Define Liberal and Conservative

[N.O.Bronco]

I kinda sick of coming onto this board and reading ad hominem attacks, straw man arguments and criticisms that liberalism or conservatism is evil or the mentality that either one is always wrong, with that said I am putting forth a questionarre to everyone on this board. In your own words define what a liberal and a conservative is.

Now i dont want some of you saying liberals are america hating evil commies as ive seen people on this board try and say. I would like to know what ideals make a person liberal/conservative, what policies they believe in and why the heck those two have anything to do with Iraq, and if you say they do what does each side in your mind believe.

There seems to be so much labeling going on in every thread i read and so many times people throw those words around and i think everyone here has a different interpretation. So i would like to settle this so everyone can get on the same page with what each of these viewpoints really are.

[freak6]

Conservatives want small gov't, low taxes, low regulation, and fiscal responsibility. They often forget the enviroment if it gets in the way of thier money, and forget thepoor, unlike thier boy Je'sus 'El Savvviorrrr' Christoooo!!!!! They are often very hypocritacal and have lots of scandals.

Liberals want the gov't to spend money to help out the people, push for funding of schools, push for helping the minorities, push equal rights, and want to save the world from humanity. Liberals are secular in policy as opposed to the conservatives that have been taken over by the Christian Coalition due in large part to the ignorant South.

Neo-cons are fkn morons that do little thinking before taking action as to the consequences of thier actions, they have group think and therefore are radically dangerous to the welfare of our nation, and our world. They pretend to be conservative and pander to the Christian right for money and votes, but they are the greediest SOBs that spend freely while offering tax breaks to thier rich cronies as individuals, and to corporations like the massive one Exxon got. They should be considered armed and dangerous (cheney) and shot on site. jking, but not really.

[Cito Pelon]

Here's a scale:

Far Left(Marxist)<---------Lib--------------Mod--------------Con---------->Far Right(Fascist)

Democrats are in the Liberal-to-Moderate range.
Republicans are in the Conservative-to-Moderate range.

The rest are the nuts that F things up for everybody else.

[Spider]

very fine line between the 2 really .......
let me tell you why I am a democrat ........
I am pro union , I am american workers first and foremost ......I am for the public school systems , I want universal health care .......
I dont mind safety nets , hell I would rather pay for them , then American troops as targets ,
Republicans are the $ first and foremost ..........

[defenseman]

Interesting snapshots of both being put on display by all your takes. I can tell you one other tidbit, both of them try real hard to point the finger at the other. I'm hoping it will end some day. But kinka doubt it will........dman

[W*GS]

Liberals want to use the State as a mace to impose their view of a perfect society on everyone.

Conservatives want to use the State as a mace to impose their view of a perfect society on everyone.

They aren't "opposite ends" of a linear spectrum.

[Spider]

Liberals want to use the State as a mace to impose their view of a perfect society on everyone.

Conservatives want to use the State as a mace to impose their view of a perfect society on everyone.

They aren't "opposite ends" of a linear spectrum.

and anarchist , just dont believe in a mace , they believe the love from their fellow man will dictate good behavior .......... although a certain person here wont leave his wallet at a McDonalds to back his theory ..............;D

[W*GS]

and anarchist , just dont believe in a mace , they believe the love from their fellow man will dictate good behavior .......... although a certain person here wont leave his wallet at a McDonalds to back his theory ..............

I'm not an anarchist - talk to Josh/amesj/clavicula about that.

Suffice to say that the differences between liberals and conservatives are quite small when viewed from the perspective of those of us who are truly interested in a free society in which individual rights are properly protected.

And that drives you social engineers batty.

[Spider]

I'm not an anarchist - talk to Josh/amesj/clavicula about that.
and I dont drive truck , I am a paid tourist with a real ****ty travel agent .....

Suffice to say that the differences between liberals and conservatives are quite small when viewed from the perspective of those of us who are truly interested in a free society in which individual rights are properly protected.

And that drives you social engineers batty.

no not batty , we just understand that in the real world , you have to have laws and structure .........

[W*GS]

we just understand that in the real world , you have to have laws and structure .........

Have I ever said that we didn't need laws? If you can find such a quote from me, I'd like to see it.

The thing that scares you most about genuine freedom is the responsibility that goes along with it.

Chew on that for a while before you fire back some smart-ass remark.

[Spider]

Have I ever said that we didn't need laws? If you can find such a quote from me, I'd like to see it.

The thing that scares you most about genuine freedom is the responsibility that goes along with it.

Chew on that for a while before you fire back some smart-ass remark.

LOL if you say so chief , I wont dig up the quotes , but they was over gun control , you dont have a problem with a felon owning a gun , just sell the gun to anyone , any kind of gun ........
that right there is anarchy...........no nothing scares`me about real freedom , but what does scare me is idiots that think felons should own guns , Most people cant even handle an abortion decision , or alot of people will rob you blind , like I said , if you believe in your stance , leave the wallet at a public place , see how fast your garden of eden , goes into fantasy land ........

[W*GS]

LOL if you say so chief , I wont dig up the quotes , but they was over gun control , you dont have a problem with a felon owning a gun , just sell the gun to anyone , any kind of gun ........

Since you won't (and can't) dig up a quote from that supports your assertion above, you're just being a bald-faced liar. But what else is new?

The rest is just another one of your rambling strawmen...

[Spider]

Since you won't (and can't) dig up a quote from that supports your assertion above, you're just being a bald-faced liar. But what else is new?

The rest is just another one of your rambling strawmen...

so it must be another W*GS that is against Gun control .......... and I am on dial up , so I wont go dig up the quotes ................ PS you can bull**** some of the newbies here , they dont know you , but many others know your stance on gun control ........ But then your stance was so idiotic , I dont blame you from distancing yourself from it ............

[W*GS]

The "I'm on dialup" is the lamest excuse...

When you can figure out how to get criminals to submit to the thousands of laws on the books regarding guns, we'll talk gun control. Until then...

[Spider]

The "I'm on dialup" is the lamest excuse...

When you can figure out how to get criminals to submit to the thousands of laws on the books regarding guns, we'll talk gun control. Until then...

untill then what ?
might be a lame excuse , but it is better then being the one that forgets what he says and needs peoples help to remind him ............ dont feel lonely..I have a disp........err travel agent that is the same way, forgets everything ..... I deal with you people all the time

[alkemical]

Have I ever said that we didn't need laws? If you can find such a quote from me, I'd like to see it.

The thing that scares you most about genuine freedom is the responsibility that goes along with it.

Chew on that for a while before you fire back some smart-ass remark.



It is true, i'm an anarchist. That being said however - I do feel there is a "need" for laws - based upon the fact that most people can't function fully for themselves without being told what to do. My "compromise" (if you will) is the U.S. Constitution.

It's such a shame that people are not able to handle true freedom though.

[enjolras]

Wow it took literally 1 post for this to devolve into exactly the type of conversation that N.O. Bronco was talking about. The whole thing is kind of sad at this point...

Conservatives (even the religious ones) are far from evil, and Democrats (even the religious ones) are far from the America haters they are cast as. What's really sad about this is that Americans have bought into the culture of rivalry and hate that the party leaders use to CONTROL this country. They have people on both sides lining up to throw stones because those conservatives are out to destroy the environment and stuff us all in concentration camps! (Meanwhile those loony democrats are mired in a homosexual conspiracy to kill as many babies as possible while destroying America and replacing it with a communist state).

*sighs*

I can't wait until Americans pull their heads out of their collective asses and actually take this country back. Stop being puppets already.

[alkemical]

it's a choice though, and most don't *want* to do anything about it.

[Spider]

Wow it took literally 1 post for this to devolve into exactly the type of conversation that N.O. Bronco was talking about. The whole thing is kind of sad at this point...

Conservatives (even the religious ones) are far from evil, and Democrats (even the religious ones) are far from the America haters they are cast as. What's really sad about this is that Americans have bought into the culture of rivalry and hate that the party leaders use to CONTROL this country. They have people on both sides lining up to throw stones because those conservatives are out to destroy the environment and stuff us all in concentration camps! (Meanwhile those loony democrats are mired in a homosexual conspiracy to kill as many babies as possible while destroying America and replacing it with a communist state).

*sighs*

I can't wait until Americans pull their heads out of their collective asses and actually take this country back. Stop being puppets already.
ok , so where do we draw the line ? for example I want some form of Gun Control , W*GS doesnt , really have a problem with Felons owning fire arms ,millions feel the way we do , so how do we solve it ?
thats just 1 issue .......... economics is another ........ Trade issues ..........
I know it sounds good take america back , but take it back to where ?

[alkemical]

ok , so where do we draw the line ? for example I want some form of Gun Control , W*GS doesnt , really have a problem with Felons owning fire arms ,millions feel the way we do , so how do we solve it ?
thats just 1 issue .......... economics is another ........ Trade issues ..........
I know it sounds good take america back , but take it back to where ?

Because something is illegal, doesn't mean criminals won't break *another* law.... ;)

[defenseman]

ok , so where do we draw the line ? for example I want some form of Gun Control , W*GS doesnt , really have a problem with Felons owning fire arms ,millions feel the way we do , so how do we solve it ?
thats just 1 issue .......... economics is another ........ Trade issues ..........
I know it sounds good take america back , but take it back to where ?

Raise the penalty for a felon possessing a firearm. 50 years to life might work, no parole. And then freaking enforce it. got to swing the pendulum hard in one direction for it to end up somewhere close to the middle where you want it eventually....dman

[Spider]

Because something is illegal, doesn't mean criminals won't break *another* law.... ;)

So then why lock your doors ? Locks are not 100% fool proof , people still get in ....... why bother ?
;D

[defenseman]

So then why lock your doors ? Locks are not 100% fool proof , people still get in ....... why bother ?
;D

I lock them to make it that more difficult. then again, I as you believe if they want to get into your house, they certianly will find a way if motivated....dman

*then again, If I'm home, it'll be the last home they break into, I can gaurantee you that. they'll be history, once they are identified for what they are.

[Spider]

I lock them to make it that more difficult. then again, I as you believe if they want to get into your house, they certianly will find a way if motivated....dman

*then again, If I'm home, it'll be the last home they break into, I can gaurantee you that. they'll be history, once they are identified for what they are.

Then why not on Gun control ? This attitude of well we cant stop it , might as well do nothing , is worthless .......... put some measures in make it hard for Felons , limit where they can buy firearms ...........
I dont advocate banning of all guns , law abiding citizen should have the right to bear arms , One type of gun I am against is a fully automatic weapon , those should be reserved for the military ..........

[SPfloppy]

Liberal= Educated enough to form opinions based on utopean ideas, but not educated enough to know they won't work in the nation we live in

Conservative= Educated enough to know what's best for all of us because thier priest said so in church last week. Educated enough to know when to use military force, but not educated enough to know when to stop doing so

[Rohirrim]

Liberals = Commie Bastards
Conservatives = Fascist Pigs

[alkemical]

So then why lock your doors ? Locks are not 100% fool proof , people still get in ....... why bother ?
;D

Exactly, why bother.....

[Spider]

Exactly, why bother.....
let me ask you something , I know you will be honest .........
do you believe in private ownership of land ?

[defenseman]

Then why not on Gun control ? This attitude of well we cant stop it , might as well do nothing , is worthless .......... put some measures in make it hard for Felons , limit where they can buy firearms ...........
I dont advocate banning of all guns , law abiding citizen should have the right to bear arms , One type of gun I am against is a fully automatic weapon , those should be reserved for the military ..........

Fully agree with you 100%, it's the wanna be rambos with those weapons that can kill innocent people in a flash, all because they aren't observing proper firearm safety. No need for a fully automatic weapon other than law enforcement/government types..dman

[Spider]

Fully agree with you 100%, it's the wanna be rambos with those weapons that can kill innocent people in a flash, all because they aren't observing proper firearm safety. No need for a fully automatic weapon other than law enforcement/government types..dman

you have Military training , you understand these weapons and what they can do , they are very devastating .......I shot a M-16 ( my Dads back in the late 70's early 80's ) those guns can take down a forest with enough ammo ;D

[defenseman]

Exactly, why bother.....

Why lock them? IF, you don't, some scum bucket walks in and you put a bullet in his brain, the family of the crook sues because you didn't lock your doors, bank on it...you invited him in to his death is what it comes down to, if you had locked your doors, he'd still be alive today. At least, this is the way the ACLU would spin it. I gaurantee it. Lock your doors, that way you have "evidence" someone tried to break in, they were successful, and were identified as a threat, and you protecting your family removed the threat from the face of the earth. That will work out in your favor in court, the other may not.....dman

*then again, if you shoot, shoot to kill. the perpratraitor cannot be allowed to survive.

[Spider]

Why lock them? IF, you don't, some scum bucket walks in and you put a bullet in his brain, the family of the crook sues because you didn't lock your doors, bank on it...you invited him in to his death is what it comes down to, if you had locked your doors, he'd still be alive today. At least, this is the way the ACLU would spin it. I gaurantee it. Lock your doors, that way you have "evidence" someone tried to break in, they were successful, and were identified as a threat, and you protecting your family removed the threat from the face of the earth. That will work out in your favor in court, the other may not.....dman

*then again, if you shoot, shoot to kill. the perpratraitor cannot be allowed to survive.

I have a dog ;D
but the main reason I dont have fire arms is my Kids , though i did buy my son a BB gun , been very responsible with it , I said when my 5 year old turns 12 , I will have guns again , but the triplets happened so , I wont get guns for awhile ;D

[defenseman]

I have a dog ;D
but the main reason I dont have fire arms is my Kids , though i did buy my son a BB gun , been very responsible with it , I said when my 5 year old turns 12 , I will have guns again , but the triplets happened so , I wont get guns for awhile ;D

two shotguns and a beretta. Mine are older and know how to handle weapons, in addition "when" you handle weapons. Bottom line, someone breaks in and makes the mistake of announcing themselves , they'll be dealt with "properly", and the phone call gets made while the break-in is in progress, not before. Hate to have to shoot them on the lawn and drag them inside. Lots of explaining to do then. the mess can be cleaned up later.....dman

[Garcia Bronco]

Extremists are extremists. The fundamental philsophy of liberalism isn't bad...nor is conservatism...but there must be balance. Most people are liberal on some things and conservative on others. What we must be keen about for the common good is to seperate that which would serve everyone from our own self-interests. Easier sadi than done.

[Garcia Bronco]

Liberals want to use the State as a mace to impose their view of a perfect society on everyone.

Conservatives want to use the State as a mace to impose their view of a perfect society on everyone.

They aren't "opposite ends" of a linear spectrum.

Very good observation IMO

[enjolras]

ok , so where do we draw the line ? for example I want some form of Gun Control , W*GS doesnt , really have a problem with Felons owning fire arms ,millions feel the way we do , so how do we solve it ?
thats just 1 issue .......... economics is another ........ Trade issues ..........
I know it sounds good take america back , but take it back to where ?

I'm not advocating conformity or agreement, I'm advocating civility. The greatness of America has long been its status as the 'marketplace of ideas.' We are strong precisely because we represent one of the most ethnically and ideologically diverse nations on the planet. In the past we've channeled those differences to evolve a ever better system of government that represents the needs of most of its citizens. The triumph of civil rights is one such occasion in which a nation divided by ideology was able to right a great wrong primarily through discourse with (relatively) little violence.

I do not beleive that we are capable of such great things today. Not because we aren't as dedicated, as smart, or as capable. Instead we are mired by a complete inability to even listen to what anyone else is saying. Our politicians, with their ever sophisticated marketing and polling methods, have found that the best way to keep themselves in power is to build up a ideological wall around their constituents and we have lapped it up.

We've become a nation that thrives on petty division. It's not enough to disagree. We have to hate. Instead of seeing the millions of shades of grey inherent in almost any disagreement, we paint in black and white. Being opposed to Kyoto clearly means that you advocate the destruction of earth. Being pro-choice clearly means you want to murder babies. Opposing the war in Iraq means that one is a weak willed anti-American wuss. However, supporting the war clearly means that you are a war-mongering bully desperate for the chance to kill anyone different than you.

In reality there are very reasonable and moral reasons one might find themselves on one or the other side of an issue. We've lost the ability to see that. Instead our politicians have invented political 'teams' for us to play on. They've given mascots, slogans, chants, and uniforms. They've turned politics from the betterment of our society into a rivalry in which we win or lose based not on our collective prosperity, but rather ballot counts that are often only a few thousand citizens apart.

And if your side doesn't win you are trained to hate whoever did. Instead of looking for common ground we actively seek out anything and everything that makes us different. We delight in being able to smugly and proudly tell everyone "well I didn't vote for that guy" (conveniently forgetting that we as a collective people bear responsibility for our collective decisions).

In short, we are a nation that can not have an effective government because we're collectively to stubborn to even listen to what anyone else has to say. Instead of being a marketplace of ideas, we've become more like a carnival of ideas in which everyone is shouting, but no-one is being heard.

[Garcia Bronco]

The "I'm on dialup" is the lamest excuse...

When you can figure out how to get criminals to submit to the thousands of laws on the books regarding guns, we'll talk gun control. Until then...

All gun control does is take guns out of the hands of the lawbiding...while the law breakers continue to break laws.

[alkemical]

let me ask you something , I know you will be honest .........
do you believe in private ownership of land ?

I do. But give me an example of where there is any real ownership of land.

[alkemical]

Why lock them? IF, you don't, some scum bucket walks in and you put a bullet in his brain, the family of the crook sues because you didn't lock your doors, bank on it...you invited him in to his death is what it comes down to, if you had locked your doors, he'd still be alive today. At least, this is the way the ACLU would spin it. I gaurantee it. Lock your doors, that way you have "evidence" someone tried to break in, they were successful, and were identified as a threat, and you protecting your family removed the threat from the face of the earth. That will work out in your favor in court, the other may not.....dman

*then again, if you shoot, shoot to kill. the perpratraitor cannot be allowed to survive.

Yeah but if "they" cut their arm when breaking glass, i'm still liable. ;)

[defenseman]

I do. But give me an example of where there is any real ownership of land.

I own 35 acres of land, in colorado out right. Deed, lock stock and barrel. Next question..dman

[Spider]

All gun control does is take guns out of the hands of the lawbiding...while the law breakers continue to break laws.

so then dont lock your doors . after all locks only stop honest people ...........

[alkemical]

I own 35 acres of land, in colorado out right. Deed, lock stock and barrel. Next question..dman

What happens if you don't pay the taxes, or if emminent domain is ruled?

[defenseman]

Yeah but if "they" cut their arm when breaking glass, i'm still liable. ;)

Hard to get sued by them, ;) if they are dead...dman

[Spider]

I'm not advocating conformity or agreement, I'm advocating civility. The greatness of America has long been its status as the 'marketplace of ideas.' We are strong precisely because we represent one of the most ethnically and ideologically diverse nations on the planet. In the past we've channeled those differences to evolve a ever better system of government that represents the needs of most of its citizens. The triumph of civil rights is one such occasion in which a nation divided by ideology was able to right a great wrong primarily through discourse with (relatively) little violence.

I do not beleive that we are capable of such great things today. Not because we aren't as dedicated, as smart, or as capable. Instead we are mired by a complete inability to even listen to what anyone else is saying. Our politicians, with their ever sophisticated marketing and polling methods, have found that the best way to keep themselves in power is to build up a ideological wall around their constituents and we have lapped it up.

We've become a nation that thrives on petty division. It's not enough to disagree. We have to hate. Instead of seeing the millions of shades of grey inherent in almost any disagreement, we paint in black and white. Being opposed to Kyoto clearly means that you advocate the destruction of earth. Being pro-choice clearly means you want to murder babies. Opposing the war in Iraq means that one is a weak willed anti-American wuss. However, supporting the war clearly means that you are a war-mongering bully desperate for the chance to kill anyone different than you.

In reality there are very reasonable and moral reasons one might find themselves on one or the other side of an issue. We've lost the ability to see that. Instead our politicians have invented political 'teams' for us to play on. They've given mascots, slogans, chants, and uniforms. They've turned politics from the betterment of our society into a rivalry in which we win or lose based not on our collective prosperity, but rather ballot counts that are often only a few thousand citizens apart.

And if your side doesn't win you are trained to hate whoever did. Instead of looking for common ground we actively seek out anything and everything that makes us different. We delight in being able to smugly and proudly tell everyone "well I didn't vote for that guy" (conveniently forgetting that we as a collective people bear responsibility for our collective decisions).

In short, we are a nation that can not have an effective government because we're collectively to stubborn to even listen to what anyone else has to say. Instead of being a marketplace of ideas, we've become more like a carnival of ideas in which everyone is shouting, but no-one is being heard.
petty to some is pretty important to others , Politic strife has always been around since we became a country , this arguing and bikering has been around a long time , even led to civil war ..........
the greatness of this country was on displayon 9-11 and with Katrina .......

[alkemical]

so then dont lock your doors . after all locks only stop honest people ...........



I wonder why they are called "Break ins" then??????

[alkemical]

Hard to get sued by them, ;) if they are dead...dman

But then you are back to being sued for them being dead.... (your original point)

[Spider]

I wonder why they are called "Break ins" then??????

you lost me here ......shoot low sheriff I am on a Shetland pony here

[defenseman]

But then you are back to being sued for them being dead.... (your original point)

Not if they make it into the house. If they don't make it into the house, you don't blow their head off. If they do, you accomodate them properly. A man's castle and family is his, not some freaking criminal's. He get's in, he writes his obituary.....dman

*broken glass and such, is evidence of foul play. You need nothing more.

[alkemical]

you lost me here ......shoot low sheriff I am on a Shetland pony here

Well they wouldn't be "walk ins".....

[Spider]

Well they wouldn't be "walk ins".....

Honest people would be

[alkemical]

Not if they make it into the house. If they don't make it into the house, you don't blow their head off. If they do, you accomodate them properly. A man's castle and family is his, not some freaking criminal's. He get's in, he writes his obituary.....dman

*broken glass and such, is evidence of foul play. You need nothing more.


Well according to the Shetland County Sheriff, if it's illegal the criminals won't do it. Yet i'm trying to figure out the differrence between law-abiding citizens & "criminal".

[Garcia Bronco]

so then dont lock your doors . after all locks only stop honest people ...........

Yeah...a 45 stops everybody...Make my day.

[alkemical]

Honest people would be

So tell me again what is a criminal, and tell me again why making an additional law would mean a criminal would follow it.

It's like asking a masked man, whom he is.....

[Garcia Bronco]

Speaking of Make My Day....

They are trying to add cars to the Make My Day Colorado law.....So if they try to jack your car....you're all good to use deadly force. An armed society is a polite one

[alkemical]

Speaking of Make My Day....

They are trying to add cars to the Make My Day Colorado law.....So if they try to jack your car....you're all good to use deadly force. An armed society is a polite one

Is "insert bad neighborhood here* a polite one? ;)

[defenseman]

Speaking of Make My Day....

They are trying to add cars to the Make My Day Colorado law.....So if they try to jack your car....you're all good to use deadly force. An armed society is a polite one

I don't know what to think of this. You can carry concealed weapons here in nebraska if you meet the right wickets. However, I'm thinking the gangbangers will use this one to their advantage. Have to think about this one..dman

[Spider]

Yeah...a 45 stops everybody...Make my day.

when was `the last time you dropped a hammer on someone , or watched someone die? talk is cheap .....alot of people freeze at the moment of truth ...

[Spider]

So tell me again what is a criminal, and tell me again why making an additional law would mean a criminal would follow it.

It's like asking a masked man, whom he is.....

LOL , you went off track ....... I dont expect a criminal to follow the law , what I do expect is the law to stop these people ..........I dont know where you guys keep getting the notion I expect criminals to follow the law ...........

[Spider]

Speaking of Make My Day....

They are trying to add cars to the Make My Day Colorado law.....So if they try to jack your car....you're all good to use deadly force. An armed society is a polite one

LOL I doubt you have ever been in a serious confrontation.......wake up in a cold sweat when you are dreaming and remember the face of the person you hurt ....Defend your property by any means you have to , but being caviler about it...........well let me put this way , I hope you are never in a position where you have to experience violence of this extreme ........ it stays with you for ever , even when you are in the right .........

[Garcia Bronco]

LOL I doubt you have ever been in a serious confrontation.......wake up in a cold sweat when you are dreaming and remember the face of the person you hurt ....Defend your property by any means you have to , but being caviler about it...........well let me put this way , I hope you are never in a position where you have to experience violence of this extreme ........ it stays with you for ever , even when you are in the right .........

I have had a gun pointed in my face and a member of my party kidnapped at gun point. Even if I had a gun at that moment I wouldn't have been able to do anything. I have a moral flexiabilty that allows me...at times to not care about others and their well being...especially those that were trying to hurt me or my people to begin with. So in short...****'em

[alkemical]

LOL , you went off track ....... I dont expect a criminal to follow the law , what I do expect is the law to stop these people ..........I dont know where you guys keep getting the notion I expect criminals to follow the law ...........

If someone doesn't obey the law, how is the law going to stop them?

[Spider]

I have had a gun pointed in my face and a member of my party kidnapped at gun point. Even if I had a gun at that moment I wouldn't have been able to do anything. I have a moral flexiabilty that allows me...at times to not care about others and their well being...especially those that were trying to hurt me or my people to begin with. So in short...****'em

well if that was the case , the person never would have been kidnapped .........

[defenseman]

LOL I doubt you have ever been in a serious confrontation.......wake up in a cold sweat when you are dreaming and remember the face of the person you hurt ....Defend your property by any means you have to , but being caviler about it...........well let me put this way , I hope you are never in a position where you have to experience violence of this extreme ........ it stays with you for ever , even when you are in the right .........

Yep, it does...dman

[Garcia Bronco]

well if that was the case , the person never would have been kidnapped .........

I don't understand what you mean? I told you I did not have a fire arm at the time and even if I did...a shoot out would have only caused loss of life. There is a time to be smart about it. It's not about wanting to shoot somebody or being a Wahoo....it's about defending yours and your own life.

[Spider]

I don't understand what you mean? I told you I did not have a fire arm at the time and even if I did...a shoot out would have only caused loss of life. There is a time to be smart about it. It's not about wanting to shoot somebody or being a Wahoo....it's about defending yours and your own life.

who said you need a firearm ? I faced a guy without a firearm he had a .38 .....
all I had was brass knuckles .........before you ask it was over a woman ......

[Garcia Bronco]

who said you need a firearm ? I faced a guy without a firearm he had a .38 .....
all I had was brass knuckles .........before you ask it was over a woman ......

Well I am glad you are alive to tell about it. It's not TJ Hooker out there. I don't care how dumb a Mfreaker is....putting a hole in a man ain't hard, and it's not like a TV show. And by God if you pull a gun you better be prepared to use it.

[Spider]

Well I am glad you are alive to tell about it. It's not TJ Hooker out there. I don't care how dumb a Mfreaker is....putting a hole in a man ain't hard, and it's not like a TV show. And by God if you pull a gun you better be prepared to use it.

well I was raised alot different then most people , where violence was as normal mom and apple pie , I watched my Dad get shot , a good friend name Mark ....and putting a hole in a man is pretty hard , you may not regret it at the time , but futher down the road it will haunt you , I love knives , I dont carry a knife , cause I know`I will use it ............

[55CrushEm]

Well I am glad you are alive to tell about it. It's not TJ Hooker out there. I don't care how dumb a Mfreaker is....putting a hole in a man ain't hard, and it's not like a TV show. And by God if you pull a gun you better be prepared to use it.

When I was 20, I was home on Christmas break from college, and was having a party at my house (parents were away)....I had hooked up with the girlfriend of a kid from my rival high school.....

So me and a bunch of people were having fun at my house, when I hear the front door open (no knock, just being opened).......it was this kid and about 7 of his friends.

Well, confronting someone in public is one thing.....but for this kid to barge right into my own house to fight me ? Needless to say, I was enraged......I went to the closet, grabbed my dad's pistol, and pointed it at him.....told him he'd better get the **** out immediately.

He was drunk and hesitated a minute.....but a couple of his sober friends did the quickest about face I've ever seen.

Don't think I would have shot him if he lunged at me......probably would have pistol whipped him, though.

[Garcia Bronco]

When I was 20, I was home on Christmas break from college, and was having a party at my house (parents were away)....I had hooked up with the girlfriend of a kid from my rival high school.....

So me and a bunch of people were having fun at my house, when I hear the front door open (no knock, just being opened).......it was this kid and about 7 of his friends.

Well, confronting someone in public is one thing.....but for this kid to barge right into my own house to fight me ? Needless to say, I was enraged......I went to the closet, grabbed my dad's pistol, and pointed it at him.....told him he'd better get the **** out immediately.

He was drunk and hesitated a minute.....but a couple of his sober friends did the quickest about face I've ever seen.

Don't think I would have shot him if he lunged at me......probably would have pistol whipped him, though.

Good on you. I was 20 when my story happened. Ours wasn't as cool though....we were buying a big bag of dope. There were 4 of us in the car. The 4th guy we picked up on the way was in on it. I had heard the two guys that robbed us were "dealt" with, but I don't really know. I was going to NOLA the next day for the Texas vs Virginia Tech 1995 Sugar Bowl.

[55CrushEm]

Good on you. I was 20 when my story happened. Ours wasn't as cool though....we were buying a big bag of dope. There were 4 of us in the car. The 4th guy we picked up on the way was in on it. I had heard the two guys that robbed us were "dealt" with, but I don't really know. I was going to NOLA the next day for the Texas vs Virginia Tech 1995 Sugar Bowl.

LOL

Just sounded funny......"a big bag of dope"......:D

[Spider]

If someone doesn't obey the law, how is the law going to stop them?

the same way they do now .........oh wait , we create a crime fighting unit like in that Tom cruise show , where he is a cop that works with physics , yeah thats it , then once caught of committing a crime we can dye their thumps blue .................. will that work ?

[alkemical]

the same way they do now .........oh wait , we create a crime fighting unit like in that Tom cruise show , where he is a cop that works with physics , yeah thats it , then once caught of committing a crime we can dye their thumps blue .................. will that work ?

What i'm trying to get at Spider - is that a reactive solution is only that - a reaction. You need to find a "proactive" solution to stem the tide on a more or less "permanant" basis.

[Spider]

What i'm trying to get at Spider - is that a reactive solution is only that - a reaction. You need to find a "proactive" solution to stem the tide on a more or less "permanant" basis.

but see i dont see it as impossible to stop Fully Automatic weapons getting into the wrong hands ........ These Weapons are serious ,remember that bank robbery a few years back ?
cops were out gunned , took alot of people out in matter of minutes ........I know you cant stop em all , but require a person to have an ID and do background checks , some prevention is better then nothing .......

[alkemical]

but see i dont see it as impossible to stop Fully Automatic weapons getting into the wrong hands ........ These Weapons are serious ,remember that bank robbery a few years back ?
cops were out gunned , took alot of people out in matter of minutes ........I know you cant stop em all , but require a person to have an ID and do background checks , some prevention is better then nothing .......



Spider, if the market wasn't there - there'd be no use for the product. (unless you are really good at marketing, and creating the market.)

[Spider]

Spider, if the market wasn't there - there'd be no use for the product. (unless you are really good at marketing, and creating the market.)

plenty of use for the product ......... Military , but greed drives the private sector

[alkemical]

plenty of use for the product ......... Military , but greed drives the private sector


Dude, it's people wanting to kill people. nothing to do with any sector other than that.

[Spider]

Dude, it's people wanting to kill people. nothing to do with any sector other than that.

I see . so these people just hand out Fully automatic weapons free of charge ...........

[alkemical]

I see . so these people just hand out Fully automatic weapons free of charge ...........

Spider, you are testing my paitence today. My apologies if i come across like an asshole:

Where did i say that, eh? Look if it's supply and demand, people are demanding automatic weapons, thus the market supplies. Remove the demand.

[Spider]

Spider, you are testing my paitence today. My apologies if i come across like an a-hole:

Where did i say that, eh? Look if it's supply and demand, people are demanding automatic weapons, thus the market supplies. Remove the demand.

where i was going is , Greed motivates the people that sell these guns .......and I really dont care if 2 guys take to killing each other , mutual combat as far as I am concerned , but dont take innocent people with them ......... these fully automatic weapons can take alot of People in seconds