OT worries - tell me what you know about this guy...

[chrisp]

I've been reading in other threads here that Lepsis' recovery might not be a total slam-dunk despite what the doctors are saying.

Its started me worrying, becuase frankly it would mean that we don't have too many solid proven options at one of the premier O-line positions. Pears is still a little raw, and was undrafted so may not have all that much upside (although we live in hope) and Meadows can't have too many years left in him - he came back from retirement and people don't normally do that for much more than a year or two..

So, I had a look at the roster to see what else was there and I saw this guy:

Jacob Rogers 6'6"/312lbs

Now don't get me wrong - I'm not suggesting we have the next Gary Zimmerman here, but I'm curious to know if he might have some potential to provide quality depth. He was originally drafted in the 2nd round by Dallas, and has spent at least one of his 3 pro years on Injured reserve, so it may be that he just hasn't had a fair crack yet.

Does anybody know anything about this guy and what upside (if any) he might have?

Obviously right now he has 'camp meat' written all over him, but youth and the draft pedigree may mean he's not a total write-off..

[footstepsfrom#27]

First of all...what have the doctors said about Lepsis recovery?

I live in Dallas...and I have posted in here once or twice about Rogers before. Jacob Rogers was basically a victim of Bill Parcells ego and his bizzare method of handling injuries, especially with rookies. Parcells philosophy is if you're hurt you're worthless. The story has been told down here that Rogers is a wuss and the rest of his teamates thought so too, so he was cut but there are questions about whether this is true or not. What is known is that Rogers got hurt and Parcells wanted him to play anyway, so the kid went back out there and messed himself up even better. Once that happened it appears Parcells basically turned on the guy. This is not the only example of this kind of thing by Parcells...the Crackboys had another lineman also who I can't remember now but he did the same deal with him. Personally I think he's worth a look and if he was drafted in the 2nd round he has talent. He could be a find and he could be NFL Europe material...I'm kind of anxious to see what he can do though.

[watermock]

Parcells had the diplomatic skills of Curtis LeMay and the intepersonal skills of a skink...the coward ran away from Dallas like a crybaby, just like he has with every other team he's raped. It's obvious that Jones screwed the pooch with the Team Obliterator, and even the Big Tuna couldn't reel him in....like that was a big surprise.

I would of loved to have the Tuna miked up on that Romo muff that nixed their season. The funny thing is that he almost got the first down. It was like a foot short.

I know zero about Rodgers, but you let the kid heal his knee and ego and who knows...

He's on the roster? Good...one thing about Denver is they let players heal if injured. It's one thing to play hurt, quite another to attempt to play injured.

My opinion is that the player should sue Parcells if he was injured, not hurt.

[shaun514]

First of all...what have the doctors said about Lepsis recovery?

I live in Dallas...and I have posted in here once or twice about Rogers before. Jacob Rogers was basically a victim of Bill Parcells ego and his bizzare method of handling injuries, especially with rookies. Parcells philosophy is if you're hurt you're worthless. The story has been told down here that Rogers is a wuss and the rest of his teamates thought so too, so he was cut but there are questions about whether this is true or not. What is known is that Rogers got hurt and Parcells wanted him to play anyway, so the kid went back out there and messed himself up even better. Once that happened it appears Parcells basically turned on the guy. This is not the only example of this kind of thing by Parcells...the Crackboys had another lineman also who I can't remember now but he did the same deal with him. Personally I think he's worth a look and if he was drafted in the 2nd round he has talent. He could be a find and he could be NFL Europe material...I'm kind of anxious to see what he can do though.

I don't see Rogers as a "victim" here, but rather a tackle that just isn't very good. Until Dallas found Columbo, the RT position was a turnstile.

[chrisp]

First of all...what have the doctors said about Lepsis recovery?

Well, I don't know but its the reams of stuff YOU'VE posted about microfracture surgery in another thread that has me crapping my pants so you tell me...:wiggle:

In fact that was a poor choice of words on my part becuase I haven't seen any statements from the actual doctors - all I've heard is the occasional journalistic comment that he should be Ok coupled with an almost total lack of comment from ether the Bronco's coaches or their medical staff. What I really meant to say was that despite the 'official version' of events saying that Lepsis is doing fine and will be back to his best, I'm not yet convinced.

I'm encouraged by the comments on Parcells - it tallies with my own understanding of the guy, and it would mean that this kid still has upside.

IF he's healed fully from whatever injury he had and IF he didn't shag his whole career by trying to play too soon then we might just have got ourselves the equivalent of a free 2nd-round draft pick as this kid has yet to get a chance to show what he can do yet.

He doesn't seem to have played at all in 06 after sitting out 05 on injured reserve - so he doesn't really hold any responsibility for the Cowboys total lack of pass-protection the last couple of seasons.

Certainly it would seem that whatever happens, it fair to look at this kid as being a little bit more than just camp fodder destined for the practice squad if he's lucky, even though that still could be what he turns out to be....

[chrisp]

I don't see Rogers as a "victim" here, but rather a tackle that just isn't very good. Until Dallas found Columbo, the RT position was a turnstile.

I'm not interested in the legal/moral aspect of whether he has a legitimate greivance with Parcells or not, I'm just interested in whether he might have been harshly judged or not, becuase if he was, then he may still be of some use to us.

Few rookie linemen outside of the top 10 in any draft see any action in their rookie year, but then afterr that he was on IR and then in the doghouse....

I'm not getting too excited but you never know....sometimes we do make a silk purse out of someone else's castoff sow's ear - remember Bert Berry?

(anyway he's on the team now so we'll find out soon enough!!)

[footstepsfrom#27]

I don't see Rogers as a "victim" here, but rather a tackle that just isn't very good. Until Dallas found Columbo, the RT position was a turnstile.
Just curious...do you live in Dallas? If not you probably didn't catch what went on here, and if you do live here you ought to know what I'm saying is true. Parcells essentially went public on this kid and let it be known he was a pansy who couldn't play and didn't like to get hit, which I find hard to believe since USC isn't famous for starting sissies in their line and the guy garnered All American votes. Regardless of the reason he wasn't on the field it was a totally classless move by a guy who by most accounts is pretty much a real jerk. You're right about the OT spot. It was a turnstile, but Rogers wasn't expected to solve that as a rookie was he? No he wasn't. It's a bad idea to consider a rookie offensive lineman, especially a tackle, a bust straight out of the gate. Look at Pears...he spent a year in NFLE and suddenly he's playing and even starting with a possible future in the league.

Denver's got a considerably better history than the Cowboys at consistently developing NFL linemen from guys they got with a lot less pedigree than Rogers had coming out of college. Why not take a wait and see approach before saying he can't play?

[footstepsfrom#27]

Well, I don't know but its the reams of stuff YOU'VE posted about microfracture surgery in another thread that has me crapping my pants so you tell me...:wiggle:

In fact that was a poor choice of words on my part becuase I haven't seen any statements from the actual doctors - all I've heard is the occasional journalistic comment that he should be Ok coupled with an almost total lack of comment from ether the Bronco's coaches or their medical staff. What I really meant to say was that despite the 'official version' of events saying that Lepsis is doing fine and will be back to his best, I'm not yet convinced.
Right...I thought maybe something had been said by the doctors that I was unaware of. The nature of the surgery is such that it won't be known for some time yet how he's progressing. We just have to wait to see unfortunately.
I'm encouraged by the comments on Parcells - it tallies with my own understanding of the guy, and it would mean that this kid still has upside.
That's how I look at it. Denver's got a pretty good bead on finding NFL talent even in the later rounds that fit our system so with a guy taken in the 2nd round I wouldn't bet against him finding a home here.
IF he's healed fully from whatever injury he had and IF he didn't shag his whole career by trying to play too soon then we might just have got ourselves the equivalent of a free 2nd-round draft pick as this kid has yet to get a chance to show what he can do yet.
Exactly...I wish I could tell you more on how bad his injury was...I think it was a knee though...but I don't know any more than what I've said so far. If he passes his physical and is on the training camp roster we'll get a chance to see what he's capable of.
He doesn't seem to have played at all in 06 after sitting out 05 on injured reserve - so he doesn't really hold any responsibility for the Cowboys total lack of pass-protection the last couple of seasons.
Exactly. Even if he was on the roster he wasn't going to be expected to start as a rookie. My feeling is Parcells screwed up and got mad, then wanted to justify himself. But he drafted the guy...I didn't hear him taking blame for that of course...he never takes the blame for anything actually.
Certainly it would seem that whatever happens, it fair to look at this kid as being a little bit more than just camp fodder destined for the practice squad if he's lucky, even though that still could be what he turns out to be....
I think without a year in the system to learn he's going to be an NFLE guy like Pears so we might see him going there for a year to play with Eslinger. At 312 lbs he's in that mid range size for tackles...not huge but not the dinky 290 pounders we've had so far. I like that he's here.

[chrisp]

I could be wrong, but I think that the fact that he has already had a few years in the league, albeit injured for the large part, means that the clock will be ticking a little louder on this guy than on others. I'm not sure we'll give him the luxury of a stint in NFLE like we did with Pears.

Its true that we are more patient with young linemen than other teams, and no-one is less patient with players than Parcells, but I still think that this guy will be expected to show something this year. Remember he may not know the Broncos system, but he has been in NFL camps and played in games. He will have to make the roster as a backup tackle to stick around (in fact I'm not sure if he's even eligible for the PS being a 3-year vet??) but you don't get drafted in the second round without having most of the raw physical tools so he could have the ability to do that.

Main thing is this guy is not just camp meat. He should be viewed as a potential contributor who will be fighting seriously for a roster spot. If he makes the team, then we need to keep watching him to see if he can push further and challenge the starters.

Parcells has a history of calling players out publicly and calling them wusses or cissies. Its his motivational technique. It works better when your winning superbowls and winning the attention and respect commensurate with that. When you struggle to get a team to 8-8 then your words don't carry quite the same punch.

I think Parcells realised that which is why he hung it up this offseason.

[shaun514]

Just curious...do you live in Dallas? If not you probably didn't catch what went on here, and if you do live here you ought to know what I'm saying is true. Parcells essentially went public on this kid and let it be known he was a pansy who couldn't play and didn't like to get hit, which I find hard to believe since USC isn't famous for starting sissies in their line and the guy garnered All American votes. Regardless of the reason he wasn't on the field it was a totally classless move by a guy who by most accounts is pretty much a real jerk. You're right about the OT spot. It was a turnstile, but Rogers wasn't expected to solve that as a rookie was he? No he wasn't. It's a bad idea to consider a rookie offensive lineman, especially a tackle, a bust straight out of the gate. Look at Pears...he spent a year in NFLE and suddenly he's playing and even starting with a possible future in the league.

Denver's got a considerably better history than the Cowboys at consistently developing NFL linemen from guys they got with a lot less pedigree than Rogers had coming out of college. Why not take a wait and see approach before saying he can't play?

I don't need to live in Dallas. They are my favorite team and I have access to every bit of material and press that you do. I also know that outside of a couple of guys last year (that Parcells reportedly didn't want to cut anyways,) there are few people that were "written off" by Parcells in Dallas that have had success in the NFL.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I don't need to live in Dallas. They are my favorite team and I have access to every bit of material and press that you do. I also know that outside of a couple of guys last year (that Parcells reportedly didn't want to cut anyways,) there are few people that were "written off" by Parcells in Dallas that have had success in the NFL.
Well that explains a lot if you're a Cowboy fan. You're part of the biggest homoer fan base in the NFL...90% of you guys are fairweather fans who think the world revolves around that team but they'll jump ship as soon as they go 8-8...what are you doing in here BTW?

You obviously don't have access to everything I do since you don't get local Dallas TV stations, or probably get talk radio from here which is where much of the information on the Cowboys gets it's genesis. That's a huge factor because unless you live here you really don't get the same story, any more than I get the whole story on Bronco happenings. Jacob Rogers got into exactly two games his rookie season in 2004 when Paracells tried to play him on the right side instead of the left side OT where he was a consensus All American and 3 year starter in college. He hurt his knee that year, and tried to rehab it and couldn't, electing just prior to the 2005 season to undergo season ending microfracture knee surgery which seemed to really piss Parcells off. Parcells wanted him to play and he clearly wasn't ready to so Parcells acted like he didn't want to play football because he was injured. Rogers may very well be one of numerous examples of athletes who tried to come back to soon from that surgery at the request of Parcells. He missed the entire 2005 season and was waived and added to IR for 2005, and then prior to the 2006 season having never got back on the field to even see if he was ready, Parcells cut him and tried to publicly humiliate him by commenting that he wasn't tough enough for the NFL. Parcell basically not only cut the guy before waiting to see if he could get better, he made sure he trashed him on the way out the door. Real classy.

This is not the only example of this kind of Parcells behavior. Stephen Peterman, a guard who was drafted in the 3rd round out of LSU right after the Cowboys took Rogers in 2004, was another player who got hurt and found himself in Parcells doghouse because of it. Peterman came out of a meaningless preseason game his rookie year with a knee sprain and was given "the look" by Parcells for it. He went back in the next play and got his ACL torn up because of it. Peterman was never the same and got cut in August 2006 having played in only 6 games. Parcells had some smart remarks on his exit as well.

Rogers is a medical question mark and a guy who had solid NFL talent that is going to get a chance here that he didn't get in Dallas for God's gift to coaching.

[shaun514]

Well that explains a lot if you're a Cowboy fan. You're part of the biggest homoer fan base in the NFL...90% of you guys are fairweather fans who think the world revolves around that team but they'll jump ship as soon as they go 8-8...what are you doing in here BTW?

You obviously don't have access to everything I do since you don't get local Dallas TV stations, or probably get talk radio from here which is where much of the information on the Cowboys gets it's genesis. That's a huge factor because unless you live here you really don't get the same story, any more than I get the whole story on Bronco happenings. Jacob Rogers got into exactly two games his rookie season in 2004 when Paracells tried to play him on the right side instead of the left side OT where he was a consensus All American and 3 year starter in college. He hurt his knee that year, and tried to rehab it and couldn't, electing just prior to the 2005 season to undergo season ending microfracture knee surgery which seemed to really piss Parcells off. Parcells wanted him to play and he clearly wasn't ready to so Parcells acted like he didn't want to play football because he was injured. Rogers may very well be one of numerous examples of athletes who tried to come back to soon from that surgery at the request of Parcells. He missed the entire 2005 season and was waived and added to IR for 2005, and then prior to the 2006 season having never got back on the field to even see if he was ready, Parcells cut him and tried to publicly humiliate him by commenting that he wasn't tough enough for the NFL. Parcell basically not only cut the guy before waiting to see if he could get better, he made sure he trashed him on the way out the door. Real classy.

This is not the only example of this kind of Parcells behavior. Stephen Peterman, a guard who was drafted in the 3rd round out of LSU right after the Cowboys took Rogers in 2004, was another player who got hurt and found himself in Parcells doghouse because of it. Peterman came out of a meaningless preseason game his rookie year with a knee sprain and was given "the look" by Parcells for it. He went back in the next play and got his ACL torn up because of it. Peterman was never the same and got cut in August 2006 having played in only 6 games. Parcells had some smart remarks on his exit as well.

Rogers is a medical question mark and a guy who had solid NFL talent that is going to get a chance here that he didn't get in Dallas for God's gift to coaching.

The ticket and 103.3 are readily available online and anything related to the Cowboys is recapped at Cowboyszone.com.

Nice characterization of Cowboys fans. I guess it is impossible for any of them to be reasonable. I'm in here because I follow the Broncos because I lived in Colorado for a while.

Peterman hasn't turned into anything special. Once you're in the NFL, it doesn't matter what you did in college. Peterman couldn't outperform an injured Marco Rivera. Rogers has questionable NFL talent, and even that may not be 100% because he's been injured most of his Nfl career.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Rogers has questionable NFL talent, and even that may not be 100% because he's been injured most of his Nfl career.
His "career" consists of two games where he got in on special teams and a knee injury that was operated on with microfracture surgery, something that doctors say basically takes a minimum of one year...often two...to completely rehab. He knew his knee wasn't ready to go but Parcells in his arrogance thought he knew better. Parcells wasn't willing to give this guy a shot to come back for one reason; because he hates injured players. That's a fact any Cowboy fan ought to know.

What constitutes NFL talent on a line like the Cowboys and the skill set neccesary to play in Denver are two totally different things, so at this point you don't know if he has the talent to play here or not. He was considered an excellent technician coming into the draft and I doubt Shanahan would have picked him up if he didn't see something worth taking a chance on.

Sounds to me like you're rooting against the guy since Parcells cut him.