PDA

View Full Version : General Baseball Thread 2007


Pages : 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

Clockwork Orange
05-06-2007, 08:19 PM
Lincecum rebounds to strike out Utley & Howard. Yikes!

Clockwork Orange
05-06-2007, 08:24 PM
And he ends up striking out the side with the two runs, two hits and a walk.

Pretty common stuff for a rookie making his first start. Kid can dial it up for being so slight of build.

Crowpointer
05-06-2007, 08:49 PM
Roger Clemens is a Yankee. He's in the booth talking to the YES announcers about it right now.

What a Circus that will be when he comes to town. This will provide some first class entertainment just like the old days. He should have finished up with the Sox But I guess his friend Pettitte was too much of a draw.

Hogan11
05-07-2007, 07:34 AM
The big man scoring the go ahead run from second on a hard hit ball to center!

How did your boy Capps like that one, Hogan?

Okay, because I was following the game via MLB Gameday, I wasn't fully aware of all that went down on that sliding score by Fielder. I agree 100% with Doumit that his actions were pretty bush league....Man-Child indeed, it appears he still needs to grow up some.

WABronco
05-07-2007, 09:45 PM
Rivera blows one again!!!! AB takes him deep on a high fastball!

Clockwork Orange
05-07-2007, 10:32 PM
Tulowitzki gets screwed out of a go ahead home run in the 9th inning because the umpire couldn't waddle his fat ass out there far enough to see the ball hit the railing behind the wall. That's twice in three days that the Rockies have been hosed out of a home run on the same call. Atkins got cheated out of one in Cincy on Saturday.

****ing ridiculous. At least Hurdle bothered to stand up for his player this time.

TheChamp24
05-07-2007, 11:08 PM
Rockies are playing a lot better baseball of late now. The guys are hitting now, although some still aren't, but its decent so far.
Umps blew a homerun call on Troy Tulowitzki, he should've been awarded a homerun in the top of the 9th but it was called a double. Still scored and Rockies win. 14-18, getting back to .500. Hopfully they can win another game in St. Louis to win this series as well. Then, to face San Fran for 4 games.

TheChamp24
05-07-2007, 11:09 PM
Tulowitzki gets screwed out of a go ahead home run in the 9th inning because the umpire couldn't waddle his fat ass out there far enough to see the ball hit the railing behind the wall. That's twice in three days that the Rockies have been hosed out of a home run on the same call. Atkins got cheated out of one in Cincy on Saturday.

****ing ridiculous. At least Hurdle bothered to stand up for his player this time.

Yeah. One thing I want to know is, shouldn't you realize that if a ball bounced that far back into play, it couldn't of hit anything but the railing or concrete BEHIND the wall?

-Slap-
05-08-2007, 01:39 AM
Okay, because I was following the game via MLB Gameday, I wasn't fully aware of all that went down on that sliding score by Fielder. I agree 100% with Doumit that his actions were pretty bush league....Man-Child indeed, it appears he still needs to grow up some.

After getting plunked by Capps the night before, 90% of the 23 year olds in MLB would have reacted in similar fashion. A few hard words in the heat of battle never killed anybody.

Besides, Hogan, you know as well as I do that every major league club has to pair off with one or two teams to feud with to make the summer more interesting. It looks like the Pirates have the Brewers on their dance card this year.......:~ohyah!:

-Slap-
05-08-2007, 01:41 AM
Roy Oswalt is a true Reds' Menace. He ran his lifetime mark against Cincinnatti to an unbelievable 19-1 today. Shanahan doesn't even own Al Davis that completely.

Clockwork Orange
05-08-2007, 02:02 AM
After getting plunked by Capps the night before, 90% of the 23 year olds in MLB would have reacted in similar fashion. A few hard words in the heat of battle never killed anybody.

Reminds me of Holliday vs. Cain last year. Cain plunked him in his first at bat, Holliday responded with a 450 foot blast off of him in his next. Cain stared at him as he was headed for first and Holliday responded by yelling "Yeah bitch!!" at him a couple of times.

**** happens sometimes.

Pendejo
05-08-2007, 02:14 AM
Reminds me of Holliday vs. Cain last year. Cain plunked him in his first at bat, Holliday responded with a 450 foot blast off of him in his next. Cain stared at him as he was headed for first and Holliday responded by yelling "Yeah b****!!" at him a couple of times.

**** happens sometimes.

One of my favorites occurred in the early '90's. Bruce Hurst hit Kevin Mitchell on the foot with a 60 mph hook, and Mitchell charged the mound. It was funny because you could tell that Hurst couldn't quite believe what was happening. Mitchell pushed him down, but when he cocked his arm to sock Bruce...he got absolutely freight trained from behind by The Crime Dog.

I wouldn't be surprised if something happens between the rockies and the Madres at some point this year.

-Slap-
05-08-2007, 02:30 AM
Reminds me of Holliday vs. Cain last year. Cain plunked him in his first at bat, Holliday responded with a 450 foot blast off of him in his next. Cain stared at him as he was headed for first and Holliday responded by yelling "Yeah b****!!" at him a couple of times.

**** happens sometimes.

Plus, Prince just motored his 5'10", 260 pound frame home from second and executed a sweet hook slide to elude a great throw. Needless to say, the normally soft-spoken kid was jacked up big time.

I loved the fantastic diving play he made going to his right a couple innings earlier, too. The guy is just an outstanding all around ballplayer.

BTW, its a damn good thing Paulino didn't try and block the plate the other day. Tood Greene found out the hard way last season what happens when you go that route with Prince.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1345/giants0098df400x241kk5.jpg

Clockwork Orange
05-08-2007, 02:39 AM
For the sake of accuracy, let me correct myself. Holliday's blast off of Cain was 478 feet.

http://colorado.rockies.mlb.com/team/player_career.jsp?player_id=407812

...his long ball Sept. 19 vs. San Francisco off Matt Cain was estimated at 478 feet, the longest at Coors Field in '06...

:~ohyah!:

Taco John
05-08-2007, 02:50 AM
ouch... My batters gave me a 1 for 31 outing today....

Clockwork Orange
05-08-2007, 03:02 AM
ouch... My batters gave me a 1 for 31 outing today....

Ouch, that'll leave a mark.

Dare I ask who the non-conformist who got the hit was?

Taco John
05-08-2007, 04:55 AM
A guy goes by the name Victor got me my only hit. Matt Holliday was kind enough to take a base on balls for me to boost the OPS a little.

Jens1893
05-08-2007, 05:00 AM
Your kid grows quickly, TJ.

Taco John
05-08-2007, 05:36 AM
Your kid grows quickly, TJ.


You're telling me!

OrangeShadow
05-08-2007, 06:58 AM
Beckett goes for 7-0 tonight,vs toronto it will be a tall task

Hogan11
05-08-2007, 10:16 AM
After getting plunked by Capps the night before, 90% of the 23 year olds in MLB would have reacted in similar fashion. A few hard words in the heat of battle never killed anybody.

Besides, Hogan, you know as well as I do that every major league club has to pair off with one or two teams to feud with to make the summer more interesting. It looks like the Pirates have the Brewers on their dance card this year.......:~ohyah!:

Plus, Prince just motored his 5'10", 260 pound frame home from second and executed a sweet hook slide to elude a great throw. Needless to say, the normally soft-spoken kid was jacked up big time.

I loved the fantastic diving play he made going to his right a couple innings earlier, too. The guy is just an outstanding all around ballplayer.

BTW, its a damn good thing Paulino didn't try and block the plate the other day. Tood Greene found out the hard way last season what happens when you go that route with Prince.

You could be right about the dance card....especially after this crap ruling on Capps that came down...this is nothing but pure bullshat.

Capps is no headhunter and it's unlike him to fire at a batter on purpose.....he's never been known to do it before. So, one may have gotten away from him and it plunks this tub of goo in the shoulder and he gets a four game suspension and a fine because of it? ???

That's excessive bullshat and I hope Matt appeals it ASAP.

elsid13
05-08-2007, 05:57 PM
Beckett goes for 7-0 tonight,vs toronto it will be a tall task

Going to be tough for some reason the Sox struggle against Toronto pitching.

Hogan11
05-08-2007, 08:14 PM
Ian on the mound tonight against the Cubs....the Buccos have been somewhat successful against them thus far this year. Optimisim springs eternal...

Let's Go Bucs!..............okay, so it's more like "Help us God!" at this point...but you gotta stay faithful.

Drek
05-08-2007, 09:48 PM
Going to be tough for some reason the Sox struggle against Toronto pitching.

Not tonight. Already 9-1 and Dustin Pedroia has hit his first career MLB homerun.

WABronco
05-08-2007, 09:52 PM
Errr...Manny being...errr...Manny

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1wy7h_red-sox-love

TheChamp24
05-08-2007, 10:00 PM
Errr...Manny being...errr...Manny

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1wy7h_red-sox-love

Love the announcer "Stop it! Make him stop!" between laughs

elsid13
05-08-2007, 10:23 PM
Beckett has another good performence and set his record to 7 and 0

TheChamp24
05-08-2007, 11:13 PM
Okay, Rockies need serious bullpen help. A lot of these guys would be lucky to sniff major league jobs on other clubs. Bautista has ZERO control, a lot of guys who are just too raw as well and others who just suck.
Also doesn't help when your offense scores 1 lousy run all game long.

OrangeShadow
05-09-2007, 06:04 AM
hey wheres taco with his beckett is a catch 22 crap?

elsid13
05-09-2007, 06:47 AM
hey wheres taco with his beckett is a catch 22 crap?

It is still early in the season, but Beckett is making a strong early case for CY Young this year. Hope TJ won't pull a llama

Crowpointer
05-09-2007, 06:55 AM
hey wheres taco with his beckett is a catch 22 crap?

What a difference a year makes when last year the sportwriters were second guessing the trade . Now with Anibal Sanchez.demoted (and now on ir) and Lowell kicking butt and Beckett 7-0 the trade (for 2007 at least) is paying off for the good guys (although Hanley Ramirez is awesome)

elsid13
05-09-2007, 07:18 AM
What a difference a year makes when last year the sportwriters were second guessing the trade . Now with Anibal Sanchez.demoted (and now on ir) and Lowell kicking butt and Beckett 7-0 the trade (for 2007 at least) is paying off for the good guys (although Hanley Ramirez is awesome)

Hanley Ramirez is also a head case. Though it to bad we didn't keep him he would have been nice addition to batting order.

OrangeShadow
05-09-2007, 07:27 AM
Beckett was just stubborn last year, refused to change his style. Now he doesnt move his hands way above his head and he also moved more to the right of the rubber. Those two changes seemed to have help him immensley and you know the sox will score runs.Beckett and John Farell have done a hell of a job so far.
There was one at bat vs baltimore i think it was where he struck a guy out on 3 pitches. The sequence was curveball,changeup,curveball. Last year you would of NEVER saw that, lasy year it was hard harder and hardest. He has figured out how to PITCH instead of just throw.

elsid13
05-09-2007, 07:38 AM
I also think that having Tek behind the plate, helps settle Beckett down due to the trust factor. Tek lose to injury last season was the turning point of going downhill.

-Slap-
05-09-2007, 08:52 AM
Hanley Ramirez is Jose Reyes Lite. I know BoSox fans like to follow Peter Gammons cue and minimize his talent (now that he's gone), but that kid is the real deal.

Hogan11
05-09-2007, 09:21 AM
Buccos pulled it out in 15 and Capps is appealing the BS ruling....it's a good morning for a change.

Drek
05-09-2007, 10:02 AM
Hanley Ramirez is Jose Reyes Lite. I know BoSox fans like to follow Peter Gammons cue and minimize his talent (now that he's gone), but that kid is the real deal.

Any Sox fan that minimizes Ramirez' talent is just fooling themselves. He's been a 5 tool player since we signed him, he just never put it together. He has now in the majors. Just because an 18 year old who barely speaks english has some adjustment issues that doesn't make him a bad kid. He's a great player.

That said, Ramirez and Sanchez, then both only AA players the former without a single great season under his belt, the former was only a few years removed from a major injury. You take a 25 year old World Series MVP in exchange every day of the week.

Beckett's been dealing this year. He's made a lot of smart adjustments to make it happen. Its not just using his breaking pitches more because last year they weren't spotting they he needed them to. His delivery is slower, his arms don't come up as high before the kick, and he now toes the rubber dead center all the time instead of shifting from side to side depending on where he's locating. Some major work was done in the off-season, hell of a thing for a young fireballer with all the talent in the world to do.

-Slap-
05-09-2007, 10:05 AM
I think it was the classic trade that helps both teams.

Taco John
05-09-2007, 10:57 AM
hey wheres taco with his beckett is a catch 22 crap?


I ate my crow on Beckett a long time ago.

OrangeShadow
05-09-2007, 12:27 PM
I ate my crow on Beckett a long time ago.

I gotcha:thumbs: , just never saw it and its always fun to rub it in a bit :giggle:

And when the sox dealt hanley they thought edgar renteria was the long term SS for the team. Turned out he wasnt but it was still a great deal.

Smelvin
05-09-2007, 12:50 PM
Hanley Ramirez is Jose Reyes Lite. I know BoSox fans like to follow Peter Gammons cue and minimize his talent (now that he's gone), but that kid is the real deal.

Three years ago, when the BoSox were in a pennant chase and in need of a SP, the BoSox offered Hanley Ramirez, then a AA shortstop, to the Giants straight up for Jason Schmidt, a FA a year from then. The Giants talked themelves into the silly notion that they were contenders, and rejected the deal.

Just another (post-2002) Sabean blunder. That was a big one. Hanley is exactly what the Giants need. Sh!t, he's what every team needs. Two years from now he'll be a perrenial 30/30 guy.

Drek
05-09-2007, 01:40 PM
I think it was the classic trade that helps both teams.

Yep. Dustin Pedroia was a collegiate golden spikes candidate for three years, defensive player of the year, and has been a minor league all-star at every stop along his brief pro career. He wasn't given a two week grace period in Boston.

Young guys don't get much breathing room in Boston, both from the fans and the management. They expect a contender every year, no time to break rookies into the lineup.

Had Boston not made that deal Hanley and Anibal are still toiling away in AAA obscurity and the Sox are missing a stud #2 starter as well as a gold glove caliber, slightly above average offensively, 3B'er. What's worse, Hanley has a history of not handling major change and high profile stresses well. Who's to say the kid would've even been the same if he had to start his career under the bright spotlight of Red Sox Nation.

I wish Hanley and Anibal all the best. Partly for selfish reasons (makes the Sox farm look better and shows a team willing to give talent to get talent, plus if Hanley is a true elite SS it'll put him on the market in four or five years time, exactly when Lugo's deal will be expiring) but mostly because I'll cheer for any guy who came up through the Sox farm system, especially the ones I got to watch at Hadlock for the Sea Dogs.

elsid13
05-09-2007, 05:53 PM
Drek

Have you had a chance to see Ellsbury play for the Sea Dogs? I understand that they just promoted him to the PAWSOX and that he one the top prospects in the system.

OrangeShadow
05-09-2007, 06:31 PM
Im was planning on going to the fishercats game so i could see jacoby play with the sea dogs, looks like im to late

elsid13
05-09-2007, 06:46 PM
Im was planning on going to the fishercats game so i could see jacoby play with the sea dogs, looks like im to late

Yep, but there is that young righty that supposed to be good too. Hopefully you see him pitch.

OrangeShadow
05-09-2007, 06:53 PM
you talking about buchholz? the kid is nasty,averaging 7ks a start right now with a sub 2 era

elsid13
05-09-2007, 07:00 PM
you talking about buchholz? the kid is nasty,averaging 7ks a start right now with a sub 2 era

I think so, the kid name escape me right now. It been awhile since I attempted to long onto SOS board and learn about the kids in the minors.

TheChamp24
05-09-2007, 07:13 PM
Man, Hirsh was awful today IMO, he could've easily given up 7 runs or so. He was off on his control ALL game long, although a couple pitches probably should've been called strikes. Walked 6 though in 4+ innings of work though, bullpen sure as hell didn't help. I will continue to say that the Rockies bullpen is the worst in the major leauges with Corpas and Fuentes the only guys worth a damn. The others I think would be lucky to see a lot of roles. It pains me to see all these other guys in opponents bullpens tear the Rockies hitters apart.
Also, it still pains me to see so many wasted opportunities. Steve Finley is playing HORRIBLE. It was a tough break losing Taveras, he was playing well when he got hurt. Without him, the Rockies lack quality production from so many spots in the lineup. #1, #5, #6, #7, #8 spots all are suffering. Bench players aren't doing a damn thing either when was the last time Baker had a good at bat? Baker, Mabry, Carroll, Ianetta and Finley are all hitting at .200 or below. That is so pathetic. argh.

SportinOne
05-10-2007, 01:46 AM
The Pirates may surprise you yet...I'll still give them a shot, not solely because I'm a Pirates fan but because I'm not impressed by anyone in the NL Central period.

What else can you base this assumption on?

And how can you not be impressed by the Brewers this year?

As a matter of fact, the only team that really poses a threat to Milwaukee this year is Chicago and that is ONLY because of their lineup. I full expect Rich Hill to come back down to Earth and for the rest of their staff to fall apart at some point.

Also, i will say that i was a little embarrassed by what Prince did. I'm all about pitching inside and even sometimes plunking someone. Maybe not so high up so that it almost hits the guy in the face, but it's a part of the game. I was glad that he didn't charge the mound, initially, but what he did the next day was not necessary. He hit 2, almost 3 homeruns, and scored the go-ahead run, nothing more was needed. If he wanted to show emotion or celebration he should have directed it towards his fans and his own team instead of dropping f-bombs in the pitchers face.

I guess the thing that really bothers me about what he did was that it was just Pittsburgh. If it had been against the Mets or someone real good then heck yeah, give 'em hell.

Drek
05-10-2007, 02:29 AM
Drek

Have you had a chance to see Ellsbury play for the Sea Dogs? I understand that they just promoted him to the PAWSOX and that he one the top prospects in the system.

Yep. Ellsbury is easily the top prospect in the Sox farm, I'd dare say the best positional prospect I've ever seen play in Portland. Guy is that good. He hits for average, has a great eye, has elite speed, and will take the world by storm with his center field defense. If he stays healthy he's going to be a great one.

Super underrated by the national media. I don't know if there is a CF prospect I'd rather have over him at this point.

Clay Buchholz is a good one too though. He's got ace stuff. His fastball normally sits around 93-94 but he's ramped it up to 97 before and he's got a killer curve. Real clutch performer too.

Mike Bowden is another great prospect in the Sox' system. He's only 20 and doing great in the Cal league. He's obviously behind Lester and Buchholz, but he's got some great upside too.

The new management has really turned the farm around in a short time frame, especially the pitching. Along with having top talents like Papelbon, Lester, and Buchholz the farm now has some pretty solid back of the rotation type prospects in Kason Gabbard (25 year old lefty, working on his second season in Pawtucket), David Pauley (23 year old righty, also in AAA after getting 50 innings there last year), Abe Alvarez (24 year old lefty junk baller, has struggled since hitting AAA but got there at only 22), and Charlie Zink (27 year old knuckleballer who posted a 4.03 ERA in AAA last year but is down to AA to make room for all the MLB 'tweeners or rehabs like Lester and Hernandez). Add some good lower level prospects in Masterson, Johnson, and Bard and we're looking real good over the next half decade for starting pitching depth.

The future of the bullpen isn't bad either. Cox is having some struggles early this season but he's a sure fire major leaguer, at least as a middle relief guy. Add him to the already talented group of Delcarmen, Hansen, Breslow, Lopez, and Edgar Martinez and its a solid young group. I think Hansen will surprise a lot of people in a year or two when he gets his mechanics straightened out and Delcarmen is a much better pitcher than he looked like last season (horrible BABIP). Breslow is solid, Lopez is a good LOOGY to have around, and E-Mart throws wicked heat. He's moved up through the system quickly since changing over from C so even though he's 25 there's still a lot of potential there.

I like where the farm is headed. We just need more positional players worth a damn. Lars Anderson and Jason Place are interesting high upside guys, Moss and Murphy should be solid bench guys at worst, but we only have one standout positional prospect in Ellsbury and the MI talent isn't looking real good without Pedroia. Lowrie and Lara are taking a long time to develop. There also isn't any power prospect to get excited about. Luis Soto is the one hope but he hasn't done anything to date worth giving a damn about.

If you want a good site for the Red Sox farm I'd recommend www.soxprospects.com, keeps a running list of top prospects, links to their stat lines on MiLB.com, and even links to interviews with the players. Great source.

I expect management to go into the upcoming draft with cash to burn (supposedly thats where the Clemens contract offer will be focused now) to bring in those "unsignables" other teams pass on (like Lars Anderson last year). I think we'll hit positional prospects hard and don't be surprised if there's a good number of high schoolers again this year. They'll also probably open up the coffers further for some top latin american prospects, as always.

Nothing I love more than real financial commitment to the development system. I'm just bummed that I moved from Maine to Illinois this past fall. No more weekends at Hadlock for me. :(

OrangeShadow
05-10-2007, 06:44 AM
Yeah ellisbury looks like the next damon. Then theres the kid from carolina they drafted, daniel bard. He throws up around 98 but hes kind of raw. I cant wait until he learns to use his other pitches and just develops.

Hogan11
05-10-2007, 05:35 PM
My Boys take two out of three from the Cubs yet again.....a couple of blasts from J. Bay to boot. Hey, if the Buccos could play the Cubs & Astros all the time, they'd be like the Brewers now.

Taco John
05-10-2007, 06:40 PM
Kelvim freaking Escobar baby!

9 innings of shutout pitching! He just single-handedly pulled my team out of the fire!

Clockwork Orange
05-11-2007, 07:02 PM
Bad news for Blue Jays fans and roto owners, Roy Halladay is expected to be out 4-6 weeks due to apendicitis.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2867991

Bronco LB 59
05-11-2007, 07:35 PM
Yeah ellisbury looks like the next damon. Then theres the kid from carolina they drafted, daniel bard. He throws up around 98 but hes kind of raw. I cant wait until he learns to use his other pitches and just develops.

The downside of Ellsbury is a Jeremy Reed career.

Bard is extremely raw. I saw him in person a couple weeks back at Visalia and he was easily the least dominant pitcher I've ever seen who throws in the mid-to-high 90s. His slider is actually not a bad pitch, but he doesn't have much consistency with it.

OrangeShadow
05-11-2007, 07:42 PM
Yeah, he will take time but hes only a year removed from college

Drek
05-11-2007, 09:00 PM
Bad news for Blue Jays fans and roto owners, Roy Halladay is expected to be out 4-6 weeks due to apendicitis.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2867991

Thats funny, I heard he needed an operation, I figured it was to remove the big ol' boot the Sox planted up his ass.

-Slap-
05-11-2007, 09:38 PM
Bad news for Blue Jays fans and roto owners, Roy Halladay is expected to be out 4-6 weeks due to apendicitis.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2867991

That explains giving up 9 and 7 earned runs in his last two outings. The dumb bastard was probably hurting and not telling anybody. I'm telling you, CO, the gamers can hurt you more than the jakes.

WABronco
05-11-2007, 10:22 PM
The downside of Ellsbury is a Jeremy Reed career.

Bard is extremely raw. I saw him in person a couple weeks back at Visalia and he was easily the least dominant pitcher I've ever seen who throws in the mid-to-high 90s. His slider is actually not a bad pitch, but he doesn't have much consistency with it.

They need to trade Reed for something...anything. There were rumors that a Reed-Matt Lindstrom deal was in the makings in ST, and that would've been just excellent.

All he's doing now is pouting in AAA. If Baylor and Co. wouldn't have F'ed up his swing, he'd probably be a starting OF'er right now.

Clockwork Orange
05-11-2007, 10:26 PM
That explains giving up 9 and 7 earned runs in his last two outings. The dumb bastard was probably hurting and not telling anybody. I'm telling you, CO, the gamers can hurt you more than the jakes.

I hear ya'. It's a trait to admire in real life, but to curse about in roto.

Clockwork Orange
05-12-2007, 12:11 AM
Jake Peavy becomes the first Padres pitcher to ever throw 4 straight games with 10 or more strikeouts in his 7 shutout inning performance tonight.

Trading for that guy did not suck. :)

Pendejo
05-12-2007, 12:19 AM
Jake Peavy becomes the first Padres pitcher to ever throw 4 straight games with 10 or more strikeouts in his 7 shutout inning performance tonight.

Trading for that guy did not suck. :)

Yeah...he's dialed in this year. I read an article on some website re: Pitchers you'd pay money to see, and Peavy didn't make the cut. He had one of both of era and strikeout titles by the time he was 24. He missed out on a second strikeout title last year (in a down year) by a single K. Peavy is one of the top 5 pitchers in all of baseball. It's simple as that. His won loss record isn't great because the Madres are streaky offensively, and flat out bad when he's on the mound. Again he's had a 16 strikeout game in each of the past two years, but didn't win either of them.

He doesn't get the run he deserves because he pitches in San Diego.

He's 25.

(Edit: He's also hitting .263)

Clockwork Orange
05-12-2007, 12:34 AM
Just a public service announcement to the actual contending teams.

Todd Helton is currently batting .397 with an OBP of .513 and a tidy 1.092 OPS. He's on pace to hit about 20 HR's, drive in around 120 runs and score about 90, all while playing gold glove caliber defense at 1B.

Someone please come rescue him. The sooner the better.

That is all.

MechanicalBull
05-12-2007, 08:50 AM
It's good to see that Delgado and Wright are finally starting to hit. You knew Delgado would come around sooner or later but who knows about Wright since he hasn't really done much since the all-star break last year.

The Mets have some tough series these next 2 weeks: vs Mil, Cubs, Yanks at home and then at ATL.

TheChamp24
05-12-2007, 09:02 AM
Just a public service announcement to the actual contending teams.

Todd Helton is currently batting .397 with an OBP of .513 and a tidy 1.092 OPS. He's on pace to hit about 20 HR's, drive in around 120 runs and score about 90, all while playing gold glove caliber defense at 1B.

Someone please come rescue him. The sooner the better.

That is all.

Helton is really stroking it. I wonder, if he were to get traded to Boston, where would he be batting? 2nd? 3rd? 5? He would totally make that offense incredible IMO. I bet his walks would go down if he hit 2nd or 3rd, but man, he would prove to be so helpful for them.
I'd very much miss him in Colorado though. I love watching him play.

elsid13
05-12-2007, 11:29 AM
Helton is really stroking it. I wonder, if he were to get traded to Boston, where would he be batting? 2nd? 3rd? 5? He would totally make that offense incredible IMO. I bet his walks would go down if he hit 2nd or 3rd, but man, he would prove to be so helpful for them.
I'd very much miss him in Colorado though. I love watching him play.

Mostly likely he would be batting 5th or 6th in Boston. Protecting either Drew or Manny. Though right now Lowell is producing at All Star level and I hate to give up any young arms for Helton.

-Slap-
05-12-2007, 11:45 AM
I hope he goes anywhere except Boston or New York. Anaheim could sure use a run producing first baseman.

Clockwork Orange
05-12-2007, 02:47 PM
I hope he goes anywhere except Boston or New York. Anaheim could sure use a run producing first baseman.

Anaheim would be my ideal spot for him, too. They could bat him one spot ahead of or behind Vlad, either way it'd be a nice situation.

After watching the Cardinals anemic offense this season, I'm really wishing they'd get on the phone with Dan O'Dowd and make a pitch for Matt Holliday. It would cost, but the Rockies would likely be willing to move him. He's going to get a hefty raise in arbitration this offseason, a raise that I'm sure the Monforts would prefer not to pay. Not to mention that Holliday seems to love hitting at Busch Stadium.

Hogan11
05-12-2007, 09:35 PM
Tony Armas Jr. sucks balls.

That is all.

Drek
05-12-2007, 10:52 PM
Mostly likely he would be batting 5th or 6th in Boston. Protecting either Drew or Manny. Though right now Lowell is producing at All Star level and I hate to give up any young arms for Helton.

The deal discussed this winter was Lowell and Tavarez for Helton. The deal fell apart because the Sox wanted the Rox to eat half the remaining money, but the Rox wanted to include Lowell's $9M as part of that while the Sox didn't. The Rockies supposedly were pushing for Hansen or Delcarmen to make them eat the rest but the Sox refused.

I'd like to see them discuss it again in a month or two when Lowell's typical hot start comes to an end.

The Rockies still have interest in Tavarez, personally I'd like to see them swing a deal involving Tavarez and a middling prospect for Joe Koshansky. He'd make a good 1B/DH type for the '08 roster and since Tavarez could just as easily be replaced with Gabbard and upgraded with a healthy lester in a few months it'd have little impact on the '07 roster. An '08 corners crew of Youks at 3B, Koshansky at 1B, and a right handed 1B or 3B to rotate with them would be awesome.

MechanicalBull
05-12-2007, 10:52 PM
Can today please be the final nail in the coffin for Mike Pelfry? The guy is 0-5 with a 6.53 era. Just pull the plug on him already and get someone else if not then you can chaulk up the Mets for a loss every 5th game.

TheChamp24
05-12-2007, 11:01 PM
Can today please be the final nail in the coffin for Mike Pelfry? The guy is 0-5 with a 6.53 era. Just pull the plug on him already and get someone else if not then you can chaulk up the Mets for a loss every 5th game.

I remember the day he pitched against the Rockies. He got crushed, I mean John freakin Mabry crushed a 3 run homerun against him. He needs sent back down.

And how about dem Rockies today? Francis pitched a gem and Holliday crushed 2 out, Baker added another. I see just about 90% of the pitches to Helton are away, kinda funny.
And also, I know some Sox fans and when there were talks they didn't want to give up anything for Helton other than Lowell and Tavarez. IMO, that deal is a JOKE. Give up a pitching prospect or no deal IMO. I don't know why the Rocks were so interested in Tavarez anyways...

Clockwork Orange
05-12-2007, 11:06 PM
I don't know why the Rocks were so interested in Tavarez anyways...

Dan O'Dowd is a tool, that's why. Tavarez is a bum.

Go west, Todd Helton.

MechanicalBull
05-12-2007, 11:15 PM
Dan O'Dowd is a tool, that's why. Tavarez is a bum.

Go west, Todd Helton.

Vlad could use a great bat like Helton in the lineup. The guy is great to begin with and just imagine how'd he do if they added Helton.

I've never been a Rockie fan but I've always liked Helton and his talents are being wasted in Co. and it would be good to see him get a ring or at least play some meaninful games in Sep and Oct.

Drek
05-12-2007, 11:21 PM
Dan O'Dowd is a tool, that's why. Tavarez is a bum.

Go west, Todd Helton.

Tavarez isn't that bad. He's got good peripherals, is a smart pitcher, and he can start or relieve. I bet he'd do well in the NL West, even pitching home games in Coors.

Lowell and Tavarez for Helton? Totally not fair for the Rockies, but if they move Helton it'll be a contract dumper, don't expect much more. They might get one good prospect back if they're taking another bad contract back in return because no matter how good Helton plays his contract is one of the worst in baseball. Paid too much for too long.

Best hope for the Rockies is that Anaheim hangs a few games back in the AL West race and the Yankees are a few games back on the Red Sox at the deadline. I could see either team going after him. Anaheim just needs guys period, and the Yankees would probably view replacing Mientkevitz (sp?) with Helton as the second best move they could do after getting the legit starter that won't be available this deadline.

The Sox have Lowell and Youks, they won't pony up real value for Helton and his monster deal any time soon.

Clockwork Orange
05-12-2007, 11:29 PM
Tavarez isn't that bad. He's got good peripherals, is a smart pitcher, and he can start or relieve. I bet he'd do well in the NL West, even pitching home games in Coors.

Lowell and Tavarez for Helton? Totally not fair for the Rockies, but if they move Helton it'll be a contract dumper, don't expect much more. They might get one good prospect back if they're taking another bad contract back in return because no matter how good Helton plays his contract is one of the worst in baseball. Paid too much for too long.

Best hope for the Rockies is that Anaheim hangs a few games back in the AL West race and the Yankees are a few games back on the Red Sox at the deadline. I could see either team going after him. Anaheim just needs guys period, and the Yankees would probably view replacing Mientkevitz (sp?) with Helton as the second best move they could do after getting the legit starter that won't be available this deadline.

The Sox have Lowell and Youks, they won't pony up real value for Helton and his monster deal any time soon.

Been there, done that with Tavarez once before. You can keep him.

The thing is, no matter how much I want Helton to go to a contender, the Rockies are not under any pressure to deal him. He's very popular here, so while people want him to get a chance to win, no one is pushing him out the door. He isn't asking for a trade, so there's no sense of urgency there. The Rockies don't have to take a bad deal to unload him simply because aren't that hard up to move him. He seems to be the one guy they're alright with paying. All that gives them the luxury of waiting for a deal they and Helton are happy with, if they make a deal at all.

TheChamp24
05-13-2007, 02:13 AM
Tavarez isn't that bad. He's got good peripherals, is a smart pitcher, and he can start or relieve. I bet he'd do well in the NL West, even pitching home games in Coors.

Lowell and Tavarez for Helton? Totally not fair for the Rockies, but if they move Helton it'll be a contract dumper, don't expect much more. They might get one good prospect back if they're taking another bad contract back in return because no matter how good Helton plays his contract is one of the worst in baseball. Paid too much for too long.

Best hope for the Rockies is that Anaheim hangs a few games back in the AL West race and the Yankees are a few games back on the Red Sox at the deadline. I could see either team going after him. Anaheim just needs guys period, and the Yankees would probably view replacing Mientkevitz (sp?) with Helton as the second best move they could do after getting the legit starter that won't be available this deadline.

The Sox have Lowell and Youks, they won't pony up real value for Helton and his monster deal any time soon.

Like Clockwork stated, Rockies alread have had Tavarez and its a joke to think that he would be what it takes to get a deal done to get Helton. He is an average at best pitcher, plain and simple.

And I do not know why you wouldn't want the Sox to deal for Helton. I think getting Helton instantly makes the Red Sox World Series Championship winners if they continue to stay healthy. Helton would get so many hits off that green monster. And since when did the Red Sox care about salaries?
Unless an eye popping trade offer comes in that includes a top prospect, I don't want Helton moved. The guy was hitting .397 entering yesterdays game for crying out loud. Put him #3 in the lineup and watch the runs scored go up for Boston. The guy is on pace for 20 homeruns, 120 RBI's, 225 hits, 90 runs scored and 47 doubles playing for the Rockies, and this is a guy who gets better as the season goes along. The last time he hit this high in a season in May? 2000 when he ended up hitting .372, 42 homeruns, 147 RBI's.

Drek
05-13-2007, 04:36 AM
Been there, done that with Tavarez once before. You can keep him.

The thing is, no matter how much I want Helton to go to a contender, the Rockies are not under any pressure to deal him. He's very popular here, so while people want him to get a chance to win, no one is pushing him out the door. He isn't asking for a trade, so there's no sense of urgency there. The Rockies don't have to take a bad deal to unload him simply because aren't that hard up to move him. He seems to be the one guy they're alright with paying. All that gives them the luxury of waiting for a deal they and Helton are happy with, if they make a deal at all.

Exactly, and thats why I don't think he'll go anywhere, ever, as his no-trade is now fully in effect. The Rockies can't wait on a deal "they and Helton are happy with" if you consider a deal involving top prospects something they can be happy with because that won't happen without another GM letting himself get raped. He's a mid-30's 1B who makes more money than all but a handful of other players and has question marks like injury history and Coors for a home field.

The fact is, they were ready to pull the trigger this winter if the Sox would've sent Hansen and Delcarmen along with Tavarez and Lowell. That was reportedly going to involve them eating over $40M of his salary. Neither Hansen or Delcarmen was looking like a stud prospect this off-season by a long stretch.

Like Clockwork stated, Rockies alread have had Tavarez and its a joke to think that he would be what it takes to get a deal done to get Helton. He is an average at best pitcher, plain and simple.

And I do not know why you wouldn't want the Sox to deal for Helton. I think getting Helton instantly makes the Red Sox World Series Championship winners if they continue to stay healthy. Helton would get so many hits off that green monster. And since when did the Red Sox care about salaries?
Unless an eye popping trade offer comes in that includes a top prospect, I don't want Helton moved. The guy was hitting .397 entering yesterdays game for crying out loud. Put him #3 in the lineup and watch the runs scored go up for Boston. The guy is on pace for 20 homeruns, 120 RBI's, 225 hits, 90 runs scored and 47 doubles playing for the Rockies, and this is a guy who gets better as the season goes along. The last time he hit this high in a season in May? 2000 when he ended up hitting .372, 42 homeruns, 147 RBI's.

Tavarez wouldn't be the center piece, he'd be ancillary. I'd say the over $40M saved over the next few years would be the "center piece" if you're seeking to classify something as such.

And I'd love to see the Red Sox add him, but not at the cost of taking on his whole salary or giving a legitimate prospect, a la Bucholz, Bowden, Ellsbury, etc. in return. Hell, I'm quite happy the Sox refused Hansen and Delcarmen as they're by far our two best high level relievers. The gap between Helton to Lowell, when long term financial commitment is factored in, isn't worth five cost controlled years each from two guys who should be solid MLB relievers.

Also, Helton couldn't bat 3rd, 4th or 5th in Boston. He'd bat 2 or 6. Nothing will break up the lefty/righty/lefty trio of Ortiz/Manny/Drew.

Personally I don't think Helton will ever get moved because the Rockies management expects a big prospect package to come rolling in for him. That won't happen. There won't be a Mike Jacobs/Yusemeiro Petit package coming for him a la Delgado. He's too old and paid too much. If they wanted that they should've traded him in 2003 or 2004.

I'd think Rockies fans would actually have some interest in getting Tavarez back too. 120 IP with a 4.43 ERA from a spot starter/bullpen guy is damn valuable, thats what he did in his last stint there. Its not worth Helton, but he's got value for a team constantly searching for guys who can find some success in Coors. His last three seasons in the NL saw him post ERAs of 3.66, 2.38, and 3.43 as well.

The best move Rockies management could do is suck it up and accept the fact that they're paying Helton the entire boneheaded contract they gave him. Embrace it and get creative on how to keep as many of Hawpe, Holliday, and Atkins as possible. Then get looking to win ball games. Thats why I suggested Tavarez plus a mid-level prospect for Koshansky. He's got no future with the Rockies if Helton isn't traded, and he's not exactly considered a stud prospect to start with.

They should look to make a move for a Tavarez type, spot starter slash bullpen arm who can keep the bullpen from getting hammered if one of the young kids has a bad day or fill in if one of them needs a day off. If the move can include a fist full of cash as well so much the better because they really need to reinvest into the draft. They have solid farm depth, but a big year bolstered by some mid to late round collegians who otherwise would've gone back to school if not for a nice contract would be just the ticket to see them competing before Helton's days are over while also setting them up financially to afford nice contracts to the younger talent they already have.

Clockwork Orange
05-13-2007, 05:13 AM
Exactly, and thats why I don't think he'll go anywhere, ever, as his no-trade is now fully in effect. The Rockies can't wait on a deal "they and Helton are happy with" if you consider a deal involving top prospects something they can be happy with because that won't happen without another GM letting himself get raped. He's a mid-30's 1B who makes more money than all but a handful of other players and has question marks like injury history and Coors for a home field.

The fact is, they were ready to pull the trigger this winter if the Sox would've sent Hansen and Delcarmen along with Tavarez and Lowell. That was reportedly going to involve them eating over $40M of his salary. Neither Hansen or Delcarmen was looking like a stud prospect this off-season by a long stretch.

Actually, they can wait as long as they like, contrary to your belief. They don't have to trade Todd Helton. For as much money as he's making, he's the guy who's still putting asses in the seats at Coors Field. The Monforts catch enough hell in this town without pissing away the face of their franchise for spare parts. They run the Rockies like a business, which I detest them for, but they're not dumb enough to dump Helton without getting at least some return that they can sell to the paying customers that they've got left. They're paying him a ton, but they're still turning a profit, which justifies keeping him here even at his current salary in their minds.

Tavarez wouldn't be the center piece, he'd be ancillary. I'd say the over $40M saved over the next few years would be the "center piece" if you're seeking to classify something as such.

You're assuming that the sole motivation for moving Helton is a straight salary dump and that's simply not the case. I think they'd move him if they get a deal they like, but there's no desperation to get him off the books. It's not as if they're looking to clear his salary so that they can sign some of their other players. Jason Jennings was jettisoned this offseason. Charlie Monfort has already publicly admitted that they won't be paying market value for Matt Holliday. Garrett Atkins can expect the same. It's all business to them, but as I mentioned earlier, they seem to regard Helton as a worthy expense.

And I'd love to see the Red Sox add him, but not at the cost of taking on his whole salary or giving a legitimate prospect, a la Bucholz, Bowden, Ellsbury, etc. in return. Hell, I'm quite happy the Sox refused Hansen and Delcarmen as they're by far our two best high level relievers. The gap between Helton to Lowell, when long term financial commitment is factored in, isn't worth five cost controlled years each from two guys who should be solid MLB relievers.

We're in agreement here, I'm glad that the deal didn't go down, too.

Also, Helton couldn't bat 3rd, 4th or 5th in Boston. He'd bat 2 or 6. Nothing will break up the lefty/righty/lefty trio of Ortiz/Manny/Drew.

The notion that Helton couldn't displace JD Drew is ridiculous, but believe what you will.

Personally I don't think Helton will ever get moved because the Rockies management expects a big prospect package to come rolling in for him. That won't happen. There won't be a Mike Jacobs/Yusemeiro Petit package coming for him a la Delgado. He's too old and paid too much. If they wanted that they should've traded him in 2003 or 2004.

I don't think he'll move either, but not because the Rockies will try to hold out for too much, but rather because I don't believe Helton wants to go anywhere.

Remember, all this Helton trade talk was started by me due to my selfish desire to see Helton have a shot at a ring. There are no rumors or even whispers of anything happening with Helton right now and there haven't been any for months.

I'd think Rockies fans would actually have some interest in getting Tavarez back too. 120 IP with a 4.43 ERA from a spot starter/bullpen guy is damn valuable, thats what he did in his last stint there. Its not worth Helton, but he's got value for a team constantly searching for guys who can find some success in Coors. His last three seasons in the NL saw him post ERAs of 3.66, 2.38, and 3.43 as well.

Negative. I don't know of anyone out here who has even the slightest interest in a second tour of duty for Tavarez.

The best move Rockies management could do is suck it up and accept the fact that they're paying Helton the entire boneheaded contract they gave him. Embrace it and get creative on how to keep as many of Hawpe, Holliday, and Atkins as possible. Then get looking to win ball games. Thats why I suggested Tavarez plus a mid-level prospect for Koshansky. He's got no future with the Rockies if Helton isn't traded, and he's not exactly considered a stud prospect to start with.

Accept it? You act as if they're ready to jump off a bridge over Helton's contract or something. Again, they aren't eager to trade him. It's a possibility they've explored, but not something they've been tirelessly pursuing.

Also, they're not interested in winning. If there's one thing they've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, it's that.

They should look to make a move for a Tavarez type, spot starter slash bullpen arm who can keep the bullpen from getting hammered if one of the young kids has a bad day or fill in if one of them needs a day off. If the move can include a fist full of cash as well so much the better because they really need to reinvest into the draft. They have solid farm depth, but a big year bolstered by some mid to late round collegians who otherwise would've gone back to school if not for a nice contract would be just the ticket to see them competing before Helton's days are over while also setting them up financially to afford nice contracts to the younger talent they already have.

Again, you make the mistake of believing that this ownership would look to reinvest anything into the team, through the draft or otherwise. This is the organization that took Greg Reynolds with the 2nd overall pick last year over Andrew Miller, Evan Longoria and Tim Lincecum because Reynolds was going to be the easiest to sign.

They have no interest in competing. It's a sad reality, but it's reality.

TheChamp24
05-13-2007, 07:16 AM
The Rockies will not just trade Helton for the sake of trading him to get rid of his salary, which is why they haven't traded him yet.
Also, to say the Rockies should be happy to get Tavarez is absurd. Like I said, he's average-above average pitcher, he isn't worth trading Todd Helton for.
And also, the notation that Helton would hit after JD Drew is also absurd. I would think maybe 2nd would be best in that lineup though, because he is very good at getting on base and hitting ahead of Ortiz will be good. But hitting 6th, not gonna happen. 2nd or 5th, if anything lower and its an insult IMO.

elsid13
05-13-2007, 10:12 AM
you talking about buchholz? the kid is nasty,averaging 7ks a start right now with a sub 2 era

Hopefully you got to see him, because it looks like he on his way to be promoted:

"Striking image
Clay Buchholz's eight consecutive strikeouts Friday night in Portland broke a Sea Dogs record of six, shared by Josh Beckett, A.J. Burnett, Jon Lester (twice), and Kason Gabbard. Beckett and Burnett did it when the Sea Dogs were a Marlins affiliate.

More significantly for Buchholz, the pitchers he surpassed all have made it to the big leagues. Beckett did it in his Double A debut. John W. Henry, who then owned the Marlins, flew up for the occasion. Beckett struck out the first two batters, hit the next one, then fanned the next six.

Buchholz, who finished with a career-high 11 strikeouts in 6 2/3 innings but had no decision in a game Portland ultimately lost, 8-5, to Binghamton, has been as dominant pitching for Portland as Jacoby Ellsbury was hitting, and Ellsbury was promoted to Pawtucket nine days ago.

Will Buchholz soon follow? The Sox aren't saying, but Buchholz has struck out 46 while walking just 4 in 34 innings, spectacular numbers.

In his six starts, his earned run average is 1.85, and move the decimal point one place to the left, and you have opponents' batting average (.185) against the 22-year-old righthander from Nederland, Texas.

Buchholz, who was a first-round sandwich pick in the 2005 draft, threw 96 pitches Friday night, 62 for strikes."

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/05/13/hes_a_production_assistant/?page=2

Drek
05-13-2007, 04:50 PM
The notion that Helton couldn't displace JD Drew is ridiculous, but believe what you will. The notion that you'd screw with what could be the best 2-5 or 3-6 lefty/righty/lefty/righty combo in baseball history is what I'd call ridiculous. Drew is here to put a 5 tool lefty behind Manny to protect him. If somehow Helton was on the Sox I'd expect him to bat #2, Lugo leads off, and Youks takes the 6 hole followed by Lowell, 'Tek, then Pedroia.

Remember, all this Helton trade talk was started by me due to my selfish desire to see Helton have a shot at a ring. There are no rumors or even whispers of anything happening with Helton right now and there haven't been any for months.By months you mean a little over three. How many other all-stars have been shopped since January? Not too many.


Negative. I don't know of anyone out here who has even the slightest interest in a second tour of duty for Tavarez.

Yeah, why would a mediocre team want a low cost, league average innings eater? Other than you know, to win games.


Again, you make the mistake of believing that this ownership would look to reinvest anything into the team, through the draft or otherwise. This is the organization that took Greg Reynolds with the 2nd overall pick last year over Andrew Miller, Evan Longoria and Tim Lincecum because Reynolds was going to be the easiest to sign.

They have no interest in competing. It's a sad reality, but it's reality.
No, I know they have no interest in winning. I just volunteered a fraction of a plan they could implement if they did give a damn.

Saying the team has no interst in salary dumping Helton though? Lets consider the talks that the Monforts took public last year. Tavarez, Lowell, and two relief prospects was enough to not only get Helton, but about $40M of his salary along with it. Thats not including the $9M owed Lowell and the $3.5 Tavarez is getting.

So yeah, eating over $50M to move Helton isn't a salary dump. I mean, who wouldn't want to do that in order to turn a potential HOF 1B and face of your franchise into a solid 3B (same position as one of your best young talents), a NL league average RP/SP, and two prospects with promising stuff but a ticking clock (both have a year of MLB service time already), control issues, and a propensity for the long ball.

No, thats not a cap dump at all.

elsid13
05-13-2007, 05:30 PM
Side note Beckett had to leave today game with a blister. Sox's play like ass most of the game but rally to score 6 in the bottom of the 9th to win.

The O's Brian Roberts really is very good Baseball player that no one talke about. He might be the best 2nd baseman in the AL

Killericon
05-13-2007, 06:01 PM
Do it, Nolan, do it! (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/05/13/bc.bbo.ryan.apse.ap/index.html)

Also, an Astros scout said that Clemens "Isn't the same pitcher" (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/3050).

MechanicalBull
05-13-2007, 07:09 PM
Tough day for you Rockies fans but this may make your day a little bit better

The Marlins and Rockies pulled off a swap of struggling pitchers on Sunday, with Florida sending former closer Jorge Julio to Colorado for right-hander Byung-Hyun Kim.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070513&content_id=1962865&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Bronco LB 59
05-13-2007, 07:53 PM
Tough day for you Rockies fans but this may make your day a little bit better

The Marlins and Rockies pulled off a swap of struggling pitchers on Sunday, with Florida sending former closer Jorge Julio to Colorado for right-hander Byung-Hyun Kim.



http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070513&content_id=1962865&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

As bad as Kim is, Julio is a bum. It's amazing how many closing opportunties he's received considering how horrid he is. Armando Benitez gets a lot of flak for being a fat POS, but he's three times the pitcher Julio is.

MechanicalBull
05-13-2007, 08:24 PM
As bad as Kim is, Julio is a bum. It's amazing how many closing opportunties he's received considering how horrid he is. Armando Benitez gets a lot of flak for being a fat POS, but he's three times the pitcher Julio is.

I agree that they are both bad but personally I think I'd rather have Julio than Kim. Besides one good year in Arizona Kim has been horrible while Julio seems to be a little bit better.

Benitez is good but once his cage gets rattled he is done and will blow a game for you. As a Met fan it was so bad to come and watch him blow save after save against ATL or when the pressure was on.

Hogan11
05-13-2007, 08:25 PM
Bucco bats finally came alive today, for a change, and kept the sweep from happening. Hopefully Batista is not seriously injured.

OrangeShadow
05-13-2007, 08:55 PM
beckett said he should make his next start so...

Clockwork Orange
05-13-2007, 09:40 PM
The notion that you'd screw with what could be the best 2-5 or 3-6 lefty/righty/lefty/righty combo in baseball history is what I'd call ridiculous. Drew is here to put a 5 tool lefty behind Manny to protect him. If somehow Helton was on the Sox I'd expect him to bat #2, Lugo leads off, and Youks takes the 6 hole followed by Lowell, 'Tek, then Pedroia.

By months you mean a little over three. How many other all-stars have been shopped since January? Not too many.


Yeah, why would a mediocre team want a low cost, league average innings eater? Other than you know, to win games.


No, I know they have no interest in winning. I just volunteered a fraction of a plan they could implement if they did give a damn.

Saying the team has no interst in salary dumping Helton though? Lets consider the talks that the Monforts took public last year. Tavarez, Lowell, and two relief prospects was enough to not only get Helton, but about $40M of his salary along with it. Thats not including the $9M owed Lowell and the $3.5 Tavarez is getting.

So yeah, eating over $50M to move Helton isn't a salary dump. I mean, who wouldn't want to do that in order to turn a potential HOF 1B and face of your franchise into a solid 3B (same position as one of your best young talents), a NL league average RP/SP, and two prospects with promising stuff but a ticking clock (both have a year of MLB service time already), control issues, and a propensity for the long ball.

No, thats not a cap dump at all.

Tell you what, let's just agree to disagree (especially on that part about "could be the best lefty/righty/lefty combo in baseball history" :laugh:.) because we're not going to see eye on a lot of points here.

The proposed deal from the offseason is (thankfully) dead, so hashing it over and over isn't making it any more attractive for either side.

Again I'll say, go west Todd Helton. Though I'm doubtful he goes anywhere at all.

Clockwork Orange
05-13-2007, 09:44 PM
As bad as Kim is, Julio is a bum. It's amazing how many closing opportunties he's received considering how horrid he is. Armando Benitez gets a lot of flak for being a fat POS, but he's three times the pitcher Julio is.

Teriffic, we're right back where we were a year ago. Instead of Mesa & King it's Julio & Hawkins.

Julio is a fuggin' bum. He was a complete trainwreck for the Marlins all season and it's not going to get any better here.

Another great Dan O'Dowd move. ::)

MechanicalBull
05-13-2007, 10:04 PM
Chipper Jones is upset about having to play the top teams in the AL every year during interleague games. I see his reasoning but he also needs to realize that the better teams are going to play against the better teams just like in the NFL. The Braves are a very good team this year and he shouldn't be afraid of some competition.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AlReXHIdtYYDS.Tqgv_H2QIRvLYF?slug=ap-braves-cjones-interleague&prov=ap&type=lgns



With interleague games resuming next weekend, the Braves third baseman on Sunday sharply criticized the current format that requires the Braves to meet the Red Sox and the Mets to oppose the Yankees six times each, while other NL East teams play less-rugged schedules.
"I don't think there's any question it's not fair, but I don't think major league baseball is concerned with fair," Jones said before Atlanta's 13-2 loss in Pittsburgh. "If you play the top teams in the American League and everybody else doesn't, it's pretty unfair." While the Braves oppose the Red Sox (6 games), Tigers (3), Twins (3) and Indians (3), and the Mets face the Yankees (6), Tigers (3), Twins (3) and Athletics (3), the other NL East teams look to have less-demanding schedules. The Phillies, for example, play three games each against the losing-record Blue Jays and Royals, plus three each against the White Sox, Indians and Tigers.

Bronco LB 59
05-13-2007, 10:26 PM
Teriffic, we're right back where we were a year ago. Instead of Mesa & King it's Julio & Hawkins.

Julio is a fuggin' bum. He was a complete trainwreck for the Marlins all season and it's not going to get any better here.

Another great Dan O'Dowd move. ::)

As long as Clint Hurdle keeps Fuentes and Corpas in critical game situations, it's actually a decent trade for Colorado. I think Colorado gets good value in return for Kim, but Julio doesn't need any more opportunties in destructing leads late in the game.

Clockwork Orange
05-13-2007, 10:39 PM
As long as Clint Hurdle keeps Fuentes and Corpas in critical game situations, it's actually a decent trade for Colorado. I think Colorado gets good value in return for Kim, but Julio doesn't need any more opportunties in destructing leads late in the game.

I don't think there was too much value going either way, honestly. Looks more like teams swapping headaches. Kim is an adventure every time he takes the mound and was disgruntled about being taken out of the starting rotation on top of it. Julio was just a mess in Florida.

If either team can get anything positive from this swap, good on them.

TheChamp24
05-13-2007, 11:02 PM
Thank the lord we got rid of Byung Hyun Kim! Maybe next will be Denny Bautista? Dude is fricken horrible. in 1/3 of an inning pitched today, he gave up 7 hits and 6 runs. His ERA is 19.00 something. We need Rodrigo Lopez back because our rotation is suffering pretty bad. Bucholz I don't think is a starting pitcher and should get moved back to the pen when Lopez comes back. Francis, Cook and Hirsh have, for the most part, pitched solid this year while Fogg has been off and on. Lopez pitched solid before he got hurt, so hopefully that continues.

Drek
05-13-2007, 11:42 PM
Tell you what, let's just agree to disagree (especially on that part about "could be the best lefty/righty/lefty combo in baseball history" :laugh:.) because we're not going to see eye on a lot of points here.

Um, I said "lefty/righty/lefty/righty" as in Ortiz/Manny/Drew/Helton or flip Helton and go Helton/Tiz/Manny/Drew. What team has ever aligned a flip flopping lineup that good before? It wouldn't be the best 2-5 or 3-6 of all time, though it'd hold its own, but few lineups can ever arrange alternating batters like that, pretty much never at that skill level.


The Helton deal, whatever, its all a matter of theory at this point.

Clockwork Orange
05-13-2007, 11:47 PM
Um, I said "lefty/righty/lefty/righty" as in Ortiz/Manny/Drew/Helton or flip Helton and go Helton/Tiz/Manny/Drew. What team has ever aligned a flip flopping lineup that good before? It wouldn't be the best 2-5 or 3-6 of all time, though it'd hold its own, but few lineups can ever arrange alternating batters like that, pretty much never at that skill level.

Helton bats lefty, so it wouldn't quite work like that.

TheChamp24
05-14-2007, 12:10 AM
Um, I said "lefty/righty/lefty/righty" as in Ortiz/Manny/Drew/Helton or flip Helton and go Helton/Tiz/Manny/Drew. What team has ever aligned a flip flopping lineup that good before? It wouldn't be the best 2-5 or 3-6 of all time, though it'd hold its own, but few lineups can ever arrange alternating batters like that, pretty much never at that skill level.


The Helton deal, whatever, its all a matter of theory at this point.

You just lost all credability now...
As Mr. Clockwork said, Helton bats lefty.

Breck Bronc
05-14-2007, 01:05 AM
Helton bats lefty, so it wouldn't quite work like that.Ouch. I guess not many people get to see our train wreck of a baseball club and don't know which side Helton's bats from LOL .

Any talk of J.D. Drew being part of the greatest anything in baseball is out of line. Hell, the Yankees put out a better L/R/L/R/L combo than the Sox even if they had Helton. Damon/Jeter/Abreu/Arod/Giambi is their normal top 5 and even with all those great hitters the Yankees are two games below .500.

Bronco LB 59
05-14-2007, 01:55 AM
They need to trade Reed for something...anything. There were rumors that a Reed-Matt Lindstrom deal was in the makings in ST, and that would've been just excellent.

All he's doing now is pouting in AAA. If Baylor and Co. wouldn't have F'ed up his swing, he'd probably be a starting OF'er right now.

Reed is messed up right now.

Have you seen Wladimir Balentin? .319, 8 HR, 27 RBI has been a pleasant suprise so far for a toolsy outfielder who apparently didn't make enough contact to survive.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v437/BroncoLB56/DSC02303.jpg

Pendejo
05-14-2007, 02:06 AM
I don't think there was too much value going either way, honestly. Looks more like teams swapping headaches. Kim is an adventure every time he takes the mound and was disgruntled about being taken out of the starting rotation on top of it. Julio was just a mess in Florida.

If either team can get anything positive from this swap, good on them.

Yeah...it's like Marcus Nash for John Avery redux.

-Slap-
05-14-2007, 02:26 AM
AAAA legend Jack Cust is making the most of his chances in Oakland.

Cust's legend grows with walk-off homer (http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_5889895)

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/8409/indiansathleticsbasebaldn2.jpg

Yes, he's on both my AL Only teams.......:)

Clockwork Orange
05-14-2007, 02:28 AM
AAAA legend Jack Cust is making the most of his chances in Oakland.

Cust's legend grows with walk-off homer (http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_5889895)

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/8409/indiansathleticsbasebaldn2.jpg

Another guy who Dan O'Dowd hung on to for too long and ended up getting a very minimal return for.

Clockwork Orange
05-14-2007, 02:32 AM
Dave Krieger asks the question that Rockies fans have been asking for years.

"Where, exactly, is the organizational accountability for poor performance?" (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/sports_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_83_5535800,00.html)

Hey Dave, if you get an answer to that one, make sure you print it.

Clockwork Orange
05-14-2007, 03:04 AM
A note from Renck's column about the Rockies & Angels possibly discussing a deal not involving Todd Helton.

http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_5883887

The Angels are hunting for a bat and have been linked to Tampa Bay's Carl Crawford. They also have interest in Brad Hawpe and Jeff Baker - comparable value might be pitcher Joe Saunders - and third baseman Garrett Atkins. To even listen, young starter Ervin Santana would have to be involved.

TheChamp24
05-14-2007, 06:22 AM
A note from Renck's column about the Rockies & Angels possibly discussing a deal not involving Todd Helton.

http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_5883887

The Angels are hunting for a bat and have been linked to Tampa Bay's Carl Crawford. They also have interest in Brad Hawpe and Jeff Baker - comparable value might be pitcher Joe Saunders - and third baseman Garrett Atkins. To even listen, young starter Ervin Santana would have to be involved.

Atkins hasn't hit for squat this year yet. Theres still a lot of baseball to be played, but he needs to show some improvement soon IMO. I don't know if I wouldn't mind trading Atkins and starting Baker at 3rd although Baker is raw, he swings at a lot of junk.
I don't know about Santana though, he seems iffy. If he has an ERA over 4 for the career and 5 this year in Anaheim, what will it be pitching in Coors?
I doubt they'd go for it, but lets trade them Atkins, Bucholz and another player for Hendrick and Saunders. Heck, lets throw in Denny Bautista as well.

WABronco
05-14-2007, 08:40 AM
Reed is messed up right now.

Have you seen Wladimir Balentin? .319, 8 HR, 27 RBI has been a pleasant suprise so far for a toolsy outfielder who apparently didn't make enough contact to survive.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v437/BroncoLB56/DSC02303.jpg

Yea he's actually kind of exciting right now. I think he's out of options next year, so this is great timing. We could use a power hitting corner OF'er.

It's funny, everyone's scared that he's the PTBNL in the Jason Davis trade. I'd hope that Bavasi isn't that desperate and dumb, but yea...wouldn't be surprised.

Drek
05-14-2007, 10:03 AM
Ouch. I guess not many people get to see our train wreck of a baseball club and don't know which side Helton's bats from LOL .

Any talk of J.D. Drew being part of the greatest anything in baseball is out of line. Hell, the Yankees put out a better L/R/L/R/L combo than the Sox even if they had Helton. Damon/Jeter/Abreu/Arod/Giambi is their normal top 5 and even with all those great hitters the Yankees are two games below .500.

My mistake, I drew up a lineup a few months back on a Sox site I go to, got it right then. Guess I just haven't seen the Rockies play in so long I forgot. ;P

Also, I'd take Drew's bat over Damon's, Abreu's or Jeter's if you throw position out (Jeter is easily the most valuable though, thanks to position).

3 year Batted Runs Above Average from Baseball Prospectus:
Abreu: 23.67
Damon: 16.33
Jeter: 27.67

Drew: 34.67

Drew spent the last two years playing home games in Chavez Ravine. He also missed half a season in 2005. Despite that his BRAA is higher than any of them, only 5.33 runs lower than Abreu's and Damon's combined (15% of Drew's annual production).

When healthy Drew is one of the best five tool guys in baseball, he's also two years younger than the other three. So how doesn't he qualify?

Wouldn't surprise me if Youkilis/Ortiz/Manny/Drew contribute a higher BRAA than the the Yankee's 1-4 or 2-5.

PatsWin2002
05-14-2007, 11:01 AM
For you Red Sox fans.....there is a Sox board that spun off of PatriotsPlanet:

http://www.soxplanet.com/forums/index.php

TheChamp24
05-14-2007, 12:16 PM
My mistake, I drew up a lineup a few months back on a Sox site I go to, got it right then. Guess I just haven't seen the Rockies play in so long I forgot. ;P

Also, I'd take Drew's bat over Damon's, Abreu's or Jeter's if you throw position out (Jeter is easily the most valuable though, thanks to position).

3 year Batted Runs Above Average from Baseball Prospectus:
Abreu: 23.67
Damon: 16.33
Jeter: 27.67

Drew: 34.67

Drew spent the last two years playing home games in Chavez Ravine. He also missed half a season in 2005. Despite that his BRAA is higher than any of them, only 5.33 runs lower than Abreu's and Damon's combined (15% of Drew's annual production).

When healthy Drew is one of the best five tool guys in baseball, he's also two years younger than the other three. So how doesn't he qualify?

Wouldn't surprise me if Youkilis/Ortiz/Manny/Drew contribute a higher BRAA than the the Yankee's 1-4 or 2-5.

Dude, just stop because you keep digging yourself deeper and deeper. Drew has had 2 good years(1 being injured) and 1 decent year. He just has had so many injury problems. Also, he is not a five tool guy, and not one of the best there. He hasn't stolen more than 2 bases in 3 years. Also, wow, what a great job Drew is doing, getting benched for Willy Mo Pena. You overrate Drew dramatically. He is decent, but nothing great. Kinda like Brad Hawpe IMO. I would take Jeter or Abreu over Drew any day probably.

-Slap-
05-14-2007, 01:29 PM
Beckett is in a Catch-22. If he throws too many breaking balls, he gets blisters and goes on the DL. If he relies on his fastball too much, he makes all his starts, but he's responsible for more homers than Victor Conte.

Uh oh.

Tough break for Beckett: Skin avulsion cuts a start short (http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=1001161)

Drek
05-14-2007, 02:37 PM
Dude, just stop because you keep digging yourself deeper and deeper. Drew has had 2 good years(1 being injured) and 1 decent year. He just has had so many injury problems. Also, he is not a five tool guy, and not one of the best there. He hasn't stolen more than 2 bases in 3 years. Also, wow, what a great job Drew is doing, getting benched for Willy Mo Pena. You overrate Drew dramatically. He is decent, but nothing great. Kinda like Brad Hawpe IMO. I would take Jeter or Abreu over Drew any day probably.

Drew has been playing in roles that don't require stealing. Having speed as a weapon isn't only displayed in the number of stolen bases a guy racks up. Drew has the speed to cover CF as well as enough speed to go from 1st to 3rd on a solid OF single. He isn't Juan Pierre but he's better than average.

I know you probably don't understand how Wily Mo would ever get in a game, you probably cheer for a team that doesn't even field 9 league average starters. The Sox do and then some. Thankfully Francona is smart enough to realize that you're best off to rotate and sub guys, even early in the season, to keep them all fresh and capable.

You seem to consider Damon a good player, his career high BRAA is 19 (2000 in KC). Drew has beat that four times, with two that were close (18 in 2000, 15 in 2003). Drew has also never been below average. Damon has 4 times.

Abreu was a hell of a player once, but his power has disappeared since he won the HR Comp at the 2005 ASB. Thats now gone on for over a year and a half. When he gets that back on track then sure, he's a better player than Drew. Until then, he's a good OBP guy without much else to brag about.

Jeter's great (though his defense is highly overrated, he should be at 2B with Rodriguez at SS but I'm not complaining), but his career offensive production is very similar to where Drew's is at, just with a ton more ABs. Is a guy staying healthy important? Sure it is, and thats why Cap'n Jetes is the more valuable player. But a healthy Drew holds his own with anyone.

His health is irrelevant, you said he had no place in such a discussion. Injury doesn't invalidate a great hitter's skills, just reduces his true value (much like poor fielding).

Uh oh.

Tough break for Beckett: Skin avulsion cuts a start short (http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=1001161)


Avulsions are different from blisters, they're small tears in the skin. Though it's what used to trouble him before.

However, Beckett says it didn't tear his callus and he believes he'll make his next start.

Derek Lowe had a lot of similar issues prior to coming to Boston and the medical staff found a way to resolve that. Lowe still had the occasional issue but it was never anything huge. That said, if it was the choice between '06 Beckett with 32-35 starts or the '07 Beckett we've seen to date with 27-30 starts I'd take the later hands down.

TheChamp24
05-14-2007, 05:26 PM
Drew has been playing in roles that don't require stealing. Having speed as a weapon isn't only displayed in the number of stolen bases a guy racks up. Drew has the speed to cover CF as well as enough speed to go from 1st to 3rd on a solid OF single. He isn't Juan Pierre but he's better than average.

I know you probably don't understand how Wily Mo would ever get in a game, you probably cheer for a team that doesn't even field 9 league average starters. The Sox do and then some. Thankfully Francona is smart enough to realize that you're best off to rotate and sub guys, even early in the season, to keep them all fresh and capable.

You seem to consider Damon a good player, his career high BRAA is 19 (2000 in KC). Drew has beat that four times, with two that were close (18 in 2000, 15 in 2003). Drew has also never been below average. Damon has 4 times.

Abreu was a hell of a player once, but his power has disappeared since he won the HR Comp at the 2005 ASB. Thats now gone on for over a year and a half. When he gets that back on track then sure, he's a better player than Drew. Until then, he's a good OBP guy without much else to brag about.

Jeter's great (though his defense is highly overrated, he should be at 2B with Rodriguez at SS but I'm not complaining), but his career offensive production is very similar to where Drew's is at, just with a ton more ABs. Is a guy staying healthy important? Sure it is, and thats why Cap'n Jetes is the more valuable player. But a healthy Drew holds his own with anyone.

His health is irrelevant, you said he had no place in such a discussion. Injury doesn't invalidate a great hitter's skills, just reduces his true value (much like poor fielding).


First, his health is important, because if he isn't in the lineup, then there goes your whole theory.
Second, it has been reported that Drew was BENCHED in favor of Pena. Meaning, Drew was playing horrible so Pena got the nod. I know Pena is a decent OF, but he is no world class OF.
Third, why do you keep on bringing up BRAA. I have NEVER seen that used in a heavy argument about a players skills. Jeter is by far better than Drew. Jeter always hits for a high average, gets on base and scores runs while coming up with clutch hits. Only twice has Drew hit over .300, and 1 year he only played in 109 games. And don't bring up "oh, he's not in a position to steal bases so thats why he doesn't get them" BS. If you have speed, you steal bases. Larry Walker stole bases while hitting homeruns out. And I'm not saying he needs to steal 30 bases, but more than 5 would do wonders for me if you want me to believe he is a 5 tool player, which I don't think he is. He is solid in areas, but like I said, you are overrating him. There are plenty of other players I'd rather have than Drew in the OF.

SouthStndJunkie
05-14-2007, 11:59 PM
Greg Maddux is pitching an absolute gem tonight.

Pendejo
05-15-2007, 12:24 AM
Greg Maddux is pitching an absolute gem tonight.

A complete game. 5 hits 1 run. When he came up to bat in the eighth he was greeted with a standing ovation. Last week when he came up to bat in Atlanta he was also embraced by the crowd. After he singled...he was heartily booed.

He's been great this year. He's clearly had an influence on Peavy.

Peavy reciting a lesson he's learned from Maddux..."Why overthrow when you don't have to?" That can be found in last week's Union Tribune.

SouthStndJunkie
05-15-2007, 12:38 AM
A complete game. 5 hits 1 run. When he came up to bat in the eighth he was greeted with a standing ovation. Last week when he came up to bat in Atlanta he was also embraced by the crowd. After he singled...he was heartily booed.

He's been great this year. He's clearly had an influence on Peavy.

Peavy reciting a lesson he's learned from Maddux..."Why overthrow when you don't have to?" That can be found in last week's Union Tribune.

Maddux has always been one of my favorite players.

I think he can pitch another 3-4 years at an effective level if he wants to.

-Slap-
05-15-2007, 01:04 AM
I would rather anybody on this board - and I mean anybody - had been blessed with the God given baseball ability JD Drew had bestowed upon him at birth. What a waste of talent and what a fundamentally awful baseball player. I've never seen two runners gunned out at home plate on the same throw before. Not in high school, not in little league. I saw it happen to JD Drew in a frigging playoff game. The guy has just epitomized the ultimate selfish malingering jake to me throughout his entire career.

Drek
05-15-2007, 09:33 AM
First, his health is important, because if he isn't in the lineup, then there goes your whole theory.
I agree that staying healthy is important, but its not when deciding if a guy even belongs in the discussion, which Drew does.


Second, it has been reported that Drew was BENCHED in favor of Pena. Meaning, Drew was playing horrible so Pena got the nod. I know Pena is a decent OF, but he is no world class OF.
Seriously? I'm a lifelong Red Sox fan. I'm sure you don't quite understand what that means, but for me that means I watch or listen to 95% of the 162 games played over the summer and every last playoff game, innings 1 through 9, regardless of score or standing. When it comes to the Red Sox I personally know more about them than the national media, and thats without even popping over to SoSH, the most dedicated and knowledgeable fanbase in baseball. Drew hasn't been benched, he's gotten a few days off here and there. As has Manny, Lowell, Youkilis, Lugo, Pedroia, etc.. The Sox have a good bench, Hinske and Pena could start on many teams, Cora and Mirabelli could start on a handful as well. Francona is making use of it to keep Drew, Manny, and all the rest rested and healthy for the stretch run.


Third, why do you keep on bringing up BRAA. I have NEVER seen that used in a heavy argument about a players skills.
Then you clearly don't engage in higher level baseball discussions. Would you rather I used OPS+? WARP? Drew holds his own in any of those categories.

Jeter is by far better than Drew. I don't disagree with that, I've said previously in this thread that Jeter is more valuable. But over the last three years Drew has been a better offense producer.

Only twice has Drew hit over .300, and 1 year he only played in 109 games.
There are many more important metrics than batting average, like OBP. FYI, Drew's career BA is .285, solid in its own right, but he pairs it up with an excellent .392 OBP. I thought the days of sabrmetric analysis being viewed as voodoo was behind us, but thank you for pointing out that most baseball fans still don't get what they're actually seeing on the field.

And don't bring up "oh, he's not in a position to steal bases so thats why he doesn't get them" BS. If you have speed, you steal bases. Larry Walker stole bases while hitting homeruns out. And I'm not saying he needs to steal 30 bases, but more than 5 would do wonders for me if you want me to believe he is a 5 tool player, which I don't think he is. He is solid in areas, but like I said, you are overrating him. There are plenty of other players I'd rather have than Drew in the OF.
Just how many #3 and #4 hitters steal bases? Thats where Drew has batted most of his career. He also spent the last few years playing for the DePo ran Dodgers who weren't big fans of stealing (much like the Sox now, only Lugo and Crisp get the green light). When Drew first came up he stole 19/17/13 bases respectively in his first three seasons and without breaking 460 PAs in any of those years (he was platooned against lefties).

When Drew is healthy he does everything a 5 tool player should, he covers ground in the field, has a strong arm, hits for power and average, and is a strong baserunner.

He isn't a young Vlad Guerrero, but you don't need to be all world across the board to be a 5 tool player. You just need above average skills in each category, which Drew does, making it a viable skill you can offer your club.

Drek
05-15-2007, 09:39 AM
I would rather anybody on this board - and I mean anybody - had been blessed with the God given baseball ability JD Drew had bestowed upon him at birth. What a waste of talent and what a fundamentally awful baseball player. I've never seen two runners gunned out at home plate on the same throw before. Not in high school, not in little league. I saw it happen to JD Drew in a frigging playoff game. The guy has just epitomized the ultimate selfish malingering jake to me throughout his entire career.

It happened like, two weeks ago. Sometimes a fast guy gets behind a slow guy and the 3B coach just keeps waving them through.

Bad plays at home plate are on the shoulders of the 3B coach unless a player ran through his stop sign.

I'm not saying Drew isn't a cockbag. He very well might be. But despite that he's one of the best pure baseball talents to play in the past decade.

-Slap-
05-15-2007, 10:28 AM
It happened like, two weeks ago. Sometimes a fast guy gets behind a slow guy and the 3B coach just keeps waving them through.

Bad plays at home plate are on the shoulders of the 3B coach unless a player ran through his stop sign.

I'm not saying Drew isn't a cockbag. He very well might be. But despite that he's one of the best pure baseball talents to play in the past decade.

This was a case of a guy having his head up his ass during a playoff game. Manny is more baseball savvy and probably a better teammate.

I would be interested to hear more about the play you mentioned. I've never seen it happen in 35 years of watching baseball. Except in the movie Major League, and Willie Mays Snipes and his teammate were both safe, not both out by a mile.

Drek
05-15-2007, 11:04 AM
This was a case of a guy having his head up his ass during a playoff game. Manny is more baseball savvy and probably a better teammate.

I would be interested to hear more about the play you mentioned. I've never seen it happen in 35 years of watching baseball. Except in the movie Major League, and Willie Mays Snipes and his teammate were both safe, not both out by a mile.

I believe it was the Pirates, they had guys on 2nd and first, the batter hit a gapper, both guys take off, guy from 1st is literally 5 feet at most behind the guy from 2nd rounding 3rd, 3B coach just keeps waving them on in. In that case the first guy was safe (barely) and the 2nd was out easily. Had the relay throw not been four feet off home plate both of them were toast.

That was simply a case of a slow fatty on 2nd and a speedy guy on 1st teamed up with a 3B coach who didn't make a very good call. When you get two guys that are so close rounding 3rd and you're sending one its pretty legitimate to think both will get in, especially when the back end is the faster of the two.

I'm not completely disagreeing with your assessment of Drew. I think he's a very alert player who's head is always in the game but he's got something of a hero complex. Its not nearly what it used to be now, but when he first started playing he clearly saw three outcomes for a game, losing, winning, and him carrying the team to victory. The first and second were far less preferable than the third.

That said, comparing anyone's baseball savvy to Manny's is pretty harsh and probably very inaccurate (unless its Wily Mo Pena). For Manny's first couple years in Boston he'd have to be told by the ump to take first base on walks. When then-GM Dan Duquette asked him what was up he said he didn't keep track of the number of balls, just strikes because "You pay me to hit". He's oblivious, but he's an offensive savant.

TheChamp24
05-15-2007, 02:24 PM
I agree that staying healthy is important, but its not when deciding if a guy even belongs in the discussion, which Drew does.


Seriously? I'm a lifelong Red Sox fan. I'm sure you don't quite understand what that means, but for me that means I watch or listen to 95% of the 162 games played over the summer and every last playoff game, innings 1 through 9, regardless of score or standing. When it comes to the Red Sox I personally know more about them than the national media, and thats without even popping over to SoSH, the most dedicated and knowledgeable fanbase in baseball. Drew hasn't been benched, he's gotten a few days off here and there. As has Manny, Lowell, Youkilis, Lugo, Pedroia, etc.. The Sox have a good bench, Hinske and Pena could start on many teams, Cora and Mirabelli could start on a handful as well. Francona is making use of it to keep Drew, Manny, and all the rest rested and healthy for the stretch run.


Then you clearly don't engage in higher level baseball discussions. Would you rather I used OPS+? WARP? Drew holds his own in any of those categories.

I don't disagree with that, I've said previously in this thread that Jeter is more valuable. But over the last three years Drew has been a better offense producer.


There are many more important metrics than batting average, like OBP. FYI, Drew's career BA is .285, solid in its own right, but he pairs it up with an excellent .392 OBP. I thought the days of sabrmetric analysis being viewed as voodoo was behind us, but thank you for pointing out that most baseball fans still don't get what they're actually seeing on the field.


Just how many #3 and #4 hitters steal bases? Thats where Drew has batted most of his career. He also spent the last few years playing for the DePo ran Dodgers who weren't big fans of stealing (much like the Sox now, only Lugo and Crisp get the green light). When Drew first came up he stole 19/17/13 bases respectively in his first three seasons and without breaking 460 PAs in any of those years (he was platooned against lefties).

When Drew is healthy he does everything a 5 tool player should, he covers ground in the field, has a strong arm, hits for power and average, and is a strong baserunner.

He isn't a young Vlad Guerrero, but you don't need to be all world across the board to be a 5 tool player. You just need above average skills in each category, which Drew does, making it a viable skill you can offer your club.

First off, if Drew had speed to steal bases, then I'd imagine teams would give him the signs to steal them. I'm not saying he is slow, but average-above average speed.
And thanks for acting like I don't know squat about baseball. Yeah, whatever, go talk to your Sox fans about how great your precious JD Drew is and how great his .248 average, 2 homeruns, 12 RBI's and 18 runs scored and paying him $14 million to do so. I'm done talking to you now, and like I said, go talk up Drew on your Sox boards, asshole.

Clockwork Orange
05-15-2007, 02:52 PM
Unintentional comedy of the day.

A guy in one of my roto leagues just put Bob Wickman on the block with the comment, "Who wants a solid closer on a good team?" I wanted to respond with, "Sounds Great! Let us know when you've got one available."

Bob f'n Wickman. :nono:

TheChamp24
05-15-2007, 03:03 PM
Unintentional comedy of the day.

A guy in one of my roto leagues just put Bob Wickman on the block with the comment, "Who wants a solid closer on a good team?" I wanted to respond with, "Sounds Great! Let us know when you've got one available."

Bob f'n Wickman. :nono:

haha, thats great. Wickman, good for about 30 saves because he is on a contender, but horrible. Reminds me of when Shawn ****con, I mean Chacon was the Rockies closer one year and ended up getting like 37 saves but an ERA of around 7. Couldn't believe that he continued to be the closer for the entire year.

OrangeShadow
05-15-2007, 04:02 PM
JD is just lucky that the rest of the lineup is smashing the ball right now

Drek
05-15-2007, 04:24 PM
First off, if Drew had speed to steal bases, then I'd imagine teams would give him the signs to steal them. I'm not saying he is slow, but average-above average speed.
And thanks for acting like I don't know squat about baseball. Yeah, whatever, go talk to your Sox fans about how great your precious JD Drew is and how great his .248 average, 2 homeruns, 12 RBI's and 18 runs scored and paying him $14 million to do so. I'm done talking to you now, and like I said, go talk up Drew on your Sox boards, a-hole.

I didn't act like you don't know squat about baseball, you proved it by acting like BA was a more relevant gauge of offensive production than BRAA. One dimensional contact stat that is partially reliant on luck (BABIP) or a stat that through years of statistical analysis has developed into a metric that not only incorporates contact, plate discipline, and power but then also compares it to the league average.

You then acted like I didn't know **** about the Sox by saying he was benched.

I simply displayed how far off base you were in both assessments, sorry that I wasn't in the mood to coddle your ego.

And FYI, Drew hit .350/.437/.500 through his first 17 games this year. He's hit a rough patch over the next 14 but thats the nature of the beast. It doesn't invalidate his skill level, just like the previous 17 wasn't indicative of him being a potential batting champion.

Feel free to throw around insults instead of bringing some insight to back your opinions up. I'm sure its much easier than actually learning something along the way.

Hogan11
05-15-2007, 08:20 PM
God I hate the Marlins.

My Boys took the first one from the Sith's Fish last night...I'd love to sweep these guys.

Of course, the minute I post this, Uggly homers....the rat bastard :(

The beginning of a total 6th inning meltdown..yeech.

TheChamp24
05-15-2007, 08:49 PM
Man, Hirsh has such a great changeup. If his location is on he will put in a quality start most of the time.

SouthStndJunkie
05-15-2007, 09:29 PM
Justin Verlander shut down the Red Sox tonight.

I love watching that kid pitch.

-Slap-
05-15-2007, 10:26 PM
Felix Hernandez is back on the mound against the halos tonight. A hit, a walk and a strikeout in a 21-pitch scoreless first inning.

Kelvim Escobar is on the mound for Anaheim. He's coming off a complete game shutout of the Indians in his last start.

SouthStndJunkie
05-15-2007, 10:53 PM
Randy Johnson turned back the clock tonight.

6 innings pitched: 1 hit, 0 walks, and 9 Ks.

WABronco
05-15-2007, 11:14 PM
http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060406/060406_guillen_vmed_7p.widec.jpg (http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060406/060406_guillen_vmed_7p.widec.jpg)

WWAAAAAAAAARGGGGGGGGGG!

Jose Guillen continues to own his former team! For everything dumb Bill Bavasi did this offseason, the Guillen signing has been absolutely brilliant so far (I believe we have a team option for '08, as well...SWEET). Impact bat, cannon arm, and finally someone who will kick ass and take names in that clubhouse!

-Slap-
05-15-2007, 11:23 PM
9-1 Mariners. Only one out in a six run third inning for the M's right now.

Think they're a little bit excited to get their Ace back on the mound.

WABronco
05-15-2007, 11:26 PM
Yeaaaa boy this is great!

http://homepage.mac.com/lspath/rally_monkey.jpg

Die Angels...DIE!

-Slap-
05-15-2007, 11:27 PM
http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060406/060406_guillen_vmed_7p.widec.jpg (http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060406/060406_guillen_vmed_7p.widec.jpg)

WWAAAAAAAAARGGGGGGGGGG!

Jose Guillen continues to own his former team! For everything dumb Bill Bavasi did this offseason, the Guillen signing has been absolutely brilliant so far (I believe we have a team option for '08, as well...SWEET). Impact bat, cannon arm, and finally someone who will kick ass and take names in that clubhouse!

Its good that Jose is channeling his emotions positively now. He doesn't know it and might never admit it, but Mike Scioscia treated him fairly and ultimately might have done him a big favor.

Clockwork Orange
05-15-2007, 11:28 PM
9-1 Mariners. Only one out in a six run third inning for the M's right now.

Think they're a little bit excited to get their Ace back on the mound.

I only hope they let King Felix go just long enough to pick up the win. :pray:

WABronco
05-15-2007, 11:30 PM
I only hope they let King Felix go just long enough to pick up the win. :pray:

Yea I know he's down to less than 20 pitches though until that pitch count tops out. He's on or around a 70-80 PC tonight.

Clockwork Orange
05-15-2007, 11:34 PM
Single and a double to start the inning. Not looking like he's gonna make it through the required 5 innings.

-Slap-
05-15-2007, 11:48 PM
Single and a double to start the inning. Not looking like he's gonna make it through the required 5 innings.

But he did stick around long enough to make the outing roto-ugly.

Clockwork Orange
05-15-2007, 11:51 PM
But he did stick around long enough to make the outing roto-ugly.

I noticed. :moody:

WABronco
05-15-2007, 11:53 PM
Wowwww Johjima just KILLED one. Excellent offensive catcher.

Hotwheelz
05-16-2007, 12:02 AM
Aaron Harang balked in the tying run in the 8th by getting his cleat stuck in the mound.

-Slap-
05-16-2007, 12:03 AM
Aaron Haraang balked in the tying run by in the 8th by getting his cleat stuck in the mound.

The big lummox.

Pendejo
05-16-2007, 12:24 AM
Aaron Harang balked in the tying run in the 8th by getting his cleat stuck in the mound.

And the $9 million sink hole that is Brian Giles didn't even flirt with bringing in the winning run from third.

Linebrink k's three in a row after a lead off walk. To the bottom of the 10th we go.

Taco John
05-16-2007, 05:35 PM
Check out this trade in my keeper league:

I give up Jason Isringhausen (RP) and Aaron Hill (2B, SS), and he gives up Mark Beuhrle (SP) and Albert Pujols (1B).

Clockwork Orange
05-16-2007, 05:40 PM
Check out this trade in my keeper league:

I give up Jason Isringhausen (RP) and Aaron Hill (2B, SS), and he gives up Mark Beuhrle (SP) and Albert Pujols (1B).

If I was in that league, I'd object to that so fast your head would spin.

I'm not, though, so good on ya'. :thumbs:

OrangeShadow
05-16-2007, 06:14 PM
Yeaaaa boy this is great!

http://homepage.mac.com/lspath/rally_monkey.jpg

Die Angels...DIE!

thats an awesome pic lol:strong:

Clockwork Orange
05-16-2007, 07:26 PM
It looks like youngster Andrew Miller will make his MLB debut in place of the injured Jeremy Bonderman on Friday.

MechanicalBull
05-16-2007, 07:39 PM
If I was in that league, I'd object to that so fast your head would spin.

I'm not, though, so good on ya'. :thumbs:

LOL I totally agree, but yeah it's a good trade Taco.

One more thing Taco your reasoning for why you turned down my trade in our league was the same reason I offered the trade. I think he is just off to a slow start and is way too great of a player to not bounce back.

Bronco LB 59
05-16-2007, 08:20 PM
It looks like youngster Andrew Miller will make his MLB debut in place of the injured Jeremy Bonderman on Friday.

Miller made his MLB debut last September, but this will be his first big league start.

The southpaw was brilliant in his last start, but he has been far from lights out between Single-A and Double-A this year.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Andrew%2520Miller&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=453192

Bronco LB 59
05-16-2007, 08:25 PM
Check out this trade in my keeper league:

I give up Jason Isringhausen (RP) and Aaron Hill (2B, SS), and he gives up Mark Beuhrle (SP) and Albert Pujols (1B).

You need to get in a more competitive league Taco.

I'm in a keeper league and last year Pujols was dealt for David Wright, Jake Peavy and Jim Thome! That was the price for acquiring the best hitter in baseball and having him on your squad for the next ten years. There wasn't one complaint about the trade either, the Commish even admitted it was a "beautiful trade".

Clockwork Orange
05-16-2007, 08:31 PM
Miller made his MLB debut last September, but this will be his first big league start.

Yeah...uhh...that's what I meant, of course. ;D

Taco John
05-16-2007, 08:35 PM
LOL I totally agree, but yeah it's a good trade Taco.

One more thing Taco your reasoning for why you turned down my trade in our league was the same reason I offered the trade. I think he is just off to a slow start and is way too great of a player to not bounce back.

Yeah, I like that team, but they just haven't pulled it together yet. They've shown some promise, but I'm kind of taking the tact that says "I'm going to let them find themselves until about the middle of June, and if I need to start making wholesale changes to the roster in order to make a push towards the top, I'll do it then.

For me, it's easy to hold onto a hitter who is underperforming if I think he's going to give me lights out numbers in the dog days of July and August.

Taco John
05-16-2007, 08:50 PM
You need to get in a more competitive league Taco.

I'm in a keeper league and last year Pujols was dealt for David Wright, Jake Peavy and Jim Thome! That was the price for acquiring the best hitter in baseball and having him on your squad for the next ten years. There wasn't one complaint about the trade either, the Commish even admitted it was a "beautiful trade".


Yeah, these are my buds who talked me into joining the league last year because they noticed that I was taking a keen interest in baseball. So I came in and went to work on them. In my fist season, I held control of the leage for every week except for one during the year, but had some bad luck and maybe even mismanaged a bit there at the end, and lost in the playoffs.

This year, I'm not in first, and the league is more competitive, but I'm the second place team right now looking for the first place team to slip up. The problem is that our teams are similarly built (though I don't believe his pitching will hold up down the stretch).

MechanicalBull
05-16-2007, 09:39 PM
Yeah, I like that team, but they just haven't pulled it together yet. They've shown some promise, but I'm kind of taking the tact that says "I'm going to let them find themselves until about the middle of June, and if I need to start making wholesale changes to the roster in order to make a push towards the top, I'll do it then.

For me, it's easy to hold onto a hitter who is underperforming if I think he's going to give me lights out numbers in the dog days of July and August.

I agree. The proven hitters are easy to hold onto because you have to give them the benefit of the doubt. I was a bit shocked to see that you did drop Delgado pretty quick. He is another one off to a slow start but always bats in the upper .200s with 30+ hr and about 115 rbi.

I get antsy and feel like I need to make moves especially when I'm doing good in most batting categories but horrible in SBs. The season has only just begun so I should wait and see how things play out.

Clockwork Orange
05-16-2007, 10:10 PM
Brad Hawpe's power may be finally coming around. He's hit a pair of bombs tonight off of Brandon Webb.

Clockwork Orange
05-16-2007, 10:22 PM
Speaking of bombs, JJ Hardy just hit his NL leading 13th of the season to break up Cole Hamels' no hitter in the 7th.

-Slap-
05-16-2007, 11:07 PM
Hunter Pence is definitely starting to look like a viable option in mixed leagues. 4-4 with a homer and stolen base tonight.

Pendejo
05-17-2007, 02:56 AM
Bronson Arroyo walks in the winning run...which appeared to be strike three.

Perhaps the MLB umpires should go on strike again.

I'm glad the Madres won, but...yipes!

MechanicalBull
05-17-2007, 06:39 AM
Hunter Pence is definitely starting to look like a viable option in mixed leagues. 4-4 with a homer and stolen base tonight.

And right when I dropped him in favor of Jack Cust. I should've just stashed him on the bench and see how it played out. I dumped him when we was hitting around .230ish with 2 hrs and now a week later he is hitting .355 4 hr 15 rbi and 2 sb.

OrangeShadow
05-17-2007, 07:14 AM
Lester is going to make a start in AAA today

-Slap-
05-17-2007, 09:02 AM
And right when I dropped him in favor of Jack Cust. I should've just stashed him on the bench and see how it played out. I dumped him when we was hitting around .230ish with 2 hrs and now a week later he is hitting .355 4 hr 15 rbi and 2 sb.

Well, don't drop Cust just yet. He's been waiting for a shot in the Bigs for years and so far he's making the most of his opportunity.

Clockwork Orange
05-17-2007, 02:56 PM
Try out the "Guess which prospect they were talking about" quiz. (http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/quiz?event_id=2930)

OrangeShadow
05-17-2007, 03:28 PM
man tavarez pitched a gem! and pap brought the mother effin gas today

B-Love
05-17-2007, 05:14 PM
You want an indicator of just how bad the Twins lineup is right now without Mauer??

Julian Tavarez shut em down.

The entire Twin City area is ashamed they were shut down by that freak/stiff.

MechanicalBull
05-17-2007, 05:19 PM
What a win by the Mets today. Scoring 5 runs in the bottom of the 9th to win 6-5. Dempster gives up all 5. There are worse closers out there but Ryan Dempster is not good at all.

elsid13
05-17-2007, 06:43 PM
That is a good question. Who is the worse closer in the bigs???

OrangeShadow
05-17-2007, 06:44 PM
who knows,but if you want to know the best just take a look to the left of your screen

elsid13
05-17-2007, 06:51 PM
who knows,but if you want to know the best just take a look to the left of your screen

He looked sweet today that split finger was nasty and ain't far when he can bring a 95 mile an hour fastball that moves.


But so did the reliever from Detriot had good game. 5K in 6 batters faced

Hoping for the rare double header sweep

Clockwork Orange
05-17-2007, 06:53 PM
That is a good question. Who is the worse closer in the bigs???

I'd say Bob Wickman & Joe Borowski are definitely in the conversation with Dempster.

Pendejo
05-17-2007, 07:04 PM
Try out the "Guess which prospect they were talking about" quiz. (http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/quiz?event_id=2930)

I got a scorching 10 out of 35 correct. A real flashback to high school.

Rock Chalk
05-17-2007, 07:05 PM
I gotta tell you. these ****ing astros are hard to peg. One week, nothing. Next week, they cant lose.

Milwaukee sure hit a slump though. Tough road trip they've had.

MechanicalBull
05-17-2007, 07:36 PM
I'd say Bob Wickman & Joe Borowski are definitely in the conversation with Dempster.

All these guys are middle of the road type closers. You can add Benitez to the mix. The guy can look real good sometimes and other times especially when the pressure is on he is horrible.

Hogan11
05-17-2007, 07:53 PM
F The Marlins!

Tony Armas is utterly useless as a starter....the faster Mr. 8.44 ERA is out of the rotation, the better IMHO.

B-Love
05-17-2007, 08:47 PM
Every NFL season, announcers annoint 15 different home stadiums crowds as the "loudest fans in the league".

Every year in baseball there are 20 different fan bases who swear their closer is the biggest piece of **** in the land.

MechanicalBull
05-17-2007, 09:34 PM
F The Marlins!

Tony Armas is utterly useless as a starter....the faster Mr. 8.44 ERA is out of the rotation, the better IMHO.

That's how I felt about Mike Pelfry and they finally optioned him down to AAA. I don't know why any team keep guys like Armas, Pelfry and so on in the rotation when they are so bad and it's pretty much a guaranteed loss.

Clockwork Orange
05-17-2007, 09:51 PM
Tim Lincecum absolutely dealing tonight. 7 IP, 1 ER, 2 H, 1 BB, 10 K.

Unfortunately for him, he had to go head to head with Roy Oswalt.

elsid13
05-17-2007, 10:28 PM
Red Sox take 3 out of 4 from the Tigers. That with Manny yet to dailed into hitting this season

MechanicalBull
05-18-2007, 06:39 AM
Huge blow for Boston http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AiufSKHHqymP5t1KZBad91ARvLYF?slug=ap-redsox-beckett&prov=ap&type=lgns

BOSTON (AP) -- Josh Beckett (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6403/;_ylt=Agqy15rsFvlBcrO9S7iJtsGpu7YF) is headed for the disabled list because of a finger injury and is expected to miss two starts before returning for Boston's home game May 29 against Cleveland.

-Slap-
05-18-2007, 08:37 AM
Huge blow for Boston http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AiufSKHHqymP5t1KZBad91ARvLYF?slug=ap-redsox-beckett&prov=ap&type=lgns

The sixth time in his career that finger has put him on the disabled list.

Hogan11
05-18-2007, 11:07 AM
That's how I felt about Mike Pelfry and they finally optioned him down to AAA. I don't know why any team keep guys like Armas, Pelfry and so on in the rotation when they are so bad and it's pretty much a guaranteed loss.

You can kiss Armas goodbye...when you're beat out by the likes of Chacon in a make or break start...you know you're either headed to the bullpen for inning eating long relief or you're headed out of town.

Smelvin
05-18-2007, 05:05 PM
Tim Lincecum is absolutely filthy. FILTHY!

Lincecum, Cain, Zito, Lowry, Morris/Sanchez....ladies and gents, meet the best rotation in baseball....for the forseeable future!

Unfortunately, you can't win games 0 to -1.

MechanicalBull
05-18-2007, 05:14 PM
The sixth time in his career that finger has put him on the disabled list.

I heard on the radio a few days ago that they were saying Beckett is pretty much damned if you do and damned if you don't in regards to his blister problem. Meaning if he pitches the way he wants to pitch then he ends up getting blisters but if he lightens up he won't get any blisters but batters will start to tee off on him.

elsid13
05-18-2007, 05:14 PM
Huge blow for Boston http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AiufSKHHqymP5t1KZBad91ARvLYF?slug=ap-redsox-beckett&prov=ap&type=lgns

The good thing is the Sox have 9 game lead on the rest of the division at this point and can afford for him to miss two starts. I am more concerned with the piss poor pitching of Schilling then this injury. Add into thate fact that Drew is hurt and Manny ain't hitting I am surprise how the Sox continue to win. Wouldn't be surprise if there is a trade for some power come late June

Clockwork Orange
05-18-2007, 05:22 PM
Now Jason Giambi, one of the poster boys for steroids and performance enhancing drugs, thinks the league should apologize for the steroid problem.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2874365

Naturally, he waited until long after he juiced his way to a contract worth $120 million to decide that an apology was in order. Convenient.

Of course, his attempt to be high and mighty is immediatly checked by his ridiculous insistance that steroids didn't help him hit home runs. He then gets asked why he took them and he refuses to answer. Nice.

You're a ****ing fraud, Giambi. No amount of ass kissing or backpedaling you do now is going to change that.

Taco John
05-18-2007, 06:09 PM
Trader John on the move again...


Last week, I traded Orlando Hudson and Jeremy Bonderman away to bring in John Lackey and Bobby Abreu.

This week, I swindled a guy (pending), giving up Aaron Hill and Jason Isringhausen for Albert Pujols and Mark Buehrle.

Now, I'm offering Chris Young and Bobby Abreu for Alfonso Soriano.

We'll see how it goes, but if I play my cards right, I could walk out of this season with Pujols, Ortiz, and Soriano as keepers... I have one more keeper spot too. Here are the guys who are trying to make the cut:

Victor Martinez
Jimmy Rollins
Carlos Beltran
Jason Bay
Matt Holliday
Prince Fielder

I got my work cut out for me.

Clockwork Orange
05-18-2007, 06:54 PM
Can someone explain to me why on earth the D-Rays would put Elijah Dukes in the leadoff spot? Seriously, every time I watch this kid hit, he's swinging out of his shoes. Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but I thought that lead off men were supposed to try to make contact and get on base, not try to hit a five run homer every at bat.

MechanicalBull
05-18-2007, 06:58 PM
Trader John on the move again...


Last week, I traded Orlando Hudson and Jeremy Bonderman away to bring in John Lackey and Bobby Abreu.

This week, I swindled a guy (pending), giving up Aaron Hill and Jason Isringhausen for Albert Pujols and Mark Buehrle.

Now, I'm offering Chris Young and Bobby Abreu for Alfonso Soriano.

We'll see how it goes, but if I play my cards right, I could walk out of this season with Pujols, Ortiz, and Soriano as keepers... I have one more keeper spot too. Here are the guys who are trying to make the cut:

Victor Martinez
Jimmy Rollins
Carlos Beltran
Jason Bay
Matt Holliday
Prince Fielder

I got my work cut out for me.

You have some bad people making trades in your league but hey more power to you. I like Fielder a lot and think he is going to be good for a long time but if you have Pujols, Ortiz and get Soriano you probably won't need his power #s and would be pretty crowded at first base.

OrangeShadow
05-18-2007, 07:44 PM
I think beckett could pitch next week if they need him to. but with the huge lead you can afford to take your time. Plu they had to put him on the DL to call up hansack

WABronco
05-18-2007, 07:45 PM
Apparently Hank Blalock is going to have a rib removed, and is going to miss significant time.

That's disgusting. That's extremely disgusting. BBQ time!!

MechanicalBull
05-18-2007, 09:34 PM
Put it in the books Mets win 3-2. They are now 2 in front of ATL and the Yanks are 10 back. If Boston can sweep the Braves this weekend that will help the Mets and hurt the Yanks all at once. :D

SouthStndJunkie
05-18-2007, 09:41 PM
Andrew Miller had a nice first start tonight.

6 IP 4 H 0 ER 3 BB 2 Ks.

WABronco
05-18-2007, 11:01 PM
Ichiro! putting on a clinic on the basepaths tonight, with 3 SB's in 3 innings. He'd have 4 if not for Jose Vidro's worthless ass fouling off a ball with Ichiro halfway to 3rd.

Hogan11
05-18-2007, 11:14 PM
My Boys are coming around...slapping the snot out of the Snakes today 11 - 5.

Hey Slap...you still have LaRoche? He has a .357 average in his last 13 games. Pauly appears to be snapping out of his funk as well.

-Slap-
05-18-2007, 11:53 PM
My Boys are coming around...slapping the snot out of the Snakes today 11 - 5.

Hey Slap...you still have LaRoche? He has a .357 average in his last 13 games. Pauly appears to be snapping out of his funk as well.

I didn't quit him, but I put him down for a little while.

I stuck by Pauly.

Clockwork Orange
05-19-2007, 12:13 AM
Clint Hurdle removes Jeff Francis in the 8th inning when he'd only thrown 74 pitches in the ballgame. If that wasn't bad enough, Manny Corpas comes in and implodes, but naturally there was no one else so much as warming up in the bullpen to stem the tide.

See my sig, I don't know what else to say about the numbskull who runs the Rockies into the ground.

Drek
05-19-2007, 12:17 AM
The good thing is the Sox have 9 game lead on the rest of the division at this point and can afford for him to miss two starts. I am more concerned with the piss poor pitching of Schilling then this injury. Add into thate fact that Drew is hurt and Manny ain't hitting I am surprise how the Sox continue to win. Wouldn't be surprise if there is a trade for some power come late June

Schill's sporting a 3.57 ERA not counting the game yesterday, and thats with his K/9 down at 7.29 (career average of 8.70, hasn't been below 8.06 since 2000). I'd say he's getting the job done, just a few real bad starts have left a sour taste in our mouthes.

And Manny is hitting much better of late, he's got an .899 OPS since the end of April and has only gone hitless in two of 15 games played since then. He started off horrible, but he's showing a pretty quick turnaround.

My biggest concern is what we'll actually get out of Tavarez. He can't be good one start and stink up the place in under 5 innings the next. Thats just enough for Tito to keep sending him out there and wearing out the bullpen every other start if not more. But Lester's on the recovery trail and should potentially save our asses in that area. Hopefully Hansack steps up in his chance here with Beckett missing a pair of starts, giving us a more proven option should Tavarez remain so inconsistent.

Directly behind that is the question regarding Crisp and Pena, can either of them play a quality CF? Crisp can field and run but he's hitting like a school girl. Pena rakes for a CF but is terrifying with the glove (though not as bad in CF as the corners). One of them needs to step up, we can't live with this mediocre production there the whole year.

Other than that, Pedroia's got himself on track real well this month, Lugo has shown some very promising streaks, and Lowell, Youks, and 'Tek are all swinging real well. 'Tiz is a given, so is Manny. Drew's bat has cooled since his hot start but it'll come back around and I'm sure he'll finish with another very good season.

If we can just answer the CF issue and find a 5th starter we'd be looking real good. Tavarez as a long relief/6th starter would be better than most any other team, Paps and Okajima are making a killer 1/2 punch, and I'd think at least one out of Donnelly, Piniero, Timlin, and Rincon can emerge as a third reliable arm. We have bench depth and a deep AAA squad to pull from, should be a good year.

The craziest thing is the Sox are really playing this good. They lead the league in runs score and runs against. Amazing start, I just hope they keep it rolling.

DomCasual
05-19-2007, 12:23 AM
Clint Hurdle removes Jeff Francis in the 8th inning when he'd only thrown 74 pitches in the ballgame. If that wasn't bad enough, Manny Corpas comes in and implodes, but naturally there was no one else so much as warming up in the bullpen to stem the tide.

See my sig, I don't know what else to say about the numbskull who runs the Rockies into the ground.

I'm just so sick of it. I'm to the point that I am now pulling for them to lose, just to see if it will shock someone into doing something. Vague, I know - but I really don't know what I want to see happen. I guess my dream would be for the Monforts to decide that they just can't take it anymore and dump the team. Since that is highly unlikely, my second choice would be for them to decide that they can't take Hurdle anymore, and dump him.

But even that seems unlikely. These people are nothing if they're not cheap. I think they would rather see the team flounder than to eat the completely indefensible extension they just gave him.

I started the season hoping they would break .500. The homer in me even (I am embarrassed to admit) dreamed of them winning 85 - 90 games, and challenging for the playoffs. Now, I don't know what to expect of how low they might sink. 95 losses? 100? Kill me. Kill me now.

Smelvin
05-19-2007, 12:27 AM
Can someone explain to me why on earth the D-Rays would put Elijah Dukes in the leadoff spot? Seriously, every time I watch this kid hit, he's swinging out of his shoes. Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but I thought that lead off men were supposed to try to make contact and get on base, not try to hit a five run homer every at bat.

Dukes is batting leadoff cuz (Rocco is hurt..i know, shocking) and Dukes is the only one of their young phenoms that has any plate discipline...and he has speed. He does swing more for power than he does to get one base, but that's why he's batting leadoff right now.

It's actually more of a product that the other guys are hacks...Crawford would be the best fit, but they got it right and bat their best hitter 3rd.

Dukes is legit and (Crawford aside) will eventually be the best pure hitter of the bunch. He has the best aproach at the plate... it's just that he lacks base running instincts. He can't steal bases. Has awesome speed, but bad instincts. But as a pure hitter...and someone that can go first to third, or first to home on a double, with the abilty to hit for pop, play CF with a strong arm...Dukes is your guy.

If he stays out of jail.

Pendejo
05-19-2007, 01:14 AM
Ichiro! putting on a clinic on the basepaths tonight, with 3 SB's in 3 innings. He'd have 4 if not for Jose Vidro's worthless ass fouling off a ball with Ichiro halfway to 3rd.

Anytime Ichiro gets on first against San Diego...he can take second at will. The Madres pitching staff to a man do not pay attention to base runners. I know Peavy and Wells have picked guys off, but that's the exception to the rule. For the most part they get away with it. Case in point...Ichiro steals 3 bags tonight...yet the Madres stomp Seattle 8-1. The SD staff needs to figure this stuff out though.

I'm looking forward to Sunday...I think it will be Germano Vs. King Felix. The Mariners owned the Madres in Safeco last year...I just want a series win. Maddux is going tomorrow.

TheChamp24
05-19-2007, 01:35 AM
Clint Hurdle removes Jeff Francis in the 8th inning when he'd only thrown 74 pitches in the ballgame. If that wasn't bad enough, Manny Corpas comes in and implodes, but naturally there was no one else so much as warming up in the bullpen to stem the tide.

See my sig, I don't know what else to say about the numbskull who runs the Rockies into the ground.

Idiots, idiots, idiots. You don't remove a pitcher in that situation with 74 pitches thrown in the 8th.
Plus, someone tell the offense to please wake up.

-Slap-
05-19-2007, 01:56 AM
BJ Upton is a great sell high candidate in roto leagues right now. His numbers are outstanding and he's got eligibility at 2B and 3B (and pretty soon OF) in CBS leagues.

I traded him straight up for Clemens a few days ago while he was batting .345. His average is down to .321 now and I expect it to keep dropping. With 51 Ks in 137 ABs, it wouldn't shock me if that BA dropped another 50-100 points in the next few weeks.

In retrospect, I probably could have got more than Rocket for him, but I accepted the deal when it was offered. Now I've got Oswalt/Peavy/Rocket with Nathan in the bully and Pujols/Reyes/Fielder anchoring my offense on that team.

WABronco
05-19-2007, 01:57 AM
Anytime Ichiro gets on first against San Diego...he can take second at will. The Madres pitching staff to a man do not pay attention to base runners. I know Peavy and Wells have picked guys off, but that's the exception to the rule. For the most part they get away with it. Case in point...Ichiro steals 3 bags tonight...yet the Madres stomp Seattle 8-1. The SD staff needs to figure this stuff out though.

I'm looking forward to Sunday...I think it will be Germano Vs. King Felix. The Mariners owned the Madres in Safeco last year...I just want a series win. Maddux is going tomorrow.

Tomorrow is going to be ugly...Seattle's MOTO has been dormant for nearly 3 years now, and Maddux should just carve up guys like Sexson and Ibanez.

Branyan absolutely killed that ball, BTW. That was as squared up as I've ever seen a HR be.

Clockwork Orange
05-19-2007, 01:58 AM
http://www.bestsportsphotos.com/images/PF/05PujolsAlbert01.jpg

He's heating up.... :~ohyah!:

Pendejo
05-19-2007, 02:24 AM
Tomorrow is going to be ugly...Seattle's MOTO has been dormant for nearly 3 years now, and Maddux should just carve up guys like Sexson and Ibanez.

Branyan absolutely killed that ball, BTW. That was as squared up as I've ever seen a HR be.

I don't know about ugly...the Madres' bats are known to go silent at any time.

I heard Branyan's homer called on the radio, but the one he hit last week into the beach in Petco was a shot. About a year ago Pujols cleared the beach and put one in the bleachers. A killer shot...especially for a right handed hitter. Of course the game I went to...Clay Hensley, and the Madres shut the Cardinals down.

(Edit: Just saw the replay of Branyan's blast on madres.com and it was a no doubter. "He's a dude who hits bombs.")

Clockwork Orange
05-19-2007, 10:36 PM
Brandon Phillips has been an amazing value player in roto this season. I nabbed him in the 16th round of one draft, at the thin 2B position no less, and he's performed like a guy who should have been drafted about 10 rounds higher.

He extended his hitting streak to 20 games tonight, raised his average above .290, hit his 7th HR, drove in his 24th run, scored his 24th run and has 8 SB's.

http://images.google.com/url?q=http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/2006/06/21/kg7VWuIY.jpg&usg=AFrqEzdopHhtyZhbSUpRNppiffKalwgb7Q

Good on ya', Brandon. :~ohyah!:

WABronco
05-19-2007, 11:08 PM
Where am I? Am I in some crazy dream world or something? Is Greg Maddux really getting shelled by the Seattle Mariners?

It's funny how lineup changes can jack up an offense for a night or two. Getting the slugs out of the order doesn't hurt.

Jose Guillen is FO' REAL!!!

Smelvin
05-20-2007, 02:56 AM
Can someone please explain why the M's passed on Tim Lincecum? He is a local product, a fan favorite...wicked stuff. I know Morrow is a nice prospect as well, but from what I read, they are worlds apart.

-Slap-
05-20-2007, 03:40 AM
Can someone please explain why the M's passed on Tim Lincecum? He is a local product, a fan favorite...wicked stuff. I know Morrow is a nice prospect as well, but from what I read, they are worlds apart.

Some organizations won't even scout a pitcher unless he's over six foot tall. More Oswalts for everybody else, I guess.

Smelvin
05-20-2007, 12:28 PM
Some organizations won't even scout a pitcher unless he's over six foot tall. More Oswalts for everybody else, I guess.

And using history as evidence...they might be smart. You know my thoughts on pitchers with smaller frames and their likelihood of injury.

I'll be suurprised if Rich Harden makes more than 10 starts this year. He is very close to officially being the AL's Mark Prior. Total bummer, cuz he should have a few Cy Youngs in that arm.

My guess is IF he comes back and makes a few starts, he's dealt to NYM for Milledge and one of Heilman/Humber/Pelfrey.

WABronco
05-20-2007, 01:02 PM
Can someone please explain why the M's passed on Tim Lincecum? He is a local product, a fan favorite...

That's why I thought it was pretty much in the bag.

Long story short, the M's looked at Morrow as a quick-sign, fast-riser. They viewed Lincecum as too much of a gamble for a team in desperate need of a young pitcher.

I think they're doing their best to mess it all up though...rushing Morrow to the big league pen and burning development time. He's good, all right, but is he worth a no. 5 pick if he's morphed into a late inning reliever?

All in all, they did pull 3 excellent pitchers out of that draft, so I'm not too disappointed.

27atwater
05-20-2007, 01:55 PM
Brandon Phillips has been an amazing value player in roto this season. I nabbed him in the 16th round of one draft, at the thin 2B position no less, and he's performed like a guy who should have been drafted about 10 rounds higher.

He extended his hitting streak to 20 games tonight, raised his average above .290, hit his 7th HR, drove in his 24th run, scored his 24th run and has 8 SB's.

http://images.google.com/url?q=http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/2006/06/21/kg7VWuIY.jpg&usg=AFrqEzdopHhtyZhbSUpRNppiffKalwgb7Q

Good on ya', Brandon. :~ohyah!:

I watched him quite a bit when he was w/ AA Harrisburg (Expos/nationals). Kid was a stud for the Senators. Glad to see he's finally getting it together after that disaster in Cleveland.

27atwater
05-20-2007, 01:56 PM
Let's Go Mets!

-Slap-
05-20-2007, 02:18 PM
And using history as evidence...they might be smart. You know my thoughts on pitchers with smaller frames and their likelihood of injury.

I'll be suurprised if Rich Harden makes more than 10 starts this year. He is very close to officially being the AL's Mark Prior. Total bummer, cuz he should have a few Cy Youngs in that arm.

My guess is IF he comes back and makes a few starts, he's dealt to NYM for Milledge and one of Heilman/Humber/Pelfrey.

You know my thoughts on athletes and my willingness to give a guy a fair shot. One pitcher could look like a Greek God and have perfect mechanics and still be a basket case like Prior. Another pitcher could look like a clubhouse attendant and be a first ballot Hall of Famer like Pedro.

I'll bring in every Roy Oswalt I can find and let my competitors sign the Sidney Ponsons.

Bronco LB 59
05-20-2007, 03:30 PM
Interesting article. MLB's 50 most valuable properties.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/05/07/bp.ufd.first/index.html

Bronco LB 59
05-20-2007, 04:11 PM
FANTASY CLOSER REPORT

Chicago Sun Times reports Lou Piniella is close to naming Carlos Marmol as the team's closer to replace the struggling Ryan Dempster.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/393699,CST-SPT-csep20.article

azbroncfan
05-20-2007, 06:20 PM
AROD has sure cooled off. Maybe they should call him MR APRIL.

WABronco
05-20-2007, 06:41 PM
Mike "Human Brain Delay" Hargrove F's it up again in the 8th. He PH's for a guy who's probably hitting .500 and leaves Willie F. Bloomquist in to hit when he has proven to be a worse hitter than your average NL pitcher (that's no joke, it's been statistically proven). BRILLIANT!

Pendejo
05-20-2007, 07:03 PM
After giving up back to back singles to start the bottom of the ninth...Hoffman retires the next three batters to give the Madres the game, and 2 out of three in the series. Justin Germano bested Felix Hernandez today.

Clockwork Orange
05-20-2007, 07:32 PM
King Felix is pitching like Scott Kazmir right now.

Clockwork Orange
05-20-2007, 07:45 PM
Wow, Andruw Jones managed to strike out swinging 5 times today.

Ugly.

Pendejo
05-20-2007, 07:52 PM
Wow, Andruw Jones managed to strike out swinging 5 times today.

Ugly.

Someone give the man his "golden sombrero"!

*I think 4 k's is silver, and 5 gets you the gold.

Jack Clark was the king of the Mexican hat dance.

Drek
05-20-2007, 07:55 PM
AROD has sure cooled off. Maybe they should call him MR APRIL.

We Red Sox fans have been calling him that for over two years now.

Sox get another win, this time off a nice start by Kason Gabbard, young lefty with some skills. Nice to see, I hope he gets the next fill in start for Beckett. He's pretty clearly leapfrogged Hansack.

Clockwork Orange
05-20-2007, 07:55 PM
Someone give the man his "golden sombrero"!

*I think 4 k's is silver, and 5 gets you the gold.

Jack Clark was the king of the Mexican hat dance.

I remember once when the Rockies had Larry Walker playing at 1st base against the D-Backs, he struck out three times and Mark Grace wrote "Hat Trick" in the dirt for Walker to find when he came back out for the next inning.

WABronco
05-20-2007, 08:51 PM
King Felix is pitching like Scott Kazmir right now.

Meh, he's been rusty for two starts.

Hogan11
05-20-2007, 09:06 PM
Maholm was ugly again today....Tracy says there's no thought about sending him to Armas land but how much more is he willing to put up with?

I'm getting so sick of these "so much promise, so little return" guys.

27atwater
05-20-2007, 10:35 PM
Pirates F-ing suck. I keep wanting to go to a game, but...why?

azbroncfan
05-21-2007, 12:06 AM
We Red Sox fans have been calling him that for over two years now.

Sox get another win, this time off a nice start by Kason Gabbard, young lefty with some skills. Nice to see, I hope he gets the next fill in start for Beckett. He's pretty clearly leapfrogged Hansack.


You guys are just bitter that the Yankees stole him at the last minute.

Clockwork Orange
05-21-2007, 12:59 AM
I have to say this, Michael Young can kiss my ass right in the crack. The Rangers plated 14 runs today and that bastard somehow managed to go 0-6.

Right there, buddy.

-Slap-
05-21-2007, 02:15 AM
The frigging guy is carrying that huge new contract up to the plate with him in every at bat.

Taco John
05-21-2007, 02:20 AM
BJ Upton is a great sell high candidate in roto leagues right now. His numbers are outstanding and he's got eligibility at 2B and 3B (and pretty soon OF) in CBS leagues.

I traded him straight up for Clemens a few days ago while he was batting .345. His average is down to .321 now and I expect it to keep dropping. With 51 Ks in 137 ABs, it wouldn't shock me if that BA dropped another 50-100 points in the next few weeks.

In retrospect, I probably could have got more than Rocket for him, but I accepted the deal when it was offered. Now I've got Oswalt/Peavy/Rocket with Nathan in the bully and Pujols/Reyes/Fielder anchoring my offense on that team.


Today I offered BJ Upton and Chipper Jones for David Wright and Roger Clemens. Unfortunately, I was out all weekend, and made the offer AFTER Wright went off.

Hogan11
05-21-2007, 07:46 AM
Pirates F-ing suck. I keep wanting to go to a game, but...why?

They're my team so I support them no matter what.

You're a Met fan right? Then I have a big reason for you to go, especially when your large market boys are in town...affordability. You have a beautiful park there (best in the league IMHO) and a ticket price signifigantly cheaper than what you'll find in NYC (or pretty much anywhere really). For example: I have seats right behind home plate @ PNC against Wegmans (sorry, I mean the Nationals) and the cost for one of those seats won't even get you a bleacher seat @ Yankee Stadium (which I also have seats for over Labour Day Weekend against the Rays or Mariners...maybe both, not sure at the moment). I have Rox tickets against the Dodgers when I'm in Denver in September, 1B line a bit back from the field and they cost more than what it would cost me to be behind home plate @ PNC for one game.

If you're a local and you like baseball, the cost alone should have you going out to check out various teams coming thru town whether you're a Pirates fan or not....that's a very cheap ticket by MLB standards.

Drek
05-21-2007, 09:36 AM
You guys are just bitter that the Yankees stole him at the last minute.

Yeah, thankfully we have these to console us:

http://blog.sportscolumn.com/images/storyimages/redsoxring.jpg

ARod disappearing the final four games of the '04 ALCS was a big part of it too, I'm quite happy he's in New York, playing a mediocre 3B while Jeter plays an equally mediocre SS next to him. Nothing like moving gold glove talent out of position for lesser players when you're trying to build a winner.

elsid13
05-21-2007, 09:49 AM
We Red Sox fans have been calling him that for over two years now.

Sox get another win, this time off a nice start by Kason Gabbard, young lefty with some skills. Nice to see, I hope he gets the next fill in start for Beckett. He's pretty clearly leapfrogged Hansack.

Hansack looks like he struggling to live up to the off season hype that Nation was giving to him. He looks to tense on the mound right now.

Nice to take two out of three from the Braves. Especial when you trot out two rookies.

Bring on the Yanks, it would be nice to take 2 out 3 from them.

Drek
05-21-2007, 11:51 AM
Hansack looks like he struggling to live up to the off season hype that Nation was giving to him. He looks to tense on the mound right now.

Nice to take two out of three from the Braves. Especial when you trot out two rookies.

Bring on the Yanks, it would be nice to take 2 out 3 from them.

Hansack just didn't stick with what got him the off-season hype in the first place. All through ST and for most of his time in Pawtucket he's thrown strikes. As soon as he gets to the show he starts nibbling. I know he doesn't have white hot stuff he can blow by people but thats no excuse for being afraid to throw strikes. I just backs himself into a corner too often, that won't work against MLB level hitting.

Doesn't matter though, Smoltz was dealing Saturday night.

I like Gabbard though. He comes at guys and isn't afraid to throw breaking pitches for strikes. Not that old either, he should have a solid career. He reminds me of a lefty throwing Arroyo with a little better control but not quite the stuff.

For you Rockies fans, I heard recently that the Tigers and Rangers are also kicking the tires on a Helton trade. If they can get a few more teams into the pool they could see a worthwhile return. I'd imagine the Yankees and Angels would jump in too.

NYY could be real likely if they can prove Giambi used 'roids at all post-contract. Word is if they can manage that they'll cut him loose. If they get in the Rockies could potentially see a few decent prospects without having to pick up much of Helton's tab.

All depends where Helton would approve a trade to though.

sixtimeseight
05-21-2007, 12:45 PM
Yeah, thankfully we have these to console us:

http://blog.sportscolumn.com/images/storyimages/redsoxring.jpg

ARod disappearing the final four games of the '04 ALCS was a big part of it too, I'm quite happy he's in New York, playing a mediocre 3B while Jeter plays an equally mediocre SS next to him. Nothing like moving gold glove talent out of position for lesser players when you're trying to build a winner.

hahahah.... I'm pretty sure the Yankees have about 26 of those to console themselves. Red Sox trolls, gotta love 'em!

Clockwork Orange
05-21-2007, 10:01 PM
Brad Hawpe hits his 3rd HR off of Brandon Webb in a week.

Hawpe has 5 bombs all this season and 3 of them are off of the defending NL Cy Young winner. It's a strange game sometimes.

Drek
05-21-2007, 10:11 PM
hahahah.... I'm pretty sure the Yankees have about 26 of those to console themselves. Red Sox trolls, gotta love 'em!

It was a response to someone saying we were just bitter over not having him, despite winning the WS his first year in the AL East. Not trolling, legit response, though its nice to see you play the always persecuted Yankees fan to a 'T'. "People hate us 'cause we win, wah wah wah!"

-Slap-
05-21-2007, 10:13 PM
If I was Webb, my next pitch to Hawpe would be right at his Adam's apple.

Clockwork Orange
05-21-2007, 10:29 PM
If I was Webb, my next pitch to Hawpe would be right at his Adam's apple.

Nope, walked him. ;D

27atwater
05-21-2007, 10:31 PM
They're my team so I support them no matter what.

You're a Met fan right? Then I have a big reason for you to go, especially when your large market boys are in town...affordability. You have a beautiful park there (best in the league IMHO) and a ticket price signifigantly cheaper than what you'll find in NYC (or pretty much anywhere really). For example: I have seats right behind home plate @ PNC against Wegmans (sorry, I mean the Nationals) and the cost for one of those seats won't even get you a bleacher seat @ Yankee Stadium (which I also have seats for over Labour Day Weekend against the Rays or Mariners...maybe both, not sure at the moment). I have Rox tickets against the Dodgers when I'm in Denver in September, 1B line a bit back from the field and they cost more than what it would cost me to be behind home plate @ PNC for one game.

If you're a local and you like baseball, the cost alone should have you going out to check out various teams coming thru town whether you're a Pirates fan or not....that's a very cheap ticket by MLB standards.


i'm going to all 3 in August...ya better believe it. I'm a Mets fann, but I like the Buccos. I still remember the season they ALMOSt went to the playoffs w/ a .500 record but just lost the division to Houston. That was 97 or 98. the year that the 2 pitchers combined for a no-no. they had pre-crazy jose guillen, tony womack, Dave Sveum and many more. I went to about 15 games that year. I sold a bunch of Indians fans some of the cheap seats using my giant eagle Advantage card. I madwe a killing. got em 1/2 off and sold em for face.

I hate clev, but do think the jake is the best park in the country.

sixtimeseight
05-22-2007, 12:22 AM
It was a response to someone saying we were just bitter over not having him, despite winning the WS his first year in the AL East. Not trolling, legit response, though its nice to see you play the always persecuted Yankees fan to a 'T'. "People hate us 'cause we win, wah wah wah!"

I'm not a Yankees fan. But it's nice to see you play the always smug Red Sox fan to a 'T'. "LOOK AT US WE HAVE A WORLD SERIES RING BOW DOWN TO THE MIGHTY RED SOX DID I MENTION WE WON THE WORLD SERIES ONCE"

PatsWin2002
05-22-2007, 02:19 AM
I'm not a Yankees fan. But it's nice to see you play the always smug Red Sox fan to a 'T'. "LOOK AT US WE HAVE A WORLD SERIES RING BOW DOWN TO THE MIGHTY RED SOX DID I MENTION WE WON THE WORLD SERIES ONCE"

We have 6 championships.

Now you may bow down.......

-Slap-
05-22-2007, 02:31 AM
We have 6 championships.

Now you may bow down.......

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/5827/chapteronepixya1.jpg

PatsWin2002
05-22-2007, 02:36 AM
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/5827/chapteronepixya1.jpg

Very nice. Looks like the guy in my 1915 WS program. :)

BTW, Slappy, I just got home from 3 days in Vegas....my first time. Man, is it HOT out there. I don't know how people can live there year round!

Now I'm home waiting for the heat to kick on. :)

I'm just happy I won $500 playing craps and walked away.

-Slap-
05-22-2007, 02:43 AM
Very nice. Looks like the guy in my 1915 WS program. :)

BTW, Slappy, I just got home from 3 days in Vegas....my first time. Man, is it HOT out there. I don't know how people can live there year round!

Now I'm home waiting for the heat to kick on. :)

I'm just happy I won $500 playing craps and walked away.

Congrats on the winnings. I'm glad you had a nice trip.

I'm actually enjoying the weather right now. Anything under 100 feels pretty comfortable after you've lived here for a few summers. The last two years, we've had horrible Julys and unseasonably pleasant Augusts. I really don't find the intensity of the summers as hard to deal with as their seemingly endless duration. Some years we'll see almost 200 straight days over 90 degrees and that really sucks.

PatsWin2002
05-22-2007, 02:47 AM
Congrats on the winnings. I'm glad you had a nice trip.

I'm actually enjoying the weather right now. Anything under 100 feels pretty comfortable after you've lived here for a few summers. The last two years, we've had horrible Julys and unseasonably pleasant Augusts. I really don't find the intensity of the summers as hard to deal with as their seemingly endless duration. Some years we'll see almost 200 straight days over 90 degrees and that really sucks.

I now know what they mean by a "dry heat". I would take 103 in Vegas over 92 and muggy here or in Miami. It's about 50 here now and it's good to be home. I guess it's all what you're accustomed to.

I would definitely go back, though. :)

Pendejo
05-22-2007, 03:34 AM
Very nice. Looks like the guy in my 1915 WS program. :)


That sounds like a pretty cool piece of memorabilia.

Hogan11
05-22-2007, 11:50 AM
I hate clev, but do think the jake is the best park in the country.

I like Cleveland the city a lot actually...but I'm rather indifferent to the American League as a whole.

As far as the Jake goes...yeah, it's a beautiful park, but out of the ones I've been to thus far, I'd rank Coors and especially PNC ahead of it.

Drek
05-22-2007, 12:44 PM
I'm not a Yankees fan. But it's nice to see you play the always smug Red Sox fan to a 'T'. "LOOK AT US WE HAVE A WORLD SERIES RING BOW DOWN TO THE MIGHTY RED SOX DID I MENTION WE WON THE WORLD SERIES ONCE"

Six WS actually, as PatsWin pointed out, and go take a look over those old Yankees championship teams. They weren't built on farm development but on horrible mismanagement by then Red Sox ownership. Its the seedy history of baseball now long since past, a scandal easily comparable to the Chicago Black Sox, but with a much larger legacy.

And I wasn't saying you were a Yankee fan, just that you seemed more than willing to play the defensive role of the average NYY fan, jumping into a discussion half cocked not even knowing what I was responding to.