Plummer gives Denver one last mile high salute

[watermock]

WTF was the FO thinking? I just read Jake has filed his papers for retirement...so now, Tampa owns his rights...in other words, we are without recourse regarding his remaining SB.

Jake keeps his stash, we will never get some imaginary conditional pick, and are left holding a bag of flaming poop. Now TB can trade his rights for whatever they get for free, likely to Houston. Why did we trade Jake to TB when they had allready signed Garcia?

What a major ****up unless I'm missing something.

[RMT]

Regardless, Plummer will owe the Broncos a prorated portion of his SB for the years remaining on his contract. That number is north of $5 million and could be as much as $7 mil.

[ayjackson]

I read somewhere that they wrote a clause into the deal that Denver would retain its rights to recover unearned signing bonus.

I'm not sure if that would still help the cap hit though - depends on the fine wording of the CBA.

[theAPAOps5]

Exactly, we have recourse. We have the right to recoup 5mil possibly 7mil.

[watermock]

I read somewhere that they wrote a clause into the deal that Denver would retain its rights to recover unearned signing bonus.

I'm not sure if that would still help the cap hit though - depends on the fine wording of the CBA.

Well, that's news to me, but it's hard enough to recover SB yet alone some questionable language that will have to be likely litigated. I'm not sure that would even stand up.

[Sodak]

I wonder why the SB is even up for discussion. He should hand over the money. Simple. Cut and dry. You'd think that they'd have this **** figured out by now. What's there to mediate?

[watermock]

I wonder why the SB is even up for discussion. He should hand over the money. Simple. Cut and dry. You'd think that they'd have this **** figured out by now. What's there to mediate?

If you trade his rights, you accept all of the SB. Period. If you think he will just "hand it over" your crazy.

[Sodak]

Right. I guess I'm anxious to be done with Plummer.

Maybe the league needs a "fill in the blank" contract for all the players so everybody, including the teams, knows what the hell is going on.

[Broncojef]

If you trade his rights, you accept all of the SB. Period. If you think he will just "hand it over" your crazy.

I don't know the ins and outs but I think because of what Shanny and the broncos did they have cleared up roughly $5Mill in cap space for this year (Graham and Henry are you listening?). It was clear there was going to be drama with this retirement and Shanny wanted to know where he stood cap wise prior to his visitors and not play the waiting game with Jake. I think this deal set in stone what Shanny had at his fingertips in deal making $$$ to make the team better irregardless of what Jake wants.

[watermock]

I'm more concerned about the distraction than anything else...

[Rock Chalk]

Im not a capologist. I think it sucks. BUt Im confused on something.

Why does any player have to pay back a "signing bonus"? Base pay for the contract unfullfilled I get, pay that back. But why the signing bonus?

Has any player not fought through mediation in a situation like this? Just given the money back, without a fight?

[watermock]

Capology should be taught at Denver University...unfortunately, every four years, what you learn becomes obsolete.

[Broncojef]

Im not a capologist. I think it sucks. BUt Im confused on something.

Why does any player have to pay back a "signing bonus"? Base pay for the contract unfullfilled I get, pay that back. But why the signing bonus?

Has any player not fought through mediation in a situation like this? Just given the money back, without a fight?

if he lives up to his end of the contract the money is guaranteed...even if he is cut. But to retire or plain quit means he didn't live up to his end of the contract. Since the bonus is usually given up front to escape large year to year salaries against the cap the bonus is prorated against the length of the contract. Since there are years Jake won't play that initial money paid to him as a signing bonus is due for the 3 years he quit.

[Rock Chalk]

if he lives up to his end of the contract the money is guaranteed...even if he is cut. But to retire or plain quit means he didn't live up to his end of the contract. Since the bonus is usually given up front to escape large year to year salaries against the cap the bonus is prorated against the length of the contract. Since there are years Jake won't play that initial money paid to him as a signing bonus is due for the 3 years he quit.

But Denver isnt owned any money becaue they traded away the rights to him correct? If he stays retired, doesnt Tampa have recourse to get money he owes on the signing bonus? Why does Denver? They traded him.

Whats the status of Plummer. Is he technically a Bronco or a Buc?

[Rascal]

Looks like his retirement is official:

http://www.jakeplummerfoundation.org/


And then this article recenlty put up on DPO:

End the speculation. Jake Plummer is not vacillating. The Broncos quarterback formally announced his retirement on his Jake Plummer Foundation website Saturday.

Ignore wild speculation Plummer is trying to pull a fast one by retiring as a tactical maneuver to force a trade somewhere other than Tampa Bay, and to a situation where he has a greater chance to start.

When trying to go inside the mind of former Broncos quarterback Jake Plummer, believe his mom, believe his older brother, refer to the retirement papers he already has filed with the NFL office.

Plummer has retired from the NFL after 10 seasons, the last four with the Broncos. He began filing papers late Friday, according to a source close to Plummer. The league office will begin reviewing them when it opens Monday.
"He hinted even before this season started that this would be his last year," said Brett Plummer, Jake's older brother. "At the time, I took with it a grain of salt. But Jake is his own man and if he feels it's time, then it's time."

While Plummer apparently had made up his mind about retirement weeks ago, his decision became known Friday when the Broncos traded him to Tampa Bay for a middle-round draft pick. Surprised the quarterback was not only willing to surrender the remaining three years left on his contract that would pay him $5.3 million in 2007, but perhaps be forced to refund the Broncos approximately $5 million in prorated signing bonus, Denver and Tampa Bay regrouped and finalized a contingency trade Saturday.

Plummer's rights now belong to the Buccaneers. If he decides to end his retirement and play within the next calendar year, the Broncos would receive a contingency draft pick in 2008.

"I think Jake Plummer will play again," Tampa Bay general manager Bruce Allen said.

In still another twist to the bizarre saga, Allen predicted Plummer's return at the same news conference Saturday in which he announced the signing of another veteran quarterback, Jeff Garcia, to a two-year contract.

The mixed signals sent by Allen should not confuse Broncos fans. Plummer has retired.

"Yes, that's it," said Marilyn Plummer, Jake's mother, when asked if her son had retired. "I thought this would happen from the moment the season ended. He needs a break but I foresee him doing something else. He's a lot like Pat Tillman. Pat would do something unexpected. Jake used to say, 'I wonder what Pat would have done next.' Jake is a lot like Pat. He has that same rebel soul."

Tillman, who was Plummer's friend and teammate with the Arizona Cardinals, turned down a $3.6 million contract extension in May 2002 to enlist in the U.S. Army. He served in Iraq and later Afghanistan, where he was killed April 22, 2004, by friendly fire.

Plummer, 32, is walking away from even more money. There had been speculation Plummer was trying to force a trade to the Houston, where he would be reunited with former Broncos offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak. But the Texans did not want to surrender a draft pick for Plummer and trade talks between the teams quickly evaporated.

"The most absurd thing out there is Jake is doing this as some kind of ploy," a Plummer associate said. "Is there anyone in this world you would least expect to be part of a ploy than Jake? This is no ploy."

In other respects, Plummer's retirement more closely resembles that of New York Giants running back Tiki Barber. Like Plummer, Barber surprisingly retired after 10 productive seasons.

"Jake loved football, but at the same time, he did not like the other aspects that came with being a professional quarterback," Brett Plummer said. "He didn't like the quarterback limelight. He just wanted to hang out and be a regular guy.

"And, also, in spite of playing such a physically demanding position for 10 years, Jake is in good health. He wants to leave with his health intact because there's other things he wants to do. He's into backpacking and handball and he wants to start a family. He wants to make sure he's healthy enough to play one- on-one with his kid in the backyard."

Whatever opinions Broncos fans had of Plummer, everyone had to agree he was a one and only. He was a right-handed quarterback who once tried to throw left- handed. He was a free-spirited but highly competitive leader who a year ago brought Denver to the AFC title game, only to show up to the pregame news conference with hair flowing to his shoulders, full beard, jeans and undershirt.

He spent Friday morning explaining to his agents and Tampa Bay officials why he was retiring. That afternoon, Plummer and his girlfriend Kolette walked into the Colorado Humane Society and handed over a personalized $10,000 check.

Usually, he goes there to take the shelter dogs out for runs and walks, but he had heard last week the shelter was struggling to make ends meet, according to his foundation president Judianne Antencio.

Again, the check did not come from his Jake Plummer Foundation, which gives thousands each year to causes that aid families and Alzheimer's patients. It was a personal check.

There were athletic scrambles and pretty throws on the run. There were interceptions and controversies from road rage, to rage at a female reporter to subtle, if obscene heckler. But above all else, let the record show Plummer was foremost a winner.

He finished his four-year tenure in Denver with an 84.3 career passer rating and .722 regular-season winning percentage (39-15) - numbers that exceeded those of Hall of Famer John Elway (79.8/.643).

Elway, though, whipped Plummer in leading Denver teams to Super Bowls, 5-0. And now Good Jake/Bad Jake is Gonzo Jake.


http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_5351843

[Sodak]

Alright, Broncojef had it cleared up pretty good. Then Wraenos posted. Now I'm back where I started.

[watermock]

When a player is traded, the team recieving is off the hook completely.

[watermock]

from what I can tell, Denver screwed themselves.

[Rock Chalk]

Looks like his retirement is official:

http://www.jakeplummerfoundation.org/


And then this article recenlty put up on DPO:

End the speculation. Jake Plummer is not vacillating. The Broncos quarterback formally announced his retirement on his Jake Plummer Foundation website Saturday.

Ignore wild speculation Plummer is trying to pull a fast one by retiring as a tactical maneuver to force a trade somewhere other than Tampa Bay, and to a situation where he has a greater chance to start.

When trying to go inside the mind of former Broncos quarterback Jake Plummer, believe his mom, believe his older brother, refer to the retirement papers he already has filed with the NFL office.

Plummer has retired from the NFL after 10 seasons, the last four with the Broncos. He began filing papers late Friday, according to a source close to Plummer. The league office will begin reviewing them when it opens Monday.
"He hinted even before this season started that this would be his last year," said Brett Plummer, Jake's older brother. "At the time, I took with it a grain of salt. But Jake is his own man and if he feels it's time, then it's time."

While Plummer apparently had made up his mind about retirement weeks ago, his decision became known Friday when the Broncos traded him to Tampa Bay for a middle-round draft pick. Surprised the quarterback was not only willing to surrender the remaining three years left on his contract that would pay him $5.3 million in 2007, but perhaps be forced to refund the Broncos approximately $5 million in prorated signing bonus, Denver and Tampa Bay regrouped and finalized a contingency trade Saturday.

Plummer's rights now belong to the Buccaneers. If he decides to end his retirement and play within the next calendar year, the Broncos would receive a contingency draft pick in 2008.

"I think Jake Plummer will play again," Tampa Bay general manager Bruce Allen said.

In still another twist to the bizarre saga, Allen predicted Plummer's return at the same news conference Saturday in which he announced the signing of another veteran quarterback, Jeff Garcia, to a two-year contract.

The mixed signals sent by Allen should not confuse Broncos fans. Plummer has retired.

"Yes, that's it," said Marilyn Plummer, Jake's mother, when asked if her son had retired. "I thought this would happen from the moment the season ended. He needs a break but I foresee him doing something else. He's a lot like Pat Tillman. Pat would do something unexpected. Jake used to say, 'I wonder what Pat would have done next.' Jake is a lot like Pat. He has that same rebel soul."

Tillman, who was Plummer's friend and teammate with the Arizona Cardinals, turned down a $3.6 million contract extension in May 2002 to enlist in the U.S. Army. He served in Iraq and later Afghanistan, where he was killed April 22, 2004, by friendly fire.

Plummer, 32, is walking away from even more money. There had been speculation Plummer was trying to force a trade to the Houston, where he would be reunited with former Broncos offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak. But the Texans did not want to surrender a draft pick for Plummer and trade talks between the teams quickly evaporated.

"The most absurd thing out there is Jake is doing this as some kind of ploy," a Plummer associate said. "Is there anyone in this world you would least expect to be part of a ploy than Jake? This is no ploy."

In other respects, Plummer's retirement more closely resembles that of New York Giants running back Tiki Barber. Like Plummer, Barber surprisingly retired after 10 productive seasons.

"Jake loved football, but at the same time, he did not like the other aspects that came with being a professional quarterback," Brett Plummer said. "He didn't like the quarterback limelight. He just wanted to hang out and be a regular guy.

"And, also, in spite of playing such a physically demanding position for 10 years, Jake is in good health. He wants to leave with his health intact because there's other things he wants to do. He's into backpacking and handball and he wants to start a family. He wants to make sure he's healthy enough to play one- on-one with his kid in the backyard."

Whatever opinions Broncos fans had of Plummer, everyone had to agree he was a one and only. He was a right-handed quarterback who once tried to throw left- handed. He was a free-spirited but highly competitive leader who a year ago brought Denver to the AFC title game, only to show up to the pregame news conference with hair flowing to his shoulders, full beard, jeans and undershirt.

He spent Friday morning explaining to his agents and Tampa Bay officials why he was retiring. That afternoon, Plummer and his girlfriend Kolette walked into the Colorado Humane Society and handed over a personalized $10,000 check.

Usually, he goes there to take the shelter dogs out for runs and walks, but he had heard last week the shelter was struggling to make ends meet, according to his foundation president Judianne Antencio.

Again, the check did not come from his Jake Plummer Foundation, which gives thousands each year to causes that aid families and Alzheimer's patients. It was a personal check.

There were athletic scrambles and pretty throws on the run. There were interceptions and controversies from road rage, to rage at a female reporter to subtle, if obscene heckler. But above all else, let the record show Plummer was foremost a winner.

He finished his four-year tenure in Denver with an 84.3 career passer rating and .722 regular-season winning percentage (39-15) - numbers that exceeded those of Hall of Famer John Elway (79.8/.643).

Elway, though, whipped Plummer in leading Denver teams to Super Bowls, 5-0. And now Good Jake/Bad Jake is Gonzo Jake.


http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_5351843
Well, whatever his reasons you can assure yourself of one thing. Jake doesnt give a **** what the fans in Denver who boo'ed him all year think.

[eddie mac]

from what I can tell, Denver screwed themselves.

How did they screw themselves Mock??? Houston were never going to give us a draft pick for him and Shanahan didn't want to release him for nothing considering the cost over the last few years. Broncos hands were tied on this. They got the best deal they could get (Bucs 4th rounder) then Jake decided to call it a day.

[watermock]

How did they screw themselves Mock??? Houston were never going to give us a draft pick for him and Shanahan didn't want to release him for nothing considering the cost over the last few years. Broncos hands were tied on this. They got the best deal they could get (Bucs 4th rounder) then Jake decided to call it a day.

If they traded his rights away he can retire as a Texan. The Broncos hands were not tied at all. If the terms are the trade is conditional on his signing, then it's all good, and Denver will get money back, assuming there is any. This is custom made for the NFLPA so don't expect any settlment soon. **** Jake the Snake in the grass.

[BroncoFiend]

I admit I don't know everything about all this cap and trade stuff, but I am quite sure about the following:

1 - When a player accepts a signing bonus, he is commiting to the full length of the contract, if he decides to retire before the end of the contract length he has to pay that portion (not the whole thing) back.

2 - The Denver/Tampa trade is/was a conditional trade, if Plummer retires, the Broncos will retain the rights to go after the remainder of the signing bonus. This is Shanny here people I think he has looked into the details.

3 - Jake does not and should not care about draft picks, nor the feelings and opinions of Bronco or Tampa fans.

Lets not lump Jake into the same category as IHOP, Lilly and Dale here folks. The guy played his heart out for us, helped us to an AFC Championship game was a good player and a great competitor. I'm excited about the Cutler era, but sad to see how the Jake era ended... he deserved better.

[Moon§hiner]

It's laughable for the capoligists here to laugh that Jake has to pay this money back thinking that he doesn't have the mental capacity of people on this board to consider if he retires what the ramifications will be. I believe he knows what the consequences are and is ready to face them just to get away and live his own life. If I had his bank account, I'd do the same thing and go out on my rules, not someone elses.

[Vegas_Bronco]

It's laughable for the capoligists here to laugh that Jake has to pay this money back thinking that he doesn't have the mental capacity of people on this board to consider if he retires what the ramifications will be. I believe he knows what the consequences are and is ready to face them just to get away and live his own life. If I had his bank account, I'd do the same thing and go out on my rules, not someone elses.

AGREED - it's not OUR money, it's the Broncos money - too funny reading this thread. :rofl: Too many opinions and too much time 'off the hook'

[Broncoman13]

Mock, once again you have missed the bus. Denver traded his rights away but retained the right to recoup on his signing bonus should he stay retired. What does this do for the Bucs? They send a conditional draft pick to the Broncos, contingent on him playing this year. If he retires the Bucs are out nothing. If he decides he wants to go play for the Houston Texans, the Texans now owe the Bucs compensation in order to acquire him. Last but not least, there was a clause placed in the CBA that allows traded players to be treated the same way June 1st cuts are treated. So, by trading Jake the Broncos save about 5 mil on this year's cap. If Jake comes back and plays football for the Bucs the Bucs owe Denver a future pick. If Jake stays retired the Bucs get nothing, but the Broncos can get some money back from Jake's signing bonus.


Good luck Jake. You were fun to watch... frustrating at times, but a lot of good memories anyhow.

[watermock]

Mock, once again you have missed the bus. Denver traded his rights away but retained the right to recoup on his signing bonus should he stay retired. What does this do for the Bucs? They send a conditional draft pick to the Broncos, contingent on him playing this year. If he retires the Bucs are out nothing. If he decides he wants to go play for the Houston Texans, the Texans now owe the Bucs compensation in order to acquire him. Last but not least, there was a clause placed in the CBA that allows traded players to be treated the same way June 1st cuts are treated. So, by trading Jake the Broncos save about 5 mil on this year's cap. If Jake comes back and plays football for the Bucs the Bucs owe Denver a future pick. If Jake stays retired the Bucs get nothing, but the Broncos can get some money back from Jake's signing bonus.


Good luck Jake. You were fun to watch... frustrating at times, but a lot of good memories anyhow.

And how do you know those are the conditions again? And if they are, that the NFLPA won't litigate it?

[Vegas_Bronco]

Good luck Jake. You were fun to watch... frustrating at times, but a lot of good memories anyhow.


DUDE that hits the theme of the OM right on the head - Jake should be the new mascot here on the OM - instead of the 'bronco head' in the OM logo, we should cook up a good photo of Jake (one without curls and makeup damnit) and slide him in.

[watermock]

He sucked or wouldn't of been benched.

[NW Bolt Fan]

I admit I don't know everything about all this cap and trade stuff, but I am quite sure about the following:

1 - When a player accepts a signing bonus, he is commiting to the full length of the contract, if he decides to retire before the end of the contract length he has to pay that portion (not the whole thing) back.
Unless he's traded. Then the cap # is accelertated, counts against the cap, but means you'll pay nothing of his SB next season.

2 - The Denver/Tampa trade is/was a conditional trade, if Plummer retires, the Broncos will retain the rights to go after the remainder of the signing bonus. This is Shanny here people I think he has looked into the details. The trade was conditional to Jake showing up in TB. Because he's not showing up, Denver gets nothing.

[chrisp]

I think that from day one, the Broncos were ready for and scheming around the cap hit for Jake so I really don't think that's an issue. Right now, it seems that what Shanny really wanted to make sure he got for jake was draft compensation.

This way, if he retires for real, fair dos, but if he suddenly 'un-retires' then the Broncos do have draft compensation, albeit not this year.

I could be wrong, but I think that as far as Shanny is concerned this is done with.

It may be the case that if they hadn't traded him they possibly could have gone after the remainder of the signing bonus, but I don't know if that would have given us any cap relief - probably not this year at any rate...wheels turn slowly in these matters.

Also, do you want to spend a chunk of the offseason going after some guy who was a solid teammate to most of your remaining roster? Won't that affect team chemisty? Gardener was someone who stuck both fingers up at the team and had never really played with us. Plummer has bonded with everybody and led us to a championship game - it would leave a sour taste in a number of mouths if we had a lengthy protracted dispute with him.

[chrisp]

BTW with respect to the post above, I think it is the draft compensation that is conditional, not the trade itself. Jake is traded, period, the Bucs own his rights, and if anybody wants him to play for them they have to trade with Tampa. Right now we get nothing for that but if he even enters camp for another team we get an 08 draft pick from Tampa.

I think that's the way it works anyway......hmmm...

[chrisp]

BTW it also shows that Kubiak has learned from many years of watching Shanny dish out buttf***ings aplently not to play anything other than hardball in a trade.....

[Odysseus]

It's laughable for the capoligists here to laugh that Jake has to pay this money back thinking that he doesn't have the mental capacity of people on this board to consider if he retires what the ramifications will be. I believe he knows what the consequences are and is ready to face them just to get away and live his own life. If I had his bank account, I'd do the same thing and go out on my rules, not someone elses.

Some people act like they are personally losing money with Jake walking away. Broken hearted little sweethearts teary eyed that their playtoy is bwoke. Hilarious!

DWill died. Damien Nash died. At what point don't people get this game is seriously just a game and that life outside the orange and blue really does exist? I get that life goes on but dude...The Broncos will go on. This isn't some ruinous disasater that people are making it out to be. What have the Broncos done in the 4th round anyway?

People forget that Pat Tillman was my inspirtation for coming over here. This connects for me on some sideways different place so my apologies to any posters I've offended.

Jake never surrendered his right to be his own guy. Put him on a pedestal? Why? I would rather drink a margarita with him and just chill.

[Natedogg]

So long Jake. I like your style. Happy trails.

[BroncoInferno]

It's laughable for the capoligists here to laugh that Jake has to pay this money back thinking that he doesn't have the mental capacity of people on this board to consider if he retires what the ramifications will be. I believe he knows what the consequences are and is ready to face them just to get away and live his own life. If I had his bank account, I'd do the same thing and go out on my rules, not someone elses.

No sh*t. Some of these miserable f*cks accused him of being involved in some kind of ploy to get to Houston simply because they don't like him as a football player. Then clap themselves on the back for knowing that he may have to give the bonus back when Jake doesn't. You don't think Jake's agent told him weeks ago when the retirement rumors surfaced what the ramifications would be? He simply doesn't care. He's made a ton of scratch, and losing $5-7 million isn't going to put him in the bread line. Good for him.

[Drek]

And how do you know those are the conditions again? And if they are, that the NFLPA won't litigate it?

The NFLPA won't say boo about it, its an acceptable agreement between two NFL front offices, either way someone has claim to Jake's bonus if he retires.

This information was stated in the original press release that was attached to the Dan Wilkinson news. Look that thread up, it gets repeated pretty heavily, even PFT flip flopped and recanted their previous statement that Tampa Bay would have those rights.

And yes, teams are entitled to signing bonus money, the original intent behind them was a reward for a player signing a deal, if they don't live up to their end of the deal the original payout can be pursued. It only gives cap relief for bonus money that has already hit the cap, but in Jake's case retirement accelerates the cap hit on $8M in guaranteed money, somewhere between $5-$7M of which is money that we can get back. Denver designated him as a June 1st trade so we can get $5M in cap room that will hit the '08 cap if Jake plays, but that we'll now have a year to pursue from him if he retires and nullify the hit.

All around the FO did some pretty impressive maneuvering all while still signing us a new OG, trading for a 1st and 2nd down DT, and negotiating with two of the top FA targets on the market.

[Northman]

No sh*t. Some of these miserable ****s accused him of being involved in some kind of ploy to get to Houston simply because they don't like him as a football player. Then clap themselves on the back for knowing that he may have to give the bonus back when Jake doesn't. You don't think Jake's agent told him weeks ago when the retirement rumors surfaced what the ramifications would be? He simply doesn't care. He's made a ton of scratch, and losing $5-7 million isn't going to put him in the bread line. Good for him.



Funny how you take it so personal BI as if you know Jake personally. Your no different than the rest of us so quite playing the poor Jake card. Good grief.

[thebroncosnation]

Well, the good thing in all of this is that if he did decide to come back Tampa is on the hook for his 5.3M salary for the year. Thus it is off of our books and we can now negotiate witha little more wiggle room for FA's that want to sign. His retirement is no longer our problem. If he does come back we still get the 4th rounder. If not then we get nothing.

[BroncoInferno]

Funny how you take it so personal BI as if you know Jake personally. Your no different than the rest of us so quite playing the poor Jake card. Good grief.

The difference is I give people the benefit of the doubt while folks like you assume the worst of him simply because you don't like him as a football player.

[Northman]

The difference is I give people the benefit of the doubt while folks like you assume the worst of him simply because you don't like him as a football player.


I never said i didnt like him one bit. I think he is average and i comment on it but ive also given him props in other areas. You dont give people the benefit of the doubt you simply jump to conclusions and try to claim them as facts. Time and time again you and the Jake brigade start crying and whining about the " haters " before anyone even responds to a Jake thread. If anything you bozos instigate the drama before it even gets started.

[Jason in LA]

But Denver isnt owned any money becaue they traded away the rights to him correct? If he stays retired, doesnt Tampa have recourse to get money he owes on the signing bonus? Why does Denver? They traded him.

Whats the status of Plummer. Is he technically a Bronco or a Buc?

The way I've always understand it was that if a team gave a player a signing bonus, that team is on the hook for it, even if the player is traded, cut, or retires.

If the Broncos cut Plummer, the remainder of us prorated bonus would be on the Broncos cap this year. That's true if they traded him. The team he was traded to wouldn't be responsible for his signing bonus, only his salary. Same is true when a player retires.

As for a player having to pay back a part of his bonus, if he doesn't live up to his end of the contract by not playing, he has to pay back some money. That's to stop a player from up and quiting after a team has made a big investment in him. What if a player gets a $15 million bonus on a five year contract, then after a year just decides to stop playing. He pretty much stole the money, so he has to pay up.

Now some people may look at it from the players point of view, and say that a team can cut a player at any time. That is true, but when a team does that the player gets to keep his bonus without playing out his contract. Now he can go and get a bonus from another team.

[Northman]

As for a player having to pay back a part of his bonus, if he doesn't live up to his end of the contract by not playing, he has to pay back some money. That's to stop a player from up and quiting after a team has made a big investment in him. What if a player gets a $15 million bonus on a five year contract, then after a year just decides to stop playing. He pretty much stole the money, so he has to pay up.




See Ricky Williams

[BroncoInferno]

I never said i didnt like him one bit. I think he is average and i comment on it but ive also given him props in other areas. You dont give people the benefit of the doubt you simply jump to conclusions and try to claim them as facts. Time and time again you and the Jake brigade start crying and whining about the " haters " before anyone even responds to a Jake thread. If anything you bozos instigate the drama before it even gets started.

LOL Dude, are you reading these threads? In these multiple threads people have called Jake every name under the sun. One thread calls him a "fag" in the initial post. All because people jumped to conclusions about his intentions, and it's mostly from the same ingrates who senselessly bashed him at every turn while he was a player. Your spin-doctoring is laughable.

[Northman]

LOL Dude, are you reading these threads? In these multiple threads people have called Jake every name under the sun. One thread calls him a "fag" in the initial post. All because people jumped to conclusions about his intentions, and it's mostly from the same ingrates who senselessly bashed him at every turn while he was a player. Your spin-doctoring is laughable.


So, its your position that if people are going to talk about Jake ( him being a football player ) on a Bronco forum that you in turn should insult the people talking badly about him? Thats hilarious but you go with your bad self if makes you feel better. People are either going to be happy with a NFL player or their not thats why they talk about it on these boards. But your outright insulting the members which has nothing to do with the discussion of Jake. As for Jake's retirement his intentions are still not clear yet as their is a grievance that is most likely going to be filed. If Jake is to retire than why bother filing a grievance because of the trade? Still seems fishy to me and very deceitful on his part.

[BroncoInferno]

So, its your position that if people are going to talk about Jake ( him being a football player ) on a Bronco forum that you in turn should insult the people talking badly about him? Thats hilarious but you go with your bad self if makes you feel better. People are either going to be happy with a NFL player or their not thats why they talk about it on these boards. But your outright insulting the members which has nothing to do with the discussion of Jake. As for Jake's retirement his intentions are still not clear yet as their is a grievance that is most likely going to be filed. If Jake is to retire than why bother filing a grievance because of the trade? Still seems fishy to me and very deceitful on his part.

I don't care if they don't like him as a player. People have been taking personal shots at him, that's what I'm talking about.

And you're calling him "deceitful" based off assumptions on not only what he will do in the future but what his motives are. Plus, he's already filed his retirement papers. That's it. He's done. Let the man go in peace.

[Northman]

I don't care if they don't like him as a player. People have been taking personal shots at him, that's what I'm talking about.

And you're calling him "deceitful" based off assumptions on not only what he will do in the future but what his motives are. Plus, he's already filed his retirement papers. That's it. He's done. Let the man go in peace.



Thats just it though, he hasnt gone in peace BI. If your going to retire than just do it. Why the Grievance? To file a grievance only tells me that you have a different motive than retiring. If he understands that he is going to pay back some of his bonus than he should just do that and move on. I dont care if he retires, but all this mickey mousing around makes it look like he is trying to pull a fast one. Thats the point im getting at.

[Odysseus]

Thats just it though, he hasnt gone in peace BI. If your going to retire than just do it. Why the Grievance? To file a grievance only tells me that you have a different motive than retiring. If he understands that he is going to pay back some of his bonus than he should just do that and move on. I dont care if he retires, but all this mickey mousing around makes it look like he is trying to pull a fast one. Thats the point im getting at.

Ashley won his grievance and is now playing with San Fran. Plummer is just taking his best shot. His only motive might be staying retired with the most amount of money possible. Jake isn't that sneaky. He didn't sneak that many passes into tight coverage that I saw.

[Circle Orange]

All this came out in a period of two hours the other day...Information flowed so quickly on the east coast this entire story made no sense. It went like this:

Jake retires/wants to start somewhere
Tampa Bay intererested in Jake. Gruden offers starting position to Jake.
Bucs accquire Garcia.
Jake trade goes through, compensation picks given to TB from Denver.
Jake decides to definitely retire.
Tampa accquires both Jake and Jeff.

:confuzzle


All this had me scratching my head like WTF is going ON out there???

[Blueflame]

Funny how you take it so personal BI as if you know Jake personally. Your no different than the rest of us so quite playing the poor Jake card. Good grief.

It's going to be kinda difficult for some of the more emphatic Plummer supporters to come to terms with the fact that he's no longer associated with the Broncos in any way. Lashing out at those who welcome the news that he's gone is just one way of dealing with it. Soon enough, Plummer will be "old news" as the focus turns to fresh FA acquisitions and the draft.

[BroncoInferno]

It's going to be kinda difficult for some of the more emphatic Plummer supporters to come to terms with the fact that he's no longer associated with the Broncos in any way.

Actually, most of us are thrilled we are moving forward with Cutler and understand that Plummer's time here had run its course.

Lashing out at those who welcome the news that he's gone is just one way of dealing with it.

No one is "lashing out" because people are happy to have him gone. Fine. I'm talking about the people who making senseless personal attacks (i.e. calling him a "fag," a "little bitch", etc) simply because they don't like him as a football player.

[Bronx33]

I admit I don't know everything about all this cap and trade stuff, but I am quite sure about the following:

1 - When a player accepts a signing bonus, he is commiting to the full length of the contract, if he decides to retire before the end of the contract length he has to pay that portion (not the whole thing) back.

2 - The Denver/Tampa trade is/was a conditional trade, if Plummer retires, the Broncos will retain the rights to go after the remainder of the signing bonus. This is Shanny here people I think he has looked into the details.

3 - Jake does not and should not care about draft picks, nor the feelings and opinions of Bronco or Tampa fans.

Lets not lump Jake into the same category as IHOP, Lilly and Dale here folks. The guy played his heart out for us, helped us to an AFC Championship game was a good player and a great competitor. I'm excited about the Cutler era, but sad to see how the Jake era ended... he deserved better.


Kinda like the barry sanders retirement didn't he have to pay back a few bucks based on the fact he didn't complete his contract?...

[Taco John]

No one is "lashing out" because people are happy to have him gone. Fine. I'm talking about the people who making senseless personal attacks (i.e. calling him a "fag," a "little b****", etc) simply because they don't like him as a football player.



A lot of the folks that are doing that are just doing it because they feel let down by the guy. A lot of this behaviour is coming from people who were ardent supporters of his during the season, and are disappointed in the way he's handing his business right now. Not that he owes Broncos fans anything, but he's letting a lot of folks down with the way he's doing things. The least he could have done was let the organization know beforehand in private that if he wasn't going to Houston, he was going to retire. At least the Broncos could have strategized around that.

[watermock]

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=1&dateline=1173057861

I blame Baby Zee....

[fontaine]

A lot of the folks that are doing that are just doing it because they feel let down by the guy. A lot of this behaviour is coming from people who were ardent supporters of his during the season, and are disappointed in the way he's handing his business right now. Not that he owes Broncos fans anything, but he's letting a lot of folks down with the way he's doing things. The least he could have done was let the organization know beforehand in private that if he wasn't going to Houston, he was going to retire. At least the Broncos could have strategized around that.

Some of us are used to it. Plummer let down this team from the start of last season, now that he's decided to retire after the FO worked out a brilliant deal (both for the Broncos and Plummer) he's done it again.

I'm glad the guy is going out on his terms and wish him the best but he capped a lousy season with a lousy ending.

[Blueflame]

Actually, most of us are thrilled we are moving forward with Cutler and understand that Plummer's time here had run its course.

No one is "lashing out" because people are happy to have him gone. Fine. I'm talking about the people who making senseless personal attacks (i.e. calling him a "fag," a "little b****", etc) simply because they don't like him as a football player.

"Eagerly anticipating the '07 season" and "ready for the great Plummer debates to be over" are the best descriptions of my outlook right now.

The personal attacks on Plummer aren't "simply because they don't like him as a football player"... they're the direct result of Plummer's strange actions in waiting until the Broncos had arranged a trade rather than letting the team know earlier that he intended to retire. The way he handled his retirement announcement was beyond bizarre and a lot of Broncos fans merely reacted with hostility to what they perceived as an attempt to "hose" our favorite team. While I don't necessarily agree with the attacks, I do understand the reasoning behind it.

[BroncoInferno]

A lot of the folks that are doing that are just doing it because they feel let down by the guy. A lot of this behaviour is coming from people who were ardent supporters of his during the season, and are disappointed in the way he's handing his business right now. Not that he owes Broncos fans anything, but he's letting a lot of folks down with the way he's doing things. The least he could have done was let the organization know beforehand in private that if he wasn't going to Houston, he was going to retire. At least the Broncos could have strategized around that.

Actually, seems to me most of the people going the personal attack route are mainly posters who always disliked him.

At any rate, it's possible that Plummer wasn't 100% sure that he wanted to retire until he was met the with the reality of the trade. He may have thought he had little bit more time to make a decision than he did. Plus, communication works both ways. It does not appear the team let him in on the fact that they were working on shipping him to Tampa.

[Blueflame]

Actually, seems to me most of the people going the personal attack route are mainly posters who always disliked him.

At any rate, it's possible that Plummer wasn't 100% sure that he wanted to retire until he was met the with the reality of the trade. He may have thought he had little bit more time to make a decision than he did. Plus, communication works both ways. It does not appear the team let him in on the fact that they were working on shipping him to Tampa.
Many who are the most critical of Plummer preface it with "I've always liked and supported Jake but".....

Do you really think the Broncos brass would have wasted the time working out a trade if they'd had any idea that he was seriously contemplating retirement? I don't. Better communication (on Plummer's part) could have avoided the whole situation. It was not exactly a secret that the team would try to get some compensation for him... and the team did him a favor by putting him with a team that would give him the opportunity to compete for the starting job.

[Taco John]

Actually, seems to me most of the people going the personal attack route are mainly posters who always disliked him.



Certainly, there are some of those types too. I don't think that it's suprising that all different types of people would react negatively to the way Plummer is handling his business right now. Plummer's vindictive side is coming out, much like when he flipped off the fans the first time around. It shouldn't come as a suprise to anyone that fans are going to react negatively when a player lets them down.

I suspect that because of the ugly way that Jake handled his business, it's going to get ugly between him and the Broncos, with Denver going back after his signing bonus. I don't believe Jake counted on that like some here think. I expect that it's going to get even uglier between Jake and the fans because the situation isn't going to get resolved overnight.

[BroncoInferno]

"Eagerly anticipating the '07 season" and "ready for the great Plummer debates to be over" are the best descriptions of my outlook right now.

The personal attacks on Plummer aren't "simply because they don't like him as a football player"... they're the direct result of Plummer's strange actions in waiting until the Broncos had arranged a trade rather than letting the team know earlier that he intended to retire. The way he handled his retirement announcement was beyond bizarre and a lot of Broncos fans merely reacted with hostility to what they perceived as an attempt to "hose" our favorite team. While I don't necessarily agree with the attacks, I do understand the reasoning behind it.

Like I said, it's very possible that Plummer had not made any final decision until met with the reality of the trade. And, again, communication works both ways. If the team had told him or his representation that they had a deal with Tampa in the works, he might could have saved them the trouble.

[BroncoInferno]

Certainly, there are some of those types too. I don't think that it's suprising that all different types of people would react negatively to the way Plummer is handling his business right now. Plummer's vindictive side is coming out, much like when he flipped off the fans the first time around. It shouldn't come as a suprise to anyone that fans are going to react negatively when a player lets them down.

He didn't "flip the fans off" in the sense that people try to say. It was directed at an individual who said something vicious to him. Rod heard what the fan said and commented that he would have done a lot more than flip the guy off had he said that to him. Still, he should have kept his cool, but to suggest it was directed at all the fans of Denver is silly. Second, how do you know he is being vindictive? It is VERY possible that he had not made his mind up about retiring until met with the reality of the trade. He may well have thought he had more time to make a decision than he did. And, as I said, had the team communicated from their end that they had a deal in the works with Tampa, he might have saved them the trouble. Communcation is a two-way street.

[BroncoInferno]

Many who are the most critical of Plummer preface it with "I've always liked and supported Jake but".....

I don't mind people who are critical of him as a player or even the way he's conducted himself with the retirement thing (though I think there is more going on than just sticking it to the Broncos, I think he may not have decided for sure until a trade became reality--maybe we'll get more concrete details in the coming days), it's when people make senseless personal attacks against the guys charcter that I think reveals more about their character than it does Plummer.

Do you really think the Broncos brass would have wasted the time working out a trade if they'd had any idea that he was seriously contemplating retirement? I don't. Better communication (on Plummer's part) could have avoided the whole situation. It was not exactly a secret that the team would try to get some compensation for him... and the team did him a favor by putting him with a team that would give him the opportunity to compete for the starting job.

Communication works both ways. If they had told him and/or his representation that serious discussions were going on with Tampa, he might have saved them the trouble if in fact location played a factor in his decision to retire.

[Blueflame]

I don't mind people who are critical of him as a player or even the way he's conducted himself with the retirement thing (though I think there is more going on than just sticking it to the Broncos, I think he may not have decided for sure until a trade became reality--maybe we'll get more concrete details in the coming days), it's when people make senseless personal attacks against the guys charcter that I think reveals more about their character than it does Plummer.

Communication works both ways. If they had told him and/or his representation that serious discussions were going on with Tampa, he might have saved them the trouble if in fact location played a factor in his decision to retire.

It's totally understandable that some fans are very disappointed with the way events have transpired the last few days. Each fan is entitled to their own opinion, even if that opinion is something like "I hope Plummer plays... and wins... against the Broncos" (although, in honesty, it's my opinion that rooting against the Broncos... ever... is incredibly lame, no matter what the circumstances are).

Doesn't it go without saying that a team would be trying to make a trade when they have a player on the bench who has made it clear that he wants to go elsewhere and that he'd like to compete for a starting job? It's not surprising that the team would be working on a trade for him.... in fact, it's a "given". Because the change in circumstances was a decision he made, it was his place to inform the team and keep them in the loop. They were working in good faith and in what they thought was the best interests of everyone involved (Plummer, the Broncos, and the Buccaneers). I have to side with the team on this one....

[Broncoman13]

The way I've always understand it was that if a team gave a player a signing bonus, that team is on the hook for it, even if the player is traded, cut, or retires.

If the Broncos cut Plummer, the remainder of us prorated bonus would be on the Broncos cap this year. That's true if they traded him. The team he was traded to wouldn't be responsible for his signing bonus, only his salary. Same is true when a player retires.

As for a player having to pay back a part of his bonus, if he doesn't live up to his end of the contract by not playing, he has to pay back some money. That's to stop a player from up and quiting after a team has made a big investment in him. What if a player gets a $15 million bonus on a five year contract, then after a year just decides to stop playing. He pretty much stole the money, so he has to pay up.

Now some people may look at it from the players point of view, and say that a team can cut a player at any time. That is true, but when a team does that the player gets to keep his bonus without playing out his contract. Now he can go and get a bonus from another team.


The new CBA allows for players to be designated as June 1st cuts. This allows them to creat salary cap now as opposed to waiting until June 1st. Apparently the new CBA also has contract language that allows for teams to trade players and still designate them as June 1st cuts.

The Broncos placed a stipulation in the trade that should Plummer remain retired they are allowed to recoup on his bonus payment. Should he report to camp the Broncos would be on the hitch for the entire bonus, but since he was designated as a June 1st Cut/Trade, that bonus is dispersed over the next two years.

[Taco John]

Second, how do you know he is being vindictive?


Who knows? Who cares? It came off as vindictive.

The Broncos apparently took it that way.