Sadistic foster mother's 19-year reign of terror

[Ratboy]

A foster mother was found guilty today of subjecting three young children to a "horrifying catalogue of cruel and sadistic treatment".

Eunice Spry, 62, routinely beat, abused and starved the youngsters in her care over a 19 year period. The devout Jehovah's Witness forced sticks down their throats and made them eat their own vomit and rat excrement.


Click here for more information (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23389711-details/Sadistic+foster+mother's+19-year+reign+of+terror/article.do)

[Ratboy]

Disturbing stuff.

[Garcia Bronco]

the first clue was her name...Eunice

[Kaylore]

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/03_02/MUM200307_228x314.jpg

Sexy.

[GonzoLays]

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/03_02/MUM200307_228x314.jpg


Can't say that I am shocked

[broncocalijohn]

Mother of the year? Glad to see the system was on top of things. These kids werent adopted so Children's Agency group should have been checking her house every six months minimum. In Florida, there are some kids that they dont even know where they currently are located. Government at your service.

[alkemical]

Hopefully the kids won't revert to using said methods on their own children one day.

Nothing is more cruel than a human being.

[Garcia Bronco]

Hopefully the kids won't revert to using said methods on their own children one day.

Nothing is more cruel than a human being.

What about a tornado? They're very cruel.

[alkemical]

What about a tornado? They're very cruel.

I didn't know of a tornado purposley holding someone down on an electric stove burner for ****s and giggles.

Now your post and the tornado have alot more in common....

[Garcia Bronco]

I didn't know of a tornado purposley holding someone down on an electric stove burner for ****s and giggles.

Now your post and the tornado have alot more in common....

We are trying to quantify cruelty because you said nothing is more cruel than a human being....I disagree. The reasoning behind said actions are irrelevant.

[broncocalijohn]

Hopefully the kids won't revert to using said methods on their own children one day.

Nothing is more cruel than a human being.

Nothing is more loving than a human being. Why would you want to look at the negative instead of positive? Seems you might of had a ruff upbringing also.

[RaiderH8r]

Global Warming made her do it.

[PatsWin2002]

Extremely disturbing. Those children should have been required to have regular medical visits as part of the foster care program.

After reading this, I'm thinking that home schooling should not be allowed for foster children. It gave this woman 100% control and the isolation needed to be that evil without being discovered.

Man, that pisses me off.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Mother of the year? Glad to see the system was on top of things. These kids werent adopted so Children's Agency group should have been checking her house every six months minimum. In Florida, there are some kids that they dont even know where they currently are located. Government at your service.

That's true. The Social Services agencies are supposed to be checking on foster kids. Raising foster kids is tough duty. My sister did is for a few years. They were mostly kids born to drug addicted mothers who were born addicts. My sister had weekly visits from social services.

[alkemical]

We are trying to quantify cruelty because you said nothing is more cruel than a human being....I disagree. The reasoning behind said actions are irrelevant.

as far as you or I can tell -

Does a tornado knowingly torture someone for ****s and giggles?

You'll have to try harder than that.

[alkemical]

Nothing is more loving than a human being. Why would you want to look at the negative instead of positive? Seems you might of had a ruff upbringing also.



Until you've run into the dark heart of man, you won't understand. Considering this "mom" did this out of wilfull intent - i still stand upon my comments.

[broncosteven]

I was almost brought to tears when I read the below yesterday. I looked at my 4 year old & have no idea how this Woman could have done such things to any child yet alone her own.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-0703210108mar21,1,5176113.column?coll=chi-newslocalchicago-hed

Family secrets buried under weight of shame


Published March 21, 2007


There are secrets in the house.

The line sounds like a voiceover for a horror movie promo or the teaser on the cover of a crime novel. But the way it read in Tuesday's Tribune was a thousand times more chilling.

The case is familiar by now: Mila Petrov, 29, is charged with killing her daughter, Melanie Beltran, age 5. It was the culminating brutality of Melanie's short life.

"There are secrets in the house," one of Melanie's six siblings was quoted as telling child welfare workers. "We don't tell."

Melanie's body told. Bruised, scarred, burned. The descriptions of that little girl in her moment of death are so grotesque, so heartbreaking and infuriating, they make you wish you didn't know.

There's a lot in the story of what allegedly happened to Melanie Beltran to leave the ordinary person stunned by what human beings are capable of doing.

And one of the stunning, if not exactly surprising, things is that we can do awful things within a family--within our first circle of love--and do those things under a family code that says: Don't tell.

The magnitude of the secret in Melanie's house may be extreme but there's nothing unusual about families hiding terrible troubles from the world outside the front door.

That's one reason the reported remark by Melanie's sibling is so powerful. We may not ourselves have experienced such horrific violence, but a lot of us recognize the wider truth about dark family secrets.

Alcohol abuse, drug abuse, incest, battery, financial ruin, psychological terrorism. Don't tell. Don't tell because you might hurt someone you love. Don't tell because telling might hurt you.

The other night, unrelated to this case, I was talking with a friend about the secrets we kept in our own houses as children and the ones that only as adults did we discover had festered in the homes of kids we thought we knew.

She was shocked and a little relieved, she said, to learn that families she had thought of as ideal, families she had envied and whose perfection humiliated her, were hiding their own shame.

Another reason not to tell: You imagine that no one else would understand. No other family is as failed as yours. Your family is alone.

But even to people who have held family secrets, it may seem strange that children can hoard them so well.

"Children can be incredibly loyal to their parents, even when they themselves have been abused," says Froma Walsh, a professor of clinical social work at the University of Chicago.

"Partly it's the fear that they could lose that parent if the secret came out. Even when the parent has been abusive, the fear of loss can be traumatic. When they've witnessed abuse, there's also the fear that the abuse could turn on them as well."

She revised. Not fear. The better word is terror.

Witnessing what happened to Melanie, and keeping it secret, must have damaged every child in her home.

Families are ecosystems. Each life grows in response to the lives around it. Fertilized by secrecy, behavior that the world considers aberrant can come to seem normal. Within the family, it is normal.

"Everyone hit Melanie because she touched our things," one of her siblings told a state worker.

Bad behavior compounds bad behavior. The secret compounds too.

Julie Spielberger, a research fellow at the Chapin Hall Center for Children, says fear and shame can keep children from telling.

"If these children felt threatened by abuse in the house," she says, "they might have done it to protect themselves or to feel more secure, to feel `my mother likes me better.'"

As Walsh noted, "Secrets are most dangerous and damaging and common when they're about harmful and shame-laden issues."

The terrible thing that happened to Melanie is terrible for her siblings too. But until a family secret is unlocked, the door is closed to help.

----------

mschmich@tribune.com

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-0703210108mar21,1,5176113.column?coll=chi-newslocalchicago-hed

[scorpio]

We are trying to quantify cruelty because you said nothing is more cruel than a human being....I disagree. The reasoning behind said actions are irrelevant.

Another turd of a post from Garcia.

cru·el /ˈkruəl/ Pronunciation Key - [kroo-uhl]
–adjective, -er, -est.
1. willfully or knowingly causing pain or distress to others.
2. enjoying the pain or distress of others: the cruel spectators of the gladiatorial contests.
3. causing or marked by great pain or distress: a cruel remark; a cruel affliction.
4. rigid; stern; strict; unrelentingly severe

[KipCorrington25]

Is that really her picture or rather Dana Carvey in Church Lady garb?

[Beantown Bronco]

Nothing is more loving than a human being.

I can now name at least one Maner who never owned a dog.....

[Garcia Bronco]

Another turd of a post from Garcia.

cru·el /ˈkruəl/ Pronunciation Key - [kroo-uhl]
–adjective, -er, -est.
1. willfully or knowingly causing pain or distress to others.
2. enjoying the pain or distress of others: the cruel spectators of the gladiatorial contests.
3. causing or marked by great pain or distress: a cruel remark; a cruel affliction.
4. rigid; stern; strict; unrelentingly severe

a Tornado would fit that definition.

[Garcia Bronco]

as far as you or I can tell -

Does a tornado knowingly torture someone for ****s and giggles?

.


I couldn't testify as to the thought process of a tornado....but it is much more cruel than a human being. Why do you hate other humans so much?

[spdirty]

wow...more evidence that you need to watch Jehovas Witnesses like a hawk. Told my wife this story, had her read it and she thinks it is a lie.

[RkyMtnThunder]

Nothing is more cruel than a human being.



I agree - cruelty is unique to the human condition.

[TheDave]

what an a$$hole

[broncs2bowl]

OMG this is horrible...this thing rly got to me for some reason. That b***h should be frickin executed. When those kids were like 10 they should have just revolted...she cant take on three. If I was in that situation I would got out be bad at night broked one of the legs of a table or somethin cause they are all trashed anyways....and BEATEN the hell out of that b***h while she was sleepin. I would have cracked her head open. Then I would made her eat s**t and burnt her hand on an electric stove. I would rub her face with sand paper and shove a baseball bat down her throat. Then I would have made her lick my a$$ and I would have beaten her till she was almost dead. Tooken her to the hospital and said she was tortured by someone else...rat her out in the process. Send her to jail for life in once of those boxes where you cant go anywhere and you are by yourself and you cant kill yourself because there is padding all over the walls.(just so she doesnt torture people in the Jail)

lol anyways I feel very sry for those kids being a kid myself. They should have done something though...she looks like some weak old hag. Wow this rly disturbs me

and I agree Nothing is more cruel than a human, BUT also Nothing is more loving than a human

[UKBronco]

How scary is the fact that I recognise that ****ed up bitch, and used to serve her when I worked on the Deli counter part time back in school. She was a screwed up old battle-axe back then, I never thought she was a foster parent - she was always one of those people you knew was 'wierd' and we used to dread her coming in.

Horrible horrible woman, I can only hope the rest of her life is made as miserable as possible.

[NW Bolt Fan]

I couldn't testify as to the thought process of a tornado....but it is much more cruel than a human being. Why do you hate other humans so much?
If you're giving the power of sentience to forces of nature, you must live in one ****ed up world... no, one MORE ****ed up world. To think the chair I sit on might feel ashamed because of it's role in society...

[Garcia Bronco]

If you're giving the power of sentience to forces of nature, you must live in one ****ed up world... no, one MORE ****ed up world. To think the chair I sit on might feel ashamed because of it's role in society...

In any case it's a matter of projection and perception.

[spdirty]

You guys need to read the 'Lost Boy' trilogy. It was about a guy telling the true stories of the abuse he endured as a kid, and how he was able to reverse the cycle with his kid when he became a father. The story will make you mad as hell. Not only at the mom (abuser), but also the dad, who knew what was happening, was totally against it, yet did nothing for the kid. Similar torture stories as this one, just makes me sick to my stomach as a dad.

[JCMElway]

What about a tornado? They're very cruel.

In order to be cruel you have to have some sort of intent. Tornadoes are not sentient, therefore they cannot be cruel. The damage they cause can be horrific or tragic, but I've never heard of a natural disaster being called cruel.

Perhaps you could say that fate was cruel to send a hurricane to do that much damage. Anyway, it's all semantics.

As for Eunice, I'm usually not a huge fan of executions. However, I would watch her public hanging with grim satisfaction.

[broncs2bowl]

Is the Lost Boy a novel or something or a true story

[spdirty]

Is the Lost Boy a novel or something or a true story

true story, I think it was in the early 70's when child abuse wasn't a big issue.

[iforgotmypassword]

kill her, the cheapest way possible

[Lev Vyvanse]

In order to be cruel you have to have some sort of intent. Tornadoes are not sentient, therefore they cannot be cruel. The damage they cause can be horrific or tragic, but I've never heard of a natural disaster being called cruel.

Perhaps you could say that fate was cruel to send a hurricane to do that much damage. Anyway, it's all semantics.

As for Eunice, I'm usually not a huge fan of executions. However, I would watch her public hanging with grim satisfaction.

Wait a second, then fate is sentient?

[-Slap-]

At least that pig will answer for her crimes.

Meet Chris Hashemi.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2227/6041840bg3hc6.jpg
The I-Team first encountered
Hasehmi months earlier while
working on a story about
aggressive drivers. He wasn't
pleased to be caught on camera.

I-TEAM: Photos of Child Show 'Systematic Pattern of Abuse' (http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=6041840)

George Knapp, Investigative Reporter

Feb 5, 2007 10:44 PM PST

A grand jury is expected to hear testimony this week about a child abuse investigation that has taken some strange turns. The case, first reported by the Channel 8 I-Team, involves a 3-year-old girl who nearly died of a fractured skull.

In the latest I-Team report, George Knapp tells you about some disturbing photos of the child obtained by Eyewitness News.

The photos are explicit. They show a little girl who was subjected to what investigators say was a systematic pattern of abuse. The main suspects are her mother and the mother's boyfriend. The mom and daughter are Germans who met the boyfriend on the Internet and moved to Las Vegas last year.

The case has already taken several odd twists, but law enforcement is not giving up.

She's a beautiful, doe-eyed little girl, only three years old, but who's already endured enough pain for a lifetime. In August, she was rushed to Summerlin Hospital with a fractured skull and was close to death. Emergency surgery left a long scar on her scalp but saved her life.

Her mother, Samaneh Rezai, told doctors the injury was caused by an accidental fall down a staircase. Doctors and police didn't believe it. The photos, taken by investigators, show why.

The girl had injuries literally from head to toe. Bandages covered the skull fracture but could not cover the dark bruises on her forehead, on her checks, and the abrasions on her lips and mouth. She had large ugly bruises on her arms, some new, others older and already healing. The child had more of the same on her legs, including large bruises on her thighs, others on the back of her calves.

Also on her legs were odd injuries. Police say they are bite marks, big ones, including one on her inner thigh. They also found cuts on the bottom of her feet. Her tiny hands were a mess. It appeared one of her fingernails had been ripped out and was already growing back, but there were cuts on the other fingers as well. To doctors and detectives, this seemed clear evidence of a systematic pattern of abuse.

Metro officers went to the upscale home and took more pictures. The owner is Iranian born Arash Hashemi, who uses the name Chris. The I-Team first encountered Hasehmi months earlier while working on a story about aggressive drivers. He wasn't pleased to be caught on camera.

Inside his house, police found numerous photos of Hashemi posing with boxing figures, a plaque announcing his listing in Who's Who, a likeness of mob boss John Gotti just inside his front door, nude photos Hashemi took of himself while standing in front of a mirror, and in the garage, hung one of his mottos -- winners are simply willing to do what losers won't.

What police also found in several locations was blood; blood on the staircase where the girl supposedly tripped and fell, blood spots and drips in a hallways, on the floor and on the wall, patches of blood on the floor of the master bedroom, blood on the little girl's shirt, in the laundry room, bloody towels that might have been used in a hasty cleanup.

Police felt they had more than enough to charge Hashemi with abuse and the girl's mother with neglect. In fact, they were already investigating a similar complaint made a month earlier -- same girl, same suspects.

At that time, according to a police report, Hashemi's sister told three friends that her brother had repeatedly abused the child. According to law enforcement sources, the sister has now changed her story. Police were also told Hashemi punched the girl, bit her, and cut off her hair because she used his scissors.

The mother told police her daughter seemed clumsier since arriving in the U.S. and blamed some of the injuries on Hashemi's house, which she described as a "bad house."

The mother is no longer in the country. Judge Doug Smith chastised police for holding the mother's passport during the investigation. Smith ordered the passport returned. Samaneh Rezaei was quickly deported to her native Germany and may no longer be available, either as a witness or a defendant.

The district attorney's office subsequently dropped charges against Hashemi but hoped to take the matter to a grand jury. And now, a sustained effort is underway in the courts on both sides of the Atlantic to get the little girl removed from the U.S. by returning her to her natural father, whom she does not remember ever seeing. If she were forced to leave, a case against Hashemi would be very tough to prove.

The case has been like a full employment act for the legal profession. At least four prominent Las Vegas attorneys have made appearances on behalf of Hashemi, the mother, and the girl.

There are also lawyers working in Germany for the father and the mother. Fortunately for the girl, she now has her own lawyer, Steve Hilts of Clark County Legal Services, who is trying to figure out why he is up against so much in trying to protect her.

With so much interest in one little girl, and with getting her out of the country, it's enough to make you wonder what's going on.

The grand jury process is secret. The public isn't told about who is called or what they might say. It's a very effective tool for prosecutors who might want to sidestep a particular judge while seeking an indictment.

I-Team: Judge Rules in High-Profile Child Abuse Case (http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=6152602)

George Knapp, Investigative Reporter

Feb 28, 2007 01:38 PM PST


I-TEAM: Photos of Child Show 'Systematic Pattern of Abuse'

A three-year-old girl who's been at the center of an international tug of war has been ordered to return to Germany. While in Las Vegas, the child was subjected to terrible physical abuse. Tuesday, a judge issued a ruling in her case.

It's been a sad, strange case from the very beginning and has posed two questions for Las Vegas courts. First, what's in the best interests of the 3-year-old girl? And second, is anyone going to be prosecuted for doing these horrible things to her in the first place? We now have the answer to the first, we don't know about the second.

Her name is Selena Celebi, soon to be four years old. She came to Las Vegas from Germany last year with her mother, and that's when the trouble began.

In August of 2006, police began investigating alleged abuse after Selena suffered a fractured skull and nearly died. They found she'd also had a broken arm, bite marks and bruises all over her body, had been punched in the jaw, and had her hair cut off. A systematic pattern of abuse, authorities said.

The girl's mother had moved in with wealthy Iranian businessman Chris Hashemi. The mother, Samaneh Rezai, blamed the girl's injuries on accidents and falls and a, quote, "bad house where things seemed to go wrong for some reason."

Rezai was charged with neglect. Hashemi was charged with felony child abuse. The district attorney, however, dropped those charges. Rezai was deported back to Germany.

Tuesday's hearing was to determine what would become of Selena, but Juvenile Hearing Master Frank Sullivan couldn't help but mention what she'd been through to this point. He told the court, quote, "I won't even call it abuse. The child was tortured. It's one of the worst cases I've ever seen. But my goal is to decide what is in the best interests of the child. Not to consider what the effect will be on other possible prosecution."

There were nine lawyers on hand Tuesday and nearly all of them were hoping Selena would be sent to Germany, placed into the hands of the German foster care program. What helped convince the judge this was best is that the girl's biological father arrived to say he wanted the girl. The two have spent time together over the past few days and seemed to bond.

The court held that Selena would be better off being uprooted from her Las Vegas foster family, taken to Germany in protective custody, and eventually reunited with her father. Her mother is still facing abuse charges in Germany related to what happened in Las Vegas.

The person most disappointed was Steve Hiltz, the lawyer for the girl, who wanted her to stay in Nevada for the time being. Hiltz understands the decision but now wonders what might happen to possible abuse charges against Hashemi since the victim will no longer be in the country.

"Hope the D.A. does the right thing and goes after the obvious culprit," Hiltz said.

There's a lot more to the story, such as who hired all of these lawyers, but from the I-Team's perspective, the biological father really does want his daughter, and she took to him as well. Considering what she's been through in her short life, she deserves a run of good luck.

[Spider]

I thought my childhood was rough ......... I take an ass kicking any day over what these kids went through

[Northman]

Poor old lady, she was just high strung. She never got enough love as a child.

[Tombstone RJ]

What about a tornado? They're very cruel.

Nope. Completely false statement. Tornados have no emotions, they don't think, they are not a living entity, a tornado does not know right from wrong, or good from bad.

What your doing is projecting a human trait onto a non human creation.

Actually, I don't know why I have to explain this, I guess I'm personally offended by the assinine statement you made.

[baja]

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/03_02/MUM200307_228x314.jpg

Anyone else think this women might have had the same treatment when she was growing up. The most horrible part of child abuse is it gets passed on generation to generation.

"The sins of the father shall be passed to the son"

As a side note, Garcia you are obdurate, how can you read a story like that and compare it to a tornado. God man you scare me

[alkemical]

I couldn't testify as to the thought process of a tornado....but it is much more cruel than a human being. Why do you hate other humans so much?



I don't, i just hate assholes.

Since you can't testify to the thought process of a tornado - you can't say it's willfully inflicting pain on somebody - THUS - negates the use of the fricken word of "cruel". Damn, you really did go to college in VA didn't you.

[spdirty]

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/03_02/MUM200307_228x314.jpg

Anyone else think this women might have had the same treatment when she was growing up. The most horrible part of child abuse is it gets passed on generation to generation.

"The sins of the father shall be passed to the son"

yep...hell I even find myself doing stuff with and to my kids that my dad use to do with me and my sis...It can be a good thing (in my case it is) and it can be a very bad thing, especially in instances of abuse and molestation/incest. That was a huge point made by the author of the book I recommended.

[JCMElway]

Wait a second, then fate is sentient?

Some would say so.

[alkemical]

Some would say so.

Maybe that would be the "karma" aspect of it....

[SoonerBronco]

wow...more evidence that you need to watch Jehovas Witnesses like a hawk. Told my wife this story, had her read it and she thinks it is a lie.

That is the most rediculous statement I have ever seen on this board. If you actually read the story, it was a Jehovah's Witness from this lady's congregation that turned her in. She hid it from everyone, including the Jehovah's Witnesses...it's kinda like Catholic priests hiding the fact that they bang little altar boys before mass.

Next time try not to be so shallow.

[alkemical]

Hey prince is a Jehova's Witness.....

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Hey prince is a Jehova's Witness.....

Not really.

[SoonerBronco]

Not really.

ummm...yes, he is...but thanks for playing Bob.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

ummm...yes, he is...but thanks for playing Bob.

He's a hypocrite and a JW poser. He claims to be one. Actually being one is a whole different matter.

[alkemical]

Who let you out of your cage?

[SoonerBronco]

He's a hypocrite and a JW poser. He claims to be one. Actually being one is a whole different matter.

You really have no idea what you are talking about.

AGAIN, you really need to drop it.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

You really have no idea what you are talking about.
.

Really? I went to meetings for 19 years. Yeah, I think I know better than most. Including that fraud Prince.

[ScottXray]

Nothing is more loving than a human being. Why would you want to look at the negative instead of positive? Seems you might of had a ruff upbringing also.


As far as human beings go........there ARE Human Beings, all races , all flavors of religion and upbringing...these people have love and charity in their mindsets and (assuming there IS a God (supreme being)) will go to the Good afterlife. They are common in the world, and mostly underappreciated.

Then there are human beasts....they have no charity, no love, no empathy and no morals. They enjoy torture of animals, children, and whatever else they can harm. I believe they are born without "souls", and will have no afterlife at all, or deserve the alternate destination of Humans. Maybe that is what makes them so cruel.
They deserve execution, immediately, because they commit "crimes against humanity", and do so with no thought at all. The problem is our systems of justice are unable to discern these animals from human beings, and afford them the same rights as real humans.

This is a human Beast...she should be put down.

[rugbythug]

Anybody who can do this to there child is broken. She has given up the rights to be called Human. There should be a new subclass of homosapien she would apply to. This would allow us (society) to put her down without the legal jousting associated with corporal punishment.

[baja]

Anybody who can do this to there child is broken. She has given up the rights to be called Human. There should be a new subclass of homosapien she would apply to. This would allow us (society) to put her down without the legal jousting associated with corporal punishment.

If you bothered to do a little investigating I'll bet you would find she was also a victim of similar abuses growing up.

Your Knee jerk reaction will not "fix" anything nor would it serve justice. What needs to happen is counseling for those kids so the horror will not live on to be rained down on their children.

[watermock]

I would be more than happy to adiopt one of the kids, but jumping thru hoops is another matter.

I allready have an adolecent that misbehaves...He's named Beezer...

Either that or a Serval cat.

http://http://www.sacrs.org.za/ecm21/gallery/serval-01300814b.jpg

[watermock]

Really? I went to meetings for 19 years. Yeah, I think I know better than most. Including that fraud Prince.

that's beyond comical...not because he's got 19 under his belt, but how he's back announcing something highly suspect. Does anyone else find it of Bobo managed to find 19 years of sobriety after his banishment?

[broncocalijohn]

I can now name at least one Maner who never owned a dog.....


Good to know that a dog ranks higher than a human. Yes, I have owned dogs for many years in my life. I never saw a dog give blood to the extreme when 9/11 happened. I love dogs and it is man's best friend but as much as my dog loved me, I cant recall my loving kids groul at me when I tried to touch them while eating.

[broncocalijohn]

Not really.

When were you let out of your hole? Get back in and dont come out until Second coming of Jesus or Chiefs win a SuperBowl. Make it Jesus coming as the latter would be just plain cruel. You are breaking your own bet

[broncocalijohn]

Really? I went to meetings for 19 years. Yeah, I think I know better than most. Including that fraud Prince.

How many people really switched to JW as Boob came trolling to the door? On my street, we call to warn neighbors that "The JWs are coming." If we have enough warning, we do it with a lantern and horse.

[Los Broncos]

If you abuse children you should be punished by death, no questions asked.

[Beantown Bronco]

Good to know that a dog ranks higher than a human. Yes, I have owned dogs for many years in my life. I never saw a dog give blood to the extreme when 9/11 happened. I love dogs and it is man's best friend but as much as my dog loved me, I cant recall my loving kids groul at me when I tried to touch them while eating.

Actually, yes, most dogs I've met do rank higher than many people I've met.

And it's funny you make the statement about no dogs giving blood when 9/11 happened. Are you serious? Look it up. Dogs were donating blood left and right after 9/11 and, because of that terrible event, pet blood donation and pet organ donation awareness has gone through the roof. I'm not joking.

www.dogblooddonors.com/

For every dog that is aggresive about their food, there are 10 children who throw their food back at their parents or throw it on the floor.

[rugbythug]

If you bothered to do a little investigating I'll bet you would find she was also a victim of similar abuses growing up.

Your Knee jerk reaction will not "fix" anything nor would it serve justice. What needs to happen is counseling for those kids so the horror will not live on to be rained down on their children.

And if you Bothered to do any investigating you will find that the rate of recitivism is extremely high. My wife is a counselor at a Detention center. So your assumptions that I don't understand are false. However whatever happened to her ( and I am sure it is terrible) does not relieve her of the consquences of her own actions.

She is still Broken, and there is no fix for it. "Justice" is subjective.

[Los Broncos]

Why is Bobby here? thought he was out for a year? ???

[-Slap-]

Why is Bobby here? thought he was out for a year? ???

To the surprise of none, he has no honor or pride.

[Los Broncos]

To the surprise of none, he has no honor or pride.

I almost forgot about that. Makes me hate kc more and more.

[broncocalijohn]

Actually, yes, most dogs I've met do rank higher than many people I've met.

And it's funny you make the statement about no dogs giving blood when 9/11 happened. Are you serious? Look it up. Dogs were donating blood left and right after 9/11 and, because of that terrible event, pet blood donation and pet organ donation awareness has gone through the roof. I'm not joking.

www.dogblooddonors.com/

For every dog that is aggresive about their food, there are 10 children who throw their food back at their parents or throw it on the floor.

LOL! Dude, name me one dog that told his owner that he would like to donate for the cause? The dog's owner had the blood donated. You need to realize that the human element made that happen. Then again, you probably dont like the word "Owner" when describing a man's best friend.

[baja]

And if you Bothered to do any investigating you will find that the rate of recitivism is extremely high. My wife is a counselor at a Detention center. So your assumptions that I don't understand are false. However whatever happened to her ( and I am sure it is terrible) does not relieve her of the consquences of her own actions.

She is still Broken, and there is no fix for it. "Justice" is subjective.

Oh you're right, pull her lips off that should fix it.

[Mtbrncofn]

The original story in this thread is so incredibly disgusting it made my stomach just roll reading it. I cannot even fathom how a person could do that to anyone, much less an innocent child. I'm just incredulous.

Those poor, poor children.

[phisig150]

No Wire Hangers!!!!

[watermock]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco
We are trying to quantify cruelty because you said nothing is more cruel than a human being....I disagree. The reasoning behind said actions are irrelevant.

That's a very odd statement. I don't care if you believe in God, but the fact of the matter is humans have something called free will. And should have at least a semblance of a concience. Obviously, many don't.

Suppose Beezer toys with some poor mouse again and again but doesn't really care for it over Friskies, just amusement...If he didn't have a bowl or can of friskies, he would of eaten the mouse. The fact is, he's acting on pure instinct. There are no mice around here in town, I doubt he's even seen one, but he will still police the house every day. If he didn't have Friskies, he would eat the mouse, and consider it tasty.

The point is, it's not really a concious choice, pets know right from wrong by the behavipr or punishement of humans. Honestly, they don't have a moral barometer, you can mold behavior by the Pavlov's dog rule. You can change behavior, but it doesn't mean they really understand why their behavior is wrong, just that that behavior may be punished.

There is no "right or wrong" in the animal kingdom. How you can say there are "no reasons" for cruel behaior is quite puzzling to me...I won't say what I really think such a view is.

Humans have an inherent knowledge what is right and what is wrong...it's called free will. People conciously decide to act cruely or behave. You think a tiger cares about the feelings of a baby wildebeast? It's not cruelty whatsoever, he/she doesn't give it a second thought, because it's completely normal.

[Dudeskey]

Hey prince is a Jehova's Witness.....

is he? damn... As far as JW's are concerned, I'll keep my opinions to myself...