PDA

View Full Version : Who would you trade Jay Cutler for right now?


Pages : [1] 2

freak6
02-06-2007, 12:56 PM
Just curious how we feel about our QB with all hype around Peyton.

Answer honestly.

TheReverend
02-06-2007, 12:57 PM
No one.

Good, talented and dedicated kid. Going to be VERY exciting watching him grow, hopefully into a SB MVP and Hall of Famer.

Jesterhole
02-06-2007, 12:57 PM
Straight up? No one.

SureShot
02-06-2007, 12:58 PM
No one

BroncoBuff
02-06-2007, 12:59 PM
READ MY MIND! I was thinking of posting just this thread sometime soon (I wouldda included a poll, though, piker :oyvey:)




My answer? NO ONE PLAYER. Nobody.

However, (although the Bolts are a bad example), if a team offered the equivalent of, say, Phillip Rivers AND Shawn Merriman, then I would do it. ;D

TheReverend
02-06-2007, 01:00 PM
READ MY MIND! I was thinking of posting just this thread sometime soon (I wouldda included a poll, though, piker :oyvey:)


My answer? NO ONE PLAYER. Nobody.

However, (although the Bolts are a bad example), if a team offered the equivalent of, say, Phillip Rivers AND Shawn Merriman, then I would do it. ;D

Sit tight and buckle up. Bates is gonna blow your mind.

freak6
02-06-2007, 01:03 PM
The POLL IS UP!!!!!!!!

maven
02-06-2007, 01:04 PM
I wouldn't trade Jay for any player in the league. He's our future. Why destroy the fun & potential for someone else?

Archer81
02-06-2007, 01:05 PM
No one. Simply because a player excels in one system is no promise he excels in another.


:Broncos:

watermock
02-06-2007, 01:07 PM
Ron Mexico...we need a role model.

John Elway? I'm a complete Jay homer...I'm so so impressed with his arm, mobility, and mostly, his poise for a rookie...he can take the hits when the Right turnstile takes a game off and goes back in...which I didn't agree with. The only thing I worry about are concussions...I don't know if or how many he got at Vandy, I know he got tossed around like a rag doll. Hell, the kid is so tough he dislocated a finger, and snapped it back in while calling a play.

I'd take a pair of young LT1 and LT2's but that's a doublemint. Honestly, I can't thing of anyone...I think the upside is limitless...as long as he doesn't go Steve Young or Aikman with more concussions.

watermock
02-06-2007, 01:09 PM
Wow! The tribe has spoken! Does this mean Jake's days here are numbered?

Hercules Rockefeller
02-06-2007, 01:14 PM
Manning or Tomlinson

Play2win
02-06-2007, 01:17 PM
Just curious how we feel about our QB with all hype around Peyton.

Answer honestly.

Pay-Me-A-Ton has been receiving HYPE... I hadn't noticed... Honestly...

Play2win
02-06-2007, 01:20 PM
BTW- No man alive is worth trading JC for... One day he will be as good at his position as Champ Bailey is at his.

BroncoBuff
02-06-2007, 01:31 PM
Manning or Tomlinson

Really?

Coming from you, that's a major buzz-kill.

IHaveALight
02-06-2007, 01:35 PM
Carson Palmer should be up there.
I have to admit it would be hard to turn down a trade for him.

BroncoBuff
02-06-2007, 01:37 PM
The POLL IS UP!!!!!!!!

freak rocks! :thumbsup:

Hercules Rockefeller
02-06-2007, 01:40 PM
Really?

Coming from you, that's a major buzz-kill.

Love Cutler, and so happy they took him, but he's only got 5 starts. Yeah, he's got all the physical tools to be awesome and from everything that's been said about the guy he's willing to put in the time doing the off-field stuff too, but Manning and LT are dominant future HOFers in their prime. That's why I take them. Jay has the chance to an incredible player, but there is no guarantee he'll make it there, those two already are incredible players.

Arkansas Bronco
02-06-2007, 01:40 PM
Really?

Coming from you, that's a major buzz-kill.

Well considering they are the top 2 offensive players in the league it would be a given that this (if available) would happen. I havnt voted yet because I really dont know, there are alot of upgrades but right now I want to roll the dice and see how Jay pans out.

footstepsfrom#27
02-06-2007, 01:41 PM
We've officially moved beyond the Jake era.

Rohirrim
02-06-2007, 01:44 PM
Tom Brady, LT or Payaton. I mean, let's get real. Of course, then I would have to overlook Payaton's numerous character flaws. ;D

USMCBladerunner
02-06-2007, 01:53 PM
I wasn't taking into consideration palary cap implications, but picked Manning. I would also take Brady and perhaps Palmer. No running back (or any other position) is worth a franchise QB.

I also agree with the posters that watching Cutler develop will add a lot of enjoyment value to being a Bronco fan. It already has with me and the team didn't even make the playoffs. Even so, Manning and Brady will be amoung the top 10 (5?) QBs of all time barring injury or suddenly sucking, so trading a promising, but, relatively unknown 2nd year QB for either one is a pretty simple decision.

Would you trade Cutler for Elway at year 8 or 9? Probably. Same same to me.

BroncoBuff
02-06-2007, 01:54 PM
Herc, Ark and Ro .... you guys must've missed the Kool-Aid tray when the waitress brought it around...



Drink up! :spit: !Booya!

BroncoBuff
02-06-2007, 01:57 PM
Would you trade Cutler for Elway at year 8 or 9?

nope.

freak6
02-06-2007, 02:01 PM
Tom Brady, LT or Payaton. I mean, let's get real. Of course, then I would have to overlook Payaton's numerous character flaws. ;D

I wouldn't trade him for Peyton because of the age difference. Jay has a ton of miles left, and I think with Jay we should play in 2 Superbowls at least if he stays healthy. With Peyton we'd be better immediately than with Jay, but not that much I don't think. I have a ton of confidence in what Jay Cutler will be able to do next season compared to Peyton. Besides, it is in the playoffs that QB's earn thier salary, and I have seen enough of Jay Cutler to know that the kid is clutch. He drove us down and nearly got us into the playoffs after being rocked/concussed out of the game. I would say with Peyton we probably win 11-13 games next year, with Jay, 11 or 12. In the playoffs, I'll take Cutler and his future.

I wouldn't trade him for Brady because I don't think taking the proven commodity of Brady is worth mortgaging the future that we have with Jay Cutler. Jay is more mobile, has a better arm, and only lacks in inexperiance imo. Brady is one of the greatest, but I think Jay Cutler will be as well, and I'll stick with Cutler because Brady isn't that much better than Jay Cutler, in the ultimate team sport.

I wouldn't trade him for Tomlinson because we'd have to start Jake Plummer or some other bum, and it would only lead to 10 wins and a first round exit.

Garcia Bronco
02-06-2007, 02:07 PM
I would honestly say none, and it's not like all those players listed are bad, but the upside is just to great for our guy.

Broncomutt
02-06-2007, 02:09 PM
Shame you can't pick more than one. Merriman and Brady in a heartbeat. I'd say LT, but RBs have a shorter longevity than QBs, so no.

Other than that, rather have Cutler.

Bronco_Beerslug
02-06-2007, 02:13 PM
For Manning, and so would Shanahan.

TheDave
02-06-2007, 02:13 PM
Peyton Manning or Tom Brady for Cutler.... In a heartbeat. Anyone who says otherwise needs to have their orange colored glasses surgically removed

toad
02-06-2007, 02:17 PM
Honestly?

Brady or Manning.

Instant success at the QB level whereas, even though Cutler looks to be the real deal, there's no guarantee with him at this point. Manning should have 5-6 seasons left and Brady will likely have 7-8.

With Brady or Manning at QB this past year we're easily a deep playoff team (regardless of a waning defense).

Rock Chalk
02-06-2007, 02:20 PM
Vince Young.

Just as fun to watch develop if not more.

spdirty
02-06-2007, 02:25 PM
I'd only trade him for Herschell Walker type value.

freak6
02-06-2007, 02:25 PM
Honestly?

Brady or Manning.

Instant success at the QB level whereas, even though Cutler looks to be the real deal, there's no guarantee with him at this point. Manning should have 5-6 seasons left and Brady will likely have 7-8.

With Brady or Manning at QB this past year we're easily a deep playoff team (regardless of a waning defense).

I think I gave a pretty good argument why no to Brady and Manning. http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1472408&postcount=25

Look at Manning's playoffs, twice as many Ints as Tds. I could have hit Wayne in stride for that one TD he threw Sunday.

What is Manning better at than 2nd year Jay Cutler, or more importantly, how is Manning better in next years playoffs than Jay Cutler with a full season under his belt?

freak6
02-06-2007, 02:27 PM
Vince Young.

Just as fun to watch develop if not more.

John Elway > Randall Cunningham

TheDave
02-06-2007, 02:29 PM
What is Manning better at than 2nd year Jay Cutler, or more importantly, how is Manning better in next years playoffs than Jay Cutler with a season under his belt?

He is the best QB in the league and is currently being discussed as one of the best of all time... Jay Cutler doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath let alone the ridiculous comparison you are making. There may come a day when JC is mentioned as one of the greats but for now all he is, is a promising rookie.

freak6
02-06-2007, 02:32 PM
He is the best QB in the league and is currently being discussed as one of the best of all time... Jay Cutler doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath let alone the ridiculous comparison you are making. There may come a day when JC is mentioned as one of the greats but for now all he is, is a promising rookie.

What I asked was,"What is Manning better at than Jay Cutler?"

If Jay doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath, surely you can break down where Cutler with a full season under his belt, is so much worse than the Super Bowl winning QB that threw twice as many picks as Tds.

toad
02-06-2007, 02:34 PM
I think I gave a pretty good argument why no to Brady and Manning. http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1472408&postcount=25

Look at Manning's playoffs, twice as many Ints as Tds. I could have hit Wayne in stride for that one TD he threw Sunday.

What is Manning better at than 2nd year Jay Cutler, or more importantly, how is Manning better in next years playoffs than Jay Cutler with a full season under his belt?

Because, although he looked good for a rookie, we've only seen Cutler play 6 games.

Manning, on the other hand, is a 2-time NFL MVP and Super Bowl MVP who is on pace to become the most prolific passer in NFL history.

The age/milage factor is the only reasonable argument you could make for Cutler over Manning.

Pick Six
02-06-2007, 02:35 PM
For those of you who chose Peyton, remember that this year was an ANOMALY. Manning is a perennial playoff choker, and he is not worth it in Denver. Answering the question, I wouldn't trade Cutler for anyone at this point. He has shown great promise...

Rock Chalk
02-06-2007, 02:35 PM
John Elway > Randall Cunningham

Vince Young > Jay Cutler

Rock Chalk
02-06-2007, 02:40 PM
Let me qualify.

On a much worse team, Vince Young led his team to within 1 win from the playoffs.

Jay Cutler was given the reigns on a much better team already in playoff contention and lost 3 of the 5 games he got to start.

Right now, Id take Young over Cutler. In the future, Cutler may be better, but then, he may not. I dont know anymore than you people do.

TheDave
02-06-2007, 02:44 PM
If Jay doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath, surely you can break down where Cutler with a full season under his belt, is so much worse than the Super Bowl winning QB that threw twice as many picks as Tds.

Actually i can't, because Jay has not played a full season nor a single playoff game. On the other hand we have Manning who is a 2 time league MVP and recentely a Superbowl MVP.

watermock
02-06-2007, 02:49 PM
We want OUR guy, not someone elses...someone that can spend his entire career in Dever like the Duke. It's pretty evident that people are pleased so far, and he's only going to get better barring injury.

bronco militia
02-06-2007, 02:50 PM
Let me qualify.

On a much worse team, Vince Young led his team to within 1 win from the playoffs.

Jay Cutler was given the reigns on a much better team already in playoff contention and lost 3 of the 5 games he got to start.

Right now, Id take Young over Cutler. In the future, Cutler may be better, but then, he may not. I dont know anymore than you people do.

Uncle Rico went 2-3 in his 1st five starts......it's a push

freak6
02-06-2007, 02:50 PM
Let me qualify.

On a much worse team, Vince Young led his team to within 1 win from the playoffs.

Jay Cutler was given the reigns on a much better team already <b>in playoff contention </b>.


Strength of schedule.

I like Vince alot too, and once he learns to read defenses he's gonna be great. But he got some lucky breaks last season (NYG).

freak6
02-06-2007, 02:54 PM
If Jay Cutler shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Manning looking into our crystal ball for NEXT season, tell me how exactly Manning will be better than Jay with a full season under his beltActually i can't, lmao. Exactly. Jay has the arm, the IQ, the determination and competiveness, and he won't back down like a chicken on 3rd and 5 and audible to a running play either.

On the other hand we have Manning who is a recent a Superbowl MVP.

bwaa ha haa haaaa. Now you are really reaching Dave. I see your argument, but Jay Cutler with a full season under his belt in the playoffs vs Peyton, give me Jay Cutler.

spdirty
02-06-2007, 03:00 PM
Whoa, I just had a thought as to who I would trade Cutler for straight up.

Jack Elway's draft rights.

bronco militia
02-06-2007, 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by Bladerunner
Would you trade Cutler for Elway at year 8 or 9?


nope.



what the....?

footstepsfrom#27
02-06-2007, 03:04 PM
Five years from now Colt fans would make the Manning for Cutler trade in a heartbeat. Any trade for Manning now would basically remove 10 years from our window to compete for championships.

NaptownChief
02-06-2007, 03:16 PM
Straight up? No one.



So Jay Cutler is the most valuable player in the NFL....I keep learning every day.

Jens1893
02-06-2007, 03:34 PM
So Jay Cutler is the most valuable player in the NFL....I keep learning every day.

No, but he´s "our" baby

footstepsfrom#27
02-06-2007, 03:35 PM
So Jay Cutler is the most valuable player in the NFL....I keep learning every day.
You don't trade a 22 year old franchise QB. I'm sure you feel the same way about Brody Croyle...

Well maybe not.

watermock
02-06-2007, 03:37 PM
So Jay Cutler is the most valuable player in the NFL....I keep learning every day.

Noone said that dummy...I suppose we pick up Mannings 15 million dollar salary and half over career vs. a player with unlimited upside.

I would trade him for TrINT tho. Ha! Read it and weep.

maven
02-06-2007, 03:37 PM
We want OUR guy, not someone elses...someone that can spend his entire career in Dever like the Duke.

My thoughts exactly.

FantomForce
02-06-2007, 03:38 PM
Great poll! Try to dismantle our team isn't this one big factor as to why we didn't make the playoffs? Let's try to keep some harmony among the Bronco faithfull!>:'(

Sir Mawn
02-06-2007, 03:42 PM
Tom Brady.

Relatively young and a finished product. He's a proven winner with great intangibles. I'd DEFINITELY pull the trigger.

chanesaw
02-06-2007, 03:44 PM
Champ Bailey, but we already have him.

Drek
02-06-2007, 03:56 PM
In a vacuum, no one (which is what I voted). Jay's long term potential dovetails well with the current youth movement we have occuring on offense. We'd be better next year if we had Manning or Brady, but they'll be retiring when a lot of our most promising offensive players are hitting their primes. Then we're breaking in a new QB instead of competing. Basically with Manning or Brady we'd have about a five year window as a super power but then have the questionmark of rebuilding, with Jay we're a good team for the ntwo or three years that could develop into a super power and maintain that level of play for 5-8 years, and on the back end we'd still have a quality QB, if we replace his weapons on the fly well we could stay a great team for a very long time.

I don't consider Tomlinson feasable because then we'd be back to Jake as our QB. But if we consider all the potential moves we could then make I'd take Tomlinson no question, every day of the week. Drafting Mike Stanton or Troy Smith would give us a good QB fit for Shanahan's system (both mobile with good arms), and we could get one in the third round. Jake would obviously be much better with Tomlinson behind him and we'd transition to the young gun within a year. That, or trade up after Brady Quinn and hope he's worth the hype.

Totally not feasable though, and I'm fine with that. Jay's going to be a great QB, we're lucky to have him on our team.

Los Broncos
02-06-2007, 03:58 PM
LT or Dnabb.

watermock
02-06-2007, 04:04 PM
A better poll would of been of the Big 5...Young, Leinart, Bush, Williams and VD because your dealing with players that he's coming in with and went behind. It's also a crop with their whole future in front of them.

Bronco_Beerslug
02-06-2007, 04:33 PM
bwaa ha haa haaaa. Now you are really reaching Dave. I see your argument, but Jay Cutler with a full season under his belt in the playoffs vs Peyton, give me Jay Cutler.Just end this silly poll right now.
Would Shanahan trade Cutler for Manning? Absolutely!

TheDave
02-06-2007, 04:35 PM
Just end this silly poll right now.
Would Shanahan trade Cutler for Manning? Absolutely!

So would anyone else not currently sitting at the computer wearing a Cutler Jersey and foam horse head

watermock
02-06-2007, 04:43 PM
Yeah, let's spend 15 million per season on a historically poor playoff player half way thru his career.

Kaylore
02-06-2007, 04:48 PM
No one player on you're list.

I'd trade him for Tom Brady, a first round pick this year, and next year's first.

azbroncfan
02-06-2007, 05:00 PM
Brady, Manning or Palmer

freak6
02-06-2007, 05:08 PM
Would Shanahan trade Cutler for Manning? Absolutely!

I don't think he would for the same reasons I listed.

freak6
02-06-2007, 05:09 PM
Brady, Manning or Palmer

I left Palmer and McNabb out of the poll because trading our franchise QB for a guy coming off major ACL surgery, and another just one year removed seemed to far of a reach.

Bronco_Beerslug
02-06-2007, 05:10 PM
So would anyone else not currently sitting at the computer wearing a Cutler Jersey and foam horse head
I got both those on right now but I understand the difference between having a SB winning QB who will probably set all the QB records and a 24 year old kid that has a lot of potential.

I'll say this this though I'm plenty happy with our outlook at the QB position right now which I couldn't say at this time last year.

I don't think he would for the same reasons I listed.He'd sell you to a tribe of Gypsy's if he could get Manning straight across.

errand
02-06-2007, 05:13 PM
I'd trade him straight up for either Manning or Brady. Here's my logic...value for value.

We got decent LB's, so Urlacher wouldn't be worth it. Merriman is gonna have a few more suspensions before it's all over with in my opinion. Yeah we need a proven pass rusher, but we can get one that doesn't do steroids.

Our RB's can gain enough yards to make us effective offensively, and I would never consider a trade with a division rival so that would nix them. Despite Tomlinson or Johnson in our backfield being very tempting. Bush while very versatile, wouldn't be worth a potential franchise QB.....especially a young one.

Manning and Brady are only a 8-9 year vets and will play another 5-6 years barring injury (been very durable). Both have proven to be team leaders, championship-caliber QB's and display a positive locker room presence/influence.

Jay can be just as good as either Manning or Brady...but the key word is "could".

Cutler could be a hall of famer. Brady and Manning are hall of famers.

Cutler could become a Super Bowl winning QB. Manning and Brady are Super Bowl winning QB's.

Brady and Manning both have proven to me that they'd be stars regardless of what team they were on, and regardless of what system they ran. They are proven winners and while we all believe Jay could perform at a high level he has yetbto play as well as either Manning or Brady and his future is still not clear.

So in my opinion we'd be trading a "potential" franchise QB for a franchise QB. Jay might help us win a SB title in 2011, Brady or Manning would help us win one in '08 or '09.

Keep in mind if Jay continues to develop, we'll be set at the most important position on the team for another decade barring injury, but we know what Manning and Brady can do...we only believe that Jay can do likewise.

Taco John
02-06-2007, 05:17 PM
I'd trade Cutler for Ladainian Tomlinson, and the Chargers first round picks for the next two years.

Taco John
02-06-2007, 05:18 PM
...make it three years.

azbroncfan
02-06-2007, 05:21 PM
The only people that wouldn't trade him for Manning, Brady, or Palmer are on this message board. Guarantee Shanny would.

freak6
02-06-2007, 05:25 PM
Cutler could be a hall of famer. Brady and Manning are hall of famers.
What effect does that have on how they are going to play the next 3 years? They are HOFs for sure, but that is based on what has already happened. Peyton's MVPs and Brady's rings do nothing for us.
Cutler could win a few titles before his career is over. Manning and Brady have won titles already. And Brady and Manning <b>could</b> or could <b>not</b> ever win another.
Jay might help us win a SB title in <b>2011,</b>, Brady or Manning would help us win one in '08 or '09. lmao. Jay Cutler could help us win one next season, or 08, or 09 too. 2011. Give me a break. Cutler is not Elway, he gets the offense now, he has Shanny, this isn't Reeves/Elway with zero running game.

We know what Manning and Brady can do...we only believe that Jay can do likewise.

I know what Jay Cutler can do just was well as I know what Manning and Brady can do. They can all do the same thing, win football games with their great QB skills. Manning still hasn't put together a great playoff run yet everyone is making the case that now that he has a ring he is some great playoff QB.

baja
02-06-2007, 05:26 PM
Peyton Manning or Tom Brady for Cutler.... In a heartbeat. Anyone who says otherwise needs to have their orange colored glasses surgically removed

I disagree Dave. With Shannny Jay Cutler is odds on to have a magical 15 year career and as a fan I'll take that and it's my bet Shanahan would have the same take.

TheDave
02-06-2007, 05:36 PM
I disagree Dave. With Shannny Jay Cutler is odds on to have a magical 15 year career and as a fan I'll take that and it's my bet Shanahan would have the same take.

After that Darius Watts fiasco... you need to stop betting 8')

baja
02-06-2007, 05:47 PM
After that Darius Watts fiasco... you need to stop betting 8')

Wanta bet Watts is in the Broncos training camp this summer?

WABronco
02-06-2007, 05:51 PM
I'd trade him for two guys, off the top of my head. I'm not taking into account other factors in the trades, such as salary differences and potential replacements.

1. LT-rather self explanatory.

2. Carson Palmer-relatively young franchise QB with no glaring weaknesses. Trading potential (not necessarily as high as Palmer's ceiling is/was, either...not at this time) for the proven thing here. He still has a lot of mileage left, as opposed to Manning and McNabb (who I wouldn't trade Cutler for, regardless).

Bronco_Beerslug
02-06-2007, 05:54 PM
Wanta bet Watts is in the Broncos training camp this summer?Trying to make the team or looking to borrow some cash?

TheReverend
02-06-2007, 05:58 PM
Trying to make the team or looking to borrow some cash?

First post of yours that I've genuinely enjoyed... and I loved it.

errand
02-06-2007, 05:58 PM
What I asked was,"What is Manning better at than Jay Cutler?"

If Jay doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath, surely you can break down where Cutler with a full season under his belt, is so much worse than the Super Bowl winning QB that threw twice as many picks as Tds.

...man every damn time some teenager gets access to dad's cpu.

John Elway holds the Super Bowl record for most INTS thrown career.....guess Jay after a year under his belt will be just as good, huh?

How about this then, you keep your unscratched lotto ticket, while I take the $100,000 some clown just offered me for mine.

errand
02-06-2007, 06:02 PM
The age/milage factor is the only reasonable argument you could make for Cutler over Manning.

Manning still has 5-6 years left minimum. And he's rarely sacked, so the mileage argument actually wouldn't work. You'd have abetter argument saying he's immobile and could not run our bootleg passing game, but I think Manning being the student of the game he is, could do well in anyone's offense.

freak6
02-06-2007, 06:03 PM
...man every damn time some teenager gets access to dad's cpu.

John Elway holds the Super Bowl record for most INTS thrown career.....guess Jay after a year under his belt will be just as good, huh?

How about this then, you keep your unscratched lotto ticket, while I take the $100,000 some clown just offered me for mine.

So the odds of Jay Cutler winning a SuperBowl are 1 - 1,000,000?

Did I say anything about John Elway and his Superbowl nightmares? Did I say Cutler was just as good as Elway?

No and No. But I do think that Jay Cutler with Shanny and our personell CAN win a Superbowl just as much as Brady and Manning over the next 3 years.

And since Cutler can win alot more over the next 13+ years than either of them, it'd be stupid to trade Cutler for Manning or Brady.

errand
02-06-2007, 06:07 PM
Manning is a perennial playoff choker, and he is not worth it in Denver.

A choker? You young guys need to take a look at history. There was a time when Elway had the same label (amongst other team's fans) as a being a choker, especially in the biggest game of the year. He was labelled a spoiled brat, etc.

I guess your logic is the following, huh?

Lose early, you got off to a slow start.

Lose in the middle, you're just in a slump.

Lose at the end, you choked.

errand
02-06-2007, 06:13 PM
We want OUR guy, not someone elses...someone that can spend his entire career in Dever like the Duke. It's pretty evident that people are pleased so far, and he's only going to get better barring injury.

Really?

So hated that we traded for Elway in '83? Guess we should have stuck with Steve Deberg, or better yet young and unproven Mark Hermann, huh?

TheDave
02-06-2007, 06:14 PM
Wanta bet Watts is in the Broncos training camp this summer?

you seriously need help...

errand
02-06-2007, 06:19 PM
So would anyone else not currently sitting at the computer wearing a Cutler Jersey and foam horse head

Now, that was funny...I don't care who you are.

errand
02-06-2007, 06:22 PM
Yeah, let's spend 15 million per season on a historically poor playoff player half way thru his career.

...versus keeping a rook who hasn't won 50% of his starts, or even been to the playoffs at all?

freak6
02-06-2007, 07:01 PM
...versus keeping a rook who hasn't won 50% of his starts(5), or even been to the playoffs in his only season.

ha ha haaa

azbroncfan
02-06-2007, 07:09 PM
60% homers on this post. Come on, I love Cutler as the QBOTF but any fan with football knowledge would trade Cutler for one of the Big 3.

Bronco Billy
02-06-2007, 07:15 PM
I picked Manning for right now. However, it's awesome to see a potential star begin and end his career with the same team. Hopefully, Jay is everything we're hoping he'll be. Actually, can I take back my vote? :hitself:

freak6
02-06-2007, 07:20 PM
Manning has one ring in 9 seasons.

I think Cutler will get at least that in 9. So I'll take Cutler.

Besides, tell me what area Peyton Manning is a better QB than Jay Cutler going into next years playoffs?

azbroncfan
02-06-2007, 07:23 PM
Manning has one ring in 9 seasons.

I think Cutler will get at least that in 9. So I'll take Cutler.

Besides, tell me what area Peyton Manning is a better QB than Jay Cutler going into next years playoffs?


This might be one of the funniest post I have heard all year, comparing a unproven young QB to the SB champ and best QB of his time.

No1BroncoFan
02-06-2007, 07:35 PM
Would you trade Cutler for Elway at year 8 or 9?
No brainer.

nope.
Seriously, pass some of that over here. Elway in his prime with 7-8 years left and the coach best suited to Elway's strengths for Cutler? Again, no brainer.

Ben

boltaneer
02-06-2007, 07:53 PM
This was definitely a very entertaining read!

Northman
02-06-2007, 07:54 PM
Trade? Lets just release him. He's a bum. Keep Plummer instead.

dbroncos31
02-06-2007, 07:56 PM
Seriously, how can anyone say that they wouldn't trade the #3 QB of last year's draft for one of the best QBs in NFL history who is in his prime and finally has proven that he can win the big game? I know we love Cutler, but get real. Cutler is, as errand pointed out, and unscratched Lotto ticket, with a chance of winning the jackpot. However, Peyton is a guaranteed payout. I don't think he has ever missed a start, and he is the greatest QB in the league right now and has been for the past few years. This is a guy with the 2nd highest career QB rating of all time we're talking about, compared to a rookie who may or may not be good, even. For all we know, Cutler will bomb this season, and then be out of the league in 3 years. On the other hand, he could, as freak is so sure, win multiple Super Bowls the next few seasons. With Peyton Manning we will be the best team in the NFL, bar nonoe. We could conceivably win Super Bowls for the next 5-6 years. Unfortunately, we will never get a chance to make this trade.

Honestly, I think that you would be hard=pressed to find anyone in football with decision making abilities who would not trade Cutler for Manning, or Brady for that matter. Take your orange colored glasses off and think about this for a second.

Ratboy
02-06-2007, 08:09 PM
How many QB's can thrown 68 yards down the field on target? Cutler is special.

yavoon
02-06-2007, 08:19 PM
How many QB's can thrown 68 yards down the field on target? Cutler is special.

grossman.

epicSocialism4tw
02-06-2007, 08:25 PM
Wow.

You guys wouldnt trade Cutler for Manning or Brady?

I'm sure you'll be the same people calling for his head in two years if he doesnt come out of Elways shadow.

Northman
02-06-2007, 08:36 PM
Wow.

You guys wouldnt trade Cutler for Manning or Brady?

I'm sure you'll be the same people calling for his head in two years if he doesnt come out of Elways shadow.


As opposed to giving up on him now? Ha!

OrangeShadow
02-06-2007, 10:09 PM
one player for the other?
honestly no one.

freak6
02-07-2007, 01:15 AM
Seriously, how can anyone say that they wouldn't trade the #3 QB of last year's draft for one of the best QBs in NFL history who is in his prime and finally has proven that he can win the big game?

Peyton won the Superbowl,

or did his defense?

He did throw twice as many picks as touchdowns!

I wouldn't trade him because I believe that we have just a good a shot of winning the same amount of Superbowls over the next 5 years with Cutler as we would with Peyton.

Remember, Peyton's defense carried that team to the Superbowl win.

His only TD came on a terribly blown coverage I could have turned into 6 easy points.

ukbroncosfan
02-07-2007, 10:44 AM
IMHO a better poll would have been which young QB would you trade Jay Cutler for right now?

I wouldn't trade Jay Cutler for Eli Manning, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Alex Smith, Vince Young or Matt Leinart?

Any contendng sports franchise would trade their stud minor league prospect for an MVP in his prime if money wasn't a issue. The MVP gives them the best chance to win now.

jonny1
02-07-2007, 11:01 AM
Well, I voted no one, because the premise of the poll is flawed. Why not just put up "Who do you want on your team, without any restrictions?" Then everybody would take Manning or Brady, Tomlinson, Gates, Harrison, Moss, whoever.

Heck, I'd like Monica Belluci sleeping next to me every night, but that's not going to happen either.

So the question should be, as ukbroncosfan pointed out, who would you trade for that would be realistic, fair value for fair value.

So my answer is no one, because I want the excitement of watching this young man grow and develop, and live through the ups and downs, just I did with #7.

And hopefully, have the same high points a few times as we did with Elway.

fontaine
02-07-2007, 01:10 PM
IMHO a better poll would have been which young QB would you trade Jay Cutler for right now?

I wouldn't trade Jay Cutler for Eli Manning, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Alex Smith, Vince Young or Matt Leinart?


I'd take the following QBs over Cutler:

Rivers, PManning, Brees, Roeth, Palmer, Brady and probably a few others.

Cutler's just a rookie with a nice arm, and a whole lot of hype. The other guys have actually gotten it done in this leage.

bronco militia
02-07-2007, 01:13 PM
I'd take the following QBs over Cutler:

Rivers, PManning, Brees, Roeth, Palmer, Brady and probably a few others.

Cutler's just a rookie with a nice arm, and a whole lot of hype. The other guys have actually gotten it done in this leage.

drew brees and rivers? lol

Taco John
02-07-2007, 01:17 PM
I'm on board for the Jay Cutler experience, good, bad, or whatever. I don't want Peyton Manning or Tom Brady in Denver. I want to go through ups and downs with our own guy. Maybe in three years, it turns out that he's the next coming of Jake Plummer and the Broncos decide it's time to get rid of him. Oh well.

At this moment in time, I believe in the kid. I believe in his arm. I believe in his confidence. I believe in his ability to handle the pressure. I think he's the right fit at the right time in Denver, and I wouldn't want to trade him for either Manning or Brady.

freak6
02-07-2007, 01:45 PM
I'd take the following QBs over Cutler:

Rivers, PManning, Brees, Roeth, Palmer, Brady and probably a few others.

Cutler's just a rookie with a nice arm, and a whole lot of hype. The other guys have actually gotten it done in this leage.

You'd take Philip Rivers over Jay Cutler...

Ok, that is insane on so many levels but then to say because he has got it done in this league? Right.

Brees? When has he ever done anything of significance besides this last season going 11-5 and losing in the NFC Championship?

Palmer, same thing, injured knee, stiff, fumbles like crazy, etc...

Brady and Manning I understand the argument yet still disagree because everyone that says they would make the move for those two HOF QBs has yet to list how exactly those QBs are upgrades over Jay Cutler come next December or in the future, + Jay Cutler is younger, stronger, and faster than either of them.

USMCBladerunner
02-07-2007, 01:47 PM
This thread has really brought out some craptastic homerism in folks. I swear some of you azz clowns would probably not trade Brandon Marshall for Anquan Boldin either. Or Tony Scheffler for Antonio Gates.

I do understand and agree with the sentiment that he is "our" guy, particularly given the paucity of high draft picks for the Broncos and the amount of parlaying it took to get him. And I would get more geeked up before games with Cutler playing than I had in a decade. So from a fan's viewpoint, I get the no trade stance, but from a GM's perspective this would be a no-brainer, pull the trigger as fast as you can, type of decision (salary cap considerations not withstanding).

Those who are seriously trying to categorize Manning's or Brady's status as something only marginally more valid than Cutler's are deluded. Straight up deluded.

bronco militia
02-07-2007, 01:51 PM
This thread has really brought out some craptastic homerism in folks. I swear some of you azz clowns would probably not trade Brandon Marshall for Anquan Boldin either. Or Tony Scheffler for Antonio Gates.



bwahahaha...post of the century

freak6
02-07-2007, 01:52 PM
Those who are seriously trying to categorize Manning's or Brady's status as something only marginally more valid than Cutler's are deluded. Straight up deluded.

I think that your evaluation of the Cutler's skills have dilluted over the last 2 months following Peyton's Superbowl run in which he threw twice as many interceptions as touchdowns.

Brady and Manning are HOFs, but how exactly do they upgrade the QB position especially considering Jay Cutler is going to get all the starters reps this summer, in the pre-season, and in the regular season. All indications based upon his skill set, his #'s, his attitude, composure, poise, confidence, and competitiveness allude to a future superstar, that I wouldn't trade for a veteran superstar right now because of the difference in years, and potential for greatness that he has.

Oops, forgot to mention he has a better physical skills than either of those two in all areas.

bendog
02-07-2007, 02:01 PM
Bowlen's a jerk for not pushing Grads for the HOF, but thank God Charlie "meatpacker" Monfort doesn't run the broncos.

Dedhed
02-07-2007, 02:11 PM
I'd take the following QBs over Cutler:

Rivers, PManning, Brees, Roeth, Palmer, Brady and probably a few others.

Cutler's just a rookie with a nice arm, and a whole lot of hype. The other guys have actually gotten it done in this leage.

Rivers, Brees, Palmer, and a few others have gotten it done? How many career playoff wins between them? Please, do, name the few others!

USMCBladerunner
02-07-2007, 02:17 PM
I think that your evaluation of the Cutler's skills have dilluted over the last 2 months following Peyton's Superbowl run in which he threw twice as many interceptions as touchdowns.

Brady and Manning are HOFs, but how exactly do they upgrade the QB position especially considering Jay Cutler is going to get all the starters reps this summer, in the pre-season, and in the regular season. All indications based upon his skill set, his #'s, his attitude, composure, poise, confidence, and competitiveness allude to a future superstar, that I wouldn't trade for a veteran superstar right now because of the difference in years, and potential for greatness that he has.

I don't really have the time to begin a proper dialog on this right now, so if I drop off, it's cause duty called...

But...the Super Bowl has nothing to do with my viewpoint. If San Diego had won, I still would not trade for Philip Rivers. I would not trade Cutler for Ben Roethlisberger, or Hasselbeck, or anyone other than Manning and Brady really (Palmer I would consider). But that is because all of those QBs do only offer either marginally more certainty than Cutler in terms of success in the future.

Manning and Brady however, are each either at or just beyond the midpoint of their careers. If they play to 15 years as most good/great QBs do barring injury. They will be the #1 and #3 QBs OF ALL TIME in nearly every statistical category. Couple that with the established fact that they have won 4 Super Bowls between them, and there is little to detract from their value.

To argue against the trade, one would have to take the position that Cutler will outperform, over the next 6-8 seasons, the probable #1 or #3 most productive QBs in the history of the game. The beauty of this thread, and the reason people have lost their minds over it, is that this could actually happen. Cutler is pretty amazing. His upside appears limitless. But the reality is that it probably won't happen. Not because Culter won't be good, but because we are talking about two of the greatest QBs ever. Like it or not, Manning and Brady already are being likened to and will cement their place with Montana, and Marino, and Unitas, and Aikman, and (gasp) Elway. There isn't much room for improvement when you are talking about turning down a Manning or Brady.

As for the the attributes you listed, I agree that Culter looks promising and was even performing well in his few starts. But I shouldn't have to tell you how Manning and Brady would be an upgrade. Particularly Manning. He quarterbacks at a level of efficiency that makes me want to puke. If you really want a list though, Manning is better than Cutler at: accuracy, patience, check-offs, defensive recognition and adjustment, the two-minute drill, the one-minute drill, the play action. And the things he isn't better than Cutler at are not really weak, just not freakish ala JC.

Maybe Manning's (below?) average performance this post-season has convinced you that he isn't really that great, but the body of work that is his career is on pace to be the greatest ever, and there have been a lot of QBs that, up to what we have seen so far, are a damn sight better than Jay Cutler.

freak6
02-07-2007, 02:46 PM
If you really want a list though, Manning is better than Cutler at: accuracy, patience, check-offs, defensive recognition and adjustment, the two-minute drill, the one-minute drill, the play action. And the things he isn't better than Cutler at are not really weak, just not freakish ala JC.

Maybe Manning's (below?) average performance this post-season has convinced you that he isn't really that great.

Manning is better in those areas as of the end of this season, but by the end of NEXT season going into next years playoffs, Cutler will have closed the gap with Manning in those areas, not completely by any means, but enough. Add to that his superior atheticism, and Peyton's less than <b>good </b>playoff history, I'll still take Jay Cutler for the next <u>12</u> years over Manning for the next <i>6</i>.

Look at Cutler's numbers in those 5 games. Not to shabby. Those 2 pick 6s were TERRIBLE throws, one's he won't make next season. Take those out, and the kid will have a QB rating just as high as Brady and Mannings just going off his rookie #s projected into next season.

USMCBladerunner
02-07-2007, 05:20 PM
Manning is better in those areas as of the end of this season, but by the end of NEXT season going into next years playoffs, Cutler will have closed the gap with Manning in those areas, not completely by any means, but enough. Add to that his superior atheticism, and Peyton's less than <b>good </b>playoff history, I'll still take Jay Cutler for the next <u>12</u> years over Manning for the next <i>6</i>.

Look at Cutler's numbers in those 5 games. Not to shabby. Those 2 pick 6s were TERRIBLE throws, one's he won't make next season. Take those out, and the kid will have a QB rating just as high as Brady and Mannings just going off his rookie #s projected into next season.

I concede that the 12 years of value vs the 6 years from Brady or Manning argument has merit. The problem I have is that is presumes that the quality of play during those 12 years will be at a sufficiently high level to decline a known proven level of performance that will be considered legendary. I don't think your argument that Cutler will close the gap against Manning is a very strong one. Will he play better than this year? Probably, but if you think that we've seen the last of terrible pick sixes from Jay Cutler you are sadly mistaken. The same is true for Manning and Brady, but they have demonstrated a consistently superb level of play that indicates that those mistakes will be minimal. Claiming the same for Cutler is just wishful thinking.

freak6
02-07-2007, 05:39 PM
But if you think that we've seen the last of terrible pick sixes from Jay Cutler you are sadly mistaken. The same is true for Manning and Brady, but they have demonstrated a consistently superb level of play that indicates that those mistakes will be minimal. Claiming the same for Cutler is just wishful thinking.

You really think he's gonna throw another one from his ass like vs the Seahawks?

Not going to happen man.

The one vs 9ers he was still woozy from the hit. He'll throw pick 6s, but not like those. I expect a QB rating of 95+ next year, 3500 yards, 25+ TDs, and less than 15 ints.

His 88 rating last year was the tip of the iceberg.

Watch this site explode with bandwagon fans over the course of the next year as Cutler's Superstar status explodes.

rbackfactory80
02-07-2007, 05:46 PM
Cutler is the best player to ever play in the NFL. There is not one person all time that I would trade him for.

USMCBladerunner
02-07-2007, 05:56 PM
You really think he's gonna throw another one from his ass like vs the Seahawks?

Not going to happen man.

The one vs 9ers he was still woozy from the hit. He'll throw pick 6s, but not like those. I expect a QB rating of 95+ next year, 3500 yards, 25+ TDs, and less than 15 ints.

His 88 rating last year was the tip of the iceberg.

Watch this site explode with bandwagon fans over the course of the next year as Cutler's Superstar status explodes.

I hope you are right, but to sit here and declare it so before it happens is nothing more than a carnie trick. You don't know this and it is certainly a lower percentage play than playing with a Manning or Brady.

USMCBladerunner
02-07-2007, 05:59 PM
Cutler is the best player to ever play in the NFL. There is not one person all time that I would trade him for.

Fecitious or not, this is tantamount to the rubbish folks are spewing around here. Well done.

freak6
02-07-2007, 06:10 PM
I hope you are right, but to sit here and declare it so before it happens is nothing more than a carnie trick. You don't know this and it is certainly a lower percentage play than playing with a Manning or Brady.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/409102

Take these stats, and do the math over 16 games.

30 Touchdowns - would have been good for <b>2nd in the NFL</b> this season

If you take away the int the threw vs the Seahawks and give him a slightly higher completion % of about 62% the kid is easily a top 5 QB in the NFL.

He was a deer in the headlights those first couple games, but the kid really showed his true self as he got more experiance. We have no idea how he is going to play next year, but imo he's going to be much better with the experiance to go along with his physical tools. To deny that is to deny reality.

No way I trade him for Peyton Manning who just posted a QB rating of 70 on his way to "earning" the Superbowl MVP...bwaa haa haaaa

BTW - our rookie had a higher qb rating than Brady last season. Not that it means a ton, but it shows how efficient he was despite the stupid throw from his ass and the one vs the Niners.

USMCBladerunner
02-07-2007, 06:33 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/409102

Take these stats, and do the math over 16 games.

30 Touchdowns - would have been good for <b>2nd in the NFL</b> this season

If you take away the int the threw vs the Seahawks and give him a slightly higher completion % of about 62% the kid is easily a top 5 QB in the NFL.

He was a deer in the headlights those first couple games, but the kid really showed his true self as he got more experiance. We have no idea how he is going to play next year, but imo he's going to be much better with the experiance to go along with his physical tools. To deny that is to deny reality.

No way I trade him for Peyton Manning who just posted a QB rating of 70 on his way to "earning" the Superbowl MVP...bwaa haa haaaa

BTW - our rookie had a higher qb rating than Brady last season. Not that it means a ton, but it shows how efficient he was despite the stupid throw from his ass and the one vs the Niners.

I understand your perspective and I share your enthusiasm, but the sample size is awfully small. I am not in denial that Cutler is going to be something special...I truly think he is. I just am realistic enough to know that it is unlikely that he will be better than Manning or Brady over the long run. I hope to hell he is though.

I am clearly in the minority here, and I do understand your point of view, I just think it is a hopeful case of counting chickens before they hatch and then pretending to have that bird in hand instead of...never mind...I'm making myself ill...

For what it's worth, I think the "Nobody" answer is a hell of a lot more logical than "LT."

azbroncfan
02-07-2007, 07:25 PM
This thread has really brought out some craptastic homerism in folks. I swear some of you azz clowns would probably not trade Brandon Marshall for Anquan Boldin either. Or Tony Scheffler for Antonio Gates.

I do understand and agree with the sentiment that he is "our" guy, particularly given the paucity of high draft picks for the Broncos and the amount of parlaying it took to get him. And I would get more geeked up before games with Cutler playing than I had in a decade. So from a fan's viewpoint, I get the no trade stance, but from a GM's perspective this would be a no-brainer, pull the trigger as fast as you can, type of decision (salary cap considerations not withstanding).

Those who are seriously trying to categorize Manning's or Brady's status as something only marginally more valid than Cutler's are deluded. Straight up deluded.


Understatement of the year. It's the same people who argue that Brady is better than Manning due to the rings but argue Elway is better than Montana.

I agree I would take Elway and I would take Manning over Brady, but if you use one arguement you need to stick with it.

azbroncfan
02-07-2007, 07:30 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/409102

Take these stats, and do the math over 16 games.

30 Touchdowns - would have been good for <b>2nd in the NFL</b> this season

If you take away the int the threw vs the Seahawks and give him a slightly higher completion % of about 62% the kid is easily a top 5 QB in the NFL.

He was a deer in the headlights those first couple games, but the kid really showed his true self as he got more experiance. We have no idea how he is going to play next year, but imo he's going to be much better with the experiance to go along with his physical tools. To deny that is to deny reality.

No way I trade him for Peyton Manning who just posted a QB rating of 70 on his way to "earning" the Superbowl MVP...bwaa haa haaaa

BTW - our rookie had a higher qb rating than Brady last season. Not that it means a ton, but it shows how efficient he was despite the stupid throw from his ass and the one vs the Niners.

Man you have some of the most homeristic posts I have read. Your arguement could have been used for Jeff George or Rick Mirer. Basically Cutler is still a unknown and has a hell of a long way to go to even be mentioned with the big three. I hope you are right though.

NYBronco
02-07-2007, 07:36 PM
I wouldn't trade Jay for anybody.

But I have no issues trading or releasing others to build a 30 point per game offensive machine around him. The kid has mucho talent.

freak6
02-07-2007, 08:01 PM
Man you have some of the most homeristic posts I have read. Your arguement could have been used for Jeff George or Rick Mirer. I hope you are right though.

I usually am. When it comes to forcasting a players future, I think I can go head to head with any fantasy guru or nfl "expert" there is.

It's not homeristic to take #s, extrapolate them over 16 games, adjust for obvious areas that will be improved, and forecast that our QB will probably be in the top 5 QBs in the entire league next year.

It's not homeristic to look at Peyton's playoff #'s from his Superbowl "MVP" run, and see that our QB next year should be able to do at least that, probably much better.

It's not homeristic to say our QB has maybe the best combination of physical and mental abilities in the game. Jay just needs to learn.

+ Dude is downright cocky about it. Cracks me up. All he lacks is the experiance, which once gained over the course of next season is gonna lead to him being if not the best, a top 5 QB in the NFL for years to come.

boltaneer
02-08-2007, 02:10 AM
If you want to extrapolate stats over the entire season, Damon Huard would be the real hot commodity...

azbroncfan
02-08-2007, 08:54 AM
If you want to extrapolate stats over the entire season, Damon Huard would be the real hot commodity...

Don't say that, his explainations sound sooo good no need to ruin it. :thumbsup:

fontaine
02-08-2007, 09:21 AM
You'd take Philip Rivers over Jay Cutler...

Ok, that is insane on so many levels but then to say because he has got it done in this league? Right.


Rivers helped his team to a tremendous record this season. The dude is a legit QB. I know he's only had one season but that it was a Pro Bowl one. If that's his FIRST full season in the NFL, can you imagine what he's going to be like once he's fully comfortable with the NFL?

Brees? When has he ever done anything of significance besides this last season going 11-5 and losing in the NFC Championship?

Who's talking about significance. I'm looking at QB performance. Drew Brees posted one of finest individual first seasons with a new team in NFL history last year. I challenge you to refute that.

Palmer, same thing, injured knee, stiff, fumbles like crazy, etc...

And even with an injured knee, etc he had a two to one Int ratio with 28 TDs, 4000 yards, and over 62% completion! Some QB would give their left nut to have a season like that. He's one of the main reasons why the Bengals have turned around their franchise from cellar dwellers to playoff contenders.

Brady and Manning I understand the argument yet still disagree because everyone that says they would make the move for those two HOF QBs has yet to list how exactly those QBs are upgrades over Jay Cutler come next December or in the future, + Jay Cutler is younger, stronger, and faster than either of them.

Ha! :clown:

Akili Smith, Losman, Vick, Quincy Carter, Ryan Leaf, are all stronger/faster than Brady/Manning. You convinced me. I could never trade Akili Smith for Brady or Manning!

Yeah Jay has great potential but I'd take raw production and performance over potential any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

I hope and believe Jay will pan out. But please, spare me the homerism based on Jay's bench press and 40 times.

fontaine
02-08-2007, 09:25 AM
Rivers, Brees, Palmer, and a few others have gotten it done? How many career playoff wins between them? Please, do, name the few others!

Wins are about a team, not just the QB. I'm talking about getting it done as in these QBs have proved that they are not busts and are performing/producing in the NFL. They have successfully transitioned to the NFL and put up great season/s.

That's all we can expect Cutler to do as well. But the reality is, so far he may just as easily turn out to be a bust.

I like the kid and genuinely hope he does well. But I will always choose my Broncos over any individual player.

If that means trading Cutler for a guaranteed stud QB like Rivers/Palmer then hell yes I would make that trade in a heartbeat, and load up 2007 for a super bowl run rather than hoping Cutler isn't a bust and giving him one/two years to get settled in this leage.

I know it may sound cold and ruthless, but any one player on this team means nothing to me compared to the success of this franchise.

I would trade a 1000 Jay Cutlers if it meant one superbowl.

Would you?

crazyhorse
02-08-2007, 09:36 AM
Great thread!!!

Though there are several people that have the ability to see past the hype and vote for a (more than reasonable) replacement for Cutler, it's somewhat satisfying to know how delusional the rest of you are.

Most here wouldn't trade him for some of the most prolific players in history. Winners.

While Cutler has never done anything but lose. LOL

Ratboy
02-08-2007, 09:45 AM
Akili Smith, Losman, Vick, Quincy Carter, Ryan Leaf, are all stronger/faster than Brady/Manning. You convinced me. I could never trade Akili Smith for Brady or Manning!

Yeah Jay has great potential but I'd take raw production and performance over potential any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

I hope and believe Jay will pan out. But please, spare me the homerism based on Jay's bench press and 40 times.

I don't believe Losman belongs in that lists of busts.

62% Comp
3000 Passing yards
19 TD
14 INT
85% rating

Those are some pretty good stats for being on a Bills team that has been horrible

fontaine
02-08-2007, 09:59 AM
I don't believe Losman belongs in that lists of busts.

62% Comp
3000 Passing yards
19 TD
14 INT
85% rating

Those are some pretty good stats for being on a Bills team that has been horrible

Point taken. He has started to improve, but I didn't say he was a bust. Just a guy who's speed/strength (long ball) don't necessarily translate to on the field greateness.

Circle Orange
02-08-2007, 10:02 AM
Funny, Pay-a-ton got the MVP to get gloss for his national 'pity party of validation'. Funny, for a great qb he had to 'manage' the game to win it. But wait! Great qbs are supposed to hamfist that sucker into a win, right?

BroncoBuff
02-08-2007, 10:48 AM
you seriously need help...

Baja has a point .... Shanny often lets guys come back to try again. See Willie Middlebrooks.

Circle Orange
02-08-2007, 11:19 AM
I'd say either Craig Krenzel or Jeff Garcia. How about Dante Culpepper, glass knee and all? :crazy:

But it could be worse. If Cutler were in Chicago it would already be decided he's a failure and has to go. But only after we read 1,000,000,000 juvenile articles on the topic.

TheReverend
02-08-2007, 12:21 PM
I usually am. When it comes to forcasting a players future, I think I can go head to head with any fantasy guru or nfl "expert" there is.

It's not homeristic to take #s, extrapolate them over 16 games, adjust for obvious areas that will be improved, and forecast that our QB will probably be in the top 5 QBs in the entire league next year.

It's not homeristic to look at Peyton's playoff #'s from his Superbowl "MVP" run, and see that our QB next year should be able to do at least that, probably much better.

It's not homeristic to say our QB has maybe the best combination of physical and mental abilities in the game. Jay just needs to learn.

+ Dude is downright cocky about it. Cracks me up. All he lacks is the experiance, which once gained over the course of next season is gonna lead to him being if not the best, a top 5 QB in the NFL for years to come.

And Larry Johnson broke the NFL record with 3000 yards rushing last year too.

PS. There's no way homeristic is a word...

freak6
02-08-2007, 12:27 PM
I think those 5 games were a decent sample to look at. Adjust for obvious areas that will be improved, and the finished product is going to be awesome.

88 QB rating for a rookie, what other rookie was even close to that?

On pace for 30 TDs over 16 games, 2nd in the NFL.

Fontaine, Cutler is a guaranteed stud.

The AFC is loaded with QBs, so a Pro Bowl could be tough.

But I'll take any bets that if Cutler stays healthy he throws over 25 TDs next year, gets us into the playoffs, and has a top 5 QB rating.

I'll bet my avatar for life.

TheReverend
02-08-2007, 12:27 PM
Great thread!!!

Though there are several people that have the ability to see past the hype and vote for a (more than reasonable) replacement for Cutler, it's somewhat satisfying to know how delusional the rest of you are.

Most here wouldn't trade him for some of the most prolific players in history. Winners.

While Cutler has never done anything but lose. LOL

Because Cutler's ours and the raw emotion that comes with it, win or lose, is ours too. For me, one of the most exciting times of the season is free agency, the lifting of the trade deadline and the draft... it's like christmas but right before you can play with your toys... so much potential. Same thing with Cutler. And so, even if he doesn't have a Manning/Brady career, he's still ours.

freak6
02-08-2007, 12:56 PM
More Cutler propaganda from Headquarters.

http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mason/2007/02/07/player-spotlight-jay-cutler/

An offense that had accounted for 16.9 points per game in the season’s first 11 games averaged 23.4 in the last five. The offense’s touchdown output increased from 1.8 per game to 2.4 and its passing touchdown production nearly doubled from 1.0 to 1.8 per game.

FINAL ANALYSIS: Became the first rookie in NFL history with multiple touchdown passes in each of his first four games … Had the fifth-highest passer rating of quarterbacks who had at least 125 passes (25.0 per game) from Dec. 1 onward; his 88.5 rating was behind only Indianapolis’ Peyton Manning (102.6), St. Louis’ Marc Bulger (93.4), New Orleans’ Drew Brees (91.8) and New England’s Tom Brady (90.1) … Cutler’s nine touchdown passes in December were third in the league behind Bulger and Manning, who each fired 10; his touchdown percentage (6.6 percent) was second in the league among quarterbacks to start all five games in December, behind only Atlanta’s Michael Vick … His completion percentage (59.1), touchdown percentage and passer rating rank first all-time among Broncos rookies; his yardage per attempt places him second in team rookie annals.

fontaine
02-08-2007, 01:15 PM
I think those 5 games were a decent sample to look at. Adjust for obvious areas that will be improved, and the finished product is going to be awesome.

88 QB rating for a rookie, what other rookie was even close to that?

On pace for 30 TDs over 16 games, 2nd in the NFL.

Fontaine, Cutler is a guaranteed stud.

The AFC is loaded with QBs, so a Pro Bowl could be tough.

But I'll take any bets that if Cutler stays healthy he throws over 25 TDs next year, gets us into the playoffs, and has a top 5 QB rating.

I'll bet my avatar for life.

Let me get this straight.

You call me insane for taking Rivers/Palmer over Cutler (right now), then you guarantee Cutler is a stud, and in the same breath offer up some excuse that Cutler might not be a Pro Bowl QB in the AFC because it's loaded with QBs?

Guess who those pro-bowl QBs are? Palmer/Rivers who have three probowls between them the past two years.

So you're saying Cutler can't beat out these guys for a pro-bowl yet somehow I'm the one who's insane for choosing them over Jay who's far more of an unkown.

Hilarious!

Thanks for playing. Game Over.

freak6
02-08-2007, 01:27 PM
You call me insane for taking Rivers/Palmer over Cutler (right now), then you guarantee Cutler is a stud, and in the same breath offer up some excuse that Cutler might not be a Pro Bowl QB in the AFC because it's loaded with QBs?

So you're saying Cutler can't beat out these guys for a pro-bowl yet somehow I'm the one who's insane for choosing them over Jay who's far more of an unkown.



No, I'm saying that the Pro Bowl is a joke and no measure of how good a QB is, especially since Tony Romo made it from the NFC. Cutler doesn't have the fan votes that go to Manning, Brady, or Palmer.

And trading Cutler for Rivers is insane. Philip Rivers has suspect mechanics as it is, his last 4 games he was terrible, and he can't fire a fastball into close quarters, he has to lead recievers to open spots because he doesn't have a cannon.

You are probably the only one on this board that would make that trade, <b>besides every Charger fan!!! lmfao!!!</b>

I'm saying Cutler will have a top 5 QB rating in the entire league next year, and will be more than worthy of a stupid Pro Bowl, but with fan votes you never know because of how loaded the AFC is at the position.

I'll bet my avatar for life that Cutler has a top 5 QB rating next year.

You can either take the bet, or walk away.

Rashomon
02-08-2007, 01:30 PM
I think the only legitimate discussion should be for a QB trade. No other position is nearly as valuable. For argument purposes, I guess you could disregard cap implications.
Peter King recently listed his Top 15 starting QB's, which serves as a good starting point.
1. Peyton Manning. 2. Tom Brady. 3. Drew Brees. 4. Carson Palmer. 5. Marc Bulger. 6. Matt Hasselbeck. 7. Philip Rivers. 8. Donovan McNabb. 9. Tony Romo. 10. Brett Favre. 11. Ben Roethlisberger. 12. Matt Leinart. 13. Vince Young. 14. Chad Pennington. 15. Jay Cutler.

From that list, I think Rivers, Romo, Leinart and Young fall into the unproven category. They may turn out to be better, but it is difficult to say with any certainty. Pass on those.
McNabb, Pennington, and Favre are too injury prone, or on the downside of their careers. Pass.
Manning, Brady and Palmer, I think you make those trades in a heartbeat. They have proven to be elite QB's, and should have 5+ years of prime productivity left. Anyone that thinks otherwise is not being objective.

That leaves Brees, Bulger, Hasselbeck and Ben R. to consider. I would probably pass on them. However, if you asked fans of those teams, they would likely vote overwhelmingly to keep their own QB.

freak6
02-08-2007, 01:36 PM
How is Carson Palmer better than Jay Cutler?

He's a stiff that fumbles everytime he's hit. Cutler has a better arm than him, is younger, and is only going to get better.

Peter King is a moron btw.

boltaneer
02-08-2007, 01:49 PM
How is Carson Palmer better than Jay Cutler?

He's a stiff that fumbles everytime he's hit. Cutler has a better arm than him, is younger, and is only going to get better.

Peter King is a moron btw.

I hope this was sarcasm...

Carson Palmer has already proven himself as one of the top quarterbacks in the league.

Might also want to watch out on the fumbling comments: Cutler fumbled eight times in five games. Palmer fumbled fifteen times in sixteen.

freak6
02-08-2007, 02:03 PM
I hope this was sarcasm...

Carson Palmer has already proven himself as one of the top quarterbacks in the league.

Might also want to watch out on the fumbling comments: Cutler fumbled eight times in five games. Palmer fumbled fifteen times in sixteen.

Very true, your Chargers forced like 2 of those on blindside hits, not to mention what the Niners did to him.

It's not sarcasm, no way would I trade Jay Cutler for Carson Palmer, if his knee wasn't completely jacked then I would call it an even deal, but right now, no way in hell.

freak6
02-08-2007, 02:06 PM
Remember, this was a rookie QB. A ROOKIE QB!!!

Had the fifth-highest passer rating of quarterbacks who had at least 125 passes (25.0 per game) from Dec. 1 onward

His 88.5 rating was behind only Indianapolis’ Peyton Manning (102.6), St. Louis’ Marc Bulger (93.4), New Orleans’ Drew Brees (91.8) and New England’s Tom Brady (90.1) …

Cutler’s nine touchdown passes in December were third in the league behind Bulger and Manning, who each fired 10

What's he gonna do after getting all the starters reps in camp, preseason, and regular season. Going into the playoffs he is gonna be tearing up defenses.

What he needs desperately is a solid O-line.

baja
02-08-2007, 02:11 PM
I will be great to pull this thread up late next season. Personally I think it will make Freak look very smart.

freak6
02-08-2007, 02:24 PM
Philip Rivers

SEPTEMBER GAMES 107.4
OCTOBER GAMES 94.9
NOVEMBER GAMES 89.0
DECEMBER GAMES 85.7

Not bad by any means, but with L.T. behind me, I'd look pretty good throwing fades to V. Jackson and jump balls to A. Gates.

Mile High Shack
02-08-2007, 02:26 PM
I'm speechless

wow

just wow

freak6
02-08-2007, 02:45 PM
Keep it that way.

USMCBladerunner
02-08-2007, 05:21 PM
Very true, your Chargers forced like 2 of those on blindside hits, not to mention what the Niners did to him.

It's not sarcasm, no way would I trade Jay Cutler for Carson Palmer, if his knee wasn't completely jacked then I would call it an even deal, but right now, no way in hell.

you are starting to dig yourself into a hole here...if a healthy Carson Palmer = trade for you, then your stance on Manning and Brady has been exposed as some dislike for them rather than an objective assessment of QB skill. It has been shown that they are both better QBs than Palmer.

USMCBladerunner
02-08-2007, 05:26 PM
The AFC is loaded with QBs, so a Pro Bowl could be tough.

But I'll take any bets that if Cutler stays healthy he throws over 25 TDs next year, gets us into the playoffs, and has a top 5 QB rating.

I'll bet my avatar for life.


you are completely missing the point of my arguments here...either you very stubborn or surprisingly thick...I would never take that bet with you. One, I think it is well within reason to believe you will be right, and two, I want for Cutler to demonstrate that level of proficiency.

What you aren't getting is that as likely as it is that you are right...it is even more likely that Manning will throw 35 TDs, get deeper into the playoffs, and have a top 1 QB rating. Why you would prefer the former to the latter is what baffles me.

broncocalijohn
02-08-2007, 05:42 PM
It is absolutley insane not to trade for Manning or Brady if the opportunity came about. He is not a guarantee to be better than these two. I would trade in a heart beat. 1st pick this year and 3rd rounder is picked by 2 people. Would that be a Chief and Charger fan? Thank you Cutler for a few games but time to leave for future hall of famers.

NaptownChief
02-08-2007, 05:57 PM
I really like Cutler's potential and I was on the Cutler bandwagon long before many of you guys even knew who he was.....but all that said if he doesn't turn out to be one the best QB's in the current era this thread will have more classic material than a Led Zeppelin box set.

Football bb's are never short of over the top comments but I don't think I have ever seen so many on one thread. Good stuff. At the start of this thread Jay Cutler was rookie QB with a lot of potential, seven pages later he has become a legend with Brett Favre's arm, Manning's brains, Vick's legs, Elway's late game composure, Montana's intangibles and Unitas' leadership.

freak6
02-08-2007, 05:59 PM
you are starting to dig yourself into a hole here...if a healthy Carson Palmer = trade for you, then your stance on Manning and Brady has been exposed as some dislike for them rather than an objective assessment of QB skill. It has been shown that they are both better QBs than Palmer.

Not. I'm saying they would be = as of now, but I still wouldn't make the deal because once he gets the experiance, he's better than Palmer because he is more mobile and more athletic.

freak6
02-08-2007, 06:01 PM
What you aren't getting is that as likely as it is that you are right...it is even more likely that Manning will throw 35 TDs, get deeper into the playoffs, and have a top 1 QB rating. Why you would prefer the former to the latter is what baffles me.

Agreed. Why then do I not make the trade? Age difference and where they are as far as skills getting better or declining. Peyton hasn't shown any decline though, but he will decline before Cutler because of age.

USMCBladerunner
02-08-2007, 06:21 PM
Not. I'm saying they would be = as of now, but I still wouldn't make the deal because once he gets the experiance, he's better than Palmer because he is more mobile and more athletic.

go back and look at what you wrote down...you didn't say they would be equal you said it would be an "even deal", in reference to your statement that you would not trade for Palmer because of his knee...a reasonable person takes that to mean you would trade for Palmer with a good knee...

don't put words in your mouth...:pity:

USMCBladerunner
02-08-2007, 06:23 PM
Agreed. Why then do I not make the trade? Age difference and where they are as far as skills getting better or declining. Peyton hasn't shown any decline though, but he will decline before Cutler because of age.

so we have reduced your preference for Cutler to... ... ...he's younger!?!?

rbackfactory80
02-08-2007, 06:34 PM
so we have reduced your preference for Cutler to... ... ...he's younger!?!?

Guess you weren't around when Freaks tagline was "Cutler is my NFL". He has been driving the Cutler bandwagon, and he made all these same arguments about Cutler's greatness before he even took a snap. He is either going to ride the J.C. train to the top or crash and burn in it.

epicSocialism4tw
02-08-2007, 06:36 PM
You would have to be certifiably insane not to trade a second year player with potential for one of the all-time greats.

USMCBladerunner
02-08-2007, 07:10 PM
Guess you weren't around when Freaks tagline was "Cutler is my NFL". He has been driving the Cutler bandwagon, and he made all these same arguments about Cutler's greatness before he even took a snap. He is either going to ride the J.C. train to the top or crash and burn in it.

Well, I hope he's all up in my face about how right he was come Jan of 2008. I hold the same hopes, just don't like pretending to know the unknowable.

ukbroncosfan
02-08-2007, 07:27 PM
freak6 put the anointing oil away.

Brian Billick said you know what you are going to get from a QB after he starts 40 games. Billick pulled the plug on Kyle Boller because he didn't like what he was seeing after 40 starts.

Jay Cutler has started 6 games. After Cutler starts 34 more games, we will know what we have.

freak6
02-08-2007, 07:27 PM
Well, I hope he's all up in my face about how right he was come Jan of 2008. I hold the same hopes, just don't like pretending to know the unknowable.

How do we know Peyton is ever going to put up the same numbers he did in 2002 and 3? We don't. It is forecasting only.

As far as making the deal, Palmer for Cutler right now today is about an even deal, because Carson has all the experiance. But by mid season Cutler will have surpassed him. That is why I wouldn't make the deal. And the same reasoning for Manning and Brady.

azbroncfan
02-08-2007, 07:33 PM
How is Carson Palmer better than Jay Cutler?

He's a stiff that fumbles everytime he's hit. Cutler has a better arm than him, is younger, and is only going to get better.

Peter King is a moron btw.

By the way I think Cutler might have led the league in Fumbles per starts, this can be fixed by getting him to put two hands on the ball. I noticed this in his first preseason game and said he will have a lot of fumbles if he doesn't use two hands.

I love Cutler as Denver's QB, but freak6 you come across super unintelligent in this thread.

freak6
02-08-2007, 07:37 PM
freak6 put the anointing oil away.

Brian Billick said you know what you are going to get from a QB after he starts 40 games. Billick pulled the plug on Kyle Boller because he didn't like what he was seeing after 40 starts.

Jay Cutler has started 6 games. After Cutler starts 34 more games, we will know what we have.

Brian Billick isn't freak6. I don't care what Brian Billick says. It's obvious the kid has the tools to succeed, not to mention the best coach in the NFL.

azbroncfan
02-08-2007, 07:38 PM
You would have to be certifiably insane not to trade a second year player with potential for one of the all-time greats.

He wouldn't of traded Jeff George or Rick Mirer for John Elway back in the day either.

freak6
02-08-2007, 07:39 PM
I love Cutler as Denver's QB, but freak6 you come across super unintelligent in this thread.

He got blindsided 3 times and coughed it up. He'll learn to get rid of it as the clock in his head runs out. Experiance will come as he takes his bumps and bruises. As far as me coming off as uninintelligent in this thread, 58% of the other fans agree with me and I'll put my forecasting skills against ANYONES on this thread.

My fantasy drafts always put me in top position year in year out.

I already said I'll bet my avatar for life.

Still no takers, but alot of <b>sht talkers.

ukbroncosfan
02-08-2007, 07:42 PM
By the way I think Cutler might have led the league in Fumbles, this can be fixed by getting him to put two hands on the ball. I noticed this in his first preseason game and said he will have a lot of fumbles if he doesn't use two hands.

I love Cutler as Denver's QB, but freak6 you come across super unintelligent in this thread.

azbroncfan does Jay Cutler have small hands? I ask because I read Daunte Culpepper's fumbling problem is because he has small hands.

azbroncfan
02-08-2007, 07:46 PM
He got blindsided 3 times and coughed it up. He'll learn to get rid of it as the clock in his head runs out. Experiance will come as he takes his bumps and bruises. As far as me coming off as uninintelligent in this thread, 58% of the other fans agree with me and I'll put my forecasting skills against ANYONES on this thread.

My fantasy drafts always put me in top position year in year out.

I alread said I'll bet my avatar for life.

Still no takers, but alot of sht talkers.


Hey I hope you are right but I think that explains it right there. I knew something wasn't right when you were soooo concerned about QB rating.

azbroncfan
02-08-2007, 07:47 PM
azbroncfan does Jay Cutler have small hands? I ask because I read Daunte Culpepper's fumbling problem is because he has small hands.

I don't think he has small hands because he uses one hand a lot when scrambling and dropping back. It is something I guarantee Shanny has talked to him about.

ukbroncosfan
02-08-2007, 07:51 PM
He got blindsided 3 times and coughed it up. He'll learn to get rid of it as the clock in his head runs out. Experiance will come as he takes his bumps and bruises. As far as me coming off as uninintelligent in this thread, 58% of the other fans agree with me and I'll put my forecasting skills against ANYONES on this thread.

My fantasy drafts always put me in top position year in year out.

I alread said I'll bet my avatar for life.

Still no takers, but alot of sht talkers.

Tony Romo looked like a first ballot Hall of Famer after 6 starts.

Jay Cutler has all the tools you look for in a QB. He is in the perfect situation, but it's not a slam dunk he will be the next Brett Favre or Tom Brady.

freak6
02-08-2007, 07:52 PM
Hey I hope you are right but I think that explains it right there. I knew something wasn't right when you were soooo concerned about QB rating.

We are talking about stats here. QB Rating is stupid. A good fantasy owner would take a QB that throws 30 TDs even with 20 Ints because of the point difference, over a QB that throws 25 and 10.

As far as wins, with our schedule i think 12-4 is reasonable.

All we have to do is get in the playoffs. From there, you never know.

freak6
02-08-2007, 07:57 PM
Tony Romo looked like a first ballot Hall of Famer after 6 starts.

Jay Cutler has all the tools you look for in a QB. He is in the perfect situation, but it's not a slam dunk he will be the next Brett Favre or Tom Brady.

Tony Romo was in his 4th year in the Pros too. This was a freaking Rookie who had the dear in the headlights vs the Seahawks.

Granted it is a small sample of 5 games. But considering he is only going to get better it's not even optimistic to say he is going to be a star QB next year, it's a given. The only thing that worries me is that he holds onto the ball a little to long focusing downfield on his recievers. This is great for 3 seconds, but by 4 it's time to use your peripheral vision and make a decision. He's learning, by mid season next year you'll all be saying I was right.

ukbroncosfan
02-08-2007, 08:00 PM
I don't think he has small hands because he uses one hand a lot when scrambling and dropping back. It is something I guarantee Shanny has talked to him about.

I just looked at Jay Cutler's Vanderbilt stats and he had 0 fumbles rushing.

I didn't think he had small hands because it would have been mentioned in his scouting report. I just chalked it up to him being a rookie and not working with Tom Nalen.

Florida_Bronco
02-08-2007, 08:01 PM
Freak, why did you even start this thread if you are just going to argue with everyone who would trade Jay? ???

ukbroncosfan
02-08-2007, 08:08 PM
Tony Romo was in his 4th year in the Pros too. This was a freaking Rookie who had the dear in the headlights vs the Seahawks.

Granted it is a small sample of 5 games. But considering he is only going to get better it's not even optimistic to say he is going to be a star QB next year, it's a given. The only thing that worries me is that he holds onto the ball a little to long focusing downfield on his recievers. This is great for 3 seconds, but by 4 it's time to use your peripheral vision and make a decision. He's learning, by mid season next year you'll all be saying I was right.

I think you could be right, but it's not a given. Do you remember everybody posting about the Patriots before we played the 49ers? It was a given we were going to win.

IMHO Jay Cutler will be a stud.

freak6
02-08-2007, 08:11 PM
Freak, why did you even start this thread if you are just going to argue with everyone who would trade Jay? ???

Ummmm....

That is exactly why I started it.

You haven't figured that out about me yet? Anyway...

It's an interesting debate to have because it is a such a close call. I totally see where Manning would make sense to alot of people. But I think coming out of the Superbowl people are exagerating his greatness after he threw 3 TDs and 7 INTS on his way to "earning" the SB MVP... lol!

Palmer, no fn way as Cutler has better tools and is only lacking in experiance, plus his knees are cool.

Rivers is straight up laughable. Declining QB rating over the season, questionable arm strength at least compared to Jay Cutler, and he had the best RB and TE in the NFL with him. That SD team is stacked talent wise except at WR.

McNabb is coming off major ACL tear. LT is a RB, as great as he is, franchise QBs are tough to come by.

Florida_Bronco
02-08-2007, 08:15 PM
Ummmm....

That is exactly why I started it.

You haven't figured that out about me yet? Anyway...

It's an interesting debate to have because it is a such a close call. I totally see where Manning would make sense to alot of people. But I think coming out of the Superbowl people are exagerating his greatness after he threw 3 TDs and 7 INTS on his way to "earning" the SB MVP... lol!

Palmer, no fn way as Cutler has better tools and is only lacking in experiance, plus his knees are cool.

Rivers is straight up laughable. Declining QB rating over the season, questionable arm strength at least compared to Jay Cutler, and he had the best RB and TE in the NFL with him. That SD team is stacked talent wise except at WR.

McNabb is coming off major ACL tear. LT is a RB, as great as he is, franchise QBs are tough to come by.

Maybe I just don't feel the need to shove my opinions down everyone else's throats.

Whatever though, enjoy your arguments.

freak6
02-08-2007, 08:15 PM
I think you could be right, but it's not a given. Do you remember everybody posting about the Patriots before we played the 49ers? It was a given we were going to win.

IMHO Jay Cutler will be a stud.

I don't remember that, I was in Denver and not logging in then. We should have won that game, but it's tough to win with a garbage RT and an "offensive line coach that adjusts the blocking scheme to late". That is a paraphrased quote from Jay Cutler by the way.

We couldn't do sht vs the Rams because our offense was to predictable. Same vs the Chefs, we barely won 9-6 in OT. Terrible. Barely score enough to beat B-more at home. The offense sucked. I posted Cutler's stats a few times that showed the improvement in the offense as soon as he took the reins, and he wasn't even close to as good as he can be.

So much to improve, and <B>he was still a top 5 QB in the ENTIRE NFL while he was playing.

SOMEBODY SAY SOMETHING!!!!!!!

ukbroncosfan
02-08-2007, 08:16 PM
Ummmm....

That is exactly why I started it.

You haven't figured that out about me yet? Anyway...

It's an interesting debate to have because it is a such a close call. I totally see where Manning would make sense to alot of people. But I think coming out of the Superbowl people are exagerating his greatness after he threw 3 TDs and 7 INTS on his way to "earning" the SB MVP... lol!

Palmer, no fn way as Cutler has better tools and is only lacking in experiance, plus his knees are cool.

Rivers is straight up laughable. Declining QB rating over the season, questionable arm strength at least compared to Jay Cutler, and he had the best RB and TE in the NFL with him. That SD team is stacked talent wise except at WR.

McNabb is coming off major ACL tear. LT is a RB, as great as he is, franchise QBs are tough to come by.

QB rating is overrated. Kurt Warner would rather take a sack than throw the ball away because it would lower his QB rating.

freak6
02-08-2007, 08:17 PM
Maybe I just don't feel the need to shove my opinions down everyone else's throats.

Whatever though, enjoy your arguments.

Thanks I do, as long as my network is up, I got time to debate, and it keeps my mind off how FKD up this war is going.

ukbroncosfan
02-08-2007, 08:19 PM
I don't remember that, I was in Denver and not logging in then. We should have won that game, but it's tough to win with a garbage RT and an "offensive line coach that adjusts the blocking scheme to late". That is a paraphrased quote from Jay Cutler by the way.

We couldn't do sht vs the Rams because our offense was to predictable. Same vs the Chefs, we barely won 9-6 in OT. Terrible. Barely score enough to beat B-more at home. The offense sucked. I posted Cutler's stats a few times that showed the improvement in the offense as soon as he took the reins, and he wasn't even close to as good as he can be.

So much to improve, and <B>he still a top 5 QB in the ENTIRE NFL while he was playing.

SAY SOMETHING!!!!!!!

He could be a top five QB next year, but he isn't at the moment. He is a top 15 QB.

ZONA
02-08-2007, 08:22 PM
He could be a top five QB next year, but he isn't at the moment. He is a top 15 QB.


AT THE MOMENT - it's the offseason and everybody is = right now :rofl:

freak6
02-08-2007, 08:26 PM
He could be a top five QB next year, but he isn't at the moment. He is a top 15 QB.

Stats say otherwise! Stats say he was a top 5 QB. Throw in how much he is going to improve over the off-season, pre-season, and regular season, by the playoffs he'll be a top 5 QB stats and otherwise.

I'm off to the gym. Peace out ladies!

ukbroncosfan
02-08-2007, 08:34 PM
Stats say otherwise! Stats say he was a top 5 QB. Throw in how much he is going to improve over the off-season, pre-season, and regular season, by the playoffs he'll be a top 5 QB stats and otherwise.

I'm off to the gym. Peace out ladies!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2717356

USMCBladerunner
02-08-2007, 09:29 PM
this is my last post on this dolt who can't distinguish between a QB getting better and being better than the highest QB production rate in the history of the NFL. Freak...don't even try to come at me with "I told you so," just because Cutler is playing well next year, because for the last time..THAT ISN'T WHAT I'M ARGUEING AGAINST. Save that zhit for when he is outperforming Peyton Manning for a meaningful period of time. I hope it comes soon. I'm done with this tool...

oh and one last thing...it's DEER in the headlights

Florida_Bronco
02-08-2007, 10:30 PM
Just for the record, I wouldn't trade Cutler for any of those guys.

baja
02-09-2007, 01:46 AM
I think you could be right, but it's not a given. Do you remember everybody posting about the Patriots before we played the 49ers? It was a given we were going to win.

IMHO Jay Cutler will be a stud.

Not everyone I started two threads warning about overlooking this game against a rising team in the 49ers.

fontaine
02-09-2007, 05:34 AM
No, I'm saying that the Pro Bowl is a joke and no measure of how good a QB is, especially since Tony Romo made it from the NFC. Cutler doesn't have the fan votes that go to Manning, Brady, or Palmer.

And trading Cutler for Rivers is insane. Philip Rivers has suspect mechanics as it is, his last 4 games he was terrible, and he can't fire a fastball into close quarters, he has to lead recievers to open spots because he doesn't have a cannon.

You are probably the only one on this board that would make that trade, <b>besides every Charger fan!!! lmfao!!!</b>

I'm saying Cutler will have a top 5 QB rating in the entire league next year, and will be more than worthy of a stupid Pro Bowl, but with fan votes you never know because of how loaded the AFC is at the position.

I'll bet my avatar for life that Cutler has a top 5 QB rating next year.

You can either take the bet, or walk away.

That's just crazy. Why would I bet against Cutler? I want to dude to succeed and I believe he will.

Once again you're getting confused so let me explain this to you as simply as I can:

Guys like Palmer have proved in this league that they ARE NOT busts and are quality franchise QBs. That's the ONLY reason why I would trade Cutler for Palmer. No matter how you spin it Cutler still has to play up to his potential and hence there's some uncertainty about him. That's no knock on him, just not enough games to prove he's a stud.

azbroncfan
02-09-2007, 09:20 AM
Not everyone I started two threads warning about overlooking this game against a rising team in the 49ers.

I overlooked them but what I think has no effect on the Denver Broncos.

BroncoBuff
02-09-2007, 10:40 AM
No brainer.


Seriously, pass some of that over here. Elway in his prime with 7-8 years left and the coach best suited to Elway's strengths for Cutler? Again, no brainer.

Ben

If healthy, Cutler will be better than Elway.

Paladin
02-09-2007, 10:56 AM
I looked at the last page, and I am glad I didn't read the whole thread. What an absolute waste of time and bandwidth. Serves no purpose at all.

Move along. Nothing to see here.......

freak6
02-09-2007, 12:24 PM
If healthy, Cutler will be better than Elway.

Sacrilege!!!

Erroneous!!!

Take it back!!!

freak6
02-09-2007, 12:26 PM
Guys like Palmer have proved in this league that they ARE NOT busts and are quality franchise QBs. That's the ONLY reason why I would trade Cutler for Palmer.

So do you think the Colts would have traded Peyton after his rookie year for any QB in the NFL?

azbroncfan
02-09-2007, 07:52 PM
So do you think the Colts would have traded Peyton after his rookie year for any QB in the NFL?

Yes next question. They easily would of traded him for Farve and that was when the franchise QB's were on their way out. I think that might have been the only QB they might of traded for.

-Slap-
02-09-2007, 08:15 PM
If healthy, Cutler will be better than Elway.

Jay doesn't have quite John's off the chart athletic tools, but he appears more polished at a similar stage of development. Elway's toughness and leadership intangibles elevated him so far above almost everybody else. We need to see Cutler deal with a lot more adversity before we'll know how he compares in those departments.

Florida_Bronco
02-10-2007, 04:31 AM
Yes next question. They easily would of traded him for Farve and that was when the franchise QB's were on their way out. I think that might have been the only QB they might of traded for.

That would have been a bad move too. Going after instant gratification can really leave you hurting in the long run, which is why I would not trade Cutler.

errand
02-10-2007, 09:21 AM
How many QB's can thrown 68 yards down the field on target? Cutler is special.

Well, let's see...Akili Smith, Jeff George, Ryan Leaf. They too were once considered special as well.

errand
02-10-2007, 09:28 AM
I'm on board for the Jay Cutler experience, good, bad, or whatever. I don't want Peyton Manning or Tom Brady in Denver. I want to go through ups and downs with our own guy. Maybe in three years, it turns out that he's the next coming of Jake Plummer and the Broncos decide it's time to get rid of him. Oh well.

At this moment in time, I believe in the kid. I believe in his arm. I believe in his confidence. I believe in his ability to handle the pressure. I think he's the right fit at the right time in Denver, and I wouldn't want to trade him for either Manning or Brady.

I find it odd that you're willing to go thru "ups & downs" with Cutler, but not Jake. Go figure. And I find it even more odd that you wouldn't trade him for Manning after your glowing man-crush thread you started when our D got torched by him yet, again.

The one thing I've noticed from alot of those on here is they keep saying "they hope", or "hopefully", or "Cutler could". Hardly anyone is saying they "know".

We all know the trade wouldn'ty happen....and we all do hope that Cutler becomes what Manning and Brady have proven to be. But there is no guarantee he will.

errand
02-10-2007, 06:31 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/409102

Take these stats, and do the math over 16 games.

30 Touchdowns - would have been good for <b>2nd in the NFL</b> this season

If you take away the int he threw vs the Seahawks and give him a slightly higher completion % of about 62% the kid is easily a top 5 QB in the NFL.

.

So based on taking away an INT that he did throw, and giving him more completions than he actually threw, you think Cutler would be a top 5 QB? Wow, sheer genius there dude.

I'll demostrate your absurdity by being absurd myself -

Well if we took away half of Jake's INTS and gave him another 6% in completion pct. Jay would have sat the bench all year. The point being you can't give him any more completions or take away any INT's. The kid did what he did.....

Look we understand you're queer for Jay's gear, and we all hope your visions into the future comes true, but you have no idea how well Jay will actually perform next season.....or any season afterwards.

Ever hear of the "sophomore slump"? That's where a guy doesn't play as well in his second year as he did in his first....happens all the time.Mike Croel looked like a stud racking up 10 sacks as a rookie....ended up being a garbage player.

What if Jay tore up his knee in preseason? What if he injures his shoulder like Griese did? You never know how the football will bounce.

bpc
02-10-2007, 06:55 PM
If healthy, Cutler will be better than Elway.

I think a more proper statement would be to say that "IF HEALTHY" Cutler will have better stats and more wins by the end of his career. I think Cutler will need to define his own legacy but with his skills and Mike Shanahan, there is no reason why he can't surpass many levels of greatness.

I'm so eager to see what this kid will be bringing us for years to come.

azbroncfan
02-10-2007, 08:17 PM
That would have been a bad move too. Going after instant gratification can really leave you hurting in the long run, which is why I would not trade Cutler.

Why would trading a rookie for the best QB in the game in his prime be a bad move? There is no guarantee that the rookie will pan out and it was pretty obvious Farve was a Hall of Famer in the making.

Circle Orange
02-12-2007, 09:46 AM
Manning

3 touchdowns, 7 interceptions in playoffs

Gameplan in superbowl...go underneath, hide his foolishness after initial pick into coverage...run for boo coo yards...let "d" play out of their minds against inexperienced qb...WIN.

Peyton acted like winning was no big deal. Seemed like the commentators were more worked up about his so called 'validation' than he was. So if you ask me, I couldn't get into his SB win. Was kinda like, whatever.

And Brady is a good quarterback confused with a great one. He's made a career out of pedestrian stats and wins. Translation: he's rarely called on to extend himself for a win. When he is he looks ordinary (see playoff game vs Colts). Could he win games in Denver? Sure, but so did Jake who got to the AFC title game. And why even bring Elway's name up? Completely different circumstance...it took Manning 10 freaking years just to GET to the bowl.

Enough Colts gloss already.

baja
02-12-2007, 10:11 AM
Manning

3 touchdowns, 7 interceptions in playoffs

Gameplan in superbowl...go underneath, hide his foolishness after initial pick into coverage...run for boo coo yards...let "d" play out of their minds against inexperienced qb...WIN.

Peyton acted like winning was no big deal. Seemed like the commentators were more worked up about his so called 'validation' than he was. So if you ask me, I couldn't get into his SB win. Was kinda like, whatever.

And Brady is a good quarterback confused with a great one. He's made a career out of pedestrian stats and wins. Translation: he's rarely called on to extend himself for a win. When he is he looks ordinary (see playoff game vs Colts). Could he win games in Denver? Sure, but so did Jake who got to the AFC title game. And why even bring Elway's name up? Completely different circumstance...it took Manning 10 freaking years just to GET to the bowl.

Enough Colts gloss already.

What I noticed is that after the game when the colts were celebrating the win Manning was prancing around alone and all the players were congratulating each other and all over Dungy.

Florida_Bronco
02-12-2007, 01:16 PM
Why would trading a rookie for the best QB in the game in his prime be a bad move? There is no guarantee that the rookie will pan out and it was pretty obvious Farve was a Hall of Famer in the making.

For the same reason it would have been bad for the Colts to trade Manning for Favre. Manning is already 30, so he probably has 6 or 7 years left. Jay is only in his 2nd year and has at the very least, 10 years left.

Also, in 1999 (which is when the Favre for Manning trade would have happened) is when Favre really started to decline. Now don't you think the Colts would feel stupid if they made that trade?

Going after instant gratification can easily backfire.

watermock
02-12-2007, 02:35 PM
I know this is just forum fodder but trading staight up for Manning wouldn't happen...but if it did, we would take a 10 million dollar cap hit, pick up a 15 million back ended salary and lose about 8 years. I'd like to see that pig fly thru the salary cap hoop.

crazyhorse
02-12-2007, 02:43 PM
For the same reason it would have been bad for the Colts to trade Manning for Favre. Manning is already 30, so he probably has 6 or 7 years left. Jay is only in his 2nd year and has at the very least, 10 years left.

Also, in 1999 (which is when the Favre for Manning trade would have happened) is when Favre really started to decline. Now don't you think the Colts would feel stupid if they made that trade?

Going after instant gratification can easily backfire.

Trading for a QB that has done nothing but win for a QB that has never been a winner is hardly a "gamble".

One could easily argue that to stick with someone who has yet to break .500 on any level is a gamble.

Florida_Bronco
02-12-2007, 06:55 PM
Trading for a QB that has done nothing but win for a QB that has never been a winner is hardly a "gamble".

One could easily argue that to stick with someone who has yet to break .500 on any level is a gamble.

If Jay Cutler pans out, we stand to gain alot more than we would with Manning.

azbroncfan
02-12-2007, 08:21 PM
For the same reason it would have been bad for the Colts to trade Manning for Favre. Manning is already 30, so he probably has 6 or 7 years left. Jay is only in his 2nd year and has at the very least, 10 years left.
Also, in 1999 (which is when the Favre for Manning trade would have happened) is when Favre really started to decline. Now don't you think the Colts would feel stupid if they made that trade?

Going after instant gratification can easily backfire.

Sometimes I wonder where your logic comes from, who says Cutler is guaranteed to play 10 years? Anytime you can trade a guy with one season or less such as Jay for a Hall of Famer in his prime you pull the trigger. If you get 6-7 years that is a great deal of a QB playing at a high level as now you have no idea what you have other than potential. Now is that potential Rick Mirer or the guy you are trading him for? The deal would of been made.

Florida_Bronco
02-13-2007, 01:30 AM
Sometimes I wonder where your logic comes from, who says Cutler is guaranteed to play 10 years? Anytime you can trade a guy with one season or less such as Jay for a Hall of Famer in his prime you pull the trigger. If you get 6-7 years that is a great deal of a QB playing at a high level as now you have no idea what you have other than potential. Now is that potential Rick Mirer or the guy you are trading him for? The deal would of been made.

Yeah, it's a gamble alright, but we stand to gain more if Jay pans out then we would gain with Peyton Manning. Just like the example I used, trading Jay for Manning would be the "logical" move, but IMO you take a gamble on your own guy (if he's that talented) and hope that you are rewarded.

SoCalBronco
02-13-2007, 01:42 AM
I wouldnt trade that kid for anyone in this league.

freak6
02-13-2007, 12:14 PM
I wouldnt trade that kid for anyone in this league.

:gobroncos

I cannot WAIT for next season. Most anticipated season since we choked to Jax.

Florida_Bronco
02-13-2007, 12:25 PM
I wouldnt trade that kid for anyone in this league.

THE MAN has spoken...so let it be written! :thumbsup:

errand
02-13-2007, 01:29 PM
I've noticed that Freak6 has done his best to diminish Peyton winning the SB MVP, when any older person would be able to tell him the MVP is more than the guy with the gaudiest stats.

SBXI MVP Fred Belitnikoff had 4 catches for 79 yards, and no TD's. But all 4 of his receptions set up scores

freak6
02-13-2007, 01:32 PM
I've noticed that Freak6 has done his best to diminish Peyton winning the SB MVP, when any older person would be able to tell him the MVP is more than the guy with the gaudiest stats.

SBXI MVP Fred Belitnikoff had 4 catches for 79 yards, and no TD's. But all 4 of his receptions set up scores

lmfao!

It is well established that Peyton did not deserve that MVP.

errand
02-13-2007, 01:56 PM
lmfao!

It is well established that Peyton did not deserve that MVP.

Really? You do realize that alot of people thought Elway should have won MVP of SBXXXII despite his mediocre stats. His cool play and gutsy dive for a first down inspired his teammates just as much as TD running all over GB did.

Your just trying to talk down Peyton to justify your man crush on Jay. Right now Jay couldn't carry Peyton's jock strap.

Peyton is a proven leader and will be a unanimous choice for hall of fame if he never throws another pass, and Jay like I said earlier is an unscratched lottery ticket that could make us rich....or feeling like we wasted alot of money

Imdkeeper
02-13-2007, 02:03 PM
Would you trade your right arm for somebody elses right arm? Over the course of time(the next couple years) the team will be formed around Cutler.... tailor fitted... Like an Armani suit.

He's in year .5 right now, experience wise... just a rough, but promising, lump of clay. Taking into consideration the tools he hs brought with him, he will be taught to play like a Bronco QB is expected to play.

I loved Jake... but he had already developed a style (rut) of his own, playing lika a "Cardinals QB". Even at his best, he was a Cardinal's QB playing in a Bronco uniform. If you bring in a QB from another team, it's always going to be that way. That could be a good thing.... or a bad thing... I dont believe that "you can't teach an old dog new tricks." but I do believe that it's extremely hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

Jay Cutler... I think I'll keep him.

errand
02-13-2007, 02:14 PM
Would you trade your right arm for somebody elses right arm? Over the course of time(the next couple years) the team will be formed around Cutler.... tailor fitted... Like an Armani suit.

He's in year .5 right now, experience wise... just a rough, but promising, lump of clay. Taking into consideration the tools he hs brought with him, he will be taught to play like a Bronco QB is expected to play.

I loved Jake... but he had already developed a style (rut) of his own, playing lika a "Cardinals QB". Even at his best, he was a Cardinal's QB playing in a Bronco uniform. If you bring in a QB from another team, it's always going to be that way. That could be a good thing.... or a bad thing... I dont believe that "you can't teach an old dog new tricks." but I do believe that it's extremely hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

Jay Cutler... I think I'll keep him.

...and I think a good dog is a good dog, no matter who the owner is.

Do you honestly think that a guy like Manning or Brady would struggle in Denver? We're not talking about Mike McMahon here.... we're talking about two relatively young QB's who have proven to be winners and MVPs vs. a young guy with immense potential who hasn't done anything as of yet except fumble more than once a game, and has lost 60% of his games started.

Like that one poster said, anyone who wouldn't trade Cutler for Manning or Brady isn't looking at this team objectively, and anyone who would trade Cutler for a healthy Palmer, but not Manning or Brady is just experiencing a man crush on Cutler.

errand
02-13-2007, 02:19 PM
What he needs desperately is a solid O-line.

So Jay is gonna be in dire need of a OL help?

So tell us there genius...how is Cutler going to set the world on fire if he's throwing off his back foot...or from the prone position? Did your clairvoyance factor in this serious lack of a quality OL?

freak6
02-13-2007, 02:20 PM
Really? You do realize that alot of people thought Elway should have won MVP of SBXXXII despite his mediocre stats. His cool play and gutsy dive for a first down inspired his teammates just as much as TD running all over GB did.

Your just trying to talk down Peyton to justify your man crush on Jay. Right now Jay couldn't carry Peyton's jock strap.


Elway had the play of the game, but that doesn't = MVP. 3 touchdowns, 157 yards in 3 quarters. You are really reaching by trying to justify Peyton's garbage MVP by comparing to Elway not winning it when Terrell Davis ran roughshod all over the Packers.

Just by you doing it shows you are just like the other unobjective clowns GIVING Peyton the MVP just because he won the Superbowl.

I guess for some people seeing the prolific choker finally play a DECENT AFC Championship game warrants him getting a pass all the way to the MVP call, when there were others more deserving.

Elway didn't deserve it, and neither did Peyton.

As far as Peyton vs Cutler, I've seen enough to know that if Cutler stays healthy he will win more rings in Denver than Peyton would.

watermock
02-13-2007, 02:20 PM
I'm thinking of taking him in the second round.

freak6
02-13-2007, 02:26 PM
So Jay is gonna be in dire need of a OL help?

So tell us there genius...how is Cutler going to set the world on fire if he's throwing off his back foot...or from the prone position? Did your clairvoyance factor in this serious lack of a quality OL?

Here's what he did with that shoddy RT situation, and our backup LT.

Had the fifth-highest passer rating of quarterbacks who had at least 125 passes (25.0 per game) from Dec. 1 onward

His 88.5 rating was behind only Indianapolis’ Peyton Manning (102.6), St. Louis’ Marc Bulger (93.4), New Orleans’ Drew Brees (91.8) and New England’s Tom Brady (90.1) …

Cutler’s nine touchdown passes in December were third in the league behind Bulger and Manning, who each fired 10

I have faith in this one dude, that traded a few picks for Cutler, that mortgaged the future for Cutler, that he may just protect his investment by building as strong a wall around him as he can. I forget his name, but some call him <b>The Mastermind.</b>

watermock
02-13-2007, 02:29 PM
Sometimes stats DONT lie...the problem was the defense. And a certain tackle. If your beaten like a turnstile, freakin' hold god dammit. A sack puts you down 7 yards anyway and you lose a down and the QB gets his head bounced...nice. Taking the penalty saves the QB and saves a down.

That was it for me.

errand
02-13-2007, 02:31 PM
Agreed. Why then do I not make the trade? Age difference and where they are as far as skills getting better or declining. Peyton hasn't shown any decline though, but he will decline before Cutler because of age.

Yeah, because guys like Elway have proven their not any good past age 30 huh? Dan Marino should have quit in '96 too, huh?

In this day and age of weight training and sports medicine, barring a severe injury, a guy like Manning's skills will not diminish as much as you think.

It amazes me your using Manning age as a reason not to make the trade, but blast anyone saying Jay being an unknown commodity as being ridiculous.

Which statement is a fact? Which is a belief?

Peyton Manning is a Pro Bowl QB that has proven he can win a title.

Jay Cutler is a Pro Bowl QB that has proven he can win a title.

We all hope Jay becomes the QB you think he'll be....but you're starting to go down the same road TJ did when he called Brian Griese " the NFL's most efficient QB - bar none*"


(* - when given protection, of course)

I think you might want to see if Jay can manage taking a snap from Nalen on a consistent basis before you go around saying he's the second coming.

errand
02-13-2007, 02:35 PM
You would have to be certifiably insane not to trade a second year player with potential for one of the all-time greats....who still has alot of gas in his tank

...hope you don't mind, but I fixed it for you. I'd hate for some clown to come in here saying "Oh, so you'd trade Cutler for Johnny Unitas?" Because everyone knows Unitas is way too old these days.

errand
02-13-2007, 02:44 PM
Brian Billick isn't freak6. I don't care what Brian Billick says. It's obvious the kid has the tools to succeed, not to mention the best coach in the NFL.

You need a serious dose of reality Freak6.

The bus stations are filled with guys who had all the tools to suceed...and yet, they never did. Some for logical reasons like character issues and others for maturity issues, and still others were just work out wonders like Mike Mamula look good on paper. sure it'd be a head scratcher if this kid doesn't develop into something special...but once again all the word potential means is "you ain't done nothing yet".

And while we all love Mike and hope he has many years of sucess in Denver, he needs to win something more than a divisional playoff game without Elway as his QB before we reinstall that genius label.

freak6
02-13-2007, 02:51 PM
It amazes me your using Manning age as a reason not to make the trade, but blast anyone saying Jay being an unknown commodity as being ridiculous.


For all we know the Colts could win the next 4 Superbowls in a row. I don't see any decline in Peyton's game, and we may not for another 4 years. The big problems I have with Manning are his playoff performances. The COLTS won the Superbowl, not Manning. I wouldn't say they won it despite him, but 3 TDs and 7 Ints are nothing to brag about.

I'd rather have our guy. His stats in those 5 starts are pretty amazing for a rookie QB. He will only get better. He'll be a top 5 QB in the NFL next season. After that, only better.

Do you really think the fumbled snaps will continue? Do you really think Shanny isn't going to protect his investment?

C'mon.

Manning is the only guy I would even consider in a trade for Jay Cutler, and having been debating it on this thread the last couple weeks, I have to admit I am like 70% - 30%. I get what you are saying Errand, and I can envision how Manning would play here.

Bottomline - Manning is another Marino to me. He puts up gaudy stats, but once again was less than good on his way to being handed the SB MVP. He plays in a comfy dome but looks blah outside in the elements. I think Cutler has better physical tools, has the smarts, and just needs the experiance to get up to Peyton's level, which I anticipate him playing at next season. Manning would make us better immediately, but Cutler can be better, should be as good, and will win rings for the Denver Broncos. I just couldn't make that trade, especially knowing how Peyton performs in the playoffs.

No way does Elway, Cutler, or a QB worth his legend audible on 3rd and 5 from the 27 late in a playoff game to a run. WoManning does, over and over. Elway stuck to the call, and if it doesn't work...

freak6
02-13-2007, 02:54 PM
You need a serious dose of reality Freak6.



Why? Because someone quotes Brian Billick about quarterbacks and I don't give a fk about some quote about how we need to see a QB for 48 games before we know what he is worth. Please.

Cutler has all the tools as we both know. And, he used those tools and performed.

You are really good at quoting all these old posts of mine.

Why don't you quote Jay's December stats? You never mention those. I wonder why?

hmmm....

errand
02-13-2007, 02:55 PM
That would have been a bad move too. Going after instant gratification can really leave you hurting in the long run, which is why I would not trade Cutler.

Yeah, you're right. We never should have traded for Javon Walker and the instant gratification he gave us...instead we should have kept Lelie and his immense potential.

bronco militia
02-13-2007, 02:59 PM
This thread has really brought out some craptastic homerism in folks. I swear some of you azz clowns would probably not trade Brandon Marshall for Anquan Boldin either. Or Tony Scheffler for Antonio Gates.




bwahaha...

this thread just won't die

errand
02-13-2007, 03:03 PM
If Jay Cutler pans out, we stand to gain alot more than we would with Manning.

..I hi-lighted the key word for you.

It's the same word you and the rest cannot avoid saying when defending your nix of this fantasy trade.

errand
02-13-2007, 03:15 PM
As far as Peyton vs Cutler, I've seen enough to know that if Cutler stays healthy he will win more rings in Denver than Peyton would.

...damn, there it is again. that "if" word.

BTW, I didn't say Elway deserved the MVP award for SBXXXIII, I said alot of people believe he deserved it. Ottis Anderson wasn't MVP of XXV, Thurman Thomas deserved it. Was Jim Plunkett more instrumental in Oakland destroying Philadelphia 27-10 or was it Rod Martin and his SB record 3 INTs?

Look we get it...you're queer for Jay's gear.

crazyhorse
02-13-2007, 03:28 PM
Wanna play fantasy football? LOL

You can have Jay Cutler and I'll take Payton Manning.



Donko fans....I love you retards.

Florida_Bronco
02-13-2007, 03:33 PM
Wanna play fantasy football? LOL

You can have Jay Cutler and I'll take Payton Manning.



Donko fans....I love you retards.

Fantasy football sucks. :thumbs:

crazyhorse
02-13-2007, 03:37 PM
Fantasy football sucks. :thumbs:

I guess it does when you take guys like "Under .500 Cutler" over MVP Manning.

errand
02-13-2007, 03:47 PM
Why? Because someone quotes Brian Billick about quarterbacks and I don't give a fk about some quote about how we need to see a QB for 48 games before we know what he is worth. Please.

Cutler has all the tools as we both know. And, he used those tools and performed.

You are really good at quoting all these old posts of mine.

Why don't you quote Jay's December stats? You never mention those. I wonder why?

hmmm....

OK, let's look at his stats....

Jay lost 3 of his 5 starts, and to be honest a botched PAT saved him from losing that Cincy game to the guy you wouldn't trade him for...so his only true win was vs the Cardinals, a perrenial also-ran. But because we go with what actually happened he gets credit for the Cincy win as well. That gives him a winning pct of 40%....or a losing pct of 60%. Matters not to me how you want to look at it.

His QB rating got progressively worse He had a rating of 62.3 vs Seattle, he shot up to 97.6 vs. SD, he topped out @ 101.7 vs Cards, and then he started declining to 88.9 vs. Cincy, and ended with a 84.1 vs SF.

He turned the ball over multiple times in all but one of his 5 starts. He tossed 2 INTs vs Seattle and one INT in each of his final 3 starts, not to mention he lost 4-5 fumbles, so either by fumble or int he gave the opposing team extra opportunities to win the game (at which they did at a 60% clip BTW)

He was sacked 13 times which is almost 3 times a game....which is odd because you tout his mobility alot., and despite his cat like niumbleness, he sucked at picking up yards when he did run...a mere 18 yards on 12 carries. Brian Griese would be ashamed of those type of numbers.

He completed less than 60% of his passes in 2 of his 5 starts.

He threw for 190 or more yards in only 2 of his 5 starts, and had 3 ints returned for TD's which not only decreased our chances of winning the games, but gave the opposing team lot's of instant gratification.

But, he does throw the ball hard...and looks nice in his uniform. Potential = unscratched lotto ticket.

freak6
02-15-2007, 01:22 PM
...damn, there it is again. that "if" word.

BTW, I didn't say Elway deserved the MVP award for SBXXXIII, I said alot of people believe he deserved it.

Look we get it...you're queer for Jay's gear.

lmao, John Elway did win the MVP in SBXXXIII...

And the fact you brought up "alot of people" is an old Fox News tactic for the weak minded trying to spin BS.

Then you stoop to calling me Gay for Jay...lol

How come you never mention those stats our ROOKIE QB posted in his first 5 games with a ton of playoff pressure on him?

Spider
02-15-2007, 01:28 PM
Trade Jay Cutler ? not right now anyway ......... he can run the bootleg , Pass from the pocket , not a throw he cant make , tough as nails ......... I guess that makes me Gay for Jay also .........

freak6
02-15-2007, 01:34 PM
OK, let's look at his stats....

Jay lost 3 of his 5 starts He lost them. Jay Cutler lost those games. OK!

His QB rating got progressively worse He had a rating of 62.3 vs Seattle, he shot up to 97.6 vs. SD, he topped out @ 101.7 vs Cards, and then he started declining to 88.9 vs. Cincy, and ended with a 84.1 vs SF.
Man, that is terrible. You got me there. For a rookie, that is terrible.


He was sacked 13 times which is almost 3 times a game....which is odd because you tout his mobility alot., and despite his cat like niumbleness, he sucked at picking up yards when he did run...a mere 18 yards on 12 carries. Brian Griese would be ashamed of those type of numbers. He needs to get rid of the ball, and he'll learn in time that he only has a certain amount of time to look downfield. It's a rookie mistake.

He completed less than 60% of his passes in 2 of his 5 starts. Pathetic.

He threw for 190 or more yards in only 2 of his 5 starts, and had 3 ints returned for TD's.


3 huh...hmmm....

Anyway, do you really think he'll throw another ball from his backside again?

freak6
02-15-2007, 01:48 PM
Had the fifth-highest passer rating of quarterbacks who had at least 125 passes (25.0 per game) from Dec. 1 onward

His 88.5 rating was behind only Indianapolis’ Peyton Manning (102.6), St. Louis’ Marc Bulger (93.4), New Orleans’ Drew Brees (91.8) and New England’s Tom Brady (90.1) …

Cutler’s nine touchdown passes in December were third in the league behind Bulger and Manning, who each fired 10.

If your Gay for Jay raise your hand!

:wave:

Florida_Bronco
02-15-2007, 01:58 PM
Had the fifth-highest passer rating of quarterbacks who had at least 125 passes (25.0 per game) from Dec. 1 onward

His 88.5 rating was behind only Indianapolis’ Peyton Manning (102.6), St. Louis’ Marc Bulger (93.4), New Orleans’ Drew Brees (91.8) and New England’s Tom Brady (90.1) …

Cutler’s nine touchdown passes in December were third in the league behind Bulger and Manning, who each fired 10.

If your Gay for Jay raise your hand!

:wave:

I can't find them anywhere, but maybe someone can pull Manning's stats from his first 5 games and compare them to Cutler's? ???

freak6
02-15-2007, 02:08 PM
He sucked. By the end of the season it was obvious the guy was gonna put up huge numbers because he improved quite a bit though.

Florida_Bronco
02-15-2007, 02:42 PM
He sucked. By the end of the season it was obvious the guy was gonna put up huge numbers because he improved quite a bit though.

Hmm, sounds alot like our situation with Cutler.

listopencil
02-15-2007, 05:53 PM
OK, let's look at his stats....





Hey, errand. Nice to see you around. I've always enjoyed your posts.

Arguing with freak is like working a speed bag. Except the speed bag is smarter.

freak6
02-15-2007, 05:55 PM
Hmm, sounds alot like our situation with Cutler.

Kind of. Peyton started from day one, and thrown into the fire he learned over the 16 games, and the last couple weeks of the season, he had a terrible team putting up big numbers.

Jay only got the 5 starts, but 1/3 of the season should be enough experiance so that he starts out week one alot better than his first start last season. He'll put up big numbers next season.

That pass from his backside really skewed his whole season though. Without that pass, we maybe beat the Seahawks, go to the playoffs, and from there you never know because we had the Colts down at home. But that's how you learn.

azbroncfan
10-26-2009, 11:23 AM
The only people that wouldn't trade him for Manning, Brady, or Palmer are on this message board. Guarantee Shanny would.

Bump. Pretty funny posts on here.

Hulamau
10-26-2009, 11:38 AM
.. the water boy sounds about right :-)

listopencil
10-26-2009, 11:49 AM
I picked Brady by the way.

BroncoDoug
10-26-2009, 12:00 PM
Other: Kyle Orton?

hahahaha pretty much guaranteeing no one had that in this thread...

azbroncfan
10-26-2009, 03:20 PM
It is funny to see how all the Cutler homer's have changed there tune. I can't believe some of you even argued with me that you trade a rookie QB for manning without even thinking about it.