What FA Do you Want?

[broncolife]

I havent seen a poll, so I thought I would make one.

[OrangeShadow]

i dont have ONE
Ken Hamlin or Michael Lewis for safety
Terell Sands at DT
Steinbach at O line

[ludo21]

Smith, Graham

Trade for Jevin Jones.

Draft BPA

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Graham and Charles Grant

[SpringStein]

I went with Steinbach and Graham. Immediately upgrades our OL.

[Rascal]

Graham and Charles Grant

Word.

Although I'll take Grant and K Hamlin or Deon Grant.

[Ratboy]

Ken Hamlin, Please!

[Ratboy]

Deuce McAllister isn't a young pup anymore, I wouldn't give much for him. I wouldnt mind Michael Turner though.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Deuce McAllister isn't a young pup anymore, I wouldn't give much for him. I wouldnt mind Michael Turner though.

Add Michael Turner into the Jared Allen "category" where anyone who says they want him, must acknowledge that he will cost at least a 1st round pick to acquire.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

and I think Graham is as much as a lock as you can have before free agency starts that he's a Bronco if hits the open market.

[Ratboy]

Add Michael Turner into the Jared Allen "category" where anyone who says they want him, must acknowledge that he will cost at least a 1st round pick to acquire.

Didn't know he was a RFA. Both Jared Allen and Turner would be good pickups, costly though.

[Ratboy]

Why spend the money on Daniel Graham? Tony Scheffler looks pretty damn good.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Why spend the money on Daniel Graham?

Because he's one of the best, if not the best, blocking TE in the league

[Clockwork Orange]

Because he's one of the best, if not the best, blocking TE in the league

And he can catch it a little bit, too. He'd be a great pickup.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

And he can catch it a little bit, too. He'd be a great pickup.

and supposedly he wants to come home

[Requiem]

You get Graham so Nate Jackson is finally out the job he didn't deserve for three years.

[-Slap-]

Justin Smith or Eric Steinbach.

Both would be okay.......:)

Might as well enjoy the speculation, because that's probably all we're going to get.

[Ratboy]

You get Graham so Nate Jackson is finally out the job he didn't deserve for three years.

Hey, Nate has earned his money! His Journals kick ass.

[Traveler]

Still pimping Deuce!

Graham, Terdell Sands, and Adalius Thomas in FA.

[Requiem]

No they are not they is terrible.

[Traveler]

You get Graham so Nate Jackson is finally out the job he didn't deserve for three years.

Alexander will become expendable too.

[-Slap-]

I wouldn't be against acquiring Graham, but I'm not rooting for it to happen. I think we can address the TE position on Day Two of the draft (Matt Trannon) or with a cheaper free agent.

[Requiem]

Big Guy and I have a man crush on Mr. Tranny.

[usedupbraids]

bring in Mike lewis i like to see us go after TJ Duckett too :)

[-Slap-]

Big Guy and I have a man crush on Mr. Tranny.

Hey, there's a cool nickname.

:clown:

[Barry Ramey]

I wouldn't be against acquiring Graham, but I'm not rooting for it to happen. I think we can address the TE position on Day Two of the draft (Matt Trannon) or with a cheaper free agent.

Graham would help the run game though. Trannon is an intriguing prospect in that he'd be moving from WR to TE, which is what he'll probably have to do to make the NFL, but I doubt he'll be much of a blocker at TE anytime soon, much less ready to play anytime soon either.

[usedupbraids]

i hate to bring it up but we need to bring in Nate Clemens after the death of D-WILLS i like to see FOX step up but Nate seems good in a broncos UNEEE

[-Slap-]

Graham would help the run game though. Trannon is an intriguing prospect in that he'd be moving from WR to TE, which is what he'll probably have to do to make the NFL, but I doubt he'll be much of a blocker at TE anytime soon, much less ready to play anytime soon either.

Do we really have the ability to pay big free agent money to a blocking tight end? It just seems like there are many other areas where we could better allocate the cap space.

[TheDave]

any defensive lineman not currently employed by the browns...

[Requiem]

Slap, I don't think Graham would be that expensive.

[Kaylore]

Slap, I don't think Graham would be that expensive.

Yeah, that's the thing. I don't think we let ourselves get into a bidding war for the guy, but Mustard will probably roll over to tackle so we need another behemoth tight end at the line who can hold his own as a receiver should we choose to release him into a pattern. I like Graham and think he could come at a decent price.

[Requiem]

What do you think would be a realistic contract?

Four years, ten million?

[WABronco]

and I think Graham is as much as a lock as you can have before free agency starts that he's a Bronco if hits the open market.

Really? If he wants to play here sure...but if he wants market value there's gonna be a good number of teams lining up.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

What do you think would be a realistic contract?

Four years, ten million?

Not with the new CBA. I'd bet at least $4M a year, maybe closer to $5M.

[WABronco]

Steinbach would be nice...some teams reportedly view him as a LT, G, and C. He's probably more of a luxury guy though...

[Requiem]

Not with the new CBA. I'd bet at least $4M a year, maybe closer to $5M.

I can't see that much for a tight end, but I guess with teams having so much to spend, the CBA and all that it's a possibility. You're the cap guy. . . I should trust your judgement.

[Dedhed]

I wouldn't be against acquiring Graham, but I'm not rooting for it to happen. I think we can address the TE position on Day Two of the draft (Matt Trannon) or with a cheaper free agent.

I agree. I think Mustard can develop into a better blocker than Graham, and can still catch a 2 yard pass.

I disagree with drafting a TE. I think we should reserve the draft entirely for DL and a S. Adrian Peterson is the only offensive skill player I will stomach this off-season. Other than that the Lines should get our full attention.

[Paladin]

Dedhead, sometimes you make sooooo much sense........

[yavoon]

I'm not sure I want anyone in FA, but I picked two.

I'm unconvinced justin smith would make anyone happy around here. he's never had a double digit sack season and his last 3 are 3,5,8. he comes here and does that he'll be ran out by this forum.

[Killericon]

Hey, I got a question; how will the Eagles justify keeping Jevon Kearse around?

[HEAV]

I'm not sure I want anyone in FA, but I picked two.

I'm unconvinced justin smith would make anyone happy around here. he's never had a double digit sack season and his last 3 are 3,5,8. he comes here and does that he'll be ran out by this forum.

While I like Justin's size and his ability to anchor the line has a run stopper. I also don't see him has a multiple (over 10) sack guy.

Also with many teams having cap space, and the lack of DE talent on the market, I fear his price will be inflated this year to a level that puts him in "Grade A" freeagent money.

But then this falls in the "Beggers can't be choosers" ranking.

[Rascal]

and I think Graham is as much as a lock as you can have before free agency starts that he's a Bronco if hits the open market.

You seriously think that?

If so that makes S Alexander expendable.

[Rascal]

Still pimping Deuce!

Graham, Terdell Sands, and Adalius Thomas in FA.

No way can we afford Thomas, and the cap hit from having to cut or trade Gold would be HUGE!!!

[Rascal]

Charles Grant IMO would be a better acquisition at DE then J Smith.

Plus I want Sands or Holliday at DT (with a high draft pick also going there)

Then pick up either K Hamlin or D Grant at FS and move Lynch back to SS.

Resign Carlisle, trade Hamilton and Tatum, maybe resign Graham. Pick a RB in the first two rounds.

Retire #27.

[yavoon]

While I like Justin's size and his ability to anchor the line has a run stopper. I also don't see him has a multiple (over 10) sack guy.

Also with many teams having cap space, and the lack of DE talent on the market, I fear his price will be inflated this year to a level that puts him in "Grade A" freeagent money.

But then this falls in the "Beggers can't be choosers" ranking.

the whole pt of free agency is to inflate ppl's value:). anyone who has good character, high motor, some skills will be worth a lot. ur gna need to take a risk to get a value, take a headcase, take an unknown, etc blah blah.

[Ratboy]

Justin Smith, Warren, Draft DT, and Elvis? Not bad.

[kappys]

In an ideal situation Adalius Thomas is the best of the players available. I would take him in a heartbeat, dump Gold, move DJ back to weakside.

More realistically I would prefer to spend money on Steinbach.

Get Graham if its a decent price, don't spend big money though. He would fit this system perfectly.

Terdell Sands - again if at a decent price

Vonnie Holliday - we have to pick up at least one nearly over the hill vet. I think Holliday is far better than any backups we have now, and still has the ability to stuff the run which is exactly what we need.

[wabbit]

It's still a bit early to speculate on Ricky Williams fate, but I guarantee you that Shanahan still has a serious interest.

Stay tuned to this one.

[kappys]

It's still a bit early to speculate on Ricky Williams fate, but I guarantee you that Shanahan still has a serious interest.

Stay tuned to this one.

For a 4th and a conditional pick that would be asbolutely worth it. Bring him in and Marcell Shipp, have Mike and Tatum Bell and but the rest of these jokers.

[SouthStndJunkie]

Eric Steinbach should be target #1.

[Natedogg]

Brian Griese.

[NFLBRONCO]

OL DL only in FA please

[youcandoit1687]

For a 4th and a conditional pick that would be asbolutely worth it. Bring him in and Marcell Shipp, have Mike and Tatum Bell and but the rest of these jokers.

huh? im all for keeping mike around for a long time. he is a very good back, while he may never be a franchise back, he is a great back to have as a change of pace reliever to whoever the other RB may be.

[-Slap-]

I'm not sure I want anyone in FA, but I picked two.

I'm unconvinced justin smith would make anyone happy around here. he's never had a double digit sack season and his last 3 are 3,5,8. he comes here and does that he'll be ran out by this forum.


His last three season sack totals are 7.5, 6 and 8. Paired up with extremely high tackle totals for a lineman 81, 65, 70.

You screwed the guy out of 5.5 sacks there, but who am I to quibble?

He's got prime triangle numbers and at 27, I think he's still young enough to expand his game. A hard worker like Aaron Kampman turned himself into a double digit sack man this year at the same age. I don't see why Smith can't do the same thing. He was a highly coveted player coming into the League (5th overall pick) and he's been a durable, hard-working player ever since.

[-Slap-]

It's still a bit early to speculate on Ricky Williams fate, but I guarantee you that Shanahan still has a serious interest.

Stay tuned to this one.

Hell, yeah. Come on home, Buffalo Soldier.

[yavoon]

His last three season sack totals are 7.5, 6 and 8. Paired up with extremely high tackle totals for a lineman 81, 65, 70.

You screwed the guy out of 5.5 sacks there, but who am I to quibble?

He's got prime triangle numbers and at 27, I think he's still young enough to expand his game. A hard worker like Aaron Kampman turned himself into a double digit sack man this year at the same age. I don't see why Smith can't do the same thing. He was a highly coveted player coming into the League (5th overall pick) and he's been a durable, hard-working player ever since.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=2552

I guess I wrote 5 when it was 6 somehow, but wutever. same theory applies, a sub 10 sack guy coming in here isn't gna satisfy anyone.

[youcandoit1687]

as for the TE argument, kaylore - why do you think we move mustard to OT? i think the coaching staff really loved having him as a dominant blocking TE. i think if we get graham, we get rid of alexander and jackson, leaving us with graham, mustard, scheffler, and leach(unless kuper starts snapping which is doubtful). four spots for TE seems kinda silly but its what we have been doing for a while. i guess i might have made an argument for giving mustard an OL number and using him as a 6th OL.

[-Slap-]

18 players had 10 or more sacks this year. Roughly half of one multi-sack pass rusher per teams there are in the NFL. Most of those guys are not on the free agent or trade market this summer.

[chaz]

Brian Griese.

good point...dont forget about our backup qb situation

[want2bAbronco2]

(grham, smith)
would also like Turner, Michael Lewis, DT from Raiders. and Lance Briggs or Thomas from ravens.

Then trade Ian, Foster, Tatum, and Jake.

[-Slap-]

Hell, we could sign Justin Smith and Adalius Thomas, then draft the best available DT, and our front seven would transform from finesse to ferocious in one fell swoop.

[Natedogg]

good point...dont forget about our backup qb situation

That was tongue in cheek.

[usedupbraids]

good point...dont forget about our backup qb situation

:thumbsup:

[elsid13]

I am more worried about how the rush defense failed then pass rushing. It easier for to get the QB if you're in third & long vs third and short

So I like Justin Smith more for his rush defense then sacks skills. And wouldn't mind Cory Redding from Detroit that can play both DT and DE. Those two plus rookie DT, moves us from light in butt DL to one that more physical.

Ideal line up - Smith, Redding, Warren, EE - early downs
Pass rushing Lang, EE, Redding, Elvis

[ukbroncosfan]

Justin Griffith.

I know it's not a sexy move, but he's been compared to former outstanding Broncos fullback Howard Griffith by Alex Gibbs.

Griffith has been playing at a pro bowl level since Gibbs arrived in Atlanta and I think he will become the highest paid FB in the NFL.

He would upgrade our run game. He can also catch the ball out of the backfield and play RB in a pinch. He is a perfect fit for the Broncos.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Big Guy and I have a man crush on Mr. Tranny.

Speak for yourself ;D I just like him as a football prospect.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Since I don't think Broncs can realistically get into a bidding war for an above average DL with all of the cap space everyone else has, I stand firm on Graham (replaced both Alexander and Jackson), Best safety available and backup QB. Any money left over does to depth on DL.

[ukbroncosfan]

My big splash in FA would be Simeon Rice. IMHO this is a low risk high reward move. The Bucs want to get younger on defense, the Broncos want to win now. Warren Sapp and John Lynch have played well since they were dumped by the Bucs.

[elsid13]

Justin Griffith.

I know it's not a sexy move, but he's been compared to former outstanding Broncos fullback Howard Griffith by Alex Gibbs.

Griffith has been playing at a pro bowl level since Gibbs arrived in Atlanta and I think he will become the highest paid FB in the NFL.

He would upgrade our run game. He can also catch the ball out of the backfield and play RB in a pinch. He is a perfect fit for the Broncos.

I really like that move, BUT since Dinger likes to run 3 WR sets something like 65% to 70% of the time, do you invest that money into a FB???

[-Slap-]

I am more worried about how the rush defense failed then pass rushing. It easier for to get the QB if you're in third & long vs third and short

So I like Justin Smith more for his rush defense then sacks skills. And wouldn't mind Cory Redding from Detroit that can play both DT and DE. Those two plus rookie DT, moves us from light in butt DL to one that more physical.

Ideal line up - Smith, Redding, Warren, EE - early downs
Pass rushing Lang, EE, Redding, Elvis

I like that plan, but Smith wouldn't come out on rush downs. Not with the money we would be paying him. Mainly, the guy brings it every down and that's the attitude we need around here more than anything.

[elsid13]

I like that plan, but Smith wouldn't come out on rush downs. Not with the money we would be paying him. Mainly, the guy brings it every down and that's the attitude we need around here more than anything.

I figure that with rotation that entire DL would be fresher later in the season. Since two things killed us this year, the loss of physical presence on the line and fact it wore down toward the end of the season.

[Ratboy]

Justin Griffith.

I know it's not a sexy move, but he's been compared to former outstanding Broncos fullback Howard Griffith by Alex Gibbs.

Griffith has been playing at a pro bowl level since Gibbs arrived in Atlanta and I think he will become the highest paid FB in the NFL.

He would upgrade our run game. He can also catch the ball out of the backfield and play RB in a pinch. He is a perfect fit for the Broncos.


Atlanta isn't letting him leave.

[ukbroncosfan]

I really like that move, BUT since Dinger likes to run 3 WR sets something like 65% to 70% of the time, do you invest that money into a FB???

It would be a luxury move. FB is a long way down the Broncos list of needs, but if there was no salary cap i would make this move. Griffith played a big part in helping the Falcons lead the league in rushing and would upgrade the Broncos run and passing game.

[ukbroncosfan]

Atlanta isn't letting him leave.

As far as I know the Falcons have not resigned him or Patrick Kerney. They can only tag one player.

[usedupbraids]

lets pick up T.O whoooooooooooo

[BroncoBuff]

Nick Ferguson and Sam Brandon out for the season ...

John Lynch 15 years in with half-dead legs ...

... and I'm just the FIFTH PERSON to say Deon Grant?!

.

[69bronco]

deon grant would be awsome.

Michael Turner would be nice too

[elsid13]

Nick Ferguson and Sam Brandon out for the season ...

John Lynch 15 years in with half-dead legs ...

... and I'm just the FIFTH PERSON to say Deon Grant?!

.


Because Deon Grant is not that good. Especial when Denver has the opportunity for a kid like Nelson or Larndy in the first round of the draft. Or Meriweather, Johnson, Rouse latter on

[BroncoBuff]

Because Deon Grant is not that good.

Interesting you say that, but the numbers show different.

Starting from the premise that we miss Kenoy, and as Shanny said, we miss him because he was playing at a Pro Bowl level. Now, with that in mind. compare Grant and Kenoy:

Same age, same position, same size - but despite playing fewer games, Grant has about double the INT's and passes defensed as Kennedy:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9409/deongrantcn4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

We have the best defensive back in the world, but our pass defense STILL SUCKS! And that's not ALL because of pass-rush deficiencies. We need a top-tier safety. Lynch has a year left (maybe), Ferguson and Brandon are coming off surgery, and #4 Hamza Abdullah looks lost (and small) out there, and we tried Cox and Foxworth at SS to poor results. As far as drafting safeties, I hear you .... but it's pretty dicey. Last year, after top-10 pick Michael Huff, Darnell Bing and Ko Simpson were projected as 1st and 2nd rounders. Well, they went in the 2nd (3rd?) and 4th round. Safeties are bad gambles in the draft in general.

What I'm talking about is a VETERAN safety with a NOSE FOR THE BALL. I think Grant fits the bill plenty. Rookies are okay, but we're not rebuilding right now. Huff was a first-rounder, but Grant outplayed him this past season, so even if we could get a Michael Huff type in the draft (which we can't) he still would not make the impact we need for a 12-win season and Super Bowl run.

[-Slap-]

I would be happy with Grant. I mentioned him at the end of this lengthy post about a month ago.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1390142&postcount=7

I notice some people talking about Justin Griffith.

Another excellent free agent fullback prospect would be the Raven's Ovie Mughelli (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/396044). He's built like a monster at 6'1", 255 and he's a very physical run blocker and special teams presence.

I figure there's about a one in ten billion chance we'll even consider him a nanosecond.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/photo/2005-10/19772763.jpg
Ovie Mughelli tries to flick a piece of dust off Ty Law's eyelash.

[WABronco]

We have the best defensive back in the world, but our pass defense STILL SUCKS! And that's not ALL because of pass-rush deficiencies. We need a top-tier safety. Lynch has a year left (maybe), Ferguson and Brandon are coming off surgery, and #4 Hamza Abdullah looks lost (and small) out there, and we tried Cox and Foxworth at SS to poor results. As far as drafting safeties, I hear you .... but it's pretty dicey. Last year, after top-10 pick Michael Huff, Darnell Bing and Ko Simpson were projected as 1st and 2nd rounders. Well, they went in the 2nd (3rd?) and 4th round. Safeties are bad gambles in the draft in general.

Hamza looks small? He's probably the biggest safety we've got. Besides, he's more of a SS anyways.

You can get a solid safety prospect anywhere in the draft. Anthony Smith went in the 3rd. Ko Simpson went in the 4th. Dawan Landry went in the 5th. Chris Harris went in the 6th (two years ago). Gerald Sensabaugh went in the 5th (he'll probably replace Grant). OJ Atogwe went in the 3rd ('05). Kerry Rhodes fell to the 4th ('05). All of those players are current starters, and Rhodes and Atogwe are standouts.

You just have to have patience. We have two soild young prospects already in-house, and one young vet who's a premier coverage safety in this league.

What I'm talking about is a VETERAN safety with a NOSE FOR THE BALL. I think Grant fits the bill plenty. Rookies are okay, but we're not rebuilding right now. Huff was a first-rounder, but Grant outplayed him this past season, so even if we could get a Michael Huff type in the draft (which we can't) he still would not make the impact we need for a 12-win season and Super Bowl run.

Grant isn't some spectacular playmaker, either. He's an athletic vet who's primarily a coverage safety (he's a liability against the run).

I mean, he's a nice vet, but what's the point in spending on a guy who's a minimal upgrade at best?

[lookin' glass]

I've read that Oakland is working very hard to retain Sands. If Ryan, their DC, takes over as head coach, which I think very very likely, I think Sands will stay there. I'd like the Broncs to pick him up but they'd have to find a way to use him properly. Smith would be great also, then Denver could pick up a great back in the draft.
I think the coaching - playcalling and actual player training - was really lacking this year.

[Rascal]

Hell, we could sign Justin Smith and Adalius Thomas, then draft the best available DT, and our front seven would transform from finesse to ferocious in one fell swoop.

No way can we afford Thomas. We will be spending a huge amount of money on our LB's.

[-Slap-]

pfft

[kappys]

[QUOTE=lookin' glass;1433020]I've read that Oakland is working very hard to retain Sands. If Ryan, their DC, takes over as head coach, which I think very very likely, I think Sands will stay there. I'd like the Broncs to pick him up but they'd have to find a way to use him properly. Smith would be great also, then Denver could pick up a great back in the draft.
I think the coaching - playcalling and actual player training - was really lacking this year.[/QUOTE

I would guess it would depend on the money. I would find it hard to believe someone would choose Oakland over Denver at this point unless there is a significant money difference.

[Clockwork Orange]

Adalius Thomas would be a great pickup. Say goodbye to Gold and bring in a monster who can actually get after the QB when called upon. Thomas has registered 20 sacks over the last two seasons. He also intercepted a pass this season, which is one more than all of the Broncos LB's combined.

[elsid13]

Interesting you say that, but the numbers show different.

Starting from the premise that we miss Kenoy, and as Shanny said, we miss him because he was playing at a Pro Bowl level. Now, with that in mind. compare Grant and Kenoy:

Same age, same position, same size - but despite playing fewer games, Grant has about double the INT's and passes defensed as Kennedy:

[/URL]

We have the best defensive back in the world, but our pass defense STILL SUCKS! And that's not ALL because of pass-rush deficiencies. We need a top-tier safety. Lynch has a year left (maybe), Ferguson and Brandon are coming off surgery, and #4 Hamza Abdullah looks lost (and small) out there, and we tried Cox and Foxworth at SS to poor results. As far as drafting safeties, I hear you .... but it's pretty dicey. Last year, after top-10 pick Michael Huff, Darnell Bing and Ko Simpson were projected as 1st and 2nd rounders. Well, they went in the 2nd (3rd?) and 4th round. Safeties are bad gambles in the draft in general.

What I'm talking about is a VETERAN safety with a NOSE FOR THE BALL. I think Grant fits the bill plenty. Rookies are okay, but we're not rebuilding right now. Huff was a first-rounder, but Grant outplayed him this past season, so even if we could get a Michael Huff type in the draft (which we can't) he still would not make the impact we need for a 12-win season and Super Bowl run.

Notice that Shanahan didn't keep KK around either??? And if Shanahan really thought he was key to the defense he would have found a way to keep him.

Grant an average pro player and doesn't have "a nose for the ball", and no better Brandon. Who should be fine. In fact did you even watch any Jax's games??? I saw a couple a don't remember him at all.

And Shanahan throw crap out about a lot of players that isn't true.

[Clockwork Orange]

Notice that Shanahan didn't keep KK around either??? And if Shanahan really thought he was key to the defense he would have found a way to keep him.

Grant an average pro player and doesn't have "a nose for the ball", and no better Brandon that will be coming back from injury. In fact did you even watch any Jax's games??? I saw a couple a don't remember him at all.

Brandon doesn't have a nose for the ball. What he does have is a knack for doing a good job in coverage against opposing TE's. He's a solid backup.

[elsid13]

Brandon doesn't have a nose for the ball. What he does have is a knack for doing a good job in coverage against opposing TE's. He's a solid backup.

I was refering to Grant. I much rather draft a rookie and keep the players we have then sign a guy that isn't anything special.

[azbroncfan]

I personally wouldn't mind Freeney but too many teams will be after him if he even gets to free agency and will be highest paid Defensive player in football. He was a monster and crushed KC almost by himself.

[-Slap-]

I personally wouldn't mind Freeney but too many teams will be after him if he even gets to free agency and will be highest paid Defensive player in football. He was a monster and crushed KC almost by himself.

I didn't see him do much until the fourth quarter when they were really able to pin their ears back.

[usedupbraids]

i wanted ty law last year in i still want him this year.........

[usedupbraids]

i wanted ty law last year in i still want him this year.........

no HOMO :approve:

[chaz]

That was tongue in cheek.

cool.

[azbroncfan]

I didn't see him do much until the fourth quarter when they were really able to pin their ears back.

Did you watch the game? He sacked forced a fumble, stuffed LJ couple times, forced other sacks when green stepped up in the FIRST half. That being said I would like him in Denver but not at the price he will get. I don't think Colts let him go personally.

[Traveler]

Did you watch the game? He sacked forced a fumble, stuffed LJ couple times, forced other sacks when green stepped up in the FIRST half. That being said I would like him in Denver but not at the price he will get. I don't think Colts let him go personally.

They won't! He'll get franchised and won't go anywhere.

[Rascal]

So what would Gold's cap hit be if we traded/cut him? Thomas will be one of the highest paid FA's this year.

[BroncoInferno]

So what would Gold's cap hit be if we traded/cut him? Thomas will be one of the highest paid FA's this year.

I love how everyone wants to get rid of Gold even though he's clearly been a better football player than DJ these last two seasons (cue those pitiful 'we don't use him properly' excuses). Plus, we can probably trade DJ since he's still playing under his rookie contract, which will have an easier to move base salary. Sign Thomas, trade DJ, keep Gold.

[Clockwork Orange]

Not sure. Gold signed a 5 year deal worth $25 million with a signing bonus of $8 million. $8 million over 5 years is a $1.6 million per season cap charge, two years of which are already done, which leaves $4.8 million yet to hit the cap. I don't know what his base salary for this year is scheduled to be, so I'm not sure what kind of impact cutting him would have on the cap.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

2007 2300000.00
2008 2750000.00
2009 3400000.00
2010 4590000.00

[-Slap-]

Did you watch the game? He sacked forced a fumble, stuffed LJ couple times, forced other sacks when green stepped up in the FIRST half. That being said I would like him in Denver but not at the price he will get. I don't think Colts let him go personally.

I did watch the game. I saw Freeney turn it on late, which is an improvement, because most weeks this year he didn't turn it on at all.

[Clockwork Orange]

So $2.3 million in base salary plus $1.6 million in signing bonus for a total cap charge of $3.9 million next year. Cutting him before June 1st would accelerate the remaining $4.8 million of his signing bonus, so it looks like it would cost the Broncos an extra $900,000 against the cap to do so.

[-Slap-]

I love how everyone wants to get rid of Gold even though he's clearly been a better football player than DJ these last two seasons (cue those pitiful 'we don't use him properly' excuses). Plus, we can probably trade DJ since he's still playing under his rookie contract, which will have an easier to move base salary. Sign Thomas, trade DJ, keep Gold.

Yeah, they're both so great. Especially, if you like playing four safeties at once.

[-Slap-]

Not sure. Gold signed a 5 year deal worth $25 million with a signing bonus of $8 million. $8 million over 5 years is a $1.6 million per season cap charge, two years of which are already done, which leaves $4.8 million yet to hit the cap. I don't know what his base salary for this year is scheduled to be, so I'm not sure what kind of impact cutting him would have on the cap.

Oh lord, what a frigging joke.

Keep eating that Creatin, kids. Functional football strength doesn't mean jack****.

[BroncoInferno]

So $2.3 million in base salary plus $1.6 million in signing bonus for a total cap charge of $3.9 million next year. Cutting him before June 1st would accelerate the remaining $4.8 million of his signing bonus, so it looks like it would cost the Broncos an extra $900,000 against the cap to do so.

They aren't going to cut Gold.

[Clockwork Orange]

They aren't going to cut Gold.

Does that mean we're not allowed to discuss the possibility and the cap ramifications of doing so?

We're not going to sign Adalius Thomas either, but that's not stopping us from discussing it.

[BroncoInferno]

Does that mean we're not allowed to discuss the possibility and the cap ramifications of doing so?

We're not going to sign Adalius Thomas either, but that's not stopping us from discussing it.

Doesn't stop any discussion, nor was it intended to; I'm just throwing in a little reality.

And, no, we probably won't get Thomas, just like we almost never aquire any of the names we toss around come the offseason. It's still fun to discuss for some reason, though, ain't it?

[Clockwork Orange]

Doesn't stop any discussion, nor was it intended to; I'm just throwing in a little reality.

And, no, we probably won't get Thomas, just like we almost never aquire any of the names we toss around come the offseason. It's still fun to discuss for some reason, though, ain't it?

Reality is that we need to get bigger LB's who can blitz effectively when called upon. Gold doesn't fit that bill, so his name belongs in this discussion. Doesn't mean it'll happen, just means that it's worth consideration.

It's fun to talk about any big time player who can help the team coming to Denver. Doesn't mean it'll happen, but it's always nice to dream.

[BroncoInferno]

Reality is that we need to get bigger LB's who can blitz effectively when called upon. Gold doesn't fit that bill, so his name belongs in this discussion. Doesn't mean it'll happen, just means that it's worth consideration.

It's fun to talk about any big time player who can help the team coming to Denver. Doesn't mean it'll happen, but it's always nice to dream.

The small linebacker system can work if you have the horses up front to occupy blockers. I think it's more feasible and realistic to try and make DL improvements rather than blow up our LB unit.

[-Slap-]

They don't make any plays.

No sacks, no picks, no fumble recoveries or forced fumbles. Blaming the defensive line for their finesse based impotence is called living in denial.

[BroncoInferno]

They don't make any plays.

No sacks, no picks, no fumble recoveries or forced fumbles. Blaming the defensive line for their finesse based impotence is called living in denial.

What about shutting down TEs and TFL? Are those types of plays not worth anything?

[-Slap-]

What about shutting down TEs and TFL? Are those types of plays not worth anything?

Give me a break, alright?

We could play a nickel base and take away every tight end in the League, which is, essentially what we're doing.

These guys are so great in coverage, but they never intercept a freaking pass. Never.

2006 - ZERO picks for Wilson/Gold/Williams.

2005 - ZERO picks for Wilson/Gold/Williams.

Oh, but they're terrorizing tight ends, like there's even one team in the NFL that features the tight end as the focal point of their offense.

[BroncoInferno]

Give me a break, alright?

We could play a nickel base and take away every tight end in the League, which is, essentially what we're doing.

These guys are so great in coverage, but they never intercept a freaking pass. Never.

2006 - ZERO picks for Wilson/Gold/Williams.

2005 - ZERO picks for Wilson/Gold/Williams.

Oh, but they're terrorizing tight ends, like there's even one team in the NFL that features the tight end as the focal point of their offense.

Intercepting a pass does not make a player good or bad in coverage. Coverage is about preventing a reception, which our LBs do a great job at. If you want to complain about their ball skills, fine. They play LB and not TE for a reason. And we play two teams twice a season who have TEs that are the focal point of their passing game: San Diego and Kansas City.

[-Slap-]

Weak as hell at the point of attack.

Worthless as blitzers. Two sacks all year. Worthless to even line up on the edge to give the QB second thoughts.

We will always have a soft, finesse defense that fades in the second half of games and fades in the second half of the season, until we get some roughnecks in the LB crew.

This **** is broken and most of you are deep in denial.

Blow it the **** up. Give me a 3-4. Anything, just get these no-play midgetbackers off the goddamn field.

[-Slap-]

Intercepting a pass does not make a player good or bad in coverage. Coverage is about preventing a reception, which our LBs do a great job at. If you want to complain about their ball skills, fine. They play LB and not TE for a reason. And we play two teams twice a season who have TEs that are the focal point of their passing game: San Diego and Kansas City.

Are you serious?

Ever heard of LaDanian Tomlinson and Larry Johnson?

Those guys are the focal point of those offenses and they made our LBs look like crap this year.

[BroncoInferno]

Are you serious?

Ever heard of LaDanian Tomlinson and Larry Johnson?

I said the focal point of their PASSING game. We do still have to try and stop the pass, don't we?

[-Slap-]

I said the focal point of their PASSING game. We do still have to try and stop the pass, don't we?

That's fine. Keep making excuses for these guys.

No big plays.

Missed tackles galore in the second half of the season.

No physical presence at all at the POA.

The only big time TE they totally shut down this year was Gonzo in Week 2, the first week with Huard in the lineup. Gates burned us badly in the second matchup. Dallas Clark killed us against Indy.

These guys simply do not earn their big paychecks. They're one dimensional, they're soft and none of them ever makes a big play or flips the field for the offense.

Pull the plug on this failure.

[yavoon]

The small linebacker system can work if you have the horses up front to occupy blockers. I think it's more feasible and realistic to try and make DL improvements rather than blow up our LB unit.

but if u have the blocker takers where does ur passrush come from?

[BroncoInferno]

but if u have the blocker takers where does ur passrush come from?

Big, nasty DTs, a little more quickness on the edges at DE for pass rushing. Baltimore and Tampa Bay of the early '00s and Dallas of the mid-90s is the prototype.

[MO<1>]

How about TO?

[-Slap-]

Big, nasty DTs, a little more quickness on the edges at DE for pass rushing. Baltimore and Tampa Bay of the early '00s and Dallas of the mid-90s is the prototype.

Tampa managed to draft HOFers Warren Sapp and Derrick Brooks in the same year and that's why their midgetbacker scheme worked.

Dallas had a ridiculously deep corps of DL from stockpiled draft picks, including picks from a 1-15 finish, the Hershel Walker motherlode and a high number one courtesy of New Orleans. In other words, events that will never be duplicated.

Baltimore LBs are frigging huge, so I have no idea what the hell they're even doing here.

So, basically, two teams in the last 15 years have made that scheme work. 15 years X 32 teams and two teams have made it work.

Who can argue with that success percentage?

[BroncoBuff]

So $2.3 million in base salary plus $1.6 million in signing bonus for a total cap charge of $3.9 million next year. Cutting him before June 1st would accelerate the remaining $4.8 million of his signing bonus, so it looks like it would cost the Broncos an extra $900,000 against the cap to do so.

CO, it takes cajones to talk about cutting Gold, but like Slap, I'm right there with you. He never makes plays - ever. Last season he batted down a Mark Brunell pass on 4th down to seal a win over the Skins at Invesco, but that was like TWENTY-FIVE GAMES AGO!

If Adelius Thomas is ANY kind of possibility at ALL, pull the plug on Gold now! DJ Williams too to save cap room ... put Wesbter at Sam. Although I think Slap said he took "the worst tackiling angles" he'd ever seen. Regardless, Adelius could rack up 10+ sacks ... that kind of production changes games.

[BroncoInferno]

Tampa managed to draft HOFers Warren Sapp and Derrick Brooks in the same year and that's why their midgetbacker scheme worked.

Dallas had a ridiculously deep corps of DL from stockpiled draft picks, including picks from a 1-15 finish, the Hershel Walker motherlode and a high number one courtesy of New Orleans. In other words, events that will never be duplicated.

Baltimore LBs are frigging huge, so I have no idea what the hell they're even doing here.

So, basically, two teams in the last 15 years have made that scheme work. 15 years X 32 teams and two teams have made it work.

Who can argue with that success percentage?

It worked for the Broncos of '97-'98 as well. I know revisionists like Taco want to pretend that those defense were no good, but we don't win those championships without their outstanding playoff efforts.

[BroncoBuff]

My Joke on this topic:

Scientists in Denver this year, working in the field of metallurgy, have announced a breakthrough in research. For the first time in history, they've managed to make Gold invisible.

ROFL! LOL :~ohyah!:

[BroncoInferno]

CO, it takes cajones to talk about cutting Gold, but like Slap, I'm right there with you. He never makes plays - ever.

That is pure crap. I'll agree that our LB unit did not play as well as I'd like this season, but Gold was an absolute mad man last year and played extremely well for us. Even Slappy reluctantly gave him some begrudged props last season.

[-Slap-]

It worked for the Broncos of '97-'98 as well. I know revisionists like Taco want to pretend that those defense were no good, but we don't win those championships without their outstanding playoff efforts.

Pre-injury (and substance abuse) John Mobley was a special player and twice the big play backer Gold or Williams could ever be.

Are you seriously suggesting either of the current OLBs were the physical presence Romo was at that point of his career?

Why are you changing the topic anyway?

The defenses on those teams were better than average, but we had six Hall of Famers or near Hall of Famers on offense.

Do you really believe our back-to-back Rings weren't primarily because of Elway, TD, Sharpe, Zimmerman, RSmith, Nalen, EMac, Griffith, Stinky?

Get serious. Don't start in with this whole Taco deflection thing with me, either. You're twice as intelligent as the fools around here who lean on that crutch.

[yavoon]

Big, nasty DTs, a little more quickness on the edges at DE for pass rushing. Baltimore and Tampa Bay of the early '00s and Dallas of the mid-90s is the prototype.

so u need a bunch of pro bowl lineman just to justify the lil scatty lb's? seems to me to be the wrong way around.

[-Slap-]

That is pure crap. I'll agree that our LB unit did not play as well as I'd like this season, but Gold was an absolute mad man last year and played extremely well for us. Even Slappy reluctantly gave him some begrudged props last season.

He exceeded my expectations last year in some ways. This year he pretty much disappeared after week six.

[-Slap-]

so u need a bunch of pro bowl lineman just to justify the lil scatty lb's? seems to me to be the wrong way around.

Isn't that just bass ackwards madness?

[yavoon]

Isn't that just bass ackwards madness?

also lest we forget that our lb's are not cheap. its not like we signed a bunch of quick small guys after blowing our load on our pair of all pro de's and our pro bowl dt or something.

[BroncoInferno]

Pre-injury (and substance abuse) John Mobley was a special player and twice the big play backer Gold or Williams could ever be.

Are you seriously suggesting either of the current OLBs were the physical presence Romo was at that point of his career?

Why are you changing the topic anyway?

The defenses on those teams were better than average, but we had six Hall of Famers or near Hall of Famers on offense.

Do you really believe our back-to-back Rings weren't primarily because of Elway, TD, Sharpe, Zimmerman, RSmith, Nalen, EMac, Griffith, Stinky?

Get serious. Don't start in with this whole Taco deflection thing with me, either. You're twice as intelligent as the fools around here who lean on that crutch.

My point is that the defensive philosophy is the same now as it was then. A premium put on speed at LB at the expense of size. And, sure, the offense was the star of those teams, but what about some of those playoff games where Elway and company couldn't get it going? 14-10 at Arrowhead. 21-10 against the Jets. Hell, they were flat out dominant the entire '98 playoffs.

[BroncoInferno]

so u need a bunch of pro bowl lineman just to justify the lil scatty lb's? seems to me to be the wrong way around.

In either philosophy you need Pro Bowl type players somewhere.

[BroncoBuff]

I refuse to discuss the idea that out outside linebackers are good enough to get us to the SB ... ZERO sacks, ZERO ints.

'nuff said.

Time to make some changes, and Adalius Thomas sounds pretty good to me.

[yavoon]

In either philosophy you need Pro Bowl type players somewhere.

and what are our linebackers chop liver? our linebackers are SUPPOSE to be the pro bowlers and ur saying we need pro bowl lineman just to make them look good!

what would happen if we resigned DJ kept al wilson and kept gold then added at market value DE's who could get 10+ sacks and play the run and atleast one monster DT.

our entire cap would be in our front 7. thats the screwed up thing, these linebackers need lineman to cover for their ass in the run game so they look good flying to the ball. then they need those same lineman to rush the passer well because they can't blitz.

[-Slap-]

My point is that the defensive philosophy is the same now as it was then. A premium put on speed at LB at the expense of size. And, sure, the offense was the star of those teams, but what about some of those playoff games where Elway and company couldn't get it going? 14-10 at Arrowhead. 21-10 against the Jets. Hell, they were flat out dominant the entire '98 playoffs.

Romo's premium was not speed, my friend. It was scaring the **** out of people. Also, his humiliation at the feet and headfakes of Mark Brunell notwithstanding, Romo was a feared blitzer and big play man. In 97, he had two sacks and an interception. In 98, he had 7.5 sacks and two interceptions.

I take great pride in the defensive performance of the 98 squad. We caught three fairly mundane offenses in the post season, which didn't hurt, but the run defense in particular was awesome.

So, what is the point here anyway, BI?

You and I are talking about the linebackers, and all of a sudden you're endeavoring to explain to me that defense is important. I appreciate that, but my Dad went over that fine point of the game with me back in 1972.

[-Slap-]

and what are our linebackers chop liver? our linebackers are SUPPOSE to be the pro bowlers and ur saying we need pro bowl lineman just to make them look good!

what would happen if we resigned DJ kept al wilson and kept gold then added at market value DE's who could get 10+ sacks and play the run and atleast one monster DT.

our entire cap would be in our front 7. thats the screwed up thing, these linebackers need lineman to cover for their ass in the run game so they look good flying to the ball. then they need those same lineman to rush the passer well because they can't blitz.

Bingo.

The so-called strength of the defense needs someone else to make them look good. Suppose we do build this fantastic defensive line that is able to simultaneously rush the QB, shut down the running game and occupy blockers for the midgetbacker dance party. Suppose we actually pull it off. What happens if a couple of those linemen get injured? We're right back to the same BS excuses from the BLBIF*.



*Best Linebackers in Football

[BroncoInferno]

Romo's premium was not speed, my friend. It was scaring the **** out of people. Also, his humiliation at the feet and headfakes of Mark Brunell notwithstanding, Romo was a feared blitzer and big play man. In 97, he had two sacks and an interception. In 98, he had 7.5 sacks and two interceptions.

I wouldn't say the '97 stats are any more eye-popping than anything we've seen from Wilson or Gold, but I get your point. Nevertheless, Romo was about 235 at best, so he wasn't a big hoss by any stretch.

I take great pride in the defensive performance of the 98 squad. We caught three fairly mundane offenses in the post season, which didn't hurt, but the run defense in particular was awesome.

So, what is the point here anyway, BI?

The point is that Shanny favored the same defensive philosophy then that he does now. The philosophy can work. I think our linebackers are good enough to get it done. I'm not sure that our DL as a whole fits what we need in this type of scheme, and I'm not convinced Coyer is the right guy to call the shots. Basically, I think there are much more pressing needs on defense than our LB crew, and I think those needs start up front.

[BroncoInferno]

yavoon, how do you think the money is spread out in a 3-4? Do you think the LBs get loads of cash and the DL are an afterthought? NE has guys like Seymour, Wilfork and Warren on there DL, and those guys are no chumps and don't come cheap. That's in addition to their LBs like Bruschi and Colvin. In either a 3-4 or 4-3 you have to invest a lot in your front seven. That's where you win games.

[broncolife]

Speaking of our super bowl defense, I happend to see Ray Crockett on the tv Show Identity

[yavoon]

yavoon, how do you think the money is spread out in a 3-4? Do you think the LBs get loads of cash and the DL are an afterthought? NE has guys like Seymour, Wilfork and Warren on there DL, and those guys are no chumps and don't come cheap. That's in addition to their LBs like Bruschi and Colvin. In either a 3-4 or 4-3 you have to invest a lot in your front seven. That's where you win games.

first ur talking about the front 7 on the best patriots defense ever. so its probably a lil out there as an example. and second the patriots aren't gna keep all those players, I believe all 3 DL are on their rookie contracts and all 3 are first round picks.

also bruschi and vrabel I believe are cheap, but the patriots still wont keep those DL.

I like the "thats where u win games" thing, I'll add it to the "U have to run the ball" and "U need a good qb" and "offensive line" oh I barely even keep track of all the cliche's. I feel bad for safeties though, I dont think they're in any of em.

[BroncoInferno]

first ur talking about the front 7 on the best patriots defense ever. so its probably a lil out there as an example. and second the patriots aren't gna keep all those players, I believe all 3 DL are on their rookie contracts and all 3 are first round picks.

also bruschi and vrabel I believe are cheap, but the patriots still wont keep those DL.

I like the "thats where u win games" thing, I'll add it to the "U have to run the ball" and "U need a good qb" and "offensive line" oh I barely even keep track of all the cliche's. I feel bad for safeties though, I dont think they're in any of em.

Give me an example of a great D that doesn't have quality players on both levels? And Seymour is paid a load, but you're right about the other two being on rookie deals. I guess the fact that NE thought enough of their DL to use multiple first round picks on the area totally escapes you. If they lose those very good players without replacements of comparable quality, you're crazy if you don't think there will be a drop off.

[yavoon]

Give me an example of a great D that doesn't have quality players on both levels? And Seymour is paid a load, but you're right about the other two being on rookie deals. I guess the fact that NE thought enough of their DL to use multiple first round picks on the area totally escapes you. If they lose those very good players without replacements of comparable quality, you're crazy if you don't think there will be a drop off.

there'll be a dropoff, but only in so much as their DL are now worse, not by any geometric factor because now their LB's are exposed weenies. and therein lies the difference, they want good DL because it makes their defense good, we NEED good two way DL(and one more of em cause we're in a 4-3) just to make our LB's justified.

its not that chasing good DL is a bad thing, its that having ur DL monetarily and schematically hamstrung by ur weenie LB's is a pain in the ass. I would personally rather have two rush ends, and a good rush DT who were only ok or even below avg against the run and use LB's to cover that up. and not need super man DL just so the LB's can feel good.

[elsid13]

Just remember the SB linebacker had Greg Robinson as DC. It made a big difference, he seem to know when to pressure on QB in those couple of years. Coyer seem still trying to figure what work.

[-Slap-]

I wouldn't say the '97 stats are any more eye-popping than anything we've seen from Wilson or Gold, but I get your point. Nevertheless, Romo was about 235 at best, so he wasn't a big hoss by any stretch.

He could line up and blitz and he didn't need to hide behind a defensive linemen on the strongside.

We stacked Mobley behind a linemen on the weakside and he was sudden enough as a young player that he was able to run around tackles and make plays.

Unfortunately, Romo was washed up by 2000 and we kept him as a starter until 2001.

Far more unfortunate was our decision to begin playing three undersized linebackers the following year. Now we have LBs stacked behind linemen on both sides and the entire front seven was effectively neutered.

The point is that Shanny favored the same defensive philosophy then that he does now. The philosophy can work. I think our linebackers are good enough to get it done. I'm not sure that our DL as a whole fits what we need in this type of scheme, and I'm not convinced Coyer is the right guy to call the shots. Basically, I think there are much more pressing needs on defense than our LB crew, and I think those needs start up front.

Its not the same defensive philosophy. We have to cover both OLBs now and we have zero threat of a pass rush off the edge from that position.

The linebackers are undersized and overpaid and we'll always be a finesse defense with this scheme.

[Rascal]

Not sure. Gold signed a 5 year deal worth $25 million with a signing bonus of $8 million. $8 million over 5 years is a $1.6 million per season cap charge, two years of which are already done, which leaves $4.8 million yet to hit the cap. I don't know what his base salary for this year is scheduled to be, so I'm not sure what kind of impact cutting him would have on the cap.

2007 2300000.00
2008 2750000.00
2009 3400000.00
2010 4590000.00

It depends how much of his salary is guaranteed money, but even if we just assume there is nothing but signing bonus that is guaranteed we still can't take that cap hit. That move alone will leave us with less then 3 mil in cap space and that doesn't include Jake's cap hit or signing rookies.

Like it or not, it looks like we are stuck with him unless you are content going with the same D-line next year (outside of any draft help).

[Killericon]

I'm of the opinion that while I disagree with -Slap- that our linebackers are bad, I think that there is a problem, and I think it's the defensive line and the scheme. If only we had Monte Kiffin...

All 3 of our linebackers have shown the ability to make big plays on every drive. DJ did it in his rookie season, Al Wilson does it all the time, and Gold did it last season. What's changed in between and since those years? We've settled for Warren and Myers in the middle, for starters, but I think Larry Coyer is not doing a good enough job utilizing our talent.

Of course, -Slap- will disagree with me, and I understand where he's coming from(And am close to agreeing with him), but we've seen big production and plays out of this corps before, and if it's not the age bug that's got them, it has to be something else. I think our linebackers make our line look better than they are, and I think that if we had an above average DT to go with Warren(not necessarily a Pro Bowler) I think we'd begin to see plays and production out of the group again.

Myers is a joke. In my opinion, the fact that this guy is a starter is our Defense's biggest weakness.

[RunSilentRunDeep]

Guys like Lang and Ekuban aren't even supposed to be on the field as starters. They were brought in to be situational guys but when Pryce left, Brown went down and Corey "why training camp stories are a total waste of time" Jackson didn't pan out, they became starters and wore out by midseason.

Instead of signing some overpriced DL, let's make a play for Shaun Rogers. Between the suspension, injury and the fact he doesn't get along with the head coach, the Lions just might be willing to deal. The Broncos are plenty young enough to surrender a pick or two for a guy of that caliber. Rogers next to a healthy-toed Warren turns Dumervil into a 15 sack guy.

And if Brown's recovery goes well, then nobody would be able to run 4-feet on Denver much less four yards.

[Play2win]

I've alway thought Gold could star for us, and brings certain things to the table that are very, very hard to find in the league. But I am begining to think that it might be time for a change. For Gold to be successful (playmaker), we have to figure some things out on defense.

Its really just plain problem solving. BUT, its not getting figured out, and with Coyer, I am not sure it ever will get figured out. It might just simply time for a change.

We wear down to much in last part of the season. We are looking much more like a finesse defense than a real defense.

If we keep Coyer, I think we need to goto a more physical defense. The way teams are being construct now days, especially on offense, we need to be more smashmouth on the defensive side of the ball. This is especially true for the Linebackers.

We need to get this defense to be INTIMIDATING again. If we get a real SAM and used the Draft to BEEF-UP our whole defensive line, we could make this defense into a real powerhouse.

C'mon Shanny do to the Defense this year, what you did to the offense in last year's draft. :strong: :militia:

[usedupbraids]

Guys like Lang and Ekuban aren't even supposed to be on the field as starters. They were brought in to be situational guys but when Pryce left, Brown went down and Corey "why training camp stories are a total waste of time" Jackson didn't pan out, they became starters and wore out by midseason.

Instead of signing some overpriced DL, let's make a play for Shaun Rogers. Between the suspension, injury and the fact he doesn't get along with the head coach, the Lions just might be willing to deal. The Broncos are plenty young enough to surrender a pick or two for a guy of that caliber. Rogers next to a healthy-toed Warren turns Dumervil into a 15 sack guy.

And if Brown's recovery goes well, then nobody would be able to run 4-feet on Denver much less four yards.

i like this guy ;)

[-Slap-]

Guys like Lang and Ekuban aren't even supposed to be on the field as starters. They were brought in to be situational guys but when Pryce left, Brown went down and Corey "why training camp stories are a total waste of time" Jackson didn't pan out, they became starters and wore out by midseason.

Instead of signing some overpriced DL, let's make a play for Shaun Rogers. Between the suspension, injury and the fact he doesn't get along with the head coach, the Lions just might be willing to deal. The Broncos are plenty young enough to surrender a pick or two for a guy of that caliber. Rogers next to a healthy-toed Warren turns Dumervil into a 15 sack guy.

And if Brown's recovery goes well, then nobody would be able to run 4-feet on Denver much less four yards.

I love that idea. I would give up our second rounder for Shaun Rogers (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235240) in a heartbeat if he passed a physical for us.

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/9152/shaunrogersxbodydv5.jpg

He could have the same kind of impact Javon Walker had for us on offense this year.

[Clockwork Orange]

Is Rogers actually available or is this just wishful thinking?

[Play2win]

I love that idea. I would give up our second rounder for Shaun Rogers (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235240) in a heartbeat if he passed a physical for us.

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/9152/shaunrogersxbodydv5.jpg

He could have the same kind of impact Javon Walker had for us on offense this year.

Maybe he could be this year's JAVON. :)

Last year was all about offense, (hopefully this year will be all about defense.

[-Slap-]

Hell, give me a healthy Shaun Rogers and I'll carry Gold's pads at training camp next summer.

[Clockwork Orange]

How about Kris Jenkins? He might be available.

Panthers | Jenkins is a potential cap casualty
Sun, 7 Jan 2007 09:56:30 -0800

Pat Yasinskas, of the Charlotte Observer, reports Carolina Panthers DT Kris Jenkins is a potential salary-cap casualty this offseason. The team could also decide to restructure his contract to lower his salary cap number for the 2007 season.

He actually made it through 16 games last season.

[WABronco]

Rogers isn't going anywhere...Millen would have to be even more ****ing insane than he already is to even consider that.

Rogers was a maniac before he injured his knee. He pretty much single-handedly held Seattle to 3 FG's in the opener. He's a crucial piece to Marinelli's new Tampa 2, and he's slated to line up next to Redding next year at NT. He ain't goin' anywhere.

[RunSilentRunDeep]

Rogers isn't going anywhere...Millen would have to be even more ****ing insane than he already is to even consider that.

Rogers was a maniac before he injured his knee. He pretty much single-handedly held Seattle to 3 FG's in the opener. He's a crucial piece to Marinelli's new Tampa 2, and he's slated to line up next to Redding next year at NT. He ain't goin' anywhere.

Detroit would be stupid to let him go but Marinelli apparently doesn't have any tolerance for guys that don't immediately "buy-in." Rogers didn't. And Millen is that fricking stupid.

Also, they have a need at RB since KJ may not be ready. I'd send T. Bell and a nice pick or two to get it done.

[Killericon]

I've always been a fan of Shaun Rogers...If we could pull the trigger on that deal, look out.

[HEAV]

I'd rather see DJ play weakside and move Gold to strong. Let him cover TE's all day long. DJ was a playmaker at the weak side in college and his rookie year.

I'd also wouldn't mind trying to get Taylor out of Miami! But the cost may be too high.

Dolphins | Taylor will return to the team
Sun, 7 Jan 2007 19:02:25 -0800

ESPN.com reports Miami Dolphins DE Jason Taylor will return to the team in 2007. Taylor ended speculation that he might retire from football and said, "If [the new coach will] have me, I'll be back in Miami."

--------------

[azbroncfan]

Rogers isn't going anywhere...Millen would have to be even more ****ing insane than he already is to even consider that.

Rogers was a maniac before he injured his knee. He pretty much single-handedly held Seattle to 3 FG's in the opener. He's a crucial piece to Marinelli's new Tampa 2, and he's slated to line up next to Redding next year at NT. He ain't goin' anywhere.


Didn't he sign a good size contract a year or two ago?

[16-JakE-16]

out of those, Justin Smith. But I have no doubt that he isn't nearly good enough to raise our DLINE to above average

[BroncoInferno]

there'll be a dropoff, but only in so much as their DL are now worse, not by any geometric factor because now their LB's are exposed weenies. and therein lies the difference, they want good DL because it makes their defense good, we NEED good two way DL(and one more of em cause we're in a 4-3) just to make our LB's justified.

See, your problem is you seem to think 3-4 is some kind of quick fix where you can treat the DL as essentially an afterthought. That simply isn't true. If it were, why would NE spend valuable resources on the position? All three of their current DL starters were first round picks, and Seymour is one of the highest paid DL in the league. Look at SD. Jamal Williams is considered one of the top lineman in the game, they spent a first rounder on the very solid Luis Castillo, and the other end Igor Olshansky is solid and was a high pick as well. You seem to be suggesting that bigger LB in a 3-4 are able to operate well and independent of having a quality DL in front of them, but that simply isn't the case. While the roles of DL certainly vary from scheme to scheme, you won't find ANY scheme where the DL is not crucial to success. There is no shortcut where you can invest a lot in one area and then divert resources away from the other.

[BroncoBuff]

Responses to my homeboy WABronco:

Hamza looks small? He's probably the biggest safety we've got. ...
You're right, he just looks small - or at least thin - to me.


You can get a solid safety prospect anywhere in the draft. Anthony Smith went in the 3rd. You just have to have patience.
To me, safety is a thinking-man, veteran's position. Rookies don't have the experience. For example, this year's #1 rookie S Michael Huff had SERIOUS growing pains. He played all year, but had ZERO ints, ZERO sacks, ZERO ff, ZERO fum rec ... and just ONE pass defensed. Just ONE PASS DEFENSED! For a 16-game starter, that sucks. My point is, safety is a veteran's position.


We have two soild young prospects already in-house, and one young vet who's a premier coverage safety in this league.
I'm not sure Abdullah is all that "solid," but I'll grant you that point. Who's the other? And I am DYING to hear who your "premier coverage safety" is ... I'm guessing you mean Sam Brandon ... but remember Shanny tried to trade him for a second day pick last year - no takers.


Grant isn't some spectacular playmaker, either. He's an athletic vet who's primarily a coverage safety (he's a liability against the run).
Well, he has more solo tackles in less games than Kenoy (see above), and Kenoy was a run-support SS (Kenoy has a great deal more assists, though). I don't watch Grant play that closely, but the FA capsule I read said Deon Grant was smart, a hitter, and has a nose for the ball.

I mean, he's a nice vet, but what's the point in spending on a guy who's a minimal upgrade at best?
I disagree strongly. Look at his numbers above. He makes plays. He's an upgrade over Lynch (0 int) and an upgrade over Nick Ferguson imo. If we sign him, he will immediately be the best safety on the team.

_______


Having said all that, though .... I'm kinda getting off Grant a bit now. If Ferguson and Brandon are both set to be 100% next year, I'm wetting myself over Adaleis Thomas ... or even Freeney or even (gad) Trevor Pryce. He's shown his value, and shown his sense of personal loyalty by showing up for D-Will's memorial. I wouldn't cry if Adaleis and Freeney are out of reach, we brought Trevor home affordably.

BTW ... with Slap's suggestion of the Ravens' FB ... it strikes me we are collectively suggesting that the Broncos sign Two UFAs from the Ravens - a RB and a DE/LB.

Hmmmmm...... Think about it, fellow Billick haters.

[phibacka31]

If you could det Thomas that would be sick, but what's the chances of that. I would like Daniel Graham. A big boy in the middle. oh and throw in a powerback. I want someone that can make me feel sure for a TD when we get to inside the 5 yard line:thumbs:

[yavoon]

See, your problem is you seem to think 3-4 is some kind of quick fix where you can treat the DL as essentially an afterthought. That simply isn't true. If it were, why would NE spend valuable resources on the position? All three of their current DL starters were first round picks, and Seymour is one of the highest paid DL in the league. Look at SD. Jamal Williams is considered one of the top lineman in the game, they spent a first rounder on the very solid Luis Castillo, and the other end Igor Olshansky is solid and was a high pick as well. You seem to be suggesting that bigger LB in a 3-4 are able to operate well and independent of having a quality DL in front of them, but that simply isn't the case. While the roles of DL certainly vary from scheme to scheme, you won't find ANY scheme where the DL is not crucial to success. There is no shortcut where you can invest a lot in one area and then divert resources away from the other.

1)ur first sentence is factually wrong, only made more particularly incorrect because me talking about the 3-4 is in OTHER threads.

2)ur second sentence is also factually wrong, and a gross exageration of anything I could have possibly said in this thread and a gross exageration and lie on my intent.

given such horrible first two sentences what do u think the chances are that ur post isnt full of ****?

[BroncoBuff]

I dunno .... I think we're loaded at TE, four deep and young. Though I do wonder about Jackson's blocking and Mustard's catching. Are either any good at those?

Adelius Thomas would be better than Freeney imo ... and prolly a bit cheaper. I hope the Ravens are hog-tied with Trevor's contract and cannot keep Thomas. Or else they can cut Trevor and we bring him back a bit more affordably. He's a SB legacy, and he proved (to me at least) his personal character by attending D-Will's memorial.

Thomas or Pryce ... plus Deon Grant. Re-sign Myers and Chukwurah ... check to see if Brodrick Bunkley's head is screwed on straight, and if it is, offer Tatum and a draft pick (3rd? 2nd?) to the Eagles.

Then, provided Lepsis is healthy and Kuper can replace Carlisle if necessary, and provided we can find a decent backup QB, I say all we really need in the draft is a solid RB. We have the 20th pick in the 1st round, plus 2d, 3d, 4th, etc.. and the Skins' 3d, 4th too. Shanny can package all that to get up to #10 maybe ... we can get a top-flite rookie RB from there.

[BroncoInferno]

1)ur first sentence is factually wrong, only made more particularly incorrect because me talking about the 3-4 is in OTHER threads.

Well, you were arguing against the current scheme, and you've made clear what scheme you prefer, so it's entirely relevant.

2)ur second sentence is also factually wrong, and a gross exageration of anything I could have possibly said in this thread and a gross exageration and lie on my intent.

What is factually wrong in my second sentence? I relaize you make arguments just for the sake of being contrarian, but you might want to review some of your posts and arguments you've made.

given such horrible first two sentences what do u think the chances are that ur post isnt full of ****?

About 0. The post was totally relevant given the context of the discussion.

[sirhcyennek81]

Justin Smith, Eric Steinbach, Ken Hamlin. That would be alot of $ tho.

:Broncos:

[yavoon]

Well, you were arguing against the current scheme, and you've made clear what scheme you prefer, so it's entirely relevant.



What is factually wrong in my second sentence? I relaize you make arguments just for the sake of being contrarian, but you might want to review some of your posts and arguments you've made.



About 0. The post was totally relevant given the context of the discussion.

characterizing my opinion of the DL as not being important is a complete lie, misrepresentation and horrible exageration of anything I could have said.

and I can't argue for the 3-4 24/7, in this thread I'm tabling that and talking about 4-3s. notice how I said "I would rather have rush ends and a penetrating DT and make it up w/ our linebackers" I am pretty obviously here staying in the 4-3 scheme.

so again, actually talk about facts instead of recharacterizing my arguments in charactures and stupidities in order to make urself feel better.

[BroncoInferno]

characterizing my opinion of the DL as not being important is a complete lie, misrepresentation and horrible exageration of anything I could have said.

and I can't argue for the 3-4 24/7, in this thread I'm tabling that and talking about 4-3s. notice how I said "I would rather have rush ends and a penetrating DT and make it up w/ our linebackers" I am pretty obviously here staying in the 4-3 scheme.

so again, actually talk about facts instead of recharacterizing my arguments in charactures and stupidities in order to make urself feel better.

Here is what you said about the linebackers:


our entire cap would be in our front 7. thats the screwed up thing, these linebackers need lineman to cover for their ass in the run game so they look good flying to the ball. then they need those same lineman to rush the passer well because they can't blitz.

The implication here is that you can't invest valuable resources into both levels of the front seven. I gave you examples that run counter to that thinking. Is that not what you meant? Can you clarify what you did mean, if not that?

[yavoon]

Here is what you said about the linebackers:



The implication here is that you can't invest valuable resources into both levels of the front seven. I gave you examples that run counter to that thinking. Is that not what you meant? Can you clarify what you did mean, if not that?

no that is not the thinking, that is a stupid and wrongheaded interpretation of what I've said.

what I said is u shouldn't HAMSTRING the requirements on ur DL w/ expensive midget linebackers. obviously u have zero ability to understand even the most rudimentary thrusts of my point. please re-read my posts.

[BroncoInferno]

no that is not the thinking, that is a stupid and wrongheaded interpretation of what I've said.

what I said is u shouldn't HAMSTRING the requirements on ur DL w/ expensive midget linebackers.

Why not? NE and SD have built their DLs as a compliment to their expensive big LBs.

obviously u have zero ability to understand even the most rudimentary thrusts of my point. please re-read my posts.

It would be easier to follow your arguments if you didn't alter them from thread to thread depending on what line of thinking allows you to maximize your contrarian ideal.

[yavoon]

Why not? NE and SD have built their DLs as a compliment to their expensive big LBs.



It would be easier to follow your arguments if you didn't alter them from thread to thread depending on what line of thinking allows you to maximize your contrarian ideal.

what? I would like a 3-4 defense and if not that I would like a 4-3 built off rush linemen. I dont know if thats so incredibly weird an opinion to have. is wanting a 3-4 mean I have to 24/7 talk about it? that I can't talk in other contexts?

look its not my fault u lack even a basic understanding of my argument, it really isnt. I've made ample posts in this thread detailing my view. please re-read my posts.