John Claytons Notes on Free Agency (Battle for Kerney and Graham)

[rovolution]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2786311


10. The second best battle involves the Seahawks and Broncos. Both teams want tight end Daniel Graham and defensive end Patrick Kerney. The Broncos got visits from both during the first day of free agency. The Seahawks sent coaches to Denver to make sure Kerney gets on a plane to Seattle. Along with that, the Seahawks were trying to lock up guard Kris Dielman. Good action.


Damn the Seahags. Kerney should be more of a priority over Graham at this point. They better not even let him see a plane without signing a contract.

[ludo21]

I sort of agree.

We need that big TE that handles the middle of the field.

Yet we NEED a DE that can rush the passer. The draft is deeper in DL that TE, so thats the only reason I would go Graham over Kerney at this point

[Broncojef]

I posted it in another thread but I just saw (FOX News) Shanny and some Broncos laughing and carrying-on in a Nuggets luxury suite with Daniel Graham and Ahman Green...Kerney was no where in site.

[Dukes]

Security at DIA should have joined in and barred those Seahawk coaches from entering the premisis

[maven]

I posted it in another thread but I just saw (FOX News) Shanny and some Broncos laughing and carrying-on in a Nuggets luxury suite with Daniel Graham and Ahman Green...Kerney was no where in site.

I can see Graham, but what does Green give Denver that can't be solved via the draft? I didn't expect Kerney to sign here anyway since he's probably after BIG DOLLARS.

[Broncojef]

I can see Graham, but what does Green give Denver that can't be solved via the draft? I didn't expect Kerney to sign here anyway since he's probably after BIG DOLLARS.

I think Shanny wants a veteran to give leadership and bring stability to our running game. Green would be a 2-3 year gap fill for league minimum as we most likely draft someone this year and next until we find the next big stud. I think Ahman would be cool in that role although Travis Henry/Thomas Jones both intrigue me.

[HEAV]

As much as I would like to get Kerney, I feel the draft holds our DE for 2007. Bring in the RB and TE and let's call it a wrap on early FA. Then after the draft do some bargain shopping.

[Dukes]

I think Ahman would be cool in that role although Travis Henry/Thomas Jones both intrigue me.

We can chalk up 11 wins right now with T. Jones or Travis Henry in the backfield

[NFLBRONCO]

As much as I would like to get Kerney, I feel the draft holds our DE for 2007. Bring in the RB and TE and let's call it a wrap on early FA. Then after the draft do some bargain shopping.

I agree totally on DE.

I'd like to get younger on D as well. In 08 we will have only 1 starter under 30 on D.

[Al Wilson]

I hope Shanahan doesn't sign Kerney. Also, everyone is forgetting about Dumervil. He's going to have a great year next season.

[rovolution]

I hope Shanahan doesn't sign Kerney. Also, everyone is forgetting about Dumervil. He's going to have a great year next season.

And your forgetting hes a 3rd down only end. Kerney is an EVERY DOWN player.

S. Alexander is servicable over Graham. Kerney could be what Neil Smith was for us in 1997. He commands double teams just because of his reputation, and that frees up the rest of the line. Most rookies (unless is Amobi Okoye, who we probably have no chance of getting) probably wont take up a double team.

[JDB7821]

I think the Broncos are a Kerney (or his equivalent) away from being SERIOUS contenders next year. I would even think it would be wise to sign Kerney and then draft the best available DE at 21. That way, you get the veteran guy that helps the team win now and you have a young guy waiting to take over.

And on a side note, I think Kerney will benefit GREATLY from Dumervil. He never had someone that could spot him well enough to come off the field in Atlanta. He played every down as hard as he could and even moved inside a year or two ago when the DTs needed a rest. He said before he was cut that the Falcons needed a starting-caliber DE to provide depth.

[Al Wilson]

And your forgetting hes a 3rd down only end. Kerney is an EVERY DOWN player.

S. Alexander is servicable over Graham. Kerney could be what Neil Smith was for us in 1997. He commands double teams just because of his reputation, and that frees up the rest of the line.
Get real, Kerney is on the decline, and is no where on the level that Neil Smith was. Also, Kerney has been injured the last couple of years, and isn't worth the money he will be offered.

[houghtam]

7 games last season are the only games he's missed in his entire career. And he had 4.5 sacks in 9 games, compared to 6.5 over a full season the tyear before.

[JDB7821]

Get real, Kerney is on the decline, and is no where on the level that Neil Smith was. Also, Kerney has been injured the last couple of years, and isn't worth the money he will be offered.

Kerney was an iron man before his pec injury, and he's already lifting weights 2 months ahead of schedule. He is no John Abraham.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I posted it in another thread but I just saw (FOX News) Shanny and some Broncos laughing and carrying-on in a Nuggets luxury suite with Daniel Graham and Ahman Green...Kerney was no where in site.

I, feeling like an optimist tonight, interpret that as meaning that if those two haven't already agreed to terms, they are close enough to the point that they feel they can relax and let their agents hammer out the final details.

[Clockwork Orange]

I, feeling like an optimist tonight, interpret that as meaning that if those two haven't already agreed to terms, they are close enough to the point that they feel they can relax and let their agents hammer out the final details.

That's the same tactic the Broncos used on Champ Bailey when they were working on his deal. The contract was done the next day.

Take that any way you like. :)

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I think Kerney might be good for a year or two, but i guarentee they'll be eating money years later when he's terrible. He's going to require a big contract. Daniel Graham would be a great signing as he is an expert blocker as well an intermidiate recieving threat. The guy the Broncos should target in the draft is Adam Carriker. They NEED to get bigger up front and, though Carriker may not be a guy that gets you ten sacks, if you have ever watched him play, he doesn't get pushed off the line of scrimmage. These 250 pound DE pass rushers are overrated. I'll take a guy like Carriker who will be a rock and has the quicks enough to be an effective pass rusher.

As for Ahman Green, if they get him real cheap, why not...but he's fragile and i wouldnt expect much from him.

[broncolife]

And your forgetting hes a 3rd down only end. Kerney is an EVERY DOWN player.

S. Alexander is servicable over Graham. Kerney could be what Neil Smith was for us in 1997. He commands double teams just because of his reputation, and that frees up the rest of the line. Most rookies (unless is Amobi Okoye, who we probably have no chance of getting) probably wont take up a double team.

Kerney couldnt hold Neil Smiths Jock strap. I just hope we dont overpay for someone who gives us a little improvement. Dont get me wrong I would love this move if it was past offseasons, but this year everyone has too much cap which mean players will be paid more than their worth. Plus the guy hasnt done nothing in two years to warrent big bucks, but he will probably end up getting it.

[Popps]

I hope Shanahan doesn't sign Kerney. Also, everyone is forgetting about Dumervil. He's going to have a great year next season.

I'm not a huge Kearney fan, but we have to do something, at this point.

Elvis played all last season and was moderately effective, putting up most of his numbers against pretty bad teams. He's a nice utility guy, but nothing you count on when talking about your regular front four.

Lang is better in rotation.

We need to sign a DE and draft a couple, and a DT is a priority, too.

[Clockwork Orange]

We need to sign a DE and draft a couple, and a DT is a priority, too.

<--------------------------- :thanku:

[Man-Goblin]

Hehehe. Anyone remember Shanny courting Michael Dean Perry and James Jones behind the basket at a Nuggets game before his first year of coaching? He ended up getting them both. The Nuggets must be his spanish fly, or something.

[Vegas_Bronco]

Like Pat Bowlen showing up at the stadium just after the Niners won the super bowl to give Shanny the HC job - didn't even wait for a 'spanish fly'.

[NFLBRONCO]

I'm not a huge Kearney fan, but we have to do something, at this point.

Elvis played all last season and was moderately effective, putting up most of his numbers against pretty bad teams. He's a nice utility guy, but nothing you count on when talking about your regular front four.

Lang is better in rotation.

We need to sign a DE and draft a couple, and a DT is a priority, too.

If we had another day 1 pick I'd disagree with you about having to sign Kerney. I think we can land a DE in the draft but, IMO we might have to move up to be sure we secure one. I think Moss will rise up the draft board come april. Yep we need DT bolstered too.

[-Slap-]

Neil Smith was getting near the end of a brilliant career when he came to Denver. After 1997, which was a career rebirth for him, his play began to decline further, understandably, and he was gone two years later.

Kerney had been a top 15 DE throughout his career, but not on the level of Smith. He's been very durable and he keeps himself in great shape. He's also a year younger than Smith was when we acquired him. I think he probably has more left than Neil did and that had better be the case because he's going to cost us substantially more than Smith, who was thought to be pretty much washed up when he left KC.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I posted it in another thread but I just saw (FOX News) Shanny and some Broncos laughing and carrying-on in a Nuggets luxury suite with Daniel Graham and Ahman Green...Kerney was no where in site.

Kerney was at the USAFA with Bill Johnson and Lynch watching boxing.

[theAPAOps5]

Security at DIA should have joined in and barred those Seahawk coaches from entering the premisis

I will almost guarantee they brought a team jet or chartered through NetJets to fly them out. I work out at Centennial and see all of them come and go. I work for the airport authority itself so I can't say when or where but they come through there. Especially with Dove Valley litterally across the street. Alas, I was off shift yesterday or I would have found something wrong with our big runway and shut it down for the day :D

I will talk to the FBO guys, the ones who fuel the planes, they know all the coming and goings. See if anyone was in/out of there yesterday.

[Kaylore]

Kerney was at the USAFA with Bill Johnson and Lynch watching boxing.

I love how Lynch is suddenly one of our recruiters for the team. I know people respect him, but now I'm starting to think in a year he's going to hang up the cleats and become a personnel guy.

[-Slap-]

I love how Lynch is suddenly one of our recruiters for the team. I know people respect him, but now I'm starting to think in a year he's going to hang up the cleats and become a personnel guy.

I could think of nothing better than keeping John Lynch in the organization long term. I think he could be head coach or GM material.

[barters]

I'm glad Kerney is gone, I don't think he's worth anything near what he's asking.

I would love Daniel Graham, there's notheing better than having a home town player going for your team. Also, T Jones would be massive. Forget Ahman Green.

[BroncoInferno]

I'm on the fence about Kerney. I just don't like the idea of giving big bucks to a 30 year old DE who seems to be on the decline. DL are just so damn expensive in FA, which is why it's so ipmortant to draft well at the position. Given the DL depth in the draft this season, I say sign Graham and Green, maybe do a little bargain basement shopping, then fold up the tent and look towards the draft. Then take two DL guys on the first day of the draft, a S and either an OT or RB (given that Green is 30, I think we'd still need to draft a youngster for depth somewhere in the draft).

[sirhcyennek81]

Get real, Kerney is on the decline, and is no where on the level that Neil Smith was. Also, Kerney has been injured the last couple of years, and isn't worth the money he will be offered.


First time he has missed any extensive time in his career was this past season.


:Broncos:

[MechanicalBull]

Kerney is getting up there in age but he has not been injured the past couple years. Except for last year he has played in all 16 games every year he has been in the league. He is definitley an upgrade over the guys we have now.

[Atlas]

Kerney is getting up there in age but he has not been injured the past couple years. Except for last year he has played in all 16 games every year he has been in the league. He is definitley an upgrade over the guys we have now.


He is an upgrade but how much and at what cost?

I say pass.

[MechanicalBull]

He is an upgrade but how much and at what cost?

I say pass.

That's the question and I dont know if anyone knows the answer of how much of an upgrade he would be until he plays. Of course I don't think he is going to be all world but I do think he will help a lot.

[Mediator12]

Kerney is a major uprgade at LDE, almost as good as Dre Bly is at #2 CB. The thing is he can not make the DL better all by himself. Getting him would show the commitment to win next year, Drafting DL solely would mean 08 before solid DL play could be expected.

Solid DL play is crucial to defensive effectiveness. We have seen how an Inconsistent DL has hurt this team the last two years with talented veterans. Think how inconsistent even TOP rookies play in their first 16 game season and hopefully the playoffs. They need a top VET DL in FA, a Stopgap DT in FA, and two draft picks to address the problem significantly. That is how bad the DL has become.

[Drek]

If we land Kerney we need to promptly address DT in the draft, and in a big way. Should Alan Branch start to slide we'd be foolish not to go up after him, other than that make sure to get Tank Tyler, Mebane, or some other quality DT in round 2.

[ludo21]

<--------------------------- :thanku:




AMEN!!

REP! :strong:

[elsid13]

Forgot the pass rush, Denver needs animals on the line to stop the run. If Kerney is able to stop the run in early down great, if not find someone else.

[Paladin]

I admit to ambivalence regarding Kerney and Green. Graham would be fine, but I think I'd rather see Scheffler get more opportunities to develop his skill sets. Getting the DE/DT/S in the draft is somewhat risky and it takes time for rookies to get into the game, as it were. So, it seems to me that Shanahan is a bit more intent to get into and win in the playoffs this year. So, if they get Kerney, I would expect one DT drafted and a S. BPA after that, and maybe a LB because I could see Gold getting cut......

[elsid13]

The signing of Graham likely means the release of Alexander. I am still a little confused with Denver apparently great demand to get him, especially with Scheffer on the roster. The only thing I can think of, is that we will be using the two TE set will be our base formation next year. Guess this means that KJ and Sapp are going to be more part time role players. I real prefer the old I formation.

[Broncojef]

Graham is a solid target for a young QB that can throw anywhere on the field and he is an awesome run blocker. He represents a TE quality we haven't had on the roster since Shanon Sharpe. Do we have TE's? Yes, but none of his caliber. Shanny likes the two TE formations and Graham would be a stud in this system. I also feel Sheffler could stand to learn alot from a guy like Graham. I also like the fact that guys like graham and Bly are SuperBowl winners and will bring a certain leadership/swagger back to this team.

[Play2win]

Two Great TE target is exactly what a Sniper like Cutler needs. He can fire the ball in there on a rope to these big guys and it will open up the rest of the field to all sorts of loose coverage and open running lanes.

[Mediator12]

Forgot the pass rush, Denver needs animals on the line to stop the run. If Kerney is able to stop the run in early down great, if not find someone else.

Do you mean forget the pass rush? If so, what are you thinking? The pass rush sets up everything else on defense to succeed. Run defense is about desire, recognition, and playing hard. Something our current crop of DL are poor at doing consistently. Pass rush is about athletic ability, technique, and innate skills. You can not just manufacture pass rushers, which is why they are so coveted in today's NFL. Scheme can only do so much to that.

Kerney is a rare complete DE who has a high motor. I am truly dumbfounded at how many people here think he is overrated. He is better than any DE DEN has had including Pryce @ DE. He actually plays every snap hard, while Pryce is more physically gifted he has an inconsistent motor.

Guess what, you also have to pay to get these guys unless you draft them. Will he be able to impact this DL, oh yeah. How much depends on how much they clean house and bring in consistent help for him. Guys who are motivated by how hard the guy next to you is working. Guys NOT like Warren, Ekuban, and Lang. Myers gives his all, but he is limited physically.

Draft two guys and get another high motor FA DT and this defense with Bly could take it to the next level. Draft a Safety with range to compliment what we already have and I would fall just short of gauranteeing it.

My problem has always been Shanahan has treated the defense as a necessary evil, instead of truly committing to a scheme like he has on offense. That offense has been the hallmark of his coaching Identity and the reason less talented overall players can play above their talent. he needs to treat the defense the same, but I am not sure his ego will allow him to make that commitment.

Hopefully, he has learned that lesson from the Coyer Era. Coyer switched his schemes every year to fit the players handed to him. They never got to play a scheme from year to year because of the different style of DL available. The Late 2005 zero blitz scheme had to be ditched after the offseason because teams had plenty of time to find and exploit its drastic weaknesses. That did not leave much more than a variation on the early 2005 Scheme that became the Cover 3 zone variants they adapted last year from the man coverage they employed in 2005.

Jim Bates is a DC that is truly married to his system. I pray that he gets Shanahan to buy into it like he has his players in the past. They have most of the pieces outside of the DL now. If they retool the DL to Bates Scheme and develop it, they are just going to get better than they were the last two years. Bates system is simple and easy enough to learn for Rookies. They could have some immediate success next year.

The only concern I have with just Drafting DL is that the rookies just might wear down like the veterans did this year. Rookies have a hard time adjusting to the much longer and demanding schedule both physically and Mentally. The NCAA rules no longer apply and they have to put more hours in each week and less partying that first year than college.

[cabronco]

I dont like the fact of kerney leaving Denver without a deal done and heading to Seattle. The Seahawks have punked us out before on d-line free agents. Maybe he's asking for too much here, where we wouldnt be able to address TE, Rb, and back up Qb. ? I dunno , but it blows.

[Rascal]

As much as I would like to get Kerney, I feel the draft holds our DE for 2007. Bring in the RB and TE and let's call it a wrap on early FA. Then after the draft do some bargain shopping.

I agree. What I think we should have done was offer our fifth for James Hall (DE) who is cheaper and younger then Kerney. All well.

[Rohirrim]

As much as I would like to get Kerney, I feel the draft holds our DE for 2007. Bring in the RB and TE and let's call it a wrap on early FA. Then after the draft do some bargain shopping.

I agree. Kerney would make a good addition, but why overpay? This draft is filled with good Dlinemen. Do what we did with DBs and draft three of them.

[elsid13]

Do you mean forget the pass rush? If so, what are you thinking? The pass rush sets up everything else on defense to succeed. Run defense is about desire, recognition, and playing hard. Something our current crop of DL are poor at doing consistently. Pass rush is about athletic ability, technique, and innate skills. You can not just manufacture pass rushers, which is why they are so coveted in today's NFL. Scheme can only do so much to that.

Kerney is a rare complete DE who has a high motor. I am truly dumbfounded at how many people here think he is overrated. He is better than any DE DEN has had including Pryce @ DE. He actually plays every snap hard, while Pryce is more physically gifted he has an inconsistent motor.

Guess what, you also have to pay to get these guys unless you draft them. Will he be able to impact this DL, oh yeah. How much depends on how much they clean house and bring in consistent help for him. Guys who are motivated by how hard the guy next to you is working. Guys NOT like Warren, Ekuban, and Lang. Myers gives his all, but he is limited physically.

Draft two guys and get another high motor FA DT and this defense with Bly could take it to the next level. Draft a Safety with range to compliment what we already have and I would fall just short of gauranteeing it.

My problem has always been Shanahan has treated the defense as a necessary evil, instead of truly committing to a scheme like he has on offense. That offense has been the hallmark of his coaching Identity and the reason less talented overall players can play above their talent. he needs to treat the defense the same, but I am not sure his ego will allow him to make that commitment.

Hopefully, he has learned that lesson from the Coyer Era. Coyer switched his schemes every year to fit the players handed to him. They never got to play a scheme from year to year because of the different style of DL available. The Late 2005 zero blitz scheme had to be ditched after the offseason because teams had plenty of time to find and exploit its drastic weaknesses. That did not leave much more than a variation on the early 2005 Scheme that became the Cover 3 zone variants they adapted last year from the man coverage they employed in 2005.

Jim Bates is a DC that is truly married to his system. I pray that he gets Shanahan to buy into it like he has his players in the past. They have most of the pieces outside of the DL now. If they retool the DL to Bates Scheme and develop it, they are just going to get better than they were the last two years. Bates system is simple and easy enough to learn for Rookies. They could have some immediate success next year.

The only concern I have with just Drafting DL is that the rookies just might wear down like the veterans did this year. Rookies have a hard time adjusting to the much longer and demanding schedule both physically and Mentally. The NCAA rules no longer apply and they have to put more hours in each week and less partying that first year than college.


I feel that Denver doesn't have the bodies to stop the run on early down, that gives their opponents to many options in 3rd down situation. We need someone that stop the run. In addition we have have rotational guys - Lang, Elvis, EE that can get to QB if it 3rd and long. Add in DE from deep draft class in that area pass rush is fine. But the key is stopping the run early.