Baltimore to release Jamal Lewis?

[Taco John]

Ravens | J. Lewis to be released
Thu, 15 Feb 2007 08:52:02 -0800Jamison Hensley, of the Baltimore Sun, reports the Baltimore Ravens are expected to release RB Jamal Lewis before he is due a $5 million roster bonus in March. If the Ravens cut Lewis, they are expected to save $3.3 million in salary cap room.

[ludo21]

nooooo

[Requiem]

omnnan

[cpad007]

Anyone want him? I'm not sure Denver should go after him...he hasn't done squat in 3 years but it all could depend on his asking price and perhaps a change of scenery might do him good? Hmmm.....

[bronco militia]

so much for going after Adalius Thomas

[Crushaholic]

If Baltimore had stuck with Mike Anderson, they might have won that game. We were handling Jamal pretty well, but the Marine presented problems for us in the short time he was in the game...

[footstepsfrom#27]

In the Shanahan era Denver has never used a running back from another team, either by trade or via free agency, at least not one with 7 years in another system (Ruben). Lewis, even IF he's got anything left, would need to learn a completely different way to run the ball, changing habits he's utilized since pop warner days. That's a tall order for anyone.

No to Lewis and any other RB from free agency. Let's either get totally serious about drafting a stud runner (Peterson), or bite the bullet and wait another year till 2008, when the college crop is expected to be much better. Unless we're prepared to pay a heavy premium for Peterson, this offseason ought to be about fixing our O-line holes and finding at least 1 guy who can eat space in the middle of the defensive line. If we use free agency dollars at all, I want them used on one of those problems, not spent on a position where success in our system is achieved with a different skill set than 90% of the rest of the league. Let's take a shot at another Bobby Turner special deep in the draft but if that fails, then let's at least run with a better O-line and the same backs.

[jtomm]

he's D-O-N-E

[Rascal]

In the Shanahan era Denver has never used a running back from another team, either by trade or via free agency, at least not one with 7 years in another system (Ruben). Lewis, even IF he's got anything left, would need to learn a completely different way to run the ball, changing habits he's utilized since pop warner days. That's a tall order for anyone.

And that matters why?

It's no secret that last year Denver made a huge effort to sign him, but he turned it down to sign for a lesser deal with Baltimore.

[Clockwork Orange]

I'd take him for one year only. Let him hold the job for the season and draft a RB out of the '08 class, which should be much stronger than this years group.

[Florida_Bronco]

In the Shanahan era Denver has never used a running back from another team, either by trade or via free agency, at least not one with 7 years in another system (Ruben). Lewis, even IF he's got anything left, would need to learn a completely different way to run the ball, changing habits he's utilized since pop warner days. That's a tall order for anyone.

No to Lewis and any other RB from free agency. Let's either get totally serious about drafting a stud runner (Peterson), or bite the bullet and wait another year till 2008, when the college crop is expected to be much better. Unless we're prepared to pay a heavy premium for Peterson, this offseason ought to be about fixing our O-line holes and finding at least 1 guy who can eat space in the middle of the defensive line. If we use free agency dollars at all, I want them used on one of those problems, not spent on a position where success in our system is achieved with a different skill set than 90% of the rest of the league. Let's take a shot at another Bobby Turner special deep in the draft but if that fails, then let's at least run with a better O-line and the same backs.

What O-line holes do we have to fill? ??? Look dude, I know you think that George Foster is the anti-christ, but despite his terrible season he's still been pretty solid since he's been with Denver, so you might as well accept the fact that he's gonna be here for at least 1 more year. Even if Foster doesn't turn it around, we still have 2 options already on the roster.

The chances of Denver getting Peterson are about 1 in 2 million, so you might as well forget that too. IMO, the smart move in the draft is going D-line in the 1st (if we haven't addressed it through FA) and then moving up into the 2nd round and getting Michael Bush. After that, we can draft for depth and eventual replacements for players who might be retiring in the coming years.

[Clockwork Orange]

And that matters why?

It's no secret that last year Denver made a huge effort to sign him, but he turned it down to sign for a lesser deal with Baltimore.

Actually, that's not the way it happened. He was getting ready to visit Denver when Baltimore met his asking price. He never even made it to town, so the Broncos never actually made him an offer.

[Rascal]

Actually, that's not the way it happened. He was getting ready to visit Denver when Baltimore met his asking price. He never even made it to town, so the Broncos never actually made him an offer.

I remember it being the way I described, but it doesn't matter. Fact is Denver actively tried to bring in a "stud" FA RB.

[watermock]

No! He's about as fast as a dying slug.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Does he come with international coke connections?

[HEAV]

And that matters why?

It's no secret that last year Denver made a huge effort to sign him, but he turned it down to sign for a lesser deal with Baltimore.

Yup Yup.

Shanny thought he had Jamal in the bag. But the numb-skull decided that the Ravens had a better shot at winning....... Damn he was correct.

But I'm sure with Jay/Walker here and the fact that the Ravens have dumped him, Jamal would be more open to playing in Denver in 2007.

That is if someone else doesn't raise the price.....

[Atlas]

If he still has anything left he would be a perfect fit for Denver's system. When I watched him last year to me he looked slow to the hole. I remember watching Anderson come in and he hit the holes hard and lewis just looked old.

[Taco John]

I think the fact that we tried to bring him in last year for a visit is at least relevant, considering that we don't seem to be settled on either of the Bells.

I don't know what to think of this idea. I can't say that I believe in either Mike or Tatum. And personally, I'd rather see us put a priority on nabbing a Howard Griffith style fullback who can block like hell and provide a third down receiving threat out of the back field, not to mention pound the ball in short yardage situations. I think a lot of our running problems would take care of themselves if we had this kind of a fullback, particularly as it pertains to Tatum, who has got the burners once he is sprung (forgetting for the moment about his bone-headed fumbles).

If we're not going to get a fullback, then I guess I'm in favor of giving Jamal Lewis a look... at the right price. And definitely not a long term deal. A one year evaluation sounds about right, though I doubt he'd agree to that. Perhaps a three year with a March roster bonus that he'll never see unless he's all that.

I am still interested in the Ricky Williams situation. I think Ricky would be a better fit for us than Jamal.

I'd rather draft AD than any of these options, but realistically, I don't see it happening.

[elsid13]

I think the fact that we tried to bring him in last year for a visit is at least relevant, considering that we don't seem to be settled on either of the Bells.

I don't know what to think of this idea. I can't say that I believe in either Mike or Tatum. And personally, I'd rather see us put a priority on nabbing a Howard Griffith style fullback who can block like hell and provide a third down receiving threat out of the back field, not to mention pound the ball in short yardage situations. I think a lot of our running problems would take care of themselves if we had this kind of a fullback, particularly as it pertains to Tatum, who has got the burners once he is sprung (forgetting for the moment about his bone-headed fumbles).

If we're not going to get a fullback, then I guess I'm in favor of giving Jamal Lewis a look... at the right price. And definitely not a long term deal. A one year evaluation sounds about right, though I doubt he'd agree to that. Perhaps a three year with a March roster bonus that he'll never see unless he's all that.

I am still interested in the Ricky Williams situation. I think Ricky would be a better fit for us than Jamal.

I'd rather draft AD than any of these options, but realistically, I don't see it happening.


We not going to see a Griffen style FB, Dinger wants to run more 3 WR sets that means less playing time for the FB. As much as I wish we had the 1996 to 1998 offense, the play book is changing and we all need to understand that.


I actually think that Shanahan was willing to let Anderson go, because he thought that Lelie, Walker and Smith in the 3 WR sets would open up the running lanes for TBell to run against on opponents nickle defense. When Lelie decide to act like a 3 year old, it screwed up the offense design for this year.

[ukbroncosfan]

I'd take him for one year only. Let him hold the job for the season and draft a RB out of the '08 class, which should be much stronger than this years group.

I agree. Bring in Jamal Lewis as a stop gap. As I said in another thread there is a big drop off in talent after Peterson and Lynch in the 2007 draft at the RB position.

[cabronco]

If we cant manage a deal for AP, imo is unlikely, the rest of the Rb class doesnt seem that great. Knowing that, I would like to bring in J. Lewis for a year to see if he can help with our run game , especially punching it in, in the red zone ( see SF game). Focus the other draft needs this year, DL & whatever, and wait for 08 to get a young stud RB.

[footstepsfrom#27]

What O-line holes do we have to fill? ???
All of them. We have question marks at every position. Lepsis is aging and hurt, so we don't know if he returns how effective he'll be. Hamilton gets blown up on pass protection, Nails is almost done now, and not the player he used to be, Carlyle, who I'm not a big fan of anyway, might not even stay here, and Kuper has no experience. Foster's the worst starting OT in the NFL and has done nothing to deserve a roster spot. Pears is a decent, not great, performer who suprised but is the the real answer? Questionable at this point.
The chances of Denver getting Peterson are about 1 in 2 million, so you might as well forget that too. IMO, the smart move in the draft is going D-line in the 1st (if we haven't addressed it through FA) and then moving up into the 2nd round and getting Michael Bush. After that, we can draft for depth and eventual replacements for players who might be retiring in the coming years.
D-line department would be my second choice, but protecting Cutler's future health should be the top priority IMO, and right now our line can barely protect a scrambler like Plummer, let alone a guy like Cutler, who is more of a pocket passer. Jay can run some too, but do we really want him to have to do so for pure survival? O-linemen take longer to develop, so the sooner we draft them, the sooner they'll be good. Waiting till the 2nd round might be OK, but unless we get a very good D-line guy in the first (and Shanny almost never takes D-line guys in the 1st round) there's no other priority that deserves as much attention as the offensive line.

[Killericon]

If we had a bunch of Cap Room, I'd say yes, but we're tight.

[TheChamp24]

All of them. We have question marks at every position. Lepsis is aging and hurt, so we don't know if he returns how effective he'll be. Hamilton gets blown up on pass protection, Nails is almost done now, and not the player he used to be, Carlyle, who I'm not a big fan of anyway, might not even stay here, and Kuper has no experience. Foster's the worst starting OT in the NFL and has done nothing to deserve a roster spot. Pears is a decent, not great, performer who suprised but is the the real answer? Questionable at this point.

D-line department would be my second choice, but protecting Cutler's future health should be the top priority IMO, and right now our line can barely protect a scrambler like Plummer, let alone a guy like Cutler, who is more of a pocket passer. Jay can run some too, but do we really want him to have to do so for pure survival? O-linemen take longer to develop, so the sooner we draft them, the sooner they'll be good. Waiting till the 2nd round might be OK, but unless we get a very good D-line guy in the first (and Shanny almost never takes D-line guys in the 1st round) there's no other priority that deserves as much attention as the offensive line.

By your assessment, our OL is in complete shambles. That is not true. And Jamal would not have to learn how to run in a new system. Baltimore has a similar running style to the Broncos, plus, it wouldn't be THAT hard for Jamal to learn to run, find the hole, cut, and run. It just seems like you are hell bent against him, and think our OL is the worst in the NFL.

[Florida_Bronco]

All of them. We have question marks at every position. Lepsis is aging and hurt, so we don't know if he returns how effective he'll be. Hamilton gets blown up on pass protection, Nails is almost done now, and not the player he used to be, Carlyle, who I'm not a big fan of anyway, might not even stay here, and Kuper has no experience. Foster's the worst starting OT in the NFL and has done nothing to deserve a roster spot. Pears is a decent, not great, performer who suprised but is the the real answer? Questionable at this point.

Lepsis is hurt, but he's still got a few years left. Hamilton doesn't get "blown up" in pass protection either. Nalen is probably gonna give us 1 more year, and Carlisle is a very solid player whether you like him or not. Foster has done nothing to deserve a roster spot? Are you crazy? ??? He definetly played like crap this year, but it doesn't take away 2 solid years of starting for us. You don't just get rid of players like that. Pears did rather well at LT and is a more natural fit at RT, plus we still have Adam Meadows.


D-line department would be my second choice, but protecting Cutler's future health should be the top priority IMO, and right now our line can barely protect a scrambler like Plummer, let alone a guy like Cutler, who is more of a pocket passer. Jay can run some too, but do we really want him to have to do so for pure survival? O-linemen take longer to develop, so the sooner we draft them, the sooner they'll be good. Waiting till the 2nd round might be OK, but unless we get a very good D-line guy in the first (and Shanny almost never takes D-line guys in the 1st round) there's no other priority that deserves as much attention as the offensive line.

I don't see the logic in going after an offensive linemen when we already have several young players we are developing and no rookie would be any more guranteed to produce for us than they will.

[Broncos4Life]

In the Shanahan era Denver has never used a running back from another team, either by trade or via free agency, at least not one with 7 years in another system (Ruben). Lewis, even IF he's got anything left, would need to learn a completely different way to run the ball, changing habits he's utilized since pop warner days. That's a tall order for anyone.


What about Garrison Hearst? Don't no how many years in SF system he had, but dude was pretty decent. Even if he had a reduced roll. I think he should have had more carries for the time he played for us. Saying that I am against bringing in Lewis. I don't think hes that great and hes definately on the downsid of his career. Shanny won't bring this guy in. Mark my words.

[footstepsfrom#27]

By your assessment, our OL is in complete shambles. That is not true.
The loss of a single player (Lepsis) caused huge problems last year. We were not able to more the chains like we used to. Even with Lepsis, this line is in the bottom half of the league. Without him, it's worse.
And Jamal would not have to learn how to run in a new system. Baltimore has a similar running style to the Broncos, plus, it wouldn't be THAT hard for Jamal to learn to run, find the hole, cut, and run. It just seems like you are hell bent against him, and think our OL is the worst in the NFL.
Baltimore has a similar style running game? Hardly. Baltimore's line averages 323 lbs per man, and Denver's best line (with Lepsis and Meadows) goes 288...with Foster 297 per man...23-35 pounds difference. Baltimore does not run a stretch zone, so how is it you think they run a similar system? In the last two seasons Lewis has posted ypc averages of 3.4 and 3.6 running behind that huge power blocking line. What do you think he'd do behind our pigmies?

Anderson was shipped because he's lost a step, so why bring in Lewis, who is probaly slower yet and never run in this system?

[rovolution]

Shanny won't bring this guy in. Mark my words.

I would not be too sure about that. Shanahan almost had him signed last year till Newsome offered Jamal a cap friendly deal to return to Baltimore.

Hate it or love it, I think Lewis will be a Bronco come F.A. Shanahan wanted him last time, and he will probably get him this time.

[Broncoman13]

1) Jamal Lewis looked slow this year but that's obviously b/c of the bone spurs (just had surgery) and not b/c he doesn't still have the wheels. He was a sub 4.4 guy at 230 lbs. People want a big RB that can break tackles but are afraid to let Jamal be that guy... I don't understand it.
2) Our OLine isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Foster is far from the worst starting OT in the league. Sure, he had a poor season, but nothing has changed in terms of him having the ability to be a good (not great) OT in the league. Our line wasn't bad (save for the Rams game) when Lepsis was in the line up. Will he come back strong... anybody's guess. That's the key to our OL. If he comes back the continuity and the overall grade goes up ten-fold.
3) Whoever said that it would be a good idea to draft a DLineman in the first and then move up for Michael Bush in the 2nd needs to have their head examined. Mainly b/c I agree 100% and I'm not completely sane... I don't think.
4) I'll give you 3 other options for a RB that haven't been discussed too much on the Mane. TJ kind of brought it up eariler so I'll start with Ricky Williams first. I like the idea b/c he would come fairly cheap. I think the Dolphins would probably be happy to take a 5th rounder for him. He would also be fairly cheap in terms of his contract. Second option, Fred Taylor. He won't come as cheap as Ricky Williams. The Jags would probably be intrigued with a trade involving Jake Plummer. I think Fred Taylor has two or three good years left. On a per season basis he's actually played more games than either Clinton Portis or Tatum Bell so the injury concerns are not quite as bad as some make them out to be. With Jones coming back and the dynamic Jones-Drew on the scene the Jags will look to move Taylor who wants a decent sized contract. Last but not least is Michael Turner. I know there are some people here that are probably saying that there's no way he's worth a first round pick. Plus, it's unlikely that we would trade with SD to begin with. But, I think it's possible that we work a deal similar to the Lelie deal or Abraham deal last year. Something like the Jets send their first to the Chargers for Turner. We then send Tatum Bell and our high third (maybe even 2nd) to the Jets for Michael Turner. I like the final option the best. It allows us to still address the DLine in the first and gives us a RB in round 2 or perhaps even round 3 that is young, fast, and big. He's far better than anyone that will be available in the 2nd round at RB. Of course he'll cost a lot more, but it won't be any more than Jamal Lewis or Fred Taylor would cost. His youth is the key!

[footstepsfrom#27]

What about Garrison Hearst? Don't no how many years in SF system he had, but dude was pretty decent. Even if he had a reduced roll. I think he should have had more carries for the time he played for us.
He had 20 carries for us.

[cutthemdown]

Hearst did absolutly nothing. I thought in playoff game that Lewis looked pretty quick and was showing some nice power and speed. he had only like 12 carries but got 50 plus yards and also took a couple dump passes for another 25. On a couple carries he really looked explosive. I really think he would be perfect for Broncos. Sign Lewis, keep Mike Bell, trade Tatum Bell, and then draft a young running back that fits the system.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I would not be too sure about that. Shanahan almost had him signed last year till Newsome offered Jamal a cap friendly deal to return to Baltimore.


A cap-friendly deal? He was a Bronco until the Ravens ponied up a deal that even Lewis thought he had no chance of being offered.

[footstepsfrom#27]

1) Jamal Lewis looked slow this year but that's obviously b/c of the bone spurs (just had surgery) and not b/c he doesn't still have the wheels. He was a sub 4.4 guy at 230 lbs.
I don't think Lewis ever ran under 4.4, but I'm sure he doesn't now, so the point is irrelavent. He's got to many miles and has worn down the last 2 years. He doesn't fit our system and to top it off has character issues too. I want him almost as much as I'd want Ricky Williams...not at all.
People want a big RB that can break tackles but are afraid to let Jamal be that guy... I don't understand it.
What's not to understand...he's a 3.6 ypc back with to many miles on the odometer running in a power run blocking system...not a good fit.
Our OLine isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Foster is far from the worst starting OT in the league.
Who is clearly worse? If you want to say Gallery...for the sake of argument I'll buy that...so he's the 2nd worst. Foster flat out stold money last year. I didn't even see effort on his part. He's horrible.
I'll give you 3 other options for a RB that haven't been discussed too much on the Mane. TJ kind of brought it up eariler so I'll start with Ricky Williams first. I like the idea b/c he would come fairly cheap. I think the Dolphins would probably be happy to take a 5th rounder for him. He would also be fairly cheap in terms of his contract.
Back to this again? Druggie, quitter, head case...pass.
Second option, Fred Taylor. He won't come as cheap as Ricky Williams. The Jags would probably be intrigued with a trade involving Jake Plummer.
Why is that?
I think Fred Taylor has two or three good years left.
On a per season basis he's actually played more games than either Clinton Portis or Tatum Bell so the injury concerns are not quite as bad as some make them out to be. With Jones coming back and the dynamic Jones-Drew on the scene the Jags will look to move Taylor who wants a decent sized contract. Last but not least is Michael Turner. I know there are some people here that are probably saying that there's no way he's worth a first round pick. Plus, it's unlikely that we would trade with SD to begin with. But, I think it's possible that we work a deal similar to the Lelie deal or Abraham deal last year. Something like the Jets send their first to the Chargers for Turner. We then send Tatum Bell and our high third (maybe even 2nd) to the Jets for Michael Turner. I like the final option the best. It allows us to still address the DLine in the first and gives us a RB in round 2 or perhaps even round 3 that is young, fast, and big. He's far better than anyone that will be available in the 2nd round at RB. Of course he'll cost a lot more, but it won't be any more than Jamal Lewis or Fred Taylor would cost. His youth is the key!
Trading for used up runners or other teams backups...no thanks. Taylor's 31, and Turner might not be so good in this system...who knows...but no way I'd give up a 2nd rounder AND a thousand yard back for him.

Can we just go draft our own guy instead of taking other teams castoffs?

[TheChamp24]

The loss of a single player (Lepsis) caused huge problems last year. We were not able to more the chains like we used to. Even with Lepsis, this line is in the bottom half of the league. Without him, it's worse.

Anderson was shipped because he's lost a step, so why bring in Lewis, who is probaly slower yet and never run in this system?

I bet most teams would suffer losing their starting LT who is very good. The Chiefs didn't, not in the running game, because they had Waters and Shields, but seriously, come on now. Our OL is NOT that bad, good lord. I guess everybody on our OL couldn't start for another team, right?
Our OL will be fine next year. We do need to maybe loot at grooming another OT though for when Lepsis retires, if Pears won't take that over.

[Drek]

The loss of a single player (Lepsis) caused huge problems last year. We were not able to more the chains like we used to. Even with Lepsis, this line is in the bottom half of the league. Without him, it's worse.
Our offense sucked and wasn't moving the chains before Lepsis got hurt. It wasn't just losing one crucial OT that did us in offensively, it was no tailback stepping up into a 20+ carries per game role, Rod Smith finally having a drop off year, Foster playing el matadour at RT, and Plummer playing like an asshat that pretty much directly lead to Marshall and Scheffler not finding a chance to contribute until he was benched.

Even still our offense turned it around significantly with only one change, QB. Pears in his natural RT, former all-pro Matt Lepsis back at LT, a bigger, more athletic RG in Kuper, and Rod moved to a split snaps role with Marshall should all lead to much improved offensive play. The only pieces our O really needs at this point is a field stretching 4th (future 3rd) WR and an every down RB. We could easily get that WR early in this draft, but short of finding a team to rape we aren't getting Peterson, probably not Lynch and they're the only two RBs that could even be semi-trusted to be every down backs their rookie season.

I like the idea of signing Jamal Lewis, especially if it means we keep Tatum and use a similar backfield combo like we had in '05, only Lewis shouldn't wear down so much late in the season and we'd have Mike Bell to take some of the load off anyhow. Then look to get one of the very talented RBs from next year's potential draft class.

[Rascal]

so footstepsfrom#27 what would you do for RB?

[footstepsfrom#27]

so footstepsfrom#27 what would you do for RB?
The 2008 draft class is considered stronger for RB's, so I'd hold off on using a high pick for a RB this year, and go with trying to strengthen the offensive line first because we need to protect Jay as our highest priority, look at the D-line second, and then look for another system type back deep in this draft...the Bobby Turner specials we've been successful finding in the past. The only other realistic scenario is to move multiple picks or players to move up for Peterson or Lynch, which is doable but very expensive. If we do sign a FA back I'd prefer one with fewer miles than Lewis and better character.

There is one other possibililty. Who knows how good Mike Bell is this year after getting a year under his belt. Maybe he comes back this time around and winds up as the clear starter with a year under his belt.

[atomicbloke]

this offseason ought to be about fixing our O-line holes

Am I the only one who agrees with you that our O-line is our biggest area of concern?

I still get nightmares of our franchise QB being slammed into a concussion because Georgina's fat ass stuck to the ground.... And our O-line has to be one of the worst in goal-line situations... just too light....

Give me Levi Brown at #21...

[2KBack]

The 2008 draft class is considered stronger for RB's, so I'd hold off on using a high pick for a RB this year, and go with trying to strengthen the offensive line first because we need to protect Jay as our highest priority, look at the D-line second, and then look for another system type back deep in this draft...the Bobby Turner specials we've been successful finding in the past. The only other realistic scenario is to move multiple picks or players to move up for Peterson or Lynch, which is doable but very expensive. If we do sign a FA back I'd prefer one with fewer miles than Lewis and better character.

There is one other possibililty. Who knows how good Mike Bell is this year after getting a year under his belt. Maybe he comes back this time around and winds up as the clear starter with a year under his belt.


As a well known Mike Bell supporter, I obviously think He could excel as the starter. I worry about drafting a RB high, since I'm not a big fan of Lynch and Peterson is unrealistic without selling other picks. I think Mike Bell probably could beat out any retread Denver picks up if only becasue of his youth and familiarity with the offense now.

What I wouldn't mind though is looking at Rice from Rutgers next year. That guy reminds me so much of TD is hurts. Depending on how well our backs run next season of course.

[SouthStndJunkie]

I would not want to invest much in Jamal Lewis.

He is not the same back he used to be.

I would be willing to give him an incentive laden one year deal if nobody else offers him anything substantial.

But there are too many teams with money to burn, so he will get somebody to give him some decent jack.

[ukbroncosfan]

The loss of a single player (Lepsis) caused huge problems last year. We were not able to more the chains like we used to. Even with Lepsis, this line is in the bottom half of the league. Without him, it's worse.

Baltimore has a similar style running game? Hardly. Baltimore's line averages 323 lbs per man, and Denver's best line (with Lepsis and Meadows) goes 288...with Foster 297 per man...23-35 pounds difference. Baltimore does not run a stretch zone, so how is it you think they run a similar system? In the last two seasons Lewis has posted ypc averages of 3.4 and 3.6 running behind that huge power blocking line. What do you think he'd do behind our pigmies?

Anderson was shipped because he's lost a step, so why bring in Lewis, who is probaly slower yet and never run in this system?

Apart from the Rams game where Leonard Little manhandled George Foster I thought the o-line looked dandy with Lepsis in the lineup.

People point to the injury to LT Luke Petitgout as having a major effect on Eli Manning's season. Cutler never took a snap with Lepsis protecting his blind side. It was a big loss.

[Gcver2ver3]

As a well known Mike Bell supporter, I obviously think He could excel as the starter. I think Mike Bell probably could beat out any retread Denver picks up if only becasue of his youth and familiarity with the offense now.

If we start next season with Mike Bell as our featured guy....we will struggle on offense the same way we did last season...

the definition of insanity is doing the same thing but expecting different results...

fortunately i think shanny realizes this and is focused on getting a real franchise back...no more late rounders or undrafted free agents...its time to get back to the top offensively...we need a stud....

as far as jamal lewis...i am torn on whether he would be a good pick-up...he looks washed up...but he's still young and is a few yrs removed from running for 2000yds...

[Drek]

Am I the only one who agrees with you that our O-line is our biggest area of concern?

I still get nightmares of our franchise QB being slammed into a concussion because Georgina's fat ass stuck to the ground.... And our O-line has to be one of the worst in goal-line situations... just too light....

Give me Levi Brown at #21...

1. Thats about 5-10 picks later than where Brown will actually go, so unless you want to overpay for an underachiever like Ugoh there isn't even much in the way of first round talent that'll be sitting around at pick #21.

2. We never start rookie OLs. Foster didn't and we were pretty poor off at RT the year before he took over.

3. Why in hell do so many people think Foster is going to start here next year? Pears did very well out of position playing the much more challenging LT position, Meadows beat Foster out before getting injured mid-season. Both of them healthy, fresh (Pears spent last summer in NFLE, Meadows was just reentering the league), and getting snaps with the first unit will easily bump Foster to a backup role. As a backup Foster should make a hell of a goal line sub.

I'd be up for bringing in a lower cost veteran to add competition for the backup jobs. Most notably I'd like to sign Toniu Fonoti to compete with Kuper and Myers for the starting RG job. I doubt Fonoti can beat out Kuper or Myers, both more athletic and with experience in our system but he'd provide a big backup who like Foster could add some serious bulk to OL on short yardage and goal line situations.

[fontaine]

1. Thats about 5-10 picks later than where Brown will actually go, so unless you want to overpay for an underachiever like Ugoh there isn't even much in the way of first round talent that'll be sitting around at pick #21.

2. We never start rookie OLs. Foster didn't and we were pretty poor off at RT the year before he took over.

3. Why in hell do so many people think Foster is going to start here next year? Pears did very well out of position playing the much more challenging LT position, Meadows beat Foster out before getting injured mid-season. Both of them healthy, fresh (Pears spent last summer in NFLE, Meadows was just reentering the league), and getting snaps with the first unit will easily bump Foster to a backup role. As a backup Foster should make a hell of a goal line sub.

I'd be up for bringing in a lower cost veteran to add competition for the backup jobs. Most notably I'd like to sign Toniu Fonoti to compete with Kuper and Myers for the starting RG job. I doubt Fonoti can beat out Kuper or Myers, both more athletic and with experience in our system but he'd provide a big backup who like Foster could add some serious bulk to OL on short yardage and goal line situations.

I've said that we should bring in Toniu Fonoti as well a few weeks ago. His weight issues have cost him to be cut twice but if he can drop to his playing weight he's a real force and would be a fun project.

[cmhargrove]

I don't really like the idea of getting Lewis but I ask myself if Bobby Turner stays with the Broncos, do you think he could get Lewis back to his former self? If he lost a few pounds and worked on more agility, he might start hitting the line (or the hole) a little better again?

I'm no big Lewis fan, but the right training and coaching could give us something great for 1-2 years. Or, he's just a washed up, choppy foot, hit the line and fall for 3 kind of guy from here on out.

If he could cut to the backside, then punish linebackers, our offense could really dominate in the second half (which we really lacked last year). And, how much would you have given for a power runner like Lewis against San Fran on our three first and goal situations???

I'm still crossing my fingers for Mike Bell to succeed, but if Lewis is mentally ready to be coached, he could be a force for our team - and block well for Cutler.

[Drek]

I've said that we should bring in Toniu Fonoti as well a few weeks ago. His weight issues have cost him to be cut twice but if he can drop to his playing weight he's a real force and would be a fun project.

I don't care if he even stays a fat ass, let him and Foster line up side by side and fall forward with Mike Bell or a veteran power back (like Jamal Lewis) jumping over them to pick up a tough couple yards. Kuper can start, Fonoti just needs to crush DLs in short yardage situations.

I don't really like the idea of getting Lewis but I ask myself if Bobby Turner stays with the Broncos, do you think he could get Lewis back to his former self? If he lost a few pounds and worked on more agility, he might start hitting the line (or the hole) a little better again?

I'm no big Lewis fan, but the right training and coaching could give us something great for 1-2 years. Or, he's just a washed up, choppy foot, hit the line and fall for 3 kind of guy from here on out.
I think Greek could help him out a lot in that regard. Lewis basically runs our style as it is, one cut and downhill. I think his biggest problems the last two years come from poor conditioning post-prison and the drop off in the Ravens' interior OL play. Get him down 5-10 pounds and he'd be capable of giving us a year or two of power work while we find a young new feature back.

[2KBack]

If we start next season with Mike Bell as our featured guy....we will struggle on offense the same way we did last season...

the definition of insanity is doing the same thing but expecting different results...

I disagree, I think it's insane to think that things don't change. Hell the offense even improved during last season, and that was just by switching QB's. Denver averaged around 17 points a game, then in the last five averaged close to 25 points a game. I'm sure we all are expecting Cutler to be better next season, most probably expect MArshall to push for more time, lots of talk about Kuper getting on the field now, why is it that Mike Bell will never improve beyond his rookie performance?

[footstepsfrom#27]

1. Thats about 5-10 picks later than where Brown will actually go, so unless you want to overpay for an underachiever like Ugoh there isn't even much in the way of first round talent that'll be sitting around at pick #21.
Left OT is the 2nd most important position on the team, and Brown may be a better prospect on the left side than Joe Thomas who has short arms, which means he's possibly better suited for the right side. Leaving our L-OT in the hands of an injured player who will be turning 34 this season is dangerous and foolish when our franchise QB is the primary focus of this offense. If it takes moving up 5-10 spots to get Brown, that's a price I'm willing to pay. Give me stability at that position over any 2nd player we might get with a 2nd or 3rd round pick...we frequenly waste those picks anyway. A good LT can play 13 years in the league and the one we have is almost finished.
We never start rookie OLs. Foster didn't and we were pretty poor off at RT the year before he took over.
Why does this thinking mean we can't draft an OT in the first round? The longer we wait to address this position the longer we'll have a problem. Suppose we draft Brown in the first, and Lepsis gives us one more year? Then Brown steps in in 2008. If we don't draft him, now what do we do? Move Pears, an UFA better suited for the right side over there? Use Meadows? He's 12 days younger than Lepsis...maybe he's got another year or two? No, we need to address this spot now rather than later or we're all going to be asking what QB we can trade for after Cutler's done for the season.
As a backup Foster should make a hell of a goal line sub.
I don't want him on the team at all. When you watch this guy it's like he's not even trying. Why does putting him on the 2nd unit change the fact he sucks?

[2KBack]

seriously, I usually don't watch the o-line much, but after all the complaints I heard here I started keeping an eye on foster when I could. I think he personally was responsible for more back breaking bad plays on offense than any one player and that includes Plummer.

[Rascal]

seriously, I usually don't watch the o-line much, but after all the complaints I heard here I started keeping an eye on foster when I could. I think he personally was responsible for more back breaking bad plays on offense than any one player and that includes Plummer.

LOL!!!

TJ will take offense to that statement.

[Drek]

Left OT is the 2nd most important position on the team, and Brown may be a better prospect on the left side than Joe Thomas who has short arms, which means he's possibly better suited for the right side. Leaving our L-OT in the hands of an injured player who will be turning 34 this season is dangerous and foolish when our franchise QB is the primary focus of this offense. If it takes moving up 5-10 spots to get Brown, that's a price I'm willing to pay. Give me stability at that position over any 2nd player we might get with a 2nd or 3rd round pick...we frequenly waste those picks anyway. A good LT can play 13 years in the league and the one we have is almost finished. Lepsis has came back from a similar injury before and played just fine. We also still have Pears and Meadows. I'm not saying it wouldn't be great to add Brown, but you act like we never make good use of 2nd and 3rd rounders when in fact thats when this FO has made their best picks. Scheffler, Darrent Williams, Foxworth, Paymah, Gold, Hayward, Portis, all 2nd and 3rd rounders who have done well for us. We have a worse track record with 1sts and the entire second day.

Brown is a good prospect but he's not god's gift to LTs like you make him sound. He didn't dominate collegiately like Thomas did. There's a reason Joe Thomas is considered far and away the best OT in this class. If Brown slides, great, but its not worth giving up a 2nd round pick so we can be the ones that overpick him betting on his potential in the early teens.


Why does this thinking mean we can't draft an OT in the first round? The longer we wait to address this position the longer we'll have a problem. Suppose we draft Brown in the first, and Lepsis gives us one more year? Then Brown steps in in 2008. If we don't draft him, now what do we do? Move Pears, an UFA better suited for the right side over there? Use Meadows? He's 12 days younger than Lepsis...maybe he's got another year or two? No, we need to address this spot now rather than later or we're all going to be asking what QB we can trade for after Cutler's done for the season.
It doesn't mean we can't add an OT, but it'd be damned stupid to burn our first and second pick to get one good OT when this might just be the best first day DL class in the history of the draft, an area we're pathetically weak at. So yeah, if we want to give up our first two picks on a guy who'll ride the pine in '07 and probably '08 it'd make sense to draft an OT. Me personally, I'm not real keen on that plan.

Meadows was a quality NFL starter for a long time in this league, Pears proved himself last year. Lepsis is a former all-pro who just turned 33 and probably has two or three more years left in him. It'd be wise to add some depth at OT in the later rounds, or Brown in the 1st should he miraculously slide, but you want to ignore the massive holes we have on the DL, the question marks at safety where two of our top three had their seasons ended by leg injuries (and they weren't exactly all world to begin with), or adding another WR who can give us the vertical speed that neither Marshall nor Rod can provide when this class is deep at all three of those positions. How does that make any sense?


I don't want him on the team at all. When you watch this guy it's like he's not even trying. Why does putting him on the 2nd unit change the fact he sucks?Is that it? Your whole campaign for needed OL improvements centers around your hatred of a 2nd or 3rd string OT? Foster was a valuable starter here for two years. Just because he had one real ****ty year doesn't mean he can't turn it around or at the very least contribute to this team in a positive way.

Step back from your hatred of Foster and ask yourself this. Is it more likely that come week 5 two of our three reliable OTs are unable to compete at an NFL level or that one of our two DTs (Warren & Veal) and/or two of our three worthwhile DEs (Ekuban, Lang, Dumervil) are unable to handle full time roles? That Rod Smith can't be an effective #3 and that Hixon or Kircus will never emerge as the vertical speed threat Cutler's arm strength clearly demands? Maybe that Ferguson and Brandon both lost some vital speed and now lack what cover skills they once had?

Or maybe the original reason for this thread once again turns its head and we see a weak Bell & Bell combo stumbling like they did most of last year?

Sorry, OT is about as far down the priority list as it gets. Brown is a worthwhile pick if he slides because of the enormous value and potential he'd offer at #21 but other than that we have three quality OTs and a guy who used to be one. Why not address our real needs when this draft's depth dovetails so nicely with them?

[Lestat]

screw JL i want Marshawn Lynch

[Rascal]

I agree. OT is not a concern in this draft. Lepsis, Pears, and Meadows can handle the duties, and if all else fails or he gets a firecracker up his ass Foster can start.

[Gcver2ver3]

I disagree, I think it's insane to think that things don't change. Hell the offense even improved during last season, and that was just by switching QB's. Denver averaged around 17 points a game, then in the last five averaged close to 25 points a game. I'm sure we all are expecting Cutler to be better next season, most probably expect MArshall to push for more time, lots of talk about Kuper getting on the field now, why is it that Mike Bell will never improve beyond his rookie performance?

I like Bell...he's got a lot of heart....but let's not settle anymore when it comes to RB...

we have gotten arrogant when it comes to the run game...we feel like we plug anyone there and we're good....

this isn't the case anymore....people are defending our zone blocking better not to mention our o-line isn't elite right now....we need a pro-bowl calibur guy to come in and make our offense a real threat from all aspects...

Mike Bell is a good back-up...but i don't believe he's capable of carrying the load 25 times a game for a full season...

[footstepsfrom#27]

Lepsis has came back from a similar injury before and played just fine. We also still have Pears and Meadows.
Since when has Lepsis been injured before? He's started every game but one...116 our of 117 starts before this year. So that's bogus. He's aging now...and the fact he's now injured for the first time in his career is a warning sign we should not ignore. Even if he's 100% healthy...he'll turn 34 this season. How much longer do you propose we go with him? A year? Two? Five? If it takes a year or two for a rookie to be ready, the longer you wait the greater the danger he runs out of time.
I'm not saying it wouldn't be great to add Brown, but you act like we never make good use of 2nd and 3rd rounders when in fact thats when this FO has made their best picks. Scheffler, Darrent Williams, Foxworth, Paymah, Gold, Hayward, Portis, all 2nd and 3rd rounders who have done well for us. We have a worse track record with 1sts and the entire second day.
You left a few names off that list. Does Paul Toviessie, Montae Reagor, Lennie Friedman, Chris Watson, Travis McGriff, Terry Pierce, Darius Watts, Dorsett Davis, and Jeremy LeSueur ring a bell? Given the fact that you SHOULD have a high success rate with 2nd rounders, and to a somewhat lesser extent with 3rd rounders, it's no great accomplishment that we have some current 2nd and 3rd rounders on the team...so what? How many have become pro bowl caliber players? How many have been busts?
Brown is a good prospect but he's not god's gift to LTs like you make him sound. He didn't dominate collegiately like Thomas did. There's a reason Joe Thomas is considered far and away the best OT in this class. If Brown slides, great, but its not worth giving up a 2nd round pick so we can be the ones that overpick him betting on his potential in the early teens.
Where did I say Brown was "God's gift to LT's"? I just stated that some scouts see Thomas as a better right tackle. Brown has longer arms, which is an advantage. I like Brown because he's considered a solid NFL starter who can play the left side. If we can suddenly pull off a Zimmerman type deal for a sold NFL starter at LT, great! But what exactly is wrong with wanting to nail down that side of the line for the next decade?
It doesn't mean we can't add an OT, but it'd be damned stupid to burn our first and second pick to get one good OT when this might just be the best first day DL class in the history of the draft, an area we're pathetically weak at. So yeah, if we want to give up our first two picks on a guy who'll ride the pine in '07 and probably '08 it'd make sense to draft an OT. Me personally, I'm not real keen on that plan.
First of all, who says he has to ride the pine for two years? Second, I haven't seen a single scout who claims this draft class for D-line guys is the best, or one of the best in NFL history. I've heard that it's deep at the top of the draft for D-line guys, which is not the same thing. Second, go back and check the past drafts, starting with last years...and see what historically Mike Shanahan has done when a particular position is considered the deep area of the draft. Last year was a great example. The 2006 draft was considered strong with O-line guys, which you would have thought would mean we went with those guys high in the draft right? Wrong. Shanahan does exactly the opposite. He ignores the top of the draft at positions where the draft is considered strong and waits for prospects to filter down to the 4th or 5th round. Instead of going O-line last year in the 2nd round, he waited till we got Kuper and Eslinger on the 2nd day. So don't think that just because D-line guys are plentiful we'll be getting one. I'm betting that we don't even draft a D-line guy till at least the 3rd or 4th round. Shanahan seems to be using the philosophy that you take players at positions of scarce talent first, then worry about those that are stocked with more talent. I don't agree with it but that's usually how it works out. That's why half this board always goes WTF??? in the 1st round on draft day.
Meadows was a quality NFL starter for a long time in this league, Pears proved himself last year. Lepsis is a former all-pro who just turned 33 and probably has two or three more years left in him.
Lepsis is not a former All-Pro. I can't even find him listed as a pro bowl player, though I seem to remember he was named an alternate once or twice...whatever...he's underated and he's a fit for our system, but he's not a power player. He's a bulked up tight end with mobility who fits our system and pass blocks well but apart from being a good cut blocker, he's not a great run blocking tackle who can drive people off the ball at 290 pounds. He's good for what he does...I'm not disputing that. But there's no reason to assume he's "good for another two or three years" as you suggest. He may not even make it back for this year. Pears has not "proven himself". I saw a lot of plays where he struggled. He gets props for being a hard working UFA who has slowly come on but to suggest he's what we want protecting our franchise QB's blind side for the next 10 years is a big stretch. He MIGHT be a decent player, or he might be a one year wonder.
It'd be wise to add some depth at OT in the later rounds, or Brown in the 1st should he miraculously slide, but you want to ignore the massive holes we have on the DL, the question marks at safety where two of our top three had their seasons ended by leg injuries (and they weren't exactly all world to begin with), or adding another WR who can give us the vertical speed that neither Marshall nor Rod can provide when this class is deep at all three of those positions. How does that make any sense?
It make sense because if you fill ALL those needs and lose Jay Cutler you're basically screwed. Second, the running game has noticably slowed, and part of the reason is our O-line does not resemble the dominant force it once did.
Is that it? Your whole campaign for needed OL improvements centers around your hatred of a 2nd or 3rd string OT? Foster was a valuable starter here for two years. Just because he had one real ****ty year doesn't mean he can't turn it around or at the very least contribute to this team in a positive way.
He's been a careeer underachiever who never stayed healthy or lived up to his billing and he flat out sucks. Good news is that no...that's not my only solution...getting rid of him...I want to draft some other O-lne guys with size as well. Gimme a couple 330 pound+ guys at the guard spots and Nalen's replacement as well. We need to turn this entire O-line over in the next two years or we're facing a big problem with trying to 1) protect Jay Cutler and 2) continue to compete with the same philosophy. NFL rules changes are in the wind that may outlaw cut blocking entirely by next season and this team is not prepared for that. Even if it doesn't happen, we can't block for the run in the red zone, we can't adequately pass block, and we get manhandled by the Chargers D-line whenever we play them.

[Rascal]

Lepsis had the exact same injury, just opposite knee, early in his career before he became a starter. In fact it may have been in college I'm not sure. Check his bio, but it's not bogus.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Lepsis blew out his knee covering a kickoff in the Senior Bowl or one of the other College All-Star games.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Lepsis had the exact same injury, just opposite knee, early in his career before he became a starter. In fact it may have been in college I'm not sure. Check his bio, but it's not bogus.
You're talking about his first year in the league which he spent on the IR due to a college knee injury. He'd probably have wound up there even if he wasn't hurt just to stash him. That was 10 years ago...at age 23...what possible relevance does that have to him now? He's now 10 years older and has a ton of miles on him that he didn't have then. The ASSUMPTION he makes it back at all, or that he's the same player...is just that; an assumption. Even if he does, we still need his eventual replacement. I for one want the most important pass protector on the line to be a guy with 1st round talent...the guy protecting Jay's blind side...to be somebody we invest serious resources in. MOST often, that does not mean a bargain bin guy we pulled off the scrap heap or dug out of the 6th round of the draft. Might that happen? Might Pears be the guy? Might some dude nobody ever heard of? Sure...but it's not LIKELY to happen.

Nothing is more important than Jay Cutler's health...not even the defensive line.

[eddie mac]

Legwold reckons Meadows is the frontrunner for the RT position if he can get a full pre-season under his belt and stay away from the nagging injuries he suffered last season which co-incidently are being blamed on his lack of conditioning.

[Rascal]

You're talking about his first year in the league which he spent on the IR due to a college knee injury. He'd probably have wound up there even if he wasn't hurt just to stash him. That was 10 years ago...at age 23...what possible relevance does that have to him now? He's now 10 years older and has a ton of miles on him that he didn't have then. The ASSUMPTION he makes it back at all, or that he's the same player...is just that; an assumption. Even if he does, we still need his eventual replacement. I for one want the most important pass protector on the line to be a guy with 1st round talent...the guy protecting Jay's blind side...to be somebody we invest serious resources in. MOST often, that does not mean a bargain bin guy we pulled off the scrap heap or dug out of the 6th round of the draft. Might that happen? Might Pears be the guy? Might some dude nobody ever heard of? Sure...but it's not LIKELY to happen.

Nothing is more important than Jay Cutler's health...not even the defensive line.


Well you said this BS statement, "Since when has Lepsis been injured before?...and the fact he's now injured for the first time in his career is a warning sign we should not ignore." That's the relevance it has. He had the exact same injury, so he knows what to expect (rehabilitation) plus the technology is better in that field. So if he made a 100% come back from the first time it happened, remember different knee, why not the second time?

Remember that Lepsis wasn't an offensive line in college, so he doesn't have the wear and tear that a normal NFL offensive lineman would have for his age. Even if he can't come back next year, which is a big assumption, we have Pears ready to go who played pretty well in his stead. There is no way that even if we draft a tackle in the first round that he would start over Pears or Meadows, hell probably even Foster.

And as eddie pointed out Meadows will probably even start at RT next year if he can stay away from those injuries. If not then we have Pears or Foster backing him up.

OT is not an issue in the draft. D-line, RB, S are the issues that need to be addressed.

And we don't need a first round guy blocking Jays blindside. Lepsis was drafted in what, the 7th round, and he is blocking his blind side now. You don't have a problem with that. So quit with your pathetic demands of us drafting a first round OT to protect Jay's ass.

[Rascal]

Actually he was undrafted. I guess he isn't worthy to block Jay's backside. What shall we do.

[chaz]

Well you said this BS statement, "Since when has Lepsis been injured before?...and the fact he's now injured for the first time in his career is a warning sign we should not ignore." That's the relevance it has. He had the exact same injury, so he knows what to expect (rehabilitation) plus the technology is better in that field. So if he made a 100% come back from the first time it happened, remember different knee, why not the second time?

Remember that Lepsis wasn't an offensive line in college, so he doesn't have the wear and tear that a normal NFL offensive lineman would have for his age. Even if he can't come back next year, which is a big assumption, we have Pears ready to go who played pretty well in his stead. There is no way that even if we draft a tackle in the first round that he would start over Pears or Meadows, hell probably even Foster.

And as eddie pointed out Meadows will probably even start at RT next year if he can stay away from those injuries. If not then we have Pears or Foster backing him up.

OT is not an issue in the draft. D-line, RB, S are the issues that need to be addressed.

And we don't need a first round guy blocking Jays blindside. Lepsis was drafted in what, the 7th round, and he is blocking his blind side now. You don't have a problem with that. So quit with your pathetic demands of us drafting a first round OT to protect Jay's ass.

good post rascal. i think we will probably draft an OT day two but not before then, just the classic late rounders we always take for the future.

Jay is fine footsteps, the offensive line will be better next year without even one new face, just need health and for the young guys experience.

[Atlas]

Jay is fine footsteps, the offensive line will be better next year without even one new face, just need health and for the young guys experience.

Neither Carslie nor Foster will be starting for Denver next year.

[Rascal]

Neither Carslie nor Foster will be starting for Denver next year.

That remains to be seen.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Well you said this BS statement, "Since when has Lepsis been injured before?...and the fact he's now injured for the first time in his career is a warning sign we should not ignore." That's the relevance it has. He had the exact same injury, so he knows what to expect (rehabilitation) plus the technology is better in that field. So if he made a 100% come back from the first time it happened, remember different knee, why not the second time?
First of all, I don't consider his COLLEGE injury to be part of his pro career 10 years later...whatever...let's see if he hurt himself in Jr. High School also and reference that too. Second, the answer to the question, "why not the second time?"...is one I doubt you'll get at age 27, but in about ten years, you will. The body does not respond at 33 like it did at 23...especially after a decade of trench warefare in the NFL. Go check the long list of linemen who recover early in their careers from injuries and sucumb later on. The FACT is that we're living on borrowed time with Lepsis even if he does recover. Assume that you're right...he returns. Fine...he's got maybe two years left? If you draft is replacement TODAY that guy will just be ready to step in. If not...then we're looking at plugging in Pears or somebody else not even on the team yet into that all important LT spot. That makes no sense.
Remember that Lepsis wasn't an offensive line in college, so he doesn't have the wear and tear that a normal NFL offensive lineman would have for his age. Even if he can't come back next year, which is a big assumption, we have Pears ready to go who played pretty well in his stead. There is no way that even if we draft a tackle in the first round that he would start over Pears or Meadows, hell probably even Foster.
I would start Jeff Legwold over Foster. And why is it you think that Pears, and undrafted free agent and NFL Europe guy with ONE year in the league isn't vulnerable to a guy drafted in the top half of the first round? Please. The NFL has rookie starters every year in the O-line. Even if he doesn't start right away, there's no guarantee a rookie at ANY position starts his first year, so that argument is nonsense. Second, that BS about him being a TE in college so he doesn't have the wear and tear is absurd. He's got 10 years of NFL linemen pounding on him. Even when he's healthy, Lepsis is not the long term answer...oh I forgot...we have ERIC PEARS...problem solved I guess. I saw multiple examples of Pears struggling during last season. He's absolutely no guarantee.
And as eddie pointed out Meadows will probably even start at RT next year if he can stay away from those injuries. If not then we have Pears or Foster backing him up.
Meadows is the same age as Lepsis. He's average at best. Foster...did you even watch this guy? I watched entire games focusing on just him and he's a complete joke.
OT is not an issue in the draft. D-line, RB, S are the issues that need to be addressed.
That's what Dan Reeves thought too when he had Elway. He refused to address the issue of talent in the offensive line, choosing instead to plug in the same kind of guys you hold in such high regard. In 12 years Reeves never drafted an O-line guy in the 1st round, choosing instead to go with small, finesse type linemen...the Dave Studdards, Billy Bryans and Ken Laniers of the world trying to hold off the big physical D-lines of the NFC. We know how that worked out don't we?
And we don't need a first round guy blocking Jays blindside. Lepsis was drafted in what, the 7th round, and he is blocking his blind side now. You don't have a problem with that. So quit with your pathetic demands of us drafting a first round OT to protect Jay's ass.
The broken clock/blind squirrel thing applies here...just becuase we've been fortunate enough to find an OT in the scrap heap before doesn't mean that should be the preferred strategy. Pears is more likely to wind up on the waiver wire than he is the pro bowl ballot. This team has historically ignored it's offensive line in the first round of the draft. Other than Foster, the last time Denver drafted an O-line guy in the 1st round who played for us was 1979.

[Rascal]

First of all, I don't consider his COLLEGE injury to be part of his pro career 10 years later...whatever...let's see if he hurt himself in Jr. High School also and reference that too. Second, the answer to the question, "why not the second time?"...is one I doubt you'll get at age 27, but in about ten years, you will. The body does not respond at 33 like it did at 23...especially after a decade of trench warefare in the NFL. Go check the long list of linemen who recover early in their careers from injuries and sucumb later on. The FACT is that we're living on borrowed time with Lepsis even if he does recover. Assume that you're right...he returns. Fine...he's got maybe two years left? If you draft is replacement TODAY that guy will just be ready to step in. If not...then we're looking at plugging in Pears or somebody else not even on the team yet into that all important LT spot. That makes no sense.

I would start Jeff Legwold over Foster. And why is it you think that Pears, and undrafted free agent and NFL Europe guy with ONE year in the league isn't vulnerable to a guy drafted in the top half of the first round? Please. The NFL has rookie starters every year in the O-line. Even if he doesn't start right away, there's no guarantee a rookie at ANY position starts his first year, so that argument is nonsense. Second, that BS about him being a TE in college so he doesn't have the wear and tear is absurd. He's got 10 years of NFL linemen pounding on him. Even when he's healthy, Lepsis is not the long term answer...oh I forgot...we have ERIC PEARS...problem solved I guess. I saw multiple examples of Pears struggling during last season. He's absolutely no guarantee.

Meadows is the same age as Lepsis. He's average at best. Foster...did you even watch this guy? I watched entire games focusing on just him and he's a complete joke.

That's what Dan Reeves thought too when he had Elway. He refused to address the issue of talent in the offensive line, choosing instead to plug in the same kind of guys you hold in such high regard. In 12 years Reeves never drafted an O-line guy in the 1st round, choosing instead to go with small, finesse type linemen...the Dave Studdards, Billy Bryans and Ken Laniers of the world try to hold off the big physical D-lines of the NFC. We know how that worked out don't we?

The broken clock/blind squirrel thing applies here...just becuase we've been fortunate enough to find an OT in the scrap heap before doesn't mean that should be the preferred strategy. Pears is more likely to wind up on the waiver wire than he is the pro bowl ballot. This team has historically ignored it's offensive line in the first round of the draft. Other than Foster, the last time Denver drafted an O-line guy in the 1st round who played for us was 1979.

The rest of your post is meaningless BS because it is BS. That first part is the biggest spin job I've heard since Karl Rove has been on TV. You said it, and were dead wrong. Deal with it.

As far as this statement, it proves my point exactly about not needing to spend a first rounder on an offensive lineman. We've been in the top 5, if not the most prolific, running team since Shanny became coach. If we only drafted one lineman in the first round (who was considered our worst starter BTW) and still accomplished that feat it should tell you something.

[footstepsfrom#27]

The rest of your post is meaningless BS because it is BS. That first part is the biggest spin job I've heard since Karl Rove has been on TV. You said it, and were dead wrong. Deal with it.
So your position then if I understand you correctly is that a knee injury at age 33 is no more significant than one sustained in college. Is that correct? You're saying the body has no more difficulty recovering after 10 years in the league than it did at age 23...right?
As far as this statement, it proves my point exactly about not needing to spend a first rounder on an offensive lineman. We've been in the top 5, if not the most prolific, running team since Shanny became coach. If we only drafted one lineman in the first round (who was considered our worst starter BTW) and still accomplished that feat it should tell you something.
In case you haven't noticed, NFL defensive linemen have been getting not just bigger but faster and quicker. They are catching up to the stretch zone blocking schemes. What works today doesn't necessarily work tomorrow. And since you probably don't remember the disasterous Reeves experiment with small lines on both sides of the ball, see if you can find a copy of Superbowl XXII somewhere and watch that horror show. Denver's running game is slowing down, our offensive line is no longer dominant, and we're getting abused by bigger more physical lines.

But don't worry...they're also old as well.

[PLOWHORSE]

The rest of your post is meaningless BS because it is BS. That first part is the biggest spin job I've heard since Karl Rove has been on TV. You said it, and were dead wrong. Deal with it.

As far as this statement, it proves my point exactly about not needing to spend a first rounder on an offensive lineman. We've been in the top 5, if not the most prolific, running team since Shanny became coach. If we only drafted one lineman in the first round (who was considered our worst starter BTW) and still accomplished that feat it should tell you something.

Now that you put it that way...I'd start Karl Rove over tubby knock-kneed Foster!

[Rascal]

So your position then if I understand you correctly is that a knee injury at age 33 is no more significant than one sustained in college. Is that correct? You're saying the body has no more difficulty recovering after 10 years in the league than it did at age 23...right?

In case you haven't noticed, NFL defensive linemen have been getting not just bigger but faster and quicker. They are catching up to the stretch zone blocking schemes. What works today doesn't necessarily work tomorrow. And since you probably don't remember the disasterous Reeves experiment with small lines on both sides of the ball, see if you can find a copy of Superbowl XXII somewhere and watch that horror show. Denver's running game is slowing down, our offensive line is no longer dominant, and we're getting abused by bigger more physical lines.

But don't worry...they're also old as well.

I never once said that. I've explained it already but you aren't paying attention. I'm not going to waste my time.

[Florida_Bronco]

Rascal, there is no point in trying to talk sense into this guy regarding the O-line. Seriously, the way this guy talks you would think George Foster is the anti-christ.

[Drek]

Since when has Lepsis been injured before? He's started every game but one...116 our of 117 starts before this year. So that's bogus. He's aging now...and the fact he's now injured for the first time in his career is a warning sign we should not ignore. Even if he's 100% healthy...he'll turn 34 this season. How much longer do you propose we go with him? A year? Two? Five? If it takes a year or two for a rookie to be ready, the longer you wait the greater the danger he runs out of time.
This has been answered already, he rehabbed and hasn't shown any problems since. Is it harder to rebound at 32 (he only turned 33 in January, FYI)? Sure, but medical advances, especially what's accessible to NFL teams, has advanced miles beyond the level it was at then. We gave him a four year deal last off-season, I'd expect him to play it out though he might not be starting the last year. Why blow our load getting a replacement in an OL shallow draft when we can fill so many other gaps?


You left a few names off that list. Does Paul Toviessie, Montae Reagor, Lennie Friedman, Chris Watson, Travis McGriff, Terry Pierce, Darius Watts, Dorsett Davis, and Jeremy LeSueur ring a bell? Given the fact that you SHOULD have a high success rate with 2nd rounders, and to a somewhat lesser extent with 3rd rounders, it's no great accomplishment that we have some current 2nd and 3rd rounders on the team...so what? How many have become pro bowl caliber players? How many have been busts?
And even with those busts and semi-busts we've gotten more out of the second and third round than the 1st and second day combined. You said we typically waste them, that was 100% wrong, it is in fact where we typically make our best picks.


Where did I say Brown was "God's gift to LT's"? I just stated that some scouts see Thomas as a better right tackle. Brown has longer arms, which is an advantage. I like Brown because he's considered a solid NFL starter who can play the left side. If we can suddenly pull off a Zimmerman type deal for a sold NFL starter at LT, great! But what exactly is wrong with wanting to nail down that side of the line for the next decade?
Those scouts need to put down the crack pipe and watch Thomas play football. He's a better LT prospect than anyone in a while. Levi Brown reminds me of D'Brickashaw Ferguson, good, safe bet to be a long term starter, but his "Ogden Potential" is no where near Thomas'.


First of all, who says he has to ride the pine for two years? Second, I haven't seen a single scout who claims this draft class for D-line guys is the best, or one of the best in NFL history. I've heard that it's deep at the top of the draft for D-line guys, which is not the same thing.
I scout the draft myself. I see the chance for 7 first rounders, last time that happened no other DLs went in the first day, but this year another 10 could go before the end of round three, if not more. Thats damn impressive and stacks up well with any draft class in recent history.

Second, go back and check the past drafts, starting with last years...and see what historically Mike Shanahan has done when a particular position is considered the deep area of the draft. Last year was a great example. The 2006 draft was considered strong with O-line guys, which you would have thought would mean we went with those guys high in the draft right? Wrong. Shanahan does exactly the opposite. He ignores the top of the draft at positions where the draft is considered strong and waits for prospects to filter down to the 4th or 5th round. Instead of going O-line last year in the 2nd round, he waited till we got Kuper and Eslinger on the 2nd day. So don't think that just because D-line guys are plentiful we'll be getting one. I'm betting that we don't even draft a D-line guy till at least the 3rd or 4th round. Shanahan seems to be using the philosophy that you take players at positions of scarce talent first, then worry about those that are stocked with more talent. I don't agree with it but that's usually how it works out. That's why half this board always goes WTF??? in the 1st round on draft day.
What about 2005, a deep CB class where Shanahan traded down then took three straight CBs drawing plenty of "what the ****s?" on here and from draft analysts all over the country? Deep position, Shanahan exploited it. Last year's class was deep in general. Shanahan blew a big part of his load to get his franchise QB, then drafted for need (Scheffler and Dumervil) and took value when it was on the board with Kuper and Eslinger.


Lepsis is not a former All-Pro. I can't even find him listed as a pro bowl player, though I seem to remember he was named an alternate once or twice...whatever...he's underated and he's a fit for our system, but he's not a power player. He's a bulked up tight end with mobility who fits our system and pass blocks well but apart from being a good cut blocker, he's not a great run blocking tackle who can drive people off the ball at 290 pounds. He's good for what he does...I'm not disputing that. But there's no reason to assume he's "good for another two or three years" as you suggest. He may not even make it back for this year. You just said yourself that Lepsis' game isn't predicated on physical ability but technique. Doesn't that mean its more likely he'll come back from an injury he's had plenty of time to rehab from? Seems like it.

Pears has not "proven himself". I saw a lot of plays where he struggled. He gets props for being a hard working UFA who has slowly come on but to suggest he's what we want protecting our franchise QB's blind side for the next 10 years is a big stretch. He MIGHT be a decent player, or he might be a one year wonder. Pears played out of position, after a summer in NFLE (not in a zone blocking system) and without any camp time with the first unit and still outplayed Cooper, Foster, and what little we saw Meadows down the stretch. Is he a franchise LT? Hell no, he's looking like an RT we can plug in and ride for 5-6 years though. Nothing wrong with that.

It make sense because if you fill ALL those needs and lose Jay Cutler you're basically screwed. Second, the running game has noticably slowed, and part of the reason is our O-line does not resemble the dominant force it once did. Pears covered Cutler's backside all five starts and never got him killed. Foster did that more than anyone else and his ass will be kissing bench this year. You seem paranoid that Cutler is going to get hurt, its football man. Lepsis has been great for years, Meadows is capable, between the two they'll keep Cutler's blind side covered.


He's been a careeer underachiever who never stayed healthy or lived up to his billing and he flat out sucks. Good news is that no...that's not my only solution...getting rid of him...I want to draft some other O-lne guys with size as well. Gimme a couple 330 pound+ guys at the guard spots and Nalen's replacement as well. We need to turn this entire O-line over in the next two years or we're facing a big problem with trying to 1) protect Jay Cutler and 2) continue to compete with the same philosophy. NFL rules changes are in the wind that may outlaw cut blocking entirely by next season and this team is not prepared for that. Even if it doesn't happen, we can't block for the run in the red zone, we can't adequately pass block, and we get manhandled by the Chargers D-line whenever we play them.
Yeah, sure, cut blocking is going to be outlawed. Same crap we hear year after year yet more teams are ripping off our blocking system every year. Face it, the NFL isn't touching the cut block rules, it produced big running games and that scores points, which the NFL league office loves.

Last time everyone wanted to get make a bigger OL we drafted George Foster, you don't seem real positive in the aftermath of that decision. But we are getting bigger on the line. Pears is bigger than our RTs typically were pre-Foster, Kuper is another 300+ pounder, Myers as well. Even Eslinger, who's supposed to be undersized, outweighs Nalen and Hamilton.

The Chargers' DL doesn't manhandle our line either, we just don't cover 3-4 OLBs for ****. Thats largely because Foster was too much of a fat ass to pick anyone up, our TEs block like ****, and none of our HBs can handle pass pro.

Our line will get a little bigger, soon everyone on it will be over 300 pounds, and that'll improve our red zone offense. Until we make a full transition though a guy like Fonoti, or even Foster if he gets his ass in gear, will help our red zone. Better yet though, why not see how a QB who can rifle a ball between defenders does in short yardage?

[Broncoman13]

FS...Many of the top draft prospects choose to not work out at the national scouting combine, preferring instead to participate in individual workouts with teams and scouts. We will be updating this page frequently with news from the individual workouts.


Alabama RB Shaun Alexander ran a 4.49 40 at a recent workout.

Penn State LB LaVar Arrington ran a 4.49 40 yard dash and teammate Courtney Brown was timed at 4.53.

Florida State WR Peter Warrick ran a sub-par 40 at his workout. Many scouts timed him in the mid 4.5 range, with one scout having him as high as 4.61.

Michigan State WR Plaxico Burress disappointed with a 4.6 40 yard dash.

Florida WR Travis Taylor ran 4.43 40 yard dash.

Wisconsin RB Ron Dayne weighing in at 250 ran an impressive 4.53 40 yard dash.

Syracuse LB Keith Bulluck ran a 4.43 40 yard dash and teammate Quinton Spotwood ran a 4.35.

Virginia Tech DE John Engelberger ran a 4.56 40 yard dash.

Tennessee RB Jamal Lewis ran a draw dropping 4.37 in the 40 yard dash. Lewis later said, "I just wanted to run like a 4.38 or a 4.39. A lot of teams thought I was running like a 4.5 or 4.6, so I just had to prove them wrong."

West Virgina WR Jerry Porter impressed scouts, running a 4.34 40 yard dash.

Virginia RB Thomas Jones was impressive in his workout, running a 4.43 40 yard dash, a 35" vertical and a 10'4" long jump he also benched 225 lbs 24 times. Should easily go in the top ten probably to the Cardinals.

Miami TE Daniel Franks ran a 4.85 40 yards dash. A little slower then most scouts were expecting.




Jamal Lewis is coming off of two injury plagued seasons. Dealing with ankle injuries is tough on anybody that has to walk let alone run, let alone run as a 235-245 lb freight train! Jamal Lewis probably doesn't run int he 4.3's any more, that much I would agree with. But saying that he's washed up and incapable b/c of ankle injuries is BS. There's a much higher chance he'll be successful than fail at his next stop. As for running schemes, you never know. He was one of the best in the league at running up the middle and breaking a run outside. If healthy, I'd love to see him in Orange n Blue... character issues aside.

[2KBack]

Damn, Courtney Brown was a freak, that's too bad

[Bronco_Beerslug]

we have gotten arrogant when it comes to the run game...we feel like we plug anyone there and we're good....
Some of us mentioned this going into the 2006 season.

[2KBack]

Some of us mentioned this going into the 2006 season.

I think inconsistancy is a major factor in this. The last guy to start in back to back seasons was Clinton Portis.