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View Full Version : Wallstreet Journal: HD-DVD vs. Blue-Ray


RhymesayersDU
01-20-2007, 10:56 PM
Had to read this article for my marketing class. Thought a lot of you movie people who buy lots of DVDs might be interested, as well as people who just like to be on the cutting edge of technology.

How Dual-Format DVD Players May Prolong Duel; Consumers Get Little Incentive To Pick a Standard
Evan Ramstad in Seoul, South Korea, and Sarah McBride in Las Vegas. Wall Street Journal. New York, N.Y.: Jan 9, 2007. pg. B.3

In becoming the first manufacturer to build a machine that can play both formats of high-definition digital videodiscs, South Korea's LG Electronics Co. is likely to encourage a slew of rivals to also start making dual-format players.

That would free consumers from worrying about which of the two competing technologies -- Blu-ray and HD-DVD -- will emerge as the market standard for next-generation DVDs, which are designed to take advantage of better picture quality offered by high-definition TV sets.

But it doesn't mean the long-brewing HD format wars will end soon. In fact, consumer-electronics manufacturers and movie studios still will push their particular favorite format, because reputations and royalty payments on the underlying technology are at stake. Rather than help a winning format in the DVD war, dual-format players will likely enable the weaker technology to cling on for months or years longer in the marketplace than it otherwise could.

It also means studios must decide whether to release titles on dual- format discs instead of, or in addition to, the two existing formats.

LG took the wraps off the first machine to play discs in both Blu- ray and HD-DVD formats at this week's annual Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. The dual player is priced at $1,199, about twice the price of an HD-DVD player and slightly more than the average price of a Blu-ray player.

In another attempt to skirt the format battle, Time Warner Inc.'s Warner Brothers this week is expected to announce a design for a disc that can store a movie or other content in the HD-DVD format on one side and the Blu-ray format on the other side. The movie studio is trying to persuade others to package their movies, TV shows and other high-definition video that way instead of coming out with separate discs for the two formats. The dual-format disc is likely to hit the market toward year end, according to people familiar with the situation.

Retailers said they expect the dual-format options to jump-start slow sales of high-definition players and discs. "It will help reduce the confusion," said Randy Wick, senior vice president and general merchandising manager for consumer electronics at Circuit City Stores Inc.

Mike Vitelli, Best Buy Co.'s senior vice president for consumer electronics, said he is encouraging other DVD manufacturers to follow LG's example with a dual-format machine. "It's about giving consumers the confidence to get in the game," he said. "We can recommend to our customers, if you buy the LG machine, you're not going to be left out in the cold."

Although he didn't commit to supporting either of the dual-format approaches of LG and Warner Pictures, Universal Studios Home Entertainment President Craig Kornblau welcomed the developments. "These are both interesting solutions, and it's really important that we work toward a solution as quickly as possible," Mr. Kornblau said. Universal is releasing movies in HD-DVD, but not in Blu-ray. Universal Studios is owned by General Electric Co.

Consumer-electronics companies started rolling out separate Blu-ray and HD-DVD players about seven months ago. Sales have been slow. There were only a combined total of 225 HD titles available for use on the new machines as of mid-December, compared with more than 18,000 titles for regular DVD players. And consumers are hesitant to spend money when they aren't sure which format will end up surviving.

More buyers have access to next-generation DVD players through new game devices such as Sony Corp.'s PlayStation 3, which plays Blu-ray discs, and Microsoft Corp.'s Xbox, which has an accessory to play HD- DVDs.

Each side is promoting its gamer connections, which each hopes will pave the way to wide acceptance of their particular format. For example, in a new survey by Sony of more than 10,000 PS3 owners, more than 80% of respondents indicated that they planned to purchase Blu- ray movies for their PS3s, and about 75% of respondents said their PS3 would be a primary device for watching movies.

LG will begin shipping its product to stores this month. If consumers bite and more manufacturers jump in with similar products, competition and higher volumes are likely within a couple of years to bring prices down to a level that appeals to the mass market.

Persuading the bigger DVD-player manufacturers to follow suit, especially those already committed to one format or the other, may prove difficult. "I don't see a dual-format player as solving anything," said Andy Parsons, director of advanced product development at Pioneer Corp., which is selling a $1,500 Blu-ray player.

Many studio executives also panned the idea of a dual-format disc, saying the discs are likely to prove expensive and they were unsure how it would work. At Walt Disney Co., which is committed to the Blu- ray technology rather than HD-DVD, a spokesman said the studio wouldn't use the dual-format disc.

BroncoBuff
01-20-2007, 11:06 PM
I never knew LG was Korean .... how 'bout that?

This stuff is so "not gonna matter" soon ... digital cable/satelite movie delivery will be expanding exponentially in '09. Comcast claims they'll have 2500 titles available on demand ... and of course in HD if available.

Goobzilla
01-20-2007, 11:12 PM
I've got both format players so I don't care who wins. I do know that the Adult industry has embraced HD-DVD and that was a major factor in VHS defeating Beta back in the day.

MileHighMagic
01-21-2007, 01:01 AM
I do know that the Adult industry has embraced HD-DVD and that was a major factor in VHS defeating Beta back in the day.

Sweet! I am an HD-DVD guy. With the power of porn on our side, we can't lose.

Bronco Bob
01-21-2007, 02:31 AM
I've got both format players so I don't care who wins. I do know that the Adult industry has embraced HD-DVD and that was a major factor in VHS defeating Beta back in the day.

And in another shoot yourself in the foot move, I hear that Sony is refusing
to allow porn to be recorded in the Blu-Ray format. Maybe that is why
the Adult industry is embracing HD, they have no other choice. :afro:

Natedogg
01-21-2007, 07:25 AM
I support HDDVD. It has less drm. It has also already been cracked. This will help it win in the long run. Really I dont see any benefit to blueray "protecting me from myself."

watermock
01-21-2007, 09:25 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/160000/images/_164488_Copy_of_north_korean_leader_Kim_Jong_Il_15 0_ap_file.jpg

See...communism DOES work....

Bronco_Beerslug
01-21-2007, 09:49 AM
I never knew LG was Korean .... how 'bout that?

This stuff is so "not gonna matter" soon ... digital cable/satelite movie delivery will be expanding exponentially in '09. Comcast claims they'll have 2500 titles available on demand ... and of course in HD if available.
Sure it will, I would never pay the $4 to view their one time offerings. Sony can take their $1000 blu-ray players and sit on the sidelines just like Beta did.

Netflix and Blockbuster already offers blu-ray & HD-DVDs for rent, I'm just waiting for the recorders (PC) for HD-DVD to come out so I can "back up" the HD-DVDs.

alkemical
01-21-2007, 12:18 PM
Won't matter anyway. This "format" is just a bridge until solid-state media is full scale for the consumer market. Think about it, a 6gb SD card type device...
Maxell is coming out with a "holographic" storage device, where the data on the media is stored in a 3d environment.

I'd go HDDVD for now and wait on the market. Sony got a late start on the PS3 with bluray - and i think they do a good job of kicking themselves in the nuts sometimes.

BroncoBuff
01-23-2007, 05:59 AM
Maxell is coming out with a "holographic" storage device, where the data on the media is stored in a 3d environment.

Sounds like the Crichton novel/film Disclosure.

-Slap-
01-23-2007, 08:28 AM
Sweet! I am an HD-DVD guy. With the power of porn on our side, we can't lose.

Win one for the Hedgehog.

alkemical
01-23-2007, 10:46 AM
Sounds like the Crichton novel/film Disclosure.

Or the video that was stored on the "cube" in "The Running Man" or whatever it was with Ahnold.

Rock Chalk
01-23-2007, 01:13 PM
I've got both format players so I don't care who wins. I do know that the Adult industry has embraced HD-DVD and that was a major factor in VHS defeating Beta back in the day.

Define defeat? For the consumer? Yes, VHS beat Betamax.

But what many people do not know is that Betamax is still widely used in the commercial side. It was not a "failure" except for the consumer market. The video recording industry still uses the Betamax format to record video and considering that commercial players are much more expensive, they have made millions off that format.

Whichever format wins is likely to be the last format we have as on demand viewing and/or downloadable content is going to be the way most people watch movies in the future. JMO.

alkemical
01-23-2007, 01:40 PM
Define defeat? For the consumer? Yes, VHS beat Betamax.

But what many people do not know is that Betamax is still widely used in the commercial side. It was not a "failure" except for the consumer market. The video recording industry still uses the Betamax format to record video and considering that commercial players are much more expensive, they have made millions off that format.

Whichever format wins is likely to be the last format we have as on demand viewing and/or downloadable content is going to be the way most people watch movies in the future. JMO.

You still need backup-media/transportable media.

So as betamax is still used - a storage solution is still needed.

Drek
01-23-2007, 01:48 PM
Blu-Ray is far superior technology, the only thing holding it back is weaker codecs used with early discs. Thankfully it also has the vast majority of the movie industry behind it, so it should do well, and the PS3 offers the cheapest next generation media player on the market (which is why Sony's own players are still zonky expensive, they want you to buy a PS3 instead).

on demand/downloadable content isn't realistic at this point for 1080p HD either. The average american home is still very far away from having access to the bandwidth needed to download or stream a true HD signal. I think it could very well take a big bite out of the home video sales and rentals, but true A/V nuts want the added features of next gen disc formats, which is why this all is being made currently, old DVD just can't handle 1080p HD or 7.1 high def sound.

Bronco_Beerslug
01-23-2007, 02:01 PM
Blu-Ray is far superior technology, the only thing holding it back is weaker codecs used with early discs. Thankfully it also has the vast majority of the movie industry behind it, so it should do well, and the PS3 offers the cheapest next generation media player on the market (which is why Sony's own players are still zonky expensive, they want you to buy a PS3 instead).

on demand/downloadable content isn't realistic at this point for 1080p HD either. The average american home is still very far away from having access to the bandwidth needed to download or stream a true HD signal. I think it could very well take a big bite out of the home video sales and rentals, but true A/V nuts want the added features of next gen disc formats, which is why this all is being made currently, old DVD just can't handle 1080p HD or 7.1 high def sound.

Uh, not really. Have you checked out the studio lists for each lately? And HD-DVD has a far wider appeal right now to more people just based on player costs alone.

BroncoBuff
01-23-2007, 06:13 PM
Uh, not really. Have you checked out the studio lists for each lately? And HD-DVD has a far wider appeal right now to more people just based on player costs alone.

Wow .... that sounds like every Sony "maverick-format-that-died-in-the-marketplace" before. Beta, mini-disk, their rejected HDTV format, the fading Memory Stick, their 'revolutionary' 10-disk CD cartridge that was adopted by ZERO other manufacturers ... and one other Sony job I can't remember (video disk?). Same with Apple computers, too.

The marketplace does not necessarily gravitate to the best technology ... Historically, more people jump aboard whichever format saturates the market with cheap player costs and other hardware quicker.

Amem ... VHS? PC?

Now that I learned in this thread that Sony is behind Blu-Ray, I know to avoid it! ;D

.

Drek
01-23-2007, 06:14 PM
Uh, not really. Have you checked out the studio lists for each lately? And HD-DVD has a far wider appeal right now to more people just based on player costs alone.

Um, what does studio lists matter in regards to technology (the comment you bolded)? Having read the white papers on both Blu-Ray is hands down the better format. For studio support though the big kicker is that while most studios now are straddling both formats Sony obviously isn't. They own Columbia, TriStar, and recently acquired a large portion of MGM's catalog. That along with Fox staying fairly Blu-Ray loyal is one hell of an advantage over HD-DVD's exclusive stalwarts, New Line and Buena Vista.

You can also get a really nice BR player for $500 bucks, it also happens to be a really sweet game console. The price on players will drop to compare with HD-DVD quickly once Sony and their partners are happy with the PS3's trojan horse work.

2KBack
01-23-2007, 06:41 PM
Um, what does studio lists matter in regards to technology (the comment you bolded)? Having read the white papers on both Blu-Ray is hands down the better format. For studio support though the big kicker is that while most studios now are straddling both formats Sony obviously isn't. They own Columbia, TriStar, and recently acquired a large portion of MGM's catalog. That along with Fox staying fairly Blu-Ray loyal is one hell of an advantage over HD-DVD's exclusive stalwarts, New Line and Buena Vista.

You can also get a really nice BR player for $500 bucks, it also happens to be a really sweet game console. The price on players will drop to compare with HD-DVD quickly once Sony and their partners are happy with the PS3's trojan horse work.


your stretching the tech issue, the only difference between the two formats is the price and storage capacity, and the storage gap doesn't even exist yet. Theoretically the Blueray will eventually be able to hold more data, but currently it does not.

Mtbrncofn
01-23-2007, 07:35 PM
What the heck is Blu-Ray anyway? I've seen it a bunch and don't know what it is.