bonk.

Lepsis, Pears, and Meadows will fill in just fine this year.



Well, then. Thanks for clearing that up.

:hitself:

[bronco militia]

I'd be pissed if they go OL in the 1st round..DE, DT

[Gcver2ver3]

Can you imagine any scenario in which we do not take an offensive tackle at 21?


Huh?

[GonzoLays]

Huh?

I didn't realize the thread title was that hard to comprehend. :giggle:

[Bladerunner]

Draft position (or lack thereof), past employment and other such stuff have no bearing on the quality of the position for the team. The quality (and health, as you rightly listed) of the players on the field is what matters. That being said, I think that OT is the 2nd biggest need after DE. The Broncos have plenty of young depth on the O-line in general, and I'm not sure that an OT taken at #21 will answer the teams needs, especially since Denver can usually wait for their OL guys until later because few other teams want them.

So I can think of a few situations where we don't take OT at #21.

[16-JakE-16]

Can you imagine any scenario in which we do not take an offensive tackle at 21?

Uhhhhhhh, yeah. One where we actually get a pass rushing linemen who actually generates pressure unlike the other scrubs on the roster. Thus, the team will finally have a legitimate shot at beating the Colts or any other high-powered offense.

[GonzoLays]

I don't know if you guys have noticed, but our offensive tackles are freaking terrible! Remember, George Foster started over Pears and Meadows last season. Pears only got some PT because Lepsis went down.

When George Foster was your second best OT, you got major problems.

Broncos go OT in round one. BOOK IT!!! Nostragonzomus

[Rascal]

Well, then. Thanks for clearing that up.

:hitself:

No problem.

[TheDave]

Unless we move up into the early part of the draft i doubt very much we will take an OT in the 1st. All the value @ #21 is at WR, DE, and Safety. Look for one of those positions to be picked if we stay put.

[fontaine]

Apart from QB/LB/WR (since Willis won't last till 21) let's just take the BEST available player.

That way nobody is happy and Garcia chucks his PC out of the window!
;D

[Carmelo15]

I'd rather we go defense with our first two picks. Then pick up a guy like Doug Free in the 3rd round

[GonzoLays]

Apart from QB/LB/WR (since Willis won't last till 21) let's just take the BEST available player.



So if Brady Quinn starts a free fall ala Aaron Rodgers of a couple of years ago, you take him at 21? Interesting.

[Rascal]

So if Brady Quinn starts a free fall ala Aaron Rodgers of a couple of years ago, you take him at 21? Interesting.

What part of "apart from QB/LB/WR" do you not understand?

[bronco militia]

So if Brady Quinn starts a free fall ala Aaron Rodgers of a couple of years ago, you take him at 21? Interesting.

sure he can rot on the bench and hope someone trades a us two future #2's and switch places in the 1st round :oyvey:

[Jens1893]

The only OTs worthy of getting taken 21 overall are Levi Brown and Joe Thomas and they will both be long gone then. If we reach for a guy like Staley I will go into full meltdown mode and I won´t be the only one. I´d much rather take a guy like James Marten or Doug Free with one of the third rounders.

If we truly want and need a tackle, wait another year and try to make a push for Sam Baker or Jake Long in 2008.

[GonzoLays]

I don't really see how Jarvis Moss with his 7.5 sacks solves our pass rushing problems. You call that value? I call that a sucker pick.

[GonzoLays]

What part of "apart from QB/LB/WR" do you not understand?

Gotcha. No you can die happy. :D

[Dagmar]

Ah, Gonzo, http://www.searchamateur.com/pictures/pen-fishing-rod-250.jpg as usual.

[GonzoLays]

And where is this supposed value for late first round DEs and DTs? I don't see it. Unless a guy like Adam Carriker drops, you OT instead of reaching from some scub DE with 7 sacks.

[Requiem]

Gonzo, the only way I can see us taking a OT in the first-round is if Staley is at #21 and all defensive line prospects worthy of that selection are gone. I think you'll see Denver draft a guy like James Marten, Doug Free or Ryan Harris between picks #56, #70 or #86. I too think it's a BIG need on the team, but the value really isn't there in round one - at least where we're at.

[GonzoLays]

Joe Staley, come on down brotha! Welcome to the Broncos!!

[Rascal]

And where is this supposed value for late first round DEs and DTs? I don't see it. Unless a guy like Adam Carriker drops, you OT instead of reaching from some scub DE with 7 sacks.

For one i don't want Moss.

I want Spencer or Griffith based on how most mocks are going. If neither are available, that means somebody else dropped and we can take them. Or if all goes to hell trade down somebody will want to trade up.

[Barry Ramey]

I don't really see how Jarvis Moss with his 7.5 sacks solves our pass rushing problems. You call that value? I call that a sucker pick.

Florida likes to play a lot of DL,(just like the Broncos), since they have so many good ones, so Moss was hardly in the games on every down.

I am sure the Broncos will take an OT at some point, but I doubt at #21. They aren't like the Chiefs who will probably have to take one with their top pick since they have nothing at that spot.

[bendog]

It's very likely that only Thomas and Jones go in the first round. Ugoh may be rated higher than either Harris or Staley, so if shanny wants a rook T in the top five of this class to put on the inactive list (barring catastrophe) he can look to getting another second or high third pick.

[GonzoLays]

let's try this again:

Try to keep up, Rascal already called me out on it.

But why don't you have a cookie too. I know how excited you are over it.

[Hoosier Bronco]

Since we have been trying to find a DE who can rush the passer consistently since Simon Fletcher retired, I hope we take the best available one at #21. With his pass rush/run stop abilities, I am hopeful that Adam Carriker falls to us.

[fontaine]

Try to keep up, Rascal already called me out on it.

But why don't you have a cookie too. I know how excited you are over it.

Relax man, I didn't see your response later, so I've deleted my post.

I'm not disagreeing with you, all I'm saying is that I'd like to take the best player available (apart from the ones I stated) and if OL is among them so be it.

We don't expect our rookie OL to play right off the bat though, so you'll have to be content with Lepsis/Meadows/Pears at least for one year however the draft shakes out.

[GonzoLays]

Come on now, guys, don't you know Shanahan already addressed the DL issues? We signed Mckinley and traded for Wilkinson. Classic Shanahan. DL problems? Go get some vets. Problem solved.

All those who are desperately praying for DL in the first round is going to be sorely disappointed.

[Requiem]

I'd actually like Staley at #21. People keep saying how horrendously he got beat in the Super Bowl, but I hope a lot of them know about the stupid stuff defenses can and can't do during that. Probably just a missed assignment. They had a lot of information that week and learned a lot of things. Staley could probably start at RT right away, and take over for Lepsis in a year or two.

[GonzoLays]

We don't expect our rookie OL to play right off the bat though, so you'll have to be content with Lepsis/Meadows/Pears at least for one year however the draft shakes out.

True, but with their troubling history of injuries and the fact that Lepsis is coming off major knee surgery at age 33, we have nothing to close to a sure bet at the OT position. Of this there is no doubt.

[GonzoLays]

Also, if Erick Pears can start nearly 10 games for us an undrafted FA who was on the practice squad for one year, then you know there is a strong possibility that a 1st round rookie could secure the starting position in training camp.

Unless all you fellas believe that Erick Pears is the solution, then you must go OT in the first round.

[Requiem]

It's a first-day must Gonzo, but it's unlikely Staley will be there to consider. Gotta look at the value bud.

[ludo21]

if by some fat chance Levi Brown dops to 21, then yes, we go OT.

if not, then no way, this draft is plenty deep.

[fontaine]

True, but with their troubling history of injuries and the fact that Lepsis is coming off major knee surgery at age 33, we have nothing to close to a sure bet at the OT position. Of this there is no doubt.

Personally, I think you are right on that the team is concerned over the pass protection.

Shanahan didn't just make Graham the highest paid TE so he could catch the ball. His blocking up front will be instrumental if we have OT troubles. THAT'S why Graham was paid big bucks. Ditto for Henry. With a workhorse running back, it'll be harder to put pressure on Cutler directly. With these moves and Pears at RT I think we should be ok.

But give Cutler some credit. He's a tough kid and took his hard knocks in Vandy so he's a big boy. He can handle it.

[Jens1893]

Also, if Erick Pears can start nearly 10 games for us an undrafted FA who was on the practice squad for one year, then you know there is a strong possibility that a 1st round rookie could secure the starting position in training camp.

Unless all you fellas believe that Erick Pears is the solution, then you must go OT in the first round.

Where they were drafted means nothing ... Lepsis was an UDFA, Nalen a 7th rounder, Carlisle a 4th rounder, Hamilton a 4th rounder etc.

[fontaine]

Where they were drafted means nothing ... Lepsis was an UDFA, Nalen a 7th rounder, Carlisle a 4th rounder, Hamilton a 4th rounder etc.

For Centers/Guards yes, but most of the stud tackles in the league were blue chip prospects.

Lepsis is the exception. Of course you can stick in any old 7th rounder at tackle and get your QB killed like we almost did with Teague and then Salaam.

Those were dark days. I remember the team forcing a center to LT in Teague and when that failed miserabley they got the guy drafted right after Teague in the 7th round in Salaam and he sucked as well.

Hopefully Pears can lock down his natural position at RT.

[Taco John]

Can you imagine any scenario in which we do not take an offensive tackle at 21?


Hilarious!
Yeah, uh, here's the scenario:

Shanahan decides to draft a D-lineman, safety, or some other position.

[GonzoLays]

Can you imagine any scenario in which we do not take an offensive tackle at 21?


Hilarious!
Yeah, uh, here's the scenario:

Shanahan decides to draft a D-lineman, safety, or some other position.

Wow, how clever of you. You must be proud of yourself.

[GonzoLays]

It's a first-day must Gonzo, but it's unlikely Staley will be there to consider. Gotta look at the value bud.

But where is the value? It certainly isn't at DE or DT at 21.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

I'd actually like Staley at #21. People keep saying how horrendously he got beat in the Super Bowl, but I hope a lot of them know about the stupid stuff defenses can and can't do during that. Probably just a missed assignment. They had a lot of information that week and learned a lot of things. Staley could probably start at RT right away, and take over for Lepsis in a year or two.

Staley handled Branch and Woodley in their game against UM. He did the same against Boston College then dominated in the MAC. The Senior Bowl was an aberation. He's not who I would want at 21, but I would only have a minor breakdown. I would rather get Marten in 2 or 3. He his much bigger and can be one mean MF. Free would be in the mix in those rounds too.

[cutthemdown]

Nope this poster is right. Tackle is a weak spot on the oline. For sure I think Denver takes a offensive tackle on day one of the draft.

[Drek]

We need OT depth, not a first round OT.

Pears has developed into a great fit for our system, Lepsis is already back working out and Greek said about a month ago that he seemed fine working out. Obviously they can't be sure until he goes full speed against real competition but he's showing every sign to be 100% the player he was pre-injury.

The line will be solid next year, Foster fell apart on us, the coaching staff tried to give him a few games to get it together but by then Lepsis was out with his injury and Meadows was still struggling to get back, thats the only reason Foster stayed on the field.

I don't think the coaches expected Pears to step up his game when Lepsis went down, thats why they turned to Kuper with Carlisle moving outside first, but Pears proved he's got what it takes to start in the NFL and we never saw Kuper given a second shot to get on the field. Meadows never took Pears place when he got healthy either, just Foster's.

The staff likes Pears, he's penciled in at starting RT, the same with Lepsis at LT. The only OL spot left open to competition is RG where we already have three legitimate candidates, Kuper, Holland, and Myers. I'm all for drafting an OT to provide depth who could then pressure Pears in '08 and replace Lepsis in '09 or '10, but we can get that guy in the 2nd or 3rd round if not later.

We should be focused on adding a DL or S in the first round, barring that get a WR because Marshall is a whole lot less proven than Pears is, while Rod's medical and age concerns are more pressing than Lepsis'.

[GonzoLays]

We need OT depth, not a first round OT.



I don't see how you can say that.

For some odd reason, people are fawning over Pears like he was the truth at the OT position. Alvin Mckinley, our brand spanking new DE, got one sack last year and it was against Erik Pears. That's all you need now. Erik Pears makes superstars out of scrubs.

I, personally, do not want to see Cutler running for his life every time he drops back to pass like Plummer had to last season. Pass protection starts with OTs and our OTs suck at pass blocking. Even when Lepsis was in there, he was getting abused. And to think that Lepsis can come back strong after tearing his ACL for the second time at 33 years old is quite optimistic of you.

We have zero depth at OT, and dare I say it, not one guy who could possibly start for another team in the NFL next year.

[Beantown Bronco]

So you're saying that every good starting OT in the NFL was a first rounder?

[Beantown Bronco]

But where is the value? It certainly isn't at DE or DT at 21.

It could be. You don't know. Value can be at ANY position if there is a run on some other positions and a player or two falls through the cracks.

[GonzoLays]

Where is Taco John at when you need some OT clarity?

Why in the world does anyone believe Meadows is better than Foster? Are the coaches just Foster-homers or something? They're just going to start Foster, even though Meadows is better than him?

ha!

[TheChamp24]

I don't see how you can say that.

For some odd reason, people are fawning over Pears like he was the truth at the OT position. Alvin Mckinley, our brand spanking new DE, got one sack last year and it was against Erik Pears. That's all you need now. Erik Pears makes superstars out of scrubs.

I, personally, do not want to see Cutler running for his life every time he drops back to pass like Plummer had to last season. Pass protection starts with OTs and our OTs suck at pass blocking. Even when Lepsis was in there, he was getting abused. And to think that Lepsis can come back strong after tearing his ACL for the second time at 33 years old is quite optimistic of you.

We have zero depth at OT, and dare I say it, not one guy who could possibly start for another team in the NFL next year.

I guess we are doomed then, and will be rebuilding for a couple years. Top 10 pick here we come if we don't have an OT who could start for another team...

Seriously, there is ZERO point in taking any OT in the 1st besides Thomas or Jones. There is better value in the 2nd/3rd.
Also, DE or S would be better value wise IMO. I imagine either Michael Griffen or Reggie Nelson will be there at pick 21, and I would rather have either one than Staley or Ugoh.

[BroncoBuff]

I'm in the middle of Rascal and Gonzo ... if Lepsis is 100%, I'm with Rascal, and we're fine at OT. But if Lepsis is anything less than that, we could be in trouble.

Problem is, Joe Thomas and Levi Brown won't be there at 21 ... and Staley would be a reach there.

[BroncoBuff]

Mckinley, our brand spanking new DE, got one sack last year and it was against Erik Pears. That's all you need now.

Not fair. Pears was thrust into the Browns game when Lepsis went down - it was his first-ever NFL action. Judging him on that game is not fair.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Staley would be a reach there, but these are the Broncos and they are used to reaching. It wouldn't shock me if they took a tackle in round one, but its certainly not a foregone conclusion. I'm sure none of us watched every snap Pears took on film this season, so we do not know his true value, but you didn't see the front office attempt to break the bank for tackle help in free agency (like they've tried to do in the past...Todd Stuessie, Flozell Adams come to mind), so that leads me to believe they are content for the moment. But yes, it wouldnt surprise me to see a tackle taken early.

[GonzoLays]

I guess we are doomed then, and will be rebuilding for a couple years. Top 10 pick here we come if we don't have an OT who could start for another team...

Seriously, there is ZERO point in taking any OT in the 1st besides Thomas or Jones. There is better value in the 2nd/3rd.
Also, DE or S would be better value wise IMO. I imagine either Michael Griffen or Reggie Nelson will be there at pick 21, and I would rather have either one than Staley or Ugoh.


Why are people so enamored with safeties? they have the least amount of impact of any defensive player in the game. Half the time, they are not involved in the play whatsover. They just peddle backwards not covering or tackling anyone. They are the last line of defense.

Are safeties important? Yes? But so are punters. You could probably sign the best safety in the game for what it what cost you sign an average DE or WR.

Always go with the money positions in the first round. In today's game, you almost have to.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

And so he gave up a sack to McKinley, wow, he must be the worst of all time..come on.

[Kaylore]

We never take offensive linemen early, and I'd submit we don't really need to. All our starters weren't high draft picks except for Nalen. Kuper was second day and he's going to be awesome. We are a little thin at Tackle, though, so I do think we need to throw a pick at the position, but a first round tackle would surprise me.

If we did do that, I'd suspect that Lepsis hasn't come back from surgery very well and would support that decision.

[GonzoLays]

If we did do that, I'd suspect that Lepsis hasn't come back from surgery very well and would support that decision.

In all honesty, they won't know how well Lepsis came back from surgery until training camp starts. How well does the knee hold up after practice and contact? Right now, all they know is that he can walk without crutches.

[GonzoLays]

And so he gave up a sack to McKinley, wow, he must be the worst of all time..come on.

Have you seen Alvin Mckinley play? ROFL!

[bronco militia]

Not fair. Pears was thrust into the Browns game when Lepsis went down - it was his first-ever NFL action. Judging him on that game is not fair.

bwhahaha

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Have you seen Alvin Mckinley play? ROFL!

If I recall, wasn't that McKinley sack on a miscommunication and he just walked right in. Relax. I'm sure you haven't sat down with game film and watched all of Pears's and McKinley's snaps.

[GonzoLays]

I'm in the middle of Rascal and Gonzo ... if Lepsis is 100%, I'm with Rascal, and we're fine at OT. But if Lepsis is anything less than that, we could be in trouble.

Problem is, Joe Thomas and Levi Brown won't be there at 21 ... and Staley would be a reach there.

But Lepsis is 33 years old coming off major invasive knee surgery. How good can he possibly be when he didn't even look that good last year?

OT is without a doubt, the weakest position on the team.

[Beantown Bronco]

Why are people so enamored with safeties? they have the least amount of impact of any defensive player in the game. Half the time, they are not involved in the play whatsover.


Using that logic....Champ Bailey is the most useless player on the field because he goes entire games without being thrown at.

[NFLBRONCO]

I'd still put DE DT S way ahead of OT at 21. It would definately fuel the fire about us being afraid to draft DL in round 1. If we use high pick on OT I won't cry.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Where's your evidence that Lepsis was a liability pre-injury?

[GonzoLays]

If I recall, wasn't that McKinley sack on a miscommunication and he just walked right in. Relax. I'm sure you haven't sat down with game film and watched all of Pears's and McKinley's snaps.

No, I remember the play exactly. I actually wrote a post about it when it happened. Mckinley juked Pears like a PF would going to the basket to slam the ball in. Mckinley faked him a couple of times and ran right past Pears (one on one I might add) and he didn't even lay a hand on him.

[GonzoLays]

Using that logic....Champ Bailey is the most useless player on the field because he goes entire games without being thrown at.

Thanks for selectively taking out parts of my quote to fit your agenda. Good for you.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

No, I remember the play exactly. I actually wrote a post about it when it happened. Mckinley juked Pears like a PF would going to the basket to slam the ball in. Mckinley faked him a couple of times and ran right past Pears (one on one I might add) and he didn't even lay a hand on him.

OK, well even if your memory serves you correctly, it was Pears's first game in the NFL. He held up reasonably well, especially playing out of position (he's a right tackle by trade)

[400HZ]

I tell you what guys -

Having a 23 year old stud with tremendous upside playing left tackle for you is great. You should really try it out. 8')

[Beantown Bronco]

I tell you what guys -

Having a 23 year old stud with tremendous upside playing left tackle for you is great. You should really try it out. 8')


Just ask the Raiders.....the "can't miss prospect of all time" as he was labeled by all the pundits has proven to be a big time bust for them. And he was taken a whole lot earlier than pick 21.

[TheReverend]

Though I do agree that it's top 2 most uncertain positions on the team right now, they're going to draft DE/S/WR in the first round. Shannahan has had too much success taking day 2 O-linemen. I expect a first round trade up, an impact DL, S depth and some big boys in round 3, or on the second day.

[Gcver2ver3]

I didn't realize the thread title was that hard to comprehend. :giggle:

yeah right....

you know what i'm saying.....

[-Slap-]

I'd actually like Staley at #21. People keep saying how horrendously he got beat in the Super Bowl, but I hope a lot of them know about the stupid stuff defenses can and can't do during that. Probably just a missed assignment. They had a lot of information that week and learned a lot of things. Staley could probably start at RT right away, and take over for Lepsis in a year or two.

Exactly. The defense can't blitz, so all this stupid sonofab**** had to do was block the DE right in front of him. He whiffed three separate times and made Jay Moore at least a half a million bucks.

They need to check Staley for a brain tumor or something.

[TheReverend]

Why are people so enamored with safeties? they have the least amount of impact of any defensive player in the game. Half the time, they are not involved in the play whatsover. They just peddle backwards not covering or tackling anyone. They are the last line of defense.

Are safeties important? Yes? But so are punters. You could probably sign the best safety in the game for what it what cost you sign an average DE or WR.

Always go with the money positions in the first round. In today's game, you almost have to.

Because when they are it's either 0 or 7 points.

[JCMElway]

I don't know if you guys have noticed, but our offensive tackles are freaking terrible! Remember, George Foster started over Pears and Meadows last season. Pears only got some PT because Lepsis went down.

When George Foster was your second best OT, you got major problems.

Broncos go OT in round one. BOOK IT!!! Nostragonzomus

Foster was not a starter by mid-season. He was benched in favor of Meadows. The only reason he was strarting at the end of the season was that meadows got hurt.

If we went OT with a second or third rounder I would not be upset at all. But in the first round we absolutely must take a defensive lineman. At 21 someone with decent value should fall to us. hopefully it os Carriker or Branch, but we shall see.

And if Sundquist and Shanny can move us up in the first round, so much the better.

[Drek]

I don't see how you can say that.

For some odd reason, people are fawning over Pears like he was the truth at the OT position. Alvin Mckinley, our brand spanking new DE, got one sack last year and it was against Erik Pears. That's all you need now. Erik Pears makes superstars out of scrubs.

I, personally, do not want to see Cutler running for his life every time he drops back to pass like Plummer had to last season. Pass protection starts with OTs and our OTs suck at pass blocking. Even when Lepsis was in there, he was getting abused. And to think that Lepsis can come back strong after tearing his ACL for the second time at 33 years old is quite optimistic of you.

We have zero depth at OT, and dare I say it, not one guy who could possibly start for another team in the NFL next year.

Oh damn, you got me. Pears gave up a sack in his first ever NFL game to a guy Scouts Inc. ranks as a solid starter (i.e. not a scrub). Who cares that he then played solid the rest of the season out of position, he's clearly not NFL capable.

And Lepsis is starting at LT next year, nothing is going to change that. We could draft Joe Thomas but unless Lepsis is literally dragging a dead leg around on the field he's starting at LT.

The NFL isn't a competition about building the most cap friendly team, its a competition about building the best team, period. Thats why smart teams use first round picks on the best guy they can get who can make immediate impacts on their team.

A safety would make an immediate impact on this team. Safeties are an integral part of Bates' coverage schemes, relying on man covering corners who often will need safeties to protect them over the top while also making plays.

Gonzo, its clear you're just fishing for an argument, nothing new for you. Maybe some day you'll actually have a valid take on the game of football and you'll get beyond posting for shock value, but until then your posts are all junk.

[SureShot]

How could any Bronco fan discount the value of the safety position?

If TD doesn't score 3 tds in the Superbowl I would say that Atwater was the MVP of that game.

[-Slap-]

How could any Bronco fan discount the value of the safety position?

If TD doesn't score 3 tds in the Superbowl I would say that Atwater was the MVP of that game.

He was probably MVP anyway. That was as fine an individual defensive performance as ever seen in a Super Bowl.

[BroncoBuff]

Lepsis is already back working out .... he's showing every sign to be 100% the player he was pre-injury.

This is such a key point. I sure hope this is not overstatement by Greek.

[GonzoLays]

How could any Bronco fan discount the value of the safety position?

If TD doesn't score 3 tds in the Superbowl I would say that Atwater was the MVP of that game.


Breakdown the importance of defenders:

DE
DT
DT
DE
WLB
MLB
SLB
FS
SS
LCB
RCB

How would you rank these positions in importance to a defense? Be honest.

If you rank FS and SS higher than 10th and 11th, you are lying. There is a reason safety is the lowest paid position on defense and it ain't because they don't like money.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Team game Gonzo. Everyone is as important as the next.

[elsid13]

Why draft someone in the 1st that isn't going to see the field next season???. Shanahan hates playing rookie linemen and isn't going let his QB get killed by rookie lack of experience.

Denver will take OT but it won't be til the late 3rd or 5 round.

[TheReverend]

Breakdown the importance of defenders:

DE
DT
DT
DE
WLB
MLB
SLB
FS
SS
LCB
RCB

How would you rank these positions in importance to a defense? Be honest.

If you rank FS and SS higher than 10th and 11th, you are lying. There is a reason safety is the lowest paid position on defense and it ain't because they don't like money.

Oooh this is fun

LCB
Stud DE
Will LB
RCB
FS
Mike LB
Whip DE
SS
DTx2
Sam LB

Naturally that varies with systems... any form of the cover two is going to sky rocket the DTs and MLBs importance and devalue the corners, equating or even dropping them below the safeties.

Regardless, Sam backer is nearly completely out of vogue, especially in the new days of 3 receiver sets. Might as well drop a bulked up corner in there that can match up with TEs

[TheReverend]

Team game Gonzo. Everyone is as important as the next.

I agree everyone is important, but I think "as the next" is a hell of a stretch.

[phisig150]

Offensive tackle is BY FAR the weakest position on the team. We have Matt Lepsis who just completely ripped up his knee, an undrafted NFL Europe player, a guy who was building houses for two year before he got talked out of retirement at the age of 32, and the last guy was out of the NFL last year! That's freaking terrible.

There is not one guy you can place your hopes on for playing at a competitively high level for a complete season. Adam Meadows has a bad shoulder, Matt Lepsis a bad knee and Jacob Rodgers has been injured since he has been in the league.

Since there is no value at DT in the first round, and since we already have five solid, yet unspectacular DEs (McKinley, Dumervil, Lang, Ekuban, and Engleberger) we HAVE to go OT. We have no choice. The roster dictates that we address the issue because we ignored it during free agency.

We should go OT with our first two picks and give Cutler the protection he needs. Lepsis, Pear, Meadows and Rodgers are not going to protect the franchise.

I can imagine three for you De, S, WR.

[Cito Pelon]

An OT or two on day one is fine with me. The team needs improvement on both lines, but that may be what needs the most attention.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Wow...I've been harping on this for a month, even posting info on Lepsis surgical procedure and the possibility he can't come back. Finally somebody on this board agrees with me...I just wish it wasn't Gonzo. ;D

All the DE's llikely to be available at 21 in this draft are probably no better than what we already have. If we wanted to go with a DT, Branch has a slight chance of falling but I doubt it and Okoye stands to be long gone. Unless we are moving up to get Gaines Adams, Jamal Anderson or possibly Carriker, we'll simply be duplicating what we already have. My first option is to move up high enough...maybe to 10...to get Levi Brown. This team needs a big, physical, nasty SOB who can smash people in the face in the run game and seal off the back side like the Great Wall of China. Our OT's can collectively be described as either 1) older, 2) medical question marks 3) both of the above, or 4) unproven...not what you want protecting your 15 year investment at the QB spot.

[GonzoLays]

Adam Schefter reported today:

If the Broncos were to snag the No. 2 overall pick, they likely would be targeting left tackle Joe Thomas, another Schaffer client.

Ain't that a bitch? We are targeting an offensive lineman with our first round pick.

Word.

Good looking out, Gonzo.

[GonzoLays]

Wow...I've been harping on this for a month, even posting info on Lepsis surgical procedure and the possibility he can't come back. Finally somebody on this board agrees with me...I just wish it wasn't Gonzo. ;D

All the DE's llikely to be available at 21 in this draft are probably no better than what we already have. If we wanted to go with a DT, Branch has a slight chance of falling but I doubt it and Okoye stands to be long gone. Unless we are moving up to get Gaines Adams, Jamal Anderson or possibly Carriker, we'll simply be duplicating what we already have. My first option is to move up high enough...maybe to 10...to get Levi Brown. This team needs a big, physical, nasty SOB who can smash people in the face in the run game and seal off the back side like the Great Wall of China. Our OT's can collectively be described as either 1) older, 2) medical question marks 3) both of the above, or 4) unproven...not what you want protecting your 15 year investment at the QB spot.

I don't care what they say about you, footstepsfrom#27, you are okay with me. ;D

[Dedhed]

So if Brady Quinn starts a free fall ala Aaron Rodgers of a couple of years ago, you take him at 21? Interesting.
No, in that scenario we would reach on a mid 2nd round talent at OT. NO MATTER WHO IS ON THE BOARD.

[GonzoLays]

what were you saying again, drek?

And Lepsis is starting at LT next year, nothing is going to change that. We could draft Joe Thomas but unless Lepsis is literally dragging a dead leg around on the field he's starting at LT.

AHEM!

If the Broncos were to snag the No. 2 overall pick, they likely would be targeting left tackle Joe Thomas, another Schaffer client.

Aint that a bitch, Drek?! Since JT is a LT, they are going to let him ride the bench because as we all know, barring a dead leg, Matt Lepsis is the starting LT.

Stupid Shanny, spend all that money on Joe Thomas and watch him ride the bench. Tiss tiss tiss

[Kaylore]

I bet Calvin Johnson is higher up on their board.

[SureShot]

I bet Calvin Johnson is higher up on their board.

I agree.

I doubt the Broncos would want Shefter to announce who they covet with the #2 if/when they get it.

No need to tip their hand to the Fade.

[GonzoLays]

I bet Calvin Johnson is higher up on their board.

uhhhh, okay.

[GonzoLays]

I agree.

I doubt the Broncos would want Shefter to announce who they covet with the #2 if/when they get it.

No need to tip their hand to the Fade.

Why does everyone just assume that Shefter is Shanny's servile follower who will disseminate his master's tidings without thorough legwork to support what he is saying? Some of you people act like Shanny calls Shefter on the bat phone and tells him to release all this devious, underhanded, completely false information so Shanahan can have some sort of leg up on the rest of the competition. you people can't be serious.

[Kaylore]

Shanahan leaks a bunch of disinformation on who they want to draft. He visits with and interviews a bunch of players to send out the wrong signals and then drafts someone else. If you weren't too busy masturbating your ego, you'd have realized this by now.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Johnson would have to be higher on Shanny's board since he thinks the UFA route is where you find your starting LT, but he did draft Foster and Georgina never fit this system so *possibly* he might be drooling over Thomas. I'd turn cartwheels over either one but I think Levi Brown will be as good or better than Thomas in two years.

[Cito Pelon]

I have to agree w/people that say get the BAP among a range of positions at 21, don't reach for an OT at 21. That range of positions I would say right now are LB, S, DT, DE, WR, OT. For sure, though, I think the team better be looking real hard at getting at least one of the top five OT's, two would be even better.

I'm not sold on Pears, Meadows. Hell, it's important to protect Cutler. It's important to overprotect him. It took only 3 games for Meadows to get a hammy, Pears had to have TE help all the time, Lepsis has had some holes drilled in his knee.

Also, I remember a lot of pressure coming up the middle over Hamilton, Nalen and Carlisle. They had a hard time holding their ground about 50% of the time. That OL needs some work. Maybe the OG trbls have been addressed already, but I'd like to see some better OT's on the roster.

[ZONA]

So if Brady Quinn starts a free fall ala Aaron Rodgers of a couple of years ago, you take him at 21? Interesting.

You're a clown. You know damn well he didn't mean take a QB. Just face it, nobody agrees we should waste #21 on a tackle. You're the only one. Who would you have us pick at at 21? Which tackle? Please, I'd like to know. You don't even know yourself. That's because there's no OT to take at 21 that will fall that far or anybody we want to pick before rounds 2 or 3.

[Atwater His Ass]

Shanahan leaks a bunch of disinformation on who they want to draft. He visits with and interviews a bunch of players to send out the wrong signals and then drafts someone else. If you weren't too busy masturbating your ego, you'd have realized this by now.

But you forgot one thing Kaylore. That would make Gonzo wrong. How dare you!

[footstepsfrom#27]

You're a clown. You know damn well he didn't mean take a QB. Just face it, nobody agrees we should waste #21 on a tackle. You're the only one. Who would you have us pick at at 21? Which tackle? Please, I'd like to know. You don't even know yourself. That's because there's no OT to take at 21 that will fall that far or anybody we want to pick before rounds 2 or 3.
No he's not...back up a few posts...and he makes a good argument. I've been saying for weeks on this board that OT is our most precarious position, especially given the fact that all our eggs are basically riding in the basket called Jay Cutler. If you look at how important the OT position is, how old our starters are, the medical risks associated with the surgery that Lepsis had, the fact that Meadows is a journeyman who has already retired once, and the fact that we have a UFA guy with 8 whole games of actual experience in the NFL who struggled a lot last year and is only starting because Foster took a massive dump, then it becomes obvious that the position is one of need. I'll go further...we have one of the NFL's worst group of offensive tackles if Lepsis can't return to 100% of what he was.

Further look at the fact that after the first 3 defensive ends (Anderson, Gaines and Carariker), the rest of the DE's that will be taken in the first round of this draft are probably actually 2nd rounders in most other drafts. People forget that last year when we traded a pick to Atlanta for the 2007 draft, it was noted that this made sense because the '07 draft was considered a weak one. Anybody we get on the DL at #21 may not be any better than what we already have. I don't advocate an OT at #21...I want to move up for Levi Brown which probably means getting to #9 or so. But there is a possibility that Joe Staley might be a good fit for Denver if we sit pat at #21 also. Kiper currently has him ranked #21 overall and his workouts were apparently phenomenal. I haven't seen him play, except for his wheels off Senior Bowl which soured me on him, but it's also a mistake to put complete emphasis on a single game, expecially that one, when trying to evaluate a player. Denver wants athleticism in it's O-line guys and he fits the bill to a T so he might be a better pick than somebody like Jarvis Moss for example.

[GonzoLays]

ahem....

[GonzoLays]

Where you at Joe Staley? Can you see us? You got your Bronco cap ready, bud?

[GonzoLays]

Jarvis Moss?? What the hell!!!!!!!!!

[MadCity]

THE GREAT GONZOLAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:rofl:

[CBF1]

Gonzo the ass clown stirkes again :)

[Atwater His Ass]

roflcopter

[TheReverend]

Though I do agree that it's top 2 most uncertain positions on the team right now, they're going to draft DE/S/WR in the first round. Shannahan has had too much success taking day 2 O-linemen. I expect a first round trade up, an impact DL, S depth and some big boys in round 3, or on the second day.

Aside from the call on the safety depth, you're a ****ing genius.

[TheReverend]

Gonzo was also right... Staley played VERY well last year and it will take a great year from Jarvis to prove himself the "right pick"

[CHANGSTER]

At 1st I was thinking Wtf, 21? I think I'm dyslexic.

Pretty nuts how most of us thought OT was set last year, such optimism.

[Killericon]

Noone saw Lepsis' retirement coming. Simple as that.

Even with it though, I'm still pissed we didn't take Alan Branch.

[TheReverend]

Noone saw Lepsis' retirement coming. Simple as that.

Even with it though, I'm still pissed we didn't take Alan Branch.

Matt retiring was a personnel upgrade. He played like **** last year. Simple as that.

[Killericon]

Matt retiring was a personnel upgrade. He played like **** last year. Simple as that.

Yeah, but noone saw THAT coming, either.

[TheReverend]

Yeah, but noone saw THAT coming, either.

Read through the thread (or **** it, just glance up at the title) and you'll see there were people who saw that coming actually...

[Killericon]

Read through the thread (or **** it, just glance up at the title) and you'll see there were people who saw that coming actually...

In the opener, Gonzo doesn't give THAT impressions, but I'll concede the point. My bad.

I still think we should've taken Branch.

[Broncojef]

Read through the thread (or **** it, just glance up at the title) and you'll see there were people who saw that coming actually...

Very interesting read....the one constant is some of us have been waiting for our OTs for a long time. Lepsis didn't just play badly JUST last year. He was never a Pro-Bowl candidate IMO and played quite possibly his worst game against the Steelers in the AFC Championship game when it mattered most. His play last year caused me to turn off the TV numerous times. At some point the team may catch a clue and get some DT/OTs of importance, until then we won't compete.