911 Commission timeline a fabrication

[mhgaffney]

According to the 911 Commission Report (p. 33), which is the official narrative about what happened on September 11, 2001, the pentagon strike occurred at 9:37 AM.

But hard evidence refutes this official claim. A photo posted by the Smithsonian (below) shows that the clock at the pentagon heliport stopped at 9:32 AM, five minutes earlier.

Furthermore, a US Navy web site shows a pentagon clock frozen at the same time, 9:32 AM.
http://www.news.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=2480

Surely this was the time of the strike. Why then the disparity?

In a forthcoming post I will explain this discrepancy. I may as well tell you right now that the timeline in the 911 Commission Report is a fabrication -- a lie -- designed to conceal evidence, which, if revealed, would show that 911 was an inside job.

Stay tuned! MHG

[Bronco Bob]

In the building I work in some are as much as an hour off. There is some
odd central control that never seems to work right. Sometime the hands
will just starting spinning around aimlessly. We don't even use those
clocks, we have battery powered clocks that we use. I just use my
wristwatch that I set to http://www.time.gov/
Maybe those same sort of clocks were in the Pentagon?

[mhgaffney]

In the building I work in some are as much as an hour off. There is some
odd central control that never seems to work right. Sometime the hands
will just starting spinning around aimlessly. We don't even use those
clocks, we have battery powered clocks that we use. I just use my
wristwatch that I set to http://www.time.gov/
Maybe those same sort of clocks were in the Pentagon?

Oh come on now Bob.

Anyone familiar with the US military knows what a stickler they are for being on time. Both of those clocks were knocked off the wall and broken at the same point in time. They agree within seconds. If you look closely at one of them you will see the broken glass.

It doesn't take an advanced degree to draw the only possible conclusion. The official timeline is wrong. The question is: Why?

That's what I will answer --- soon!

[Bronco Bob]

Oh come on now Bob.

Anyone familiar with the US military knows what a stickler they are for being on time. Both of those clocks were knocked off the wall and broken at the same point in time. They agree within seconds. If you look closely at one of them you will see the broken glass.


As far as the two clocks showing the exact same time, all that could
mean is they were both controlled by the same (inaccurate) controller.
We are sticklers for time where I work too. Things have to start
on the hour and end on the hour, each hour, all day. That's why we put
up the battery powered clock and have a regular schedule for changing
the batteries to make sure the clocks have fresh batteries.

[Bronco Bob]

Understand, I'm not saying you might not be right. All I'm doing is trying to
provide alternative explanations. Playing Devil's Advocate. Giving you a
shave with Occam's Razor.

[elsid13]

Oh come on now Bob.

Anyone familiar with the US military knows what a stickler they are for being on time. Both of those clocks were knocked off the wall and broken at the same point in time. They agree within seconds. If you look closely at one of them you will see the broken glass.

It doesn't take an advanced degree to draw the only possible conclusion. The official timeline is wrong. The question is: Why?

That's what I will answer --- soon!

Actually the clocks are f'ed all over the pentagon and other military installations. The clock on my computer is 5 minutes slower the time on my cell phone, which 4 minutes behind my VOIP phone, which is a minute ahead of the clock on the wall . IT BECAUSE HUMAN SET THE DARN THINGS. Please go find a new hobby, like tracking the migration of ducks.

[orangeatheist]

When you post your explanation, be sure to include:

1.) Where the clocks were getting their time. Be sure to uncover if there was some sort of centralized network time server or something similar involved. If there was a centralized time source, please provide the time this source was set to and if that source ever drifted and then self-corrected (as my own PC does at work; or as the clocks in my schools used to do). If they were manually set, please account for the near identical time in two clocks set by hand.

2.) What did the other clocks at the Pentagon read?

3.) Where did the commission report get its information to pinpoint the official time it assigns.

[elsid13]

When you post your explanation, be sure to include:

1.) Where the clocks were getting their time. Be sure to uncover if there was some sort of centralized network time server or something similar involved. If there was a centralized time source, please provide the time this source was set to and if that source ever drifted and then self-corrected (as my own PC does at work; or as the clocks in my schools used to do). If they were manually set, please account for the near identical time in two clocks set by hand.

2.) What did the other clocks at the Pentagon read?

3.) Where did the commission report get its information to pinpoint the official time it assigns.

He also needs to check and ensure that some ET wasn't ****ing around with the space time continuum.

[W*GS]

My father-in-law's ex-neighbor's brother used to work for NASA, and he had proof that the moon landings were faked. It all started with differences in the readings of the O2 concentration in the Apollo capsule "accident" that killed three astronauts.

Interested, gaffney?

(I'm just curious as to the inverted pyramid of proof that gaffney will try to build that starts with an alleged 5-minute "discrepancy" in the time that Flight 77 struck the Pentagon and ends with 9/11 being an inside job. Ought to be as "interesting" as the rest of his whackitude...)

[elsid13]

My father-in-law's ex-neighbor's brother used to work for NASA, and he had proof that the moon landings were faked. It all started with differences in the readings of the O2 concentration in the Apollo capsule "accident" that killed three astronauts.

Interested, gaffney?

(I'm just curious as to the inverted pyramid of proof that gaffney will try to build that starts with an alleged 5-minute "discrepancy" in the time that Flight 77 struck the Pentagon and ends with 9/11 being an inside job. Ought to be as "interesting" as the rest of his whackitude...)

Actually I have ex cousin that knew someone that was Arctic explorer that that had proof that the no iceberg was broke away for the ice self the month the Titanic suck. It was completely faked for Hollywood.

[REB]

Honestly dude. Seek professional help.

Oh btw, Elvis is still alive! He lives in my basement :)

[elsid13]

interesting question, Who would rather have living in your basement - Fat Elvis or Bobo???

[REB]

Fat Elvis. At least he would just be passed out most of the time. Bobo would probably make quite a mess fapping to barnyard porn.

[Spider]

Fat Elvis .........cost me a shítload to feed , but he still could sing up to the end ........ if you believed he did die ......personally I think Elvis is alive and works at a Wal Mart in Kalamazoo Mi.

[mhgaffney]

Fat Elvis .........cost me a shítload to feed , but he still could sing up to the end ........ if you believed he did die ......personally I think Elvis is alive and works at a Wal Mart in Kalamazoo Mi.

So, it slips out...

Spider's been truckin' for Wal Mart all along.

I knew it.

[BABronco]

So, it slips out...

Spider's been truckin' for Wal Mart all along.

I knew it.

So, its obvious. Somebody here belongs in a loony bin. Anybody wanna take any guesses? I'll give you guys a hint okay? Ready? The name starts with a M ends with a y and has a letters hgaffne in the middle. Anybody know?

[Spider]

So, it slips out...

Spider's been truckin' for Wal Mart all along.

I knew it.

to the one person that makes Norman bates look sane ....... you dont see trucks like this pulling for WALMART http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=575&dateline=1168368648

[mhgaffney]

to the one person that makes Norman bates look sane ....... you dont see trucks like this pulling for WALMART http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=575&dateline=1168368648

Wassa matter?

You can't take a joke?

You have to get down on the same mean and nasty level with all the other jerks on this thread?

Loosen up. And lift yourself up.

You will thank me -- one day -- for what I've been doing on this board.

Don't you understand that it's the reactionary bastards, retro thinkers and knee jerks on this board who are nuts -- not me. The problem is their constipated world view. If we had time for a less provocative approach I would follow that.

But time is very short. A few weeks ago the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists moved the doomsday clock up to 5 til midnight. That about says it all.

The only chance to turn the ship of state around at this very late hour is to shove reality into the faces of these clowns. And everyone else who thinks like them.

Who knows? Maybe they'll smell the roses...

[Garcia Bronco]

wonder twin powers activate.....form of a mop....and a lawnmower.

[Bronco Bob]

But time is very short. A few weeks ago the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists moved the doomsday clock up to 5 til midnight. That about says it all.

The only chance to turn the ship of state around at this very late hour is to shove reality into the faces of these clowns. And everyone else who thinks like them.

Who knows? Maybe they'll smell the roses...

Were you aware Russia has reversed the former Soviet Union's position of no first use of nuclear weapons? The official Soviet policy, which was set in the 1970s and confirmed in 1982, allowed for the use of nuclear weapons only in response to a nuclear attack.

The Russian Federation regards nuclear weapons as a means of deterrence of an aggression, of ensuring the military security of the Russian Federation and its allies, and of maintaining international stability and peace.

The Russian Federation reserves the right to use nuclear weapons in response to the use of nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction against itself or its allies and also in response to large-scale aggression involving conventional weapons in situations that are critical for the national security of the Russian Federation and its allies.

The Russian Federation will not use nuclear weapons against member states of the Treaty on the Nonproliferation of Nuclear Weapons that do not possess nuclear weapons except in the case of an invasion or any other attack against the Russian Federation, its territory, its armed forces or other troops, its allies, or a state toward which it has obligations with respect to security, unless that attack is conducted or supported by such a non-nuclear-weapons state together with a nuclear-weapons state or under alliance obligations with a nuclear-weapons state.

http://www.nti.org/db/nisprofs/over/doctrine.htm

[alkemical]

Gee, it seems we are trend setters once again.

[mhgaffney]

Yes, bob, but Clavicula has it right. The Ruskis are merely responding to what the Bush adminitation has done.

If you read my article WILL AMERICA FACE THE TRUTH ABOUT 911? then you should know that the present Bush policy is to control outer space, which is regarded as the ultimate high ground. Weaponization of space is seen as the way to control what happens on planet earth.

The rest of the world sees it differently. The whole world (with China and Russia in the lead) has been urging Washington since 1999 to ban all weapons from space -- but the USA has refused.

Bush unilaterally pulled out of the ABM Treaty in I think 2002 and ever since the US have been pursuing star wars. We are talking space based lasers and particle beam werapons. It's madness -- but we are going there.

Bush has also been pursuing a US first strike nuclear capability.

US nuclear policy today is NOT deterrence. That was cold war stuff. Our current policy is to actually threaten first use of nukes to dominate the planet. Sad to say, it's the truth.

Russia and China feel compelled to respond simply to protect their deterrent.

[Bronco Bob]

The rest of the world sees it differently. The whole world (with China and Russia in the lead) has been urging Washington since 1999 to ban all weapons from space -- but the USA has refused.


That was why China blew up their old weather satellite, to show they could
blind the US in a war. Most of the cruise missiles the US has depend on
GPS to reach their target. China knocks out the US's GPS satellites
and the cruise missiles are worthless, as well as many other weapons
systems the US depends on.


Bush unilaterally pulled out of the ABM Treaty in I think 2002 and ever since the US have been pursuing star wars. We are talking space based lasers and particle beam werapons. It's madness -- but we are going there.

This is why Russia has targeted Poland with their latest, most sophisticated
nuclear missiles that have manuverable warheads. By the way, ever
wonder why the US is installing ABM systems in Poland the defend against
Iranian missiles? When it would make more sense to install them in Turkey.


Bush has also been pursuing a US first strike nuclear capability.

US nuclear policy today is NOT deterrence. That was cold war stuff. Our current policy is to actually threaten first use of nukes to dominate the planet. Sad to say, it's the truth.

Russia and China feel compelled to respond simply to protect their deterrent.

Which is what is so dangerous about attacking Iran, especially with
any kind of nuclear weapons, even nuclear bunker busters.

[Bronco Bob]

More on Russia's Star Wars defeating nuclear ICBMs.

The Topol-M is reputed to have the highest accuracy of any Russian ICBM. One source indicates that its "maximum deviation" ("predelnoye otkloneniye"), defined as the radius in which over 99% of all warheads will impact and estimated to be 2.3 times larger than the missile's Circular Error Probable, is less than 500 meters.

The missile's design is believed to incorporate many features improving its ABM defense penetration ability, and to possess built-in potential for further upgrades in this area. According to some estimates, it carries more decoys and penetration aids than the 10-warhead Peacekeeper (MX) missile and is equipped with a hardened warhead invulnerable to all but direct hits by ABM interceptors. The warhead may also have independent maneuvering and precision-guidance capability. The seventh Topol-M test launch, conducted on 3 June 1999, featured a "lateral antimissile maneuver", with the warhead reportedly being guided to its destination by a Glonass-based "Terminator" satellite navigation system. Finally, thanks to its powerful first-stage boosters, the Topol-M has a short-duration boost phase (shorter by a factor of 4.5 than boost phases of older ICBMs such as the SS-18, which has a five-minute boost phase), which reduces its vulnerability to boost-phase intercept weapons. The missile's greater acceleration also allows it to assume a flatter trajectory, further reducing vulnerability to space-based weapons. The Topol-M also features a high degree of survivability against attack while on the ground. The silo-based version has been reported to be able to withstand a direct nuclear warhead hit on its silo, and the missile itself is hardened against EMP.

Sounds like the Russians aren't planning on getting caught with their pants down if push comes to shove.

[cbs1177]

I think it is weird that all advertisement with watches in it shows exactly 10:10. Also i went to an Elm school that each room had a different time on the clocks. Also in my house i have a blinking vcr and microwave with blinking 12:00. some clocks I don't even bother to set for DSL.

[Bronco Bob]

Also in my house i have a blinking vcr and microwave with blinking 12:00.

That would drive me nuts. The first thing I do with any electronic gizmo like that is set the clock.

[cbs1177]

That would drive me nuts. The first thing I do with any electronic gizmo like that is set the clock.

I only care about my DVR, my computer, my alarm clock, wrist watch and my car clock. that is enough for me. The rest is too much to change. and I don't look at them for the time anyhow.

[Tom H.]

I think it is weird that all advertisement with watches in it shows exactly 10:10.

That's to show the face better. Sometimes moved a bit to show the name or some other detail better.

[cbs1177]

I was trying to make a point I can't even keep my clock in sync. I really don't think five minutes or 10 minutes is off too much. My clocks all range depending on how I need them. my alarm clock set early to give me the false sense of I still have time to sleep just five more minutes and yadda yadda

[mhgaffney]

I was trying to make a point I can't even keep my clock in sync. I really don't think five minutes or 10 minutes is off too much. My clocks all range depending on how I need them. my alarm clock set early to give me the false sense of I still have time to sleep just five more minutes and yadda yadda

One of the first things new recruits learn in boot camp is to be on time. It's a big part of military discipline.

The US military runs by the clock -- not five minutes late.

The idea that both pentagon clocks just happened to be wrong by the exact same amount of time is absurd. No, the clocks were set properly and on time. The pentagon crash happened in the moment they suddenly stopped.

Stay turned for my next 911 article in which I will explain the why and what for.

[cbs1177]

NASA is very precise in calculations but the hubble telescope was off just by a hair. What time was the clocks set to? Who decide what time it should be for the pentagon. How many clocks are at the pentagon? Are they are all in sync? Airports are run by time. I have notice a few clocks being different in terminals. I think you give the pentagon too much credit for being perfect. I don't believe every single clock is right or in sync at the pentagon.

[elsid13]

One of the first things new recruits learn in boot camp is to be on time. It's a big part of military discipline.

The US military runs by the clock -- not five minutes late.

The idea that both pentagon clocks just happened to be wrong by the exact same amount of time is absurd. No, the clocks were set properly and on time. The pentagon crash happened in the moment they suddenly stopped.

Stay turned for my next 911 article in which I will explain the why and what for.

Dude, you truly have no clue what the Pentagon is really like or whose works there. There are more civil servants at Pentagon then military and what happen in the operational military usually has very little direct day to day connection with happening in the Pentagon. And like I stated before clocks are different throughout the freaking building because a number of reasons.

You can continue to make absurd statements that have more basis in rejected X file scripts but it would be nice if you limited the number spam threads you create, so some of us can dicuss real political issues without weigh through your BS.

[W*GS]

The idea that both pentagon clocks just happened to be wrong by the exact same amount of time is absurd.

The idea that allegedly incorrect clocks (!) is a foundation for proof that 9/11 was an inside job is truly, truly absurd.

[alkemical]

The idea that allegedly incorrect clocks (!) is a foundation for proof that 9/11 was an inside job is truly, truly absurd.

This i agree with.

[Bronco Bob]

Stay turned for my next 911 article in which I will explain the why and what for.

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed has claimed "I was responsible for the 9/11 operation from A to Z."

I would like a response from you as to how this fits in with your theories about 9-11.

[W*GS]

KSM is a patsy.

Right, gaffney?

[alkemical]

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed has claimed "I was responsible for the 9/11 operation from A to Z."

I would like a response from you as to how this fits in with your theories about 9-11.



Well he was tortured and held at Gitmo..... Not saying... just saying....

[mhgaffney]

The idea that allegedly incorrect clocks (!) is a foundation for proof that 9/11 was an inside job is truly, truly absurd.

You can't even read a simple declarative sentence without twisting it sideways.

I never said the clocks were incorrect. No, just the opposite. The clocks were correct. They are hard evidence that cannot be denied.

What's haywire is the official 911 timeline.

Stay tuned. More to come on this -- soooon.

[Bronco Bob]

You can't even read a simple declarative sentence without twisting it sideways.

I never said the clocks were incorrect. No, just the opposite. The clocks were correct. They are hard evidence that cannot be denied.

What's haywire is the official 911 timeline.

Stay tuned. More to come on this -- soooon.

How does this timeline fit in with the claim by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed where he said "I was responsible for the 9/11 operation from A to Z."

[mhgaffney]

How does this timeline fit in with the claim by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed where he said "I was responsible for the 9/11 operation from A to Z."

Whether or not there were hijackers on the planes is a separate question.

There's no link to what I will soon propose with regard to the timeline.

As for Khalid Shiekh Mohammmed, who is at Gitmo -- how do we know the confession wasn't extracted via torture? These days Bush is in desperate need for some positive publicity -- and a 911 confession does fit the bill, does it not?

But if the confession was extracted via torture - then how credible is it? Not very. The fact that the Shiekh confessed to every crime under the sun also makes his confession suspect, IMO.

Remember, they also made a big deal about the Zecharias Moussaoui conviction/confession -- but the guy was so dysfunctional he could never have done the things they claim he did.

[broncocalijohn]

My father-in-law's ex-neighbor's brother used to work for NASA, and he had proof that the moon landings were faked. It all started with differences in the readings of the O2 concentration in the Apollo capsule "accident" that killed three astronauts.

Interested, gaffney?

(I'm just curious as to the inverted pyramid of proof that gaffney will try to build that starts with an alleged 5-minute "discrepancy" in the time that Flight 77 struck the Pentagon and ends with 9/11 being an inside job. Ought to be as "interesting" as the rest of his whackitude...)


Dont start him up on the landing of the moon. Ill knock his crap down big time if he starts another conspiracy thread. This one, though ,should keep him busy for the next 10 years. If reporter made a mistake and says building 7 went down BEFORE it actually did, then add the whole BBC as part of the inside job.

[W*GS]

The two clocks gaffney is using to build his whackitude look to be battery-operated, not part of a time service system. Thus, their accuracy in recording the time of Flight 77's impact on the Pentagon is doubtful.

Besides, wasn't it actually something besides Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon, gaffney?

[Garcia Bronco]

9/11 mastermind confesses in Guantanamo By LOLITA C. BALDOR, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 44 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the suspected mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, confessed to that attack and a string of others during a military hearing at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, according to a transcript released Wednesday by the Pentagon.

ADVERTISEMENT

Mohammed claimed responsibility for planning, financing, and training others for bombings ranging from the 1993 attack at the World Trade Center to the attempt by would-be shoe bomber Richard Reid to blow up a trans-Atlantic flight with explosives hidden in his shoes.

In all, Mohammed said he was responsible for planning 29 individual attacks, including many that were never executed. The comments were included in a 26-page transcript released by the Pentagon, which also blacked out some of his remarks.

The Pentagon also released transcripts of the hearings of Abu Faraj al-Libi and Ramzi Binalshibh.

Binalshibh is suspected of helping Mohammed with the Sept. 11, 2001, attack plan and is also linked to a foiled plot to crash aircraft into London's Heathrow Airport. Al-Libi is a Libyan who reportedly masterminded two bombings 11 days apart in Pakistan in December 2003 that targeted President Pervez Musharraf for his support of the U.S.-led war on terror.

The hearings, which began last Friday, are being conducted in secret by the military as it tries to determine whether 14 alleged terrorist leaders should be declared "enemy combatants" who can be held indefinitely and prosecuted by military tribunals.

Hearings for six of the 14 have already been held. The military is not allowing reporters to attend the sessions and is limiting the information it provides about them, arguing that it wants to prevent sensitive information from being disclosed.

The 14 were moved in September from a secret CIA prison network to the prison at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, where about 385 men are being held on suspicion of links to al-Qaida or the Taliban.

[mhgaffney]

Still don't believe there were bombs in the WTC? Watch this.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yIgoXQWiSlM

This is for the knee jerks on this board who swallow everything their government tells them -- like obedient sheep.

[Garcia Bronco]

9/11 mastermind confesses in Guantanamo

[Garcia Bronco]

9/11 mastermind confesses in Guantanamo .

[Garcia Bronco]

9/11 mastermind confesses in Guantanamo..

[Garcia Bronco]

9/11 mastermind confesses in Guantanamo ....

[W*GS]

Still don't believe there were bombs in the WTC? Watch this.

Sigh. We've been over this, again and again.

This thing is so typical of the whackjobs' work - misleading video, statements carefully taken out of context, comments from people on the scene who were emotionally stressed out and not in positions to make provably factual statements, and more of the typical schlock.

But nothing will ever convince gaffney.

He's a whackjob through and through.

[alkemical]

9/11 mastermind confesses in Guantanamo

I thought OBL confessed to this?

[alkemical]

9/11 mastermind confesses in Guantanamo .

I thought M. Atta confessed to this?

[alkemical]

9/11 mastermind confesses in Guantanamo..

He also confessed to being Courtney Love and killing Kurt Cobain

[alkemical]

9/11 mastermind confesses in Guantanamo ....

He also confessed to being anna nicole's baby's daddy -

[Rohirrim]

I think it was a Manchurian Candidate kind of thing. The pilots had been brainwashed for years by the CIA. There were no hijackers on the planes. They were flying along normally until a voice came over the radio saying, "But I have promises to keep, and miles to go before I sleep." I think they used LSD in their brain washing. They got it from the famous acid maker, Owsley. He's down in Australia making sand candles now, but that's just his cover. The man behind the entire scheme was Hunter Thompson. More on that later...

[alkemical]

The two clocks gaffney is using to build his whackitude look to be battery-operated, not part of a time service system. Thus, their accuracy in recording the time of Flight 77's impact on the Pentagon is doubtful.

Besides, wasn't it actually something besides Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon, gaffney?


Re: The bolded sections.

"Looks" like? No evidence either for/against MGH - this is moot.

[Bronco Bob]

I thought OBL confessed to this?

Where you aware that KSM and OBL were working together?

[alkemical]

Where you aware that KSM and OBL were working together?

It's possible. But then "KSM" also admitted to voting for the worst american idol as well. I mean at this point i don't trust any information that comes out. Fake news is big business.

[Bronco Bob]

Still don't believe there were bombs in the WTC? Watch this.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yIgoXQWiSlM

This is for the knee jerks on this board who swallow everything their government tells them -- like obedient sheep.

Lots of things can cause a sound that sounds like a bomb.
The explosions they were hearing were caused by compressed air
blowing out sections of the building. Try this. Take a 2 liter pop bottle,
put some dry ice and water in it and seal the lid. Makes a loud bang,
but there are no explosives used, just compressed gas.

Look, you dope, in '93 there actually were bombs used in the WTC, so any loud baning sounds would naturally make people think there might be bombs
used in another terrorist attack. It's not like jets crash into buildings
every day, so these experiences were new to people, and they were
just going by what they knew from the previous attack.

[Bronco Bob]

He also confessed to being Courtney Love and killing Kurt Cobain

I have heard nothing about this.

[Bronco Bob]

He also confessed to being anna nicole's baby's daddy -

Where did you hear this? Not even Nancy Grace has ever said anything about that.

[Bronco Bob]

It's possible. But then "KSM" also admitted to voting for the worst american idol as well.

Never heard anything about this either, not even on Faux Noise.


I mean at this point i don't trust any information that comes out. Fake news is big business.

Whack-a-tude is also big business, considering how many conspiracy books get published.

I think this guy did it. Just because people come from 3rd world countries
doesn't mean they are stupid, doesn't mean they can devise carefully
laid out plans. Why is whack-a-tude based in improbable sets of
coincidences and unproven theories easier to accept?

[W*GS]

Re: The bolded sections.

"Looks" like? No evidence either for/against MGH - this is moot.

Not really - we need better evidence than just what gaffney has presented. Proof of the clocks' accuracy and that they were, in fact, displaying the NIST standard time at the moment of impact (and that, indeed, the moment of impact is what stopped them) are required.

gaffney hasn't supplied anything except a couple of pictures. BFD.

[alkemical]

Not really - we need better evidence than just what gaffney has presented. Proof of the clocks' accuracy and that they were, in fact, displaying the NIST standard time at the moment of impact (and that, indeed, the moment of impact is what stopped them) are required.

gaffney hasn't supplied anything except a couple of pictures. BFD.


Ya, and you can't have your word saying they are battery operated clocks stand up - so ya - your word is nothing. (Not that i don't agree with you - i'm just pointing out how absurd it is to claim knowledge any more than what he has).

[alkemical]

Never heard anything about this either, not even on Faux Noise.



Whack-a-tude is also big business, considering how many conspiracy books get published.

I think this guy did it. Just because people come from 3rd world countries
doesn't mean they are stupid, doesn't mean they can devise carefully
laid out plans. Why is whack-a-tude based in improbable sets of
coincidences and unproven theories easier to accept?


Gee i dunno didn't his confession include him blowing up a bank before it was even in existence?

""I was responsible for planning, training, surveying, and financing for the New (or Second) Wave of attacks against the following skyscrapers after 9/11: ...Plaza Bank, Washington state"

http://www.plazabankwa.com/about.asp

Founded in early 2006, with a vision of creating the leading commercial bank in the Pacific Northwest, Plaza Bank’s story quickly captured the hearts and passion of some of the region’s leading business minds. From Jack Creighton, former CEO of Weyerhaeuser and United Airlines, to former Seattle Mariner Edgar Martinez, and nationally acclaimed salon operator Gene Juárez, the story of a bank founded to bring “class to the mass” simply could not be contained.

[Bronco Bob]

Gee i dunno didn't his confession include him blowing up a bank before it was even in existence?

""I was responsible for planning, training, surveying, and financing for the New (or Second) Wave of attacks against the following skyscrapers after 9/11: ...Plaza Bank, Washington state"

http://www.plazabankwa.com/about.asp

Founded in early 2006, with a vision of creating the leading commercial bank in the Pacific Northwest, Plaza Bank’s story quickly captured the hearts and passion of some of the region’s leading business minds. From Jack Creighton, former CEO of Weyerhaeuser and United Airlines, to former Seattle Mariner Edgar Martinez, and nationally acclaimed salon operator Gene Juárez, the story of a bank founded to bring “class to the mass” simply could not be contained.

Are you sure this isn't the building KSM meant?

http://www.historylink.org/essays/output.cfm?file_id=1197

On March 28, 1969, the Seattle First (a.k.a. Sea-First and Seafirst) National Bank dedicates its new 50-story headquarters at 1001 4th Avenue in downtown Seattle. The structure is (in 1969) the largest building in Seattle and the "tallest west of the Mississippi." Seattleites call it "the box the Space Needle came in." It is also known as the Seafirst Building and, later, 1001 4th Avenue Plaza.

KSM was going after high profile targets and the tallest building west
of the Mississippi would be a tempting target.

[alkemical]

Are you sure this isn't the building KSM meant?

http://www.historylink.org/essays/output.cfm?file_id=1197

On March 28, 1969, the Seattle First (a.k.a. Sea-First and Seafirst) National Bank dedicates its new 50-story headquarters at 1001 4th Avenue in downtown Seattle. The structure is (in 1969) the largest building in Seattle and the "tallest west of the Mississippi." Seattleites call it "the box the Space Needle came in." It is also known as the Seafirst Building and, later, 1001 4th Avenue Plaza.

KSM was going after high profile targets and the tallest building west
of the Mississippi would be a tempting target.



Considering the name of the bank i linked to is plaza bank, and not a bank at a plaza - i'm going to have to lean more towards the info i dug up on it first. Not some google search. (also shows that maybe you didn't read the "confession") -

[Bronco Bob]

Considering the name of the bank i linked to is plaza bank, and not a bank at a plaza - i'm going to have to lean more towards the info i dug up on it first. Not some google search. (also shows that maybe you didn't read the "confession") -

Actually an article that I read about the confession is where I got the link.
I mean it all depends on how hard you want to make it into a false flag
conspiracy. You can take the idea that KSM knew about a tall bank
building in Seattle that had Plaza in its name and go with the idea he
wanted to blow that one up and later became confused about the exact
name and called it by a name similar to a bank that didn't exist yet.
Or you can claim he is lying about wanting to blow up a building called
Plaza Bank that didn't exist when he was captured, and by extrapolation
he lied about everything. Do a Google search. There are Plaza Banks
all over the country, Illinois, Orange Country in California. I mean do you
honestly thing this is the bank KSM was going after?

http://www.hispanicprwire.com/news.php?l=in&id=6966&cha=14

[Bronco Bob]

Instead of this one?

[alkemical]

Actually an article that I read about the confession is where I got the link.
I mean it all depends on how hard you want to make it into a false flag
conspiracy. You can take the idea that KSM knew about a tall bank
building in Seattle that had Plaza in its name and go with the idea he
wanted to blow that one up and later became confused about the exact
name and called it by a name similar to a bank that didn't exist yet.
Or you can claim he is lying about wanting to blow up a building called
Plaza Bank that didn't exist when he was captured, and by extrapolation
he lied about everything. Do a Google search. There are Plaza Banks
all over the country, Illinois, Orange Country in California. I mean do you
honestly thing this is the bank KSM was going after?

http://www.hispanicprwire.com/news.php?l=in&id=6966&cha=14



Still doesn't change the fact that after being stuck in a torture camp the information is suspect. Not to mention your info is not any more valid than what i presented. So guess what - your information presented is nothing more than disinformation. Sorry "BOB" - sleep in fear all you want. I fear no terrorist, but i loathe those whom wish to bind me to their support of a totalitarian gov't.

[Bronco Bob]

Still doesn't change the fact that after being stuck in a torture camp the information is suspect. Not to mention your info is not any more valid than what i presented.

Which info was that, that KSM killed Kurt Cobain, was the father of Anna Nicole's baby,
was a judge for American Idol? Or that PlazaBank is a dinky strip mall
bank and a huge building called 1001 4th Avenue Plaza is occuppied
by Bank of America.
Did KSM say PlazaBank or the Plaza bank? Did the interpretor think KSM said
PlazaBank when KSM said the Plaza bank?


So guess what - your information presented is nothing more than disinformation. How so? Presenting facts is now disinformation?


Sorry "BOB" - sleep in fear all you want. I fear no terrorist, but i loathe those whom wish to bind me to their support of a totalitarian gov't.

What does fear have to do with not accepting BS theories when the obvious shows otherwise? No offense, but if anything you seem to be the one sleeping in fear over some government Men in Black planting mini-nukes in skyscrapers.

[alkemical]

Which info was that, that KSM killed Kurt Cobain, was the father of Anna Nicole's baby,
was a judge for American Idol? Or that PlazaBank is a dinky strip mall
bank and a huge building called 1001 4th Avenue Plaza is occuppied
by Bank of America.
Did KSM say PlazaBank or the Plaza bank? Did the interpretor think KSM said
PlazaBank when KSM said the Plaza bank?

How so? Presenting facts is now disinformation?



What does fear have to do with not accepting BS theories when the obvious shows otherwise? No offense, but if anything you seem to be the one sleeping in fear over some government Men in Black planting mini-nukes in skyscrapers.



The only thing you have proven is "jack****". Sorry bub, you haven't done anything to disprove any "facts". Keep trying though, it's quite entertaining to watch you try to prove it.

[Bronco Bob]

The only thing you have proven is "jack****". Sorry bub, you haven't done anything to disprove any "facts". Keep trying though, it's quite entertaining to watch you try to prove it.

What facts would those be? That KSM said he was planning on blowing up a
one story bank building in a strip mall that hadn't even been built when he was
captured?


The infamous PlazaBank. ROFL!

[alkemical]

What facts would those be?

That's my point.... ;)

[Bronco Bob]

That's my point.... ;)

Too cryptic for me to decipher what your point is.

[alkemical]

Too cryptic for me to decipher what your point is.

Because there is no truth when it comes to 9/11. I can't take the gov'ts word at value - well - because the gov't has a vested interest in manipulating the events of 9/11. Either someone knew, or they were grossly incompetent. In the end, they (the gov't) exploited the events of that day to further make a power grab.

I'm not able to trust most any news source - because most of the time each one has their own agenda to push. Not to mention i'm not sure if they are using a gov't sponsored story (which i have posted info on that happening, even the WH admitted it) - etc etc.

So it doesn't matter to me how much you want to push the pro-gov't agenda - or how much MHG has a new possibility every other hour. Everyone is false on this issue. There won't be any truth, since there isn't any money in it.

It's not a war on terror. That's unwinnable. There is no "victor". It's designed to keep moving and keep going. So pardon my cynicism to believing anyone that wants to claim their "source of authority for the information they consume" to be "the most valid".

It's why i laugh at Wags 911 link site. I can find 30 more that refute every claim off of that site. Not to mention when Wags used it for the BBC video - it contradicted the exact statements of and by the BBC in regards to their policies.

It's why I just laugh at the whole thing. I figure 80-90% of the story is more or less as is. It's that remainder that's bull****. It's also one reason that this story will carry on like the JFK assassination, etc etc...

See people like wags and MHG, etc - are after knowledge. I don't give a **** about knowledge - i only care about truth.

Now go and run along and start your ad hominem attacks on me like everyone else does.... *yawn*

[Bronco Bob]

Because there is no truth when it comes to 9/11. I can't take the gov'ts word at value - well - because the gov't has a vested interest in manipulating the events of 9/11. Either someone knew, or they were grossly incompetent. Judging by everything else this the jack-asses in the Bush administration have screwed up, I'm going with
incompetence as the reason 9-11 was allowed to happen. Yes, grossly incompetent. That's why I find it hard to believe that 9-11 was an inside job.
Let's face it, al-Quada has a better over-all record of success in their plots.

In the end, they (the gov't) exploited the events of that day to further make a power grab.
No argument there.


I'm not able to trust most any news source - because most of the time each one has their own agenda to push. Not to mention i'm not sure if they are using a gov't sponsored story (which i have posted info on that happening, even the WH admitted it) - etc etc.
It all boils down to doing your own research and finding the most credible answer.


So it doesn't matter to me how much you want to push the pro-gov't agenda
I'm hoping you are using "you" in a general sense, and not using
"you" to mean me specifically, because I assure you I'm one of those people
who are very critical of the Bush administration and can't wait until
January 2009.


- or how much MHG has a new possibility every other hour. Everyone is false on this issue. There won't be any truth, since there isn't any money in it.

It's not a war on terror. That's unwinnable. There is no "victor". It's designed to keep moving and keep going. So pardon my cynicism to believing anyone that wants to claim their "source of authority for the information they consume" to be "the most valid".

It's why i laugh at Wags 911 link site. I can find 30 more that refute every claim off of that site. Not to mention when Wags used it for the BBC video - it contradicted the exact statements of and by the BBC in regards to their policies.

It's why I just laugh at the whole thing. I figure 80-90% of the story is more or less as is. It's that remainder that's bull****. It's also one reason that this story will carry on like the JFK assassination, etc etc...

See people like wags and MHG, etc - are after knowledge. I don't give a **** about knowledge - i only care about truth.

Now go and run along and start your ad hominem attacks on me like everyone else does.... *yawn*
Again you have lost me as to what exactly your complaints about me are.
Are you upset because we don't agree on which building KSM was
referring to by "Plaza Bank"? Yes, KSM comes off as very boastful,
a warrior mentality. And maybe he is exaggerating his role. But you
have to consider the possibility that some of what he is saying could
be true and not just dismiss it out of hand.

[mhgaffney]

See people like wags and MHG, etc - are after knowledge. I don't give a **** about knowledge - i only care about truth.


You insult me by putting me in the same bag with W*gsy. This tells me you are not a serious person.

If you had taken the time to read my detailed articles you would know that uncovering the truth about 9/11 is what is driving me.

It's what has motivated me -- because this is the last chance for our nation at this point.

[W*GS]

Because there is no truth when it comes to 9/11.

Saying "there is no truth" is a load of crap, and you know it. Your vaunted skepticism leads you to make such silly comments, and while you think you're being clever and intellectual when you say such things, all it reveals is the depth of your paranoia and nihilism.

Everyone is false on this issue.

You're not part of that "everyone", are you?

It's why i laugh at Wags 911 link site. I can find 30 more that refute every claim off of that site.

Truth is by popular vote, eh?

I don't give a **** about knowledge - i only care about truth.

This has got to be one of the most idiotic and asinine comments I've ever read. How does one determine truth without knowledge? Tea leaves? The Magic Eight Ball?

[mhgaffney]

Because there is no truth when it comes to 9/11.


You sound as if you are suffering from one of the most common mental ailments of our time. It is pandemic.

It's a mental malaise -- a sense of futility -- that nothing can be done -- and the truth is out of reach.

IT'S CAUSED BY THE MEDIA AND TELEVISION -- A VERY SUBTLE PROGRAMMING THAT MAKES PEOPLE PASSIVE -- INCAPABLE OF ACTION.

I suggest you turn off the television -- and then get in touch with the native intelligence that God gave you. (And if you don't believe in God that's OK too. Just start using the thing between your ears.)

BECAUSE HERE IS THE TRUTH: 911 was no less a crime than any other crime. Real people are responsible and they can be exposed and brought to justice jjust like with any other crime.

Not the ones who allegedly did it -- no, a different group. The guilty ones are the men who rule America from behind the scenes. They are wall street bankers, industrialists, insurance tycoons, oil magnates, neo cons and some are from the intelligence community.

Unless we expose them and get control over our military and our country again -- all will be lost.

So Clavicula, don't tell me there is no 911 truth. That's a load of LAZY BS.

[Spider]

You sound as if you are suffering from one of the most common mental ailments of our time. It is pandemic.

It's a mental malaise -- a sense of futility -- that nothing can be done -- and the truth is out of reach.

IT'S CAUSED BY THE MEDIA AND TELEVISION -- A VERY SUBTLE PROGRAMMING THAT MAKES PEOPLE PASSIVE -- INCAPABLE OF ACTION.

I suggest you turn off the television -- and then get in touch with the native intelligence that God gave you. (And if you don't believe in God that's OK too. Just start using the thing between your ears.)

BECAUSE HERE IS THE TRUTH: 911 was no less a crime than any other crime. Real people are responsible and they can be exposed and brought to justice jjust like with any other crime.

Not the ones who allegedly did it -- no, a different group. The guilty ones are the men who rule America from behind the scenes. They are wall street bankers, industrialists, insurance tycoons, oil magnates, neo cons and some are from the intelligence community.

Unless we expose them and get control over our military and our country again -- all will be lost.

So Clavicula, don't tell me there is no 911 truth. That's a load of LAZY BS.

you need to get laid ........... I think W*GS is free tonight ....... hook up I will never judge

[elsid13]

you need to get laid ........... I think W*GS is free tonight ....... hook up I will never judge

LOL

And Bobo is always free, if you don't interrupt his D&D game.

[alkemical]

Saying "there is no truth" is a load of crap, and you know it. Your vaunted skepticism leads you to make such silly comments, and while you think you're being clever and intellectual when you say such things, all it reveals is the depth of your paranoia and nihilism.



You're not part of that "everyone", are you?



Truth is by popular vote, eh?



This has got to be one of the most idiotic and asinine comments I've ever read. How does one determine truth without knowledge? Tea leaves? The Magic Eight Ball?


A) I'm not trying to be clever. I'm just being myself. I don't have the need to fill my ego up via a message board like you do wagsy. After all MHG came along at the right time since your LABF left. But then again - it is rather laughable to see the tirade you launch into when someone steps on your precious "intellect". Or how you slither off a thread and let it die when you are wrong.

B) Of course i am. But the major difference is - i don't claim to have the answers and keep stating they are "right". I mean that's where you and MHG have an awful lot in common wagsy.

C-D) Truth is independent of knowledge, esp if your knowledge is wrong. So when GHWBush told us "no new taxes" and raised the old taxes - i guess he wasn't lying, right wags?

Go F yourself.

[Spider]

it is rather laughable to see the tirade you launch into when someone steps on your precious "intellect". Or how you slither off a thread and let it die when you are wrong.



Like the time he compared his car insurance to the Insurance carried on a 18 wheeler , he couldnt get away from that thread fast enough .....W*GS is wrong on so many issues hard to keep count

[alkemical]

Like the time he compared his car insurance to the Insurance carried on a 18 wheeler , he couldnt get away from that thread fast enough .....W*GS is wrong on so many issues hard to keep count



He's an excellent debater and can get away with moving something off topic extremely well. But yeah on the one thread about the gov't watching your internet habits. Bascially a bunch of us posters whom are IT specific for large industry said that this can be done, because it's not much different than what you do with a secure corp. network - and poof he stopped posting on the thread.

He's got his good points - but the fact is there is an inerrant nature in wags that he needs to feel superior. At least so far he has a healthy way of doing it (although he's a dick), instead of killing hookers yet.

[W*GS]

Is it time again for a new thread about me, started by Spider? It's been a while...

Oh, and Spider is still misremembering the whole insurance thing - but given his booze-soaked brain, I cut him a lot of slack.

[W*GS]

The government can watch one's Internet usage only as much as you allow it to. There are any number of technological solutions to that problem, which Josh is apparently ignorant of.

[alkemical]

The government can watch one's Internet usage only as much as you allow it to. There are any number of technological solutions to that problem, which Josh is apparently ignorant of.



Blah blah blah blah blah

Wagsy - SPoofing is against the TOS of your ISP - which obviously you are ignorant of. But considering you've been wrong before, being wrong this time should be easier. Considering you are a programmer and don't have the knowledge of running IT systems for global companies - i'm just going to chalk it up to you not knowing your ****.

[Spider]

He's an excellent debater and can get away with moving something off topic extremely well. But yeah on the one thread about the gov't watching your internet habits. Bascially a bunch of us posters whom are IT specific for large industry said that this can be done, because it's not much different than what you do with a secure corp. network - and poof he stopped posting on the thread.

He's got his good points - but the fact is there is an inerrant nature in wags that he needs to feel superior. At least so far he has a healthy way of doing it (although he's a dick), instead of killing hookers yet.
I remember that , but there were others also ......thats just W*GS

[Spider]

Is it time again for a new thread about me, started by Spider? It's been a while... naw . people have you figured out .....

Oh, and Spider is still misremembering the whole insurance thing - but given his booze-soaked brain, I cut him a lot of slack.

LOL yeah ....... you was the one that brought up your car insurance ....... Hilarious!

[W*GS]

Wagsy - SPoofing is against the TOS of your ISP - which obviously you are ignorant of.

Maybe your ISP, but not mine. And there's ways to get around that, too.

But considering you've been wrong before, being wrong this time should be easier. Considering you are a programmer and don't have the knowledge of running IT systems for global companies - i'm just going to chalk it up to you not knowing your ****.

I do know my **** - it's you, in your paranoia-addled mind, that are ascribing to the government powers that are easily blunted.

[Spider]

Maybe your ISP, but not mine. And there's ways to get around that, too. weather man and super hacker ...........
just like Ward Churchill only more talent

[broncocalijohn]

Clav, what did they feed you while on the streets? 9/11 happened! The badasses of the world had something terrible happen to out country. Deal with it. It is like the Moon landing conspiracy theorist (I am sure McGoofey is one of them). They see the flag bouncing and waving on a surface of the moon and say "hey, we didnt really go because the flag moved and that cant be possible on a non windy surface." Of course if you use the same type of flag and pole, you will see that driving it into a hard surface will "bounce" and make the flag move. They dont have time for experiments like that. But hey, you have You tube to give us how all the events on 9/11 didnt happen in real time or was a big, huge set up by Google, BBC and Bush. Add Haliburton in there for good measure.

[W*GS]

weather man and super hacker ...........
just like Ward Churchill only more talent

I gotcha, and you're having a temper tantrum. Poor little boy...

[alkemical]

Maybe your ISP, but not mine. And there's ways to get around that, too.



I do know my **** - it's you, in your paranoia-addled mind, that are ascribing to the government powers that are easily blunted.


Wags,

I could get around it if i wish to break the law and risk a possible violation. Since i like my broadband - i agree to the TOS that my provider affords me.

But having dealt with multi-billion dollar, global corporations, not like some rinky dink network setup by IT major affords me to have a much greater understanding of how things work via the topology of a very large network.

But then your Ego driven persona just likes to argue, it's quite entertaining.

PS: Mises > Economist

[alkemical]

Clav, what did they feed you while on the streets? 9/11 happened! The badasses of the world had something terrible happen to out country. Deal with it. It is like the Moon landing conspiracy theorist (I am sure McGoofey is one of them). They see the flag bouncing and waving on a surface of the moon and say "hey, we didnt really go because the flag moved and that cant be possible on a non windy surface." Of course if you use the same type of flag and pole, you will see that driving it into a hard surface will "bounce" and make the flag move. They dont have time for experiments like that. But hey, you have You tube to give us how all the events on 9/11 didnt happen in real time or was a big, huge set up by Google, BBC and Bush. Add Haliburton in there for good measure.


You have no understanding of where i stand on 9/11. Sorry you missed the point.

[Spider]

I gotcha, and you're having a temper tantrum. Poor little boy...

gee just pointing out that you are a super hacker disguised as a weatherman , the essence of multi tasking ... no need to get hostile ,