DAN WILKINSON: Setting the Record Straight

[BroncoBuff]

I can't stand all the Big Daddy hating I'm seeing in here. Dan Wilkinson is the perfect signing for us! I was pimping him all over the place a year ago when he was a free agent (and we coulda got him for nothing): Click Here (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1132881&highlight=wilkinson#post1132881), Click Here (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1236804&highlight=wilkinson#post1236804), Click Here (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1222288&highlight=wilkinson#post1222288) , Click Here (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1236694&highlight=wilkinson#post1236694).

He's an experienced wide-body run-stuffer who'll help our mini-LB corps roam free.

Yes, it's very similar to the Michael Dean Perry and Luther Elliss signings, and lots of guys dismiss Wilkinson because of those guys, blah, blah, blah. But remember: Perry was terrific for a couppla years there (despite the best memory of him being the 96 Jax playoff game - not his fault) - and Elliss was a rock in the 2004 playoff run when Pryce was out and the D-Line was fielding no-talents off the street like Anton Palepoi, Ellis Johnson and Monsanto Pope (all of whom are outta the league now).

And please repeat after me: Dan Wilkinson is NOT injury-prone! Before this season, he missed only SEVEN GAMES in TWELVE years:

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4589/daddywf6.jpg


Yes, his numbers were declining in Detroit, but they were over-working him (ironically, in response to losing Elliss). Here he'll play half the snaps - tops. And a guy like this - similar to semi-primadonnas like Gerard Warren in Cleveland -- a lotta his game is about desire, and last year's Dolphins, any Lions team, and the Spurrier and Marty Redskins must've left his desire wanting.

Here - he has a realistic shot at a ring, and he knows it. With a healthy 10-toed Warren and Veal, this position just went from the shakiest on the team to very solid.

[Kaylore]

The rotating scrubs was part of Coyer's scheme. I'm not sure that we're going to do the same thing under Bates. We'll see, I guess.

[Jens1893]

The rotating scrubs was part of Coyer's scheme. I'm not sure that we're going to do the same thing under Bates. We'll see, I guess.

We´ll have to rotate for the simple fact that Wilkinson can´t play full time anymore.

[BroncoBuff]

Yes .... a rotation, no doubt. Wlkinson is a 20 plays a game guy - but they're gonna be a solid 20.

[crazyhorse]

I can't stand all the Big Daddy hating I'm seeing in here. Dan Wilkinson is the perfect signing for us! I was pimping him all over the place a year ago when he was a free agent (and we coulda got him for nothing): Click Here (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1132881&highlight=wilkinson#post1132881), Click Here (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1236804&highlight=wilkinson#post1236804), Click Here (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1222288&highlight=wilkinson#post1222288) , Click Here (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1236694&highlight=wilkinson#post1236694).

He's an experienced wide-body run-stuffer who'll help our mini-LB corps roam free.

Yes, it's very similar to the Michael Dean Perry and Luther Elliss signings, and lots of guys dismiss Wilkinson because of those guys, blah, blah, blah. But remember: Perry was terrific for a couppla years there (despite the best memory of him being the 96 Jax playoff game - not his fault) - and Elliss was a rock in the 2004 playoff run when Pryce was out and the D-Line was fielding no-talents off the street like Anton Palepoi, Ellis Johnson and Monsanto Pope (all of whom are outta the league now).

And please repeat after me: Dan Wilkinson is NOT injury-prone! Before this season, he missed only SEVEN GAMES in TWELVE years:

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4589/daddywf6.jpg


Yes, his numbers were declining in Detroit, but they were over-working him (ironically, in response to losing Elliss). Here he'll play half the snaps - tops. And a guy like this - similar to semi-primadonnas like Gerard Warren in Cleveland -- a lotta his game is about desire, and last year's Dolphins, any Lions team, and the Spurrier and Marty Redskins must've left his desire wanting.

Here - he has a realistic shot at a ring, and he knows it. With a healthy 10-toed Warren and Veal, this position just went from the shakiest on the team to very solid.

BB, you are absolutely one of my favorite posters, but man that was a totally homeristic take on a guy that has been mediocre and declining for some time.

[Natedogg]

But remember: Perry was terrific for a couppla years there (despite the best memory of him being the 96 Jax playoff game - not his fault)

???

Please clarify.

[MileHighMania]

I was lost when I heard 5 syllables in your note... Michael Dean Perry.

[broncswin]

I think big daddy will be fine here in denver, I don't see a pro bowl year out of the guy, but as long as he can stuff the middle when he's in there and pull a double team, then he will be doing his job.

[DenverBrit]

I think big daddy will be fine here in denver, I don't see a pro bowl year out of the guy, but as long as he can stuff the middle when he's in there and pull a double team, then he will be doing his job.

Amen......now please cover your avatar. ugh!~ ;D

[bpc]

The sad part is picking up "grand daddy", we have improved the position tremendously.

I just recall visions of Larry Allen blowing back our DT's 3 yards a pop in the season finale that cost us the season. Hopefully never again with Bates at the helm.

[BroncoBuff]

BB, you are absolutely one of my favorite posters, but man that was a totally homeristic take on a guy that has been mediocre and declining for some time.

I pimped him like a maniac all last offseason, so I wanted to defend the signing ... especially the misconception that he's injury-prone.

AND: It can't be underemphasized that his reputation is like Warren's in Cleveland: prima-donna with a "takes too many plays off" rap. I think that after 4 years with putrid Bengals, 5 years with the Marty-ball and Spurrier circus in DC, 4 years in the black hole of Detroit, and one very forgettable Dolphins season .... he is FINALLY with a first-class organization with a real chance to win.

IMO, he won't be taking any of his 20 plays a game off here. We'll get all he has.

[BroncoBuff]

???
Please clarify.
If I'm not mistaken, Slap is working on some theories about the officials in that game ....






:~ohyah!:

[Drek]

Wilkinson gets more hate than he deserves after being a 1st overall pick and having some issues with Cincy's front office back in the day. He's had a very solid career, much better pass rushing skills than most guys his size, he just wasn't the all world super star that everyone expected of him.

Turning 35 next week I don't think thats particularly changed. He's lost a lot of the burst that made him an effective pass rusher, but he's still very stout against the run and he carries 340 pounds better than pretty much any guy in the league. As a 1st and 2nd down run stuffing DT he fits what we needed on this line perfectly. A late sixth is more than fair, he'll easily take 20+ yards away from the opposition's running game each Sunday.

[Rohirrim]

If that's the way the Broncos wanted to go (a two down run stuffing DT) I would prefer they had just kept that 6th and drafted Louis Leonard out of Fresno State. Get the same player with brand new legs and a twenty year old's body.

Louis Leonard DT Fresno St
6'5", 320


STRENGTHS

Louis is one of the biggest DT’s in this draft. He is a two-down, run-stuffing DT that every team needs to stop the run in the NFL. He does an excellent job of locking on to the man (or men) in front of him and controlling him so that the LB’s can come up and make a play. Louis has good feet; he does a solid job keeping his gap responsibilities while going down the line on sweeps and cut back plays. He understands his job and responsibilities and has no problems with doing the dirty work that is required of a DT in run defense. Louis is quick enough and strong enough to give you the push you need off the line to flush a QB out of the pocket on passing downs. He is a complete DT, but his strength for the next level will be in stuffing the run.



NEEDS TO IMPROVE

It would be nice to see him jump higher, run faster and be able to leap small buildings in a single bound – but it’s just not going to happen. He will be an excellent, taken for granted, run stuffing DT that plays better than he looks.



TALENT BOARD ROUND: 3

Do you want to know why the Seattle Seahawks and their defense failed to make the Super Bowl this year? The downfall started when Marcus (Moby) Tubbs was injured. Year after year, we go through this in the draft. Run-stuffing DT’s are taken for granted and rated low, but at the same time, everyone agrees you need a kid like this to stop the run to get to the big game. I know that Louis does not look very athletic. But that’s not the point. The point is, he can play! I’m telling you that not only can he play, but he also will help a team right away. I rate players like Louis -- who can stop the run -- as important to a team’s success the same way most people rate having good special teams unit. To me, a run-stuffing DT is like a special teams player and if you do not have a good one, then like a team with bad special teams, your team will fail. It’s just that simple. I always rate these guys higher than they are picked in the draft. But the funny thing about that is that players like Louis always seem to live up to where I rate them after it is all said and done. Maybe it’s me that has to learn that players like Louis should be taken for granted. No - I don’t think that’s going to happen because as long as the success rate of a defense is directly related to how well a defense can stop the run – I will continue to try to make everyone understand that players like Louis are worth their weight in gold and that’s a whole lot of gold in Louis’ case! Look for Louis to be picked some time on the second day of the draft and then look right in the middle of your defensive line when a running play against your team has been stopped at the line of scrimmage. I guarantee you Louis will be in the middle of the pile doing his job and letting someone else get the credit for the tackle.

[Drek]

If that's the way the Broncos wanted to go (a two down run stuffing DT) I would prefer they had just kept that 6th and drafted Louis Leonard out of Fresno State. Get the same player with brand new legs and a twenty year old's body.

Louis Leonard DT Fresno St
6'5", 320


STRENGTHS

Louis is one of the biggest DT’s in this draft. He is a two-down, run-stuffing DT that every team needs to stop the run in the NFL. He does an excellent job of locking on to the man (or men) in front of him and controlling him so that the LB’s can come up and make a play. Louis has good feet; he does a solid job keeping his gap responsibilities while going down the line on sweeps and cut back plays. He understands his job and responsibilities and has no problems with doing the dirty work that is required of a DT in run defense. Louis is quick enough and strong enough to give you the push you need off the line to flush a QB out of the pocket on passing downs. He is a complete DT, but his strength for the next level will be in stuffing the run.



NEEDS TO IMPROVE

It would be nice to see him jump higher, run faster and be able to leap small buildings in a single bound – but it’s just not going to happen. He will be an excellent, taken for granted, run stuffing DT that plays better than he looks.



TALENT BOARD ROUND: 3

Do you want to know why the Seattle Seahawks and their defense failed to make the Super Bowl this year? The downfall started when Marcus (Moby) Tubbs was injured. Year after year, we go through this in the draft. Run-stuffing DT’s are taken for granted and rated low, but at the same time, everyone agrees you need a kid like this to stop the run to get to the big game. I know that Louis does not look very athletic. But that’s not the point. The point is, he can play! I’m telling you that not only can he play, but he also will help a team right away. I rate players like Louis -- who can stop the run -- as important to a team’s success the same way most people rate having good special teams unit. To me, a run-stuffing DT is like a special teams player and if you do not have a good one, then like a team with bad special teams, your team will fail. It’s just that simple. I always rate these guys higher than they are picked in the draft. But the funny thing about that is that players like Louis always seem to live up to where I rate them after it is all said and done. Maybe it’s me that has to learn that players like Louis should be taken for granted. No - I don’t think that’s going to happen because as long as the success rate of a defense is directly related to how well a defense can stop the run – I will continue to try to make everyone understand that players like Louis are worth their weight in gold and that’s a whole lot of gold in Louis’ case! Look for Louis to be picked some time on the second day of the draft and then look right in the middle of your defensive line when a running play against your team has been stopped at the line of scrimmage. I guarantee you Louis will be in the middle of the pile doing his job and letting someone else get the credit for the tackle.

1. Leonard might not be there at the later half of the sixth round.

2. Leonard has no NFL experience. How many second day picks step into rotational starting spots and succeed their first year?

I think we'll still take a DT in the draft, hopefully on the first day, and let them rotate in on passing situations for Wilkinson. My ideal would be drafting Carriker in round 1 or Brandon Mebane in round 2 with a big run stuffer, maybe that gigantic Williams kid, on the second day. Then we can rotate a pass rusher on 3rds and 4ths with a big run stuffer backup.

[spdirty]

I just hope he can do what Jumpy did for us 11 years ago.

[Atlas]

If that's the way the Broncos wanted to go (a two down run stuffing DT) I would prefer they had just kept that 6th and drafted Louis Leonard out of Fresno State. Get the same player with brand new legs and a twenty year old's body.

Louis Leonard DT Fresno St
6'5", 320


STRENGTHS

Louis is one of the biggest DT’s in this draft. He is a two-down, run-stuffing DT that every team needs to stop the run in the NFL. He does an excellent job of locking on to the man (or men) in front of him and controlling him so that the LB’s can come up and make a play. Louis has good feet; he does a solid job keeping his gap responsibilities while going down the line on sweeps and cut back plays. He understands his job and responsibilities and has no problems with doing the dirty work that is required of a DT in run defense. Louis is quick enough and strong enough to give you the push you need off the line to flush a QB out of the pocket on passing downs. He is a complete DT, but his strength for the next level will be in stuffing the run.



NEEDS TO IMPROVE

It would be nice to see him jump higher, run faster and be able to leap small buildings in a single bound – but it’s just not going to happen. He will be an excellent, taken for granted, run stuffing DT that plays better than he looks.



TALENT BOARD ROUND: 3

Do you want to know why the Seattle Seahawks and their defense failed to make the Super Bowl this year? The downfall started when Marcus (Moby) Tubbs was injured. Year after year, we go through this in the draft. Run-stuffing DT’s are taken for granted and rated low, but at the same time, everyone agrees you need a kid like this to stop the run to get to the big game. I know that Louis does not look very athletic. But that’s not the point. The point is, he can play! I’m telling you that not only can he play, but he also will help a team right away. I rate players like Louis -- who can stop the run -- as important to a team’s success the same way most people rate having good special teams unit. To me, a run-stuffing DT is like a special teams player and if you do not have a good one, then like a team with bad special teams, your team will fail. It’s just that simple. I always rate these guys higher than they are picked in the draft. But the funny thing about that is that players like Louis always seem to live up to where I rate them after it is all said and done. Maybe it’s me that has to learn that players like Louis should be taken for granted. No - I don’t think that’s going to happen because as long as the success rate of a defense is directly related to how well a defense can stop the run – I will continue to try to make everyone understand that players like Louis are worth their weight in gold and that’s a whole lot of gold in Louis’ case! Look for Louis to be picked some time on the second day of the draft and then look right in the middle of your defensive line when a running play against your team has been stopped at the line of scrimmage. I guarantee you Louis will be in the middle of the pile doing his job and letting someone else get the credit for the tackle.

Who is to say they won't draft this kid, fact is he won't be ready to be a starter in the NFL. People are saying that now that Denver got Wilkinson they are no longer going to draft a DL... That's is absurd. Wilkinson is a stop gap and Denver still has the need for a 1st or 2nd round Dlinemen whether it's a DE or a DT.

[Barry Ramey]

But they want a starter at DT. A guy drafted in the 6th round isn't likely going to start. I know Wilkinson isn't a "sexy" choice, but he's a solid and hopefully will tie up OL so our LB's are more free to make plays.

[Rohirrim]

We'll see. IMO, picking up Big Daddy is just a continuation of a failed policy - trying to build a Dline with patches. The Broncos need to do what they did with Dbacks - Go into the draft and come out with three of them. Build a Dline from the ground up. Go out and draft Carriker AND Bazuin/Mebane/MacDonald/Leonard, etc. Use their first three picks on the D line. Give Bates the fresh ammunition coming right out of the gate. This is the draft to do it. I haven't seen this many, good, solid Dlinemen in a single draft in years. Wilkinson is just a new plug in a very old hole.

[Rohirrim]

1. Leonard might not be there at the later half of the sixth round.

2. Leonard has no NFL experience. How many second day picks step into rotational starting spots and succeed their first year?

I think we'll still take a DT in the draft, hopefully on the first day, and let them rotate in on passing situations for Wilkinson. My ideal would be drafting Carriker in round 1 or Brandon Mebane in round 2 with a big run stuffer, maybe that gigantic Williams kid, on the second day. Then we can rotate a pass rusher on 3rds and 4ths with a big run stuffer backup.

Leonard is coming out of the same program as Logan Mankins. Pat Hill gets his guys coached up. He will hit the field in his first season. I guarantee it.

[frerottenextelway]

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4589/daddywf6.jpg




He had an 88 yard INT return? Wow, that must've been a thing of beauty!

Anyways, it is what it is. We gave up a late 6th round draft pick, he was worth about a late 6th round draft pick.

[TheChamp24]

The problem with rookie DL is, especially DT's, they rarely have success their first season. I don't see any rookie DT making a strong contribution this year, other than being a good rotation guy coming in every now and then.
This doesn't mean we won't get 2 DL in the draft. I don't get where people are coming from that this means we won't look at DL in the draft.

[rovolution]

I just hope he can do what Jumpy did for us 11 years ago.

Jumpy was the reason Alfred Williams and Dean-Perry both went to the Pro Bowl in 1996.

If he is anything like Jumpy, then we will be a dominant squad.

[Orange_Beard]

If Bates wants this guy, I am cool with it.

[spdirty]

Jumpy was the reason Alfred Williams and Dean-Perry both went to the Pro Bowl in 1996.

If he is anything like Jumpy, then we will be a dominant squad.

yep. Even Alfred said that.

[Drek]

Leonard is coming out of the same program as Logan Mankins. Pat Hill gets his guys coached up. He will hit the field in his first season. I guarantee it.

Mankins jumped how much further up in the draft than most expected? Yeah, like a round, and that was a 2nd to 1st round jump. If Leonard is really so NFL ready as a run stuffer he'll go late first day or very early second. I don't think there is any way he lasts to the 21st pick in the 6th round, so its not like Wilkinson is taking Leonard off the table for us.

I think the big key here is that no capable DT was going to sign for the $2M Wilkinson gets paid in '07, giving up a late day 2 pick to get him at a discount is worth it as it saves cap room but gets us the big veteran body Bates needs to quickly shift gears to his defensive system.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I'm not wasting time reading all this but this guy is a 4th stringer who was going to be CUT and who we could have had for FREE...in Miami they're celebrating that they got a 6th rounder out of us for him so what does that tell you? He was even behind a rookie 7th rounder and a guy even older than him on the depth chart. For a top pick in the entire draft to be on his 5th team now...that should tell you all you need to know. He's not Michael Dean Perry...please...MDP had a high motor...this dude reminds me of some of the big fat Raider DT's that look imposing in a uniform but that's about it. I have no problem with him coming here if Shanny wants another fat guy in the middle of the line...but my problem is that we do this crap every single year...all because we refuse to spend high draft picks on defensive linemen. The sad legacy of underachievers here....goes on and on. I'd like an OT in the first round and a DT in the second but I'd settle for visa versa too...but I know that will not happen now that we have our newest "solution" at defensive tackle. Add him to the list of Gardner, Dalton, Chester the Buffet Molestor, etc...just another over the hill has been who never lived up to his promise. I'd much rather have the Nigerian 19 year old in the draft and start him rather than this guy.

[Gcver2ver3]

I can't stand all the Big Daddy hating I'm seeing in here. Dan Wilkinson is the perfect signing for us! I was pimping him all over the place a year ago when he was a free agent (and we coulda got him for nothing): Click Here (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1132881&highlight=wilkinson#post1132881), Click Here (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1236804&highlight=wilkinson#post1236804), Click Here (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1222288&highlight=wilkinson#post1222288) , Click Here (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1236694&highlight=wilkinson#post1236694).

He's an experienced wide-body run-stuffer who'll help our mini-LB corps roam free.

Yes, it's very similar to the Michael Dean Perry and Luther Elliss signings, and lots of guys dismiss Wilkinson because of those guys, blah, blah, blah. But remember: Perry was terrific for a couppla years there (despite the best memory of him being the 96 Jax playoff game - not his fault) - and Elliss was a rock in the 2004 playoff run when Pryce was out and the D-Line was fielding no-talents off the street like Anton Palepoi, Ellis Johnson and Monsanto Pope (all of whom are outta the league now).

And please repeat after me: Dan Wilkinson is NOT injury-prone! Before this season, he missed only SEVEN GAMES in TWELVE years:

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4589/daddywf6.jpg


Yes, his numbers were declining in Detroit, but they were over-working him (ironically, in response to losing Elliss). Here he'll play half the snaps - tops. And a guy like this - similar to semi-primadonnas like Gerard Warren in Cleveland -- a lotta his game is about desire, and last year's Dolphins, any Lions team, and the Spurrier and Marty Redskins must've left his desire wanting.

Here - he has a realistic shot at a ring, and he knows it. With a healthy 10-toed Warren and Veal, this position just went from the shakiest on the team to very solid.

good point as usual buff.....i agree whole-heartedly

[Drek]

I'm not wasting time reading all this but this guy is a 4th stringer who was going to be CUT and who we could have had for FREE...in Miami they're celebrating that they got a 6th rounder out of us for him so what does that tell you? He was even behind a rookie 7th rounder and a guy even older than him on the depth chart. For a top pick in the entire draft to be on his 5th team now...that should tell you all you need to know. He's not Michael Dean Perry...please...MDP had a high motor...this dude reminds me of some of the big fat Raider DT's that look imposing in a uniform but that's about it. I have no problem with him coming here if Shanny wants another fat guy in the middle of the line...but my problem is that we do this crap every single year...all because we refuse to spend high draft picks on defensive linemen. The sad legacy of underachievers here....goes on and on. I'd like an OT in the first round and a DT in the second but I'd settle for visa versa too...but I know that will not happen now that we have our newest "solution" at defensive tackle. Add him to the list of Gardner, Dalton, Chester the Buffet Molestor, etc...just another over the hill has been who never lived up to his promise. I'd much rather have the Nigerian 19 year old in the draft and start him rather than this guy.
Of course you would, because your football knowledge extends just about as far as what you can glean from finheaven and what you dream up to support your rhetoric.

Rookies rarely ever start, Okoye in particular shouldn't. Especially not in Bates' system which is predicated on big bodied DTs taking up running lanes and freeing the LBs and DEs to make plays.

Why trade for Wilkinson instead of waiting for him to be cut? Because he'd likely command more than the $2M we'll pay him next year, and he'd probably get some guaranteed money for a second year. This way we can cut him as soon as we don't care for his production and only gave up a late day 2 pick to get him at half the cost most DTs will go at in this market.

Comparing him to the previous retreads we brought in is pretty off base too, most of those guys got big contracts, all of them got more than Wilkinson is getting in salary from us. He's a cheap rotational piece, not an every down, 3 to 4 year starter like most of those guys were signed to be.

And at least wait until the draft before you start whining about a $2M no bonus money DT that the team has even said is going to be a rotational guy preventing us from drafting another DT. Should I stress the "rotational guy" part of that for you? Who is he currently going to rotate with, Veal? I don't think so. The FO is planning to add more to the DL, just hold the hissy fit a few more months and the draft will be here.

[TheChamp24]

I'm not wasting time reading all this but this guy is a 4th stringer who was going to be CUT and who we could have had for FREE...in Miami they're celebrating that they got a 6th rounder out of us for him so what does that tell you? He was even behind a rookie 7th rounder and a guy even older than him on the depth chart. For a top pick in the entire draft to be on his 5th team now...that should tell you all you need to know. He's not Michael Dean Perry...please...MDP had a high motor...this dude reminds me of some of the big fat Raider DT's that look imposing in a uniform but that's about it. I have no problem with him coming here if Shanny wants another fat guy in the middle of the line...but my problem is that we do this crap every single year...all because we refuse to spend high draft picks on defensive linemen. The sad legacy of underachievers here....goes on and on. I'd like an OT in the first round and a DT in the second but I'd settle for visa versa too...but I know that will not happen now that we have our newest "solution" at defensive tackle. Add him to the list of Gardner, Dalton, Chester the Buffet Molestor, etc...just another over the hill has been who never lived up to his promise. I'd much rather have the Nigerian 19 year old in the draft and start him rather than this guy.

First of all, if he was cut, that means 31 other teams could sign him, and who knows, maybe someone else would give him a 1 year, $3mil deal and outbid us.
Second, your thinking is what is irritating, of how since we got Wilkinson, that means we won't get a DL in the draft. Are you Shanahan's brother or something? We could very well draft a DT in the 2nd.
As for Okoye, you can quote me on saying he won't be a factor his 1st year. Down the line I see it, but this upcoming year, if he were to start, I bet people would be a little frustrated with him, probably like what Chief fans had with Simms.

[BroncoBuff]

I still like Brandon Mebane in the 2nd if possible .... although the Louis kid from Fresno State that Rohirrim and Drek are pimping sounds pretty good too.

[gunns]

Michael Dean Perry Yikes!

If I'm not mistaken, Slap is working on some theories about the officials in that game ....

Shanahan must have missed that.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Who is to say they won't draft this kid, fact is he won't be ready to be a starter in the NFL. People are saying that now that Denver got Wilkinson they are no longer going to draft a DL... That's is absurd. Wilkinson is a stop gap and Denver still has the need for a 1st or 2nd round Dlinemen whether it's a DE or a DT.

Here's a list of the number of times we used stop gaps and the number of times we drafted D-line in the first two rounds during the Shanahan era. Obviously it's not absurd...it's standard practice for us to ignore the position in the draft. What's absurd is that you don't recognize it after 12 years.

Number of Stop Gap D-Linemen in Denver

1. Perry
2. Geathers
3. Traylor
4. Dalton
5. Ellis
6. McGlockton
7. Lett
8. Pittman
8. Brown
9. Engleberger
10. Warren
11. Wilkinson

Number of D-Linemen taken in the First 2 Rounds

1. Trevor Pryce
2. Montae Reagor
3. Paul Toviessi

[Rascal]

Apparently the raiders released Hawthorne. I wouldn't mind signing him to the league min and giving him a shot. He has plenty of talent that's for sure.

[Drek]

I still like Brandon Mebane in the 2nd if possible .... although the Louis kid from Fresno State that Rohirrim and Drek are pimping sounds pretty good too.

I wouldn't say I'm pimping Leonard, he's a pretty good run stopping DT and I think people will be surprised how high he'll go (4th round, or a 4th/5th sandwich comp).

I'd prefer Mebane in the 2nd or Soliai in the late 3rd. Probably even that monster Wiliams who played for a community college, based on potential alone.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Of course you would, because your football knowledge extends just about as far as what you can glean from finheaven and what you dream up to support your rhetoric.
I've been watching this game for almost 40 years...played it in college also, so don't lecture me about who knows the game because you have no idea what I know. The fact that you think Dan freaking Wilkerson is going to make an impact...a 4th string, washed up, over the hill, underachiever who has NEVER been even close to what he was supposed to be on the field...versus a guy that was playing college football at age 16, and looks like the second coming of John Randle or Warren Sapp, speaks volumes about what you don't know and portrays you as completely clueless. Whether he starts or not...the kid has one thing this fat turd doesn't...a high motor and passion for the game.
Why trade for Wilkinson instead of waiting for him to be cut? Because he'd likely command more than the $2M we'll pay him next year, and he'd probably get some guaranteed money for a second year. This way we can cut him as soon as we don't care for his production and only gave up a late day 2 pick to get him at half the cost most DTs will go at in this market.
Why pay $2 million for a 4th stringer who can't even beat out a 7th round draft pick? Huh genius?
Comparing him to the previous retreads we brought in is pretty off base too, most of those guys got big contracts, all of them got more than Wilkinson is getting in salary from us. He's a cheap rotational piece, not an every down, 3 to 4 year starter like most of those guys were signed to be.
Yet an idiot like you would rather have him than a young guy that will probably go in the top 10 in the draft who might start for ten years. Brilliant.
The FO is planning to add more to the DL, just hold the hissy fit a few more months and the draft will be here.
We've taken 3 defensive linemen in 11 drafts...22 rounds of opportunity for a defensive lineman in the first two rounds...that means we take one 13.6% of the time in the top 2 rounds, and in virtually every year we had a need at the position, so you're full of crap if you think that the front office is automatically going to pick a D-line guy in the top 2 rounds. BTW...I've been talking about our D-line philosophy for years, including well before last years draft as well...you just dont' recognize what's going on...and I'll continue to talk about it whether you like it or not.

[Florida_Bronco]

Well damn, if you aren't the most negative poster I've ever seen. Let me see just how much of this junk I can discredit.

I'm not wasting time reading all this

So you just want to come in here and spread your doom and gloom around, right?

but this guy is a 4th stringer who was going to be CUT and who we could have had for FREE...in Miami they're celebrating that they got a 6th rounder out of us for him so what does that tell you? He was even behind a rookie 7th rounder and a guy even older than him on the depth chart.

He was not a 4th stringer, he was a backup at one of the DT spots. From what I have gathered, they used him as a backup because they were concerned about over-working him, even though he was a fulltime starter for 3 years in Detroit. Also, be careful of the information you get from Finheaven.com, they are as a clueless and delusional bunch as the Crap Planet posters.

For a top pick in the entire draft to be on his 5th team now...that should tell you all you need to know.

He's been in the league for 14 years and never spent less than 3 years with any team save for the Dolphins.

He's not Michael Dean Perry...please...MDP had a high motor...this dude reminds me of some of the big fat Raider DT's that look imposing in a uniform but that's about it.

He's not Michael Dean Perry? Well no ****, Einstein. MDP was a totally different type of player. Wilkinson is a big fatass DT who ties up blocks and pushes the pocket. MDP was more like Gerard Warren then Wilkinson.

I have no problem with him coming here if Shanny wants another fat guy in the middle of the line...

Then what do you keep b****ing about? ???

but my problem is that we do this crap every single year...all because we refuse to spend high draft picks on defensive linemen. The sad legacy of underachievers here....goes on and on. I'd like an OT in the first round and a DT in the second but I'd settle for visa versa too...but I know that will not happen now that we have our newest "solution" at defensive tackle.

Who said that we won't still draft DL in this draft? Now you're just making assumptions and then b****ing about them.

Add him to the list of Gardner, Dalton, Chester the Buffet Molestor, etc...just another over the hill has been who never lived up to his promise. I'd much rather have the Nigerian 19 year old in the draft and start him rather than this guy.

Gardner's problems weren't on the field, they were off the field. Dalton was a nobody with the Ravens who we experimented with. McGlockton was a solid player for a couple years with us despite his age. Okoye will require moving up more than a few spots to get him, and even then he's still a rookie who has a 50-50 chance of being sucessful.

Whew, I feel better now.

[broncs2bowl]

Great reply Florida__Bronco....I dont understand what is wrong with getting someone ideal for Bates' system. Young DTs dont come in and start also we have got insurance policy for ptential busts. Also what makes you think we wont take DL in round 1 or 2. I think we go DL both. We get Carriker or Johnson in round 1 and Mebane, Marcus Thomas or Kareem Brown round 2. STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS!

[Florida_Bronco]

Great reply Florida__Bronco....I dont understand what is wrong with getting someone ideal for Bates' system. Young DTs dont come in and start also we have got insurance policy for ptential busts. Also what makes you think we wont take DL in round 1 or 2. I think we go DL both. We get Carriker or Johnson in round 1 and Mebane, Marcus Thomas or Kareem Brown round 2. STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS!

Thanks man. The way I figure it, Bates has been one of the best DC's in the game recently, and if he feels that getting Wilkinson is a good move for the type of defense he wants to install, then he gets the benefit of the doubt.

[footstepsfrom#27]

He was not a 4th stringer, he was a backup at one of the DT spots. From what I have gathered, they used him as a backup because they were concerned about over-working him, even though he was a fulltime starter for 3 years in Detroit. Also, be careful of the information you get from Finheaven.com, they are as a clueless and delusional bunch as the Crap Planet posters.
He was a 4th stringer. He was barely used, and the team's official website doesn't even list him. They list Vonnie Holliday, Jeff Zgonia, and rookie Chase Page as the DT's and Keith Traylor and Frederick Evans at the other DT spot...so at BEST he might be considered a 3rd stringer...obviously he wasn't good enough to play for their team or they'd have wanted to keep him.
He's been in the league for 14 years and never spent less than 3 years with any team save for the Dolphins.
That's a crap record considering he played for the Bengals, Skins and Lions before Miami...three teams that all sucked during the time he played there, yet they didn't want him either.
He's not Michael Dean Perry? Well no ****, Einstein. MDP was a totally different type of player. Wilkinson is a big fatass DT who ties up blocks and pushes the pocket. MDP was more like Gerard Warren then Wilkinson.
I meant that Perry was GOOD...this guy's not.
Then what do you keep b****ing about? ???
It's a free country...deal with it.
Who said that we won't still draft DL in this draft? Now you're just making assumptions and then b****ing about them.
Our draft history says I have an 86.4% chance of being right...that's more than an assumption.
Gardner's problems weren't on the field, they were off the field.
He sucked on the field also.
Dalton was a nobody with the Ravens who we experimented with. McGlockton was a solid player for a couple years with us despite his age. Okoye will require moving up more than a few spots to get him, and even then he's still a rookie who has a 50-50 chance of being sucessful.
Wilkinson has no chance of being successful. I'll take 50/50 over that.

[DrFate]

Low risk move - I like it

[footstepsfrom#27]

Also what makes you think we wont take DL in round 1 or 2. I think we go DL both. We get Carriker or Johnson in round 1 and Mebane, Marcus Thomas or Kareem Brown round 2. STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS!
I'm tired of repeating it. See post 33.

[Florida_Bronco]

I'm tired of repeating it. See post 33.

Don't worry, I'm working on blowing that argument out of the water as well.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Don't worry, I'm working on blowing that argument out of the water as well.
You're going to prove we drafted more than the 3 defensive linemen that I listed in the top 2 rounds? Good luck with that...

[TheChamp24]

I've been watching this game for almost 40 years...played it in college also, so don't lecture me about who knows the game because you have no idea what I know. The fact that you think Dan freaking Wilkerson is going to make an impact...a 4th string, washed up, over the hill, underachiever who has NEVER been even close to what he was supposed to be on the field...versus a guy that was playing college football at age 16, and looks like the second coming of John Randle or Warren Sapp, speaks volumes about what you don't know and portrays you as completely clueless. Whether he starts or not...the kid has one thing this fat turd doesn't...a high motor and passion for the game.


First off, Wilkinson wasn't 4th string last year, as others have noted.
2nd, Okoye, it is questionable whether he turns into John Randle or Ryan Simms, that Sullivan guy the Saints drafted a couple years ago, and countless other DT's drafted high that went nowhere.

Why pay $2 million for a 4th stringer who can't even beat out a 7th round draft pick? Huh genius?

Third, again, Wilkinson wasn't a 4th stringer, but look at other DT's, if he was cut, he would've gotten paid more IMO. Why are you being so prissy about this?

Yet an idiot like you would rather have him than a young guy that will probably go in the top 10 in the draft who might start for ten years. Brilliant.

Fourth, who says we don't want a young DT in the draft? Where did that come from? I would still take Okoye or Branch, I just don't think they will make an impact their rookie season.

Lastly, you are making a huge assumption, and seriously, who the heck pissed in your cheerio's? I don't know why you acting so pissed off at this move.
Seriously, what are you going to do when draft day comes, and we spend 2 picks on the DL?

[yerner]

This is awesome. Dan W. has spawned a two page thread. Unbelievable.

Seriously, no one should be this interested in this topic. HaHa. the mane is great for argument.

[Florida_Bronco]

Here's a list of the number of times we used stop gaps and the number of times we drafted D-line in the first two rounds during the Shanahan era. Obviously it's not absurd...it's standard practice for us to ignore the position in the draft. What's absurd is that you don't recognize it after 12 years.

Number of Stop Gap D-Linemen in Denver

1. Perry
2. Geathers
3. Traylor
4. Dalton
5. Ellis
6. McGlockton
7. Lett
8. Pittman
8. Brown
9. Engleberger
10. Warren
11. Wilkinson

Number of D-Linemen taken in the First 2 Rounds

1. Trevor Pryce
2. Montae Reagor
3. Paul Toviessi

Things like this really make me question your football knowledge. Do you even know what a "stop gap" player is? Judging by the list you posted, you obviously don't.

1. Perry...Not what I would call a stop gap. He had plenty of years left when we signed him to a hefty contract but didn't really pan out for us.

2. Geathers...was a stop gap player, but he was very effective for us in his brief stint with Denver.

3. Traylor...was a 3rd round pick of the Broncos who returned after 4 ineffective years with the Chiefs and was a major part of our SB runs. Definetly not a stop gap. He was also brought back the same year we drafted Pryce.

4. Dalton...was a 5th year relatively unknown player with the Ravens who had a large amount of potential and we took a flyer on. He does not fit the definition of a stop gap player.

5. Ellis...was a stop gap player.

6. McGlockton...fits the defintion of a stop gap player, but he was very solid for us while he was here.

7. Lett...stop gap player

8. Courtney Brown...not a stop gap player. We took a chance on him hoping that he would stay healthy, which unfortunately has not happened, but he would have been a long term solution had he stayed healthy.

9. Engleberger...not a stop gap player. JE was a former starter and high motor player who was leaving the 49ers because he didn't fit their new scheme and we got him by trading a broken down 1st round pick. He'll probably be a solid rotation player in Denver for the next several years.

10. Warren...was DEFINETLY not a stop gap player. He was a young player who hadn't played up to potential but was traded for with every intention of being a long term solution.

11. Wilkinson...is a stop gap player.

So you got 5 out of 11 right. Well, if it makes you feel any better, you could have done alot worse.

[Florida_Bronco]

He was a 4th stringer. He was barely used, and the team's official website doesn't even list him. They list Vonnie Holliday, Jeff Zgonia, and rookie Chase Page as the DT's and Keith Traylor and Frederick Evans at the other DT spot...so at BEST he might be considered a 3rd stringer...obviously he wasn't good enough to play for their team or they'd have wanted to keep him.

Unfortunately it seems he was removed from the depth charts after the trade, so I can't confirm that he was the 2nd player on the depth chart with the Dolphins. The article on the Dolphins website says that he was injured last year though, which would probably explain alot of that.

That's a crap record considering he played for the Bengals, Skins and Lions before Miami...three teams that all sucked during the time he played there, yet they didn't want him either.

How do you know which teams wanted him and didn't want him. It could have been HIS choice to leave those teams for more money, better team...etc.

I meant that Perry was GOOD...this guy's not.

Wilkinson has been a good player throughout his career, although he is called an underachiever due to his draft status.

It's a free country...deal with it.

I can deal with. Can you deal with me torpedoing all of your negative arguments?

Our draft history says I have an 86.4% chance of being right...that's more than an assumption.

As referenced in my previous post, you don't even understand what a true stop gap player is, so your percentage is greatly skewed.

He sucked on the field also.

Daryl Gardener? No, he didn't.

Wilkinson has no chance of being successful. I'll take 50/50 over that.

Now you are just being overly negative again. There is a better chance than not that Wilkinson will come in and do what we ask him to do and do it well.

[footstepsfrom#27]

First off, Wilkinson wasn't 4th string last year, as others have noted.
Would it make you feel better if I said he was 3rd string? The Dolphins official website does not even list him on the depth chart. There are two guys lited at one DT spot and 3 at the other...5 interior defensive line guys listed at two spots...and fat boy isn't one of them. So I'll give you the 3rd stringer spot instead...feel better now about his chance to make an impact?
2nd, Okoye, it is questionable whether he turns into John Randle or Ryan Simms, that Sullivan guy the Saints drafted a couple years ago, and countless other DT's drafted high that went nowhere.
You mean like Wilkerson? He's the classic example of a DT drafted high who went nowhere.
Third, again, Wilkinson wasn't a 4th stringer, but look at other DT's, if he was cut, he would've gotten paid more IMO. Why are you being so prissy about this?
I don't care if they got him for free. My point is that this is what we always do...grab some piece of junk off the scrap heap and claim it's valuable because somebody thought so 10 years ago. Get a clue...this is the way we operate in the Shanahan era and I posted the names to prove it.
Fourth, who says we don't want a young DT in the draft? Where did that come from?
Eleven years of draft history says so.
Lastly, you are making a huge assumption, and seriously, who the heck pissed in your cheerio's? I don't know why you acting so pissed off at this move.
My assumption is based on our prior history. Yours are based on what you hope will happen...in other words, WISHFUL THINKING. Might you be correct? Sure...you have a 13.6% chance of it based on our prior history.
Seriously, what are you going to do when draft day comes, and we spend 2 picks on the DL?
6th and 7th rounders? Probably yawn and say I told you so.

[DBroncos4life]

Could we really not find a guy to give us 20 plays a game without trading a pick? Robaire Smith is fat and can play more downs per game.

[BroncoBuff]

I agree with Florida's numbers and most of his capsules. But I must say I don't have big problems with stopgap players in general - at a few positions anyway. (You forgot Ellis Johnson and Raylee Johnson and Marques (?) Washington).

We're perfect at DT:

1) A longterm vet - Wilkinson
2) A Pro-Bowl caliber coming into his prime - Warren
3) A young buck just signed longterm - Veal
4) Hopefully a promising rookie - Mebane

[DenverBrit]

Bates is making the calls on the D.

If he says that Big Daddy has enough in the tank to help the Broncos rotation........works for me.

[gunns]

I don't mind the trade for Wilkinson at all as far as depth, but 2 mil to a guy that was playing 3rd string???

[TheChamp24]

Would it make you feel better if I said he was 3rd string? The Dolphins official website does not even list him on the depth chart. There are two guys lited at one DT spot and 3 at the other...5 interior defensive line guys listed at two spots...and fat boy isn't one of them. So I'll give you the 3rd stringer spot instead...feel better now about his chance to make an impact?

You mean like Wilkerson? He's the classic example of a DT drafted high who went nowhere.

I don't care if they got him for free. My point is that this is what we always do...grab some piece of junk off the scrap heap and claim it's valuable because somebody thought so 10 years ago. Get a clue...this is the way we operate in the Shanahan era and I posted the names to prove it.

Eleven years of draft history says so.

My assumption is based on our prior history. Yours are based on what you hope will happen...in other words, WISHFUL THINKING. Might you be correct? Sure...you have a 13.6% chance of it based on our prior history.

6th and 7th rounders? Probably yawn and say I told you so.

Maybe the Dolphins site doesn't list him because he isn't on the roster anymore? Just maybe?
Wilkinson wasn't worth the #1 overall pick in hindsight, but he was decent. We aren't expecting him to make a huge impact, but he will be helpful for the team.
And by the way, statistics are lies. Heck, if we look at prior drafts, we should be drafting a RB from Georgia in the 2nd day of the draft since we've had success there. Remember how we never took an OL early until Foster? That changed, why can't we change and take DL early this draft?
Of course it might be wishful thinking, but it might be reality that we are looking at DL in the draft. Seriously, all this % stuff and statistics is bull crap. We can come up and say that the Broncos have a 100% probability to trade up or down based on the past 2 years. What does that say?
In the end, Wilkinson helps the Broncos, a little bit, gets another veteran who can come in about 1/3 or 1/2 of the snaps to help stuff the line and take up blockers. We probably will add a rookie to help come in and rotate with another guy.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Things like this really make me question your football knowledge. Do you even know what a "stop gap" player is? Judging by the list you posted, you obviously don't.

1. Perry...Not what I would call a stop gap. He had plenty of years left when we signed him to a hefty contract but didn't really pan out for us.
Plenty of years left? He played 2 1/2 years for us...guess in your world that qualilfies as "plenty of years"...he went to 6 pro bowls, but only one with us in 1996, and was cut the following year and picked up by the Chiefs, so he played 1995-1997 halfway through the year...2 1/2 years...classic definition of a stop gap player.
2. Geathers...was a stop gap player, but he was very effective for us in his brief stint with Denver.

3. Traylor...was a 3rd round pick of the Broncos who returned after 4 ineffective years with the Chiefs and was a major part of our SB runs. Definetly not a stop gap. He was also brought back the same year we drafted Pryce.
Playing next to Pryce, Neil Smith and Alfred Anderson helped him quite a bit. Decent player, but no pro bowler that's for sure. He played 4 years...a high draft choice can be expected to play at least 8...so yes...he was a stop gap.
4. Dalton...was a 5th year relatively unknown player with the Ravens who had a large amount of potential and we took a flyer on. He does not fit the definition of a stop gap player.
That's the perfect definition of stop gap...temporary guy you take while you're waiting on something better...how is that not a stop gap? It is.
5. Ellis...was a stop gap player.

6. McGlockton...fits the defintion of a stop gap player, but he was very solid for us while he was here.

7. Lett...stop gap player

8. Courtney Brown...not a stop gap player. We took a chance on him hoping that he would stay healthy, which unfortunately has not happened, but he would have been a long term solution had he stayed healthy.
Courntney Brown is not a stop gap player? BAAHAAAA! That's crazy...anyone on this board with an ounce of sense would say he's the very definition of a stop gap player. You're way overreaching here.
9. Engleberger...not a stop gap player. JE was a former starter and high motor player who was leaving the 49ers because he didn't fit their new scheme and we got him by trading a broken down 1st round pick. He'll probably be a solid rotation player in Denver for the next several years.
Gimme a break...he's nothing but a rotational guy whether you want to call him "high motor" or not makes no difference. The point is he's not the answer we need, which makes him a temporary (stop gap) player.
10. Warren...was DEFINETLY not a stop gap player. He was a young player who hadn't played up to potential but was traded for with every intention of being a long term solution.
So in other words he was an underachiever that wasn't wanted by his former team and we thought we could turn him into a long term answer..."good intentions" mean he's not a stop gap I guess...LOL...whatever dude...he's been less than advertized and may not even resign here...classic stop gap guy.
11. Wilkinson...is a stop gap player.

So you got 5 out of 11 right. Well, if it makes you feel any better, you could have done alot worse.
I got them all right. You don't understand what "stop gap" means...a temporary solution but not the long term answer...none of these guys were long term answers and the longest of them lasted 4 years...big freaking deal.

[Florida_Bronco]

I don't mind the trade for Wilkinson at all as far as depth, but 2 mil to a guy that was playing 3rd string???

He was banged up last year. He was a fulltime starter for the 3 years prior to last.

[Florida_Bronco]

Plenty of years left? He played 2 1/2 years for us...guess in your world that qualilfies as "plenty of years"...he went to 6 pro bowls, but only one with us in 1996, and was cut the following year and picked up by the Chiefs, so he played 1995-1997 halfway through the year...2 1/2 years...classic definition of a stop gap player.

He was cut because he wasn't playing that well for us.

Playing next to Pryce, Neil Smith and Alfred Anderson helped him quite a bit. Decent player, but no pro bowler that's for sure. He played 4 years...a high draft choice can be expected to play at least 8...so yes...he was a stop gap.

Traylor actually played 6 years in Denver, just in different stints. He's been a solid player ever since we let him go (which was a mistake) and no, he's not a stop gap player.

That's the perfect definition of stop gap...temporary guy you take while you're waiting on something better...how is that not a stop gap? It is.

We took him with every intention of having a potential long term solution. Just because he didn't work out doesn't make him a stop gap player.

Courntney Brown is not a stop gap player? BAAHAAAA! That's crazy...anyone on this board with an ounce of sense would say he's the very definition of a stop gap player. You're way overreaching here.

We took a chance on Courtney hoping he would be a long term solution, but he only had 1 healthy year here.

Gimme a break...he's nothing but a rotational guy whether you want to call him "high motor" or not makes no difference. The point is he's not the answer we need, which makes him a temporary (stop gap) player.

He's not even a starter (yet) for the Broncos, so really that would disqualify him from being a stop gap player.

So in other words he was an underachiever that wasn't wanted by his former team and we thought we could turn him into a long term answer..."good intentions" mean he's not a stop gap I guess...LOL...whatever dude...he's been less than advertized and may not even resign here...classic stop gap guy.

No, going after him as a long term solutions means he's not a stop gap player.

I got them all right. You don't understand what "stop gap" means...a temporary solution but not the long term answer...none of these guys were long term answers and the longest of them lasted 4 years...big freaking deal.

You got 5 out of 11 right. Most people who know football will tell you that a stop gap player is an aging veteran who will give you a year or 2 of solid play while you groom younger players. That alone disqualifies several players on your list. Also, when you sign a player to be a long term solution (like Kavika Pittman) he doesn't soundly become a "stop gap" just because he didn't work out.

Guys like McGlockton, Wilkinson, Eliss and Lett are players that fit the definition of stop gap. Also, this may come as a huge shock to you, but players like that are integral to the success of football teams. We can't have young talented studs at every position, no matter how much we would like to.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Unfortunately it seems he was removed from the depth charts after the trade, so I can't confirm that he was the 2nd player on the depth chart with the Dolphins. The article on the Dolphins website says that he was injured last year though, which would probably explain alot of that.
The Miami fans say he was playing behind Jeff Zgonia...who is 35 years old...so at best he's 3rd string because he played behind Holliday. If it makes you feel better I'll say he was still ahead of the 7th round rookie free agent they picked up off SD's practice squad. Big whoop.
How do you know which teams wanted him and didn't want him. It could have been HIS choice to leave those teams for more money, better team...etc.
He was cut in Detroit too...and he played in Cincinatti, Detroit and Washington when they stunk and Miami when they stunk too...so I doubt he left to play on better teams from Cincy and Washington. Money? Maybe so...that seems to be all that motivated him. It certainly wasnt' trying to be the best. All that talent and so little to show for it...just the type of guy we like on our D-line.

[footstepsfrom#27]

(You forgot Ellis Johnson and Raylee Johnson and Marques (?) Washington).
Well I wasn't trying to list every stiff who ever came through here...LOL...but that does make it look even worse doesnt' it?

We're perfect at DT:

1) A longterm vet - Wilkinson
2) A Pro-Bowl caliber coming into his prime - Warren
3) A young buck just signed longterm - Veal
4) Hopefully a promising rookie - Mebane

You think Warren is a pro bowl caliber player? Wow...I don't even know what to say to that...LOL

[footstepsfrom#27]

He was banged up last year. He was a fulltime starter for the 3 years prior to last.
Well he was cut by Detroit in 2005 and if he was a full time starter prior to this he sucked even more than I thought. In his last 70 games he has a whopping 6 1/2 sacks...the equivilent of one every 11 games. Sure I know he's a run stuffer...blah blah blah...so what? He was a mediocre player on bad teams whose been overpaid because he was the first pick in the draft.

He's Courtney Brown without the injury excuses.

[Play2win]

Amen......now please cover your avatar. ugh!~ ;D

What do you mean, they're Denver's new off season acquisition for DT... ;D

[Play2win]

Big Daddy is in the select group, Sam Adams included, that can change a whole D-Line just by themselves.

But, does he still got IT...

Thats why they are called MERCENARIES...

[SureShot]

I think you have to take into account where the Broncos have been drafting the past 11 years. Can't miss DL go fast in the draft and most times the difference between a DL that goes in the second round and in the third and fourth rounds are marginal.

[Florida_Bronco]

Well he was cut by Detroit in 2005 and if he was a full time starter prior to this he sucked even more than I thought. In his last 70 games he has a whopping 6 1/2 sacks...the equivilent of one every 11 games. Sure I know he's a run stuffer...blah blah blah...so what? He was a mediocre player on bad teams whose been overpaid because he was the first pick in the draft.

He's Courtney Brown without the injury excuses.

Keith Traylor never got many sacks either. Why? Because like Wilkinson, he's a lard ass who job is to tie up blockers and free up other players. Surely, even you can understand that.

[footstepsfrom#27]

He was cut because he wasn't playing that well for us.



Traylor actually played 6 years in Denver, just in different stints. He's been a solid player ever since we let him go (which was a mistake) and no, he's not a stop gap player.



We took him with every intention of having a potential long term solution. Just because he didn't work out doesn't make him a stop gap player.



We took a chance on Courtney hoping he would be a long term solution, but he only had 1 healthy year here.



He's not even a starter (yet) for the Broncos, so really that would disqualify him from being a stop gap player.



No, going after him as a long term solutions means he's not a stop gap player.



You got 5 out of 11 right. Most people who know football will tell you that a stop gap player is an aging veteran who will give you a year or 2 of solid play while you groom younger players. That alone disqualifies several players on your list. Also, when you sign a player to be a long term solution (like Kavika Pittman) he doesn't soundly become a "stop gap" just because he didn't work out.

Guys like McGlockton, Wilkinson, Eliss and Lett are players that fit the definition of stop gap. Also, this may come as a huge shock to you, but players like that are integral to the success of football teams. We can't have young talented studs at every position, no matter how much we would like to.
Dude...you can spin this nonsense anyway you want to, but the bottom line is that all these guys were temporary fixes that lasted a couple of years on average and most of them were barely even serviceable, let alone great players. My point, which you are bound and determined to remain blinded to, is that this franchise under Shanahan has not attempted to spend signficant attention or resources on our defensive line through the draft, where young players are found. Instead we continuously launch the next great hope every year with these over the hill has beens or never weres. The long list of these guys dwarfs the measly 3 players we took in the top two rounds.

I rest my case and have no more time to waste trying to make you understand plain English or common sense. If you love the fact that another big lazy stiff is here that got cut for the 2nd time because his former team didn't want him and you think Jim Bates will magically turn this guy into the next big deal, well go ahead...there's nothing I can do to stop you.

Bye.

[Florida_Bronco]

Dude...you can spin this nonsense anyway you want to, but the bottom line is that all these guys were temporary fixes that lasted a couple of years on average and most of them were barely even serviceable, let alone great players. My point, which you are bound and determined to remain blinded to, is that this franchise under Shanahan has not attempted to spend signficant attention or resources on our defensive line through the draft, where young players are found. Instead we continuously launch the next great hope every year with these over the hill has beens or never weres. The long list of these guys dwarfs the measly 3 players we took in the top two rounds.

None of this has to do with the fact that you don't know what a "stop gap" player is. You are simply getting angry now and spewing your tripe without even addressing my arguments.

I never said that the Broncos didn't address the D-line in the draft that often. Rather, they have gone to FA for both stop gap and long term help. Sometimes it works, sometimes it hasn't.

I rest my case and have no more time to waste trying to make you understand plain English or common sense. If you love the fact that another big lazy stiff is here that got cut for the 2nd time because his former team didn't want him and you think Jim Bates will magically turn this guy into the next big deal, well go ahead...there's nothing I can do to stop you.
Bye.

Meanwhile, you can continue to be the ultimate negative poster (which you've been ever since I can remember) and spread your doom and gloom everywhere on the forum. Oh, and you can try and twist my words to make it seem like I think Wilkinson will be the "next big deal" but I never said anything of the sort. I simply think Wilkinson will be effective doing what we ask him to do and free up our other linemen to better do their jobs.

Thanks for attempting to play your little negativity game with me. I'm sure you'll spread your poisonious tripe other places on this forum, and when that happens I will be more than happy to blow holes in those arguments too.

[usedupbraids]

wow we signed http://orangemane.com/BB/images/icons/icon1.gif DAN WILKINSON wow

[Atlas]

I've been watching this game for almost 40 years...

All that explains it. You're senile.

[Natedogg]

If I'm not mistaken, Slap is working on some theories about the officials in that game ....






:~ohyah!:

Come on, now. All I saw was his fat ass loafing off the field during a punt and giving the jags a new set of downs. You have to back up your previous statment with more than "Slap is working on some theories" Jesus! :spit: Not saying MDP was a bad player, but he deserves all the grief he gets for the Jville game.

[ro_50]

This is an exciting thread to read for a player Denver gave up a 6th round pick for :>

Obviously I wasn't here when Denver signed Kavika Pittman, but I wonder how that move was critiqued.

[DenverBrit]

What do you mean, they're Denver's new off season acquisition for DT... ;D

Makes sense........they look way too big :strong: for the O line. ;D

[-Slap-]

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4589/daddywf6.jpg


Dan Wilkinson has as many interceptions in his career as Ian Gold and DJ Williams combined.

[ZONA]

We'll see. IMO, picking up Big Daddy is just a continuation of a failed policy - trying to build a Dline with patches. The Broncos need to do what they did with Dbacks - Go into the draft and come out with three of them. Build a Dline from the ground up. Go out and draft Carriker AND Bazuin/Mebane/MacDonald/Leonard, etc. Use their first three picks on the D line. Give Bates the fresh ammunition coming right out of the gate. This is the draft to do it. I haven't seen this many, good, solid Dlinemen in a single draft in years. Wilkinson is just a new plug in a very old hole.


I concur. I don't think having big daddy will hurt at all but I still would like to see #1 #2 as DT and DE, then Saftey and then add another DT and then another DT and then another DT and then.......oh, you get the point!

The best way to beat Manning is not by trying to mask a coverage, it don't matter, he'll beat it every time if he has the time to throw. We need pressure, pressure and more pressure in the backfield. Period.

[listopencil]

I concur. I don't think having big daddy will hurt at all but I still would like to see #1 #2 as DT and DE, then Saftey and then add another DT and then another DT and then another DT and then.......oh, you get the point!

The best way to beat Manning is not by trying to mask a coverage, it don't matter, he'll beat it every time if he has the time to throw. We need pressure, pressure and more pressure in the backfield. Period.



Yep. I like the signing for depth if nothing else. I used to think DE was a harder position to learn, but I've been told countless times in the last few years by people who I respect that DT is the harder spot. I want the best D-Lineman available at our first pick. I'd still rather have a DT, but DE works for me if they get a quality DT on the first day as well. Wilkinson will come in handy as the guy our draft pick has to beat for a spot on the active roster come game day. Then Wilkinson can go into the rotation to keep our interior fresh.

[yerner]

look, as long as he makes the team getting big daddy is a good move. he's professional. you cant always be sure you draft that in the 6th round. he can bring some locker room vibe. probably a dude that the coaches and older guys are happy to have around. i like it. its just weird.

[cutthemdown]

I don't mind the trade for Wilkinson at all as far as depth, but 2 mil to a guy that was playing 3rd string???

2 mil is dirt cheap

[chaz]

try to tell shanahan he cant win it this year.....

[bendog]

Only thing I have against the guy is that he should be sued for having that nickname and not playing up to the standards it should compell.

[-Slap-]

Only thing I have against the guy is that he should be sued for having that nickname and not playing up to the standards it should compell.

I think you'll find a lot of Big Daddy's don't live up to the hype. Even Gene "Big Daddy" Lipscomb, probably the scariest Big Daddy ever, never fully lived up to his limitless potential.

[phibacka31]

I like this trade. He's that BIG DT body that bates reallys likes. Him and warren should be able to do some damage. I bet we pick another DT in the draft:strong:

[MileHighMania]

I still look at the fact that Big Daddy was drafted when our coach was Wade Phillips and wonder what he really has left in the tank.

[watermock]

10 years late.

[FantomForce]

There weren't many people that were excited when we signed Neil Smith, and didn't he come here to win a superbowl?

[MileHighMania]

Neil was entering his 9th season when he signed with Denver and he was a top performer at his position. This will be Big Daddy's 14th season, right?

[Rohirrim]

Has anybody checked to see if this guy enjoys late night pancakes? ;D

[MileHighMania]

Dude is near 350 lbs... I'd bet on it.

[-Slap-]

I imagine he'll eat anything that can't escape him.

[azbroncfan]

He had an 88 yard INT return? Wow, that must've been a thing of beauty!

Anyways, it is what it is. We gave up a late 6th round draft pick, he was worth about a late 6th round draft pick.

No Sh!t, any skilled postion player on that offense whoever it was against should be ashamed.