Stupid Cutler Article - Cutler = Grossman

[DeusExManning]

I did not see this posted, sorry if this is a duplicate.

Compared to NFL's cream, Cutler just milk
BERNIE LINCICOME



January 17, 2007 3:01 PM

Scripps-McClatchy Western Service

column

Scripps-McClatchy Western Service

Examining the four remaining playoff quarterbacks, the thought occurs that the Denver Broncos' young Jay Cutler has a very, very long way to go.

Assuming that this is the lowest acceptable level for the Broncos - the conference championship, a place that Jake Plummer had taken the Broncos and still could not keep his job - then this is the company Cutler must keep.

Peyton Manning. Drew Brees. Tom Brady. Rex Grossman.

OK. There is a little light there on that last one, except to point out that Grossman did take the Bears to 13-3 and that he, when it mattered, stepped up instead of back.



But the other three are inarguably the best three quarterbacks in football, with Brady and Manning flip and flop in any argument on the point. Brady gets the edge because he has three Super Bowl rings to Manning's none and, when the two of them meet, it is generally Manning who is asked to explain how Brady got the best of him again.

As for Brees, the best thing to ever happen to him was to get free of the constipated offense of San Diego and go to work for an ex-quarterback in Sean Payton rather than an ex-linebacker in Marty Schottenheimer.

Why this did not work for Plummer, who went from loose and lively to rigid and grim under Mike Shanahan, is clearly a case of working for the wrong ex-Eastern Illinois quarterback.

The result was the stuff of myth, and there New Orleans is the darling of all who love a good story.

When considering how far Cutler is behind any of the four, optimism reaches for the example of Brady, back when he was a sixth-round draft hunch pressed into action. Or, more commonly, that of Ben Roethlisberger and his rookie achievements.

Pragmatism, however, insists that the Brady and Roethlisberger models no longer work, since Cutler had some of that chance and lost more than he won, when one more win would have at least put the Broncos in the playoffs.

And as Shanahan has insisted, the Broncos are not aiming low but high, and they will get there faster with Cutler than without.

Here's what the Broncos are looking at with Cutler, just to get back where Plummer had taken them: at least three more seasons.

Taking the least of the final four, Grossman of the Bears, he spent three seasons out of the line of fire, due primarily to injury but still unexposed to football, starting just six games in three years before making it all the way through this season.

And, as has been widely and loudly pointed out, until last weekend's overtime survival of Seattle, Grossman had done nothing to inspire confidence in anyone but his coach, Lovie Smith, especially after a final season game statistical rating of 0.0.

So if Cutler is to match Grossman, and starting next season he will be at roughly the same point that Grossman was, what the Broncos need is an exceptional defense, a game-breaking kick returner, two dependable and interchangeable running backs and the dismal NFC Central division to play in.

As for the others, consider that among the three of them, they average seven years as starting quarterbacks, have 31 Pro Bowls among them, and together threw for 81 touchdowns this season.

It isn't that the other more pedigreed quarterbacks have been exceptional in the playoffs, because they have not, except for Brees.

Manning has felt it necessary to whine that it is not his fault that the Colts have won two games because the Colts defense has suddenly and inexplicably learned how to stop the run.

Manning has otherwise thrown interceptions and disconnected and been anything but the man who carried his team all year. But what you know is that he is still that same man. The criticism that follows Manning is that he cannot win the big one, while Cutler has yet to even get to a medium-size one.

Brady, too, has been less than his legend, which is to place him in his generation where Joe Montana was in his, but still Brady has done what he has always done, win in the postseason, losing only once, that to Plummer, for whatever that is worth.

Super Bowls have been won with bad quarterbacks and have been lost with good ones, the Broncos at least as good an example of that as are the Buffalo Bills.

Imagination allows that, one day, Cutler will be where these four are, but not soon, and not soon enough.

http://www.newspress.com/Top/Article/article.jsp?Section=SPORTS&ID=564947615994740760

[ludo21]

Obviously didnt watch any of our games this year.

I hate writers that dont watch then spew this crap.

[chickennob2]

That would be a wonderful argument if we were starting Cutler over Manning, Brady, or Brees. The only thing Plummer has in common with those is that he has NFL experience. But then again, so does Jeff George.

Cutler is the best we have right now. Cutler is the future. Accept it, or find a new team, Bernie Lencicome

[Jesterhole]

Dude doesn't make one good argument for any of his statements. Cutler is better than Grossman by leaps and bounds. Oh well, nothing to do but talk till next season...

[-Slap-]

You know, this article essentially sums up Lincicome as a writer. He's always been a notorious front runner and he'll be kissing Cutler's ass next year as hard as anyone.

[Wes Mantooth]

what the hell is this guy even talking about?

[24champ]

what the hell is this guy even talking about?

I was thinking the same thing, I read it like half-way through and was like what the **** is this?

[XXXII&III]

Take a look at the comments that people posted about ol' Bernie. They are quite nasty and rightfully so. I don't know how to link but it's in today's Rocky Mountain News.

[ton80]

Bernie drinks a cup of sour owl $hit for breakfast each morning.

[RhymesayersDU]

I didn't know mattbeymvp was actually Bernie Lincicome...

[Sassy]

Well, I would say Jay still has a lot to prove. He's won one game. I hope he does well...but we don't know that he won't be a bust...not yet.

[24champ]

:rofl:
"Wow, I can't believe you get paid for writing this junk. I have missed Kravitz every day since you took over for him and am glad the Post brought back Woody Paige so there is at least one decent columnist in Denver."

"Bernie Lincicome's columns are about as entertaining as a root canal. Can we find someone who actually likes the local sports teams to write for the paper?"
"BERNIE, YOU LOOK CONSTIPATED. SO GO HIT THE TOILET AND SHUT UP"

More comments here-

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/comment/0,1299,DRMN_83_85504,00.html

[ro_50]

I am growing sick and tired of idiot sports columnists and their takes.

[-Slap-]

He's even more annoying when the local team is winning. I swear, the way he talked **** during the Bulls championship runs, you would have thought he was on the team.

[Jetmeck]

Even the Chef fans are quaking in their boots at the thought of a 50-60 yard spiral landing in BM or JW's hands right on target. If the hard headed Chef variety can be convinced I am not worried. Cutler is a huge step in the right direction period. Where is this idiot writer ? He should be slapped about the head for even thinking of comparing Cutler to Grossman. Cutler has played five games? versus Grossman over several seasons.....what an idiot sportwriter.

[Bronco Billy]

He should be slapped about the head for even thinking of comparing Cutler to Grossman. Cutler has played five games? versus Grossman over several seasons.....what an idiot sportwriter.

This is the first season Grossman's made it through without getting injured, so he's practically a rookie in terms of game experience. However, I agree with your point. The writer's an idiot.

[usedupbraids]

what? where does this guy live im going to burn a bag of dog crap on his steps

[Crushaholic]

So if Cutler is to match Grossman, and starting next season he will be at roughly the same point that Grossman was, what the Broncos need is an exceptional defense, a game-breaking kick returner, two dependable and interchangeable running backs and the dismal NFC Central division to play in.

First of all, it's not the NFC Central anymore. Second of all, we play that division next year...^5

[rubaiyat]

So the gist is that Cutler hasn't passed for 27 TD's, had multiple Pro Bowls, and post season success?

Well only one of the Qb's listed has had any postseason success that matters.

And since he's only started 5 games, I didn't really predict a Pro Bowl year...

Nor more than 6 TD's as it took breaking a record to get as many as Cutler ended up getting

[Paladin]

Bernie has his moments.... He is always a bit cockeyed and off beat. His shtick is to create controversy and then later feed off the "controversy", citing other members of the fringe element of sports who may agree with him or at least cite him is an article. He is in desperate need to do something because he has been a terrible bust at the Rocky and I do not believe he gets much press anywhere. Even Burger Bill gets more attention than he does, With Woody back, the other guys take a hit over who is the top writer in town.

Personally, I do not care much for most of them except for Jim Armstrong and an occasional Woody. (heh, heh)

[-Slap-]

You find examples of better sportswriting on message boards like this one every single day than you generally find at most major newspapers throughout the country.

[24champ]

Well, I would say Jay still has a lot to prove. He's won one game. I hope he does well...but we don't know that he won't be a bust...not yet.

I seem to remember Cutler doing the improbable against SD in SD. We were down what 28-3? I remember seeing Cutler leading a desperate comeback to lead this team within ONE score. We just got a glimpse of what Cutler can do that day...I think he just scratched the surface of his potential. Shanahan worked well with QBs like Montana, Young, Elway, Plummer etc. I don't see where Cutler will be a bust...he isn't Greise thank god.

[Broncos4Life]

What a horrible article. This guy is a piece of **** with nothing better to write about!

[Paladin]

Sassy has a point. though. Most seem to extol the "potential" they see in this young man, but he still has to walk the walk. It will not be until he pulls out three or so fourth quarter comeback wins or such before he will "come of age" as a pro QB. The media type - whom none of us give a rat's arse what they think or write, right? - won't give him anything because he is the anti-Vince and the anti-Matt QB. He might even be the anti-Brady.

He'll get a chance to play against Tennessee next year, and Vince will be given the "favorite's" role. If Cutler beats the Titan's D like a drum, then the sentiments might turn a bit different. In fact, I think the national Media resented Shanahan for drafting him and that resentment transfers to Cutler as well.

Yet when fans of other teams see him play, there is usually an "Oh, sh&t!" comment that comes from them. That's a better gage right now than any comments made by sportwriters who never played the game.......

[Clockwork Orange]

Pretty standard Lincicome article. I think the only reason they keep him around is because he makes Mark Kiszla's work look good by comparison.

[bpc]

Yawwwwwn...

Cutler is by far the least of my concerns going into next season. Is that the arrogance of a Bronco fan? I thought he played great for getting his first action with just 5 games left in the season.

He will be a lot more polished up going into next season.

[SportinOne]

If Cutler hadn't had a concussion in that final game we would have made the playoffs. Case closed. Jake doesn't come in and stink it up, and Jay most likely doesn't throw that pick 6.

Now, the writer does have a point... kind of. It's just the same as when the analysts talk about games before hand, how each team must do this and this and that and that, and then boom, the game has nothing to do with what they were talking about. The game is simple but predicting things like this is impossible.

We are going to throw the ball more with Jay. We are going to see more and more 300 yard passing games and that gets me excited. But i'm also excited about how that will help out our run game.

Another thing that this writer forgot... Before Jake's fluke year (also known as one of the greatest coaching masterpieces in the history of the NFL.. thanks Mike and Gary) Jake had something like a 19/19 TD/INT ratio. I feel VERY comfortable saying that Jay will never "accomplish" anything near that. Probably, he'll have his worst statistical years this year, next year, and then some off year down the road, but he'll still probably double up his INT totals with TD's. 23/13, 24/12... something like that. I wouldn't be at all shocked to see him hit 30 next year.

I also wouldn't be at all shocked to see a small and somewhat dissapointing amount of improvement. That just might happen, and if it does, fine. He's still better than half the quarterbacks in the league.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Well, I would say Jay still has a lot to prove. He's won one game. I hope he does well...but we don't know that he won't be a bust...not yet.
He won two games...and he brought us back to a tie in another and the defense and special teams lost it at the end, not to mention the comeback effort against SD as well. More to the point, if you can't see the obvious...that this guy's nowhere close to being conidered for bust territory then you're simply unwilling to see it. Let the Jake love die...his time is past and he's not coming back.

The article's a joke. Why would anyone with even a smattering of common sense, let alone knowledge of the NFL game...even consider putting a rookie with 5 games of experience under the same microscope as Manning, Brady and Brees...or be idiotic enough to compare what has been an impressive debut from Cutler to the deer in the headlights act we've seen from Grossman?

Of all the foolilsh stuff I've read on this board about Jay, I'm hard pressed to remember anything stupider than what this guy got paid to write.

[Killericon]

Okay...so the guy figures an article about how Cutler is not as good as Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, and Tom Brady is groundbreaking?

Right...

[Odysseus]

I hope they write 100 articles like this and hand them out to each player in the Broncos locker room and ask them one question. "Is this true?" It's offseason. This is primetime for sportwriters to victimize the uneducated, torment players, and to generally set themselves up to appear much smarter than they ever really are.

[watermock]

Unbelievable. Grossman rolls a 0.0 rating and he's better than a kid thrown into the fray after 8 games. I'm still pissed at that lazy Foster...hell...give me a holding penalty and 10 yards instead of playing Matador/Turnstyle.

I know for a fact Jay took a beating at Vandy. I don't know if he had concussions there but I would imagine so...each one is cumulative. It would be a shame if he has to retire before his time.

Stupid Jake...If he hadn't laid a turd he would of played out the game. Dammed if you do damned if you don't. All I know is Jay wasn't right and should of sat out at least one more series.

The last thing you do is ask a QB like Cutler if he can go back in. That should be up to the doctor, not Jay or a coach. Of course...we all know what the doctor would of said. "Sit him down". When I saw Jay bang his head I besically gave up on the season. The only hope would of been a Jake reincarnation to 05 form.

I have read alot of crap articles but this one takes the cake. Only Biker Boy played as a rookie and he was protected. Grossman, Brees and Brady didn't play in their first years...Grossman is in his 4th year, pitches a 0.0

Maybe Lincolme should check his stats. Jay had a 88 rating and 9/5 TD/INT ratio. Grossman ended with 72.4, 23/20 with defense and special teams saving his ass.

I'm not sure I have ever read an article so stupid in my life, and I read PFT.

[watermock]

I hope they write 100 articles like this and hand them out to each player in the Broncos locker room and ask them one question. "Is this true?" It's offseason. This is primetime for sportwriters to victimize the uneducated, torment players, and to generally set themselves up to appear much smarter than they ever really are.

Slappy is right...we have several more knowlegable writers here basically giving good takes for free. They paid that guy to write that tripe.

Slappy is the Shwab here, Herc the cap meister, Kaylor the spy, Meck the gracious tailgate host...(He will be back...he's busy with his three legged ranch...and Mediator, Otis (me I guess) and many many others So Cal's analysis comes to mind...I feel like at the oscars or something, being long winded...there are many others, and of course, the Grand Poohbah Taco who has kept the site running despite some rough finances, first child and a job change.

Who knows how many writers and players lurk amongst us. Couple years ago Woody wrote an article I know he stole from my comments...call it arrogance, but it was so similar it was obvious...maybe not..it's not important.

We can only go by what we can see and read...these clowns are supposed to have the "inside scoop" but usually it's just whining. He doesn't even bother to mention Cutler's concussion. If he want's to demand something, how about something that will keep Cutler from having more than a three year career due to concussions. The "writer" doesn't even mention his concussion or his 99 yard drive or how Hester pulled Grossman's ass out of the fire multiple times after a defensive stop.

Rant over.

[watermock]

This clown really pissed me off. I'm still pissed off...Your talking about All Pro QB's! Let's compare Jay to those after 5 games as a rookie with a turnstile at RT.

Nothing from the writer to mention Jays concussion, Jake's turd in relief, or how Chicago's D and Hester pulled his ass out of the fire multiple times. I'm ranting. Let's compare Cutler to Tom Terrific after 5 games. Both Manning and Brady have been in the league for years now, with the same teams. This is Grossman's 4th year, Brees 6th. Manning's 9th. Brady's 7th.

Nice comparisons.

[SPORTSWRITER]

I am growing sick and tired of idiot sports columnists and their takes.

Bernie Lincicome absolutely thrives on controversy and seems to have multiples at the very thought of writing disgusting, critical columns about anything or anyone within which or whom Bronco fans find optimism or hope by enthusiastically supporting.

I've sent him and Mike Klis lots of mail requesting explanations for their unethical and/or completely illogical BS articles, and have yet to have either respond in defense of such nonsense! Woody Paige now back with the Post p-t I enjoy, and Adam Schefter is missed, though I still catch him on NFL Network. Only other reporter I enjoy is cartoonist Drew Litton. He does great work daily in the RMN.

[watermock]

I called Bronco headquarters and I think I got thru to the Greek...I asked him to put that new helmet on Jay...I imagine the recptionist caught holy hell...heh...I'm pretty good at acting important on the phone.

"Where did you get this number?" Click. At least I gave my opinion. Better a bit of a goofy helmet than a bruised brain.

The newer generation doesn't look as bobblehead and I think we should get Jay in a concussion resistant helmet. He had no right being on the field. Of course, neither did Jake for that matter.

[Florida_Bronco]

I called Bronco headquarters and I think I got thru to the Greek...I asked him to put that new helmet on Jay...I imagine the recptionist caught holy hell...heh...I'm pretty good at acting important on the phone.

"Where did you get this number?" Click. At least I gave my opinion. Better a bit of a goofy helmet than a bruised brain.

The newer generation doesn't look as bobblehead and I think we should get Jay in a concussion resistant helmet. He had no right being on the field. Of course, neither did Jake for that matter.

I hate those new helmets, they are downright god awful ugly. As far as protection, to my understanding the only thing they really offer is that extra little bit of jaw protection.

[watermock]

They have slots at the top to release air on impact. Tons of college players allready wear the newer generation. They don't look like the first generation. It's not jaw protection at all.

[watermock]

Newer football helmet technology and design may reduce the incidence of concussions in high school football players, according to results from the first phase of a three-year study by the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center's (UPMC) Sports Medicine Concussion Program. The current study compared concussion rates and recovery times of high school athletes wearing newer helmet technology to those wearing helmets with traditional designs. There was no significant difference in recovery time between the two helmet groups.

Published in the February issue of the scientific journal Neurosurgery, the UPMC study of more than 2,000 high school football players is the first on-the-field investigation to compare concussion rates and recovery times for high school football players wearing the Riddell? Revolution helmet, with its newer technology and design, to concussion rates and recovery times for players wearing standard helmets with traditional design.

Across the three years of this initial study, the annual concussion rate was 5.4 percent in athletes wearing the Revolution helmet, compared to a 7.6 annual percent rate in athletes wearing standard helmets, representing a 2.3 percent decreased absolute risk of concussion for high school football players. In terms of relative risk, Revolution wearers were 31 percent less likely to sustain a concussion compared to athletes who wore standard football helmets.

The Revolution helmet, manufactured and introduced by Riddell in 2002, was developed with the intent of reducing the incidence and severity of concussion. The design features and engineering specifications of the helmet were formulated after several years of biomechanical laboratory testing. The current study compared the new Revolution helmet versus models of traditional design from Riddell and other manufacturers that were on the market prior to 2002.

"This study, the first to look at how the newer designed helmets performed in the field under real circumstances, provides preliminary evidence that the new helmet technology might substantially reduce, though certainly not prevent, the occurrence and incidence of concussion in high school football players," said principal investigator Micky Collins, Ph.D. "Overall preliminary findings are quite encouraging, and we will continue these studies over the next several years," added Dr. Collins, who is assistant director of the UPMC Sports Medicine Concussion Program.

"Prior to this study, research evaluating the effectiveness of helmet design in reducing concussions was performed only in biomechanical laboratory settings. We applaud Riddell for its long-term dedication to research aimed at reducing the effects of what can be a very serious and common injury, and for actively supporting continued on-the-field investigations," said study co-author Mark Lovell, Ph.D. "By continuing this type of study long term, we will be able to obtain essential real-life data and increase our knowledge and understanding of how sports helmet technology and design may be effective in reducing the incidence of concussions in athletes," said Dr. Lovell, who is director of the UPMC program.

The large-scale observational naturalistic study was conducted by the UPMC Sports Medicine Concussion Program with funding support from Riddell. The research took place over the course of three consecutive football seasons from 2002 to 2004 and involved more than 2,000 football players from 17 high schools in western Pennsylvania for which UPMC directs an ongoing individualized clinical concussion management program.

No differences in recovery time with newer helmet technology: Proper management of concussion is critical

The concussions that occurred during the study were diagnosed by teams' certified athletic trainers or physicians who were present on the sidelines at the time of injury. Athletes were assessed with ImPACT(Immediate Post-Concussion Assessment and Cognitive Testing) to monitor injury effects and recovery and assist with decisions regarding return-to-play. ImPACT is the most widely used computerized neurocognitive test battery that evaluates cognitive functions such as memory, information processing speed and reaction time, as well as symptom levels, all of which can be affected by concussion. Athletes can complete the test on a laptop or desktop computer within about 30 minutes. Most of the athletes in the study had completed the ImPACT battery during the pre-season, which served as a baseline for comparison once a concussion was sustained.

Concussed athletes were followed and treated clinically by the UPMC Sports Medicine Concussion Program. Generally, the athletes were clinically evaluated within 72 hours of injury, then at approximately 1, 2 and 3 weeks post-injury. In some cases, longer-term follow-up and evaluation was needed. Consistent with international concussion management guidelines, no athlete was returned to play until ImPACT scores indicated recovery of cognitive functioning, and the athlete was symptom free both at rest and with physical activity.

In examining the recovery rates between the Revolution and traditional helmet samples, there were no statistical differences found in terms of length of recovery required. Thus, helmet technology played no significant role in rate of recovery in these high school athletes, according to the authors. Across both helmet groups, only 50 percent of the athletes recovered within the first week of injury. Approximately 70 percent had recovered within two weeks, and approximately 15 percent required three or more weeks to fully recover from their sustained concussions. Results also revealed that the two helmet groups did not differ significantly regarding mechanism of injury, region of helmet struck or presence of on-field signs and symptoms of concussion.

"These findings reaffirm numerous previously published studies indicating that careful concussion evaluation and management is absolutely essential for safe return to play," stressed Dr. Collins. "Perhaps the most striking finding of our study is that even seemingly mild concussions often required weeks for recovery to be complete. Our current and previous data clearly debunk the myth that 'getting one's bell rung' is an innocuous event. In fact, what appeared to be the mildest injuries on the field often required the longest recovery periods."

UPMC researchers were first to publish such findings, involving severity and recovery of "bell ringers" in high school athletes, in the January 2003 issue of the Journal of Neurosurgery and January 2004 issue of the American Journal of Sports Medicine.

Concussion is any change in mental status resulting from the brain being jolted inside of the skull due to a blow to the head or upper body. "Generally, an athlete who sustains an initial concussion can fully recover as long as the brain has had time to heal before sustaining another hit," explained Dr. Collins. "A concussed athlete should never be allowed to return to contact play until he or she is completely recovered. The tricky part is that concussion signs and symptoms are not always straightforward, therefore the effects and severity of injury and safe return-to-play can be difficult to determine without careful clinical evaluation of symptoms and objective data about cognitive functioning that can be obtained using ImPACT."

"Our current understanding of the biomechanics, injury markers and symptoms, and recovery of sports-related concussion is advancing rapidly through research efforts around the world. Potential fruits of these efforts are advances in helmet technology and well-designed and controlled field studies. Clearly at this point, no helmet or other technology is available to prevent concussions from occurring, but it is exciting to see that definite strides are being made from both an equipment and clinical management perspective, aimed at reducing the incidence and severity of concussive injury," said study co-author Joseph Maroon, M.D., professor of neurological surgery at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine.

Other authors of the study are Grant L. Iverson, Ph.D., Department of Psychiatry, University of British Columbia; and Thad Ide, Research and Product Development, Riddell, Inc.

Note to editors: For information on additional published clinical research by the UPMC Sports Medicine Concussion Program involving sports-related concussion in high school athletes, please access newsbureau.upmc.com/MediaKits/ConcussionMain.htm.

Susan Manko
MankoSM@upmc.edu

Frank Raczkiewicz
RaczkiewiczFA@upmc.edu

University of Pittsburgh Medical Center
http://www.upmc.edu

[watermock]

mike and MIKE are talking about how Andre Waters had the brain of an 85 year old before his suicide.

[broncogary]

mike and MIKE are talking about how Andre Waters had the brain of an 85 year old before his suicide.

Scary, isn't it? :~ohyah!:

[rbackfactory80]

Manning and Brady are combined for like 10 picks and a 50 something passer rating. Good luck posting those kind of numbers Jay.

[dbfan21]

After reading this article, all I can think of is that line from the movie, Billy Madison, where he rambles off some nonsense at the knowledge contest and the Principal says:

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

Bernie Linicome, this one's for you!

[Tom A Hawk]

Well, I would say Jay still has a lot to prove. He's won one game. I hope he does well...but we don't know that he won't be a bust...not yet.


there may be no such thing as a sure thing, but I am pretty certain Cutler will not be a bust.

[watermock]

If Jay would of had the Bears defense and special teams, he would of been 4-1. Easily...Grossman got a win with a 0.0 rating.

[ukbroncosfan]

Jay Cutler will be the biggest question mark in the offseason because he's unproven.

[Rock Chalk]

Seems to me all Bernie said is that Cutler has a ways to go to be where those guys are at right now.

In fact, he predicts about 3 years before Cutler takes us to the Conference Championship game.

I didnt read any hate toward Cutler. The comparison to Grossman indicated that to perform as poorly as Grossman has, Cutler will need a great defense, outstanding special teams and a poor division to play in. I didnt see him say cutler was equal to Grossman anywhere. And whether you want to believe it or not, cutler is a LONG way from Brady, Manning or Brees at this point in time.

You people think someone writes an article that isnt sucking off Cutler like the lot of you, that he is somehow badmouthing him. All of you, particularly Slap and that dip**** DeusExShanahan need to take reading comprehension classes.

[Old Dude]

So if Cutler is to match Grossman, and starting next season he will be at roughly the same point that Grossman was, what the Broncos need is an exceptional defense, a game-breaking kick returner, two dependable and interchangeable running backs and the dismal NFC Central division to play in.
...


Well, maybe Cutler will exceed Grossman. Not an impossible concept. And let's note that he kind of skipped over the receiving corps. Javon has all-pro potential, Rod may have something left in the tank. Marshall and Sheffler showed some encouraging potential. Cutler does have a few weapons in the passing game, and they should be shrper next year.

I'm also sure the RB situation will improve. And as far as the Bears go, Cedric Benson hasn't really been all that. I'd also add that, when healthy, Denver's O-Line is superior to Chicago's. Losing Lepsis for the season was a significant blow.

We don't need the Chicago D to make it deep into the playoffs next year.

[Florida_Bronco]

All of you, particularly Slap and that dip**** DeusExShanahan need to take reading comprehension classes.

DeusExShanahan said nothing about the article except for calling it "stupid" in the title.

What was that you were saying about reading comprehension, Alec?

[Bronco Billy]

I know for a fact Jay took a beating at Vandy. I don't know if he had concussions there but I would imagine so...each one is cumulative. It would be a shame if he has to retire before his time.


I'm worried about the same thing. BTW, is Lincicome out of Denver or is he national? Denver has really bad sportswriters. Not that anywhere else is better. We have Jay Mariotti over here - thank you Denver. :hitself: At least I can read Rick Telander - he's good some of the time.

[Rigs11]

Cutler has proved nothing so far. yeah he has a great arm but less than impressive scrambling abilities.He will not get any respect from writers until he actually does something.All the knobslobering around here is hilarious.

[Rohirrim]

I think Lincicome and Kizla are running a competition for Biggest Jagoff in Denver. This puts Bernie ahead by a nose.

[Florida_Bronco]

Cutler has proved nothing so far. yeah he has a great arm but less than impressive scrambling abilities.He will not get any respect from writers until he actually does something.All the knobslobering around here is hilarious.

He can scramble just fine, I think it's just gonna take him time to adjust to the NFL game speed.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Cutler has proved nothing so far. yeah he has a great arm but less than impressive scrambling abilities.He will not get any respect from writers until he actually does something.All the knobslobering around here is hilarious.
He's proven he's better than Jake, which...granted though...is pretty much nothing.

What would you like a rookie to prove 5 games into his career?

[Sassy]

He's proven he's better than Jake, which...granted though...is pretty much nothing.

What would you like a rookie to prove 5 games into his career?

...and five games into his career...how can you say he's better than Jake? (Not to get this into a Jay Vs. Jake thing again...I would say that about any QB in the league...five games is nothing.)

You can't even say he's better or worse than Grossman.

[fontaine]

An article poorly stating the very obvious that a rookie QB is not Brady/Manning or Brees yet, followed by a three page thread discussing it?

Damn, I hate offseason!

I was hoping the QB wars would keep the offseason interesting, but that damn Cutler kid seems to have squashed any controversy by his play.

Well at least Plummer ended his career here in Denver like he started it. By throwing an interception.

If Culter had started from week 1, we would all be looking forward to the AFC Championship game, but Plummer's gutless season ended that for us.

(Ducks behind his computer)


:wiggle:

[Rigs11]

He's proven he's better than Jake, which...granted though...is pretty much nothing.

What would you like a rookie to prove 5 games into his career?

My point exactly. He hasn't proven anything yet.He still has not proven that he is better than Jake. When he takes us past the AFC championship to the superbowl then you can make that statement.

[Bronco Billy]

Cutler has proved nothing so far. yeah he has a great arm but less than impressive scrambling abilities.He will not get any respect from writers until he actually does something.All the knobslobering around here is hilarious.

You got to believe or have faith in something and we believe in Cutler.

[footstepsfrom#27]

My point exactly. He hasn't proven anything yet.He still has not proven that he is better than Jake. When he takes us past the AFC championship to the superbowl then you can make that statement.
Last I looked he was the starter and Jake's looking for another team...so yeah...at this point in time he is better than Jake. You're eyes ought to tell you that.

[footstepsfrom#27]

...and five games into his career...how can you say he's better than Jake? (Not to get this into a Jay Vs. Jake thing again...I would say that about any QB in the league...five games is nothing.)

You can't even say he's better or worse than Grossman.
I just did.

[Bronco Billy]

...and five games into his career...how can you say he's better than Jake? (Not to get this into a Jay Vs. Jake thing again...I would say that about any QB in the league...five games is nothing.)

You can't even say he's better or worse than Grossman.

Sassy, you know I watch the Bears every week. Cutler is definitely better right now than Grossman.

[DeusExManning]

Seems to me all Bernie said is that Cutler has a ways to go to be where those guys are at right now.

In fact, he predicts about 3 years before Cutler takes us to the Conference Championship game.

I didnt read any hate toward Cutler. The comparison to Grossman indicated that to perform as poorly as Grossman has, Cutler will need a great defense, outstanding special teams and a poor division to play in. I didnt see him say cutler was equal to Grossman anywhere. And whether you want to believe it or not, cutler is a LONG way from Brady, Manning or Brees at this point in time.

You people think someone writes an article that isnt sucking off Cutler like the lot of you, that he is somehow badmouthing him. All of you, particularly Slap and that dip**** DeusExShanahan need to take reading comprehension classes.

Alec, I just posted the article, my opinion on it is that Rex Grossman has nothing to do with Cutler. He is far more polished and this situation is far different. Was there a reason to make yet another personal insult Alec.

[Florida_Bronco]

Alec, I just posted the article, my opinion on it is that Rex Grossman has nothing to do with Cutler. He is far more polished and this situation is far different. Was there a reason to make yet another personal insult Alec.

See post #48 :thumbsup:

[watermock]

Alec, I just posted the article, my opinion on it is that Rex Grossman has nothing to do with Cutler. He is far more polished and this situation is far different. Was there a reason to make yet another personal insult Alec.

Put that one in the bank.anyone who take's alec seriously is as deranged as he is.

Alec is manical hostile.

[sirhcyennek81]

Jay has 5 games worth of experience. His upside is alot better then Grossman's. Both are solid QB's at the moment. Next year will be an interesting year.

:Broncos:

[Imdkeeper]

Lincicome never has anything good to say... Kinda like grumpy smurf... What a prick... And he does it at a time where he knows few arrows will be fired back at him... By next season this article will be long forgotten. By the end of the season next year, after Cutler HAS A CHANCE to prove himself, Lincicome will be eating a steady diet of what appears to be his favorite dish.... crow.

[XXXII&III]

I absolutely can't stand that negative dickhead. Lincicome never, ever writes anything positive about the Broncos. But he wrote a column earlier this week, or last week, just prior to his Cutler-bashing column, where he falls all over himself praising the Saints. I could hardly believe it was the same author, as I am so used to reading his slams against Denver.

Since it wasn't his current column I couldn't find anyplace to submit my comments. I was going to suggest he get the fork out of Denver and go to N'awlins where he can stick his nose up their collective asses in person.

[broncosteven]

If anyone equals Grossgrrl it is Plummer.

One thing I have noticed is both QB's do not seem to throw back to back INT's. They bounce back from Mistakes rather well but they play scared at start of big games & that hurts them. They also have trouble with finding passing lanes at times.

Rex is more pocket passer whereas Jake is not, Rex is also shorter, otherwise they are bothers.

[Clockwork Orange]

You can't even say he's better or worse than Grossman.

I can. He's better than Rex Grossman and it's not even close.

[Sassy]

I can. He's better than Rex Grossman and it's not even close.

He MIGHT be better than Grossman EVENTUALLY...but how can you say that now after only five games? ??? That's crazy.

[Bronco Billy]

He MIGHT be better than Grossman EVENTUALLY...but how can you say that now after only five games? ??? That's crazy.

You can say it after only 5 games because Cutler's THAT much better! Grossman had a good game last week, but Bears' fans have been calling for Griese the entire second half of the season and they're 13-3!

[Sassy]

Many also thought Ryan Leaf would be better than Paymeaton.

[Clockwork Orange]

He MIGHT be better than Grossman EVENTUALLY...but how can you say that now after only five games? ??? That's crazy.

It's not crazy, it's actually pretty obvious.

Grossman has been in the league three years and his decision making is worse than the rookie Cutler's was. Cutler also has superior physical skills across the board.

Ask Bears fans who they'd rather have under center. Remember, these are the people who were calling for Brian Griese to step in this season.

[Clockwork Orange]

Many also thought Ryan Leaf would be better than Paymeaton.

That was before either of them had played in the NFL.

[Sassy]

All I'm saying is he can look fairly good now...but we don't know what will happen next year. That's all I'm saying...

[broncosteven]

I can see why Angelo loves Grossgrrl. He can make accurate deep throws if protected. I would not hitch my career to the kid but they have.

I would hitch my career to Jay. He has a stronger arm, can make all the throws, has more size, is smarter with the ball, Stronger, some mobility (i still have not been as impressed with that part of his game), and can sling it 60 yards and hit a a dime.

I would not bring Jay down & compare him to anyone yet. let him develop into his own personna. The greeks had many gods, each with their own powers. Let us bask in the glow of our young Adonis

[footstepsfrom#27]

He MIGHT be better than Grossman EVENTUALLY...but how can you say that now after only five games? ??? That's crazy.
I can say it because I've watched the NFL for 4 decades.

[DeusExManning]

I can say it because I've watched the NFL for 4 decades.

Exactly after watching the NFL since the 70s it becomes clear who will be a good quarterback almost instantly. I have seen enough of JC to say with all confidence he will be a great quarterback. He has things to work on, so did Montana, Elway, and Manning.

[DeusExManning]

The point isn't that Cutler is great but that Grossman is terrible. Seriously. He gets lucky on the long balls because he has some fast receivers, I have watched enough of Grossman to know that I would rather have Cutler. Alec, Am I a dip**** for saying this? Go ahead, take a shot.

[Bronx33]

Another Lincicome article is nearing completion
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/990/bustersquatvariation1axi8.jpg

[Florida_Bronco]

The point isn't that Cutler is great but that Grossman is terrible. Seriously. He gets lucky on the long balls because he has some fast receivers, I have watched enough of Grossman to know that I would rather have Cutler. Alec, Am I a dip**** for saying this? Go ahead, take a shot.

I doubt Alec will show his face in this thread after how stupid he looked.

[Bronco Bob]

Well, I would say Jay still has a lot to prove. He's won one game. I hope he does well...but we don't know that he won't be a bust...not yet.

Two games.

[Sassy]

Two games.

I know...forgot about the Bungals. :)

[24champ]

Sassy did the offense look better under Plummer or Cutler this year?

[Atlas]

I can say it because I've watched the NFL for 4 decades.
So what you're saying is that you can't remember sh!t because Alzheimers has set in!! LOL

[footstepsfrom#27]

So what you're saying is that you can't remember sh!t because Alzheimers has set in!! LOL
No I've got about 30 years before that starts. I'll probably check out sometime before that point.

[Rigs11]

I can say it because I've watched the NFL for 4 decades.

Wow.That is the dumbest thing I've read in..sheesh..I don't know how long. We are all dumber thanks to you.:thumbsup:

[Rigs11]

Sassy did the offense look better under Plummer or Cutler this year?

Which games does Plummer get?The good ones or bad ones?

[footstepsfrom#27]

Wow.That is the dumbest thing I've read in..sheesh..I don't know how long. We are all dumber thanks to you.:thumbsup:
So you don't think watching QB's from Dawson, Unitas and Tarkenton until now has any value in knowing when you're looking at the real thing...is that what you're saying? If so you're the one looking dumb.

With the exception of Dan Marino in his rookie year, Cutler looks as good as any rookie I've ever seen in this game. Guess that's irrelevant though...

Anything to keep propping up the failed bit called Jake...

[Rigs11]

So you don't think watching QB's from Dawson, Unitas and Tarkenton until now has any value in knowing when you're looking at the real thing...is that what you're saying? If so you're the one looking dumb.

With the exception of Dan Marino in his rookie year, Cutler looks as good as any rookie I've ever seen in this game. Guess that's irrelevant though...

Anything to keep propping up the failed bit called Jake...

5 games in and you're calling him a messiah. Based on what? That he can throw a more beautiful int than jake?Oh that's right you're an expert because you've been watching football for 40 years. Lay off the ego man.it's all speculation right now.Cutler hasn't proven jack shet yet.Hell how many games has he won? You guys cry like pansies when ever someone questions the great rookie.

[footstepsfrom#27]

5 games in and you're calling him a messiah. Based on what? That he can throw a more beautiful int than jake?Oh that's right you're an expert because you've been watching football for 40 years. Lay off the ego man.it's all speculation right now.Cutler hasn't proven jack shet yet.Hell how many games has he won? You guys cry like pansies when ever someone questions the great rookie.
Guess you have a reading comprehension problem.

I was asked how I can say he's better than...get this...

REX GROSSMANLOL

Does he equate to anybody's definition of a football "messiah" in your mind?...HMMM?...a guy with 7 career starts in 3 year prior to this season who threw 20 INT's this year and has a very Jake-like career QB rating of 74.4. I responded that I can say he looks better than Grossman because I've seen a lot of guys play in the league...is there some other criteria you think I might use to make a determination like that? Or is it simply invalid because you say it is? Or because nobody should dare compliment the kid since he took the great Jake the Fake's job away like a playground bully snatching some whiney little punks lunch money? Whatever...it's got nothing to do with "ego"...it's simply how I or anyone else in here makes value judgements...based on what we see. If I say I've seen a lot of QB's play and ought to recognize good ones from bad ones, what exactly is "ego" about that?

Cutler has elite measurables and obvious intangibles that Grossman does not, and if you don't recognize that you're simply not paying attention or don't know much about the game. Cutler has already played better in 5 games...tossed into the mix in the middle of a playoff fight without even the benefit of having run the offense in practice...never having even taken a live snap from Nalen...given a complicated offense to run...and his performances easily surpass what we've seen from Rex Grossman either this season or in his previous 3 years in the league. Wins are highly missleading. Jake played with a defense on pace to set NFL records for TD's surrendered for 9 games before they folded. Cutler played with a defense that couldn't stop anyone...and the defense gave up the winning point in the game against San Francisco after he brought them back late in the game.

Yet none of that matters to you.

Since you dispute my observation that Cutler's rookie year looked as good as any rookie in the league with the exception of Marino...far better than Elway BTW...please tell me which QB's you've observed since the 1983 season that you think had better rookie years than Jay Cutler did.

Make a list.

[Atlas]

So you don't think watching QB's from Dawson, Unitas and Tarkenton until now has any value in knowing when you're looking at the real thing...is that what you're saying? If so you're the one looking dumb.

With the exception of Dan Marino in his rookie year, Cutler looks as good as any rookie I've ever seen in this game. Guess that's irrelevant though...

Anything to keep propping up the failed bit called Jake...

Cutler has showed poise and a great arm. Shanny makes any QB look better than they are. I hope to see a less robotic Cutler next year. I hope he loosens up in the pocket a little bit.
I wasn't impressed with his pocket awareness, now I will admit he is probably thinking of 1,000 different things, and everything is moving at 100 MPH so he'll get better when it comes more naturally to him.

[24champ]

Which games does Plummer get?The good ones or bad ones?

There was a good one?




just kidding...

[footstepsfrom#27]

Shanny makes any QB look better than they are.
Then what happened to Jake?

I don't see how having a porous pass blocking O-line, an inconsistent running game and an offense that's reportedly very complicated suddenly makes any QB look better than they are...especially a rookie.

Does that include Montana, Young, and Elway too?

[Crushaholic]

There was a good one?




just kidding...

I know you said you were just kidding, but people need to remember that the offense was good enough to beat Indy. The defense...that was a different story...

[Meck77]

Who has the stats on Jake? I know he posted the 5th best all time winning percentage between a coach/QB. Love him or hate him he won plenty of games here.

Anybody have Jake's all time winning percentage in Denver?

All Cutler has to do is win more games than Jake did in the same time period and get us beyond the AFC Championship game. Will it be done?

We'll find out in several years. Until then it's all speculation. ALL OF IT.

[watermock]

I'm much more worried about his future because of the concussion than anything else.

I allready explained this once. Grossman had a dominant D, and Hester as the new Dainty Hall. To say that Jay got help is laughable, other than Champ.

I remember one rookie QB that lined up behind guard. Boy was he a bust.

The reason Jay looks stiff in the pocket is because he hasn't adjusted and is trying to go thru his progressions. It's not HIS fault that Foster went Matador and allowed him to be banged into the turf.

Maybe we should trade Cutler for Michael Vick...the #1 pick with "Veteran experience"....uh huh...I thought so...Gonzo might bite on that worm.

Next year, he will go thru his progressions faster.

BTW...would you take Eli Manning...the #1 pick over Cutler? I didn't think so. PatsWin probably would because he knows Cutler is a threat.

Does anyone realize that if we played even close to what Grossman had on D and ST we would of been 4-1 and 11-5? Why do you think Coyer was fired? He played like he had a lead late in close games. It's not rocket science.

I say we bring in one or two vets at OT...then spend the draft on a RB and DL DL DL.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Who has the stats on Jake? I know he posted the 5th best all time winning percentage between a coach/QB. Love him or hate him he won plenty of games here.

Anybody have Jake's all time winning percentage in Denver?

All Cutler has to do is win more games than Jake did in the same time period and get us beyond the AFC Championship game. Will it be done?

We'll find out in several years. Until then it's all speculation. ALL OF IT.
The flaw in your thinking exists in the idea that QB's exist in a vaccum apart from the talent around them. I guess if Peyton Manning were suddenly traded to the Faiders, he'd be less of a quarterback than Grossman with the Bears huh?

It's obvious we've got a major talent here...something Jake was not. Why don't we just accept that?

[fontaine]

Who has the stats on Jake? I know he posted the 5th best all time winning percentage between a coach/QB. Love him or hate him he won plenty of games here.

Anybody have Jake's all time winning percentage in Denver?

All Cutler has to do is win more games than Jake did in the same time period and get us beyond the AFC Championship game. Will it be done?

We'll find out in several years. Until then it's all speculation. ALL OF IT.


Why in the world would you compare Jake as a 7 year vet coming into Denver and his first three seasons here to a ROOKIE and his first three seasons?

A far more logical comparison would be contrasting Jake's first three years as a QB to Cutler's.

But I suspect that Jake's 6-7 years of abismal failure in Arizona will be stricken from the record in these types of discussions.

Why in the world would you expect a rookie to play like he's been in the league for 6-7 years?

[ukbroncosfan]

Why in the world would you compare Jake as a 7 year vet coming into Denver and his first three seasons here to a ROOKIE and his first three seasons?

A far more logical comparison would be contrasting Jake's first three years as a QB to Cutler's.

But I suspect that Jake's 6-7 years of abismal failure in Arizona will be stricken from the record in these types of discussions.

Why in the world would you expect a rookie to play like he's been in the league for 6-7 years?

Mike Shanahan said Jay Cutler gives us the best chance to win now. If the Broncos miss the playoffs again next year Cutler will be the fall guy.

[watermock]

Mike Shanahan said Jay Cutler gives us the best chance to win now. If the Broncos miss the playoffs again next year Cutler will be the fall guy.

Not if he's tossed around like a rag doll and has to clutch his helmet to know where it is. Just point him in the right direction and have Foster lead him to the huddle so he doesn't give the play call in the wrong one.

Obviously, I'm still pissed.

[broncosteven]

Why in the world would you compare Jake as a 7 year vet coming into Denver and his first three seasons here to a ROOKIE and his first three seasons?

A far more logical comparison would be contrasting Jake's first three years as a QB to Cutler's.

But I suspect that Jake's 6-7 years of abismal failure in Arizona will be stricken from the record in these types of discussions.

Why in the world would you expect a rookie to play like he's been in the league for 6-7 years?

People forget he was ROOKIE.

They also forget he Broke Dan Marino's & Charlie Conerly's TD record for Rookies for 2 td's in each of 4 games. Curious how many records Jake holds.

Cutler did not lose the 49er game, He did not play the full 60 min in regulation. His BACKUP POSTED A 0.00 QB Rating and only allotted for 3 of the points scored that day. Maybe if Shanny trusted said Backup on 3rd & long in the red zone they could have picked up a TD rather than running a QB sneak & getting the FG.

Cutler threw a PIC-6 after suffering Concussion like symptoms.

Cutler also had the Game Tying drive with about 6min & no timeouts & had to go a full 80 yards, after suffering Concussion like symptoms.

Kid showed me everything I needed to see to confirm what I felt vs the 49ers & more.

Next year & many years to follow will be fun.

[orange 4 life]

Well, I would say Jay still has a lot to prove. He's won one game. I hope he does well...but we don't know that he won't be a bust...not yet.

that of course is true sass, but i also dont think there's even ONE of us that dont at least see all the tools in place.
my only big question is whether or not he can be the vocal leader we need, and if so how soon?

also, i agree with slap.
lincicome is just a terrible writer. plain and simple.
he loves to make waves, but he sure doesnt like to make sense.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Mike Shanahan said Jay Cutler gives us the best chance to win now. If the Broncos miss the playoffs again next year Cutler will be the fall guy.
It's incumbant upon you as a fan to recognize that 1) the QB is far from the only ingredient we're needing to win, and 2) Shanahan was obviously being diplomatic in explaining a switch that both the fan base and his veteran core needed to understand. Do you believe everything that comes from the mouth of the head coach or are you discerning enough to recognize the need to take a few things with a grain of salt?

Having said that, note that this offense under Jay averaged better than a TD per game better than it did with Jake under center. Would you say that an 7 point per game differential gives the team a better chance to win or not? If so, then you too shoud subscribe to the idea that Jay gave us the best chance to win now. The fact that we didn't, is mostly due to the fact that this defense collapsed over the last half of the season...and has very little to do with mistakes that Jay made, all of which Plummer was also prone to.

Points scored per game with Jake: 17.7
Points scored per game with Jay: 24.8
Points surrendered per game with Jake: 14.8
Points surrendered per game with Jay: 28

Based on the above, had Jake played with Jay's defense the average score would have been Opponents 28 Denver 18, while if the reverse were true and Jay played with Jake's defense, the average score becomes Denver 25, Opponents 15...from averaging a 10 point loss to averaging a 10 point win...a 20 point per game swing.

Does this or does this not make sense to you?

[broncosteven]

Point is that Jay does not have 4 or more years of experience that Grossgrrl has or TEN years experience that Jake has.

You can compare their 1st 5 starts though. I bet anyone that Neither Rex or Jake threw 2 td's per game 4 games in a row to start their Careers. I wish I had time to look up their 1st 5 starts of their careers. I know Rex's was not pretty.

[Clockwork Orange]

Point is that Jay does not have 4 or more years of experience that Grossgrrl has or TEN years experience that Jake has.

You can compare their 1st 5 starts though. I bet anyone that Neither Rex or Jake threw 2 td's per game 4 games in a row to start their Careers. I wish I had time to look up their 1st 5 starts of their careers. I know Rex's was not pretty.

Here you go.

64/125, 796 yards, 3 TD's, 4 INT's

[ukbroncosfan]

It's incumbant upon you as a fan to recognize that 1) the QB is far from the only ingredient we're needing to win, and 2) Shanahan was obviously being diplomatic in explaining a switch that both the fan base and his veteran core needed to understand. Do you believe everything that comes from the mouth of the head coach or are you discerning enough to recognize the need to take a few things with a grain of salt?

Having said that, note that this offense under Jay averaged better than a TD per game better than it did with Jake under center. Would you say that an 7 point per game differential gives the team a better chance to win or not? If so, then you too shoud subscribe to the idea that Jay gave us the best chance to win now. The fact that we didn't, is mostly due to the fact that this defense collapsed over the last half of the season...and has very little to do with mistakes that Jay made, all of which Plummer was also prone to.

Points scored per game with Jake: 17.7
Points scored per game with Jay: 24.8
Points surrendered per game with Jake: 14.8
Points surrendered per game with Jay: 28

Based on the above, had Jake played with Jay's defense the average score would have been Opponents 28 Denver 18, while if the reverse were true and Jay played with Jake's defense, the average score becomes Denver 25, Opponents 15...from averaging a 10 point loss to averaging a 10 point win...a 20 point per game swing.

Does this or does this not make sense to you?

I was calling for Jay Cutler to start.

IMHO we would have scrapped into the playoffs with Jake Plummer, but I think we made the right move. The team was going nowhere with Plummer.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I wish I had time to look up their 1st 5 starts of their careers. I know Rex's was not pretty.
Grossman's 1st 5 Starts

1) 2003 vs Minnesota: 13/30, 157 yards, 0 TD's, 0 INT's
2) 2003 vs Washington: 19/32, 249 yards, 2 TD's, 1 INT
3) 2004 vs Detroit: 16/35, 227 yards, 0 TD's, 2 INT's
4) 2004 vs Green Bay: 10/18, 132 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
5) 2004 vs Minnesota: 21/31, 248 yards, 0 TD's, 0 INT's

Totals: 79/146, 1013 yards, 3 TD's, 4 INT's, 54.1%, 6.9 ypa

Jay Cutler's 1st 5 Starts

Totals: 81/137, 1001 yards, 9 TD's, 5 INT's, 59.1%, 7.31 ypa

Grossman's first 5 games were played against opponents with a combined 39-42 won/lost record (.475 winning percentage), while Cutler's first 5 games were played against teams with a 43-37 record (.537 winning percentage). Grossman had the advantage of starting his first 5 games across 2 seasons, while Cutler obviously had to do all of it at one time without the benefit of more time to sit and watch the process unfold.

Stats tell only part of the story. Factor in the two bad weather games and the fact that Jay played part of one game with a concusion and most of another coming from far behind, and it's apparent his performance was superior to Grossman's, especially since it all came in his rookie year as opposed to spread over two seasons.

[Cito Pelon]

Take a look at the comments that people posted about ol' Bernie. They are quite nasty and rightfully so. I don't know how to link but it's in today's Rocky Mountain News.

I tell ya, I've had many a belly-laugh this past season reading those "Reader Comments" in the RMN and DPO.

[watermock]

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/sports_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_83_5290824,00.html

Here is yet another incredibly idiotic article from dead head Bernie. In this installment...he laments the loss of a 5.5 guard.

[Sassy]

Which games does Plummer get?The good ones or bad ones?

Well...ya know...according to some...it was NEVER the fault of our D.

[Imdkeeper]

Why do you think Coyer was fired? He played like he had a lead late in close games. It's not rocket science.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that saw that. Damn.... how many times did that kick us in the butt. At times it seemed like we were throwing the game.

[watermock]

You have a 10 point lead, you can eat clock. Oh nsever mind. Beezer wants me to come to bed.

[Odysseus]

You mean Cutler should be able to get us to the Superbowl?

[watermock]

Know what...once Cutler got his concussion...Jake had a chance to be the hero and make himself trade worthy. A 0.0 and a pick didn't enhance those odds. Instead, he played so poorly that Shanahan put Cutler back in. Oddly, at that point...I just didn't want to see Cutler take another hit. Jay wasn't carrying his helmet around or on his mug to get back in as much as I doubt he would of been able to find it. A strange calm of resignation came over me, as I knew Coyer would play a soft zone with the game on the line.

Despite an obvious concussion, the fog kinda lifted after the pic 6 and Cutler let us to an 80 yard drive to tie the game.

Now look at his pass distribution stats:

R. Smith 5 59 0 15
T. Scheffler 3 54 1 29
M. Bell 3 34 0 24
T. Bell 3 27 0 15
J. Walker 4 25 0 10
B. Marshall 2 20 0 19
D. Kircus 1 11 0 11

As opposed to "Lock on Rod", can't find Scheff, Jake.

Cutler was 21/32 1/1 but the kid was in a fog on the pick. He still finished the season with a much higher rating. Our D melted down in the second half of the seadon.

Despite the pic 6 after the concussion, he still had a rating of 84.

[AFCWestFan]

What makes the comparison stupid is that Grossman is in the Super Bowl and the Broncos watched the Playoffs.

These kind of comparisons are the work of people who need a job or a hobby.

Grossman is going to have a ring....and Cutler is going to sit home and watch.

[Clockwork Orange]

Grossman is going to have a ring....and Cutler is going to sit home and watch.

You were saying, Carnac? :laugh:

[JCMElway]

And on Monday morning after Super Bowl 41 Bronco fans wake up with a good feeling about the future with Jay at the helm. Bears fans wake up with a lot of questions, anger and doubt about Sexy Rexy.

I can most defietly say that Cutler >>> Grossman.

[broncosteven]

Channel 5 in Chicago after SB XLIzzz had their post game coverage & they had text message's from fans scrolling across the bot of the screen.

It was like reading the Jake lover or D hater threads here.

"Rex is our Guy"

[watermock]

Rex is lucky that he wasn't in Philly, Detroit or NY or he would have to get a bodyguard or two. I couldn't believe the similarities of Rex Plummer.

Chicago is a pretty loyal city, but you have to question Rex's judgement. Again...oddly enough, he was 20-28 but had those horrific interceptions...the rollout was another horrific play...he could of run for the first down.