Dubya looking at his legacy [Archive] - The Orange Mane

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Atlas

02-18-2007, 11:24 AM

Bush looks to historic parallels for final legacy
By Steve Holland

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In the Lincoln Bedroom, President George W. Bush likes to show off one of the most treasured historical artifacts in the White House, a handwritten copy of Abraham Lincoln's 1863 Gettysburg Address.

The building's walls speak of past battles, victories, defeats, heartache. President George Washington's portrait hangs in the Oval Office. Civil War Commander and two-term President Ulysses Grant is placed in Bush's private study.

The Queen's Bedroom offers memories of Winston Churchill, who stayed there before and after World War Two, as Bush told C-SPAN, "waddling around ... with a cigar in one hand, a brandy in the other, demanding attention."

As Bush marks the Presidents Day holiday and George Washington's 275th birthday on Monday, he faces a drumbeat a criticism for the event that will likely be a big part of his legacy -- the Iraq war.

The president believes it will take some time to determine his place in the pantheon of presidents, despite the negative assessments some historians have already made.

"I don't think you'll really get the full history of the Bush administration until long after I'm gone. I tell people I'm reading books on George Washington and they're still analyzing his presidency," Bush told CBS' "60 Minutes" in an interview last month.

Many in the current crop of historians are already prepared to declare Bush's presidency a failure.

In a December opinion article in The Washington Post, Columbia University history professor Eric Foner wrote that Bush was likely to join mediocre presidents like Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan and Andrew Johnson.

"Even after being repudiated in the midterm elections of 1854, 1858 and 1866, respectively, they ignored major currents of public opinion and clung to flawed policies. Bush's presidency certainly brings theirs to mind," Foner wrote.

Foner's article was headlined, "He's the worst ever."

BE LIKE IKE?

But Vanderbilt University history professor Thomas Alan Schwartz said it was too soon to judge Bush. "Presidential reputations tend to go up and down," he said.

He cited Dwight Eisenhower as a president whose stock has risen in the decades since he handed over power to John Kennedy in 1961.

"But Bush will face some enormous obstacles to being fully rehabilitated. Much does depend on Iraq, but even if that does not end in disaster -- still an open question -- the mistakes made in the occupation will be ascribed to him. Were Osama Bin Laden to be captured or killed before Bush leaves office, that could help, but the uncertainties involving Afghanistan will also hurt him," Schwartz said.

Bush, a Republican, sees historical parallels in Democrat Harry Truman's presidency. Truman set in motion the Cold War doctrine that shifted U.S. foreign policy from one of getting along with the Soviet Union to trying to contain its expansion.

Bush sees his ultimate legacy as starting a years-long effort to check a radical Islamist militant movement from spreading globally. He sees Iraq as a central battleground.

"Today, at the start of a new century, we are again engaged in a war unlike any our nation has fought before. And like Americans in Truman's day, we are laying the foundations for victory," he said last May.

After Truman, presidents from Eisenhower to Ronald Reagan confronted the Soviet threat. Will future presidents similarly continue to wage Bush's war on terrorism?

Many of the 2008 presidential candidates are searching for a way out of Iraq. Illinois Democratic Sen. Barack Obama (news, bio, voting record), for example, says he would bring U.S. forces home by March 2008.

And Obama's comments on the war on terrorism, laid out in his February 10 speech announcing his candidacy, did not appear as muscular as the president's. He said terrorists could be tracked down with a stronger military and better intelligence.

"But let us also understand that ultimate victory against our enemies will come only by rebuilding our alliances and exporting those ideals that bring hope and opportunity to millions around the globe," Obama said.

Crushaholic

02-19-2007, 02:53 PM

It's absolutely way too early to judge Bush's legacy. We'll see what happens in that region when our involvement in Iraq is finished...

BroncoBuff

02-19-2007, 02:58 PM

I'm comfortable with judging him now.

Denver Crush

02-19-2007, 03:05 PM

I am also comfortable with judging now. That being said, Ill save my opinion for the politic forum.

TailgateNut

02-19-2007, 03:07 PM

I'm comfortable with judging him now.

I've had enough input about his output!

Dedhed

02-19-2007, 05:11 PM

It's absolutely way too early to judge Bush's legacy. We'll see what happens in that region when our involvement in Iraq is finished...

Yeah, we won't know if he's the absolute worst or merely one of the top 2 for awhile. I've got a hunch though.

TailgateNut

02-19-2007, 05:15 PM

Yeah, we won't know if he's the absolute worst or merely one of the top 2 for awhile. I've got a hunch though.

^5

scorpio

02-19-2007, 05:22 PM

I'm comfortable with judging him now.

^^^

Paladin

02-19-2007, 05:24 PM

I'm comfortable with judging him now.

Me, too.

TheDave

02-19-2007, 05:27 PM

Does anyone really believe this guy cares about his legacy???

Crushaholic

02-19-2007, 05:31 PM

Does anyone really believe this guy cares about his legacy???

You're right. I don't believe he cares about his legacy.

BroncoBen

02-19-2007, 06:31 PM

Todays headline... 'Bush compares war on terror to U.S. revolution'.

This guy is living in his own world... nuff said.

Chupacabra

02-19-2007, 07:32 PM

So...regardless of what happens (best/worst case) following GW's presidency...you people feel you can properly judge his legacy?

Sorry folks...I'm not commenting on the good or bad of his tenure...but you cannot accurately predict his legacy unless you can accurately predict the future.
God forbid anything of the sort...but, suppose a future president's blunder gives way to a major terrorist attack on US soil and the public recieves confirmation that said attack could have been prevented directly by the oval office...will GW's legacy not improve?

History teaches me that GW's legacy will depend on the performance of future presidents.

Bronx33

02-19-2007, 07:40 PM

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/N/7/timecover.jpg

Paladin

02-19-2007, 07:46 PM

So, what you are saying is that we have to define the "lowest legacy" before he can be judged? I thought legacies had to do with the acts performed or not performed and their impact on people doing the judging. It's what he's done (past) that matters. Hopefully others learn from that......

Paladin

02-19-2007, 07:47 PM

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/N/7/timecover.jpg

Is that a judgment?

Chupacabra

02-19-2007, 08:15 PM

Would you agree that your judgement of GW's legacy could change one day?

Play2win

02-19-2007, 09:26 PM

I think his legacy should be a legal one...

gunns

02-19-2007, 09:46 PM

Does anyone really believe this guy cares about his legacy

I don't think he thinks he has to care about it. I think he's delusional about it.

Sorry folks...I'm not commenting on the good or bad of his tenure...but you cannot accurately predict his legacy unless you can accurately predict the future.
God forbid anything of the sort...but, suppose a future president's blunder gives way to a major terrorist attack on US soil and the public recieves confirmation that said attack could have been prevented directly by the oval office...will GW's legacy not improve?

I think that future President will be judged by a future attack. It will in no way absolve Bush of any of his blunders. The fact of the matter is that he is trying to contain the spread of radical Islam's which is fine, but Iraq was not the central battleground and Bush's job was defending an attack on America which he failed in miserably. Now a future President may have an attack because Bush didn't do his job. Also let's throw in Katrina, education, health care. I don't see a future President changing any of that for Bush.

baja

02-19-2007, 09:59 PM

Yeah, we won't know if he's the absolute worst or merely one of the top 2 for awhile. I've got a hunch though.

Who would be the other worthy of being mentioned in his limboisk lows.

Chupacabra

02-19-2007, 10:00 PM

I don't think he thinks he has to care about it. I think he's delusional about it.

I think that future President will be judged by a future attack. It will in no way absolve Bush of any of his blunders. The fact of the matter is that he is trying to contain the spread of radical Islam's which is fine, but Iraq was not the central battleground and Bush's job was defending an attack on America which he failed in miserably. Now a future President may have an attack because Bush didn't do his job. Also let's throw in Katrina, education, health care. I don't see a future President changing any of that for Bush.

Sure. I agree that a future President's poor performance would not absolve Bush' blunders. However, it may change the scale by which we pass judgement of his blunders. A future president's mistakes could make Bush's failures look miniscule in comparison. In this case, I contend that many people would ignore/forget mistakes made by the Bush administration. Never underestimate the ignorance of the public.

Stuck In Texas

02-19-2007, 10:40 PM

Paladin

02-19-2007, 11:12 PM

Who would be the other worthy of being mentioned in his limboisk lows.

Franklyn Pierce, William Henry Harrison ( yeah, he didn't do anything and that's the point), Herbert Hoover, Taft, several others.

baja

02-19-2007, 11:48 PM

Dedhed

02-20-2007, 12:15 AM

Sure. I agree that a future President's poor performance would not absolve Bush' blunders. However, it may change the scale by which we pass judgement of his blunders. A future president's mistakes could make Bush's failures look miniscule in comparison. In this case, I contend that many people would ignore/forget mistakes made by the Bush administration. Never underestimate the ignorance of the public.

So, you're saying that we can only call him "the worst president yet"? I'm fine with that. After all Jeb is still out there, and maybe considering a 2012 run.

Dedhed

02-20-2007, 12:20 AM

Who would be the other worthy of being mentioned in his limboisk lows.
I thought about this for awhile, and I think it would be an insult to every president who came before him to even mention a name. Of course that will only be confirmed in due time, but W looks like Secretariat in this race.

Blueflame

02-20-2007, 12:31 AM

Personally, agree with him or disagree with him, I'm glad that he is governing by his principles and not only trying to preserve his legacy. I know the great majority in the world despise him, but I think he truly believes that what he's doing is right.

Fixed it for ya... :P

Atlas

02-20-2007, 01:27 AM

Personally, agree with him or disagree with him, I'm glad that he is governing by his principles and not only trying to preserve his legacy. I know the great majority on this board despise him, but I think he truly believes that what he's doing is right.

Yes, He sure does believe in the **** he is trying to sell us.

Religion makes for a nice hobby but no one should rule a country from it.

Atlas

02-20-2007, 01:31 AM

Fixed it for ya... :P

He is the most hated man in the world.

More hated than Saddam, more hated than Bin Laden, Hell, I bet if a poll was taken he would probably be more despised than Hitler.

Bronco Bob

02-20-2007, 02:22 AM

So did Hitler.

Godwin's Law.

Stuck In Texas

02-20-2007, 06:50 AM

defenseman

02-20-2007, 09:16 AM

TailgateNut

02-20-2007, 09:26 AM

Personally, agree with him or disagree with him, I'm glad that he is governing by his principles and not only trying to preserve his legacy. I know the great majority on this board despise him, but I think he truly believes that what he's doing is right.

You are as delusional as he! HE HAS NO POSITIVE PRINCIPLES!

Rohirrim

02-20-2007, 09:37 AM

Personally, agree with him or disagree with him, I'm glad that he is governing by his principles and not only trying to preserve his legacy. I know the great majority on this board despise him, but I think he truly believes that what he's doing is right.

So did Charlie Manson. Just the fact that Bush thinks of his own legacy in terms of George Washington and Winston Churchill illustrates what a deluded little man he is.

alkemical

02-20-2007, 09:39 AM

Rohirrim

02-20-2007, 09:42 AM

She didn't edit your original post. ANd the fixed it for you routine is pretty std it seems on msg boards.

Dman is convinced that he somehow has obtained the necessary elevation to look down upon us mere mortals and comment on our behavior.

alkemical

02-20-2007, 09:45 AM

Dman is convinced that he somehow has obtained the necessary elevation to look down upon us mere mortals and comment on our behavior.

I had to find what and where this edit took place at, and when i saw what was done i just kinda laughed. I've done and had it done to me. It's just a std sort of routine. Often times i use it for satire - since most of the time it's just 6degress from where they are.

baja

02-20-2007, 09:50 AM

Dman is convinced that he somehow has obtained the necessary elevation to look down upon us mere mortals and comment on our behavior.

It has something to do with his spending the last thirty years breathing submarine air.

When you breath the recycled farts of 200 seamen it tends to make you full of shiit.

alkemical

02-20-2007, 09:52 AM

It has something to do with his spending the last thirty years breathing submarine air.

When you breath the recycled farts of 200 seamen it tends to make you full of shiit.

yeah...well.... You're a mac user! Mac-head!

;)

baja

02-20-2007, 09:54 AM

I just priced a mac pro with as much hardware as possible and it is only 15,800 dollars. ;D

It has 3t HD

defenseman

02-20-2007, 10:04 AM

Dman is convinced that he somehow has obtained the necessary elevation to look down upon us mere mortals and comment on our behavior.

The routine / standard is FUBAR.....it is those who "make adjustments" to ANY take who look down upon others, and it is a disgraceful practice. Will I comment on this poor behavior, absolutely. Because it is freaking wrong. You don't like it, tough tiddly winks pal. My commenting on it, is just as valid, if not MORE than anyone who adjusts someones take. In short, just who the hell does anyone think they are that they can make adjustments to ANYONE'S take? You are dead wrong, they are the ones with a distinct attitude of "self importance", not me. I'm just blasting them for it. And will continue to do so whenever possible. Freaking legends in their own mind a$$holes..dman

baja

02-20-2007, 10:04 AM

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Find out how to get your order for as low as $449.00 per month with a Juniper Visa Card.

Who says Macs are expensive ;D

Rohirrim

02-20-2007, 10:17 AM

The routine / standard is FUBAR.....it is those who "make adjustments" to ANY take who look down upon others, and it is a disgraceful practice. Will I comment on this poor behavior, absolutely. Because it is freaking wrong. You don't like it, tough tiddly winks pal. My commenting on it, is just as valid, if not MORE than anyone who adjusts someones take. In short, just who the hell does anyone think they are that they can make adjustments to ANYONE'S take? You are dead wrong, they are the ones with a distinct attitude of "self importance", not me. I'm just blasting them for it. And will continue to do so whenever possible. Freaking legends in their own mind a$$holes..dman

Flame did not alter his ORIGINAL post. She copied it and made changes for satirical effect. Isn't that what satire is all about? You want to outlaw satire?

defenseman

02-20-2007, 10:25 AM

Flame did not alter his ORIGINAL post. She copied it and made changes for satirical effect. Isn't that what satire is all about? You want to outlaw satire?

Don't like the method employed. Don't care for the tactic. I consider it borderline demeaning. As far as I'm concerned, she can be satirical in another way. That "fixed it for you" crap is a bunch of garbage. On the same note, IF the original post is undeterred, I'll reset my take. Damn though, if I'm going to knuckle to this sort of garbage, it is in itself, very insulting and should not be promoted.......dman

*I guess I have no sense of humor for this sort of shenanigans and do get fired up sometimes about the practice in question.

TailgateNut

02-20-2007, 10:32 AM

[QUOTE=defenseman;1487504]

*I guess I have no sense of humor QUOTE]

That sums it up!

Disclaimer: I didn't fix it for you. Lighten up BubbleMan!

defenseman

02-20-2007, 11:04 AM

[QUOTE=defenseman;1487504]

*I guess I have no sense of humor QUOTE]

That sums it up!

Disclaimer: I didn't fix it for you. Lighten up BubbleMan!

"*I guess I have no sense of humor for this sort of shenanigans "

Use the ENTIRE quote next time. Selective cut and paste doesn't tell the whole story.

Never heard of bubbleman. However, "bubblehead" is how submariners are commonly referred to by those who are "target sailors"...dman

alkemical

02-21-2007, 07:02 PM

Gary Hart said this 3 days after 9/11 (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/senator_gary_hart_9-14-2001.mp3)

Spider

02-21-2007, 07:09 PM

Yeah, we won't know if he's the absolute worst or merely one of the top 2 for awhile. I've got a hunch though.

LOL should have been the last post on this thread

baja

02-21-2007, 07:28 PM

Gary Hart said this 3 days after 9/11 (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/senator_gary_hart_9-14-2001.mp3)

George the Ist used that phrase, One World Order, more than once but suddenly stopped and to my knowledge it has not been uttered since. He was also fond of saying, "A thousand points of lights"

Blueflame

02-21-2007, 07:49 PM

The last few posts - to include one where a supposed mod edited my post to make it read like she wants- show me that there is no way to have a reasonable discussion about this topic, so I'm out, and I'll sit back and watch you all post things you can't possibly think are true. It will be entertaining.
I did not edit your post. It's still there on page one of the thread, just as you posted it. I altered my post.

Taco John, FIX your mods IF they in fact did this. This is insulting and causes your credibility to be in question, DIRECT reflection on you pal. Second, if SHE is in fact the culprit, PERHAPS it's time to get a new damn MOD, wouldn't you say....freaking meddling malcontents sometimes is what this sort of thing breeds..dman

*IF it wasn't a moderator. good. However, the malcontent messing with takes needs to get a healthy freaking dose of humility, meddling wimp..
Again, his post is unchanged. Any poster can quote another poster and change a phrase in the quoted text to "make it more accurate from their viewpoint"... it doesn't require a mod to do it.

Don't like the method employed. Don't care for the tactic. I consider it borderline demeaning. As far as I'm concerned, she can be satirical in another way. That "fixed it for you" crap is a bunch of garbage. On the same note, IF the original post is undeterred, I'll reset my take. Damn though, if I'm going to knuckle to this sort of garbage, it is in itself, very insulting and should not be promoted.......dman

*I guess I have no sense of humor for this sort of shenanigans and do get fired up sometimes about the practice in question.
Y'know, reading through the thread before getting angry and going off on a rant could be beneficial to your blood pressure....

Talk about a tempest in a teapot..... ::)

Blueflame

02-21-2007, 07:54 PM

Oh, and back on the subject....

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/washingtonwhispers/070220/doh_bush_way_worse_than_nixon.htm

alkemical

02-21-2007, 08:02 PM

alkemical

02-21-2007, 08:04 PM