Well, With My PC Fried...

[orangeatheist]

Looks like I'm going to have to get some replacement parts. Anyone know if this combination of CPU/MB, RAM and video card is worth a darn?

I'm looking at the following:

AMD Athlon 64 4000+ San Diego 2.4GHz 1MB L2 Cache Socket 939 Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103037

ASUS A8R-MX/SI Socket 939 ATI Radeon Xpress 200 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131049

Kingston HyperX 512MB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Desktop Memory
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820144112

GECUBE HV195PG3-D3(RoHS) Radeon X1950PRO 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814241038


I AM OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS!! But I'm on a budget!

[shakenbake]

get a mac

[Rock Chalk]

Get something cheap until the Quad's come out.

[watermock]

You would be better served just getting a new one. My two year old E-Machine has a 3+ Athlon, 80 gigs 512meg ram, 17 inch flat and a DVDRW...picked it up on clearance at Wally World for 350. Not one problem so far. It also has two media slots, no floppy at all. I tried to rebuild a puter years ago and it drove me insane. Learned alot but likely forgotten at this point.

[Willynowei]

Micro ATX? Is that the size of your case?

What are you going to use this system for? Gamming? You've got all that money piled up on the outdated GFX card so I'm i guess thats what you want to do.

When it comes to building PCs TODAY, theres only one setup and that involves C2D. If you are absolutely set on AMD then don't touch the 939 socket, it is way outdated.

That said, are you sure the memory from your last one is fried?

Give me your budget and parts needed. If you want to go wayy cheap, then you shouldn't even build your own. Anything less than $500 budget for full PC and you might as well buy a dell.

[orangeatheist]

Micro ATX? Is that the size of your case?

What are you going to use this system for? Gamming? You've got all that money piled up on the outdated GFX card so I'm i guess thats what you want to do.

When it comes to building PCs TODAY, theres only one setup and that involves C2D. If you are absolutely set on AMD then don't touch the 939 socket, it is way outdated.

That said, are you sure the memory from your last one is fried?

Give me your budget and parts needed. If you want to go wayy cheap, then you shouldn't even build your own. Anything less than $500 budget for full PC and you might as well buy a dell.


Willy, I sent you a PM. You sound like just the kinda guy I need to talk to! :thumbsup:

[SoDak Bronco]

Get something cheap until the Quad's come out.

Get something cheaper until the dual Quad's come out.

[BroncoBuff]

Get something cheap until the Quad's come out.

Do you mean "Quad" as in "dual core" - quad core?


What's the time frame on that?

[orangeatheist]

The question is: What is "cheaper"? What can run what I want the rig to run while I amass all that extra cash to make a monster machine?

[Willynowei]

Dude, I got your PM, here's some suggestions.

$800 just touching where the best deals are ($800-1300). Lets see what we can do here. I will recomend two setups. Can you use your old case and old HDD? I will assume you can.

1.) Future ready with high level processor, mid level gfx. The best "investment". Total - $792 before shipping w/o case.

Processor: $222 - C2D E6400
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115004
Mobo: $127 - Gigabyte DS3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128012
RAM: $68 - Kingston 667
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820134216
GPU: $215 (AR) - x1950xt 256mb
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102067
Powersupply:$130 (AR) - OCZ Game-XTREME 700W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817341002
DVD+RW (I assume you don't need help w/ that): $30

2.) High level GFX, mid level CPU. *Same motherboard, RAM, PSU and DVD drive* - Total w/o case: $802

CPU: $92 - Pentium D 805
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116001
GPU: $355 - 8800GTS 512mb
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?DEPA=0&type=&Description=8800GTS&Submit=ENE&N=0&Ntk=all&Go.x=0&Go.y=0
--------------------------
I highly recommend #1, GPUs depreciate faster than CPUs so spending less on GPU is always the better choice. Both setups will run every game at max settings for any videophile up to late this year. When Crysis comes out, the second setup will seperate itself from the first.

However, when Crysis comes out you can upgrade your GPU anyways, so i do recommend #1.

If you cant use your current case I recommend the Sunbeam, look it up, its $82. Or for a cheaper one, get the Centurion models, I think they go around $50. PSU, to go cheaper you can try OCZ 600w which is great as well for $30 less. Hard drives are on sale everywhere, just make sure you get SATA and 7500rpm (no more or less). Don't buy Raptors, if you must have fast harddrives, let me know and I'll tell you how to raid.

I'm assuming you play games at 1280x1024. You should tell me if otherwise.

Last note: If you are an AMD fan, make sure you get 64X2s (dual core), 3800+ X2 is faster than a 4000+ thats single core. Never go 939 socket, only AM2.

EDIT: If you need both a new Case AND a new HDD, then you will want to cut down the price on that powersupply, and maybe you can reuse your old DVD drive? I shouldn't even have put it in there, take $30 off each.

But let me know your price range for PSU, they are extremely important to your system.

[Willynowei]

Also if you are an enthusiast, both those systems can be overclocked exponentialy.

E6400 i think is 2.2Ghz stock, it can easily go to 3.2-3.4 and touch 3.6 when needed on Fans.

The 805d, with the right equipment goes up to 4Ghz. But don't get too excited, a 4Ghz Pentium D is about the speed of a 2.2Ghz E6400.

Both of those are faster than ANYTHING AMD has below $250. And the 6400 can beat out anything under $600. AMD is not a viable choice today, they lost the lead last year and Intel leap-frogged them by a full generation. They used to be good though, just not anymore.

[orangeatheist]

I'm assuming you play games at 1280x1024. You should tell me if otherwise.

Last note: If you are an AMD fan, make sure you get 64X2s (dual core), 3800+ X2 is faster than a 4000+ thats single core. Never go 939 socket, only AM2.


Willy,

Man, you're awesome! I am seriously considering your recommendation (#1) minus the DVD drive. I do play in 1280x1024.

I am an AMD fan, tho'. Can I ask why you recommend Intel? I just don't have much experience with them.

With that said, I took your advice and looked at the AMD 64x2 3800+ and I'd like your opinion (and anyone else's, too!).

Check this combo ($279) out:
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+(65W) Windsor 2.0GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103733

XFX MB-N590ASH9 Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 590 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813141001

And what about this video card:
EVGA 256-P2-N624-AR GeForce 7900GS 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 ($170)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130056


RAM:
Kingston 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Desktop Memory ($70)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820134045

Total: $650
(Keeping my case, HHD and DVD)

EDIT TO ADD:
Both of those are faster than ANYTHING AMD has below $250. And the 6400 can beat out anything under $600. AMD is not a viable choice today, they lost the lead last year and Intel leap-frogged them by a full generation. They used to be good though, just not anymore.

Ok. I didn't see this until after I made the above AMD post....you've got me second-guessing myself now!

[Willynowei]

Willy,

Man, you're awesome! I am seriously considering your recommendation (#1) minus the DVD drive. I do play in 1280x1024.

I am an AMD fan, tho'. Can I ask why you recommend Intel? I just don't have much experience with them.

With that said, I took your advice and looked at the AMD 64x2 3800+ and I'd like your opinion (and anyone else's, too!).

Check this combo ($279) out:
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+(65W) Windsor 2.0GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103733

XFX MB-N590ASH9 Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 590 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813141001

And what about this video card:
EVGA 256-P2-N624-AR GeForce 7900GS 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 ($170)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130056


RAM:
Kingston 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Desktop Memory ($70)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820134045

Total: $650
(Keeping my case, HHD and DVD)

EDIT TO ADD:


Ok. I didn't see this until after I made the above AMD post....you've got me second-guessing myself now!

Hey dude, heres why I recommend Intel:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/07/14/core2_duo_knocks_out_athlon_64/page12.html#games

A E6400 overclocked (with stock fans, only soft clock) is better for gamming than a 6800 extreme and look at the difference between the 6800 and the FX-50 X2s, those are AMD's top line. Even the FX-62 x2 ($550) cannot keep up with C2D processors, in anything, not just gamming.

Heres why the 805d:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/10/dual_41_ghz_cores/page39.html

Thats a $92 processor beating anything and everything AMD has once it is overclocked. Check out the benchmarks for yourself, the 4800+ x2s can't even keep up with it, nevermind a 3800+.

AMD before July of this year was top dog, now they are bottom dwellers, unfortunately. Intel processor prices have not dropped in 8 months, they've actually gone up because of this. They are on a smaller die production.

If you want a cheap video card here is a guide from TH:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/02/06/the_best_gaming_video_cards_for_the_money/page3.html

Are you reusing the old powersupply? This can be dangerous when you put in newer, higher performing parts. I always feel that you should be very serious about PSU, it lasts you for years. They don't depreciate like performance parts.

[orangeatheist]

Willy,

After reading your post and reconsidering, here's what I came up with:


Processor: $222 - C2D E6400
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115004

Mobo: $133 - Gigabyte DS3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128012

RAM: $69 - Kingston 667
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820134216

GPU: $215 (AR) - x1950xt 256mb
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102067

Powersupply:$110 (AR) - OCZ GameXStream OCZ600GXSSLI ATX12V 600W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817341001

Hard Drive: $53 - Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600JS 160GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144415

Sound OK?

[Willynowei]

But Orange, if you really really want to stay with 3800, i can't stop ya haha.

Just my recommendation then would be to lower your price-range for the mobo. AMD's supposed advantage is cheaper mobos, look for a stable one, not n-force SLI boards, they are over priced and you don't save money on SLI setups as long as you are not too lazy to ebay your old cards.

But remember this point, always have DDR2 ram in your system and always in 1gig sticks. Worst case scenario for the future is having outdated ram sticks. Ram prices in the market are allegedly fixed by Infineon, Samsung and Micron. So always buy future proof ram.

[Willynowei]

Willy,

After reading your post and reconsidering, here's what I came up with:


Processor: $222 - C2D E6400
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115004

Mobo: $133 - Gigabyte DS3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128012

RAM: $69 - Kingston 667
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820134216

GPU: $215 (AR) - x1950xt 256mb
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102067

Powersupply:$110 (AR) - OCZ GameXStream OCZ600GXSSLI ATX12V 600W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817341001

Hard Drive: $53 - Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600JS 160GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144415

Sound OK?

Perfect. That thing will be blazing fast. In the future, when you find good hard drive deals for another 160gb HDD, buy it and RAID your two hard drives. Won't help much with gamming, but in just about everything else will double your performance.

[Willynowei]

I also recommend, when you get the cash, to grab an arctic silencer pro for your 1950xtx, because that card is very very fast and hot. It uses a high decible fan, first build the system and use it.

If it gets loud, you should drop the extra $25 for a big low noise fan.

[orangeatheist]

Based on your article regarding less expensive video cards, what do you think of this:

HIS Hightech H195PRF256DDN-R Radeon X1950PRO 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP for $155.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161060

Is it worth the savings? Would I notice a big difference between the cards for most games today?

OH!! And do I need a CPU fan?

[Willynowei]

Based on your article regarding less expensive video cards, what do you think of this:

HIS Hightech H195PRF256DDN-R Radeon X1950PRO 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP for $155.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161060

Is it worth the savings? Would I notice a big difference between the cards for most games today?

OH!! And do I need a CPU fan?

Hey dude, thats tricky. Because the 1950xt is worth the price for the extra performance but ATI's new line is comming out with-in the month (so the rumor goes). Likely that will drive the prices down a big notch, and that makes the cheaper card here more attractive. Otherwise the 1950pro should run most games maxed with the exception of a few.

You don't need a fan for the Conroe, b/c it can Oc without increasing voltage (heat) which is why its so nice. If you want to push it though, you can grab an arctic freezer, which is brilliantly designed CPU fan that is aligned with your case fan.

[maven]

Get something cheaper until the dual Quad's come out.

dual-quad, 16 core, 32 core, 64 core, etc... They will be coming out in the next few years/decades. The faster and sooner the better.

[Popps]

Should we set up some kind of "my PC died today" sticky thread?

[Popps]

Get something cheap until the Quad's come out.

Quads are already out, boss.

Mac rolled them out in 2005, and just released the Mac Pro quads... blazing fast. Just ask "PC Pro".... a predominantly PC based webzine....

The quad-core Apple Mac Pro has set new records in PC Pro's benchmarks, in the UK's first independent speed test of the latest Intel-based Mac.
The Mac Pro is fitted with two of the top-end workstation-orientated Xeon CPUs. This effectively makes it a quad-core machine, and it's fabulously fast for CPU-intensive tasks, as long as the application in question is able to use them all.

Immediately abandoning the pre-installed copy of Mac OS X, we popped a copy of Windows XP Professional on the machine using Apple's Boot Camp beta. The results, in terms of pure performance, speaks volumes for the ability of Intel's new processors - and

Apple's ability to build systems around them.

The machine achieved record-breaking speeds in our multiple-applications test, where we run demanding tasks in Microsoft Office, Photoshop and a music decoder simultaneously, so keeping all four cores constantly busy. The result was almost three times faster than the reference Pentium D-based computer that PC Pro's labs

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/95175/apple-mac-pro-is-crowned-the-fastest-pc-in-the-uk.html

[Willynowei]

Oh, and orange, don't get Quad core. Useless for gamming and won't be useful for 3 years minimum. I'd get into it but you wouldn't want me to ;)

[orangeatheist]

Hey dude, thats tricky. Because the 1950xt is worth the price for the extra performance but ATI's new line is comming out with-in the month (so the rumor goes). Likely that will drive the prices down a big notch, and that makes the cheaper card here more attractive. Otherwise the 1950pro should run most games maxed with the exception of a few.

You don't need a fan for the Conroe, b/c it can Oc without increasing voltage (heat) which is why its so nice. If you want to push it though, you can grab an arctic freezer, which is brilliantly designed CPU fan that is aligned with your case fan.


Thanks a bunch, again!

So, the Radeon X1950PRO should do me fine and give me good performance out of most of the games on the market today (and save me about $50 toward a new case), right?

The game I'm trying to run states as a graphics recommendation: "Vertex and Pixel shader 2.0 compatable hardware with 256MB of texture memory." Now I don't know what the hell that means but does the X1950PRO fit that bill?

[GreatBronco16]

Seriously, did you use Tomshardware to show why Intel is better than AMD?? Tom has been proven to be a fanboy over the years and has been caught lying before on his tests and setups. Now things might have changed with him over the years, but I wouldn't recommend his site to anybody.

Anyway, those setups look really good. Either way, AMD or Intel, you can't go wrong with any of them. Just go with the one you feel more confortable with.

[Willynowei]

Thanks a bunch, again!

So, the Radeon X1950PRO should do me fine and give me good performance out of most of the games on the market today (and save me about $50 toward a new case), right?

The game I'm trying to run states as a graphics recommendation: "Vertex and Pixel shader 2.0 compatable hardware with 256MB of texture memory." Now I don't know what the hell that means but does the X1950PRO fit that bill?

Hey dude, yes, the x1950 pro actually supports Shader Model 3.0 and below (includes 2.0). The 8800 series supports Shader Model 4.0

Its basically Directx 9 vs. Directx 10. Shader Model 2.0 is Directx 9.0b, which is an older version of Microsoft's API.

[Willynowei]

Seriously, did you use Tomshardware to show why Intel is better than AMD?? Tom has been proven to be a fanboy over the years and has been caught lying before on his tests and setups. Now things might have changed with him over the years, but I wouldn't recommend his site to anybody.

Anyway, those setups look really good. Either way, AMD or Intel, you can't go wrong with any of them. Just go with the one you feel more confortable with.

Whether tom is biased or not doesn't make a difference. I could've refered to any site online and they all would have the same conclusion that C2D blows anything else out of the water. Check Ars or Anandtech if you want.

I've built plenty of PCs lately, used all three processors, 3800+ X2, 805 d and the E6400 (which I own as well). AMD used to be king and Tom used to praise them like all other review sites.

Its not bias when the benchmarks says your product is inferior, it simply is.

[orangeatheist]

Whether tom is biased or not doesn't make a difference. I could've refered to any site online and they all would have the same conclusion that C2D blows anything else out of the water.

Crap. Let's just muddy the water up some more, okay?

I just found this: http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-10442_7-6389077-1.html?tag=lnav

[Willynowei]

Crap. Let's just muddy the water up some more, okay?

I just found this: http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-10442_7-6389077-1.html?tag=lnav

The water is not muddy at all. That is an old review, and the C2D processors are not included.

Also, the 805D is only faster when OVERCLOCKED.

Also, never use CNET for reviews, they aren't wrong in this case, but generally speaking they are not for the PC enthusiast. They are very mainstream and their editors wouldn't know much more than someone like me. They hire people who can write, not people who know their sh*t.

Here I'll save you the time of looking this crap up even further.

QX6700
C2D Ex 6800
E6700
E6600
E6400
E6300
E4300
then..
D 900's
then...
D 800's

AMD

FX-60 X2
FX-50 X2
4800+ X2
4700+ X2
all the way till...
3800+ X2
then...
4800
4700
untill...
3800

etc.,

QX (intel) > C2D (intel) > 64 X2 (AMD) > D series (Intel) > 64 series (AMD) > Pentium 4 series (intel)

QXD and C2D both came July 2006 and August 2006 respectively.

Any review before those dates are useless. 805d is only good when overclocked. Only thing missing here i think are the AMD 4x4s are just 64 X2s stuck together with marginally better performance for a LOT more money.

I hope I've saved you digging time.

[orangeatheist]

Willy,

After doing more reading and taking your suggestions seriously, here's what I came up with which I'll order from New Egg today, pending your expert approval!


Processor: $222 - C2D E6400
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115004

Mobo: $133 - Gigabyte DS3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128012

RAM: $69 - Kingston 667
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820134216

GPU: $160 (AR) JetWay X19PR-ED-256M Radeon X1950PRO 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814153034

Powersupply:$110 (AR) - OCZ GameXStream OCZ600GXSSLI ATX12V 600W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817341001

Hard Drive: $53 - Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600JS 160GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144415

Sunbeam IC-SS-SVBK Black/Silver Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case ($60/$50 after rebate)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811166030


Am I cookin' with gas now?

[LordHelmchen]

Looks good to me, but one question. Why in the world save on the RAM?? You seriously decimate your overclocking ability by taking the 677 version...



Oh, and I'd take a Seagate HD over a WD any day, expect a raptor.

[Willynowei]

Willy,

After doing more reading and taking your suggestions seriously, here's what I came up with which I'll order from New Egg today, pending your expert approval!


Processor: $222 - C2D E6400
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115004

Mobo: $133 - Gigabyte DS3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128012

RAM: $69 - Kingston 667
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820134216

GPU: $160 (AR) JetWay X19PR-ED-256M Radeon X1950PRO 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814153034

Powersupply:$110 (AR) - OCZ GameXStream OCZ600GXSSLI ATX12V 600W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817341001

Hard Drive: $53 - Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600JS 160GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144415

Sunbeam IC-SS-SVBK Black/Silver Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case ($60/$50 after rebate)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811166030


Am I cookin' with gas now?

That looks good to me. Its something great to start with and you can move on with more stuff later. The sunbeam i was talking about was full tower, the cheapest full tower. But midtower will do fine.

GL on it.

[LordHelmchen]

I'd rather save a few bucks on the PSU... PSUs are absolutely overrated IMO. While it's important to have a good one, you can get sufficient ones with enough power and stability for less bucks. I'd really recommend spending more on the RAM.. get 2x 1 GB DDR2 800 .. if you want to stay cheap but still get some quality, try G.Skill e.g.

[Willynowei]

Looks good to me, but one question. Why in the world save on the RAM?? You seriously decimate your overclocking ability by taking the 677 version...



Oh, and I'd take a Seagate HD over a WD any day, expect a raptor.

Seagate is nice, Western Digital is fine too. The RAM isn't cheap, but come to think of it, I've never used kingston so good point on that, i don't know their product well.

[Willynowei]

Orange, use this ram instead of the Kingston for now.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/CustratingReview.asp?item=N82E16820220088

Its patriot and works well with the Intel line of board you are using. Its also cheap and the voltage won't give your board problems.

[Willynowei]

I'd rather save a few bucks on the PSU... PSUs are absolutely overrated IMO. While it's important to have a good one, you can get sufficient ones with enough power and stability for less bucks. I'd really recommend spending more on the RAM.. get 2x 1 GB DDR2 800 .. if you want to stay cheap but still get some quality, try G.Skill e.g.

PSU is just about everything, he ever decides to upgrade his GFX card which he probably will in 6-8 months, he's going to need that PSU. His hard drive stability is mainly dependant on PSU. Overclocking is going to need power as well, not necessarily more watts. I don't know ampage/wattage ratings per line, but a great PSU makes a steady PC.

G.skill is nice, crucial is nicer, he could spend $500 on RAM and still not have the best. Thats not the point, the point is that his processor has a 8x multiplier and the CPU would be running at 3.2Ghz by the time he hits 400FSB. 800 DDR2 Ram runs perfectly right there, if you jack the frequency higher, you will lower performance.

[LordHelmchen]

WD certainly produce fine HDs, but in my experience they have a higher failure rate than the Seagates. Might be my limited experience only, but I worked in PC shops a few years ago, and the return rate was quite a bit higher for WD. Their replacement service was top notch though. Maxtor was the worst though (except during the time of the infamous IBM 80 GB HDs).

Right now I use several Seagates, 2 in a server running 24/7 I'm absolutely satisfied with the very low noise levels , the speed and the reliability.

Kingston certainly are a well-known and established brand, and compatibility or stability wise there shouldn't be any problem, but I'd definitely go for the 800 MHz version. If you go for CL4 though, it gets a bit more expensive. Yesterday I spent 285 Euros on 2x 1 GB Corsair Dominators CL4 (but only because the shop with the cheaper G.Skill RAM (215 Euro, same timings) was already closed). I'm more than happy with the performance though.
Getting the E6600 up to 3300 without a problem with he stock fan, mem running @ 915.. I lowered the timing to CL5 though as I didn't want to crank up the voltage. Didn't try more yet, as I just got it yesterday. I will replace the stock fan though.

[LordHelmchen]

PSU is just about everything, he ever decides to upgrade his GFX card which he probably will in 6-8 months, he's going to need that PSU. His hard drive stability is mainly dependant on PSU. Overclocking is going to need power as well, not necessarily more watts. I don't know ampage/wattage ratings per line, but a great PSU makes a steady PC.

G.skill is nice, crucial is nicer, he could spend $500 on RAM and still not have the best. Thats not the point, the point is that his processor has a 8x multiplier and the CPU would be running at 3.2Ghz by the time he hits 400FSB. 800 DDR2 Ram runs perfectly right there, if you jack the frequency higher, you will lower performance.

I agree that the PSU is really important, I don't want to deny that at all.. I never ever built in a cheap PSU in any of my PCs, but I just think some totally overdo it... I just wanted to say, if he s on a budget, save a few bucks (you should get a decent one for about 80) on the PSU and invest it in the mem.



I agree on the 800.. that's all I wanted to say.. don't take the 667, and take 2 modules , not one.

[Willynowei]

WD certainly produce fine HDs, but in my experience they have a higher failure rate than the Seagates. Might be my limited experience only, but I worked in PC shops a few years ago, and the return rate was quite a bit higher for WD. Their replacement service was top notch though. Maxtor was the worst though (except during the time of the infamous IBM 80 GB HDs).

Right now I use several Seagates, 2 in a server running 24/7 I'm absolutely satisfied with the very low noise levels , the speed and the reliability.

Kingston certainly are a well-known and established brand, and compatibility or stability wise there shouldn't be any problem, but I'd definitely go for the 800 MHz version. If you go for CL4 though, it gets a bit more expensive. Yesterday I spent 285 Euros on 2x 1 GB Corsair Dominators CL4 (but only because the shop with the cheaper G.Skill RAM (215 Euro, same timings) was already closed). I'm more than happy with the performance though.
Getting the E6600 up to 3300 without a problem with he stock fan, mem running @ 915.. I lowered the timing to CL5 though as I didn't want to crank up the voltage. Didn't try more yet, as I just got it yesterday. I will replace the stock fan though.

You're running your ram on a divider there. You might not want to do that. I'm too lazy to go digg up the articles but when you run 1:1 FSB:Memory, you get better results because one doesn't have to wait for the other to sync.

The DS3 was fairly new when i bought it and i had to go with a list of RAM sticks that were compatible, so i was just looking out for Orange. 1.8v is best, and if its too far from that, the Mobo has trouble booting it. The compatibility is probably a lot better now that the 965P,G boards have been out so long. The main reason that stuff happened was because it was so brand new tech.

EDIT: If you ever get a chance, get Ballistix from crucial. Those things are nuts. $170 per gig I think. Very fast, and overclock much faster. A 800mhz ballistix will probably reach 1100mhz before frying.

[LordHelmchen]

ah I don't think this is an issue anymore.. as you have different clock speeds anyway. FSB of the CPU is 266 quad pumped and 200 quad pumped for the memory.. and 1066 RAM is frigging expensive. The issues with 1:1 FSB memeory were especially with the first VIA chipsets for the Ahtlon XP, e.g. the KT400. DDR 400 would run considerably slower than D333 , which was matched with he FSB of the CPU @ 166.

I have a DS3 as well, but the new DS3P.

[LordHelmchen]

If I'd match FSB and RAM, it would have to run @ 1464 ..ouch... ;D

[Bronx33]

After reading this thread i realize( i really don't know squat about computers)

[Willynowei]

ah I don't think this is an issue anymore.. as you have different clock speeds anyway. FSB of the CPU is 266 quad pumped and 200 quad pumped for the memory.. and 1066 RAM is frigging expensive. The issues with 1:1 FSB memeory were especially with the first VIA chipsets for the Ahtlon XP, e.g. the KT400. DDR 400 would run considerably slower than D333 , which was matched with he FSB of the CPU @ 166.

I have a DS3 as well, but the new DS3P.

Well one of us is flat out wrong, or were not talking about the same thing.

Because Double Data Rate Ram (DDR) is Double Pumped. So 800mhz data rate is 400mhz frequency and that is your memory bandwidth.

E6600 I think is 9x multiplier. So if you ran your memory to FSB 1:1 by lowering your memory to 667mhz rated, then thats 333mhz in reality. Your CPU would run at a frequency of 333mhz and pump out 9 instructions per cycle (multiplier).

9 X 333 = 2.997Ghz or 3.0 Ghz.

The reason that this is still an issue is because if you ran your CPU at 333mhz FSB and your ram at 800mhz rated then the divider would be 333mhz:400mhz.

This affects your northbridge i believe which has to sync the two frequencies together. Sure each part is pumping out different numbers of sets of instructions, but your frequencies still are better off matched up.

I'm not sure which part takes the stress when they aren't matched up, again I'm a little lazy and also pressed for time to look for that article...

maybe later though.

[LordHelmchen]

DDR is double pumped, DDR2 is quad pumped ;)

[LordHelmchen]

ok, you got me confused.

Your example doesn't apply to my case as I run it @ 366. But let's look at your example.

You run the E6600 @ 9 X 333 = 2.997Ghz or 3.0 Ghz

With DDR2 - 800 with the most closely matched multiplier to the stock speed you run it @ 828 MHz.

And that gives you a bandwidth of 6.6 GB/s in single channel mode. and you run it just a slight bit above spec.


If you take DDR2 - 677 , you will run the memory a lot above spec just to get to the same bandwidth.

Or do I misunderstand you completely wrong right now?

I state it again, I'm confused right now ;D

[Willynowei]

woah okay i think i see whats going on here....

I think we are going wayyyy over both our heads, but here is the very little i know about what I think you are getting at.

From the very little I understand is that DDR2 is not actually "Quad Pumped" but its considered that way, because the bit rate is increased I believe. They double it from 128 to 256 bit rate, you can tell on the mobo when you see the double edged cells.

Pump means, two instruction cycles are sent out each clock, when you go from Double pumping to DDR2 you go from two pumps (2 instructions) to two pumps with double the bit rate.

Now look i won't pretend to know wtf that means, i know that in tests its proven that when you match the clock cycle of a DDR2 with a CPU FSB you will get better performance. I also know that when they used DDR, the limitation came from the bit rate, and people would use dual channel capable mobos to boost ram effectiveness. But DDR2 is supposedly no longer limited by the bit rate and thus Dual channel doesn't help.

But yeah one is Instructions per cycle, other is total bitrate. I know it would make sense that the bandwidth of information sent is all that matters so its important i go look it up later.

Hey dude, I'd like to dig this stuff up again, but give me a few days when i have time. I gotta hunker down and do some work right now.

EDIT:

lAll I can really say is that increasing bit rate is more of a bandwidth increase than a multiplication of instructions.

But honestly I know a little about how transistors work, and then i know a little about how computers work. To go from the boolean gates to an actual working computer, the series in there, and why bit rate and instruction rate differ, i can't tell you anything lol.

[Willynowei]

ok, you got me confused.

Your example doesn't apply to my case as I run it @ 366. But let's look at your example.

You run the E6600 @ 9 X 333 = 2.997Ghz or 3.0 Ghz

With DDR2 - 800 with the most closely matched multiplier to the stock speed you run it @ 828 MHz.

And that gives you a bandwidth of 6.6 GB/s in single channel mode. and you run it just a slight bit above spec.


If you take DDR2 - 677 , you will run the memory a lot above spec just to get to the same bandwidth.

Or do I misunderstand you completely wrong right now?

I state it again, I'm confused right now ;D

woah DDR - 667 is at 333Mhz is what I'm talking about... 828mhz? is that a stuck setting on your mobo?

Does your bios allow manual clocks on the RAM?

[orangeatheist]

OK!!!

I've already hit the order button at NewEgg so it's too late to turn back now!

Here's what I ordered

(I'm keeping my old case [it should be fine, two 120mm fans and a side cpu fan], my DVD drive and SoundBlaster card)

MOTHERBOARD: GIGABYTE GA-965P-DS3 LGA 775 Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128012

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 Conroe 2.13GHz 2M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115004

VIDEO CARD: BFG Tech BFGR78256GSOC GeForce 7800GS 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 AGP 4X/8X Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143046

PSU: OCZ GameXStream OCZ600GXSSLI ATX12V 600W Power Supply 100 - 240 V CB/CE/CSA/UL/FCC
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817341001

MEMORY: Patriot 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820220088

HARD DRIVE: Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 ST3120811AS 120GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148161

[Willynowei]

Woah, why did you switch the GFX card at the last minute?

Dude thats an AGP card, your board doesnt even support it. AGP has been outdated for... dude I think 2 or 3 years now?

You're going to have to switch that card out, just return it to newegg, and tell them that it arrived Dead. They will refund you, and buy a different card.

Also.... even if you did find the 7800gs for PCI slot, why would you want to take that card over the x1950pro? The 7800gs is like... Iunno 13 months old? The pro just came out i think.

[Orange_Beard]

You forgot to add $200 for your copy of XP.

[Willynowei]

You forgot to add $200 for your copy of XP.

FIrst off, XP is far from $200, second he probably already has the disc. Third even if he didnt...

I won't say it, but i think its implied.

[Orange_Beard]

FIrst off, XP is far from $200, second he probably already has the disc. Third even if he didnt...

I won't say it, but i think its implied.

You are a scumbag.

[Willynowei]

You are a scumbag.

Tell that to over 60 million Americans including just about every teenager in your neighborhood and 40% of all internet users.

[Orange_Beard]

Ok, If you think stealing is cool, you are a scumbag.

Do you some how think that if everyone is doing it, that makes it OK?Scumbag.

[Willynowei]

Did i say stealing was cool?

You obviously came into this thread with the intention of derailing it, whos the scumbag?

Also, if you actually read my post, you'll notice, I assumed he had the disc, if he doesnt, it would mean he lost it. Which is fine b/c if he has the CD-key he can acquire it through other means.

Now, 40 million is just the number who admit it. I would say just about everyone has listened, used a mp3 without purchasing a cd to "try it".

Do feel good about justifying your own theft and then criticizing other people? Or are you using this as leverage, a tool to derail the thread and attack me?

You are probably too ignorant to know why I said "its implied", probably because at the slightest mention of something like this, we risk the Orangemane being shut down. It wasn't some lingo to consider it cool.

Maybe next time you can use your head, if you choose so.

[orangeatheist]

Woah, why did you switch the GFX card at the last minute?

Dude thats an AGP card, your board doesnt even support it. AGP has been outdated for... dude I think 2 or 3 years now?

You're going to have to switch that card out, just return it to newegg, and tell them that it arrived Dead. They will refund you, and buy a different card.

Also.... even if you did find the 7800gs for PCI slot, why would you want to take that card over the x1950pro? The 7800gs is like... Iunno 13 months old? The pro just came out i think.

Cuz I was stupid.

I was reading the requirements of a game I have and it said the "GeForce 7800 or better you will be able to turn on all of the NVIDA special effect features at higher resolutions in the game". So, I changed my order at the last minute without reading it was an AGP card. I wasn't really thinking.

I'll try to make the change with NewEgg.

[LordHelmchen]

woah DDR - 667 is at 333Mhz is what I'm talking about... 828mhz? is that a stuck setting on your mobo?

Does your bios allow manual clocks on the RAM?


nope 828 is the end result.. when I change the FSB, the memory speed cannot be adjusted independently, so I end up with a base memory speed of 207 MHz * 4 = 828. I can manually adjust the settings, but only by multipliers/dividers in correlation to the FSB.

I knew you meant DDR 667 @ 133 but that doesn't make sense to me. As you can only change the core speed of the mem and not the multiplier. You have FSB and memory clock matched, but you lose more than 1 GB/s of bandwidth.


Now, I have to hurry to work ...

[maven]

For fun. Intel introduces an 80 core CPU.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/11/business/chip.php

[watermock]

After reading this thread i realize( i really don't know squat about computers)

If they want to geek out and build their own puters, that's fine. Once enough of Beezers fur overheats this PC I will make a QT to Wally World and get whatever is on clearance. If this one lasts two or three more years what they are geeking over will be standard issue for under 500 bucks, and ready out of the box. My brother built a radio in his lunchbox decades ago...it's still intriguing to get in the guts. I would just assume get it ready to roll and not worry about conflicting hardware or ports.

Every puter I have bought has gotten markedly better, and markedly less expensive every time. I can understand the facination with building yours from scratch, but I prefer to drive mine out of the showroom.

[Orange_Beard]

Did i say stealing was cool?

You obviously came into this thread with the intention of derailing it, whos the scumbag?

Also, if you actually read my post, you'll notice, I assumed he had the disc, if he doesnt, it would mean he lost it. Which is fine b/c if he has the CD-key he can acquire it through other means.

Now, 40 million is just the number who admit it. I would say just about everyone has listened, used a mp3 without purchasing a cd to "try it".

Do feel good about justifying your own theft and then criticizing other people? Or are you using this as leverage, a tool to derail the thread and attack me?

You are probably too ignorant to know why I said "its implied", probably because at the slightest mention of something like this, we risk the Orangemane being shut down. It wasn't some lingo to consider it cool.

Maybe next time you can use your head, if you choose so.

You think dereailing a thread and stealing are equal? A doubt the lawyers at MS would agree.

You quoted the guy a price on a P.C., I simply pointed out that you left off the price of a copy of XP. You told the guy to "Third even if he didnt...
I won't say it, but i think its implied."

Why not just tell the guy to steal a PC?

I did not attack you, you told me who you are, a THIEF. I am just calling it as I see it.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I did not attack you, you told me who you are, a THIEF. I am just calling it as I see it.
LOL

"You are a scumbag" must mean good morning sir?

[Circle Orange]

Looks like I'm going to have to get some replacement parts. Anyone know if this combination of CPU/MB, RAM and video card is worth a darn?

I'm looking at the following:

AMD Athlon 64 4000+ San Diego 2.4GHz 1MB L2 Cache Socket 939 Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103037

ASUS A8R-MX/SI Socket 939 ATI Radeon Xpress 200 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131049

Kingston HyperX 512MB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Desktop Memory
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820144112

GECUBE HV195PG3-D3(RoHS) Radeon X1950PRO 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814241038


I AM OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS!! But I'm on a budget!


Sounds like your system cost anywhere from $800-$1300.

Put it this way...if the replacement parts cost LESS than 50% of the original price, get it fixed. If not, get a new system. :sunshine:

[Willynowei]

You think dereailing a thread and stealing are equal? A doubt the lawyers at MS would agree.

You quoted the guy a price on a P.C., I simply pointed out that you left off the price of a copy of XP. You told the guy to "Third even if he didnt...
I won't say it, but i think its implied."

Why not just tell the guy to steal a PC?

I did not attack you, you told me who you are, a THIEF. I am just calling it as I see it.

*sigh*

Okay man, i sent you a private message explaining what I meant. And no where did I admit to stealing or say that he SHOULD steal. What someone else does is their business, i don't judge them on an internet messageboard - in fact, I explained to you in the pm clearly that I meant replacement.

Its fine, I'm a scumbag, now stop stealing this thread.

[Willynowei]

nope 828 is the end result.. when I change the FSB, the memory speed cannot be adjusted independently, so I end up with a base memory speed of 207 MHz * 4 = 828. I can manually adjust the settings, but only by multipliers/dividers in correlation to the FSB.

I knew you meant DDR 667 @ 133 but that doesn't make sense to me. As you can only change the core speed of the mem and not the multiplier. You have FSB and memory clock matched, but you lose more than 1 GB/s of bandwidth.


Now, I have to hurry to work ...

Huh? You're losing me here, when I work with a Bios i first change the adjust the divider (2:1 or 1:1). Then i tweak the FSB and other options usually include the mem timings if its a real customizable bios and a voltage setting.

667@333mhz is exactly how it shows on the Bios, and exactly how it shows on CPU-z and all the other monitoring utilities I use.

But right, basically when I lower the frequency to match the CPU it reduces the bandwidth. There is a trade off there, so I believe somewhere near the middle is best. BUt then this is why I say save on memory sometimes, if its a speed you're never going to use you know.

[LordHelmchen]

With the DS3P I first set the FSB .. in this case I set it from 266 to 366. Then I automatically see at which speed the RAM would be running, and then I adjust the divider so that the mem runs close to its original specifications.

I really have to do more research because to be honest, it's been a few years now since I was really into this stuff (and my work in that area) and read about it every single day etc. I read a few forum posts this morning and it seems like there is still,like you said, really a performance penalty when FSB and MEM clock are not in sync. But I do believe however that the penalty is not as harsh as losing a considerable amount of bandwidth. I need to look benchmark results though and do some testing myself a bit.

The short Sandra tests I did yesterday showed me that my mem performance is indeed quite good.

But, I think, for me it would be best to drive the FSB up to 400 MHz (that's a whopping 1200 MHz more than the stock speed..yehaaa) and then adjust the divider for the ram so that it is running at its native speed (if the BIOS lets me do that). Let me try this later at home.

[LordHelmchen]

LOL

"You are a scumbag" must mean good morning sir?



:rofl:

[Orange_Beard]

LOL

"You are a scumbag" must mean good morning sir?

What else to you call a thief?

[LordHelmchen]

What else to you call a thief?


where really do you take it that he is a thief? He just stated the obvious, that some.. or rather . many, use pirated versions operating systems. That's a simple fact. Why do you get worked up so much over it?

And before you attack me as a thief as well, I just spent 200 Euro for Vista Ultimate 2 days ago...

[Orange_Beard]

where really do you take it that he is a thief? He just stated the obvious, that some.. or rather . many, use pirated versions operating systems. That's a simple fact. Why do you get worked up so much over it?

And before you attack me as a thief as well, I just spent 200 Euro for Vista Ultimate 2 days ago...

There are free OS's. So if you want to use something for free use a free one.
If you want to use a product that is produced by a company then pay for it. If you are stealing a product, you are stealing, you are a scumbag.

Pretty simple.

Not plannng on "attacking" you. I did'nt really mean to come off that way. The whole "everyone is doing it" arguement really pisses me off.

What version of Vista do you get for 200 euro's?

[LordHelmchen]

I still don't see how Willy said that he uses a pirated versio,... ok, let's just put the stealing stuff aside..



I got the Vista Ultimate 32 BIT DSP/SB version. The only difference to the retail version is that it doesn't have the disks for both 32 and 64 bit included. you can buy them from Microsoft though, for something like 12 Euros or so.

[LordHelmchen]

oh, and yes.. no microsoft support.. but who needs that anyway ;D

[Willynowei]

With the DS3P I first set the FSB .. in this case I set it from 266 to 366. Then I automatically see at which speed the RAM would be running, and then I adjust the divider so that the mem runs close to its original specifications.

I really have to do more research because to be honest, it's been a few years now since I was really into this stuff (and my work in that area) and read about it every single day etc. I read a few forum posts this morning and it seems like there is still,like you said, really a performance penalty when FSB and MEM clock are not in sync. But I do believe however that the penalty is not as harsh as losing a considerable amount of bandwidth. I need to look benchmark results though and do some testing myself a bit.

The short Sandra tests I did yesterday showed me that my mem performance is indeed quite good.

But, I think, for me it would be best to drive the FSB up to 400 MHz (that's a whopping 1200 MHz more than the stock speed..yehaaa) and then adjust the divider for the ram so that it is running at its native speed (if the BIOS lets me do that). Let me try this later at home.

Thats fine dude, what you could try is lowering the multiplier all the way down to 8x. Run the Front side bus at 400mhz and see how your PC runs at 3.2Ghz, maybe push it further, to 450mhz and see how it runs at 3.6ghz.

That will run your DDR @ 900 rated.

[Donk]

Isn't it legal to transplant xp from a dead computer to a replacement machine.

[Donk]

Stealing form Microsoft = Lying to congress.

[orangeatheist]

Willy,
A buddy of mine who installed XP on his new AMD dual core said he had to load it differently (patches?). What do I need to know to load XP for this dual core Intel machine in order for it to work properly? I'm being told it isn't as easy as just loading the disk (which, by thr way) I did buy from Neweggj)

[LordHelmchen]

Hmm, I actually think he means it was different because he switched from PATA to SATA disks.. that's the only thing that would make sense to me now.
If you have Windows XP with SP2 there should be limited AHCI support in it, so set the SATA controller to AHCI mode (if you don't have a XP SP2 installation CD.. you can slipstream one if you have a previous version (no SP or SP1) installation CD) and you should be good. Else, either copy the SATA driver on a floppy and Press F6 during the installation (it will show when to do ) to install the necessary driver from the floppy. Or you could set your BIOS to emulate IDE and thus skip the part with installing add drivers. I would prefer AHCI or installing the add. drivers at setup.

[LordHelmchen]

or you could prepare a installation CD which has the drivers already built-in, but I guess that is too much of a hassle.

[Willynowei]

Willy,
A buddy of mine who installed XP on his new AMD dual core said he had to load it differently (patches?). What do I need to know to load XP for this dual core Intel machine in order for it to work properly? I'm being told it isn't as easy as just loading the disk (which, by thr way) I did buy from Neweggj)

No difference, there is a rare 64 bit version of XP that i don't know if New egg has, your PC would support that. Otherwise your PC can run the normal 32bit as well. If you have raid, you'll need to install the controller through a floppy first, but i doubt you do, so everything should be smooth once its up and running.

After its installed, you may want to go through the "house keeping" process to setup your new PC so its 100% ready(Bios updates first, then driver updates, turn on Windows auto update).

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Willy,
A buddy of mine who installed XP on his new AMD dual core said he had to load it differently (patches?). What do I need to know to load XP for this dual core Intel machine in order for it to work properly? I'm being told it isn't as easy as just loading the disk (which, by thr way) I did buy from Neweggj)OA, you might want to look at these sites about dual core optimization post install.
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_871_13118,00.html
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=81429.

[LordHelmchen]

OA, you might want to look at these sites about dual core optimization post install.
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_871_13118,00.html
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=81429.

He should certainly not look at those sites with his Intel rig ;D

[bronco militia]

http://techdigest.tv/pcmaclinux.jpg

[Bronco_Beerslug]

He should certainly not look at those sites with his Intel rig ;DOoops, sorry, I thought he had an AMD. :holyguac!

[orangeatheist]

He should certainly not look at those sites with his Intel rig ;D

Well, are there any sites I should look at to help me put this system together?

I've built PCs in the past and usually it's just:

1.) Put CPU on motherboard.
2.) Install RAM
3.) Attach motherboard to case
4.) Make PSU connections
5.) Hook up HD
6.) Hook up DVD drive
7.) Hook up video card
8.) Hook up soundcard
9.) Turn power on
10.) Go to BIOS and make sure start-up sequence is right (booting from CD if have bootable CD..change this to HD when finished)
11.) Format/partitian hard drive
12.) Load XP
13.) Load drivers for video card, soundcard
13.) Get online, go to MS and load updates

If there is something else I'm missing I sure would like some advice!!

Thanks!

[orangeatheist]

Just found these two articles on Microsoft:

"Computers that are running Windows XP Service Pack 2 and that are equipped with multiple processors that support processor power management features may experience decreased performance"
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/896256

and

"Game performance may be poor on a Windows XP-based computer that is using a dual-core processor"
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/909944/

Looks pretty straight-forward but I welcome any advice!
:confuzzle

[Willynowei]

Just found these two articles on Microsoft:

"Computers that are running Windows XP Service Pack 2 and that are equipped with multiple processors that support processor power management features may experience decreased performance"
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/896256

and

"Game performance may be poor on a Windows XP-based computer that is using a dual-core processor"
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/909944/

Looks pretty straight-forward but I welcome any advice!
:confuzzle

A comet may strike tommorow and we may all die.

Seriously though, thats just MS covering their own arses I bet. There isn't a non-dual core machine that could keep up with FEAR on medium lol.

EDIT: NVM, did you read the article orange? I just did and I don't see how it applies to you.... lol.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Well, are there any sites I should look at to help me put this system together?

I've built PCs in the past and usually it's just:

1.) Put CPU on motherboard.
2.) Install RAM
3.) Attach motherboard to case
4.) Make PSU connections
5.) Hook up HD
6.) Hook up DVD drive
7.) Hook up video card
8.) Hook up soundcard
9.) Turn power on
10.) Go to BIOS and make sure start-up sequence is right (booting from CD if have bootable CD..change this to HD when finished)
11.) Format/partitian hard drive
12.) Load XP
13.) Load drivers for video card, soundcard
13.) Get online, go to MS and load updates

If there is something else I'm missing I sure would like some advice!!

Thanks!
Pretty much it. You can leave it to boot CD first and it'll still boot up no problem. You also can format and partition from the XP installation disc. I don't know how large your harddrive is but I always make a partition for the OS only (usually around 20 GBs) and install programs and everything else on another partition(s). I never let ANY program install to the C: (OS) partition but that's just me. Read instructions for drivers that came with your MB and I always like to visit the MB forum I'm installing to see if I should be aware of anything for it before I put it all together to.

Make sure you're not shuffling around in your socks gathering up static electricity when installing everything. :)

[Willynowei]

Pretty much it. You can leave it to boot CD first and it'll still boot up no problem. You also can format and partition from the XP installation disc. I don't know how large your harddrive is but I always make a partition for the OS only (usually around 20 GBs) and install programs and everything else on another partition(s). I never let ANY program install to the C: (OS) partition but that's just me. Read instructions for drivers that came with your MB and I always like to visit the MB forum I'm installing to see if I should be aware of anything for it before I put it all together to.

Make sure you're not shuffling around in your socks gathering up static electricity when installing everything. :)

Beerslug - priceless advice. Making those partitions and backing up your registry could save you hours and hours someday. At some point you might have to resort to it, and if you ever do you'll be glad your OS is on an island away from the stuff that you "nuke" with a reformat.

[LordHelmchen]

Nothing really.. Intel states though that you should attach the CPU after you built in the mobo, but I do it the other way round most of the time, doesn't really matter.

If you don't have a installation CD with SP2 , then I'd first install SP2 . After that install chipset drivers (and the Intel Matrix Storage Manager), the video , then sound card. But really, it doesn't matter that much. It was more important a few years ago, with VIA chipsets for example where you had IRQ problems when you didn't install some drivers/patches first (or does anybody remember the AMD K62-350 being too fast for Win95 and thus you had to clock it down to 300 first, install a patch and when get it back to 350?).
And don't use the drivers you get on CD, use new ones from the respective websites.

Also I make a lot of adjustments in the BIOS before booting up, but that's not needed at all.

I'd also look for overclocking utilities for the video card (e.g. coolbits reg fix for nvidia) if you want to get the maximum out of your box. I don't have really that much experience with ATI cards, but Nvidia cards usually can be overclocked quite a bit.

[LordHelmchen]

Beerslug - priceless advice. Making those partitions and backing up your registry could save you hours and hours someday. At some point you might have to resort to it, and if you ever do you'll be glad your OS is on an island away from the stuff that you "nuke" with a reformat.

absolutely.. I follow this practice since my very, very first format ;D

I also make images of my c partition after a fresh install, and then maybe later when I reached a state where I have all necessary things installed.
The rest gets backed up with utilities and so on. Though, with XP I never needed a reinstall so far. Also, if something with a driver or software installation goes wrong, the built-in restore feature works pretty well.

I also move my documents to another partition and back that up to my server as well. And the most important stuff is saved online as well.

[LordHelmchen]

I install my usual tools and stuff on c: as well, only games and certain selected programs on d: or another partition. If you use Outlook move the pst file to another partiton as well... really important ;D Though as I switched over to use IMAP it doesn't really matter anymore.
But I know so many ppl who backup up everything..except for their pst file :afro: Also I move the Favorites folder to My documents and for Firefox I use an online saving extension.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Also, a little tip for those who don't use the hibernation feature. In XP just turn it off and the hiberfil.sys file is eliminated which takes up 2 GBs on your C: (OS) partition. In Vista, right click on the Command Prompt, run as administrator and type ( powercfg -h off ) without the parenthesis, hit enter and the 2 GB file is gone. :)

[LordHelmchen]

yup, good tip.. so I see you have 2 Gigs of RAM ;D

[Bronco_Beerslug]

yup, good tip.. so I see you have 2 Gigs of RAM ;D :) Between my trading programs, music, browser, email and whatever else I may be using all at the same time I thought I better go ahead put in some good memory (and the max).
Very happy that I did now!

[LordHelmchen]

there's nothing like too much mem (unless your OS doesn't support it) ;D

[orangeatheist]

Ok, ok, hold on now, fellers! Slow down!

When I boot up for the first time with the fresh, new harddrive, Windows installer will ask if I want to partition the drive. You are saying to designate about 20gig and tell Windows to install there? What about the rest of the space? Prior to loading Windows on the 20gig partition, will it ask if I want to partition the rest? And then will I just designate which partition to load Windows to?

So, that begs another question since I've never had multiple partitions: How does the second partition work? Will it have a drive letter? Or will it just be another portion on the HD? Not sure how all that works having never done it before.

[orangeatheist]

Make sure you're not shuffling around in your socks gathering up static electricity when installing everything. :)

By the way, no chance of static electricity when I build PCs. I do it on my glasstop dining table which sits on a wooden floor. Also, I do my work in the nude wearing only rubber-soled tennis shoes. :wiggle:

[LordHelmchen]

You can partition the second one as well there, or a third or whatever, or you can just partition the first partition and then install windows there. you can choose in which partiton to install, but just take the first. You can partiton the other ones in Windows then. They have disk letters assigned (though you can choose not to).

[LordHelmchen]

I personally would recommend a bit more than 20.. like 32 or so. But that's just preference...

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Ok, ok, hold on now, fellers! Slow down!

When I boot up for the first time with the fresh, new harddrive, Windows installer will ask if I want to partition the drive. You are saying to designate about 20gig and tell Windows to install there? What about the rest of the space? Prior to loading Windows on the 20gig partition, will it ask if I want to partition the rest? And then will I just designate which partition to load Windows to?

So, that begs another question since I've never had multiple partitions: How does the second partition work? Will it have a drive letter? Or will it just be another portion on the HD? Not sure how all that works having never done it before.:)

OA you don't have to create the 20 GB partition for the OS if you don't want to but if you do, don't worry about the rest of your harddrive until after you boot into Windows (after installation of XP).

And yes it will ask you if you want to install Windows on the partition you created and or you can direct it to which partition to install to.

You can then format and create more partitions if you want to on the rest of your harddrive in Windows at your leisure. For every partition you create you get the option of what drive letter and or name you want on it. You can see how my partitions look below.

Take your time and enjoy your new creation :)


http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/301/drivesvh6.jpg



By the way, no chance of static electricity when I build PCs. I do it on my glasstop dining table which sits on a wooden floor. Also, I do my work in the nude wearing only rubber-soled tennis shoes. :wiggle:

:~ohyah!:
You're having way too much fun doing this!!!

[orangeatheist]

Hey guys!

My supplies should arrive tomorrow. I decided to find the motherboard's manual online to read up on what to expect. Glad I did. I've come across a few things that are confusing. I sure could use a hand!

The manual is a PDF found here: http://america.giga-byte.com/FileList/Manual/motherboard_manual_ga-965p-ds3p_e.pdf
If you want to see what I'm reading, I'll put the PDF page number in parenthesis near my questions:

The first thing that's tripping me up is the manual's mention of (page 21) CPU_FAN / SYS_FAN / PWR_FAN. Now, I understand "CPU Fan" but what is meant by "Sys Fan" and "Pwr Fan"? My case has two fans (one in back, one in front) and they are currently hooked up to power cords coming from the PSU itself. I can't imagine that these would plug directly into the MB. What are they talking about?

Next, there is the discussion of SATA connectors (page 23). Having never installed one I don't know what the manual is saying! There are four total connections, the first three of which are called SATAII0 / 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 (SATA 3Gb/s Connector, Controlled by ICH8R). The fourth is called GSATAII0 / GSATAII1 (SATA 3Gb/s Connector, Controlled by GIGABYTE SATA2). I have ordered one SATA drive. Into which connection should it go? (By the way, I have no floppy drive* so I have no way to load any SATA (AHCI??) drivers. XP is suppose to ship with SP2 on it. I'm hoping SP2 will help me here.)

Then, as far as the BIOS is concerned, should I just leave it alone? Or (keeping in mind I have no FDD) should I set the SATA RAID / AHCI Mode to AHCI on the Integrated Peripherals screen (page 38)? Or, as I'm reading, will SP2 take care of that for me once XP is installed?


*NOTE- Geez. I was just reading the Appendix, Configuring SATA Hard Drive(s) (page 69-79) and it looks like I MUST have a FDD. However, under the section GIGABYTE SATA2 Controller (page 80) it looks like this may be an alternative. I just don't know! HELP!!

[LordHelmchen]

CPU_FAN / SYS_FAN / PWR_FAN:
since quite some time now more connectors on the board like for the CPU fan have been added. The advantage of plugging them onto be the board is that the Mobo can read out its status (rpms etc. ) and that they are controllable by software for example.
No worries, you can still use your old fans and connect them directly to the PSU.
Without looking at the PSU you ordered I highly suspect that it has an additional fan with a connector to the board. Plug that onto the PWR-Fan connector.

I'd use on of the SATAII0 / 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 connectors as I prefer the ICH8R, it's the Intel chipset. Which one doesn't really matter, but just for the feeling of it, use 0 ;D

The best way for the installation would probably be to use a slipstream CD:

http://www.maximumpc.com/2005/01/how_to_slipstre.html

Then you can enable AHCI already in the BIOS.

There are some other ways to do it as well..But maybe you could just try to install it with the XPSP2 CD like it comes, as it has limited AHCI support and I think the Intel SATA controller is already supported.

[Willynowei]

Orange, try to read the whole manual, I have the board and the answers are all in there.

The GSata's are Raid capable plugs, you can use any of them and it won't matter. Leave the Controller as is, you only have to change it when you do RAID.

Before messing with anything you should update the Bios. Read everything carefully, the board comes with OC software, don't use it, but do install the drivers. To OC, do it manually through BIOS, becareful.

Good luck

[orangeatheist]

ALERT!

Hey, guys. Materials came today and I'm in the process of installing the CPU. No biggie. They make it monkey-proof. However, I'm getting ready to put on the CPU fan/heatsink and I'm not sure what to do! The instructions that came with the CPU and the one-page layout with the MotherBoard don't mention using thermal tape/paste between the CPU and the fan. In fact, the sheet that came with the MB titled "Boxed Intel Processor Installation Instructions," say "Be careful not to damage the thermal interface material attached to the bottom of the fan heatsink". There are three "strips" of a tannish material on the bottom of the fan heatsink so I'm assuming that's the interface material.

However, the instructions that came with the MB state, "Please apply an even layer of heat paste on the surface of the installed CPU."

Every time I've built PCs in the past I've always used thermal tape/paste. I'm assuming the specific instructions for the Intel CPU apply here and that I need to ignore the more general instructions that came with the MB. But I don't want to blow this.

Is the material on the bottom of the heatsink/fan the thermal material? Is this all I need? Just install as-is? No paste/tape required?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

ALERT!

Hey, guys. Materials came today and I'm in the process of installing the CPU. No biggie. They make it monkey-proof. However, I'm getting ready to put on the CPU fan/heatsink and I'm not sure what to do! The instructions that came with the CPU and the one-page layout with the MotherBoard don't mention using thermal tape/paste between the CPU and the fan. In fact, the sheet that came with the MB titled "Boxed Intel Processor Installation Instructions," say "Be careful not to damage the thermal interface material attached to the bottom of the fan heatsink". There are three "strips" of a tannish material on the bottom of the fan heatsink so I'm assuming that's the interface material.

However, the instructions that came with the MB state, "Please apply an even layer of heat paste on the surface of the installed CPU."

Every time I've built PCs in the past I've always used thermal tape/paste. I'm assuming the specific instructions for the Intel CPU apply here and that I need to ignore the more general instructions that came with the MB. But I don't want to blow this.

Is the material on the bottom of the heatsink/fan the thermal material? Is this all I need? Just install as-is? No paste/tape required?Yeah, you can either remove the thermal material that came with your heatsink and use your own or leave it. I'd probably just use what came stock.

[orangeatheist]

Yeah, you can either remove the thermal material that came with your heatsink and use your own or leave it. I'd probably just use what came stock.

Sweeet!

Wish I could buy ya a beer! Back to the installation!!

[orangeatheist]

Ok. I've got another problem/question.

On the motherboard there are two power connections. One is labled ATX and has 24 pins. The other is labled ATX 12V and has 4 pins. The 24pin connection is along the edge of the board near the memory slots. The 4pin is near the CPU.

The powersupply I have has a 20pin connector (labled "Main") "bundled" with a smaller 4pin connector (labled "24"). They are bundled in such a way that they cannot be easily separated by more than an inch or so and that is not nearly enough space for the 20pin to connect to the 24pin slot in the motherboard and the 4pin to connect near the CPU.

However, the powersupply also comes with two 4pin connectors that are labled CPU1 and CPU2.

I have connected the paired 20pin and 4pin connectors to the long 24pin slot on the motherboard near the memory. I have taken the cable labled CPU1 and plugged it into the 4pin slot near the CPU. All connections fit snuggly and I did not need to force anything.

Have I done this right? I'm concerned because the manual that came with the motherboard seems to imply that I don't need to plug the "spare" 4pin connector (paired with the 20pin) into the 24pin slot. The manual states, "If you use a 24pin ATX power supply, please remove the small cover on the power connector on the motherboard before plugging in the power cord; Otherwise please do not remove it." Well, it seems like I have a 20pin ("Main") AND a 24pin ("Main" + "24") power supply! And, there was no "small cover" on the power connector to remove or keep in place.

Just don't want to fry the board, fellas. Thanks again for the help!!!

[Willynowei]

Ok. I've got another problem/question.

On the motherboard there are two power connections. One is labled ATX and has 24 pins. The other is labled ATX 12V and has 4 pins. The 24pin connection is along the edge of the board near the memory slots. The 4pin is near the CPU.

The powersupply I have has a 20pin connector (labled "Main") "bundled" with a smaller 4pin connector (labled "24"). They are bundled in such a way that they cannot be easily separated by more than an inch or so and that is not nearly enough space for the 20pin to connect to the 24pin slot in the motherboard and the 4pin to connect near the CPU.

However, the powersupply also comes with two 4pin connectors that are labled CPU1 and CPU2.

I have connected the paired 20pin and 4pin connectors to the long 24pin slot on the motherboard near the memory. I have taken the cable labled CPU1 and plugged it into the 4pin slot near the CPU. All connections fit snuggly and I did not need to force anything.

Have I done this right? I'm concerned because the manual that came with the motherboard seems to imply that I don't need to plug the "spare" 4pin connector (paired with the 20pin) into the 24pin slot. The manual states, "If you use a 24pin ATX power supply, please remove the small cover on the power connector on the motherboard before plugging in the power cord; Otherwise please do not remove it." Well, it seems like I have a 20pin ("Main") AND a 24pin ("Main" + "24") power supply! And, there was no "small cover" on the power connector to remove or keep in place.

Just don't want to fry the board, fellas. Thanks again for the help!!!

Hey dude,

Open up the manual for your powersupply and see what it says. It sounds like theres nothing to worry about to me.

The 24pin is the main power line to your board, therefore, there is really no chance of frying it because in order for the motherboard to turn on the powersupply in the first place it needs the power from the 24pin.

You should be safe, this isn't a big issue, but read the PSU manual anyways.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Ok. I've got another problem/question.

On the motherboard there are two power connections. One is labled ATX and has 24 pins. The other is labled ATX 12V and has 4 pins. The 24pin connection is along the edge of the board near the memory slots. The 4pin is near the CPU.

The powersupply I have has a 20pin connector (labled "Main") "bundled" with a smaller 4pin connector (labled "24"). They are bundled in such a way that they cannot be easily separated by more than an inch or so and that is not nearly enough space for the 20pin to connect to the 24pin slot in the motherboard and the 4pin to connect near the CPU.

However, the powersupply also comes with two 4pin connectors that are labled CPU1 and CPU2.

I have connected the paired 20pin and 4pin connectors to the long 24pin slot on the motherboard near the memory. I have taken the cable labled CPU1 and plugged it into the 4pin slot near the CPU. All connections fit snuggly and I did not need to force anything.

Have I done this right? I'm concerned because the manual that came with the motherboard seems to imply that I don't need to plug the "spare" 4pin connector (paired with the 20pin) into the 24pin slot. The manual states, "If you use a 24pin ATX power supply, please remove the small cover on the power connector on the motherboard before plugging in the power cord; Otherwise please do not remove it." Well, it seems like I have a 20pin ("Main") AND a 24pin ("Main" + "24") power supply! And, there was no "small cover" on the power connector to remove or keep in place.

Just don't want to fry the board, fellas. Thanks again for the help!!!

That all should be correct OA.

[orangeatheist]

Thanks, guys. Yeah, the manual that came with the power supply was worthless to me. I checked with a couple of other fellas I work with that build PCs and they said I did it right.

The stuff is keyed. It's pretty hard to screw this up.

I fired the puppy up and she's humming along. I'm installing Windows at the moment.

Got my fingers crossed.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Thanks, guys. Yeah, the manual that came with the power supply was worthless to me. I checked with a couple of other fellas I work with that build PCs and they said I did it right.

The stuff is keyed. It's pretty hard to screw this up.

I fired the puppy up and she's humming along. I'm installing Windows at the moment.

Got my fingers crossed.Sounds like you have it whooped. How large of harddrive did you get? You might want to think about making another partition (around 25 GBs or so) somewhere down the road after getting up and running for a future install of Vista.

[orangeatheist]

It's just a 120. Somehow when I first loaded in the disk and told it to partition the drive, it partioned the entire drive! I didn't know, evidently, how to slice off about 30gig for Windows alone. Oh well...

Still installing.....Update to follow.

[orangeatheist]

Alright. Windows is up and running. I'm connected to the internet and am downloading the drivers for my video card from the manufacturer right now!

No, I'm not. I need to install all the latest updates for XP first!

But I think I'm home now! Whew!!

THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR ALL THEIR HELP!!!!!

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Alright. Windows is up and running. I'm connected to the internet and am downloading the drivers for my video card from the manufacturer right now!

:strong:

[watermock]

I have to admit, I'm impressed. I'm capable of driving 30 miles to Wally World and plug and play! I'm also adept of using up all my HD space with porn videos. :giggle:

I've been really happy with this 350 dollar E-machine off the clearance isle. It's amazing how this stuff has gone down in price yet leapfrogged in capability. Athlon 3+, 80 gigs had media slots, DVDRW. My first puter was 2 gigs and 200 mz cpu. And it was 1700 dollars.

Hopefully it will be a stable platform to express your poor opinions. Congrats!

[orangeatheist]

I I'm also adept of using up all my HD space with porn videos. :giggle:

What do you think trashed my old machine??


Congrats!

Thanks!!!

Off to find more porn now! :welcome:

[watermock]

Adultbouncer.com...enough porn to Jade you for life. It's like Jake and Elwood Blues Bros. driving thru the mall..."This place has everything!"