Be Careful What You Wish For, You May Receive it*

[-Slap-]

Can you imagine the unbridled joy on this website if the Broncos had drafted Broderick Bustley and traded for salary cap Godzilla John Abraham during the off season?

It would have only cost us Jay Cutler and set the franchise back five years.


*With apologies to W.W. Jacobs (http://www.room217.net/literature/monkeyspawtext.htm)

[watermock]

Fresh meat is always better than day old bread.

[-Slap-]

That meat is riddled with E. coli, but step right up and eat your fill. Some team does it every year.

[Killericon]

It's impossible to say Abraham would have been injured if he were a Bronco; just as it is impossible to say that Bunkley would have not succeeded in Denver(I'm not convinced Bunkley's a bust just yet. A ****ty rookie outing is no proof that an entire career is doomed. Ask Elway). I was in the VD camp, personally. I don't think that Cutler was seriously on anyone's radar around here.

Is the view good from your Ivory Tower, Slap? Tell us, who were you rooting for us to draft on draft weekend? Was it Cutler?

Is there a purpose to this thread?

[watermock]

No Slappy, I'm talking about taking fresh players instead of overpriced free agents, especially on the DL. The point was you take one or two true skill players. I'm not going to comment further.

Fresh meat is fresh meat...rotten meat is overpriced free agents.

[Odysseus]

The point of the thread is that there are a lot of stupid fans during the off season who should be "careful what they wish for." There are some amazingly smart people on this board who prove time and time again how mortal they are. This is very similar to life in the NFL.

Right now most of the threads that are ebulliant are enjoying Cultler...wait. Cutlermania. You have to realize that a lot of the anti plummer crowd took a ton of heat and this is their victory dance.

It's all good. Let them dance. It's a barrell and what comes around comes around.

The one thread that I'm not going to like is the first time Cutler does poorly and then all the Plummerites will start their jihad as if bringing back a guy who LOST his starting position mattered.

It's part of the price of free speech.

[-Slap-]

It's impossible to say Abraham would have been injured if he were a Bronco; just as it is impossible to say that Bunkley would have not succeeded in Denver(I'm not convinced Bunkley's a bust just yet. A ****ty rookie outing is no proof that an entire career is doomed. Ask Elway). I was in the VD camp, personally. I don't think that Cutler was seriously on anyone's radar around here.

Is the view good from your Ivory Tower, Slap? Tell us, who were you rooting for us to draft on draft weekend? Was it Cutler?

Is there a purpose to this thread?

I'm in an ivory tower because I trust our front office to make the correct personnel decisions?

Go to hell, you little bastard. If you don't like the thread, don't post on it.

[-Slap-]

No, Tiger, the point is all our problems on this team will be solved if we just totally commit to the defensive line.

That's what we keep hearing, right?

[watermock]

SoCal said that it was a strong DL Class...I don't know..haven't looked at it, but I agree Slap, we need some DL help. We need 3 DL picks and maybe we can pick up Archuletta if he's let go.

[holygreen]

donks need to daft a new QB

[watermock]

Actually, KC does. Nice avatar change.

[-Slap-]

The point of the thread is that there are a lot of stupid fans during the off season who should be "careful what they wish for." There are some amazingly smart people on this board who prove time and time again how mortal they are. This is very similar to life in the NFL.

Right now most of the threads that are ebulliant are enjoying Cultler...wait. Cutlermania. You have to realize that a lot of the anti plummer crowd took a ton of heat and this is their victory dance.

It's all good. Let them dance. It's a barrell and what comes around comes around.

Creating a straw man is the most common refuge for anyone who's gotten their asses kicked sideways in an argument. For example, the Jake apologists. Thus, we have the incredibly stupid comment, "Cutler's not going to solve all the problems on the team."

This is repeated like some kind of demented loser mantra around here. Forget that nobody ever suggested replacing the quarterback would solve all the problems on the team. Nobody ever made that claim because it such a stupid notion.

Suppose the battery dies on your car. Now, you know the brake pads are squeaking, too, and the passenger window sticks, but all you can afford to replace this week is the battery.

You would do that, right?

After the new battery is in the car, you're not going to expect the brakes to work any better. The passenger window is still going to stick. You know those things have to be fixed, too, but what good does it do to yell at the mechanic, if you know you can't afford the parts?

Just so you can make yourself feel better because deep down you knew you bought a cheap battery the last time around?

Why not just enjoy the peace of mind you have with the consistent, reliable, highly rated battery you just installed?

[Odysseus]

No, Tiger, the point is all our problems on this team will be solved if we just totally commit to the defensive line.

That's what we keep hearing, right?

The defense first guys are revisionists every bit as much as the Cutler Cultists are.

Every year except this past year the Broncos have had a nearly new Defensive line. You can even go back to IHOP to see how long the Broncos have been screwing up getting the Defensive line fixed. The DLINE heads are right. We need a DLINE and badly. Why? Defense wins championships. Teams are able to pass on us at will because we have no front four. We have a great front eight but I digress.

The Cutler move was a single pen stroke to solve multiple frustrations. One defensive tackle isn't going to solve the Broncos DT issues even the right one. We've proven that year after year. One quarterback, especially in this case, was the right move.

We can now go back to our regularly scheduled season's end rant about having a suck defense regardless of the stats. :thanku:

[Odysseus]

Hey! Great minds post alike!

[holygreen]

Actually, KC does. Nice avatar change.
KC needs everything. We're stuck in the hole for a while.

[-Slap-]

The defense first guys are revisionists every bit as much as the Cutler Cultists are.

Every year except this past year the Broncos have had a nearly new Defensive line. You can even go back to IHOP to see how long the Broncos have been screwing up getting the Defensive line fixed. The DLINE heads are right. We need a DLINE and badly. Why? Defense wins championships. Teams are able to pass on us at will because we have no front four. We have a great front eight but I digress.

The Cutler move was a single pen stroke to solve multiple frustrations. One defensive tackle isn't going to solve the Broncos DT issues even the right one. We've proven that year after year. One quarterback, especially in this case, was the right move.

We can now go back to our regularly scheduled season's end rant about having a suck defense regardless of the stats. :thanku:

Everybody in the NFL wants a dominant defensive line. How many have one? How many have gone broke trying to build one?

The Rams spent three first round picks on DTs in a three year span and they had one of the worst defenses in football.

I love when people point to the Bears and ask why we can't do what they've done. Such a model franchise there in Chicago. What was this, their third winning season in the last 11 years?

[Taco John]

Creating a straw man is the most common refuge for anyone who's gotten their asses kicked sideways in an argument. For example, the Jake apologists. Thus, we have the incredibly stupid comment, "Cutler's not going to solve all the problems on the team."

This is repeated like some kind of demented loser mantra around here. Forget that nobody ever suggested replacing the quarterback would solve all the problems on the team. Nobody ever made that claim because it such a stupid notion.

Suppose the battery dies on your car. Now, you know the brake pads are squeaking, too, and the passenger window sticks, but all you can afford to replace this week is the battery.

You would do that, right?

After the new battery is in the car, you're not going to expect the brakes to work any better. The passenger window is still going to stick. You know those things have to be fixed, too, but what good does it do to yell at the mechanic, if you know you can't afford the parts?

Just so you can make yourself feel better because deep down you knew you bought a cheap battery the last time around?

Why not just enjoy the peace of mind you have with the consistent, reliable, highly rated battery you just installed?



This is such a great analogy. :thumbs:

[holygreen]

I love when people point to the Bears and ask why we can't do what they've done. Such a model franchise there in Chicago. What was this, their third winning season in the last 11 years?

lmao

[Odysseus]

Everybody in the NFL wants a dominant defensive line. How many have one? How many have gone broke trying to build one?

The Rams spent three first round picks on DTs in a three year span and they had one of the worst defenses in football.

I love when people point to the Bears and ask why we can't do what they've done. Such a model franchise there in Chicago. What was this, their third winning season in the last 11 years?

Everybody has a different theory on how to get this "dominant" line. Greg Robinson was completely different than our guy Coyer. Big guys ain't cheap and every agent knows this. It's amazing nobody has ever "discovered" a star DT pushing grocery carts.

The Rams haven't have a dominant defense since....I ain't looking it up. I cannot think of a defensive line whose actually one I want to emulate beside the Bears. Whose that newbie coach again? What magic trick did he learn?

You can't blame me dude. I love the Bears because I lived in Chicago for awhile. I suffered through a lot of losing season but I was at Superbowl when the Payton was doing the Superbowl shuffle and that will remain one of the highlights of my football experiences. I got a chance to meet a lot of the guys. My most memorable encounter was meeting Singletary. Long story short the guy is real scary but in your terms...a midget.

[watermock]

And I was at the game where the Fridge fumbled that could of put the Bears up 21-0. that was priceless to see Ditka have an anurism.

[Barry Ramey]

Probably more mistakes have been made in regards to drafting DL than anything else, which happens to be a need area of the Broncos.

[gunns]

No, Tiger, the point is all our problems on this team will be solved if we just totally commit to the defensive line.

That's what we keep hearing, right?


DL, #1 priority.

But can we PLEASE get a safety, a really good safety? I STILL have that "Reed/Lelie" hangover.

[Odysseus]

DL, #1 priority.

But can we PLEASE get a safety, a really good safety? I STILL have that "Reed/Lelie" hangover.

The Broncos like the Safeties they have. If they do it will be a guy with a wooden leg whom they want to develop on the practice squad. It might even be a 100 pound cornerback that they convert to Safety. Poor #22!

[footstepsfrom#27]

It's an accepted axion that you win in the trenches, yet in the Shanahan era we've drafted only one defensive lineman in the first round, and we tend to let those that succeed leave via free agency. We're near the bottom of the league in sacks. Plugging other team's castoffs into the line has at times been successful and at other times it hasn't. I'd like a lineman in the first round this time around if there's one there that makes sense.

Having said all that, you never pass on a franchise QB if one's available and you don't already have that on your team. Cutler was a great move by Shanny.

[Willynowei]

No, Tiger, the point is all our problems on this team will be solved if we just totally commit to the defensive line.

That's what we keep hearing, right?

You can think whatever you want slap i never opposed cutler being drafted but I don't care who the hell is in our front office you never know for sure your gamble pays off.

In this situation one gamble did, and hindsight is 20-20.

But no need to get hypothetical in an attempt to some how feel vindicated for calling for Plummers head. Take a look at Plummer this year, he was never Elway or Cutler but you going to tell me he didn't improve every season for three years untill this years collapse? He didn't miss wide open receivers that he normally wouldn't? In other words could it have been more obvious our QB lost it when the younger kid came in?

Lets say we drafted Bunkley and Hali with those picks like some were hoping here. What if the leaders on this team could've kept Bunkley from stupid things like getting lunch for the team wtf?

What if we had Hali, Bunkley and Durmeveil rushing on third downs? And we went from bottom of the league to above average? How good would our Defense be?

See? I can play the what if game too Slap. But hey, you just keep feeling good about yourself because some fans here are QB loyalists.

Thats okay, we'll be on the same side soon. Cutler will have his slumps one day, and when everyone starts torching him on these boards, I'll be supporting our QB like i always do. Because the golden rule to me with QBs is you need stability. Of course you'll just keep supporting Cutler b/c of the lovefest with his arm. ;)

[skpac1001]

I think there is a football god rule that you cant have a dominate defensive line and a great qb at the same time. Jacksonville, Bears, Panthers, past Buc teams. So we might as well get used to it.

[Atlas]

Can you imagine the unbridled joy on this website if the Broncos had drafted Broderick Bustley and traded for salary cap Godzilla John Abraham during the off season?

It would have only cost us Jay Cutler and set the franchise back five years.


*With apologies to W.W. Jacobs (http://www.room217.net/literature/monkeyspawtext.htm)


or trading up to get Vernon Davis.

The fact is there are probowl players at every pick in the top 3 rounds. All you have to do is find them.

[shakenbake]

The only one I remember wanting a QB named Cutler was Hercules Rockefeller. It would be funny to hear who everyone wanted now that the regular season is almost over. Personally, I wanted VY! He has done ok for a rookie. Either way its too early to deterime how sucsessful this past years draft class will be. Some guys haven't even seen the field yet. Look at D-williams, last year he looked to be one of the top rookies of his class. This year many of us (me inculded) are ready to run him out of mile high. Realisticly he probably needs another year.

[DBroncos4life]

I would have kept both first round picks and drafted Mathias Kiwanuka and Laurence Maroney.

[Atlas]

I didn't think either Leinart or Young were going to be great QBs I really didn't know who the hell Cutler was besides his jaw dropping combine workout. Before the draft I settled in on that Denver should draft Ngata. A lot of people here said he was lazy but I liked his size and the way he pushed the pocket. I'm not sure but I think he has done a solid job for the Ravens this year.... Anyway... Glad we got cutler..

[Paladin]

I did not believe that the Broncos had a snow ball's chance in h3ll of getting Cutler. Most "experts", even those around here, had him goimg much earlier than where Denver was going to be drafting. Further, I had read reports here and elsewhere that efforts to trade up were rebuffed. Therefore, like a number of people around here, I was hoping for a DE or a DT at number 1. At that time, it was widely proclaimed that the DL was the priority, and not a word was actually said about Cutler other than a few wistful dreams of getting one of the three QBs.

Bunkley was an early favorite, and then there was a lot of comparisons between Hali and a couple of other dudes, but most thought that the WR was going to be the pick.....

When Cutler was drafted, my thought was that it was time that the Broncos got a shot at a "Francise QB", and draft one. Never did that before. It felt strange as I heard the announcement, but it also felt good.

I do not regret the choice. And I do not resent the "change" of QBs because Shanahan thought it was time to do so. Plummer had his limitations, but there had been the possibility that he'd pull out of his slump and the Broncos would continue to win with him. For whatever reason, it didn't work out, and so Shanahan made the chance. Okay by me because I support the Team and I want the team to win, even if by lucky strokes.

What I want to see is that the Broncos beat the 9ers and get to the playoffs. On their own. Earning it the old fashioned way. I do not believe that their chances are extremely high they will go more than one win, but I am open to hope and realism at the same time. We shall see.

But having Cutler here, now, is a good feeling, but he will be better next year. I'm okay with that....

[Tredici]

But having Cutler here, now, is a good feeling, but he will be better next year. I'm okay with that....

ditto

[Tredici]

I agree we need help at safety but it seems people easily forget what Nick Ferguson was doing in the position. His injury did much to disrupt the defense and there wasn't another guy sitting on the bench who could play safety/third corner as effectively.

[Atlas]

I agree we need help at safety but it seems people easily forget what Nick Ferguson was doing in the position. His injury did much to disrupt the defense and there wasn't another guy sitting on the bench who could play safety/third corner as effectively.

Not only Did denver lose Fergy but they also lost Branden for they year.

[Arkansas Bronco]

In truth I thought all 3 QB's should have been gone by pick 7. I seen no way that we would have had a shot at any of them. We got very lucky and I am extremly happy.

[FADERPROOF]

I was just hoping than Vernon Davis fell to us, after he was taken then I didnt have much of an opinion on who we took.

[Bronx33]

Saddam wished for a new scarf....

[brncs_fan]

My favorite memory of the draft was everyone screeming when we took Scheff when Pope was still on the board.

I guess this is why I generally don't have too much of an opinion on draft matters.

[Taco John]

I did not believe that the Broncos had a snow ball's chance in h3ll of getting Cutler. Most "experts", even those around here, had him goimg much earlier than where Denver was going to be drafting.


We had a "community mock draft" like we sometimes do around here before the draft. Well, I'll let you see the results for yourself:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=41454

[kappys]

I love when people point to the Bears and ask why we can't do what they've done. Such a model franchise there in Chicago. What was this, their third winning season in the last 11 years?


The Bears smart move was trading for O Gunn - a young proven and healthy pass rusher. Well, he was healthy at any rate.

Supposing we happened to draft a Talent like Tommie Harris, that would have immediately propelled our D-line from poor to at least average. Sometimes teams just get lucky.

I don't think anyone would rightly choose a good D-lineman over Cutler. QB is the most important position on the field, and an upgrade with Cutler makes this team 10 times more lethal. However, upgrading the D-line should be an offseason goal IMO if the right players are available.

[orinjkrush]

To continue Slap's interesting analogy...the past two years we have drafted and traded some pretty good batteries/ tires/ window motors. Previously, the front office had a number of really suspect years of trading/ drafting. Faith in the front office is a function of success?

I wonder why it seems better the last two years?

[yavoon]

I liked vernon davis, not sure if I thought of it as an either/or thing because certainly I didnt like plummer.

and yah dlines are expensive, just ask the eagles, now thats a team committed to a dline.

[yavoon]

The Bears smart move was trading for O Gunn - a young proven and healthy pass rusher. Well, he was healthy at any rate.

Supposing we happened to draft a Talent like Tommie Harris, that would have immediately propelled our D-line from poor to at least average. Sometimes teams just get lucky.

I don't think anyone would rightly choose a good D-lineman over Cutler. QB is the most important position on the field, and an upgrade with Cutler makes this team 10 times more lethal. However, upgrading the D-line should be an offseason goal IMO if the right players are available.

a lot of ppl said ogun was only good because taylor was so strong on the other side. infact ppl said that about berry and hayward for the broncos too.

[-Slap-]

The only one I remember wanting a QB named Cutler was Hercules Rockefeller. It would be funny to hear who everyone wanted now that the regular season is almost over. Personally, I wanted VY! He has done ok for a rookie. Either way its too early to deterime how sucsessful this past years draft class will be. Some guys haven't even seen the field yet. Look at D-williams, last year he looked to be one of the top rookies of his class. This year many of us (me inculded) are ready to run him out of mile high. Realisticly he probably needs another year.

This thread is not about wanting Jay Cutler (or any quarterback) in round one last year. Its about how difficult it is to find quality defensive linemen and why its not a bad thing that we don't reach for them all the time.

I wanted to draft Tamba Hali (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/412000) in round one. I can pull many posts supporting that. SoCal and Clockwork can confirm this as well. In fact, I argued with several people that he deserved a first round grade. I believe his play this season has justified my faith in him.

I also would have loved to land Broderick Bunkley in round one. The workout warrior label I tagged him with isn't entirely fair. He was very productive on the field last season at FSU.

This year, he can't find the field with a compass. Bunkley saw limited action four of the first five weeks (http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=7763). He played a few snaps in week eight and he's been inactive every week since then.

So far, dismissing Bunkley as another workout warrior, like Mike Mamula (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=763), would be an insult to Mamula. At least MM registered six sacks as a rookie and 31.5 in a star-crossed five year career.

More troubling is Bunkley's apparent lack of motivation. He missed a team flight to Indy and he hasn't proven himself to be very coachable.

I know people are going to bring up Trevor Pryce's rookie season, but the light clicked on for him in the last month of the season and we saw flashes of the player he would become. Bunkley has basically been written off this year, by a team that's going to the post season.

[-Slap-]

We had a "community mock draft" like we sometimes do around here before the draft. Well, I'll let you see the results for yourself:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=41454

:rofl:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1088726&postcount=269

All these people around here who've been lying through their teeth about Taco "jumping on the Cutler bandwagon" just got
F A C E D !

ROFL!

[-Slap-]

The Bears smart move was trading for O Gunn - a young proven and healthy pass rusher. Well, he was healthy at any rate.

Supposing we happened to draft a Talent like Tommie Harris, that would have immediately propelled our D-line from poor to at least average. Sometimes teams just get lucky.

I don't think anyone would rightly choose a good D-lineman over Cutler. QB is the most important position on the field, and an upgrade with Cutler makes this team 10 times more lethal. However, upgrading the D-line should be an offseason goal IMO if the right players are available.

I was begging Shanahan to trade up for Tommie Harris.

My wish list that year was Harris, Stephen Jackson and DJ Williams, in that order.

[-Slap-]

a lot of ppl said ogun was only good because taylor was so strong on the other side. infact ppl said that about berry and hayward for the broncos too.

I remember those arguments. People tried to say workmanlike Marty Booker was more valuable than a guy who racked up 16 sacks one season.

I don't care if you have Deacon Jones lined opposite you, 16 sacks indicates extreme talent.

[Atlas]

Saddam wished for a new scarf....

He did get a new tie