People - we got bigger problems then terrorism.... WAKE UP !!!

[ZONA]

You know what - take 2 minutes of your precious life to read this message. It aint gonna kill ya. If you don't, it just may kill ya. NO.......in fact, it will kill ya!

An Inconvienent Truth - For those of you who don't know, it's a documentary on Global Warming performed by Al Gore.

Quickly let me just state that I knew of Global Warming, as we all do, but I thought the world's demise was a long time away. I just never new that the REAL (and proven) time table to save earth from catostrophic proportions was less then 50 to 75 years. The HUMAN RACE is what's at stake here. All life on earth is at stake here. We're so concerned about terrorism, or a meteor from space coliding with earth, that we have fell asleep on Global Warming. The biggest enemy of them all. Don't believe me? I dare you to waste 1.5 hours of your life and watch the movie. Watch for yourself how Manhatten, San Fransico and almost the entire state of FLORIDA will be underneath water in under 50 years. Half of Florida will be under water in YOUR lifetime..........guaranteed! I know what you're thinking......that's the alarmist point of view. Yeah, ok. Did you know that there's enough ice in Antartica to raise the sea level by 100 feet? They found a crack so long that 1/3 of it will fall off in less then 50 years, maybe sooner. The crack is 700 feet deep. Oh, and when that goes, it's proven that the entire ice sheet in Greenland and the North Pole combined will be gone before that. People, we can forget talking about what cities will be lost, now we're talking entire countries lost. As the documentary states, you think 100,000 people defecting from one country to another is catostrophic to normal living, wait till MILLIONS of people defect and then add the fact that the resources to feed us shrinks by almost 1/2. And you think China is crowded, in the famous words...."You Aint Seen Nothin Yet". Do I have your attention now? Just one more paragraph and you can get back to your life.

Do you think it ludicris for the American auto companies (you know their names) to sue the state of California, who issued a law that vehicles in their state must achieve in 11 years from now, the same gas mileage as cars in China have today? 11 FRICKEN years. That's what we're up against, that kind of thinking in Washinton. By the way, in case you didn't know, China has the 2nd lowest allowable vehcile CO2 standards (guess who's 1st) and neither of us area any where close to the rest of the world. Yep. The American companies would rather sue California to force them to cancel that law, rather then make a car worth a damn. No wonder these companies are going under while foreign companies like Toyota and Honda are excelling. Did you know that you can't buy an American car in Japan..........they won't pass the smog laws. And everybody is always screaming "Buy American". Ok, we will, once they stop trying to sue our states for trying to have cleaner vehicles. How insane is that?

Please, just rent the movie. I guarantee you will be blown away by what you see. You have never seen anything like it. You may think you have, but my friend, you have not. Trust me. Pictures and recorded video over the last 10 years will absolutely floor you, and I'm not talking about the storms either. Watch it, and see if you're not the next person typing a message to everybody they know.

Thanks for reading.

[OrangeShadow]

there was a good piece on how global warming will take a tole on sports in SI last week, it was quite good.

[ludo21]

Man Bear Pig!!!

"Im super serial.. "

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2b/1006itsmealgore.JPG/150px-1006itsmealgore.JPG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1006itsmealgore.JPG)

[Goobzilla]

I'm still waiting for the killer bees......

[cutthemdown]

we will adapt and survive. That's what life forms do. The earth is warming, we can't stop it, we have to adapt.

[cutthemdown]

I do think we should get rid of drive thru restaraunts, too many cars just sitting there.

[ZONA]

I'm still waiting for the killer bees......

Nothing personal but if you can't see the difference between speculation without proven facts vs undenaiable stats and video, supported by thousands of the top world scientists, then as the movie states.....WAKE UP!

You're just the person that this movie was made for....kinda funny isn't it.

The real shame in all of this is that millions of people like yourself just shrug it off, laugh at it, burry their head like an ostrich. People are always right, they can't fathom the idea that a movie 1.5 hours long can change their entire way of thinking.

[ZONA]

we will adapt and survive. That's what life forms do. The earth is warming, we can't stop it, we have to adapt.

Adapt........give me a break dude. You're talking about life forms evolving and adapting over millions of years. Not the 6+ billion humans, soon to be twice that in 10 years, sharing 1/2 the land, food and drinkable water we have now. Scortching heat, droughts, storms that will destroy entire cities (oh, sorry, that's already happened.......see New Orleans). I guess the 100K people that died last year in record tempuratures adapted pretty good. I guess all the people dying from Aids adapt pretty well to disease too.

Simple minds..............they will be the demise of us all - Jeff Helton

[DBruleU]

So this has more to do about Al Gore than anything else, but it fit's the general topic. What I found funny (aside from the piece itself) is that it came from the paper in Vail. Super Liberal in them parts.

http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20070310/EDITS/70310004&SearchID=73274869726794

To: Al Gore

Subject: Utility Bills

Dear Al:

First off, congrats on the Oscar for “An Inconvenient Truth.’’ I haven’t actually seen the movie, but I did come really close to watching it the other night.

The reason I am writing has to do with your utility bills, which recently were made public by one of those right-wing, global-warming denier groups.

Now, I understand their motivation for releasing your electric and natural gas bills right after the Academy Awards was to embarrass you. And in that regard, it was a cheap shot. But let’s face it, Al, you set yourself up.

I mean, even if you are purchasing some “green power,’’ $1,200 a month for electricity and another $1,080 a month for natural gas is ... well, let me put it this way, Al:

If we start talking about carbon footprints, you’re like Bigfoot.

The major problem, of course, is that one of the three houses you own is a 20-room, 10,000-square-foot Nashville, Tenn., mansion that includes a pool house, a heated pool and gas lamps along the driveway.

It’s all about perception, Al. Ten-thousand square feet is a lot of space for just two people, no matter how long you have been married.

The other thing that sticks out about your electric bill is that half of it is for the pool house and heated pool. What you have to ask yourself about pool water temperature, Al, is this: Is your shrinkage more important than that of the polar icecaps?

Although your credibility has taken a hit here, Al, you can still salvage your reputation if you take some steps aimed at practicing what you preach. (Hey, here’s a thought: You could even make a movie out of it. You could call it “A Really Inconvenient Truth.’’)

Anyway, I thought I would pass along a few of the measures people here at Planet Birkenstock might take if we were in your situation:

Immediately close off a portion of your house — you know, like maybe 7,000 or 8,000 square feet.

Drain the pool for the winter.

Buy a chain saw and a woodstove. (We have a saying up here in New England that cutting your own firewood warms you twice.)

Turn down the thermostat and put on a sweater. No more walking around in your boxers like you are in a production of “Cat on a Hot Tin Roof.’’

Use those squiggly fluorescent bulbs in all your lights. They take awhile to warm up, but that can be a good thing if you are going to be looking in the mirror.

Don’t fall asleep with the television on, so definitely no more Larry King after dinner.
Finally, given that you’ve put on a few, watch yourself in the kitchen.

In particular, avoid using the microwave. Also, don’t stand in front of the fridge with the door open for a half hour looking for the ketchup or something. If you don’t see what you are searching for right off, ask Tipper to find it.

Oh, almost forgot: Get rid of the gas lamps along the driveway.

Where do you think you are living, London?

[Stormontheplains]

The earth is flat, the earth is flat, and this is backed by all the scholars.

[snowspot66]

Can we drop all the pretense of being out to save the world? The world doesn't need us, the world doesn't care about us, the world has been around for over 5 billion years, and when we're gone the world will be around for billions more (or until the sun explodes and vaporizes it).

The Earth warms up and cools down in cycles. Whether this is accelerated by man or not doesn't matter. It would all happen eventually. It's only about maintining our current comfort and quality of living. If humanity dies off I'm pretty sure nobody is going to give a damn what happened to all the fuzzy animals, and that includes the animals.

Now, that doesn't mean I'm not all for using environmentally friendly stuff. Anything good for the environment usually gets a big thumbs up from me. I personally don't want to have a lower comfort of living when im 80. But that said, I'll get my information on the subject from somewhere else. Documentary makers aren't out to relay facts, they are out to tell a story, there is no unbiased documentary. They take hundreds of hours of footage and cram it into an hour or two, giving it their own spin, intended for the most impact.

Have you ever watched a documentary that you didn't agree with? If you did the odds are it was one of three things. It could either be very badly produced, your views are vastly differeing, or you had prior knowledge on the subject allowing you to see through the smoke and mirrors.

A documentary from Al "I use more electricity a month than most houses in a year" Gore just wreaks of bias, half truth, and clever editing. I despise all documetaries with modern political influence for those very reasons.

[cdesignmaster]

You really must not be very old, I'm not old, but I still remember the enviromentalist wackos claiming Global Cooling 30 years ago. Their children are now claiming Global Warming with the same fanaticism.

Hey, did you know that the moon is 1 foot further away from the earth than it was a year ago, it's been happening for years and it DOES effect the ocean tides etc. Oh no, it can't be that the prove increase in solar flares from the sun has anything to do with any possible warming.

Give it a break, man kind CAN NOT destroy the earth!!! Yes, we may mess up the enviroment to kill off some species and possibly mankind itself, i.e. global nuclear war, but believe it or not, the earth will kill mankind off long before mankind can destroy the earth. That **** has been happening for millions of years, unless you're a Christian or Jewish, then it's only been happening for 6000 years and if you are religious, what do you care, you should be looking forward to death on this world to move on to the new world. I didn't mention the other religion because the believe the opposite of the Judeo/Christian belief and this isn't the forum for that discussion.

Here's a thought, the Global Warming conference in Washington, D.C. has been cancelled twice the past month or so due to near record cold spells in Washington. Apparently, the only global warming happens at the ice caps of the North and South Poles cause I damn near saw icicles on my windshield here in Orlando this past winter.

Wanna stop Global Warming, TURN OFF your computer and quit wasting valuable energy sending out emails about Global Warning. Go to sleep early and walk to work with all your fanatic friends, then those of us that chose to drive a vehicle can get to work faster because you nut jobs aren't clogging up the roadways with your SUV's. While you are at it, stop eating meat and become a vegetarian, we all know how cow farts are adding to Global Warning, so you stop eating meat! Then I and the rest of us can watch the price of meat fall that we can have all we want at a decent price.

While you're at it, throw away all your clothes and walk around naked, save the planet, think of all the energy and polution that is used or created in making clothes. Of course, that would mean you'd have to move to Africa, because that about the only place on earth that is warm enough to go without clothes year round, of course, that's an added bonus cause then you fanatics won't be using computers to scream about Global Warming that you are also creating without a thought about reducing your rhetoric.

I really feel sorry for moderate democrats that have these fringe wacho's dictating your leaders policies.

I think it's time for a true 3rd party to develope.

[Bronco Bob]

You really must not be very old, I'm not old, but I still remember the enviromentalist wackos claiming Global Cooling 30 years ago.

30 years ago would be 1976. Oddly enough by then I had already been in the
Navy and out again, in other words an adult, and I don't remember anything
about that. I keep hearing the global warming deniers make this claim, but
for the life of me, I can never find any documents supporting this claim.
Would you care to offer any proof that 30 years ago any legitimate
scientists were making this claim. Or even any of your so called
environmentalist "whackos"? To me it sound like another one of those
urban legends that the deniers like to toss about.

[cdesignmaster]

Adapt........give me a break dude. You're talking about life forms evolving and adapting over millions of years. Not the 6+ billion humans, soon to be twice that in 10 years, sharing 1/2 the land, food and drinkable water we have now. Scortching heat, droughts, storms that will destroy entire cities (oh, sorry, that's already happened.......see New Orleans). I guess the 100K people that died last year in record tempuratures adapted pretty good. I guess all the people dying from Aids adapt pretty well to disease too.

Simple minds..............they will be the demise of us all - Jeff Helton

Jeff Helton is correct and it's simple minds like yours that will be the demise of us all. The ONLY animal on earth that ISN'T regulated by "Survival of the fittest" is the human race. Every other species either dies off (over billions of years many species died off long before humans arrived, so they are not all human's fault) or the species survives by allowing the weakest to be sacraficed. You don't see the herd of Zebras hanging back to protect the weakest Zebra in the herd, hell no, the all run as fast as they can from the predator and when the slowest one gets caught, they all can rest cause the predator has already gotten it's meal.

Hmmm, I was born into a clan in the middle of a desert, I survived. I grew up, met a woman, guess what we did? We made children, there isn't anything else to do in the middle of the desert. If we make 10 children, maybe 1 of them will survive to become an adult. Yeah, it sounds harsh, but it's been happening in the desert for how many thousands of years?

Similar tragedies have been happening on coastlines for thousands of years. Live near a volcano, guess what might happen? I feel for the people in New Orleans as much as anyone, but my god man, everyone knew in advance what was coming and they didn't get out? I got the hell out of Florida after surviving Hurricane Charlie (my first hurricane) when I saw Hurricane Francis heading my way and I'll leave again when the I get the warning the next one is coming. Yeah, I had a car, but the whole while I sat in a 200 mile long traffic jam on the interstate, I never once saw anyone walking or asking for a ride out of town.

Survival of the fittest. If you're too stupid to get out of harms way, then you shouldn't be allowed to reproduce.

[Bronco Bob]

I mean, even if you are purchasing some “green power,’’ $1,200 a month for electricity and another $1,080 a month for natural gas is ... well, let me put it this way, Al:



How much of Al Gore's electricity comes from renewable power sources
such as hydroelectric damns and solar cells vs how much comes from
coal fired power plants? No one ever said you had to stop using electricity.
Just that we need to find alternative ways of making it verses burning
fossil fuels to generate it. Typical right wing tactics, smear the messenger
and ignore the message. Sort of reminds me of their attempt to smear
Nancy Pelosi by claiming SHE wanted a private jet.

[cdesignmaster]

30 years ago would be 1976. Oddly enough by then I had already been in the
Navy and out again, in other words an adult, and I don't remember anything
about that. I keep hearing the global warming deniers make this claim, but
for the life of me, I can never find any documents supporting this claim.
Would you care to offer any proof that 30 years ago any legitimate
scientists were making this claim. Or even any of your so called
environmentalist "whackos"? To me it sound like another one of those
urban legends that the deniers like to toss about.

You may be right Bob, it may have been a little more than 30 years ago, I apologize that I didn't take the time to look at a calender. It was late 60's earlier 70's and I do remember it, even tho I must have been a little younger than I thought. It was before the gasoline panic of the 70's. Of course, I lived in NY at that time, it's cold up there to begin with, so Global Cooling may have meant more to my immediate family at that time, thus may explain why I do have such a vivid memory of it.

[Bronco Bob]

The earth is flat, the earth is flat, and this is backed by all the scholars.

Which scholars would these be? Can you cite any? The educated people,
and that includes all the way back to the ancient Greeks like Pythagoras,
didn't just know the world was round, they could prove it by simple trigonometry.
Plato also taught his students the earth was round.
Aristotle also taught the earth was round and could demonstrate
it by the fact that as you went further north, you could see stars
you couldn't see in the south and stars you could see in the south,
you couldn't see in the north.
Eratosthenes calculated the diameter of the earth and was correct
to within 2%. Ptolemy included longitudes and latitudes in his
books on the earth.
By the time of Pliny the Elder in the 1st century the Earth's spherical shape
was generally acknowledged among the learned in the western world.
His writings remained the basis of European astronomy throughout the Middle Ages.
The shape of the Earth was not only discussed in scholarly works written in Latin;
it was also treated in works written in vernacular languages or dialects and intended
for wider audiences. The Norwegian book Konungs Skuggsjá, from around 1250,
states clearly that the Earth is round - and that it is night on the other side of
the Earth when it is daytime in Norway.
And obviously Columbus knew the world was round in 1492, and the Spanish
queen who funded him, otherwise he wouldn't have went west to try to
get to India instead of east like everyone else was doing.

[BABronco]

You may be right Bob, it may have been a little more than 30 years ago, I apologize that I didn't take the time to look at a calender. It was late 60's earlier 70's and I do remember it, even tho I must have been a little younger than I thought. It was before the gasoline panic of the 70's. Of course, I lived in NY at that time, it's cold up there to begin with, so Global Cooling may have meant more to my immediate family at that time, thus may explain why I do have such a vivid memory of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling

Global cooling in general can refer to a cooling of the Earth; more specifically, it is a theory positing an overall cooling of the Earth's surface and atmosphere along with a posited commencement of glaciation. This theory gained temporary popular attention due to press reporting following a better understanding of ice age cycles and a temporary downward trend of temperatures from the 1940s to the early 1970s. At present, the dominant (consensus) theory amongst scientists is that Earth as a whole is not cooling, but rather is in a period of global warming attributed to human activity.[1]

[Spider]

I'm still waiting for the killer bees......

try being sober ........... http://www.cnn.com/US/9901/14/killer.bees/

[ZONA]

I can see why some people are skeptical - they have the mind set of the person who said "the world is flat so said all the scholars". You just made my point for me dude. The skeptics are the same people as the scholars. I'm wondering, what scientific proof did they have to prove the world was flat? Let me see, I believe they had a telescope and ship and all they ever saw was flatness. A far cry from the technology today. Gimme a break.

If you don't think that carbon emissions get trapped in the hemospheer and causes the suns rays that enter from escaping, which causes global warming, then you're just a blind idiot. There is data to prove it and everbody agrees that is not a "story". Scientists take core samples from ice that is thousands of years old and they can tell, from using isotope technology, how much CO2 was in the air. Kinda funny how the last 70 years of sample show C02 levels sky high, amazingly higher then ever before. Of course the earth heats up and cools down, but of course you wouldn't know, since you haven't seen the movie, that the current C02 levels and average tempurature exceed anything from thousands of years by almost 3 times. I guess it's just a natual phenomena. It couldn't be related to the start of the industrial age when man began to poisen the earth.

Damn - just watch the movie. If you think it's political, just ignore anything you might think is that, and just see the scientific data. If you see the movie and still think it's FOS, then cool. Come here and tell me why. Go ahead, watch it and then come back here and show everybody how smart you are and disprove the hard data. The movie can prove, beyond doubt, what is happening. Satallite images show entire glacier parks GONE. Sorry, but glacier parks with billions and billions of tons of ice don't melt in the summer and come back in the winter like fresh powder on Pikes Peak. Some of the worlds largest lakes are already gone. Damn, just visit a big city and look above you at the brown clouds that never go away. It's not hard to imagine.

[Spider]

You may be right Bob, it may have been a little more than 30 years ago, I apologize that I didn't take the time to look at a calender. It was late 60's earlier 70's and I do remember it, even tho I must have been a little younger than I thought. It was before the gasoline panic of the 70's. Of course, I lived in NY at that time, it's cold up there to begin with, so Global Cooling may have meant more to my immediate family at that time, thus may explain why I do have such a vivid memory of it.

Ha! sure you do ........ but chew on this for awhile .. in the late 70's early 80's twice as much pollution in LA with less population then today ........ if that rate of the 70's and 80's who knows where we would be today .........Problem with Kids today , long on mouth short on ears

[Bronco Bob]

You may be right Bob, it may have been a little more than 30 years ago, I apologize that I didn't take the time to look at a calender. It was late 60's earlier 70's and I do remember it, even tho I must have been a little younger than I thought. It was before the gasoline panic of the 70's. Of course, I lived in NY at that time, it's cold up there to begin with, so Global Cooling may have meant more to my immediate family at that time, thus may explain why I do have such a vivid memory of it.

People also discounted plate tectonics in those days too. I recall my
5th grade science teacher saying that is was just a coincidence that
Africa looked like it could fit into North and South America. Now you
be hard pressed to find a scientist who discounts the theory of plate
tectonics, though as late as the 80's some went to their death beds
insisting the theory was wrong. The point being just because they
got it wrong in the past doesn't mean they aren't right today.
We know more now than we did then, we have research techniques
that weren't even dreamed of then and much more powerful computers.
And the measurements show there is more C02 in the atmosphere.
And radiological measurements show this CO2 is produced by humans
burning fossil fuel. And the models show a definite trend to the earth getting
warmer. So right now the best theory we have is that we are causing
the earth to get warmer by burning fossil fuels, and until a better theory
comes along, we should act on this one.

[cdesignmaster]

How much of Al Gore's electricity comes from renewable power sources
such as hydroelectric damns and solar cells vs how much comes from
coal fired power plants? No one ever said you had to stop using electricity.
Just that we need to find alternative ways of making it verses burning
fossil fuels to generate it. Typical right wing tactics, smear the messenger
and ignore the message. Sort of reminds me of their attempt to smear
Nancy Pelosi by claiming SHE wanted a private jet.

First of all, we all really should do what we can to reduce wasting energy of any type and reduce producing chemicals that polute our planet. It's a good thing and most of us can't afford to just throw away money by leaving our lights on at home while we go to work, so we turn them off before leaving. If I could have afforded to leave the lights on all the time, I wouldn't have been spending so many years following after my children all the time turning the lights off that they left on. I would have left them on.

That being said, if I could have afforded to leave the lights on and not follow after my children, does it make any difference if I was wasting energy depending on how that energy was produced? Coal or "green"? It's still WASTING energy. It takes money and other energy to build those "green" energy producers and the only ones that can currently afford to use those expensive energy sources are those that aren't worried about conserving energy.

BTW, Nancy Pelosi didn't just ask for a private jet, a private jet has been provided for the speaker of the house for many years, she wanted a bigger one to accommodate her friends on cross country trips. She didn't want the same size jets that the previous speakers were allowed, she wanted a larger, more energy using jet.

[Spider]

I do think we should get rid of drive thru restaraunts, too many cars just sitting there.

Ha! I never been stuck in grid lock as bad as I was in 1993 .......Willis draw Bridge in NYC ....... Ship hits the draw bridge 14 hours not moving an inch

[snowspot66]

That's the thing. There is no hard data. Our understanding of things changes rapidly, never mind the fact that it's easy to massage statistics and data. It's all too focused to get a clear picture without taking in the big picture. You ca'nt see the forest for the trees so to speak. Like I said, I'll get my info from other sources, and if it happens to be the same as in some documentary then so be it.

[spdirty]

Man, after 3 damn months of the damn global cooling and snow bull crap, global warming finally kicked in. First time this year I went to work in shorts today, it was nice. Hell, even turned the AC on in my queer loving, gas guzzling, imperialistic american F-250...with fake balls hangin down.

Hell, tomorrow or Thursday I might just enjoy the best of global warming and cooling by going skiing in a Tshirt.

[Spider]

.

BTW, Nancy Pelosi didn't just ask for a private jet, a private jet has been provided for the speaker of the house for many years, she wanted a bigger one to accommodate her friends on cross country trips. She didn't want the same size jets that the previous speakers were allowed, she wanted a larger, more energy using jet.

you are full of shít http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/2007/02/pelosis_big_bir.html

[Spider]

In fact Nancy offered to fly commercial...............Just more bullshít from a right wing nut job

[spdirty]

In fact Nancy offered to fly commercial...............Just more bullshít from a right wing nut job

still too much...should make her ride a bike back and forth if she's so concerned about global warming.

Or Ill be nice and let her drive a Prius or Hybrid back and forth.

[ZONA]

Ha! I never been stuck in grid lock as bad as I was in 1993 .......Willis draw Bridge in NYC ....... Ship hits the draw bridge 14 hours not moving an inch


you guys that chum in with stupid uselss topics not related to the subject totally remind me of the geeky little brats that get on the game servers and just sing stupid lalalalalalala crap non stop. Only intention is to spam the mic and try to get attention. I swear they were either beaten or droped on their heads. Grow up. Read something else if you don't want to participate.

[Spider]

First time this year I went to work in shorts today, it was nice. Hell, even turned the AC on in my queer loving, gas guzzling, imperialistic american F-250...with fake balls hangin down.

Hell, tomorrow or Thursday I might just enjoy the best of global warming and cooling by going skiing in a Tshirt.

may I suggest tighter fitting shorts ;D

[spdirty]

you guys that chum in with stupid uselss topics not related to the subject totally remind me of the geeky little brats that get on the game servers and just sing stupid lalalalalalala crap non stop. Only intention is to spam the mic and try to get attention. I swear they were either beaten or droped on their heads. Grow up. Read something else if you don't want to participate.

My son pooped his pants today...discuss?

[ZONA]

Man, after 3 damn months of the damn global cooling and snow bull crap, global warming finally kicked in. First time this year I went to work in shorts today, it was nice. Hell, even turned the AC on in my queer loving, gas guzzling, imperialistic american F-250...with fake balls hangin down.

Hell, tomorrow or Thursday I might just enjoy the best of global warming and cooling by going skiing in a Tshirt.


No No No - you're not one of those "Truck Nutz" dudes are you? I can forgive you for the old 10MPG gas guzzlin rig, but those queer ass nutz gotta go. I made a post here months ago, a KC fan lives near me had those on his truck and I cut them off. Arrrggggggggggg.

[Spider]

you guys that chum in with stupid uselss topics not related to the subject totally remind me of the geeky little brats that get on the game servers and just sing stupid lalalalalalala crap non stop. Only intention is to spam the mic and try to get attention. I swear they were either beaten or droped on their heads. Grow up. Read something else if you don't want to participate.

you gonna suck what ?

[spdirty]

may I suggest tighter fitting shorts ;D

Naw, love the crooked looks I get from the ninnies.

[Spider]

Naw, love the crooked looks I get from the ninnies.

thats just wrong ....... funny but wrong

[Bronco Bob]

BTW, Nancy Pelosi didn't just ask for a private jet, a private jet has been provided for the speaker of the house for many years, she wanted a bigger one to accommodate her friends on cross country trips. She didn't want the same size jets that the previous speakers were allowed, she wanted a larger, more energy using jet.

Actually she didn't. The idea behind giving her a larger jet was so the
jet could go all the way from Washington DC to California without having
to stop along the way to refill. This was for security reasons, the idea
being the less often the plane had to take of and land, the less likely
a terrorist could attack the plane. But it wasn't her idea for the larger
plane. It was the people planning her security.

[ZONA]

awe cmon guys, I thought the main forum was open to all subjects since it's the offseason.

[ZONA]

Actually she didn't. The idea behind giving her a larger jet was so the
jet could go all the way from Washington DC to California without having
to stop along the way to refill. This was for security reasons, the idea
being the less often the plane had to take of and land, the less likely
a terrorist could attack the plane. But it wasn't her idea for the larger
plane. It was the people planning her security.

Isn't it amazing how people think they really know stuff and they really have no idea. They hear something, don't do any research and then just post crap they have no idea about.

[Broncojef]

Maybe the scientists could get together and give us an accuratew weather forecast for tomorrow before trying to enlighten us on what may happen 10-20 years from now.:thumbs:

[spdirty]

No No No - you're not one of those "Truck Nutz" dudes are you? .

:strong:


I can forgive you for the old 10MPG gas guzzlin rig, .

I get 13.7 mpg...its practically a Hybrid!


but those queer ass nutz gotta go. I made a post here months ago, a KC fan lives near me had those on his truck and I cut them off. Arrrggggggggggg.

See, thats happened to me a few times...what I like to do when I encounter a ninny like this is speed up, cut you off back, and once I'm in front of you I swerve really fast, making my vuluptuous nuts swing back and forth so therefore, you can enjoy the view.;)

[Spider]

awe cmon guys, I thought the main forum was open to all subjects since it's the offseason.

if you took the time to read my post , you would see I bítch slapped all the right wing talking points , from Killer Bees to Pelosi wanting a`bigger jet ........... relax , those that discredit Global warming know they are full of shít or inbred

[Bronco Bob]

still too much...should make her ride a bike back and forth if she's so concerned about global warming.

Or Ill be nice and let her drive a Prius or Hybrid back and forth.

Why single Nancy out? Why not make Dubya and Dickey take a Prius too?

I'd imagine Dubya's 747 takes a lot more fuel than the biggest plane Nancy
was going to get.

[cdesignmaster]

People also discounted plate tectonics in those days too. I recall my
5th grade science teacher saying that is was just a coincidence that
Africa looked like it could fit into North and South America. Now you
be hard pressed to find a scientist who discounts the theory of plate
tectonics, though as late as the 80's some went to their death beds
insisting the theory was wrong. The point being just because they
got it wrong in the past doesn't mean they aren't right today.
We know more now than we did then, we have research techniques
that weren't even dreamed of then and much more powerful computers.
And the measurements show there is more C02 in the atmosphere.
And radiological measurements show this CO2 is produced by humans
burning fossil fuel. And the models show a definite trend to the earth getting
warmer. So right now the best theory we have is that we are causing
the earth to get warmer by burning fossil fuels, and until a better theory
comes along, we should act on this one.

Good point, I don't deny that humans aren't producing CO2 by burning fossil fuel. That's a given.

Giving your statement, "until a better theory comes along, we should act on this one." Ok, let's try out your theory 30+ years ago when "science" said it was Global Cooling. We ALL acted on that theory and began driving cars excessively to create CO2 to STOP Global Cooling. It worked. Or was "science" wrong and we all over reacted and now we have Global Warming? Thus if the enviromentalist wackos back then had listened to the intelligent reasoning of the desenters of their time, you and I wouldn't be disagreeing today, because those wackos wanted us to warm up the planet.

Get serious. The earth knows what it's doing. We may not, but it does. It opens the ozone when it needs to release what it needs to release and closes it when it needs to close it. I seriously doubt that the earth is really all that concerned about human life as much as life in general. The earth has wiped out life forms for millions of years and it'll do it to mankind when it's tired of playing with us.

For the record, there are more trees on the earth today, than there were in 1900. Before you ask, the answer is quite simple. Humans put out forest fires that use to wipe out whole forests before. Of course, the earth allowed forest to regenerate, but that could take a hundred years in the Redwood forest area.

As American's, we do waste too much, but the population explosion that is consuming the eco-system is happening in China, India and other newly developing countries.

[ZONA]

Maybe the scientists could get together and give us an accuratew weather forecast for tomorrow before trying to enlighten us on what may happen 10-20 years from now.:thumbs:

Yeah - forecasting long term is ridiculous. A marketing company doing research on consumer needs 20 years down the line is uselss, they only need to predict how many sales will be had tomorrow. Duh, my name is luey.

[spdirty]

Why single Nancy out? Why not make Dubya and Dickey take a Prius too?

I'd imagine Dubya's 747 takes a lot more fuel than the biggest plane Nancy
was going to get.

hell yeah! If they're gonna lecture us about our energy usage, they should take the lead! Although I haven't heard Cheney say anything about it, so he is exempt, unless he starts lecturing us.

[Bronco Bob]

Maybe the scientists could get together and give us an accuratew weather forecast for tomorrow before trying to enlighten us on what may happen 10-20 years from now.:thumbs:

Seems like they have been very accurate where I live for the past few days.

Besides you are confusing meteorology with climatology.

That's like saying if paleontologists know so much about evolution,
why haven't they found a cure for the cold?

Two different fields of research.

[Spider]

Good point, I don't deny that humans aren't producing CO2 by burning fossil fuel. That's a given.

Giving your statement, "until a better theory comes along, we should act on this one." Ok, let's try out your theory 30+ years ago when "science" said it was Global Cooling. We ALL acted on that theory and began driving cars excessively to create CO2 to STOP Global Cooling. It worked. Or was "science" wrong and we all over reacted and now we have Global Warming? Thus if the enviromentalist wackos back then had listened to the intelligent reasoning of the desenters of their time, you and I wouldn't be disagreeing today, because those wackos wanted us to warm up the planet.

Get serious. The earth knows what it's doing. We may not, but it does. It opens the ozone when it needs to release what it needs to release and closes it when it needs to close it. I seriously doubt that the earth is really all that concerned about human life as much as life in general. The earth has wiped out life forms for millions of years and it'll do it to mankind when it's tired of playing with us.

For the record, there are more trees on the earth today, than there were in 1900. Before you ask, the answer is quite simple. Humans put out forest fires that use to wipe out whole forests before. Of course, the earth allowed forest to regenerate, but that could take a hundred years in the Redwood forest area.

As American's, we do waste too much, but the population explosion that is consuming the eco-system is happening in China, India and other newly developing countries.

you dont know your ass from a hole in the ground , you didnt even know about the pollution in LA , ****ed up the report about Nancy and the Jet .....all we have to do is Burn coal , go Nuke , wind , and solar power , we will go along ways in cutting down on CO2

[ZONA]

Good point, I don't deny that humans aren't producing CO2 by burning fossil fuel. That's a given.

Giving your statement, "until a better theory comes along, we should act on this one." Ok, let's try out your theory 30+ years ago when "science" said it was Global Cooling. We ALL acted on that theory and began driving cars excessively to create CO2 to STOP Global Cooling. It worked. Or was "science" wrong and we all over reacted and now we have Global Warming? Thus if the enviromentalist wackos back then had listened to the intelligent reasoning of the desenters of their time, you and I wouldn't be disagreeing today, because those wackos wanted us to warm up the planet.

Get serious. The earth knows what it's doing. We may not, but it does. It opens the ozone when it needs to release what it needs to release and closes it when it needs to close it. I seriously doubt that the earth is really all that concerned about human life as much as life in general. The earth has wiped out life forms for millions of years and it'll do it to mankind when it's tired of playing with us.

For the record, there are more trees on the earth today, than there were in 1900. Before you ask, the answer is quite simple. Humans put out forest fires that use to wipe out whole forests before. Of course, the earth allowed forest to regenerate, but that could take a hundred years in the Redwood forest area.

As American's, we do waste too much, but the population explosion that is consuming the eco-system is happening in China, India and other newly developing countries.

At least you offer an intellegent debate, you sound like you counter debate and that's how things get solved actually. But the last time I checked, there was no doorway in the atmospheer that the earth can open to let out the excess CO2. It's proven that it can't. Why else would there be levels recorded so high? The earth knows what it's doing? Yeah, so did the chicken crossing the road and how did that end up?

[Spider]

oh and about the title of this thread ........Terrorist are here and now , lets kick their ass , then deal with other problems ........... and No Iraq isnt part of the war on terror .....Somewhere in Pakistan there is a 6-5 Arab that needs a good ass kicking

[Spider]

At least you offer an intellegent debate, you sound like you counter debate and that's how things get solved actually. But the last time I checked, there was no doorway in the atmospheer that the earth can open to let out the excess CO2. It's proven that it can't. Why else would there be levels recorded so high? The earth knows what it's doing? Yeah, so did the chicken crossing the road and how did that end up?

He escaped Col Sanders ..........

[ZONA]

oh and about the title of this thread ........Terrorist are here and now , lets kick their ass , then deal with other problems ........... and No Iraq isnt part of the war on terror .....Somewhere in Pakistan there is a 6-5 Arab that needs a good ass kicking


I agree totally dude. I'd like to hang Osama from the tree in my back yard. But that doesn't mean we need to not try and cure disease, feed the hungry, develope technology, etc.

[cdesignmaster]

if you took the time to read my post , you would see I bítch slapped all the right wing talking points , from Killer Bees to Pelosi wanting a`bigger jet ........... relax , those that discredit Global warming know they are full of shít or inbred

Alert!!! Pelosi is a woman, I know she looks like a man. Liberal Trucker = ******.

[Spider]

I agree totally dude. I'd like to hang Osama from the tree in my back yard. But that doesn't mean we need to not try and cure disease, feed the hungry, develope technology, etc.

of course we do , but right now we need to sink more money into helping our Vets , really securing our boarders , then deal with those things you mentioned ....... Man Bush needs his ass kicked for what he did to us ........

[Spider]

Alert!!! Pelosi is a woman, I know she looks like a man. Liberal Trucker = ******.

we will rank this with the Bullshít you posted about the plane and everything else .......... Just another idiot thinking he has a clue

[Spider]

Alert!!! Pelosi is a woman, I know she looks like a man. Liberal Trucker = ******.

I noticed your punk ass skipped right over the truth about Pelosi ......... I wonder why

[Bronco Bob]

Giving your statement, "until a better theory comes along, we should act on this one." Ok, let's try out your theory 30+ years ago when "science" said it was Global Cooling. We ALL acted on that theory and began driving cars excessively to create CO2 to STOP Global Cooling. It worked. Or was "science" wrong and we all over reacted and now we have Global Warming? Thus if the enviromentalist wackos back then had listened to the intelligent reasoning of the desenters of their time, you and I wouldn't be disagreeing today, because those wackos wanted us to warm up the planet.



You are acting as if the majority of scientists were in agreement on global cooling.
There was never any consensis. Just as many at that time thought
the earth was getting warmer. Most just didn't know one way or the other.
Most of the hysterical claims of global cooling can be traced back to a 1975
Newsweek article. Newsweek is hardly the authority on matters of science.
Like I said, we know more now than we did then. And the majority of
scientists are now on the side of global warming. You'd be hard pressed
to find any that think the earth is getting colder.

[ZONA]

of course we do , but right now we need to sink more money into helping our Vets , really securing our boarders , then deal with those things you mentioned ....... Man Bush needs his ass kicked for what he did to us ........


I've tried to do my best over the years in voting for who I thought was right for president and I've voted for both parties before. But Bush jr has got to be one of the dumbest people ever. He cheated his way into the position and hasn't done jack yet but lead us into another vietnam. I agree we need to fight terrorism and I agree with going into Iraq but how we went in was BS. WMD's......where? Just say, I hate Sadam and I want to finish why my dad couldn't.

[Spider]

I've tried to do my best over the years in voting for who I thought was right for president and I've voted for both parties before. But Bush jr has got to be one of the dumbest people ever. He cheated his way into the position and hasn't done jack yet but lead us into another vietnam. I agree we need to fight terrorism and I agree with going into Iraq but how we went in was BS. WMD's......where? Just say, I hate Sadam and I want to finish why my dad couldn't.

agreed , I turned on Bush when he failed to nail Bin Laden ......... I did support him up till then

[Bronco Bob]

Alert!!! Pelosi is a woman, I know she looks like a man. Liberal Trucker = ******.

If Pelosi looks like a man, you must have a lot of candy-assed looking men
where you live.

[Spider]

If Pelosi looks like a man, you must have a lot of candy-assed looking men
where you live.

I just figured his Daddy looked a lot like Pelosi

[Stormontheplains]

Bronco Bob, is global warming in your opinion proved beyond a reasonable doubt? I am not inbred or an idiot, I still doubt the scientific conclusions. One more question since your old, did you believe more than one man shot kenedy?

[Bronco Bob]

Bronco Bob, is global warming in your opinion proved beyond a reasonable doubt?

Science doesn't work like a court of law. There is no proof atoms exist, it's
not like we can see them or hold them in our hands. But the majority
of scientific evidence shows atoms exist. Likewise the majority of
evidence indicates that CO2 is increasing in the atmosphere.
Another piece of evidence is the oceans are becoming more acidic
And radiological evidence shows that the majority of CO2 increase
contains carbon isotope ratios consistant with those from fossil fuels
rather than from sources such as volcanoes. And temperature
measurements from a multitude of sources show the climate is
warming. So is it reasonable to conclude that burning fossil fuels
is causing this?




[QUOTE] One more question since your old, did you believe more than one man shot kenedy?

No, I have seen no convincing evidence that anyone but Oswald fired
the two shots that hit Kennedy. Look, Oswald was an excellent shot,
when Oswald was in the Marines, Oswald earned the Sharpshooter weapons qualification badge with a score of 212 out of 250 targets, average or slightly above average for a Marine, and far above average judged by civilian standards.

[Spider]

Science doesn't work like a court of law. There is no proof atoms exist, it's
not like we can see them or hold them in our hands. But the majority
of scientific evidence shows atoms exist. Likewise the majority of
evidence indicates that CO2 is increasing in the atmosphere.
Another piece of evidence is the oceans are becoming more acidic
And radiological evidence shows that the majority of CO2 increase
contains carbon isotope ratios consistant with those from fossil fuels
rather than from sources such as volcanoes. And temperature
measurements from a multitude of sources show the climate is
warming. So is it reasonable to conclude that burning fossil fuels
is causing this?
well I still believe Global warming is part of natural cycle , but we could be speeding it along .......







No, I have seen no convincing evidence that anyone but Oswald fired
the two shots that hit Kennedy. Look, Oswald was an excellent shot,
when Oswald was in the Marines, Oswald earned the Sharpshooter weapons qualification badge with a score of 212 out of 250 targets, average or slightly above average for a Marine, and far above average judged by civilian standards.
you believe the magic bullet theory ?`

[Bronco Bob]

you believe the magic bullet theory ?`

No.

[sisterhellfyre]

30 years ago would be 1976. Oddly enough by then I had already been in the Navy and out again, in other words an adult, and I don't remember anything about that. I keep hearing the global warming deniers make this claim, but for the life of me, I can never find any documents supporting this claim.

I was in high school in '76... I don't remember hearing much back then about global cooling, but I do remember that another big enviro-scare was the "population bomb." I think that was even the title of a book on the subject by Paul Ehrlich. Came out in 1968, and predicted all kinds of bad things by the year 2000.

So far, that one has proved to be a dud too.

Regards,
m.

[The Lone Bolt]

Well, I hate to sound blase about global warming but I'm convinced that the technology to solve this problem will be around long before 70 years from now. Read The Singularity is Near by Ray Kurzweil for details: http://books.google.com/books?id=88U6hdUi6D0C&dq=the+singularity+is+near&psp=1

As computer processing power continues to increase exponentially over the next couple of decades (and probably beyond) we can expect some startling technological breakthroughs.

Also, the internal combustion engine (ICE) is on the way out. Meet the Phoenix Motorcars SUT: http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/

This truck has all the features of a conventional ICE vehicle, but uses a battery that fully charges in ten minutes and give the Phoenix SUT a range of about 130 miles on a single charge. It also has a top speed of 100 MPH with four passengers and a full load. Phoenix is in the process of making deals to sell these SUTs to utilities and will start selling the SUT and an SUV to the general public next year (with an improved battery pack that will cost the same and also recharge in 10 mintues but have a 250 mile range). Price: $45,000

And ZAP motorcars is preparing their own SUV for next year with a 350 mile range, a top speed of 155 MPH, and 10 minute recharge time: http://www.slashgear.com/zap-x-suv-is-644bhp-electric-monster-303661.php

And the battery technology, like all other technologies, will become better and cheaper in time. My bet for the next generation is the MIT ultracapacitor: http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2006/batteries-0208.html

In ten years electric cars will be superior to ICE cars in every way. They will cost less, require less maintenance, will last longer, be cheaper to repair, will be quieter, non-polluting, safer, and provide better performance. Kiss your internal combustion engine goodbye.8')

Furthermore, solar and wind generating technology is finally becoming competative with fossil fuels, and most physicists agree that clean, inexpensive fusion power will be here within 40 years.

[bendog]

Oh thank God we're back to global. I thought we were on to gay marriage again. ecccck

[Stormontheplains]

Nobody has told me yet how in the hell we farm without ICE. How do I get to a center pivot in a wet field on a battery. To me if you live in a town of more than 30,000 you should be required to drive an electric car without the ability to own a gun, kill two birds with one stone. Kansas could be the columbia of the ICE and guns, that would be awsome!!!!!!!!!!!

[RaiderH8r]

Dude, I want the two minutes of my precious life back. My carbon footprint is next to nil. I've done my part and I'm not going to beat people up to make them do theirs. AlGore can eat me, I'm greener than he is. I'm greener than most do gooder hippies. I hate do gooder hippies. AlGore needs to lower his energy consumption considerably and shrink his sizeable carbon footprint and drink a healthy dose of shut the **** up.

All that said, I'm not convinced the earth isn't going through a natural warming cycle. But, whatever, pass laws and tell me how I HAVE to live green. My precious life...blah blah blah. There, now I've taken two minutes of your precious life.

[Dudeskey]

Nobody has told me yet how in the hell we farm without ICE. How do I get to a center pivot in a wet field on a battery. To me if you live in a town of more than 30,000 you should be required to drive an electric car without the ability to own a gun, kill two birds with one stone. Kansas could be the columbia of the ICE and guns, that would be awsome!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL @ the ICE & guns

Starting in the big cities on "greening up" personal vehicles would be a better way to go... after all that is where most of the CO pollution is. Heavy equipment, Trucking & rail would have to wait... a looooong time.

[Stormontheplains]

Sorry Urinal, I grew up in a town of 1500, so 30k is a big town to me.

One question on methane to the experts, why could we not put collection ponds at hog farms to run generators? To me there are enough animals that we could provide enough power to make up for at least one coal burning plant. The product is free, which would help pay off the gen's quickley, plus it would keep the waste out the water table. I am not genius or liberal, but I believe things like this would help green the USA and not cause problems.

[Garcia Bronco]

Science doesn't work like a court of law. There is no proof atoms exist, it's
not like we can see them or hold them in our hands. But the majority
of scientific evidence shows atoms exist. Likewise the majority of
evidence indicates that CO2 is increasing in the atmosphere.
Another piece of evidence is the oceans are becoming more acidic
And radiological evidence shows that the majority of CO2 increase
contains carbon isotope ratios consistant with those from fossil fuels
rather than from sources such as volcanoes. And temperature
measurements from a multitude of sources show the climate is
warming. So is it reasonable to conclude that burning fossil fuels
is causing this?

[QUOTE]

Actually...they can see subatomic particals.


Fossil fuels are not the only thing that releases CO2...you cannot talk about eliminating/reducing one and not others.


No, I have seen no convincing evidence that anyone but Oswald fired
the two shots that hit Kennedy. Look, Oswald was an excellent shot,
when Oswald was in the Marines, Oswald earned the Sharpshooter weapons qualification badge with a score of 212 out of 250 targets, average or slightly above average for a Marine, and far above average judged by civilian standards.

[55CrushEm]

There is no proof atoms exist, it's
not like we can see them or hold them in our hands.

Uh huh....Actually, there is an abundance of evidence that atoms exist.....and yes, we can even "see" them.......not with an optical microscope, but with an electron microscope.....oh yeah, and the first one was developed back in the 1930's.

[Stormontheplains]

Uh huh....Actually, there is an abundance of evidence that atoms exist.....and yes, we can even "see" them.......not with an optical microscope, but with an electron microscope.....oh yeah, and the first one was developed back in the 1930's.

Hince the Atomic Bomb!!!!!!!!!!!Booya!

[Bronco Bob]

I was in high school in '76... I don't remember hearing much back then about global cooling, but I do remember that another big enviro-scare was the "population bomb." I think that was even the title of a book on the subject by Paul Ehrlich. Came out in 1968, and predicted all kinds of bad things by the year 2000.

So far, that one has proved to be a dud too.

Regards,
m.

And maybe it didn't happen because countries like China took active steps
to limit their population growth. As did many of the industrialized countries.
And maybe people saw that more food would be needed to prevent the
starvation the book predicted and took steps to improve agriculture which
led to the "green revolution" so there would be enough food.
It's sort of silly to ignore the fact that people tooks steps to deal with
uncontrolled population and limited food supplies and then claim
that nothing came of the predictions. It's like yelling get out of the
way of the bus or you'll get killed, and after the person gets out of
the way of the bus, people laugh at you and deny the bus would have
killed him because he is still alive.
That's sort of the whole point of warning about global warming, so things
can be done so the predictions don't happen.

[Bronco Bob]

Uh huh....Actually, there is an abundance of evidence that atoms exist.....and yes, we can even "see" them.......not with an optical microscope, but with an electron microscope.....oh yeah, and the first one was developed back in the 1930's.

I think you missed the point. All we have to go on that atoms exist is the evidence.
All we have to go on that global warming is happening is the evidence.
The same science that shows atoms exist is the science that shows global
warming is happening.

[55CrushEm]

I think you missed the point. All we have to go on that atoms exist is the evidence.
All we have to go on that global warming is happening is the evidence.
The same science that shows atoms exist is the science that shows global
warming is happening.

Yes, the earth is going through a warming phase.....

But what I fould interesting in a National Geographic special I watched a few years ago, stated very simply that the earth warms and cools in cycles.....these cycles typically range from 25-30 years. And yes, back in the late 70's, many of the same scientists that are now predicting doom from global warming, were then saying that we were headed for another Ice Age.

During these 25-30 year cycles, the polar ice caps slowly contract (warming), and slowly expand (cooling).....back and forth, just like that.

Now, we can argue all day about what is the BIGGEST contributor to global warming, and yes, man is most certainly a contributor.....but some scientists will say one unusually large volcanic eruption will belch as much greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, as all the SUV's in America could in 5 years. In other words, the earth itself, contributes to its own warming/cooling cycles.....

Which leads me to think....how much did the 1980 Mt. St. Helens' eruption contribute to the warming we are experiencing today?.....Not sure, but I'd have to look it up. Again, the point being, there are many factors that contribute to global warming (and cooling).....many of which are beyond the control of man.

[Bronco Bob]

Yes, the earth is going through a warming phase.....

But what I fould interesting in a National Geographic special I watched a few years ago, stated very simply that the earth warms and cools in cycles.....these cycles typically range from 25-30 years.

So why do you think every legitimate climate scientist isn't aware of this
and haven't factored it into their research?
Are they stupid? Do you think they have some sort of agenda?
And why is it that each time it warms, the warmest point is warmer
than the previous warm point.




And yes, back in the late 70's, many of the same scientists that are now predicting doom from global warming, were then saying that we were headed for another Ice Age.

Are you sure it was the same scientists? Because even in the 70's there were
some scientists concerned about CO2 effects. At the time there was concern
about aerosols in the air, which do indeed make the earth colder, and part of
the cooling trend seen in the 40's through the 60's was indeed caused by
these aerosols. So it was seen that the climate could go either way,
get warmer because of more CO2, or get colder because of more aerosols.

But with the Clean Air Act which passed in the 60's, ironically many of these
aerosols have been eliminated from the air, and temperatures have gone
back to the upward trend of rising temperatures. (No, we don't want to
start polluting the air again to solve global warming.

See below for a chart showing the temperature trend for the last 140 years.
You will see that there are indeed rises and falls in temperature. Including
a major drop that lasted from 1940 to 1960. But you'll see that it has
been more than made up for since. By 1980 we were back to the peak
we were at in 1940.


During these 25-30 year cycles, the polar ice caps slowly contract (warming), and slowly expand (cooling).....back and forth, just like that.

Now, we can argue all day about what is the BIGGEST contributor to global warming, and yes, man is most certainly a contributor.....but some scientists will say one unusually large volcanic eruption will belch as much greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, as all the SUV's in America could in 5 years. In other words, the earth itself, contributes to its own warming/cooling cycles.....

Which leads me to think....how much did the 1980 Mt. St. Helens' eruption contribute to the warming we are experiencing today?.....Not sure, but I'd have to look it up. Again, the point being, there are many factors that contribute to global warming (and cooling).....many of which are beyond the control of man.

The deal with volcanoes is that the ash and sulphates they throw into the
air actually makes the earth COLDER. Some major eruptions have resulted
in there being no summer that year and sometimes the following years,
with snow falling even in July and August. For example
the 5 April – 15 April 1815 volcanic eruptions of Mount Tambora resulted
in May of 1816, in frost killing off most of the crops that had been planted,
and in June two large snowstorms in eastern Canada and New England
resulted in many human deaths. Nearly a foot of snow was observed in
Quebec City in early June. In July and August, lake and river ice were
observed as far south as Pennsylvania. Rapid, dramatic temperature swings
were common, with temperatures sometimes reverting from normal or
above-normal summer temperatures as high as 95 °F to near-freezing within hours.
Again you have to ask yourself why nearly every scientist studying the
climate isn't taking this into consideration? Are they stupid? Do they
have some sort of hidden agenda? And why is it that many of the
scientists disputing that humans are causing global warming are
associated with oil and coal companies.

[Bronco Bob]

Now, we can argue all day about what is the BIGGEST contributor to global warming, and yes, man is most certainly a contributor.....but some scientists will say one unusually large volcanic eruption will belch as much greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, as all the SUV's in America could in 5 years. In other words, the earth itself, contributes to its own warming/cooling cycles.....

Which leads me to think....how much did the 1980 Mt. St. Helens' eruption contribute to the warming we are experiencing today?.....Not sure, but I'd have to look it up. Again, the point being, there are many factors that contribute to global warming (and cooling).....many of which are beyond the control of man.

More on volcanoes and their effect on the earth's climate:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/05/current-volcanic-activity-and-climate/

[Stormontheplains]

If greenhouse warming were happening, then scientists predict that the troposphere (the layer of the earth's atmosphere roughly 10-15km above us) should heat up faster than the surface of the planet, but data collected from satellites and weather balloons doesn't seem to support this.

New evidence shows that that as the radiation coming from the sun varies (and sun-spot activity is one way of monitoring this) the earth seems to heat up or cool down. Solar activity very precisely matches the plot of temperature change over the last 100 years. It correlates well with the anomalous post-war temperature dip, when global carbon dioxide levels were rising.

In fact, what is known of solar activity over the last several hundred years correlates very well with temperature. This is what some scientists are beginning to believe causes climate change. Others feel that solar activity only explains the fine details of temperature change.

When solar activity is high, there is an increase in solar wind and this has the effect of reducing the amount of cosmic radiation which reaches Earth.
When less cosmic radiation reaches Earth, fewer clouds form and the full effects of the sun's radiation heats the planet.

[Bronco Bob]

If greenhouse warming were happening, then scientists predict that the troposphere (the layer of the earth's atmosphere roughly 10-15km above us) should heat up faster than the surface of the planet, but data collected from satellites and weather balloons doesn't seem to support this.

You'd think it would anyway. And, surprise, it does! Previously reported
discrepancies between the amount of warming near the surface and higher in
the atmosphere have been used to challenge the reliability of climate models
and the reality of human induced global warming. Specifically, surface data
showed substantial global-average warming, while early versions of satellite
and radiosonde data showed little or no warming above the surface. This
significant discrepancy no longer exists because errors in the satellite and
radiosonde data have been identified and corrected. New data sets have also
been developed that do not show such discrepancies. See page 6

http://www.ipcc.ch/SPM2feb07.pdf





New evidence shows that that as the radiation coming from the sun varies (and sun-spot activity is one way of monitoring this) the earth seems to heat up or cool down. Solar activity very precisely matches the plot of temperature change over the last 100 years. It correlates well with the anomalous post-war temperature dip, when global carbon dioxide levels were rising.


In fact, what is known of solar activity over the last several hundred years correlates very well with temperature. This is what some scientists are beginning to believe causes climate change. Others feel that solar activity only explains the fine details of temperature change.

When solar activity is high, there is an increase in solar wind and this has the effect of reducing the amount of cosmic radiation which reaches Earth.
When less cosmic radiation reaches Earth, fewer clouds form and the full effects of the sun's radiation heats the planet.

Turns out the precisely matching trends in solar data by Lassen and
Friis-Christensen may not have been as precise as first thought.

http://www.realclimate.org/damon&laut_2004.pdf