As Suspected, Patriot Act Used to Spy Illegally on Americans

[Bronco_Beerslug]

The legacy of this administration continues to be nothing but a lie.


----------------------------------------------------------------
Gonzales, Mueller admit FBI broke law (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070310/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/national_security_letters_32)
By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The nation's top two law enforcement officials acknowledged Friday the FBI broke the law to secretly pry out personal information about Americans. They apologized and vowed to prevent further illegal intrusions.

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales left open the possibility of pursuing criminal charges against FBI agents or lawyers who improperly used the USA Patriot Act in pursuit of suspected terrorists and spies.

The FBI's transgressions were spelled out in a damning 126-page audit by Justice Department Inspector General Glenn A. Fine. He found that agents sometimes demanded personal data on people without official authorization, and in other cases improperly obtained telephone records in non-emergency circumstances.

The audit also concluded that the FBI for three years underreported to Congress how often it used national security letters to ask businesses to turn over customer data. The letters are administrative subpoenas that do not require a judge's approval.

"People have to believe in what we say," Gonzales said. "And so I think this was very upsetting to me. And it's frustrating."

"We have some work to do to reassure members of Congress and the American people that we are serious about being responsible in the exercise of these authorities," he said.

Under the Patriot Act, the national security letters give the FBI authority to demand that telephone companies, Internet service providers, banks, credit bureaus and other businesses produce personal records about their customers or subscribers. About three-fourths of the letters issued between 2003 and 2005 involved counterterror cases, with the rest for espionage investigations, the audit reported.

Shoddy record-keeping and human error were to blame for the bulk of the problems, said Justice auditors, who were careful to note they found no indication of criminal misconduct.

Still, "we believe the improper or illegal uses we found involve serious misuses of national security letter authorities," the audit concluded.
CONT.

[colosilverado]

The legacy of this administration continues to be nothing but a lie.


----------------------------------------------------------------
Gonzales, Mueller admit FBI broke law (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070310/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/national_security_letters_32)
By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The nation's top two law enforcement officials acknowledged Friday the FBI broke the law to secretly pry out personal information about Americans. They apologized and vowed to prevent further illegal intrusions.

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales left open the possibility of pursuing criminal charges against FBI agents or lawyers who improperly used the USA Patriot Act in pursuit of suspected terrorists and spies.

The FBI's transgressions were spelled out in a damning 126-page audit by Justice Department Inspector General Glenn A. Fine. He found that agents sometimes demanded personal data on people without official authorization, and in other cases improperly obtained telephone records in non-emergency circumstances.

The audit also concluded that the FBI for three years underreported to Congress how often it used national security letters to ask businesses to turn over customer data. The letters are administrative subpoenas that do not require a judge's approval.

"People have to believe in what we say," Gonzales said. "And so I think this was very upsetting to me. And it's frustrating."

"We have some work to do to reassure members of Congress and the American people that we are serious about being responsible in the exercise of these authorities," he said.

Under the Patriot Act, the national security letters give the FBI authority to demand that telephone companies, Internet service providers, banks, credit bureaus and other businesses produce personal records about their customers or subscribers. About three-fourths of the letters issued between 2003 and 2005 involved counterterror cases, with the rest for espionage investigations, the audit reported.

Shoddy record-keeping and human error were to blame for the bulk of the problems, said Justice auditors, who were careful to note they found no indication of criminal misconduct.

Still, "we believe the improper or illegal uses we found involve serious misuses of national security letter authorities," the audit concluded.
CONT.

Since when is the FBI controlled by the president? I'm sure if you try hard enough, you can convince yourself that Bush was the 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll and that Watergate was Bush's fault too.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Since when is the FBI controlled by the president? I'm sure if you try hard enough, you can convince yourself that Bush was the 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll and that Watergate was Bush's fault too.
LOL

Do tell, what administration enacted the Patriot Act?
Never fails to amaze me to what length the Bush apologists will stoop to.

And what makes you think it's only confined to the FBI? Anyone left defending this administration of corruption, deceit and outright lies at this point should apply for charter membership in the Chinese hierarchy. You be welcomed with opened arms.

[colosilverado]

LOL

Do tell, what administration enacted the Patriot Act?
Never fails to amaze me to what length the Bush apologists will stoop to.

And what makes you think it's only confined to the FBI? Anyone left defending this administration of corruption, deceit and outright lies at this point should apply for charter membership in the Chinese hierarchy.

If you think that Bush has control over the FBI, CIA or NSA, you're a fool and don't know jack about these types of organizations. I am not a Bush apologist. I hate all politicians, regardless of party.

[colosilverado]

LOL

Do tell, what administration enacted the Patriot Act?
Never fails to amaze me to what length the Bush apologists will stoop to.

And what makes you think it's only confined to the FBI? Anyone left defending this administration of corruption, deceit and outright lies at this point should apply for charter membership in the Chinese hierarchy. You be welcomed with opened arms.

I have no problem with the government doing whatever it takes to keep us safe. I hope they keep an extra close eye on anti-American whackos like you. ;)

[Bronco_Beerslug]

If you think that Bush has control over the FBI, CIA or NSA, you're a fool and don't know jack about these types of organizations. I am not a Bush apologist. I hate all politicians, regardless of party.
LOL

You are worst kind of ignorant and uninformed Bush apologist.

[colosilverado]

LOL

You are worst kind of ignorant and uninformed Bush apologist.

GOOD ONE! Nice comeback. Uninformed? Really? Do you know my background on these matters? Do you know who I know? No president has the kind of control you think they do on this kind of stuff with these agencies. Nobody but those inside has a clue what they are up to and there is serious in-fighting.
As I stated before, moron, I hate all politicians and all who are so into politics that they are devoted to only waving the flag of their party.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

GOOD ONE! Nice comeback. Uninformed? Really? Do you know my background on these matters? Do you know who I know?
As I stated before, moron, I hate all politicians and all who are so into politics that they are devoted to only waving the flag of their party.
Absolutely! You are one the wanna be kids I knew in HS who could never fit in anywhere because of your lack of common sense and logic. Pathetic really but I suppose there is a place for everyone, somewhere, sometime.

[colosilverado]

Absolutely! You are one the wanna be kids I knew in HS who could never fit in anywhere because of your lack of common sense and logic. Pathetic really but I suppose there is a place for everyone, somewhere, sometime.

Yep, got me pegged. You are absolutely showing me who is who. I was referring to the fact that some people in this world, believe it or not, have friends and co workers who are not from here and can shed some other views of the world. People who share with you foreign language views of the US beyond what our biased media shows us or tells us.
I am a complete and utter failure. You have no clue as to my socio-economic standing, my affiliations or who I am, where I work, or where I really live but you sure do paint with a wide brush!

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Yep, got me pegged. You are absolutely showing me who is who. I was referring to the fact that some people in this world, believe it or not, have friends and co workers who are not from here and can shed some other views of the world. People who share with you foreign language views of the US beyond what our biased media shows us or tells us.
I am a complete and utter failure. You have no clue as to my socio-economic standing, my affiliations or who I am, where I work, or where I really live but you sure do paint with a wide brush!

Like this is suppose to be difficult? Your complete ignorance in world affairs gives you away immediately.

[colosilverado]

Like this is suppose to be difficult? Your complete ignorance in world affairs gives you away immediately.

Really? At least I can speak to how the world views us more than a guy who just reads whatever anti-Bush rag he/she can get a hold of. Please...stop. You win. I bow to your superior intellect. C'mon! What did I give away? I'm anxious to see.... :thanku:

[Bronco Bob]

I have no problem with the government doing whatever it takes to keep us safe. I hope they keep an extra close eye on anti-American whackos like you. ;)

The question I have is who keeps us safe from the government?

And people like you who want to turn the country into a totalitarian state.

[Spider]

Since when is the FBI controlled by the president? I'm sure if you try hard enough, you can convince yourself that Bush was the 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll and that Watergate was Bush's fault too.

LOL .......... you are so full of Shít your eyes should be brown

[Blueflame]

LOL .......... you are so full of Shít your eyes should be brown

Hey, now.... my eyes are brown..... :~ohyah!: LOL ;)

[Florida_Bronco]

Now granted I don't know all the ins and outs of the Patriot Act, but the article makes it sound like these people went outside the boundaries of the PA.

[Bronco Bob]

Now granted I don't know all the ins and outs of the Patriot Act, but the article makes it sound like these people went outside the boundaries of the PA.

Part of the reason for that is because the Patriot Act makes it easier to go
outside the boundaries. Before they had to go to a judge to get approval.
Now all they need to do is file a "letter". The letters are administrative
subpoenas that do not require a judge's approval. In this case they
weren't even bothering to do that. Having to go to a judge would have
made it more likely that they dotted all the "i"s and crossed all the "t"s.
The whole idea of the founding fathers setting up legislative, executive,
and judicial branches of the government was to cross check one another
so that one branch didn't get to powerful. It was intended to be
inefficient. The Patriot act is tending to toss the Constitution out
the window and put to much power in the executive, the branch
of government the founding fathers most wanted to reign in.

[elsid13]

Now granted I don't know all the ins and outs of the Patriot Act, but the article makes it sound like these people went outside the boundaries of the PA.

They went outside boundries of the Constitution. Protecting us from Terrorist shouldn't meaning destroying the foundation of the country.

It is a joke that there isn't an independent review by 3 panel of judges to issue the national security letter. If it's flow problem just increase the number of panels serving a region.

[colosilverado]

LOL .......... you are so full of Shít your eyes should be brown
....at least it isn't my teeth.

[colosilverado]

The question I have is who keeps us safe from the government?

And people like you who want to turn the country into a totalitarian state.

I'd rather have this than some Tango come waltzing into a Starbuck's and blow himself up like they do in other countries. You guys are so naive if you think that the same things were not happening in the past. My god, these agencies are in the business of doing shady things, yes, borderline criminal at times, for the good of the nation...and sometimes not. I have no problem admitting that. They have been doing it as long as they have been in business. Whoever your favorite president was had it happen on his watch, too. Guaranfrickinteed. It will happen on the next president's watch, too. Where will you be then? The Patriot Act also makes it easier for people to get caught if they do happen to do illegal or unconstitutional stuff. More people are watching and have the power to do something about it. Before, it just happened and nobody knew. If you think that it didn't, you are fooling yourself. You think these agencies get the information they do by following the rules???? Do you think that they aren't breaking them now? It has nothing to do with the president. Sure, there may be some things he wants to know that he asks them to get. So will the next president. There are so many things that the presidents, past and present, do not know about. These agencies are all rogues. They will kill to protect it. Read a few books from those who have been inside. They have more power than you ever dreamed.......

[Dudeskey]

http://www.justicefornone.com/images/bush-constitution11.jpg

[Dudeskey]

http://bushspeaks.com/img/bush_burns_constitution.jpg

[colosilverado]

http://bushspeaks.com/img/bush_burns_constitution.jpg

That's probably your lighter torching it.

[Spider]

Hey, now.... my eyes are brown..... :~ohyah!: LOL ;)

and a lovely shade of Brown I might add .........

[Spider]

....at least it isn't my teeth.

never met you , so wouldnt know

[Bronco Bob]

I'd rather have this than some Tango come waltzing into a Starbuck's and blow himself up like they do in other countries.

I'd rather have my freedom and rights guaranteed under the Constitution and
take my chances with the Tango, or the Twist, or the Watusi, or whatever
other dancer wants to try an come over here and cause trouble.

As Benjamin Franklin once said, "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."

[Spider]

I'd rather have this than some Tango come waltzing into a Starbuck's and blow himself up like they do in other countries.
ooooooooooooo the boogie man is gonna get us line .......... Mommie , mommie help help the boogie man is gonna get me .............Screw that let me keep what freedom I have left ........... if you are that damn scared , dont go out , stay in your house , watch reruns of Spongebob .......

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I'd rather have this than some Tango come waltzing into a Starbuck's and blow himself up like they do in other countries. Move to Cooba or China and get you some.

[colosilverado]

I'm not that paranoid that I'll stay in my house. I'm pretty sure that I could handle myself if they came knockin' too. I do work in an industry where the threat is a little more real than most of you face, so I do have a right to be a little more worried. You guys are right, let's just stay as we were. Let's keep letting these groups operate freely in our country. he funny thing is, being the anti-government and anti-Bush people that you are, they might tend to keep a closer eye on you than ordinary folks.
As for the China or Cooba comment...I don't follow. I'm sure that was some dimwitted attempt at slamming me, but it fell so short that I'm not quite sure what you're saying. At least call me ignorant or something original.

[Bronco Bob]

I'm not that paranoid that I'll stay in my house. I'm pretty sure that I could handle myself if they came knockin' too. I do work in an industry where the threat is a little more real than most of you face, so I do have a right to be a little more worried. You guys are right, let's just stay as we were. Let's keep letting these groups operate freely in our country. he funny thing is, being the anti-government and anti-Bush people that you are, they might tend to keep a closer eye on you than ordinary folks.
As for the China or Cooba comment...I don't follow. I'm sure that was some dimwitted attempt at slamming me, but it fell so short that I'm not quite sure what you're saying. At least call me ignorant or something original.

The point is not to many Tangos are coming into Cooba or China and
blowing up Starbucks. So it you don't care about your freedoms and
liberties and instead are more worried about some Tango spoiling your latte,
Cooba or China is where you'll be safer.

[Spider]

I'm not that paranoid that I'll stay in my house. I'm pretty sure that I could handle myself if they came knockin' too. I do work in an industry where the threat is a little more real than most of you face, so I do have a right to be a little more worried. You guys are right, let's just stay as we were. Let's keep letting these groups operate freely in our country. he funny thing is, being the anti-government and anti-Bush people that you are, they might tend to keep a closer eye on you than ordinary folks.
only a pussy would give up freedom in th name of security
As for the China or Cooba comment...I don't follow. I'm sure that was some dimwitted attempt at slamming me, but it fell so short that I'm not quite sure what you're saying. At least call me ignorant or something original.

no it didnt fall short ..........if fact i would say to beerslug : shoot low sheriff , this boy is mounted on a Shetland..........

[Bronco Bob]

Has anyone here ever had this happen to them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA1hyqA6UTY&search=helicopter%20pilot

[Spider]

Has anyone here ever had this happen to them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA1hyqA6UTY&search=helicopter%20pilot

I will tell you this , I had a load of Water Cooler Radiator parts ( huge coolers for power plants) out of Ingleside texas going to Craig Colorado , to that power plant on hyway 13 .........
Going into Dupont in ingleside , I went through some tough security , it is odd having a stranger go through your clothes .......
and then on the other end in Craig Colo ..........
and to get a haz mat endorsement i have to under go a FBI background check .... dont carry Haz mat anymore , it isnt worth the hassle

[cutthemdown]

Has anyone here ever had this happen to them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA1hyqA6UTY&search=helicopter%20pilot

you and this dude are brothers right?

[Spider]

this is interesting .........
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/ACLU_refutes_FBIs_claims_of_unintentional_0310.htm l
ACLU 'refutes' FBI's claims of 'unintentional' Patriot Act abuses
RAW STORY
Published: Saturday March 10, 2007
Print This Email This

On Friday, the ACLU "refuted" FBI claims of "unintentional" Patriot Act abuses in a press release sent to RAW STORY.

"Claims that the FBI’s reported Patriot Act abuses were the 'unintentional' result of outmoded computer systems and human error are not credible, the American Civil Liberties Union said today, citing evidence that agents contracted with phone companies to obtain customer records and later sought to cover up the illegal requests," the ACLU press release stated.

According to the ACLU, "The report also shows that the FBI is issuing hundreds of thousands more National Security Letters than ever imagined, and that tracking of the NSLs is sloppy, resulting in thousands of innocent Americans being entered into databases that are shared with numerous U.S. agencies and foreign governments."

"It seems that every time the American people entrust the Bush administration with some new power, it not only abuses that power but also seizes additional powers without our knowledge," ACLU Executive Director Anthony D. Romero said in the press release. "It is long past time for Congress to take back the civil liberties of the American people and right these wrongs. The Attorney General and the FBI are part of the problem and cannot be trusted to be the only solution."

Excerpts from press release:
#

The ACLU’s criticisms came in response to a report issued today by the Justice Department’s own Inspector General about abuses of Patriot Act powers used to obtain sensitive personal information such as telephone records and e-mail. The report revealed that FBI agents have issued “at least 739” so-called “exigent letters” that illegally circumvent even the scant requirements of the Patriot Act’s controversial National Security Letter (NSL) provision. In some cases, NSLs were issued “after the fact” to “cover” the illegitimate record demands, the report said.

According to the Inspector General’s report, FBI agents contracted with phone companies to improperly obtain customer records, saying that subpoenas would later be issued in connection with an underlying investigation. But in a random examination of such “exigent letters,” not one subpoena was sent, and in many cases the requests were not tied to any pending FBI investigations, in clear violation of the law.

“It simply is not credible for the FBI to claim that these unauthorized and illegal fishing expeditions were the result of human error or outmoded computer systems,” Romero said.

Romero also expressed doubt about FBI Director Mueller’s claim that no one was harmed by these massive privacy breaches, saying that customers should be alerted that their telephone and e-mail records may now be in U.S. and even foreign government databases. “We call on the FBI to immediately disclose the identity of the telecommunications companies that were involved and to notify the customers whose records were obtained about this unauthorized invasion of their privacy rights.”

Today’s report contained numerous other revelations of abuses of the National Security Letter power and other Patriot Act powers, including:

*

The FBI issued NSLs even where no underlying investigation had been approved; obtained more information from recipients than was requested; and obtained information about telephone numbers that did not belong to the target of the NSLs.
*

The violations of privacy that resulted from the FBI’s abuse of its NSL power go way beyond phone and email records and in some instances included medical records and educational records.
*

In one case, the FBI issued an NSL to a North Carolina university that sought several categories of records, including applications for admission, housing information, emergency contacts, and campus health records.
*

The FBI has no uniform system for tracking responses to National Security Letters, either manually or electronically, and is sharing information derived from NSL with numerous U.S. intelligence agencies and even foreign governments
*

The number of NSL requests reported to Congress in 2003, 2004, and 2005, were “significantly understated.” After the Patriot Act, the number of NSL requests increased from 8,500 in 2000 to approximately 39,000 in 2003, approximately 56,000 in 2004, and approximately 47,000 in 2005 – but even these numbers are incomplete because the FBI “did not consistently enter” its data.
*

Some NSL recipients erroneously provided prohibited content to the FBI, including voice messages, e-mails, and images.

The ACLU also noted that the Inspector General’s report looked at only a tiny sample of the hundreds of thousands of NSLs. That so many violations and abuses were uncovered in such a small sample points to major systemic problems with the FBI’s use of NSLs, the ACLU said.

As a result of today’s revelations, the ACLU has renewed its call to Congress to repeal the NSL provision of the Patriot Act and to exercise its oversight powers.

"Congress must fix the fundamental flaws with the Patriot Act," said Caroline Fredrickson, Director of the ACLU Washington Legislative Office. "The FBI abused the powers it was given in the Patriot Act to pry in to the private lives of more Americans than ever before in our history.”

The ACLU has successfully challenged the procedures for issuing NSLs in two separate lawsuits. The lawsuits challenge the National Security Letter provision of the Patriot Act, which authorizes the FBI to demand a range of personal records without court approval, such as the identity of a person who has visited a particular Web site on a library computer, or who has engaged in anonymous speech on the Internet. Under the expanded Patriot Act power, anyone who receives an NSL is forbidden, or "gagged" from telling anyone about the record demand.

In response to the court rulings, Congress made some minor changes to the law when it reauthorized the Patriot Act in 2006. As today’s report demonstrates, the ACLU said, those changes are not enough.

In a September 2004 ruling striking down the draconian gag provision of the NSL power, Federal District Court Judge Victor Marrero said: “As our sunshine laws and judicial doctrine attest, democracy abhors undue secrecy. An unlimited government warrant to conceal, effectively a form of secrecy per se, has no place in our open society. Such a claim is especially inimical to democratic values for reasons borne out by painful experience."

Next month Judge Marrero will hear arguments in the ACLU’s challenge to the gag and secrecy provisions of the NSL law as amended by Congress in 2006.
#

More information about the ACLU’s challenges to the NSL power can be found online at this link.

In addition, an ACLU analysis of the OIG report is online at this link and the report itself can be found here. Also, an audio file of an ACLU news conference about the report is online at this link.

[Bronco Bob]

No wonder the right wingers hate the ACLU so much. It's the only thing standing
between a full right wing dictatorship, which the right wingers so fervently want,
in the misguided notion that they will somehow be spared when all the liberals
are rounded up.

[alkemical]

I'd rather have this than some Tango come waltzing into a Starbuck's and blow himself up like they do in other countries. You guys are so naive if you think that the same things were not happening in the past. My god, these agencies are in the business of doing shady things, yes, borderline criminal at times, for the good of the nation...and sometimes not. I have no problem admitting that. They have been doing it as long as they have been in business. Whoever your favorite president was had it happen on his watch, too. Guaranfrickinteed. It will happen on the next president's watch, too. Where will you be then? The Patriot Act also makes it easier for people to get caught if they do happen to do illegal or unconstitutional stuff. More people are watching and have the power to do something about it. Before, it just happened and nobody knew. If you think that it didn't, you are fooling yourself. You think these agencies get the information they do by following the rules???? Do you think that they aren't breaking them now? It has nothing to do with the president. Sure, there may be some things he wants to know that he asks them to get. So will the next president. There are so many things that the presidents, past and present, do not know about. These agencies are all rogues. They will kill to protect it. Read a few books from those who have been inside. They have more power than you ever dreamed.......



I don't fear any terrorist. But i'm glad to see that you are scared. I guess that joke "they hate us for our freedoms" means that soon enough, they won't have to hate us.