President's speech tonight

[Garcia Bronco]

He's committing around 20,000, more troops to Iraq. He mention Iran and Syria allowing these insurgents to move freely through their countries. He also spoke of the Iraqi people needing to take control over their country and practice tolerance in their law making.

Even still the tone was different from all his prime time speeches. Like it's not one sided in congress. It was good.

[El Guapo]

I agree. It was positive that he said its his fault and overall I think it was good as well. :thumbsup:

[spdirty]

I'm done with that man. Watching the nugs and the return of JR Smith. Can't wait till January 2009, unless its a demonrat gettin sworn in.

[pocahontas4me]

I've been floating around on different boards tonight, this is the first I've seen giving the President props for the speech.

You need to go to ... I know what you are going to say .... the Chiefs Planet and go to the DC forum, they are lambasting the President and slandering him at every turn.

[enjolras]

It's entirely the right thing to do.. I still don't understand the position that we should just pull out and let chaos ensue.

[Garcia Bronco]

I agree. It was positive that he said its his fault and overall I think it was good as well. :thumbsup:

That's another thing....he totally took responsibility.

[Garcia Bronco]

I've been floating around on different boards tonight, this is the first I've seen giving the President props for the speech.

You need to go to ... I know what you are going to say .... the Chiefs Planet and go to the DC forum, they are lambasting the President and slandering him at every turn.

I am not talking aboutthe decision and policy. I am just talking about the packaging.

[Spider]

I just hope he isnt bullshítting .................I didnt watch the speech , my daughter did though , she came upstairs and said Bush was on TV , asked me Daddy is he lying again? I told her if his lips move he is lying ...............

[defenseman]

Interesting point during the speech, he mentioned the support to the insurgency in iraq from iran/syria , specifically crossing the border with arms and such. He stated they would seek out and take care of this problem. I suspect, some positioning wrt iran/syria will take place in reasonably short order based on this tactic. Good speech overall. The rebuttal by Sen. Durbin fell short, it appeared the same negative rhetoric. Americans want to win, not lose. The negative approach is disconcerting. Won't wash at all...dman

*then again, the iraqi's MUST step up to the plate. If not, we need to leave them to their own form of self genocide. they really are pissing me off.

[Spider]

Interesting point during the speech, he mentioned the support to the insurgency in iraq from iran/syria , specifically crossing the border with arms and such. He stated they would seek out and take care of this problem. I suspect, some positioning wrt iran/syria will take place in reasonably short order based on this tactic. Good speech overall. The rebuttal by Sen. Durbin fell short, it appeared the same negative rhetoric. Americans want to win, not lose. The negative approach is disconcerting. Won't wash at all...dman

*then again, the iraqi's MUST step up to the plate. If not, we need to leave them to their own form of self genocide. they really are pissing me off.

Durbin had a Speech last night also ? what was it about ............... wait never mind you are to partisan to give me an honest answer , I will look it up myself

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Sacrificing more Americans for his dreams of infamy. Anyone still advocating maiming and killing more Americans for something that will never happen as long as we occupy that country deserves everything Bush gives them.

[defenseman]

Durbin had a Speech last night also ? what was it about ............... wait never mind you are to partisan to give me an honest answer , I will look it up myself

Same rhetoric that you've been hearing for years, and right back at ya..dman

[defenseman]

Sacrificing more Americans for his dreams of infamy. Anyone still advocating maiming and killing more Americans for something that will never happen as long as we occupy that country deserves everything Bush gives them.

Everyone has an opinion...dman

[Spider]

Same rhetoric that you've been hearing for years, and right back at ya..dman

uh I read the transcript , perhaps the same ole rhetoric to someone that only sees 1 side , oh and right back at ?
LOL you dope , I supported Bush until Iraq , so yes I see both sides , Calling Bush for what he is ...........I bashed Dems , But Bush takes the cake ............so Yeah I guess would be a partisan hack to someone that can only see 1 side

[defenseman]

uh I read the transcript , perhaps the same ole rhetoric to someone that only sees 1 side , oh and right back at ?
LOL you dope , I supported Bush until Iraq , so yes I see both sides , Calling Bush for what he is ...........I bashed Dems , But Bush takes the cake ............so Yeah I guess would be a partisan hack to someone that can only see 1 side

Boy you sure showed me now didn't ya, man, I can't believe how truly worldly you really are. All hail spide.....yeah, right....legend in your own mind, you pat yourself on the back quite well....whatever spide....give it a rest....dman

[Spider]

Boy you sure showed me now didn't ya, man, I can't believe how truly worldly you really are. All hail spide.....yeah, right....legend in your own mind, you pat yourself on the back quite well....whatever spide....give it a rest....dman

ask a few here , most thought I was a republican ...............I was called a flip flopper over Iraq , even told to move to france ............

[Muddled]

*then again, the iraqi's MUST step up to the plate. If not, we need to leave them to their own form of self genocide. they really are pissing me off.

Might have listened to what every historian or mideast analyst would have told you, if you'd asked them what would happen if you went in and removed Saddam's regime without a clear plan for peace afterwards with a huge multilateral (not just western) backing. Iraq is a post colonia multicultural mess, there's no way they'd find a way to work together, even if they were not disturbed by every anti-western terrorist. The American presence in Iraq is the reason for the terrorist presence, hence further American deployment, will only further lure terrorists and insurgants to Iraq. It's very hard to believe in any remotely peaceful outcome here, but the only chance is multilateral sollution with clear backing from the more moderate Arab countries.

As a footnote, I'm abhored by how everyone (including the democrats now and the Danish prime minister) talk about how we went to Iraq to liberate the Iraqi people from their brutal dictator, no no no. The only and I repeat only reason given at the time was the threat of Saddam having and being willing to use weapons of mass destruction. This is so 1984 rewriting history, it's scary.

[bendog]

The insurgency? There is no insurgency anymore, even the army admits that. It's a civil war between the sunni and shiia. US casualties are just targets of opportunity to these assholes plus whatever al queda are hanging out.

What's happening now is that Iran is arming the shiaa milita, esp Sadr. Worse is what's happening in Syria. While apparantly no one in the admin bothered to note prior to invading Iraq to "nation build," the ruling elite in syria, the alawi, are shiia, but the country is something like 70% sunni. Hezbollah in a way props up young Assad, but his father kept Hezbollah more at arms length, and worked more in coalition with the syrian sunnis. What worked to stave a peace between Iraq and Syria before was the tenuous relationship of the baath in Syria being shiia dominated, while the baath party in Iraq being sunni dominated.

But hey, wolfowitz's plan was to destablize the Middle East, and its working swimmingly. Iran's investing billions in Syria, and the syrain sunni are nervous. Don't blame em.

As to whether Bushii's new, new, new plan will work? The basic problem remains the same. The iraqis themselves have to root out the death squads, but the death squads are within the all-ah-mucky govt itself. Moreover the "mission" was a republican iraq with all three groups sharing power and living peaceably with one another. Now supposedly the US troops have the ok to root out sadr city, and all-ah-mucky is gonna tell the police going into sadr city after the troops leave to not ack like death squads anymore.

The troops know its at best a shot in the dark. There's nothing they or we can do about it. The one positive is that assuming the congressional democrats continue to behave as adults, the chances are increasing for a democratic landslide in 08. And, now, with the build up, and bushii putting all his chips on all-ah-mucky, it'll be hard for even him to escape responsibility, for the first time in his life btw, for his own actions.

[Spider]

Might have listened to what every historian or mideast analyst would have told you, if you'd asked them what would happen if you went in and removed Saddam's regime without a clear plan for peace afterwards with a huge multilateral (not just western) backing. Iraq is a post colonia multicultural mess, there's no way they'd find a way to work together, even if they were not disturbed by every anti-western terrorist. The American presence in Iraq is the reason for the terrorist presence, hence further American deployment, will only further lure terrorists and insurgants to Iraq. It's very hard to believe in any remotely peaceful outcome here, but the only chance is multilateral sollution with clear backing from the more moderate Arab countries.

As a footnote, I'm abhored by how everyone (including the democrats now and the Danish prime minister) talk about how we went to Iraq to liberate the Iraqi people from their brutal dictator, no no no. The only and I repeat only reason given at the time was the threat of Saddam having and being willing to use weapons of mass destruction. This is so 1984 rewriting history, it's scary.

Messopotania ........... Well no one wants to admit , Dems , world leaders , Cheerleaders , that going into Iraq for WMD is the mother of all screw ups ...
what was done has to have damage control ............ now Afghanistan was the right thing to do , we cant have a war on a tactic , but we can have a war on people , goverment , even religion ............

[bendog]

Why do you assume that WMD was the reason? We know that powell only agreed to invasion on the basis of it would be justified if we knew, or couldn't rule out, that Saddam had a WMD program that could threaten the US.

We also know that he was enraged when he found out that there was intell implicating his UN dog and pony show that he was not given at the time he made the dog and pony show.

[Spider]

Why do you assume that WMD was the reason? We know that powell only agreed to invasion on the basis of it would be justified if we knew, or couldn't rule out, that Saddam had a WMD program that could threaten the US.

We also know that he was enraged when he found out that there was intell implicating his UN dog and pony show that he was not given at the time he made the dog and pony show.

we was told Muchroom cloud , go boom , glow in the dark , be damn lucky if our troops dont trip over the WMDs on their way to baghdad

[bendog]

Yeah, the damn bastard was lying about that too.

Though, still, if the goal was to nation build, we'd have needed the french and german (and russian) cooperation, and the ok of syria and iran too. It's not that the mission was impossible, but the commitment it would take was beyond this administration's moral and political will.

But hey, one in million it still might work.

[Spider]

well I believed the WMD story , after all the Collapse of the Soviet Union + the black market no telling who had what ........... but as time went on it was clear that the WMD charge was trumped up

[bendog]

Oh, hey, I recall Time running almost a whole issue to the possibility ... back in late 2001. Smallpox was the scare. I'd been innoculated in the 60s, and had some degree of protection, but not my kid, and there was no serum on hand. I had extra propane and canned goods laid in. My tent was ready to go. Handguns and shotgun cleaned. Ammo laid out. I had poison for the squirrels. The question was whether I could keep the kid's cat indoors. Me and Ben were moving to the back yard and sealing off the house.

I was all for the war.

Of course ... after Blix ....

But still, it's not impossible to nation build. But you have to have both the committment and the ability to disarm and seal the borders. And, the other countries have to sign on. In Europe they've solved the IRA and the balkans will probably be OK. The basques in Spain are largely politically satisfied.

[TheDave]

Do people realize how pathetic an increase of 20,000 troops really is. At most that puts 5,000 additional boots on the ground at any given time. 5,000 additional people to help resolve the violence in a city that has 6,000,000 inhabitants. That's about as smart as putting a band-aid on the stump of an amputated limb.

Unbelievable, 20,000 more being shipped to the slaughter and people are "Happy" he took responsibility for the previous 100+ F***ups

[Rohirrim]

It's entirely the right thing to do.. I still don't understand the position that we should just pull out and let chaos ensue.

Because, like in Vietnam, whether we pull out now, or a year from now, chaos will ensue. The only question to answer now is how many more Americans will die for Bush's gross malfeasance?

[bendog]

I wonder if bushii has a clue as to how this plays with the troops. NPR had a report out of Washington State ... I think Ft. Lewis or someplace. Not happy campers.

[gunns]

Americans want to win, not lose.

Win what???

No, Bush just wants to be right. And he's not. I prefer to perserve as many men and women as we can. So unfortunate that we have lost as many as we have to make Bush right.

[defenseman]

NPR? Little left leaning are we? Hmmmmm.....dman

[gunns]

Because, like in Vietnam, whether we pull out now, or a year from now, chaos will ensue. The only question to answer now is how many more Americans will die for Bush's gross malfeasance?

Exactly.

[defenseman]

ask a few here , most thought I was a republican ...............I was called a flip flopper over Iraq , even told to move to france ............

You've got to be joking....dman

[bendog]

NPR? maybe. But they don't make up the interviews. You have any evidence that this is playing well with the troops?

[defenseman]

And what will anyone say if, the increase in troops wins the day, shuts down the civil war, secures the syria/ iranian border of additional influx of insurgents/materials and secures iraq for a quasi-democracy? Long term positive influence in the ME wrt the US? ........dman

*Pull out now, we are in trouble in the ME, alot worse than we are presently in. At this point, we have no option but to make an attempt at finally securing Baghdad and the borders of iraq to finally put this to bed. Then again, I wish we could secure our own borders. Tired of the illegals ruining various towns in the midwest. Example: Storm lake, IA.

[gunns]

Have to say one of the first things I thought last night was "is that LBJ promoting escalation?"

We know how that worked.

[TheDave]

Have to say one of the first things I thought last night was "is that LBJ promoting escalation?"

We know how that worked.

I though the exact same thing... By the way did anyone catch this?

This group will meet regularly with me and my administration; it will help strengthen our relationship with Congress. We can begin by working together to increase the size of the active Army and Marine Corps, so that America has the Armed Forces we need for the 21st century.

Is it just me or was this the first hint at the draft?

[bendog]

And what will anyone say if, the increase in troops wins the day, shuts down the civil war, secures the syria/ iranian border of additional influx of insurgents/materials and secures iraq for a quasi-democracy? Long term positive influence in the ME wrt the US? ........dman

*Pull out now, we are in trouble in the ME, alot worse than we are presently in. At this point, we have no option but to make an attempt at finally securing Baghdad and the borders of iraq to finally put this to bed. Then again, I wish we could secure our own borders. Tired of the illegals ruining various towns in the midwest. Example: Storm lake, IA.

And the moon could be made of green cheese. However, the real hawks and guys who served in vietnam, hagel and mccain, have been consistently leery about not having at least 300K troops. The problem has always been the lack of political will to win. The thing will succeed of fail on all-ah-mucky. We gave up our ability to enforce a military will when we disbanded their army. Though, I did read a couple of weeks ago that our military had secretly met with what was the former insurgency - the remnants of the baath army - and they said if we'd reinstall Alawi, kick out all-ah-mucky, and rearm them, they could secure Bagdhad in short order. Funny thing is, I don't really doubt them. But that would not count as a political win.

Believe it or not, I was in favor of nation building even though I was convinced the womd were an illusion, but I was in favor of doing it with Arab, french, german and russian help. And doing it long term. But if you don't think that this whole deal was in part, in large part, to secure the oil fields for exclusive US exploitation, you're kidding yourselves.

[The Lone Bolt]

I didn't hear the speech but I've read about dubya's plan. In the hands of competent leadership it might stand a chance, but Dubya has hopelessly screwed up everything since the invasion and he's bound to screw this up too.

The most important reason for going into Iraq IMO was to rid the world of Saddam. He's dead now, and Bush's imcompetence has made democracy in Iraq extremely unlikely.

Let's bring our boys home.

[alkemical]

Since I had no interest in watching this event, i cannot comment.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

And what will anyone say if, the increase in troops wins the day, shuts down the civil war, secures the syria/ iranian border of additional influx of insurgents/materials and secures iraq for a quasi-democracy? Long term positive influence in the ME wrt the US? ........dman
.
Are there actually people who still don't understand that the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq is a rallying point for both of the radical religious terrorist secs fighting each other in that country?

--------------------------------------------------
70 percent of Americans oppose sending more troops to Iraq
By NANCY BENAC, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Seventy percent of Americans oppose sending more troops to Iraq, according to a new poll that provides a devastatingly blunt response to President Bush's plan to bolster military forces there.

All sides in the Iraq debate are keenly aware of mounting public dissatisfaction with the situation: Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice said Thursday it's one thing on which all Americans — including administration officials — are united.

Yet the Associated Press-Ipsos poll found widespread disagreement with the Bush administration over its proposed solution, and growing skepticism that the United States made the right decision in going to war in the first place.
CONT (http://tinyurl.com/yf2ass)


----------------------------------------------------------
Bush war plan draws fire on Capitol Hill
By JIM KUHNHENN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON -
President Bush's decision to send 21,500 more combat troops to Iraq drew heavy fire from both Democrats and some Republicans on Thursday despite a plea by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice for a "national imperative not to fail."

Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel (news, bio, voting record) of Nebraska told Rice the president's plan was "the most dangerous foreign policy blunder in this country since Vietnam, if it's carried out."
CONT (http://tinyurl.com/yj596c)


In speech in the House of Representatives, meanwhile, Rep. Ric Keller (news, bio, voting record), R-Fla. noted that he was breaking ranks with Bush after long supporting the president's war policy.

Sen. Bill Nelson (news, bio, voting record), D-Fla., noted his own past support for the administration on the war. "I cannot continue to support the administration's position," he said. "I have not been told the truth over and over again by administration witnesses, and the American people have not been told the truth."

And in a Senate speech, Majority Leader Harry Reid (news, bio, voting record), D-Nev., said that while Bush's plan would be carefully scrutinized, "In choosing to escalate the war, the president virtually stands alone."

"You're going to have to do a much better job" explaining the rationale for the war, "and so is the president," Sen. George Voinovich (news, bio, voting record), R-Ohio, told her. He said Bush could no longer count on his support.

[elsid13]

What piss me off the most, is if he had set more troops in immediately after the invasion and did more to secure the area before the was organized resistance this would be complete different environment. Instead of listen to the folks that had experience in Balkans or other peace keeping mission, the WH believe in the fantasy that everything would be peaches when Saddam went bye bye.

Once again a day late and dollar short.

[Spider]

You've got to be joking....dman

Nope , so when I tell you something , you know it is from no partisan hack , I am a democrat , but truth overrides party lines , well with most of us , there are some that will continue on bein treated like a mushroom , kept in the dark fed Bullshít and happy about it

[TailgateNut]

Nope , so when I tell you something , you know it is from no partisan hack , I am a democrat , but truth overrides party lines , well with most of us , there are some that will continue on bein treated like a mushroom , kept in the dark fed Bullshít and happy about it

"there are some that will continue on bein treated like a mushroom , kept in the dark fed Bullshít and happy about it"


That one deserves a bit of rep! The numbers of mushrooms have declined, but they do still exist.

[bendog]

I went home early yesterday, but not as early as I'd hoped so I didn't get a run in before the kid got home, and she didn't want to be alone ... so I sent her to her room to do her homework, turned on msnbc, which I very seldom do anymore though God I miss that Maria Buscoloni or whatver her name is who used to do stock market stuff, and cleaned house.

The panel included Dick Morris (chump except when it comes to defining what the middle wants; his problem is he thinks that passes for leadership, and any politician who governs away from polls, like Reagan, is a chump, which is why Morris is a chump) Patrick "mr angry" Buchanan and a couple of other guys.

The consensus was the "surge" was rejected by the Baker et al policy group as doomed to failure, and Gates was in that group, but it was seen as a possible mollification of the Iraqis if we decided to go "small," and downize the committment. But all-ah-mucky was really pissed when bushii first floated the idea. So, the net effect of bushii's speech is a military effort that most have concluded has little to no chance of working, plus the demand to all-ah-mucky that he reign in Sadr or let the US military take him on, which will really put the **** in the fan. The conclusion was the "plan" was politically driven by politicians not the military, and it's aim is to give bushii cover for pulling back.

Logically I think that's the only answer as to why bushii proposed this, now. I'd be willing to change my mind if the US army is directly tasked with isolating sadr city, and then going house to house to kill or arrest Sadr's milita.

[bendog]

Cheney, Wofowitz and Bush are sitting in the oval office one day, and in walks Powell, before he got fired.

Cheney says, "Colon, wolfowitz here wants to put a million muslims and one beautiful big breasted blond in the middle of sandland, and drop a couple of nuclear warheads on em. Whayyah Say?"

Colon, "why the beautiful big breasted blond?"

Wolfowitz, "See Mr. President, I told you not even Colon would give a crap about a million muslims."

[Spider]

too bad war didnt come with a reset button ............but no , everyone had to stay the course , dont change horses half way through the stream , Bush knows what he is doing ( Hilarious!)
all those Idiots that voted for him , need to look in the mirror and tell themselfs good job , and see if they believe it .............
and congress , Republicna president , republican congress did as much Damage as LBJ and his band of **** ups

[Traveler]

So, the prez is risking all these american lives in the hopes that Maliki will get his **** together? If he hasn't done it by now, what is Bush's rationale for believing he'll do it at all? Threats?

[Cito Pelon]

GWB I don't think understands responsibility to the USA. GWB, his Inner Circle and those that ride on their coattails are mostly interested in attaining and retaining power so they can line their own pockets, and the US populace are just pawns on the chessboard.

So "taking responsibility for mistakes" in Iraq is just something charming to say that will keep the heat off him for a little while.

I'd bet that the reasoning behind the whole "surge" was a political move to force the Democrats into a Bad Guy/un-American role again with an eye to the 2008 elections.

[pocahontas4me]

I am not talking aboutthe decision and policy. I am just talking about the packaging.

How would the packaging be if the media hadn't mis-reported many of the stories from the beginning to now?

I'm not saying everything has been a win win situation, but there are not as many failures as the people now believe, not be cause of the President but because of the liberal slant on anything to do with the office.

It's a shame and it will not be any better if there is a dem in office next term. It will just be the other side misreporting to prove their case.

Face it all, we are lost regardless of who is in the WH, good job or bad they will always be reported as bad.

[Spider]

How would the packaging be if the media hadn't mis-reported many of the stories from the beginning to now?

I'm not saying everything has been a win win situation, but there are not as many failures as the people now believe, not be cause of the President but because of the liberal slant on anything to do with the office.

It's a shame and it will not be any better if there is a dem in office next term. It will just be the other side misreporting to prove their case.

Face it all, we are lost regardless of who is in the WH, good job or bad they will always be reported as bad.

LOL . again the evil liberal Media ............( shakes head in disbelief) most everyone on the planet knows Iraq is a bowl of Chickenshít we never should have got involved ..period no ****ing excuses , no media bias , no right wing lunitic talking hair do will change that ........... you knowa person would figure you nut jobs would leave the Bias thing alone after Rush admitted Carrying water for turds that didnt deserve it ............ even when one of your own admits to bullshítting , you still come across with left wing Media bias ......... you people are beyond belief .............

[Garcia Bronco]

How would the packaging be if the media hadn't mis-reported many of the stories from the beginning to now?

I'm not saying everything has been a win win situation, but there are not as many failures as the people now believe, not be cause of the President but because of the liberal slant on anything to do with the office.

It's a shame and it will not be any better if there is a dem in office next term. It will just be the other side misreporting to prove their case.

Face it all, we are lost regardless of who is in the WH, good job or bad they will always be reported as bad.

I agree 100 percent

[Garcia Bronco]

LOL . again the evil liberal Media ............( shakes head in disbelief) most everyone on the planet knows Iraq is a bowl of Chickenshít we never should have got involved ..period no ****ing excuses , no media bias , no right wing lunitic talking hair do will change that ........... you knowa person would figure you nut jobs would leave the Bias thing alone after Rush admitted Carrying water for turds that didnt deserve it ............ even when one of your own admits to bullshítting , you still come across with left wing Media bias ......... you people are beyond belief .............

He is speaking more to the point of same **** different media. Ergo, it doesn't matter who is in office.

[Spider]

He is speaking more to the point of same **** different media. Ergo, it doesn't matter who is in office.

tell me what has the media lied about when it comes to iraq or what Bush has done outside of Dan Rather ?

[Spider]

I could say the Media was just out to get Clinton , but the media was right on alot of things . just cause I didnt like their message i didnt label em right wing loons , I think the right has been getting by with blaming the Media and not Bust for a long time ............. So the bothsides do it bullshít wont cut it anymore

[Spider]

it is time for the neo cons to admit they screwed this country , they put party and religion before the good of the country , for years they have been trying to make the Media the whipping boy , that just wont fly anymore ...........it is time they admitted that they were pretty stupid for voting for Bust and the rep congress

[Cito Pelon]

tell me what has the media lied about when it comes to iraq or what Bush has done outside of Dan Rather ?

I'm not going to get into a media-left/media-right exchange. I will point out that the media/whatever has done a piss-poor job of presenting facts.

Like the fact that if the Iraqi military is to stand on their own they will need tanks, planes, helicopters, artillery, mortars, heavy machine guns, millions of dollars of ammunition. Where will that come from? Who will finance that?

I never see anything about that in the media. It's amazing to me if the "left-wing" media existed to rag on the Bush administration, they would certainly be bringing that up as a bigtime obstacle to the US getting out of Iraq while leaving a functional, stand-alone Iraqi military in place.

[Cito Pelon]

it is time for the neo cons to admit they screwed this country , they put party and religion before the good of the country , for years they have been trying to make the Media the whipping boy , that just wont fly anymore ...........it is time they admitted that they were pretty stupid for voting for Bust and the rep congress

The Republican Party did that, aided and abetted by some of the voting populace that should have known better because of the obvious lack of character exhibited by most Republican candidates.

[bendog]

I don't buy the L-R media thing cause it's about money and selling ads and getting viewers.

Yes, the media at first didn't push the dubious underpinnings of the war. I don't necessarily agree on the Iraqis needing hardware. They will, but they don't need it for their security forces to stop the death squads. Nobody is asking them to take on Sadr's little army, as I think the marines are itching to have another go. Iran's not gonna invade them while the US army's there.

The one disturbing thing the media's done was in the election. Bushii wasn't allowed to talk live to reporters questions for the last month. That should have told me something, but the reporters should have been complaining. Being potus is more than giving sales pitches to selected groups of retirees.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You mean there are people who are still listening to the pinhead's speeches?

I feel sorry for those people.

[TailgateNut]

You mean there are people who are still listening to the pinhead's speeches?

I feel sorry for those people.

They used to ride the short bus to school, now they drive cars with "W 04" stickers!

[elsid13]

NPR? Little left leaning are we? Hmmmmm.....dman

Off topic, but Bush's folks are now in charge of NPR and PBS. Their stated goal was to make "more balance" and "aligned" with the American Public. Another thread

[Spider]

you know what gets me , when these right wing tards start yapping about Left wing Media bias , they forget the free ride the Media gave Bust, before Iraq , even the NYT was beating the war drums .........now that the Media exposed Bust for what he is , they are just liberal ......................
****ing Denial ............

[Garcia Bronco]

tell me what has the media lied about when it comes to iraq or what Bush has done outside of Dan Rather ?

I don't know...I stopped listening to them years ago when they were after Bill Clinton

[Spider]

I don't know...I stopped listening to them years ago when they were after Bill Clinton

see thats part of my point , I wanted the Media to be wrong ,But I didnt blow off everything Clinton did as a right wing Media bias .......... and you have to admit the right wingers have been using the media as a scape goat for Bust .......

[Dudeskey]

The only mainstream media guy that seems to be remotely close to being on point is old man Cafferty