Burger Bill: Turner Miami OC? C. Smith to Chiefs, Predator will walk, Sapp to stay.

[Natedogg]

Would hate to see Turner go. I always seeing our coaches (even assistant conditioning coaches) go to the kweefs. I'd like The Predator to stay as well. Still, Burger Bill's word is worth about a bag of crap. Sorry if this is a repost, didn't see it.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_5229280

Turner in running for Miami offensive coordinator
By Bill Williamson
Denver Post Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 02/14/2007 11:49:19 PM MST

Broncos running backs coach Bobby Turner, considered one of the best position coaches in the NFL, will interview for the Miami Dolphins' offensive coordinator position.

Turner confirmed his candidacy but declined to comment further. Turner has been Denver's running backs coach all 12 seasons of the Mike Shanahan era.

Shanahan has routinely lauded Turner for the work he has done with the Broncos' running backs.

Turner, 57, interviewed for the offensive coordinator position in New Orleans two years ago but was not offered the job.

Cam Cameron, the new Miami coach, already has interviewed several candidates for the job. It was initially believed Cameron, who was the offensive coordinator in San Diego, would hire a coordinator who also would work with the quarterbacks. However, the interview with Turner indicates Cameron could go in another direction. There appears to be no timetable for the hire.

There is speculation Cameron could wait in the wake of San Diego firing Marty Schottenheimer on Monday. If the new San Diego coach is allowed to hire his own staff, then current staff members could become available. Clarence Shelmon, who was promoted to replace Cameron in San Diego before Schottenheimer was fired, could interest Cameron if he becomes available.

Meanwhile, Broncos assistant strength and conditioning coach Cedric Smith will leave to become the Chiefs' head strength and conditioning coach. Smith was with Denver the past six seasons.

"This is about getting a bigger challenge, about enhancing my career," Smith said. "But it's hard to leave. It would be hard for me to think I've been with a better organization than the Denver Broncos."

Free agency

The Broncos haven't had recent serious talks with their prospective free agents but are expected to before free agency starts March 2. The team has a light free-agent class with defensive tackle Michael Myers and guard Cooper Carlisle the only starters on the list. Backup defensive end Patrick Chukwurah is not expected to return. Restricted free-agent fullback Cecil Sapp is expected to get a tender offer.

Bill Williamson can be reached at 303-820-1262 or bwilliamson@denverpost.com.

[Natedogg]

Can a mod please correct the title to Sapp to stay. Sorry guys.

:thanku:

[Atlas]

Can a mod please correct the title to Sapp to stay. Sorry guys.

:thanku:


you can edit it yourself.

just click on edit and then go to advance edit.

your welcome in advance.

[fontaine]

Man, I would hate to see Turner leave but given the amount of insane promotions we've seen to guys with a lot less history here like Slowik/Heimerdinger/Dennison etc, I could see how Turner would feel slightly snubbed.

Does Turner even have an understudy that could possibly, even think about doing the great job Turner does?

[chrisp]

Good point - as far as i understand it there's no-one who's specifically 'tagged' as his replacement, but there are a bunch of guys there who've been working together for years so hopefully we won't lose all of his coaching savvy.

Its a blow, no question, and overall I'd prefer him to stay. Having said that, the running game hasn't been what it was the last couple of years - still good by NFL standards, but a little down by our own - maybe Bobby Turner needs a change? It must be frustrating to do as good a job as you can possibly do at your postition and yet never seem to be in the running for more responsibility. I'm not suggesting that there was any rift between Turner and Shanny, or that there was major discontent on Turner's part, just that its hard to keep giving top committment year-in year-out if you don't feel like you're going anywhere.....

Reluctant as I am to lose possibly the best runningbacks coach the team if not the entire league has ever seen, it maybe that a change is best for both parties.

I'm also wondering if the MoC debacle rocked both his own confidence and his standing within the organisation - he's hit the bullseye so many times on players but on that one he blew out big time.......

[Odysseus]

I'm not as worried about Bobby Turner leaving as I am about him putting someone in there who is not even remotely credible. 12 years in one job is a long long time.

Cedric Smith to the Chiefs? That's interesting.

[watermock]

How many assistant head coaches can we have? **** it...lets make them all assistant head coaches.

We more than likely will take a RB in the first day...it would be nice to have Turner groom him, but that's coaching. It's mercenary when you can advance and I can't blame him.

When Nail hangs up his jock, I think he would be an excellent candidate. He has to know every blocking scheme etched in his mind. Plus, he barks out the blocking at the line.

Maybe if we match Miami's offer financially. I wonder if he knows how much this forum admires him.

[watermock]

I knew my adopted son wouldn't run away from home.

[Rohirrim]

Meanwhile, my adopted Bronco might head for greener pastures. If they offer him the OC job, he has no choice. How could he pass on that?

[azbroncfan]

I knew my adopted son wouldn't run away from home.

Who's that Jim Beam?

[footstepsfrom#27]

On the one hand, I'd hate to lose a guy like Turner, but on the other, it might signal a departure from the philosophy that we dig bargain bin runners out of the back end of the draft and plug them into the stretch zone blocking system. I wonder if Shanny is contemplating a switch to larger linemen with an eye towards protecting Cutler taking priority over finding linemen who can cut block and move downfield. If so, it will certainly show itself in the next draft, because we have no linemen that can play a straight up power game at this point.

I wish Predator would stay.

[ludo21]

Why is Shany so in love with Sapp?

Maybe if he can stay healthy one year we shall see...

[Atlas]

Why is Shany so in love with Sapp?

Maybe if he can stay healthy one year we shall see...

Sapp is faster and and a better runner than Johnson. You can see he has good running and pass recieving skills. I don't know what kind of blocker he is but if he can block as good as Johnson he will be a much better and more dangerous FB.

[watermock]

Why is Shany so in love with Sapp?

Maybe if he can stay healthy one year we shall see...

He loved him so much we didn't even spend a 7th on him?

He's been healthy thruout his college career and the pros till last year. Actually, he almost won a game for us...we just scored too fast...every time he has gotten the rock, he's produced actually. Finally, he had accepted his role and is becoming a good reciever and blocker as well as runner.

I wouldn't trade Mike Bell for him whatsoever. (another undrafted local product).

[Drek]

On the one hand, I'd hate to lose a guy like Turner, but on the other, it might signal a departure from the philosophy that we dig bargain bin runners out of the back end of the draft and plug them into the stretch zone blocking system. I wonder if Shanny is contemplating a switch to larger linemen with an eye towards protecting Cutler taking priority over finding linemen who can cut block and move downfield. If so, it will certainly show itself in the next draft, because we have no linemen that can play a straight up power game at this point.

I wish Predator would stay.

Pears is 305 and should be our starting RT next year. Kuper is 302, Myers is 300 even, one of those two will probably be our starting RG.

I'd say we're already seeing an increase in linemen size. We won't suddenly have a line averaging 315+ but we're going to see each new starter added as weighing in at or above 300 pounds.

[fontaine]

Meanwhile, my adopted Bronco might head for greener pastures. If they offer him the OC job, he has no choice. How could he pass on that?

I think Turner did pass on the New Orleans OC gig a couple of years because they basically wanted him to coach RB with an OC title while Haslett ran the offense.

Turner declined.

I think nothing short of being a true OC (whatever that is) will tempt Turner away from Denver because he already has a lot of autonomy when it comes to RBs on gameday.

http://cache.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Images/Top%20Stories/2005/turner_bobby_053005.jpg

Bobby Turner: "I'm from the old school; I don't want to be a guy's buddy. I just want to teach. I want guys working hard and being humble and that's what's going to separate them. If a guy is humble and he's willing to work, the bottom line is that we are forming a relationship and that relationship is one of trust and that's the whole key. That relationship and bonding leads to a respect and trust so that he's going to trust what I'm telling him and I'm going to trust him to get the job done. That's what helps make the leaps and bounds in growth happen."

[fontaine]

http://cache.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Images/Top%20Stories/2005/turner_bobby_053005.jpg

"We teach players to run with their eyes. We teach players that one of their greatest assets is their eyes, their vision and they have to see the big picture. They have to see not only the hole but where their blocks are coming from and who's making the blocks. With running backs, a lot of people think that they just get the ball and run. They have to be knowledgeable. We teach them to run tracks, (most people say paths or courses, I use the word tracks). They have aiming points, keys and reads and it's an accumulation of all of that. They glance out there and once they own the offense and once they own the defensive structure, their minds become just like a camera, they can take a picture and then they let their running skills take over."

[Rohirrim]

I think Turner did pass on the New Orleans OC gig a couple of years because they basically wanted him to coach RB with an OC title while Haslett ran the offense.

Turner declined.

I think nothing short of being a true OC (whatever that is) will tempt Turner away from Denver because he already has a lot of autonomy when it comes to RBs on gameday.

http://cache.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Images/Top%20Stories/2005/turner_bobby_053005.jpg

I think Shanahan creates an excellent atmosphere for coaches and players to work in. People only seem to leave when they're offered a definite step up in their careers. Nobody seems to leave the Broncos for simply a lateral move.

[Rohirrim]

http://cache.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Images/Top%20Stories/2005/turner_bobby_053005.jpg

"We teach players to run with their eyes. We teach players that one of their greatest assets is their eyes, their vision and they have to see the big picture. They have to see not only the hole but where their blocks are coming from and who's making the blocks. With running backs, a lot of people think that they just get the ball and run. They have to be knowledgeable. We teach them to run tracks, (most people say paths or courses, I use the word tracks). They have aiming points, keys and reads and it's an accumulation of all of that. They glance out there and once they own the offense and once they own the defensive structure, their minds become just like a camera, they can take a picture and then they let their running skills take over."

Man, that dude is sharp! No wonder Shanahan doesn't want him to leave. When I think of the opportunity MoC was given and then just crapped all over, I just shake my head. You've got to come into it with humility. Then, you can learn.

[Phantom]

Broncos assistant coaches become Chiefs primary coaches, therefore;

Broncos > Chiefs


:strong: :punched:

[footstepsfrom#27]

Pears is 305 and should be our starting RT next year. Kuper is 302, Myers is 300 even, one of those two will probably be our starting RG.

I'd say we're already seeing an increase in linemen size. We won't suddenly have a line averaging 315+ but we're going to see each new starter added as weighing in at or above 300 pounds.
We're still at the bottom of the NFL size-wise. 305 isn't even close to the average size OT now, and Lepsis (if he returns) and Hamilton are by far the smallest left side of any offensive line in the league. Nothing short of an infusion of power players will lead to a direct change in our running game's philosophy. It's not so much the running game I'm concerned about, though our red zone ground game is severely lacking...it's more the deficit we have in pass protection. These guys just can't stop the big interior linemen from getting major push in the pocket, and I don't want Jay having to turn into Jake II to survive in this offense.

[orinjkrush]

why doesn't shanny offer B Turner "assistant head coach, running backs"? everybody else is an assistant head coach.

[fontaine]

We're still at the bottom of the NFL size-wise. 305 isn't even close to the average size OT now, and Lepsis (if he returns) and Hamilton are by far the smallest left side of any offensive line in the league. Nothing short of an infusion of power players will lead to a direct change in our running game's philosophy. It's not so much the running game I'm concerned about, though our red zone ground game is severely lacking...it's more the deficit we have in pass protection. These guys just can't stop the big interior linemen from getting major push in the pocket, and I don't want Jay having to turn into Jake II to survive in this offense.

No disrespect but that doesn't make sense to me.

When Tatum was healthy he was the LEADING rusher in the league. He had more yards than LJ mid October I think. It was only when he got injured again that we had to put in Mike Bell who gained a lot of yards and 8 TDs as an undrafted rookie FA. We have no real blocking TE and our FBs were hurt all year long, while Plummer did his impression of a pile of dog sh*t, but go ahead and put it on the OL.

As far as pass protection is concerned, I find it pretty ironic that the guy that caused the biggest problems for Jay Cutler was also the biggest Tackle we've brought in here for years and also the highest drafted. Is this your idea of "power players?" Jay is mobile enough and once he gets familiar with the O he'll be fine behind our OL as long as Pears get slotted in at RT.

Gimme guys like Nalen/Lepsis over any other C/T combo in the league.

[footstepsfrom#27]

No disrespect but that doesn't make sense to me.

When Tatum was healthy he was the LEADING rusher in the league. He had more yards than LJ mid October I think. It was only when he got injured again that we had to put in Mike Bell who gained a lot of yards and 8 TDs as an undrafted rookie FA. We have no real blocking TE and our FBs were hurt all year long, while Plummer did his impression of a pile of dog sh*t, but go ahead and put it on the OL.
It isn't just yards I'm interested in...we've all seen Tatum's act for two years...18 carries a game...14 of them go almost nowhere and you mix in a couple of 10 yarders and he peels off two for 30 each and at the end of the game he's got 95 yards on 18 carries...which looks great in the stat column but doesn't move the chains up and down the field like we need to. The telling statistics are in time of possession and yard gained on the ground in the red zone. Watching the way we run the ball it's obvious this ground attack is not the feared monster it used to be. That's not all on the line either...there's no TD or Portis out there...but I didn't see nearly the holes the last two years I have before and I did see our guys getting abused by bigger defensive linemen on a regular basis. At some point we have to ask why we've waited till Tom Nalen is 36 years old without having his replacement before now, why we have 280 pound Ben Hamilton starting when he can't get any push on a 3rd and 1 running play even though he's great at pulling out and clipping the LB 8 yards downfield, why in God's green earth that fat piece of lard at ROT is even drawing a paycheck...how good UFA Eric Pears really is...etc.
As far as pass protection is concerned, I find it pretty ironic that the guy that caused the biggest problems for Jay Cutler was also the biggest Tackle we've brought in here for years and also the highest drafted. Is this your idea of "power players?" Jay is mobile enough and once he gets familiar with the O he'll be fine behind our OL as long as Pears get slotted in at RT.
It's absurd reasoning to suggest that Foster's lack of game has something to do with his size, which seems to be what your suggesting. So I guess Jonathan Ogden shouldn't be any good then right? Foster's problem isn't the size of his body...it's the size of his heart, which is basically non existant. He's just drawing a paycheck and that's it. So the answer is a resounding NO...he's not my idea of a power player, but neither is Hamilton or Lepsis or any of the rest of them. Jay may be "mobile enough"...so was Jake...but why should we expect our franchise QB to have to go through running for his life? That thinking reminds me of the way Reeves used to go about it...toss Elway in there behind a porous finesse type offensive line and ask him to make something happen. Who knows how many Superbowls the Duke might have won if he'd been given the tools. I don't want Jay Cutler setting up behind a line that's "good enough". I want him setting up behind one that's the best in the NFL, and there is no excuse for us not making that the goal.
Gimme guys like Nalen/Lepsis over any other C/T combo in the league.
Nalen's declining noticably and he's almost done and Lepsis is 33 right now. If it takes a rookie a year to learn the ropes and get some expeerience, and we draft Lepsis' replacement in this draft...AND ASSUMING that Matt is able to play this year (not a given)...then that means Lepsis will be pushing 35 when that rookie is ready to step in for him. So how much longer do you want to wait? Should we wait till he's 38? I like these guys too and they've been the heart and soul of this team for a long time but it's time to move ahead with a younger core of guys, and I don't mean guys who are other teams castoffs and UFA's from the scrap pile. Sure some of those guys make it, but far more often they don't. It's an axiom at every level, especially in the NFL...that you win in the trenches, and I'm tired of watching us get physically whipped by bigger more powerful defensive lines.

[fontaine]

It isn't just yards I'm interested in...we've all seen Tatum's act for two years...18 carries a game...14 of them go almost nowhere and you mix in a couple of 10 yarders and he peels off two for 30 each and at the end of the game he's got 95 yards on 18 carries...which looks great in the stat column but doesn't move the chains up and down the field like we need to. The telling statistics are in time of possession and yard gained on the ground in the red zone. Watching the way we run the ball it's obvious this ground attack is not the feared monster it used to be. That's not all on the line either...there's no TD or Portis out there...but I didn't see nearly the holes the last two years I have before and I did see our guys getting abused by bigger defensive linemen on a regular basis. At some point we have to ask why we've waited till Tom Nalen is 36 years old without having his replacement before now, why we have 280 pound Ben Hamilton starting when he can't get any push on a 3rd and 1 running play even though he's great at pulling out and clipping the LB 8 yards downfield, why in God's green earth that fat piece of lard at ROT is even drawing a paycheck...how good UFA Eric Pears really is...etc.


Nalen had a phenomenal season this year and did play very well against bigger DTs. That's not just me saying it but Shanahan said Nalen should have gone to the pro-bowl and even that notorious Bronco Hater Dr. Zim gave Nalen major props.

Hamilton is what he is, a technically sound G. Being a power players is not his game just like a 330lb G isn't as fluid, as athletic or mobile getting to the 2nd level, pulling and trapping like Hamilton.

Pears? He's a natural RT and played ver well against some good DEs. I only saw him struggle against Jared Allen really.


It's absurd reasoning to suggest that Foster's lack of game has something to do with his size, which seems to be what your suggesting. So I guess Jonathan Ogden shouldn't be any good then right? Foster's problem isn't the size of his body...it's the size of his heart, which is basically non existant. He's just drawing a paycheck and that's it. So the answer is a resounding NO...he's not my idea of a power player, but neither is Hamilton or Lepsis or any of the rest of them. Jay may be "mobile enough"...so was Jake...but why should we expect our franchise QB to have to go through running for his life? That thinking reminds me of the way Reeves used to go about it...toss Elway in there behind a porous finesse type offensive line and ask him to make something happen. Who knows how many Superbowls the Duke might have won if he'd been given the tools. I don't want Jay Cutler setting up behind a line that's "good enough". I want him setting up behind one that's the best in the NFL, and there is no excuse for us not making that the goal.

That's my point exactly. In your earlier post you said that we're still one of the lightest OL in terms of size, mentioning Lepsis. And now you're taking about heart? So smaller OL can't have heart?

C'mon get real. Lepsis was an all pro at RT and he's an all pro at LT even though he's undersized and we routinely run right behind him. He's also one of the strongest guys on the team year in year out. I think you're just fixated with the idea of size and overlook the great work we get out of the OL.

Nalen's declining noticably and he's almost done and Lepsis is 33 right now. If it takes a rookie a year to learn the ropes and get some expeerience, and we draft Lepsis' replacement in this draft...AND ASSUMING that Matt is able to play this year (not a given)...then that means Lepsis will be pushing 35 when that rookie is ready to step in for him. So how much longer do you want to wait? Should we wait till he's 38? I like these guys too and they've been the heart and soul of this team for a long time but it's time to move ahead with a younger core of guys, and I don't mean guys who are other teams castoffs and UFA's from the scrap pile. Sure some of those guys make it, but far more often they don't. It's an axiom at every level, especially in the NFL...that you win in the trenches, and I'm tired of watching us get physically whipped by bigger more powerful defensive lines.

Hey I'm all for drafting OL, but don't justify it by making stuff up man.

Mike Shanahan:
"He played at a Pro Bowl level (in 2006)," Shanahan said of Nalen, 36 in May. "To not be nominated at least as an alternate was a farce."

Here's old Bronco Hater himself:
Paul Zimmerman from cnnsi:
CENTER (Tom Nalen)
Please don't grade high, I kept pleading, as I recorded the week to week performance of Denver's Tom Nalen. I really didn't want to pick him. Hates writers. Makes sure the Denver offensive linemen don't talk to any. Hey, Jack, talk to yourself, I don't care, and I'll be damned if I'll pick you to...oh oh, an absolutely spectacular game when the Broncos lost to Indy, and two real good ones in the losses to the Rams and Chargers the first time. I mean, does the guy play well only in losses? Uh, no, here's a good one when they beat the Bengals and another fine performance against some really tough studs on that Baltimore D-line when the Broncos won. Can't avoid it. Nalen's the pick again...for so many years now that it makes me sick.

It sickens me to even quote this whiny b*tch.

Not to mention what Olin Kreutz has said about Nalen recently.

[fontaine]

I see you've been spreading these filthy lies about Nalen in other threads as well footuphisa$$#27.


All of them. We have question marks at every position. Lepsis is aging and hurt, so we don't know if he returns how effective he'll be. Hamilton gets blown up on pass protection, Nails is almost done now, and not the player he used to be,

I'll admit I'm biased because Nails is one of my favorite players but where the f**k do you get off spouting crap about him declining and being done when he's come off a pro-bowl type season?

I routinely make it a point to watch the OL, especially guys like Nalen/Lepsis and the regular ass-kickings they hand out to LBs when they get to the 2nd level so where exactly has Nalen "declined?"

Can you provide specific games/drives?

It's bad enough that guys like Nalen get snubbed for the pro-bowl when they are deserving but it sickens me when fans of this team do it as well.

Don't bother responding.

[Drek]

Nails and Hamilton both played excellent last year despite having what basically amounted to a rookie at LT (who did very well in his own right), Carlsile having a very bad pass blocking year, and Foster packing it in completely. I'm honestly amazed at how well two 280 something OLs can anchor the interior of a line when everything to the right of them has gone to ****, but they did it game in and game out.

[fontaine]

Nails and Hamilton both played excellent last year despite having what basically amounted to a rookie at LT (who did very well in his own right), Carlsile having a very bad pass blocking year, and Foster packing it in completely. I'm honestly amazed at how well two 280 something OLs can anchor the interior of a line when everything to the right of them has gone to ****, but they did it game in and game out.

Lepsis at LT and Pears at RT should solve a lot of issues and I'm hoping this Kuper kid is as good as advertised!

IMHO, we're lacking in the "extras" that we had in the past with our running game. We don't have a dominant run blocking TE like we did in House or even one that would block and drag away defenders from the box like Sharpe.

We're without a true powerback (both at FB/RB) or third down guy. And last year our QB play was awful.

All those extras really, really help the running game and pass protection and we haven't had it. This is why I want the team to sign Graham. Bigger WRs in Marshall/Walker are also a step in the right direction. Now all we need is either Mike Bell to take the next step or find someone else that can be a physical runner in our system because Tatum is best suited to a change of pace guy.

[chaz]

We're without a true powerback (both at FB/RB) or third down guy. .

I think that cecil sapp has the potential to be a short yardage back...he had many strong runs this past season before getting hurt. with that said it never hurts to look for another....but i'd like to see what he could do in that role in camp and preseason.

[WABronco]

Wow I'm surprised no one's whining about letting the all-important "predator" go.

[BroncoBuff]

Backup defensive end Patrick Chukwurah is not expected to return. Restricted free-agent fullback Cecil Sapp is expected to get a tender offer.
Two good decisions ... Chukwurah is a poor man's Dumervil and disappears late in the season ... and Cecil the Diesel is the MAN!

[2KBack]

Two good decisions ... Chukwurah is a poor man's Dumervil and disappears late in the season ... and Cecil the Diesel is the MAN!

as much as I enjoyed rooting for Predator, Lang and Dumervil have made him more than expendable. Hell Dumervil looks like a pass rush force, and he was a rookie.

Sapp looks ready to break out, a lot of Lorenzo Neal in that guy.

[rovolution]

Not to mention what Olin Kreutz has said about Nalen recently.

Kreutz: Nalen fan

Bears Pro Bowl center Olin Kreutz said he has long studied Tom Nalen and believes the Broncos' standout center should get serious Hall of Fame consideration when his career is over.

"I know most centers don't get a lot of attention for the Hall of Fame, but Tom Nalen should," Kreutz said. "He's one of my favorite players. He does everything right."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncosheadlines/ci_5139015

[anthonypacino]

The asst head coach title is being thrown around Denver as a type of job security thing, other teams cannot offer them jobs while under contract unless it's a promotion from their current one so if one held the asst head coach title they could only leave unless they were offfered a HC job. This teams run game has steadily slipped since the departure of Alex Gibbs. If we lose Bobby Turner we are in it deep with dum-dum Dennison and whoever Shanny promotes up.