City of Denver must declare war on GANGS

[Atlas]

After reading the RMN article on Walls and Portis' brush with gangs, After Porter getting shot, The Nugget getting shot and D' Will getting murdered, The city of Denver must step up and crack down on gang violence. This is amazing at what is going on here. Where is the Mayor in all this.

I would love it if we could start an e mail campaign to say that this is unacceptable.


WHy are these nightclubs so dangerous?

Maybe more security is needed at these places.

Any ideas on this??

[Meck77]

Thank you Atlas. The war has been declared unofficialy but not by the City yet. I feel it's coming and we can help make it happen.

If you don't mind Atlas I'm going to use your thread to keep updating the D-will case. The other thread was shuffled and buried in the ring of fame. Sure we cried, we posted our pics, but it hasn't even been two weeks. The war has just begun. I keep bouncing around updating what little D-will threads are left but this one is titled correctly.

I think not only does the city need to declare war but so do the citizens. I've declared mine and am joining the fight. What am I saying I've already been in it having lived next to one of the "worst" highschools in Aurora. It's been an ongoing thing in my life for years.

[Atlas]

Maybe a commission can be set up. The police know the gangs they know who are involved in the gangs, I mean these gangmembers are not rocket scientists. It's time to get tough on them. Something has to be done. I think the polititions are afraid of the negative press but they have to get off their asses and do something.

[alkemical]

I am not going to try to aggrivate anyone -

But this is only an issue when someone "important" (i use that very loose) - gets hurt. Where's the concern before then?

Sorry but i don't see how any "commission" or anything else will solve the issue, you have to get to the Root.

[Old Dude]

My impression is that gang violence took a downturn in the late 90's and maybe through 2002 or 2003, but that it's on the increase again. I think this has more to do with age demographics than anything else.

[BigPlayShay]

There is Police security in "most" of the clubs in Denver, however, the owner of the club that Darrent was in has pissed off the Denver PD so much that they won't offer security to his clubs. Check out this article:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5251068,00.html

and this:

http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_4953080

There needs to be a war against the Gangs and the scumbag club owner Regas Christou.

[Bronco Bob]

After reading the RMN article on Walls and Portis' brush with gangs, After Porter getting shot, The Nugget getting shot and D' Will getting murdered, The city of Denver must step up and crack down on gang violence. This is amazing at what is going on here. Where is the Mayor in all this.

I would love it if we could start an e mail campaign to say that this is unacceptable.


WHy are these nightclubs so dangerous?

Maybe more security is needed at these places.

Any ideas on this??

If we weren't pissing away all our money in Iraq, we'd have more money to
fight this sort of problem. I know there are a lot of Republicans here
who hate Clinton, but when Clinton was president, he had a goal of
hiring 100,000 additional policemen. When Bush came into office he
promptly eliminated this program. Hundreds of extra cops in Denver
would be a big start in supressing gangs.

[Garcia Bronco]

The solution is rather simple...throw them in jail...and have them do hard labor. Chipping rocks all day is a character building experience.

[alkemical]

If we weren't pissing away all our money in Iraq, we'd have more money to
fight this sort of problem. I know there are a lot of Republicans here
who hate Clinton, but when Clinton was president, he had a goal of
hiring 100,000 additional policemen. When Bush came into office he
promptly eliminated this program. Hundreds of extra cops in Denver
would be a big start in supressing gangs.



This isn't an issue with funding. Throwing money at something doesn't make it go away. This isn't a political issue.

Nobody wants to see the real issue(s).

[Garcia Bronco]

If we weren't pissing away all our money in Iraq, we'd have more money to
fight this sort of problem.

One has nothing to do with the other. There is plenty of money and resources to be had, but the problem starts at home, and frankly...some people shouldn't be allowed to reproduce.

[Meck77]

I am not going to try to aggrivate anyone -

But this is only an issue when someone "important" (i use that very loose) - gets hurt. Where's the concern before then?

Sorry but i don't see how any "commission" or anything else will solve the issue, you have to get to the Root.

You are either part of the solution or part of the problem.

It has to be attacked on all angles. Gang units, police, citizens, and thru gang provention progams, parents, ONLINE BRONCOS fans who care about the team/City of Denver.

OldDude from everything I've read and having talked to Reverend Kelly personally the other day the gang roots of Denver started to grow in 1985. There was an influx of gangs at that time as Denver was seen as a new market to take over and make cash. That is when the big numbers moved in.

Yes people are just starting to wake up. It's a good thing but better late than never.

[Atlas]

If we weren't pissing away all our money in Iraq, we'd have more money to
fight this sort of problem. I know there are a lot of Republicans here
who hate Clinton, but when Clinton was president, he had a goal of
hiring 100,000 additional policemen. When Bush came into office he
promptly eliminated this program. Hundreds of extra cops in Denver
would be a big start in supressing gangs.


I think you are right but I think the City of Denver needs to act. They need to say enough is enough.

[Bronco Bob]

This isn't an issue with funding. Throwing money at something doesn't make it go away. This isn't a political issue.

Nobody wants to see the real issue(s).


So you don't think hiring more cops to patrol the streets and to investigates
crimes would put a dent in gang activity?

[Kaylore]

This is really about one thine: Drugs. There are many people, including pro athletes, who do drugs and as long as they do drugs, there will be organized crime in Denver. If these athletes want to do drugs, then they will acquaint themselves with those people.

Either Denver rises up and rejects drugs or we legalize it and take the power away by controlling it ourselves. Both options are unlikely.

I don't know what to think, but something needs to be done and a good start would be getting rid of the corrupt officials in charge in Denver.

[Garcia Bronco]

I think you are right but I think the City of Denver needs to act. They need to say enough is enough.

the only thing they can do is throw these guys in jail at this point and educate the younger kids

[alkemical]

You are either part of the solution or part of the problem.

It has to be attacked on all angles. Gang units, police, citizens, and thru gang provention progams, parents, ONLINE BRONCOS fans who care about the team/City of Denver.

OldDude from everything I've read and having talked to Reverend Kelly personally the other day the gang roots of Denver started to grow in 1985. There was an influx of gangs at that time as Denver was seen as a new market to take over and make cash. That is when the big numbers moved in.

Yes people are just starting to wake up. It's a good thing but better late than never.



Yeah i just said that chief.

[Atlas]

I am not going to try to aggrivate anyone -

But this is only an issue when someone "important" (i use that very loose) - gets hurt. Where's the concern before then?

Sorry but i don't see how any "commission" or anything else will solve the issue, you have to get to the Root.

Famous people getting gunned down by gang members does shine a light on an existing problem. I mean these same gang members are likely to have killed a woman ready to testify. There needs to be a crack down. There needs to be police harrassment of these gang members.

What I meant was by commission is that a commission needs to look into the problem THEN ACT on their findings.

[alkemical]

So you don't think hiring more cops to patrol the streets and to investigates
crimes would put a dent in gang activity?

Not really. It's "reactive" method, not a "proactive" method.

[Meck77]

I think you are right but I think the City of Denver needs to act. They need to say enough is enough.

Yup..."Rev" was talking about this on tv the other day. He said when the Broncos won a superbowl our politicians were scrambling to get on the podium to soak in the glory with Elway.

When D-will was murdered not ONE public official from Denver made it out to his funeral. NOT A ONE!!!!

I don't want to push the blame on Denver officials though. It's easy to do. There are several million people on the front range who weren't paying attention or didn't care.

We were the people that weren't approving tax increases for police/gang units etc. We've known for years that our police force has been strained. It's no secret in Denver and other areas. Anyone that lives there and knows a cop has heard the stories.

[alkemical]

This is really about one thine: Drugs. There are many people, including pro athletes, who do drugs and as long as they do drugs, there will be organized crime in Denver. If these athletes want to do drugs, then they will acquaint themselves with those people.

Either Denver rises up and rejects drugs or we legalize it and take the power away by controlling it ourselves. Both options are unlikely.

I don't know what to think, but something needs to be done and a good start would be getting rid of the corrupt officials in charge in Denver.


"The State" helps create organized crime. Infact, it's the "competition" to "the state". it's not all about drugs - it's about $$$$$.

[alkemical]

Famous people getting gunned down by gang members does shine a light on an existing problem. I mean these same gang members are likely to have killed a woman ready to testify. There needs to be a crack down. There needs to be police harrassment of these gang members.

What I meant was by commission is that a commission needs to look into the problem THEN ACT on their findings.

I'm sorry, but i'm going to laugh at this. Because it's the same method that's been used for i dunno the last 25 years easy and hasn't worked for anything.

[Meck77]

Yeah i just said that chief.

Chief eh? Ok I like that. If I'm the chief than let me ask you are you ready to help with the problem and join the fight with me?

Reverend Kelly told me to round up people who want to help. That is what I'm going to do and that is what I've been doing the last few days. Several other people around here have already agreed to help out. The "rev's" organization isn't the only one intown but so far he has been the most outspoken and provided more leadership and information than anyone else in Denver and that includes our public officials IMO.

There is plenty of things all of us can do even if you don't live in Denver.

[Rohirrim]

The nightclub they were at, The Shelter, is not some seedy joint on the outskirts of town. The large, well respected advertising agency my wife works for had their Christmas party there the week prior to Jan. 1st.

[Spider]

Ok I have a solution , we will trade you Cheyenne for the Denver Broncos , not sure how this will help Crime , but it seems like a good Idea ;D

[Rohirrim]

Gangs are a product of families destroyed by poverty. Now we have black gangs, hispanic gangs, southeast asian gangs. We think it's some kind of ethnic thing. It's not. Once, the meanest gangs in New York were Irish and Jewish and Italian. You can hire all the cops and gang swat teams you want. That won't cure the disease. It's the poverty, stupid.

[BigPlayShay]

The nightclub they were at, The Shelter, is not some seedy joint on the outskirts of town. The large, well respected advertising agency my wife works for had their Christmas party there the week prior to Jan. 1st.

You're right, it isn't in a bad neighborhood at all. However, when it isn't a private party there and is open to the public, there is no Police security offered to the club owner because of how much he has pissed off the Denver PD.

If there were cops on scene, maybe they could have stepped in during the alleged first altercation.

[alkemical]

Chief eh? Ok I like that. If I'm the chief than let me ask you are you ready to help with the problem and join the fight with me?


No, because i have work to do "here" where i live. I also find it so interesting how this only became such a big issue after a football player was killed - and not the weeks and years before when it was in the denver papers that this went on.

[Meck77]

I don't know what to think, but something needs to be done and a good start would be getting rid of the corrupt officials in charge in Denver.

Drugs are definetly a focal point and that leads into the point that Ro was making about poverty. Gangs turn to drugs for money. Getting into legalization of drugs is a huge federal issue that wont' be solved on this forum but it is worth discussing for sure. The irony is that Denver did legalize marijuana but until any federal laws are adopted it's just smoke and mirros.

[Ratboy]

Why just the City of Denver? It needs to be everywhere in the United States.

[Garcia Bronco]

Gangs are a product of families destroyed by poverty. Now we have black gangs, hispanic gangs, southeast asian gangs. We think it's some kind of ethnic thing. It's not. Once, the meanest gangs in New York were Irish and Jewish and Italian. You can hire all the cops and gang swat teams you want. That won't cure the disease. It's the poverty, stupid.

I think it's more than poverty at this point in our society. But that is where it starts.

[Meck77]

No, because i have work to do "here" where i live. I also find it so interesting how this only became such a big issue after a football player was killed - and not the weeks and years before when it was in the denver papers that this went on.

Yup it is sad. The point has been made. People don't pay attention until something like D-wills story comes about.

Atleast you are honest that you aren't going to help. There is work to be done in every city. I can respect that. Keep inmind this thread is about waging a war on gangs in Denver and is a call for those who want to help.

The bigger issue Clav isn't that people are just starting to pay attention. The bigger issue is how many people get involved and take action. I told the "Rev" there are plenty of Broncos fans who were shaken up by this.

He flat out said to me "Well let's talk a bit later and see how many of them care in a 3 weeks".

[-Slap-]

Gangs are a product of families destroyed by poverty. Now we have black gangs, hispanic gangs, southeast asian gangs. We think it's some kind of ethnic thing. It's not. Once, the meanest gangs in New York were Irish and Jewish and Italian. You can hire all the cops and gang swat teams you want. That won't cure the disease. It's the poverty, stupid.

No question and that problem truly is irreversible. There will always be an underclass in American society. While it may be unrealistic to believe gangs could ever be eradicated, its important to give every child an opportunity for a better life.

The gang problem here in Vegas has exploded over the past decade because all the programs designed to keep at risk kids away from gangs have dried up. We used to have midnight basketball and better funding for Boy and Girls clubs and similar organizations, but one by one, those things all went away.

Admittedly, our situation is somewhat unique in that the population explosion in Clark County has stressed the city infrastructure in multiple ways, roads, schools, police. Gang intervention programs have gotten pushed aside.

That's really just an excuse, though. Las Vegas is a transient town by nature and the local government is more concerned about stealing money than helping at risk children or people living on the streets.

Its not too late to change things in Colorado, but the key isn't in incarceration, its in education. Get to them young because by the time they're 16 or 17 years old, its generally too late to fix them. Sad, but true.

[Meck77]

Its not too late to change things in Colorado, but the key isn't in incarceration, its in education. Get to them young because by the time they're 16 or 17 years old, its generally too late to fix them. Sad, but true.

Good post and it's definetly not too late. We talk about a "War" against gangs as if this is some military operation. It isn't. These aren't Iraqi insurgents in our city they are youths who fell thru the education cracks and aren't making a living thru normal channels of society.

[fontaine]

No, because i have work to do "here" where i live. I also find it so interesting how this only became such a big issue after a football player was killed - and not the weeks and years before when it was in the denver papers that this went on.

I agree. Some people are even pointing fingers at lack of police, club owner etc. Yeah, more cops at the nite club probably prevent DWill getting shot down in the prime of his life that night, but the gangs are still around.

Maybe they don't kill DWill that night, but some other joe blow gets it another day somewhere else by that same gang and it's not big news since joe blow doesn't play CB for the Denver Broncos.

You could probably put a dent in gang violence/crimes by throwing money at the problem, getting more cops but the problem is these solutions are as temporary as Paris Hilton's next boyfriend. What about the next government which decides to cut back on the money spent, cops etc because the gang violence has died down and you're right back to square one.

The issue, IMO, as some guys have pointed out is what happens in a family (or lather lack of it) when these kids are still very young be it poverty, absent parents, lack of education or living in destitute areas with limited opportunities. None are excuses but influences that affect nurture.

I've lived in major cities outside the US like Stockholm, New Delhi, Dublin, Warsaw, etc and the difference in family values is almost palpable. In Stockholm if you see a young teenager with a new born baby you don't think she's a dropout, welfare case, uneducated blah blah blah. You KNOW that a well balanced and carefully planned system of social care is in place to give her and her baby the best start possible. She isn't considered a drain on society but thought of as just another person with a cute baby.

I don't know if I've conveyed my thoughts articulately enough. I just feel that a more permanent solution to these problems has to come from families/parents and a system of resources for them when children are at a very young age rather than just throwing money/resources at the end product once they turn into actual gang members and have shot someone.

[alkemical]

Yup it is sad. The point has been made. People don't pay attention until something like D-wills story comes about.

Atleast you are honest that you aren't going to help. There is work to be done in every city. I can respect that. Keep inmind this thread is about waging a war on gangs in Denver and is a call for those who want to help.

The bigger issue Clav isn't that people are just starting to pay attention. The bigger issue is how many people get involved and take action. I told the "Rev" there are plenty of Broncos fans who were shaken up by this.

He flat out said to me "Well let's talk a bit later and see how many of them care in a 3 weeks".



It's not that i'm not going to help, just not in denver. I don't live in denver - and IMO - it's up to THOSE CITIZENS to take charge. Not me living in the keystone state.

The Rev is right - how many will care in a few weeks - and even worse - caring isn't enough - so how far fewer are even going to put time/money into this.

Also Meck77 - i'll give you props of talking to "The Rev" - but did you deal with him much before Darrent Williams was killed? This is the type of stuff i'm pointing too.

Granted my focus isn't gangs, it's the homeless - but i didn't get exposed to the homeless until i was one.

[spdirty]

I think we should identify em, round em all up, ship em to a deserted island, and give em all the ammo they want.

If this country had balls theyd take care of this now, but they don't.

What we should do is flat out make it illegal and kill every member of the bloods, crips, or whatever they call themselves. And we do that to whatever other gangs that decides to sprout up. Thats what declaring war on gangs means to me. Talk is cheap. Thats real action. Send a clear message that if you are in a gang, you will go down.

[alkemical]

I agree. Some people are even pointing fingers at lack of police, club owner etc. Yeah, more cops at the nite club probably prevent DWill getting shot down in the prime of his life that night, but the gangs are still around.

Maybe they don't kill DWill that night, but some other joe blow gets it another day somewhere else by that same gang and it's not big news since joe blow doesn't play CB for the Denver Broncos.

You could probably put a dent in gang violence/crimes by throwing money at the problem, getting more cops but the problem is these solutions are as temporary as Paris Hilton's next boyfriend. What about the next government which decides to cut back on the money spent, cops etc because the gang violence has died down and you're right back to square one.

The issue, IMO, as some guys have pointed out is what happens in a family (or lather lack of it) when these kids are still very young be it poverty, absent parents, lack of education or living in destitute areas with limited opportunities. None are excuses but influences that affect nurture.

I've lived in major cities outside the US like Stockholm, New Delhi, Dublin, Warsaw, etc and the difference in family values is almost palpable. In Stockholm if you see a young teenager with a new born baby you don't think she's a dropout, welfare case, uneducated blah blah blah. You KNOW that a well balanced and carefully planned system of social care is in place to give her and her baby the best start possible. She isn't considered a drain on society but thought of as just another person with a cute baby.

I don't know if I've conveyed my thoughts articulately enough. I just feel that a more permanent solution to these problems has to come from families/parents and a system of resources for them when children are at a very young age rather than just throwing money/resources at the end product once they turn into actual gang members and have shot someone.



Rack 'em

[alkemical]

I think we should identify em, round em all up, ship em to a deserted island, and give em all the ammo they want.

If this country had balls theyd take care of this now, but they don't.

What we should do is flat out make it illegal and kill every member of the bloods, crips, or whatever they call themselves. And we do that to whatever other gangs that decides to sprout up. Thats what declaring war on gangs means to me. Talk is cheap. Thats real action. Send a clear message that if you are in a gang, you will go down.


Nobody wants to identify the root cause. Your solution IMO maybe effective, but i'd say I violently disagree and think you open a far worse pandora's box on killing people on affiliation of a group.

You become no different than they, by killing them for association.

action = reaction

violence = violence

[spdirty]

And I think one of the BIGGEST problems with black youths that go to gangs is that they don't have a father, or father figure. Maybe I shouldnt limit it to black youths though, its probably all youths that go to gangs don't have a father and mother figure in their life.

Whats the solution to that? I don't know. Maybe those big brother/big sister elder programs, but I think that lack of both parents creates 95% of the problem.

[spdirty]

Nobody wants to identify the root cause. Your solution IMO maybe effective, but i'd say I violently disagree and think you open a far worse pandora's box on killing people on affiliation of a group.

You become no different than they, by killing them for association.

action = reaction

violence = violence

Thats how Wyatt Earp beat the Cowboys. Didn't you ever watch Tombstone?

Besides, thats what declaring war on gangs means to me. Like declaring war on poverty should mean to kill the homeless, war on drugs means to kill all drug users, war on terror means to kill all terrorists, etc. However, the "war on" Id be in favor of, would be on gangs. They are undesirables who do nothing for a community except be a menace to it. They are like domestic terrorists who use guns instead of bombs.

[Meck77]

I don't know if I've conveyed my thoughts articulately enough. I just feel that a more permanent solution to these problems has to come from families/parents and a system of resources for them when children are at a very young age rather than just throwing money/resources at the end product once they turn into actual gang members and have shot someone.

Well said and I can't agree more and that is why I went on a search of such a program. It found me via my tv. I know not everyone out there has local Denver access but everyone on here has the internet. http://www.therev.org/

[Atlas]

Good post and it's definetly not too late. We talk about a "War" against gangs as if this is some military operation. It isn't. These aren't Iraqi insurgents in our city they are youths who fell thru the education cracks and aren't making a living thru normal channels of society.


I agree with the programs that helped kids stay out of gangs that the Bush administration has cut helped alot. But brining back those programs alone won't cut gang influence. The police have to get tough on gangs and make alot of the members realiize that times are changing and that being in a gang might not be the best thing. This is done first and constantly then these other programs have to be reinstituted to help gang members stay away from the gangs.

People say poverty is the cause and in general they are right but it's not so much poverty as it is how much money they can make being in a gang. The kid looks at the situation and thinks Burger King $7 an hour....... or selling crack $700 a week??? with a tough crack down by police maybe they can make it less profitable for gang members, maybe they can make it more likely these gang members get caught thus also making it more likely that the Kid will choose the $7 an hour job.

[Atlas]

I agree. Some people are even pointing fingers at lack of police, club owner etc. Yeah, more cops at the nite club probably prevent DWill getting shot down in the prime of his life that night, but the gangs are still around.

Maybe they don't kill DWill that night, but some other joe blow gets it another day somewhere else by that same gang and it's not big news since joe blow doesn't play CB for the Denver Broncos.

You could probably put a dent in gang violence/crimes by throwing money at the problem, getting more cops but the problem is these solutions are as temporary as Paris Hilton's next boyfriend. What about the next government which decides to cut back on the money spent, cops etc because the gang violence has died down and you're right back to square one.

The issue, IMO, as some guys have pointed out is what happens in a family (or lather lack of it) when these kids are still very young be it poverty, absent parents, lack of education or living in destitute areas with limited opportunities. None are excuses but influences that affect nurture.

I've lived in major cities outside the US like Stockholm, New Delhi, Dublin, Warsaw, etc and the difference in family values is almost palpable. In Stockholm if you see a young teenager with a new born baby you don't think she's a dropout, welfare case, uneducated blah blah blah. You KNOW that a well balanced and carefully planned system of social care is in place to give her and her baby the best start possible. She isn't considered a drain on society but thought of as just another person with a cute baby.

I don't know if I've conveyed my thoughts articulately enough. I just feel that a more permanent solution to these problems has to come from families/parents and a system of resources for them when children are at a very young age rather than just throwing money/resources at the end product once they turn into actual gang members and have shot someone.


You are right. The breakdown of the black family is a big problem in America. Single parent homes are definatley a cause of this but what can we do about that?

[alkemical]

And I think one of the BIGGEST problems with black youths that go to gangs is that they don't have a father, or father figure. Maybe I shouldnt limit it to black youths though, its probably all youths that go to gangs don't have a father and mother figure in their life.

Whats the solution to that? I don't know. Maybe those big brother/big sister elder programs, but I think that lack of both parents creates 95% of the problem.

Hey i grew up without a Dad. Big Brothers didn't do anything for us, they said i was too old.

But if i were you i'd quit while you're behind on this one.

[Meck77]

IAlso Meck77 - i'll give you props of talking to "The Rev" - but did you deal with him much before Darrent Williams was killed? This is the type of stuff i'm pointing too.

Nope never heard of him. Nobody on the news gave him the time of day. Good thing is that it's changed. I have been involved with trouble youths with other programs for a couple years now. It's very rewarding and it does make a difference.

I can assure you one thing Clav. I'm not happy about this and I've been given a set of instructions that I plan on following up and I'm looking for people who care about Denver like I do and the "Rev" does.

Some members of this forum have already come forward. We need more.^5

[alkemical]

Thats how Wyatt Earp beat the Cowboys. Didn't you ever watch Tombstone?

Besides, thats what declaring war on gangs means to me. Like declaring war on poverty should mean to kill the homeless, war on drugs means to kill all drug users, war on terror means to kill all terrorists, etc. However, the "war on" Id be in favor of, however, would be on gangs. They are undesirables who do nothing for a community except be a menace to it. They are like domestic terrorists who use guns instead of bombs.



Your first sentance says it all.

Have a good day.

[spdirty]

Hey i grew up without a Dad. Big Brothers didn't do anything for us, they said i was too old.

But if i were you i'd quit while you're behind on this one.

And when I was 9 my sister and I had to grow up without a mom. Made everything tougher on us, but whats your point?

Because my point is, dad is a role model for son, and will give son a good kick in the ass if son goes to gang.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

There are a lot of organizations that help under priviledged kids/families. It's not commonly known, but there are more charitable organizations based in the City of Denver than any other entire state in the country. I spend my time and money helping an organization that provides low/no cost health care to those that cannot afford it. Broncos have been big supporters. They have selected it as one of their three major funding efforts, by pledging $250,000 this year and hopefully the same next year. Players come to the clinic and talk to the kids and urge the parents to keep the kids current with preventive medicine. Helping these kinds of organizations helps the kids before they cross the line into gangs by letting them know someone cares.

The after school, after hours programs like Slap mentioned also help. A few years ago, Majic Johnson funded a late night basketball program here in Denver. Funding for the recreation centers should be increased.

Meck mentioned on another thread that Rev. Kelly's group needs sporting equipment, computers and supplies for their cool cars program.

Many of us have sporting equipment and computer equipment sitting around we won't use. If someone here can volunteer a collection site, I would volunteeer to promote a collection of items and deliver them to Rev. Kelly.

If anyone here has a little room in a warehouse or store room at a business where things can be dropped off, please let me know.

[alkemical]

And when I was 9 my sister and I had to grow up without a mom. Made everything tougher on us, but whats your point?

Because my point is, dad is a role model for son, and will give son a good kick in the ass if son goes to gang.



Well i'm not out in a gang, and i'm not out causing trouble. Wait alot of my other friends who grew up in a single parent home are doing fine.

So i guess that means the whole sterotype of a single parent family being the ****up for civilization is well, ****.

[spdirty]

Well i'm not out in a gang, and i'm not out causing trouble. Wait alot of my other friends who grew up in a single parent home are doing fine.
Same here.
So i guess that means the whole sterotype of a single parent family being the ****up for civilization is well, ****.

uh huh, and when a single mother has to work 2 jobs to support her kids and cannot afford a babysitter leaving the kids unsupervised with a gang just a block away, what are the probablilities that the kid will go to that gang?

You can go on and on about after school programs, or whatever, but the mother SHOULD be at home supervising the kids while the father is at work, supporting the family. Or vice versa.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Wasn't the Denver Police Gang Bureau started in the mid 80's?
This has been a problem in Denver for a long time, not as bad as some big cities but worse than a lot of others.

And some would say it isn't that bad at all.

-------------------------------------------------
Denver Looks For Ways To Improve Tracking Of Gang-Related Crimes (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3985/is_200311/ai_n9305793)

Juvenile Justice Digest (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3985), Nov 20, 2003 (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3985/is_200311)
Denver has begun to review procedures to improve the tracking of gang-related crimes.
The police department's current system fails to take into account any gang links that surface after an officer files the initial crime report.


While official police data estimate gangs are rarely involved in Denver's crimes, detectives and gang squad members believe gangs are significant contributors to violent offenses.


Denver police records for 2002 show gang members committed fewer than 100 crimes out of a total of 59,581 despite other police reports showing the city has an estimated 17,000 gang members.


Even with serious underreporting, the police gang crimes unit says the number of gun violations, drug trafficking, auto thefts, robberies and assaults involving criminal organizations is on the rise.



The homicide record is a case in point. From 1998 to 2002, Denver averaged 50 murders annually including an average of two with gang connotations.

The department's homicide division, however, said 17 to 20 percent of murder victims and defendants are gang members. In the final week of October, the department linked three homicides to gangs.


Denver has been cutting back funds for enforcement against gangs since the so-called "Summer of Violence" 10 years ago when gang crime was rampant.
Now, Denver plans to realign its reporting system to try to improve the quality of measuring gang-related crime.
Part of the incentive for the police department is the possibility the city will lose federal law enforcement grants that are restricted to gang crime prevention.


Another incentive is the federal funding available from the new Department of Homeland Security.
The federal agency's grants are targeted to police activity that involves terrorism, illegal aliens and organized crime.
Denver is also considering an initiative that would involve joint efforts of local police with FBI agents and the U.S. Attorney's Office.


To help advance the changes, Police Chief Gerald Whitman has reorganized the department with 13 new executive level appointments.
Whitman named David Fisher to oversee restructuring of the Division of Investigations that includes the homicide and gang units.
The chief also wants to improve community policing as part of the effort to curb youth gangs.


Whitman selected the new executives from a list of 18 captains and 29 lieutenants who applied.
Copyright Washington Crime News Service Nov 20, 2003

[Meck77]

If anyone here has a little room in a warehouse or store room at a business where things can be dropped off, please let me know.

Amen BigGuy. I already have a call into Rev to address our conversation from yesterday about this.

I'm sure they have space. If not I could talk to the guys who rent my building next to Invesco. It's obviously a good central location that may work well as a drop off point if nobody else has any suggestions.

[alkemical]

Same here.


uh huh, and when a single mother has to work 2 jobs to support her kids and cannot afford a babysitter leaving the kids unsupervised with a gang just a block away, what are the probablilities that the kid will go to that gang?

You can go on and on about after school programs, or whatever, but the mother SHOULD be at home supervising the kids while the father is at work, supporting the family. Or vice versa.

yeah i'm sure that's how it is in your movies too.

Have a good day, you need to say nothing further.

[Atlas]

Well i'm not out in a gang, and i'm not out causing trouble. Wait alot of my other friends who grew up in a single parent home are doing fine.

So i guess that means the whole sterotype of a single parent family being the ****up for civilization is well, ****.

Are you a black youth that lived in a very poor neighborhood?? Nope didn't think so.

[alkemical]

Are you a black youth that lived in a very poor neighborhood?? Nope didn't think so.

No i was a white youth who grew up very poor.

So what's "black" got to do with it?

[Meck77]

No i was a white youth who grew up very poor.

So what's "black" got to do with it?


The thread was a call to Action by Atlas for some change in Denver.

Could you please take your personal battle to pms or start another thread to fight with Spdirty on? You already said you don't plan on helping in Denver Clav and that is what this thread is about or that was it's intent when Atlas started it.

[Atlas]

No i was a white youth who grew up very poor.

So what's "black" got to do with it?

Gangs are part of black culture, especially in the poorer black neighborhoods.

The crips, the bloods, hell even hip hop, rap music has gang roots.

[Garcia Bronco]

Hey i grew up without a Dad. Big Brothers didn't do anything for us, they said i was too old.

But if i were you i'd quit while you're behind on this one.

My big brother of a week turned out to be a child porno freak....messed up.

It's all about choices...I understand some people didn't have the opportunities I have had...conversely others have had more. there is zero excuse for people that sell illlegal drugs like crack, Hm or coke..and people that carry guns and shot people in limo's.

They should be eliminated because they know what they are doing is wrong.

[Old Dude]

Some of the "gang" stuff overlaps a lot of different cultures and stuff within the culture - clothing, nicknames, music, slang, etc. It's sometimes very hard to tell who is actually in a gang, who's hanging around as a wannabe and who's just emulating some of the cultural aspects.

[bjeffrey]

Thug Worship<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
The senseless and tragic death of a good person, Darrent Williams, leaves all of us shaking our heads in disbelief. But are these sort of events really as hard to forsee as it appears? In Darrent’s case, the police are focusing on members of the Crips urban street gang. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
The gang culture is a threat to us all. Sadly, perhaps the most vulnerable to gang violence are the poor families who, by virtue of economic circumstances, are trapped in proximity to the daily violence of these thugs. For such families, they are placed in harm’s way, not by their own choices, but by the realities of their limited finances. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Most of them would gladly move to safer neighborhoods—but they don’t get to make that choice. This is not the case for professional athletes and most other urban and suburban young men and women with the money and inclination to frequent hip-hop or rap clubs and nightspots. They HAVE made a choice. Their choice is to look and act dangerous—affecting the flamboyant poses of thugs and gangsta’s. Like moths flitting around a flame, they should not be astonished when one of them gets singed, or even burned to death. They placed themselves in danger. Unlike the moth—who seeks life-giving warmth, they seek to worship a culture that revels in hostility, violence, weapons, and misogyny. They worship the gun toting “gangstas” and envy their free and easy life of drugs, plentiful money, sloth and “ho’s”. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Just who are the gangsta’s they worship? Suffice it to say, it’s not Vito Corleone or Tony Soprano. It’s the Crips and the Bloods—the very people who are alleged to have killed Darrent Williams. To describe Darrent’s death as random or unpredictable may be comforting to us who liked him, but it is not rational. When Darrent went to that club, he didn’t need a crystal ball. He needed only to know that one of its owners had recently found it necessary to shoot to death someone he caught breaking in. He needed only to know that Brian Hicks (the “gangsta” Crip, whose car was apparently used by those who killed Darrent) had evidently shot at a woman last year as she was leaving the same club. He needed only to think about Jerry Porter being shot after leaving a Colorado club. He needed only to think about Julius Hodge being shot after a night of clubbing in Denver. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
To ignore all those things does not make the event “random”. Was Darrent innocent? Sure…and I loved him as a player and admired him as a person. Guess what? He is still dead. It is as though he (and many, many others) dressed as an alligator and crawled into a murky tropical pond, and then, to our surprise, was eaten by a real alligator.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
As disgusting as the club owners might be, as disgusting as the hip-hop or rap lyrics might be, they are not the problem. Simply put, the problem lies with those who worship thugs and gangstas—and show that worship by affecting their lifestyle and showing their bravado by hanging with them. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
What, you thought real gangsta’s didn’t go to these clubs? Please.
<o:p></o:p>
Realistically, urban street gangs have proven virtually impossible to eradicate. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. We can do more to undercut them, by working with the wannabe’s who glorify the lifestyle. <o:p></o:p>

[Bronx33]

Maybe a free hunter safety course for idiot gang members, see that way they understand what happens after a bullet leaves the barrell and most importantly (increase their accuracy) and hit the other idiot gang member that they are aiming at and not children playing, people eating at dinner tables, people walking to the store and football players sitting in a limos.

[Popps]

If you don't mind Atlas I'm going to use your thread to keep updating the D-will case. The other thread was shuffled and buried in the ring of fame.

The one good thing about off-season mode is that we're SUPPOSED to just be able to discuss things as we like, without these pesky-ass mods sticking their nose in everyone's ****, trying to over-police this place to death.

Well, maybe not. Looks like the merge-nazis have struck again. In this case, I'm sure the intent was good, but c'mon. Can't this place just play out how it's intended to play out?

[-Slap-]

Some of the "gang" stuff overlaps a lot of different cultures and stuff within the culture - clothing, nicknames, music, slang, etc. It's sometimes very hard to tell who is actually in a gang, who's hanging around as a wannabe and who's just emulating some of the cultural aspects.

No doubt. Young men want to look hard. Most of us wanted people to think we were tough when we were teenagers, too, be it through sports, or whatever. That's one thing popular music has always sold, the image of the rebel, the bad boy, the gangsta. This goes back 60 years or more.

I laugh at the snap judgements people make about what are essentially harmless kids 98% of the time. What looks like a badass gangbanger is usually just some suggestable kid who's playing a role and using dad's credit card to finance the wardrobe.

Parents are in a difficult position there. Do you put you foot down and tell Junior that, "no son of yours is walking out of your house looking like a gangbanger"?

Do you decide your kid is hardheaded and stubborn just like you and if you make too big of an issue about some stupid clothes, they'll just want to wear them that much more?

The sad thing is some kids never knew their dad and their mom is turning tricks for crack. They personally know family members who've been beaten by the police and they know even being seen talking to a cop in your neighborhood could get you killed for being a "snitch".

For them, gangs aren't a TV fantasy courtesy of MTV and 50 Cent. They're a fact of life and without outside direction from adults who care, its all too easy to get sucked into the lifestyle.

[Meck77]

Well Jeffrey I've been to plenty of those same clubs in Denver. Does that make me a Thug worshipper? I went there looking for a good time, a place to dance, and a beer. Did I jump in with the sharks? Maybe. Did I live next to sharks? Maybe. Did I drive down Colfax next to sharks? Maybe. Did I have random bullets intened for sharks almost hit my house a couple different times in Aurora. YES!

Hello Disco and I were standing in the yard once and bullets started flying. We damn near hit the deck.

I see the point you are trying to make and there are places in Denver that should probably be avoided but that doesn't stop the randomness that does happen from gang violence. It happens.

Infact if you read between the lines on the latest news that is being reported (not sure if it's true) but it sounds like Brandom Marshall was involved in an altercation and maybe it was him the thugs were after? I really don't know. I have yet to hear anyone say Darrent was involved in a fight yet he is the one that paid the price after he left "The shark infested water" your post was referring to.

[bpc]

First of all, I think it is good that we are all using DWill's death to highlight that has become a huge problem in not only Denver but across the nation.

I do think that we need to be on the same page here. People agree that there is a problem... it doesn't matter that the problem is here... or that somebody else thinks it is there... there is a problem(s) and the most important thing is that we start doing something about it.

Props to you Meck. You always go over and above the call of duty. I respect you so much for that.

[BigPlayShay]

Jeffrey my friends and I had a gun pulled on us at 20th and Kipling. That was 12 years ago. This "thug" didn't like the way we nodded HELLO to him.

This activity is not isolated to clubs. It can happen anywhere. Thank god there was a cop around. Although the cop thought we were just blocking traffic with this kid at the window of my car. Little did they know this 14 year old kid had 3 of us at gunpoint in the middle of a suburban street.

[-Slap-]

Jeffrey my friends and I had a gun pulled on us at 20th and Kipling. That was 12 years ago. This "thug" didn't like the way we nodded HELLO to him.

This activity is not isolated to clubs. It can happen anywhere. Thank god there was a cop around. Although the cop thought we were just blocking traffic with this kid at the window of my car. Little did they know this 14 year old kid had 3 of us at gunpoint in the middle of a suburban street.

Had that happen to me in LA. Two kids rolled up next to me at a red light, looked about 16 years old and asked me if I wanted to sell my car. I told them no and one of them asked me how I would like a bullet in my head and he held up a handgun. I declinded that offer as well and drove away. I was actually more pissed than scared. Until later, when I realized some kids running the streets today will shoot you in cold blood and then go hang out at the mall for a couple hours like nothing out of the ordinary happened.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Amen BigGuy. I already have a call into Rev to address our conversation from yesterday about this.

I'm sure they have space. If not I could talk to the guys who rent my building next to Invesco. It's obviously a good central location that may work well as a drop off point if nobody else has any suggestions.

If anyone can provide the collection place I will take on publicity and delievery from the collection place to Rev. Kelly.

[Meck77]

My post about the Dwill thread being moved to the ring of fame wasn't a knock on the mods Popps but it sorta did kill the momentum and conversation on Dwill. Or maybe it was just a matter of course like the "Rev" said it would be.

http://orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=51549

There were 603 posts on there. There is alot of shock, sorrow, anger, ideas, memorials and it all ended on January 9th, 2006 as that was basically the last few posts. I've been posting to myself on there lately.

The amount of hours we all spend on this website is astronomical I can't even begin to try and figure out how many man hours are spent talking about the Broncos. It's what bonds us all together for better or worse. THIS ENERGY NEEDS TO BE UTILIZED.

There have been plenty of times when we have worked together. Tailgates for example. I've been to a few where there were hundreds of people who came together via this website.

When John Lynch was fined for a bogus hit we all rallied together and raised alot of money to send to his charity. Infact I ran into Lynch's wife shortly after that and she said "Thanks to the Orangemane Community". This was two years ago before the Colts playoff game.

When Katrina hit alot of us got together and raised money and donations for the victims that ended up in Denver.

Now we have this. A player of the team we all enjoyed watching, respected, and in some cases knew was taken away from us, the Broncos, the Denver community.

I guess what I'm saying is we probably have a Billion or so hours that will be spent on the Orangemane this year. I think all of us have time to send an email to a local politician as Atlas suggested in this thread, we might have an extra football laying around we could donate to the Rev's organization, we might have an hour to donate to help him with an event. We might have an extra 5 bucks that we'd normally spend on a 6 pack of beer. You get my drift.

I'd just hope that of the 603 posts that were made on the Dwill thread that those people who took the time to pay respects to his death might take a little of that energy to help save another life. I'm not saying this organization is the only one out there but I don't see alot more options being brought forward in the local media or this website.

I'd love to see a running list of all of them really and maybe we can help several of them? Makes no difference to me.

I do know that we are all Broncos fans and with that IMO we are all in this together if not for the sake of helping a troubled teen in Denver but to honor Darrent's Williams life.

RIP DARRENT your life was not taken without purpose and you won't be forgotten.

[bjeffrey]

To Meck and BigPLayShay:
I understand that random violence from gangs is not confined to the clubs. If that's how you took my post, we miscommunicated. Hell, I live in the mountains and my looney neighbor got boozed up one night and started raking the trees between our houses with an AK. Happens anywhere. The point was: If you're gonna pay to support "gansta" music, clubs, activities, you're supporting REAL gangsta's indirectly. If your CHOOSING to hang where they hang, and especially, if you emulate their dress, hand signals, etc., because you want to look "dangerous", you need to accept some of the responsibility if you get hurt. That doesn't make everyone at a hip-hop club a gangbanger, but if they don't think they're taking a risk, it makes them somewhat naive.

[fontaine]

Well said and I can't agree more and that is why I went on a search of such a program. It found me via my tv. I know not everyone out there has local Denver access but everyone on here has the internet. http://www.therev.org/

Well I commend you then. My fiance is head of a Private Social Care organization that aids in education of underprivledged children from traumatized/screwed up families to I try so help out that way and strongly believe that education and instilling good values at a young age can make a difference. It's amazing how kids who have had very little parenting or none at all just want some direction and an adult voice to guide them. Organizations, schemes, and youth programs obviously can't replace absent or even worse, negligient/bad parenting but they certainly help turn the tide.

Take me for example, without edumacation I would be far more of an a$$hat than I already am!
Ha!

[alkemical]

The thread was a call to Action by Atlas for some change in Denver.

Could you please take your personal battle to pms or start another thread to fight with Spdirty on? You already said you don't plan on helping in Denver Clav and that is what this thread is about or that was it's intent when Atlas started it.


No, this was a thread about calling for "war" against gangs, and this isn't on the Darrent Williams Tribute Thread.

The discussion evolved into maybe some ifs/ands/whys about gang violence.

Thus that's where the conversation is and was. If someone wants to stereotype or classify, they need to understand that that's not how things work.

If you have a problem with this, I'm sorry - but ce la vie.

Oh and for the comment of me not helping out in Denver. Why should I, i dont' live there and my own community has issues. So please, if you were on your horse when you typed this.....

[PLOWHORSE]

Hey Meck..Let's start an action group called B.A.G.

Broncos/fans Against Gangs. I live in Phoenix where it ain't no picnic either, but if we as a whole can get some attention paid to this dilemma, I'd be willing to volunteer. Maybe someone with some pull within the Broncos organization, and the NFL can get this rolling. I could start up the southwest chapter with help from MALCONTENT and Ludo.

[alkemical]

Gangs are part of black culture, especially in the poorer black neighborhoods.

The crips, the bloods, hell even hip hop, rap music has gang roots.



Say what?

Hip-Hop does - but it also sells too - so how much is real and how much is fake? Celebration of a lifestyle doesn't make it true on all fronts. Of course when i listen to "The Roots" or "A tribe called quest", i don't hear much about gang violence in there - yet they are hip-hop.

Or when i was homeless and being asked to join some white gangs for "protection" -

Here i am, white and being asked to join a gang where i can get work.

Imagine that.

[alkemical]

My big brother of a week turned out to be a child porno freak....messed up.

It's all about choices...I understand some people didn't have the opportunities I have had...conversely others have had more. there is zero excuse for people that sell illlegal drugs like crack, Hm or coke..and people that carry guns and shot people in limo's.

They should be eliminated because they know what they are doing is wrong.



This i agree with GB (not elimination so to speak, sounds too "Final Solution" IMO) -

But you move from maybe some core root issues, to just a reactive solution. it doesn't add up to a step in the right direction, or a "solution" if you will. Just my opinion.

[fontaine]

You are right. The breakdown of the black family is a big problem in America. Single parent homes are definatley a cause of this but what can we do about that?

Single parent homes are a growing reality internationally in other first world countries too but it doesn't always lead to gang violence, be they black, white whatever the hell. I don't have all the answers but I do know resources, be they programs geared towards education for both kids and adults, or a better system of welfare etc do help.

And I think we can't just burden law enforcement agents unfairly with the task of changing anti social behavioural patterns and attitudes among the criminal element. Cops are there to enforce the law, not change lifestyles and anti social attitudes among gang members which is what is required.

In places like Sao Paolo there are more and more (corrupt) cops and they do a great job of arresting gang members. So much so that in an average prison cell (yes ONE CELL) you could have up to 20 gang members who each have individual plastic bottles to urinate in and plactic bags for defecation which are hanged outside the cells.

Once a day the are let out for prayer. That's it. But the next batch of young gang members (mostly from street children) are ready to take their place on the streets because they're going through the same cycle of poverty, lack of education, no family structure etc and it will continue that way until the root causes are addressed.

[Meck77]

Hey Meck..Let's start an action group called B.A.G.

Broncos/fans Against Gangs. I live in Phoenix where it ain't no picnic either, but if we as a whole can get some attention paid to this dilemma, I'd be willing to volunteer. Maybe someone with some pull within the Broncos organization, and the NFL can get this rolling. I could start up the southwest chapter with help from MALCONTENT and Ludo.

Well plowhorse the more people that step up and say I'm willing to do something the stronger we become as a group and the more we can get done.

I'm open to any and all ideas. I just know we are all going to spend alot of time on this website this year so why not work together on something positive to 1) help make a dent against gang violence 2) not let D-wills life be forgotten. I'd think most Broncos fans could agree with that.

If D-will life can spark some change beyond Denver and spread to phoenix I have to believe D-will would be smiling from above. :thumbs:

For right now I'm trying to get as much info and grasp the whole situation. I've gravitated to "open door" just because they have tangible programs inplace and have been fighting the fight for 20 years.

There are some links on the site. They might be able to give you contacts in the Phoenix area?

Right now I've got a running list of people who said they want to donate some things that Reverend Kelly was asking for on his webiste. Computers, sporting goods, volunteers to be mentors for the kids etc.

It very well could be that the Broncos step up with some ideas that we Broncos fans can help with. As of now this is all the information I have and the best ideas I've been able to come up with.

I think the key right now is to keep momentum building with Broncos fans who want to help. The more info we can gather and ideas we can come up with to attract other people who want to make a difference the better.

[alkemical]

Single parent homes are a growing reality internationally in other first world countries too but it doesn't always lead to gang violence, be they black, white whatever the hell. I don't have all the answers but I do know resources, be they programs geared towards education for both kids and adults, or a better system of welfare etc do help.

And I think we can't just burden law enforcement agents unfairly with the task of changing anti social behavioural patterns and attitudes among the criminal element. Cops are there to enforce the law, not change lifestyles and anti social attitudes among gang members which is what is required.

In places like Sao Paolo there are more and more (corrupt) cops and they do a great job of arresting gang members. So much so that in an average prison cell (yes ONE CELL) you could have up to 20 gang members who each have individual plastic bottles to urinate in and plactic bags for defecation which are hanged outside the cells.

Once a day the are let out for prayer. That's it. But the next batch of young gang members (mostly from street children) are ready to take their place on the streets because they're going through the same cycle of poverty, lack of education, no family structure etc and it will continue that way until the root causes are addressed.



Great points.

[azbroncfan]

After reading the RMN article on Walls and Portis' brush with gangs, After Porter getting shot, The Nugget getting shot and D' Will getting murdered, The city of Denver must step up and crack down on gang violence. This is amazing at what is going on here. Where is the Mayor in all this.

I would love it if we could start an e mail campaign to say that this is unacceptable.


WHy are these nightclubs so dangerous?

Maybe more security is needed at these places.

Any ideas on this??

Because that is what the HIP HOP culture promotes. Hookers, drugs, violence, gangs. They kill each other over the respect issue. Respect=excuse to be a thug and kill someone.

[alkemical]

Doesn't Hip-Hop Culture also celebrate mobsters, real and fictional?

Many allusions to Gotti, Sopranos, Capone, Scarface, GodFather trillogy -

Mob/gang life has been celebrated and alluring for lots of people. Wait, most of those mobsters were white... am i missing something. ;)

[fontaine]

Doesn't Hip-Hop Culture also celebrate mobsters, real and fictional?

Many allusions to Gotti, Sopranos, Capone, Scarface, GodFather trillogy -

Mob/gang life has been celebrated and alluring for lots of people. Wait, most of those mobsters were white... am i missing something. ;)

The Media dictates what is wrong and right ofcourse! The Sopranos are cool but black gang violence is evil and must be wiped out because it hurts the baby Jesus.

It doesn't matter that there has been violent and bloody gang related crime committed as far back as when the Irish, Italian etc immigrants first landing in the east coast who brought it over. It doesn't matter that the Triads/Russians are probably the most profitable/widespread gangs in the US now and dwarf the Bloods and Crips in organization and serious crime.

What matters is that the media loves to portray certain news as a Hot Topic. Be it black gang related crime, paedophiles, or terrorists.

Why cover buddhist monks in detail and their non violent resistence against the slow genocide they face at the hands of the ****ing Commies, when people who use terrorism instead give huge TV ratings and ofcourse you can't speak ill of China, the red giant since they were granted most favoured trade status because of all the cheap, useless sh*t they produce.

[Willynowei]

lol i see some big over reaching, generalizing arguments here. I've lived in three major cities in the US and its not this bad everywhere. Clubs in Ny and Boston here on the east don't have trouble this heavy.

So now you've got Darrent, Joey Porter, Lelie, Droughns, Portis, Walls and a whole bunch of other Denver athletes on three different, seperated incidents with in a 3 year period.

You're going to tell me that its not a problem with Denver specifically? Sounds like it to me. Its not some big social change you have to make, its simple. You get armed policemen on the blocks who shoot the **** out of these idiots and problem solved. The guy that pulled a gun on Portis should've been removed by the police immediately after he started loitering outside the Club.

Doesn't get any simpler than that, you fight fire with fire. Lack of police force, that is all it is.

[fontaine]

Its not some big social change you have to make, its simple. You get armed policemen on the blocks who shoot the **** out of these idiots and problem solved.

Doesn't get any simpler than that, you fight fire with fire.

Uh, do you have any idea how many gang members have been shot, arrested and sentenced to prison since the 80's?

That really wiped out gang violence didn't it?

I'm not an expert, but it probably had the opposite affect. Gun shot wounds by cops are probably treated as a badge of honor to those gang members who decided to fight fire with fire themselves when they started loading up on Rhino and other armor piercing "Cop Killer" ammunition along with trying to outgun the cops with Mac-10s and automatic weapons.

:rofl:

But maybe you're right. We should start telling cops that it's ok to shoot 11-13 year old kids and younger who are in a gang.

I'm sure that would go down a treat in those neighbourhoods where those kids are from.

[alkemical]

The Media dictates what is wrong and right ofcourse! The Sopranos are cool but black gang violence is evil and must be wiped out because it hurts the baby Jesus.

It doesn't matter that there has been violent and bloody gang related crime committed as far back as when the Irish, Italian etc immigrants first landing in the east coast who brought it over. It doesn't matter that the Triads/Russians are probably the most profitable/widespread gangs in the US now and dwarf the Bloods and Crips in organization and serious crime.

What matters is that the media loves to portray certain news as a Hot Topic. Be it black gang related crime, paedophiles, or terrorists.

Why cover buddhist monks in detail and their non violent resistence against the slow genocide they face at the hands of the ****ing Commies, when people who use terrorism instead give huge TV ratings and ofcourse you can't speak ill of China, the red giant since they were granted most favoured trade status because of all the cheap, useless sh*t they produce.



You don't mean that when i watch tombstone, or "Cops" i'm not being told the real objective truth about what goes on?

[broncosteven]

the only thing they can do is throw these guys in jail at this point and educate the younger kids

I didn't read through the entire thread but I agree with this line.

We need Police to enforce the Laws & protect us, how ever in most cases they are solving crimes after they have been comitted.

I feel we need to reachout to the youth & mentor them during the ages where they make the choice to turn to gangs.

If they are involved in other activites like Sports or Music, something that they need to develop on a week by week basis that keeps them coming back into a center like The Rev's so they get the message & have an adult to talk to at crossroads in their lifes we might keep a couple hundred kids from jumping into a gang.

There is always going to be a group of people that have no regard for society & only care about themselves, who have no problem with killing innocents in cold blood. That is why I have no problem with Deterrents like life in prision or the Death penalty.

Lets just try to make a difference in the lives of kids that need a nudge from the positive poeple in society, they seem to get the nudge from the gangs all the time.

[Willynowei]

Uh, do you have any idea how many gang members have been shot, arrested and sentenced to prison since the 80's?

That really wiped out gang violence didn't it?

I'm not an expert, but it probably had the opposite affect. Gun shot wounds by cops are probably treated as a badge of honor to those gang members who decided to fight fire with fire themselves when they started loading up on Rhino and other armor piercing "Cop Killer" ammunition along with trying to outgun the cops with Mac-10s and automatic weapons.

:rofl:

But maybe you're right. We should start telling cops that it's ok to shoot 11-13 year old kids and younger who are in a gang.

I'm sure that would go down a treat in those neighbourhoods where those kids are from.

look at new york, times square 20 years ago and today. You can have all those sympathizing stories about 40 bullet holes in some dude getting his wallet. the fact is, the other 10 million are protected by those "asshole" cops.

Beefed up police force is what you need for stuff like this.

[broncosteven]

look at new york, times square 20 years ago and today. You can have all those sympathizing stories about 40 bullet holes in some dude getting his wallet. the fact is, the other 10 million are protected by those "a-hole" cops.

Beefed up police force is what you need for stuff like this.

Police are part of the solution

The other part is the kids, our societies FUTURE, having someone there when they need them.

Family is one dynamic in a persons life. Having friends is another. Making sure kids have the right friends and mentors is what people like the Rev are working to do.

[cutthemdown]

If we weren't pissing away all our money in Iraq, we'd have more money to
fight this sort of problem. I know there are a lot of Republicans here
who hate Clinton, but when Clinton was president, he had a goal of
hiring 100,000 additional policemen. When Bush came into office he
promptly eliminated this program. Hundreds of extra cops in Denver
would be a big start in supressing gangs.

True Bush has spent alot on this war on terror. Iraq has muddled it and made it seem like a huge waste. The more police does sound good, but when police are arresting the same people over and over that should also tell you the justice system lets them out to quickly. Or that we need to reform the prison system so we can hold the violent people longer.

[cutthemdown]

Police are part of the solution

The other part is the kids, our societies FUTURE, having someone there when they need them.

Family is one dynamic in a persons life. Having friends is another. Making sure kids have the right friends and mentors is what people like the Rev are working to do.

I think its half and half. Work to keep kids out of gangs and give them a future. But for the ones that do become thugs a justice system that puts them away.

[Odysseus]

There is plenty of things all of us can do even if you don't live in Denver.

I'm in.

The rules of engagement have changed for the cops. If they had this in the 80's gang's would not have the upper hand.

Denver runs hot and cold with violence. There are no BAD neighborhoods in downtown Denver if you carry yourself smart but the place is small. Bad things tend to get out of control fast.

[epicSocialism4tw]

After reading the RMN article on Walls and Portis' brush with gangs, After Porter getting shot, The Nugget getting shot and D' Will getting murdered, The city of Denver must step up and crack down on gang violence. This is amazing at what is going on here. Where is the Mayor in all this.

I would love it if we could start an e mail campaign to say that this is unacceptable.


WHy are these nightclubs so dangerous?

Maybe more security is needed at these places.

Any ideas on this??

Thanks for starting a thread on this. I started one and it went to the Horses Butt.

[TallyBronco]

Single parent homes are a growing reality internationally in other first world countries too but it doesn't always lead to gang violence, be they black, white whatever the hell.

I wish this were true, but I've read a heap of peer-reviewed scientific articles comparing single-parent families with traditional families around the world. And the evidence overwhelming shows increased risk of criminal arrest and conviction, gang involvement, teen pregnancy, suicide, mental illness (depression and anxiety), physical illness---the list goes on---for single-parent families.

Even when researchers control for variables that might explain these findings, such as income, SES, geographic location, neighborhood or city crime levels, education, etc, the effect sizes still remain large.

It is a cross-cultural phenomenon---every country with a significantly large single-parent population shows these effects, by varying degrees. America happens to be a place where single-parent families show particularly strong, positive correlations with these problematic behaviors.

Of course these data are based on averages, so there are always exceptions to the rule. But some people are so ideologically committed to an anti-traditional worldview that they would gladly see civilized society undermined just to sustain their ideology a little longer. Likewise, the New York Times treats the simultaneous decline in crime and rise in prison population nationwide over the last twenty years as some kind of paradox. I find it astonishing how an educated person cannot see the obvious causal relationship between the latter and the former. Until I remember that ideology trumps critical thinking.

Gang violence emerges from a complex of causes, and no single measure, such as midnight basketball, can attack the problem fully. And of course there will always be some degree of gang violence in a country with broadly defined freedoms of association that basically allow people a lot of latitude to make stupid decisions, so long as those decisions don't directly violate state or federal laws.

A basic problem in America today is that Americans have contradictory preferences. They want wide sexual freedom but also a strong regard and support for traditional marriage. They hate divorce but they've adopted no-fault laws nationwide. They want to get tough on crime, but not if doing so means setting off the race-baiters in the media. They want the police to get tough on crime, but they don't take steps to know their neighbors and take care of the little things that can reduce the likelihood of crimenals seeking shelter in the area.

Policy and politics matter a lot. But it's too easy to simply offload the problem onto the government---by shouting for more funding, for example. How many of you are actively involved in your some kind of neighborhood association? How many of you take steps to keep your neighborhood clean, well-lit, repaired after vandelism, relatively free of noise pollution, free of abandoned or unused vehicles, etc etc etc.

American movies are full of profiles in courage, but many Americans are too scared to confront neighbors about noise or litter or other behaviors that devalue real estate and chase out good people. And too often they only make contact with neighbors when there's already a problem, never taking advantage of opportunities to say hello or help out when there's clearly a need (e.g., my neighbor saw me struggling with a stripped tire wrench the other day, came over and brought his tools, unsolicited). Before they know it, the commons has become a tragedy.

[watermock]

You are either part of the solution or part of the problem.

It has to be attacked on all angles. Gang units, police, citizens, and thru gang provention progams, parents, ONLINE BRONCOS fans who care about the team/City of Denver.

OldDude from everything I've read and having talked to Reverend Kelly personally the other day the gang roots of Denver started to grow in 1985. There was an influx of gangs at that time as Denver was seen as a new market to take over and make cash. That is when the big numbers moved in.

Yes people are just starting to wake up. It's a good thing but better late than never.

It's normal that DWill would of garnered more attention. Usually it's gang on gang violence and people just shrug. I would like to see a dress code like the NBA has. That's at least one thing feasable. Maybe if the players had left everything on the field New Years Eve, they would of been too sore and spent to go party. Hell I know it was new years eve tho.

Maybe something good will come out of DWill's death after all.

[watermock]

Famous people getting gunned down by gang members does shine a light on an existing problem. I mean these same gang members are likely to have killed a woman ready to testify. There needs to be a crack down. There needs to be police harrassment of these gang members.

What I meant was by commission is that a commission needs to look into the problem THEN ACT on their findings.

We don't need another damn commision...we need action. When the cops expidite one of these vermin...it turns into another commision, punishment and other crap like lawsuits. The cops know this. Want to ruin your career? Shoot a thug.

[Atlas]

We need to get Tensi hired onto the Denver police force.... He hated gangs!!

[Willynowei]

I wish this were true, but I've read a heap of peer-reviewed scientific articles comparing single-parent families with traditional families around the world. And the evidence overwhelming shows increased risk of criminal arrest and conviction, gang involvement, teen pregnancy, suicide, mental illness (depression and anxiety), physical illness---the list goes on---for single-parent families.

Even when researchers control for variables that might explain these findings, such as income, SES, geographic location, neighborhood or city crime levels, education, etc, the effect sizes still remain large.

It is a cross-cultural phenomenon---every country with a significantly large single-parent population shows these effects, by varying degrees. America happens to be a place where single-parent families show particularly strong, positive correlations with these problematic behaviors.


Individualism, is greater than ever today and its translated into relationships. "what do I want?", "who do I want?". Well, the answer is often "I want an option just in case", and that option always looks better the deeper they go into the current relationships. But who can blame young people, they're just watching out for themselves. So with so many options, you'd rather take the open door than finish what you started sometimes.
People look at it as enlightening, freeing and whats wrong with self-fulfillment? But the result is this generation of "Twixters" as Time calls them, who would rather not settle down. And without these families, these bulking, annoying responsibilities to hold you down, you're free to have fun, free hang around, drinking, loitering... and doing things you'll eventually regret.

Parents no longer tell their kids how they should live, they figure its up to the kids to decide for themselves. And i doubt a lot of people would want life behind a white picket fence.

How do we fix it? We don't, if it really needs fixing, then it will fix itself. The youngsters that later have kids, raise families will start to remember their friends who are 40 and still single. And "Values" and "Tradition", things that seem anachronistic today, will start to be treasured again.

[Garcia Bronco]

We need

Marion 'Cobra' Cobretti

[Meck77]

I'm in.

The rules of engagement have changed for the cops. If they had this in the 80's gang's would not have the upper hand.

Denver runs hot and cold with violence. There are no BAD neighborhoods in downtown Denver if you carry yourself smart but the place is small. Bad things tend to get out of control fast.



Right on.....

[-Slap-]

Likewise, the New York Times treats the simultaneous decline in crime and rise in prison population nationwide over the last twenty years as some kind of paradox. I find it astonishing how an educated person cannot see the obvious causal relationship between the latter and the former. Until I remember that ideology trumps critical thinking.

Very thought provoking post. I just wanted to respond to this part directly. Even as the prison population has exploded in the United States, over two million incarcerated currently, crime numbers are back up across the board. This makes sense to me because you really don't learn much in prison except how to be a criminal. Recidivist offenders have become the economic equivalent of repeat customers in the big business that is the American prison industry.

Between mandatory sentencing guidelines, and the punitive measures taken against prisoners to extend their sentences, we're incarcerating more people than ever before and we're keeping them locked up longer. In that regard, an increase in the crime rate would seem paradoxical, but FBI figures the last two years show steady increases in violent crime nationwide. We're not rehabilitating them, we're warehousing them and training them to become career criminals.

[TallyBronco]

How do we fix it? We don't, if it really needs fixing, then it will fix itself. The youngsters that later have kids, raise families will start to remember their friends who are 40 and still single. And "Values" and "Tradition", things that seem anachronistic today, will start to be treasured again.

I agree that there's a deep narcististic and thoughtless streak in American culture, particularly youth culture. But I see no evidence of an automatic corrective mechanism in our nation. Historically, civilizations that don't take intentional steps toward restoration decline and eventually dissolve. Every generation has to sustain the positive values of the nation.

[TallyBronco]

Between mandatory sentencing guidelines, and the punitive measures taken against prisoners to extend their sentences, we're incarcerating more people than ever before and we're keeping them locked up longer. In that regard, an increase in the crime rate would seem paradoxical, but FBI figures the last two years show steady increases in violent crime nationwide. We're not rehabilitating them, we're warehousing them and training them to become career criminals.

I'd be interested to see those numbers and also whether the prison population for violent offenders has increased or decreased in that time period.

I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility that you could see both an increase in the prison population and an increase in violent crime, simply because violent crime has a complex set of causes---only one of which is length of incarceration for violent crimes.

Recidivism is a big problem without a big solution. I've met a number of non-profit workers who've been involved in anti-recidivist programs, such as Prison Ministries, and I get the impression that they're a partial solution at best and most often only reach that 10% of the population who are thoroughly determined to reform their lives.

[broncosteven]

Well plowhorse the more people that step up and say I'm willing to do something the stronger we become as a group and the more we can get done.

I'm open to any and all ideas. I just know we are all going to spend alot of time on this website this year so why not work together on something positive to 1) help make a dent against gang violence 2) not let D-wills life be forgotten. I'd think most Broncos fans could agree with that.

If D-will life can spark some change beyond Denver and spread to phoenix I have to believe D-will would be smiling from above. :thumbs:

For right now I'm trying to get as much info and grasp the whole situation. I've gravitated to "open door" just because they have tangible programs inplace and have been fighting the fight for 20 years.

There are some links on the site. They might be able to give you contacts in the Phoenix area?

Right now I've got a running list of people who said they want to donate some things that Reverend Kelly was asking for on his webiste. Computers, sporting goods, volunteers to be mentors for the kids etc.

It very well could be that the Broncos step up with some ideas that we Broncos fans can help with. As of now this is all the information I have and the best ideas I've been able to come up with.

I think the key right now is to keep momentum building with Broncos fans who want to help. The more info we can gather and ideas we can come up with to attract other people who want to make a difference the better.

BUMP

[PLOWHORSE]

Double Bump

[Atlas]

Would people in Denver be willing to pay more in taxes for added police and new programs for at risk youths??

I would think an average of $20 a year increase in taxes would be more than enough to throw at this problem.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Would people in Denver be willing to pay more in taxes for added police and new programs for at risk youths??

I would think an average of $20 a year increase in taxes would be more than enough to throw at this problem.

Maybe, but it is more of a regional issue. The gangs have spread to most of the suburbs

[Atlas]

Maybe, but it is more of a regional issue. The gangs have spread to most of the suburbs


I'm talking about what Denver can do. If the people give the police some latitude so they can bump some heads and put some pressure on these gangs they can make a difference.

You see what Gulliani did in New York to rid that City of gang violence. Now granted an improving economy helped a lot but Gulliani had a plan and he executed it. Denver needs to have a have a plan and make it public. Tell everyone that this kind of violence isn't going to be tolerated.

In fact I would have a gang hotline. Where a tactical unit that is soley responsiable will field these calls enter them into a computer and be able to form a strategy.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

I'm talking about what Denver can do. If the people give the police some latitude so they can bump some heads and put some pressure on these gangs they can make a difference.

You see what Gulliani did in New York to rid that City of gang violence. Now granted an improving economy helped a lot but Gulliani had a plan and he executed it. Denver needs to have a have a plan and make it public. Tell everyone that this kind of violence isn't going to be tolerated.

In fact I would have a gang hotline. Where a tactical unit that is soley responsiable will field these calls enter them into a computer and be able to form a strategy.

I agree. I am just saying it won't cure the problem just to push them all out into the suburbs. It is probably already a bigger problem in some of the suburbs than it is in the C&C of Denver.

[Atlas]

I agree. I am just saying it won't cure the problem just to push them all out into the suburbs. It is probably already a bigger problem in some of the suburbs than it is in the C&C of Denver.

Well, I'm sure if all the gangs are pushed out into the suburbs then gang crime will go down in Denver + it will force the suburbs to do something about it. I'm sure the communities can work together.

[Meck77]

*Update* from Rev.

Heard back from his office via email yesterday. I got the feeling he cruised this website as I did give him the link.

Anyhow he mentioned something about a golf tournament he's organizing for the spring that might be a good fit for the members of this site if anyone wanted to participate in that. I know we have some golfers around here. Even if you aren't I'm sure there are ways to help the touranment "against gang violence" a success. I don't have alot more details than that right now.

He also is looking to expland his "cool cars" program which I mention earlier on the thread. The idea with this program is to help kids stay off the streets by learning skills with fixing up "cool cars", working as a team, etc. There is more info on his website about this.

I told the Rev I was personally interested in that one being that I've been inolved with the renovation of a vehilce before and offered up OF1 to his group for various fundraisers/other events in the future.

Again the Rev is taking a long term approach to fighting gang violence but he did mention that computers are an immediate need. We had a few members here mention they have a few extras to donate. I too have some extra equipment I don't need.

I'm playing phone tag with Rev now but I'm hoping to get ahold of him later today to get details on where to send/drop off equipment/what exactly he is looking for.

DW is gone and unfortunately it took his life to wake alot of us up but atleast people are paying attention now. The key is to not forget about D-will and continue to support programs like Rev's or other gang prevention/outreach organizations......

[clarkster]

If we weren't pissing away all our money in Iraq, we'd have more money to
fight this sort of problem. I know there are a lot of Republicans here
who hate Clinton, but when Clinton was president, he had a goal of
hiring 100,000 additional policemen. When Bush came into office he
promptly eliminated this program. Hundreds of extra cops in Denver
would be a big start in supressing gangs.

again, we can always blame Iraq for our own short comings. matter of fact, Iraq is responsible for lung cancer too. sorry man, not trying to be a prick, jsut happens naturally, especially when this topic comes up

without reading the entire post, i think society as a whole has become comfortable with saddling responsibility on the city/state/federal government, and at the same time shackled those very same people with BS rules and demands. again, its an opinion, but here it is...
police brutality, yeah right, not allowed. not a day goes by when i dont hear about how brutal the police are to people, and i definitely understand there are circumstances when they are, but dont we expect them to "take control of the neighborhoods" then tie their hands?
same thing with terrorists/Iraq. We expect victory but then expect the people to play a game (its no game either, just a metaphor) against an opponent that doesnt follow the rules? then get outraged when one of our own team doesnt follow the rules? how many people are outraged by GITMO detainees? how many people get outraged when you hear about a police shooting, even if the suspect was endangering others? we all say"theres got to be a better way, he/she didnt have to be shot"
heres what i see that needs to happen as a whole
1-people need to take control of their own communities. simple right? yeah everyone wants to until theres danger involved. then its someone elses responsibility.
2-if you want to win a war against a faction(terrorists,insurgents, gangs), you have to fight them dirty sometimes. at some point, someones got to get dirty and get the "wet work" done. the public doesnt want that.
in general, the public doesnt know whats best for it, but we all insist that we do. we insist that certain things are done a certain way. dont offend, dont violate rights, dont isolate, dont hurt someones feelings. when its said and done, youve PCed yourself into a corner and then the general answer among everyone is to blame someone else. walk away and take the easy way out.
that my friends will be the downfall of this fine country if you ask me.
im a firm believer that theres nothing in this world that a good ass kicking or good nights sleep wouldnt take care of.
i dont know, but i know that when given the opportunity, i will follow a higher power. i try to let my life be ruled by morals and integrity more than fear. im not perfect though.

[watermock]

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/3164/therevkj4.jpg

I'm glad that mean lookin' dude is on the good side now. He kinda looks like that guy in Pulp Fiction Ha!

Only meaner!

[Meck77]

Good poster Clarkster. I agree with alot of what you have to say. There is no doubt the hands of the police are tied. Infact it would be interesting to see how many police Denver actually has dedicated to fighting gangs directly. I think the number would be shocking. Here is our Denver Gang Unit website. Two guys officers standing by a car. http://www.denvergov.org/dephome.asp?depid=1075

I saw your post on the Darrent Williams Child fund thread also Clarkster. It is sad that the children of Iraq war veterans don't get this attention but hopefully there are people stepping up to the plate who know those families. I'm not aware of any national donation organization for those kids?

The reality is people like to talk alot but talk doesn't get things done. This issues needs to be fought on all fronts. More police, a judicial system that actually prosecutes crimes, more people getting involved on the community level ie United Way, programs like Rev, being more vigilant on the streets etc.

Bottom line is we Broncos fans can do nothing or do something.

How many times have you heard a grieving mother say "If my childs death will help prevent JUST ONE life out there than his/her life was not wasted in vain". I have a feeling that is how D-wills mom feels and I think we need to do our part to help save that one life.

[watermock]

We should be able to send some older puters to save on disposal costs...Ha! I might have an old one in the garage at the lake that is pristine...frozen condition. My brother stole another, and my ex GF stole another.

That place is so junked up who knows how many components I could find....this newest E-Maching has been bulletproof and was 350.

I like the idea of cool cars to give them some hands on skills.

[Meck77]

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/3164/therevkj4.jpg

I'm glad that mean lookin' dude is on the good side now.

Same here. He definetly isn't scared. I know I've posted this info before but I can't find any other people in Denver with the guts to identify all the gangs, what they look like, where they hide etc other than him. The Rev has put himself out there and is taking the issue head on. No reason we can't scratch together 5 bucks, a computer, some sporting goods, a couple hours of time to help him/kids.


From his website:

For Parents, concerned Families and Friends

Is your kid in a gang? Do you suspect that he or she might be?

Please read:

We get a lot of calls at Open Door Youth Gang Alternatives from parents who are concerned that their children might be involved in gang activities. While we encourage you to continue to call us, the following information will give you some tips on how to spot potential gang involvement. Look for these signs, and then give us a call. We offer programs that steer kids away from gangs and into more positive alternatives.

About GANGS

* Black
* Mexican Nationalistic and Hispanic
* Anglo
* Asian
* Female


CRITERIA for identifying a gang member:

1. Does the child express self-proclamation, "I'm a Blood" or "Crip"?
2. Does this subject live in gang area?
3. Does he or she associate with known gang people?
4. Does the person have a history of school problems related with gang activity?
5. Does the person have a police record or contacts associated with gang activity?

Traits/Characteristics of a gang member:

* Unskilled
* Untrained
* Unemployed
* Uneducated
* Frequently members of minorities
* Possess little or no power or prestige in their communities
* Lower to mid-socio economic classes
* Multiple family problems
* Frequently from single-parent homes; many times the family exists on welfare
* No parental supervision exists during the days or evenings
* Little or no parental affection or inspiration to seek higher goals and/or values



* Constantly exposed to deplorable lifestyles and conditions
* Constant conflict with other people (frequently surfacing at the school level)
* Exposed to violence and street crime
* Do not recognize the middle-class value of education
* Do not recognize the importance for future success and status
* Street-wise and street-smart
* Previous official contact with the police
* Will (by the age of 15 years) be social and school dropouts

NOTE: It is easy to generalize and classify young people as gang members because of dress and/or attitude - when in fact, they may not be associated with a gang.

BLACK GANGS

BLOODS - Denver

Territory: East of Colorado Blvd., 22nd Ave. North to 38th Ave. (includes Montbello and Curtis Park area and Aurora). This group is guided and under the influence of Big City Gang members from Los Angeles, California. Their main objective is earn money ($$) from the sale of crack. Several sets within the Bloods:

* Crenshaw Mafia Gangsters, C.M.G.
* Lincoln Park Pyru
* Parkhill Bloods, P.H.B.
* Inglewood Family Bloods
* Bounty Hunter Bloods, B.H.B.
* Forest St. Bloods
* Pyru Bloods
* W/S Brim Bloods



* Hoover Bloods (Aurora)
* Dog Possee Bloods
* Grape St. Bloods
* Pretty Boys
* Lime St. Bloods
* 51st Ave. Bloods
* Duece Nine
* Duece Six

Wearing Apparel

* RED is their color, as well as, other colors: grape, green
* Bandanas, shoelaces, suspenders, belts, tennis shoes, ball caps, jerseys, gloves, pants (usually baggy and hanging)
* These gang members adopt certain brand names of tennis shoes (examples):
o Caribbean Knights - (red and white with the "CK" on the heel) - In gang jargon, the "CK" would mean "Crip Killers" (their rivals). This group would also wear St. Louis ball caps - associated with Crenshaw Mafia Gangster blood group
o San Francisco Giants - as well as other Professional and College team caps and jerseys
o If a group is observed ALL wearing the same type of cap, jersey, etc. - it would be an indication that they may belong to one group or the other

--Individual sets will have their own haircuts (styles)
--Fingernails (small finger nail will be painted red)

Both Bloods and Crips have borrowed a lot of Hispanic street gang attire (baggy pants, plaid workshirts, patent leather shoes); but the BLACK GANGS have now adopted their own identifying attire in the form of athletic name brand clothing.

CRIPS - Denver

Territory: Downing to Colorado Boulevard, 22nd North to 38th Ave., includes Montbello. This gang, like the Bloods, is under the guidance and influence of Big City Gang members from Los Angeles, California. The Crips or Cuzz or Rolling 30 or 60 as they are known, originated as did the "Bloods" in L.A., California. An older Denver gang, the Gigolos and the Greeks were "rolled over" by an L.A. Crip gang member and became known as the (Denver) Rolling 30 Crips. The Crips outnumber the Bloods. Several sets within the Crips are:

* Rolling 30
* Compton Crip Ridders
* Rolling 60
* Black Hole Possee
* 357, 2nd Street Mall
* Dog City Crips
* GNX Possee
* Tray -Tray 33rd
* West Side Rolling 30



* Kitchen Crips
* Compton Crips
* 7th St. Watts
* Raymond Ave. Crips
* 4-Tray
* Medema Boys
* Strictly Possee
* AK "Anybody Killer"
* 8-Tray

Wearing Apparel

* BLUE (primarily) is this gang's colors, but could range to other dark colors.
* They wear L.A. Raider caps, Houston Oiler (blue caps), L.A. Dodger caps, Georgetown basketball caps, bandanas, etc.
* The Crips will wear the "British Knight" tennis shoes (blue and white with the "BK" on the heel indicating "Blood Killers".

The Rolling 30's Cuzz, or Crips as they are referred to, operate identically to the Bloods. Both use hand signals, and on occasion, will use a form of Pig Latin in conferring with one another.

Each gang will have a female auxiliary (Crips are the Crippettes; Bloods are Queen Bees or the Pink Panthers, Strawberries, Bloodettes). The female gang members are usually middle school age 12-14 with the harder core female gang members ranging in age from 15-17 years old. They have initiation rites with most of them becoming gang members because their boyfriends are gang members. They have to "walk the line" (being beaten by gang female members as they walk the line). Frequently, the female gang member is more vocal and will carry and conceal the weapons for their boyfriend "homeboys". The female gang members will also wear colors and distinctive clothing. The (Dog Possee) female auxiliary is also known as the "Bitch Possee".

MEXICAN NATIONALIST AND HISPANIC GANGS

It was thought that most of these gangs had died out, but there is evidence of their resurgence. They claim gang turf and usually roam in packs. These gang members are very macho.

MEXICAN NATIONALIST GANGS

Territory and Gangs:

* 1 (Primero) -1st and Galapago St. area
* 10 (la Diez) - 10th and Santa Fe
* Oldies 13-37 - Cole Middle School area
* Martins Boys - same as the Oldies 13-37
* Linia 13 - Globeville area (Argo Park)
* East Side Diamonds - 28th and Stout St.
* Chi 30 - 31st and Stout St.
* 32nd - 32nd and Clay St.
* 14th VCL (Varrio Catorce Locos) - 14th and Kalamath
* 34th - 35th and Franklin St.

Note: Several of these gangs are now allied with the Bloods and the Crips.

HISPANIC GANGS

Territory and gangs:

* Warlords J.S.G. - Central and N.W. Denver
* Lotto Kings - 3rd and Inca (allied with Crips)
* Inca St. Boys - North Lincoln Park Housing Development
* W.W.H. (huds) - South West Denver, Westwood Housing Development
* Clan - Sun Valley Housing Development
* Miami Boys - Lower West Side

Wearing Apparel

* Distinctive clothing such as Pendleton shirts (worn outside of pants and not tucked in, with only the top 3 buttons buttoned)
* Prefer loose fitting khaki pants and web army type belts
* Very meticulous with hair always neatly combed and closely cut
* Favor tattoos usually of their group name and often have significant meaning, such as a "tear drop", which would indicate
o a fallen homeboy or a killing of a rival gang member
o having served one year in an institution

Hispanic gang graffiti is extremely significant and will usually be done in very stylish script.

Both Hispanic and Mexican Nationalist gangs will have female auxiliaries, but they play a much lower role. There is a rivalry that exists between Hispanic and Mexican Nationalist gangs.

ANGLO GANGS

They dress to shock the observer and draw attention to themselves. Punkrockers began in England in the early 1970's.

* Skinheads/Ladds

The potential for these gangs to develop is great; but as of now they are not organized. There has been some graffiti activity indicating their presence. There are 75-80 Hardcore Skinheads in Denver with additional cells (groups) in Castle Rock and Colorado Springs.

The Skinheads are influenced by KU KLUX KLAN (KKK), Aryan Nation, Nazi beliefs as well as Los Angeles, California Skinhead gangs. The Skinhead movement is heavily into Hardrock and Heavy Metal music (they will often sponsor Skinhead bands at local theaters).

There exists a great potential for Skinhead recruitment within the "Punker" movement as well as Hispanics.

Wearing Apparel

* Green nylon flight jacket
* Leather jackets
* British made leather boots
* They display Nazi emblems on their clothing (tattoos, Nazi swastika, storm trooper insignia). Hair style is usually short cropped
* Earrings are often worn

ASIAN GANGS

Very low key. On occasion, some criminal activity, but always aimed at the Asian business community.

BLACK GANG SLANG TERMS

Tray or Set -- A sub group within the overall gang.
High Roller -- Usually a hard core gang member who is dealing narcotics, usually dripping gold (necklaces, jewelry) and wearing expensive sportswear.
Slob or Slus -- Blood gang member. (This term is used by Crip when referring to Blood)
Crab or Erick -- Crip gang member. (This term is used by Blood when referring to Crip)
Cuzz and Blood -- A person who is involved in gang activity.
Gang Banging -- Term used by Crip when referring to another: "What's up Cuzz". The Bloods will state "What's up Blood".

Homeboy or Homes -- This is an endearing reference to another gang member.
Primo -- Marijuana cigarette laced with crack.
Crack or Rock -- Cocaine that has been "cut" with other substances such as baking soda or ammonia. Through a heating process the result is a white or light tan paste which dries into chunks and flakes. This is referred to as "CRACK" (the name derived from the cracking sound made when baking soda is heated).

Sherm, Wack -- Liquid juice P.C.P.
Jiving -- Attempting to fool someone
Lady -- Girlfriend

Man -- Police
Rag -- Bandana, worn by gang member to identify his gang. Red for Blood. Blue for Crip. Usually worn neatly folded and left hanging from rear pocket.
Redeye -- Hard stare (this will often cause a fight)

Tray-Eight -- 38-caliber gun
Four-Five -- 45-caliber gun
Double deuce -- 22-caliber gun

Drop a dime or hang a jacket -- Snitch on someone

STREET NAMES

Most Black and many of the Mexican Nationalist gang members will adopt street names and will utilize them in their graffiti and when referring to themselves. The use of street names will also extend to the Mexican Nationalist female gang members.

Black Street Names: (examples)

P-loc, D-Dog, Lil "g" Dog, Trigger, Ice, Little 45, Ty Bud

Mexican Nationalist Street Names: (examples)

Oso (Bear), Flaco (Skinny), Wedo (Anglo looking), Chino (Oriental looking), Smiley, Puppet.

Female graffiti is usually accompanied with "la" (Example: LaChina, LaFina, LaBecky).

GANG STRUCTURE

Most gang members are usually unskilled, untrained, unemployed, under employed, uneducated (most are dropouts), members of minorities and possess little or no power and prestige in their communities. They usually develop relationships with others that fall into their category of aggressive anti-social behavior.

Gang members can be classified as Hardcore, Associate and Peripheral.

1. The Hardcore - gang members are the ones who direct and perpetuate the activities of the gang. They are the leaders and dedicated gang members who plan, manage and manipulate the day-to-day activities of the gang. They are the inner clique of the gang.
2. The Associate - gang member is the follower. This type of gang member represents the vast majority of the gang. They are the foot soldier; these are the people who jump in and out of gang activity and are not privy to the strategies, plans and intelligence of the gang, as is the "hardcore" member.
3. The Peripheral - the group represents the "Wannabe". They are not part of the gang structure. They are the copy cats who talk and act the role of a gang member.

THE FEMALE GANG MEMBER

They gravitate to the street gang for the same reason as the male gang members: to fill a void and to seek out the gang for status, guidance, identity, protection, excitement and to fulfill the attention they need. The role of the female in the gang is one of subservience.

AGE AND GANG STRUCTURE

Pewees
Ages 10 to 12 years-these are the elementary age youngsters who reside in the gang area and who are being influenced by brothers, sisters, relatives or friends who are gang members.

Juniors
Ages 12 to 14 years-these are the "wannabes". Frequently, they will graffiti their notebooks, lockers and clothing with gang symbols. They are the most influenced and usually are from the gang neighborhood.

Homeboy, Home or "Gang Banger"
Ages 14 to 20 years-these are the Associate and Hardcore members who make up the gang. The totality of their activity is geared toward the gang, most are school dropouts on their way to becoming social dropouts.

Other
After 20 years of age, the gang member who has gone from Peewee to Junior to Homeboy is no longer accepted by the 14 to 17-year old gang banger. They are considered veterans and by this state in their lives, will have been in and out of trouble with the law, will be institutionalized, be actively involved on the street as the "Highroller", will have settled down to join the main stream of society, or will be dead or maimed as a result of the gang life that they led.

Click here to view a pdf illustration of gang hand signs and graffitti

How to cope with grief caused by gang violence and death

Click here for a list of frequently asked q

[clarkster]

you know i just had another thought on this as well
how many parents are proud of their gang banger? either they dont know(unacceptable), dont care/have the courage to be a parent(even worse) or are content with blaming the system(ridiculous)
Ill gladly go to jail for child abuse or be accused of being a ****ty father if it means my child learns right from wrong or blame the system for their short comings. thats crap. and i dont buy the whole "they dont have a choice" **** either. again, im not perfect, just getting along best i know how like you all.

[alkemical]

Clarkster,

In some instances - it's not pride - but that "gangbanger" might be the breadwinner for the whole family.

Just a different perspective.....

[Meck77]

We should be able to send some older puters

Ok I just got off the phone with Rev's office. He has an assistant Terri that works there. He also has 3 full time staff members and 18 or so part time people.

All of their current computer systems are REAL old/slow so they are in desperate need to update the nuts and bolts of the operation.

Being an interent based community I have to believe we have the resources to pull together 4 nice newer systems?

I know Big Guy and BroncoSteven said they might have some stuff.

I'd like to kick this drive off by donating one new system. Anyone out there in computer sales that I could purchase a system from to ship to the Rev's office? When I bought computers for my office I bought basic desktop dells for about 500 bucks a piece that work great. If nobody has any better ideas I could just go to dell.com and have a unit shipped but I figure why not keep it inhouse and help an omaner out with a sale if possible.


Ok we need 3 more set ups. I'm sure if one person doesn't have a complete system to donate we could easily piece one together with several thousand active members here......:thumbsup:

If we do piece together some systems maybe someone local could help the Rev get them all up to speed and make sure they work?

I spoke with No1Broncosfan about a week ago and he said he wanted to help. Maybe he would have some time to get all the stuff working properly when we pull this together. I know he's real good with computers.

[clarkster]

again i go back to strong family values. i cant think of any member of my family that would accept money earned from crime and the degradation of society. i see your point though, im sure theres parents out there that are fine with it as long as theres money in the house. thats tragic...

[clarkster]

Ok I just got off the phone with Rev's office. He has an assistant Terri that works there. He also has 3 full time staff members and 18 or so part time people.

All of their current computer systems are REAL old/slow so they are in desperate need to update the nuts and bolts of the operation.

Being an interent based community I have to believe we have the resources to pull together 4 nice newer systems?

I know Big Guy and BroncoSteven said they might have some stuff.

I'd like to kick this drive off by donating one new system. Anyone out there in computer sales that I could purchase a system for to ship to the Rev's office? When I bought computers for my office I bought basic desktop dells for abotu 500 bucks a piece that work great. If nobody has any better ideas I could just go to dell.com and have a unit shipped....


Ok we need 3 more set ups. I'm sure if one person doesn't have a complete system to donate we could easily piece one together with several thousand active members here......:thumbsup:

If we do piece together some systems maybe someone local could help the Rev get them all up to speed and make sure they work?

I spoke with No1Broncosfan about a week ago and he said he wanted to help. Maybe he would have some time to get all the stuff working properly when we pull this together. I know he's real good with computers.

tell you what, ive got one that id gladly send if his programs legit. i think its a monitor, and PC. may even have a printer and a slew of software. closing on my house next week, perfect opportunity to clean house.

[Meck77]

Right on clarkster. It's legit. Feel free to give them a call directly or cruise the website. They are endorsed by the Police chief of Denver, various mayors, the United Way and many others.

There is a ton of info on the site.

They have all the proper paperwork/tax ID # if you choose to donate clarkster.

If you want to call ask for Terri and she can fill you in directly.

(303) 893-4264
Email therev1953@aol.com

The goal is to get 4 sytems together but it probably wouldn't hurt to get more if possible.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Meck - Do they have any specific requirements for the computers? Like operating systems, modems, etc

[Meck77]

No....If you'd like you could call Terri but I got the impression anything newer they can get the better.

A little more follow up on specifics would definetly go a long way so we can build a nice system of 4 computers that work efficiently. I'm just not that computer savy to even ask all the right questions.

Maybe we should talk to whomever helped them with their original system? I'm sure they have someone within the organization who helps/helped them put it together.

[alkemical]

again i go back to strong family values. i cant think of any member of my family that would accept money earned from crime and the degradation of society. i see your point though, im sure theres parents out there that are fine with it as long as theres money in the house. thats tragic...



Clarkster - when you got say 10 or more people living in the house, because of financial issues - and your son - even though you don't like it - puts food in the fridge, pays the rent and utils, etc - Sometimes it's easier to not like it and stay warm and fed.

I always worked for my cash. Even when homeless i didn't take state money, or fed money. I used some things like bus passes provided by King Country, but that was to get to work, etc.

So while i agree with you, don't judge too harshly if you "haven't been there".

I won't go into a ton of detail, but sometimes Mom's don't agree with what their sons do - and they say something about it - but when you got heating oil in the winter - it's hard to think about it.

[Atlas]

OK This is what I'm talking about!!!
From today's Denver post.

Help sought for gang problems
By Felisa Cardona
Denver Post Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 01/17/2007 07:35:16 PM MST


With the spotlight back on the gang problem in Denver because of the high-profile homicide of Broncos player Darrent Williams, community leaders are asking for help.

While the Rev. Leon Kelly of Open Door Youth Gang Alternatives isn't the only person trying to prevent gangs, he's one of a few in Denver who dedicate their lives to it.

During a luncheon held by Kelly and the Kiwanis Club of Denver, community leaders from schools, churches, the Denver Broncos, law enforcement and politicians met to see what could be done to further gang prevention efforts.

"There is a list of service providers, but the list is pretty short," said Denver police Chief Gerry Whitman. "It just isn't there."

Gang Problems?
Discuss gang violence in the metro area. Do you think it's growing worse? What should be done?.
Whitman said he has 42 officers and spends $3.6 million annually to fight the problem, but the community also needs to step up and help.

"Yes, we have a gang problem in Denver," the chief said.

Alvin LaCabe, Denver's manager of safety, said city leaders are committed to dealing with gangs.

"We are getting back to the root causes and remedy what we have perceived to be our issues," LaCabe said. "We will use whatever resources we have."

But Denver isn't the only place. Aurora and other areas of Colorado also have a gang problem, something that may be politically incorrect for politicians and law enforcement to talk about.

Both Whitman and Aurora police Chief Dan Oates did not immediately provide the actual numbers of gang members or the names of the gangs in their cities.

Whitman also declined to say whether Williams' shooting on New Year's Day was a gang-related homicide.

"The investigation is going along very well," the chief said. "We are confident about it being solved."

The Kiwanis Club holds a golf tournament each year to raise money for Kelly's Open Door Youth Gang Alternatives. Over 17 years, they have donated $600,000 to Kelly's organization.

Kelly, an ex-convict turned pastor for wayward youth, needs more money, but he also needs more bodies willing to put long-term time into mentoring children who are at risk.

Joe Ellis of the Denver Broncos met with Kelly for more than an hour last week to come up with ways that the team can help for years to come.

"We can't tackle this alone, though," Ellis said.

Keith Tooley, a former chairman of the Open Door Youth Gang Alternatives board, praised Kelly's prevention efforts, but said one man cannot do it all forever.

"We need to find an individual with passion in their heart, a second, a third deputy," Tooley said. "He's spent decades alone dealing with this."

Anyone interesting in donating or volunteering for Open Door Youth Gang Alternatives may call 303-893-GANG.

[Odysseus]

War on gangs? Did we win the war on poverty or terrorism yet?

[obediah]

If we weren't pissing away all our money in Iraq, we'd have more money to
fight this sort of problem. I know there are a lot of Republicans here
who hate Clinton, but when Clinton was president, he had a goal of
hiring 100,000 additional policemen. When Bush came into office he
promptly eliminated this program. Hundreds of extra cops in Denver
would be a big start in supressing gangs.


100,000 more cops in denver? to do what?? give me more tickets?? your on crack! and way to bring Federal issues to a state level, maybe you should talk about the democratic leaders of this fine state.

I didnt know the Orange Mane has turned political..

Obediah

[Meck77]

Whitman said he has 42 officers and spends $3.6 million annually to fight the problem, but the community also needs to step up and help.
.[/b]


Thanks for posting that artricle. Clarkster that should address your concerns to whether Rev's "open door" organization is the real deal.

Let me know if you can pull thru. I'm still working on trying to come up with the funds/or people to donate two other systems. Nobody else out there has $5.00? an extra monitor? an extra printer?

Come on now folks. Plenty of people were willing to step up at tailgates. Heck there were games where we easily ate/drank $500 worth of food. That was all for fun. This is something that can make a real difference.

There was alot of sadness/frustration/anger of D-will death. This is a way for us to take a proactive step forward in the fight. There is so much more to do but we could EASILY fill one request to help this program out to get organized, get the word out, communicate better, expand, etc etc etc

[clarkster]

Clarkster - when you got say 10 or more people living in the house, because of financial issues - and your son - even though you don't like it - puts food in the fridge, pays the rent and utils, etc - Sometimes it's easier to not like it and stay warm and fed.

I always worked for my cash. Even when homeless i didn't take state money, or fed money. I used some things like bus passes provided by King Country, but that was to get to work, etc.

So while i agree with you, don't judge too harshly if you "haven't been there".

I won't go into a ton of detail, but sometimes Mom's don't agree with what their sons do - and they say something about it - but when you got heating oil in the winter - it's hard to think about it.

maybe not to that extreme(it was me and the old man) but i can say i was there. probably more than i care to divulge...like i said, thats tragic.

[Meck77]

War on gangs? Did we win the war on poverty or terrorism yet?

Well I'd say the war on gangs goes hand in hand with the war on poverty. Education is a key weapon to fight poverty and gangs in the long run. Terrorism well that's a whole other animal. There is no question terrorism is the biggest war front out there but this thread was made to address what is going on in Denver specifically.

Here is another story from CBSnews4.

Business leaders, Broncos, and Rev get together to discuss what can be done....

http://cbs4denver.com/crime/local_story_017225744.html

[Odysseus]

Well I'd say the war on gangs goes hand in hand with the war on poverty. Education is a key weapon to fight poverty and gangs in the long run. Terrorism well that's a whole other animal. There is no question terrorism is the biggest war front out there but this thread was made to address what is going on in Denver specifically.

Here is another story from CBSnews4.

Business leaders, Broncos, and Rev get together to discuss what can be done....

http://cbs4denver.com/crime/local_story_017225744.html

Opportunity is the key. "Dying isn't much of making a living" is all that gang life is about. I am a huge advocate for replacing materialism with education as a value but it's a uphill bitter struggle.

[Atlas]

Opportunity is the key. "Dying isn't much of making a living" is all that gang life is about. I am a huge advocate for replacing materialism with education as a value but it's a uphill bitter struggle.

BOUNTY HUNTER: "A Guy has to make a living."
Joesy Wales: "Dying ain't much of a livin' boy."

[Meck77]

Rocky Mountain News.....More info on Colorado Gang Problem....

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5293528,00.html

[Atlas]

Here is a good, pretty powerful article from the post.

Colors still define gang violence

By Howard Pankratz
Denver Post Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 01/29/2007 07:37:48 PM MST


A Denver gang leader shot and killed a 22-year-old man in downtown Denver because of the color of a shirt the victim was wearing, a key prosecution witness testified Monday in the murder trial of Lamar Blackwell.

Cleus "Hus" Williams told a Denver District Court jury that he had gone with Blackwell to a hip-hop party at Club Beyond, in the Pavilions, on April 4, 2006.

He said that Blackwell, 29, known as "Lil Corn," was offended by the red or maroon shirt Jerome Louis Martin was wearing, because those colors are often worn by members of the rival Bloods gang.

"I met 'Lil Corn' outside and he said, 'We are going to do security.' 'Lil Corn' said he was going to 'merc' him (Martin) - that means he was going to kill him," Williams testified.

Denver deputy sheriffs and Denver police provided courtroom security as Williams, who is being held outside Denver for his own protection, testified.

Williams identified Blackwell as a leader of the gang.

Under cross-examination by defense lawyer Wilbur Smith, who represents Blackwell, Williams admitted he originally misled Denver police about the identity of the killer. He said he was fearful that Blackwell and the gang would target his family.

But he said he told the truth after he spoke to his wife and the police promised they'd protect and relocate his family.

Williams, who described himself as an "associate" of the Crips, said he and Blackwell followed Martin out of the club, just feet behind him. Then, he said, he saw Blackwell shoot Martin about four times from a distance of five feet.

They fled in Blackwell's SUV but were captured by police after a high-speed car chase that ended when Blackwell's car crashed into a police car.

Defense attorney Smith contends that it was actually Williams who killed Martin. But Williams, who said he was handed a gun by Blackwell moments before the shooting, said he shot the gun in the air because he didn't want to hurt anyone. Prosecutors say ballistics tests show the fatal bullets came from the gun fired by Blackwell.

[Atlas]

Amazing that you could be standing on a corner somewhere and get killed because you chose the wrong color shirt.

[usedupbraids]

lol there gangs in denver this is funny...lol why would anyone make a gang lol what chumps

[Meck77]

Amazing that you could be standing on a corner somewhere and get killed because you chose the wrong color shirt.

Well it's a sad reality in many large metro towns who've lost control. Up in my kneck of the woods of Colorado our local police arrested a couple hippies who were dumpster diving. Our judge then sentenced them to jail. They did some time before the national media machine got ahold of the story and put pressure on our local officials to let them out. ;D

Like I've been saying for weeks. Everyone is waiting for someone else to fix the problem. If people want their communities to be safer we are all going to have to pitch in.

[AFCWestFan]

Its not a popular thought I know but when we really think about it, gang violence is usually one group of low lifes banging on another group of low lifes. As mucch as Id like to see it stop, the fact is that these kinds of people will always have these territorial disputes and will be involved in crime. They dont work, they wont work, they dont want to work. They are the dregs of our cities and declaring war on them is a waste of taxpayer money cause it wont stop.

If people dont want to get caught up in thier crap then they should not get involved with them. As my momma used to say, If you lie down with dogs, you will wake up with fleas.

[Florida_Bronco]

Its not a popular thought I know but when we really think about it, gang violence is usually one group of low lifes banging on another group of low lifes. As mucch as Id like to see it stop, the fact is that these kinds of people will always have these territorial disputes and will be involved in crime. They dont work, they wont work, they dont want to work. They are the dregs of our cities and declaring war on them is a waste of taxpayer money cause it wont stop.

If people dont want to get caught up in thier crap then they should not get involved with them. As my momma used to say, If you lie down with dogs, you will wake up with fleas.

I have to disagree with this. In my opinion, you need a higher amount of police patrols in gang territory, and that is where this all starts. It's easier said than done, but if the police make their presence known in these areas you will see crime start to drop.

[alkemical]

I have to disagree with this. In my opinion, you need a higher amount of police patrols in gang territory, and that is where this all starts. It's easier said than done, but if the police make their presence known in these areas you will see crime start to drop.


Then crime moves to where there is a lower police presence......

[Atlas]

If people dont want to get caught up in thier crap then they should not get involved with them. As my momma used to say, If you lie down with dogs, you will wake up with fleas.


That's border line ignorant. Many, many people who have nothing to do with gangs are killed by them every year.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

[QUOTE=Atlas;1464398]That's really ignorant. QUOTE]

Fixed it for you

[AFCWestFan]

People who are in areas of high crime get killed by gangs. Now if we think about this a bit, why on earth would a logical, right thinking person, be hanging out in an inner city area with known gang activity?

See part off the issue here is that it can likely be contained but you wont eliminate the issue. Its deep, social, and a part of the inner city urban experience. Always has been, always will be. Its not a color issue...in Chicago and New York in the 1800s there was similar issues among the inner city people at that time who were poor and turned to crime. So to think its cureable is folly.

For those who do not care to be shot down by gangs, dont go to gang areas, try to choose your friends well, and behave in a civil manner and you will probably have a low risk of gang related death.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

[QUOTE=AFCWestFan;1465205]People who are in areas of high crime get killed by gangs. Now if we think about this a bit, why on earth would a logical, right thinking person, be hanging out in an inner city area with known gang activity?
QUOTE]

Gangs are not confined to inner city areas. They are at Park Meadows and the Boulder Mall.

Obviously you know nothing of the area where DW was murdered. The club is in one of the hottest development areas in the city. It is only a few blocks from where over 100,000 people including many families were on the streets celebrating New Years and watching fireworks.

[broncosteven]

People who are in areas of high crime get killed by gangs. Now if we think about this a bit, why on earth would a logical, right thinking person, be hanging out in an inner city area with known gang activity?

See part off the issue here is that it can likely be contained but you wont eliminate the issue. Its deep, social, and a part of the inner city urban experience. Always has been, always will be. Its not a color issue...in Chicago and New York in the 1800s there was similar issues among the inner city people at that time who were poor and turned to crime. So to think its cureable is folly.

For those who do not care to be shot down by gangs, dont go to gang areas, try to choose your friends well, and behave in a civil manner and you will probably have a low risk of gang related death.

By "staying out gang area's" you are letting gangs win & grow stonger.

They need to be cut down by reaching the youth before they make the choice to join.

If kids are challanged by projects & are around successful people or others striving for success they will be less inclined to go for the easy way out & join a gang.

[Odysseus]

[QUOTE=AFCWestFan;1465205]People who are in areas of high crime get killed by gangs. Now if we think about this a bit, why on earth would a logical, right thinking person, be hanging out in an inner city area with known gang activity?
QUOTE]

Gangs are not confined to inner city areas. They are at Park Meadows and the Boulder Mall.

Obviously you know nothing of the area where DW was murdered. The club is in one of the hottest development areas in the city. It is only a few blocks from where over 100,000 people including many families were on the streets celebrating New Years and watching fireworks.

I think it's hilarious that most people don't get it.

There are ZERO urban areas in Denver. It's Denver. There is no Cabrini Green. There is no Desire housing projects. There is one nice neighborhood strung next to another nice neigborhood. You have a bad person here or there but no really BAD neighborhoods.

That said...how do you have gang bangers literally everywhere in a state that has no bad neighborhoods? It's the people that have changed.

The price of greed is what Colorado is paying for with blood. That place is literally God's country or paradise but what made it beautiful seems to have been part of the price.

The "Bear" used to be a biker bar but now it's just a yuppie wanna be place of choice in Evergreen. Which is worst a couple of bad asses or a 1,000 wanna be's who go out of their way to be bad? If you try to be bad often enough you are probably going to screw up and get it right.

The professional gangs that are there could have been shut down in the 80's. The cops didn't have the balls or backing to do anything.

Leon Kelly had it easy 15 years ago. What he is facing now is literally a tactical nightmare.