Trade Wilson

[Dedhed]

This topic has been bandied about on various threads, but I thought I'd weigh in with my take and dedicate a thread to it. Let me start by saying that Al is one of my favorite Broncos. He's a great leader, and he has owned this defense for the last four years.

However, it's time for him to go. And I don't mean that in a kick him to the curb sort of way at all. If there are teams like the Lions who are inquiring about trading for him, they have to be serious and the Broncos should jump all over it.

Imagine the scenario where the Broncos trade Al to the Lions for their second rounder. They select Patrick Willis in the first round (moving up if need be), who, imo, is almost an immediate upgrade to Al. Yes, he's not going to be the field general that Wilson is right away, but we have Lynch for that role. Willis is more athletic, a better tackler and better in coverage. Taking into account Wilson's decline and Willis's advance, by the 2008 season Willis will be more effective than Al.

Al was among the best MLBs in the game in 2004, but he is slipping into an average player at the position. Getting a high first day pick for him would be an amazing deal for the Broncos. It may seem cold-blooded to to trade away a life-long Bronco, but that's what if that's what it takes to make this team better I think it has to be done.

With the #34 overall pick we could take whichever first round talent slips out of the first round at safety or DL. Reggie Nelson seems to be dropping, and he or Michael Griffin are likely to be available that early in the 2nd. P-Willie and Griffin or Nelson would make for a superb first day regardless of what we do with the 2 third rounders we have. Or Charles Johnson, Anthony Spencer.

It may be a large IF, but if a team is willing to give a nice pick for Al I have to say it's time to move on.

[Atlas]

Good idea but who is going to replace him?

The only way I would be in favor of trading Wilson is if Shanny believes Webster could fill in his spot.

If you have to trade him and then trade for a LBer to fill his spot or if you have to use a high draft pick to replace him than I don't see the point in it.

[ward63]

I still think trading Al would cause a big stir with this team.

[Drek]

Good idea but who is going to replace him?

The only way I would be in favor of trading Wilson is if Shanny believes Webster could fill in his spot.

If you have to trade him and then trade for a LBer to fill his spot or if you have to use a high draft pick to replace him than I don't see the point in it.

Ahem...


Imagine the scenario where the Broncos trade Al to the Lions for their second rounder. They select Patrick Willis in the first round (moving up if need be), who, imo, is almost an immediate upgrade to Al. Yes, he's not going to be the field general that Wilson is right away, but we have Lynch for that role. Willis is more athletic, a better tackler and better in coverage. Taking into account Wilson's decline and Willis's advance, by the 2008 season Willis will be more effective than Al.

Anyhow, my personal stance is that getting rid of Al is the wrong idea. We should be looking to move him to strong side linebacker. He's good in coverage, powerful on pass rush, and still a solid tackler who just isn't holding up over a season to the beating he gets playing inside.

Our best move with respect to the linebacking crew is trading/cutting Gold and drafting Willis to our new MLB while DJ gets to go back to ROLB and Wilson goes to LOLB.

Of course if Wilson can return late first round value that changes things. Also, if Bates thinks Williams might beat Wilson out for nickel snaps we should consider a trade even more earnestly, Al is great but if he's going to be off the field in nickel packages its hard to justify his pay. But as I said, I'd prefer to see Gold go, Willis brought in, Williams and Wilson play nickel for at least the next season or two while Willis gets up to speed.

[DBroncos4life]

Um no.

[Crushaholic]

If we trade Wilson, I want an impact player. A pick is no good in this case...unless we trade up in the first round. You're talking about trading the heart of the defense...

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Silly idea. He has little value to anyone except the Broncos. He has great value here

[Broncojef]

The Broncos are reloading to make a serious run this year. In order to accomplish that I think we need the man with the most heart out there doing his thing. This is not a time to displace our moral defensive leadership and guy that will get in others face. Is Webster going to get in Bly's face the first time he shows an attitude, no its Al that will slap him around. Al has earned a serious SB run and we will be way close this year. I'd stay with Al for at least two more years as close as we are.

[goldengopher1976]

I must begin by saying that I've never been in a football locker room, let alone an NFL locker room. Therefore, I have only the opinions and stories of others when it comes to understanding the effect a trade like this would have in the locker room. To that end, I've heard everything from "great locker room guy/team leader/can't be replaced" to "it's a business/we all understand/that's how it goes/etc.".

In the end, I'm inclined to agree with the notion that Al is on the decline physically, and if we can get a solid pick for him, I'm more than willing to see what our defense can do with a fresh face at MLB, whether that is a current Bronco, or someone acquired through the draft.

Like every situation, an organization must balance loyalty with the bitter practicalities of the NFL landscape, and in this case, I think it calls for a trade.

[cutthemdown]

Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb.......We have no one to play the middle outside of Al. You don't get rid of a leader like him for an unknown commodity. Broncos are trying to stockpile good people and good players right now no reason to think Wilson can't rebound from a down year. Plus any rookie you draft is going to have growing pains etc etc. If anything we draft a young backer, and a young safety so they can learn from Lynch and Wilson before they retire.

[PRBronco]

Do you reckon DJ is smart enough to pick up playing Mike this offseason?

[Atwater His Ass]

Al has too much heart and soul to trade. Some attributes transcend pure statistical anaylsis.

[Blueflame]

The draft is a crapshoot... some picks pay off and some are Ryan Leafs. But I don't think you trade a four-time Pro Bowler ('02, '03, '05, '06) for an unproven potential asset. 30 isn't all that old for a LB... consider this: Bill Romanowski turned 30 the year the Broncos acquired him from Philadelphia. Do you think he was "on the decline physically" then? While that claim might have some merit six years later when he went to the Fade, he made some memorable plays for our team in the SB years. Who can forget him taunting Kordell in that playoff game in Pittsburgh? ???

Oh, btw... Romo only went to the Pro Bowl twice... in '96 and in '98.

[rubaiyat]

Ahem...



Anyhow, my personal stance is that getting rid of Al is the wrong idea. We should be looking to move him to strong side linebacker. He's good in coverage, powerful on pass rush, and still a solid tackler who just isn't holding up over a season to the beating he gets playing inside.

Our best move with respect to the linebacking crew is trading/cutting Gold and drafting Willis to our new MLB while DJ gets to go back to ROLB and Wilson goes to LOLB.

Of course if Wilson can return late first round value that changes things. Also, if Bates thinks Williams might beat Wilson out for nickel snaps we should consider a trade even more earnestly, Al is great but if he's going to be off the field in nickel packages its hard to justify his pay. But as I said, I'd prefer to see Gold go, Willis brought in, Williams and Wilson play nickel for at least the next season or two while Willis gets up to speed.


It would be the Wil's lineup. Intriguing to say the least. Would Wilson allow someone to take his spot?

[rubaiyat]

The draft is a crapshoot... some picks pay off and some are Ryan Leafs. But I don't think you trade a four-time Pro Bowler ('02, '03, '05, '06) for an unproven potential asset. 30 isn't all that old for a LB... consider this: Bill Romanowski turned 30 the year the Broncos acquired him from Philadelphia. Do you think he was "on the decline physically" then? While that claim might have some merit six years later when he went to the Fade, he made some memorable plays for our team in the SB years. Who can forget him taunting Kordell in that playoff game in Pittsburgh? ???

Oh, btw... Romo only went to the Pro Bowl twice... in '96 and in '98.


He was also a roider. If you need evidence for why that is relevant to the contributions of an older professional athlete see Bonds, Barry.

[Denver724]

DJ's natural position is MLB. I say trade Alc and we can put Gold and Webster at OLB (or draft someone to take DJ's spot). Al is the heart and soul, but your better trading him a year early rather than a year late.

[watermock]

Not yet. Get a LB in the 08 draft. We can't afford a trade for Willis who wants to play mike. Or his salary. I see Rhino here two more years at least. I think he won't turn 29 or 30 till june. We have bigger issues. He had over 100 tackles.

He's not quite the player he was, but he's far from average yet. How about we get him some cover?

[Blueflame]

He was also a roider. If you need evidence for why that is relevant to the contributions of an older professional athlete see Bonds, Barry.

He was also over 30 when he went to his first Pro Bowl. Al's been there four times already...

[Atlas]

Silly idea. He has little value to anyone except the Broncos. He has great value here

He was first team Probowl last year. He is only 30. Not like he is 34. He has value. But he probably has more value for the Broncos.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I like to speculate as much as the next fan, but everytime someone brings up the play of a LB or DB it gives me pause because, as fans, unless you have the coach's game tape, there is little we actually see of their play because the camera generally is not on them. So we, as fans, do not really know how much or how little Wilson's play has slipped, nor can we compare him to the "average" linebacker. Though I suppose it's just talk.

[yerner]

This ain't a video game.

[azbroncfan]

The draft is a crapshoot... some picks pay off and some are Ryan Leafs. But I don't think you trade a four-time Pro Bowler ('02, '03, '05, '06) for an unproven potential asset. 30 isn't all that old for a LB... consider this: Bill Romanowski turned 30 the year the Broncos acquired him from Philadelphia. Do you think he was "on the decline physically" then? While that claim might have some merit six years later when he went to the Fade, he made some memorable plays for our team in the SB years. Who can forget him taunting Kordell in that playoff game in Pittsburgh? ???

Oh, btw... Romo only went to the Pro Bowl twice... in '96 and in '98.

Please don't compare ProBowls as that is just a popularity contest. Like ROMO or not he was more of a PLAYMAKER that AL as much as people will hate to hear it. Other than Speed ROMO was a better Blitzer, better in coverage and a better LB all together. ROMO didn't become a real good LB until after 30 in which roids could of made a difference.

AL is liked by his teamates and a great leader but is a little overrated.

[Odysseus]

Please don't compare ProBowls as that is just a popularity contest. Like ROMO or not he was more of a PLAYMAKER that AL as much as people will hate to hear it. Other than Speed ROMO was a better Blitzer, better in coverage and a better LB all together. ROMO didn't become a real good LB until after 30 in which roids could of made a difference.

AL is liked by his teamates and a great leader but is a little overrated.

Romo was a playmaker for only a couple of years. Roids or not he really could change a games direction.

Al Wilson does not make as many big plays that Romo makes nor does he make as many big whiffs either. I remember when Shannon Sharper posterized him but other than that he's been good.

I don't think Al is overrated. It is not easy finding guys like Al who sweat, bleed and feed on football. The impact that Al adds is he really does see where the play is going and can call it. Romo wanted the glory. Al just wants the win.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I'm not as high on this LB unit as some are.

If the rumors are true that Denver was talking to Detroit about a trade, then it's probable that Shanahan already sees him slowing down some. The time to move a player is just before you believe he's going to take a significant downturn, not after he's taken it. Wilson is good...not sure if he's a pro bowl player at this point. I see him miss a lot of tackles. If we had better interior defensive linemen in front of him it would be easier to judge his performance. If we were able to package him and Bly and the #21 and a 3rd, plus the 08 4th for a move up through the Skins at #6 to the #2 spot for a shot at Johnson I'd do in in a New York minute. Denver is likely to the contender we want...Superbowl...in 08 not in 07...Jay needs at least one full year under center and we need more pieces on defense. So if the deal were right I'd move him. If not...let him finish out here.

[Blueflame]

Please don't compare ProBowls as that is just a popularity contest. Like ROMO or not he was more of a PLAYMAKER that AL as much as people will hate to hear it. Other than Speed ROMO was a better Blitzer, better in coverage and a better LB all together. ROMO didn't become a real good LB until after 30 in which roids could of made a difference.

AL is liked by his teamates and a great leader but is a little overrated.
I'm sure all the athletes who have ever been honored by a Pro Bowl selection will be happy to hear it's all just a popularity contest and has nothing whatsoever to do with performance.

Romo was what he was... some loved him and some hated him while he was here. Everyone hated him when he was on an opposing team and he had a longstanding reputation as a dirty player... no one who paid any attention to his career at all was surprised to find out that he was juiced. Doesn't change the fact that some of his best years came after his 30th birthday though.

Ask any opposing player who's been hit by Al if he's "overrated"...

[Blueflame]

Romo was a playmaker for only a couple of years. Roids or not he really could change a games direction.

Al Wilson does not make as many big plays that Romo makes nor does he make as many big whiffs either. I remember when Shannon Sharper posterized him but other than that he's been good.

I don't think Al is overrated. It is not easy finding guys like Al who sweat, bleed and feed on football. The impact that Al adds is he really does see where the play is going and can call it. Romo wanted the glory. Al just wants the win.

Exactly, QT.... Al is a team player; Romo was a "me" player.

[watermock]

If even his stupid agent can't even make a decent statement, so be it. He probably threw his cell phone overboard and went jello laugh. "Let them bother me now!" Reminds me of when Homer's plane was overbooked and they moved him to first class..."Would you like the T-Bone or the Ribeye?"

"Can I have both?"

It's like Country AND Western music.

[rubaiyat]

He was also over 30 when he went to his first Pro Bowl. Al's been there four times already...

How is that exactly relevant? Weren't you using Romo as a reason why 30 isn't that old for an LB?

Whether Al is better than him or not is irrelevant. Romo was a roider. It is pretty much confirmed (though not by completely scientifically rigorous "loss of function" standards) that steroids can allow older players to remain physically capable if not monstrous in later years. As such using him as proof a 30+ LB can be highly productive is pointless.

[Blueflame]

How is that exactly relevant? Weren't you using Romo as a reason why 30 isn't that old for an LB?

Whether Al is better than him or not is irrelevant. Romo was a roider. It is pretty much confirmed (though not by completely scientifically rigorous "loss of function" standards) that steroids can allow older players to remain physically capable if not monstrous in later years. As such using him as proof a 30+ LB can be highly productive is pointless.

Isn't it a contradiction in terms to say the team should trade away a 30-year-old LB (for what round of pick, btw? Wilson was a 1st rounder...) because he's "too old" when there's a history of acquisition of one who subsequently started for us for six more years?

At any rate, what was it I've recently read on this forum? "We shouldn't worry about any draft picks we might have gotten in compensation for Plummer if he had not chosen to retire instead because Shanny would probably just waste the pick anyway".... * :P

*for clarification purposes, I do not necessarily agree with these sentiments, but I have seen such views posted recently.... and who knows, we might just be trading Big Al for this year's Paul Toviessi...

[watermock]

Wilson won't be traded, neither will Bly.

[Jetmeck]

Good idea but who is going to replace him?

The only way I would be in favor of trading Wilson is if Shanny believes Webster could fill in his spot.

If you have to trade him and then trade for a LBer to fill his spot or if you have to use a high draft pick to replace him than I don't see the point in it.

Exactly right. Nice pics too.

[watermock]

Let's send Wilson and 50 million to Willis from Chicago!

You people need to buy a vowel. MLB is not our problem on D.

[TDmvp]

now !!! on to the next thing children ... Dont do drugs ...
and dont trade AL ...

next topic pls ...

[Northman]

Please don't compare ProBowls as that is just a popularity contest. Like ROMO or not he was more of a PLAYMAKER that AL as much as people will hate to hear it. Other than Speed ROMO was a better Blitzer, better in coverage and a better LB all together. ROMO didn't become a real good LB until after 30 in which roids could of made a difference.

AL is liked by his teamates and a great leader but is a little overrated.



Thats how i feel too. At the end of the day you need a player who is going to back up his bark on the field. I love Al as a team leader but he needs to show it a lot more on the field by making plays. If someone is willing to give up draft choices or players for Al i would like to see a trade happen.

[SPORTSWRITER]

If we trade him, I hope we draft Patrick Willis an Ole Miss MLB who is 6 ft.01 in., 235 lbs., and supposedly runs a 4.55 to 4.60 forty, which should be fast enough for a MLB.

[DelBronco]

I wouldn't be against trading Wilson while he still had value, because his play has started to decline. My biggest problem with this scenario is....what happens if we deal him to the Lions for their 2nd, then Willis gets taken before our pick at 21? We'd be going into a season in which we've been active in FA and trades in an attempt to win now, with Webster at MLB. No thanks.

[Natedogg]

Yeah. Let's throw rod smith into the trade too and see if we can get a sixth for him. Moronic.

[dbfan21]

I think a lot of valid points have been made on this idea, but in the end, it's a bad idea. Wilson is a leader, a solid starter and can make things happen for this team. Trading him is not the way to go at this time.

[OrangeShadow]

I realize that this is a buisness but you dont mess with the chemistry of a team like that. When a guys been here and been a leader this long trading him would cause to much of a shake up.

[cmhargrove]

1) I'm glad that Shanahan is smarter than this thread. (I am trying not to attack ad hominem).

2) I'm glad we didn't listen to comments like this in the last few years of Elway's career.

3) If you think someone will really be better for this team (including DJ, Lance Briggs, Patrick Willis, etc.), bring them in and let them compete with Al for the starting job. I bet he still wins his job. That's the team statement right, best players make the field? Don't cut him, make him compete with anyone - I bet he is the best MLB for our team this year and would win his job.

A heart and soul team leader coming off consecutive Pro Bowl awards does not deserve this crap. Al isn't perfect, but his results and work ethic are never in question. Make him restructure his big numbers next year but the talk about trading him is idiotic. Draft another LB if you want, but make the guy take Al's job, don't just hand it to him.

[Dedhed]

A lot of good points, but if the Lions offer #34 this is a no-brainer from where I sit.

[cmhargrove]

A lot of good points, but if the Lions offer #34 this is a no-brainer from where I sit.

A draft number doesn't guarantee you jack. First, it doesn't guarantee the player you want. Then you never know if that player can outcompete the guy you just traded. Willis won't be there at #34.

If I was a cold hearted team captain trader, I would use that pick to sign someone like Vilma that has already proven his skills. He could reunite with DJ, and there would be frollicking among the LB corps.

However, Al stays. He will once again prove why he deserves his job. I understand why you brought up this discussion, but I believe that time will prove you wrong as this season progresses. Al deserves to be here and will be an integral part of a championship run.

[sirhcyennek81]

No one in FA, and no one in the draft is better then Al Wilson is right now. A draft pick is like getting an inheritance in confederate money...


:Broncos:

[bendog]

Wilson's one wrong hit away from retirement. Nobody sane (well Millen maybe) would trade for the guy. He should have been moved to Sam years ago, but that's water under the bridge. Most likely he has 2 quality years left in him. He's overrated, imo, but hardly the weakest link on the team.

Besides, of the entire defense, Champ, Bly and he best fit Bates' scheme. Though the two Wills sort of fit too.

[ICON]

No.

[Rock Chalk]

Concerning the "popularity contest" argument.

In 05, Al wasnt voted to the pro-bowl, he was taken by Dungy as teh coaches choice because dungy couldnt believe Al wasnt selected.

The fans get down on Al, not entirely sure why but there is not a coach in the league that would trade Al from their team, and that includes Shanahan. Is he over-rated? No. He is one of the top 4 or 5 MLBs in the league and you just dont trade talent like that.

Would you people want to trade Champ Bailey for a low first round pick? Would you have traded Randy Gradishar to move up in the draft? How about Mecklenberg or Rulon Jones? You dont see Chicago trying to trade Urlacher away nor do you see the Ravens trying to trade Lewis away even though eh is clearly on the decline. Hell you dont even see Miami trying to trade ZachThomas away and that dude is practically a fossil.

Point is, MLBs of Wilson's caliber dont come around every year. We might get a suitable replacement in the draft, but the odds are really good, overwhelming in fact, that we get someone no where near Al's level at any point in his career.

[Steve Prefontaine]

Man this is tough. I love Al Wilson, but you make some good points. It’s definitely reaching a stage where I anticipate Al’s skills start to decline a little. He’s just taken a beating over the years for the Broncos, which is another reason it would be sad to see him leave.

You might get me on board if Willis falls to 21. Then Denver gets an extra 2nd round pick they can use on DL, S, or WR.

But if Denver has to package another pick to move up in the first round and grab Willis, I don’t like the move at all. Then you are basically trading Wilson for Willis straight up and you are not addressing the other team needs.

[cpad007]

This is all crazy talk. Someone already pointed out that LB are not our chief concern on the defense. Bly should more than fill DWill (rip) shoes, and we need D-Line help like there is no tomorrow. Put the focus where it is needed.

However, how is Al's health these days? Is he fully recovered from that neck-stinger he took? I can only think of John Mobley when it comes to those neck injuries...it took John out of the game.

[obediah]

lol someone dipped into the crack pipe a couple times before posting.

Why is everyone always concearned about the talent, age, etc. of a player OVER the Heart.

It takes a hell of a lot more than talent to win on Sunday. Yes a talented LBer is very important, but not as important as what a team lead brings to the team, Energy, Passion, Heart. Wilson brings it all and the boy is an animal on top of it. You would be a moron to trade Wilson right now.

You just have to face the fact that no matter how many superstars you stack on a team or how much talent you can stack, youll never see a bowl without the heart and passion for the game that people like Al Wilson bring to the team.


Thats all i gots to say bout that...

Obediah

[azbroncfan]

]I'm sure all the athletes who have ever been honored by a Pro Bowl selection will be happy to hear it's all just a popularity contest and has nothing whatsoever to do with performance. [/B]



Probowl voting is a joke and it is fan voting which is a popularity contest. Lynch is a perfect example of the Probowl popularity contest. Vince Young made the probowl with more INT's than TD's. Al is a good linebacker just not much of a PLAYMAKER. Denver seriously lacks PLAYMAKERS on the defensive side of the ball outside of Champ.

[Phantom]

No sir!

Didn't we draft Terry Pierce in the second? Is he still in the league?
Hey, let's trade Al for another Terry Pierce. It's the chance you take.

[Los Broncos]

He was also a roider. If you need evidence for why that is relevant to the contributions of an older professional athlete see Bonds, Barry.

Or ask Lyle Alzado, wait hes dead.

[SportinOne]

Champ is going to be on the decline soon, too. If we make the trade now for an up and comer like Antrelle Rolle we could land Jarvis Moss or (insert your bust here) and by the time the 2013 season rolls around we just might have a better player at corner than we would have keeping Champ around.

This isn't Madden. Wilson is a Bronco for life.

[Blueflame]

No sir!

Didn't we draft Terry Pierce in the second? Is he still in the league?
Hey, let's trade Al for another Terry Pierce. It's the chance you take.

Terry Pierce.... 2nd round, #51 overall in the 2003 draft. At least he played a few downs for us, unlike Paul Toviessi, also taken in the 2nd round at #51 overall (2001)... I don't think he ever even suited up. Al himself was a first rounder, #31 overall...

[rubaiyat]

Isn't it a contradiction in terms to say the team should trade away a 30-year-old LB (for what round of pick, btw? Wilson was a 1st rounder...) because he's "too old" when there's a history of acquisition of one who subsequently started for us for six more years?

At any rate, what was it I've recently read on this forum? "We shouldn't worry about any draft picks we might have gotten in compensation for Plummer if he had not chosen to retire instead because Shanny would probably just waste the pick anyway".... * :P

*for clarification purposes, I do not necessarily agree with these sentiments, but I have seen such views posted recently.... and who knows, we might just be trading Big Al for this year's Paul Toviessi...\

And again you miss the point.

That guy that started for six more years was a roider. His contributions at an older age can't be judged as it's been pretty much proven that steroids can put an older athlete (or even less talented athlete) to a much higher level of performance than without. Use someone else, I'm sure there are others, but Romo is NOT a valid example of what normal 30 year olds can accomplish in the NFL at his position. Certainly, SOME freakish 30 year old people could, I'm sure they are out there and there is historical precedent, but not with Romo/

Though we have no scientific proof Bonds would not have put up similar numbers, the fact he was pushing geriatric age in MLB and putting up unprecedented 50+ homers type years is definitely some evidence to that effect.

[Atlas]

\

And again you miss the point.

That guy that started for six more years was a roider. His contributions at an older age can't be judged as it's been pretty much proven that steroids can put an older athlete (or even less talented athlete) to a much higher level of performance than without. Use someone else, I'm sure there are others, but Romo is NOT a valid example of what normal 30 year olds can accomplish in the NFL at his position. Certainly, SOME freakish 30 year old people could, I'm sure they are out there and there is historical precedent, but not with Romo/

Though we have no scientific proof Bonds would not have put up similar numbers, the fact he was pushing geriatric age in MLB and putting up unprecedented 50+ homers type years is definitely some evidence to that effect.

If it means anything Romo said that he never used roids until he went to the Raiders in 2001

[Blueflame]

\

And again you miss the point.

That guy that started for six more years was a roider. His contributions at an older age can't be judged as it's been pretty much proven that steroids can put an older athlete (or even less talented athlete) to a much higher level of performance than without. Use someone else, I'm sure there are others, but Romo is NOT a valid example of what normal 30 year olds can accomplish in the NFL at his position. Certainly, SOME freakish 30 year old people could, I'm sure they are out there and there is historical precedent, but not with Romo/

Though we have no scientific proof Bonds would not have put up similar numbers, the fact he was pushing geriatric age in MLB and putting up unprecedented 50+ homers type years is definitely some evidence to that effect.
Romo was the example used because he played for our team, hence most posters here are familiar with how he played. Since you insist on another example because of Romo's 'roid use, how about pointing to Junior Seau? He turned 30 in 1999 while he was still playing for the Boltz. He's had a few productive years since '99, no? Of course, he might be roiding too and just hasn't yet been caught, so maybe his numbers can be airily dismissed, too....

[goldengopher1976]

Why is it that half of the "pro-Wilson" posters here feel the need to use personal language and call those of us who would argue/think otherwise stupid? This is all just opinion--and while some opinions are better than others--the attempt to strengthen the "pro" position by calling the other stupid is...well, stupid.

Don't say, "that's stupid" as if that were a foregone conclusion, it obviously is not. Only time will tell, and each side will get their chance at "I told you so".

[azbroncfan]

I don't think Wilson is tradeable due to his cap hit and I hope he stays anyways, but to call him a great pass rusher/blitzer is just a lie and he doesn't make that many PLAYS/TO's.

[Blueflame]

I don't think Wilson is tradeable due to his cap hit and I hope he stays anyways, but to call him a great pass rusher/blitzer is just a lie and he doesn't make that many PLAYS/TO's.

Uh-huh.... Wilson's "overrated".... and that's why he leads the team in tackles, right?

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=188

[Rock Chalk]

Why is it that half of the "pro-Wilson" posters here feel the need to use personal language and call those of us who would argue/think otherwise stupid? This is all just opinion--and while some opinions are better than others--the attempt to strengthen the "pro" position by calling the other stupid is...well, stupid.

Don't say, "that's stupid" as if that were a foregone conclusion, it obviously is not. Only time will tell, and each side will get their chance at "I told you so".

Because you are.

Its that simple.

Just because you have an opinion doesnt make it an intelligent one.

[NFLBRONCO]

Uh-huh.... Wilson's "overrated".... and that's why he leads the team in tackles, right?

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=188


Thanks for link pretty interesting actually. It is weird though I never seem to notice him during games very much. So I guess pro bowl tag is way more important then anything. Look at all the ripping Gold gets and he is 2nd in tackles?.

[Houshyamama]

Concerning the "popularity contest" argument.

In 05, Al wasnt voted to the pro-bowl, he was taken by Dungy as teh coaches choice because dungy couldnt believe Al wasnt selected.

The fans get down on Al, not entirely sure why but there is not a coach in the league that would trade Al from their team, and that includes Shanahan. Is he over-rated? No. He is one of the top 4 or 5 MLBs in the league and you just dont trade talent like that.

Would you people want to trade Champ Bailey for a low first round pick? Would you have traded Randy Gradishar to move up in the draft? How about Mecklenberg or Rulon Jones? You dont see Chicago trying to trade Urlacher away nor do you see the Ravens trying to trade Lewis away even though eh is clearly on the decline. Hell you dont even see Miami trying to trade ZachThomas away and that dude is practically a fossil.

Point is, MLBs of Wilson's caliber dont come around every year. We might get a suitable replacement in the draft, but the odds are really good, overwhelming in fact, that we get someone no where near Al's level at any point in his career.

Good post. We're not starting a youth movement here. This defense needs to be good for the next few years while Champ is still in his prime. Moving Al would be an awful idea, and for what... a second round pick? get outta here.

[ZONA]

I think what is going on truthfuly is the Broncos are not shopping Wilson but if somebody makes them an offer they can't refuse, then it's just business. As for the players on this team not liking the move, hey, last time I checked they were not the HC. They ALL understand it's a business and players move alot.

The reason you can't just dump Wilson for a 3rd is the same reason we dumped Pryce because we thought he was washed up and he had a great year in Baltimore. Wilson could turn in a few more good years. Like I said, it would have to be a great offer, something like a very high #2 pick or a lower #2/high 3rd and a solid player.

People - please get over the Johnson crap. It's getting lame to keep hearing that nonsense. Broncos will not move up to #2. Walker is already making bank and there is no way you're going to pay both WR's that much bank.

[azbroncfan]

Uh-huh.... Wilson's "overrated".... and that's why he leads the team in tackles, right?

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=188

Just because you get a lot of tackles doesn't mean you are not overrated, but I'll use to support my claim as he isn't even in top 40 of the league in total tackles. Not like he is blowing people away with his tackle numbers. I never said he wasn't any good I just said he is a little overrated and doesn't make many big time plays (4 sacks and 0 INT's isn't very good past 2 years). Solid but not spectacular.

[goldengopher1976]

Because you are.

Its that simple.

Just because you have an opinion doesnt make it an intelligent one.

Hmmm...ask a question, get an answer I suppose.

The fact is, if Al stays, I'll be rooting for him just like I always have, hoping he puts together a fantastic season. I'm just inclined to think, for all the reasons listed in this thread, that this season will mark the beginning of the end of Al's good years.

[Blueflame]

Just because you get a lot of tackles doesn't mean you are not overrated, but I'll use to support my claim as he isn't even in top 40 of the league in total tackles. Not like he is blowing people away with his tackle numbers. I never said he wasn't any good I just said he is a little overrated and doesn't make many big time plays (4 sacks and 0 INT's isn't very good past 2 years). Solid but not spectacular.

He's worth more to the team than a roll-of-the-dice 2nd round draft choice. End of story.

... don't quite understand why it's suddenly "en vogue" to minimize the value of the all-time leading receiver on the team and the "heart and soul of the defense" just because they're gaining a bit of mileage on the ol' odometer, but hey, those who are calling for this trade just might have applauded the drafting of Tommy Maddox* back in '92.... after all, John Elway was clearly over the hill and "overrated" at the ripe old age of 32. ::) :P

*oh, and btw... how did that first round; #25 overall pick work out for the Broncos?

[watermock]

Just because you get a lot of tackles doesn't mean you are not overrated, but I'll use to support my claim as he isn't even in top 40 of the league in total tackles.

Really...care to post a stat to support that?

[Taco John]

The only scenario that I would be willing to trade Al Wilson is if we come away with a deal that gives us the second pick overall in the draft. I love Al, but every man has his price, and that one is mine.

Or maybe I should put it like this:

I'm in favor of any deal that nets us Calvin Johnson, with anybody on the team open for trade except for Jay Cutler. It's not that I'm in a hurry to get rid of Al. I love Al. But I love the idea of Jay to Johnson for the next 6-10 years much, much more.

[Blueflame]

Actually Wilson ranked 37th....

http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/NFL/LB-TACKLES/2006/regular

And his name is still the first Bronco on the list...

[DB-Freak]

Please don't compare ProBowls as that is just a popularity contest. Like ROMO or not he was more of a PLAYMAKER that AL as much as people will hate to hear it. Other than Speed ROMO was a better Blitzer, better in coverage and a better LB all together. ROMO didn't become a real good LB until after 30 in which roids could of made a difference.

AL is liked by his teamates and a great leader but is a little overrated.

In no way in hell, was Romo better than Wilson in coverage. Wilson is one of the best coverage LB's out there. Romo at best was decent at it.


But yea, Romo was a far better blitzer than Wilson.

[watermock]

Here is one LB I wouldn't mind trading for.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/395932

[broncocalijohn]

Here is one LB I wouldn't mind trading for.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/395932

Not a bad thought. 4 forced fumbles and 130 tackles is pretty healthy. Why isnt Gradishar looking better for the HOF with over 200 tackles a year in two shorter game seasons when we love a guy with 130 to 140 tackles? People question tackles from CB as they might have got the tackle by missing the receiver. Linebackers job is to get tackles. They are there to stop the run first, get the QB second.
Outside LB need INTs. Dont have record on that but he only had 2.

[Northman]

I think a lot of valid points have been made on this idea, but in the end, it's a bad idea. Wilson is a leader, a solid starter and can make things happen for this team. Trading him is not the way to go at this time.



Leadership is not the only quality a player needs to have. Jake had leadership qualities but his play on the field began to hurt the team thus we needed to make a move there. If we can upgrade at Al's position to improve the team than thats what the team should consider.

[Durango]

I really hate the idea of trading Wilson, but if it would move us up to draft inside the top 5 or 6 picks, it seems like a deal we shouldn't refuse.

The Broncos aren't an organization that will get a shot at the best college talent very often because we're always competitive. When the situation presents itself, this might be a good year to take a deal, especially for a chance to get a player like Gaines Adams, Joe Thomas or Calvin Johnson.

I would miss Wilson though, and I believe the lockeroom would suffer as well.

[azbroncfan]

Really...care to post a stat to support that?


Depends on where you get your stats, ESPN has him at 103 TT and NFL.com has him 113TT or so which is just barely inside the top 40. He still is overrated a little and I don't know why some people get their panties in a bunch over it.

[Blueflame]

Depends on where you get your stats, ESPN has him at 103 TT and NFL.com has him 113TT or so which is just barely inside the top 40. He still is overrated a little and I don't know why some people get their panties in a bunch over it.

Whether or not one views him as "overrated" (a rather subjective term), he still has more value to the team (as the team's top tackler and as a locker room leader) than a #34 overall draft pick, who could... maybe... end up being valuable in the future (but probably won't see much, if any, playing time this year), but just as likely, could be a total bust.

[azbroncfan]

Whether or not one views him as "overrated" (a rather subjective term), he still has more value to the team (as the team's top tackler and as a locker room leader) than a #34 overall draft pick, who could... maybe... end up being valuable in the future (but probably won't see much, if any, playing time this year), but just as likely, could be a total bust.

I've never said trade him just he isn't as great as the Orangemane makes him. I have said he is probably untradeable due to his cap number anyway and the locker room contributions. As far as the tackle numbers are the hated Gold is right there with him and Champ only has 4 less solo tackles. He will be playing middle LB for Denver come opening day.

[NFLBRONCO]

Whether or not one views him as "overrated" (a rather subjective term), he still has more value to the team (as the team's top tackler and as a locker room leader) than a #34 overall draft pick, who could... maybe... end up being valuable in the future (but probably won't see much, if any, playing time this year), but just as likely, could be a total bust.


Good Points Blueflame

Yes loss of leadership and experience would hurt some but, I think we can find other players to fill that role.

If Denver feels Al is declining and land a (high 2nd) is better then getting absolutely nothing. If we wait too long we will need to release him for cap reasons ala Pryce.

No matter what side your on about Wilson. These are the things that need to be considered.

[Inkana7]

Wilson won't be traded, neither will Bly.

Thread over. Carry on with your normal offseason speculation.

[Blueflame]

I've never said trade him just he isn't as great as the Orangemane makes him. I have said he is probably untradeable due to his cap number anyway and the locker room contributions. As far as the tackle numbers are the hated Gold is right there with him and Champ only has 4 less solo tackles. He will be playing middle LB for Denver come opening day.

My stance is... and has been from the start... that Wilson (known, proven value on and off the field) is more valuable to the team (this season) than a second-round draft pick... even a high one like #34 overall.

As to Gold, yes, he has taken a lot of criticism here on the board, but not from me. I always liked his speed and the only question I had was whether or not he would regain that speed after his injury. Sure, he's a bit undersized, but I'm quite happy to see his tackle numbers so close to Big Al's.

Champ is Champ... an elite NFL player that we're very fortunate to have on our team.

[iforgotmypassword]

gotta keep al, a defense, or better yet, a team, that's all on the same page, throw in a little confidence and you have a scarrrrry thing my fellow computer internet talky board friends

sayings like "the glue that holds this team together" or "the heart of this team" they're not just sayings, they say these things for a reason, besided we could land that middle out of penn state in the 2nd, let al learn him up for a couple years