Samuel in Denver?

[Rascal]

Sorry I meant to put a question mark next to the title, so don't go overboard. Just speculation.

Rumor in USA Today that the Broncos may go after New England Patriots CB Asante Samuel.

New England can franchise Samuel but he already said he doesn't want to go that route. Ironically, it's already being reported that the Broncos will make a strong play for Samuel, teaming him with Bailey after the tragic death of Darrent Williams. Either way, the Patriots will have to open up the wallet if they want to keep their best defensive back in New England.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/patriots/home.htm

[Cosmo]

As appealing as that is, that just makes me worry that its a) Very untrue, b) sucks because we'll be putting money in the wrong place, c) I thought Foxworth & Paymah were pretty good, I guess not.

[DBroncos4life]

Im game.

[TheDave]

Just seems like a freakish amount of money alocated to one position

[Bronx33]

Sorry I meant to put a question mark next to the title, so don't go overboard. Just speculation.

Rumor in USA Today that the Broncos may go after New England Patriots CB Asante Samuel.

New England can franchise Samuel but he already said he doesn't want to go that route. Ironically, it's already being reported that the Broncos will make a strong play for Samuel, teaming him with Bailey after the tragic death of Darrent Williams. Either way, the Patriots will have to open up the wallet if they want to keep their best defensive back in New England.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/patriots/home.htm



We will have to open our wallet as well, i love the idea of having that duo in the backfield but we have more pressing issues/positions IMO.

[wolf754life]

should be great having those two, with a bunch of division 1AA defensive lineman

[Rulon Velvet Jones]

Posturing to make New England pony up.

[Clockwork Orange]

Just seems like a freakish amount of money alocated to one position

A freakish amount for a guy to be a #2 corner, that's for sure.

[watermock]

He would have to come here fore some specific reason with the team only 4/7 under the cap with other needs.

Don't waste our time with player that will want Champ plus money and can get it.

[Rascal]

Could this be postering to get NE to place the tag on Samuel so we can get Graham?

[Clockwork Orange]

Could this be postering to get NE to place the tag on Samuel so we can get Graham?

New England is something like $30 million under they cap. They can easily re-sign both of them if they choose to regardless of anyones posturing.

[DBroncos4life]

A freakish amount for a guy to be a #2 corner, that's for sure.

Most teams have more then one good WR. Good coverage does go along with a pass rush.

[bpc]

You know what would pose for an interesting spring? If we found a way to sign Asante Samuel and then we land Reggie Nelson or Michael Griffin with our first round selection.

I doubt it would happen but man, would be loaded on the back end.

Don't read into my statements too much. I doubt Samuel will come to Denver and I think unless we can pull off a miracle with the defensive line, it is just too big of a question mark for us.

Always fun to speculate though. I would love to see a team have to go towards Champ once in awhile. Nelson and Asante would really up the pressure on teams trying to throw the ball. One mistake and its a pick-six going the other direction.

[bpc]

Most teams have more then one good WR. Good coverage does go along with a pass rush.

If we could splurge and go the Washington Redskins route for one second, securing Justin Smith and Asante Samuel in the same offseason would be the closest I could ever die and go to heaven.

Man, that would be a total reincarnation of what our team is like.

I'll tell you the thing that is probably most attractive to Mike Shanahan about Asante Samuel... the guy fights his a$$ off and just shows a nasty disposition on the field. I really respect that about him.

[Clockwork Orange]

Most teams have more then one good WR. Good coverage does go along with a pass rush.

Sounds really cool in theory. Only problem is that it doesnt matter how good your coverage is if a QB can sit in a lawn chair in the pocket.

[SouthStndJunkie]

If he is not tagged there will be a dozen teams lining up to throw more money at him than Denver will be willing to spend.

[DBroncos4life]

Sounds really cool in theory. Only problem is that it doesnt matter how good your coverage is if a QB can sit in a lawn chair in the pocket.

our pass rush wasn't that bad it just lacked a inside guy to push the pocket. Either way it doesn't help the Dline when one guy is doing his part and the other guy is lined up 10 yards off the WR...... he was open before the snap.

[Clockwork Orange]

our pass rush wasn't that bad

Did you actually type that with a straight face?

Seriously, the Broncos pass rush is mediocre at best.

[DBroncos4life]

Did you actually type that with a straight face?

Seriously, the Broncos pass rush is mediocre at best.

Our DEs did their part even though no one finished with more then 3 sacks in the middle. I seen many plays where all the tackles had to do is force our DEs deep in the pocket because the QB was safe from no inside rush. Pretty much from what I remember the DEs had to get the sacks on there own. We had guys from the edge with 8.5, 4.5, 6 and 7 sacks. JE had 1. We got 6 sacks from 3 DTs. Warren Sapp had 9 himself. Thats sad.

[TexanBob]

Between Champ, Lynch and Samuel, that could be the most expensive secondary in NFL history. It would be nice but, in the salary cap era, it seems counterproductive.

[Clockwork Orange]

Our DEs did their part even though no one finished with more then 3 sacks in the middle. I seen many plays where all the tackles had to do is force our DEs deep in the pocket because the QB was safe from no inside rush. Pretty much from what I remember the DEs had to get the sacks on there own. We had guys from the edge with 8.5, 4.5, 6 and 7 sacks. JE had 1. We got 6 sacks from 3 DTs. Warren Sapp had 9 himself. Thats sad.

Then maybe, just maybe, they should pool their resources into an upgrade at DT instead of throwing crazy dollars at another corner.

[Bronx33]

A decent pass could have made a huge difference this year, i watched quit a few QBs having all day to make passes.

[DBroncos4life]

Then maybe, just maybe, they should pool their resources into an upgrade at DT instead of throwing crazy dollars at another corner.

find one worth throwing money at.

[Bronx33]

find one worth throwing money at.



Hopefully the new DC and his schemes can help us out, i didn't see anything fancy from coyer this year like we did the year before.

[rovolution]

Our DEs did their part even though no one finished with more then 3 sacks in the middle. I seen many plays where all the tackles had to do is force our DEs deep in the pocket because the QB was safe from no inside rush. Pretty much from what I remember the DEs had to get the sacks on there own. We had guys from the edge with 8.5, 4.5, 6 and 7 sacks. JE had 1. We got 6 sacks from 3 DTs. Warren Sapp had 9 himself. Thats sad.

True. I truly saw this for the first time in the AZ game, where Dumervil was straight killing their RT and all Leinart had to do was step up in the pocket to avoid the rush. Dumervil would have had like 8 sacks in that game (im not exagerrating, go and look at the tape) if we had any kind of interior rush.

[Clockwork Orange]

find one worth throwing money at.

So because there isn't one worth throwing money at, they should turn around and overpay Asante Samuel instead?

Sorry, there's just no way you can convince me that outbidding several teams that have more cap space than the Broncos to pay Samuel roughly the same money they're paying Champ Bailey is a good idea. Not when there are so many other areas of need/concern on this team.

[DBroncos4life]

So because there isn't one worth throwing money at, they should turn around and overpay Asante Samuel instead?

Sorry, there's just no way you can convince me that outbidding several teams that have more cap space than the Broncos to pay Samuel roughly the same money they're paying Champ Bailey is a good idea. Not when there are so many other areas of need/concern on this team.

So its ok to overpay for a DT that isn't worth it but its not ok to overpay for Samuel who odds are makes the team better? I doubt we even come close to landing Samuel but its hard to believe that signing him wouldn't make the team better.

[eddie mac]

Between Champ, Lynch and Samuel, that could be the most expensive secondary in NFL history. It would be nice but, in the salary cap era, it seems counterproductive.

Lynch certainly isn't the most expensive safety around with a base salary of just $1.5m.

[bpc]

It is true. Our DE's are not bad pass rushers... they just are all light in the a$$ and got knocked off the ball against the run.

That being said to fix our pass rush sack numbers, we will need some big beasts in the middle of the dline to get stationary QB's to move sideways into oncoming traffic from guys like Ekuban and Elvis.

Even if we just commit to improving the defensive tackles next year, our dline play should be greatly improved.

[Clockwork Orange]

So its ok to overpay for a DT that isn't worth it but its not ok to overpay for Samuel who odds are makes the team better? I doubt we even come close to landing Samuel but its hard to believe that signing him wouldn't make the team better.

I never said anything about overpaying a DT, I said put their resources towards an area of need rather than grossly overpay for second corner.

[bpc]

If I was to commit money to one area right now, I think the safest bet would be either Justin Smith or Asante Samuel. That is if we are just looking to chuck money around.

I wouldn't waste money at DT in FA unless we get some fat vet who won't cost us a bunch of scratch like Keith Traylor. Better to just go into the draft and use our approach at one position like we did two years ago with the CB position. If we could find a way to come down with Harrell and Mebane at DT, I would feel very good about our team going into next season at DT.

[DBroncos4life]

I never said anything about overpaying a DT, I said put their resources towards an area of need rather than grossly overpay for second corner.

Why does he have to be called a second corner? I see no reason why not to have a player that is better then the guy he is going against every game. What some people over look is if a DB can cover a guy for just a second longer then the pass rush looks better. I see no reason why Samuel couldn't allow the pass rush more time by locking down the 2nd WR.

[SoCalBronco]

No Thanks. We're already overinvested in linebacker, we don't need to be extremely overinvested at corner. Gotta spread the resources around.

[-Slap-]

Has anyone noticed to what level Asante Samuel has elevated his game?

He picked a good time to peak because Champ Bailey is the only cornerback in football who's clearly better right now.

I would love to bookend these guys, but he's going to want a contract equal to what Champ is getting.

[ludo21]

man, we need DL not corners.

Maybe if he comes cheap, which he wont...

[Bronco LB 59]

Has anyone noticed to what level Asante Samuel has elevated his game?

He picked a good time to peak because Champ Bailey is the only cornerback in football who's clearly better right now.

I would love to bookend these guys, but he's going to want a contract equal to what Champ is getting.

If you were to pair both Champ and Samuel, where would they rank among the greatest corner tandems of all-time?

[Taco John]

DO IT!

[Clockwork Orange]

Why does he have to be called a second corner? I see no reason why not to have a player that is better then the guy he is going against every game. What some people over look is if a DB can cover a guy for just a second longer then the pass rush looks better. I see no reason why Samuel couldn't allow the pass rush more time by locking down the 2nd WR.

That little thing called the salary cap has something to do with it. When you allocate that much of your available resources to one position, other areas are going to suffer.

You're obviously thinking short term here, I'm not. In the long run, handing that much money to another corner is going to severely limit what the Broncos are able to do. Remember, the D-line isn't the only area of concern on this team. Both of the Broncos starting safeties are on the wrong side of 30 and one of them is coming off of a season ending injury. It wouldn't hurt to upgrade at LB either, as has been discussed ad naseum on this board before. That's not even mentioning the offense, which has it's own problem areas as well.

This team isn't one player away from being a Super Bowl contender and they're definitely not one Asante Samuel away from getting there.

[DBroncos4life]

That little thing called the salary cap has something to do with it. When you allocate that much of your available resources to one position, other areas are going to suffer.

You're obviously thinking short term here, I'm not. In the long run, handing that much money to another corner is going to severely limit what the Broncos are able to do. Remember, the D-line isn't the only area of concern on this team. Both of the Broncos starting safeties are on the wrong side of 30 and one of them is coming off of a season ending injury. It wouldn't hurt to upgrade at LB either, as has been discussed ad naseum on this board before. That's not even mentioning the offense, which has it's own problem areas as well.

This team isn't one player away from being a Super Bowl contender and they're definitely not one Asante Samuel away from getting there.

The cap goes up every damn year and to be honest from what Ive seen I believe in dragons more then I do teams going through cap hell.

[Taco John]

This team isn't one player away from being a Super Bowl contender and they're definitely not one Asante Samuel away from getting there.


Tell that to Bob Sanders and the Colts. That defense looked horrible, but add in one player, Bob Sanders, and they become Superbowl Champions.

Personally, I don't think we're any players away from being a Superbowl contender. I think we have a solid team who just needs to catch a break or two. I'd love to see us get better up front, but the way things look, that isn't going to happen via free agency.

[Clockwork Orange]

The cap goes up every damn year and to be honest from what Ive seen I believe in dragons more then I do teams going through cap hell.

Who said anything about "cap hell?" I was talking about them being limited in what they're able to do elsewhere because of the amount of money they'd have tied up in their starting corners.

All this said, Shanahan has a well known fetish for corners, so I'm not ruling out the possibility of it happening. I just don't agree with it.

[SureShot]

Posturing to make New England pony up.

I agree. We are the one team the Pats would not want Samuel to go to.

[DBroncos4life]

Who said anything about "cap hell?" I was talking about them being limited in what they're able to do elsewhere because of the amount of money they'd have tied up in their starting corners.

All this said, Shanahan has a well known fetish for corners, so I'm not ruling out the possibility of it happening. I just don't agree with it.

Indy has a ton of money in Harrison and Wayne. It works for some teams while others (Skins) have troubles working the cap. What sets the good teams apart is the coaching staffs.

[Rascal]

I want Samuel, but I also want a DT. I expect to get neither.

[ludo21]

Tell that to Bob Sanders and the Colts. That defense looked horrible, but add in one player, Bob Sanders, and they become Superbowl Champions.

Personally, I don't think we're any players away from being a Superbowl contender. I think we have a solid team who just needs to catch a break or two. I'd love to see us get better up front, but the way things look, that isn't going to happen via free agency.



and the fact that they actually flew around and tackled well is a fact they went to the SB as well. Not just Sanders.

[Clockwork Orange]

Tell that to Bob Sanders and the Colts. That defense looked horrible, but add in one player, Bob Sanders, and they become Superbowl Champions.

True, but the Broncos adding Samuel would be like the Colts adding Ed Reed to go along with Sanders at safety. It's overkill and the Broncos aren't in a position to make luxury signings at this time. Especially not at the price that Samuel is going to command.

[Bronx33]

Can we agree that helping the pass rush will take alot of pressure of the DBs? iam hoping the new DC can help us out in that dept.

[Taco John]

True, but the Broncos adding Samuel would be like the Colts adding Ed Reed to go along with Sanders at safety. It's overkill and the Broncos aren't in a position to make luxury signings at this time. Especially not at the price that Samuel is going to command.


Respectfully disagree, my friend. Adding Samuels to the mix, to me, means giving Jay Cutler the ball at least an extra possession each game that he normally wouldn't have (in addition to what we already enjoy with Champ).

I think it would be phenomenal. I'd love to have a secondary that just absolutely terrorizes a quarterback, and forces them to stick with the underneath stuff.

[Clockwork Orange]

Respectfully disagree, my friend. Adding Samuels to the mix, to me, means giving Jay Cutler the ball at least an extra possession each game that he normally wouldn't have. Maybe two.

I think it would be phenomenal. I'd love to have a secondary that just absolutely terrorizes a quarterback, and forces them to stick with the underneath stuff.

You're right, this is just an area that we'll have to agree to disagree on because I'm not feeling it.

Don't get me wrong, Samuel is a tremendous player and if the Broncos actually needed a #1 corner, I'd be all for it. I just see it as not needing to go out and buy a Mercedes when we've already got a Ferrari in the garage and the rest of the house is in need of some repairs.

[Taco John]

Just to play a little off my last thought...

We finally have a quarterback who can run Shanahan's offense. Shanahan is going to do everything he can to get his system tuned up to where we're playing with a lead to start the game. So let's imagine best case for a minute, and he succeeds in getting our first half scoring up the way it used to be.

Now we have teams playing from behind and forced to abandon their running game. We have a DC now who is a creative blitzer. And with Samuels, we'd have the best cornerback tandem in the game.

Doesn't that sound Super?

[Bronx33]

Just to play a little off my last thought...

We finally have a quarterback who can run Shanahan's offense. Shanahan is going to do everything he can to get his system tuned up to where we're playing with a lead to start the game. So let's imagine best case for a minute, and he succeeds in getting our first half scoring up the way it used to be.

Now we have teams playing from behind and forced to abandon their running game. We have a DC now who is a creative blitzer. And with Samuels, we'd have the best cornerback tandem in the game.

Doesn't that sound Super?


I really don't think that's been proven yet but i will say he did look good from what i saw.

[Clockwork Orange]

Just to play a little off my last thought...

We finally have a quarterback who can run Shanahan's offense. Shanahan is going to do everything he can to get his system tuned up to where we're playing with a lead to start the game. So let's imagine best case for a minute, and he succeeds in getting our first half scoring up the way it used to be.

Now we have teams playing from behind and forced to abandon their running game. We have a DC now who is a creative blitzer. And with Samuels, we'd have the best cornerback tandem in the game.

Doesn't that sound Super?

In theory it sounds great. The question is whether or not the offense is where it needs to be to make that happen. I think they're still a couple of players at key spots away from making that a reality. Most notably running back and right tackle.

[TheDave]

Just to play a little off my last thought...

We finally have a quarterback who can run Shanahan's offense. Shanahan is going to do everything he can to get his system tuned up to where we're playing with a lead to start the game. So let's imagine best case for a minute, and he succeeds in getting our first half scoring up the way it used to be.

Now we have teams playing from behind and forced to abandon their running game. We have a DC now who is a creative blitzer. And with Samuels, we'd have the best cornerback tandem in the game.

Doesn't that sound Super?

Sure does... Problem is, we have a second year QB that still has alot of growing pains in front of him. Assuming that he will be able to get us a lead early and often is a bit presumptuous. I think we better be ready to win some tough ugly games this season.

[DBroncos4life]

Sure does... Problem is, we have a second year QB that still has alot of growing pains in front of him. Assuming that he will be able to get us a lead early and often is a bit presumptuous. I think we better be ready to win some tough ugly games this season.

No we have Barry Dickerson on our roster be ready to pound teams next year.

[bpc]

I would be all for throwing money at Asante if I can see a signed document by Shanahan an co. that we are going to spend a minimum of 2 draft picks in the first four rounds each season on quality defensive linemen.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Ironically, it's already being reported that the Broncos will make a strong play for Samuel, teaming him with Bailey after the tragic death of Darrent Williams.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/patriots/home.htm

No, it hasn't been. The only place there's been a rumor about interest in Samuel was a link to some blog that cited no source and I'm sure 99.9% of this board had never heard of.

Up to this point, the usual suspects of: Clayton, Mort, Schefter, and the local beat writers have said nothing about the team's interest in going after a corner this offseason.

[Clockwork Orange]

I would be all for throwing money at Asante if I can see a signed document by Shanahan an co. that we are going to spend a minimum of 2 draft picks in the first four rounds each season on quality defensive linemen.

I'd want that document notarized, signed in blood and two forms of ID with it.

[eddie mac]

Have to agree with that TJ furthermore cap issues with Samuel signing here wouldn't kick in until the 2009 or even the 2010 season. The only way he becomes a Bronco is if he takes basic salaries the first couple of seasons whilst the remainder of the deal is backloaded. Need to check the CBA but can you still sign a player to a 6 year deal??? Bailey got an $18m signing bonus but it was 2-tiered. $6m in 2004 and $12m in 2005, thus giving Champ cap hits of $2.5m and $3.3m in the first 2 years of the contract. Samuel could be fitted in here under similar terms.

[cutthemdown]

New England is something like $30 million under they cap. They can easily re-sign both of them if they choose to regardless of anyones posturing.

I bet NE ends the FA period and starts next year with at least 15 million in un spent cap money.

[crazyhorse]

With your D line that would be a colosal waste of money.

[Clockwork Orange]

I bet NE ends the FA period and starts next year with at least 15 million in un spent cap money.

That's why I said if they choose to. They easily had the money to re-sign Deion Branch & Willie McGinest last offseason. The simply chose not to.

[chaz]

i think its tempting to have arguably the best two cornerbacks in the nfl playing next to eachother, and i disagree with anyone that said its overkill (clockwork....haha), it is an upgrade at a position of need.

having said that, i have no idea how i feel about this. I think shanahan is itching for a title and is sick of getting good players when one or two great players will put us over the top.

all in all asante in denver would surprise me but im used to taht with ol' mike.

[crazyhorse]

In theory it sounds great. The question is whether or not the offense is where it needs to be to make that happen. I think they're still a couple of players at key spots away from making that a reality. Most notably running back and right tackle.

Of course they are. According to taco, Planny was holding back last season for the playoffs against the Colts.

[Bronx33]

Don't cha just love it when cheaps fans attempt playoff smack.

[eddie mac]

With your D line that would be a colosal waste of money.

Thing is though. If all of the better D-Linemen dont even reach free agency as anticipated the next best thing is to sign another shut-down corner and hope you land a prospect or 2 via the draft.

[Clockwork Orange]

it is an upgrade at a position of need.

I couldn't disagree more with the idea that corner is a position of need.

[crazyhorse]

Don't cha just love it when cheaps fans attempt playoff smack.


yes

[bpc]

I love Chief smack. A dead end coach running a dead end roster with a talented half-back left to hold down the fort.

This chiefs team is in for a big colapse next season which should coincide with Denver's first victory in Arrowhead since 98.

Have they figured out that the Chargers and Broncos are running away with talent and future division championships?

[eddie mac]

I couldn't disagree more with the idea that corner is a position of need.

Last time I checked we only had 3.;D

[crazyhorse]

I love Chief smack. A dead end coach running a dead end roster with a talented half-back left to hold down the fort.

This chiefs team is in for a big colapse next season which should coincide with Denver's first victory in Arrowhead since 98.

Have they figured out that the Chargers and Broncos are running away with talent and future division championships?

I figured out that if Denver continues on the last half of last season they'll be 4-12.

But I really dont see what all this has to do with Denver having 200 million tied up in CBs with no D line. ???

[Clockwork Orange]

Last time I checked we only had 3.;D

That doesn't mean spend $60+ million on another one. ;D

[Bronco_Beerslug]

No, it hasn't been. The only place there's been a rumor about interest in Samuel was a link to some blog that cited no source and I'm sure 99.9% of this board had never heard of.

Up to this point, the usual suspects of: Clayton, Mort, Schefter, and the local beat writers have said nothing about the team's interest in going after a corner this offseason.
LOL

No one seems to get it yet.

[Rascal]

What will have more impact, and be cheaper considering our cap position, a top 5 DT, top 5 DE, or a top 5 CB?

Unfortunately there is no top 5 DT, and the top 5 DE (Freeney) has huge question marks about him. If you can get a top 5 CB, you do it.

Mark this down...I agree with TJ. The FA class at DT looks piss poor, and DE can be addressed in the draft, and wasn't our primary problem anyway.

Sign a couple of veterans at DT (see the rosters before the Browncos arrived for the type I'm referring too), get Samuel and a legit DE in the draft.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Sorry I meant to put a question mark next to the title, so don't go overboard. Just speculation.

Rumor in USA Today that the Broncos may go after New England Patriots CB Asante Samuel.

New England can franchise Samuel but he already said he doesn't want to go that route. Ironically, it's already being reported that the Broncos will make a strong play for Samuel, teaming him with Bailey after the tragic death of Darrent Williams. Either way, the Patriots will have to open up the wallet if they want to keep their best defensive back in New England.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/patriots/home.htm

The only thing "reported" is some guy wrote something in a blog somewhere. :welcome:

[Rascal]

LOL

No one seems to get it yet.

And there was talk of us trading for Bailey?

[NFLBRONCO]

Look at it this way. If we use FA money on DE and DT we could then use a #1
on a solid CB at 21 if we decide to go that route. I'd prefer going into the draft where we don't have to focus on certain position and just grab best player who falls into 15-21 range.

[Taco John]

What will have more impact, and be cheaper considering our cap position, a top 5 DT, top 5 DE, or a top 5 CB?

Unfortunately there is no top 5 DT, and the top 5 DE (Freeney) has huge question marks about him. If you can get a top 5 CB, you do it.

Mark this down...I agree with TJ. The FA class at DT looks piss poor, and DE can be addressed in the draft, and wasn't our primary problem anyway.

Sign a couple of veterans at DT (see the rosters before the Browncos arrived for the type I'm referring too), get Samuel and a legit DE in the draft.



Nice work Rascal. That pretty much boils it down. What free agent currently available is going to have a bigger impact on our team than Asante Samuels? There isn't one that I know of.

[Rascal]

Look at it this way. If we use FA money on DE and DT we could then use a #1
on a solid CB at 21 if we decide to go that route. I'd prefer going into the draft where we don't have to focus on certain position and just grab best player who falls into 15-21 range.

Thing is there are hardly any decent FA DT and DE's available to get.

Justin Smith will probably be tagged, leaving the DE's available scarce.

And there is hardly anybody available at DT.

[NFLBRONCO]

Thing is there are hardly any decent FA DT and DE's available to get.

Justin Smith will probably be tagged, leaving the DE's available scarce.

And there is hardly anybody available at DT.

True but, how bout Albert Hansworth and S. Rice via trades?

[bpc]

I figured out that if Denver continues on the last half of last season they'll be 4-12.

But I really dont see what all this has to do with Denver having 200 million tied up in CBs with no D line. ???


I can see why you would think that is silly since KC hasn't had any WR's for our guys to cover in about 20 years. Pretty bad when JJ Birden and Andre Rison in his 10th season is the best your franchise has had to offer. Maybe you can convert another half-back from college and come up with a better product.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

And there was talk of us trading for Bailey?

Since this guy/girl who wrote the blog won't even sign it, where exactly is this "already being reported" at?

[Rascal]

True but, how bout Albert Hansworth and S. Rice via trades?

S Rice has 1-2 years tops and his cap hit is going to be about the same as Samuel. I'd rather get a guy that still has several more years in his prime, and not somebody on the down side of his career.

Haynesworth is interesting, but the Titans would have to be willing to move him first.

[Rascal]

Since this guy/girl who wrote the blog won't even sign it, where exactly is this "already being reported" at?

You honestly think a national newspaper would print something using such a source?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

You honestly think a national newspaper would print something using such a source?Didn't they just do that?

[Rascal]

Didn't they just do that?

You don't know who their source is, you're assuming it's the blog Herc referred to.

[-Slap-]

If you were to pair both Champ and Samuel, where would they rank among the greatest corner tandems of all-time?

I would say the best tandem I ever saw was probably the 1983 Raiders when Al Davis acquired Mike Haynes (and another Lombardi) from New England and paired him up with a not-yet disgustingly fat Lester Hayes. They straight up ruined people that year.

The Redskins came into Super Bowl XVIII averaging 33.8 points per game and they hung 51 on the Rams and 24 on the 49ers in the playoffs. The Raiders held them to 9 points and the Redskins only completed five passes to their wide receivers in the entire game.

Off the top of my head, I really don't know who I would put second. Had the Patriots hung onto Haynes, he would have formed a great tandem with Raymond Clayborn, who started to really come into his own after Haynes was traded.

[Bronx33]

To be fair 1983 the fade were still aloud to mug and molest receivers back then, i wonder how a haynes and hayes would fair in todays NFL.

[NFLBRONCO]

S Rice has 1-2 years tops and his cap hit is going to be about the same as Samuel. I'd rather get a guy that still has several more years in his prime, and not somebody on the down side of his career.

Haynesworth is interesting, but the Titans would have to be willing to move him first.

Good points Rascal I was just thinking maybe Denver might trade for a player instead like they did with Warren.

[chaz]

That doesn't mean spend $60+ million on another one. ;D

but it does mean we need a CB which is all i said, it is a position of need.

[ludo21]

i still say the DL is the most important and the real "need" of this team.

I also agree that FA for this position is weak, but Samuel at that cap hit is not worth it.

[-Slap-]

To be fair 1983 the fade were still aloud to mug and molest receivers back then, i wonder how a haynes and hayes would fair in todays NFL.

Not really. That was well past the rule changes which effectively eliminated the bump and run. They were enacted in 77 and 78. Haynes and Hayes played the majority of their careers after the rule changes. Besides, the Molestor patiently explained he noticed there was speck of dust on The Vance's eyelash and he was trying to help him brush it off.

[NFLBRONCO]

but it does mean we need a CB which is all i said, it is a position of need.

If CB wasn't a need why is everybody willing to spend big buck on Samuels.I agree Chaz.

[chaz]

say no to haynesworth....we dont need that POS thug

[Hercules Rockefeller]

You honestly think a national newspaper would print something using such a source?

Then point to the report(s) this guy is referring to. He didn't say he'd heard rumors from sources, he said it's already been reported. There's a difference. I'd wager that nothing gets by members of this board when it comes to media reports about the Broncos, that also includes radio reports that locals post. If there had been reports about the Broncos interest in Samuel, it'd been posted here. As of now, the only place saying Denver was interested in Samuel was that blog.

[chaz]

If CB wasn't a need why is everybody willing to spend big buck on Samuels.

if you read the thread i was talking to clockwork not you or anyone else

[Rascal]

Then point to the report(s) this guy is referring to. He didn't say he'd heard rumors from sources, he said it's already been reported. There's a difference. I'd wager that nothing gets by members of this board when it comes to media reports about the Broncos, that also includes radio reports that locals post. If there had been reports about the Broncos interest in Samuel, it'd been posted here. As of now, the only place saying Denver was interested in Samuel was that blog.

Does it freaking matter?

It was reported on the USA Today, good enough to discuss given the lack of football news.

[NFLBRONCO]

if you read the thread i was talking to clockwork not you or anyone else


I know

[chaz]

I know

think i came across as bitchy with taht last post nflbronco...didnt mean to, i apologize.

[Rascal]

For those that would continue to discuss stuff like this when there is nothing better to discuss, instead of whether or not it's been reported before, the Boston Herald is speculating that that he will get a signing bonus of 14-17 mil.

They are also speculating that he will not be tagged.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Is there another reason why it was an article on the DENVER POST that talked about Samuel being tagged?

Whoa, an article in the Post mentioned that Samuels might be tagged? That only makes the guy even more of a hack writer if that's where he got the "reported interest" from the Broncos.

Not saying they're not interested, but find me somewhere where it's actually been reported they are interested, like this guy claims. 99% of the people who read that column are going to take it as fact, that's why he can get away with writing stuff like that.

[Rascal]

Whoa, an article in the Post that mentioned that Samuels might be tagged? That only makes the guy even more of a hack writer if that's where he got the "reported interest" from the Broncos.

Not saying they're not interested, but find me somewhere where it's actually been reported they are interested, like this guy claims. 99% of the people who read that column are going to take it as fact, that's why he can get away with writing stuff like that.

And also the reason why he would get his ass fired.

[NFLBRONCO]

think i came across as b****y with taht last post nflbronco...didnt mean to, i apologize.

Its cool I wasn't bothered by it.

[Bronx33]

Not really. That was well past the rule changes which effectively eliminated the bump and run. They were enacted in 77 and 78. Haynes and Hayes played the majority of their careers after the rule changes. Besides, the Molestor patiently explained he noticed there was speck of dust on The Vance's eyelash and he was trying to help him brush it off.


All i remember is the fade still played by there own rules and got away with alot of shyt i can remember james trapp (being injured) and not even in a uniform. Coming off the sidelines to fight somebody on our team during a pushing match and he and the fade were not penalized. (just one example)

[-Slap-]

All i remember is the fade still played by there own rules and got away with alot of shyt i can remember james trapp (being injured) and not even in a uniform. Coming off the sidelines to fight somebody on our team during a pushing match and he and the fade were not penalized. (just one example)

Mike Haynes was the best cornerback of his generation and something some little ******'s asshole like James Trapp did really isn't relevant to the discussion.

[chrisp]

Reasons why we won't go after Samuel:

1) Shanny said in his end-of-season press conf that he was happy with Paymah and Foxworth and that the need in the secondary was for DEPTH, not starters.

2) Samuel will command huge money, so even if we wanted him we are arguably not in a position to bid

3) We have sooooo many other needs

4) We already have the best cornerback in the league. Period.

5) Samuel is not as good a player as Champ yet might actually cost us a bit more

Reasons why we might:

1) having two top corners on the field at the same time would be really cool....

So, carefully and judiciously weighing up the evidence, what do you think we will do??

[Bronx33]

Mike Haynes was the best cornerback of his generation and something some little ******'s asshole like James Trapp did really isn't relevant to the discussion.

That wasn't my point slap it was that the fade used to get away with alot of shyt back then (that's all)

[Hercules Rockefeller]

5) Samuel is not as good a player as Champ yet might actually cost us a bit more


They'd have to give Champ a new deal if they signed Samuel. You cannot have the unquestioned best player in the league at his postion be the 2nd highest paid player on your team at that position.

How did the Broncos reward Champ Bailey with his unanimous All-Pro selection and 2nd place in the DPOY voting? By bringing in another corner and paying him more than Champ.

[chaz]

Reasons why we won't go after Samuel:

1) Shanny said in his end-of-season press conf that he was happy with Paymah and Foxworth and that the need in the secondary was for DEPTH, not starters.

2) Samuel will command huge money, so even if we wanted him we are arguably not in a position to bid

3) We have sooooo many other needs

4) We already have the best cornerback in the league. Period.

5) Samuel is not as good a player as Champ yet might actually cost us a bit more

Reasons why we might:

1) having two top corners on the field at the same time would be really cool....

So, carefully and judiciously weighing up the evidence, what do you think we will do??

could this post be more biased? if you honestly believe having asante samuel would not benefit every other player on the field, you are crazy. just b/c he wont be getting the sacks, doesnt mean he wont contribute by covering better than foxy or paymeh could and allowing that extra half second to elvis to get into the backfield.

Your reasons, my thoughts:
1. legit thought process, but a starter adds depth just as much as a backup.

2. cost. most obvious and most sensible reason.

3. CB is a need. we aren't finding too much Dline help in FA.

4. Champ Bailey can't play on both sides.

5. you already said cost.

i'm not saying we should go out and blow our load on him, but if we did it would not be a waste, he would be a difference maker.

[broncolife]

I have a feeling we would still get burnt by the colts, since they seem to always pick on our 3rd corner anyways.

[chaz]

I have a feeling we would still get burnt by the colts, since they seem to always pick on our 3rd corner anyways.

foxworth IMO is the best nickel cb in the league

[broncolife]

I say screw FA this year. With all the other teams cap space, player prices will be inflated even with crappy players. Trade is the only way to go if we dont want to get into a bidding war and save cap space.

[broncolife]

foxworth IMO is the best nickel cb in the league

I thought he was toast during that game

[CSU Husker]

I have a feeling we would still get burnt by the colts, since they seem to always pick on our 3rd corner anyways.

A respectable pass rush sure wouldnt hurt though.

[Bronx33]

A respectable pass rush sure wouldnt hurt though.


I fully agree, it can only help and it would take alot of pressure of the DBs it's pretty easy going for a QB when you know you got all day to throw (someone is going to get open)

[broncolife]

A respectable pass rush sure wouldnt hurt though.

Excatly! A pass rusher would make everyone in the secondary better and lead to more turnovers. A corner might give our pass rush a little more time and it might also wear down our D-line more since it might take them a couple minutes to get to the qb :).I also doubt the qb will be fearing our D much with a another corner. Even if the D-line has more time to get to the qb, it also means the qb has more time to get rid of the ball and not take a beating. We need a pass rush that makes this qb think I have to get the ball off quick or I am going to be hurtin. Put the fear into him.

[chaz]

Excatly! A pass rusher would make everyone in the secondary better and lead to more turnovers. A corner might give our pass rush a little more time and it might also wear down our D-line more since it might take them a couple minutes to get to the qb :).I also doubt the qb will be fearing our D much with a another corner. Even if the D-line has more time to get to the qb, it also means the qb has more time to get rid of the ball and not take a beating. We need a pass rush that makes this qb think I have to get the ball off quick or I am going to be hurtin. Put the fear into him.

im not saying that samuel is the answer...im just saying he is one of very few difference makers on the defensive side of the ball available in FA. Very few if any are available on the dline. No one has said CB is more of a priority than dline, its just that it happens to be the only thing available. I've made it very clear that kerney is my #1 FA target, but there is no denying that two shutdown corners would be great.

[ant1999e]

New England is something like $30 million under they cap. They can easily re-sign both of them if they choose to regardless of anyones posturing.

Their past record shows they don't like to pay their players.

[Atlas]

If we could splurge and go the Washington Redskins route for one second, securing Justin Smith and Asante Samuel in the same offseason would be the closest I could ever die and go to heaven.

Man, that would be a total reincarnation of what our team is like.

I'll tell you the thing that is probably most attractive to Mike Shanahan about Asante Samuel... the guy fights his a$$ off and just shows a nasty disposition on the field. I really respect that about him.

I'm not big on this idea but I will say one thing. Samuel is a football player. He isn't a primadonna, he isn't a one year wonder who plays big around contract time. There is zero chance he will be a bust, barring injury, He is great.

[Atlas]

I'm sure the Redskins already have their sites on him.

[Orange_Beard]

I don't care how good he and Champ would be....if we get the kinda of pass rush we got this year they will get killed.

[Atlas]

If you were to pair both Champ and Samuel, where would they rank among the greatest corner tandems of all-time?

Well, they would be better than Lester Hayes and Mark Haynes.

[dragondawg]

ed reed and champ looked good together yesterday, what would you trade for him?

[chaz]

ed reed and champ looked good together yesterday, what would you trade for him?

it would take trading champ. i hope you're drunk asking that question though...

[ayjackson]

I bet NE ends the FA period and starts next year with at least 15 million in un spent cap money.

That's probably true. That's how they started this year as well (maybe not $15m). But it's how you finish the season that matters. The past few seasons NE has brought a lot of future salary into current years through converting future salary to bonuses. People think that they're cheap and don't spend to the cap, but they actually may face a penalty this year for overspending. By year end they are always in the neighbourhood of the cap. Which means that their future salaries are way lower than market. Eventually, I'd expect them to sign somebody with that built-up cap room. They may be saving it for Wilfork and Warren, but they could be bringing in Adalius Thomas and London Fletcher as well.

With Asante looking for a $15m signing bonus, he's gone though. They'll franchise Graham.

[chaz]

With Asante looking for a $15m signing bonus, he's gone though. They'll franchise Graham.

exactly what i'm afraid of....wish graham was hitting the free market

[-Slap-]

And there was talk of us trading for Bailey?

Yeah, man, I predicted it. Got all the players and terms right and everything. Unfortunately, that thread was lost in one of those archive purges.

I also predicted Elway would be good.

:angel:

[Odysseus]

Then maybe, just maybe, they should pool their resources into an upgrade at DT instead of throwing crazy dollars at another corner.

Every year the entire known world knows the Broncos need a DT and they get a new punt returner or coach of hydration.

The biggest surprise would be if the Broncos actually just go get a big gun DT. It won't happen. There will always be a logical explaination or plausible alternative or an injury or pancakes. Always. It's a cosmic rule.

[Rascal]

Yeah, man, I predicted it. Got all the players and terms right and everything. Unfortunately, that thread was lost in one of those archive purges.

I also predicted Elway would be good.

:angel:

LOL

I bow down to your evaluation of talent and predicting trades. :notworthy

BTW...see any other tackle asses you did or didn't like? :wiggle:

[-Slap-]

LOL

I bow down to your evaluation of talent and predicting trades. :notworthy

BTW...see any other tackle asses you did or didn't like? :wiggle:

I like all those big fat ugly asses at the top of the guard rankings: Blalock, Sears, Grubbs. Wrap one up, I'll take it.

It would be nice if we could actually push some people around and impose our will occasionally in obvious running situations.

[-Slap-]

Well, they would be better than Lester Hayes and Mark Haynes.

Definitely. Champ is as good as Haynes and Samuel has a lot more high quality football left in him than Hayes did in 1983.

[Atlas]

Definitely. Champ is as good as Haynes and Samuel has a lot more high quality football left in him than Hayes did in 1983.

Hayes had about 3 very good years. Once they took away his stickum he seemed to lose something too. Or maybe he just got old. I remember in 86 Elway was going after him all the time.

Lester never seemed like the brightest guy in the world. I wonder what happened to him. I always thought it would end badly for him.

[maven]

With Asante looking for a $15m signing bonus, he's gone though. They'll franchise Graham.

And with that # I hope Denver doesn't sign him. He'll get the big contract. I like what he brings to the table and he's young. Yes, he's an improvement on our team, and a heck of a lot better player than DW who was our previous starter opposite of Champ. But, I won't get into that. Damn that is a lot of money to be 2nd CB in Denver.

[Atlas]

And with that # I hope Denver doesn't sign him. He'll get the big contract. I like what he brings to the table and he's young. Yes, he's an improvement on our team, and a heck of a lot better player than DW who was our previous starter opposite of Champ. But, I won't get into that. Damn that is a lot of money to be 2nd CB in Denver.

I agree, but what if Bowlen and Shanny have determined to go all out this year for the Super Bowl. What if this year they want to break the bank on a top FA and then trade up in the draft.

Why not do this? Denver would have 2 #1 CBs and they could use their first round pick on the best DT or DE they can get.

Fergusen, Lynch, Brandon and Cox are all coming back so they can use a 2nd or 3rd to draft a safety for depth.

I unlike a lot of people here think Denver is close to being a SB team. You put Samuel in that secondary with probably the top 2 or 3 best DE or DT in the draft and tehy could be a very good team.

I don't know if I'm for this or not but if Shanny pulls the trigger I'm all on board!!!

[Atlas]

Denver not only will have the best CB tandum in the league they might have the two best CBs in the NFL. That would give shutdown a new meaning.

Teams would have to abandon their passing game to the wideouts and dink and dunk to the RBs and TEs.
Foxworth is definatley a plus as the nickleback where he could cover the other teams 3rd WR. Denver has fast LBers that are good in coverage so they can nuetralize the passsing game to the RBs and Branden is one of the best at covering the TEs. The safeties could move up to stop the run and the team could blitz more often knowing that the CBs have the coverage.

[-Slap-]

Hayes had about 3 very good years. Once they took away his stickum he seemed to lose something too. Or maybe he just got old. I remember in 86 Elway was going after him all the time.

Lester never seemed like the brightest guy in the world. I wonder what happened to him. I always thought it would end badly for him.

He got fat. Lack of conditioning ended his career a couple years early. He's having some tough times after football, but he was one of a kind.

[maven]

I agree, but what if Bowlen and Shanny have determined to go all out this year for the Super Bowl. What if this year they want to break the bank on a top FA and then trade up in the draft.

Why not do this? Denver would have 2 #1 CBs and they could use their first round pick on the best DT or DE they can get.

Fergusen, Lynch, Brandon and Cox are all coming back so they can use a 2nd or 3rd to draft a safety for depth.

I unlike a lot of people here think Denver is close to being a SB team. You put Samuel in that secondary with probably the top 2 or 3 best DE or DT in the draft and tehy could be a very good team.

I don't know if I'm for this or not but if Shanny pulls the trigger I'm all on board!!!

Samuel is a damn good young player. I just don't see Denver ponying up the cash for him. The cash spent on Samuel could be used to improve other positions. This team spends some money, but nowhere near D. Snyder money where signing Asante would be an issue.

Let say Denver gets Asante. Somehow drafted Jamaal Anderson at DE, and select Brandon Meriweather at S. This team could be loaded on defense with these 3 players.

Unfortunately, I just don't see Denver doing this.

[Atlas]

Samuel is a damn good young player. I just don't see Denver ponying up the cash for him.[b] The cash spent on Samuel could be used to improve other positions. [/b[This team spends some money, but nowhere near D. Snyder money where signing Asante would be an issue.


.

Like who??? There is no one out there Samuel's calibur. It would be great if Seymnore or Stroud or Wilfork was out there but they aren't. If Denver wanted to sign an impact player no one out there could help them more than Samuel. IMO

[maven]

Like who???

I like Asante A LOT. He's young, very good, and can get better. I just don't see Denver ponying up the money for him. It's not who, but they will distribute the money elsewhere.

[Taco John]

And with that # I hope Denver doesn't sign him. He'll get the big contract. I like what he brings to the table and he's young. Yes, he's an improvement on our team, and a heck of a lot better player than DW who was our previous starter opposite of Champ. But, I won't get into that. Damn that is a lot of money to be 2nd CB in Denver.


There's no such thing as a #1 and a #2 cornerback. There are just starting cornerbacks and back-ups. If you are a starting cornerback, then you are a #1, whether you are Champ Bailey, or the guy starting opposite of Champ Bailey.


If Asante Samuel was to come to Denver, he wouldn't be a #2 cornerback. He'd be a starting cornerback.

[NFLBRONCO]

I think one thing we need to realize is maybe Bates doesn't see that we need more then one DL upgrade this offseason. Who knows what moves we will make in FA.

[maven]

There's no such thing as a #1 and a #2 cornerback. There are just starting cornerbacks and back-ups. If you are a starting cornerback, then you are a #1, whether you are Champ Bailey, or the guy starting opposite of Champ Bailey.


If Asante Samuel was to come to Denver, he wouldn't be a #2 cornerback. He'd be a starting cornerback.

I would love for Denver to sign him. But, I hope they do not because of the type of organization we're dealing with. Denver doesn't throw money out like it's water. We're, unfortunately not the Redskins. Questioning their signings is debate worthy. But, they do spend gobs of cash every year. You have to give them credit for attempting. Denver builds championship contenders. But, this team is not endless with cash. As much and would love Denver to sign Asante, it's probably better to go a different route. Spread the cash around and sign other players at positions needed.

The draft is where it's at. Glad to atleast see improvement in that area. Jamaal Anderson & B. Meriweather will do wonders for our D. Make it happen.

[NFLBRONCO]

I would love for Denver to sign him. But, I hope they do not because of the type of organization we're dealing with. Denver doesn't throw money out like it's water. We're, unfortunately not the Redskins. Questioning their signings is debate worthy. But, they do spend gobs of cash every year. You have to give them credit for attempting. Denver builds championship contenders. But, this team is not endless with cash. As much and would love Denver to sign Asante, it's probably better to go a different route. Spread the cash around and sign other players at positions needed.

The draft is where it's at. Glad to atleast see improvement in that area. Jamaal Anderson & B. Meriweather will do wonders for our D. Make it happen.

I agree with you but, how can we get Anderson and Meriweather seems like a tall order.

[maven]

I agree with you but, how can we get Anderson and Meriweather seems like a tall order.

Anything is possible. It will take picks to secure Jamaal and Meriweather, who have the pontential to go high. Denver can make the moves to secure these players. Cutler is an example. You make the move to secure players. I may be one of the few who wasn't overly excited by the Javon trade when it went down. And somewhat to this day.

OT: I hate the Patriots more & more by the day because they make the moves and build teams like I envision a team should do.

[watermock]

We might be able to move up into the early second to get a Merriweather or Hughes.

With Champ being our zigfield line at the goal, teams will continue to look the other way. I thought I was over DWill...damn...there is a saying that you can't have enough corners. If Merriweather lasts to the early second, which I doubt, we HAVE to go get him.

There were quite a few things about DWill I will never forget...his infectious smile, his attempts to shed a hard upbringing, and mostly, how he wouldn't backdown to anyone on the field despite his size.

Champ is now the unquestioned best CB in the NFL and opposing coaches know it. God have mercy on the CB teamed opposite him.

We have to get Merriweather...plus we get someone who can kick and stomp players on the ground. He also should of been in the limo...he would of thrown a few caps into the Tahoe...

[BombsOverBaghdad]

I would love for Denver to sign him. But, I hope they do not because of the type of organization we're dealing with. Denver doesn't throw money out like it's water. We're, unfortunately not the Redskins. Questioning their signings is debate worthy. But, they do spend gobs of cash every year. You have to give them credit for attempting. Denver builds championship contenders. But, this team is not endless with cash. As much and would love Denver to sign Asante, it's probably better to go a different route. Spread the cash around and sign other players at positions needed.

The draft is where it's at. Glad to atleast see improvement in that area. Jamaal Anderson & B. Meriweather will do wonders for our D. Make it happen.

First off, do we actually have the cap room to make a Samual signing even thinkable?
Secondly, Given the scarcity of shutdown CB's, I would find it stunning that Graham would get tagged before Samuel -- so, what should we read into that, if it goes down that way?

[fontaine]

February 22nd can't get here soon enough to end this bs.

[BroncoInferno]

The problem with some of you is that you create these laundry lists of "needs" and think it imperative to address them all in order to have any shot at winning a Super Bowl. It's an understandable problem, one I fall into myself, because we follow our team more intimately than we do other teams and of course have a keener sense of problem areas versus the normal fan. But look at the two teams who played in the Super Bowl. You could make a list as long as your arm of positions where they have players who are mediocre at best. Todays NFL does not require excellence in every area to win. It's barely even possible. There is very little difference between bad teams and good teams. It really comes down to coaching and impact players. As Rascal pointed out, there is not much there in FA at DL in terms of an impact player, and certainly not someone of the quality of Samuel. A lot of folks have mentioned Oakland DT Terdell Sands as a guy who could make it to the open market that we should pursue. Does anyone really believe he'd improve our team more than a guy like Samuels would? And before anyone cries about him making more than Champ--I have a feeling Champ would be fine with it, at least for a couple of seasons. And, no, signing Samuels would not wreck our cap. The cap is extremely maleable and teams have learned how to operate around it. And, no, this team does not have to fill all the other percieved holes to win a championship. They just need to make more timely plays at whatever position can deliver them. Samuels is a guy who can do that.

[-Slap-]

I like Asante A LOT. He's young, very good, and can get better. I just don't see Denver ponying up the money for him. It's not who, but they will distribute the money elsewhere.

I don't really see him getting a whole lot better. He took his game to a much higher level this season and I think we're seeing his peak.

[BroncoFiend]

February 22nd can't get here soon enough to end this bs.

February 22nd will END the bs?! LOL

[Paladin]

Feb 22 will only intensify the BS. But that's not a bad thing.....

[chaz]

The problem with some of you is that you create these laundry lists of "needs" and think it imperative to address them all in order to have any shot at winning a Super Bowl. It's an understandable problem, one I fall into myself, because we follow our team more intimately than we do other teams and of course have a keener sense of problem areas versus the normal fan. But look at the two teams who played in the Super Bowl. You could make a list as long as your arm of positions where they have players who are mediocre at best. Todays NFL does not require excellence in every area to win. It's barely even possible. There is very little difference between bad teams and good teams. It really comes down to coaching and impact players. As Rascal pointed out, there is not much there in FA at DL in terms of an impact player, and certainly not someone of the quality of Samuel. A lot of folks have mentioned Oakland DT Terdell Sands as a guy who could make it to the open market that we should pursue. Does anyone really believe he'd improve our team more than a guy like Samuels would? And before anyone cries about him making more than Champ--I have a feeling Champ would be fine with it, at least for a couple of seasons. And, no, signing Samuels would not wreck our cap. The cap is extremely maleable and teams have learned how to operate around it. And, no, this team does not have to fill all the other percieved holes to win a championship. They just need to make more timely plays at whatever position can deliver them. Samuels is a guy who can do that.

thank you. thank you. thank you.

[broncosteven]

Denver not only will have the best CB tandum in the league they might have the two best CBs in the NFL. That would give shutdown a new meaning.

Teams would have to abandon their passing game to the wideouts and dink and dunk to the RBs and TEs.
Foxworth is definatley a plus as the nickleback where he could cover the other teams 3rd WR. Denver has fast LBers that are good in coverage so they can nuetralize the passsing game to the RBs and Branden is one of the best at covering the TEs. The safeties could move up to stop the run and the team could blitz more often knowing that the CBs have the coverage.

I still think that Foxworth is a damn good CB & we have a more pressing need at BOTH Safety Positions. I still think Lynch can contribute but we really need a stud at Safety to help in both Run game & shutting down passing attacks.

I still wonder what China Browns Future will be, if they feel he will make the field then I could see them dump the cash at CB/FS.

[broncosteven]

The problem with some of you is that you create these laundry lists of "needs" and think it imperative to address them all in order to have any shot at winning a Super Bowl. It's an understandable problem, one I fall into myself, because we follow our team more intimately than we do other teams and of course have a keener sense of problem areas versus the normal fan. But look at the two teams who played in the Super Bowl. You could make a list as long as your arm of positions where they have players who are mediocre at best. Todays NFL does not require excellence in every area to win. It's barely even possible. There is very little difference between bad teams and good teams. It really comes down to coaching and impact players. As Rascal pointed out, there is not much there in FA at DL in terms of an impact player, and certainly not someone of the quality of Samuel. A lot of folks have mentioned Oakland DT Terdell Sands as a guy who could make it to the open market that we should pursue. Does anyone really believe he'd improve our team more than a guy like Samuels would? And before anyone cries about him making more than Champ--I have a feeling Champ would be fine with it, at least for a couple of seasons. And, no, signing Samuels would not wreck our cap. The cap is extremely maleable and teams have learned how to operate around it. And, no, this team does not have to fill all the other percieved holes to win a championship. They just need to make more timely plays at whatever position can deliver them. Samuels is a guy who can do that.


I would not evauluate needs of the team solely by talent position by position. No one can field the best players in the NFL at each position.

What I expect & hope that Shanny does is looks at the years upcoming schedule & the teams we face & build a team geared to:

Beat teams in our Division
Compeat against the NFC Central

What do we have in the AFC West?

2 great RB's for 4 games a year, 1 decent RB 2 games a year.
1 very good Passing team in SD that is now in flux
1 over the hill passing team that is now focused on RUN 1st, pass to TE 2nd.
1 awful team that has a good D.

The NFC Central has a Bear Team with flaws & over rated D but 1 very good RB & 1 decent RB.
Packer team on rebound that Passes 1st, but had success on ground in past.
Lions team that is bad,
Vikings team that has no direction at QB.

Build me a team that wins 7 of those 10 games.

My Priorities on D would be: DE, DT, FS,True SAM LB, maybe corner depth. Then Go shopping for tweaks on O.

Stop the run 1st then focus on the pass. Easy, right -slap-?

[Atlas]

I still think that Foxworth is a damn good CB & we have a more pressing need at BOTH Safety Positions. I still think Lynch can contribute but we really need a stud at Safety to help in both Run game & shutting down passing attacks.

I still wonder what China Browns Future will be, if they feel he will make the field then I could see them dump the cash at CB/FS.

You say that but what FA safety are you going to get??
Branden, Fergusen, Cox, and Lynch will all be back next year. Denver can draft a safety to replace one of them after next year.

[cutthemdown]

You say that but what FA safety are you going to get??
Branden, Fergusen, Cox, and Lynch will all be back next year. Denver can draft a safety to replace one of them after next year.

I agree with this thinking. It's not like every position is available in FA with a player that is an impact type player. You make a list of the best FA regardless of position then go for a couple of them and hope the want to play for you. Then you take a look at the role players and if you are in need of some of those etc etc. Asante Samual is a great tackler for a corner and Broncos seem to like that in a CB. I could see Broncos going for him if he's not tagged. Especially considering we lost our second best corner.

[-Slap-]

Stop the run 1st then focus on the pass. Easy, right -slap-?

That has always been the priority. Although, with all the rule changes favoring QBs and WRs now, I think you probably stand a better chance of going all the way if you're stronger against the pass than the run.

[watermock]

Guys like Lynch are a dying breed. I watched some of the 80's Bronco games and was amazed how Smith and Atwater would of been ejected about 5 times.

You used to be able to head slap an OT...gone...You used to be able to bang around till the ball was in the air...gone...you used to be able to lead with the helmet...gone...you could faceguard...gone...go for the knees of the QB...gone...put a feather duster on the QB's helmet...gone...more than 1.5 steps to the QB, personal foul. QB's are starting to flop like punters and soccer players now.

IMO, the most difficult position on the field isn't the QB, it's the CB's. We need to move up early second or even late first to get Merriweather if we don't get Samuel. I had always hoped that DWill could be placed in the slot at Fox or Pay could take over the other end. Maybe this year Paymah will break out. Losing DWill hurts. He wasn't lockdown, but was constantly picked on for one obvious reason...Champ...our goal line defense.

[broncosteven]

That has always been the priority. Although, with all the rule changes favoring QBs and WRs now, I think you probably stand a better chance of going all the way if you're stronger against the pass than the run.

Won't a stong Pass rush make an Avg CB like Foxworth better?

I would rather see them go wide Body at DT & Stud at DE than spend lots of $ at 2nd CB spot when we have a solid guy there who played at FS in a pinch already.

No CB is really going to help in run support. Champ will make tackles down field (which he has been amazing at) but not up at the line.

Nothing is more frustrating that watching a team march down field & control the clock like we used to do with TD or KFC did to us with LJ.

[broncosteven]

You say that but what FA safety are you going to get??
Branden, Fergusen, Cox, and Lynch will all be back next year. Denver can draft a safety to replace one of them after next year.

The 2 guys from the Jags & Vikings. I just spent over an hour in my car due to snow so I am too tired to look up their names.

[Orange_Beard]

Pats are going to spend the cash:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/02/16/patriots.samuel.ap/index.html

[ayjackson]

Guys like Lynch are a dying breed. I watched some of the 80's Bronco games and was amazed how Smith and Atwater would of been ejected about 5 times.

You used to be able to head slap an OT...gone...You used to be able to bang around till the ball was in the air...gone...you used to be able to lead with the helmet...gone...you could faceguard...gone....


faceguarding is legal again....it was taken out of the rulebook a couple of years ago. someone just forgot to tell the refs in the AFC championship game.

[2KBack]

Won't a stong Pass rush make an Avg CB like Foxworth better?

I would rather see them go wide Body at DT & Stud at DE than spend lots of $ at 2nd CB spot when we have a solid guy there who played at FS in a pinch already.

No CB is really going to help in run support. Champ will make tackles down field (which he has been amazing at) but not up at the line.

Nothing is more frustrating that watching a team march down field & control the clock like we used to do with TD or KFC did to us with LJ.

Champ had 85 tackles last season, do you really think those were all downfield?

Champ has had more tackles than DJ Williams the last 2 seasons

[Bronx33]

faceguarding is legal again....it was taken out of the rulebook a couple of years ago. someone just forgot to tell the refs in the AFC championship game.


Really? slap is this true?

[watermock]

I didn't hear anything about that...

[usedupbraids]

plzzzzzzzzz i hope this is ture

[BroncoBuff]

The problem with some of you is that you create these laundry lists of "needs" and think it imperative to address them all in order to have any shot at winning a Super Bowl. It's an understandable problem, one I fall into myself, because we follow our team more intimately than we do other teams and of course have a keener sense of problem areas versus the normal fan. But look at the two teams who played in the Super Bowl. You could make a list as long as your arm of positions where they have players who are mediocre at best. Todays NFL does not require excellence in every area to win. It's barely even possible. There is very little difference between bad teams and good teams. It really comes down to coaching and impact players. As Rascal pointed out, there is not much there in FA at DL in terms of an impact player, and certainly not someone of the quality of Samuel. A lot of folks have mentioned Oakland DT Terdell Sands as a guy who could make it to the open market that we should pursue. Does anyone really believe he'd improve our team more than a guy like Samuels would? And before anyone cries about him making more than Champ--I have a feeling Champ would be fine with it, at least for a couple of seasons. And, no, signing Samuels would not wreck our cap. The cap is extremely maleable and teams have learned how to operate around it. And, no, this team does not have to fill all the other percieved holes to win a championship. They just need to make more timely plays at whatever position can deliver them. Samuels is a guy who can do that.

Great post, but I disagree with your conclusion. Making Assante Samuel the highest paid Bronco is insanity in my view. And while you're correct that we can't shore up every position, we're loaded - relatively - at CB.

Disagree? Okay, where are we more loaded? DE? DT? S? LB? NOw you see what I mean ...

And imo Dominique is going to be awesome. He seems to be excellent in coverage, Mike Mayock praised him in a film breakdown on NFL Network in his rookie year, and I can't recall seeing him burned yet.

[ayjackson]

Really? slap is this true?

former NFL referee Jerry Markbreit says in his own great column (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/askthereferee/cs-070123askjerrymarkbreit,1,3472374.story?coll=chi-sportstop-hed)on the Chicago Tribune's web site that face-guarding isn't illegal:

A defensive player who makes no contact with an intended receiver, even though he is not looking at the ball, commits no foul ... the interference must have been caused by the defender bumping into the intended receiver, without looking at the football.