U.S. on List of UNICEF's Worst Countries for Kids

[Bronco_Beerslug]

And GB too. Surprising.

----------------------------------------------------------
U.S. on List of UNICEF's Worst Countries for Kids (http://tinyurl.com/3b7xyz)
by Rob Gifford
Read the UNICEF Report
* An Overview of Child Well-Being

All Things Considered, February 14, 2007 · A new report from the U.N. Children's Fund says the United States and Britain are the worst countries in the industrialized world in which to be a child. UNICEF says an examination of 40 factors, such as poverty, deprivation, happiness, relationships, and risky or bad behavior puts the United States and Britain at the bottom of a list of 21 economically developed nations.

The UNICEF report sought to assess children's well-being in developed countries by measuring a number of factors, including health, education, poverty, family relationships, and bad or risky behavior. Children were also asked to say whether they were happy.

In the overall table of children's well-being, the Netherlands comes out on top, followed closely by the Scandinavian countries, which also have highly developed welfare systems. At the bottom are the United States at No. 20, and Britain at No. 21.

It's not that developed welfare states necessarily have happier children, says David Parker of UNICEF.

"I think what we know from history in the U.S.," Parker says, "is that it's not necessarily how the welfare is provided but the nature of the support. One of the key things is that the role of government is important, but the entire society must have at its heart the idea of improving child well-being."

The United States fared worst of all 21 countries in health and safety, measured by rates of infant mortality and accidents and injuries.

The United States and Britain were lowest overall in the category of behavior and risks, meaning that American and British children are more likely to use drugs, drink alcohol and be sexually active than children elsewhere.

Professor Jonathan Bradshaw from the University of York in England led the research into the project. He was scathing about the failures of successive British governments.

"We've failed to invest in child health, in child education, in child care," Bradshaw says. "It's the result of neglect, which other countries have not done… they've just spent more on their children, despite the fact they're not as rich as we are."

In almost all the categories, poorer nations such as Poland and the Czech Republic fared better than the United States and Britain.

[Rohirrim]

Not to mention that we build our neighborhoods for cars, not for kids.

[Spider]

I have`shared this story before , but I will repeat it again .............
When me and the wife found out about the triplets , they sent us to denver , Denver looked her over and said , the babies have a 25% of surviving ......
we had the option of doing a baby reduction , aborting the 2 girls ....... I blew up .....so we went back to Casper , started looking for another doctor , found 1 in Billings montana , he told the wife , meet him in Sheridan Wyoming , he will see what he can do .........
He looked her over and said he could help , but we would have ot stay in Billings , My wife and the babies had to be monitored 2 times daily ........
Make a long story short , Billings Doctor came through on his word , Babies were born in Denver cause of the hospital situation ............but all three are here , I guess my point is , there is great help out there , you just have to search for it ......

[Bronco Bob]

"I think what we know from history in the U.S.," Parker says, "is that it's not necessarily how the welfare is provided but the nature of the support. One of the key things is that the role of government is important, but the entire society must have at its heart the idea of improving child well-being."


You mean it takes a village? :peace:

[enjolras]

Not to mention that we build our neighborhoods for cars, not for kids.

This is absolutely one of the biggest problems facing us today. I get to travel quite a bit, and as such I've been in a lot of cities around the world. I've yet to visit a 'perfect' place, but I think we're failing when it comes to designing engaging, practical, and useful places to live.

I really want to get into why.. but it's a long long post:) I will say that I'm greatly encouraged by a few newer developments. Stapleton is going to be a model for suburban development and the emergence of mixed used developments ('The Shops at Legacy' in Plano Texas is a great example) within the suburban grid also gives me great hope that we can create places to live that actually encourage a healthy lifestyle, rather than the fast food culture our outer areas suffer from today.

[RaiderH8r]

"In almost all the categories, poorer nations such as Poland and the Czech Republic fared better..."

That's because they have lollipop trees and gumdrop buttons. Mmmmm....gumdrop buttons.....alllrrrghhhh....

[spdirty]

this is stupid. Sit there and compare a country as big as ours with so many different cultures and areas as ours against countries that are as big as Rhode Island, so you can see all our warts from areas that are bad for kids. Instead of just doing the United States, they should put different states up against these other countries. Like to see how Colorado compares to the Netherlands.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

this is stupid. Sit there and compare a country as big as ours with so many different cultures and areas as ours against countries that are as big as Rhode Island, so you can see all our warts from areas that are bad for kids. Instead of just doing the United States, they should put different states up against these other countries. Like to see how Colorado compares to the Netherlands.

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like the results.





http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/3928/rankingez4.jpg

[TailgateNut]

this is stupid. Sit there and compare a country as big as ours with so many different cultures and areas as ours against countries that are as big as Rhode Island, so you can see all our warts from areas that are bad for kids. Instead of just doing the United States, they should put different states up against these other countries. Like to see how Colorado compares to the Netherlands.

WTF does land mass and population have to do with a study which is based on averages.

Overall we, being an industrial nation do not manage one of our most important recources well. Our children are our future, but so many citizens have the "all is well" attitude, because "all is well" in their little world, that we are not nurturing that resource.

Who needs healthcare, education, family support, a safe enviroment. Only the wealthy? We are creating so many problems in our future by neglecting what should be one of the most important responsibilities.

[enjolras]

Overall we, being an industrial nation do not manage one of our most important recources well. Our children are our future, but so many citizens have the "all is well" attitude, because "all is well" in their little world, that we are not nurturing that resource.

That's the price of the black and white culture we've become. When there is only a right or wrong, then we can only see things in extremes.

The root of the problem is that for a great many people, suggesting that America could be better is the same as saying that America is bad. It's where the whole 'the left hates America' rhetoric COMES from.

[RaiderH8r]

Maybe we need lemonade springs? That would be nice for the children.

"Won't somebody please thing of the children?"
-Helen Lovejoy

[W*GS]

Studies like this are very susceptible to how the categories are chosen and the various weights attached to them. They're not terribly interesting - an agenda exists beforehand, and statistics are created to support it.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Studies like this are very susceptible to how the categories are chosen and the various weights attached to them. They're not terribly interesting - an agenda exists beforehand, and statistics are created to support it.Yeah, this seems to always be the case when the U.S. does so poorly in these studies. It sure couldn't be because it's actually true.

[Garcia Bronco]

Unicef can take a leap.

[Spider]

Unicef can take a leap.

see this is what it all about , you helped **** this country , Billions of Dollars in Iraq , Taliban making a come back , we could have used the money in Iraq , to help here .......... you know this to be self evident and true

[cutthemdown]

I have`shared this story before , but I will repeat it again .............
When me and the wife found out about the triplets , they sent us to denver , Denver looked her over and said , the babies have a 25% of surviving ......
we had the option of doing a baby reduction , aborting the 2 girls ....... I blew up .....so we went back to Casper , started looking for another doctor , found 1 in Billings montana , he told the wife , meet him in Sheridan Wyoming , he will see what he can do .........
He looked her over and said he could help , but we would have ot stay in Billings , My wife and the babies had to be monitored 2 times daily ........
Make a long story short , Billings Doctor came through on his word , Babies were born in Denver cause of the hospital situation ............but all three are here , I guess my point is , there is great help out there , you just have to search for it ......

My sister was told to abort my nephew because he had a kidney not formed, and they were thinking the other one looked bad also. She went to another doctor that said we can operate 9 mos after birth and remove bad kidney, put baby on antibiotics to stem infection from it, fix the other kidney and baby will have great chance. Long story short I'm taking my Nephew to see the Jazz Crusaders on sat night. But I still think America is a great place to raise your kids.

[cutthemdown]

see this is what it all about , you helped **** this country , Billions of Dollars in Iraq , Taliban making a come back , we could have used the money in Iraq , to help here .......... you know this to be self evident and true

that money would not have been spent if not for war. Don't go thinking politicians would have given 400 billion to anyone but there own pet projects just like always. You really are fooled thinking there is much difference between being led by dems or repubs. They are mostly all the same and nothing changes.

[Spider]

My sister was told to abort my nephew because he had a kidney not formed, and they were thinking the other one looked bad also. She went to another doctor that said we can operate 9 mos after birth and remove bad kidney, put baby on antibiotics to stem infection from it, fix the other kidney and baby will have great chance. Long story short I'm taking my Nephew to see the Jazz Crusaders on sat night. But I still think America is a great place to raise your kids.

good news about your Nephew , but you are one jingolistic son of a bítch , I never said America wasnt great , but we could and should do better

[Spider]

that money would not have been spent if not for war. Don't go thinking politicians would have given 400 billion to anyone but there own pet projects just like always. You really are fooled thinking there is much difference between being led by dems or repubs. They are mostly all the same and nothing changes.

a few differences , Clinton put more Money into Education keeping cost down , and more into Medicare .......

[cutthemdown]

a few differences , Clinton put more Money into Education keeping cost down , and more into Medicare .......

you may find this suprising but I think Clinton did a lot of good things. He especially was good as far as not going crazy spending money. Really he was closer to a republican then the last dem before him Carter. I also thought the whole going after him for lying about sex was really, really stupid and was one of the political instances that made me feel things will never change. No matter what the opposite party will attack the President in office first chance they get. All those dems kissed Bushes ass until his approval rating fell and they could get away with bashing him.

[Spider]

you may find this suprising but I think Clinton did a lot of good things. He especially was good as far as not going crazy spending money. Really he was closer to a republican then the last dem before him Carter. I also thought the whole going after him for lying about sex was really, really stupid and was one of the political instances that made me feel things will never change. No matter what the opposite party will attack the President in office first chance they get. All those dems kissed Bushes ass until his approval rating fell and they could get away with bashing him.
I agree , I dont want Bush impeached , tit for tat has to go ........

[defenseman]

you may find this suprising but I think Clinton did a lot of good things. He especially was good as far as not going crazy spending money. Really he was closer to a republican then the last dem before him Carter. I also thought the whole going after him for lying about sex was really, really stupid and was one of the political instances that made me feel things will never change. No matter what the opposite party will attack the President in office first chance they get. All those dems kissed Bushes ass until his approval rating fell and they could get away with bashing him.


He freaking "carved" up the military in the process. Where it really counted I might add. Bubble gum and spit and you may survive. You have no idea...dman

[TailgateNut]

He freaking "carved" up the military in the process. Where it really counted I might add. Bubble gum and spit and you may survive. You have no idea...dman

:spit: What a joke. It's the BJ that bothers you, isn't it. Jealousy isn't an admirable trait!

[Spider]

:spit: What a joke. It's the BJ that bothers you, isn't it. Jealousy isn't an admirable trait!
The question I keep asking and getting no answer to is ..... If Clinton carved up the Military so badly , then whos military did we use to take Baghdad in less then 2 weeks ?

[Rohirrim]

He freaking "carved" up the military in the process. Where it really counted I might add. Bubble gum and spit and you may survive. You have no idea...dman

I know you love to repeat that line over and over, and will probably continue to do so no matter what anybody else says, but you should know, it's a myth. The fact is, some of the biggest military cuts that took place were engineered by Cheney and Rumsfeld under Bush 1's watch. Here's a nice overview of the process, circa 1999.

http://www.govexec.com/features/0199/0199defense.htm

Of course, now we have to really worry that our military may not be able to recover from Bush II's mis-adventures. The truth is, we still spend the majority of our GDP on the military. And now the Bush cabal wants to convince us that "the terrorists" are even more dangerous than the USSR was, and that we should give the military a carte blanche credit card, and spend even more on newer weapons systems because we're under even greater threats, and the threat grows every day, and Oceania will never be safe, etc. etc. etc.

[TailgateNut]

I know you love to repeat that line over and over, and will probably continue to do so no matter what anybody else says, but you should know, it's a myth. The fact is, some of the biggest military cuts that took place were engineered by Cheney and Rumsfeld under Bush 1's watch. Here's a nice overview of the process, circa 1999.

http://www.govexec.com/features/0199/0199defense.htm

Of course, now we have to really worry that our military may not be able to recover from Bush II's mis-adventures. The truth is, we still spend the majority of our GDP on the military. And now the Bush cabal wants to convince us that "the terrorists" are even more dangerous than the USSR was, and that we should give the military a carte blanche credit card, and spend even more on newer weapons systems because we're under even greater threats, and the threat grows every day, and Oceania will never be safe, etc. etc. etc.

Futile! Totally futile to convice D-man (with hard evindence)! I believe he may be upset because his Submarine didn't get that new paintjob he thought it should during Clintons stint!

[defenseman]

Futile! Totally futile to convice D-man (with hard evindence)! I believe he may be upset because his Submarine didn't get that new paintjob he thought it should during Clintons stint!

Unfortunately it goes juusst a bit "deeper" than that, however can't get into specifics in this forum..dman

[TailgateNut]

Unfortunately it goes juusst a bit "deeper" than that, however can't get into specifics in this forum..dman

You make "blanket" statements, which are based on your experience, which in turn are not based on facts when looking at the whole picture. Just livin' in your own little world.

[defenseman]

You make "blanket" statements, which are based on your experience, which in turn are not based on facts when looking at the whole picture. Just livin' in your own little world.


Wrong. I can't discuss how he screwed us over in many cases, nasty cases I might add because I simply "can't" discuss them. I'm not interested in divulging information you or anyone else here should not be hearing, simple as that. You think what you want, makes no difference to me. The guy had NO FREAKING IDEA how to employ, supply or tactic his military, most freaking politicians don't have a clue on matters such as these......dman

[RaiderH8r]

I heard in Norway they have puppy dog tuesdays where you get to go to the park and play with puppies and women's farts smell like apple pie. Sweet.

[Spider]

I heard in Norway they have puppy dog tuesdays where you get to go to the park and play with puppies and women's farts smell like apple pie. Sweet.

you really need to quit listening to the voices in your head, they are pumpin you some bad info

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Wrong. I can't discuss how he screwed us over in many cases, nasty cases I might add because I simply "can't" discuss them. I'm not interested in divulging information you or anyone else here should not be hearing, simple as that. You think what you want, makes no difference to me. The guy had NO FREAKING IDEA how to employ, supply or tactic his military, most freaking politicians don't have a clue on matters such as these......dman

Then why did you bring it up? Your throwing sh*t against the walls gets tiresome. Bring on the facts or accept you can't back up your personal biases with the truth.

[RaiderH8r]

you really need to quit listening to the voices in your head, they are pumpin you some bad info

And Sweden has Free Toy Friday where all the kids can come out and get free toys and it's fun and nice and they have a picnic and....

My point is their criteria is crap. Subjective well being? Are you fvcking kidding me? Where the hell is the methodology to measure that? Material well being? That's where Free Toy Friday comes into play. And the sneakers with the lights in the heels, kids love that sh!t. Behaviors and risks? This is particularly funny because we have the evangelicals who say, don't do drugs, don't drink, don't have fun (whatever) and then the other side that throws out, don't judge man...it's cool, it's your life do what you want. Whatever, this is a horse**** feelgood study and until I examine the methodology I'm not going to take it seriously in the least bit.

[defenseman]

Then why did you bring it up? Your throwing sh*t against the walls gets tiresome. Bring on the facts or accept you can't back up your personal biases with the truth.

Let me spell it out for you, the same thing that the dems accuse Bush and the war machine of, sending troops in harms way, not fully outfitted in all respects is the EXACT same thing that happened to us under Clinton. FREAKING EXACTLY. Specifics? Sorry, unable to go there. I won't try to describe how and where. Perhaps in 30 or 40 yrs we'll all get to see what a FU he truley was wrt the military. It did happen, and consistently I might add, but the specfics simply cannot be discussed. Feel free to dismiss it, however, I will NEVER forgive the SOB for doing business that way..dman

[Spider]

And Sweden has Free Toy Friday where all the kids can come out and get free toys and it's fun and nice and they have a picnic and....

My point is their criteria is crap. Subjective well being? Are you f***ing kidding me? Where the hell is the methodology to measure that? Material well being? That's where Free Toy Friday comes into play. And the sneakers with the lights in the heels, kids love that sh!t. Behaviors and risks? This is particularly funny because we have the evangelicals who say, don't do drugs, don't drink, don't have fun (whatever) and then the other side that throws out, don't judge man...it's cool, it's your life do what you want. Whatever, this is a horse**** feelgood study and until I examine the methodology I'm not going to take it seriously in the least bit.

So what are you saying ? ;D

[Bronco_Beerslug]

For those who didn't read the pdf, here are a few more charts...

----------------------------------------------------------------




http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/4359/graph3qr6.jpg





http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/4020/graph4iz9.jpg




http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3834/graph1sw5.jpg




http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/5315/graph4uk9.jpg

[RaiderH8r]

So what are you saying ? ;D

We've got tough little bastards here. And if they manage to make it to adulthood, chances are they will improve the gene pool. We're not coddling pansies like the Europeans and one day it will pay off in spades....as long as you Demoncrats stop insisting we coddle pansies of course.!Booya!

[Spider]

We've got tough little bastards here. And if they manage to make it to adulthood, chances are they will improve the gene pool. We're not coddling pansies like the Europeans and one day it will pay off in spades....as long as you Demoncrats stop insisting we coddle pansies of course.!Booya!

In other words ? ;D

[Bronco Bob]

Wrong. I can't discuss how he screwed us over in many cases, nasty cases I might add because I simply "can't" discuss them. I'm not interested in divulging information you or anyone else here should not be hearing, simple as that. You think what you want, makes no difference to me. The guy had NO FREAKING IDEA how to employ, supply or tactic his military, most freaking politicians don't have a clue on matters such as these......dman

Yet Clinton was able to win the Kosovo war which led to the overthrow of a
brutal dictator without the death of a single US combat soldier. Give me Clinton's military incompetance over a brilliant military strategist like Bush jr. any day.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Let me spell it out for you, the same thing that the dems accuse Bush and the war machine of, sending troops in harms way, not fully outfitted in all respects is the EXACT same thing that happened to us under Clinton. FREAKING EXACTLY. Specifics? Sorry, unable to go there. I won't try to describe how and where. Perhaps in 30 or 40 yrs we'll all get to see what a FU he truley was wrt the military. It did happen, and consistently I might add, but the specfics simply cannot be discussed. Feel free to dismiss it, however, I will NEVER forgive the SOB for doing business that way..dman

Hilarious!

Some enlisted Navy man telling me he knows top secret BS about Clinton not giving him a new rudder for his boat....... Classic!!!!!

Are you really that ignorant not to know that every military spending measure either passed, failed or proposed during his administration isn't public knowledge?

[RaiderH8r]

What do those things have to do with anything slug? Except to point out that Socialist countries rank worse than the US for households without an unemployed parent...which one would think would be a factor in Material Well Being....since...you know...money buys things. But yet these same countries rank higher than the US in the overall metric. Why is that?

[RaiderH8r]

Hilarious!

Some enlisted Navy man telling me he knows top secret BS about Clinton not giving him a new rudder for his boat....... Classic!!!!!

Ask JFK about working a rudder, it's harder than you might think.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

What do those things have to do with anything slug? Except to point out that Socialist countries rank worse than the US for households without an unemployed parent...which one would think would be a factor in Material Well Being....since...you know...money buys things. But yet these same countries rank higher than the US in the overall metric. Why is that?Read the pdf and report back. At least then you have read their criteria.

Ask JFK about working a rudder, it's harder than you might think.:)
I bet he didn't b*tch about it on the Internet's though.

[RaiderH8r]

Read the pdf and report back.

I checked with leading experts and we agree, I didn't bring it up so I don't have to defend it. I can just make comments from the peanut gallery. You want me to believe? Sell me on the idea.

If only AlGore had been around before JFK he could have looked up how to work his boat on the internets and saved himself from a lifetime of debilitating pain. Oh AlGore, why do you hate JFK?

[Garcia Bronco]

see this is what it all about , you helped **** this country , Billions of Dollars in Iraq , Taliban making a come back , we could have used the money in Iraq , to help here .......... you know this to be self evident and true

The money we are spending in the Middle east is fine. the problem here is too many people having children that cannot take care of them properly.

[defenseman]

Hilarious!

Some enlisted Navy man telling me he knows top secret BS about Clinton not giving him a new rudder for his boat....... Classic!!!!!

Are you really that ignorant not to know that every military spending measure either passed, failed or proposed during his administration isn't public knowledge?

We are done. and you are done. You my friend have crossed the wrong bridge...dman

[Spider]

The money we are spending in the Middle east is fine. the problem here is too many people having children that cannot take care of them properly.

hiel Hitler .......sorry to question Deh Furor ..........

[RaiderH8r]

hiel Hitler .......sorry to question Deh Furor ..........

Our first Hitler rebuttal. This thread is officially dead.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

We are done. and you are done. You my friend have crossed the wrong bridge...dman
I don't cross bridges I can't get back over unlike some. I'm waiting for your attempt to get back over this one.

[Spider]

Our first Hitler rebuttal. This thread is officially dead.

well they do think alike

[defenseman]

I don't cross bridges I can't get back over unlike some. I'm waiting for your attempt to get back over this one.

If you choose not to accept a point of view, that is your call. And to have brought it up was remiss on my part as I simply can't discuss it. We are done with this, move on......dman

[RaiderH8r]

well they do think alike

I know my posting has been sporadic lately, but I'm pretty sure Garcia's never proposed a "Final Solution".

At any rate, Reducto Ad Hitlerum, no further substantive discussion can now take place.

[Spider]

I know my posting has been sporadic lately, but I'm pretty sure Garcia's never proposed a "Final Solution".

At any rate, Reducto Ad Hitlerum, no further substantive discussion can now take place.

anyone that thinks the spending in Iraq is fine doesnt deserve a benifit of a doubt

[Garcia Bronco]

hiel Hitler .......sorry to question Deh Furor ..........

First off....population control is going to be a huge problem very soon, and I think you'll see a natural correction soon. It's already a big problem. Second...it's spelled der Führer.

[Garcia Bronco]

well they do think alike

No we don't. I am just being realistic about a planet that has finite resources.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

And some more charts from the pdf.....

----------------------------------------------------------------


http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/5421/graph1of4.jpg




http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2300/graph2iq7.jpg




http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/6260/graph3pt4.jpg





http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5199/graph4gh1.jpg

[Spider]

First off....population control is going to be a huge problem very soon, and I think you'll see a natural correction soon. It's already a big problem.. so what in the hell does that have to do with wasting Billions in Iraq ???



Second...it's spelled der Führer.
take your word for it ...........

[Spider]

No we don't. I am just being realistic about a planet that has finite resources.

huh uh .......

[Garcia Bronco]

so what in the hell does that have to do with wasting Billions in Iraq ???






You brought it up, Spider.

[Spider]

You brought it up, Spider.

I bought up it is one hellva waste, you said it was fine .............

[Spider]

Hey GB are you one of these guys that fakes a disability to stay stateside while cheering on Population control via war ?

[Bronco Bob]

First off....population control is going to be a huge problem very soon, and I think you'll see a natural correction soon. It's already a big problem.

This is true. China recognized the problem years ago and instituted the
One Family - One Child policy. It caught a lot of flak from both the
left and the right from around the world. But China has managed to
stabilize their population, which has played a large role in their becomming
the economic powerhouse they are today.

[Garcia Bronco]

Hey GB are you one of these guys that fakes a disability to stay stateside while cheering on Population control via war ?

You've got your parties muddled up. That's not what I said and you know it, or you are unable to follow the conversation.

I am in favor of limiting child births via the law and registration.

I am in favor of the War, because those bastards have it coming.

I am not in favor of war for the sake of population control.

I was accepted to VMI, and would have gone into service as a second Lou. However, they would not take me, nor would the service because I cannot pass a physical due to a completely reconstructed left elbow. It consists of 2 metal plates 14 screws, a large bolt, and a wire wrapped around it.

[Garcia Bronco]

This is true. China recognized the problem years ago and instituted the
One Family - One Child policy. It caught a lot of flak from both the
left and the right from around the world. But China has managed to
stabilize their population, which has played a large role in their becomming
the economic powerhouse they are today.

China still has a huge problem...too many males.

[Garcia Bronco]

I bought up it is one hellva waste, you said it was fine .............

I don't have a problem with our presence in th eME, you do

[Spider]

You've got your parties muddled up. That's not what I said and you know it, or you are unable to follow the conversation. you said the money spent over there was fine ...... huge problem ........

I am in favor of limiting child births via the law and registration.
so long land of the free ..........

I am in favor of the War, because those bastards have it coming. How did the Iraqis have it coming ?

I am not in favor of war for the sake of population control. sop then why are we in Iraq ?

I was accepted to VMI, and would have gone into service as a second Lou. However, they would not take me, nor would the service because I cannot pass a physical due to a completely reconstructed left elbow. It consists of 2 metal plates 14 screws, a large bolt, and a wire wrapped around it.
try now , word is there are taking anyone with a heartbeat and under the age of 42

[Spider]

I don't have a problem with our presence in th eME, you do

I said Iraq , cant you bring yourself to say the Money in Iraq is well spent ?

[Bronco Bob]

China still has a huge problem...too many males.

Wouldn't this tend to help population control? After all, not very many human males are capable of having a baby. :clown:
It's a culteral artifact of peasant cultures males are more prized because they are better able to work the land. Thus if you are limited to one child, you go with the male.

[Garcia Bronco]

"you said the money spent over there was fine ...... huge problem ........"

I disagree and you brought it up on the first page on this thread


"so long land of the free .......... "

No it's not. Look...just because you decided to start a tribe and you can provide doesn't mean that others can do the same. It will eventually be in our best interest to limit population growth, because we will not have the resources to sustain it.

"How did the Iraqis have it coming ?"

This is where your lack of education comes into play with regards to history. Muslims have declared war on us as a country since the late 1700's and 1800's. This is long over due, and we should take the gloves off. Thonas Jefferson had to send soldiers over there to tell them to **** off. They hate us because we are not warlord practicing muslims.

I have checked....they will still not take me as of 02, and unfortunately that ship has sailed. I have helpped my citizens in many other ways as a fundraiser. Not a tom of cash, but I little over half a mill for the United Way. Which actully helps US Children, as opposed to UNICEF

[Garcia Bronco]

Wouldn't this tend to help population control? After all, not very many human males are capable of having a baby. :clown:
It's a culteral artifact of peasant cultures males are more prized because they are better able to work the land. Thus if you are limited to one child, you go with the male.

Now China has said...you can only have one child period. I don't know if they can still pay the fee though. It would seem that more males would help their end of it. But I think it will cause a great deal of civil unrest.

[Garcia Bronco]

I said Iraq , cant you bring yourself to say the Money in Iraq is well spent ?

It's all the same problem. All of those countries because they are muslim are a threat. Islam is not a peaceful religion it was founded by a warlord. There is no difference. And until the "peaceful" muslims start seriously fighting the "unpeaceful" muslims...they should all be considered the same and dealt with in the same manner.

[Spider]

I disagree and you brought it up on the first page on this thread
you did say spending money over there was fine .........



No it's not. Look...just because you decided to start a tribe and you can provide doesn't mean that others can do the same. It will eventually be in our best interest to limit population growth, because we will not have the resources to sustain it. So what would be the punishment for those that break the law ? abortion ? termination of the babies life when it is born ? orphanages? long jail time to those that have kids without the governments permission ?


This is where your lack of education comes into play with regards to history. Muslims have declared war on us as a country since the late 1700's and 1800's. This is long over due, and we should take the gloves off. Thonas Jefferson had to send soldiers over there to tell them to **** off. They hate us because we are not warlord practicing muslims. and this has what to do with Iraq here and now ?

I have checked....they will still not take me as of 02, and unfortunately that ship has sailed. I have helpped my citizens in many other ways as a fundraiser. Not a tom of cash, but I little over half a mill for the United Way. Which actully helps US Children, as opposed to UNICEF

Perhaps the next war will be a better one for you to get in ........... Props for giving to the united way .......

[Spider]

It's all the same problem. All of those countries because they are muslim are a threat. Islam is not a peaceful religion it was founded by a warlord. There is no difference. And until the "peaceful" muslims start seriously fighting the "unpeaceful" muslims...they should all be considered the same and dealt with in the same manner.

Iraq was no threat .........

[Bronco Bob]

It's all the same problem. All of those countries because they are muslim are a threat. Islam is not a peaceful religion it was founded by a warlord.

Who, Muhammad? Muhammed started out as a shepherd and later became a merchant.
It wasn't until his forties that he became a religious prophet and started
preaching a religion based on the one God concept of Judaism and Christianity.
At that time the Arabs were pagens and had many temples to worship their
various gods. They saw what Muhammad was teaching as a threat to their
profits and tried to kill him and his followers (sound familiar). Only instead
of passively waiting to be slaughtered, they fled from Mecca to Medina.
When the Meccans tried to invade Medina is when Muhammed and his
followers took up arms to defend themselves and eventually turned the
tables and conquered Mecca. So when Islam was founded, Muhammed
was still just a religious prophet, not a warlord.

[defenseman]

Iraq was no threat .........

Not according to broomhillary in 2002, and many others I might add..dman

[Spider]

Not according to broomhillary in 2002, and many others I might add..dman

thats not the bottom line , doesnt matter who said what , bottom line is Iraq was no threat
I cant vote for Obama , I wont vote for Hillary , that leaves Biden

[Bronco Bob]

thats not the bottom line , doesnt matter who said what , bottom line is Iraq was no threat
I cant vote for Obama , I wont vote for Hillary , that leaves Biden

Biden bloviates in public too much to ever get elected.

[Spider]

Biden bloviates in public too much to ever get elected.

I agree , but I have no other choice

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Not according to broomhillary in 2002, and many others I might add..dmanUnlike Bush she admitted she swallowed the BS on Iraq.

[Garcia Bronco]

Iraq was no threat .........

They are all a threat

[Garcia Bronco]

Unlike Bush she admitted she swallowed the BS on Iraq.

Doesn't matter...if you believe Bush is wrong then she is equally wrong for voting for it and you need to hold her accountable in the same way you hold the President. Otherwise you are only playing politics to serve your own self interests.

[Spider]

They are all a threat

Says who ? Bush ? yeah he got a winning track record

[Garcia Bronco]

Who, Muhammad? Muhammed started out as a shepherd and later became a merchant.
It wasn't until his forties that he became a religious prophet and started
preaching a religion based on the one God concept of Judaism and Christianity.
At that time the Arabs were pagens and had many temples to worship their
various gods. They saw what Muhammad was teaching as a threat to their
profits and tried to kill him and his followers (sound familiar). Only instead
of passively waiting to be slaughtered, they fled from Mecca to Medina.
When the Meccans tried to invade Medina is when Muhammed and his
followers took up arms to defend themselves and eventually turned the
tables and conquered Mecca. So when Islam was founded, Muhammed
was still just a religious prophet, not a warlord.


He used arms as a merchant to gain markets. He was a warlord, and definately a prophet of nothing.

[Garcia Bronco]

Biden bloviates in public too much to ever get elected.

All the democratic choices are terrible and Biden won't make it to the money round. My choices at this stage would be Romney or Rudy...maybe McCain. Obama might be the only guy I would consider of the Democrats...maybe Biden. Unfortunately I wouldn't feel comfortable with Obama because he lacks experience.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Doesn't matter...if you believe Bush is wrong then she is equally wrong for voting for it and you need to hold her accountable in the same way you hold the President. Otherwise you are only playing politics to serve your own self interests.
LOL

Geeeezus! Bush lies to Congress and you blame Congress for him lying to them. :rofl:

[W*GS]

This is true. China recognized the problem years ago and instituted the One Family - One Child policy. It caught a lot of flak from both the left and the right from around the world. But China has managed to stabilize their population, which has played a large role in their becomming the economic powerhouse they are today.

China has the most rapidly aging population on the planet, and an imbalance of tens of millions more men than women. They got a hell of pickle on their hands because of their one child policy.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

China has the most rapidly aging population on the planet, and an imbalance of tens of millions more men than women. They got a hell of pickle on their hands because of their one child policy.Yeah, that policy didn't work out too well. But the reason is the Chinese people choose to have males over females.

[defenseman]

LOL

Geeeezus! Bush lies to Congress and you blame Congress for him lying to them. :rofl:

It's my understanding that has not been proven? ...dman

[Bronco_Beerslug]

It's my understanding that has not been proven? ...dmanOnly if you watch and believe the lie known as Fox news.

[W*GS]

Yeah, this seems to always be the case when the U.S. does so poorly in these studies. It sure couldn't be because it's actually true.

Like I said, depending on how the criteria are chosen, and the weights given them, one could re-arrange UNICEF's list in just about any way one wanted. I've skimmed the PDF, and some of their choices upon which to base their rankings (and the method used to derive the rankings) are quite contestable.

Besides, IIRC, their top age was 19. 18- and 19-year-olds are young adults, not "kids", as the thread title says...

[defenseman]

Only if you watch and believe the lie known as Fox news.

No solid proof, no solid case. Isn't that the way it plays? Besides , IF it could have been proven, it would have by now, you know it, I know it. Ergo, no lie that I can see...dman

[Bronco_Beerslug]

No solid proof, no solid case. Isn't that the way it plays? Besides , IF it could have been proven, it would have by now, you know it, I know it. Ergo, no lie that I can see...dman
It's only been hashed over a 1000 times starting with Bush's lie of WMD, but yeah, since Fox says it's not really lying, it's OK.

[defenseman]

Only if you watch and believe the lie known as Fox news.

FOX has a new comedy show sunday nite. conservative humor I might add. Funny thing, the two anchors , when quizzed on what their personal politics were, would not divulge the info as such. However, accordingly the writers, all "two" of them if I recall correctly, are definitely conservative types and have been very successfully attached to a wide range of projects in the entertainment industry since I'm thinking early nineties. I'm looking forward to it. Give it a try...dman

*I like Colbert occassionally, and he is an actor. So are the two fox anchors. I'm hoping for some success here. Got to laugh every once in a while.

[Garcia Bronco]

LOL

Geeeezus! Bush lies to Congress and you blame Congress for him lying to them. :rofl:

It is the onus of congress to conduct it's own invesigation per checks and balances. They are the ones the vote. But I didn't need WMD for the beliefs that we need to go clean their clocks.

[Garcia Bronco]

Only if you watch and believe the lie known as Fox news.

The amusing part is you believe any of them. CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC, CBS, ESPN, and so on

[defenseman]

The amusing part is you believe any of them. CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC, CBS, ESPN, and so on

And, there you have it. And, none of them could produce the necessary evidence and make it stick. Case closed.....for now...dman

[TailgateNut]

And, there you have it. And, none of them could produce the necessary evidence and make it stick. Case closed.....for now...dman

We should stop wasting our time keeping up with the news. We can just come here and ask you, since you're the resident "know it all"!
I know I'll come back in 30 years and apologize to you after they release all of that top secret info wich are the basis of your hatred of WJC:rofl:

[defenseman]

We should stop wasting our time keeping up with the news. We can just come here and ask you, since you're the resident "know it all"!
I know I'll come back in 30 years and apologize to you after they release all of that top secret info wich are the basis of your hatred of WJC:rofl:

Hate WJC? Who's hating him, not me. Do I hold him accountable for some things , sure I do. BUT, I don't hate him. Nope, no need to go there..dman

*I reserve "hate" for a very select few. Terrorists come to mind. I don't hate anything though, very strong word evoking alot of emotion. WJC did disgust me on occassion though, he did some good things also, no denying that.

[yavoon]

Who, Muhammad? Muhammed started out as a shepherd and later became a merchant.
It wasn't until his forties that he became a religious prophet and started
preaching a religion based on the one God concept of Judaism and Christianity.
At that time the Arabs were pagens and had many temples to worship their
various gods. They saw what Muhammad was teaching as a threat to their
profits and tried to kill him and his followers (sound familiar). Only instead
of passively waiting to be slaughtered, they fled from Mecca to Medina.
When the Meccans tried to invade Medina is when Muhammed and his
followers took up arms to defend themselves and eventually turned the
tables and conquered Mecca. So when Islam was founded, Muhammed
was still just a religious prophet, not a warlord.

who tried to kill him? they certainly didnt like mohammed, but u have to understand arabia was not monolithic in its religion. there were pagans, jews, christians and zoroastrians. and certainly mohammed was never under any real durress, I mean he was in mecca for years preaching against the pagans religion w/o ever dying and w/ almost no followers.

originally mohammed tried to convert the jews, but the jews spurned him. he even originally told muslims to pray towards jerusalem. perhaps this explains in later life how he went around slaughtering jews, like a scorned lover or something.

also when mohammed fled to medina he hardly "took up arms to defend himself." he became a caravan raider. claiming by divine decree that he get 1/5th of all the booty, which included female slaves. the meccans sent an army to try and conquer him, he won a battle where he was outnumbered, then the meccans tried to lay siege to medina. that also failed, after all those failures and the raiding of the caravans the meccans were humiliated and spent and mohammed re entered mecca as its conquerer.

here's a cut and paste:

The Battle of Badr

The Meccans were upset by the Muslim attacks on their trading caravans. They met the Muslims at the Battle of Badr. The Muslims won, with the help of Allah and a thousand angels. Muhammad's position in Medina was consolidated and he could move against his enemies in Medina, particularly those who had written satirical poems about him. Several were assassinated.

The Battle of the Trench

In 627 AD , an even bigger army than the one at Badr attacked Medina. The inhabitants of Medina dug a trench and prepared for a siege. Even the last Jewish tribe in Medina , the Qurayza, co-operated, but on the whole remained neutral. For two weeks, the two armies traded insults over the trench. There were a few casualties among each side, but the attacking army did not fancy trying to cross the trench to meet the well-dug in Muslim forces. After 2 or 3 weeks, they simply went home.

There were far more casualties after the battle than before it, but more on that later.

Mecca

In the sacred month of Ramadan in 630 AD, Muhammad set out with an army of 10,000 men on Mecca. The Meccans realised that resistance was futile and Muhammad conquered Mecca with the loss of 2 or 3 on his side and about 20 or 30 on the Meccan side. Muhammad died 2 years later in June 632 AD.

[Spider]

word ..for shizzle my dizzle

[-Slap-]

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/3300/polandeagledy4.jpg

[ant1999e]

you may find this suprising but I think Clinton did a lot of good things. He especially was good as far as not going crazy spending money. Really he was closer to a republican then the last dem before him Carter. I also thought the whole going after him for lying about sex was really, really stupid and was one of the political instances that made me feel things will never change. No matter what the opposite party will attack the President in office first chance they get. All those dems kissed Bushes ass until his approval rating fell and they could get away with bashing him.

Agree 100%

[Bronco_Beerslug]

And, there you have it. And, none of them could produce the necessary evidence and make it stick. Case closed.....for now...dmanWhat a crock of sh*t! I task you to find outright lies by CNN, MSNBC, etc... that compares with the almost daily BS and lies Fox throws out to their brainwashed minions.

[Barry Ramey]

Yeah, CNN admitting they didn't broadcast stories of Hussein's daily killing and torture for fear of being run out of the country is real honest journalism. Also, them using fake photos in Lebanon that were given by those with ties to terrorist groups was also honest and telling the truth.

Lefties don't want to admit it, maybe their constant pleasure in showing sex and killing in their movies and TV shows so kids can see it since liberal parents say anything goes, not to mention video games, plus their disdane for making criminals actually be punished for crimes, not to mention child molesters constantly be given handslaps. Nah, all this points to making the country safe for kids. The liberals are doing such a great job at making this country great for kids.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Yeah, CNN admitting they didn't broadcast stories of Hussein's daily killing and torture for fear of being run out of the country is real honest journalism. Also, them using fake photos in Lebanon that were given by those with ties to terrorist groups was also honest and telling the truth.

Lefties don't want to admit it, maybe their constant pleasure in showing sex and killing in their movies and TV shows so kids can see it since liberal parents say anything goes, not to mention video games, plus their disdane for making criminals actually be punished for crimes, not to mention child molesters constantly be given handslaps. Nah, all this points to making the country safe for kids. The liberals are doing such a great job at making this country great for kids.

More BS from Fox fanboy. I put out the links for Fox's outright lies, where's your link to backup your ultra right wing BS?

[cutthemdown]

I said Iraq , cant you bring yourself to say the Money in Iraq is well spent ?

Oh my god to say the least. I just read 10 billion was wasted!!!!! Our government has never been good at not wasting money. It sure is hard to stomach 10 billion being misused. THE MONEY IN IRAQ HAS NOT BEEN SPENT WELL!!!!!!!!!!

[cutthemdown]

good news about your Nephew , but you are one jingolistic son of a bítch , I never said America wasnt great , but we could and should do better

I know you're patriotic and love your country. You won't get you have to agree to be a good American from me. I give a blanket support to war once our troops are there because my father served in Korea and Vietnam. Told me many many times how much the people back home being behind the effort means to soldiers. They want to feel like they are really doing it for America not just some guy in the white house. But I don't question your patriotism. Where we differ is on if the war is good or bad for America in the long run.

[cutthemdown]

More BS from Fox fanboy. I put out the links for Fox's outright lies, where's your link to backup your ultra right wing BS?

I agree fox is a shill for conservatives agenda, but cnn is just as bad the other way. Best thing to do is watch them both I guess and make up your own mind. On a lot of issues I'm very liberal, IE prison reform, healthcare, drug reform, pro choice. Then on others im very conservative IE military spending, states rights, small govt, no gay marriage, immigration control. Really there is no party for me!!!!!!!!!!! I have to just choose who I think comes closest.

[Spider]

I know you're patriotic and love your country. You won't get you have to agree to be a good American from me. I give a blanket support to war once our troops are there because my father served in Korea and Vietnam. Told me many many times how much the people back home being behind the effort means to soldiers. They want to feel like they are really doing it for America not just some guy in the white house. But I don't question your patriotism. Where we differ is on if the war is good or bad for America in the long run.

Fair enough , where I stand , and always stood is , the War is in Afghanistan , I thought the Taliban government should have faced Charges , brought to trial , OBL needed to be killed on the spot , no questions asked ......................

[Spider]

my father served in Korea and Vietnam.

My dad also served in Nam , he told me when I grew up , war should be the very, very last thing and that a true soldier is the last to want war , but the first to go fight , my dad is dead set against the Iraq war , we went in to get rid of 1 enemy , we wound up in a cross fire between 2 enemys and no allies , our Green zone is so small it is absurd , the men and women in our military are Americas Best , Brave men and women that dont want to die for us , but they will if called upon , to ask these people to jump into a meat grinder with no real way t detect the enemy is alot to ask ........ The fight is in Afghanistan

[cutthemdown]

My dad also served in Nam , he told me when I grew up , war should be the very, very last thing and that a true soldier is the last to want war , but the first to go fight , my dad is dead set against the Iraq war , we went in to get rid of 1 enemy , we wound up in a cross fire between 2 enemys and no allies , our Green zone is so small it is absurd , the men and women in our military are Americas Best , Brave men and women that dont want to die for us , but they will if called upon , to ask these people to jump into a meat grinder with no real way t detect the enemy is alot to ask ........ The fight is in Afghanistan

My dad passed away last Christmas but he saw enough of iraq to have an opinion for sure. He thought the comparisons between Iraq and Vietnam were laughable. 60 thousand troops killed is a meat grinder. 3000 like we have here is a deep scratch. My dad didn't necessarily feel we should have invaded Iraq, he just always felt once there you have to finish the job.

[Spider]

My dad passed away last Christmas but he saw enough of iraq to have an opinion for sure. He thought the comparisons between Iraq and Vietnam were laughable. 60 thousand troops killed is a meat grinder. 3000 like we have here is a deep scratch. My dad didn't necessarily feel we should have invaded Iraq, he just always felt once there you have to finish the job.

sorry to hear about your dad............my dad made the comparison as to the style of fighting .........ie guerrilla non uniformed enemy