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View Full Version : What why is everyone leaving? I'm your friendly dictator


elsid13
03-04-2007, 09:27 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070303/ap_on_bi_ge/venezuelan_flight


Rich Venezuelans heading to Florida By LAURA WIDES-MUNOZ, AP Hispanic Affairs Writer
Sat Mar 3, 3:14 PM ET



They call it "Plan B."

As Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez further tightens control of the South American country's economy, wealthy Venezuelans who once thought they could live with his socialist edicts are turning to their backup plan — flight to the United States, particularly Florida.

Venezuelans have long gobbled up condos and pre-construction deals in Florida as investments, but the latest buyers want homes where they can live and business properties that will help them earn a green card.

"First the people who come are the businessmen in the highest circles, then the losing politicians, then the military and then the professionals," said Miami-based immigration attorney Oscar Levin. "You're beginning to see the (Venezuelan) professionals."

This latest and largest potential group of emigrants say they fear the effect Chavez's socialist policies will have on the economy and on proposed educational reforms that could mirror the ideologically imbued education of Chavez ally and mentor, Cuba's Fidel Castro.

"There is so much insecurity, political insecurity, economic insecurity," said Venezuelan Miguel Medina, a business executive who moved to the Miami in August. "You don't know if a contract you signed today will be honored by the government in the future....This was definitely my plan B, but it was time to do the plan B."

Between 2000 — a year after Chavez took office — and 2005, the number of Venezuelans living in the U.S. doubled to about 160,000, according to the latest U.S. Census numbers. Nearly half live in Florida.

But those numbers are deceptive.

In 2005, 10,645 Venezuelans received their green cards allowing them to live in the United States, almost doubling the 6,222 who received them in 2004, according to the latest Department of Homeland Security statistics. And another 400,000 Venezuelans came to the United States in 2005 on business and tourism visas. It is unclear how many stayed.

Colombia, with nearly twice Venezuela's roughly 27 million residents, sent the same number that year.

Anecdotal evidence suggests even more are seeking to come here since Chavez's recent nationalization of Venezuela's largest telecommunications company and the electricity sector. The Venezuelan Congress also recently gave him special powers to decree laws for 18 months, and Chavez is threatening to expropriate supermarkets, stores and other businesses caught hoarding food or speculating on prices.

Medina said six family members visited him in the last two months seeking ways to relocate to the U.S. Unlike previous cycles, those seeking to leave and bring their money to the U.S. now are coming from around Venezuela, not just from Caracas, said Medina, an account executive for the credit group ExpoCredit.

Meanwhile Ralph Gomez, who heads the Miami area Tower Investments group and has long specialized in real estate for South American clients, said he's received more than two dozen calls since the year began from people interested in coming to the U.S. Other agents report a similar spike.

Upper-class Venezuelans and their money flowed out of the country after Chavez was elected in 1998 and again when he quashed an unsuccessful coup against his government in 2002, but many professionals still hoped the climate would remain friendly to business. Then came the latest nationalizations. Chavez still pledges to maintain a business-friendly climate, and analysts say the government has paid fair market prices to nationalize the electric and phone companies.

Yet, with 17 percent inflation pushing the Bolivar to more than 4,000 per dollar on the black market, compared to the official rate of 2,150 Bolivars per dollar, many Venezuelans are looking to move their businesses to the U.S. or to set up a new one here.

Those who can afford it often opt for business visas that require a minimum of a $500,000 investment in a company that creates jobs in an underdeveloped area in the U.S.

About 33,000 Venezuelans received some kind of work visa to come to the U.S. in 2005 — nearly a quarter of all such visas for South Americans — compared to about 17,000 in 1999.

Those who come are received with open arms in Miami, where their money is welcome and the Cuban exile community views Chavez as the next Fidel Castro. As of 2004, Venezuelans tied with Germans and Canadians as the second biggest group of foreigners purchasing homes in Florida, according to the National Association of Realtors. Only the British bought more Florida homes.

But moving to the U.S., even for the wealthy, isn't simple. Medina moved his family to the Miami three years ago, but it took him until last summer to tie up financial ends, obtain a visa and a job in Florida.

"I would travel back and forth when I could," he said. "It was hard, but I know I am among the lucky ones."

And while Venezuelan emigrants cite the political and economic instability of the country as their main reasons for leaving, many also talk of rampant and random violence.

Marbelia Font, 47, and her husband landed in Miami in September from Caracas to close on a newly built investment property. They thought their two daughters would enjoy the brief vacation.

But when two friends were fatally shot back home in Venezuela, Marbelia and her 13- and 8-year-old daughters stayed. Her husband returned to Venezuela, hoping to earn a visa by moving his manufacturing and construction business to the U.S. Font said he has struggled to obtain necessary legal documents from the Chavez government.

She now lives in the half-furnished home they'd planned to rent in Doral, just west of Miami. It is decorated only with a picture of her husband and the girls. She and her daughters struggle with loneliness, and she is unable to work as she waits for the family's visas to come through.

"It is so hard because the girls were very close to their father, and now they only

elsid13
03-04-2007, 09:29 AM
Well the good news old Chavez is sending us his best. Nice to have smart professionals bringing funds to investment in the economy.

loborugger
03-04-2007, 03:29 PM
I think Comrade LABF was Chavez's biggest and probably only supporter on the forum. And he doesnt show up much anymore.

I took spanish lessons this last summer and my instructor was from VZ. He was exiled here from VZ. His choice was to leave or go to prison. He was a lawyer, son of a doctor and a member of the opposition party there in the country. He told me about some strange goings on that are just now getting the light of day here in the USA. Personally, I dont think Chavez has the staying power of Castro. He is too loony and doesnt have the Soviet Union to prop him up. But, unfortunately, I think it will take the Venezuelan people many years to clean up the mess that Chavez is making.

yavoon
03-04-2007, 03:48 PM
chavez is the most democratically elected leader of any country ever!

yavoon
03-04-2007, 03:54 PM
Well the good news old Chavez is sending us his best. Nice to have smart professionals bringing funds to investment in the economy.

a lot of countries send us their talented ppl(france, india, china, etc etc), the sad part is these are the ppl that are easiest to keep out. so we always choke them off first when we scare on immigration. even though they are wonderful for us.

bendog
03-05-2007, 09:56 AM
Problem is Chavez IS democratically elected, yavoon, and to thank for that we have the oligarchy that ruled the country without concern for the vast majority and the reagan, bushi, clinton and bushii administrations.

yavoon
03-05-2007, 12:24 PM
Problem is Chavez IS democratically elected, yavoon, and to thank for that we have the oligarchy that ruled the country without concern for the vast majority and the reagan, bushi, clinton and bushii administrations.

thats what I said! HAIL CHAVEZ!

Rohirrim
03-05-2007, 12:31 PM
Now, Chavez is seeing assassins behind every curtain. Yesterday, he said that Rice's deputy, Negroponte, is a "professional killer." It won't be long before the arrests begin on the streets of Caracas - if they haven't started already. Anyone who has ever expressed any opposition to Chavez whatsover, if they know what's good for them, better get out of there ASAP. The same old Commie dictator BS. Actually, the greatest favor the U.S. could do for Venezuela would be to whack this turd. But we won't. I guess we'll find out much later how many he will have tortured and killed. A new generation of desaparecidos. Of course, since it is now a commie killing people, he won't get assistance from the U.S. the way Pinochet and the Argentinians did. The new genocide: If you can't find the bodies, no genocide took place. (The Argentinians dropped theirs in the ocean)

W*GS
03-05-2007, 01:19 PM
Interestingly, the most pro-Chavez English website, 'vheadline', is offline. Apparently permanently. Pity. Would have been interesting to read their apologia...

broncocalijohn
03-06-2007, 05:27 AM
Only thing going for Chavez is that they are rich in oil unlike Cuba. He is running his country to have the poor try to keep it going. Good luck dumbass. Sad to see people in dire need of getting out of their country. Work hard, build equity and a business than get screwed.

W*GS
03-06-2007, 11:16 AM
The United States and Latin America

Mr Bush goes south
Mar 1st 2007
From The Economist print edition

How America can win the battle for influence against Venezuela's Hugo Chávez

http://www.economist.com/images/20070303/0907LD2.jpg
Reuters

If you are George Bush, the prospect of spending a week in Latin America must be appealing just at the moment. How better to escape an unappreciative Congress and ungrateful Middle East? And if during the Latin American tour he starts on March 8th Mr Bush bumps into the odd demonstration, so what? That can happen anywhere nowadays.

Mr Bush cannot be completely relaxed in Latin America. The United States is locked in a regional battle for influence with Venezuela's oil-intoxicated autocrat, Hugo Chávez. Yet the worst thing for Mr Bush to do if he wants to win that battle is to talk too much about Venezuela on this trip: that would only puff Mr Chávez up further, and attract the usual Latin grumbles about yanqui bullying. So it is excellent that Mr Bush intends to spend most of his time in the region's three most populous countries, Brazil, Mexico and Colombia.

Mr Bush has serious business to do at each stop (see article). Brazil is one of many countries in Latin America that could supply the world with cheap ethanol if only the United States scrapped the tariffs and subsidies that protect its own less efficient maize and sugar farmers. Colombia needs continued American help against the cocaine gangs and the violence they spawn. In Mexico Mr Bush will have to talk about immigration. Tighter security has made it much harder for Mexican workers to cross illegally into the United States, but their labour is still needed and Mexico is still waiting for America to come up with a way to let more enter legally.

If he offered more help on these fronts, Mr Bush could give Latin Americans the sense of partnership with the United States that is missing at present. But to do so he will have to take some work home. For on immigration and trade it is now Congress rather than the White House that holds the key to progress. And although immigration reform still looks possible, the trade outlook is bleaker. The Democrats who control Congress may in the coming months approve free-trade deals with Peru and Panama, but look set to block one with Colombia because they are angry about revelations linking Álvaro Uribe's government to right-wing paramilitary groups. Mr Bush needs to persuade Congress that that would be a mistake. The revelations have come to the surface because of the growing vigour of democracy in the less violent Colombia Mr Uribe has delivered. He deserves continued support.

Respect sovereignty, but speak up for democracy too
As for Venezuela, Mr Chávez is no friend of the United States (he calls it simply “the empire”) and seems to enjoy the company of other anti-American demagogues, from Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to London's publicity-hungry mayor, Ken Livingstone. But if he poses a danger, it is to the rest of Latin America, where his simplistic ideas are sometimes popular, rather than to the United States, which even after the mid-term elections does not seem to be lusting for a “Bolivarian revolution”. By the same token, it is the other governments of Latin America, rather than the United States, that are best placed to counter his influence.

They have no right to interfere with his programme of nationalisation, however wrongheaded it may be, or the rest of his economic policy: those things are the sovereign business of Venezuela. And it is a mere three months since Venezuelans gave Mr Chávez a strong mandate in a pretty fair election. Yet his neighbours should not allow the money and cheap oil Mr Chávez splashes around their region to stop them from speaking out when he appears to be hollowing out democracy in a part of the world where it is still fragile. Mr Chávez is promising to silence the main opposition television station. He has given himself powers to rule by decree for the next 18 months and proposes to scrap the term limits in the constitution so that he could stand for re-election indefinitely.

Brazil's Lula says that he quietly urges moderation on his Venezuelan counterpart, but there is no evidence that this is changing Mr Chávez's direction of travel. If he continues on the same path, Latin America's democrats will soon have to consider whether he belongs in their clubs. Mr Bush should meanwhile concentrate less on what he would like the rest of Latin America to do to Mr Chávez and more on what the United States can do for the rest of Latin America.

Stop helping Fidel
One of the biggest gestures Mr Bush could make would be to support moves to scrap the United States' unfair and counter-productive trade embargo against Cuba, a country that no longer poses any threat to the United States and whose people are now daring to contemplate what a post-Castro future might look like. Slamming the door on closer economic co-operation in the Americas, whether inspired by protectionism or ideology, is a gift to Mr Chávez and his supporters in other countries. If the United States wants a hemisphere led by pro-market democrats, it should give the region's people every help they need to work and trade their way to prosperity.

Copyright © 2007 The Economist Newspaper and The Economist Group. All rights reserved.