Manning twice the QB that Brady is

[TheReverend]

...and deep down everyone knows it and has known it for a long time.

I'm just sick of all the bashing. Sore losers. I hate seeing Denver get thrashed by him too, but respect the talent and effort of who will probably go down in the NFL annals as the greatest QB to ever play the game.

Peyton Manning will hold nearly all the QB records by the time he hangs up his cleats. More importantly, he puts more effort into his preparation and film work than anyone I've ever seen, and is a consumate professional win or lose.

"But Brady won 3 superbowls!" <----If you give Peyton Manning that defense, special teams and Bill Belicek, they would've won every superbowl since the Duke retired.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Brady, or Palmer, or any other "great" QBs of our time, but it's PEYTON MANNING that is the bench mark that Jay Cutler should be striving for. If he can manisfest into a talent like that, the future is amazingly bright in Denver.

[GonzoLays]

...and deep down everyone knows it and has known it for a long time.

I'm just sick of all the bashing. Sore losers. I hate seeing Denver get thrashed by him too, but respect the talent and effort of who will probably go down in the NFL annals as the greatest QB to ever play the game.

Peyton Manning will hold nearly all the QB records by the time he hangs up his cleats. More importantly, he puts more effort into his preparation and film work than anyone I've ever seen, and is a consumate professional win or lose.

"But Brady won 3 superbowls!" <----If you give Peyton Manning that defense, special teams and Bill Belicek, they would've won every superbowl since the Duke retired.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Brady, or Palmer, or any other "great" QBs of our time, but it's PEYTON MANNING that is the bench mark that Jay Cutler should be striving for. If he can manisfest into a talent like that, the future is amazingly bright in Denver.

Hear, hear!!

Somewhere, -Slap- is cutting himself.

[Willynowei]

Manning is one of the hardest working QBs, yes. He is a great football player, yes. I also think he deserves every bit of praise, due to all the hard work he's put into it.

With that said, I doubt he would've won three superbowls if he and Tom switched places. As great as Manning is, he has a tough time making plays when his O-line is playing poorly, he's just not as mobile as Brady.

[TheReverend]

Manning is one of the hardest working QBs, yes. He is a great football player, yes. I also think he deserves every bit of praise, due to all the hard work he's put into it.

With that said, I doubt he would've won three superbowls if he and Tom switched places. As great as Manning is, he has a tough time making plays when his O-line is playing poorly, he's just not as mobile as Brady.

Yet at the same time it always seems Brady falls ass first into his wins by an amazing Tedy Bruschi play or Adam Vinatieri kick or tuck rule, etc. Brady's good, and insanely lucky... but Brady is no Peyton Manning.

[Mountain Bronco]

Go pimp Manning you fluffer. Fact is he hasn't won 3 super bowls, hasn't been a two time super bowl MVP etc... I don't think he is liked by his teamates (see him sitting with hands in his head ALONE on the bench constantly). He is a great hard working QB, but so are others, most notably, Tom Brady, so lets not get to carried away before he actually wins the SB.

[Killericon]

Twice the Quarterback? I don't know about that.

Being a Quarterback is about mroe than throwing the ball. It's about leadership. Until last night, I thought that there was no comparison between the two in that category. Besides, Brady can throw a hell of a mean ball.

If Manning Wins, he'll be the best in the league(Maybe Top 3 all-time) in my books.

[GonzoLays]

Manning is one of the hardest working QBs, yes. He is a great football player, yes. I also think he deserves every bit of praise, due to all the hard work he's put into it.

With that said, I doubt he would've won three superbowls if he and Tom switched places. As great as Manning is, he has a tough time making plays when his O-line is playing poorly, he's just not as mobile as Brady.

You are stretching, Willnowei. You probably have an agenda considering you started the "Patriots are not doing anything special, MANNING CHOKES" thread yesterday during the 1st half of the game. I understand you have to save face, but c'mon on now. Let it go.

[TheReverend]

Go pimp Manning you fluffer. Fact is he hasn't won 3 super bowls, hasn't been a two time super bowl MVP etc... I don't think he is liked by his teamates (see him sitting with hands in his head ALONE on the bench constantly). He is a great hard working QB, but so are others, most notably, Tom Brady, so lets not get to carried away before he actually wins the SB.

Thought I already made the point about the SB argument... your comprehension must be worse than your argument.

[TheReverend]

Twice the Quarterback? I don't know about that.

Being a Quarterback is about mroe than throwing the ball. It's about leadership. Until last night, I thought that there was no comparison between the two in that category. Besides, Brady can throw a hell of a mean ball.

If Manning Wins, he'll be the best in the league(Maybe Top 3 all-time) in my books.

Do you consider Manning responsible for leading the defense and special teams? I consider him the team leader inspirationally, but responsible for the offenses production... I think the record/stat books reflect he's been a phenomenal leader.

[GonzoLays]

Go pimp Manning you fluffer. Fact is he hasn't won 3 super bowls, hasn't been a two time super bowl MVP etc... I don't think he is liked by his teamates (see him sitting with hands in his head ALONE on the bench constantly). He is a great hard working QB, but so are others, most notably, Tom Brady, so lets not get to carried away before he actually wins the SB.

You got a lot of nerve to call someone a fluffer when you are simultaneously blowing Tom Brady.

Let's be real here.

[Killericon]

Do you consider Manning responsible for leading the defense and special teams? I consider him the team leader inspirationally, but responsible for the offenses production... I think the record/stat books reflect he's been a phenomenal leader.

Manning always stepped up on the field, but never off it. That was more my point.

[TheReverend]

Manning always stepped up on the field, but never off it. That was more my point.

Please explain. I think setting an example of learning every single detail of his opposition is an amazing display of leadership. His postgame interviews where he shared blame as a team instead of pointing fingers, ESPECIALLY in the situations his defense has put him in would test Jesus's patience. Was he peddling crack off the field? Punching babies?

[Rohirrim]

Perhaps some mod who is also a Bronco's fan (are there any left here?) can take all these Payaton love threads, congeal them into a single mass, and move them to some forum off the main board. I mean, given that Payaton has just about become the arch-enemy of the Broncos over the last five years or so, doesn't anybody else find this sort of odd?

[footstepsfrom#27]

More Brady hate...what an idiotic thread...Brady isn't yet 30 and has 3 titles...do you think Manning gets 6? Let's see if he's even the winner this time around...he's got 1 TD and 6 picks so far in this post season...even Jake would hate those numbers, and he can only dream of Peyton's weapons.

[TheReverend]

Perhaps some mod who is also a Bronco's fan (are there any left here?) can take all these Payaton love threads, congeal them into a single mass, and move them to some forum off the main board. I mean, given that Payaton has just about become the arch-enemy of the Broncos over the last five years or so, doesn't anybody else find this sort of odd?

So sorry a thread showing respect to a great football player might bump the discussion about the penthouse advertisement or two african american coaches in the superbowl from the front page during the Broncos off-season.

[TheReverend]

More Brady hate...what an idiotic thread...Brady isn't yet 30 and has 3 titles...do you think Manning gets 6? Let's see if he's even the winner this time around...he's got 1 TD and 6 picks so far in this post season...even Jake would hate those numbers, and he can only dream of Peyton's weapons.

Please refer to posts #1 and #8 and please make an attempt at a viable argument.

[cutthemdown]

Perhaps some mod who is also a Bronco's fan (are there any left here?) can take all these peyton love threads, congeal them into a single mass, and move them to some forum off the main board. I mean, given that peyton has just about become the arch-enemy of the Broncos over the last five years or so, doesn't anybody else find this sort of odd?

Bad news is Manning is in the Superbowl. Good news is Pats aren't and we hopefully get to see Bears beat them. I wouldn't count on it though. But I know what you mean this board doesn't really like it when you say things like I'd like to see Manning carted of the field so messed up his Dad will cry when they see what has been done to him.

[Florida_Bronco]

Manning is good, but when it comes right down to it I'd much rather have Brady leading my team. Manning has alot of talent around him on offense, and I don't see him as the type of player that can put a team on his back and carry it. He also has a history of choking when the defense puts pressure on him, which goes all the way back to his College days when Nebraska abused him all day in the national title game.

[brian85in]

Yet at the same time it always seems Brady falls ass first into his wins by an amazing Tedy Bruschi play or Adam Vinatieri kick or tuck rule, etc. Brady's good, and insanely lucky... but Brady is no Peyton Manning.

agreed--or by Marlon Mcree intercepting him on 4th down and then fumbling the interception! Brady is an elite QB no doubt, but just as if Elway would have been on the niners instead of the broncos in the 1980's , if you put manning on a team with a defense and ST unit the likes of NE, NE has AT LEAST 3 SB's.

[sirhcyennek81]

Both QB's are good. I dont necesarily like either one, and I hope the Bears win the SB, but Manning does put up alot of stats...indoors 9 games a year, more if he goes to NO or Minnesota or Arizona or Dallas.


:Broncos:

[-Slap-]

The hilarious thing is if Manning doesn't beat the underdogs from Chicago, King Kong climbs right up onto his back again bigger than ever.

[Rohirrim]

So sorry a thread showing respect to a great football player might bump the discussion about the penthouse advertisement or two african american coaches in the superbowl from the front page during the Broncos off-season.

If you look on the front page, you will find directions to an Indy Colts message board where I'm sure your adoration of the prima donna Payaton would be welcomed. Frankly, I'd rather talk about what is the best hot dog in the United States. Personally, I think it's the Dodger Dog. I have never had a better dog anywhere else in the U.S.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Please refer to posts #1 and #8 and please make an attempt at a viable argument.
Sorry...I would have responded to those arguments but they were to stupid to merit a response. The best you've seen huh? Well that carries a lot of weight since you became a legal adult about the time Peyton Manning entered the NFL, so you've obviously seen quite a bit of NFL QB's and must know what you're talking about. ROFL! ROFL!

If Brady had Manning's weapons he'd already own a couple more Lombardis. Brady as it is has a shot to retire with more Superbowl hardware than any QB in NFL history. Manning may not even win one...let's see if he solves Chicago's defense before you start giving him the HOF.

Frankly I don't think he could carry Elways jock strap in a paper sack.

[Tom A Hawk]

...and deep down everyone knows it and has known it for a long time.

I'm just sick of all the bashing. Sore losers. I hate seeing Denver get thrashed by him too, but respect the talent and effort of who will probably go down in the NFL annals as the greatest QB to ever play the game.

Peyton Manning will hold nearly all the QB records by the time he hangs up his cleats. More importantly, he puts more effort into his preparation and film work than anyone I've ever seen, and is a consumate professional win or lose.

"But Brady won 3 superbowls!" <----If you give Peyton Manning that defense, special teams and Bill Belicek, they would've won every superbowl since the Duke retired.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Brady, or Palmer, or any other "great" QBs of our time, but it's PEYTON MANNING that is the bench mark that Jay Cutler should be striving for. If he can manisfest into a talent like that, the future is amazingly bright in Denver.

Before Cutler aspires to be the next Peyton I believe he will have to aspire in the following order:
1) Bob Griese then 2) Plummer then 3)Elway then 4) Brady then 5) Manning.

[Florida_Bronco]

agreed--or by Marlon Mcree intercepting him on 4th down and then fumbling the interception! Brady is an elite QB no doubt, but just as if Elway would have been on the niners instead of the broncos in the 1980's , if you put manning on a team with a defense and ST unit the likes of NE, NE has AT LEAST 3 SB's.

What if you put Brady on that high powered Colts offense? Who's to say that he wouldn't do better than Manning?

[-Slap-]

Is there anybody so frigging stupid they believe Peyton Manning could have reached the AFC Championship Game with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney at wide receiver?

ROFL!

[Steve Sewell]

...and deep down everyone knows it and has known it for a long time.

I'm just sick of all the bashing. Sore losers. I hate seeing Denver get thrashed by him too, but respect the talent and effort of who will probably go down in the NFL annals as the greatest QB to ever play the game.

Peyton Manning will hold nearly all the QB records by the time he hangs up his cleats. More importantly, he puts more effort into his preparation and film work than anyone I've ever seen, and is a consumate professional win or lose.

"But Brady won 3 superbowls!" <----If you give Peyton Manning that defense, special teams and Bill Belicek, they would've won every superbowl since the Duke retired.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Brady, or Palmer, or any other "great" QBs of our time, but it's PEYTON MANNING that is the bench mark that Jay Cutler should be striving for. If he can manisfest into a talent like that, the future is amazingly bright in Denver.

Question: Would this post have been made if the outcome of yesterday's game had been different? LMFAO at all the Monday Morning QB's that show up here every...Monday?...and make comments about stuff "they knew all along" after a result that favors their argument.

[Florida_Bronco]

Is there anybody so frigging stupid they believe Peyton Manning could have reached the AFC Championship Game with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney at wide receiver?

ROFL!

I don't think he would have made it to the playoffs with those scrubs.

[Sassy]

Peyton Manning will hold nearly all the QB records by the time he hangs up his cleats. More importantly, he puts more effort into his preparation and film work than anyone I've ever seen, and is a consumate professional win or lose.


How do you KNOW this...are you in the lockerroom or at practice with him every day? I'm not sure on the "consumate professional" part...he's had his tantrum on the sidelines with both team mates and coaches. I wouldn't call that professional or classy. I'll say the same for Tom Brady.

[Rohirrim]

Before Cutler aspires to be the next Peyton I believe he will have to aspire in the following order:
1) Bob Griese then 2) Plummer then 3)Elway then 4) Brady then 5) Manning.

I nominate this post as Gag of the Year. I needed a f****** Heimlich after reading this.

[Steve Sewell]

The hilarious thing is if Manning doesn't beat the underdogs from Chicago, King Kong climbs right up onto his back again bigger than ever.

No, it will simply relegate him to "this generation's Dan Marino" status once again. Heck, after 1990 or so, pretty much everyone knew that Marino had no shot at a title for the rest of his career. I hardly even worried about him and the Dolphins from that point forward.

[Steve Sewell]

Is there anybody so frigging stupid they believe Peyton Manning could have reached the AFC Championship Game with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney at wide receiver?

ROFL!

Yes...just read post #1!

[Steve Sewell]

I nominate this post as Gag of the Year. I needed a ******* Heimlich after reading this.

Yes I agree. This Chump fan knows what he's doing.

[Taco John]

I don't understand why it turns into an either/or proposition between Manning and Brady. They're both great quarterbacks. Brady has the rings, and without one Manning is going to be Marino II. Being a quarterback is about winning championships at the end of the day.

Peyton Manning isn't out of the woods yet. He deserves a lot of credit for rallying his team back, but it won't mean anything at all if he doesn't bring a trophy home to Indy.

[Taco John]

No, it will simply relegate him to "this generation's Dan Marino" status once again. Heck, after 1990 or so, pretty much everyone knew that Marino had no shot at a title for the rest of his career. I hardly even worried about him and the Dolphins from that point forward.

Don Shula coached way past his prime. Way too many of Marino's good years were wasted on that guy.

[bronco militia]

Is there anybody so frigging stupid they believe Peyton Manning could have reached the AFC Championship Game with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney at wide receiver?

ROFL!

anything is possible when you draw the Jets in the 1st round and Marty Schottenheimer in the 2nd

;D

[NaptownChief]

Is there anybody so frigging stupid they believe Peyton Manning could have reached the AFC Championship Game with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney at wide receiver?

ROFL!



Speaking of Caldwell...Is his eyes always that big or was the dude wired up on something last night? I don't ever remember seeing eyes like that before.

[sonsofkraftybob]

...and deep down everyone knows it and has known it for a long time.

I'm just sick of all the bashing. Sore losers. I hate seeing Denver get thrashed by him too, but respect the talent and effort of who will probably go down in the NFL annals as the greatest QB to ever play the game.

Peyton Manning will hold nearly all the QB records by the time he hangs up his cleats. More importantly, he puts more effort into his preparation and film work than anyone I've ever seen, and is a consumate professional win or lose.

"But Brady won 3 superbowls!" <----If you give Peyton Manning that defense, special teams and Bill Belicek, they would've won every superbowl since the Duke retired.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Brady, or Palmer, or any other "great" QBs of our time, but it's PEYTON MANNING that is the bench mark that Jay Cutler should be striving for. If he can manisfest into a talent like that, the future is amazingly bright in Denver.

LOL.

If Caldwell holds onto the ball in the endzone or the refs throw the flag when he got abused in the endzone it's....

Brady 4

Manning 0

Don't get carried away boy.

[jonny1]

Speaking of Caldwell...Is his eyes always that big or was the dude wired up on something last night? I don't ever remember seeing eyes like that before.

You know, I wondered the same thing, it just did not look natural.

[bronco militia]

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0607/gallery.afcnew/images/71213760_10.jpghttp://www.nfl.com.mx/imagerepository/caldwell_reche2.jpg

Caldwell looks like that all the time

[Northman]

...and deep down everyone knows it and has known it for a long time.

I'm just sick of all the bashing. Sore losers. I hate seeing Denver get thrashed by him too, but respect the talent and effort of who will probably go down in the NFL annals as the greatest QB to ever play the game.

Peyton Manning will hold nearly all the QB records by the time he hangs up his cleats. More importantly, he puts more effort into his preparation and film work than anyone I've ever seen, and is a consumate professional win or lose.

"But Brady won 3 superbowls!" <----If you give Peyton Manning that defense, special teams and Bill Belicek, they would've won every superbowl since the Duke retired.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Brady, or Palmer, or any other "great" QBs of our time, but it's PEYTON MANNING that is the bench mark that Jay Cutler should be striving for. If he can manisfest into a talent like that, the future is amazingly bright in Denver.



Uh, Manning is good but he is no Brady. Sorry to burst your bubble there. Brady has led his team to 3 Super Bowl victories and took a injury riddled, lack of talent receiving core to the AFCCG and only lost by 4. Its not Brady's fault that he had a good defense behind him. But it wasnt the kind of defense like the Ravens where they would score on 3 Interceptions a game. But you know what Rev? Give Jake Plummer the same kind of defense and receiving core that Peyton has and we win 4 straight Super Bowls. Manning has NEVER carried that team to Super Bowl ( until yesterday and it was the defense that sealed it ) or any meaningful game.

[gunns]

Is there anybody so frigging stupid they believe Peyton Manning could have reached the AFC Championship Game with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney at wide receiver?

ROFL!

Bill Belichick?

[Northman]

You got a lot of nerve to call someone a fluffer when you are simultaneously blowing Tom Brady.

Let's be real here.



Speaking of fluffing, im surprised you took the time away from fluffing Bonds to even post this. Guess you needed some more chap stick eh?

[TDmvp]

Du Umb

[-Slap-]

Speaking of Caldwell...Is his eyes always that big or was the dude wired up on something last night? I don't ever remember seeing eyes like that before.

Maybe the moment was too big for him.

I'm sure New England fans remember the spaced out look on Calvin Schiraldi's face in the 1986 World Series.

[Steve Sewell]

Don Shula coached way past his prime. Way too many of Marino's good years were wasted on that guy.

Yeah that's part of the reason that I didn't take the Dolphins seriously for the latter half of Marino's career...never even thought of them as legit contenders.

[Mountain Bronco]

Where did the manning fluffers go? People seriously need reality checks in this place. So much more talent on the Colts than Pats, they were supposed to win. By the way, what happened at the end of the game with Belichek? Did he refuse to give an interview of something?

[KipCorrington25]

I'm not a fan of either but Manning is so much better than Brady it's not even close. Brady is as overrated as they come and won't get back to a Super Bowl anytime soon... he totally gagged in this game and then ran off the field without shaking hands showing his true colors.

[KipCorrington25]

LOL.

If Caldwell holds onto the ball in the endzone or the refs throw the flag when he got abused in the endzone it's....

Brady 4

Manning 0

Don't get carried away boy.

Oh God, do we have to go through another round of the Patriots fans crying that the refs screwed them again? This is two years in a row... pathetic.

[Kaylore]

...and deep down everyone knows it and has known it for a long time.

I'm just sick of all the bashing. Sore losers. I hate seeing Denver get thrashed by him too, but respect the talent and effort of who will probably go down in the NFL annals as the greatest QB to ever play the game.

Peyton Manning will hold nearly all the QB records by the time he hangs up his cleats. More importantly, he puts more effort into his preparation and film work than anyone I've ever seen, and is a consumate professional win or lose.

"But Brady won 3 superbowls!" <----If you give Peyton Manning that defense, special teams and Bill Belicek, they would've won every superbowl since the Duke retired.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Brady, or Palmer, or any other "great" QBs of our time, but it's PEYTON MANNING that is the bench mark that Jay Cutler should be striving for. If he can manisfest into a talent like that, the future is amazingly bright in Denver.
I really honestly, deep down don't agree. Manning has had better receivers and running backs than Brady and despite this Brady still has more rings. I think Brady is the better football player as well. Until Manning wins the Super Bowl, I will always consider Brady the better player because of how he did so much more with less.

[BroncoInferno]

This is hysterical. Manning would not have made the playoffs with the trash Brady has at WR.

EDIT: Slappy beat me to it.

[Kaylore]

Is there anybody so frigging stupid they believe Peyton Manning could have reached the AFC Championship Game with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney at wide receiver?

ROFL!
See. There it is. Manning plays behind a good line with good running backs and two number one receivers in a friggin' dome and still sucks. Yeah, he can throw six touchdowns against the likes of the Lions, but last night was the first time he did anything to help his team win in the postseason his entire career. Until then he'd been carried by his team this whole time.

Brady plays with third string receivers on a field that until this year was made of mud and green paint. Despite bad weather and road wins he was able come up big. I'm not saying that I wanted the Patriots to win, but when you look at what Manning has really done, it's not much but numbers at this point.

[Northman]

See. There it is. Manning plays behind a good line with good running backs and two number one receivers in a friggin' dome and still sucks. Yeah, he can throw six touchdowns against the likes of the Lions, but last night was the first time he did anything to help his team win in the postseason his entire career. Until then he'd been carried by his team this whole time.

Brady plays with third string receivers on a field that until this year was made of mud and green paint. Despite bad weather and road wins he was able come up big. I'm not saying that I wanted the Patriots to win, but when you look at what Manning has really done, it's not much but numbers at this point.



Exactly. I was listening to Obermann and Patrick earlier today and Theismann and KO were comparing Peyton's career to John's. But i agree with Dan that it wasnt even close in comparison, in fact i would say Peyton shares a bigger comparison with Marino than Elway. Manning has a lot of pretty numbers but has never carried that team and was given a lot more weapons early in his career than Elway did.

[freak6]

My take on Peyton Manning is that he shrivels up when the chips are down, it's not really a take, it's a fact.

3rd and 5 from the 30, at home, down by 3 and Manning audibles to a run ONCE again killing the drive and stopping them from going up, and they had to settle for the tie.

1-10-IND23 (7:35) P.Manning pass deep middle to D.Clark to NE 25 for 52 yards (J.Sanders) [T.Warren].
1-10-NE25 (6:56) D.Rhodes left tackle to NE 20 for 5 yards (M.Vrabel).
2-5-NE20 (6:23) P.Manning pass incomplete short left to R.Wayne (E.Hobbs).
3-5-NE20 (6:16) D.Rhodes left tackle to NE 18 for 2 yards (T.Banta-Cain).
4-3-NE18 (5:35) A.Vinatieri 36 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-J.Snow, Holder-H.Smith.

I can point to time after time how he consistently delegates responsibility on crucial drives, on crucial 3rd downs in the red zone or just out of it, which has cost him from winning playoff games.

It's a total bch move as the leader of the team to put the responsibility on everyone else but yourself to convert 3rd downs like that one. So many times in the redzone with the defense packed in tight I saw Peyton audible leading to Edge getting hit for a gain of 1 if not a loss in the redzone.

Peyton Manning is the greatest regular season QB of all time imo. But he lacks the competiveness and will to win to take control of the game and make his team better and get the W.

Jordan had it. Elway had it. Brady has it. Bird had it. Magic definitely had it.

With the game on the line, does Peyton want the ball in his hands?

No.

[GonzoLays]

The hilarious thing is if Manning doesn't beat the underdogs from Chicago, King Kong climbs right up onto his back again bigger than ever.

Is there anybody so frigging stupid they believe Peyton Manning could have reached the AFC Championship Game with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney at wide receiver?

ROFL!

You just can't let go can you old man? Hilarious!

You spent the last month trying to tell everyone how Manning was a choke artist and once again - like many of your takes -- it blew up in your face. Can't say that I am surprised, since this is a regular occurrence for you. Oh well, what can you do?

Keep it stupid, Slap!

[-Slap-]

You just can't let go can you old man? Hilarious!

You spent the last month trying to tell everyone how Manning was a choke artist and once again - like many of your takes -- it blew up in your face. Can't say that I am surprised, since this is a regular occurrence for you. Oh well, what can you do?

Keep it stupid, Slap!

Can't do anything but talk **** after the fact, can you, race baiter?

Pull up the post from before the playoffs where you predicted Indy and Chicago.

[Hotrod]

Whats amazing is the total # of threads in which Bonzo has been flat out taken to school.

[-Slap-]

Whats amazing is the total # of threads in which Bonzo has been flat out taken to school.

That's how trolls have fun online.

[yavoon]

Where did the manning fluffers go? People seriously need reality checks in this place. So much more talent on the Colts than Pats, they were supposed to win. By the way, what happened at the end of the game with Belichek? Did he refuse to give an interview of something?

no way on god's earth do the colts have more talent than the pats.

[yavoon]

My take on Peyton Manning is that he shrivels up when the chips are down, it's not really a take, it's a fact.

3rd and 5 from the 30, at home, down by 3 and Manning audibles to a run ONCE again killing the drive and stopping them from going up, and they had to settle for the tie.

1-10-IND23 (7:35) P.Manning pass deep middle to D.Clark to NE 25 for 52 yards (J.Sanders) [T.Warren].
1-10-NE25 (6:56) D.Rhodes left tackle to NE 20 for 5 yards (M.Vrabel).
2-5-NE20 (6:23) P.Manning pass incomplete short left to R.Wayne (E.Hobbs).
3-5-NE20 (6:16) D.Rhodes left tackle to NE 18 for 2 yards (T.Banta-Cain).
4-3-NE18 (5:35) A.Vinatieri 36 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-J.Snow, Holder-H.Smith.

I can point to time after time how he consistently delegates responsibility on crucial drives, on crucial 3rd downs in the red zone or just out of it, which has cost him from winning playoff games.

It's a total bch move as the leader of the team to put the responsibility on everyone else but yourself to convert 3rd downs like that one. So many times in the redzone with the defense packed in tight I saw Peyton audible leading to Edge getting hit for a gain of 1 if not a loss in the redzone.

Peyton Manning is the greatest regular season QB of all time imo. But he lacks the competiveness and will to win to take control of the game and make his team better and get the W.

Jordan had it. Elway had it. Brady has it. Bird had it. Magic definitely had it.

With the game on the line, does Peyton want the ball in his hands?

No.

so thats why he has the largest conference championship comeback ever and the largest regular season comeback ever? because he folds when behind?

this is interesting, I would like to subscribe to ur newsletter.

[BroncoInferno]

no way on god's earth do the colts have more talent than the pats.

Not on defense, but on offense there is no question the Colts have more talent.

[yavoon]

Not on defense, but on offense there is no question the Colts have more talent.

is there? the pats have a better oline IMO, the pats have more depth at rb, the pats have better tight ends. I'd say its possible to say the colts have more talent on offense, especially after branch left. but to proclaim that overall the colts have more is silly.

[BroncoInferno]

is there? the pats have a better oline IMO, the pats have more depth at rb, the pats have better tight ends. I'd say its possible to say the colts have more talent on offense, especially after branch left. but to proclaim that overall the colts have more is silly.

Not really. Addai and Rhodes pitted against an old Dillon and oft-injured Maroney is probably about a wash, the OL I'd give the slight edge to Indy, TEs I'd give to the Pats because of depth (but not by much as Dallas Clark is certainly no slouch), but where it becomes undeniable is at WR. The Pats have practically nothing at the position but trash. Caldwell and Gaffney would be #3 WRs at best on most teams. Caldwell was considered only a marginal #2 guy for San Diego. That's where the Colts take the clear edge.

[Northman]

Qb- Pats
Offensive Line- Colts
Rbs- Pats
Wrs- Colts
TE's- Colts

[yavoon]

Not really. Addai and Rhodes pitted against an old Dillon and oft-injured Maroney is probably about a wash, the OL I'd give the slight edge to Indy, TEs I'd give to the Pats because of depth (but not by much as Dallas Clark is certainly no slouch), but where it becomes undeniably is at WR. The Pats have practically nothing at the position but trash. Caldwell and Gaffney would be #3 WRs at best on most teams. Caldwell was considered only a marginal #2 guy for San Diego. That's where the Colts take the clear edge.

we're counting injuries? and the pats oline IMO is far superior, atleast in what I want in an oline. the colts oline can never get much push. the pats can maul u, and can 1on1 block players like dwight freeney. its a really versatile line.

and of course if we goto defense its an assraping. this pats defense is amazing in terms of talent, and was in many ways the most prolific pats defense ever.

[GonzoLays]

Q: How do you keep a Polak in suspense?


























A:





Hilarious!

[-Slap-]

is there? the pats have a better oline IMO, the pats have more depth at rb, the pats have better tight ends. I'd say its possible to say the colts have more talent on offense, especially after branch left. but to proclaim that overall the colts have more is silly.

You have to be kidding. The backs and TEs are even. Clark was dominant yesterday and he skinned our littlebackers alive when they played us.

Manning has a first ballot Hall of Famer and a Pro Bowler at WR and Brady has a pair of scrubs who weren't even penciled in as number three receivers going into training camp this season.

[Merlin]

LOL.

If Caldwell holds onto the ball in the endzone or the refs throw the flag when he got abused in the endzone it's....
You have got to be kidding. Did you even bother watching your CBs? They mugged SD's WR and didn't get called, and mugged Indy's receivers and didn't get called. But you cry and whine because you find out what one play feels like. Grow up...you sound like a SD fan.

PS and Manning did choke in the first half. Until he wins the big one he does not deserve to be mentioned with the very best.

[-Slap-]

Q: How do you keep a Polak in suspense?


I already heard that one while I was waiting in line to bang your mom.

[Merlin]

The only disclaimer to being among the greats without winning would be if he at least carries a mediocre team the final. To date he has not been able to carry VERY good teams there, much less mediocre ones.

[Garcia Bronco]

If Manning wants to make his bones he needs to do it in the Super Bowl...otherwise he's just another Marino. Championships are forever, records are broken.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Manning twice the QB that Brady is
Nominated for stupidest post of the year.

[yavoon]

You have to be kidding. The backs and TEs are even. Clark was dominant yesterday and he skinned our littlebackers alive when they played us.

Manning has a first ballot Hall of Famer and a Pro Bowler at WR and Brady has a pair of scrubs who weren't even penciled in as number three receivers going into training camp this season.

so having a backup who is a great downhill power runner and like the top 15 of all time is a wash w/ dominic rhodes? I see....

and having 3 great tight ends is the same as having 1 tight end who is more or less a slot receiver....

graham is a premier blocker and a good player up the seam. watson is a physical freak who can bounce off poor lil safeties and david thomas has great hands and from what I hear is a good blocker too.

the pats are STACKED at tight end, to compare it to one good player. even though dallas clark has been good is simply not fair.

[yavoon]

If Manning wants to make his bones he needs to do it in the Super Bowl...otherwise he's just another Marino. Championships are forever, records are broken.

coming from the team w/ all the spectacular superbowl failures? imagine if elway had retired at 35, he would not be ONE OUNCE less of a qb, especially if u consider his prime. but he'd have no rings and a bunch of whiffs, and some really bad ones too.

[-Slap-]

we're counting injuries? and the pats oline IMO is far superior, atleast in what I want in an oline. the colts oline can never get much push. the pats can maul u, and can 1on1 block players like dwight freeney. its a really versatile line.

and of course if we goto defense its an assraping. this pats defense is amazing in terms of talent, and was in many ways the most prolific pats defense ever.

You must be high, yavoon.

This Patriots defense is shadow of what is used to be. Proof of that is those guys never coughed up leads.

The linebackers have slowed down considerably and the safety play is not what it used to be, either. They were both exploited all day.

The Patriots defense this year was actually playing the dreaded bend-but-don't-break style we all know and hate. They were bottom half in yards allowed, but top five in points allowed.

[Northman]

so having a backup who is a great downhill power runner and like the top 15 of all time is a wash w/ dominic rhodes? I see....

and having 3 great tight ends is the same as having 1 tight end who is more or less a slot receiver....

graham is a premier blocker and a good player up the seam. watson is a physical freak who can bounce off poor lil safeties and david thomas has great hands and from what I hear is a good blocker too.

the pats are STACKED at tight end, to compare it to one good player. even though dallas clark has been good is simply not fair.


Having decent TE's is different than having a game breaker which Clark is. Watson is good but not great. He made one fantastic play against us last year and all of a sudden people want to annoint him God. Clark is ten times better than all 3 of them and proves it countlessly.

[BroncoInferno]

so having a backup who was a great downhill power runner and like the top 15 of all time is a wash w/ dominic rhodes? I see....

Corrected your post. Dillon is still effective, but not as good as he once was.

[-Slap-]

coming from the team w/ all the spectacular superbowl failures? imagine if elway had retired at 35, he would not be ONE OUNCE less of a qb, especially if u consider his prime. but he'd have no rings and a bunch of whiffs, and some really bad ones too.

Elway himself admitted that was total bull****.

You're having a tough night.

[Garcia Bronco]

coming from the team w/ all the spectacular superbowl failures? imagine if elway had retired at 35, he would not be ONE OUNCE less of a qb, especially if u consider his prime. but he'd have no rings and a bunch of whiffs, and some really bad ones too.

He would be less...instead he's not...He's got Super Bowl rings to plug each ear.

[yavoon]

Having decent TE's is different than having a game breaker which Clark is. Watson is good but not great. He made one fantastic play against us last year and all of a sudden people want to annoint him God. Clark is ten times better than all 3 of them and proves it countlessly.

clark is a gamebreaker now? god everyone peyton touches becomes great!

what do u call ppl like that?

[yavoon]

Elway himself admitted that was total bull****.

You're having a tough night.

he admitted that his talent as a qb would be diminished w/o riding terrell davis to two super bowl rings? this is interesting.

[yavoon]

Corrected your post. Dillon is still effective, but not as good as he once was.

I'd like to see if NE wants that trade. dillon 2006 for rhodes 2006. LOL.

[Northman]

clark is a gamebreaker now? god everyone peyton touches becomes great!

what do u call ppl like that?


I dont understand your point. Clark is a more versatile TE as compared to the ones in NE hence why he is a huge threat for Peyton. If Clark played on NE he would be equally as dangerous.

[-Slap-]

he admitted that his talent as a qb would be diminished w/o riding terrell davis to two super bowl rings? this is interesting.

Yeah, go with that interpretation of you like.

Sorry he kept your team out of the Super Bowl three times in four years. That had to suck. Had to suck even more when the losers in dog masks with Hartz Mountain breath watched their stupid team pack up and move to Baltimore.

[BroncoInferno]

I'd like to see if NE wants that trade. dillon 2006 for rhodes 2006. LOL.


It's not between Rhodes and Dillon. It''s between Rhodes/Addai and Dillon/Maroney. But if you want to play it that way, I bet they'd take a 23 year old Addai over a 32 year old Dillon.

[Northman]

Yeah, go with that interpretation of you like.

Sorry he kept your team out of the Super Bowl three times in four years. That had to suck. Had to suck even more when the losers in dog masks with Hartz Mountain breath watched their stupid team pack up and move to Baltimore.


Wait a minute? Yavoon is a Browns fan? :rofl: Thats Rich.

[yavoon]

I dont understand your point. Clark is a more versatile TE as compared to the ones in NE hence why he is a huge threat for Peyton. If Clark played on NE he would be equally as dangerous.

so u say now, it seems to me all the talent on the colts is either peyton manning or on the other end of peyton manning's throws. its like everyone he throws to is a world beater, and he makes new world beaters periodically.

[ozomulsion]

You're having a tough night.
You had a tough Sunday. Your nightmare will become true. :clown:

[yavoon]

Wait a minute? Yavoon is a Browns fan? :rofl: Thats Rich.

I'm not.

[Muddled]

Don't people ever get tired of these Manning vs. Brady debates?

They're 2 future HoF'ers and by far the 2 best qbs in the league today.

[BroncoInferno]

so u say now, it seems to me all the talent on the colts is either peyton manning or on the other end of peyton manning's throws. its like everyone he throws to is a world beater, and he makes new world beaters periodically.

Well, it can work either way. We don't know with 100% certainity if Clark would be any good without Manning (or Wayne and Harrison for that matter), but we do know that Gaffney and Caldwell were basically trash before they plahyed with Tom Brady. Seems to me he's the guy making otherwise average or bad players look good.

[yavoon]

It's not between Rhodes and Dillon. It''s between Rhodes/Addai and Dillon/Maroney. But if you want to play it that way, I bet they'd take a 23 year old Addai over a 32 year old Dillon.

so now maroney doesn't count? at either rate there's 3 good backs there and rhodes. if u can separate addai from maroney(which is sketchy) then dillon can easily makeup the difference w/ rhodes.

[yavoon]

Well, it can work either way. We don't know with 100% certainity if Clark would be any good without Manning (or Wayne and Harrison for that matter), but we do know that Gaffney and Caldwell were basically trash before they plahyed with Tom Brady. Seems to me he's the guy making otherwise average or bad players look good.

how was stokley doin before manning?

and yes brady is a very good qb.

[BroncoInferno]

so now maroney doesn't count? at either rate there's 3 good backs there and rhodes. if u can separate addai from maroney(which is sketchy) then dillon can easily makeup the difference w/ rhodes.

They all count, dummy. You were the one breaking it down between Dillon and Rhodes. It's a wash between the two units.

[Bronx33]

All i know is 3 superbowls are in the record books how they were won makes no difference (they are in the books) Just 3 straight superbowls and jughead can wash marshas underwear, it's a glaring fact that if you don't hang pork and win the big ones. (All the stats in the world don't mean much) and every year commentators with point that out when these best ever discussions come up.

[BroncoInferno]

how was stokley doin before manning?

OK when healthy, which was rare. He had one great year when he managed to stay healthy the whole year and playing with two other all-pro WRs (not to mention Clark and Pollard at TE that year) getting the bulk of the attention, now he's back to being a regular on the injury report. Seems to me he's a guy who's pretty good but can't stay healthy.

[Northman]

so u say now, it seems to me all the talent on the colts is either peyton manning or on the other end of peyton manning's throws. its like everyone he throws to is a world beater, and he makes new world beaters periodically.

Does he? I would say its talent on the receiving end not too mention chemistry with dealing with the same squad for a longer period of time. Yet, Brady has had to deal with players either getting traded or cut loose. Point is, it takes a great Qb to make the lesser talent around him better, whereas when you have solid talent around you ( Manning ) it came give you the impression that your great. Manning is a decent Qb, dont get me wrong but he could not make a subpar team great. Plainly, Brady has done more with less.

[yavoon]

OK when healthy, which was rare. He had one great year when he managed to stay healthy the whole year and playing with two other all-pro WRs (not to mention Clark and Pollard at TE that year) getting the bulk of the attention, now he's back to being a regular on the injury report. Seems to me he's a guy who's pretty good but can't stay healthy.

is clark not playing w/ two other all pro receivers? I mean clark and stokley play the same position about half the time.

[BroncoInferno]

Keep in mind that Harrison, Wayne, Clarke and Addai were all first rounders.

[yavoon]

Does he? I would say its talent on the receiving end not too mention chemistry with dealing with the same squad for a longer period of time. Yet, Brady has had to deal with players either getting traded or cut loose. Point is, it takes a great Qb to make the lesser talent around him better, whereas when you have solid talent around you ( Manning ) it came give you the impression that your great. Manning is a decent Qb, dont get me wrong but he could not make a subpar team great. Plainly, Brady has done more with less.

he could easily make a subpar team great, just like he did to the colts. what was the stat the year before manning the colts were like 28th in sacks and under manning they pole vaulted to like 5th.

manning makes ppl better, he puts them in amazing positions, he finds them and he hits them accurately. thats pretty much guarenteed to make u look good as a receiver.

[Northman]

how was stokley doin before manning?

and yes brady is a very good qb.

Stokely was a main target for Dilfer in Baltimore before going to Indy.

[yavoon]

Stokely was a main target for Dilfer in Baltimore before going to Indy.

main target? he never caught more than 24 passes w/o having an indy uniform on. whats this main target absurdity?

[Northman]

he could easily make a subpar team great, just like he did to the colts. what was the stat the year before manning the colts were like 28th in sacks and under manning they pole vaulted to like 5th.

manning makes ppl better, he puts them in amazing positions, he finds them and he hits them accurately. thats pretty much guarenteed to make u look good as a receiver.

So its your take that Harrison, Wayne and Clark are all scrubs? Like they are no better than Gaffney and Caldwell?

[yavoon]

So its your take that Harrison, Wayne and Clark are all scrubs? Like they are no better than Gaffney and Caldwell?

no, its my take that manning is a very good qb that makes ppl around him better.

I also think brady is a good qb.

and to the original point I entered this thread, brady has more talent around him than manning does. this includes the entire team.

[Northman]

main target? he never caught more than 24 passes w/o having an indy uniform on. whats this main target absurdity?

During the Ravens Super Bowl run Stokely was Dilfer's main target. From 99-02 he had 60 receptions for 913 yds and 7 Tds.

[Northman]

no, its my take that manning is a very good qb that makes ppl around him better.

I also think brady is a good qb.

and to the original point I entered this thread, brady has more talent around him than manning does. this includes the entire team.


Defensively yes, Offensively no.

[yavoon]

Defensively yes, Offensively no.

if we're talking about wins u have to consider the whole team. just saying "waaaa peyton can't win w/ marvin harrison" when his d gives up 180 rush yards/game is poor analysis.

[Muddled]

I guess not

[ozomulsion]

During the Ravens Super Bowl run Stokely was Dilfer's main target. From 99-02 he had 60 receptions for 913 yds and 7 Tds.

Fact is, he never had more than 24 catches on one entire season. C'mon now AZ.

[yavoon]

During the Ravens Super Bowl run Stokely was Dilfer's main target. From 99-02 he had 60 receptions for 913 yds and 7 Tds.

from a 3 year period he had 60 catches? hahahahahahahhahahahahaha. ur on crack.

Receiving Stats
YEAR TEAM G REC YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LOST
1999 BAL 2 1 28 28.0 28 1 1 0 0
2000 BAL 7 11 184 16.7 32 2 10 0 0
2001 BAL 16 24 344 14.3 46 2 16 0 0
2002 BAL 8 24 357 14.9 35 2 16 0 0
2003 IND 6 22 211 9.6 37 3 11 0 0
2004 IND 16 68 1077 15.8 69 10 53 1 1
2005 IND 15 41 543 13.2 45 1 29 0 0
2006 IND 4 8 85 10.6 23 1 3 0 0
Career 74 199 2829 14.2 69 22 139 1 1

[Cito Pelon]

I'm more impressed with Peyton the last couple of years than I am with Brady. Brady is a sore loser. It's hard for me to respect that. Remember Brady's temper tantrum when the Broncos went into Gillette and shut him down? Like a spoiled brat, and for all to see right there facing the field. "F you! F you!" he was saying. And this last loss, he takes off for the locker room, doesn't make even a token effort at shaking a hand or two. Maybe he had to piss real bad.

[Northman]

if we're talking about wins u have to consider the whole team. just saying "waaaa peyton can't win w/ marvin harrison" when his d gives up 180 rush yards/game is poor analysis.


We arent talking about wins, at least im not. Im talking about who has more talent on offense and what they have done with the that talent.

[Northman]

from a 3 year period he had 60 catches? hahahahahahahhahahahahaha. ur on crack.

Receiving Stats
YEAR TEAM G REC YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LOST
1999 BAL 2 1 28 28.0 28 1 1 0 0
2000 BAL 7 11 184 16.7 32 2 10 0 0
2001 BAL 16 24 344 14.3 46 2 16 0 0
2002 BAL 8 24 357 14.9 35 2 16 0 0
2003 IND 6 22 211 9.6 37 3 11 0 0
2004 IND 16 68 1077 15.8 69 10 53 1 1
2005 IND 15 41 543 13.2 45 1 29 0 0
2006 IND 4 8 85 10.6 23 1 3 0 0
Career 74 199 2829 14.2 69 22 139 1 1


24+24=48+11=59+1= 60. Not really that complicated man. lol

[yavoon]

We arent talking about wins, at least im not. Im talking about who has more talent on offense and what they have done with the that talent.

well I started in this w/ the retort of pats have more overall talent than the colts, so I will always be returning back to that periodically.

I think its fine to say the colts have more talent on offense, I think its pretty close though. pats having 3 good tight ends, a superior line and better rb depth.

I think peyton has every trait that would make him great at getting a lot out of a little talent. it just hasnt been that way in his career. he is smart, he can call plays to put u in great positions, he is accurate, he is great at locating weaknesses, he is hard as **** to sack. thats pretty much the laundry list of how to make players around u look good.

[yavoon]

24+24=48+11=59+1= 60. Not really that complicated man. lol

I wasn't laughing at ur math, more at ur argument. main target, 60 catches in 3 years! hahahahahah.

[Northman]

well I started in this w/ the retort of pats have more overall talent than the colts, so I will always be returning back to that periodically.

I think its fine to say the colts have more talent on offense, I think its pretty close though. pats having 3 good tight ends, a superior line and better rb depth.

I think peyton has every trait that would make him great at getting a lot out of a little talent. it just hasnt been that way in his career. he is smart, he can call plays to put u in great positions, he is accurate, he is great at locating weaknesses, he is hard as **** to sack. thats pretty much the laundry list of how to make players around u look good.


He's hard to sack because his Oline is stellar.

[yavoon]

He's hard to sack because his Oline is stellar.

more untruths. he took a crap oline when he came as a rookie and brought them into the top 5 in sacks allowed. of course this falsehood stems from the popular conception that mobile qbs are the hard to sack ones, which is also a lie.

[Northman]

I wasn't laughing at ur math, more at ur argument. main target, 60 catches in 3 years! hahahahahah.


Considering the team he was on he was. The Ravens offense during that time was not a prolific one.

[Northman]

more untruths. he took a crap oline when he came as a rookie and brought them into the top 5 in sacks allowed. of course this falsehood stems from the popular conception that mobile qbs are the hard to sack ones, which is also a lie.


Now i know your on crack. Ha! ROFL! LOL


I guess going by that logic that makes him better than Elway.

[DenverBrit]

Is there anybody so frigging stupid they believe Peyton Manning could have reached the AFC Championship Game with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney at wide receiver?

ROFL!

Who?? Ha!

[yavoon]

Considering the team he was on he was. The Ravens offense during that time was not a prolific one.

hahahahahahahhha. never more than 24 catches....

in 2002 and 2003 todd heap had double stokley's catches. marcus robinson also had more catches in 2003.

in 2001 shannon sharpe had over triple? quintuple? whatever.

travis taylor also beat him in receptions all 3 years.

so the best he EVER got was #3, and that might not even be true, I didnt look at rb's and such. now I did quite a bit of work here so I hope we can put this foolishness to rest.

[yavoon]

Now i know your on crack. Ha! ROFL! LOL

a huge myth in the NFL is that its the scampering qbs that are hard to sack, thats always been a lie. not being sacked is about play recognition, pocket presence, pocket mobility, and decision making. not 40 yard dash time.

[Northman]

a huge myth in the NFL is that its the scampering qbs that are hard to sack, thats always been a lie. not being sacked is about play recognition, pocket presence, pocket mobility, and decision making. not 40 yard dash time.


Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!


Dude, quit while your ahead.

[yavoon]

Who?? Ha!

if he gets the pats d? or some other dominant d? sure. its a team game. peyton is perfectly capable of throwing to gaffney/moorehead/utecht/whoever. he has all the tools u'd look for in a qb like that(as does brady).

[yavoon]

Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!


Dude, quit while your ahead.

hey if u believe the lie thats fine w/ me. smart ppl know that avoiding sacks isnt about running fast.

[ozomulsion]

Now i know your on crack. Ha! ROFL! LOL

He has a good point. Big, tough, strong armed QBs who make good and quick presnap reads are the ones who get sacked the least. Cutler hopefully.

[Northman]

He has a good point. Big, tough, strong armed QBs who make good and quick presnap reads are the ones who get sacked the least. Cutler hopefully.

If our Oline plays like it did this past season we wont be seeing that anytime soon which was my point to begin with. No matter how good/great a Qb will be he wont succeed if he doesnt have a great Oline in front of him. Manning doesnt make the Oline, it makes him.

[ozomulsion]

If our Oline plays like it did this past season we wont be seeing that anytime soon which was my point to begin with. No matter how good/great a Qb will be he wont succeed if he doesnt have a great Oline in front of him. Manning doesnt make the Oline, it makes him.

Look what Cutler was able to do compared than our more moble Plummer in just his first few games as a rookie QB. I agree the line must be improved 1000 times.

[BroncoInferno]

Look what Cutler was able to do compared than our more moble Plummer in just his first few games as a rookie QB. I agree the line must be improved 1000 times.

Plummer was sacked 18 times in 11 games. Cutler was sacked 13 times in 5 games. I'm not sure it would be accurate to say Jay made the line look better in terms of pass protection.

[yavoon]

If our Oline plays like it did this past season we wont be seeing that anytime soon which was my point to begin with. No matter how good/great a Qb will be he wont succeed if he doesnt have a great Oline in front of him. Manning doesnt make the Oline, it makes him.

cliche saying that does not prove out. liek I said, manning took an oline ranked like 28th in sacks given up and put them in the top 5.

[Cito Pelon]

Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!


Dude, quit while your ahead.

You take a beating and keep on bleating.

[ozomulsion]

You take a beating and keep on bleating.

Doesn't he. :~ohyah!:

[Merlin]

cliche saying that does not prove out. liek I said, manning took an oline ranked like 28th in sacks given up and put them in the top 5.
Show me the stat, and not some crappy meaningless analysis. When you look at the footballoutsiders stats, Indy's line does very well. Moreover, if you have bothered watching the game, you would have noticed that Indy's line gives PM substantial time to pass. In fact his lousy games are when he is required to compensate for them. So no, he does not compensate for poor play in their part, they are part of the reason he does well.

As to comparing NEs O with Indy's...what a freaking joke. Since TB's tenure, he had many yrs of poor rb, and avg receivers. PM has always had great receivers and excellent running game. And if it was a simple as your simple analysis makes it, then Indy is the most idiotic team in the NFL for the money they are paying the WRs.

BTW, the only QB of the two that has proven that he makes his players look better is TB. His WR leave and become mediocre, yet look very good with him. Indy is so scared of losing its WR it gives them huge contracts. Yeah, you are right, the offensive talent on both teams has been comparable over the past few yrs. Give it up while you still can.

[yavoon]

Show me the stat, and not some crappy meaningless analysis. When you look at the footballoutsiders stats, Indy's line does very well. Moreover, if you have bothered watching the game, you would have noticed that Indy's line gives PM substantial time to pass. In fact his lousy games are when he is required to compensate for them. So no, he does not compensate for poor play in their part, they are part of the reason he does well.

As to comparing NEs O with Indy's...what a freaking joke. Since TB's tenure, he had many yrs of poor rb, and avg receivers. PM has always had great receivers and excellent running game. And if it was a simple as your simple analysis makes it, then Indy is the most idiotic team in the NFL for the money they are paying the WRs.

BTW, the only QB of the two that has proven that he makes his players look better is TB. His WR leave and become mediocre, yet look very good with him. Indy is so scared of losing its WR it gives them huge contracts. Yeah, you are right, the offensive talent on both teams has been comparable over the past few yrs. Give it up while you still can.


as for outsiders they dont go back far enough to track before manning indy, so why even bring them up? also ur analysis is modestly self serving, one the last game we saw was a good exception, manning no huddled that dline into the ground, they were done by the start of the fourth. keep in mind when they were much more fresh and manning wasn't no huddling the colts only scored 3 pts. all qbs will have worse games when given less time and better games when given , this is not a real proof of anything other than obvious logic, and it doesn't goto proving manning/oline's contribution to his difficulty to sack.

also I would like to know if u r contending that manning is bad at avoiding sacks, or if qb's dont have a significant role in the sack rate. I want to make sure of the nature of our disagreement, because I never said the indy oline was chop liver. I merely said manning is a huge asset in avoiding sacks.

[TheReverend]

I really honestly, deep down don't agree. Manning has had better receivers and running backs than Brady and despite this Brady still has more rings. I think Brady is the better football player as well. Until Manning wins the Super Bowl, I will always consider Brady the better player because of how he did so much more with less.

More with less? You mentioned two positions of a football team!

Okay let's address this "until Manning wins the Super Bowl" one more time in simpler terms that everyone here may relate to.

Before 1997, who did you think was the greater QB, Montana or Elway?

[TheReverend]

Is there anybody so frigging stupid they believe Peyton Manning could have reached the AFC Championship Game with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney at wide receiver?

ROFL!

What makes you think he couldnt? Look at his recievers ave/below average production before he came along:

Brandon Stokley
Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ 1st
1999 Baltimore Ravens 2 0 1 28 28.0 28 1 1 0 1
2000 Baltimore Ravens 7 1 11 184 16.7 32 2 4 0 10
2001 Baltimore Ravens 16 5 24 344 14.3 46 2 6 1 16
2002 Baltimore Ravens 8 5 24 357 14.9 35 2 7 0 16
2003 Indianapolis Colts 6 3 22 211 9.6 37 3 2 0 11
2004 Indianapolis Colts 16 3 68 1077 15.8 69 10 20 2 53
2005 Indianapolis Colts 15 4 41 543 13.2 45 1 10 1 29
2006 Indianapolis Colts 4 1 8 85 10.6 23 1 1 0 3

Marvin Harrison

Receiving
Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ 1st
1996 Indianapolis Colts 16 15 64 836 13.1 41 8 15 1 43
1997 Indianapolis Colts 16 15 73 866 11.9 44 6 9 2 46
1998 Indianapolis Colts 12 12 59 776 13.2 61 7 9 2 40
1999 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 115 1663 14.5 57 12 24 7 79
2000 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 102 1413 13.9 78 14 16 4 70
2001 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 109 1524 14.0 68 15 19 6 75
2002 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 143 1722 12.0 69 11 22 4 92
2003 Indianapolis Colts 15 15 94 1272 13.5 79 10 17 4 60
2004 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 86 1113 12.9 59 15 16 3 63
2005 Indianapolis Colts 15 15 82 1146 14.0 80 12 14 3 59
2006 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 95 1366 14.4 68 12 18 4 78
TOTAL 170 168 1022 13697 13.4 80 122 179 40 705

Marvin Harrison wasn't on pace for even 1000 yards a season until Peyton came to town, look whats happened since. Stokley might not have even been on pace for 1000 yards in his career.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

What makes you think he couldnt? Look at his recievers ave/below average production before he came along:

Brandon Stokley
Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ 1st
1999 Baltimore Ravens 2 0 1 28 28.0 28 1 1 0 1
2000 Baltimore Ravens 7 1 11 184 16.7 32 2 4 0 10
2001 Baltimore Ravens 16 5 24 344 14.3 46 2 6 1 16
2002 Baltimore Ravens 8 5 24 357 14.9 35 2 7 0 16
2003 Indianapolis Colts 6 3 22 211 9.6 37 3 2 0 11
2004 Indianapolis Colts 16 3 68 1077 15.8 69 10 20 2 53
2005 Indianapolis Colts 15 4 41 543 13.2 45 1 10 1 29
2006 Indianapolis Colts 4 1 8 85 10.6 23 1 1 0 3

Marvin Harrison

Receiving
Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ 1st
1996 Indianapolis Colts 16 15 64 836 13.1 41 8 15 1 43
1997 Indianapolis Colts 16 15 73 866 11.9 44 6 9 2 46
1998 Indianapolis Colts 12 12 59 776 13.2 61 7 9 2 40
1999 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 115 1663 14.5 57 12 24 7 79
2000 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 102 1413 13.9 78 14 16 4 70
2001 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 109 1524 14.0 68 15 19 6 75
2002 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 143 1722 12.0 69 11 22 4 92
2003 Indianapolis Colts 15 15 94 1272 13.5 79 10 17 4 60
2004 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 86 1113 12.9 59 15 16 3 63
2005 Indianapolis Colts 15 15 82 1146 14.0 80 12 14 3 59
2006 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 95 1366 14.4 68 12 18 4 78
TOTAL 170 168 1022 13697 13.4 80 122 179 40 705

Marvin Harrison wasn't on pace for even 1000 yards a season until Peyton came to town, look whats happened since. Stokley might not have even been on pace for 1000 yards in his career.


Anyone thinking that Manning gets here with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney in place of Harrison and Wayne doesn't watch the game. Of course, I guess that was apparent from the very first post of "Manning is twice the QB as Brady is".

[Steve Sewell]

so thats why he has the largest conference championship comeback ever and the largest regular season comeback ever? because he folds when behind?

this is interesting, I would like to subscribe to ur newsletter.

It's "your"... please stop bastardizing the English language.

[sonsofkraftybob]

You have got to be kidding. Did you even bother watching your CBs? They mugged SD's WR and didn't get called, and mugged Indy's receivers and didn't get called. But you cry and whine because you find out what one play feels like. Grow up...you sound like a SD fan.

PS and Manning did choke in the first half. Until he wins the big one he does not deserve to be mentioned with the very best.

Who's whining? It's just a fact. If he catches the ball in the endzone game over. He was mugged there too but whatever, calls go both ways over a course of the season.

The Title of the tread is what I was responding to.

If one ball is not dropped, by Caldwell, who I don't even fault for it because he played above himself this year...then it's Brady 4 Manning Zip. Just a fact.

So by having one ball dropped instead of caught, and we are talking about in his breadbasket in the endzone here, not some Hail Mary, Manning is NOW twice the QB of Brady?

No. Not even close.

[Hotrod]

Interesting points made on both sides. Its always fun watching a thread where baffoon & Bonzo get kicked in the balls over and over.

My guess is this thread could go on thru the whole offseason and neither side would relent. As I walk away from this mess I'll leave with this fact. If I were starting a franchise Brady would be my QB of choice over Manning 100% of the time.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Interesting points made on both sides. Its always fun watching a thread where baffoon & Bonzo get kicked in the balls over and over.

My guess is this thread could go on thru the whole offseason and neither side would relent. As I walk away from this mess I'll leave with this fact. If I were starting a franchise Brady would be my QB of choice over Manning 100% of the time.Either would work for me but one certainly isn't twice as good as the other.

[fontaine]

no, its my take that manning is a very good qb that makes ppl around him better.

I also think brady is a good qb.

and to the original point I entered this thread, brady has more talent around him than manning does. this includes the entire team.

I think the entire team talent thing could well be argued.

But it's pretty clear to me that when it comes to the postseason, Brady is a much better QB than Manning ever will be. Call it being clutch, playing well under pressure, whatever.

How else can you explain that in his first year starting Tom Brady took a mediocre offense, with a decent D all the way to a SuperBowl win?

Remember back to that game winning drive in the dying seconds which led to the winning FG after the Rams had just come back strong? That was Tom Brady working with guys like Troy Brown/Antwain Smith, and an average OL. And Brady has been doing it ever since to the tune of a 12-2 playoff record and three SuperBowl wins.

Manning? It took him 8 years in the league to mount that game winning drive in the post season that Brady did in his first year starting.

Why did it take Manning so long to finally play well in an AFC Championship game?

[freak6]

so thats why he has the largest conference championship comeback ever and the largest regular season comeback ever? because he folds when behind?

this is interesting, I would like to subscribe to ur newsletter.

I didn't say he folds when he is behind. I said he delegates responsibility on crucial 3rd downs either inside the red zone or just out of it. I can point to numerous examples if you like going back the last few playoffs, but I would hate for the facts to come out and show what a sissy QB Peyton is.

[defenseman]

I'll take Cutler over both of them. One pisses the other moans. A real dynamic duet of primmadonnas. Screw them both...dman

[yavoon]

I think the entire team talent thing could well be argued.

But it's pretty clear to me that when it comes to the postseason, Brady is a much better QB than Manning ever will be. Call it being clutch, playing well under pressure, whatever.

How else can you explain that in his first year starting Tom Brady took a mediocre offense, with a decent D all the way to a SuperBowl win?

Remember back to that game winning drive in the dying seconds which led to the winning FG after the Rams had just come back strong? That was Tom Brady working with guys like Troy Brown/Antwain Smith, and an average OL. And Brady has been doing it ever since to the tune of a 12-2 playoff record and three SuperBowl wins.

Manning? It took him 8 years in the league to mount that game winning drive in the post season that Brady did in his first year starting.

Why did it take Manning so long to finally play well in an AFC Championship game?

was it clutch when brady got sacked and fumbled and saved by the tuck rule? was it clutch when he threw a pick to the chargers and the chargers player fumbled it?

I really like brady but the analysis being used here is trivial. all the numbnutted retards saying "omg if he didnt have amazing wr's he wouldn't win anything ever." ignoring the other ~50 ppl on a football team. its just silly, and I hope they take their heads out of their asses long enough to realize it.

[yavoon]

I didn't say he folds when he is behind. I said he delegates responsibility on crucial 3rd downs either inside the red zone or just out of it. I can point to numerous examples if you like going back the last few playoffs, but I would hate for the facts to come out and show what a sissy QB Peyton is.

so now leading comebacks isnt enough u can't be seen to "delegate responsiblity" at any point? wow, this gets better all the time.

[yavoon]

Anyone thinking that Manning gets here with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney in place of Harrison and Wayne doesn't watch the game. Of course, I guess that was apparent from the very first post of "Manning is twice the QB as Brady is".

if he gets the rest of brady's team? sure. enough w/ this infantile line of analysis.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

if he gets the rest of brady's team? sure. enough w/ this infantile line of analysis.

LOL

What you just posted can be considered the REAL "infantile line of analysis". The point the owner of thread made was about the receivers Forrest.

[Florida_Bronco]

I just want to include this post here from Slap in this thread.

Loser Number 9: yavoon

Why he sucks: Drama King in Shorthand. Almost unbelievably argumentative. Seems to get along with virtually no other posters. Most of his discussions degenerate into name calling.

Defining moment: Rolling into Dodge and declaring some crap WR for Cleveland (forget who offhand) is better than Rod Smith.

Good points: Sometimes raises solid points. Not afraid to argue the unpopular side of an argument.

Potential for redemption: Too miserable as a human being to ever be likable.

Loser Number 7: GonzoLays

Why he sucks: Fancies himself a provocative iconoclast, but he's really just a race baiting attention whore. Besmirches the memory of the great Richard Pryor by attaching his avatar image to one crappy take after another.

Defining moment: Trolls too consistently to narrow down one particular thread or post.

Good points: Shows flashes of rudimentary sports knowledge when he forgets his schtick is to be an annoying asshat 24/7.

Potential for redemption: Unlikely. Too fascinated by his own immaturity.


That is all.

[sonsofkraftybob]

. And this last loss, he takes off for the locker room, doesn't make even a token effort at shaking a hand or two. Maybe he had to piss real bad.

Why do people make this ish up? Seriously? Where do people hear this nonsense? Not just you but others I see do it too.

here ya go...take a look....don't always believe what jealous people tell you.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/sonsofkraftybob/patscoltslesson.jpg

[Ron Mexico]

agreed--or by Marlon Mcree intercepting him on 4th down and then fumbling the interception! Brady is an elite QB no doubt, but just as if Elway would have been on the niners instead of the broncos in the 1980's , if you put manning on a team with a defense and ST unit the likes of NE, NE has AT LEAST 3 SB's.

I won't close my eyes in denial just because the Broncos have struggled to beat the Colts but have spanked the Patriots. I know most here don't like Manning and favor Brady because of it. The example of putting Elway on the 80's niners instead of Montana compared to putting Manning on the recent Pats teams is a very valid argument. When you look solely at the QB position, Manning sets the standard. Anyone willing to step back and take a non-biased look at solely the QB position should agree.

[Northman]

Why do people make this ish up? Seriously? Where do people hear this nonsense? Not just you but others I see do it too.

here ya go...take a look....don't always believe what jealous people tell you.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/sonsofkraftybob/patscoltslesson.jpg


You have to take into account who you are talking too. That should tell you everything you need to know. LOL

[Rock Chalk]

...and deep down everyone knows it and has known it for a long time.

I'm just sick of all the bashing. Sore losers. I hate seeing Denver get thrashed by him too, but respect the talent and effort of who will probably go down in the NFL annals as the greatest QB to ever play the game.

Peyton Manning will hold nearly all the QB records by the time he hangs up his cleats. More importantly, he puts more effort into his preparation and film work than anyone I've ever seen, and is a consumate professional win or lose.

"But Brady won 3 superbowls!" <----If you give Peyton Manning that defense, special teams and Bill Belicek, they would've won every superbowl since the Duke retired.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Brady, or Palmer, or any other "great" QBs of our time, but it's PEYTON MANNING that is the bench mark that Jay Cutler should be striving for. If he can manisfest into a talent like that, the future is amazingly bright in Denver.

Yeah, Cutler can bench mark Peyton Manning. 9 years before we even get to teh SB again.

This is assinine. Id take Brady over Manning every day of the week. Just like Id take Elway over Marino every day of the week.

Id take Cutler with 3 SB rings in 5 years and somewhere close to the top of stats than Cutler with no SB rings in 9 years and at the top of every stat there is.

[freak6]

so now leading comebacks isnt enough u can't be seen to "delegate responsiblity" at any point? wow, this gets better all the time.

Again you have to turn to changing my words yavoon. It's weak.

As I said, I can point to at least 4 instances where it was 3rd and 4 or 5 either in the redzone or just out of it, where Peyton Manning audibled to a running play, which was of course stopped, and they had to settle for a FG.

It's a btch move for a great QB to make. A great QB or player like Elway, Brady, Montana, Marino, Bird, Jordan, or Magic are able to beat you even when you know it's coming.

Peyton is afraid to even try. He's a great QB no doubt. His play on Sunday was very good, and he made some great throws. But he still was afraid to screw up and pinned his hopes on the drive continuing on that 3rd and 5 I posted, and he audibled to a crappy running play.

QB's with great confidence and the will to win want the ball in thier hands, they want to be the one to decide the game, because they have the confidence in thier own abilities to succeed and move the chains.

Peyton's shrivels up and audibles to a running play. It's garbage. And he has done it year in year out. Had Brady won that game, everyone on TV would point to that audible as yet another btch call by Peyton, but they won so it has been buried. But not to experts that have watched Peyton fold under the pressure of the game being on the line, and delegating to everyone else to make the play, instead of being a true leader and making it happen himself.

Indianapolis Colts at 10:59
1-10-IND2 (10:59) E.James up the middle to IND 3 for 1 yard (J.Farrior).
2-9-IND3 (10:25) E.James left end to IND 13 for 10 yards (C.Hope, I.Taylor).
1-10-IND13 (9:48) E.James right end to IND 17 for 4 yards (C.Haggans, J.Farrior).
2-6-IND17 (9:10) P.Manning pass to D.Clark to IND 38 for 21 yards (I.Taylor).
1-10-IND38 (8:23) E.James left end pushed ob at PIT 47 for 15 yards (T.Polamalu).
1-10-PIT47 (7:55) P.Manning pass to B.Fletcher to PIT 36 for 11 yards (I.Taylor, T.Polamalu).
1-10-PIT36 (7:15) D.Rhodes left end to PIT 34 for 2 yards (J.Farrior, B.Keisel).
2-8-PIT34 (6:33) P.Manning pass to R.Wayne to PIT 30 for 4 yards (J.Farrior).
3-4-PIT30 (5:47) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass to B.Fletcher to PIT 23 for 7 yards (I.Taylor).
1-10-PIT23 (5:07) P.Manning pass to E.James to PIT 18 for 5 yards (J.Farrior, I.Taylor).
2-5-PIT18 (4:25) E.James right end pushed ob at PIT 9 for 9 yards (C.Hope, T.Polamalu).
1-9-PIT9 (3:57) E.James up the middle to PIT 7 for 2 yards (J.Farrior, L.Foote).
2-7-PIT7 (3:20) P.Manning pass to E.James to PIT 1 for 6 yards (L.Foote).
3-1-PIT1 (2:33) (Shotgun)
PENALTY on IND-T.Glenn, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 1 - No Play.
3-6-PIT6 (2:33) PENALTY on PIT-A.Smith, Neutral Zone Infraction, 3 yards, enforced at PIT 6 - No Play.
<b>3-3-PIT3 (2:00) E.James right end to PIT 2 for 1 yard (C.Haggans, T.Polamalu). </b>
4-2-PIT2 (1:23) M.Vanderjagt 20 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-J.Snow, Holder-H.Smith.

He'll probably do it this week in a crucial situation again. This time, under the Super Bowl microscope, it'll cost him worse than ever.

[ozomulsion]

Again you have to turn to changing my words yavoon. It's weak.

As I said, I can point to at least 4 instances where it was 3rd and 4 or 5 either in the redzone or just out of it, where Peyton Manning audibled to a running play, which was of course stopped, and they had to settle for a FG.

It's a btch move for a great QB to make. A great QB or player like Elway, Brady, Montana, Marino, Bird, Jordan, or Magic are able to beat you even when you know it's coming.

Peyton is afraid to even try. He's a great QB no doubt. His play on Sunday was very good, and he made some great throws. But he still was afraid to screw up and pinned his hopes on the drive continuing on that 3rd and 5 I posted, and he audibled to a crappy running play.

QB's with great confidence and the will to win want the ball in thier hands, they want to be the one to decide the game, because they have the confidence in thier own abilities to succeed and move the chains.

Peyton's shrivels up and audibles to a running play. It's garbage. And he has done it year in year out. Had Brady won that game, everyone on TV would point to that audible as yet another btch call by Peyton, but they won so it has been buried. But not to experts that have watched Peyton fold under the pressure of the game being on the line, and delegating to everyone else to make the play, instead of being a true leader and making it happen himself.

Indianapolis Colts at 10:59
1-10-IND2 (10:59) E.James up the middle to IND 3 for 1 yard (J.Farrior).
2-9-IND3 (10:25) E.James left end to IND 13 for 10 yards (C.Hope, I.Taylor).
1-10-IND13 (9:48) E.James right end to IND 17 for 4 yards (C.Haggans, J.Farrior).
2-6-IND17 (9:10) P.Manning pass to D.Clark to IND 38 for 21 yards (I.Taylor).
1-10-IND38 (8:23) E.James left end pushed ob at PIT 47 for 15 yards (T.Polamalu).
1-10-PIT47 (7:55) P.Manning pass to B.Fletcher to PIT 36 for 11 yards (I.Taylor, T.Polamalu).
1-10-PIT36 (7:15) D.Rhodes left end to PIT 34 for 2 yards (J.Farrior, B.Keisel).
2-8-PIT34 (6:33) P.Manning pass to R.Wayne to PIT 30 for 4 yards (J.Farrior).
3-4-PIT30 (5:47) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass to B.Fletcher to PIT 23 for 7 yards (I.Taylor).
1-10-PIT23 (5:07) P.Manning pass to E.James to PIT 18 for 5 yards (J.Farrior, I.Taylor).
2-5-PIT18 (4:25) E.James right end pushed ob at PIT 9 for 9 yards (C.Hope, T.Polamalu).
1-9-PIT9 (3:57) E.James up the middle to PIT 7 for 2 yards (J.Farrior, L.Foote).
2-7-PIT7 (3:20) P.Manning pass to E.James to PIT 1 for 6 yards (L.Foote).
3-1-PIT1 (2:33) (Shotgun)
PENALTY on IND-T.Glenn, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 1 - No Play.
3-6-PIT6 (2:33) PENALTY on PIT-A.Smith, Neutral Zone Infraction, 3 yards, enforced at PIT 6 - No Play.
<b>3-3-PIT3 (2:00) E.James right end to PIT 2 for 1 yard (C.Haggans, T.Polamalu). </b>
4-2-PIT2 (1:23) M.Vanderjagt 20 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-J.Snow, Holder-H.Smith.

He'll probably do it this week in a crucial situation again. This time, under the Super Bowl microscope, it'll cost him worse than ever.

Have you ever watched Manning play football? His problem has always been NOT audibling to run plays. Seriously man, in your very last play, which was the only one I needed to read. Should Edge not be expected to pick up 3 yards on a 3rd and 3 for a TD. Elway would have been a bitch for expecting Davis to pick up a 3rd and 3 for a TD? Stop while your behind man.

[Cito Pelon]

Who's whining? It's just a fact. If he catches the ball in the endzone game over. He was mugged there too but whatever, calls go both ways over a course of the season.

The Title of the tread is what I was responding to.

If one ball is not dropped, by Caldwell, who I don't even fault for it because he played above himself this year...then it's Brady 4 Manning Zip. Just a fact.

So by having one ball dropped instead of caught, and we are talking about in his breadbasket in the endzone here, not some Hail Mary, Manning is NOW twice the QB of Brady?

No. Not even close.

Didn't that drive result in a TD anyway? One play later?

[Cito Pelon]

Why do people make this ish up? Seriously? Where do people hear this nonsense? Not just you but others I see do it too.

here ya go...take a look....don't always believe what jealous people tell you.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v126/sonsofkraftybob/patscoltslesson.jpg

Good post. I stand corrected. ^5

[yavoon]

LOL

What you just posted can be considered the REAL "infantile line of analysis". The point the owner of thread made was about the receivers Forrest.

and the post u made said "w/ brady's receivers peyton never gets here." which is IMO fanciful and ignorant because it leaves out the rest of the football team.

I'm not sure what kind of statement u were trying to make regarding brady/manning comparison by only comparing their receivers. which is also infantile.

[yavoon]

Again you have to turn to changing my words yavoon. It's weak.

As I said, I can point to at least 4 instances where it was 3rd and 4 or 5 either in the redzone or just out of it, where Peyton Manning audibled to a running play, which was of course stopped, and they had to settle for a FG.

It's a btch move for a great QB to make. A great QB or player like Elway, Brady, Montana, Marino, Bird, Jordan, or Magic are able to beat you even when you know it's coming.

Peyton is afraid to even try. He's a great QB no doubt. His play on Sunday was very good, and he made some great throws. But he still was afraid to screw up and pinned his hopes on the drive continuing on that 3rd and 5 I posted, and he audibled to a crappy running play.

QB's with great confidence and the will to win want the ball in thier hands, they want to be the one to decide the game, because they have the confidence in thier own abilities to succeed and move the chains.

Peyton's shrivels up and audibles to a running play. It's garbage. And he has done it year in year out. Had Brady won that game, everyone on TV would point to that audible as yet another btch call by Peyton, but they won so it has been buried. But not to experts that have watched Peyton fold under the pressure of the game being on the line, and delegating to everyone else to make the play, instead of being a true leader and making it happen himself.

Indianapolis Colts at 10:59
1-10-IND2 (10:59) E.James up the middle to IND 3 for 1 yard (J.Farrior).
2-9-IND3 (10:25) E.James left end to IND 13 for 10 yards (C.Hope, I.Taylor).
1-10-IND13 (9:48) E.James right end to IND 17 for 4 yards (C.Haggans, J.Farrior).
2-6-IND17 (9:10) P.Manning pass to D.Clark to IND 38 for 21 yards (I.Taylor).
1-10-IND38 (8:23) E.James left end pushed ob at PIT 47 for 15 yards (T.Polamalu).
1-10-PIT47 (7:55) P.Manning pass to B.Fletcher to PIT 36 for 11 yards (I.Taylor, T.Polamalu).
1-10-PIT36 (7:15) D.Rhodes left end to PIT 34 for 2 yards (J.Farrior, B.Keisel).
2-8-PIT34 (6:33) P.Manning pass to R.Wayne to PIT 30 for 4 yards (J.Farrior).
3-4-PIT30 (5:47) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass to B.Fletcher to PIT 23 for 7 yards (I.Taylor).
1-10-PIT23 (5:07) P.Manning pass to E.James to PIT 18 for 5 yards (J.Farrior, I.Taylor).
2-5-PIT18 (4:25) E.James right end pushed ob at PIT 9 for 9 yards (C.Hope, T.Polamalu).
1-9-PIT9 (3:57) E.James up the middle to PIT 7 for 2 yards (J.Farrior, L.Foote).
2-7-PIT7 (3:20) P.Manning pass to E.James to PIT 1 for 6 yards (L.Foote).
3-1-PIT1 (2:33) (Shotgun)
PENALTY on IND-T.Glenn, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 1 - No Play.
3-6-PIT6 (2:33) PENALTY on PIT-A.Smith, Neutral Zone Infraction, 3 yards, enforced at PIT 6 - No Play.
<b>3-3-PIT3 (2:00) E.James right end to PIT 2 for 1 yard (C.Haggans, T.Polamalu). </b>
4-2-PIT2 (1:23) M.Vanderjagt 20 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-J.Snow, Holder-H.Smith.

He'll probably do it this week in a crucial situation again. This time, under the Super Bowl microscope, it'll cost him worse than ever.

again I ask u how a qb who has reeled up a very impressive comeback record is "afraid to try." is he just so incredibly good that he can pull off these comebacks w/o trying?

dont lionize the man too much!

[fontaine]

was it clutch when brady got sacked and fumbled and saved by the tuck rule? was it clutch when he threw a pick to the chargers and the chargers player fumbled it?


If those are the only two examples you can come up with during the 12-2 (I think) playoff record Brady has then that's is a terribly weak a$$ argument.

I guess Montana wasn't clutch because Carl Banks speared into his back in the NFC Championship game and caused him to fumble the ball so the Giants could go ahead and win that game on a FG.

-see how "numbnutted" that was?

I really like brady but the analysis being used here is trivial. all the numbnutted retards saying "omg if he didnt have amazing wr's he wouldn't win anything ever." ignoring the other ~50 ppl on a football team. its just silly, and I hope they take their heads out of their asses long enough to realize it.

So you're avoiding the crux of the argument I'm making by calling out other people opinion's?

But I can understand why you did that and avoided the point I raised, because I'm not sure either why it took Manning so many playoff appearances to put in a clutch, game winning performance when Brady did time and again in his very first season as a starter.

The obvious signs point to Peyton Manning choking under playoff pressure, not being able to handle good 3-4 defenses in the playoffs etc. But I'm not so sure I buy that. There has got to be another reason why Manning has so consistently failed to play up to his own high standards in big games going back to his college days.

Any ideas?

[sonsofkraftybob]

Good post. I stand corrected. ^5

Dude, just for clarification....I took that pic from my home board at patriotsplanet where it was being used for trolls talking smack on the Colts dime.

So the "idiot" term was already in the picture. Hope you didn't think I was calling you an idiot.